Guest: Author, Educator, and Screenwriter Bob Pondillo

Transcript

Speaker: Greetings friends. Thank you for joining us on the Mentally Oddcast where each week our guests regale us with tales of the creative process through the lens of addiction, recovery, mental and emotional health, trauma, treatment, medication, all that there because we believe that no matter what you are going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.

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Speaker: You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday, and this week we are speaking with Bob Pondillo, 30-year veteran of radio and TV, broadcasting and film, the whole schmear, right? Talk show host, performer, writer, on-air personality, DJ-turned-college professor and researcher.

Speaker: He taught at the university level for 20 years, and while teaching, wrote two nonfiction academic books. He taught screenwriting for film, and has written, directed, and produced six award-winning short films. My goodness. Welcome, Bob.

Speaker: Thank you. Nice to be here, Wednesday. Thanks so much for asking me. Of course, of course. Now, we, if you're a regular listener, you know already that we like to start out by asking our guests to tell the story of the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So I bet yours is a good one. Let's hear it.

Speaker: Well, I was, gosh, 10, maybe 10, maybe nine, I don't know, years old. And I went to see the film 13 Ghosts, which was, I think one of those, oh, weird castle films or something. and Right, right. The original one. the Yeah, the original 13 Ghosts. Right, right. And that scared the poop out of me. I just, I mean, for...

Speaker: Months, months afterwards, it was difficult for me to sleep or pay attention or think about the weird stuff I saw, you know, in that in that film. And, you know, the the the bed the the bed coming down and smushing the people in the bed. Yep, yep.

Speaker: All that stuff was pretty creepy. And it shied me away from some movies for a while. But then got into Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein on TV, of course. And I really liked that. But I found myself so energized when I was watching it. I would jump up and run around the living room and sit down and jump up and...

Speaker: Yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. I didn't realize, i you know, well, I mean, you when you're a kid, you don't realize anything, I suppose, many things. and And eventually, you know, I started watching horror films, and I watch them now, just for... um Oh, I don't know the technical aspects of it, I suppose, like, gee, how did they do that? Or what's that? How was that done? And does the script hold together? And is it, you know, and what struck me, certainly recently anyway, was, gosh, it's so much it.

Speaker: There's so much, ah the the tropes are so definite, you know, and that's the thing in writing, as you know, as a writer, people expect certain tropes and certain dramas certain genres.

Speaker: And if you don't put them in there, well, then that's not horror or it's not, you know, terror or anything. So, you you know, you've got to think about that and how you're going to craft the the film or the story around those tropes that have to be there.

Speaker: So, um so I got to thinking, gosh, there's there's so much of the movies of the horror movies that we watch, the current ones anyway. Yeah.

Speaker: they're pretty you know i mean it's like the same old shit it's the same old stuff over and over again you know the the father that moves away to the to the country with the house and he's getting away from the city and the house is haunted and it's just it just seems to be the same old stuff and i thought gee how could i do something that's horror you know, that would scare the crap out of adults. What what truly scares me, you know?

Speaker: And right not all those- Right. Well, that's always where you start. You always start with what scares you personally. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're on the money when you do that. Yet, it still has to have the tropes that we are so, um you know, that we embrace so in horror. So I started thinking about stuff that happened in my life when I was a kid and things I remembered, things I knew. And I came up with this notion of the confession.

Speaker: I'm sort of a lapsed Catholic. You know, I was a Okay, well, lots of horror there, certainly. Oh boy, you know it. and'll I'll tell you what, sir. I will tell you that I was late to Catholicism. My mom decided in junior high that we were all going to be Catholic.

Speaker: And so after not even being baptized, I was introduced to all of it at, you know, 12, 13 years old. So well old enough to start asking questions. And I just remember very clearly in catechism, which was on a Saturday, and I was kind of pissed about that having to get up early on a Saturday. And they explained to me that I would be having a first communion and what that is and what that means.

Speaker: And I just remember saying, what do you mean we eat him? right what What are you saying? Because, I mean, I don't know that I necessarily agree that horror has to have specific tropes. I'm always in favor of using the the broadest definition of horror possible. Like Jaws, for example, is one of those quintessential movies that people will say, oh, that's not horror. That's an action movie. Like...

Speaker: And that, when we had video stores and we had to pick one section to put a movie in, you couldn't have it in a bunch of different sections like you do on streaming. Right. Then, yeah, you you had to make some of those calls, and they were tough. You know, Jaws would often go in the action section, Silence of the Lambs, Misery, over in drama, because, you know, once horror starts winning awards, they have to call it a drama. They can't just openly embrace horror at the Academy. Heaven forfend.

Speaker: um Boy, that's... on the money you got there Don't get me started. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, I came up with this idea of the confession and I, uh, I remembered my Catholic upbringing and some of the things I saw during that time. And, um, uh, yes, the, the, this notion of, consuming the host, uh,

Speaker: I mean, it's a pa it really is a pagan notion, the idea that, you know, if you ancient folks would say, well, if you want to run as fast as the deer, eat the flesh of the deer, put that inside you, and therefore you will have what it is you want.

Speaker: So, um okay. So I guess it's not a big jump to see, well, I guess if I want Jesus Christ inside me, I could eat him too. Okay. but ah put them inside. i mean, the the whole notion of a psychological or or mythical idea that was rejected, apparently. And so we had to eat them and drink his blood, too. um nu num nom numb I know. Just delicious. And they're terrible. It's like eating cardboard. If you ever had. Well, can you be vegetarian and Catholic under those circumstances?

Speaker: ah See, they they hadn't thought of that. So that's Or have they? You know, we had ah a minister on the show a few weeks ago, and it did not occur to me to ask that. But I think he said that there is gluten-free Eucharist. So I have to think there's going to be something for everyone there. Yeah, right. now I'm sure that that's true. So anyway, so but that happens. But now, as you know, before you have your communion,

Speaker: a a commune a a sit down a dinner with god with jesus or god uh you have to have a confession this is part of the holy uh you know goes back to the 16th century part of the holy roman notion that you have to confess your sin because sin sticks to us like uh i don't know like whatever with gum or something like something very sticky Sticky, yes, like you something, I don't know. And now because, you know, before confession, at birth upon the, you know, having a baby, a baby is born in sin, right? I mean, he was born with the sin of Eve, as they used to call it. Talk about patriarchy. So was born. Well, yes, everybody's born dirty and you need this thing. And also it's women's fault.

Speaker: Right, right. That's not that's your premise. Which is okay, but then again, a bunch of guys wrote it, so what do you expect, right? So anyway, ah so you have to get washed, you know, they washed in the blood the lamb. ye I know, yuck. Why would you want to do that? And I go, sometimes I go with my, uh, my wife to a Lutheran church and they sing a song washed in the blood of the lamb. And I'm like, yeah yeah like what is going on here? I don't want to hear that. you know? So anyway, um,

Speaker: So you have to be washed, and that wash is the, ah you know, is the baptism, the water. You use water to wash yourself. And and how do you do that in the castle? Well, and that happens. And upon that happening, the little child is then a clean for a while, because once you get to be seven, eight years old, you know, here comes the stickiness again. Here comes the... or so they say but see the belief was that you are of the age of reason according to the you know in the 1500s anyway uh you know by the age of seven or eight because right people only live till what till 30 some of them i mean many people live past that into their 70s 80s and 90s but very rarely so anyway

Speaker: So that happens. So you have to have a sin to tell your priest, right? And you're eight years old and you're a little girl. And so this is how the story started to build. I thought, well, what happens if the kid doesn't have a sin or can't think of a sin? ah What do you do? Well, I mean, well, and and what happens in our story? um Little Alice is her name. She decides she's going to go get a sin with the help of her friend, Bobby.

Speaker: who we i who is a psychopath, but he's a little boy. And anyway, he he tells her, he suggests to her that, well, you know, you can kill, you can steal, you could, I don't know, those are the big ones. You could just, you know, stealing and killing are pretty big. So she decides to commit a crime in order to have a sin to tell her priest.

Speaker: And that fucks sake, coveting. Come on, girl. You don't got to be that bad. Yeah. Yeah. She could. there' There's just a load of shit she could have done, but she didn't. And she went into a drugstore and she stole a little doll's head off of ah of of a package of ah like a Barbie kind of thing.

Speaker: And and at at least that's where I started. And I think I did that because as a little boy, I remember stealing something.

Speaker: from um i don't know where like a like a i guess like a dollar store or something or something that passed for a dollar store back then and it was nothing it was like a pencil sharpener or something i don't know some little thing that i put in my pocket and i actually felt like little horns uh growing out of my head and stuff and uh you know oh yikes No kidding. I had like little dream i dreams of being a devil dressed in a devil costume. And I threw and i threw the pencil sharpener into a sewer.

Speaker: And then I felt better. I threw it away and then I I didn't have my my sin anymore apparently or at least in my 10 year old mind. So I took that idea and thought well now let's expand that a little bit and think about this. This is the the story itself is set in 1959 58 59 and.

Speaker: fifty eight fifty nine and think about the era in which the story is set, which is ah almost a character in itself when you think about it.

Speaker: I mean, this was, yeah, this was the second, you know, the post-war era coming of the coming of the Second War. That was over. People were coming home. ah There were still the racism in the culture i mean just unbelievable racism and a lot of uh you know sexism and everything else that's every other ism you can possibly think of i mean it was a terrible time uh for adults to be alive for little kids we we didn't know what the hell was going on so we we didn't And of course, you know you listen to your parents, you listen to what's going on in the house and or the stuff that's being ah fed to you via the media at at the time, which it wasn't social media, clearly, but there was a lot of television and and radio. Television was fairly new.

Speaker: Only happened in the 1950s. I mean, well, happened you know and you could argue television happened you know back in the 1930s. Then the war came, everything stopped. Then after the war, television sort of took off. And so there was those things reinforcing things. There was a lot of sexual...

Speaker: I don't want to call it deviation, but sexual, there was a great deal of fear in the culture over sex in general, masturbation, you know, seeing women's breasts, toilets, not that it doesn't have anything to with sex, but it was, see, I'm,

Speaker: I'm reaching into my my academic bag here because I did a lot of research on censorship in in media and you know trying to figure out why why did people behave this way over this type of material.

Speaker: you know we We can certainly smack the Hays Code around later in the interview if you'd like to. I'm i'm always yeah i'm always here for that. Oh, well, there was, and there was that too, the Hays Code. Now, why? Why was that? Because at the time, Americans not only appreciated, but demanded censorship.

Speaker: They wanted, I mean, they, you know, because of the the Christian nature of the culture and the belief that, you know, sort the Legion of Decency, the Catholic Church had the Legion of Decency. and books that couldn't be looked at and television. Yeah, it's um some television and movies.

Speaker: Well, if I may, i think that it wasn't so much that that is what every American wanted, but that that's what the loudest Americans were demanding, the Karens of the day, and because of that, advertisers.

Speaker: Yes. I kowtow to that because they didn't want to take any shit. But that's the thing is that we look at that era and say, that's what people were like. That's what people wanted. No, that's what was being presented to us. The June Cleaver, you know, mom is up with her heels and pearls on it at 7 a.m. cooking pancakes for the boys before school.

Speaker: You know, if if my mom got up and and pointed to the s cereal, that was that was impressive at our house. You know, these are not real things. You got it. I think you hit upon a very important thing. Those, ah the ideology of the time, and ideology is that thing that we live in, that, we you know, it's like we're we're like fish in water.

Speaker: You know, the water the fish can't see the water, we can't see the ideology that surrounds us. This ideology is... um What would you call? Well, it's capitalist in nature, as you pointed out, sponsors, ads, those kind of things. yeah It's classist.

Speaker: You know, it's all about that those who have the power, own everything. Those are the ones that are in control. So you could make a, ah you know, a Marxist sort of understanding of it where it's all about the money. And I think you'd be pretty close to the truth if you did that. it's And no, not everyone.

Speaker: You're absolutely right. Just like today, not everyone, but those who have, who own and control everything, who think they, you know, they've got to be very careful about what they say and how they do it, and or it's going to screw with their products.

Speaker: Yeah, that that was certainly resident in the culture. It wasn't, the it did exist and it and it existed writ big, as they say, you know. it was Well, and at the same time, when you look at the advertising from that era, my God, it's sexist.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. mean, you know, a husband giving his wife a spanking, like over his knee spanking because she bought the wrong brand of coffee, like crazy stuff like that. Yeah. So you tell me, you know, you look at that and that's, again, a wonderful point. You look at that you go, what the hell, you know, as a person looking at it through presentist eyes, as they say, as we're looking at it through our eyes of today, we go, what the hell?

Speaker: Why would somebody do that? How could you sell coffee doing that? You know, and the truth is, ah Apparently, in the 1950s and 60s, you could. And it was fine. it was And it's not like men were going to the grocery store buying their own coffee. You know, the husbands did not do the grocery shopping for the household. So who is that meant to appeal to?

Speaker: I, you know, I don't know, but it does inform what but what the hell was going on in the culture at the time. It's a reflection of something that says, this is okay to do.

Speaker: You can do this and it's going to be fine. It's going to sell coffee apparently. And, and, and because, you know, going back to the book, because this era, you know, is the,

Speaker: how shall i put it the era that that uh you know this is before the coming of uh uh gloria steinham and uh uh who wrote the uh feminine mystique um you know anyway i can't remember the lady's name the woman's name that wrote the feminine mystique But this is... Betty Friedan. Yes, thank you, Betty Friedan.

Speaker: This is before the coming of those notions, those new ideas that were introduced into the culture very slowly. And because of that, I don't think, you know, so women were suffering under this this a ah power of thought that existed in the culture.

Speaker: And... they didn't have any words for how they felt or or whatever. And, you know, they say language is thinking out loud. And you have to have the language. Betty Friedan had to write that book. And it was its essential that that book got out there. And then it it resonated so much in the culture.

Speaker: So it just shows you, you know, how important our... our writers and our thinkers are in changing things sadly, slowly, but they do change. And we're now more awoke.

Speaker: I didn't want to say woke, but we're awoken to these new notions. I was, I mean, ah and I still i am, I i guess, ah being a guy, like one of the questions you asked me in my, uh,

Speaker: Just before we we talked, you said, well, have you ever been afraid, you know, like on a bus or if you're walking down the street and somebody's behind you? i I'm never afraid. I never think about stuff like that. But a woman walking down the street with a guy behind her, it's like, holy shit, what the hell?

Speaker: Who is this guy? what yeah And I never thought about that. until I asked my wife, because, you know, the Me Too movement is so powerful. And I said, have you ever been sexually harassed?

Speaker: You know, I mean, i love this woman. I don't want bad for this woman. i you Wait, you asked a grown woman whether or not she has ever been sexually harassed, yeah as if there was a possibility that you could reach an age of 30 or 40 and never have been sexually harassed. I don't know that that's possible, honestly.

Speaker: Well, it's Perhaps, but i'm I guess I'm an idiot in that regard because I i truly never thought about it. I said, does that really happen? Did that happen to you? And she goes, what's wrong with you? Yes, of course it has. and And she clicked off all these things and I just felt like shit. I mean, god I mean, she's such a wonderful person. Why would you be treated like a like a piece of meat, like somebody that you're that another person owns you and can do that to you and stuff? Come on, man. You don't do that. What you're illustrating here is actually a really important point, that a person can have empathy. They can absolutely care about an issue. But without the awareness, without people talking about it and making sure that these things are being spoken in the open, they they won't know. It won't occur to them. Why would it occur to you? You know, and like I'm a white lady, for example. So there are a lot of racial issues that people have gone through that I can't begin to understand.

Speaker: You know, I try to listen to people when they describe their experience. Some of it just seems so foreign to me that I want to ask a lot of follow up questions. But I think because I'm autistic and and fairly blunt, you know, I don't always soften my statements that people feel challenged by what I say. Like if I ask a follow up question, it feels like I'm saying that I don't believe them.

Speaker: But that's not really it. So that's actually a lot about what we try to do here on the show is to... give voice to to to amplify as many different perspectives as we can so we all know where we're coming from. Actually, a lot of white dudes will say to me, are you sure i should be on your show?

Speaker: Surely we hear enough from white dudes. But the thing is, there's there's still more to know about white dudes. They're not a monolith. There's plenty to say. And the thing is, It's important that we know, like, for example, what you just illustrated, that you mean well, it just never occurred to you that that's something that all women deal with. Because why would it?

Speaker: Unless you see it every day, like women do, why would you know? yeah Good question. i you know i think about, but my mom would always say, ah hey, you know, like,

Speaker: Think of others. You're not the only person here, you know, think of others. And it's like, oh, wow. Okay, mom, you know, I got you. And, and so I always had that. I never did that kind of smarmy.

Speaker: How you doing, baby? You're kind of, you know, kind of bullshit that I couldn't do it. I don't, yeah I think to myself, I don't know this person. I can't do that. you know I can't just go up to somebody.

Speaker: So, uh, you know, so, um, So that so there's that that that that had to happen. But let me just take a step back. You mentioned I was a radio disc jockey and I was back. Oh, God, long time ago.

Speaker: And it was fun and was great to be a young guy in radio and, you know, all that. But I remember. Uh, my program director at a radio station in Cleveland, Ohio, a big station, twelve twenty w g a in Cleveland, big 50,000 watt station. I was working on it.

Speaker: Yeah, it was a good one. And, uh, lots of fun and enjoyed myself. Best time of my life. I still have dreams about it. Um, uh, the program manager said to me, um remember, do not play two female songs back to back.

Speaker: And I said, yeah, and I said, okay, sure. All right. And, and he said, it could be a male, a female, a group, but not another the female then. agree And I couldn't figure out why i truly I just went, okay, right? Okay.

Speaker: You know, he's my boss. Okay. But there's an example of patriarchy right there. I hadn't even a thought of it was God, 50 years old, probably and, and went,

Speaker: Look at that. Now, why is that? Why wouldn't the the notion that male voices are better in some way or not as frightening or whatever the hell he thought.

Speaker: But this was a common thing that happened in radio all over the country. And so I look at I mean, the the comics code, the comics code also spelled it out. Well, you know, you've done the the history. so you So you're aware of that, that they just said straight up, no, no women in in starring roles, no women superheroes. I mean, Wonder Woman was a long way in. And it's because one guy fought and fought and fought for it.

Speaker: yeah you know And even today, it's not like women have equal representation in in comics. yeah We sure don't. Absolutely. You're, again, right on the money. Yeah. So there you go. Music, comics, everything, of ah other stories. ah you know there's There's many other stories that we can point to as well. But um all these things work to reinforce the patriarchy that that was out there. I mean, that that is out there. Yeah.

Speaker: We'll remain out there probably for a while, but people are catching on finally. And, uh, I'd like to say things are changing. I used to tell my students, you know, it takes a long time for this cultural stuff to change.

Speaker: um I'm so sorry. i just need to jump in. When you say people are catching on, i would actually say men are listening to women.

Speaker: They're listening to us and hearing what we have to say and that women are ah more and more encouraging each other to de-center men. my My grandmother was very specific to me in saying, do not marry someone because of a pregnancy.

Speaker: Do not marry someone that you want stability but are not in love with. Do not marry someone who doesn't respect you. And it didn't occur to me for many years to think, wow, why did my grandmother feel so strongly about that? And then when I got the answers to those questions, they were less cheerful than I would have liked. Yeah.

Speaker: You know, it's like when you look at your great grandparents or even further back and just notice the age difference like, hey, wait a minute. You both seemed really old when I met you, but one of you is 19 years older than the other one. What's that about? Yeah. You know, you you don't think of these things when you're a kid and then you grow up and say, oh.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, I know. And again, you know, that just that reinforcing culture. We were all messed up and screwed up about sex. And we still are. But in many ways.

Speaker: but Well, I mean, you don't want to get me started on that issue as a former sex writer. i still am just agog that we, one of the most developed nations in the world, apparently, that's what we say anyway, we do not have a federal standard for sex ed. It is total. totally luck of the draw, whether you're going to get to know that gay people exist, whether the female orgasm will mean anything to you, or whether you're going to get any sex ed at it all. You might not. You might get go to the bathroom and take care of that, and that's pretty much it. you know so yeah that's but that's That's such an enormous topic.

Speaker: i I think it is the power of the the Christian influence in the culture. Oh, absolutely. You know, absolutely you can't do that. You can't do that. can't spill your seed. You can't do this. ah Menstruating, you can't touch a all that, all that bullshit. I mean, after a while, it's just, you know, can we grow up? Can we please just grow up and and take a look at things? The fear that parents have. Oh, I can't have my kid knowing that.

Speaker: You think, I mean, it's it's like that old the joke about, you know, if you watch Jerry Seinfeld, you're not going to be a comic. You're not going to turn into a comic. You know what I mean? If you hear something on you know, if you hear, uh, uh,

Speaker: I don't know, I remember walking in um on my kid and he was looking at the Grand Theft Auto, playing of the game Grand Theft Auto, where they were running around with cars and running over people. And I said, Jesus, that's pretty violent, isn't it? And he said, Dad, I understand the the difference between your real violence and fake violence, you know. And it's like, just because you see it or hear it doesn't mean ah people are, or your child is going to respond in a way that's going to, um you know, make you distrust him.

Speaker: or her. Sure, sure. Well, yeah, and and there's the whole like depiction versus endorsement or consumption versus endorsement that just because you like the content or you create the content doesn't mean that you approve of or condone or would replicate the behavior if indeed you could. right You know, i write about serial killers and but between you and I, I haven't killed anyone yet. Not not a soul.

Speaker: Now, some might say that makes me a hypocrite and a fraud, but I don't I don't think it does. no You know, we ah we typically i mean, I invite guests that I know. I invite my buddies, ah fellow writers. um You know, people I went to school with, stuff like that. Now, you actually contacted us because you wanted to come on the show, and I would like to know what led you to do that.

Speaker: Oh, well, I... I used to make when I was when I was, you know, I taught school for I taught college for about 20 years and down in Middle Tennessee at Middle Tennessee State University. I used to ah teach the screenwriting classes. And one of the great things about MTSU is that they have a wonderful production uh line a a production class classes and you learn about cameras and microphones and you know sets and designing and all that stuff which is great very important great to have great crew but they didn't have somebody you know everybody's got cameras and microphones i mean What distinguishes this from that is the ideas, the stories that we wish to tell using these tools. And and they didn't have a ah track in that area, so I taught screenwriting. And since we had this wonderful production track...

Speaker: I said, well, ah you know, I wrote a dozen of short films that nobody saw. And I thought, well, maybe I could, you know, write some stuff and and we could get a bunch of students together and cast it and go forward and make a movie. And we did. We made about a half dozen of them and every one of them won the awards at film festivals around the nation one movie was even translated into check and played at a budapest film festival and two of them went to a short film corner at can in france and all that stuff. So we were very well represented with great students, good stories, and good people. So I made these movies, and and when I retired, i started writing full-length feature movies.

Speaker: or expanding the short films that are written into full-length feature films and spent about 10 years trying to get the tech bros in hollywood land and uh or lit agents or i don't know you name producers you name it uh knocking on doors getting close getting shut out you know all that stuff i mean and nothing new uh There's a lot of money on the line and I'm nobody. Who who the hell am I? Right.

Speaker: I mean, yeah, I've got all this experience, but that, you know, you gotta, it's I, and I don't know anybody in the movie business. So I thought, well, hell, I got some good stories here. I'm going to change them. I'm going to repurpose them from, ah you know, full length feature films and,

Speaker: write them as novelized prose and then get them out there on my own. These are good stories. They heard they they they should be heard. They should be read or looked at or, you know, and and that's what I did.

Speaker: So I spent the last almost two years now repurposing all my movies and sticking them up on Amazon as books, as novels, and hoping that somebody eventually would see them. and How's that going?

Speaker: ah It's going. I'm i'm getting some five-star reviews, four-star reviews and stuff. you know Nice. nice wow they're They're buying them to or they're finding them. i you know To tell you the truth, I'd give them away because I just like the stories out there.

Speaker: It's not like I'm trying to make a cash, but you know make some money or anything. <unk>d I'd be fine, but i'm not... That's not what's motivating me. I'm hoping eventually someone will see it maybe, you know, they'll say, hey, this is this has got a very strange cinematic quality, this book, because it's a movie, because it was a movie, you know, and. um Uh, so that's, and, and then I started saying, well, I gotta get the word out and I don't have any money per se. Uh, so I thought maybe if I could get on some ah podcasts and talk about them, uh, that might be good. And so that's what I did. And that's how I found you.

Speaker: You know, there are millions of podcasts. It's incredible. how I mean, hundreds of thousands of them. It's hard to find a ah good one that, uh, would be interested in what I, what I'm doing and, uh, contacted and you were kind enough to say yes. but That's why I'm doing it. I just want people to know about the books.

Speaker: I see. Yeah. Now, you ah you describe your diagnosis as chronic low-grade depression. So let's first go over just how that presents for you.

Speaker: Okay, um well, chronic low-grade depression is, fortunately, I you know i take, I can't remember the name. of i take a medication for it, and you know it's under control in that way.

Speaker: i think a lot of my, what would you call it, depression, I guess, was because I was in a situation. a, situation i was in a You worked in the broadcasting industry for 30 years, almost 30 years. And actually more than 30 years. Anyway. And and and and it's ah It's a very stressful and of sad a business to begin because everything has a, you know, what would you call it, a sort of a plate, a, a, a,

Speaker: a I'm trying to think, how would you put it? eight Like like a an overlay of capitalism on top of it. You've got to work within that system all the time.

Speaker: And it's it was very difficult for me. i I don't think I'm as much a as a performer and as an ego type person that I needed to be to be in that business, to tell you the truth. I wasn't cut out for that business, even though I was pretty good at it, or at least I got good jobs. You know, i went to NBC in New York back when there was NBC radio in New York.

Speaker: But it was ah it's ah it's a, it's a, debilitating business for me and i'm just talking about me i know a lot of people love it and i and it's like i'm happy i did it i'm happy i don't have to do it anymore you know it's done and um and i think that was part of the reason why i was dragging a it was like dragging ah like a like a ball around you know like a a heavy weight around with me all the time And it's one thing to be normal and one thing, you know, to be crazy. I'm on the radio, of course, you have to be, dot dot ah you know, Mr. Showbiz, you have to come on the air and be loud and fun and all that. And that's not me.

Speaker: I mean, I'm more of an introverted kind of guy. And, uh, but, but, you know, you turn the mic on and and for 20 seconds, you gotta be the guy, everybody, you know, and, um,

Speaker: and it was so unreal to me it was so like you you it's like you sit in a little box for four hours a day talking to no one even though you know they're out there and you it's ah it's ah it's an act it's a performance you have to put on every day and if you don't like to do that or find no joy in it uh and you're only doing it because you know you got to eat Well, and the thing is that turning off your real self, whether it's in a customer service situation or broadcasting situation, that can get out of hand because you find that you're doing it in other parts of your life. Like in in certain types of neurodivergence, it's called masking. It's just pretending that you're not having the problem that you're having.

Speaker: to such an extreme length that even you don't realize that you're having the problem. yeah you know know So with that in mind, I'm curious to know um how you came to realize that you needed help with depression and then how you went about getting a diagnosis.

Speaker: Well, I, I went to, uh, well, my brother is a psychologist. He's a PhD in psychology and he's, uh, he has a little business in, in, um, Warren, Ohio.

Speaker: And, uh, you know, he said, uh, he recognized like, what's wrong with you, you know, Bob, something's, something's up here. You need to see somebody, not me.

Speaker: You need some, you know, you need eyes that are not mine to look at you and, and, uh, help you. So, uh, so he said, don't be a fool. Use that word. Don't be a fool. Don't live like this anymore.

Speaker: You know, I think he was worried for me and I think too, that it was killing me. I mean, the, the, the job itself was killing me. I mean, I had my mom, I think had a, had a problem with depression and then I, you know, perhaps I don't know if I inherited it, but it probably was a, a portion of why I was, uh, sad all the time.

Speaker: okay And so um I went to you know a psychologist and we sat and talked for many, many months, many years actually, and got on the and the, and you know, the serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

Speaker: And yeah, see, I got all the serotonin in my brain and my receptors are saying, and no, thanks. So yeah i yeah I needed something that's going to help me. And and that did.

Speaker: and And then ah upon leaving, you know, quitting radio, this was this was my life. This was who I saw myself as. i I knew i was killing me. I couldn't go back. So I quit.

Speaker: And this is since I was a little boy, since I was 14 years old, I started in radio. So now I'm 41 or something. And I'm like, I can't do this. And what can I do? i can't. I mean...

Speaker: these are very limited skills. that You know, I can't be, well, I guess it could be a preacher, could be a teacher, could be a, i don't know, politician, not a lawyer, you know, um a podcaster. before That's what I'm doing with my broadcasting degree. Here I am.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So I, I mean, I could do those things, but I don't have any other skills. And so I got to go back to school. So I went back to school. I got, I, uh, I was working in a place in Hartford, Connecticut at a radio station. And one day a guy came in and said, no offense, nothing personal. We're going in a new direction. And he slid that that severance check toward me and said, oh, you just did your last show, you know, because they don't want you to go on the air and have a swan song or something like or be upset. Right, right.

Speaker: See, that's one thing. Radio and television is like that. I mean, you know, they don't want you to go on the air and expose your real self. You you can't. It's show business. It's show business, they keep reminding me.

Speaker: So, yeah. Yeah, so I got out and i went back to school and went to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, got a job in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, again in radio, but just, to you know, to have money coming in, but not as a disc jockey. I was a production manager at a station in Milwaukee. And, uh,

Speaker: And then eventually thought I, but the stress was overwhelming and even worse because you have to deal with salesmen and programmers and all these other people that are just on your case that has to be done yesterday and it has to be great and all that stuff. So, you know,

Speaker: Stop. It has to has to stop. So I went back to school and and it was great because the noise went away. There's so much noise in in in media in broadcasting. in particular but in in media in general noise is everywhere and i need quiet it i need time to sit and think i need time to read i don't you know i can't handle the noise so um going back to school was great because then i you know it was challenging it was new i was old everybody was young i i wasn't much of a scholar and i learned how to be a scholar or at least i

Speaker: I don't know if I've ever learned, but i've I've done it and I've got my book published and those kinds of things. So maybe I am, but anyway, I, uh, I enjoyed it. And, uh,

Speaker: I enjoyed everything about it and I only wish I would have gotten involved in higher education earlier in my life, but I didn't because I knew nothing else. So, well, and you know, I'd like to touch on that actually, because I think that, and this is a generalization, but overall,

Speaker: women look at their careers as something that they do. And men tend to look at their careers as who they are. You got And that changing careers makes you a different person. And that that's true of of some careers more than others. But things that we went to school specifically for, yeah, that's the identity now.

Speaker: Cops absolutely do things like that. Career military people, you know pro athletes. This is who I am. This is what I do. And they literally feel like they're becoming a different person if they do something else to earn a living.

Speaker: yeah And that has to really, really amp up the pressure on you guys, especially since as a society, men, we hold men responsible for the money situation in a household. If the house is messy and the kids are screwed up, that's on the mom.

Speaker: Even if the dad's an abusive alcoholic, that's still on the mom. But even if the mom is a heroin addict who has a gambling addiction, money problems in the home are going to be blamed on the dad.

Speaker: Oh, yes. That's just that's just what happens. So yeah that has to contribute to any sort of low grade depression because it has to, you know, job problems. It seems like they must send the message that you're not.

Speaker: you know, you're not doing what people expect you to do, that you're not up to snuff. And that's such a heavy burden to have to carry around. Yeah, and I agree that whole notion of momism, which was pretty ru yeah pretty obvious and and relevant, I guess, in the nineteen well, I guess you go back to Victorian times, even.

Speaker: But because of the father was the breadwinner or whatever, and the mother was in charge of you know education and religion, teaching, you know, teaching religion, all those kind of things for the kids. Yeah, but momism came came in real strong in the 1950s, where they blamed the mother for you know, whatever the problem a kid had, which is,

Speaker: Awful, but right up there with, you know, that's how it works during ah in a patriarchal society. Anyway, I, so yeah, I did that. And the thing that kept me going was, this is strange, was fear.

Speaker: It was like, shit, I must go forward. I don't know how hard this is going to be, but I have to keep going because if I go back, I'll die. You know what i mean? It'll kill me. I can't go back. I cannot go, be you know, those kinds of things. You must move forward. And you know, did you do any grad work?

Speaker: I don't know if you did any graduate. No. spot ah Well, you get it. you You know how it is when you're an undergraduate, yeah you get through it. That's the grad work is like a a fucking mountain. I mean, it's an elephant. You got to eat one bite at a time, you know?

Speaker: And it seems overwhelming. And the after a while, you know, you have people telling you, but I had people telling me, go on, go on. You know, you got your master's. Now go on.

Speaker: Go for the PhD. So I went to the University of Wisconsin at Madison and and started on the PhD path. And that was like...

Speaker: Oh boy, ah I'm happy it's over. I'm happy I did it. I'm happy it's over. But it was, ah it was like, it was life changing. It was mind expanding and life changing. That's for sure. And so when you are a student and you feel like you are on your way to the next step in life and you're being productive on a regular basis, does that impact the severity of the depression?

Speaker: The depression wasn't as, yeah, it was still there. I hadn't really got on the pills yet, ah as I recall. but it But yes, there was ah ah like a lighter feeling. I don't know how to put it, sort of a lightness feeling.

Speaker: The lightness of being. And I was, yeah, I was trying to, I think I was focused on this new thing that I had to do. More reading, more thinking, which is kind of what I like to do. So, yes, it was. And that's when I met my my current wife as well.

Speaker: who was just a teacher, she a high school teacher. And we met, one this is how long ago it was. There was no computer dating, it was telephone dating back then. And I met her on the telephone and we talked for probably a couple of weeks before we actually met each other.

Speaker: And I really liked her. I thought she was very funny and cool and stuff. And and yeah I even said, look, if we don't like each other in that way, we can at least be pals and go and see movies and that kind of stuff, you know, just be friends. And I did like her in that way. and I liked her just because of she's the best thing that ever happened to me. and So that's another thing that happened.

Speaker: You know, finding that that that twin flame, that thing that either Socrates or one of one of the... One of the Greek philosophers talked about the twin flames that have been cut ye yep at birth. And then you come together and you know you you spend your life looking and you finally find it. Now you're complete again, that kind of stuff.

Speaker: I don't know if that's true, but anyway, it was it was like that. and we just we And we still do. We've been married more than 25 years now. and we you know we still We never run out of things to say and we're always fun and we're, you know...

Speaker: it's yeah So you that really helped to have somebody share. Oh, absolutely. I get that. That is relatable. So the situation changed. situational Situationally, I got out of the the broadcast thing.

Speaker: you know, got into teaching. I got into writing. I got all that stuff. And then I met her. And yeah, so things aren't, things aren't bad. I still take the pills though, because every now and again, i have a dark side you know. Well, and that's, that's really important because it's sick. It's cyclical, but everything is interconnected. If your life is better, then the pills will feel like they're working better. You know what I mean? Even though,

Speaker: that Because... A lot of like one of the things that we talk ah about on the show is, you know, you have anxiety and depression. is that really a disorder or is that a correct, reasonable reaction to living in a country where fascists are taking over?

Speaker: Like you're a you should be depressed about that. I might consider it ah imbalanced if you look at that and say, oh, that seems fine. And then go about your business like what?

Speaker: So, yes. So the the situation getting better doesn't necessarily mean that mental illness evaporates if indeed what you had was was a mental illness and not just a prolonged reaction to a difficult situation.

Speaker: Yeah, well, it was prolonged. There's no doubt about that. i was always with the knot in my stomach kind of a guy, you know, and sure, sure. Yeah, but you're you're right. When situations change, it helps. But as you said, you know, I'll. um I'll watch media, I'll watch television and what have you and see what's going on. And yeah, I mean, it just breaks my heart sometimes. I just can't, I have to walk away. I can't even look at it and and know that these things are happening in a country that I still kind of, i i kind of love in the sense that it usually looks at its problems and fixes them. It takes forever, but they usually figure it out after doing all the dumb shit they always do. you know And now it it makes me makes me fear that that that is under attack.

Speaker: And how are we ever Well, I think if we ask certain minorities of various types, they would not agree that we usually get it right around here. We we don't. we I think we do the the best we can for the largest number of people, but yeah, way too many people being left out of basic things like safety and and yeah basic security. so Yeah, but but moving on, though, um I know that you you have taught at the college level. So do you find it difficult to indoctrinate young people into the woke, like the woke mind virus? that I hear that spreads among today's youth. How how is that going?

Speaker: too Well, I'll tell you, I'm um ah I'm more of a, yeah you know, more of a.

Speaker: Socratic kind of a teacher. So I'll say, so, you know, like when I taught, I would say, so what do you think? And then they would say what they think. And then I would say, well, what about that?

Speaker: And then they would say what they think. And then I'd say, well, have you thought of this? And how, how do you feel about that? And do you think that's right? And you know what I mean? You just, you just, I, I don't indoctrinate. i I didn't, and I wouldn't want it happening to me. So I just say, um let's talk about that now, you know, and then ask questions and see or or say, you know, that actually has been thought about before. There was a great Greek philosopher that said, and then you add that.

Speaker: How you feel about that? You know, what do you think about that? do you think, you know, you want to stretch their minds? You don't want to fill it with the crap you want or my crap. I got enough.

Speaker: You know, don't want to. You know, I went to a liberal arts college and it was all about and it was a religious school, too. It was it was affiliated with the Congregational Church, um but still more than any other thing.

Speaker: We were taught how to think critically. And I'm sure you've heard the expression that reality has a well-known liberal bias. Because when you teach people how to think critically, the first things they examine are their parents' religion that they were taught.

Speaker: And their parents' politics. you know They start looking at everything and say, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. Why should she make less when they're doing the same job? why should you know Why should she stay home and and watch the kids and not work, but then when they get a divorce, she doesn't have any income because she hasn't worked in 15 years? you know Just all these little things.

Speaker: Why can't I say a swear word on television? Why can't I see a man's bare chest but not a lady? It's like, why, why, why? And that's what the fash does not want. They don't want people asking why for the same reason that your boss doesn't want your coworkers discussing how much money you all make.

Speaker: Because they are fucking with you and they are desperate to keep us under control. so Yeah. i think I think, you know, I mean, it's bold to say all those things, but I think there's lots and lots of truth there. There's a lot of stuff going on that that is hidden from us. and best to unhide it, you know best to put it out there and talk about it and figure it out. And you're right about the visuals. How come we can see the the butt end of a guy on TV, but you can't see his penis? Why is that?

Speaker: Maybe in movies, but not on TV. Well, the the men that we talked about before, the advertisers, they they don't want us to compare and contrast. that's ah that's That's also the obsession with virginity. Like, no, I need you to not have anything to compare this to, miss. So, yeah but yeah again, another topic for another day. Because you wrote a book about Stockton Helfridge. Which, yeah you know, in this vein of discussion, i mean, he's a fascinating guy, but kind of like, you know, what's his name? Kellogg. It's like, what the hell is wrong with him? But also, why did people take him seriously? I mean, he hated fun and women's bodies and gay people. Like, what what is that guy's problem?

Speaker: Well, Helfrich was an unusual man. He went to Penn State and he came out with, you know, acculturated the way most young men coming out of college in the 1930s, I guess it was, was. And he was, um you know, he thought the way he thought, and I think he embraced the culture that was around him and what have you, got into radio and did the, did the you know, worked for a woman. The the woman at the the radio center at NBC was a woman, I can't recall her name now, but worked for her for a while. um And then eventually when television took off by the mid, by the early 50s and what have you, he was he was in charge of television censorship and had minions. He had people helping him, of course. But he was also open-minded guy, strangely enough. um

Speaker: And when Eddie Cantor, there was this comedian, singer, vaudeville. Oh, I know who Eddie Cantor is. Yeah, Eddie Cantor. Anyway, so he was like, pop, pop, pop, say goodbye. You know, he had big big eyes and he was he was quite entertaining for the time.

Speaker: He would go on the, the I think the Colgate Comedy Hour or one of these shows on NBC. And he would he would do a song in blackface because minstrel minstrelsy the minstrelty was um considered, you know, grand American entertainment. that or not at the time. So he would blacken up his face and sing some, some, you know, song. And when Helfrich saw this, he said, no, that can't happen. That has to stop, which caused Eddie Cantor to quit.

Speaker: And that was the end of Eddie Cantor on the, on the, yeah. But so he was open to that. He was also, but there was, maybe it's, it's a, it's a strange, well, for, for example, um,

Speaker: he couldn't show toilets on television. That's right in the toilet, you know, that was on. Remember when they were selling bleach or something for the toilet, it was a little man ah sitting on the toilet, or in inside. He was a miniature man and he would sat ah sat on a sponge or something and talk. Tidy bowl man, right? Tidy bowl. tidy bowl Now that that's that's after health Rick.

Speaker: So before Hellfrey, couldn't show a toilet. You couldn't show a toothbrush. You couldn't show anything that reminded the American public and the sponsors that we are human animals that defecate. and Well, the the I Love Lucy episode where they pulled it because even though Lucy and Desi had twin beds, despite being a married couple with a child, There was a scene where they were both in the bedroom and she was fully clothed but seated on one of the beds.

Speaker: And it was determined that that was just too familiar. They couldn't possibly show that. Weird. And then, you know, later you have the Brady Bunch, you know, you have these divorced or no, wait, I'm sorry. They weren't divorced. They were both widowed, but they were remarried. So second marriage people, but you did not see a toilet on the Brady Bunch. Not ever. Yeah, another thing, you know, when when animated cartoons were shown on television, it was essential to Helfrich and to others, apparently to others more than Helfrich, but the cow, an animated cow, could not be shown without it wearing a skirt.

Speaker: because the others would show that that's how fucked up we were about breasts on television yeah i mean this is absolutely true and um these are the things you find out when you start researching why people behave the way they did and and it was even worse than than that i mean nat king cole a great singer a wonderful performer a wonderful man who happened to be black was was given a show On NBC and Revlon refused to sponsor him because they thought that their lipstick would be thought of as a black product.

Speaker: How do you like that? Gross. Gross. um Absolutely. It happened across the board. i think I think Mad Men sort of deals with that a little bit, that they wanted to start having commercials that specifically targeted Black families because Black families have jobs and money and they buy things. Yeah. so But in the advertisers were so resistive to it. And it's just so gross because they always seem to hide behind. well we can't do that because people won't like it.

Speaker: And we still do that today. You know, people will tell gay couples, oh, you shouldn't adopt because the kids will get made fun of. You know, they're both basically saying, like, don't live the life you want to live because.

Speaker: I'm going to treat you poorly for it and you don't want that. And my kids are going to be little shits to your kids and you don't want that. Well, that's not how it works. yeah You know, I mean, live the life you want to live and then don't bully anybody because really it's the miserable, unhappy people that are not living the life they want to live. ah gay republicans cough cough um that go around hurting other people you know that spend their life discussing like well I'm sorry but we need to check what's in those children's underwear before we know if they can play sports at school like no we don't need to do that and also what is wrong with you

Speaker: But I'm getting on a tangent because i love because i well I smoke pot while I do the show. And it's it's around this part of the show that I start saying, oh, damn, I'm pretty high. It's also the time of the show when we take a short break and read the sponsors' names. And it won't take very long because there aren't that many.

Speaker: but um But we do want to thank our sponsors over on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I. And they give us a little money so we can keep the lights on around here. um Donations. I think donation tiers start at $1 or $2. Really affordable. So if you ever want to do that, that is Ko-Fi.com, where we are still listed as sometimes hilarious horror.

Speaker: Even though we don't have the magazine anymore, that's just how it goes. So we are thanking Allison Huff, Bradley and Fred, Rusty Shackelford, Nemu Ravenfall, That One Fool, Loki, Lilith Ang, and Brianna Simmons. Thanks so much, everybody. Our donors are the best.

Speaker: Now, this actually brings us to our next question, which is... Do people who produce media have an ethical imperative not to offend people?

Speaker: Well, I produce media and I don't. ah No, I sure don't. I mean, I'm not trying to offend people, but I think the stuff I come up with offends people. Yeah, yeah. And I think it should. I think art should poke at people a little bit. Yeah, I wonder if we should parse the difference between offending people and and challenging people.

Speaker: Because i I would hope that that's what I'm doing. I'm not just trying to piss people off. I'm saying, wait a minute, maybe there's another way to see this. Right, right. and Yeah. And that's, I think that's what I try to do too. And I'm using, and the use of language. I mean, you know, I'm writing characters and if I'm writing characters, I'm writing the way these characters talk. And I thought about these characters and I've thought about where they've come from and I've given them backstories, you know, and if they kind of talk like this over here, they're going to talk, you know what mean? Go talk like fucking A, you know what mean? I mean, they're going to talk that way. That's how these people talk. So I always tell my ah folks that don't like, oh, that that's quite adult. Oh, my, that's quite, that's, oh, people don't talk like, yes, they do talk like that a lot. And I know, because I grew up in an Italian family, so I know how they talk. And, you know, yeah.

Speaker: it goes to character. That's how it works. And and the thing is, it can be a very tricky issue because you know, uh, what, what's that movie? Uh, not, not, uh, Oh, uh, Django Unchained. Django Unchained had a great deal of use of the N word. Um,

Speaker: And sure, it it is historically accurate that that word should be included. As a viewer, I might not want to hear that 75 times during a film. You know, I might find that a little much. And if I were a person of color, I'm sure I would be even more resistive to that.

Speaker: You know, Fantasia. has uh on the disney channel there was a warning i think once you play it a few times it goes away but when you play fantasia for the first time it warns you about the character of sunflower i don't know if you know the character i'm referring to Boy, it's been so long. I was a little kid when I saw it. I liked it, but i can't remember. It's the one with the the horses. And there's the different colored horses. And there's blue one. And there's there was the boy and the girl horses. And they you know they dance around and fall in love or whatever.

Speaker: But there is one little donkey called Sunflower. who is not paired up with anyone and they're tending to the hooves of the more conventionally beautiful horses. And it's it's very obviously a slave.

Speaker: um I've heard it referred to by by other names that I will not use here, because like I said, I'm not trying to offend people. But they but Disney puts a warning on that character saying, yes, we realize it's offensive. We're including it for accuracy, for historical accuracy. You know, it would be, you know, they they liken it to like it like a dirty delete. You know, don't pretend you never did this. Stand by it because you did it.

Speaker: And I see that argument. I think it's valid. But I also think that families should have the option to not show that to their kids, to not give them that message. And Disney doesn't do that. They don't offer a version that has the bullshit taken out. And it's not like they don't know that ah some of their bullshit is bullshit. You can't find Song of the South over or to the Disney. i Yeah, I was going to mention that Song of the South isn't available.

Speaker: But, you know, a Little Mermaid has that that split, you know, it's like a three second thing in Under the Sea where the blackfish sings. And it's this little jet blackfish with big red lips doing like an Al Jolson note. And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, when you see it, it's like, my God, this is a very obvious stereotype. How did this get past your sensors?

Speaker: yeah But it's it's still there is the problem. It's still exactly someplace where kids can see it. And if you're going to be the kind of channel that says, oh, we can't have a trans girl in our in our show. We can't do this and that because kids grow up too fast and we can't expose them to know that like gay people exist or whatever. Why is there all that racism?

Speaker: Take it the fuck out. That's bullshit, I think. I think you just, no, no. I mean, trans folks do exist, and they are going to exist, and you're going to meet them, and you're going to like them, or you're not going to like them, as the case may be, as a human. And and that's just the way it is. i mean, you know, you can't you just can't do that to kids, I think. You've got to let them know, look, we're all different. We're all different.

Speaker: Good, you know, but I mean, people I would say. Keeping people trapped in ignorance doesn't help them. Yeah, exactly. we're I mean, we're all, I will say we're all good people.

Speaker: And until somebody proves me It proves that differently. i'll I'll think well of them and and say, oh, you do you. That's you? Okay, fine. You know, it's not my business. You're not taking money out of my pocket. You're not doing anything that that offends me. I don't care. It's you. You go, girl. You do it. You be, you know. I'm going to be honest, man. i have had serious this issue with some trans women, and that's just because it seems like every damn one of them is better at pretty girl eye makeup than I am. And I find that demoralizing. Demoralizing!

Speaker: Yeah, they they they got there they got their shit together on that. like How did you start out life, AMAB, and yet you are running circles? like my My makeup skills, like if you need to look like a zombie, I got you. I got you covered. I can look make half of your face look like a hideous burn.

Speaker: But if I need to make my eyes look less stupid and like my lids are less heavy, I really don't know what I'm doing at all. yeah I see those things on Instagram and Facebook and stuff. These women that are able to just just change their whole faces into all sorts of new you know makeup and and prosthetics and all these things. Amazing.

Speaker: I'm i'm ah stunned. How did you learn how to do that? you know Right. great Probably watching other YouTube videos. um so So listen, one of your books deals with Hitler as a subject matter. And like, I'm gonna be honest, I found the cover to be quite jarring.

Speaker: And it leads me to ask if you use trigger warnings and if you do not, what led you to make that decision? Well, I, yeah I, yeah, I remember that, that question. um Let's see. I wanted to, to, uh, um,

Speaker: Um, i like, you know, what you're trying to do is break through the clutter of all the, all the other things that are happening in the culture around, uh, or in bookstores or whatever. There's a lot of stuff happening there, you know? And I, uh, you know, I thought about it and I thought, well, uh, it's a little comic,

Speaker: It's a sort of a it's not really Hitler. It's sort of his hairstyle, his hairdo and his mustache. And, and instead of eyes, he has little swastikas.

Speaker: That's what the cover looks like. So it's Hitler and it has, and then below it or beneath it or above it, I can't remember. Um, it has in, um, something that kind of looks like, you know, stuff you used to spray on, uh,

Speaker: on uh like world war ii uh what do they call that stuff um that typeface anyway um it it says bewitching hitler And then colon, the coven that beat the Nazis and saved the world, exclamation point.

Speaker: So anybody that kind of looks at it, I would think, I would, ah hoped anyway, would would say, oh, it's it's something about Hitler. And it's something about, it's a coven? What, you know, it's, So maybe they'll see that there's humor here. There's some kind of humor going on. I really never thought of how it would it would trigger somebody, to tell you the truth.

Speaker: You never thought of how swastikas would trigger somebody? No, come on. You're messing with me. No, no. I mean, because, you know, I watched the producers and I thought it was hilarious.

Speaker: ah yeah you know, the the the Broadway show and the movie and all that stuff, Springfield and all that. yeah, I guess I'm so far removed from the Second World War. I never thought of that. But I also never thought about the the neo-Nazis that are out there now with their Hitler stuff, with their you know swastikas and bald heads and all that bullshit. I never i never thought about that because the the story itself is set in 1940.

Speaker: So yeah, all I did was just go with that thematic, sort of that that motif, not not in any way thinking that I would upset anybody. Isn't that interesting?

Speaker: it It is. Is that self-published? Yes. or did a Okay. Yeah. So i however, my wife has said,

Speaker: I'd like to redo that cover. And she's, she's pretty good. You know what I mean? She's pretty bright and she, she sees things that I don't see.

Speaker: And ah she's also a graphic artist. So I thought, oh yeah. All right. You know, if you think that that's a, she didn't tell me why she just said, it just isn't, there's something wrong with that cover.

Speaker: And so, so now you've, ah you've now made me think we gotta do that. Now, how about if we, how about this? We keep the hair, we keep the little mustache, take out the swastikas.

Speaker: What do you think? well i mean i i I am not someone that is filled with visceral dread when I see a swastika.

Speaker: I think mainly of the history, but, you know, I'm not everyone. I'm just me. So, yeah. you know I don't know if if that's something that you want to like workshop and see what people because I mean, if if I'm not sure about something, I will crowdsource it. I'm writing about aliens right now. And what I was trying to do was put them into a modern context and have people I was trying to come up with an insult that jackasses would use to describe the aliens.

Speaker: And you know how sometimes if if like like, let's say, for example, you're racist against Mexicans. So you call all Mexican people by a Mexican name, man or woman, doesn't matter. You just, you know, you call all of them Jose because you're a dick and you can't be bothered to learn their names. So that's what I ended up with people doing. They're calling them all Klaatu.

Speaker: Hey, Klaatu, get the fuck out of my way. Right? and But I wasn't sure because, you know, I'm old. So I wasn't sure if somebody, say, under 30 was going to have any idea what that was or what that means. Did I need to explain it or reference it?

Speaker: you know I think it's perfectly fine to crowdsource that sort of feedback. In ever like like in a in a contemporary society, is it possible to jokingly display a swastika, or is that issue so sensitive that it's it's just not worth it? you know It's like Harry Potter. like No, man, we're just not talking about that anymore because it's too upsetting for the people that are hurt by it.

Speaker: you know we're we're just not doing it and you know fuck that turf if if i may go on that wee tangent i would say um you know if that's if that's what you want to say if that's how it wanted wants to be said and you're saying klaatu nick to barata that that from the the day the earth stood still from the movie and uh i get it i think it's fine i don't think it's harmful who are you going to piss off an alien well but also like will people understand it is it a reference so you know yeah but but you got to do like them that's how it is that's you mean is it another out you know because you could use another alien you could call them out for war yeah okay like there's there's lots to choose from but i think klaatu has a certain

Speaker: antiquated quality about it that when that if you say Klaatu, you're not just a racist against aliens person. You're kind of old. do You like your movies in black and white. Like that's, you know. No, I would say, you know, if there's a problem Look it up. Someone will look it up. and' make me That's the way I say it. I hope it works. I hope it works. Like we said, we want to we want to challenge people and not necessarily confront or right offend them. so It's funny. You mentioned

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, good. you mean and And that's one thing I can't do. you know, if you're working in ah in a real business situation where you've got focus groups and all sorts of stuff to to show, you know, people and decide, okay, that enough people like it that way, I'll use it that way, which I think i hate that.

Speaker: I truly do. I mean, you know, What about me? What about what I think? What about, how about the guy? Again, it's very, it's very. Literal means literal.

Speaker: That's what it means. Literally. Don't make me come over there, dictionary. But I mean, when, you know, when, what was I thinking here? When you, the cultural theorists say the creator or the author no longer holds a position,

Speaker: a privileged position as to what the text means. Meaning is made at the intersection of text and reader. that's That's how they say it, as I recall. I remember it because I think it's essential.

Speaker: You know, I think I know what it means. I don't know what other people think it means. you know but they're going to make it mean something else based on whatever they bring to the text so um where do i fit in well all i can do is tell my story right and tell it the best way i know how and try to tell it with a you know good grammar and good punctuation and all that oh dude do you know the john clee's story about that No.

Speaker: John Cleese was talking to a fan in America. Yeah. And the fan said, you know that parrot sketch? And he's like, yeah. Can can I ask you something about that?

Speaker: And the fan wanted to affirm that the parrot sketch was about the Vietnam War. Yeah. He was so sure of it and Cleese was just dumbfounded like how the fuck could it possibly but you know what?

Speaker: If you think about that in context, you can see it because there are all these people saying it's bad, it's wrong, people are dying, this is not okay and the government is saying no no they're probably pining for the fjords.

Speaker: That's right. That's right. He's sleeping. He's sleep he's resting. Right. so like Yeah. So it's it really is in in how you look at it. And if that guy wanted to spend the rest of his life sure that it was about the Vietnam War, he could. No one could stop him.

Speaker: Yeah, that's true. You know, i have a I have an alien story, too. It's called One Second Summer. And it's it's a novel. Well, it was a film that I wrote. I was trying to write like something Spielbergian, you know, something very heartfelt and big, something big. like This would be a really big movie, I thought, if if anybody ever would read it. And and so, i but I turned it into the novel and it's One Second Summer and the aliens are, they're all they've always been here.

Speaker: And they live in the sea. and And they come up and, well, you have to read the book, but it's it's very funny. They're very funny. They're funny aliens. And I can't help myself but writing funny stuff. I don't know why.

Speaker: It's just, it seems like it resonates better with people, you know? Are you sarcastic in real life? Sarcastic, yeah, a little bit little bit. Funny and sarcastic, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, because you know like most of my writing life, I thought that I was a horror writer because I love horror and people die a lot in my books. and when I started talking to real editors and real publishers, they're like, you know, this is a black comedy, right? Like, what?

Speaker: Oh, no, no, no, I'm homaging Stephen King and Jack Ketchum and George Romero. And they're like, no, dude, Christopher Moore. Like, OK, he's great, but that's.

Speaker: That I, damn it. No wonder I don't know how to market anything. No, I think it's great. I think mixing genres is, Hollywood loves that.

Speaker: You know, they i I mean, you know, I just watched this thing called Mayday ah with Ryan Reynolds and the Kenneth Branagh. It's new. It's on Netflix and they were pushing it on some of the talk shows. And i so I watch it. Why not? Brahma is great.

Speaker: And a Ryan Reynolds is like this, you know, the smart ass. He's always, play he always plays smart asses in any of them. He always has the funny little asides and the goofy shit that, you know, he says the funny stuff.

Speaker: And the movie is like, you know, I sat there on one hand. It's like, It's sort of a drama, but what the heck, what is it? There's something that didn't feel right about that movie because of the the funny stuff in it, which was weird to me because I always think you should have humor in the movies, but he was like the one trick pony. He was the guy that was always going to say the funny stuff, you know, and and you should watch it and let me know what you think. i don't know.

Speaker: Something, something's up with that movie. Just me.

Speaker: I got nothing else on. No, I actually don't have Netflix, but I am always down for putting a laugh, especially in like a horror film or a drama film. Cause the thing is that fear like laughter are involuntary reactions. You can try to stop yourself from laughing, but it might not work. You might have to laugh anyway.

Speaker: And even if you're trying not to be scared, sometimes it'll just get you. Yeah. Yeah. Like I brought up with Abbott Costello v. Frankenstein. I mean, that's Abbott Costello. meeting frankenstein and the wolf man and all the other guys and uh you know it's it's hilarious there's a lot of funny shit in it so yeah i think humor and horror seem to work pretty well you can get away with it and it's not going to be too bad but you but you but there are moments where you don't want the humor to happen it's got to be you know it's got to really be yep it's got to get you so grab you

Speaker: Well, interesting because if you ask me, i would say that I love it when horror tropes are put into other genres. But no sooner do those words leave my mouth than I have to say that I hate Twilight so much.

Speaker: um But ah when I was a kid... I don't know if if you're familiar with the kids author, Norman Bridwell. He's no longer with us, sadly, but he did Clifford the Big Red Dog. That was his main thing. that's yeah yeah But he also did a book called How to Care for Your Monster.

Speaker: And it read like a pet care book. But the pets were the universal monsters, Mummy, Dracula, Frankenstein's monster and and the wolf the Wolfman.

Speaker: So and as a kid, it fascinated me that those two things were compatible. And just the very idea of that stuck with me for so long.

Speaker: And I didn't even know yet that I was going to be a horror fan, like ah a serious, autistically focused, lifelong horror fan. Didn't know it was coming yet because I hadn't seen Night of the Living Dead. And that's when I started making zombie maps and shit. like Okay, I'm making my whole life about this. Everybody get ready.

Speaker: Let me ask you something in the confession that I don't know if you've read it or page through it or or whatever, but this is the first book that i i I didn't use any humor in because I didn't find anything funny in it. The the horror is real. The horror is the people that are supposed to love you and help you. Fuck you up. And and.

Speaker: And then there's other you know devices that are used to make sure that the tropes that everyone expects is in there, like the monster or the devil, in this case, that shows up.

Speaker: um so But there's no humor in that one. I just couldn't. have to say, i i was not able to read it yet. I'm at like this weird tech standstill. because my kindle is not working right but my phone is also like super full i have to get a new phone because it's i i can't even update it um so so yeah i'm at a standstill but i am stoked to read it and you're actually are you doing a reading from your book at the end of the episode is that what we're gonna have from from i think yes i think i i did i i sent you a uh

Speaker: me reading about five minutes of the just the kind of opening part the first chapter i i had to cut a lot of stuff out but you know just to sort of paint some pictures as to what how we begin the story which begins with ah a fire and a death and uh and that's that's what the that's what the reading is about with less than five minutes Cool. So we'll have that after the end, you know, at the end of the episode, we'll have it. And we'll also have a link in the description so you can find from Bob his videos and all the books that are for sale. the that this are Your screenplay adaptations, are those available as well?

Speaker: Based on your screenplay, are those up at Amazon yet? The actual screenplays? No, the um the like your your novelizations of your screen. Oh, I see. Yes. No, there are six of them up on on or on on my site there, but and they linked Amazon. But so I got six on Amazon and i got two more I'm working on. I'm working on a a Christmas, a Christmas, but not really a holiday story. And believe me, this isn't a Hallmark Channel holiday story. uh it's kind of dark and it's kind of and it's set in new years instead of christmas because i like the concept of endings and beginnings all at the same time okay wanted to do something with that you know and it's about an old fart that lives in a nursing home but uh keeps running away from the nursing home and one night he meets a tuxedoed stranger

Speaker: And then, yeah, the story, you know, sort of goes from there. It's it's it's pretty good. I mean, it maybe indicts the... the what would you call it, the nursing home industry a little bit, you know, because we shove all these old people in nursing homes by the end of their lives. And the I talk about that a little bit. and And then, you know, then the story, it's actually very funny. It's very darkly funny, but it's funny. And the characters in it are kind of fun.

Speaker: I think it'd be a great movie, but in fact, it was a great movie. I have to ask, did you see The Rule of Jenny Penn? with John Lithgow and. no this sounds good. Let me write that down. Oh, dude. Yeah, you got to see it. You got to.

Speaker: It's and I mean, I feel bad recommending a John Lithgow movie because he's in the the new Harry Potter thing and I'm like, is that everybody that agreed to do that? Because fuck him. What does he need the money? he doesn't. Come on.

Speaker: that's not That's not okay to help bad people make money. But, you know, the the meta platforms is about as far as I go. I use meta platforms, even though I know that.

Speaker: Zuckerberg makes money off me. And oh and I guess i I buy things at Amazon. That's kind of evil. But the thing about evil there, first of all, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. But the other thing is that if you're poor and disabled and you need things delivered to your house, you don't have to feel bad about doing that.

Speaker: yeah But, yeah you know, if if I subscribe to the Washington Post or the New York Times, I'm directly supporting fascism now because those people are bad, too. And so it's like harder and harder to just buy things and have things and do things without having to remind yourself, damn it, I'm supporting fascists.

Speaker: Yeah. But what am I going to do? Not have cable because both the cable companies are fascist companies. i mean, our choices are Comcast versus AT&T. You know, that's just two sides of the same fast coin. Yeah, i hear I hear you. My wife refuses to go to Target.

Speaker: She won't go. oh yeah. Nope, nope, nope. no She'll do Amazon before Target because of the the way they treat DEI stuff. and Yeah, well, that was obscene what they did. i mean, just to come out and be like, yeah, we could be inclusive and equitable and, you know, just just embrace diversity, but yeah we're not gonna.

Speaker: We're not going to. There was a rapist that doesn't want us to do it, so we're going to listen to him instead. Like, no, of course no one should chop. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny. i i We were talking about censorship before, and i was just I had a flash. I did this short movie called The Miracles on Honey Bee Hill. It was maybe 20 minutes long. And it's a story it's a story of gay marriage.

Speaker: And, but it uses kids. The cast is all kids and it's told like a fairy tale. And it's not as creepy as it sounds. It's pretty interesting, actually. And because it's trying to point out, you know, the behavior of how adults ah behave with gay, lesbian love.

Speaker: and And God himself, God, well, at least the family the family guy God with the big, long beard, you know, that kind of God shows up in the movie. And so this got me in. Remember, we shot this in Tennessee.

Speaker: ah arguably one of the red estates in the union, right? So, so ah you know, and it wins all these awards and then it it gets, I get called on the carpet. my my my The president of the university called me and said, Dr. Pondillo, you thanked me in that movie. You thanked me at the end of that movie.

Speaker: And I said, well, yes, sir. I thank every you i thank you in all my movies. and I really appreciate to have a chance, you know, to do it. And he said, well, this is this is not good. You thank me. ah The reason is because he was trying to get the Tennessee Senate to approve a science building.

Speaker: And the Tennessee Senate finds out about my movie and they investigate me. The Tennessee Senate investigates me about the movie. Amazing.

Speaker: I mean, that eventually got me. Yeah, eventually within ah the the next year, I did one more movie after that. And then I thought, fuck this. I think that's enough. I think i'm it's time to retire. If that's the way people are going to behave, I'm good. so But if you watch the movie, it's very sweet and very I think very funny. And God in it, the the character of God, is played by David Lawrence, who is a Hollywood actor. And he's he's really good.

Speaker: And the kids are great. and You know, is there's nothing about it that's that's, and yet, at one of the premieres, a guy came up to me and said, you know, when I see two women together like that, they're two little girls, and they're completely clothed, and their parents were on the set, and they signed the agreement to do it, and all that stuff. Nobody, kids were playing games during Boomer. Okay, okay, but the thing he was envisioning in his head, that was gross, man. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. He was saying, you know, I'm seeing scissoring, I'm seeing this, I'm seeing that. And I'm thinking, my the sir, ah that's not the movie I made. i don't know what you're saying or where that's coming. And also, I mean, those are in your head thoughts, not say out loud to a stranger thoughts.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah. And this guy said he was a pastor, of course. He was a pastor. Yeah, and a lot of pastors. There was one guy, can't again, I can't remember his name, who wrote who wrote, you know, this is a movie of the devil. This is, you know, dastardly. this How dare they do this? What's wrong with the the college and all that stuff?

Speaker: I'll tell you what, man, there are two kinds of people that will identify themselves as a pastor. Two kinds of pastors, I should say. One, a pastor that is there to help you and he wants you to know that.

Speaker: And the other is the person who is trying to lord it over you and seem like they're more trustworthy because they are a pastor. All right. So, you know, we're actually nearing the end of our time. So this is the time that I say, was there anything you wanted to talk about that we did not get to?

Speaker: No, but ah I'm good that we talked about so many things. It's been a delight. I mean, it's just been. You know, i don't I don't talk about things like this at all, actually, with anybody ever. and So it's ah it's pretty cool. It was great to remember some things and some some hard things, but, you know, that's life. And...

Speaker: I really enjoyed it. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you having me on. It really was great. It's it's ah it's my pleasure. Now, I saw when, when you know, we I do some back and forth with the guests to talk, you know, and sort of nail down what we want to talk about. And one of the things I came across was this statement.

Speaker: everything that enchants deceives and uh and that that feels true but like my gut feeling is to be resistive to that message what is your relationship to that sentiment well it's not me talking that's uh that's socrates or i'm sorry that's plato plato said that that uh socrates Yeah, not so crazy. Plato said, that enchants deceives. And that was a, um what would you call it? a a

Speaker: A catalyst or something that made me think, Hey, I got a story I think I could write about that. And and that's where Radioland came from. I got a book called Radio, a novel called Radioland. And it's a, I guess you'd call it a fictionalized memoir. It's not really my life. It's somebody else's life, but it's my life.

Speaker: You know what I mean? I mean, I used a lot the things I Yes, I used a lot of the things I saw in radio, the people I dealt with, the the capitalism and the, you know, the business itself. And I thought, well, let's go back to 1964 when top radio was booming, like ah top 40 radio was booming. And it was just the beginning of top 40 and the Beatles and the coming of, you know, the the British invasion and the Stones and all those guys. And I was thinking, and, and,

Speaker: And then I remembered how I reacted when I first, you know, started listening to radio and how it really changed me. And this was, i mean, i was 12 years old and I was like, I got to be in radio.

Speaker: I love these guys. I got to be in radio, you know. And that was the thing that set me on my on my way. And so anyway, I use that and I i tell the story called Radioland and it it sort of, it's a journey between the little boy telling the story and the old guy at the end, who's really telling the story at at the NPR conference.

Speaker: the npr um what is that called? The, the, the, the bus that the, the, the story core it's called NPR story core, and you can go there and you can tell your story of your love, of your life, of whatever. And then that stuff is used on the air and then it's given to the library of Congress.

Speaker: So that's what this guy is doing. He's telling this whole story back to front. And, um, it is, I think it's a very sweet story and funny, very funny and and makes a lot of, i don't know, makes a lot of people uncomfortable, I'm sure, especially in radio.

Speaker: Sure. but But that's where it comes from. It's it's a a quote from Socrates. a Plato, Plato. Sorry, sorry Plato. are Yeah, I think you'll get over it.

Speaker: All right. We also like to give guests an opportunity to ask me a question if they have one. So if you do, now is the time. Wow. Well, you are you um um where are you? I don't even know where you are. Where where you are you broadcasting from?

Speaker: I am in my living room in Ann Arbor, Michigan. and No kidding. Yeah, i live ah in a, like, literally the cheapest apartment complex in the city. Technically, it's Pittsfield Township. Like, if I were to call the police, which I don't, but if I were to call the police, we would get Pittsfield Township Police, not Ann Arbor City Police. Yeah, I get you.

Speaker: I don't know that would increase our survival rates or not, but yes, that's that's where I am. I understand. Yeah, that's that's great. Well, I mean, i just I just love it. I just love these podcast ideas because many people don't know this, but during a there was a break, and during the break, you had to go deal with your dog, Millie. It was wonderful and lovely. Little girl. And, and, you know, and you're in your living room and I'm in my office, not much of an office, but it's, you know, where I keep my stuff. And, and we're just talking like normal people. That's what the internet does. And that's what these tech advancements do. They allow regular people with modest amounts of money to still do things and, and reach people. Like, yeah I mean, my show doesn't have an enormous audience, but it's not because I can't get one. I just don't have one yet.

Speaker: You know, because there are i mean, we know how many people there are that just like hit their mark. They found their niche and it just exploded. You know, I don't know if you know Andrew Ray. He has a show called Binging with Babish, and he's one of my favorite Internet success stories because it started out as this little cooking show.

Speaker: where he would make a dish from a movie or a cartoon, you know, he'd do like the to crayon grilled cheese sandwich from the Simpsons or something and make these the cheese and all these different colors. So, yeah but then his show, I mean, he's got millions of subscribers now. He's, he's rich. He's a rich person. Like he bought a home in New York city.

Speaker: So he he's that kind of rich. So and and I love that. And plus, he's the kind of person that once he had some money, he's given out scholarships. He's inviting regular people to go on fancy food trips like he gives back as soon as he had enough for himself. He started giving back like John Oliver, you know.

Speaker: He's another guy comes to comes to America, becomes a comedian. And and as soon as he gets a little fame under his belt, the first thing he does is start a standup show where he can feature other standups and get good comedian scene.

Speaker: And that's, yeah that's what I love. i love people turning it back around saying, thanks for the help. Let me help other people. Yeah, um absolutely. Because in the end, what the hell, you know,

Speaker: mean, I don't want to get, ah what difference does it make to all this money if you don't do something good with it? Yeah, that's like, I can't imagine being like Elon Musk, you know, and having enough money to be like, okay, you know what, let's make it so every veteran has a place to live and enough money to live on, BIP.

Speaker: You know, but he doesn't do it, even though he could with basically the cash under his couch cushions, you know, it's not even it it wouldn't even hurt him financially to be like, all right, every kid, you know, even like the Dolly imagination library that the government friggin defund. yeah. Best of our ability. Like he could pick that up. He could do anything to make people's lives better, but he doesn't. He whines like a little bitch about how unfair everything is and nobody treats him right. Like he was an Iron Man and he's still not cool. How how is that even a thing?

Speaker: How is that possible? If I was an Iron Man, i i would be way, like, but my all my social media, like, usernames would change. Instead of Wednesday, leave Friday, they would be like, I was an Iron Man.

Speaker: i would i would, like, live off that fame forever. And he's just, ugh. I despise that dude. But, you know, that that's not exactly an edgy viewpoint. i don't like the megalomaniac that gave America to fascists. Like, oh, really? You don't?

Speaker: Okay. So, my friend, it is time for the Mad Lib. The Mad Lib is happening now. Oh, yes. We're going to start with some adjectives. I need one, two, three, four adjectives, please.

Speaker: uh okay adjectives um great um brilliant okay i'm writing it down um outstanding

Speaker: I'm talking about the show, I think. Great. for on One more. ah One more. What's a good, what's a good one? Great. Great. Great. Great

Speaker: exceptional all right how's that all right and now we need some singular nouns look like we need one two three four singular nouns singular nouns um Hmm.

Speaker: Hmm. Hmm. Uh, now like, uh, let's see. Remember from school it shows, uh, uh, how did it go? Subject or I can't remember. Anyhow is a person, place, or thing. There we go. First place. All right. Um, uh, flower pot.

Speaker: Oh, that. as Okay. Three more. Okay. Any more. Oh, flower pot.

Speaker: Toilet came to mind. Maybe I should put it in just for the fun of it. Toilet. All right. Two more. right. Let's see. um Walter, my dog.

Speaker: Walter, he's a good old boy. And I think. And one more. One more. um Let's see.

Speaker: Shnozola. schnauzola and that remember jimmy duranda used to talk about the schnauzola indeed and uh boo on you for making me spell that now i need some plural nouns looks like there was two to plural nouns um frying pans uh okay okay what else two more what one more one more um a number

Speaker: Let me look around the room here. um Candles.

Speaker: Candles. All right, I need a place. um

Speaker: some funny face Some funny place. hu Yeah, Washington DC. No, let's see. Swaziland.

Speaker: swaziland okay all right i need a verb ending in ing need two of those actually uh groping

Speaker: what is a funny verb um

Speaker: Oh, come on. You can tighten this up right so I can get right. All right. Groping and a wiping.

Speaker: right. And yeah, we do take out the long pauses in post. we're We're nice that way. I need a part of the body.

Speaker: Navel. Okay. And a type of liquid.

Speaker: Uh, carbolic acid.

Speaker: Wow, putting my spelling voodoo to the test. Wait, carbolic liquid? Acid. Acid. Carbolic acid. That's one way to say goodbye. Carbolic acid. You know, one time I was doing this and somebody said acid and I just put LSD because that was what my mind are abbreviates acid to. Yeah. Yeah. Whoops. Right. um yeah i need I need one verb.

Speaker: um fart is that a verb i suppose fart fart fart and a part of the body plural um uh let's see a plant out there earlobes earlobes all right this is called warning severe weather Our radar shows a line of great weather stretching from the Midwest Plains all the way to the coast of Swaziland.

Speaker: This weather pattern is producing brilliant thunderstorms with heavy rains, frying pans gusting up to 80 miles per hour, and hail the size of candles.

Speaker: Tornado warnings are in effect for most of the viewing area. Hmm. A funnel cloud was spotted groping across an open field and destroying every flower pot in its path.

Speaker: Remember, in the event of an outstanding tornado, head to the basement or climb into the nearest toilet and pull a walter over you so that your navel is protected.

Speaker: If you're out driving around in your schnozzola, be on the lookout for flash wiping in low-lying areas. If you get caught in a rushing carbolic acid, climb out of your vehicle and fart for your life.

Speaker: stay tuned to this channel and keep your earlobes to the sky for exceptional weather related updates and there we have it irreverent brilliant it was great uh you know working with you on that right on yeah well you know that's that's where creativity lives inside the method bob it was great to have you here thank you so much for your time and your stories um we will have links in the description for bob's work and do stay tuned after the outro music ends for a reading from bob and we will see everybody next week

Speaker: The Confession, read by its author, Bob Pondillo.

Speaker: It was a Thursday night in mid-December 1958 in North Philadelphia. Christmas decorations were already up when the flames came for the McGuire house.

Speaker: It arrived the way fire does, without warning and without mercy for the small lives sleeping inside. By the time the hook and ladder trucks got there, the house was fully involved, as the fire captain said.

Speaker: a dozen firefighters in heavy gear worked the blaze grimly and efficiently, professionals all who understood that some battles can only be contained, not one.

Speaker: Emergency lights strobed red and blue against the winter dark painting the snow-dusted street in the colors of catastrophe. A North Philly police officer stood sentry where his cruiser blocked the street and waved the ambulance through.

Speaker: Other officers held the eastern perimeter. Neighbors emerged from their attached row houses, coats thrown over pajamas, watching in shocked silence as the McGuire Place burned down.

Speaker: People who knew there was nothing to do but watch and pray and could not bring themselves to go back inside. Grandma O'Toole stood closer to the blaze than the first responders preferred. She was in her mid-sixties, a widow, a devout Catholic, a woman who had survived long enough to know that survival is unforeseeably random.

Speaker: She held rosary beads in her hand without quite knowing when she'd taken them out. Saints, preserve us, she whispered. She didn't know in those first minutes that she was asking the saints to preserve something doomed and unsalvageable.

Speaker: Inside the smoke-filled foyer, little Alice lay semi-conscious on the floor. Her eyes fluttered open and closed. The smoke was thick and had a pungent chemical taste like diesel fuel.

Speaker: Through the haze, she could see her parents lying face down, motionless, as ravenous embers crackled on the backs of their clothes and legs, eating away, unhurried.

Speaker: Alice could not have told you afterward exactly what she understood in those moments. She was only seven years old then. But her small psyche had recorded those horrible images, impressions in her mind that she could not name.

Speaker: a Kensington man, a fellow named Doyle, who had been on the force for eleven years, pried open the front door with his Halligan bar. the now unquenchable fire lunged at his face as it blasted toward the outside air he went in anyway he swept alice up with one arm and checked her parents with his hand pressed to each of their backs the walls dripped flame another window exploded from the pressure of heat The ceiling cracked, ignited, and crashed down onto both bodies, missing Doyle by inches as he came out of the house. With little Alice clutched to his chest, he emerged into the cold night, and Alice's limp frame stirred slightly, a movement that meant still alive, that meant the worst had escaped the little one.

Speaker: her grandma saw it and broke through the cordon alice ma'am please no step back the ambulance worker gently pushed her away he was accustomed to people who couldn't stop themselves from running toward the danger that was destroying what they loved Doyle transferred Alice to the ambulance worker's waiting arms.

Speaker: Alice fell in and out of consciousness and saw the fire reflected in her grandmother's glasses, small twin images of the blaze dancing in the lenses.

Speaker: Hell's fire made miniature. Graham, Alice mumbled. It's okay, Allie. I'm here, pet. The ambulance worker and grandma moved quickly.

Speaker: S.E. O'Toole looked back at the firefighter and shouted the impossible, a Save them! Doyle stared at her. He looked to the house.

Speaker: There was nothing in there left to save.