Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. And just to let everyone know, we're recording this a little bit earlier than we might usually do. Our podcast producer, Matt, is flying to the US s to visit his family in a few hours time. So we're under pain of death to get the ah the last elements of this week's podcast to him so he can get it all cut together before he um embarks on his multi-leg, very, very long journey to Monterey. um But yeah, i Will, what have been up to?
Speaker: Oh, not too much. Welcome back. First of all, James, back in Australia as well. I can hear your accent returning. Yes. Yeah. We landed Friday just before lunchtime. I went on a mission to not be defeated by jet lag. um Most people say that when you travel this way around the planet, rather than the other way, jet lag tends to be a bit worse. And as I was saying to you yesterday, when we met up at the studio to do some other recording. i was like, I have, I've defeated jet lag this time. I did a couple of gym visits. We had events at the weekend. was like, I have nailed it this time without any drama. And then about quarter to six yesterday evening, I decided to have a little nap and woke up at half nine um and ruined everything for a couple more days. But um yeah, good to be back. And you know, the the weather hasn't been nearly as bad as i was expecting after our lengthy heat wave in the UK. So Australia has been fairly kind to us on our return.
Speaker: Excellent. And um right after we hit a stop on this recording, we're going to head over to check out the beer championship judging as well. First ever beer championships, media partners, and we're going to have a story out this week about how people are finding it. And yeah, looking forward to seeing it all um unfold. I almost said unravel. Very much hope it doesn't unravel. Well, you never know. It's the first time they've done it. But yeah, heading over. I'm i'm sure you know on the first day of judging, the first morning judging, what they really want is me and you rocking in with ah cameras and microphones and pestering them just to to help things run a bit more smoothly. But you know that's what that's what media partners do, I guess. Yeah, it'd be it be interest interesting to see how they're going and it' something they've pulled together, even though, as we've discussed in the past, the original idea sort of it was festering or being conceived, I should say, a few years ago. um It's all been pulled together fairly quickly. So we'll see how everything's going when we get over to williamstown uh later this morning um but i guess looking back to the the weekend just gone um i guess one of the things that helped me get through the the weekend um without falling asleep too early was we had the inaugural nz ipa challenge australia edition uh rocky ridge in brunswick um for those that don't know it it's been running for 11 years in queenstown at smith's craft beer bar we were contacted by matt from clayton hops a few months ago saying they they were keen to
Speaker: bring the idea over to Australia and we helped them pull it together. And again, it was something else that was pulled together fairly quickly, but the quality of the breweries that took part, the the quality of the beers um was amazing. And the attendance was great. i think it's one of the biggest weekends I've ever had at Rocky Ridge Brunswick since they took took over the venue. You were there hosting a panel on the Friday night. It was busy. I was there for a blind tasting on the Saturday. um which seemed to go well enough that we may well have earned ourselves a trip to Queenstown next June to run a block one of our blind tastings at the ah the original NZ z IPA challenge. But um yeah, don't know what it was like you on the Friday night doing the panel, but it seemed like a really, really good buzz and one of those things that reminds you that people are still looking for good events and and cool things to get get into
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it wasn't just busy on Friday night. The place was booked out. There were no tables available. Like it was a, it was really humming with a great to see a lot of industry there, but a lot of people just came to check out the event as well.
Speaker: lot of people I think had been there since the sort of early late afternoon when Rocky Ridge opened. So yeah, really a really good attendance from both industry and people who wanted to check out these NZ IPAs. Congrats to Rocky Ridge, the team Rocky Ridge pulling it together. And also Clayton Hopps who have been really pivotal and sort of wanting to Unsurprisingly, they want to spread the words of word of Ed Hopps.
Speaker: Yeah, and Rocky Ridge's beer won both the ah the official sort of brewer's ah blind tasting vote and also the consumer one, um which made me think maybe maybe they'd spent the the previous few days going around with a pipette of sort of beer faults to all the other entered kegs. But and having tasted their Rhapsody in green, it was a banging, just a beautiful, popping, clean, um clear IPA. so um you know, I think they're a bit like, hope hope you don't think there's been some sort of hometown cheating, but it was an absolutely cracking IPA. So I think the plan is it will run again, you know, become an annual thing, both in Australia and in New Zealand. um And yeah, onwards and upwards, I guess.
Speaker: Well, I mean, it's possible that the Rocky Ridge had the advantage of having maybe kegged it that morning or very recently. So they had a freshness at play, which is one of the big stories we've had this week where I caught up with the team at Reckless to talk about Not a brand new concept. They're they're releasing a same same-day IPA. I guess the point of difference for Reckless is they're based in Bathurst and they're going to get kegs.
Speaker: The beer will be kegged at midnight on IPA day or 12.01 and we'll make it to all these bars across the east coast of Australia by 6pm. So that includes Queensland, which like Bathurst to Brisbane, we're talking about a lazy...
Speaker: 1200 kilometers, this has to travel. So it's a, it's pretty impressive why they've done it. It's a really fun campaign as well. The beer aside, you know, you'll be able to track the kegs as it goes. They want to really make sure the reps are like posting it all the fun landmarks on the way as ah as they make their way. across the country and I just really love their enthusiasm and excitement around doing something like this you know when I got into craft beer Tusk Day was one of those like monumental events and and that's back now um it used to make it ah the beer made it over to the east coast after a few days but would still be like sort of off the truck and cold cold shipped and then like
Speaker: put into bars in Melbourne straight away. So, so it's sort of good. I don't know. It's sort of like, everything's old is new again, in a way I just love, like I was thinking about while putting it together, how there'd be so many people who are into craft beer now who probably wouldn't know about what Tusk Day was or the sort of grab a car was I know in WA we, so they've brought it back and we've always had readers be like, when is this happening again? But on the East coast and in other parts of Australia, I are just nice to see, um, how,
Speaker: Yeah, but people are trying to sort of rethink these things, rework them, create something new as well, and just be sort of unashamedly fun and joyous about beer. Well, exactly. yeah i guess we've been around long enough now that we can sort of rehash some of these concepts with ah with a fresh skin and and find a new audience for them. and And I guess for others who've been around as long as we have, it's you know it's just it it's fun to sometimes to revisit some of these things and you know and be taken down memory lane with some fond reminiscences. um I guess that's ah we we maybe sort of run out of IPA segues for this week, but... um Other stuff that we've had on the website this week, Mogwai Labs, the ah liquid yeast producers in Wollongong, they've announced they've launched this new testing service for um for brewers. it's this
Speaker: Elements of it are new. it's not you know It's not a new service, but elements of it are new. We'll include something in the show notes there. and The idea is that for any brewer, big or small, they can send their send samples in to get them tested for spoilage and what have you. So if you are a brewer um of any scale looking to know if your yeast health is as it should be, um then have a look in the the show notes or just jump on Crafty Pint and have a look in our industry news. um And I guess back from sort of the industry side of things to sort of the consumer side of things, um that we are partnering with Blobfish Festival once again when that rolls around on August i was going to say Mogwai Labs might discover a few things that you probably actually want in some of these beers pouring at Blobfish.
Speaker: ah Look at you, Will. You are you are the segue king this week. um Yes, so Blobfish for the uninitiated, which I'm sure isn't too many people who are ardent listeners or viewers of the Crowd2Hunt podcast. It's festival we's been running for a number of years, can conceived by Hop Nation, all about celebrating wild, sour, funky, barrel-aged fruited beers. um It's back at Hopscray. I'm trying to sort of put Hop Nation's phrase home all into one word.
Speaker: Back at their home over three sessions on August the 29th. We've got some tickets to give away to Crafty Cabal members. As ever, I'm sure it'll be fantastic. It will sell out quick. So if you want to be there on the 29th, then head up head but via the link in our... Show notes. um And I guess it's taking place on the same day as Bendigo on the Hop and some other the key event that ah I can't remember now. Yes. and Unfortunately, we won't make either of these festivals because it's actually the day of my wedding. as i i I sort of toyed with the idea of making to the it to the early session of Blobfish, but I thought I...
Speaker: Aside from kind of convincing anyone of whether or not I could do it, I couldn't think of anything worse than having a bit of acid reflux and filling my teeth ah really disappear while while i seeing my future wife walk down the aisle.
Speaker: Exactly. Well, just to just I guess a bit of a sort of a tangent from that. I almost fainted during our vows when I got married to my wife 20 years ago next month. And I don't know whether it's just because weather because I had had a few beers the night before, but I don't recommend being stood there at the altar sort of rocking back and forward thinking, I just need to lie down on this stone floor next to me while why are you going through the wedding vows? So probably a good idea to skip the first session of blobfish this year. um But ah yeah, on the topic of Bendigo on the hop or the topic of Bendigo, and we've updated the listing for the Cambrian Hotel. um Daniel Ridd, who's, ah I guess, covers a lot of this stuff, new beer releases and that kind of thing from that that neck of the woods for us on the Crafty Pint. He's a huge fan of the Cambrian. So he popped in, had a chat to them, and we've updated their listing as well. For those that haven't been, it sort of combines the sort of the real so old school
Speaker: country Victorian pub charms with a huge passion for indie craft beer and supporting local beer. And they've got an awesome beer garden. They do regular comedy nights. The the pub food comes with like a Korean twist. um Yeah, it's just a pretty bit of a a special pub. So and we'll include a link to that in the show notes as well.
Speaker: Yeah, and another fun event on the radar as well, just ah the Inner West Trail Association. i'm I'm pretty sure I've got that wrong, but... I reckon the Inner West Ale Trail probably would be there.
Speaker: but That's what everyone else refers to. The Trail Association run it, but they've got their Dark Side of Beer Festival this weekend. They had a fresh hop festival not that long ago, and I think, obviously, this this will see the breweries in the on the trail pouring and celebrating dark beer. I think it's good ah to show that you know, there's a, there's a number of trails out there and people kind of launch these things and run them. But the way the inner West are doing it shows that you do need to constantly have activations. You you have to run events, I think, to keep people interested. It's it's all well and good to have a website or a social media account, but you, you genuinely, I think you do need to keep
Speaker: keep people's attention spans coming or it does become like what's the point otherwise you sort of just rehash the same thing every five years people remember there's breweries in marrickville if you want it to be like a really focused place then you need something like this you know i kind of wonder the sunshine coast went pretty hard a number of years ago they've got some fun ticketed events the breweries putting together themselves but the sort of Constant support for it seems to have dropped off. So maybe, you know, Merrickville can once again reclaim the ah crown of craft beer capital over the Sunshine Coast. Well, I think both the inner Westdale trail and the Brookie trail, you know, up in the Northern beaches do do a great job of that. And they've got people who are invested in putting together, you know, coordinated events several times a year as well.
Speaker: um So yeah, hopefully that goes really well. Jason, who does a bit of writing for us, he's been very caught up in getting that that festival off the ground. So best luck to that and to all the venues and breweries taking part, um which brings us to the um the final of our another round um sort of dips into the the Crafty Pint podcast vaults this week. We will be back with ah fresh programming again from next week. um I guess looking at it, I've probably been a little bit ah selfish. And, you know, most of the most of the weeks that we've rerun old episodes when I've been overseas and now that Matt's overseas, we're only giving him one week before has to start editing new shows.
Speaker: um But we figured with it being, you know, the depths of winter, pretty much midwinter here in Australia, a lot of people are taking overseas holidays, thinking of some winter sun, thinking of maybe Bali. um So this week we decided to revisit our chat with Sam Foos, who swapped...
Speaker: Australia for barley and setting up Beaches Brewing barley couple of years ago. and We had a chat with her at her spectacular, I guess, hilltop um villa. um And, you know, not only is it appropriate to do that while people are heading to barley holiday, Sam's obviously one of the, you know, great characters of the of the Australian craft beer over the last 20 years and always good to catch up with.
Speaker: Yes, definitely. So enjoy the program. If you do make sure you like subscribe, leave us a review. However, you listen to your podcast and enjoy the conversation. We'll see you next week with a fresh episode. Cheers.
Speaker: Cheers.
Speaker: G'day listeners, Will here. I'm joined by Sam Bethune, the technical sales specialist at Bintani, and we're here for another edition of Bintani Brewery Boosters. Sam, how are you? I'm good, Will. It's good to be back. One of my all-time favourite Crafty Pint segments. It's a revived. And ah Sam, we're here to talk about hops. so How can brewers think about working with their hops smarter, more efficiently, better, better? more productive.
Speaker: Look, hops get a lot of the limelight in beer and beer conversation, so going to touch on it a little bit without going into too much. um We know, obviously, breweries using T90 cryo hops and things for a long time. Just a bit of a reminder, we're seeing you a lot more different use cases at the moment for some of the more advanced products, tetra hop and iso hop are for downstream additions. If you need that sort of tweak or to dial in your bitterness is not quite right, there are solutions for that, as well as you know maintaining great foam on your beer as well. So, Don't forget don't forget your advanced products and yeah if you need a hand, give us a yell.
Speaker: yeah And what about terpenes? They've been around for a while now. How are terpenes looking? I've seen them probably launched a couple of years ago and got a lot of the um you know ah promo sort of side back then, but it is something we've seen continually used and continuing to grow in this market. um Great for flavour attributes and differentiation in in a hop front for either replacing part of your hop bill with the aroma compounds of that to get better yield out yeah out of your products and also for some of the more fruit flavourful or you know out there flavours like the cannabis sort of flavours as well, way to differentiate your beers. I think since we last spoke, probably one of the main things we're seeing in Australia versus other markets is probably a more subtle use of these characteristics to really...
Speaker: augment or change a flavour profile in a different way rather than dominating and being over the top. So any brewer sort of use, and we're sort of seeing between about sort of 5ml to 15ml a hectolitre being a sort of sweet spot for those when used in conjunction with removing some of you at your t nine your other sort of dry hop load, just to really add that extra layer of complexity with it. from it Abstracts that we distribute, one of their ah sales guys is far more into branding than me described them as the are the Instagram filters of beers. So if you're using existing hops sort of things, you can ah you can add that little filter layer to it and and get that pop.
Speaker: Nice, nice. You know, what about if brewers are looking to get more value out of certain hop products or anything like that? Is a good way to use them? Yeah, good question. So 100%, it's no surprise. While it's getting a little bit more imbalanced, there are way, way too many hops in the world. So I encourage all brewers to not be paying too much for hops. Speak with your suppliers and see, you know, where there's good value around, particularly in bittering varieties and things when you're looking for an alpha acid contribution. costs vary in a huge amount. If you've just been using an early boil edition for a long time because you've had a connection to it or like the name of it, you might find that there's a bit of value moving to some of the other higher alpha oily varieties, particularly from New Zealand and out of Europe.
Speaker: Yeah, okay. And um you know what about sort of designing recipes when hops, ah there can be a little bit of variation from year to year, like how do brewers approach that? Yeah, definite one thing that um I hadn't really given enough credit to for in the brewing days before going in hops selection was just really seeing that difference on farm to farm for farm to farm and geographical differences within hops on a year-on-year basis. So, If you are purchasing hops, be it for us or any other suppliers, really encourage brewers to try and make those sensory notes on them when they're using them at the start of the year, see how they change over the year and from batch to batch. And from Bintani's perspective, it's something we've really doubled down over the last three or four years to be selecting every lot of hops that we get for to try and maintain consistency with the aroma and characteristics of those hops year on, year out. brewers that are lucky enough to get their volumes up to go and do selections of their particular batches by all means but for us you know looking for across the market to try and maintain a level playing field um yeah you know going to get consistent hops um batch on batch from from us wonderful cheers sam thanks hey sammy welcome to the podcast how you going yeah good boys how are you
Speaker: Great, great, great to have you on. You're our second international guest. We've done New Zealand and now you. So we're sort of circling out from Australia. But New Zealand doesn't really count. no That's true. It's like another kind of state on the side of ah over the ditch.
Speaker: Does Bali count though? I suppose where you are, you were saying you're in the real Bali. So do you want to give us a bit of a brief intro to exactly where we're chatting to you from? Yeah, ah everyone everyone seems to think that Bali is just Canggu, Seminyak, Uluwatu, but that's South Bali. So where I'm situated up is North West Bali.
Speaker: um So about four and a half hours, about four, four and a half hours, depending on ceremony, if that's on, um maybe five. um Up North West. So we're in a beautiful diving mecca up here. I've had a lot of a lot of reef and um gorgeous water. So the waves down South,
Speaker: all the yeah the diving and everything up north and over to the east. So you're like the Paris end of Bali. yeah Yeah, well, no, no, no. They're what I call the real Bali. So still villages intact, you know, everything's kind of, there's a lot more but more rules up here in regards to to overbuilding and, you know, they just like to keep it kind of real. You can't you can't build higher than the the roof of the temple, you know, things things like that. But it's still pretty untouched up here, which is beautiful, really really lovely. Yeah.
Speaker: and And it's been oh well over two years since we first did a story about you moving to Bali. um The brewery you've joined, Beaches, has finally got some beers out in the market. Do you want to tell us about how it's taken, ah i guess, a couple of years from you arriving to actually get beers out into into people's hands?
Speaker: Yeah, it's been it's been probably a a lot longer than we had hoped. um But we in the end, we decided to go for a a license that allowed us to do a lot more than just producing beer. So it's very different to Australia where you have a a license to brew beer um and you can kind of make seltzers off. Well, not necessarily seltzers, but you can do a lot of other products on the tail of that.
Speaker: Whereas here, if you want to do a cider, if you want to do spirits, if you want to do seltzers, if you want to do mixed drinks, everything, it all has to be a separate licence. um And recently after COVID, Indonesia has started to transport a lot of their government offices to operate online. So that's taken a bit of time too.
Speaker: um for our licensing, but also the brewery was just kind of placed where it was. So we've been commissioning the brewery, adding on some big bits of equipment like centrifuge. We've just put in a full Cody canning line with a depal.
Speaker: Getting our water, which is super important over here, getting our water right, um our water chemistry, but also just um water hygiene correct. But um taking a bit of an environmental approach to it all as well. So so it's taken it's taken time to kind of get all these processes in place. It's not like Oz where you just bring someone and they're there they within two hours. you know i've i've but I've been waiting think six weeks for a genie lift because they've got to come from Singapore.
Speaker: yeah nervous you know So it's taught me a pretty, and I've learned to slow down a little bit and just, let ride whereas like, come on, this is downtime, let's get going. So it's been, it's been really lovely being up here, being up in the north, in the northwest. But yeah, it it it also kind of weeds out the people that really want to come and visit you.
Speaker: thank you And the ones like ah Will that just want to stay down south in Semenyak and hang out with all the people. yes sorry sorry, I didn't make the trip north, but I did get to and but enjoy your beer in Senua, so it was all worth it still.
Speaker: And tell us, how did you first get involved with and Beaches? Because obviously prior to moving over there, you were filter. You youve obviously worked at a number of breweries across Australia that we'll get to later in the chat. So were you approached? Did you hear about the opportunity? Like, it's a pretty big move to make after, you know, spending so long working in the Australian industry to suddenly not to go to Bali, but to go to an unopened brewery on, you know, the you know the far side of the island, so to speak.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it it's... um It was a lot of decision making. um My partner, um her her folks also live in WA. So we kind of went, well, we moved to Bali to be closer to our parents in WA.
Speaker: um so that was one point. But no, we met we met through mutual friends. um And the Mike, who is the owner here, is an avid beer lover.
Speaker: um And off a whim, he just, ah he set up a brewery and and then kind of went, well, now I need a brewer. And and we talked, honestly, we talked for maybe 12 months.
Speaker: um And I, you know, twice I said to him, thanks for the offer. You know, it's great. It's just not the right time. not the right time and, you know, and he just kept coming back to me, coming back to me and and eventually um I came over here and and and had a look around and and really loved what I saw and and also loved the kind of, you know,
Speaker: the chance to kind of step back a ah little and and slow down. um I mean, I ah read what you guys are writing in on Crafty Pine about burnout and about all these things of of self-care and all of that. And I think it was just the right time for me to...
Speaker: to actually just step back from the fast-paced environment that ah that Australia has at the moment and focus a little bit more on, you know, mentoring and and um and trying to be, yeah well, no, trying to see what so what Indonesia has to offer from the craft beer perspective.
Speaker: Yeah. And do you want to tell us about sort of your team and that mentoring thing? Like, like you've obviously, that's one of the things you would have been doing over there, building, building a production crew around you and all of that. Like, how how's that felt?
Speaker: that um That was a huge part. That was a big part of the decision for me moving over was just to to to pay it forward. You know, 25 years in the industry in Australia, um i um i kind of got to a point where I realised that I could actually give more rather than just being in an operational role and rolling out beer after beer after beer after beer.
Speaker: um You know, I wanted to be able to to mentor maybe some less fortunate people um and maybe go through the the, you know, go through the steps like I did as more of an apprenticeship role. So um the village that our brewery is in, which is about 20 minutes away from where I live, it's called Sangalanget.
Speaker: With an Aussie accent, that sounds quite hilarious. We have a bit of a giggle about that. but um The brewery is built on a rice paddy, um and that rice paddy belongs to one of my brewer's grandfather's.
Speaker: right Not only is it his grandfather's rice paddy, but he also helped construct the building and it's a huge building. We've got 30-heck brew house and, you know, mobs of room.
Speaker: um So he he helped build the actual building. um And it's not like Australia where you have schematics of where your plumbing has gone and where your electrical is. So he's like my my human schematic. I'm like, do you remember where those drains run out to and all of that? And he just, he really showed um how diligent and how, how um it was a really clever guy. um no No huge formal education, just a really smart, switched on guy um that that, you know,
Speaker: lives 50 meters up the road. We literally built on his grandfather's paddy and, um, and literally last week, which is fantastic. He did his first brew on the 30 heck brew house. So, um, I'm super, super proud of him.
Speaker: Um, and he, you know, we're now training up another guy that just lives around the corner. That's, um, Fantastic. His name's Alex. um And then the two other guys that are in administration, one helps out with warehousing. He lives next door to G'day. It's his cousin. his um His grandfather had eight wives. So pretty much the whole village is full of cousins yeah and uncles and aunties. So who's your brewer that you mentioned? You say G'day. Yeah, G'day Attic.
Speaker: Atik, there you go, okay. Atik, yeah. he's been an absolute champion and I'm so proud of where he is ah today, just coming from from literally ah no no formal formal skills, no formal education in anything that he even remotely um you know joined to to brewing. so So it's been really nice to kind of um mentor um mentor and educate and help out people These guys, I mean, he's just, he's come from ah potential of of, you know, working in construction around his village to now being able to travel the world and brew beer.
Speaker: Yeah, awesome. Potentially. Hopefully he'll never leave. but And in in terms of the beer scene, when you described basic elements of your brewery and clearly you know you're putting a centrifuge in, it's a pretty sizable kit. You've got your Cody canning line. wouldn't have been too many years ago that the beer scene in Bali was pretty rudimentary in terms of craft beer.
Speaker: Clearly, it's moved on pretty quick as it is happening in you know other parts of sort of you know South as southeast Asia as well. um Is that something that you've noticed even in the two plus years that you've been there that actually we need to sort of be at this standard or was your intention with beaches kind of like we're going to make sure we are you know helping take Bali's beer scene to this sort of level?
Speaker: I mean, yeah, I think we've known each other long enough for you to know that, that um yeah, everything for me has to be at an absolute high standard. So um the intention was always to come in at the top of the market.
Speaker: um Hopefully I've done that. The thing I found with Indonesia is it was actually the last frontier. So Southeast Asia is going off. I'm doing some judging through Southeast Asia and um spending a lot of time going to the conferences and everything like that. And it is going off at the moment.
Speaker: um You know, Vietnam, Thailand. um We were in Singapore for judging recently as well as the conference. there's There's beers I'm seeing there from Australia. There's beers from all around the world. um And I didn't realise how big it actually was. And then you come down to to Indonesia, which is kind of this long archipelago, and it's almost like this, it's been this kind of stagnant barrier for so long where they theyre people have just...
Speaker: not really cottoned on to what was happening which I find really surprising because the island of Bali is such a multinational island you know you've got expats living here from everywhere over the world um and and really the craft beer scene here has only really taken off probably in the last five years and and when I say taken off we've maybe got like five craft breweries here.
Speaker: um two Two quite larger ones, which is from a volume perspective, which is where we'll sit. But when I say large, there's still only 20, 30 heck brew houses, you know, it's still probably generally under a million litres a year, kind of that. we're not talking We're not talking big monopoly players here. So there's there's room for everyone at the moment. But what I'm finding is the education, right?
Speaker: So the education behind beer for locals. um So we're we're we're we're focusing a lot on on helping the punters to understand what it is we're doing and the the the health bonuses from ah drinking craft as opposed to, you know, um sticking with the other big name breweries that we all know across across Indonesia and and just, yeah, educating people on what it was, which is it's exactly kind of where I was 25 years ago when Little Creatures dropped, you know. I still remember kegs under the bar and, um you know, being kept kept warm and it's it's exactly the same here.
Speaker: So i we're kind of on the we're on the frontier, frontier lines here. And how are you doing that education? Because obviously haven't got a venue for the brewery yet, even though there are you know hopes and plans for a couple down the line. Is that through events in other um venues or like how how do you go about Is it through you know the local press or whatever? how you going about sort of explaining yeah what you do and why people should give your beers a go? um Through our marketing experience.
Speaker: um Marketing through education from from ah from us. Like i've I've been spending quite a bit of time down south. um Approaching venues that already have a grasp on craft beer.
Speaker: So here you've got to think because of that lack um that lack of experience with craft beer, majority of your venues are canned venues. Whereas in Australia, we've we've had pubs. you As soon as you go into hospitality at the age of whatever, 16 for me, you learn how to pour a beer.
Speaker: You know, whereas here, these guys might have been in hospitality and never touched a tap system before. So it's about educating them on on how to pour the beers, why we pour the beers the way we do, um keeping the kegs cold. And it's it's all it's all gone back to, you know, 20 years ago for us in Oz, exactly the same reasons.
Speaker: um But you've also got to remember um we've got barley, which is a bit different. So barley is Hindu. Okay, we've got a lot of expats living here, a lot of tourists coming here. um and then you go to Java, which is where we're selling our beer to. That's majority Muslim.
Speaker: So um that that also has taken probably one of the reasons why alcohol as a whole has taken its time to kind of infiltrate these areas.
Speaker: um But, yeah, you you go to Java now and there's all these all these ah young young crew that that are making a lot of money through um probably more modern terms, um whether it's, a you know, um in the internet.
Speaker: is is Is that the modern term, Sammy? yes But yeah, they're not they're not wanting to get married like their their parents did at 25 and have kids. So they got they're all full cashed up and, you know, working hard, playing hard. So that that's the kind of what we're seeing in Java and the difference of what we're seeing in Bali as well. So, so it's been really interesting, although it's the same country following the different areas too, and seeing what beers we've got two beers out, our pale ale and cerveza designed by, uh, Jess.
Speaker: oh yeah Craft instincts. Yeah, craft in sync, help design by Jess. Nice. And we're finding in areas the cerveza's going off and then other areas no one wants to touch it. They're all about the pale ale.
Speaker: So it's been really, and we've only had beer on the market for about eight weeks. So trying to follow those trends at the moment are all over the shop. Trying to connect the dots and and figure out our forecasting and all of that is kind of all over the shop. But it's it's really lovely. It's kind of that that unknown that is, that mystery that kind of keeps you energised as well.
Speaker: And where do you think you'll most like to end up? Obviously, you're talking about some venues down the line. Is the plan to start brewing with, say, local flavours, assess where the market is and maybe try and you know create some Indonesian-style beers? like would Do you have an idea, of once you've got a foothold in the market, where you would go? Yeah, I mean, the idea for me is always... um ah i guess it's always been... i I guess I learned my, applied my trade in Australia. So you've got to have your cash cows to allow you to do the other fun stuff.
Speaker: um So call range is really important and that that teaches people what we're about, what we can do and the diversity between that core range. So we've got the two out at the moment. and Then we're going to come out in January. So this is, we've got to come out in April after Ramadan. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Because um even though Muslims, some of them might be drinking, they also adhere to Ramadan and everything shuts down as well. Ports, shipping ports, everything. So so a lot of your activities are based around religious ceremonies and and and things. so So the call range for sure, a really good, solid, solid call range. um And we've got a 300 litre pilot kit as well. So we've been playing around on that.
Speaker: um You know, some really cool local local fruits in some sours, dragon fruit, passion fruit. I've also been playing around with fermenting cacao, as in the actual cacao pod, breaking it open, traditionally fermenting it, drying it out and making chocolate from scratch.
Speaker: um The sea salt up here is beautiful. So, and it's all still done in a really lovely traditional way. There's just so much to use up here and it's so exciting.
Speaker: um to to kind of plan out different brews and and what we do i've got a i've got a whiteboard with a list of of things you gone on what we want to do so um so yeah absolutely absolutely there's there's some fantastic ingredients here which i've never seen or heard of before which you know the boys bring me because it's growing out of the out of the back here on their tree or something like that and they're like sam try this and i'm just like wow you know it's like a It's like a toffee apple with a little bit of a citrus twist to it. And, and you know, so it's been really, really ah awesome kind of discovering my own new backyard.
Speaker: um But also I'm growing mango. I'm growing some cacao. I've got some, this is on the at the brewery. I've got some pineapple growing. um All these things will probably be on tap in what we hope to be a group of, um,
Speaker: um Tap rooms, I guess. um Trying to get a licence for each tap room to put a brewery in is probably – you know, a little too much at this stage.
Speaker: um So we'll utilise the equipment we've got up here and just set up tap rooms that that really fit into the culture of where we're going to place them. So, you maybe some beach bars or or maybe some cool, um you know, some cool places in around the rice paddies in Pereira Nan, which is, it's everything's just exploding down south at the moment. So tap rooms are the way forward.
Speaker: um And also that gives you a way to get a lot of the local businesses that are selling our beer into the venue, get to, you know, see who we are, what we're about, our our kind of um mantra and what we do and then bringing them up to the brewery and everyone staying here and having big parties.
Speaker: Sounds like an awful sort of form of planning to be doing. Where where should we open the tap room next? What are you doing? Can we put in our beer, you know, whilst, you know, dipping into the pool but about 10 metres behind where you sat now. Cool.
Speaker: ah Sorry. And Sam, um on that, ah just ah like can you let us know what else you've been doing other than brewing? You know what? Like, I know you loved diving when you moved over there, but like, is there anything else that sort of stands out or have you just basically been spending all your days in the coral reefs?
Speaker: Yeah. It's some okay. So It's been a bit of a, and it's been really nice too. It's been ah it's been a great time to be able to bond with the team.
Speaker: um So, like i said, there's amazing diving up here. Like it's it's just, it's beautiful. It's some of the best diving um that I've kind of been involved with. um So i'm I'm doing a lot of free diving.
Speaker: um Unfortunately, i my ear is, I've got a problem with my ear so I can't get down too low, but free diving, I've and rather as opposed to diving with tanks and stuff like that. But, yeah, getting down, training training kind of my body um to take depths, different depths. I'm getting down about 20, 25 metres. That's when you get right down to some beautiful coral and be able to sit there and check some stuff out. Heaps of turtles up here. We're doing ah um working with a lot of non-for-profit um foundations up here. So whether it's reef restoration
Speaker: um Plastic free permutaran, organising beach cleanups on a regular basis, but, you know, um raising money to be able to pay the locals to do it as a job. um Rescuing animals, that seems to be something that we're quite good at. At the moment we've got some three cats and three dogs and rescued native birds and then we're feeding another couple of dogs that come down and we sterilise the dogs down on the beach. and Yeah, most of my salary gets spent on the animals around the area, but it's great. It's fantastic. Fishing, i went out fishing the other weekend, caught my first mahi-mahi.
Speaker: um and then caught another seven seven or so on top of that, which I shared with the village um and my village up in Sangalangit. But also a whale shark came past to just cruise past us. There's three of us on the boat and just cruised past and hung around for about 20 minutes. And then on the way back in, we hooked on to a marlin. So it's just, it's really hard up here. You're our little Dr. Doolittle with your mansion on the hill, heading into the village with arms full of fresh fish. yeah yeah
Speaker: but Make sure you buy a beer. Exactly, yeah yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, it's great. a lot of Just ah immersing in in a lot of the culture too, which is is really rewarding. i actually, you know, whilst so I don't have to follow a certain religion, the Hindu religion is just such a beautiful, peaceful religion that you go to ceremony and it's it's all about... um It's all about ah obviously paying respects to all the gods and every morning we have a little offering that goes out. It's ah it's quite a beautiful um beautiful religion. um And then, you know, obviously if somebody dies, it's ah it's a celebration, which is something we find really kind of hard to to fathom, you know. they They cremate and then they have a big party and that's to send send the spirit off to wherever their incarnation or next incarnation is. It's just... um
Speaker: Yeah, it's really interesting. and Then everyone does karaoke and drinks adak until they get really busy. And that goes for three days. Wow. There you go. I'm sure you'd fit in well.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. um We'll take a short break now and then come back and have a chat about your career in beer to date. um And, yeah, maybe be a reflection on how you think things are going in the wider beer world. So see you in a minute.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: GoTab is one of the world's leading point of sale platforms designed especially for brewery tap rooms and venues. Today, we're continuing our series on maximizing revenue in your tap room by taking a look at some of the technology coming into play. To talk me through it, I'm joined once again by GoTab General Manager, Nathan Merriman. Nathan, thank you for joining me, mate. Hey, Craig. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here with you, man.
Speaker: Mate, it's always a pleasure. now Nathan, the experience of going to a bar, restaurant or tap room is changing every day. um Technology is playing a big part. How are you seeing venues integrate tech into their offerings? I try and break it down into two parts. um The first one being, you know how does tech help front of house? And then how is tech also helping back of house and then overarching customer experience? the you know The front of house has evolved from um you know just being ah a traditional point of sale to then a QR code ordering solution with a point of sale. And we're now seeing you know whether that's ah handheld devices with servers floating around um or venues that have ah have a mix as well. So you know there's definitely a lot more flexibility with the technology ge for for front of house.
Speaker: And it's talking to to the back of house and chefs with kitchen display screens, they're now communicating in real time and faster than before as well. So whether that's marking a product out of stock or they're adding ah a delay to a product for or a category, um let's say the pizzas, from the kitchen display screen that's updating on the QR and the point of sale in real time. So talking back from front of house and back of house and helping set those customer expectations. And I think another couple of ways we're seeing tech come into venues is we've got partners that are using golf sims and darts bays and things like that, or They're using AI tools for reservations as well. So we're definitely seeing tech, um you know, go from just being a a QR code tool to a tool that's helping enable um a customer experience within the venue across multiple facets. Yeah, nice. I'm a big fan of those those virtual Dart Bay things. They're um they're a lot of fun. Yeah, they're amazing. I've got a very poor record on them, unfortunately. It's interesting, though. I think um you know technology can be incredibly powerful, I think, when done well. And there is a risk, though, it can also alienate some customers if it's managed poorly.
Speaker: ah guess Why is it so critical to get that implementation right? Tech's part of the overall customer experience now in our venues. And we've put so much pride on delivering this incredible customer experience as we want, you know, we want these customers to come in back. We want them to spend more and we want to build these relationships in our in our venues. When tech is implemented poorly and you're starting to find, you know, these clunky experiences or, you know, not connecting to whatever you're trying to connect to, it becomes off-putting.
Speaker: um for that customer and it might be you know create an experience that is no longer convenient when done well though you know it can provide flexibility you know one of the things that with go tab we've got the ability to start our tab and order that at the bar and then that tab can then follow me to that QR code and I've got an open open tab across both experiences there, ordering through the bar or ordering through the QR. And I can close out both ways too. So that gives me flexibility for my customer journey in the venue and when done well is help increase that revenue, capture customer data more, whether that's what I'm from a product point of view, what i'm eating and drinking, how many times am i have i am I coming to the venue? and then be able to hopefully talk back to that customer using a great CRM tool.
Speaker: Events like trivia nights or comedy have always been popular with breweries. We're now seeing venues take events even further with more elaborate productions and sort of ticketing setups.
Speaker: ah How is GoTab playing a part here? Events is a... It seems to be a bit of a booming business in breweries and tap rooms. you know, we're able to help process tickets um through integration partners there. But the other piece is when you're setting up a private event, you've got the ability to create these private event menus that we can send out in advance as well, and that you can access on your QR code when you come in based on your phone number. So let's say, Craig, it's your 21st birthday again. we we can create a special menu for you. can share that out to your ah friends who you've invited. Once you come into the venue and you scan the QR code and you'd have that special access to that private menu for your birthday there as well. and then you know we have a great um integration with triple c one of our partners there and when you using that platform we're bringing the entire banquet order or the event order into go tab on the day and then we're sending off um sending off food to the kitchen display screens and and drinks to the to the bar screens as well so giving shit giving chef and the team time to prepare on the day as well or finalize those dishes and allowing the event to have ah you know this experience where i can come in and I can continue to add to my tab that I initially started. Nice one. Well, thank you so much, Nathan. And and guys, remember, if you would like to get in touch with GoTab and arrange a demo with their Aussie team, just email Nathan. He's at Nathan at GoTab.io. That's Nathan at GoTab.io. We'll pop it in the show notes.
Speaker: Mate, thank you once again. Cheers. Thanks, Greg.
Speaker: Welcome back, Sam. If you can remember it, should we go back to the very early days? Do you want to tell listeners that very first brewing job um at Little Creatures? Yes, that's quite rude if you can remember it.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah but yeah I'll start it again then. All right. Thanks, Will. You just reminded me of my age. I turned 50 this year. Oh, congratulations.
Speaker: Congratulations. like Yeah, I kind of, sure yeah, I'm still dealing with that. 50 is the new 30, I reckon. ah Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm living in a pretty beautiful place and had a pretty lovely life at the moment, so not much is you know not much to complain about.
Speaker: Yeah. But, yeah, well, 25 years ago, yeah.
Speaker: At Little Creatures, the third brewer ever employed at Little Creatures um in WA, in Fremantle. um And I had three and a half years there before i um packed back up and moved back to the East Coast because I actually grew up on the East Coast and went went to the West Coast when I was 19,
Speaker: What did you do to and get land that first job at Little Creatures? Because I guess wouldn't have been the same level as sort of training and I guess just general awareness around brewing back then? Yeah. Well, i actually, I'd just come back from overseas.
Speaker: um You know, the the passage um the passage that we all do when we're younger, go over to England. have no idea why we go to England because we get a visa or something. But, you know, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and I came back and I just um i needed some part-time work or some some work just to get me going. So I started on the bar there. um And I'd kind of been working in hospitality for a long time previously, you know, at some some of, I guess, Australia's first craft beer venues, which West Australia had had a few of. um The Sail and Anchor, the Brass Monkey.
Speaker: um we all know those from from early days and and having the brewery, obviously, at the Sail and Anchor. So I had been working with craft beer before. um and And just, yeah, frio Frio was kind of getting off the ground and everything was starting to happen there. And I came back and my dad had told me about this brewery that's opening up. And I happened to have worked with one of the managers previously. And so I got a job on the bar at at Little Creatures. And I was there about eight months. And um on my spare days off and everything like that, I would actually go over into the brewery and just...
Speaker: just muck out anything I could take gravities, go in the, you know grain out, um, keg beer, anything, anything I could kind of do. Cause I was really quite fascinated by, by the whole, um, process of it all. Um, and then,
Speaker: Much to, um obviously, Aaron Heary from Gage Roads, much to his dismay and and my luck, he he quite he burned himself quite badly down his leg to the point where he had to get skin grafting and everything like that. um But what that did was open up a hole. And at that stage, there were only two brewers, Aaron and Reese.
Speaker: um But that opened up um a necessity of we need someone in the brewery ASAP who can just help out doing the kind of mundane day-to-day stuff, whether it's, you know, gravities,
Speaker: uh, graining out, just ah supporting the brewer, um, brewing, doing all the, all the stuff that, that I kind of had been doing already. Yeah. Anyway, so, so I just filled a gap. And then when, uh, as I came back from his injury, um I got offered a position, the third brewing position at Creatures. So, so yeah, I kind of came up through the ranks more of a, um, apprentice style as opposed to having done formal, formal, uh, education at uni for, for whatever it was, but, I guess hospitality for me was my my formal education into into the brewing world.
Speaker: so So there was no home brewing like your first brews were on the the original Creatures kit. 50 hectolitre creatures kit. With hot flowers, yeah. There you go Yeah, yeah, with hot flowers. So those were the days. Those were the days. I just remember just coming in and starting a shift and and, you know, it'd be all these beautiful hot flowers and all the resins just sitting on top of the hot back. And we had to go into quarantine bins and the the Port Authority had to come and pick it up. And it was just really, it was the good old days.
Speaker: Impractical. Yeah, yeah it's totally impractical. yeah and a lot and And worth ah you know a lot of money involved. and And was that your only sort of brewing job in WA before you came over to um the East Coast? or Because I think when i first came across you, you'd been brewing at Middle Park, I think. But were there other jobs in between? Yeah.
Speaker: No, no, no, no. I, and just just back in in the in the little creatures from that perspective, I had some amazing mentors. So I mentioned before Rogers. So that was the Rogers, Roger Bailey and Roger Bussell, who were very closely involved. So those guys took me under their wing and and really kind of,
Speaker: Really helped take me out, you know, take me out on field trips and to do different things with the guys. So that was that was a pretty special experience as well. But from there, um I guess there was a bit of a a A friend of mine was working at the Middle Park, which was Gun Island, um and they had just lost their brewer um due to ah the brewer, Stephen.
Speaker: He moved back to South Australia. I think he had a a family member that wasn't well. So um that was kind of a bit abrupt. And, um yes so I spoke to – and I think that that stage it was owned by ALH,
Speaker: um And they had three other breweries running. So there was Gun Island. There was Brennan, Brennan Fielding, who I can't remember the name of his venue. And then there was another brewery ah going there. So so there were three three actual brew houses within the group. So there was a bit of support there as well. And they also understood, um you know, about about brewing and and what what it's like to have a brew pub. So, yeah.
Speaker: so Just for context so for listeners, so Brennan went on to Fort Found Burley Brewing, I guess, around about not too long after that time at all, I guess, with with Peter. Yeah, yep, yep, absolutely. So after that, so they shut the breweries there. um Yeah, he went on to, wow so that makes them, they've been around for a while.
Speaker: I think they just, yeah, they celebrated 18 like a month ago. so Yeah, that'll be about right. That's fantastic. Well done. Yeah. Um, yeah, so they, they, he went on to his own thing. I, uh, where'd I go? I went up to, oh no. There was Schwartz so along the way somewhere.
Speaker: No, well I went out to Matilda Bay when they were building the garage. Yeah. Yeah. So is that Dandenong? You were right, Wilsh, you can't remember. yeah Is that the Dandenong space? Yeah, yeah, that that was Dandenong.
Speaker: um Right out next, I'll never forget it. It was right out next to, um I don't know the company name, but they were they were making cowboy cocksuckers. So all I could smell all day, every day was fucking BDK.
Speaker: Like it was just, you couldn't even, every time they were mixing it and making you, just like this waft of butterscotch would just come through and. Yeah. ah But that was that was fun. We built race car tracks and um and did a little bit of brewing. Actually, can you give you a bit of an insight? Because that was the the Brad Rogers era, I guess, at the the garage and in Dandenong. Was Jane there for a little while? And you hear these stories, you about, um you know,
Speaker: spending spending some of CUB's money to put in a coffee roaster for this one beer, but actually putting in like a commercial grade coffee roaster that wasn't required at all. And a huge electrics track drilled into the ground between the tanks, all this stuff. None of it's apocryphal, it all happened. and No, no, no, it all happened. So think I was there a few years before Jane.
Speaker: um But, yeah, i i um i was I was one of the race car track driver builders, but also roasting coffee. um We had Barking Duck going through. We had a bunch of specialties going through. But I think at that stage also um a lot of the main stuff that was coming out of the Matilda Bay brand was being brewed.
Speaker: um you know, at so at the big house. So we did a lot um a lot with, do you remember some of the marketing ads they did? we were I remember marching down one of the streets in Melbourne, Main Street, going, protesting the bakers were using barley in bread and, and or not not barley, wheat in bread and not beer. And it was all just, it was, ah they had, who did they have? They have Stuart McGregor. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: um I think doing a lot of their crazy marketing stuff there. The guy went on to Liquid Ideas, wasn't it? Yeah, Liquid Ideas. And also for Billis. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so there was some there was some crazy shit coming out of out of there, but what was really it was a really, really cool time to um to be there because there was just this, we could kind of experiment with what we needed to and we'd all sit around. I mean, Brad had his ideas on on what beers, but we would actually kind of come in and and just really get involved in brewing these really cool, funky beers and then, you know,
Speaker: wax dipping 2000 champagne bottles and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. It was like, this is fucking nuts. like yeah Like, yeah.
Speaker: Say again, sorry.
Speaker: Which part? and I was just saying it was a great time, but I guess I was thinking in in terms of, you know, the people that you work with and you know the mentors you had, like pretty incredible, you know, welcome into the industry. But I guess also if you were to sort of plot things,
Speaker: the number of people in the careers and the breweries that have been influenced or have come from those days in Little Creatures or those days at the garage as well. ah It would be pretty phenomenal, you know, catalogue of people and and achievements throughout the the beer world.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Just being having the opportunity to to to even just listen, um you know, to to the philosophies and the the brewing techniques, ah the ideas, the what you can do, what you can't do kind of – ideas as well between the big houses and then you've got your you know your crazy minds like Brad Rogers and then Sydney also, i had some really great mentors up and and around Sydney as well um and then, yeah, i've I've been really, really lucky um and I think ah think a lot of it is having the patience to actually sit back and listen to these people and and absorb it and absorb their their technique of telling a story through through beer as well.
Speaker: yeah um So, yeah, I've been pretty lucky. And you sort of moved, I guess you worked for some of the bigger operations, but also had some time with small operations like, you know, the Gun Island would have been a you know pretty small group of operation. There was True South, of which you were a founding member. But then, you know, you early days of Young Henry's was, I guess, built to be a bigger operation. But you sort of to have sort of flitted around you know Do you have a preference for the business you like to work for? Do you like just to be that there in the early days in a business? you know Have you sort of found what your real you know passion is within brewing? Yeah.
Speaker: um Yeah, I mean, I guess when you say the big guys, are only really little creatures and there were only three brewers there. So that's not, yeah it was still independently owned, not really the big guys. And i only did six months at Matilda Bay just as a um just as a short ah um step because they'd closed the breweries down, obviously. And then... then then most of my stuff's been craft and I mean even smaller craft and even young Henry's so i decommissioned their 12 hectolitre brew house and and commissioned the the larger one and also you know took care of a lot of the the upgrade of that but upgrading of recipes upgrading um of um the forecasting and and the pathway as well at little creatures so
Speaker: um I think for me I've found i really, really enjoy setting up breweries. um I love setting up filter, being able to to to kind of do it um set up a brewery with the knowledge that I've learned over years of process of what what works, what doesn't work, um flow, also safety has been a huge aspect of of um you know building breweries for me these days.
Speaker: um Making sure that the automation allows the brewer to focus on the recipes as opposed to running around opening tanks and You know, that you know just just ah just allowing them, giving them the time to focus on what they need to focus on um and implementing things that, um you know, help the efficiency of a brewery as well. So I really love setting up breweries. I love trialling and, you know, getting getting the new recipes down to where they are now, going through the intricate details of, you know, this is missing the point here. And I guess that comes into a lot of my judging as well. um I try to be, I'm pretty hard.
Speaker: I'm actually pretty hard on on my beers. So I try and approach beers that I'm brewing, um not only as a brewer, but as as someone from the outside stepping in.
Speaker: um what What could this person do better? You know, but not that I would ever offer, you know, Offer that to anyone. um But some what what can I do better? Where can I make improvements in this?
Speaker: And sometimes you come to the point where it's like, okay, I think i if i go any if I go too much further, then I'm i'm i'm stepping away from the um the style and the truth of the style of what I want it to be. So stop fucking around. And any favourite beers of of yours over the years? like Is there a beer you go, that's the the beer, I know absolutely how to nail it. I mean, I guess the Filter XPA was champion pale ale within like three months of filter launching. You you've a pale ale where you are now. But also, used to love brewing. There was a red ale that always used to appear wherever you you turned up ah in the early years as well. Like you read... so Was it Red Truck bit a or something like that? Yeah, yeah. know, other particular beers you go, that's that's a Sammy beer, you know, that's what I love love making.
Speaker: Yeah, the um so the I guess the XPA, ah Filter XPA, um that wasn't just ah I hit the mark on the spot. I had actually been working on that style and that particular beer in my head for probably about two, three years before um at least at least two years before I even got the recipe down on paper and went, this is what I want to brew for this. i was being selfish, I guess. it was It was definitely a beer that came from my heart that I wanted to to work on and give it to the right
Speaker: give it the right light it needed. So there was a stint where I had a little bit of jockeying around, a little bit of a walkabout brewer with Old Salt Brewing. And I brewed a similar beer there um in different breweries. That was the Old Salt Pale Ale.
Speaker: And that was kind of that beer, that that actual beer was kind of the birth of of the the XPA. um And then obviously I, you know, I stepped up and...
Speaker: and actually put it down on paper what I really wanted and the style that I really wanted um to to execute. So, yeah, so that's kind of that's a roundabout kind of answer. like and and And is your paler beaches, is that similar to the XPA? Have you thought, well, that works, that that'll work for a different market as well? or if you had It's a completely different beer, James, because I couldn't do that. I wouldn't be allowed to do that.
Speaker: No, it's... um So it's I would say definitely it's an XPA style. um It's different to filter XPA in many, many ways. um But what i what I've done is I've called it a pale ale because – I think, do you remember when we first had XPA hit the shores of Australia? Nobody knew what it was. There was a black XPA out there. There was extra pale ale, you know, where it ended up being ah a double-dumped, triple dry-hopped, um high BU kind of. it No one really had nailed the style until until the guidelines kind of came out. So, yeah.
Speaker: I didn't want to confuse the market here. Pale Ale is obviously the largest category of beer in in the world. I think I'm safe to say that, um along with lagers and your pilsners.
Speaker: Yeah, so I just kind of used the KISS method on that one. um So just keep it simple, um keep it to the point. People know what a pale ale is, but they might not know what our pale ale is. So i'm I'm very much, my style of brewing is all about flavour and aroma.
Speaker: um So it' it sticks to that that style. It sticks to what's true to ah to to how I brew and what my my style of brewing is. Same with all my beers. I'm i'm not about big, brashy,
Speaker: You know, IPAs, double IPAs that, you know, the BUs are up over 100 because because i can kind of thing. That's just not my style. I'm i'm more about some keeping it fluid across across the base. And doesn't mean I haven't done double IPAs that have done really well in competition and and are fantastic beers, but I like to get the flavour in there. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And in terms of what's going on in Bali, keeping with that in the marketplace, like, do you see sort of echoes of those early days in Australia? You know, you went from a small team at Little Creatures, very early brewery, to by the end of your time in this brewing in Australia, you're in the middle of Marrickville.
Speaker: there's there's a lot, probably as many breweries as it were in WA around you. um Very different scene. do you sort of see it like, you know, maybe heading in that direction or where do you sort of, how do he sort of view Bali? Is it like early Australian craft?
Speaker: um It's, it's a, that's a really hard one, Will. It's um because, because we have kind of, because Bali has so many expats in it, you know, everything from um the US to Australia, you've got people from, from over Middle East, you've got heaps of English here. You've, you've got all walks um of, of um all walks of life here. and I don't know, is there is there any one real style that's actually hitting all of those markets and all of that? So that's it's a hard one. And um i think I think each brewery as they open it, I know that we've got about five now in Bali and I know of another two or three that are opening.
Speaker: I think the cream... The cream will will rise to the top eventually, as it did in the Australian market, um and you'll start to see some businesses that that might not necessarily be as successful as as others, um and that will come down to are you brewing the right beers stylistically?
Speaker: um Are you brewing good beers, for starters? um Because ah once once we start to get more competition here, You know, the it'll all work out in the wash kind of thing, if if if that if you know what I mean. And the home...
Speaker: the home In Australia we had that we had a big um surge of home brewers opening businesses um and some of those super successful today even. um But a lot of them also kind of fell by the wayside because the the technique and the practices used in brewing commercial beer is a lot different to what you brew at home with your mates. So I think, yeah, Will, in answering your question, I think we'll probably see something similar to...
Speaker: to what happened in Oz um and probably what happened everywhere else. I mean, I don't know many places at the moment that countries that have really shitty breweries as opposed to really good breweries.
Speaker: So, yeah. We'd like to end these um most of these interviews in similar way. so if there was one thing you wish you'd known when you started out 20-odd years ago, what would that have been?
Speaker: Be kind to my body. LAUGHTER Yeah. um And I guess what I mean by that was um I was, you know, invincible in my early 20s, invincible. We had 50 kilo bags of grain rocking around back then, you know. um And because I always felt like I needed to be up, you know, i needed to be lifting the same as the fellas, be doing the same as the fellas, be working in in the same kind of – you know, speed and and as as as the boys, i i did that and I did that throughout my career because I've i've never really...
Speaker: I've never really kind of up until probably the last 10 years, I've never really taken too much notice of myself and my actual um physicality.
Speaker: um But now I spend a lot of time on on on training right and safe ways to to go about things. So i think my motto these days has become more um work smarter, not harder. And that's that's probably what advice I would offer.
Speaker: um anyone going going forward as well um and and know you know your worth um I think for me it's it's know know my worth have faith in my abilities and have faith in in what I can achieve yeah because it used to be very much a case I think of a work hard play harder wasn't it oh yeah yeah yeah yeah Too much. I'm in bed by 9.30 these days.
Speaker: well And in terms of it anyone's getting into the game now, whether it's starting a brewery or becoming a junior brewer, any he sort of ah nuggets of advice for them? Will it be the same?
Speaker: what Definitely the same. like I don't really want to offer too much information to you know people getting into the business because the climate in Australia at the moment is just...
Speaker: ah just I just, feel so, my heart my heart really goes out to a lot of businesses that have lost their livelihood, a lot of brewers, a lot of friends that have lost their livelihood. So i think more the the, again, the insight that I would offer to people getting into the industry.
Speaker: You may think it's glamorous and there are times when it is, but really it's ah it's it's hard work. It's hard yakka and and you're expected to do hot, heavy, hard work. So take it in your stride. Learn from people around you, even if you, you know, even if you might not have the best relationship with them. I think everybody that you're working with has something to offer in regards to to mentoring and and how, know,
Speaker: Their words may be able to help you in a situation five or six years down the track kind of thing. So just take it slow, listen, and be and be safe with your body. Don't break it.
Speaker: And do you have a big dream for beer in the future, whether it is in Bali, back home in Australia? Like like where do you sort of, what's your hope for how beer looks in the future?
Speaker: think the question I think the question is how beer looks in my future. You know, as I said, I'd just turned 50 and I actually thought, fuck, how how am i how how long am I going to stay in this? What am I going to do? Is this is this a life for me? Am I going to be some crusty old 65-, 70-year-old brewer, you know, in ah in a backyard somewhere, um you know, stirring a mash and thinking of the old and, you know, the old days and how good it was?
Speaker: um I don't know. um but I know that i'm still I'm still passionate about what I do. I still love what I do. um and I still think I'm one of the luckiest people in the world.
Speaker: um You know, I get to make beer for a living and and especially taking this step coming here to Bali, I get to now... um be able to offer and mentor people that that might not have necessarily ever had an opportunity like this before. So i feel really i feel really lucky that I have the the power to be able to do that and and pay it forward.
Speaker: Well, I'm going to mark the diary for 15, 20 years' time to come back and talk to the crusty Sam whilst you're still stirring the mash tun, you know, reminisce about this conversation. ahll I'll be by then what I want to be is like I just want to be an ambassador.
Speaker: Okay. So I get stint and flown over to different places and just wax lyrical about beers and stuff like that. Done. Okay. we'll we'll We'll check in and make sure that's happened. If not, we'll yeah we'll we'll give someone a nudge to take you on in that role.
Speaker: Yeah. Sam's looking for a job drinking and talking about beer. no i still I've still got a lot left in me. Come on. it now we're talking about 15 years down the line. We know you've got plenty left in you, Sam. That's well established.
Speaker: Yeah, good, good, good. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for that. Always great to chat. and I look forward to booking in the the flights for Bali sometime. Obviously, when you head back, need to head the other side of the island.
Speaker: Absolutely. um Make sure you come up. I've got a huge place. um You can have the kids, you can put the kids under the pool or something, lock them in a room and and hang out. But um no, no, I've got a huge place. we've had we've had I've had quite a few crew come up and and stay. And usually that's a good excuse for me to take the team away from the brewery and go diving for the day. So...
Speaker: So, yeah, that's what we call team bonding days. manam They're from the brewing industry. Let's go diving. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sounds awesome. Well, with it thank you so much for your time. And, yeah, look forward to catching up soon.
Speaker: Excellent. Thank you, boys. Lovely. You both look wonderful. Cheers, Sam. Cheers.
Speaker: The Crafty Pine podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pine website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
Speaker: We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. but If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
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