Transcript
Speaker: Greetings friends. Thank you for joining us on the mentally odd cast where each week our guest regale us with tales of the creative process through the lens of addiction recovery mental and emotional health trauma treatment medication all that there because we believe that no matter what you are going through you are not alone and you can make art about it art helps Find us on Ko-Fi, that's K-O-F-I, to support the podcast and get all the back issues of Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine.
Speaker: You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday, and we can be found on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I. If you want to see who's coming up on the show, what we've been talking about, or show us a little support.
Speaker: ah This week, we are talking to PJ Verfall, who is the author of four Splatterpunk novels, with more coming. He writes splatterpunk, splatterpunk, I should say, not extreme. And we'll get into the differences later. ah He enjoys reading extremes, extreme, but he personally needs to have a method to the mayhem when he writes. um Dude, we always start by asking guests to tell us about the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So let's hear it.
Speaker: I think this is and almost going to be a disappointment, but um it was actually the 31 Dracula movie. Oh, wow. Yeah, the local PBS station used to run it every Halloween. Nice. so my mom like decided, well, he could see that. Little did she know that soon after that, I would discover a Creature Double Feature and see everything Hammer had ever done.
Speaker: Right, right. And would you say that that, like, I mean, I imagine that put you on a path if you were already craving horror at a young age.
Speaker: Um, yeah, no, ah having Creature Double Feature, especially, I mean, like growing up in Philadelphia, you had Creature Double Feature on 48 and over on 17, you had Dr. Shock. So you had like choices every Saturday for like what horror you wanted to watch.
Speaker: Oh, wow. Yeah. And then on top of it, like, you know, our parents, well, I mean, we were practically free range anyway, but. And on top of it, it's like they're they're playing it on Saturday on TV. How bad could it be?
Speaker: Yeah, that I think that was the thinking, because we had Sir Graves Gastly on Saturday, but then the next horror show was on a different channel, and that was our creature feature.
Speaker: And ah so we actually had two in a row instead of having to choose. So I feel fortunate having heard what what you just said about having to to pick. I mean, yeah, options are always good, but give me give me all the horror. There are no TiVos yet. I want to see it all the time.
Speaker: So I guess what my question is then is how much time passed before, between like the time you were first exposed to horror and the time you started creating it?
Speaker: Um, I mean, I wrote for myself for a long time, but I was busy with music. Okay. You know, I've got, uh, decades in punk rock at this point.
Speaker: And, um, You know, those were those were my two loves reading and music. And well, I got to do the first one first. And then, know, I just eventually decided that, you know, enough diddling around on my on my own time, I'd actually see if I could actually.
Speaker: oh I hate to use these words, but live up to my potential.
Speaker: So so have you have you lived up to your potential? Well, I'm pretty sure that's that's a depends on who you ask. Yeah, I know that feeling. if you ask If you ask me teacher from my ah second grade gifted class, probably not. Uh-huh.
Speaker: Yeah, I was often told that I was nowhere near my potential. And, you know, in hindsight, it's like, well, if any one of you assholes would have diagnosed by ADHD or autism, maybe we could have worked on that. But alas, females in the 70s and 80s, no, nobody knew how to do that.
Speaker: um Okay, so let's talk splatterpunk. Now, I recently tried my hand at some splatterpunk for the first time. and Because typically I'm into like psychological horror, black comedy, stuff like that. So what made you choose Splatterpunk as a focus?
Speaker: Well, um the first book, i have I have to admit, Faceless was written. i was coming off a knee surgery and stuck in a chair and cranky.
Speaker: i mean so So it was cathartic. Yeah, I just, you know, you can't do anything. You're just stuck sitting there. you're irritated with the whole world and anything you want to do is verboten.
Speaker: But you do have a laptop. Okay. So how how did that translate in your first book? Like if we read your first book, could we tell that you were going through something at the time?
Speaker: It's the nastiest of the four books. It's definitely, i mean, it's got a definite viewpoint. It's got definitely something to say, um but it is also the most, fine, if you want to play, let's play.
Speaker: um Nice. I love it. I love it. Now, you know that there is a difference between Splatterpunk and extreme horror. Now, my guess is that the distinction is about whether or not a story has sociopolitical elements.
Speaker: Am I understanding that right? ah mean More or less, it's basically... In Splatterpunk, the the the mayhem is to try and say something else. you know And in Extreme, the mayhem, that's the point.
Speaker: Okay. you know And both are equally valid and equally fun. it's just how I write. you know i it's just how i write like i can't get I'm not sure that I would say, and and this is like a personal opinion about my own tastes, I would say that extreme horror is less vital and important than splatterpunk. Just because of of how I view the purpose of art, you know?
Speaker: and that i read a book once, it was it was sent to me as an ARC, and that's the main reason I finished it. um And it was just about these two dudes, these two young privileged a-holes that took this trip and all they wanted to do was take drugs and hurt people.
Speaker: And it was awful. It was just like the whole thing was awful from beginning to end. and like the writing was certainly immersive. I was feeling how awful it was, but I kept waiting for there to be some sort of theme, some kind of moral statement, something, anything just saying that this is wrong.
Speaker: And, you know, one of them got effed up physically, but it wasn't, you know, it was just a ah stroke of of luck. So i don't I don't understand the value of that kind of writing personally, but i would I would guess that it's the same kind of escapism that, like, people who read romance novels.
Speaker: Like, no, this is this is not real. This is not real life. It's just something I want to feel right now. Is is that is that possible? Yeah, no, actually, um I think a lot of horror is actually... it's The reason to read it is not that far off from reading fantasy.
Speaker: You know, it's just a different way to go with it. um And that's you know that's fine and dandy. I mean, i i Lord knows I read enough of it.
Speaker: But, you know, it's sort of like some some days you're in the mood... For Friday the 13th. And some days you're in the mood for Frontiers.
Speaker: Who is in the mood for Frontiers? Other than that guy being unmistakably incredibly hot. I don't. Just because he's hot like in another movie. Have you seen um He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not with ah Audrey Tattoo? No.
Speaker: She's a erotomaniac, and she's in love with Samuel LeBahun, who's the main guy from Frontiers. And, ah yeah, it's it's something else, man. But, yeah, that's that's the thing, is that if it's a bright, sunny day, and I'm like in a mood to watch some horror, I don't... I mean, Saw is probably not what I'm going to put Hostile is probably not where I'm going with that.
Speaker: But... At the same time, I might be just as likely to watch. like We watched ah Bad CGI Gator. That's literally the title. We watched that last night. so so I like the truth in advertising, actually. Right? Right? I mean, it's it's like even more snakes on a plane than snakes on a plane.
Speaker: No, so some some part of me really appreciates just going, yeah, it's just crappy CGI gator doing stuff. Well, and you don't find out until halfway through the movie that it can fly because it's bad CGI and nobody cares.
Speaker: Honestly, i've recently went back and watched the original Anaconda and I had a much fonder opinion of that film than it deserved.
Speaker: ah Yeah, it's pretty cartoony when you watch it now. I'll tell you what, though, that new Anaconda with ah with ah Jack Black and and Paul Rudd, that shit is hilarious. I enjoyed it way, way more than I thought I would, and far more than the original.
Speaker: But yeah, no, ah like, it was actually John, worse than the CGI in that film was Jon Voight's accent. ah Yes, that's true. I kind of wonder how much money he made for that movie, because, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. That's one of those things where it's like, oh did he need to like re-up his SAG insurance or what? Because, yikes. Of course, it also seems like Eric Stoltz showed up, looked around, saw what kind of movie he was in, and you know got bit on the wang and had to hide out for most of the movie.
Speaker: And which problem was probably quite happy about that. Right? Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: Like, yeah, I'll just read this script they sent me for Caprica. um All right. So, um well, who who are you reading in extreme? who Like, if i I don't know anything about extreme horror and I want to get into it, who do you recommend?
Speaker: Let's see, Robert Essig, ah Commissar. and like, after that, we start to get into arguments about who's extreme and who's...
Speaker: <unk>terpunk like I actually like the the honesty Judith Sonnet has with it. She'll like point to some of her books and go, that's extreme. And she'll point to other books and go, but that's Splatterpunk. you know And I think um there's an ongoing argument with with Wrath, James White, about whether or not... And you know I think that's the same thing with his stuff. It's like sometimes it's just extreme and sometimes, yeah, there's something deeper that he's trying to get to here.
Speaker: But like Essek is usually pretty straightforward, extreme. Benetti, like bizarro extreme. um Stuart Bray is pretty extreme. Jason Nicky.
Speaker: i mean, there's a lot of good writing happening out there. That's why I was like, you know, I always take the attitude. It's look, make sure it's understood. I don't dislike extreme. You know, and I'm like, like even...
Speaker: Film-wise, I'm like perfectly happy. you know My wife and I were watching Jason X the other night, so like i have no high ground.
Speaker: Yeah, I feel that way as well. Because you look at all the bad shark movies on Tubi and it's like, we've seen all these. I want to watch the Shark and Saw Prison Break Nightmare again.
Speaker: world. Yeah. But actually, have you have you seen the Shark and Saw Prison Break Nightmare? Because that's the movie that stars all the porn stars. Tracy Lords is a police detective trying to figure out what's going on with the prison break. Everybody in it's a porn star.
Speaker: I'm sure it has to be better than the the last Danzig film where he hired nothing but porn stars. ah i i I made it like 10 minutes into Veronica and it's like, even I went, okay, life is too short.
Speaker: wow wow you know okay so here's here's a philosophical question for you who ultimately gets to decide whether a work is splatterpunk or extreme is it the readers is it the publisher or the creator Well, I, I, you know, it's like, I'd have to say the creator just because they know what they were going for. If you don't get it, that's, you know, that's still doesn't change what he was going or he or she were going for, or they, or, you know, there, there was still a point to it, you know, not everybody's going to get it.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: You know, it's, I mean, like you could, you could watch a film like Allah interior and you could see it in two totally different ways. If you want us just see it as a blood festival. Yeah. You can totally see it that way, you know, and I could see how you could see it that way. Now, if you want to see it as a treatise on um responsibility and motherhood, you could also do that.
Speaker: It's just, you know, the viewer, like they create their own perspective of how they see something, but it doesn't change how it was created.
Speaker: Okay. Alright. Now what about in terms of people that... like ah Creators that don't really... like or value the work that they're best known for. Like, Tchaikovsky hated the Nutcracker Suite. He thought it was, it was like, his worst work.
Speaker: And that, to me, like, that's the thing that everyone thinks of when they think of Tchaikovsky. Or Alec Guinness, you know? He did not like Star Wars. He was embarrassed that he was in it. He thought it was a pain in the ass. How many people recognized him from it? So...
Speaker: You know, i mean, sure, they're allowed to feel that way. But as somebody who intakes a lot of media, I mean, ouch, you know? At the same time, it's like, you know, once once you've made the decision to be in something or write something and release it, it's kind of out of your hands.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. You know, it's it's out in the world now and people are going to perceive it how they want to perceive it. And, you know, All you can do is take an attitude of, well, if you ask me, this is what I actually wanted.
Speaker: But I don't... i You know, at the at the same time, it's like... you You did it. You put it out in the world. You know, the... like Tchaikovsky, and I actually agree with his opinion on this, that that it is his poorest work.
Speaker: um And this is just because my grandfather was very into Tchaikovsky and I know these things, unfortunately. um At the same time, you always had the shredded and never let it see the light of day option.
Speaker: Yep. Or, you know, you could pull a Stephen King and then years later just be like, you know what, that's out of print now and it's staying there. I mean, McCammon did that for years.
Speaker: His first four books were out of print for years because he thought he was still learning to be a writer when he wrote them. Oh, wow. I did not know that. Yeah, he had to be talked back into it. And like it's a shame, too, that he felt that way. because like And again, this comes back to it.
Speaker: Bale, as a book, is splatterpunk before there was splatterpunk. The word hadn't even been... like Nobody had come up with the word yet, but it's definitely there.
Speaker: Wow. Who did invent the term? Do you know? was it Craig's background? No. Oh, God, I forget. I'm like, I am so terrible with names when put on on the spot. No, it um Judith is going to kill me for this if she hears this.
Speaker: Oh, no. Like, I do know- I do know who did it, but no, it was like from a a ah short story piece at first. It was like, came up with around like 1984, I think.
Speaker: Oh, wow. Okay. But yeah, that's like just, just after they thirst and bail, which would both have, if they had come out in 1988 would have both been classified as splatter punk. I'm sure of it.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. Well, yeah, and that's a weird thing because we don't generally change how we're categorizing something even if the industry itself changes. You know what i mean? that's Yeah, that's like one one of those things. is' like you know It just came out and it's considered like you know the old doorstop horror selections of the time. And it's like, no, these are no I mean, they're two of my favorite books, so I'm glad i'm glad he finally relented and put them back into print.
Speaker: But, I mean, it's not my favorite McCammon, though. And oddly enough, like I consider A Boy's boy's Life like its own thing. It's it's separate.
Speaker: um But my favorite of his horror books is actually um a Nightwalk.
Speaker: I have not read that.
Speaker: That, I think... um Hold up a second. I actually am going to do something real quick on the computer since I'm stuck on it in anyway.
Speaker: Might as well get some use out of the thing. Yeah, yeah I mean Mystery Walk, sorry. two boat two Two book names like crowded into my head at the same time. Night Boat and Mystery Walk.
Speaker: Okay. But mystery Mystery Walk was, I mean, that's the that was like the one he kept in print for the longest time after he took Bale, Nightboat, They Thirst, and Bethany Sin out.
Speaker: Okay. is that Is that something you think you might ever do as ah as a writer to like just take something out of print or not not put it back into print after it runs out?
Speaker: Um, no. No. i I generally take an attitude of it it it fit the moment. And if it did, if if it was, that you know, if you're looking at like a couple of months of writing the book, months upon months of revisions and never bailing on it in that entire time, then something about it spoke to you at that time.
Speaker: So it's at it if it's at nothing else, it's at least a window and into that time period of your life. Okay. All right.
Speaker: You know, and I, I don't, I wouldn't feel comfortable going around playing, um you know, electric shock, shock therapy with my memories that way, as it were.
Speaker: Huh. That's an interesting way to to put it because yeah, now you it's well known that, uh, There are books that Stephen King does not remember writing because, you know, cocaine's a hell of a drug. So that's, I mean, i don't know. Anytime I'm talking about horror publishing or philosophy of publishing, my mind can't go to anybody else but Stephen King unless there's like a specific incident. And two of the things that really stick out to me are like Rage not being in print anymore.
Speaker: Because personally, i felt so seen by that book. You know, like the abused kid that nobody really knows what's going on in their house. And it's a time in history when nobody talks about it. and But at the same time, i can certainly understand why he would not want a book about a school shooter to be out loud and and proud. And I guess a couple shooters had it in their possession.
Speaker: Yeah, that's that's it that's a tough one because...
Speaker: I mean, that's just a tough one because on one side, it's like how the book was intended, you know, and on the other side, there's like, you know, that personal responsibility. And, you know, I think it, I think we've seen enough of these things to know somebody is somebody's going to do something like that, it's, it could be anything, you know, I,
Speaker: you know And I hate to say that but because it sounds so defeatist, but you know like if you look at Mark David Chapman, he was going to do something horrific sooner or later.
Speaker: and i don't And as much as I dislike the book Catcher in the Rye, I still don't think it was J.D. Salinger's fault. No, of course not. You know, any more than the Beatles are responsible for the Manson family murders.
Speaker: You know, the the fact that a bad person likes a good thing and then does bad things with with that, you know. you you can't, uh, you can't really blame the artist. I mean, you know, any more than like, Oh, you saw a taxi driver and then you wait, what did you do? No, don't that' don't do that.
Speaker: Cause I'll tell you what, I made a flippant, uh, taxi driver joke online. And two days later they staged that thing in Butler PA and, uh,
Speaker: Yeah, I did not get a an exact visit from the FBI. i think because the f I had already been low-key questioned by the FBI because one of my upstairs neighbors, this is years ago when I still had a day job, but she reported me for getting strange packages with Arabic writing on it.
Speaker: And it was incense. i was I was ordering Nag Champa. But they talked to me. They talked to two friends. And they I'm told they called my work. Because I had worn my my job at the time. I'm like, well, this happened to me. So if anybody calls, this is what it's about.
Speaker: um Which is probably also what a terrorist would say. I don't i don't know. I don't think I know any terrorists. um but But, yeah. Yeah. ah yeah I don't know. Like after you've done the investigation, you've got to be sitting there as an FBI agent going, yeah, this was a good use of my time.
Speaker: Exactly. Exactly. And I'm sure that a lot of it is just such bullshit, you know, especially now when they're like hassling people about making a post online or, you know, stupid crap like that.
Speaker: Yeah. The 8647 thing was just, oh, come on. for goodness sake. Yeah, meanwhile, you know, the the bad guys are literally threatening to unalive people. So, yeah. so So here's my next question.
Speaker: With regard to writing, how would you respond to people who say that horror doesn't need so much gore to be scary? Oh, it doesn't.
Speaker: I mean, and it also doesn't need so much atmosphere to be scary and it doesn't need so many creatures. it Horror works for you because it works the way it works um for you.
Speaker: you know ah There's no problem with Malfi's style of grief.
Speaker: you know his his style of ah grief um horror There's no problem with Tamara Thorne's gothic stuff, and there's no problem with Christopher Triana. They all work for their audience, and it doesn't doesn't suddenly make it not horror.
Speaker: I'm so happy that you brought up Tamara Cross because ah she and Alistair are actually my guest um next week, but like last week in terms of... I think it will have aired last week by the time this this airs.
Speaker: But yeah, I just had them on, is my point. They're so great. I love those guys. And you are so right that there are the reason there are different kinds of horror, and indeed different genres in the first place, is because we're all looking for different things. You know, people that have a really stressful life might want super mindless or simple or cozy fiction.
Speaker: Whereas some people want to be challenged all the time or they want to feel, you know, borderline off their game because it keeps them sharp. I mean, we're all looking for different things in our horror. And then sometimes some genre that you don't really consider your genre comes your way and you're like, well, I now have a new perspective on things because I read this new thing that I wouldn't normally read.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it's like there's, I don't think... Horror is one of those, you know it when you see it sort of things. Sure. um and there There are a lot of things like that in life. It's like, like I can't always tell you when a joke is piss poor taste, but I can usually get a ah feel on some of them.
Speaker: You know, usually anything the orange one says, for instance. ah Yeah. Yeah. So I am aware that you live with chronic anxiety disorder.
Speaker: Now, I'm not a doctor, obviously. um But lately, more and more... I really question the, whether or not anxiety or even chronic anxiety is a disorder because the world is, is fucked up and it's hardly disordered to feel anxious about it, you know? So do you feel like your anxiety is incongruous to the life that you live?
Speaker: Um, it reached a point of too much, right? Like not everything in life is fight or flight, but in my head it became everything was fight or flight. um You know, I was working on editing a book and I i shut down. I couldn't deal with it.
Speaker: Like I couldn't think clearly enough because I was so frightened all the time to see what the editor was trying to say. Wow. Wow. Oh yeah. When it gets like, and the thing is, is speaking of the orange one, um I was able to keep it pretty much so under wraps with like a little bit of CBD and vigorous outdoor activities for years. And him getting reelected was like something snapped.
Speaker: Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's not even,
Speaker: It's not even all the bad he can do. It's also seeing everything that he's done, seeing that he left the country pretty much to smoking crater the last time he was in office and watching a quarter of the people that you have to be around all the time go, yeah, I want some more of that.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, personally, i don't think that that win was legit. But even if it's not, we all know personally way too many people that are either indifferent or cool with it.
Speaker: And ah how how are you supposed to work next to someone like that? How are you supposed to see him at Thanksgiving? Like, how how do you, you know? Yeah. It's like, I mean, like I said, even even if you wanted to have a very selfish attitude toward politics, it's my problems and those are the only ones that matter.
Speaker: Even if you wanted to take take that attitude, he left the country a smoking crater the last time. How on earth can you look at that and go on like, give him another shot?
Speaker: Well, you you know, I guess that depends on how seriously you take trans kids in junior high sports or something. I mean, that's that's one of the things I find myself saying online a lot when people are whining, oh, I lost my farm. Well, yeah, but, you know, the softball team is saved. You can just take solace in that, right?
Speaker: Dicks. um And that's, it's so, it's it's just so appalling how many people were, because, I mean, I think part of the issue is that Republicans are so used to Democrats saving their asses and making sure that Republicans can't do all the horrible things that they want to do that they really didn't appreciate.
Speaker: what they wanted to do. They published Project 2025 and then people said it was a hoax. And I mean, they everything was right there. you know It's like a Mark Duplass movie. like They're saying over and over again what's going to happen and you're just standing there like, wow, this is really interesting. you know Like, no.
Speaker: So obviously that is going to make a lot of people anxious, but you're right that it isn't so much about whether or not things are going well as, as how well you personally are able to, to live your life in spite of everything that's going on. And yeah, there, there sounds like you got to a point where you decided some help was in order.
Speaker: Yeah. So what happened next? Um, well, after some talking to a, uh, psychiatrist and,
Speaker: It just basically, you know, the magic of Prozac. I mean, um yeah. But it basically, you know, it's funny. People don't like like to talk about it. But like really when it reaches this point with PTSD and and anxiety disorder, it's just like it doesn't like they call them happy pills. It's like, no, it's it's not happy pills. It just turns the volume down on my panic.
Speaker: You know, it's. Yep. It allows you to function. Yeah. It's just turning the volume down. That's, that's all it is. It's like, you know, and I was really worried about it for like, I was like, cause I've seen people get like misdiagnosed or put on the wrong stuff in like total zombie mode.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. I sure have, you know, and, um, so I was very resistant to the idea, but it like, That was actually my wife's first clue that something was really bad was like, yeah, i I'm cool. and You want give me Prozac? Cool.
Speaker: Cool. I'm good with that. Please God, something. So in general, did you have support from friends and family while you were going through this?
Speaker: ah My wife has been like right there with me the whole way. That's awesome. That is great because these kinds of things can be really hard on partners. It's for some people, it's difficult to not take your partner's moods personally, you know, and that, that can make it more difficult to be supportive. My husband is, is also, you know, pretty much a saint in that way. He has like a superhuman ability not to take my moods personally.
Speaker: But still, I think i I put him through far more than he deserves. So in hindsight, is there anything that you wish that you had that that would have helped that process maybe get handled sooner or better? Or would you say that overall it it went pretty well?
Speaker: No, it did. like Like I said, I mean, you know, I i had kept my anxiety pretty much so under wraps and manageable with just a little bit of, little bit of um you know, ah CBD oil here and there and, you know, and everything was going cool. And then it just, when it went south, it just was like,
Speaker: I mean, it was it was a switch. I mean, I stopped i stopped watching late night TV because it's like, I don't want to joke about politics. You know, there's there's nothing funny anymore. You know, and it it just became that way. And it's like, I mean, i used to write horror comedy and it's like, I can't, like, I don't have that in me right now.
Speaker: You know, it's yeah it's it's hard to be openly funny. It's easy to be like sarcastic or sardonic, you know, but, but yeah, just like cracking wit is it's, it's tough now. Certainly. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm Polish. So gallows humor is sort of like a thing we do. It's a feature.
Speaker: Oh, me too, actually. My birth name was Sarzynski. Wednesday Lee Sarzynski. But then my mom got a divorce and I had a bunch of different names for a while. um But yeah, I get it.
Speaker: um Okay, so you also live with PTSD. um And PTSD and anxiety, bestest friends, they're the chocolate and peanut butter of mental illness. um And these are things that we see in a lot of people who write horror.
Speaker: um I think writers in general use fiction to to work out their own issues. So how do PTSD and anxiety find their way into your writing?
Speaker: um Well, I mean, know kind of all the time. I mean, you know, Faceless, for all that it's a just brutal book, I mean, at at its base is me screaming that, like, the whole whole reason the world is screwed up is because we don't look at each other as people.
Speaker: and the And the Internet's just made it worse and worse and worse. You know, we don't – we can look at a number, like – 30,000 killed in this conflict and like not even blink.
Speaker: And it's like, no, that was 30,000 people. They had hopes, they had dreams, they had things they wanted to do with their life. They had goals, you know, and we don't even view it that way. We just 30,000 onto sports.
Speaker: Yeah, you're right. You know, and it's like, basically i created a character um, openly views the whole world the way we tend to view lot of it, you know? And it's like, so, you know, and like, I mean, um our emotions make us monsters is about how easily we can be manipulated by our emotions and how, if we let our emotions get out of control, they manipulate us just all on their own.
Speaker: um Canis Lupus Humanis is about, You know, we all have instincts that like, you know, we need, you know, but if we create a personality based on our instincts, we become a monster.
Speaker: You know, it's like every time, every time you hear like quote unquote locker room talk, that's like basic human instincts gone way too far because somebody made it their whole personality. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. you know And in the last one is just disgust that over and over horrible things happen, like 13 kisses. And it's like
Speaker: if you're rich enough, if you're powerful enough, you just skate.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, that's the thing about so many laws being punishable by a fine. And that just means that for rich people, it's not a law. It's a suggestion.
Speaker: You know, and it's like, actually right now, um speaking of being triggered and PTSD, I would like to thank Vivek Ramaswamy for being a complete bastard.
Speaker: Oh my God. can't. Now, I don't know how often you listen or if you know anything about my past, but my mom was my first abuser. And we have not spoken since the 90s. And if a politician offered her $100 to trash talk me on TV and make me look bad, i have no doubt whatsoever that she would do it.
Speaker: It would not be true. you know if you've listened to the the If you've listened to any abuser talk about the whole thing long after the fact, you know if you've tried to have a conversation with your own abusers, like, why the hell did you do this to me?
Speaker: Oh, you're exaggerating. You're making it up. you don't It wasn't that bad. are you still complaining about that? Why why do you still care? why Why, why, why? Why do you want me to feel bad? What good does that do? i'm Sorry, I'm getting a little triggered myself here. But that that commercial and that horrible, horrible excuse for a mother, that was note note note for note, rote for rote, no notes. That that was perfect.
Speaker: And did you see Trump's reaction when a reporter questioned him about it? Because he had spoke out in favor of of the mother and against Amy Acton, obviously. But um a reporter said, well, the mother chose to stay with the abuser. The abuser was charged. The brother confirms the story. This is all well established.
Speaker: Does that change your opinion? And he said no. Just straight up no. And obviously, on the one hand, he's a rapist. So of course he's going to support the rapist. He thinks rape is either an oopsie or it's nobody's business.
Speaker: That's just a thing that happens between people sometimes. you know yeah um there's a whole facet of society that's right there with him nodding even women that are like yeah as a woman that's something you just gotta tolerate and you need to be careful so it happens less often like no you bitch that's not okay it's never okay i will tell you i want a tangent just a tiny little bit here um I saw a post recently about, I don't even know if it's real, but it was about John Lennon standing up for someone at their wedding. And there was a wedding picture that may or may not have been AI. But the discussion was that John Lennon was standing up for some famous person at their wedding.
Speaker: And I said, wow, why would you ask a wife beater to stand up for you at your wedding? That's gross. And I got lambasted by people saying, oh, yeah, somebody always has to bring up that he's a wife beater.
Speaker: Well, yeah. Yeah. That's not his reputation. And the thing is that going soft on this, just excusing it and saying it's OK or pretending that it's somehow overridden by a nice song or the fact that he didn't die very well. I mean, that's.
Speaker: That's why we're where we are now, because people won't say, no, I don't care how much fucking money he has. He hurt people. He needs to be consequence. I'm not saying, you know, shoot him in the street like ISIS after him. But I'm saying these people need to be charged. I don't know why Democrats aren't.
Speaker: bringing up impeachment proceedings like every day somebody should be filing for impeachment and they could there's enough crimes and it would drive him insane but they're not doing it I'm so fucking sick of this democrat ah malaise that's going on this indifference to you know that and that's really it I'm sick of the indifference because we citizens don't have the power to do what needs to be done and democrats in congress do they don't have the votes but there are things that they could be doing that they're not doing i'm gonna shut up now because i hate when i take over the conversation interviews and i'm so bad at it because that's the thing of the best interviews are where the guest talks because the guests are so interesting and i'm just blah blah blah no it's like i mean that's the the brock turner thing i mean we'll always come back to that and it's it's it's
Speaker: You know, I think part of what really bugs me about it is also the lack of personal reflection. You know, it's, it's, it's not because I'm a, I am a really big believer in that people can grow, people can change, people can be more than they, they were built to be.
Speaker: But if all you're concerned with is skating,
Speaker: well, there that, that precludes any growth or change or anything. Right. You know, you kind of almost die as a human being if you're more concerned with looking at what you've done in life and going, well, it got away with that.
Speaker: Then yeah you are, you know, like you're almost killing yourself in that action. And it's, I don't know, 13 kisses, it's,
Speaker: I kind of describe it as um if Clive Barker had gotten around to directing his his own um I Spit on Your Grave.
Speaker: Sure. Sure. Okay. That makes sense.
Speaker: Just given, you know, I haven't read all of 13 cases yet, but but yeah, i'm I'm getting that from from what you're saying and and what I've looked at so far. Okay, we need to actually pause for just a sec here because this is the part of the show where I read the names of the donors.
Speaker: These are the people that help keep the lights on around here. Because, you know, I'm a disabled creator who doesn't actually get disability. So my side hustles, you know, scared soapless and this and, you know, a couple other little things I take in editing and whatnot. That is how I support myself. So throwing a few bucks at the show every month is so helpful. And you can do that on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I, where we are sometimes hilarious horror. But if you search for the Mentally Oddcast, it should still come right up.
Speaker: ah Okay, so donors right now include Brianna Simmons, ThatDamnJim, LowKey, Roger Humphrey, TripleL, Douglas G, SupporterX, Kathy Martin, Nemu Ravenfall, ThatOneFool, Allison Huff, and Laura Wagonlander. Many, many thanks to them.
Speaker: All right, so we are going to talk about the therapeutic value in creating or consuming horror, and especially intensely visceral horror like we've been talking about.
Speaker: Hold up. I've got a cat that's about to jump right on my lap. Aw. That doesn't sound like a problem, unless it hits the mic. that That's what I was trying to like i was trying to position myself to make sure...
Speaker: That she did not whomp right into the mic. Yeah, Millie is actually settled in her crate right now, which is pretty fun because she doesn't always settle for the whole interview.
Speaker: So we'll we'll see. We'll see if she stays settled. She's got her little licky popsicle thing. I make her um frozen yogurt with yam baby food.
Speaker: Oh, she loves it, man. You freeze it up, put it in the little thing. Elsa here kind of does whatever she wants. That's cats for you.
Speaker: She's on top of it. She's like, she's blind. So we've just generally taken an an attitude of as long as she finds the litter box and she can do whatever she wants. Right. Right. That's wow.
Speaker: That's awesome. was Was she disabled when you took her in? i No, but she was, she was going blind. We just didn't know it at the time. She, I mean, somebody dumped her in town.
Speaker: And she followed my son home on Elsa Lanchester's birthday. Thus the name. Okay. And, um you know, she she was outside and like, I went to go check on her and she came running out and was raining out and she's like meeping and okay, fine.
Speaker: I guess I have a cat now. I wasn't planning on having another cat, but apparently my plans don't matter here. You're a cute and I'm a sucker.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing, man. I'm um pretty powerless. I mean, we had cats the whole time we were in the the place that we're in now. But with the business, you know, one of the things we do in the soap shop, we also do resin stuff like UV resin and also two part epoxy. And so that's like real chemically, there's fumes. And if a animal gets into it,
Speaker: they'll die you know they yeah it's bad juju survive that that sort of thing and so i couldn't have a cat because we don't have a door to our our the craft room is in the kitchen there's no door so there's no way to physically keep a cat out you know So now we have a dog and we have fences all over the apartment and chicken wire and all kinds of hilarious things to keep her away from the dollies and the books and the and the various crafting chemicals.
Speaker: um But she's so great. Millicent is just so friggin great. And being a dog owner is is so fun. And I wasn't sure if I would be good at it, but it turns out I'm i'm rocking it. So it's very exciting.
Speaker: But to get to back to the question, yeah, actually, like even when I was a kid um and a lot of terrible stuff was happening, their like horror at horror was my escape du jour.
Speaker: And i I strongly suspect that some part of it was the understanding that, hey, everything is awful, but no werewolves.
Speaker: Like you can write you can turn off the TV. You can put the book down. You know, you have power over that. So like yeah so you you you have this big, terrible thing that's happening in life, you have, especially when you're a kid, you have no power over anything.
Speaker: But at least like you can have an even bigger terror there, like, you know, something from the world of horror. And you you have power over it. You can turn the TV off. You can go outside. It ends at some point. Mm-hmm. Yep. Unlike what's happening in your life, it has a beginning and an end.
Speaker: Now, do you think that intaking a lot of horror as a kid better prepared you for tragedy?
Speaker: Especially tragedy that doesn't um impact you personally. The one that comes to mind would be the Challenger disaster. I find that the kids who loved horror were not as likely to burst into tears and completely lose their minds when when we all watched that at school.
Speaker: Well, yeah, i can see I can see that. I mean, I'm also Philadelphian and um we have a very terrible sense of humor about um every tragedy.
Speaker: The whole city does. it's It's just, again, it's a feature. um Like when the most beloved newscaster probably in Philadelphia history died in a skydiving accident, the next...
Speaker: The next day at school, what's Jim O'Brien's favorite vegetable? Squash. Oh, shit. And that was like fifth grade.
Speaker: So, I mean, i like I said, it's it's just a feature. um But yeah, i think I think knowing that bad things happen and can happen gives you, like, you're not as shocked.
Speaker: Like I think if you spend your entire day watching, I don't want to degrade anything. Holly Hobby. There we go.
Speaker: um If you spend your whole day with that and suddenly you see a car accident, it's nothing in your life like has ever prepared you for the concept of blood on the road. Much more jarring.
Speaker: Yeah. Or it's like, if you've watched duel, you're like, well, that is a car accident. h I've seen those. Well, that's interesting because in high schools, they do show you those like crazy car crash movies in Driver's Ed, and that's what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to be jarring and upsetting you enough to go, oh, holy shit, I better be so careful once I'm on the road.
Speaker: But yeah, if you've already seen you know Duel, if you've seen The Car, if you've seen you know The Sentinel or any of those... ah or Or even like burnt offerings. Like there are plenty of movies where a car can terrify you. I think all the ones I just named were made before 1980. So maybe there's more recent ones too. Christine.
Speaker: Okay. But but yeah. admit You didn't get that far far past 1980 with Christine though. All right. Yeah. but Well, I are old, but but no, you're right. I think that that that makes a lot of sense. The whole like not not even necessarily desensitized, but it takes away the the shock of it. Not not the horror, not the sadness, but you're not like, oh, yeah, that's right. The world can be terrible because you already know.
Speaker: Yeah, it demystifies it a little bit. Like if if you've never seen something like that happen, then it has almost a mystic quality of, oh, my God, how could that happen?
Speaker: Yep. Yep. And when I was a kid, there was a serial killer operating in our, I guess, neighborhood. It was the Oakland County child killer. And we lived in Oakland County.
Speaker: um So from a really early age, I was like, oh, there are people in the world that do that. Oh, no. But that, you know, it kind of stays with you always. Like, I'm sure that that changed who I am as a person and and where my interest lays, because it's such a formative age.
Speaker: I was confronted with, no, you have to walk home with a friend. No, you can deliver school newspapers, but I'm going to follow you in the car. Like my mom was super paranoid about it. And all of that stayed with me. And, you know, I'm finding it especially relevant because my serial killer book is coming out in a new edition next week. So by the time this airs, it will be out. Actually, think it's the 28th. I think that's the day that it it comes out. But, but yeah, um,
Speaker: that's the thing is when it's not so foreign to you, it is less scary. You know, it's it's still sad and worrisome and everything, but it it becomes less scary. And that's, I think why horror gets more and more intense for the fans, because we're just not phased by as much.
Speaker: You know, I, I think also, um,
Speaker: i I think there are definitely some a some directors out there who just aimed to wound you. So like it just it creates little dead spots in your soul. i' i'm thinking I'm thinking of Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer here.
Speaker: Yeah, right up there with ah Cannibal Holocaust. like There's no redeeming value to this. You're just telling me that people are awful. Well, with with henry Henry actually did like just womp me because the director knows the rules of filmmaking.
Speaker: And he knows you know the rules of filmmaking. And he knows if there's this big scene with where he somehow made you root for a serial killer all through this film.
Speaker: And the serial killer comes in and saves the day. Well, now we know how the film has to end. No, you don't. No, no, no, you don't. Oh, God, no, you don't.
Speaker: ah God, that that that film, that one is just, even now. Yeah, that's one of those on my short list of films that I saw once and then never again, along with Irreversible, Happiness, and Requiem for a Dream.
Speaker: Those are all one and done for me. Yeah, i've I've watched Henry again, but like there are certain films that, yeah, i can I can look at that and go, that's a triumph of filmmaking.
Speaker: Want to watch it? No, not on your goddamn life. Well, and some things you might want to watch like every 10 or 20 years, you know, like once in a while, I'll be like, you know what? I'm going to watch One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest today. And by the end, you're just like, oh, oh ho Billy, why did I watch this? But, you know, it's a masterpiece. Sometimes you got to experience a masterpiece, even though, you know, your heart's about to get broken.
Speaker: i Yeah, there's a lot of ah lot of a lot of films that I love and I will i will talk highly of at any given moment. And at the same time, it's like, well, you want to chill out on Friday night and watch a film? Why don't we watch this? Nope.
Speaker: Nope. No, love the film. So why don't you want to watch it? Because I'd like to sleep tonight. Right. Right? I mean, there are some movies that just scare me so much. And they're weird because, like, I find Psycho 3 to be the most nightmare-inducing of the Psycho movies. Even more so than... Because, like, you know, the shower scene, I understand why it's technically proficient and scary and everything. But some of the stuff in Psycho 3 is just so haunting that it just burns itself into your brain.
Speaker: that's That's the funny thing about anything with Hitchcock. Hitchcock has like lost his punch because everybody saw everything he did. Yes, yes. like you can watch like I remember I went to see ah a ah Nightmare on Elm Street in the theater, and I could tell you where the jump cut was coming from in every scene, which really in-eared me to my ah friends in the theater with me.
Speaker: But because I had watched a lot of Hitchcock, you know I'd seen the birds, I'd seen Psycho. It's like, i i know i can i know this camera angle. I know what is coming.
Speaker: you know Because he's doing it perfectly. But it's like, I think for later generations, they don't understand that. It's like, yeah, but that that that angle, he created that angle.
Speaker: Yep. Yeah, that's... And it's so frustrating talking with younger people who think that these things were just invented for the first time. Like, ah you know, Scream. that The series Scream. And they're like, oh my god, it's so crazy that like they cast Drew Barrymore, but then she dies right away and you never see it coming. That's brilliant! Like, yeah, that's a thing that happened in 1960. That's not new. So...
Speaker: that's that's not new so Yeah, Wes Craven definitely watched a lot of Hitchcock. Well, my understanding is that it was Drew Barrymore herself who suggested that, that she not play the lead, that she play the girl who dies initially, which, you know, lucky for Neve Campbell, that's that's a, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I do love, i mean, even now, I haven't seen the most recent Scream movies, but that's they're they're all pretty solid. There's all stuff to enjoy. And I think that the killer, just the way that he is performed and shot, it's always a little scary to me.
Speaker: Always. Plus, people that I didn't want to die ended up dying. I didn't want Cotton Weary to die. Spoiler alert. Um... A little late for that now, isn't it? Whoops.
Speaker: little late for Cotton Weary, too. Heyo!
Speaker: Oh, God, we did that in unison. Anyway. ah Great minds.
Speaker: All right, listen. now you indicated a willingness to talk about a time when you felt in fear with your for in fear for your life. Now, there's a reason why we asked that question. And it's basically so that, I mean, a lot it's one of those things that a lot of people feel alone in.
Speaker: And that people that have their shit together, that doesn't happen to them. Or that feeling in in legitimate fear for your life isn't very common. And I don't want to diminish anyone who's been in that situation. But I think that there is enough commonality that enough people have felt that.
Speaker: that it is worthwhile to share those experiences so that we can all relate and, and sort of, I mean, not bond necessarily, cause that sounds creepy, but that that it's, it's a very relatable thing and people don't know how relatable it is because we don't talk about it. So I appreciate your willingness to talk about it. What would you like to say?
Speaker: Well, I was going to actually go with a really good explanation of of the PTSD. Um, My mom had a just knock your doors down nervous breakdown when I was seven.
Speaker: Oh. Like paranoid schizophrenic, that's what they diagnosed it with at the time back in the 80s, like never going to get better, you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker: Oh, no. they went to take her to get in the hospital. And she decided on the front lawn to hold me hostage with a can of gas and a lighter.
Speaker: Holy shit.
Speaker: And I'm sorry, you were how old? Seven? The breakdown started when I was seven. I was eight when they... Wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, it's like... and i'm like And speaking of that that ah language of the abuser, my aunt was like, well, there was barely any gas in that can.
Speaker: Like, I knew that. Well, it kind of doesn't matter. I mean, the the threat is real. And if you're a kid, I mean, like, oh, you wouldn't have died. You just could have been disfigured hideously. Like, what the fuck kind of argument is that? I'm angry on your behalf.
Speaker: And like I said, so like, you know, seeing the Vivek Ramaswamy thing and watching that horrid woman being trimped trotted out like some kind of model citizen who we should listen to her opinion. It's like,
Speaker: like, and I, I was not even permanently taken away from my mother. I only had to spend the the summer with relatives. Just the summer. And then you were taken back to her. Yep. Was she well,
Speaker: ah better than she was. i mean, she had, and she, she kept having nervous breakdowns, like, you know, and that, that created situations where, like, when I say I was raised as a free range kid, I'm not kidding.
Speaker: um And that creates situations that are rife for abuse from other people outside of the home. And, yep you know, and, and that's why Mr. Prozac is my friend.
Speaker: Sure. that That is relatable. Highly, highly relatable. Because, I mean, you know, i was a weird fat kid named Wednesday who was getting their ass kicked at home every day, totally parentified, taking care of younger siblings, and undiagnosed autism and ADHD. So you go to school and it's like, how come the bullies know who has autism? Why do they know that there's something wrong with me? And yet the teachers and counselors and You know, they don't seem to get it It's very frustrating.
Speaker: Back in the 70s and 80s, you know, they just didn't want to know that the home life was complicated. I mean, to go back to the Acton story, like she was taken away from her mom in 1978 for good and for always.
Speaker: for good and for always I know for a fact how difficult it was to take a kid away from the parent in 1978. Like I said, I just spent the summer with my aunt. Next thing I know, I'm back with my mom, you know, and my mom tried to light me on fire, you know?
Speaker: Well, yeah, there was a thinking that no matter what, a kid was better off with their mom. And I'm here to tell you, some women shouldn't be parents and didn't realize that until after they were knocked up a few times.
Speaker: Yeah. It's like, I mean, like I would always have like um counselors or or people going, gee, your test scores are through the roof. Why don't you do better in school? yeah Well, cause my mom's talking to nobody at up until 2am in the morning. I don't get a lot of sleep.
Speaker: Yeah, and then it's kind of sink or swim after that. They just leave kids to raw dog that. And yeah, then they're all like, oh, why are why why are your why is your shit not together? Why is your life messed up? Why are you making all these bad choices? That was that was one of the the refrains that I had a lot. why Why do you choose these men that are mean to you in bed? It's like, well... because abuse is the most comfortable thing and i was told outright that i didn't deserve a good guy and wouldn't find one until i was you know skinny yeah my aunt went went with um it's your fault she's like this oh my god gross what a gross thing i mean even if that were somehow true that's a gross thing to say to a child
Speaker: Yeah, so like, i I mean, I joke about it because what what else can you do at this point? You know, it's like so like three different people complimented three different books of mine recently and my low self-esteem didn't know what to do with the information.
Speaker: Yep, also relatable. Also relatable. Do you ever just say like, oh, thank you, that's so kind. Like they're they're being nice, doing you a solid by saying your book is good and not that it's not possible that it's just genuinely good and they enjoyed it.
Speaker: I just always like, I always give the, oh, thank you so much. And I really do mean it. But the nanosecond, I am not looking at that message anymore.
Speaker: Oh my God, my brain. like And like one of the people that complimented one of my books is like somebody I respect in this business a ton. And i just, I like was like, ah, ah, ah, ah a you want You want to name names? I'd love to know who.
Speaker: ah Lisa Leetone. Oh, neat. she She loved 13 Kisses and you know a compliment from her like to me means a lot. So it looked like, you know, I was i thank thanked her very much. And then I freaked out about it later.
Speaker: Sure. Absolutely. That's, yeah, I bet. So we should really talk about 13 Kisses. I, as I said, did not get to finish it. But what we wanted we want to cover, first of all, it's out now. um What formats is it in?
Speaker: Pretty much so everything. it's um I mean, you can get Barnes & Noble. Matter of fact, actually, this is this is a dirty little trick. If you really like a book, if you go into Barnes & Noble and order it from them in the store, if it happens enough times, a lot of times they put it on the shelves.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. That is true. So yeah, people should totally do that. So print and digital, right? And then is there an audio book? No. Will there be?
Speaker: I... um Uncomfortably dark right now is not because of the length of time the rights stay with Amazon. If you put out an audio book, they're not comfortable with holding your book that long.
Speaker: So it would be on me to do it. And I just i just don't know. i don't like I don't know if it's if it's my top priority. Oh, sure. It's a big undertaking. I was really lucky. My new publisher decided to to do the audiobook for my my debut because all my long form stuff is is back out now or coming back out. um But yeah, like audio books are one of those things that like they're they're expensive to buy They're really hard to produce. You know, they take a long time.
Speaker: And then once people get audio books, there are like gatekeepy jegs that tell people they're not really reading because it's an audio book. ah that is That is completely an utterly bogus. I love, i now that's another thing. It's like, despite the fact that I haven't put out audio books,
Speaker: Though um an anthology I'm in is on audio. um The Splatterpunk anthology from Hellbound.
Speaker: That has an audio book on it. Nice. But yeah, no, i I have a car. I i like to listen to somebody talk when I'm in the car just because it keeps me crisp and like in the moment.
Speaker: And I pay better attention to my driving that way. you know it's just That makes sense. yeah you know which it's just it's ah It's a habit I developed in luk really long drives. you know like Around hour three, when you're starting to get a little mentally punchy, you kind of need something to keep you here
Speaker: Well, I think most writers fondest wishes that they could hire a marketing team so they didn't have to talk to other people in order to sell books. I think every I think every writer has said that at least once to their significant other. I'd like to get big enough so I could hire people to do this crap.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. Matter of fact, put my ah press packet together. I hate that. press i have a degree in journalism. I still hate putting a press packet together.
Speaker: Oh my God. ah the the Write the synopsis for the back cover. ah No, no, I'm not gonna. You read it. You write the back cover.
Speaker: you You have to read it to edit it. So why don't you just write it so I don't have anything more to do with it, please. Thank you. Or or you could say the most writerly thing ever. What's your book about? Well, why don't you read it and tell me what you think it's about?
Speaker: I actually don't like that one because you should know what your book is about, even if you can't sum it up in a single sales-worthy paragraph. that's I think that's actually one of the nicest things about writing Splatterpunk. It's like I know what the book... like there's i I know there's two things that it's about.
Speaker: you know And I know what the other thing... It's about is. And it's kind of funny. I can't, I have a hard time writing until I find out what else I'm trying to say.
Speaker: Sure, yes. Yeah, I totally went through that with Kiss Me Like You Love Me. i didn't know how to end it because I didn't know what the theme was supposed to be. i knew the story, I knew what I was telling and like who everybody was, but I couldn't decide what was going to happen to like three central characters because what happened to them determined what kind of book it was, like what the mood and the theme were, as opposed to like just what was happening.
Speaker: And it can really leave you stuck. No, it's like basically like I kind of drift with like a basic idea until I see where I'm going. Yep. And then it like it dawns on me and it's like, you know, and in half the time.
Speaker: oh i didn't expect that. Like a book I'm revising right now, Micro. It just started because I wanted to demystify the whole serial killer thing.
Speaker: Okay. um Serial killers in fiction are either this hyper genius they're this really just horrible, disgusting thing. you know And if you can mutate them, even better.
Speaker: wow. And what most serial killers are really like is they have a job, they go to church, they have a wife, they They just have some weird sexual hangup in their past that they want to share around.
Speaker: you know And that's that's the majority of them. you know And so I wanted to make a book where
Speaker: the serial care killer isn't cool and he's not gross either. like He's just a neighbor. Okay. All right.
Speaker: And wait, is this your book that's coming out in December? No, that is Sinister Lookalike. that is That is pretty much so dealing with alcoholism.
Speaker: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's, I mean, anybody, think anybody who's even drank at all has had the moment they wake up the next day going, i did what?
Speaker: Right. You know, where it's, you feel like you've become a monster overnight And now you're trying to like run through your apologies and, you know, but there's like more to it than that. It's like also like anybody who's in the throes of addiction, they're to some degree committing suicide and they know it, you know, they, they hate where they are too.
Speaker: You know, it's, it's not just you hating it for them or hating who they are when they do this. They, they don't like it either. Absolutely. And so basically the alternating chapters,
Speaker: um like the blood and guts happen when he blacks out. And then the rest of the time, he's just trying to get through life and get through his own trauma.
Speaker: And then it just kind of comes to a head as we go.
Speaker: Wow. Oh, I'm stoked. I'm stoked. um So how do people find you if they want to buy your books? Is it better to look on Amazon or do you have a website? What's the deal?
Speaker: Well, I do have a website. um I just started kind of using it. Facebook is actually preference um because I check that for other stuff. you know it's like i um Do you have a link tree?
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's probably what we'll share. We'll share the link tree because that'll have all your relevant links on it, right? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I sent that over. Okay. Yeah, I don't have it in front me because I'm just, you know, I'm singularly focused on you right now. And interrupting you to crack jokes when you're trying to talk about something serious. Because that's what I do here. um Okay, so...
Speaker: All right. So what I want to ask though is like, what advice would you give someone who wants to work through their own mental health by writing about it?
Speaker: I think one of the most important things is to realize then that you're writing for you. um You can't wedge your trauma into a trend.
Speaker: I mean, you could try, but it doesn't work. You have to, like, at its basis, yeah the the book has to start with something you really want to do, not something you really think readers want to read. Yep, yep.
Speaker: Agree, hard agree. Because, you i mean, you can't put yourself into it if you're doing a copy.
Speaker: Right. And I think if you're a new writer and you're still looking for your voice, the worst thing you can do is base it on someone else's voice or base it on what you think is going to sell, like trying to write to a market instead of writing the thing that you want to say.
Speaker: This is why I don't, I actually don't recommend books on writing by authors except for one. On writing? Actually, it's Jeff Strands.
Speaker: Because really yeah, because every other book is basically teaching you how to learn to write like the person writing the book. And there's not a, there's not enough about finding your own voice. Jeff's book is about all the things you can expect if you actually want to do this for money.
Speaker: Like what it's like to get an agent, how useful is an agent? Um, What kind of writing and advice is just stupid and what kind of writing advice maybe you should look at how to get good advice from people. like it's all of that stuff. It's all the stuff that nobody teaches you, you know, that you like, we all have to go through learning on our own as, as we become professionals at this gig, you know, and that's his book is just, it's nothing but writing.
Speaker: it's There's nothing about how you should write. It's all about what happens when you've decided to take the plunge and become a writer. Okay.
Speaker: And what's the title of that? ah Hold up. I'd have to look that up. but Hi, kitten. What are you doing with the keyboard, daddy?
Speaker: That's exactly what she's doing right now. You should be petting me. Why are you not petting me? You could be petting me. Yeah, that's cats for you.
Speaker: Yeah. And well, now now I'm petting her and she doesn't care about the keyboard anymore. She's like that. God, he writes a lot.
Speaker: Sorry, I'm looking at Jeff's. um Yeah, I was going to say yeah that might take a minute. it had It hadn't come out to pick that one. yes he is it didn't come out that long ago but he's also re-released a lot of stuff so that's helpful that's really really thanks jeff helpful um but yeah no i think it's on writing or something like it wait do you mean the book that was put out by the horror writers association it has like a red cover no castle edited it no he he wrote a book on his own matter of fact um
Speaker: he had me he he actually sent me the ARC on it. And I was kind of like, oh God, this is gonna... um you know I wasn't that enthusiastic because, oh great, a book and on writing. um And then I read it and i'm like, now i like I am always... I always recommend like Jeff's book on writing just because the writing life, Reflections and Recollections, that's it. okay And I always recommend that book Just because, yeah, there's all kinds of stuff that nobody, like we all think that we we went through on our own through in this business.
Speaker: and he's like And he goes through and it's like, I think just about any any experienced writer is going to find their own life experience in this book. And anybody who wants to get into writing should probably read this book.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah, Jeff doesn't teach you how to write. He treat teaches you how to survive the fact that you're a writer. Yeah, two ah two entirely separate skills, I would say.
Speaker: At least in my experience. Oh, there is so much I didn't know. Wow, I'm going to have to pick that up. ah Thanks for making me spend more money on books. So we're actually nearing the end of the question. So um this is where I ask if there was anything that you wanted to talk about that we did not get to.
Speaker: Well, actually, um i have i have to I have to ask, just doing a show like this, have you ever had an interview spin out on you? Well...
Speaker: no it i well ah not Not during the interview. I've had people after the interview, um like some problematic things happened. um Someone I had on the show pretended to be a lawyer and and emailed me at like on a Sunday morning. It was like 6 a.m. on a Sunday morning telling me that they were demanding that the episode be taken down.
Speaker: and telling me that like Ronnie James Dio's widow was was gonna come after me. um It was it was surreal. It was insane. And then they went online and and told people that I was terrorizing them.
Speaker: and ah And so, yeah, that didn't happen during the interview, but the fact that that would happen ever was... That is, yeah. It was it was quite unexpected. And the thing is that i i think that if ah if a guest ever came to me and said, you know what, I'm sorry, but I would really like that interview to be taken down, i would be reticent to do it, but I would consider it certainly, because I want to be respectful.
Speaker: But at the same time, my my urge would be to, I mean, we, we barely edit these interviews. We edit for things like, you know, my my weed pipe or the the doorbell, you know, we don't, we don't really edit for content unless something really untoward happens because I think authenticity is important because of what we're doing and how we're doing it. So And taking down and and in an interview after it's posted would feel like a dirty delete to me. So a guest would have to, I think, convince me why it it needed to come down. It would be a conversation. And the fact that someone had the temerity to pretend to be an attorney and make demands of me, um
Speaker: That's so childish, actually. Yeah, I mean, i really i really dug my feet in then on that one. Because, you know, i'm ah I'm a grown-up who was bullied as a kid and sometimes as an adult. So my attitude was very much like, no, come at me.
Speaker: Try it. Try something. Do it. You know, like I was so just like petty and defensive about it. And the interview's still up. I'm not going to say who it is. i think a lot of people know who it is.
Speaker: Because when they called me, I mean, they called me out publicly on Facebook. And it was one of those like weird like dog piles where anybody who defended me, he would block them. And then later he added me back. you know he's He and I are, well, we're not Facebook friends, but he did add me back. I think he follows me now. And it's it's just insane. It's surreal. Because they badmouth me to people that impacted my standing in in some communities.
Speaker: But at the same time, a lot of people contacted me and were like, oh, it's your turn to be on the in the crosshairs of that frigging nut. So, yeah, I mean, the whole situation was insane.
Speaker: Yeah, no, i like I actually kind of have reached an understanding with my own personal trauma of understanding how little it actually has to do with me, if that makes sense.
Speaker: um you know, what, what somebody did to, to me in 1979 is not really a reflection on me.
Speaker: Right. Right. You know, so it's just, it's something I feel like I'm, I'm relatively comfortable talking about cause it's like it happened. but It is what it is. You know,
Speaker: we I think so much stuff happened to so many different kids that, because people didn't want to talk about things. Yep.
Speaker: Well, domestic violence is, yeah, that's huge. And that's, it's made such a difference that we started talking about it toward children and and adults, you know, because a lot of people were getting their asses kicked at home by people that they should have been able to trust.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's just like, I think that that isn't what nice people talk about you how we ended up with so many people needing therapy if they're lucky.
Speaker: Yes. yes
Speaker: that it's it's considered more... I mean, that's what that's part of what niceness is. Being nice means only bringing up pleasant conversations. You know, it's the same people thing that some people say about politics. Oh, I don't talk about politics because it's unpleasant.
Speaker: Like, no, you don't talk about politics because you don't want to admit you voted for a fascist. um That's, yeah. Well, both sides are corrupt, and I'm just going to sit this one out. Yeah, now thank you for telling me who you voted for last time.
Speaker: Right? Like, good idea. I'm sure Kamala would have had roaming gangs of masked thugs who impregnate children just working for the government. um No, no, of course not.
Speaker: So, yeah. um You know what? i think I think that's it. I think we're time it's time for the Mad Lib. Mad Lib ho All right.
Speaker: So... Uh, we're going to start with plural nouns. I'm going to need one, two, three, four. Looks like four plural nouns.
Speaker: Uh, cars.
Speaker: I can't stop myself on this one. Hippies. Um, Hmm. Bears.
Speaker: All right. One more. Okay, cars, hippies, bears. that Oh yeah, three, four. Right, right, right, right, right. Cameras.
Speaker: All right, I need an adjective.
Speaker: Hmm. Quickly. All right, well, this one is person in room male, so that's you. And I need a singular noun.
Speaker: Hmm. Hmm. Why is singular suddenly? but Rat.
Speaker: All right. And a color?
Speaker: Purple.
Speaker: All right. And there's another person in room male here, but there isn't another person in room. So name a famous man.
Speaker: Harrison Ford.
Speaker: All right, nice. And then we need an article of clothing.
Speaker: Leg garter.
Speaker: Great. And a verb past tense.
Speaker: Fled. I need a number.
Speaker: 12. A part of the body. Arm.
Speaker: A place. Cleveland.
Speaker: a okay, person in room female, so I guess that's, we need a female celebrity.
Speaker: Well, since actually Elsa was in the room, we'll go with Elsa Lanchester.
Speaker: Yep. Willard Stiles' mom. people People hate when you call her that. um All right. Oh, we need another place.
Speaker: Kalamazoo.
Speaker: Alrighty, and then finally we need another male celebrity. Good lord, Mad Libs thinks we're having quite a party in here. um yeah Male celebrity.
Speaker: Christopher Lee. Nice.
Speaker: Okay. So this is called Dare to be Newsworthy. Some people will do anything to get their 15 minutes of cars.
Speaker: Think you've seen it all? Check out the quick things these people did to make headlines. PJ, a star ratball player at his school, ran a marathon wearing 5-inch stiletto hippies and skin-tight floral leg garter.
Speaker: Wetness painted herself bright purple and fled in a public fountain while people blasted her with a squirt gun filled with bears.
Speaker: Harrison Ford tied 12 helium-filled cameras around his arm and floated from Cleveland to Kalamazoo. Elsa Lanchester walked up to every fast food drive-thru window in town and asked if she could have Christopher Lee to go.
Speaker: That is hilarious. You know, the image of Harrison Ford grumpily floating through the air. Big scowl on his face. And he's a pilot. He'd be really mad that he had to do that. that He didn't have a plane.
Speaker: What the hell is this about? God damn it. Right? He's become so curmudgeonly. I guess maybe become isn't the right root word because he was like a young curmudgeon in American graffiti. Maybe nothing's changed.
Speaker: ah But he has a great sense of humor about stuff. Like if you just catch him right. And i kind of I kind of appreciate that because like there are so many other
Speaker: of that era, um, actors who just have become humorless. So when I see like, you know, Mark Hamill or like Harrison Ford crack a joke about themselves, I, I just, it gives me hope. It's like, you know, the idea of like, they still have some youth left into them. They don't take themselves so seriously. yeah And then you watch, and then you watch John Voight who takes himself incredibly seriously.
Speaker: it's like, I don't, I don't want to be that when I'm 78. I don't want to be sitting there going, acting acting like, I don't want to ever become that kind of adult.
Speaker: Right. I always want to be the kind of that when- Yeah, whimsical and humorous and you don't have enough self-examination skill to like laugh at yourself, what what do you even do?
Speaker: You know, what do you, Elon Musk? Are you a robot? What's happening? And if somebody if anybody had some stuff to laugh about about themselves, God knows he does. Yeah.
Speaker: um Okay. So I think that's it. We are wrapped up. And I have to say, i'm I'm so glad that you came on the show because we see each other online a lot, but we've never really talked. And this was a hell of a good conversation. I'm so glad that we had it.
Speaker: Cool. and Actually, this this went much better than... Of course, anything anything involving the the publicity end of this this business, I have a good long panic attack working up to it actually it. Actually, no, thank you to Prozac. I do no longer have a panic attack about it, but I do get pretty stressed.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I get that like when I have outside events, but if I feel like I'm in my element, then you know i I don't. i'm kidding think I'm getting better about signings.
Speaker: Good. That's great. And that's the thing, is that a signing, you can kind of barricade yourself behind a table. They they tell you to to like get out and talk pete to people like you're the ambassador of the bookstore or whatever, but if you if you really want to, you can just be behind a table.
Speaker: And actually I've gotten like really good at like, this is, this is an this is a um skill I learned to telemarketing, how to go through your books in a perfectly timed spiel that gives the people an understanding of what the books are about, makes them sound appealing, but doesn't take too long.
Speaker: Oh, right. Is that called an elevator pitch? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, but I think like what what you do with signing, you got to be a little snappier about it. because like Especially if it's like a big con signing, because you've got their attention for nanoseconds.
Speaker: So you better, better get it like really quickly. That makes sense. That makes sense. Wow. Okay. So, so yeah, I think that's, I keep saying we're going to wrap it up and then we don't. That's how you know we're from the Midwest.
Speaker: Like we just, well, thanks for stopping by. Stand up, wipe my hands like this, open the door and then think of something else we should talk about. No, I'm, All right. So I want to thank you one last time and then thank everybody for listening. Y'all are great and do find us on coffee. We will see everybody next week.
