Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm James and this week I'm without my regular co-host Will, who normally would be doing this part of the show, so I'm having to step in and hoping I live up to Will's impeccable standards. Will got married on the weekend, fantastic wedding at Inner North Brewing. in Brunswick, had a wonderful dance with my wife like I was 25 again, it was very exciting. um But he'll be away for the next few weeks in Italy with his delightful wife Courtney. So i hope you're having a wonderful time Will, thank you for inviting me to your wedding. Instead I'm here with ah Luke McCarthy who i guess you're gonna be seeing a fair bit of you know us in
Speaker: you Us in tandem, really. know, I know. So, yeah, thank you to the crafty yeah audience for having me. First and foremost, it's an honour. It's a privilege, I feel like. Yeah, what do you know about beer, Spirits Guy? Spirits Guy, get off my beer channel. No, so you may well have seen me and Luke chatting a couple of times recently on the Full Measure podcast, a new sibling publication dedicated to the world of Australian spirits. So, we'll Will, Luke?
Speaker: Oh, wow. Let's go with Luke. like that, actually. Yeah, Will would like that. He'd appreciate that. Yeah, so Luke is here as my co-host for this week and the coming weeks until Will returns. And, you know, if you're really good, to be honest, who needs Will? Oh, man. Permanent standing, you never know. yeah don't think so, mate. He is, you know, Zabel is irreplaceable. And Zibel, and I've been calling him Zibel all these years because I feel it's right. And then at his wedding, it sort of brought it home that if him and his family say Zibel, maybe I should just get the program and just stop telling everyone in his family and all his friends that they're wrong. um Anyway, back to the back to the world of beer. yeah um And yeah, I hope everyone had a wonderful time at Blobfish Festival and Bendigo on the Hop at the weekend. Two of my favorite beer festivals in Victoria, in the whole of Australia, in fact, um which you know we had to sacrifice for... Will's, um you know, marriage ceremony. But, you know, was a wonderful time. It's like placing a lot for Will's wedding, aren't we? We have done indeed. Yeah, I know. yeah Of all the weekends to pick, you know, two of the most wonderful boutique festivals. But, you know, there you go. yeah
Speaker: And, oh, well, the big one. The big one. I know if you can tell. I hope you can tell. There's a little bit of a croak in his voice. There is. He doesn't look very good. If you jump on YouTube and you have a look at him. I think that's a little bit harsh. Yeah. I put eye drops in before, know, hitting record on the camera, basically. So last night, the fearless leader, the fearless crafter himself was, well, you became a legend at the Melbourne Food and Wine Festival Awards. Congratulations, mate. Enormous, you know, incredible honor. And some of the names on that list are, you know, pretty staggering. I know you probably got to spend some time with them last night, which is why you're feeling a little bit dusty this morning. Yeah, it was, I got a call from someone at Melbourne Food and Wine the day we actually landed back from the UK. And I was like, oh, fuck.
Speaker: What do they think? but i hope I'm sure Drink Victoria is already passing. Yeah, let me know that um I've been and nominated as a legend in the communicator, educator category. um's It's kind of interesting as well. I think, you know, in two things, a beer is a little bit sort of off to the side sometimes in the world of food and wine and you know bars and restaurants, that kind of thing. um you know We've done our best to try and change that over the years. um But also personally, yeah know we now have our office space and I actually get to see humans on a regular basis. yeah But know the last 16 years of running The Crafty Pint has pretty much been me and a laptop and my speakers. no kind of on my own and really getting out. So you don't sort of necessarily have that connection with the wider world. So was pretty cool to be out there last night and um yeah, just kind of like, oh, look at these people, look at these people. um So no, yeah're really, really delighted. As I said last night, I think the last time I was awarded something was when I was playing for the Mountain Goat indoor cricket team.
Speaker: And we and we won we were champions of the Northcote Thursday night indoor cricket league division four. Wow. Did you get a little medal? Still got the plastic trophy the kitchen. Oh, plastic trophy. That's even better. Yeah, yeah. So that was a full sort of 17 years ago. So it's been a while.
Speaker: Excuse me. Been a while between between awards. But yeah, it was very, very cool. And it was also, in in the in terms of the world of beer, um first person to come over and say congratulations was Cam Hines who was one of the founders of Mountain Goat. wow And so since he um left Mountain Goat after they'd sold to Asahi many, many moons ago, he's founded this kelp farm farming business and they did they were trailblazers in the world of sustainability. and So it's like, you know, he's just gone on and had this incredible second second career. um So congratulations to Cam and yeah everyone else last night. And, you know, I must say, I said some very nice things about my wife while I was up on stage, but she then insisted that I stay out after the awards.
Speaker: I'm now regretting all the nice things I said about her. The world of hospitality where Monday night is a night to go out doesn't really fit with the world of daily publishing. True, true. Yeah, today's been a rough day. Oh, mate. It's huge. No, huge congratulations. That's a massive moment. And yeah, mate, kudos to you. That's fantastic. I didn't even know you had to do a speech as well. Everyone must have been looking at Crafty in his element. Well, they were like, know, they said you've got two minutes and Tara didn't want to have to record it. So she the... my phone, someone else to record it. We got back, he goes, oh, my arms did start tiring. And you may find the camera starts dropping after a while. And I was like, oh, did I go over a bit? I said, I had it a tight two minutes worked out. And then I started ad-libbing a bit. But then there was a guy up after me and he went on and on and on. And I spoke to him after. He goes, well, some people were so short that I kept adding on the time they hadn't taken in their two minutes to what I'd taken. So once he'd been on, I felt like I'd sort of moved back into the median, you know, chatter for the night. Nice. Well, as someone who never likes to talk themselves up, I think that's great. Fantastic for us to be here and celebrating that with you. And am I correct in saying that Sailor's Grave were in the house last night? Yeah, so they were named as Local Hero Legends last year. So I'm pretty certain. How it works is it's peer nominated, so all previous winners are allowed to nominate somebody. And I'm pretty sure that Chris and Gab, I now know that Chris and Gab were involved because a quote from them was read in the night. So they were Local Hero Legends last year. And so I'll get to nominate you next year.
Speaker: Don't. That's a bit silly, mate. I think we've got to get a few more runs on the board. Let's just call our jets. Well, how many years been involved in the World of Spirits now? It's 15 years before you can become a legend. No, mate. Not legend status enough. And you're too long in the tooth to be a trailblazer. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Speaker: I'll sit in the middle. Let's let's talk about that for another day. And in Maravagill, there's some news with Wildflower from Future Brewing, or Wildflower's ex-space. Yeah, Wildflower. Wildflower, he closed their doors for the last time a couple of months ago.
Speaker: and We also had Topher on the podcast back ah when when he was announcing the decision to put Wildflower on pause. hoping it remains a pause. and Not long after that, and we heard that the guys at Village Days, which is a brew pub sort of a bit further north in Sydney, they were looking at taking over the site. We were very keen to get a story out straight away, and sort of but he was just ah just, you know, call your jets. Call your jets.
Speaker: Got a, you know, dot a few I's, cross a few T's. um But we've been checking with Dan, and he's confirmed... um So i haven't actually, I'm speaking to him after we've done this podcast today, so i don't have the full details. So Village Days are taking over the Wildflower site. So so brewing and beer will continue there. um So yeah, I don't know a huge amount at the minute, but I will, you know, there' there'll be more available on the website by the time this podcast goes live. um And in...
Speaker: almost marrickville news in in for in sort of fellow inner north ale trail news we did a story um ah two or three weeks ago so future brewing have been in a bit of a stooch with one of their neighbors um complaints about sort of noise issues that kind of thing um it's been going for quite a while and cost them fair money so we did a story about how the know west ale trail brewers have rallied around them um created a collaborative collaborative beer doing bit of a fundraiser the launch for that was uh last week and just was absolutely packed and so it's just been a Nice thing to see, you know, I guess the community rallying around. guess that's one of the things about the beer industry. It generally is a very collegiate space. And so that all the local brewers there as sort of rallied around Future and had a massive kickoff last night. So um hopefully that all goes really well for them and they get the sort of the outcome they want because it has...
Speaker: yeah It's got to the existential state as to whether you know and a future brewer in there, as the name suggests, that you know they're one of those sort of cutting-edge brewers, you know always looking at new ingredients, you know making fantastic IPAs in particular. um So no one wants to see them you know come a cropper. Yeah, we'll get around them. That sounds fantastic. And up in Mildura, son of a brewing. Have you spent much time Mildura? I love Mildura. Beautiful little place. I haven't spent a huge amount time. I did go there with my mum and dad many years ago and we booked it so late and we didn't know why it was so busy. It was when, you know, the the speed um racing that takes place on the river. yeah got hot right And so we ended up having to book like a side room at some old couple's house. yeah First of all, mum and dad had been to Australia. We're like, you know, we're just we're just going to stay in the granny flat at the back of this place. Anyway, it was a lovely time. yes yeah so So Majora now has a new brewery as of, I think about three weeks ago. Cool. um
Speaker: We're not sure it's Suneva, Suneva, Suneva, maybe, I don't know. We'll find Anyway, S-U-N-E-V-A. You'll find it if you type it into Google. Yeah, young family moved up there.
Speaker: and He went up there a few few years before his wife joined him. So, you know, a couple of years in the in the in the country and then we'll maybe move back to the coast. Yeah. um But they're now open a brew pub. So I guess they're probably gonna be there for a while. yeah um And yes, so we all had a chat to them before we headed off. It sounds like ah lots of support. They were saying you know they're in a suburb where a lot of things have been closing down. There wasn't necessarily that sort of you know community hub. um And sounds like the you know it's got going really well. So check it out in the show notes. Fantastic, beautiful.
Speaker: And La Street Brewing, another place that I've spent a bit of time in myself um on the distilling and brewing side of things, which is which is fantastic. um Good to see them sort of, I guess, charting a new directory a trajectory, sorry, moving forward. Yeah, yeah, well, and so people probably know them, we'll know Bilson's. So obviously Biltons, very established name in the world of drinks, especially they their cordials but back in the day up in Beechworth. Family moved up to Beechworth, took over the old Biltons quite a number of years ago. and Started making beer, brought back the cordials, um really went off with their flavoured RTDs, you know their 3.5% vodka-based drinks, went absolutely nuts. like It was one of the most crazy... you know, runaway success stories of of recent times. um And then for one reason or other, I think one of the main ones being hard solo, or hard rated, um ran into a bit of trouble, quite quite a bit of trouble. um Anyway, but the family was able to, they went through administration, families brought it back. It's now Last Street Brewing, but also Last Street Distilling. um what The Spirits of Awards that you hosted a few weeks ago, they picked up a number of golds. they did. They did quite well, actually. yeah yeah I mean, the juice coming out there has always been fantastic, whether it's beer or spirits. So yeah so so we've got a listing for them now on the on the website on the for the brewing side of the business. So good to see them back up back up and running. So we'll be able to check that out as well. Another another little gift that Will left in is sort of, you know, I'm off for a month, James, but here's my gifts to help you get through. So you'll be able to read all about what they're up to and their beers.
Speaker: via the link in the show notes. Yeah, sounds great. And talk to me about Three Ravens and their not an Oktoberfest. Yeah, so we got we've got a few new sort of, I guess, giveaways and deals and stuff for our members of our Crafty Caval Beer Club. um Coming up on September 19th, Three Ravens have got an event called Definitely Not an Oktoberfest.
Speaker: um not sure There's je there quite a few German beers they're going to be pouring there and they've also dug in and poured some of the the last remaining sort of you know rarities from their um old barrel program. So we've got a $10 discount for that for cabal members. Also coming up as co-conspirators who have more later in this chat. They've got Matriarch is their biggest days of the year, celebrating their very famous Hazy IPA, the Matriarch with three arms on on one side, if you look carefully at the label. yeahp and Well, two arms on one side, one the other, three in total. We've got some bar tabs up for grab there, um and also got some tickets up for grabs for Crafted Festival in Newcastle, and one who makes its debut in Melbourne in November as well. um And speaking of co-conspirators, so that's this week's main guest. um
Speaker: I'm sure that everyone listening or watching the show is aware of co-conspirators. Founded by, yeah, very close to here. think it's pretty much just a little sort of stroll for them up to the studio. founded by two couples 10 years ago now. So that's we had them on for, chat about their 10 years of co-conspirators. I did event with them a few weeks ago at the brewery for our, actually for our Cabal members, talking about the 10 years. And we figured that, you know, it can be a bit of a squeeze to try and get, you know, two hosts and four more people. In there's not even enough microphones to do it. So we did it bit differently. So I had a chat to Jackie and Tim, one of the couples involved, and then we all had a chat to Maggie and Dion separately. We tried to make sure the questions are different. We didn't sort of conspire. between chats. it'll be interesting to see how the two halves come out. So it's kind of like two, two mini podcasts in one coming up after the break. So yeah, so that should be, you know, if you want to learn all about co-conspirators, they still haven't, I think they clock up their 10 years at the end of the year, but it's been one of those, let's just make the most of it. And, you know, beautiful spot, beautiful beers. I still remember the first beers they put out serving them behind the bar. And just the,
Speaker: how dynamic and different it looked when they, when they first hit the scene. Yeah. Delicious. Yeah. Well, that's the things we talked about. I would say, you know, they are one of the most recognizable brands. If you see like the work they did with pocket beagles, ah r RIP, and the brand, not the guy. love but There's a past episode. Clint's still around. um Yeah. No, it is. That's been one of the things, you know, and they've stuck with, you know, every beer being there's something like a a character. And I think it's been pretty cool. And they're, And their brew pub you know is just really sort of growing into itself. We talk about this in my half of the chat where um you know I guess like any good venue, it sort of grows organically. Every time you go in, it's like it feels like something that else has sort of developed there. So we'll yeah go behind the scenes with them after the break. um
Speaker: I guess you know aside from that though, thank you, Luke, for stepping in. Pleasure. you know Big shoes. Tell you what, I only think I just filled them. Maybe half filled them. Yeah, but you know, it nursed me through this this this this Tuesday morning. But yeah, if you enjoy the show and if you could tolerate me dribbling for the last 15 minutes, then please do like and subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen or watch your podcasts. um Feel free to give us any feedback at podcast.craftypint.com and Matt, our producer who's sat here to my left, we'll go through it and pass the past past your requests, your ah your feedback on. But aside from that, um enjoy the show and I'll be back with Luke ah probably like two or three times a week. The the way things are going. But yeah, enjoy the show.
Speaker: Cheers. Cheers.
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Speaker: Tim and Jackie, welcome to the show. Hi, James. Thank you very much for having us. Great to have you in here. very near neighbours to the studio as well, although yeah getting here today has a been a bit traumatic with what's going on outside on Sydney Road. Thankfully we can't hear it here in the studio. I should point out we've got a third guest who may appear at times. Anyone watching on YouTube, Bingo, is making her way around the studio at the same time as well, so hopefully behaves herself. I guess the main reason you guys on here today is it's 10 years of co-conspirators being celebrated this year. So I guess first up, how does it feel to mark a decade of pro-brewing?
Speaker: Well, um it's it's surreal, really. um It's a pretty amazing accomplishment to be celebrating 10 years of ah of the of the brand. um I don't think either of us thought that we would be doing this in our career at all. um ah But ah it's it's been a hell of a ride. Like it's um definitely something that we we should really be celebrating in the current sort of climate of of craft beer. um Not a lot of breweries can say that they've been making beer for 10 years. So yeah, it's it's really a great achievement. yeah you You referenced, you know, didn't imagine you'd be doing this. What were your sort of, all your non-beer careers prior to getting into co-conspirators?
Speaker: um Well, I was working in hospital, so um i was working in hotels for most of my adult career doing sales and marketing roles and events. So that was really my sort of side of the business.
Speaker: Yep. And Tim? Yep. I nursed my trade. Yeah. And wow, didn't see this one coming. But look, it's been an exciting journey. It's been fantastic.
Speaker: It doesn't feel like 10 years to me. It just doesn't feel like that long. we you know ah But I can't can't imagine life without it now. yeah It's such a massive part of our lives. And we talk about it every day. Even on the car ride here. And I mean, do you find when you say, yeah it you know, it doesn't feel like 10 years, do you think part of that could be because of the evolution of Coke and Conspirators? Like it started as one sort of business and then it's evolved into having all these other elements. so I guess it's, I guess, been reinvention along the way as well.
Speaker: Yeah, it's definitely had a few iterations. So we started off being, you gypsy brewers and that was really, um that was a an exciting ride. yeah And got to meet a lot of people, brew in a lot of different places and, know,
Speaker: Yeah, that that that part of the business was practically run over Microsoft Teams. And then COVID came along and we, I still of see that as the sort of the next stage where we went into just a...
Speaker: into canned production all the time a lot of it was out of our garage and um yeah we would have the posty come and pick up a couple hundred cards every day and so yeah that was it and then the the next stage was the pub yeah so yeah it's been yeah that's so it's sort of it's not as not just 10 years doing the same thing Yeah, and I guess the pub, well I guess you know there's there's many things people recognise co-conspirators for, not just the beers, but you know the the look of the brand, and pocket beagles, RIP. But also I guess the brew pub would have given you a real um you know home for people to come to, I guess a way of presenting the face of co-conspirators to to the wider public. yeah i mean it's it was it's still it's still it's still growing and developing i think you know there's always something new to think about or changes um the team's growing um it's it's still it's still not finished like what if it feels like a sort of organic beast you know if i come in every few months whether it's you know part of our origin and we did the event a few weeks ago with our beer club members like it
Speaker: just feels like it's growing into itself, a bit you know a bit gets a bit greener or a bit fuller or a bit warmer. And you were talking about how you know you've got this beer garden out at the back that no one seems to know about. It's like you know that's still something to be activated even though you've been there you know almost five years now. Yeah. yeah it's some is it but There was a there's a ah friend of ours who came in and she remembers it from when our first...
Speaker: opening time and we had no pool table and no plants and you know it was pretty bare when we had to open right like a lot of businesses but they it's it's really sort of grown and it's lot more warmer and you know it's it's and but it's still not finished I mean there's still so much more that we can do to to the space um yeah it's it's great And what were your expectations when you first started having those conversations with Maggie and Dion going, do we do this? Did you think there'd be a venue down the line? There was always a plan for a venue. We didn't know when or how because the initial deal was let's just make some beer and see what happens. And we put in a very small amount of money each, enough money.
Speaker: you know wouldn't matter if we lost it. And had a go, had a great time. it grew and it grew and it grew. And a lot of industry people said, when are you opening a venue? When are you opening a venue? And we're like, oh, don't know if ready yet. becomes a real commitment then. yeah It's a you know, and it was like, we get to go. And then one day we said, all right, are we going to pull the trigger on this? Are we going to do it? And we, yeah, we're doing it.
Speaker: And yeah, and then here we are. um And you mentioned, like you say at the start, it was like, we're going to make a bit of beer and see what happens. um I guess, you know, you the story of you guys coming or meeting at Mary Masha's coming through, you know, this homebrew club is fairly well known. But sort of going right back to the start, you know, you were the homebrew of the two here, Tim. You know, what were the first beers you brewed? What, you know, what you got into right back in the day? Going right, right, right back. So brewing in the backyard. Yeah. um My first beer, now this is a really...
Speaker: Dumb, bad, eh? Feel free to edit this. It was Pascoe Vale Ale. Okay. And I had an old secondhand cake that i cut the top off and a gas burner and did what they call brew in a bag. It was like a giant sock making a cup of tea. And, Dion will probably say that's a terrible description. that But um yeah, it was just homebrew like that. um Really simple, really basic.
Speaker: um But then... Drinkable. Somewhat drinkable. You know, we have one or two bottles left. Oh, wow. At home, sitting on the shelf. I don't want to open them, but yeah, they're sort of just... At least they haven't opened themselves in dramatic fashion. That's something. If you did. And how old would they be now then? When was the first Pasco Vale Ale?
Speaker: Gee, what are we, 2026 now? I reckon they were 2012. twelve yeah Yeah, 2012. Oh, so you were relatively quick from your first homebrew to the first Coke and Spurs beers going out then. Four years, really. It might be even earlier. No, it might be earlier. maybe yeah. we would have been I think it would be more closer than 15 years ago. 15, 20. I'm going to go home. I'm going to text you. Text your phone because I've got the date on the back there. But yeah, those early beers were...
Speaker: were on that and then stepped it up to a Braumeister for the those in the know, who's a German brew kit. And that was a game changer for me. Amazing. Got to do um full all grain mashers at home and Then got stuck into the red ah IPA that um um you all might have heard of. This one sitting on the table here, the butcher.
Speaker: And so it was it would that be, how many of your sort of home recipes have made it to co-conspirators, commercial releases, or are still around today? Then obviously the the butcher, but you know. Butcher. Butcher's still your favourite, I think, isn't it, really? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: So I made a beer called the Redneck Falcon, and then Maggie and Dee, I made another red IPA. called Red Right Hand. And I think those two would influence the butcher. Okay. um And the ah one that I was very passionate about early on was the bean counter, the the coffee stout. Coffee porter.
Speaker: Coffee porter? Yeah. Sorry. You'll hear you' here for the details. Vibe details. yeah And I was very passionate about that. I'm big...
Speaker: Big coffee nerd and big fan of Padre coffee just here in Brunswick. And yeah, talked Dion into buying 40 kilos of coffee off Padre. And it was the first time around, wow, it was in our garage doing this massive cold brew batch of 50 litres of cold brew that then went in, that he then had to take to make into the into the batch. so Yeah. Yeah, that was a big one for me. Love the bean counter. And I'd still argue id I always want to bring it back. Not always are voted for by the rest of the team. Just because the cold brew factor, most likely. Total pain the ass. And how how does it work in terms of deciding what beers are going to make it through? you know good i mean Any of the four you have an idea? Anyone else in the team have an idea? Do you all have power of veto? Is it like the UN? you know How does this thing work? It all depends. It's...
Speaker: It can, um what do we need? um what's Who's really invested in something? If you're really, really invested in something, you can push hard. yeah um Or if it's someone else's passion project, you can do thing. But it's just got to fit in with the brew plan as well now. Yeah. I guess it's been a bit different this year because we've really released a lot of things that we've had in the backlog and we really wanted to do some things that we haven't done for a while. There's a lot of seasonal releases that we always do, like The Butcher is something we do seasonally. Yeah.
Speaker: um But there's things like, you know, the rumble Rumble in the Jungle was something that we haven't done since gabs our very first Gabs entry. like that was We've never done that in Cairns. It was just a keg-only release. It didn't even actually have our full branding on it when we first released it. So it was really fun to bring something like that back and sort of maybe even... change it up a bit bit because we we use a different rum. We use local rum this time around, which we didn't do last time. use Killick. You put nice rum in it last time.
Speaker: Well, we did, but we didn't yeah well we didn't have local rum, which we do now. um But, yeah, it's... ah Yeah, it was a bit different this year and we did a vote earlier in the year and we kind of wanted to see what people really wanted to Did you get the results of the public vote and go, there's no vote? Did you give limited options? no. It was practically free text response. Yeah.
Speaker: I remember doing something similar, helping Holgate do something similar for you, maybe for their 25th anniversary, like which beers you'd like to bring back and the number of votes for like just the biggest or the ones that would have taken two years to barrel out. It's like, guys, a bit of sanity here would be handy. We did have the...
Speaker: What was the one? Berserker? Oh, the Berserker, which was an Aquaville barrel that we got from Carwins that we just possibly could never do because it was literally it was in barrel for like over 12 months. So that's one thing. We also did... he would have had to sail over the equator as well. And the um the other one was a Spy. We did a, it was an Imperial Rye that we was also barrel aged, so um we couldn't do that one. But um a lot of the things that people voted for, we've re-released. So, yeah, yeah. and And you've done some new beers as well. you know how How do you decide you know when you've milestone to mark, what needs to go into a beer to be significant enough to be like a milestone co-conspirators beer?
Speaker: I guess it really depends. Like um this year we haven't really we haven't really released a lot of new beers. And I think the ones that we've done were really special occasion beers. Like the part of origin beers were all new because there was ah there was something that we were celebrating and and and an event attached to it.
Speaker: Obviously the Mortician we've done with Clint and Bright because of that milestone. guess this year has been a little bit different, but we just kind of see what the market's doing and whether we do something, we do a new release or we bring back something that people really liked and, you know, we needed an IPA at this time. Okay. What was something that we did in the past that maybe we want to bring back? Or do you think we should bring something new in? So, So it's really kind of seeing what the market really does. And what is the market doing from your perspective? Because think when had that event, it's different in the brew pub to what it is out in trade. It is, it is. So what are people drinking in trade and what are people drinking over the bar? Many discussions between Maggie and I about what we need to brew. I guess it really...
Speaker: it really just depends because I guess from the brew pub perspective, it is a little bit more easygoing beers. Um,
Speaker: And then like sometimes we we we want to do something a bit crazy and different for wholesale. But we'll always have something. we but we might just have less of that product at the brewery um because it's a little bit slower moving. But we'll always have everything on top that we've made. i think that was one of the big learnings, wasn't it, post-COVID? Once people got used to being at home and realised they had a bit of extra spare money,
Speaker: Everyone's you know beer drinkers started you know buying all manner of crazy thing in tall cans or whatever i think a lot of brewers sort of got into that mindset and then once we go back to the pub again it's like if but no one wants to drink an 8.5 percent pastry salad they just want a pale ale or a lager or a sessional wipe IPA and it's like oh hang on yeah we need to recalibrate. And I guess we we're very we're very seasonal um we we We brew beer with with how the weather's going. ah you know at the moment we have you know maybe five ah dark beers on top of the brewery, ah but then once the weather gets warmer, we might go down to just the one. like it We're very seasonal in what we do. we won't be making... big pastry sours in the middle of winter just so something that we that we do and and we find that we can't really sell them or people in the brew in the brew pub won't won't um won't won't won't want to drink it fair enough and um and in terms of um i guess we're here for the 10th anniversary you know personal milestones or personal highlights over the years in terms of favorite beers or highlight events that you've enjoyed over the over the 10 years
Speaker: There's been a few. I really enjoy doing and organising familiar affairs. I think it's something that um is now at a point where people know about it. And and so just for people who don't know, this is the like an annual festival where you do where you bring in bunch of mates from the the other other brewers come into the brewery. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's some it's always one of my favourite events that we do every year. ah It's getting bigger and bigger every year. And, you know, not to suck up or anything, I do like chuck doing Pine of Origin as well. um But, yeah, it just it's it's really ah like a community dark beer winter festival that we like to do. And we want to be I wanted it to be as successful as something like darker days or or when Boat Rocker do their their their big winter beer releases like that I really wanted to get to that point where you know we might be able to do familiar affairs over a whole weekend you know ah
Speaker: That would be my goal going forward. yeah and And it means the Don has come back for another year, which is always a fantastic barrel-aged imperial stout. So know yeah that's another reason to look forward to that event. Yeah, absolutely. I wonder about yourself, Tim. Any sort of standout beers that you've looking most loved? Looking back over the years, sort of to look at the favourite events and times...
Speaker: I always loved the old school B release. Like, if you go right back into the
Speaker: Shit, what's the name of it? The West Coast we did at Ale House. Launched at Ale House. With Alex. that Oh, the um the henchman. The henchman. um Yeah, just cut all that bit of shit out. So, yeah, to sort of... that that's that's You know, that's going to be the opening line on the on the social post. That's right, I don't care.
Speaker: So i' I'd love the the beer release to say we would put something out on socials and say, we've new beer coming and we'd meet everyone down there and have a few pints of it. That day we were at the ale house before Alex was there to open the door. and yeah And then all of those, there was but there's been lots of those over the years and I think they they just had a great buzz and a great feeling of community and they were really engaging and fun. And in some ways I miss those. Well, it's been interesting to see. I think there have been some people looking to bring some of the concepts back from that. you know I guess you've got the craft beer, Haydale, the explosion during the I'm thinking like Reckless recently doing their same day IPA where they kegged a double IPA at midnight and then they drove to deliver it to you know venues 2,000 kilometres apart across the East Coast. And it's like, I think, you know, there is a growing desire, I think, to bring back some of those concepts that, you know, for whatever reason, maybe people got too busy or COVID got in the way whatever, that might have sort of faded away. And I think, you know, it's always an evolution. I'm sure Go Conspirators has been an evolution for you, as we've talked about earlier. But, um you know, I think some of those things like, well, why don't we do those things anymore? Why don't we bring those things back? And, you know, that's sort of the fun side of things. Yeah. I think...
Speaker: Because we had our own venue, I think we stopped doing that. But we really should, we should really embrace doing that again, like really celebrating new releases. And maybe we should do that. Add it to your list, Jack. sure haven't got enough to be doing already. And sort of, you know, 10 years, what are your roles within Co-Conspirators now? Obviously, I do with you mainly, Jackie, on the event side of things. Yeah, so sort of, I think I call myself the operations manager really. So basically anything outside the brew house would be sort of within the brew pub itself, it sort of sits with me. also look after all the events and the socials and the marketing PR sort of side the business. That's kind my sort of area. Fairly substantial. What about yourself, Tim? I work outside the business, and so I'm very much just in a support role to the other three directors. So, yeah, Dion brews the beer, Maggie sells the beer, Jackie runs the pub. You do quality control. do quality control. Make sure you bring some butcher home for me. And I guess, you looking ahead, you know, in an ideal world, what does the next 10 years of co-conspirators look like? Wow. Um...
Speaker: God, I haven't even thought about it, to be perfectly honest. I mean, we would really just, from my perspective and my side of the business, I just really want the brew pub to really strive. You know, um you know like I said before, really ah it's still evolving um and then there's a lot more...
Speaker: ah things we can do to make the venue better and more successful so that would be my sort of thought thought process it's such an amazing when when you are coming on Pineapple Origin or other big event days it's such a you know vibrant, colourful space when it's pumping as well. You know, you're saying sometimes, you know, when did that event, you you a bigger family area because sometimes that that that space gets so full. it Yeah. wish we could knock that through. Yeah. But, you know, it is such a great space to activate. Absolutely. And, you know there you know, in the plans, in the early plans, we've got, you know, we could go up if we need to. That would be amazing if we can get to that point ah and put some mezzanines in. ah You know, the
Speaker: The kitchen space is always something that we want to do and and and develop. That will probably be the the next big project for us to get that going and have our own food being served from the kitchen. ah that That will be really something we want to to make the space better at. ah Yeah, that's that's what i hope we can do in the next 10 years. yeah know I'd just say you consolidate the brand and...
Speaker: grow the pub, it's still got a lot of space to grow into. It was built that way deliberately. And then, you know, there's, I don't know, the brand's got huge amounts of potential, huge amounts of potential in a lot of different ways that are. It's definitely one of the most recognisable in the country, I think. Thank you. Very kind, James. So, yeah, a lot of opportunities and it's really exciting and it's still fun. That's the best part.
Speaker: It's still fun. Yeah. Yeah, and unexpected that you go down this path, but if you're still having fun after 10 years, then that's a good sign. yeah Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. I mean, small business always really hard, but, you know, i i could never go back to my hotel roles.
Speaker: I think, you know, being my own boss and going in every day is is is a lot of fun and, you know, it's it's something that I really enjoy. yeah Yeah. On that note, congratulations on the 10 years. I you know look forward to seeing the rest of the celebrations over the course the rest of the year. And, um yeah, cheers coming in.
Speaker: Thanks very much. Cheers. Bye.
Speaker: Hey listeners, Will here and I'm joined once again by Sam Bethune, Technical Sales Specialist at Bintani. How are you, Sam? I'm good, mate. It's been a long time since we chatted. It has been so long. It's wonderful to see my old friend again and we're here to talk about another Bintani Brewery Booster. Sam, brewing's never easy.
Speaker: What are some ways though that brewers can simplify their day-to-day life? look We had had a couple of minutes, so wanted to give a couple of things to make your life easier on the brew house. If you're listening in like me and can't taste diacetyl or it's ever in your mind that someone said your beer is butterscotchy or something like that, make sure you throw in some ALDC, alpha-acetolactate decarboxylase, to um bypass that step in the diacetyl pathway and make sure your beer is put through quicker and won't taste of butterscotch.
Speaker: Yeah, right. And you know, if anything's slowing them down on brew day, any issues in the fermenter or anything like that, what are some options? One go-to which still surprises me that ah some people aren't across it are beta-glucanase in your mash. So, see a lot of people using rice hulls for good measure to add in some filtration filtration aids when they're brewing.
Speaker: Rice hulls, very cheap, but have increasingly got more expensive just because it's expensive to ship them around these days. So if you find you're paying too much for some of these sort of products, i'm always consider an enzymatic solution. Beta-glucanase, chuck some in get your lorder done, get home and get on with your life.
Speaker: Oh, wonderful. And, you know, what about if they wanted to use something like Biofine Clear? Is there any key things they must do? I am really glad you asked that, Will. Biofine Clear, look, it's ah it's an important one for Haystability, but it is one that I probably get more questions than any other um in the inbox through about why it isn't working, what's going on with it and that sort of thing. um So a really great product to aid in beer clarity, but really varies between the type of beer you're using it with. Some of the dosage rates on it recommended between 20 and 200 grams a hectolitre or thereabouts. It will vary by which beer you're using it in. So make sure to do a benchtop trial if you haven't before. um If you need any help with that, please reach out to us. And also don't store it in the fridge. I know it's sort of most people for enzymes, other sort of things, put in the fridge, but for this particular one, it'll actually stratify and and ruin the product very quickly. so If any of you have it in the fridge, get it out of there. It won't necessarily mean that it can't be used, but warm it up, give it a good shake before you use. And then on your next batch, yeah, make sure you store it ambient and still give it a good shake before you use it.
Speaker: And Sam, we all know there are some incredible gluten-free brewers in Australia. One of them in particular keeps winning awards overseas. But, you know, if if brewers were looking to reduce the gluten within their beer, what what are their options there? Yeah, a good shout. As with our wife who's a SEALAC, it's an important sort of topic, ah anything around gluten, to certainly make sure any claims you sort of make are backed up by by testing, in particular with ingredients and that sort of thing. But increasingly there's an interest in this sort of space and we've certainly found one product in Brewers Clarex finding a great role as an enzyme that degrades proline and reduces the gluten content of beer in most cases to a level where in any other market they'd be considered gluten-free.
Speaker: One thing to be aware of with that product because it is reducing a protein it can have some haze implications if you're looking to use it in in a hazy beer. But anything that's less hazy and particularly clearer beer styles, a great way to add in and reduce the gluten content of your beer. Many brewers are using it sort of successfully and increasingly being allowed for customers with ah a lower level, I guess, lower level severity to the gluten intolerance to be allowed to drink their beers again with that sort of arm thing. So yeah, one to consider if you're not using it.
Speaker: doing it Doing a great world for people that yeah have that gluten sensitivity. Definitely. Sam, thanks for joining me once again. Thanks, Will. Cheers.
Speaker: Maggie, Dion, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having us, Will. Happy to be here. yeah Excited. It is my pleasure. an Exciting time as well. Ten years of co-conspirators. How's how's it feel? Like it was yesterday. It's gone it's gone pretty quick, hasn't it? like It's flown past, but it's been a it's been a wild ride, so yeah, it's been good.
Speaker: It's probably a couple of chapters, kind of the first five years, contract, gypsy, nomadic brewing, whatever term we're up to these days, and then five years of the brew pub feels like, well, it's been here. It's been busy. It's flown past. It seems crazy that it's 10 years already.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And you're, you always wanted that brew pub as well. So it was, you know, long journey to get there too, but like to have it in Brunswick where, yeah, yeah in your backyard, basically. like Dangerously close to home. Yeah. Kids do think they own it. So the playground is theirs.
Speaker: Cool. And I mean, any like special, you know, ways you want to commemorate it or any, any ways you sort of taking note of, of this period? Yeah, we're sort of going back through our back catalogue and brewing some of the old releases and celebrating 10 years in that way. So we're doing 10 beers, 12 beers? Probably 12 by the end of the year. Yeah. Hopefully. At least 10. at least 10. Yeah.
Speaker: and So every month we try to release um ah beer from the back catalogue or a beer that is special to us. And it's a nice way to sort of look back at the last 10 years and say, here's a couple of fan favourites and re-brew those. So that's that's one way of doing it. And we did, we kind of, sorry, we involved our crowd funders, our original conspirators. They helped us pick some of the 10 beers that we were going to bring back.
Speaker: Maybe some wholesale constraints were put on there and some barrels we weren't able to get again. Those beers were, some of them were once in a lifetime. But yeah, it was fun involving them. And then we've got plenty more planned with some collabs at the end of the year. And Jack probably spoke more about celebrating at the brew pub in December and doing some special events along the way.
Speaker: Yeah, great. and before you got you two were working together um with another couple in the brewery, you were already working together as paramedics, right? Do you think that helped the working relationship? The fact that... Did you guys meet on the job, first of all?
Speaker: ah We went to uni together. Okay, yeah. Yeah, even before we were qualified paramedics, we we knew each other and sort of went through university together and then... um we we didn't actually have too many and and we still haven't had too many shifts together. Just a handful. Doing the same shifts.
Speaker: um job Is that how they schedule it or that's it's just pure coincidence basically? It's luck of the draw. Yeah. Yeah, yeah just pure luck of the draw. I think we worked we picked an overtime Christmas day shift together. to I did a shift swap and you came and worked it with me and it was kind of Seamless. Sometimes we work together and it's been like, okay, let's have some time. You can go and do your thing for a while, I'll do mine. And then some shifts were just like, everything clicked.
Speaker: it guess we know each other a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. is Is it like radically different then to being in a business together and with other people or do you think you sort of bring skills across and...
Speaker: ah and I think there there are some transferable skills, but it is it is a completely different job. It's it's ah yeah very, very different to what we do in ambulance. ah yeah Less so for me. I just talk to people. Yeah. Okay. No, I think communication is big part of ambulance and what I do in the business with wholesale sales is communication, talking to customers, talking to venue owners and things like that. So I hopefully some can bring some communication skills to the job.
Speaker: Definitely. And also knowing the fastest route between A to B and how to swerve traffic and all those kind of things. You're out on that road. It's so frustrating. I don't have lights and sirens in my own car. running Running red lights and parking wherever you want. You could get so many deliveries done in an ambulance. It would be so good.
Speaker: Cool. Yeah. And um so, yeah, Maggie, you've looked after sales for a long time, right? And Dion, you're very much overseeing the brewery, but you were both brewers before starting Co-Conspirators. Like, how do you sort of work that division of labour out?
Speaker: Dion was always a better brewer. Yeah. I mean, we we sort of did homebrewing at home. And I think it's ah it's a fairly common path for people to go down is do homebrewing, brewing learn some of the skills and learn some of the science behind it. And then um I think a lot of homebrewers sort of dream to um take it the next step.
Speaker: And we sort of homebrewed at home for a while and was always the two of us doing it. but's um Not much OH&S. No, no. was It was pretty loose some days. um Yeah, it was pretty loose some days.
Speaker: um But yeah, we sort of um started the business and I slipped into the the brewing role. Yeah. I think, uh, Tim and Jackie sort of had particular roles and i don't know if you always wanted to do do sales, but you though you're the best person for it. So that's that's where you ended up.
Speaker: All the other jobs were taken. You can't anything else to do sales. No, I had like ADHD obsession with brewing. I'd just learn about one part and not about the rest. So I was never going to be the brewer. I did not have the background and actual learning that Dion had done. Yeah. You're not knocking on the door going and being like,
Speaker: Dion and Nigel, who's your brewer, are like, what you know why aren't you using this recipe I came up with 15 years ago? I'm like, guys, I'm telling you, brown owls, they'll sell. Let's bring back brute IPAs. No, never.
Speaker: ah No, I throw in some unrequested feedback and advice, but I'm not sure how far it makes it into the process. Cool. And did one of you start home brewing for the other or was it very much a shared journey? No, we sort of started the craft beer journey together and I think we started with a real passion for craft beer and drank beer together and started home brewing together. And it was always the two of us doing it, which was a fun activity. I always say an adult hobby that just went too far kind of thing.
Speaker: ah Were there any particular, like was it like a trip the two of you were on together or anything like that that really sparked if you can remember back to to those days? think we just used to, we lived near McCoppins in Abbotsford and used to just go and scour the shelves and look for different styles. And i don't know, for me, I remember like having a Scotch at the Fox Hotel from, God, it's going to annoy me, there an Adelaide brewery that doesn't even exist anymore. Big shed maybe? No, smaller.
Speaker: um And yeah, I was just blown away by what a beer it could taste like. Yeah, just went down that path exploring kind of Canadian beers and American beers and. Yeah, Belgians and, you know, we sort of tried something different every time we went to the shops and really sort of try to learn beer. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And, um, you obviously took that into Mary Mashes, right? Which for those outside of Melbourne is quite a, I mean, it's such a strong community. It's, it's a really significant home brewing group. So must've been great to like sort of share in that with other people.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. it was ah that really well Everyone was really welcoming from the start and it was just great to, I guess, hang out with people that were as obsessed with beer as we were at that stage. and Not many of our friends were. so um And yeah, I think you came in with a lot of brewing knowledge. You'd already been doing a lot of research, but you definitely helped along the way and having your friends are always pretty grateful and pretty positive about free beer. So having some people that are willing to be critical was good.
Speaker: Yeah. And was there a moment where you sort of knew like, all right, let's, let's step this up a little bit or you just sort of have the idea come about?
Speaker: Yeah, it was ah it sort of through the Miramash's and through winning one of the IPA comps, we had an opportunity. You guys are sponsors of it. Well, yeah. and yeah yeah You grew them professionally now. Yeah, that's right. But it was at that comp that we did fairly well.
Speaker: And one of the winning prizes was to re-brew our recipe on a commercial scale. And I think after doing that, we sort had the taste for it and it like, it is different, but it's sort of very similar. And it'd be nice to do this on a bigger level and having that beer being released and watching people drink that beer and... Go back and pay money to drink it again. No, I know. That was pretty cool. But it was a pretty cool experience and I think we had the taste for it then and sort of met up with Tim and Jackie they were looking at doing something similar. We sort of teamed up and took the next step together.
Speaker: Yeah, right. And the first beer, big IPA, big bold IPA, right? Hangman. Yep. Yep. There was some hangovers after the launch of that, to be honest. Yeah, that was a 6.8% IPA, West Coast IPA. That was super dry, pretty drinkable. And a lot of our non-craft beer drinking friends,
Speaker: I had a few and didn't realize how strong it was and it got pretty loose pretty quickly. So it was ah as ah as a fun release. But I think for us that was about just putting out a beer that we felt reflected us and what we would like to drink and what we want to want to brew.
Speaker: So that was a, instead of starting with ah with a pale ale, the way a lot of people would, we like like hops. We're going to make something big. Yeah. Let's not be ashamed about that. We won, we won the Merry Masters IPA competition. We know what we're doing. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Cool. And when, um you know, did you have a long list of recipes as well? You're like, we know exactly what a Coke and Spirit beer will look like, or I guess it's always changed over the years, right? it it's It's evolved a lot. And and I think from homebrewing, you sort have a couple of recipes that you sort of tweak and try and modify and and and perfect.
Speaker: And then you quickly realise scaling it up to a bigger level, it doesn't always translate and and the beer turns out slightly different. And costs a lot more to make than... Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to think about our spreadsheet now, right? Yeah, that's right. So I think when we when first started, it was um um trying to perfect the recipe on a homebrew level and then scaling it up.
Speaker: And then after a while, you're comfortable. I think we sort of know what we're doing here and we're just... pull the trigger and make it, make it the way it's, it's going to work. So, yeah, but, but beers have, beers have always evolved. So, um, I remember sort of fairly early on thinking to myself, we, we're never going to make a sweet IPA and ah IPAs need to be bone dry. And then it wasn't too long after we started making oat cream IPAs and, uh, Nipah sort of became popular and it's all about not actually finishing bone dry. It's about having that body and mouthful and sweetness. So but beers beers have definitely evolved. And I think opening the brew pub has changed what we do as well.
Speaker: I think before that we did sort of a lot of really big, big ABV beers. A lot of sort of big big IPAs really as was but was a mainstay for a while.
Speaker: um But as soon as you open the brew pipe, you realize people actually need an easy drinking beer and you need a low elk option as well. So it's it's it's allowed us to brew different styles and different sort low ABV styles as well. And instead of just doing big hoppy beers, we're actually doing a lot of more interesting traditional beers as well. Something like our Czech Pilsner. We would have never released that early days, whereas at the Brew Pub it does quite well. And it's ah it's ah it's a cracker beer.
Speaker: um But that's the kind of beer we wouldn't have done without the Brew Pub, I don't think. Yeah. Definitely. I was just going to say, sometimes it can be very different markets making beers for the brew pub and making beer for wholesale. You need to have lower ABV, more sessionable styles in a setting where people are sitting to drink for a while, but sometimes in wholesale, it's like they want the big punchy. higher ABV, more fun. Sometimes I call big dumb beers that we've been releasing. There's still an audience for that though, right? People love those kind of beers. Yeah, I think probably less of them, but they still love them.
Speaker: Cool. And do the two of you ever homebrew still anymore or? just Just don't have the time these days. We've had kids since. Yeah. yeah We sold our homebrew equipment at the at the brew pub during the build and they actually got broken into and some of that was stolen. We never replaced it and that was that was sort of the end of the homebrewing. Someone else made that decision for us. yeah I'm sure you had a great homebrew set up, but it can't have been worth that much compared to the six-minute total value as well. No, no.
Speaker: It made some good beers there. And um how have you found that balancing, you know, starting a family while working in the brewery? but I think both you are still on the road as paramedics as well occasionally. Like, how do you...
Speaker: i i don't I've got one job and I don't have enough time in the day. yeah Do everything at 25%. It is hard. I don't understand how couples can run a brewery. like It does take the four of us doing our different roles to keep keep the company, keep the brewery, keep the brew pub functioning. um Yeah, i I don't know how. It's nice to switch off different parts of your brain and use them, i.e. with still doing a bit of paramedics. It's a whole different side of my brain that I get to use, which is fun. It's not running a small business.
Speaker: Clock on, clock off, job's done. Brewery never switches off kind of thing. So that is there's different benefits and negatives to that. But I don't know. I think that's true. I honestly don't know. We're just getting it done. It gets busy, but I think he'd you you slowly get used to adding an extra layer. So I think anyone who has kids would say that's ah that's a pretty big big step, but but you get used to that. And that's sort of an extra layer of stress as well as working. And then you sort of add another layer. And you just sort of slowly a build build these layers of um challenges. There you go. That's a nice way to put it. yeah it's it's ah It's a juggle, but it's ah it it sort of works. Yeah.
Speaker: I guess other people are doing it to a degree, so you've got to be able to. Yeah, it's not unique what we're doing. So it's ah it's it's busy, but that's that's what it is. Yeah, cool. And what about highlights from over the years? Any any standout moments or beers or anything like that?
Speaker: I think a big one was kind of opening the brew pub. was obviously a huge, big moment, getting finding a building, getting the lease, the process of going through the build and finishing it and then actually making beers there, brewing it brewing there brewing beers that took home awards. We had we'd dabbled in the awards beforehand, but as a contract brewer, there's only so much you can change about people's processes. But then doing it for ourselves, knowing that beer was from conception to glass, all yours kind of thing.
Speaker: Opening the brew pub, putting the awards, you know. There's personal stuff as well, but we yeah don't need to hear all them listed. de Definitely openly opening the brew pub a big change in the business and that's where it changed from, i wouldn't say a hobby, but something we did on the side to something that became a full-time job. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it sort of became a lot more complex and it's sort of grown into a bit of a beast. So it's it's ah that was that was a big milestone for us, I think, opening the brew pub. um And and ah and i agree, the awards um and getting getting the awards for beers that we brewed ourselves and managed ourselves was was was nice. It was so that's pretty good.
Speaker: and think we are we don't often actually sit back and enjoy and take a moment to appreciate it so hopefully at the five-year mark and the 10-year mark we can the celebration this year because i think it is yeah you've got to do that as well to see how far you've come and look forward to what you can do next yeah definitely and um you know you you opened the brew pub i'm sure it was stressful during covet and all of that but looking back i mean you've You needed that home, right? Considering where the market's gone and and how important hospitality is for a venue. I'm sure you already always knew that, but it's hard to see how people could exist just on wholesale yeah alone in the current market. Absolutely. i
Speaker: Every time you read about a new kind of brand opening or things like that without a home and without that thing, you go, geez, it's tough out there. Like, good luck to you. Have a good beer, have a good product. But absolutely. I think we' we're even a bit late with opening. Would have been...
Speaker: Timing-wise with everything that happened in Melbourne, I think we weren't ready to open, we hadn't hired staff, so there were some benefits that we were building during the lockdowns. We were still paying rent, but there weren't all the other expenses kind of thing as well. so I think we had a relatively, i'd I'd call it lucky or a silver lining to our timeline. Other people that were ready to open when lockdown started it was a horrible situation for them. But yeah, I i think having a home, having somewhere where you show people your brand, what you're about, and now we can finally... Like we were always big on collaboration, but now we can finally bring people to our home, look after them for the day, really collaborate on a beer from conception. You're there for the brew day, come back for package day, help us get it out there. Like it is, it's a wonderful to have a home to bring people to.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. And, you know, next 10 years, what what are you looking forward to or what are your hopes and dreams? I think we've all got goals for what we want the venue to be and be doing and what we want the beers to be doing. There are four personalities, so we've got to align those all up. But I think for the most part, kind of getting a kitchen built, um creating a business in the current market and current world that is sustainable long term.
Speaker: and kind of is keeping itself above above water, going along, um making some great beers along the way, cementing those relationships and continuing to just take our community along with us.
Speaker: I think that's a big part of it for me, getting the venue finished with a kitchen as well. Yeah. Your turn. Yeah. and Whatever she said. That was was as as very well put. I like it.
Speaker: Maggie, Dion, thanks for joining me. Thanks thanks for having Thanks having us. Always a pleasure, Will. Thank you. Cheers. The Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by me, Matt Hoffman.
Speaker: For all partnership inquiries, please reach out to Craig Williams at craig at craftypint.com. To keep up to date with everything in Australian craft beer, head to www.craftypint.com.
Speaker: Thank you.
