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Her Media Diary Episode 12."Taking Brave steps" with Adelle Onyango
14 Plays1 year ago
Adelle Onyango is a Kenyan media personality, podcaster and founder of the Adelle Onyango Initiative, an organisation that empowers youth and provides psycho-social support to African women survivors of rape. Through her podcast, Legally Clueless, she captures the raw human stories of everyday Africans.
In this episode, Adelle shares the stories behind the many brave steps she has taken, from her career to her activism and use of media to tackle gender-based violence. Adelle's story embodies resilience and what happens when you confront your fears.
If you are contemplating that next big step, if you want to empower others through media and storytelling, you'll want to listen to this episode.
Subscribe be to Her Media Diary now on your favourite podcasting platform https://linktr.ee/hermediadiary
Learn about African Women in Media https://africanwomeninmedia.com
List of organisations that support survivors
Masimanyane Women’s Rights International: https://www.masimanyane.org/
Gender Violence Recovery Centre (GVRC): https://gvrc.or.ke/
The Gender-based Violence Command Centre (GBVCC): https://gbv.org.za/about-us/
FORWARDUK: https://www.forwarduk.org.uk/i-need-help/
Woman’s Aid: https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/
Women Empowerment and Legal Aid (WELA): https://welaonline.org/
MUSASA: https://www.musasa.co.zw/
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Transcript
Adele's Media Challenges and Intentions
00:00:00
Speaker
I'd started getting uncomfortable with the media interviews I was doing. And I was like, okay, so why did you put yourself in that situation again? Whatever comes naturally to me, I sit in it. I don't ignore it. When I was young, like in my head, nothing is impossible to make. And I remember once going for an interview, I hated that I became the token survivor. Yet I had things I wanted to share about what policies need to change.
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Her Media Diary, a podcast that captures lived experiences of African women working in media industries. I am Dr. Yamsee Akimbobola, and in this episode, I'm joined by
Introducing Her Media Diary Podcast
00:00:44
Speaker
Adele Oyango, a Kenyan media personality, radio presenter, podcaster, poet, and actor.
00:00:50
Speaker
With her organization, the Adele Oyango Initiative, which helps provide free psychosocial support for women who have survived rape, Adele is proactive about speaking on sexual harassment and gender-based violence and most importantly, supporting other survivors like herself. In this episode, Adele and I look at sexual harassment in the broadcast industry and how she
Sexual Harassment in African Media
00:01:12
Speaker
overcame some of the most challenging moments in her life and her career.
00:01:16
Speaker
Now to give some context, in 2020, African Women in Media and Foyo Media Institute conducted research that looked at barriers faced by African women working in media, one of the most prominent barriers for sexual harassment. And throughout this series, we'll be in conversation with African women working in a range of media industries to discuss the various issues that emerged from the research.
00:01:38
Speaker
By inviting these voices into conversation, we hope to provide solutions to break down barriers faced by African women in media. Before we start though, a quick disclaimer to our listeners. Sexual harassment and gender-based violence is a sensitive topic and one that can be distressing and triggering. In the show notes, we have included links to helplines, support groups and organisations that specialise in supporting survivors of sexual harassment and violence.
Adele's Journey and Sisterhood
00:02:05
Speaker
All right. So Adele and Yango, what an absolute pleasure it is to have you on the podcast. I'm so excited because I've known you since 2019 at the conference in Awem 2019 in Nairobi. And then the world has changed so much since then and you've done so much amazing work since then. So it's really great to have you on the podcast.
00:02:24
Speaker
Thank you so much. And I just, you know, first I want to give you your flowers when you can still smell them. Like you're so inspiring. Remember when we first met, I was just starting my podcast and you did this thing that is so powerful of just like sharing resources about like, you need to check out this site and this site. You can talk to this person. And I think that's really magical in terms of sisterhood. Just being able to put on another sisters is something. I always remember that and I'm so thankful.
00:02:53
Speaker
Oh, thank you. I completely
Family Influences and Challenges
00:02:55
Speaker
forgot all of that. So I'm grateful that it's helped. And you know, anyway, anyway, so Adele, you're doing amazing work, podcast book, so many initiatives, but I really want to get to know you a lot better. So I know that you come from a household of girls. So tell us about growing up. Tell us the backstory of Adele or Yango.
00:03:27
Speaker
I'm the third born and last born of three girls. And my mom probably purchased the most best family planning ever because we're three girls, there's three years in between each of us. All our names begin with A, so the first one is Anne Marie, then Amanda and then me. And what I found to be very interesting of late is that my mom named me after
00:03:45
Speaker
I like to call like my childhood home estrogen FM because it was just
00:03:52
Speaker
her favorite news anchor in the States. And then I ended up going to India, which is quite interesting. And for a long, maybe like 10, 11 years of my life, I lived, you know, mom, dad, and my sisters, but my dad,
00:04:08
Speaker
I can extend grace to him now, but he had an alcohol problem. He was physically abusive. And so my mom left my dad at a time when it was not heard of. When you get married, you're meant to stay there no matter how comfortable it is.
00:04:24
Speaker
And so she left at a point when like the church was, you know, we were Catholic back then and divorce wasn't allowed, I don't know about now. There was so much stigma she faced and she left with three girls and had to take us through school.
00:04:39
Speaker
And I remember my mom had been going back to school during this time and around that time she was also going through breast cancer treatment. This was like in 1999. And so I say all this just to say I came the first and most important example of femininity and womanhood for me was my mom and it was such a strong example. And I think why it's instrumental and I love that you started this with childhood is that she met us where we were and I was the kid who was very creative
00:05:09
Speaker
and loved poetry and didn't do well in math. And my mom didn't force me to be anything other than myself. And so from a very
00:05:27
Speaker
young age, I was very comfortable being weird.
Accidental Radio Career and Passion for Audio
00:05:30
Speaker
And, you know, when teenagers when people are planning to go to the movies and things that like your average teenager does, I'm like, Oh, I can't wait to get my hands on this new Jamaican poetry anthology. And so
00:05:50
Speaker
I think that gave me a very strong foundation and even cancer. I mean, she was talking about having breast cancer at a time where it was stigmatized and you couldn't say it openly that you had cancer. You would lose your job, which ended up happening to her.
00:06:05
Speaker
And she then went on to create and lead the Kenya Breast Health Program, which was like advocacy work around policies on cancer, giving resources to women who couldn't afford chemo, couldn't afford radiotherapy. So she was in the activism space based on her own story. And I think for me, then going through everything I've gone through in life, it made me not ashamed to own dark parts of my story and use that to kind of build something bigger than
00:06:35
Speaker
than me. And I think, yeah, I think that just my childhood was quite powerful when I think about it now in hindsight. Yeah, I mean, everything that you said is kind of like around, you know, this woman facing all of these societal stigmas and just facing it head on. So that must definitely have had influence on you in terms of what you then went on to do.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I don't even think it was conscious. You know, like when you're silent enough, you can hear your inner voice, you can hear what's comfortable, what you're genuinely passionate about. And I think even the root of taking it, there's so many similarities with my mom, but I wasn't conscious about it. It's like now that I'm older, I'm like, oh, hang on.
00:07:18
Speaker
So many things are so similar. That was a great childhood. But in terms of your Korean in media, so I read that you were scouted while you were still in university. Tell us about that. How did you get into radio? Man, it was not the plan. And I think that's the case for so many people. We plan and the universe is just like good one, but that's not going to happen.
00:07:43
Speaker
Before I went into uni, I really was interested in public relations. And so my mom made me work at another powerful African woman. Her name is Gina Din, and she ran a public relations organization firm. And so I worked there when I was 16. And after I worked there for a couple of months, I was like, this is what I want to do. And I tried to convince my mom not to waste money on school fees for uni, because I was like, these guys will say they want to hire me.
00:08:12
Speaker
I, you know, I have everything I need and you know, right?
00:08:17
Speaker
And you know how that went down with an African mom. It was just like crazy. And so the good thing is that when I went into uni, then I knew it was media and I knew my course was going to specialize in public relations. And so that's what I did. I only did one broadcast media course by mistake. I ticked this course called integrated media. And when I got there, they were like, oh, you do a radio bulletin.
00:08:42
Speaker
TV bullets in and build a website and an article and I was coming from public relations. I'm just like, what is all that? What do you say? But when I was in campus, I was in USIU in Kenya and we had a radio station and I was invited on because I used to write poetry. I mean, I am a poet and I was invited on a show on a Saturday to share my poetry and
00:09:05
Speaker
So I shared my poetry and the host told me to stay the entire show. And then the next Saturday, he called me back and said after that, after that, what I didn't know, which could be like another conversation on my rights and consent. He was recording all our shows and sending those CDs out to different media houses.
00:09:26
Speaker
then I got a call. I got a call from a station and I was in my third year I got a call from a station and they're like hey this is one of them. At the time I thought they wanted to interview me for poetry so I was like feeling like a bit of a celebrity. I'm just like what did you want me in?
00:09:44
Speaker
The program's controller is like, we actually want you for a job. Can you host a radio show? Of course, I had never done such a thing. Even though I was going on this radio show, I was sitting on the other side of the desk. He would turn on the mic, do all the technical stuff. I would just talk. And I said, yes, as you do to opportunities. I was like, I'll land on the job. The job. Yeah, exactly. And you know, so many women actually don't do that. I mean, that's one of the things that we learn, isn't it? That's actually, the men are more
00:10:10
Speaker
likely to say yes to something that they have nothing, no knowledge about. Or as we wait until we're very, very ready, like we've got the PhD and all that on the topic. Exactly. So it's quite brave. I was like, I'm just going to go. And I was like, I'll become friends with the producer. I will learn on the job. And that's how I got my first radio job. And I was thrown into the drive show, which is a peak time show. And I had no experience whatsoever. And I kind of just had to put one foot in front of the other.
00:10:40
Speaker
But it ended up being so natural and I really fell in love with audio. I know the world is like, video is king. I think there's something magical about your voice and there's an intimacy that audio has that video just will never give you. And I just kind of like put one foot in front of the other, became very close friends with all the producers so I could learn how to edit and run the desk.
Embracing Opportunities and Initiatives
00:11:05
Speaker
And that's how I got into radio. I literally, it was just by chance and this guy recording the shows. So it's a combination of somebody believing in you, perhaps, right? Yes. Okay, this person is great in places, right? Exactly. So there is a gray line there on consent, but it kind of worked out for you.
00:11:28
Speaker
Exactly. For those listeners of this podcast thinking about, okay, how do I do that? How do I just say yes to an opportunity where I know that I'm not entirely ready? Reflecting on you doing that, what would you say you learned the most from having taken that big leap? Yeah. I think it's something I was doing even from before and even now. Now it's gotten a lot easier to know what I want to say yes to. I think it's because I learned from a very young age just to
00:11:56
Speaker
say yes. I've worked in like a car, like we know they were selling trucks. I didn't know anything about trucks. I was doing some accounts thing. Tell me you were selling trucks, okay. I was doing like back, I was like probably 17 or 18 and I just wanted to make money. And I think I lasted all of one month because I was just like, what are all these numbers?
00:12:19
Speaker
What is happening here? So I didn't last. And then I also just remembered, I said yes to a teaching job. I was going to teach primary school students how to swim because I swam competitively and represented the country throughout school. And I was like, oh, this is a nice way to make money around something that I like. I lasted one day, one day.
00:12:41
Speaker
And I completely, and I was even remembering it. I was just like, man, I need to call that head teacher and apologize because I was, I was 16. I just went silent. Like I did it for one day and then I stopped picking her calls because I was like, I hate this job so much. There are so many kids all talking at the same time. I can't do this.
00:13:02
Speaker
But you see, in saying yes to opportunities, you find out what you love and what you don't love. And it makes it so much easier, like now I'm at the age where, even with my business, it's so clear to me, there are people who I won't work with because that's not my path. And it's because of just exercising that muscle to find out what is for me, what is not for me.
00:13:22
Speaker
And I think it's also helped me understand the value that I have that can't sit on a degree. So I have a wealth of experience that I can even earn a living from that is not from like formal education. And it's from all of the things I've said yes to, I've been able to sit back and say, oh, I also have this skill, I also have this skill. And I think as women, we're always told to like tone down, like how to maneuver ahead is like, don't be too much. I think there's like a man in a basement
00:13:52
Speaker
creating all of these, these lies, just like cackling to himself, because I'm like, tone down, why would you want to reduce who you are? Like, why would you think being more in touch with your emotions is a weakness? So it's going through that process of saying yes all the time to as many things as possible, but then gradually beginning to learn how to say no as you're beginning to find your path and being strategic about your nose, you know,
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah. So you just, it's just like when you exercise the yes muscle, you get to fully know yourself and you get to build skills that you can even cost for later and earn a living from, you know, um, you don't have to tone down anything. Yeah. And talking, you're talking about your business and you've built a whole lot of series of initiatives from She Will Connect to No Means No, Sisterhood, and Apologically, African with Never Side talking about your podcast, right? So.
00:14:48
Speaker
She got the Adele on Yango initiative, which basically does a lot of things, but still quite focused actually around empowering women, around sexual harassment, around kind of telling the African story, right? So all of these are really important
00:15:03
Speaker
objectives, really important issues. So reflecting on the amazing work you've done, we've talked a little bit about saying yes in order to find your path, but how did you get down this alley, this particular alley around empowerment and all of that? Yes, absolutely. It's that. But now I'm exercising my no muscle. I'm now learning that I don't even have to quantify my no. It's a complete sentence.
00:15:29
Speaker
Oh my God, sorry. Just do it. It's my motto in life. That's my motto in life. Just do it. Get it started. Yes, it's crap. I remember, I mean, if you listen to the first few episodes of the podcast, you'd be thinking, oh my God, what are you thinking of? But you learn as you go. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. I just had to jump in there.
00:15:47
Speaker
I think first I've always loved creating things and it was something that was encouraged when I was young like in my head nothing is impossible to to make and to do and I don't have to have Beyonce budgets like just
00:16:03
Speaker
Just do it. It'll make sense as you go, you know? It's organic, organic, right? Absolutely. No, I hear you. And then also just like being around. So my mom and I were just not like mother daughter. We were actually like best friends. She's now passed on. And it was, when you, it's so
00:16:22
Speaker
so much such close proximity to seeing someone using their life story to build something bigger than them that's helping other women. We used to have different women living with us because we lived in Nairobi, capital of Kenya. And at the time there was only one government hospital where you could come and get chemo. So some women would only have the money for their chemo and not for finding where to stay. So our house, we had like women would come and live with us as they are getting there.
00:16:51
Speaker
their chemo. And so I think going through that, it was teaching me like, okay, it's something bigger than you, something bigger than you. And when I unfortunately then survived rain, I remember being very angry that I would not hear anyone talk about
00:17:06
Speaker
this. I just was like, how are we operating like this is not happening? And I remember the first No Means No was birthed from anger, 100% just being like, you guys are crazy. You're just going on with your lives and this madness is happening. And we're acting like nothing, like everything is okay. And when I got together some of my friends, artists, and we did like
00:17:29
Speaker
a photo activism campaign called No Men's No. And even if you see, as you've mentioned all of these things, if you see the emotions even behind the words, you can kind of see almost like a glimpse of the healing or where I was at emotionally. Because I did No Men's No and I used a lot of digital platforms, back then there was no Instagram, it was just Facebook, to understand what other countries were doing in terms of activism.
00:17:55
Speaker
and in terms of sensitizing people on sexual violence. And I had friends who were in the UK who were like, oh, we're going to clubs and we see these posters. And friends from Botswana, from Zambia, from Nigeria, and they would share these things. And we was just a platform for conversation.
00:18:13
Speaker
And then when I got into therapy, I was like, wow, this is actually helping me. I'd never done therapy in my life before then. And I talked to two friends who were therapists and I was like, can you just offer free time on Saturdays? If somebody DMs me on Facebook and they want therapy, can you do this? So it was really, um, I don't even know what the English word is, but in Kiswahili, you say, when something is disorganized, but it's, it's moving. Yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. Exactly. And so it grew. And then the next thing was kind of like having it grow into understanding the power of sisterhood. I was like, oh, this is such a beautiful thing for African women, especially like building those communities of sisterhood beat around industries and emotional sisterhood, whatever it is. And so
00:19:08
Speaker
It became so beautiful to then now launch the Sisterhood campaign and bring women together, even beyond sexual violence, just whatever it was we're healing from. And so I think I just, first and foremost, growing up in the East Virginia film, I was already biased to women's issues, right? And then...
00:19:28
Speaker
And then seeing my mom. And so it just, I really thrive when I'm working with women, when I hire women, I can't explain it. It feels so
Facing Backlash and Legal Support
00:19:38
Speaker
magical for me. And I'm now very focused on whatever comes naturally to me, I sit in it. I don't ignore it. Like that's something in your DNA or something, right? So that's kind of how it grew. And then by the time I launched the Delonyango Initiative, it was kind of like to bring order in the house.
00:19:58
Speaker
I was trying to solve everything around sexual violence and it was frustrating. It's a big problem. There's cultural aspects, there's justice, the actual justice system, there is the medical system.
00:20:19
Speaker
That was going to be my next question actually is that so you have this lived experience and the other kind of background experiences also that led you down a particular path and it was going organically. But the reality is that culturally, societally, there's so many other barriers to you even achieving any of the things you wanted to achieve. So all the realities of trying to initiate all these ideas or bringing people together and trying to make that change.
00:20:45
Speaker
I think initially I lived a very sheltered life, so I was always around very exposed people who just got it and who let me be me, so my friends and stuff. At the beginning, I hadn't become too visible in the public.
00:21:01
Speaker
So I was kind of sheltered. I was talking to people who got it even on digital platforms. There were no trolls and things like that. But then now when I got onto radio, which was what in 2010, I think I started actively talking about it maybe in 2011 on a public platform. Then the bubble bursts.
00:21:22
Speaker
I thought everybody got it. We're trying to make the world better for women. Who would be against that? Turns out quite a few people are against it. It comes off as you're threatening the privilege or power that African men have. You start to understand that it's not as common sense to everyone as it is to you. The major barriers were cyberbullying.
00:21:50
Speaker
like that was intense it was and you know it's the point when the internet is taking off so that anonymity has the excitement around it is that an all time high because people are just discovering this thing and so you'll find that i remember once i was.
00:22:07
Speaker
trolled for 24 hours, like morning to evening. And it was around speaking up for women. And it became, I heard all things, like it became a lesbian, which I didn't understand. I was like, how is this an insult? Like, I don't understand. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:22:25
Speaker
I'm going to ask the person, I think you need to revisit that insult. Bring another one. No one is. And like, you know, I remember this tweet to date, like there's a guy who tweeted and said, she even looks like she has HIV from that
Balancing Activism and Well-being
00:22:41
Speaker
rape experience. And it was so, and I think for me, it was, I was shocked for a couple of days. It was more shock before it became painful, because it was like,
00:22:51
Speaker
Are there human beings like this? Like, is this an actual human being behind this phone? Or like, am I dreaming all of this? Because how can someone who doesn't know me be so vile? Like what have I done to this individual to cause them to be so mean to me? And I think at the beginning, I used to try and educate everybody who showed that they didn't get why we needed to ensure women's safety, why we needed to end sexual violence.
00:23:16
Speaker
Until I realized, I used to do that work, like every small person, like even if you insult me, I'm like, listen, read this article, like two junior strangers. Until I realized, hang on, you get it. You just don't want to lose your privilege.
00:23:32
Speaker
You're so comfortable in it, you don't want to lose it. One, two, maybe there has been a moment where you have crossed the line, you know? Maybe a woman has told you no and you have kept on going and you would rather insult me than face the reality of you actually crossed the line at one point, you know?
00:23:50
Speaker
And so I then now, obviously maybe age helps, like I'm a lot calmer. I wouldn't get into a back and forth fight with a stranger. I just started understanding that also what's important is stronger laws and stronger enforcement of laws. So I'm not going to stay here arguing with you. I just want to make sure that if, as you're justifying sexual violence, you go out and perpetrate this crime.
00:24:16
Speaker
Like that's just it. I'm not going to now sit because it's also retriggering for me and I have to protect myself. But honestly, the blowback was cyberbullying, which I still get to date. But I mean, these platforms, they're not doing enough, but they're doing a bit. You can mute certain words. If you insult me and call me a toxic feminist, I will not see it.
00:24:37
Speaker
Well, I mean, that's what I was going to say that all of this was online violence, right? It's still part of the old gender-based violence dialogue, isn't it? Especially because you're trying to change the status quo, you're holding the mirror up to society to see itself, and people don't want to see that, just like you said, you know?
00:24:56
Speaker
And you talk about being triggered in some of these things. How do you navigate that in a balance between trying to make the change and the impact for others while still protecting you? It is so difficult. I'm thankful that I'm privileged enough to afford therapy.
00:25:15
Speaker
And even as of now, I have two therapists and it's because one is specifically around the blowback of sexual violence and experiencing that, but it's like you have to do so much more than the next person who is fighting, who hasn't experienced it, right?
00:25:34
Speaker
And so I've learned to like first check in with myself and just, I don't attend. I think before I used to feel pressured to like, if something happens, I have to speak about it. I have to speak about it. I have to speak about it. And now a lot come. I don't attend every digital activism campaign or whatever. There's some, I'll just sit out and not feel guilty because I'm just like, at this moment, I only want to read poetry and like,
00:26:00
Speaker
sit in the sun. I do not have energy for this right now guys. When I do, I'll come back. So I've learned to check in with myself. I've also learned there's a very good friend of mine Joaquin Gumi and she's like a powerful like, you know, one of those people in like my sisterhood thing and kind of like checks in on me and
00:26:17
Speaker
I remember her once, even with my podcast, and I recorded stories by other survivors of sexual violence. And she's constantly, she was the one who pointed out, you need to debrief, you need to debrief. Talk to, call your therapist and talk about debriefing. And that's something that completely helped me not get so retriggered when I'm recording those stories, especially during the pandemic. There was a lot of stories I was recording cause like our cases tripled within three weeks of the lockdown.
00:26:45
Speaker
So I've learned how to not feel guilty about prioritizing my own health as a survivor, but still kind of like getting the work done. What also helps is having a sisterhood and just kind of tapping out and knowing that there wouldn't be silence on this issue. There's other women who are like shouting about
Media's Role in Reporting Violence
00:27:05
Speaker
it. And then when they can't handle it, kind of like throwing it back to me and I'm like, okay, I got it.
00:27:10
Speaker
We can do this, but it's also delicate. There are some times that you will still get retriggered. You might think you're fully okay and you start having that conversation and you'll get retriggered. There are moments where even with media interviews, you know, as I said, I'm exercising that no muscle because I've had moments where I've forced myself to go for them because I'm like, this is a point to amplify this issue and stuff. And I remember once going for an interview, I hated that I became the token survivor.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yet I had things I wanted to share about what policies need to change. You know, it's a live TV interview. It's so hard to like jump in and say, I have something to say about this and all of that. And when I was leaving one of the producers, because unfortunately my experience was on a back street and one of the producers, a man starts leaving the interview and this producer says to me as I'm leaving, or just make sure you don't get into any dark alleys again. And he laughs.
00:28:09
Speaker
And I remember being so angry. I don't get angry often, so I still remember how that rage was that night. And at first I was mad at myself because I'd started getting uncomfortable with the media interviews I was doing. And I was like, okay, so why did you put yourself in that situation again, in that environment again?
00:28:29
Speaker
In my head, I keep saying I'm doing the interviews to push change. But if a producer of this show is making such jokes based on what I've just said I've experienced that was so traumatic, are we really making any change? Is that person able to even produce this in a manner that it impacts?
00:28:48
Speaker
I just... Yeah, it makes you question whether you can trust them with your story, right? Exactly. And so, I think for me then, it was just a situation where it's made me question... And this was years ago, and it's only now I'm coming to the point of rejecting interviews and being able to vocalize and say, no, I'm not in a position to come on your show. Maybe at that point, I'm going through some sort of trigger, etc. But I've gotten to the point
00:29:15
Speaker
point where even if I don't trust your platform, I'm not going to come and talk about it. And it's, I don't feel good about it, you know? So that was, that was not fun. That was absolutely terrible. Yeah. And I mean, African women in media, we've been doing their projects and we're going to be doing it for the next three years and focused in Nigeria though on media reporting violence against women and girls because recognize on two fronts. So you have the kind of, um, sensitivities in terms of media content.
00:29:43
Speaker
Right? And how the language, the way in which they deal with survivors and victims in their stories, right? And the need for us to improve the practice around that. But then also on the other side, because our women, as you know, works with women journalists, right? And the trauma that they face reporting on violence against women and girls.
00:29:59
Speaker
And what we found so far is actually there's a lot of the people that we've been working with themselves aware of or otherwise experience the trauma as a result of these stories. So there's a two-pronged approach really in terms of making sure that things like what the producer said can never happen again, making sure that we're developing a media force that we can entrust with such
00:30:20
Speaker
sensitive stories and that, you know, their personal biases or personal perspectives has no place in how the media reporting. And then, but, and also making sure that the environmental sense of the organizational policies and all that prevents these kinds of things happening, but also making sure that the journalists and the reporters who are reporting on this themselves have coping mechanisms to make sure that they themselves are able to perform their roles adequately.
00:30:45
Speaker
And I think that's so important because even if you read reports, I know there's a report done in Kenya, even on sexual harassment and media houses were leading as organizations that had, you know, a high number of sexual harassment cases, then how do you expect
00:31:01
Speaker
them to be able to report on things when it's happening right in their organization and there's no policy, there's no framework. They don't even see harassment as harassment. I think for me, it's like there's a lot of workshops that need to happen, but even locally for us with like Media Council, Communications Authority, they say they have workshops, but I'm like, who created this workshop? What sort of validation has it gone through? Has it even passed through Survivors Network of Kenya?
00:31:30
Speaker
to always, because I believe these things must always center survivors because they are such an insight into them. So it's also like when you tick a box and say, well, we have this workshop and we have this, this, I'm like, what is the quality of this workshop? You know, is it even relevant to like present day? Has it evolved with even including things like online violence, you know? And so yeah, what the work you're doing, I hope it extends after Nigeria.
00:31:57
Speaker
I hope so too. I mean, it's been such an interesting few months. We only just started this second half of this year and it's going to run for three years, like I said. But it's been really interesting. I mean, currently we're having this conversation about these two girls who fought over a guy and then the family of the other girl, then to kidnap this other girl and beat her up. You know, the conversation as well, okay, which angle
00:32:19
Speaker
How do you tell the story that trivializing with that narrative of two girls fighting over a guy, right? Exactly. Because there's a lot more than that. So it's just those kinds of things where you really understand the crux of the matter and don't fall into the usual kind of tropes of victim blaming of saying, well, this happened because she did this, that kind of thing. She shouldn't have stolen her man.
00:32:45
Speaker
You know, that kind of thing. Whereas that's not the story. There's a crime that's been committed. And how do you report that in a way that is sensitive and true to the story? You know, what's interesting is at OWM 2019, that was the workshop I did because what was irritating was you read in local Kenyan press a story about sexual violence and a woman. I remember once there was a woman who was raped.
00:33:09
Speaker
And when the article talked so much about the perpetrator, but it was things on, he never drank. He never smoked. He had this number of degrees and PhDs. And so I was like, what are you trying to do? It was a mistake. He's such a good sister.
00:33:27
Speaker
And then it also makes it, you're also like saying, perpetrators look a certain way. So they drink, they smoke, they are not learned or whatever. And at no point, so I was even like, you need to tap into even specialists in different areas.
Creating Legally Clueless Podcast
00:33:42
Speaker
So we're not writing enough about our inability to collect evidence and preserve it as a country.
00:33:49
Speaker
We're not writing about the judiciary and the biases that some of the judges have, the cultural biases. How does that affect justice? We don't even have a therapist come as part of that article to talk, you know, so it's an expert. So you're not sanitizing this person. Oh, and they'll use different words like villains. And I'm like, this is not criminal, right? Like a character, you know?
00:34:19
Speaker
And so I think, yeah, there is a long way and media is so instrumental, so much responsibility and we're just not tapping into it, right? Talking about media and tapping into things, right. You got your podcast, League of Clueless, and you tell amazing African stories. First of all, explain that title because I still don't get it.
00:34:43
Speaker
I know everybody's like, so are you a lawyer? I'm just like, no, no, not at all. So I worked as a radio presenter for 10 years. And when I was leaving, actually, I think I keep on referring to OWM 2019 because it was the first event I did after designing for my job. And I left a breakfast show on the top radio station in Kenya. We were the number three most listened to breakfast show.
00:35:10
Speaker
and the top two, one was in Kiswahili, so there's no way we're ever going to beat it. So I literally left at a point when everyone would think it's a point she's staying. And I just talked about taking brief steps. Right? I was like, I'm turning 30. I hate this job. I hate the environment. It's not
00:35:31
Speaker
challenging anymore I can do this show in my sleep I want more like and you know we were pop entertainment station I realized I didn't have opinions on anything entertainment I genuinely didn't care like I you would tell me a story my co-host god bless him would tell me a story and I just be oh so and so is dating so and so what do you think and I'm like well I don't know why I should think anything
00:35:57
Speaker
not my relationship, so why should I give a damn?" And I just was realizing, okay, I've expanded past this space. It's time to get out. And when I left, I thought I was going to go into the NGO world and do more of the work around ending sexual violence. And a friend, he told me about podcasts. I'd never listened to a podcast before then. I didn't even know what the heck that was really. He was like, oh, you should listen to a podcast.
00:36:22
Speaker
I googled what you need and obviously you know when you resign you're not trying to dip into your savings because you don't know what the future is looking like. I was like I'm gonna google but I don't think I'm gonna purchase anything and I saw like USB microphones and I was like wow I can afford to comfortably.
00:36:41
Speaker
All right, I have my laptop. I can just upgrade it. And that's how Legally Cooler started. And I remember I started constructing the extra room in my apartment. I made it into like a home office stroke studio. And it was the first time a lot of, we call them Fundis, like the workmen. They are known for like just taking forever to finish projects.
00:37:01
Speaker
But this is the first time the Fundi was on time, on schedule. My microphones arrived on time, on schedule. So the only person who was like stopping the process was me and like my fear of failure and fear of the unknown. And I called that same friend. He's like my best friend and I called him and I was crying and I cry a lot. So he's just like,
00:37:21
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know what I've done. I put in my resignation. Should I go back and be like, I'm serving my notice at this time. And he's like, so he said, then record that, like record what you're feeling right now. And I literally hung up and I started recording and that name came to me.
00:37:39
Speaker
It just came to me. I was just like, I actually don't know what I'm doing, and it's okay. I'm almost soothing myself. It's okay not to know. It's okay. It's okay. That's where the legally clueless came from. It's just like, you are allowed not to know. You're allowed to be clueless. In fact, all of us really are. We just kind of are winging it.
00:37:57
Speaker
And I think the first five episodes I would share the things I was navigating and you know in those moments my grief became more intense because my mom would be the person I would talk to about things, go through contracts with and I was like oh my god I gotta do these things alone.
00:38:15
Speaker
I would talk about those things and then I realized I don't have a monopoly on the human experience and I was also like thirsty to know like other African stories and it started off like I just ripped up my contacts, my phone went through my contacts, literally went through everyone. I'm like yeah whatever.
00:38:30
Speaker
hang out with this guy he has lots of stories I'm gonna ask him hey this guy I actually don't know his story and I'm sure these one I'm gonna ask him to come on and I kind of like said I said a target of like so the feature where the story sit is called a hundred African stories because I thought it would take me 10 years record a hundred African stories and it didn't it would episode 189 like
Navigating Career Changes
00:38:57
Speaker
We're in our third year and it's like we've had an episode out every week and so I tell people now, oh no, I meant hundreds of African stories.
00:39:10
Speaker
It's been so expanding to record because we've grown as of now. We're a new media company. So we have the audio podcast. We have three seasons of a video series. We have a tour series. So we went to across Kenya on a tour. We went to Dubai twice, to Paris, to Zimbabwe. And I think Zimbabwe was the one that I felt like this is why I'm doing this work because it's been the story of that country has been told through
00:39:36
Speaker
Western lens. And when I went there for myself, I was like, this place is magical. I would live here. I just felt so spiritually tethered there. And I was like, this is why I'm doing this work, to be able to have us tell our own stories. And we started workshops to help upscale Africans and wellness events, because I'm really big. And you have to be whole inside. So yoga and group therapy stuff.
00:40:01
Speaker
And it's just crazy that all of this started from a podcast and episode one is eight minutes coming from traditional radio. That felt like eons to me. I was just like, why am I still talking? Cause we had talked for like one minute long on traditional radio and it's my business shaking. And I still, when I look at my insights, I still see it's like one of the top listened to cause I guess when people start coming in and discover the podcast, they start there and I'm like, why don't they start from episode two? Why don't I have to?
00:40:28
Speaker
I think it's beautiful as well to look back and just be like, wow, my voice was shaking. I was crying. And it's just beautiful how it's grown organically. Well, a combination of things about thinking of leaving that job that they're not quite happy with. And they know what they want to do, but they're kind of scared. So what would you say to them? And then two, in terms of starting something like a podcast. And not only have you successfully grown the podcast
00:40:55
Speaker
your initiative, but you are an influencer, right? You kind of have this influence and I don't know whether not everybody likes that word influencer, so please, you know, but you understand what I'm saying, right? But the impact that you've had and that you continue to have, like in hindsight, would you have done things differently or what would you say is for those people just starting that journey, what would be your one thing that you would say to them?
00:41:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a couple of things actually. One, it's fear is normal. It's like a normal emotion. I don't think, I think there was a time I thought you enforce a decision when you're at a point of no fear. But now I know these never points you have no fear. Like it'll always be there. You just have to ensure it doesn't win. And I've also understood that you need to name your fears. I think for a long time, I was writing, you know, in your resignation, you have this line, it's been a great three years working here.
00:41:50
Speaker
I used to have to keep editing that because it took me four years to resign. It's been a great five years. It's been a great six years. It's been a great seven years. And I was just like, oh my goodness, when am I going to do this? And I think the breaking point for me was when I started naming my fears. And so I was like,
00:42:08
Speaker
Okay, what are some of these fears you have? I have a fear of not being financially stable. Great. What can we do to ensure that you will be financially stable and kind of like working back from there to savings, investing in certain things and just knowing that, okay, and I leave my job for two years, I'm going to be okay financially. And then that fear kind of reduces, right? And then saying, okay, another fear is fear of failure.
00:42:34
Speaker
Okay, let's define this failure thing. And I think especially that one, I realize failure is not a thing. It actually doesn't exist. It's not a thing. I know like motivational talks will be like, fail forward. I'm just like, but it's not a thing. Like it doesn't exist, you know? And so I always just believe if something doesn't work out the way you thought, there's higher powers at play and it's just like the universe nudging you back into your destiny path. It's not a,
00:43:01
Speaker
Oh my goodness. And you can't also reduce your entire being to like a bad grade or a bad assignment. Like, so I'm just like, I don't think failure is a thing guys. Like we manufactured this. It doesn't exist. And so name your fears makes it easy for you to figure out how to ensure they don't win. And some of them.
00:43:21
Speaker
We just do this thing where we sit and feel like, oh, I'm too scared, I'm too scared and you don't do anything. But when you name them, then you can be like, okay, the solution here is like, I need to do ABCD. I need to give myself a deadline. I need to, you know, I can't sit in this thing. And the other thing, which funny enough, I was talking to a friend about it recently is you're always told don't resign from a job before you have your next thing. But I think sometimes advice needs to evolve with the times because if you are in a toxic workplace, you will not have the mental capability to figure out what the
00:43:51
Speaker
next is, it just will not be there. The advice then needs to be, okay, how can we make sure that yes, it's a capitalist system? How do we make sure that financially you're covered when you get out so that you then have a conducive environment to figure out, hey, what's going to be my next thing? So you're not making a decision of your next job from desperation, from fear or whatever. It's like a more calm, grounded decision. And I battled with that piece of advice because you're told that from when you joined the workforce,
00:44:18
Speaker
don't leave one until you have the next one lined up. And I'm like, what is the next one? I've been doing this media thing for 10 years. I don't know what else I'm good at. And so as soon as I handed that resignation in a week, I knew I was going to go into podcasting. It speaks to what it does for your mental once you're out of that space, even once you've accepted, oh, I'm leaving. And I think just start
00:44:41
Speaker
Your life doesn't have to look like the next person's life. So it doesn't have to look like wearing a suit and going into an office. It doesn't have to look like, I mean, I live in a farm town now and doesn't have to look like riding a tractor and harvesting things, right? All of those things are work. You know, mine, most of the times I do night shifts. So I will be very easy and chill during the day. And then at 6pm, I know, okay, my night shift is starting. So like, doesn't have to look like you have to change that mindset, you know?
00:45:10
Speaker
It'll be okay. Nothing is ever a crisis. Everything will work out. Everything is working for your good.
Discussing 'Our Broken Silence' Book
00:45:19
Speaker
You just have to accept that. Earlier this year, your book, Our Broken Silence, was published, which you co-authored with, is it Lanji Oku? Yes, Lanji Oku. Do you know it was meant to be a podcast? You've got to tell yourself.
00:45:37
Speaker
She's Kenyan, but she's based between Kenya and New York. And she'd reached out because when I left my job, I started two podcasts and then I had to retire one because it was just now too expensive to maintain. And it was a live podcast where men and women would come and talk about gender issues. And she watched a couple of episodes and she's from a legal background. She runs a legal bureau and for her, it was
00:46:01
Speaker
She's doing a lot of research into access to justice for survivors, et cetera. And so she reached out and she's like, oh, we can work and partner on an episode. And the more we dug deep into it, we were like, this is a lot. Maybe it's even a season, not one episode. And then when I'm digging, and I remember she was like, this is a book. And my first reaction was fear. Because in my head, I was like, have I experienced enough in life to write a book, honestly?
00:46:30
Speaker
I mean those things like when I'm in my sixties and now I'm wise after years of experience now I can share and it's just like you know it's great again sisterhood to have someone nudge and be like no there is a lot you can say and we can let's dig deep and we can amplify other stories as well.
00:46:46
Speaker
And our Broken Silence was born. And so it's a diary entry format of stories of survivors of sexual violence and also people in their family. So in their support system, people from the medical field, people from the legal field, it includes vulnerable communities like the LGBTQ plus communities as well. And it looks at stories from pre-colonial time in East Africa to present day.
00:47:14
Speaker
And then you see running themes, like it's almost one of those things where it's like the more things change, the more they stay the same. And we both have chapters. So for others, I think what's powerful is to be able to have different ways people tell their stories. There's some that are one paragraph, and then there's some that are
00:47:33
Speaker
pages, there's some that's one sentence, you know, and it's like just so, and exploring the emotional themes that come with both being a survivor and being someone who wants to help, you're working in the judicial space, but you're not equipped with what you need to be able to make this change and it's a helplessness that you're experiencing.
00:47:54
Speaker
And then to my bits, I think, because we started writing in 2020, and that was one of the silver linings of the pandemic, is to be forced to pause. Obviously, there's a privilege in me saying that, but I'm being able to be still and silent enough to explore, okay, where am I in my healing journey? And to talk about things like even just rebuilding yourself as an African woman in a sexual sense, after sexual trauma.
00:48:19
Speaker
Bad enough, we don't even talk about sex as Africans. Now I had sexual trauma and trying to navigate that. It's like, hey, I think now you're going too far, you know? And we were able to explore those themes and say I'm rebuilding or even like what relationships look like. Talking about my views on universities that have failed to keep their students safe.
00:48:42
Speaker
And for me, it's such a powerful journey and we've realized that it's more than a book. So now we're going into the proceeds support two things. One, it supports a fund run by Lanji's company that helps first give survivors access to pro bono legal services.
00:49:01
Speaker
help you locate them because a lot of them are dealing with it while being in that same abusive environment so we've been able to relocate some and kind of like build a house for for one particular survivor and then most of the fonts go
00:49:16
Speaker
to my initiative so that we have a program called Safe 247 which is a free group therapy program across 14 weeks for survivors of sexual violence and it's free so that a survivor doesn't have to think about getting the money for this vital intervention.
00:49:32
Speaker
And we've realized that it's more than a book. So we're now exploring training, really being led by Lanji training, the members of the judiciary, and like, you guys have a bias when you're doing these cases. I mean, we had a, there is one judge who in a case of defilement, a minor defiled by an older man. He said, this girl looked right. And she went to that house, so she was looking for sex. So if that's what you're looking for, this is not a crime. That's the judge, you know?
00:50:01
Speaker
So even while we have conversations of evidence preservation, there is a training the judiciary needs to go through to be aware of their cultural bias and how harmful it is.
Future Goals on African Identity
00:50:14
Speaker
So it's funny, it started as a book, but it's like so much bigger and we're exploring other themes, exhibitions, films, and it's just, I don't think I've even really sat in like, oh my God, this is actually a big thing.
00:50:27
Speaker
I think the fear sometimes makes me run away where I'm just like, it's gone, Amazon buy it, redo it, and then I run away. But it's like, it's something that I'm going to be doing for a very long time. Yeah. I think there's a consistent thing there in your story of just doing it. Just like we said at the beginning, right? Yes, there's all the ifs and what happens and do, do, do, but just doing it.
00:50:49
Speaker
And then when you do it, you're taking on this magical journey where you just start with imagining a hundred podcasts in a hundred years and you're at 189 in three years, right? So same thing. I mean, I would not be surprised if this time next year, me and you are meeting up somewhere and you know, you're winning an Oscar for best international documentary on whatever, you know, that kind of thing. And I think what your story tells us is that, you know, you take the first step and you'd be surprised whether the journey will take you.
00:51:20
Speaker
Absolutely. Like my friend, again, the one who got, I really should give him shares because like, got me into podcasting and whenever I'm freaking out and I tell him and I'm like, what if it fails? And what if, and he's like, this is a waste of energy. Cause why couldn't you put this energy into thinking about what if it succeeds?
00:51:38
Speaker
So I always go back to that when I start panicking over something. I'm like, actually, let's sit in the thoughts that if it succeeds and it's so beautiful to be like, yeah, it will be so magical. It should be so la la la. And you feed the idea of this good positive energy instead of this dark, oh my God, it's not going to work.
00:51:55
Speaker
So I know we're kind of covering this question already, but briefly what next for Adele? Oh my goodness. I think what I've tapped into quite organically is being part of conversations on pan-Africanism and kind of like trying to rebuild my African identity. And it's a conversation that I thought I was not ever going to be part of because I thought you had to have degrees and PhDs, history, those things.
00:52:22
Speaker
And through the work that I've been doing in like recording African stories, I know it's our vision, but I didn't realize that we are actually doing it. We're helping Africans not only learn about each other, but learn about themselves and dig deep into their own identity. And I think I've pivoted obviously still bias to African women, but there is a drive I have.
00:52:45
Speaker
that is very Pan-African. And before I used to say, you know, I want to be on the forefront when you're talking about new media on the continent, I want my name to be on that list. And to a great extent, I have achieved that, but I think that statement was coming from ego. And now the statement is backed by, because I want to kind of like wake Africans up again and like tap in power, go back into who you are, rebuild your identity,
00:53:13
Speaker
You're amazing, you're dope, you're creative, and you're worthy the way you are, whether you're traditional or you're more modern or you swing across the board. That's enough as you are as an African. Now what I'm really focused on is touring across Africa with legally clueless Africa and being very intentional about that and being involved in more of those conversations. I'm going back to Zimbabwe soon to be involved in
00:53:40
Speaker
conversations around bringing back our objects and artifacts from colonialism. And it's crazy because if you told me even like five years from now, if you were like five years back, you're like, you'll be involved in this, this, this, I'd be like, but I don't even understand the thing that is studied.
00:53:57
Speaker
I'll be like, you are mad. I will be stuck in media. And I just have understood that my calling is so much higher in terms of an African awakening. And then my medium to achieve that calling is this new media thing that I'm doing. So it's not the other way around as it was before. And so yeah, I think that's what I'm tapping into now.
00:54:19
Speaker
Adele Yango, it's my pleasure speaking with you today. What an inspiring story. Thank you. You are such a natural in this. This is so beautiful. Like, it's up to like delayed flights and things. This is exactly what I needed. My spirit and my energy is lifted. But thank you. Brilliant. Thank you.
00:54:40
Speaker
Adele's episode was one of resilience, courage, patience and taking that leap of faith that a lot of us wish we could take at various points in our lives in our career. So I do hope you found Adele's story uplifting and encouraging.
00:54:57
Speaker
If you'd like to join me on an episode of this podcast, please contact me at GMC at AfricanWomenInMedia.com. You can also visit our main website at AfricanWomenInMedia.com to find out more about our work. In a show notes, there's a list of organisations and helplines to support you if you have experienced any of the topics we have discussed today. And don't forget, join the conversation using the hashtag hermetatiring.
00:55:23
Speaker
Her Media Diary is a product of African women in media and NGO advocating for gender equality in the industry. This episode was hosted by Dr. Yemi Siakini Bobola and produced by Fadila Sadal as a part of 5 podcast series on sexual harassment in the media. All musical featured in this podcast is by Nana Kwaibina. Thanks for listening. Join us again next time.