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43 Lorella Belli | Literary Agent
251 Plays4 years ago
YA/Adult literary agent and one of the RNA's nominees for agent of the year 2021, Lorella Belli, of the Lorella Belli Literary Agency, shares her experience of the publishing industry through lockdown, how she found her footing as an agent and what it takes to set up an agency. A brilliant insight for anyone looking to break into the publishing industry in any capacity.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:02
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:03
Speaker
These are your notes about what we're going to say.
00:00:06
Speaker
What does it say?
00:00:06
Speaker
I thought it would be a good... I didn't even get the idea.
00:00:12
Speaker
Maybe I can just ask you the question.
00:00:16
Speaker
It's going well.
00:00:16
Speaker
It's going really well.
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome back to this week's episode of the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:00:25
Speaker
As always, I'm Jamie and joining me today is the last of the RNA's Agent of the Year finalists, Lorella Belli.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hi, welcome to the show, Lorella.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hi, Jamie.
00:00:37
Speaker
Thank you very much for having me.
00:00:39
Speaker
Hello, everyone.
00:00:39
Speaker
Such a
Agency Recognition and Representation
00:00:40
Speaker
pleasure.
00:00:40
Speaker
Congratulations on being nominated for this very prestigious and competitive category.
00:00:46
Speaker
How does it feel to be getting such wonderful recognition for your work?
00:00:51
Speaker
It's been great.
00:00:52
Speaker
A surprise.
00:00:54
Speaker
I wasn't expecting it.
00:00:55
Speaker
So it was even nicer because of that.
00:00:59
Speaker
I've been a member for a very long time and the agency has been members.
00:01:02
Speaker
We represent so many authors of romance, women's fiction in general, that, yes, it was just great to see that recognised.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's excellent.
00:01:14
Speaker
And did it feel like an especially exciting and sort of special year for you?
Agency Success During the Pandemic
00:01:23
Speaker
To be perfectly honest, I don't think we did anything kind of slightly different this year.
00:01:30
Speaker
You're just always wonderful.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yes, of course.
00:01:34
Speaker
No, but genuinely, genuinely, I mean, we've been representing, you know, a lot.
00:01:41
Speaker
women's fiction, romances, contemporary all types for a long time.
00:01:47
Speaker
So yes, some of our authors have been particularly successful over the years.
00:01:54
Speaker
I didn't think that this year was a particular standout year in that sense.
00:01:58
Speaker
Yes, the agency has been great.
00:02:00
Speaker
We had our best year.
00:02:02
Speaker
Despite the pandemic, that was our best year in terms of
00:02:06
Speaker
you know, how the agency went in general.
00:02:09
Speaker
So I guess everything contributed to it.
00:02:11
Speaker
So yes, but it was a really nice thing to have, especially after everything we've been through in the last, you know, year and a half, I would say.
00:02:19
Speaker
So that was a nice thing to get.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess just the fact that
00:02:27
Speaker
even if you maintain the same standard that you were at before during this kind of crazy last couple of years, that's, you know, an achievement in itself.
Adapting to Remote Work
00:02:36
Speaker
Did you find you had to adapt and do very different things in the wake of lockdown and the pandemic?
00:02:42
Speaker
Uh, yes, I, I, we did just, I guess, like everybody really, uh, publishing and not publishing, but yes, I mean, the, the, the, the first thing would be, uh, clearly working remotely.
00:02:53
Speaker
That was something that we were doing every now and then, but not as a,
00:02:58
Speaker
know, just a way of working for such a long time.
00:03:02
Speaker
And we actually, we, I think we did the lockdown here in the UK was at the end of March, but I am Italian.
00:03:11
Speaker
So the situation there was really bad earlier in the year.
00:03:15
Speaker
So to me, when I was hearing, you know, colleagues and friends and family in Italy telling me what was happening,
00:03:22
Speaker
I just thought it was a matter of time.
00:03:24
Speaker
So we actually started working remotely.
00:03:27
Speaker
It was about two and a half weeks before the lockdown actually started here.
00:03:31
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:03:32
Speaker
So we kind of, by the time that happened, we were already set up, all of us to be able to work remotely.
00:03:38
Speaker
So that was an adjustment for, you know, for everyone, I guess.
00:03:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:45
Speaker
Now that we're somewhat closer to what the way things used to be,
00:03:51
Speaker
Do you think there's anything that you've kind of taken on during lockdown, during working remotely, that you're going to continue doing?
00:04:00
Speaker
Yes, I would say there were certain practices, work practices that I think were not that bad.
00:04:08
Speaker
Again, the ability to work remotely.
00:04:11
Speaker
You know, I was one of those people that I quite like to be in the office myself.
00:04:15
Speaker
So I really thought certain things would be done best in the office for some reason.
00:04:22
Speaker
And I've actually discovered that that's not necessarily the case.
00:04:26
Speaker
I think if it's only, say, you or your agency doing that is one thing, but the old world was doing it.
00:04:32
Speaker
But where we saw things that we will definitely, that has changed and I don't think we're going back to is, for example, the use to process contracts.
00:04:41
Speaker
We do a lot with foreign publishers.
00:04:44
Speaker
We kind of specialize in translation rights at the agency.
00:04:47
Speaker
So we work with different countries in the world and in some countries, publishers prefer to have still hard copies of contracts, for example, instead of accepting a electronic signature.
00:04:58
Speaker
So all of a sudden, now we're very, very few exceptions.
00:05:02
Speaker
Everyone is accepting digital copies of documents, which is fantastic because we kind of save time and money going to post office contracts.
00:05:13
Speaker
reduces the time that it takes to do things.
00:05:15
Speaker
So that's actually really good.
00:05:18
Speaker
Same thing with tax forms, anything like that, you know, we need to.
00:05:22
Speaker
So certain things have really changed and I don't think we'll definitely go back.
00:05:27
Speaker
Like everybody else, we've discovered, you know, the power of...
00:05:32
Speaker
zoom and skype and all that as well um so you know for book for you know for london book fair frank two frankfurt's actually now and one london book fair we conducted all the meetings kind of online and we saw that there could be things like for example we prepared all these videos or presentations and we could um you know we could do that while in person as much as that
00:05:54
Speaker
nicer and preferable, but you couldn't really do the same.
00:06:00
Speaker
Plus you could fit in a lot more meeting than you would in five days in Frankfurt, no matter how packed your schedule is, or three days in London.
00:06:07
Speaker
So, you know, certain things I think we will carry on doing even after all this is kind of back to normal, if it's finished and we're back to normal.
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, it's sort of amazing how being pushed out of your comfort zone, you are forced to find new things or new ways to do things that might be better than they were before.
00:06:28
Speaker
Yes, I would say definitely that was a lesson.
00:06:32
Speaker
And yes, I think it really applied to all aspects of the business, whether submissions,
00:06:41
Speaker
Before the pandemic, we were still receiving, for example, several submissions by post.
00:06:47
Speaker
So people were still sending manuscripts that way.
00:06:51
Speaker
We've hardly any since then by post, which is good.
00:06:55
Speaker
It's good for all sorts of reasons.
00:06:58
Speaker
And I think people are just getting used to just being more online in general, submitting that way.
00:07:07
Speaker
confident sending their books, their manuscripts by attachment.
00:07:11
Speaker
Um, in the past, that's not always been the case.
00:07:14
Speaker
Some people prefer to, to, you know, to send a, they, they, I just remember the days where people would send their manuscript and then they, um, uh, they had all these legal notices, uh, about copyright and stuff like that, which they were not necessarily.
00:07:29
Speaker
So that that's all gone.
00:07:31
Speaker
So I guess, um, yeah, every, every aspect I can think of, frankly.
Lorella's Passion and Career Path
00:07:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:37
Speaker
Well, let's dial it back a bit, talk about you.
00:07:40
Speaker
You've been in the publishing industry for quite a long time, quite a few years now.
00:07:46
Speaker
Am I right in thinking that you knew very early that you wanted to work in publishing?
00:07:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yes, I've always been really curious and very, really passionate about books and people.
00:08:01
Speaker
So because of that, I've always looked at, you know, even when I was a teenager, profession where I could do both.
00:08:08
Speaker
I was clear I loved books.
00:08:10
Speaker
I love other cultures.
00:08:11
Speaker
I love languages.
00:08:13
Speaker
I studied literature, but I'm quite curious.
00:08:16
Speaker
So I always thought, what kind of job can I do?
00:08:19
Speaker
I can combine these two things.
00:08:21
Speaker
And when I read for the very first time about literary agents, I just found my calling and I knew that's what...
00:08:30
Speaker
what I wanted to do.
00:08:31
Speaker
And then I started researching more and I actually ended up in my last year at uni, I decided to, I actually wrote my dissertation at History Literary Agency.
00:08:40
Speaker
So I was getting all the theory and yeah, so I knew that what I wanted to do.
00:08:46
Speaker
And I think my, that book eventually became a book and was, the title was A Literary Agent as Businessman and as Promoter of Literature, which I still think are the two core functions an agent has.
00:09:00
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:09:01
Speaker
Cause it's interesting how many people sort of don't realize that a literary agent is a thing.
00:09:07
Speaker
And then they suddenly say, oh, that's a thing.
00:09:10
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:09:10
Speaker
And then you want to do it.
00:09:11
Speaker
And that's a lot of agents that I've spoken to found that, but you, you, you obviously learned that at some point, but it sounds like you were studying the profession for a long time.
00:09:20
Speaker
Did you ever want to write?
00:09:22
Speaker
Did you ever thought about being an author yourself?
00:09:24
Speaker
No.
00:09:26
Speaker
I've written some non-fiction, but not books, just pieces, pieces of journalism and things like that.
00:09:32
Speaker
And that, you know, that book became, you know, kind of was published, but not, no, I don't think, I mean, if you're referring even to fiction, no, I don't know if I have the ability.
00:09:45
Speaker
I don't think that would ever be put to the test.
00:09:47
Speaker
But I definitely don't have, I think, the drive and the passion to do that.
00:09:51
Speaker
It takes not just skill, but actually you really want to be a writer.
00:09:57
Speaker
You really have to, you feel, you need to have something that you genuinely want to share and say.
00:10:02
Speaker
And I never had that.
00:10:04
Speaker
I don't know, maybe I didn't have much to say.
00:10:06
Speaker
I don't know.
00:10:06
Speaker
Well, actually, I can be very opinionated, so I have a lot to say.
00:10:09
Speaker
But I don't think, no, no, writing has never been...
00:10:13
Speaker
something that I thought of as a possible profession or even something that I would do in my spare time.
00:10:19
Speaker
Just, yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
Strictly the business side of things.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yes, I enjoy reading other people's work, working creatively with authors.
00:10:31
Speaker
I love that.
00:10:33
Speaker
But yes, the idea of staying hours maybe on my own, writing and researching, that I don't think is what I wanted to do.
00:10:48
Speaker
But I do see loads of people, other agents do and editors do.
00:10:53
Speaker
And I'm in awe.
00:10:54
Speaker
I mean, already writing a book is such a big commitment.
00:10:57
Speaker
And I'm thinking, you know, because I know how much effort and work involves being an agent or being an editor.
00:11:05
Speaker
And, you know, that they can actually find the time to do that.
00:11:09
Speaker
I think it's just really fantastic.
00:11:11
Speaker
You know, everyone can do that.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's the same for so many writers, right?
00:11:16
Speaker
Like so many writers work full time and you know that someone sort of has the passion and the drive to be a writer if they can fit writing a novel around, you know, full time, full time work.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:29
Speaker
But you need to want it.
00:11:30
Speaker
You really need, it needs to be something that you, you, you know, you have to do.
00:11:35
Speaker
Uh, and in that case, you just work around all, uh, anything else in your life or the other, you know, other people might suffer, maybe your family, maybe your friends or maybe, you know, I don't know, uh, sometimes, but you know, if that's something that, um, you know, that you should pursue it, like anything, I really think anything in your life, you should really pursue it.
00:11:53
Speaker
Um, uh, whether it's writing or, uh, yeah, anything really.
00:11:57
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:11:58
Speaker
So you studied the business and wrote that dissertation at university in Italy, right?
00:12:05
Speaker
Yes, I studied in Venice and so I did it.
00:12:09
Speaker
So my last year I went to Warwick University and I did Renaissance Theatre, as you do.
00:12:16
Speaker
It was great.
00:12:19
Speaker
But I mean, the real reason behind that is that
00:12:23
Speaker
which actually I'll tell you how, the very first time I heard about agencies.
00:12:28
Speaker
At the time I was supposed to write something about, do a dissertation on Renaissance theatre.
00:12:34
Speaker
I just wanted to write something about that.
00:12:37
Speaker
I was passionate about the time I had applied to Warwick for scholarship on that topic.
00:12:44
Speaker
That's what I wanted to do.
00:12:45
Speaker
But then my supervisor at the time that secretly was writing a thriller,
00:12:50
Speaker
actually gave me one of these assignments.
00:12:52
Speaker
Why could you find out who, you know, who a literary agent that specializes in?
00:12:56
Speaker
I said, what?
00:12:57
Speaker
What do they do?
00:12:59
Speaker
And then that now I started looking into it.
00:13:02
Speaker
And then it takes me back to the story I was telling you earlier.
00:13:04
Speaker
So that's why I learned about agents.
00:13:05
Speaker
So it was actually my supervisor at the time that
00:13:08
Speaker
But by then I already applied to work university.
00:13:11
Speaker
So I was going there to start, which was fantastic because I was there and I came, you know, I was able to actually do, because the profession really started in London, not necessarily literary, it's other type of ages, but it's the same kind of business model, if you want.
00:13:27
Speaker
But that enabled me to come to London and speak to loads of agents at the time.
00:13:32
Speaker
I was a student, so people were very happy to talk to me about all sorts of things.
00:13:37
Speaker
So I met pretty much most agents in London at the time.
00:13:41
Speaker
We're talking about now about 30, 28, 28, 29 years ago.
00:13:47
Speaker
So it was a different publishing, it was very different.
00:13:50
Speaker
And I met some really, truly amazing agents that then when I...
00:13:56
Speaker
that made me even more convinced I wanted to be an agent, you know, especially some of them, not, but some I definitely said, yes, that's what I want to do.
00:14:04
Speaker
Um, yeah, so that, that was my journey.
00:14:07
Speaker
And then when I finished basically at uni, I never worked in Italy.
00:14:10
Speaker
So I came straight to London and happy with my dissertation.
00:14:14
Speaker
I was just going around and say, Oh, by the way, this is me.
00:14:16
Speaker
I've actually, you know, I've written this thing and people said, Oh, wow.
00:14:19
Speaker
What do you get all this information?
00:14:20
Speaker
There's nothing written about agents.
00:14:22
Speaker
Where'd you find that?
00:14:22
Speaker
Uh, so that's how it started.
00:14:25
Speaker
Did you work at any agencies or did you go straight into setting up your own
Starting Her Own Agency
00:14:30
Speaker
agency?
00:14:30
Speaker
No, I did work experience.
00:14:32
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:14:32
Speaker
Gosh, no.
00:14:33
Speaker
I think only a map, not even me at the time.
00:14:35
Speaker
I would have gone straight into that.
00:14:37
Speaker
I don't know.
00:14:39
Speaker
No, I did work experience and intern with different agencies, but I also wanted to work for publishers because I thought if we are selling to publishers, I really wanted to understand exactly what
00:14:50
Speaker
how it works in a publishing house.
00:14:52
Speaker
And so I thought, I mean, with my languages and I guess my personality, probably the easiest way to get in was in rights, selling rights in the rights department.
00:15:02
Speaker
So you could deal with from publishers and learn about contracts, about negotiating and selling, which I love doing.
00:15:10
Speaker
So, yes, so I worked at other agencies and then I worked publishers over at Hopper Collins and at Colvin Octopus doing illustrated books because I was really, I loved cooking and cookery books.
00:15:24
Speaker
And so it was fantastic and really great experience.
00:15:28
Speaker
But then I, you know, I still wanted to be an agent.
00:15:31
Speaker
And so I joined an agency where one of the agents there left
00:15:35
Speaker
to set up our own agency.
00:15:37
Speaker
So they were looking for somebody kind of young to start at least from scratch.
00:15:41
Speaker
So that's how it started for me.
00:15:43
Speaker
So I stayed there for about four, four and a half years or something like that.
00:15:48
Speaker
And then it was the time that, you know, I knew that sooner or later I wanted to have my own agency.
00:15:52
Speaker
So at that point, I talked to my authors because they were all first time authors, people that they started, you know, they kind of published an interview with me.
00:16:01
Speaker
And so I talked to them and they said, well, if you leave me wherever you go, we come here with you.
00:16:05
Speaker
So that made my decision kind of easier.
00:16:08
Speaker
Um, and then there have been some amazing agents that I met that were encouraging one.
00:16:13
Speaker
I just mentioned one, but Dali Anderson, which I love him very dearly.
00:16:17
Speaker
He's always been kind of a mentor and hugely successful, successful.
00:16:21
Speaker
And he's still today the same person that I met all these years ago.
00:16:25
Speaker
That's nice.
00:16:26
Speaker
Um, so yes, yes, he's, um, he's absolutely fantastic.
00:16:30
Speaker
And, um,
00:16:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:31
Speaker
So I remember calling him and I said, well, I'm thinking of doing that.
00:16:34
Speaker
And he just said, well, as you remember the first time you came to see me and I think you should be doing it.
00:16:40
Speaker
So combined to, you know, my own doing that and loads of other people.
00:16:45
Speaker
I'm just mentioning about the million people.
00:16:48
Speaker
So then that happened.
00:16:49
Speaker
That was 2002.
00:16:52
Speaker
And next year we'll be celebrating the agency 20th anniversary, which is very exciting.
00:16:57
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:16:58
Speaker
That'd be great.
00:16:59
Speaker
It sounds like you have a very pragmatic approach to life and work.
00:17:05
Speaker
You sort of got every experience you could surrounding being an agent from all the angles.
00:17:11
Speaker
Did you find that working for a publisher has given you a really good insight now that you sort of are an agent with your own agency and stuff?
00:17:20
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:17:22
Speaker
I enjoyed the experience.
00:17:23
Speaker
I was very, really, literally very curious.
00:17:26
Speaker
But above all, I always thought, you know, when you're negotiating with somebody, up to a point when they say no, is it no because they can't do it or because they don't want to do it?
00:17:37
Speaker
And I remember very clearly when...
00:17:41
Speaker
When I left, I won't mention which publisher, but, you know, I left the job as a publisher and then I started as an agent and I took on this project.
00:17:49
Speaker
And one of my, actually, one of my, because I enjoy working on contracts.
00:17:54
Speaker
So I became, although I, you know, they are people to do contracts, but they wanted to, you know,
00:18:00
Speaker
different imprints try to have some kind of coordinating between the different imprints.
00:18:04
Speaker
And I volunteered for that task.
00:18:07
Speaker
So I was very familiar with what the contract that publisher gave authors.
00:18:13
Speaker
And one of the very first books I actually took on as an agent and sold was actually to that company.
00:18:18
Speaker
So when it came to negotiating the contract was actually very interesting.
00:18:21
Speaker
Because I was asking for certain things and then my counterpart, which hadn't been there for very long, said, oh, no, we can't do that.
00:18:29
Speaker
And he said, yes, you can.
00:18:30
Speaker
You've done it for that water and that water and that water.
00:18:32
Speaker
So that was a very practical example of how things can be released.
00:18:38
Speaker
I think genuinely sometimes certain things are hard to do.
00:18:42
Speaker
And then when you're initiating people, the editor will explain why or even the contract department will say,
00:18:48
Speaker
But there are certain things that are definitely on the table.
00:18:51
Speaker
And I think if you, you know, if you kind of have your argument on why, why are you asking for that and, and it's been proved that it is possible, then, you know, it should work one way or the other.
00:19:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:04
Speaker
No, that sounds like, it sounds like something that would be so useful when you're sitting on the other side of the table as an agent with sort of pitching an author.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:13
Speaker
And if you know, for example, I just remember all meetings,
00:19:16
Speaker
Sometimes an editor would come and pitch their project and then somebody from sales would kill it because they would think it would sell enough copies.
00:19:23
Speaker
So one of the things I'm always very wary when we're pitching other books is trying to look at it from different points of view, what it will be like when that project is being presented at the editorial level or then at acquisition meetings where there's people from that.
00:19:39
Speaker
from marketing, from the different departments of a publishing house.
00:19:44
Speaker
So everyone will say their piece about that.
00:19:48
Speaker
So, you know, pitching is always good to think of all these aspects as well.
00:19:53
Speaker
So that basically you're making the life of the editor easier.
00:19:55
Speaker
If you can't preempt any questions, one of the colleagues might ask when you're not there to answer it yourself.
00:20:01
Speaker
So we should enable the editor to have all the information they have to make the case for the book.
00:20:05
Speaker
That's good.
00:20:06
Speaker
So I guess that was very valuable, just like when you decided on covers of books as well, the conversations that go on in publishing house to decide why to go that way or the other.
00:20:19
Speaker
And yeah, that's another example of where that was very helpful.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yes.
00:20:25
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds almost like being a lawyer and you're just treating the book as the sort of defendant and you need to be ready for all of the cross-examination that the publisher is going to do to you.
00:20:37
Speaker
Well, I think it's, I mean, the thing is that comes a bit later in a way, not from a sales point of view, but really it is passion.
00:20:46
Speaker
I mean, the editor, they will never take that book to their editorial meeting in the first place, unless they really believe in the book, they are excited about it.
00:20:54
Speaker
So it's just then you have to have the reality check of, okay, well, we love this, but how many copies are we going to sell of it?
00:21:01
Speaker
So you need to do all that.
00:21:02
Speaker
And I guess as agents, the more you can provide that kind of information or support, you know, give any stats or data that you might have, the better the person can make a more informed decision.
00:21:17
Speaker
So that's helpful.
00:21:19
Speaker
But I would say everything really starts with impassion, whether you have an agent, when you're taking on an author, it's same thing with the editor.
00:21:26
Speaker
They really need to be excited about the book.
00:21:28
Speaker
Otherwise, you know,
00:21:29
Speaker
all the rest doesn't really matter really because it won't get to that stage.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:34
Speaker
Of course.
00:21:35
Speaker
Of course.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:36
Speaker
There need to, there's no point jumping ahead steps.
00:21:38
Speaker
You haven't, you know, you can't skip out the first ones.
00:21:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:42
Speaker
So when you set up the agency, which was in 2002, what's it like?
00:21:46
Speaker
Like, how did you set about just starting an agency?
00:21:52
Speaker
Well, I was, because I've been an agent for a few years as well, working at another agency, when I moved to the auto-sat, I found that they all came with me.
00:22:02
Speaker
So I didn't really start from zero.
00:22:04
Speaker
I mean, they came with me, but the contracts belonged to the previous agency.
00:22:08
Speaker
So from a financial point of view, the first year would have been a tough one just because, you know, you're coming on doing all the work or you're not getting any money.
00:22:17
Speaker
or the money coming from working on these books.
00:22:20
Speaker
But I guess it kind of really worked well for me in the sense that I just literally months after I started, I started, you know, I got this book from an American
00:22:34
Speaker
agent I've been partnering, they would sell something to American publishers and they would ask me if I would find a UK publisher for the list.
00:22:44
Speaker
So they send me, but they specialised in nonfiction.
00:22:47
Speaker
So all of a sudden they got this novel and they were excited about it, but the agent said to me, look, we don't really do that much.
00:22:54
Speaker
what do you think of this?
00:22:55
Speaker
And when I read it, I just thought, oh my God, this is fantastic.
00:22:58
Speaker
And she said, by the way, the author is American but lives in London.
00:23:01
Speaker
And I said, okay, we need to be there straight away.
00:23:03
Speaker
So that was my very first signing at the agency.
00:23:07
Speaker
And that ended up being a very big deal.
00:23:10
Speaker
I mean, talking about 2008,
00:23:13
Speaker
Well, actually I started at 2002, the agency, so that would have been early 2003.
00:23:16
Speaker
And then that was a six figure deal to Random House.
00:23:21
Speaker
Now six figures in 20, yeah, it was nice.
00:23:24
Speaker
So let's say that my first year was, it started off well.
00:23:27
Speaker
That was good.
00:23:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:29
Speaker
It sounds like you have good friends going to help you out.
00:23:33
Speaker
And did you, you worked with Portobello Business Centre, is that right?
00:23:38
Speaker
Yes, I've actually, yes, because the way it started is because when I set up the agency, because they are in Butterbello as well, and I wanted to check if, you know, if there was anything that we could do, because I knew they were doing...
00:23:56
Speaker
They have several types of progress on marketing, on this or that.
00:24:00
Speaker
And when I heard more about it, I realized they were actually representing brands like, I mean, they had the Innocent, which is now Innocent Drinks, was one of their clients.
00:24:10
Speaker
And I realized a lot of these people, especially some, even names, quite known names,
00:24:15
Speaker
there could be an opportunity maybe for some of these business people to do a book of whatever brand they had.
00:24:23
Speaker
So just a conversation with somebody there and they said, well, do you want to come and talk to some of our businesses about publishing and about how do you go about writing a book?
00:24:35
Speaker
Say you are, you could be, you can have,
00:24:39
Speaker
on gyms or a restaurant, how, you know, what, what stages, what, what would you do if, um, if I have this company that is known for this and my products are already out there, but do, how would you go about doing a book?
00:24:51
Speaker
So yes, that's how I started collaborating with them.
00:24:53
Speaker
So I did workshops, uh, for, you know, for, for other businesses basically.
00:24:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:59
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:24:59
Speaker
Are you still doing those workshops?
00:25:01
Speaker
No, I think they have really changed.
00:25:03
Speaker
I think they had major cuts to the grants they used to get.
00:25:07
Speaker
So two reasons.
00:25:08
Speaker
A, because of that.
00:25:09
Speaker
So I think they have cut down on that.
00:25:11
Speaker
And plus, over time, I just realized that, I mean, the business was growing.
00:25:18
Speaker
I didn't have as much time to do that.
00:25:20
Speaker
And yeah, it was a combination of things, frankly.
00:25:23
Speaker
But yeah, but we had some really interesting, really some really interesting events and anything like that.
00:25:30
Speaker
So we had...
00:25:31
Speaker
For example, it was nice to make connections with really exciting, brilliant people.
00:25:37
Speaker
So I remember one time we did an event for an author and then through some of these businesses, one was doing catering and one was doing, you know, so they came in and actually it was a win-win for both parties, I guess.
00:25:52
Speaker
in that sense.
00:25:52
Speaker
So it was just nice on that networking and collaboration still with the, or cake making.
00:25:58
Speaker
You know, sometimes when you do book launches, you have cakes in the shape of a book or cupcakes, you know.
00:26:03
Speaker
So it was just, it's always, I mean, I told you I was very curious.
00:26:07
Speaker
I do like people, so I ask loads of questions.
00:26:09
Speaker
So I can't just be in a room with people and not go and talk to them.
00:26:12
Speaker
So that's what happened.
00:26:15
Speaker
That sounds like exactly what you would want in an agent.
00:26:17
Speaker
So you've definitely found your calling there.
00:26:20
Speaker
Thank you.
Advice on Submission Timing
00:26:21
Speaker
And are you currently open to submissions?
00:26:25
Speaker
Right now, to be honest, we are telling people if they can wait a bit because we just started the Frankfurt Book Fair and we had a three week Frankfurt Book Fair this year.
00:26:37
Speaker
So it's been quite intense.
00:26:39
Speaker
So I think that we are focusing on that and our existing clients at the moment.
00:26:43
Speaker
But we do, you know, we do take a look.
00:26:45
Speaker
I think going forward from January will be, I guess, back to normal about everything.
00:26:52
Speaker
So frankly, if people send things in, they won't be read straight away.
00:26:57
Speaker
So maybe I would say from January will be better, frankly.
00:27:02
Speaker
In general, we have.
00:27:04
Speaker
When I started, as I was saying before, the vast majority of my authors were first-time authors.
00:27:09
Speaker
With submissions coming in, most of them came from submissions, so we do read and look at them.
00:27:17
Speaker
We just are
00:27:19
Speaker
clearly like everybody else, quite cautious because now we know what kind of works and doesn't work, at least for us.
00:27:28
Speaker
We also have, you know, we represent many authors now, so we wouldn't want, for example, somebody on the list as brilliant as they might be that is too, too similar to another author we represent.
00:27:39
Speaker
We clearly don't want to create.
00:27:42
Speaker
you know, especially on the nonfiction side.
00:27:44
Speaker
So if you have an expert writing on a certain topic, we probably wouldn't take and represent another one, right?
00:27:50
Speaker
Along exactly the same lines.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yes.
00:27:52
Speaker
Because you don't want to compete against yourself.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yes, yes, exactly.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:27:56
Speaker
So is your, when you do open in January, potentially?
00:28:01
Speaker
For the submissions.
00:28:01
Speaker
I mean, people can still submit now, but we are not, frankly, as fast now as we normally be.
00:28:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:28:09
Speaker
When the window is open, uh,
00:28:12
Speaker
Is the submission package, is it pretty standard?
00:28:14
Speaker
Is it 10,000 words, a cover letter, synopsis?
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, I, frankly, I think the best way of doing it is saves, you know, authors time.
00:28:24
Speaker
And I would say send an email, at least that's what works for us.
00:28:28
Speaker
Send an email just describing the book and what, you know, work on a really, really strong pitch, something that is memorable.
00:28:37
Speaker
I mean, we are getting about 30 to 40 submissions a day and we are like a boutique agency, imagine.
00:28:44
Speaker
So that's a lot of emails to receive.
00:28:46
Speaker
Now, most of them, well, no, not most of them, but some of them are not really right for us.
00:28:52
Speaker
So we don't really do children's books, for example.
00:28:55
Speaker
We handle some children's books, but that's from our existing authors.
00:28:58
Speaker
So if we represent an author, we'd handle anything they write.
00:29:01
Speaker
But we wouldn't be taking on children's books per se.
00:29:06
Speaker
But we still get submissions of people sending us, you know,
00:29:11
Speaker
middle grade novels, YA novels.
00:29:13
Speaker
So we would be the right agents for them.
00:29:15
Speaker
So we turn them down, not because they're bad.
00:29:17
Speaker
We have no idea if they're great or not, but it's just not what we do.
00:29:21
Speaker
Same things for science fiction or fantasy.
00:29:24
Speaker
So I just recommend to everyone, just do your research and see what that particular agency or agent is.
00:29:32
Speaker
is interested in.
00:29:32
Speaker
It's so easy now with social media.
00:29:34
Speaker
In the old days, you just get books, you know, so if you write in a certain area, say you're writing a thriller, just not just read, read, read, read a lot in that area, but also, you know, sometimes authors say thank you to the agents in the
00:29:49
Speaker
you know the acknowledgement so that was a way of where you could find out a lot who represents who but these days you know online you can find absolutely everything just just follow the the agent or the agency on social media and you get a pretty good idea of what they do um so that would really say yeah i would say i always compare pitching a book a little bit when you're looking for a job you know would you send your cv
00:30:13
Speaker
same silly absolute to everyone.
00:30:14
Speaker
That's just madness.
00:30:16
Speaker
It's, you know, hoping that one in a hundred will work.
00:30:20
Speaker
I think a much more tailored approach would work better and then you have a much better chance and be less disheartened because as I say, sometimes people are turning it down.
00:30:29
Speaker
They haven't even read what you turned down.
00:30:31
Speaker
It just simply is not the right thing for them.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:35
Speaker
Or as you said earlier, they have an author in that same space.
00:30:40
Speaker
And they can't take you on as well because it should be too difficult.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:44
Speaker
I think, I think if there are, you know, there are certain areas you take, you know, romance or women's fiction.
00:30:50
Speaker
There is, I mean, it seems just one type of book.
00:30:53
Speaker
There's actually quite a broad category there, same from crime and thrillers.
00:30:56
Speaker
I would say more that applies on nonfiction.
00:31:00
Speaker
So if we have, say, an author that specializes in,
00:31:03
Speaker
popular psychology about a certain, say, is an expert on sleep or an expert on dreams.
00:31:08
Speaker
Clearly, if you are one of those, you don't want another one.
00:31:11
Speaker
But if we're talking about fiction, that's very different.
00:31:14
Speaker
I mean, two authors can be, you know, have the same synopsis, but the results are completely different.
00:31:20
Speaker
So I would say that would apply more to, yes, to nonfiction than to fiction.
00:31:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:27
Speaker
So when you do receive a submission and it has all the component parts of it, and I ask this to all the agents that come on because it's always interesting how it varies.
Submission Evaluation Process
00:31:38
Speaker
Which part do you open first and where do you sort of attribute the most value?
00:31:45
Speaker
The first thing for me would be the email or the letter that you've sent.
00:31:50
Speaker
That's absolutely the first thing.
00:31:51
Speaker
That already tells me how much they really thought about it.
00:31:58
Speaker
It's not just writing the book, you have to sell it as well.
00:32:00
Speaker
So it's just how...
00:32:03
Speaker
how much thought has gone into that.
00:32:04
Speaker
So say for example, somebody is writing commercial fiction and they send you a book that they say is like 60,000 words.
00:32:12
Speaker
Now that's not a novel, not a commercial novel.
00:32:14
Speaker
Literary fiction can be, you know, even just, even just the word count can tell you a little bit what, but I would say,
00:32:22
Speaker
A presentation that sounds where it sounds you're serious about what you're doing.
00:32:26
Speaker
You're not just scribbling your spare time.
00:32:28
Speaker
This is, which is absolutely fine.
00:32:29
Speaker
But I think when the moment you want to get an agent, which you have to remember is paid on what they sell on your behalf.
00:32:38
Speaker
So if they can do, they do all the work, but they don't get to sell your work.
00:32:42
Speaker
They don't get any money.
00:32:43
Speaker
So that really focuses your mind on things that, you know, you are confident you'll be able to sell.
00:32:50
Speaker
So it's basically the idea is having some kind of feeling that the author is serious about what they're doing, that they know the market they are writing for, that they know in a way what their competition is.
00:33:08
Speaker
So again, if you're writing a thriller, say maybe aimed at men,
00:33:13
Speaker
Do you know who are the authors, which are the big authors interacting in that area?
00:33:17
Speaker
How are you different from that?
00:33:19
Speaker
What's good comparison?
00:33:21
Speaker
I always like comparisons and comparisons can be, you know, other authors, other books, films, anything.
00:33:27
Speaker
Now, by comparison, I don't mean that's actually something I've put in.
00:33:32
Speaker
They say, well, my book is better than this.
00:33:35
Speaker
I mean, it has, it does happen.
00:33:37
Speaker
Now that may be even true, but I think it would be more helpful instead to say my readers, you know, readers of that particular author book would also enjoy my book.
00:33:49
Speaker
You know, because you are, it's good to align yourself with something recognizable that has been successful.
00:33:55
Speaker
That's very helpful.
00:33:57
Speaker
Again, it shows that you're ready in that area, you are aware what other authors writing for similar readership are doing.
00:34:06
Speaker
That's really helpful.
00:34:08
Speaker
So then in order, so that's the first thing I guess I would read.
00:34:11
Speaker
And then for nonfiction in particular, I think the author's background and expertise is very important, more than with fiction.
00:34:21
Speaker
Yes, it's good to know, but I,
00:34:23
Speaker
I do think for nonfiction is essential.
00:34:25
Speaker
Actually, sometimes in nonfiction is the author's even platform when you look at all this, the Instagram, Facebook.
00:34:33
Speaker
So, you know, so that's more how many followers you have almost because then you work on the proposal and packaging in such a way that it becomes a book.
00:34:42
Speaker
But I would say, you know, for a novelist, it's good to get some information, especially if you have, you know,
00:34:50
Speaker
If you're writing courses, you won any awards or anything like that is helpful.
00:34:56
Speaker
I would say it's essential for nonfiction.
00:34:58
Speaker
Then the thing I would also do is after the initial letter, I go straight into the text.
00:35:04
Speaker
I always ask for the synopsis for fiction, but I'll read straight the text.
00:35:08
Speaker
And I guess for me, I just want to see the, you know, I want to read and get a sense from the book itself and get an idea if it works or doesn't work.
00:35:18
Speaker
Then if when I read the text and I like what I'm reading, then I will read the synopsis just to see.
00:35:24
Speaker
Sometimes you can clearly see there is...
00:35:27
Speaker
There might be issues with the structure, particular points or pace, anything like that.
00:35:33
Speaker
And then the synopsis is helpful for that.
00:35:35
Speaker
Synopsis is very helpful also when you are selling the book, when it comes to art.
00:35:40
Speaker
But I go straight to the text first.
00:35:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:45
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:35:45
Speaker
And hopefully anyone looking to submit, not just to you, but to any agent will find that very helpful.
00:35:52
Speaker
Before we ask the final question, I have one quick one to slip in first.
00:35:57
Speaker
And that is for anyone looking to become a literary agent, what advice would you give them?
Advice for Aspiring Agents
00:36:07
Speaker
Okay, I would say be a sponge.
00:36:11
Speaker
Absorb as much as you can of everything around you.
00:36:14
Speaker
Just whether you're reading, you're reading a newspaper, you're listening to the news, you're overhearing a conversation, just...
00:36:26
Speaker
understand what makes people think, what people are liking and read a lot clearly.
00:36:33
Speaker
So these two things, I think you have to have that kind of curiosity and to want you to find out and discover things.
00:36:40
Speaker
Then you need clearly understanding
00:36:45
Speaker
a passion for maybe discovering authors, working with talent, also patience of doing that.
00:36:52
Speaker
And then on the technical side, clearly you do need to know your contracts, you need to be able to read your royalty statements.
00:36:58
Speaker
So I'm thinking something is starting out that I wanted to be an agent.
00:37:02
Speaker
it's rare that you go straight away and be an agent.
00:37:05
Speaker
Just think about it as you're building a puzzle.
00:37:08
Speaker
You've got the different bits, you put them all together so that then you have the necessary skill then to be an agent, I would say, because there is editorial work that you're doing.
00:37:18
Speaker
But again, it's essential that you're able also to negotiate.
00:37:22
Speaker
You do have an understanding of what the
00:37:24
Speaker
rates are, when you're negotiating with an editor, if you've got no idea whether the offer they have made to you is a good one or is a fair one, then that's a problem.
00:37:35
Speaker
So I guess you want that kind of... And read, read, read, because then you can't really select
00:37:47
Speaker
manuscripts or pick projects.
00:37:50
Speaker
If you can't really compare to be able to sell them, you also have to compare them with something else when you pitch to editors.
00:37:57
Speaker
So in a way, when agents are selling to editors, you actually spend a lot of time on your pitch.
00:38:03
Speaker
to refine it, to make it.
00:38:05
Speaker
So what you want is basically that as soon as the editor reads your email, they already haven't read the book, but Aida are keen to do so.
00:38:13
Speaker
And they already get an idea in their mind who's going to buy that book.
00:38:18
Speaker
So it's a little bit, it's a version of what the author should do with the agent really in the first place.
00:38:25
Speaker
So I would say that.
00:38:25
Speaker
So to be an agent, get a load of experience wherever you can in any areas of publishing.
00:38:29
Speaker
Because I'm finding that most agents become agents
00:38:32
Speaker
either coming from an editorial kind of background or experience or from a sales and rights experience.
00:38:38
Speaker
Clearly, there could be all sorts of things, but the vast majority are from one area or the other.
00:38:43
Speaker
You just need to have both kind of skills to do the role.
00:38:48
Speaker
So, understanding numbers and figures and the legal language, but clearly also the ability to spot something, which can be quite rough to start with, but then with work, you can see the potential.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:01
Speaker
So in summary, be a sponge.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yes, be a sponge.
00:39:06
Speaker
Absorb everything you can.
00:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, just take it all in.
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah, I'll give you a funny story because sometimes with my friends, especially when it comes to nonfiction, if I'm in two minds, if I want just to understand a bit more how people react to a certain, say, topic or theme, I'll just throw it out there in a group and I can see it now.
00:39:24
Speaker
They know me so well.
00:39:25
Speaker
They'll just go, oh my God, Lorela, you're doing research for a book, you know, you're doing things for a...
00:39:29
Speaker
So I said, but I find it extremely, extremely useful to do that.
00:39:34
Speaker
And then I see the reaction.
00:39:38
Speaker
If there is no reaction whatsoever, I mean, clearly that's the idea.
00:39:42
Speaker
But if I see that there is an animated discussion pro or con, that's perfect.
00:39:46
Speaker
That's exactly what I'm looking for.
00:39:48
Speaker
So I know we are maybe 12 winners or something like that.
00:39:51
Speaker
That's clever.
00:39:52
Speaker
I like it.
00:39:53
Speaker
And that brings us onto the final question that we ask everybody.
Desert Island Book Choice and Closing Reflections
00:39:58
Speaker
If, Lorella, you were stranded on a desert island and you could only take one book with you, which book would you take?
00:40:06
Speaker
I think if I, probably I should pick something like practical and useful given their circumstances, you know, but I think I'd probably to go something completely the opposite, which I think I'll pick Boothering Heights.
00:40:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yes, and I'll tell you, I mean, it's one of those novels, one of the very few novels I've read many times, and every time I kind of enjoy it, even if I know exactly what's going to happen.
00:40:33
Speaker
So I think that's the kind of book that...
00:40:37
Speaker
yes, that I'm attracted to in general.
00:40:39
Speaker
And I think probably the reason is because that novel appeals to both my personality, my taste, but also to me as an agent.
00:40:51
Speaker
So I'll tell you what I mean.
00:40:53
Speaker
I think it works on so many levels.
00:40:55
Speaker
So when you read it, you have your passionate romance, love story, and then, you know, kind of the revenge theme, the darkness there.
00:41:03
Speaker
So you got, you know, all these kind of
00:41:05
Speaker
whirlwind, it's compulsive, it is addictive.
00:41:09
Speaker
But then you also have the structure, the narrative structure is interesting in the book.
00:41:14
Speaker
And it's, you know, if somebody wants to write, I think it's really a usable way of seeing how you do flashbacks, how to do recollections, because the story clearly is kind of starting the present, well, present of the time, and then goes back to the story.
00:41:28
Speaker
So I think it's a useful way of
00:41:32
Speaker
structuring a novel.
00:41:34
Speaker
So from that point of view, again, but when you read it, it doesn't really, it's not jarring.
00:41:38
Speaker
So it's not as if you are.
00:41:39
Speaker
So I think that's another thing that it does.
00:41:41
Speaker
Plus I think it's still relevant.
00:41:43
Speaker
I mean, some of the kind of social issues it exposes, mental health, cruelty, position of women in society.
00:41:51
Speaker
I mean, there are still things that I think are relevant to readers today.
00:41:55
Speaker
And even, I mean, if you think of even the author's
00:41:58
Speaker
journey to publication wasn't the easiest one.
00:42:01
Speaker
So it's not that she had to write under a different name, but I think, I mean, there are loads of things I think about the book and the author that are still very relatable, but above all, I just think it's a, it's just a crazy, a satisfying read and a page turning book.
00:42:14
Speaker
There's a bit for, for everyone in there, I guess.
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:17
Speaker
So you would, you would represent Emily Bronte given the chance?
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's very easy to say now.
00:42:24
Speaker
At the time, actually, even people were taking gambles and things like that.
00:42:28
Speaker
And I think the publisher, yeah, did take a gamble.
00:42:31
Speaker
She didn't make much money.
00:42:32
Speaker
But yes, I think that would have been exciting, you know, to...
00:42:37
Speaker
to have been involved with something like that.
00:42:39
Speaker
But it happens, you know, there are books today that, you know, you as an agent, you think they would do in a certain way.
00:42:46
Speaker
Maybe you get a lot of money for it, but then they don't sell very much or you've got nice prizes where they didn't pay much, but then it becomes, and then clearly all of a sudden when it is successful, everyone knew that all along.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:00
Speaker
They always knew Harry Potter was going to be super successful all along.
00:43:04
Speaker
All the people that turned it down.
00:43:05
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:43:05
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:43:07
Speaker
And that happens.
00:43:07
Speaker
I mean, I won't tell you the number of sometimes rejections I had and I'm sure all agents had for, you know, literally loads, loads, loads and loads until you find that person that really loves it, takes it on and makes a success out of it.
00:43:24
Speaker
And then you are the people that's turning down come back to you and say, oh, I didn't send that to me.
00:43:27
Speaker
I actually did.
00:43:28
Speaker
It was called something different.
00:43:30
Speaker
For all sorts of reasons, you know, it's just going to be timing.
00:43:34
Speaker
There's reasons why things happen, I guess.
00:43:37
Speaker
That's all part of the excitement.
00:43:39
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Lorella, for coming on and chatting with me and sharing your experience with everyone.
00:43:44
Speaker
It's been really interesting.
00:43:46
Speaker
Congratulations again on being a finalist for the RNA's Agent of the Year.
00:43:52
Speaker
And thank you.
00:43:52
Speaker
If anyone listening would like to follow Lorella or the agency to check out all of the latest news and updates, you can find them on Twitter at LBLA UK or on Facebook at the Lorella Belly Literary Agency.
00:44:07
Speaker
The website is currently under construction, but I'm sure it'll be up soon.
00:44:12
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, you can follow us on Twitter at RightAndWrongUK and on Instagram at RightAndWrongPodcast.
00:44:20
Speaker
Thank you again, Lorella.
00:44:21
Speaker
It's been such a pleasure chatting with you.
00:44:23
Speaker
Thank you so much, Jamie, and everyone there.
00:44:25
Speaker
And thank you, the RNA again.
00:44:26
Speaker
It was a privilege and a joy.
00:44:28
Speaker
And yes, thank you to everyone listening.
00:44:30
Speaker
We will see you on the next one.
00:44:31
Speaker
Bye.