Ep.45: Crimes of Passion

Transcript

Speaker: Ooh.

Speaker: Something creepy was when the dog just randomly barked looking over through like the patio door, like the last door. Yeah. No, thank you. Yeah. He does like to look in like the people going by in the park and stuff, but it was maybe yesterday. Anyway, it was so cold that it was too, it was like, um,

Speaker: to cloudy or whatever frosted up. You couldn't even really see out there. I think he was literally seeing like reflections because it was so dark too. So you can basically, you look outside and you can basically just see reflections from what's happening in the living room. I don't know. He's a freak. Super freaky. I'm drinking some leftover white cloths from last night. Nice. I'm drinking a chai tea.

Speaker: sometimes at work, but it's been a long time since I had like a chai tea latte. I used to have those all the time at Starbucks until I became a London fog bitch. Yeah, this I think is a chai tea latte. Should be. Yeah, like, I mean, that's would be like my go to if we were going like Starbucks or like, you know, yeah, coffee places. All right, well,

Speaker: Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic. I'm Elana. I'm Kelsey. And I kind of have something for our intro. What is it? You know, I love doing just starting it out. I never know how to do it. Yeah.

Speaker: But whenever we end up chatting and stuff like this before the show, when we're not pitching about work slash doing housekeeping, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Pitching about the weather. I sometimes tell you about things that I've learned on the internet or through podcasts. So I have a little segment this week. I'm going to call it things I learned this week. Okay. I'm excited.

Speaker: Some of it I may have learned earlier, but I haven't told you yet. So things you told me you learned this week. Slash month. Yeah. What is time? Yeah. All right. Let's dive right in. This I.

Speaker: I believe I first heard of it on a podcast because that's what I do. I listen to podcasts all day. And then I'm like, is that true? Or maybe I read something. I don't know. But then I had to read further into it because I was like, I have not heard this. So, you know, the actor Willem Dafoe,

Speaker: Yes. Is it Willem? Because it's spelled Willem. Yeah. William, which is weird. I've always said William, so I'll probably say both. Forgive me. Apparently, he has an extremely large package. I did. Okay. I love Willem DeFoe, so. Now we know why. No.

Speaker: But perhaps we should just be calling him, Willem, the fuck is in your pants? So how? What was the context of learning this information I'd like to know? That's the part I'm struggling to remember. Okay. Just

Speaker: probably reading something about movies. You know me, I like movie trivia stuff. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I can't remember. I honestly can't. Somebody might have said a throwaway comment in a freaking podcast that was about something completely different. And I was like, what now? So I investigated for you. So you didn't have to Google that. Oh my God. There is more. Okay.

Speaker: Oh, I had to verify. What is this? Why is this a thing? Why would everybody know this or like act like they know it and I should know it.

Speaker: felt like I should probably already know it's like sometimes when I'll like go and tell my sister something. And then she's like, Oh, yeah, I know that. Or I'll tell you something on the podcast. And you're like, Yeah, I've heard that. No, but I do the same thing. So yeah, yeah, I always want to have something new. Um, so what I didn't know is they had to use a body double for him in the movie, Antichrist, which I haven't seen.

Speaker: But he wasn't even naked in this scene. I think he was like a therapist, but the director said it was so distracting that he didn't want that to be the focus of the scene. It was a very intense scene. So yeah, the director Lars von Trier said he's extremely well equipped. Yeah, they had to get a body double. And then it caused more trouble on the set of The Last Temptation of Christ, which I also have.

Speaker: Was he playing Jesus? He was, I haven't seen that one. I thought, what's his face? Was the, oh, Pat was like, Oh, isn't that, what's his face that plays Jesus? The guy from person of interest, John, could be, Kim could be easily could be evil. Yeah. He paid him in the passion of the Christ that guy in the Mel Gibson one. But no, so default Christ.

Speaker: very well hung Christ. He said, oh, that was terrible. I'm about to talk about how he was hanging on the cross. I'm sorry. That's all he could think of. That's why when I was like, does he play Jesus? Because I just pictured him wearing like the fabric and then I'm like, yes, it'd be very distracting. Right. Oh my God. I'm so sorry, Mom.

Speaker: So he said, quote, it took a lot to get me on the cross. Once I got up there, I could only be up there so long because you're in this isometric. And then it was from an interview where they could see him. So like he was demonstrating, twisting his body, which you can see, but nobody else can. So as I'm twisting, he said, I could only once I got up there, I could only be up there so long because you're in the isometric where you're like this crucified pose.

Speaker: Insert crucified pose. Yes, he's miming it. I'm also naked. They're shooting a very wide shot and I'm like this for a while. At that time his penis goes out from between his legs. I guess I guess it becomes untucked. So Martin Scorsese, the director called for quote somebody to quote fix that.

Speaker: So, and then Defoe's like, there are only all these Roman stuntmen, these real macho guys. And they're like, I'm not touching that thing. Finally, a very sweet guy from the costume department gets a little ladder and goes up there and tucks it in and we're good to go. That's all I have on that.

Speaker: Wonderful. And as soon as you started talking about it, just for the fact that I've been rewatching Sensei. And do you remember Lido? The Mexican guy? Yeah, yes. Yeah, he has huge package. And it's very distracting every time he's in his underwear. Because you're like, I shouldn't be focusing on that during this very

Speaker: plot -driven, dramatic scene. But it's super distracting. Yeah, they want you to. I love a good show that has occasional penis. If we get to see boobs on all the time, then yes. Give us some Game of Thrones, some Sensei, some Oz, some Full Frontal male. Only one of them went Full Frontal though, from Wolfgang. In that whole scene. Yeah, he's the only guy.

Speaker: It showed more than just a bot. More than just a bot. Was it after the show last time we were talking about how Sensei never spoke direct? I was like, Oh my God. Yeah. A bunch of those people that you said there was like 10 people from Sensei, the new matrix. And then I was like, Oh, it was by the same people. And I had like a brain explosion. Yeah. The Wachowskis. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker: I wanna watch it now. I'll probably watch it after I'm done rewatching Sensei. I can like fully appreciate them all in their cool sunglasses and long black coats. Oh yes. This has been brought to you by Sensei and sunglasses and long black coats. Yeah. Okay, so I do have two more quick things I learned.

Speaker: I'm way too excited about this. This could be a, this could be a segment. This could be something we do for our Patreon minisodes. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always finding weird things on the internet. Like for today, for example, I got sucked in a common thread about the worst tattoos tattoo artists have ever given or seen. I wrote down a few of my favourites. There's a lot of things coming out of holes and stuff.

Speaker: Yeah, they were talking about that on Sonic Radio the other morning and the girl said that she had in high school a guy that was teaching himself how to do tattoos and he was also in high school and he built a tattoo gun out of like a like Walkman motor and he tattooed it was supposed to be like a some type of like shark

Speaker: or whatever because they had gone on a school trip and I don't know she had encountered sharks. I don't know. It was in like a safe thing though. And so he was supposed to be tattooing the sharp and she said it looked like a baby guppy with like a penis for a fin. She said it was really bad.

Speaker: And then she said for her 20 year reunion for the school, she met up with the same guy who is now a professional, successful tattoo artist. And he did a tattoo cover up for her. And I was like, that's cool. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. On her. Yeah. He did it on her baby copy.

Speaker: Oh my God. Tell us if you guys want to hear about bad tattoos. Well, so we have a bit of a running theme here. So the second thing I learned has to do with NASA and their urination devices in space. Thank you. I feel like I heard not recently about this, but I feel like I know a tiny bit about it.

Speaker: It was probably made the rounds, yeah. Maybe people that have been on Reddit for a while in different places are like, we already know all this. But yeah, NASA had to relabel their, I'm gonna call them pea sleeves. It's a condom -like contraption for urinating in space because nobody chose the small size. So there was inevitably some slippage and spillage problems.

Speaker: Yeah, I did hear of that. It is, apparently it is, like I was reading this on Snopes, so it was saying that it is true that they did have problems because nobody was taking small, although it's probably been a little blown out of

Speaker: Proportion, shall we say? It was first mentioned in, quote, the spacesuit episode of Moon Machines, a 2008 science documentary mini series documenting the engineering challenges of the Apollo space program. Donald Rethke, who earned the nickname Dr. Flush for his work on zero gravity waste management.

Speaker: I like to shorten things in my notes. That's why I don't, because I confuse myself. I'm like, I won't even, I won't abbreviate nothing. Just writing out United States of America. Oh no, but I'll always put USA in capitals, so I know for sure it's not just us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker: Yeah, for the documentary, the size chart for the urinary condoms attached to the maximum absorbency garment spacesuit system had to be changed because astronauts refused to choose small. So, but the rumor that they had to change it to large, gigantic and humongous is unconfirmed. Same for extra large immense and unbelievable.

Speaker: It's like somebody going to get like extra large condoms they don't need. Yeah, I've seen enough videos of people shoving their entire arm up to their elbow in like fucking condoms and being like you this is a small okay your dick isn't the size of my forearm. Oh, I'm so glad you said into condoms though.

Speaker: Speaking of videos, that's the third thing, the video I was trying to send you. You can pull it up. Okay. I don't know if you see this third thing is the video. Chase? There's a short video. I agree. I can explain once it's... Does it have... Do I need audio? No. Okay. No, it's pretty short. So there is floating around. It's got a box.

Speaker: Yeah, I was reading an article on people about this after I saw the video about how it can get monotonous in space, especially if you've been up there for a while. So what's he doing with this box? He'll see. Sorry, I'm like, I have to just show it to her otherwise.

Speaker: What the fuck? It'll ruin it if I don't. No! What the hell? Oh, I'm showing her this video. I have a guy who brought a gorilla suit aboard a space station. Oh my god.

Speaker: It was a gift from a very thoughtful brother. I have this quote explaining from the People article. Mark Kelly, a retired NASA astronaut, decided to send his identical twin Scott, who would be aboard the International Space Station for almost a year in 2015 and 2016, a surprise to lighten things up.

Speaker: I was on the phone with my brother one day and he said, Hey, I'm sending you a gorilla suit. Scott Kelly now 57 tells people, and I said, why? And he goes, because there's never been a gorilla suit or a gorilla in space before.

Speaker: So he initially sent it to him on this Space X mission, but which was unmanned, no people on it, but that blew up. So the first suit they actually lost. And then he actually was successful and brought it up. Scott, the brother that was gifted it, he dressed up in the gorilla suit and then hid. And then the video that I showed you is when he posted to Twitter February 2016, it shows him coming out of a big white bag and chasing British astronaut Tim Peake.

Speaker: who then rushes to get away in zero gravity. Yeah, it's pretty entertaining. I mean, they're moving pretty fast. They're not used to seeing people move that fast in space. They're normally like floating and kind of, and they're motor and I have to say. It's like, what the fuck is that? Alien. Yeah, I would think like, oh my god.

Speaker: Yeah, I thought it was really funny. But yeah, the only other thing is mostly like, if you see the video online, sometimes they mistakenly credit Mark as the wearer of the gorilla costume, but he's the one that sent it, but they're twins. So how could you really know?

Speaker: You didn't know them. And apparently it's not so fun, but they did kind of have to stage the part where he's scaring the other guy. He's like, that's all staged. That's why he's floating around swimming in the air. We wanted it to look funny. It was the end of my year in space, said Scott, who retired soon after his return in 2016. So you need a little humor.

Speaker: But he did scare another guy. At one point he hid one guy's sleeping quarters in the gorilla suit. When he went to open the door, I busted out of there and afterwards I was a little worried that I could have given him a heart attack or something, says Scott, laughing. He also made a surprise visit to the Russian astronauts aboard the space station. I slowed it down to the Russian segment, he says. When they saw it, they were just laughing like you wouldn't believe.

Speaker: Then he recorded an educational video about what happens when you cry in space. I watched it. It was just a short little Twitter. Your tears just go up. He took this like bag of liquid because he was like, I'm not going to cry right now. And he just scored some like onto his eye and then he's like, it just stays there. It doesn't do anything. And then he wiped it off with a towel. That'd be so weird. I don't like it.

Speaker: Oh my God. So that was my little learning journey. Very fun. I don't know. It's definitely, it's a segment I could do easily because I'm always seeing weird shit that I want to share with you all. I feel like I see stuff and then immediately move on and it either it stays somewhere in the recesses of my mind, but I can't like have the forethought to like write any of it down.

Speaker: Yeah. Well, it used to be back in the olden times before the pandemic. So you could just go, Hey, I could like see you when we used to work in the building. And I'd tell you something that day, you didn't have to remember it for like 30 times a day. Yeah. Anyway.

Speaker: How was your day? Good. I didn't work that long today. And then I came home and just watched TV. Great. It's too cold out to do anything again. So yeah, that's all we can do to survive. Oh, yeah. And this one comes out. We're recording at the week of

Speaker: I just posted about February 1 on the witchy calendar, the wheel of the year, it's in bulk, or candle mass, it's sometimes called. It's in between the winter solstice and the spring solstice. Yeah. So that means spring is coming. Good. Can't wait. Oh, fucking God. I hate the winter.

Speaker: Yeah, it's been a rough one. We had the longest cold snap in like, I don't know, 40 years or something. We probably mentioned it. Yeah. Not surprised. It was like three weeks long of like almost like fricking minus 40. It was, I, last I heard it was closer to a month, but yeah, it was cold. Yeah. Brutal. I don't know. It felt like 57 years. So do you.

Speaker: Go. Cause now I just talked for a while. Sure. Put my headphones down for one second and they all tangle up. Oh my gosh. How was it possible? I asked for the headphones for Christmas that I have now. And they were just like, if I had bought them, they would have been the best investment, the wireless. Yeah. Oh.

Speaker: So if you go to the drive, I made a folder called Crimes of Passion. So these are pictures, it starts off, these are pictures of Evelyn Nesbitt. Yeah, so

Speaker: or Nesbitt, I guess her name is pronounced. Oh, yeah, I saw her picture. Yeah. Looking for a case. So this one's kind of bizarre and I kind of hate it. I don't want to say I love it, but I hate what happened. Yeah, the person that died deserved it and fuck him. So yeah, I was a little

Speaker: And tricky. Yeah, that's why once I learned more, I was like, I kind of have to talk about this because it just seems crazy. And it's just so, so old.

Speaker: Right. Sometimes you like read one little blurb about a case and you're like, okay, I need to know more. Yeah. So Evelyn Nesbitt was born Florence Evelyn Nesbitt and she was born on December 25th of either 1884 or 1885. Okay. And she was born in Pennsylvania in a small town that was near Pittsburgh.

Speaker: And Christmas baby. Yeah, but she actually doesn't know what year she was born. That's why the year is different. I wonder if she wasn't born in a hospital. We'll get to it. There's a reason for it. So she was an American artists model. So it was like somebody that posed for like sculptures, sketches and stuff.

Speaker: Yeah. And she was also a chorus girl. And so she formed on like chorus lines. Yeah. And then she was also an actress, but she was best known when she was young and living in New York as a famous fashion model. And she was photographed for newspapers, magazines, souvenir items and calendars, just as like the pinup

Speaker: kind of art genre was just starting and fashion photography that was being used for advertising was just starting to kind of expand. It didn't really exist before then.

Speaker: Oh, hell yeah. I mean, yeah, she's, she's sexy. It's one of the, like, you look at magazines now and you're like, Oh, that girl looks good in what she's wearing. If I buy that, will I look that good? Yeah. Right. They say like Evelyn is considered like Marilyn Monroe before Marilyn Monroe was born. Oh, definitely has. Yeah. That kind of like sultry look to her, her face. Yeah. One picture. She's kind of looking at you with those kinds of sleepy looking eyes. Like,

Speaker: Yeah, there's some sketchiness. We'll talk about what these pictures. Oh, yeah. So in childhood, she was mostly known as Florence Evelyn. And her birth records were actually destroyed in a fire. And Evelyn herself couldn't confirm what birth year she had either 85 or 84.

Speaker: And then her mother often also lied about her age to get around child labor laws so that her so that she could work. Oh, yeah, her mom didn't even probably know then. Yeah, her mom like wouldn't really tell her. Right. And Evelyn was the daughter of Winfield. I think it was Winnie field or Winnefeld, Scott Nesbitt and Evelyn Florence. That's

Speaker: the mom, which is really confusing. So she was born Florence Evelyn Nesbitt and then her mom is Evelyn Florence. That's a bit much. Yeah. So I call, well, in like, I guess as like a famous person, she was known as Evelyn. She like changes her name to Evelyn later on. So I'll be calling her Evelyn and her mother will be called Florence.

Speaker: Okay. We're confused. Mami Florence. Yeah. And she is part Scottish and part Irish. Yeah. So her father was an attorney and her mother was a homemaker. And Evelyn later said she was closer to her father and always tried to make him happy with her later accomplishments she made. And yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, her dad sounds pretty cool. He encouraged her to be curious and have lots of self -confidence. And she said that she loved to read. And because of this, he had a small library that he set up for her that included fairy tales, fantasy books, and even books that just boys typically read that were kind of like adventure books.

Speaker: nice yeah i love all those types of books yeah so think of like reading that in the 1800s would be kind of crazy yeah fantasy is a real good escape i couldn't always get into it when i was younger but i think that might have had to do with the type of fantasy books that were out there for young adults and stuff there wasn't as many no it's definitely better now yeah

Speaker: Um, so Evelyn later showed an interest in music and dance and her father also encouraged that and encouraged her to even take lessons. Oh, that's good. And Evelyn had a younger brother. I believe he's two years younger than her and his name is Howard. Okay. So just the two of them. Yeah. So in 1893, the Nesbit family moved to Pittsburgh.

Speaker: And Evelyn at this time was approximately 10 and her father suddenly died at the age of 40, which is very unfortunate. Wow. Yeah. He left as a family completely penniless. They had no money. They ended up losing their home and all of their possessions were actually auctioned off in order to pay any outstanding debts that were

Speaker: in the family name, I guess. Oh my God. And like, what about a funeral too? Dying ain't cheap. Yeah, I don't know. So Evelyn's mother Florence was actually unable to find work as a dressmaker, which is what she, or like seamstress, I guess, which is what she knew. And the family relied on money from their friends and other relatives to get by. And they were moving around a lot.

Speaker: And we're sharing basically single rooms in a series of different boarding houses. That's rough. Very hard life. So Florence often sent Howard, the youngest child, to live with relatives or family friends

Speaker: And Florence was eventually given money to rent a house and was told to use it as a boarding house, like I guess the extra rooms and that this could be a source of income for the family. Yeah. I mean, learn something new. Sometimes that's what you got to do. You got to pivot. I mean, you started out in one job, but shit doesn't always go your way. You don't always like it. Lots of people change careers. Yeah. Oh, that's cool though. Hopefully she doesn't fuck it up.

Speaker: Let's just say I don't like anybody other than Evelyn. Which is the daughter. Yeah, right. Okay. So Evelyn at this time is around 12. And she's sometimes helping her mother by collecting the rent from the borders.

Speaker: Um, so she goes around and, uh, Evelyn actually wrote like two memoirs about her life, which I want to read because they seem, I don't know, we'll get to it. Her life was crazy. Right. I'm a good memoir. Yeah. So the one she wrote in 1915, uh, she would have been about 30, what 35.

Speaker: I mean, no, she would have been about 30. Oh, yeah, enough happened. She wrote a memoir at 30. Wow. Yeah. So in her first memoir, she later recalls, quote, Mama was always worried about the rent. It was hard to think for her to actually ask for every week. And it never went smoothly.

Speaker: So the source I was reading it from said that I guess Florence like didn't have kind of the confrontational personality to handle people that didn't want to pay the rent. So she basically passed that on to her 12 year old daughter to deal with these people.

Speaker: Oh my god, she's got no fucking spine at all. No. Somebody gave her a place that she could use as a bed and breakfast, boarding house, whatever. And she's like, can't even collect the rent. That's like her one job. Well, not her one job, but. Yeah, it's an important job. And she's like collected, they collected rent like every week. So Evelyn had to go around and do this every week.

Speaker: Okay. And the family did end up eventually losing the boarding house because the mother Florence was unable to run it. Damn. Yeah. So much instability for a kid. It sucks even as a kid being aware that you're kind of poor, you know, it's like,

Speaker: It's you try and shield your kids from that, I think, as a parent. And so yeah, people don't want to like, it's not good for your development to have to also be worried about your roof over your head and shit. Yeah.

Speaker: In 1898, Florence moved to Philadelphia after being kind of recommended to move there by friends. And Evelyn and Howard were sent to live with a family that, I guess were family friends that like Florence knew. And I think this was in Algeny. I think that's how you pronounce it.

Speaker: And Florence was trying to get a job at this time as like a seamstress, but she wasn't able to. But she did get a job as a sales clerk at the fabric counter of Wanamaker's department store. I guess it was a fairly popular department store. I feel like it sounds familiar. Yeah, I

Speaker: I don't think I've heard of it before, but once she got this job, she sent for her children to join her. And Evelyn, who was about 14 at the time and Howard was 12, they were back living with her. And they too began working at the department store, working 12 hours days, six shifts a week. Really? Yeah. Weren't they going to school?

Speaker: I don't know. How could you and also work 12 hours a day? Six days a week, right? Yeah, I don't think they're going to school. So while working at the store is where Evelyn had a chance encounter with an artist who was struck by her beauty. And this artist actually asked Evelyn to pose for a portrait.

Speaker: And the mother Florence agreed after conferring like this woman, like was an artist and that she could be paid. Oh, it was a woman that makes it like sound so much better. Slightly better. Yeah. Or someone's like, Hey, baby. Yeah, I take pictures and models. And you're like, Ooh, like I used to work at a lounge that was inside of a hotel. And I remember like sometimes people would meet

Speaker: shady seeming guys there and say they were there for like a photo shoot and you're like, Oh, okay. At a hotel. Yeah. So Evelyn ended up sitting for this artist for about five hours and she earned $1.

Speaker: Uh, which I think when I looked it up, it said it'd be about $30 today. I mean, I love that conversion, modern day calculator. Yeah. Okay. That's not bad. Yeah. So for five hours, she made a dollar. Um, and she was later introduced to other artists by this woman, um, that were in the area and she became quite the favorite model of.

Speaker: illustrators, portrait painters, and even stained glass artisans. Which I would love to see, like stained glass with her, like I feel like that'd be really cool. I didn't run across any. Yeah, no kidding. It's like, can you imagine being rendered in stained glass? Just like a saint. Wow. I think this is another quote

Speaker: possibly from one of her memoirs. It says in Later in Life, Evelyn explained, quote, when I saw I could earn more money posing and posing as an artist model rather than working at Wanamaker's, I gave my mother no peace until she permitted me to pose for a livelihood.

Speaker: Right. She's probably like, this is a much better gig. Yeah. I don't have to like do much. Yeah. So in the year 1900, Florence moved to New York and ended up leaving Evelyn and Howard in the care of others. And she was again seeking work as a seamstress or clothing designer. But this is in New York. So she was unable to catch any attention.

Speaker: And months later, she relocated Evelyn and Howard to New York as well to join her. And the family shared a single back room in a building in Manhattan, and even gave the address. I didn't want to include it. What? Why would you leave the stable job she had? Right? Yeah. She's kind of, she likes to reach, I'd say for,

Speaker: Maybe her own bit of fame, glory, money, I don't know. Right. Bit of a dreamer to put it nicely. Yeah.

Speaker: So after the move to New York, Evelyn used letters of introduction that were written by the artists that she'd worked with in Philadelphia to kind of get in in with the artists in New York and kind of start building a rapport with them, I guess. Oh yes, you've got to get your portfolio together. Yeah, before the days of like reviews or like you can

Speaker: Do anything, you gotta have letters of recommendation. That's true, it's the networking of the day. Yeah, of the 1900s. Yeah, I mean, they're getting it. Yeah, starting to. Florence was then forced to take on managing Evelyn's growing career. And Florence later said she refused to let Evelyn pose nude. However, there are two works in 1901 that show Evelyn partially nude

Speaker: which at what in 1901 she would have been 16. So not great. Yeah. That was a lie. Yeah. I wonder if Evelyn

Speaker: Evelyn wanted to do it. I don't know. That's who that's who should give the consent. But yeah, it is still a little bit youngish. I believe the like sultry picture you said that first one for giving like the bedroom eyes. I believe that's one of the ones when she's 16. And they're considering a little off the shoulder dress partially nude. In the 1900s.

Speaker: Yeah, I was gonna say it looks like an off the shoulder dress now, but it could be like a freaking nightgown or something that I think it's meant to be. You can flip through there until you there's just like a bunch of like pictures. There's also a book that's being written about Evelyn Nesbitt that's calling her America's Eve, which I think is really nice because I really like the picture of her. She has like a little flower crown.

Speaker: Oh, okay. I'll see that one. I'm gonna look. I think it's like the third. I have it labeled 3 .5. Yeah, you can stop at the picture four, I think, which is like a side by side.

Speaker: Yeah, so Evelyn's career continued to grow and soon she was one of the most into band artists, artists, models, that's really hard to say, in New York. And this is really cool. She was featured on the cover of many magazines, including Vanity Fair and Cosmopolitan.

Speaker: Oh, I couldn't, I couldn't find the cover of Cosmopolitan, but I did find the one of Vanity Fair. Um, I didn't save the picture. She's basically just wearing a dress and it kind of looks like she's on the netting of a ship. She's like holding it. I don't know.

Speaker: I can't believe it's that old, those magazines, right? It's like, maybe that explains some of the very, very outdated advice you would get in, in Cosmo, where I would like, I'd read it because there'd be funny sections, like the confessions, like people - Yes, I loved those. Yeah, I loved them too.

Speaker: but then like any other time they tried to give you like an educational article it'd be like how to excite your man and just like it'd just be all the dumbest stuff that you're like what yeah yeah cringe but vanity fair that's really well respected

Speaker: Yeah. She also appeared in fashion advertising for many products. There's so many of them, it's insane. She appeared as like, I think kind of a silhouette on sheet music.

Speaker: Um, her image appeared on beer trays, tobacco cards. She was on pocket mirrors and postcards, which I believe is the picture of like the blue. There's like a series of blue pictures. Two of them, I believe those are postcards as well as, um, and I couldn't find it, but she appeared as pictures for a Coca -Cola calendar. Oh.

Speaker: I mean, she had all of the merch. Yeah. I'm not seeing whole folders. Maybe I'm just dumb. It's like I see four. Oh, oh, you know what?

Speaker: I didn't open up the actual folder. Cause I'm a dummy. It was just showing me the top ones. Sorry. I'm so stupid. There we go. That's why it wasn't making sense. Okay. Holy shit. Yeah. There's a lot. Okay. There's a flower crown one. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Blueish. Yeah. There's ones of her, like there's two side by side. They're very believed like tinted pictures. I believe those are supposed to be postcards with her.

Speaker: Wow. It's like, did they not do this before? It's like the first brand. She's working on her brand before it was called a brand. So if you go back just quickly to the fourth picture, it should be her kind of like profile. She's got big hair and then there's a sketch beside her.

Speaker: Yeah, it's kind of like Elaine hair, like anyone that watches Seinfeld knows how she had the first couple of seasons had the big poof at the front. And then, yeah, it's like tied back. So this was done for Charles Dane Gibson, who was one of the most renowned artists of the era. And he used Evelyn as a model for his best known, quote, Gibson girl works.

Speaker: And this sketch that appears to her side entitled was entitled woman the eternal question and the portrait features Evelyn in profile with her hair styled into the shape of a question mark.

Speaker: Oh, that's what you're saying. I see how they have a drawing on the side with just the hair so you can see better how it might. And it was titled Woman, the Eternal Question. It does kind of resemble a question mark, yeah. I can see it. That's cute.

Speaker: Yeah, so Evelyn began to prefer the fashion photography, as you said, to be more enjoyable than the shoots because, or than, or more enjoyable as the shoots were much shorter. And she was paid a lot more. She was making, when I looked it up, I think I converted it. She was making about $300 a day today for a full day of a shoot or like half that for a half day.

Speaker: Wow. And so I don't know if somebody makes 300 bucks a day today, that's still great. Yeah, even if it's more than a lot of people make. This is true. Yeah, it's still one of those jobs where you do have to make sure you have the bookings and stuff. Otherwise, like maybe not making it every single day if you don't have a job that day. But yeah, it's like, wow.

Speaker: Shit son. Yeah, she was really in demand. So all of her money was put into the family and their cost of living in New York, which was very high at the time.

Speaker: her mom decided that's where they should live. Great. Evelyn began to grow bored of the photo sessions and she said she didn't like holding the poses for such a long time and didn't like and started to not like the fashion photography where she had to like stand still in all these like awkward poses that they wanted all the time.

Speaker: I see. Yeah, they're always doing weird things in fashion photos. Yeah, just like, stand like this. Like, yeah. There always used to be a big fashion thing at the end of the glamour magazine. And I'd be like, ooh, look, we're leaning up against a car. We're in an elevator. We're standing with our legs spread wide, looking at you. Yeah. So at this time, because of her popularity in New York,

Speaker: and her beauty and everything. She began to receive acting and theater offers.

Speaker: Um, that's awesome. Yeah. I mean, at least in New York, she's getting more exposure. It's a place like LA. It's a place where like actors and celebrities live. Yeah. So Evelyn talked her mother into letting her like do it, um, because it would help her contribute more money to their finances. And Evelyn was set to become a member of a show chorus line. Um, so she was going to be with like a whole group of girls, like kind of.

Speaker: doing the canned chorus line, basically, yeah. And Florence agreed, her mother, this is where she starts to kind of be garbage, in my opinion. A bit of a momager, like she's like a Kardashian mom. Yeah, so Florence, I guess, only agreed to this and letting Evelyn get on the stage on the basis that some of the girls that were in the show that Evelyn was going to be in had been able to marry millionaires.

Speaker: That was literally her reasoning. So. Millionaires. Yeah, we'll get to it. Let's just say they were millionaires in the 1900s and we're probably billionaires today. And yeah.

Speaker: So while working in this chorus line, Evelyn changed her theatrical name to Evelyn Nesbitt, like officially. Before that, I think she was mainly referred to as Florence, but now she's being called Evelyn Nesbitt.

Speaker: Okay. And Evelyn was seen as the latest sensation. And as soon as she was done with this chorus line, she was offered another contract that moved her out of the chorus line and into the spotlight center stage as a gypsy girl that was named Vashti. I guess it's like quite a famous portrayal she did. I don't know.

Speaker: Oh um and she was written yeah she was written about in theatrical articles as well as gossip columns and they always mainly mentioned her appearance and stage presence which I think stage presence would be good but the article I read that from had it as a very demeaning thing that they would talk about her stage presence um

Speaker: But they also mentioned that these articles rarely talked about any of her acting skills. It was always about her beauty. Which I say she has like kind of, I don't know, she's not like super beautiful, but she's got like kind of just like a simple like everyday

Speaker: I mean it might be different now that people are seeing her on film and stuff. There's some actors and stuff that I feel like they're just so magnetic. You kind of want to look at them and then you don't almost notice if they're not as good of an actor.

Speaker: Yeah, it was like, Oh, interesting. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like yeah, I don't she looks like an old timey actress. But like, yeah, but she's not like, they there's one and you can see it in one of the pictures, her teeth are like super messed up.

Speaker: Oh yeah, they haven't shown her teeth really. No it's in. Oh the bluey ones you can kind of see them a bit. The bluey ones you can see it on the one picture and when you do Google her it kind of like you can put in like Evelyn Nesbitt and then the letter T and it'll just come up teeth.

Speaker: Yeah. It was the early 1900s. So Evelyn began attracting the attentions of many men at her tender age of 16, sadly. Yeah, that's where this story is super shit, including a very, very wealthy man named Stanford White.

Speaker: who was nearly three times her age. That's an age difference that I do take a little bit of umbrage with. I'm okay with a few years, depending on people's maturity, because I think that that could, you know, but then it's like, and especially she's not even an adult yet. It's like,

Speaker: Yeah. Probably agreed. So White was introduced to her by another cast member that was in, I think the, either in the production or one of the chorus lines, I'm not sure. And White was married already and had a son. Yeah. He had a son and Evelyn described, I love this, him as his quote, imposing size as appalling and that he seemed terribly old.

Speaker: Because when you're 16, people in our 30s seem fucking terribly old. Oh, this dude's 48. Right, exactly. So she's like, he's about to die in her mind. So White was 48 years old. He was a very well -known architect.

Speaker: And I couldn't tell if he directly worked on or if like the quote unquote firm he worked for were responsible for the projects that built Madison Square Garden, Tiffany's, the Washington Square Arch, and the Cornelius Vanderbilt's mansion.

Speaker: I knew most of those. Okay, I'm like, I knew Madison Square Garden. And I know the name Tiffany's. A bunch of other rich sounding things. Vanderbilt. Yeah, Vanderbilt, like, and Cornelius. Like, what kind of name is Cornelius? Anyway, so this is where it gets worse. Are you ready?

Speaker: I guess so. Yeah, the story is just going to progressively get worse and worse. I'm sorry. And this is why we're doing true crime. Yeah. And somebody has to get murdered. Yes, it's always the one who lights up a room. I think I said it to you before we started recording that mine isn't really a crime of passion. Yeah. And that I can, I believe it's a crime of severe obsession.

Speaker: Just absolute obsession. That fits. I wouldn't say passion as in like being in love with somebody intensely. No, it was obsession and it was gross. No, and sometimes when you hear crimes of passion, you're just thinking of things that happen when someone's in like a blind rage or like an OJ Simpson type of situation.

Speaker: they were already divorced. Anyway, I'm not gonna go into that. But yeah, it's like a jealous rage. But like, yeah, then, you know, a lot of the stuff you look up and the lists and stuff, it's like crimes of passion. It's usually like, yeah, somebody kind of snapped for some reason or another, basically. Yeah. So we'll get to it.

Speaker: Yeah, this one's interesting. So White invited 16, yeah, let me preface this, 48 -year -old married with a child, White invited 16 -year -old Evelyn to his multi -floor apartment in New York. And she said she was overwhelmed by the luxuriousness of this apartment and like all the furnishings because he's a millionaire. And - Just went? Okay. Yeah.

Speaker: And yeah, she went and the two were there with another male guest that White knew that was named Reginald. Reginald Ronald. Reginald is also a rich person name. Nobody else names their kid Reginald.

Speaker: I read Reggie from fucking Archie comics was rich. Reginald and Cornelius. Rich people names. So God always named that anymore. We would have just lost two listeners.

Speaker: Um, yeah, so Evelyn, uh, Stanford white and Reginald are having lunch and nothing happens. I'll preface that nothing happens this time. So white had actually won over the Nesbit family, like kind of as a whole. So he actually with his millions of dollars sponsored them to be able to live in a better apartment, which he completely furnished.

Speaker: This is what she was looking for. Yeah. He paid for Howard to attend military school and persuaded Florence to take a trip to visit her friends in Pittsburgh and assured her that, of course, he would be willing to watch over Evelyn while she was gone because he grows.

Speaker: I mean, by persuaded, you mean orchestrated all of this. So yeah. Wow. So don't care. Nope. While Florence was staying. Oh, that's a typo. Well, Evelyn stayed with white. They had dinner and champagne in his apartment. I was like, this wasn't her mom.

Speaker: I don't know, you can look up pictures of these guys if you go a bit further past what you can look at picture. You could be looking at picture eight right now and just imagine this dude being another 10 years older than this picture because I couldn't find a more up to date one.

Speaker: He got a crazy mustache. You can't even sleep. It looks like it's going to take over his chin. Like it's that crazy. There is the rest of your face. Yeah. Imagine him about 10 years older than this right now. Um,

Speaker: Oh, yeah. So, uh, yeah, Evelyn is staying with him and they were having dinner and champagne at his apartment. And they went into something called or something he called the mirror room. Oh, room. Yeah.

Speaker: Okay. I got a creepy room called the mirror room. Is this ceiling? Yeah. I think it was completely mirrors, but I couldn't find out any information about the furnishing. Other than the fact that it only contained a green velvet sofa.

Speaker: So thanks for that. And yeah, okay. So after drinking more, Evelyn was asked to change into a yellow satin kimono at his request. And this is the last thing she remembers before waking up naked in bed with white laying beside her on like blood stain sheets.

Speaker: So yeah, although Evelyn understood that she had been raved or assaulted, she actually, I didn't like the wording in the article because it said she allowed White to continue to see her. And I feel like she didn't really feel like she had another choice because her family's poor.

Speaker: Yeah. So they often feel a lot of guilt for something that's not your fault when that happens and stuff. And she's 16 and stuff. So they saw each other over the course of the next year. And yeah. My face. Yeah.

Speaker: And so she actually later found out I'll just put, I'd put this in here. She later found out that he had been quote cheating on her and because they had had a semi relationship at least enough that like people in society knew that they were together.

Speaker: Um, it wasn't a secret or anything like that. So even though she's 16, he's 48 and married. Um, so she found out later, like, I don't know when later, but she found out later on that he had been cheating on her with a whole bunch of different young women. I don't know what other ages, um, whose names were written in a little black book because he's a fucking cliche.

Speaker: Yeah, it's just a big piece of shit. Yeah. So I don't know when they really broke it off, but Evelyn did after this have an unsuccessful relationship in 1902 when she was around 17 with a 21 year old, like man named John Barrymore, who she had met at a party that White had thrown

Speaker: at his apartment. And the two were very happy. It said like they were pretty happy. Like it was probably the best relationship that Evelyn ever had. And this is all before Florence and White orchestrated the pair to break up because they were displeased with relationship mainly because

Speaker: The dude didn't have a lot of money and Florence, her mom didn't like that. And White is just a gross person. And so they orchestrated. Right. So they kind of orchestrated this breakup after the fact that they were in the room.

Speaker: and witnessed Evelyn turning down Barry Moore's proposal that had been made in their presence. So he had basically proposed they get married and Evelyn had said no because White and Florence, her mom were in the room. Oh my God, what the fuck? Yeah. So it's kind of said that White basically was like, I'll sponsor Evelyn to go to boarding school in another city. Okay, cool. And did it. So she'd be gone. Yeah.

Speaker: Wow, because now she needs school. Yeah, now she needs school. Right. So Evelyn was involved with a few other men. Nothing really happens. However, White is basically a continuous presence in her life. He's relentless and gross. Evelyn eventually met a gentleman named Harry Kendall Faugh.

Speaker: Oh, okay. Gross. Um, that's a name. This is a competition. And I'd like to know at the end, who you feel is grosser, thaw or white. So yeah. So, cause it gets worse. Thaw was the air to a, at the time in the 19 hundreds of $40 million fortune. Okay. You bridge.

Speaker: I wonder if she knew that about them. Oh, she found out. So she was described, or he, not she, Thaw was described as reckless, self -indulgent, and mentally unstable. He was also quite, had quite the abusive streak.

Speaker: So he also was super obsessive about things. I feel like definitely had problems with addiction, which we'll get to like later on. Thaw had actually attended 40 performances Evelyn had put on of one of her theater productions called The Wild Rose. So he had attended 40 of these showings in about a year.

Speaker: just to see her. And this is before yeah, this is before he had even ever met her in person. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I love a lot of celebrities. I've never met in person. Yeah, but I guess if you don't have TV and can't just watch something, you'd pay to go see 40 performances in a year.

Speaker: Yeah, but I'm feeling he's going to take it a little too far. He's going to take it a lot too far. So Thaw actually is the worst name ever. Thaw had a resentment of white based on his previous relationship with Evelyn. He was pretty jealous of that. And he believed that white was a womanizer who preyed on young women, which I mean is correct.

Speaker: Yeah. I think I tried, I tried looking it up. I don't know if I actually have anything. Oh, I do. Yeah, Thaw is 34 years old. So slightly more age appropriate. Okay. Yeah. And she's 16 still or? She is...

Speaker: Yes, like 18. Yeah, I'm more okay with that. Yeah, because yeah. So, Thaw, because they had never met, he actually arranged to meet Evelyn for the first time. And he introduced himself as a Mr. Monroe. And he continued to call himself that as he started to give her gifts and money.

Speaker: So basically what White was doing was giving her a bunch of money all the time. And when he finally tried to do this like huge big reveal that his name was actually like Thaw and he was super wealthy, it's from noted that he was pretty upset that Evelyn had very little reaction because she was used to the attention of very wealthy men. Oh, damn. She was expecting some sort of

Speaker: Yeah. Oh, you're who. Yeah, she really didn't know and was like, cool, like, so well at this boarding school that she had been sponsored to go for go to in early 1903 Evelyn underwent surgery.

Speaker: And the official diagnosis was acute appendicitis, but some sources say that it was actually an abortion and that she had been pregnant with her former flame, John Barry Moore's child, the one that she had turned down the proposal for. But she liked him, I thought. Yeah. If that was the case, it's like, why wouldn't she? Because they're not together anymore, and it's the 1900s.

Speaker: Yeah, how about she maybe get away from these fucking rich assholes. I know. So after this surgery, it said that Thaw like visited her and made sure she got the best care possible and like paid a bunch of doctors to treat her. And then he became super, super protective of Evelyn and wanted her to receive the best medical care. And after she had recovered just a tiny bit, basically,

Speaker: Um, because she's still recovering from surgery. He requested that her and her mother travel with him through Europe. Well, she seems in her best interest.

Speaker: Yeah. So it's said that Thaw created like a very hectic itinerary that was just like literally insane. And tensions grew between him, Florence and Evelyn. And Florence actually kind of got fed up with it and decided to return home early to the USA while Evelyn and Thaw traveled to Paris alone.

Speaker: Okay, so well in Paris, Thaw pressured Evelyn to agree to marry him. And she refused because she knew Thaw was obsessed with female chastity and being a virgin basically. And yeah, it's really weird. I don't know why he has such a hang up on this, but it's a severe hang up. So she knew that she couldn't accept his marriage proposal without telling him that White had

Speaker: raped her. And the pair continued to travel throughout Europe and Thaw continued to interrogate her basically about why she wouldn't marry him. And finally, Evelyn told him what White had done. Okay. And Thaw has the weirdest reaction possible. He decides to take Evelyn to a bunch of sites in Europe that are devoted to virgin martyrdom.

Speaker: Okay, sir. That was inappropriate to the occasion. And it's about to get worse. I'm just gonna plow through this as fast as I can. He then took Evelyn to a castle where he paid the servants to stay on one end. And on the other end, he locked Evelyn in a room and beat her with a whip and sexually assaulted her constantly over the course of a two week period. Yeah, he's not fucked up at all. Yeah.

Speaker: Uh, afterward he apologized and it's multiple sources said he appeared upbeat and happy and stated that he still wanted to marry her. Uh, issues go self -flagellate yourself. Why don't you don't take it on her.

Speaker: Yeah. When they returned home, Evelyn told friends what had happened. Like she told basically everybody what Tha had done to her. And they all shared stories about Tha, his past behavior, that he was absolutely crazy, that he was very, had like very addictive personality, and that he took morphine.

Speaker: At this point, Evelyn is now completely estranged from her mother who, and she's like 18, keep in mind. So she's estranged from her mother who had actually gotten remarried.

Speaker: And she knew that she had no other way to get herself out of like the poverty. Basically, and she believed that her is because of her assaults now of two different people that no other respectable man would marry her and that she resented white for not warning her about thoughts behavior I mean.

Speaker: They're like two and the same. They're basically the same person, but one did it more than once, basically. And pretends that he's holier than thou while he does it. Yeah. So on April 4th, 1905, the approximately 20 -year -old Evelyn, who after four years of holding him off, married 34 -year -old Harry Kendall Thaw, after he promised that after they would get married, he would live as a monk.

Speaker: And hey, and stop beating her. Right. So weird. Um, so Florence, her mother came out of the woodwork basically and gave her consent, gave her consent for them to be married, but at, and her offering her consent.

Speaker: said that she requested Evelyn give up her theater acting and modeling and refrain from ever talking. Give up her modeling and acting and refrain from ever talking about her past life. Jesus Christ. Yeah, this is why I'm like this girl's like two memoirs because like shit, it's there's still more. This is never going to have any autonomy in her own life.

Speaker: She will. So Evelyn moved in with Thaw and his family in Pittsburgh, where she was trapped in their shallow view of the world that basically only focused on appearances.

Speaker: and Thaw became obsessed with exposing White for his assault on Evelyn. Like he wanted the public to know. I mean, you did it too. Like, fuck you just as much. Yeah, I was getting confused as to which one was mad. And he also blamed White for his role in, that was preventing Thaw from becoming one of quote, New York's like social elite.

Speaker: I guess the gray one source I kind of read said that like thought multiple trends tried to throw parties and invite like a bunch of people and then white would like find out about the party and invite all those people to his place the same night and like sabotage thoughts parties so he's mad and now he assaulted his wife that you he also assaulted um

Speaker: It's all very weird. It's all very stupid. So white, it's funny because one source I read said that white actually thought very little of thaw and viewed him as a poser and a clown. So I just wanted to include that. He's like, he's my personal nemesis. And the other guy's like, what, who? He's a clown. And he said poser? Yeah, he literally said a poser.

Speaker: Wow, that's an old fashioned. I didn't realize that was such an old term. Yeah, right. I didn't either. So on June 25, 1906, because we're still talking about 180 years ago, not 180, 180, almost 120 years ago. What is time? Yeah. Yeah. So Thoth and Evelyn traveled to New York and attended the premiere of

Speaker: Mamzell Champagne, some play that was on the rooftop theater at Madison Square Garden. Name drop in. Yeah, I didn't know they had a rooftop theater.

Speaker: I love that MST. So despite the heat outside, Thaw was wearing a long black overcoat and refused to remove it, as one does. One of the ones being weird. At 11 o 'clock PM, as the show came to an end, White arrived at his reserve table nearby, and Thaw spotted his arrival and approached him after several failed attempts.

Speaker: Are you ready for the twist? During the finale of I could live, I could love a million girls. I could love a million girls. And I would be tired. Yeah. Thaw pulled the pistol out of his overcoat and shot white three times in the head and back from two feet away, killing him instantly.

Speaker: So, rapey number two. Killed rapey number one. Okay, okay. But he got the girl. Why does he care?

Speaker: because it's weird. Can we kill each other? That's fine. Right. I will the world will be better off. So thought turned and addressed the crowd. But witnesses reports Barry as to what he said when he addressed them. Some reports said quote, I did it because he ruined my wife. He had it coming to him. He took advantage of the girl, and then abandoned her. You'll never go out with that woman again. And

Speaker: Nope. And in, in a book called the murder of Stanford white released in 2011 writer Gerald Langford quoted thought, alternatively as saying you ruined my life or you ruined my wife, just because they rhyme. Yeah, I could see. Yeah, people get it mixed up. Yeah. And

Speaker: I'll just say this is the only murder that happens in my story. That's on like, surprise twist, she didn't die. Oh my god. Right? That's on like, I kind of want to talk about this because I feel like the woman always gets murdered when you talk about crimes of passion, but at first. I'm looking good for her. She hasn't had easy.

Speaker: When I picked the story, I didn't know Tha also assaulted her. So it was like, oh, sweet. Her new husband like totally murdered the dude. It was vengeance. He totally deserved it. And then as I was like researching it, reading more notes, I was like, shit, he was even worse than the first guy. Oh, fuck. Oh, fucking date rape before it was a word. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, I'm not going to cheer for him taking vengeance out because somebody should have also taken him out in my opinion.

Speaker: So the crowd initially thought it was a joke and soon realized that White was actually dead and thought basically was immediately taken into police custody and Evelyn was able to leave the theater. Remember she's like 20 right now. She was able to leave the theater in the chaos and spend a couple days in an apartment of another chorus girl.

Speaker: She let her stay there. And Evelyn said of this time, quote, a complete numbness of mind and body took possession of me. I moved like a person in a trance for hours afterward. I mean, that's a lot. Yeah, you're widowed.

Speaker: Yeah. So following the murder, the press was sensationalizing the killing. This is like, just blows my mind. One week after the shooting, a film called Rooftop Murder was released for public viewing at the Nickelodeon theaters after being rushed through production by Thomas Edison. Oh God. What the fuck? Well,

Speaker: I'm like, you got to love him, Thomas Edison. So okay, that happened. Yeah, that is not too soon at all. No, one week later, rooftop murder. And so I was, oh, I shouldn't, you probably won't even laugh either. I was making meatloaf jokes after he heard he passed. Yeah.

Speaker: But then I was telling people that day and I'm like, he expired. Nobody left.

Speaker: I was like, too soon. Okay, I'm sorry. I liked me though. No disrespect. Rip. Yeah, you can basically click through probably the rest of the pictures. There's pictures of Thaw and there are pictures of them at the court. Pictures of newspaper headlines saying, Harry Thaw kills Stanford white and jealous rage over actress wife. And then it's got little sketches of him shooting him in the face.

Speaker: Oh dear. I mean, it's salacious. It was so salacious and people were so enthralled by what happened that women other than family and official news reporters were actually banned from the courtroom for what was being dubbed the trial of the century. It was making news across America. People were going crazy.

Speaker: And that's like when they named the World War I the war to end all wars. It was maybe a little presumptuous. The first trial of the century, but this one's quite intense. Evelyn was actually made out basically to be at fault for everything that happened. Reporters were saying that she had sold herself to White and then later sold herself to Thaw.

Speaker: Oh, and that's how that works. And this is a quote, I'm not sure who it's from. I think probably the newspaper articles saying, quote, her baby beauty provided her undoing. She toddled as innocently into the arms of Satan as an infant into the outstretched arms of paternal love. I don't even know what that means.

Speaker: I'm gonna try and figure it out when I listen back for editing. Another quote said, her mother knew better and she knew she was sacrificing her child's soul for money.

Speaker: agree 100 % and what's interesting is some churches even lobbied to restrict the media coverage to keep the full disgusting details out of the printed public media um because they were like being details were being printed in newspapers right that is pretty gross yeah

Speaker: So in court, Thaw's defense team pleaded temporary insanity, which was referred at the time to brainstorm. They didn't call it temporary insanity, it was called brainstorm. Yeah, they've reappropriated that term since. Thaw's mother, who was fearful of Thaw's past being brought into the spotlight, of him being addicted to drugs, past abuse,

Speaker: People calling them crazy. And she actually hired a team of doctors at the time to a cost of half a million dollars at the time.

Speaker: So she hired this team of doctors to report that Thaw's rent, or that this was a random act of violence that Thaw had done in shooting light. And Evelyn later said, quote, the Thaws will put the biggest lunacy experts that money can buy on the stand. Harry or Thaw was a madman, but they will prove it nicely.

Speaker: as long as they do it nicely. Yeah. And it's rumored that the Thaw family even offered Evelyn between 25 ,000 and a million dollars at the time to testify in favor of Shaw, and that if the outcome of the trial was negative, or that he was sentenced, she would get nothing. The even backstabbing of the

Speaker: Like I said, I hate everybody in this story except for Evelyn. Evelyn's mother Florence was working with the Faw's lawyers. And Howard, who's Evelyn's younger brother, actually blamed Evelyn for White's death. And he had grown to see White as a father figure, so he was really mad.

Speaker: Oh my god. Yeah, her family sucks. Backing it on to her like she doesn't probably feel shitting up already. So two trials were held one year apart as the first jury ended up being deadlocked.

Speaker: And the second trial, I believe, I couldn't confirm. It might have been the first one, but it was actually the first time in American history where a jury was sequestered, which is crazy.

Speaker: and this is partly because the details of White's assault on Evelyn was made public knowledge and it was like leaking through all the newspapers and she's being forced in detail to explain the events of both Thaw's and White's assaults on her to the courtroom as well as all the reporters that were there so they were basically just spreading it all to the press everything she said

Speaker: Okay. And that's why churches were kind of lobbying to keep the details out of the press because they were printing everything she said. Poor girl. Yeah.

Speaker: So the second trial was held in 1908 and Thaw was found not guilty on the ground of insanity. But thankfully he was sentenced to be involuntarily committed to the Mattewan State Hospital for the Criminally Insane that was in Beacon, New York. And due to his family's wealth, he was afforded luxuries inside that were not normally provided.

Speaker: And thought began his mission of having himself declared legally sane. And that was an effort that took about seven years. And it got you off. Yeah. The prolonged legal procedures compelled him to actually escape.

Speaker: from this hospital. And he managed to take a flight to Canada in 1913, where he was briefly free. And then he was caught and extradited back to the US. But stupidly, in 1915, he was released from custody after being judged to be sane. So

Speaker: I don't think there was a whole lot of sane people in that case. No. Evelyn visited Thaw while he was committed. This I don't really like. It makes me sad. So she visited after he was committed. So keep in mind the second trial happened in 1908. Well, she gave birth to a son that she says was Thaw's in 1910. And she named him Russell Thaw.

Speaker: and was adamant that he was conceived during a conjugal visit with Thaw while he was in custody. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Thaw denied paternity his entire life. He said this child was never his. He refused to acknowledge it. But Evelyn and her son Russell did tour Europe.

Speaker: and he was actually born or helped being born. I don't know when she was part of a dance troupe. So he kind of joined the dance troupe as a baby. I don't know. Okay. She like gave birth right there. Later Evelyn starred in multiple silent films and her son Russell even started along with her in at least six different films.

Speaker: So if you flip through some of the pictures, there's one, there's a picture of her and Russell. Yeah, cute with the little kind of hair cut. Yeah. And then there's one of a movie poster with them that's called the movie is called redemption.

Speaker: What? They called him Russell Thaw. Yeah. Yeah. And at least six films. She also reconciled with her mother in 1911 and often had her look after Russell while she was away. I don't know if that was during filming movies or

Speaker: What? And it's unconfirmed if she ever did receive any of the money from the Thaws. However, her grandson, who's named Russell thought jr. So this is the son of her son Russell. And says that there's a family like legend that she did receive about $25 ,000 at the time. And she actually donated it to

Speaker: some charity or something that the Thaws hated kind of despite them. Oh my God. Yeah. So if it's true, go Evelyn. Yeah, that's badass. So in 1915, she divorced Thaw and basically the next year married her dance partner, Jack Clifford. And they started together in a movie, I believe. And after starting a successful, or they started a successful stage act together in 1913,

Speaker: However, Clifford left her in 1918 due to her past and the notoriety she had. He didn't like all the spotlight. And they had lengthy legal baddies battles over their divorce before it was finalized in 1933. So did they have any kids? No. I wonder what the fuck they were fighting over then.

Speaker: I don't know. In the 1920s, Evelyn staged a cabaret dance comeback, and she started with Chicago's Moulin Rouge, as well as others, which is kind of cool. And in the 1930s, she added a burlesque aspect to her shows that she was doing. Yeah, this is basically everything about her life, because I couldn't stop.

Speaker: I'm gonna tell you up until she dies, everything that happened though, basically. Evelyn struggled with financial problems, alcoholism, and a morphine addiction. And sadly in 1926, she kind of went on a bender after completing a six week long engagement. I believe it was like a production, like stage production. And she actually attempted suicide, sadly, by swallowing a bunch of disinfectant.

Speaker: And the doctor said that she probably would have died if her stomach hadn't also been full of gin. So alcoholism saved her life, question mark. Unfortunately - Gin, it's not easy stuff to swallow. No. Kind of tastes like disinfectant. And however, like this all basically made like front page news across the country again.

Speaker: In January of 1917, Thaw was arrested because he sucks ass. He was arrested and charged with kidnapping, beating, and sexual assault of a 19 year old, I believe, boy named Frederick Gump.

Speaker: And he lived in sorry, not Forrest Gump, Frederick Gump. He is from Kansas City, Missouri. And at his trial, the jury deemed thought to be insane. And the judge ordered him to be confined to Kirkbride Asylum in Philadelphia. But he was released sometime later. I tried to find the year, I couldn't.

Speaker: Oh my God. Seriously, it's like, oh, this one will try. Oh wait, he's insane again. Guess we were wrong about that hole. He's sane now. Great. Saki enough, Tha made his way back to Evelyn. He claims he had been paying her $10 a day through their attorneys as a token of, quote, pleasant memories of the past when we were happy.

Speaker: Who? Thaw. He says he was paying her $10 a day. So he and Evelyn actually reconnected, sadly. In 1926, they were photographed together. And in 1927, he attended an opening that she held when she was opening like a little cafe that was only open briefly. It was very unsuccessful.

Speaker: Oh, in 1929, rumors circulated that they intended to remarry. And by 1939, she was sharing. Oh, this is, I should have put this in a different paragraph because this just totally goes off from what I was just talking about. This is basically bullet points. By 1939, she was sharing the bill with strippers.

Speaker: Her stage productions involved strippers and Evelyn, who was now in her 50s, stated, quote, I wish I were a strip teaser. I wouldn't have to bother with so many clothes.

Speaker: She's like, why couldn't I have just done this from the beginning? Like, I wouldn't have to go through all this crap. So Thaw never expressed regret for the murder of Stanford White. And 20 years after the event, he reportedly claimed, quote, under the same circumstances, I'd kill him tomorrow. Which I mean, I agree, but somebody should also kill you.

Speaker: How are you any better? You did it to another person also. Yeah, so when Thaw passed away in 1947, it's reported he left Evelyn about $10 ,000 from his estate, which at the time, and this estate was valued at a million dollars at the time.

Speaker: So yeah. All right. Wouldn't she go a little? Yeah. So in, yeah, they said it was of about 1 % of his net worth. So she would have gotten almost a million dollars in today's case. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a lot. Because what? A dollar was $300. No, a dollar was $30. So $10 ,000 is somebody do the math.

Speaker: Yeah, I can't I have to pee. Almost. I'm very almost done like literally just a few paragraphs. Um, so yeah, God, yeah, million dollars in 1945 Evelyn became involved in the murder of a friend's husband.

Speaker: like the whole story of it. Her friend's husband was named Albert Langford. However, she was later confirmed to only be connected due to their friendship. However, that case remains unsolved. I won't get into it.

Speaker: Moving on. That's crazy. Evelyn moved from New York City to California following Thaw's death, where she actually pursued sculpting. So she studied at the Grant Beach School of Arts and Crafts, which is so cool. It's called the School of Arts and Crafts. And she graduated in 1952, where she later taught sculpting and ceramics.

Speaker: which is some of the pictures I included is like her working on them and she's so cute. Evelyn wrote two memories, as I mentioned about her life, which were published in 1914 and 1934.

Speaker: And in 1955, she served as technical advisor to the movie, The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing, where she was paid $10 ,000. And this movie recounts her early life as well as white's murder. However, it is a mixture of fact and fiction. Most sources say a whole lot of fiction.

Speaker: Uh, yeah, it was a green couch, not a red buffing swing. Um, yeah. And while working on the film set, um, she did actually collapse from exhaustion to sad. Um, in 1956, she suffered a stroke while living in LA and she did pass away in 1967, which is like almost 80 years ago. It's crazy.

Speaker: Um, yeah, she, so she passed away in a nursing home at the age of 82, which I love. Wait, 1967. Yeah. Almost 80 years ago. Almost 60 years. Um,

Speaker: Yeah, so she passed away at the age of approximately 82 because we don't know her date of birth. And she was she was buried in California. Russell, her son went on to become a pilot and then was a test pilot for the Douglas Aircraft Company after World War Two.

Speaker: He became an accomplished pilot, placing third in the 1935 Bendix Trophy race from Los Angeles to Cleveland. So he placed third in this race and Amelia Earhart was also in this race and she placed fifth. So he beat Amelia Earhart.

Speaker: There you go. And just my last thing is that Russell unfortunately died in 1984 at the age of 73. I don't know what he died. I don't know what his cause of death was and I don't know what Evelyn's was. But they were both and I mean he was 73 and she was 82. So at least they lived long happy lives. Yeah I mean that's yeah it's unfortunate but it's also like

Speaker: It's, it's, it's part of life. Yeah, at least they made it. Yeah, right. She didn't get murdered. She didn't get murdered in this Crimes of Passion episode. That was, yeah, I was expecting her to get murdered. Yeah, no.

Speaker: And yeah, I think you think I read like a little blurb about the story, but I don't remember. I was like, so much when I like clicked into it, like I said, it was like, yeah, and her husband like murders the guy that like assaulted her. And I was like, oh, that's so cool. It's like, like, prevention. And then

Speaker: I literally have friends. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was like literally a message to do that. I picked a case. I had like a whole bunch of stuff, research, and then I literally opened it up the next day and like started reading through it. And I was like, Oh shit, he was even worse than the first guy.

Speaker: Oh, I know, right? You think you know a story or you can tell from reading so much about it until you just read more and then they're like, well, holy shit. Yeah, totally different. There's just so many more layers to everything once you start diving in. Yeah, she's had a crazy complicated life and I want to read both of her memoirs. I think it'd be interesting. Yeah, I think it'd be really cool.

Speaker: I, I, I want a few like celebrity, you know, autobiographies like, so I'm like, damn. Yeah. They do have interesting lives. That was crazy. Yeah. She, she had a life. I mean, it's crazy, but no kidding. No. Yeah. You can like look at the pictures and be like, Oh, okay. I understand a little bit more.

Speaker: I like, there's so many more pictures. There's like hundreds of pictures of her like on Google and everything and different photo shoots. And you can look up like different ads she did and stuff like that. So cool. Cause some cases you can't find any. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Speaker: Yeah. Well, take a quick break and then we can do your case. Yeah. Good job. Hi, we're back. Yes, we have been, but I forgot to press record for Kelsey. Oh God. We were just saying that, uh, mine's a little bit shorter. So it balances out. Yeah. All right.

Speaker: Um, I have for you a story that is about a parachute love triangle. I think it was, yeah, I ran across this one and I almost did it until I found Evelyn's and I was like, yeah, but this one, I read like a tiny bit, not like deep dive into this book. I know, I know names.

Speaker: Yeah, it's one of those lists where it doesn't say too, too many details. There's not a lot of details on this one anyway. But it's still crazy. So it's in, this takes place in Europe and Belgium.

Speaker: And that probably explains why the two main women's names names name. It's literally one name, both of their first name is else. Yeah.

Speaker: like Elsa, but without the A. Yeah. I was like, I kept reading it every time I saw it on a list of like crimes of passion. I'm like, am I reading this wrong every time? Yeah. I was like, okay.

Speaker: I mean, if you're going to have a love triangle, you might as well date two women that have the same name and then you don't have to remember what name you're supposed to be saying. That did cross my mind too. All right. So Els Klotmans is how I'm going to say it. That's how it looks. And Els Van Doren were friends who met at a skydiving club in Zwartburg that they were both a part of.

Speaker: fun um so else van doren was a 38 year old mother of two married to an antwerp jeweler and clockman's was a 26 year old school teacher. Okay.

Speaker: Yeah, so yeah, they're friends. And Van Doren, the older of the two, had completed about 2 ,300 jumps and was very experienced. So was Klotman's as well, but I think probably not as, because the other girl was what, eight years older or so. So woman, the other woman. 2 ,300 jumps is like insane.

Speaker: Oh yeah. They said she went like every weekend. Like she just like spent the weekend there. You'll see. Uh, yeah, they're both part of this club. They like to skydive and recreationally. And those people probably are very fun people like people that ride motorcycles. I don't know. Adrenaline junkies.

Speaker: Because of their same names, Els Van Doren suggested a nickname for Els Klotmans. She said we could call her Babs. Which is funny because my sister -in -law, in her roller derby group, one of the first friends she made in Edmonton, her nickname in the group is Babs. And I'd never heard that before.

Speaker: Yeah. Seems like a 1940s New York kind of nickname. I don't know. It should have been in your case. From the 1800s. You're just like her roller derby group. I'm like, what? Cool. Yeah. My sister -in -law was part of a roller dupe derby group. I think she was, she was, was it, I think she was

Speaker: nickname. Well, her nickname is Boots. Everybody calls her Boots. Boots? Yeah, like shoes, like winter boots. Oh, okay. But I think her roller derby name was Booty and the Beast. Oh, cute. Yeah. Because you got to have a fun nickname, kind of like a racehorse. Yeah. All right. Boots.

Speaker: Yeah. Looks cute. Yeah, she kept calling her maybe baby boots. Yes, baby boots. Ankle boots. Short boots. Okay. So, of course, only one thing could come between two fun living friends such as these. What do you think? What could come between such people? A random dude.

Speaker: Oh, it's all back to the penises just like at the top of the episode. Yeah. All right. He stopped probably he's probably not packing as well as willing to vote. No, and not that cute. And this is he's he was a Dutch man named Marcel Somers. So I did try looking him up. And yeah, like I said, the only pictures I could find

Speaker: was like maybe one of him and else, Van Doren and was not a good angle. They were probably about to jump. They were, you know, in a confined place, but like, he did not look that cute for two women to be interested in. To each their own. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. So he, but he, yeah, he enjoys the same interests as them. Obviously they've maybe gotten to know him over the time. They've been at that skydiving club. Um, now he's got something going on because like Van Doren is married, but she's begun an affair with Marcel first seeing him, uh, most Saturdays. So like, yeah, she's definitely gone on the weekends. Like I said.

Speaker: Nothing gets the motor going like plummeting to earth very, very fast. And you're like, we didn't die. Oh, yeah, it's that. Yeah, exactly. And then the thrill. Oh, all of it, I'm sure.

Speaker: Um, but yeah, so then, uh, it's not clear whether the first else, Van Doren, the older one was aware of it, but then Marcel started sleeping with Els Klotmans too, or Babs. Yeah. But I don't know. I don't want to call her Babs. I just can't. Yeah. Um, but she would have him on Fridays usually.

Speaker: So on November 10th, 2006, Els Van Doren was staying at Marcel's house in Eindhoven, I guess, Denmark, because he's, that's where he's from. But, so a hop, skipping a jump over there. Yeah. It's probably like 30 minute drive, who knows? So 30 minutes, you end up in a totally different country. Yeah. Not like Canada, you drive 12 hours and you're in the same province. Right.

Speaker: It's like, it's all like Texas up here. So, Els Van Doren was at Marcel's house when Els Klotman showed up unexpectedly. So Marcel ended up making Klotman sleep on the couch downstairs while he took Van Doren up to the bedroom where they apparently made love all night long, loudly. Wow. As a girl at my work says, the audacity.

Speaker: That is broken. Yeah, it's, it's rough. Um, and again, I don't think the first one knows, but the second one definitely knows. And now she knows she's, you know, on the couch. I'd be setting this shit on fire downstairs. I'm walking out and they can, they can exit when the smoke alarm starts going off.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, that was something. I carry underwood his car. Long as you don't do what she did. I know. About a week later, it's terrible. I'm sorry. They were all back at the skydiving club prepping for a jump. Van Doren, Klotman, Marcel Somers and another random guy at the club rehearsed their formation freefall that they were going to do. So once up in the Cessna plane, those little little planes,

Speaker: Van Doren and Salmers and the second random dude jumped from the plane, but Klotman's jumped a fraction of a second too late, missing grabbing the hands of the group. And she watched as they took their positions in the formation holding hands. Reports on the exact distance vary, but

Speaker: It seemed to be at around 1400 meters or about 4500 feet up, the three separated preparing to open their individual parachutes. Okay. Yeah. So they like, you know, they do the thing when they hold the hands. Yeah. And they're like, okay, we did it. Cool. We made a star for a few seconds. Okay. Bye. Okay. I gotta get my parachute now. All right. Yeah. And

Speaker: She was trying to do that and her helmet video camera caught her desperately attempting to release her shoot only to find that the main shoot and the backup were not opening. So bad. So terrifying. You just, you're like, okay, this is the safety. Everything that's supposed to be working is not. And then you've obviously separated from everyone else and you have seconds anyway.

Speaker: Yeah. Oh, I can't imagine it. I wouldn't. I mean, you would literally have to kick me in the back to get me out of a play, whether or not I had a parachute, you'd have to shove me out of the play. Sounds like

Speaker: a little bit of a nightmare stuff I'm be the person on the amazing race that's going like, Oh my God. Oh my God. But when they're trying to do the bungee jump or whatever. Yeah. I'll do the simulator where I just kind of lay down in a tube and it floats me around. That seems dangerous enough. Like if the power went out and I suddenly just to the bottom.

Speaker: Right. I think it's scared of a normal airplane that I'm not supposed to jump out of. Yeah. But yeah, she else tried to do everything to save herself was a quote from Luke. I don't know how to pronounce his last name. Dijers. I don't know. The pilot of the plane. She tried the parachute, but it wouldn't open that never happens.

Speaker: end quote, but it was all in vain. There was nothing she could do to save herself as she plummeted to the ground at about 120 miles or 193 kilometers per hour. Oh my God. Did you like, it sounds bad. The question I'm about to ask, did she explode? Well, it's basically at that, you might as well be in a car crash at that point, right? But you have nothing around you. It just said she crashed into a suburban

Speaker: garden and was killed instantly. Yeah, of course. You're so high up and then nothing, there's nothing you could do to arrest your fall. Like, no, there's no amount of like cushion. I feel like at that speed that you could have that sanding still like that, that you would save somebody's life with.

Speaker: No, and it was all, it's all on her camera on her video camera on her helmet too. That's like, obviously that pilot was today up there watching. There's nothing he could do either. I thought about that too, how he was like the other jumpers that were involved to how like horrifying that would be. Right. Yeah. That's so sad.

Speaker: It's horrible. But yeah, that's what happened. And then obviously upon inspecting Van Doren's equipment, it was discovered that the cords had been cut. So intentional tampering, of course. And it didn't take too long for investigators to hone in on. Home in, I think it's home in, but. It's honed in, isn't it?

Speaker: It's one of those ones where I'm always like, I see people write it one way and then I'm like, I don't know. Anyway, they, they knew it was her. She had a history also of instability as far as like her mental health went. So, um,

Speaker: She had attempted suicide before in 2006, but the one thing that really set them off was she did so again one month after Van Doren's death, right before they were supposed to question her a second time. Yeah, sad, doesn't look good though also. I have to say, why don't people

Speaker: Like not that you should have murdered him instead. But why don't like more women go after the dude that's cheating instead of the one he's cheating with, especially if you probably don't know about each other. Like fuck him. Don't attack the other girl that didn't know. Like. Exactly. That's right. She probably didn't know. And like. Yeah. Okay. So shouldn't you be bad at fucking Marcel? Yeah. Oh my God.

Speaker: Yeah. More people need to like just break up with people and be like, fuck you. Instead of murdering each other. Yeah. She clearly had some major issues that she didn't get help with. Which is also sad. Oh, exactly. So she was arrested in January, 2007. Um,

Speaker: I mean, like, I'm like 13, 15 years ago. Yeah. I was pregnant. I would have been pregnant with rain that year and she's just turned 14. Yeah. So yeah. And the prosecutor Patrick Boyan gave the details about the relationship with Marcel Sommers. Sommers, I don't know how I said it before. It's like Suzanne Sommers.

Speaker: No, it's spelled somers with an O, so I don't know, however you say that one. I think it's somers. Okay. But he said he tried to shake off Klotman's. Klotman said she knew he wasn't as interested in her anymore, too. She told media that she always knew she was number two with somers and else Von Doren was number one.

Speaker: She said it didn't bother her at first since she had such a low opinion of herself. So it's sad. It is a mental health issue. I think at the core, which was the sad part. Yeah. Um, and basically that was their whole case was that she had plenty of opportunity to sabotage the cords and motive, obviously. I mean, in her mind.

Speaker: I guess she was there all night and Van Doren had her gear with her in the home. And the jury was shown some of the final footage from Els Van Doren's camera. Oh, not bad. I don't know if it was like, I don't know, probably as much as they needed to, but still I'm sure that was horrific.

Speaker: Yeah, that would, you would remember that too much, even if you're not seeing like anything bad or violent, even just her struggling to open the shoot or anything like that. Yeah. It'd be so heartbreaking to watch. I didn't want, I didn't seek it out. That's for sure. Um, so fortunately she was found guilty on October 20th, 2010.

Speaker: Alice Van Doren's husband and kids were present at the trial, so unfortunately they had kids together. But the verdict was a win, especially since they had literally no hard evidence that it was her.

Speaker: So that was good that they got her though. I think it was her. Yeah, it seems unlikely to be the random unnamed dude that was jumping with the word. Yeah. If it was M. Night Shyamala, no. Yeah. Then he would have been

Speaker: The pilot? No, that's good. Bruce Willis. Random guy number two would just be the cameo of Bruce Willis suddenly in the movie. So, Klotman maintained her innocence the whole time, never confessing. She received a 30 -year sentence.

Speaker: which apparently was the with the judge taking into consideration her mental health issues her past and like she wasn't unsympathetic, I would say, but she wanted her to be away for a while and yeah, try and get sane. Yeah, hopefully. Some sort of like counseling and stuff. Right. And then the last I could find was that she lost an appeal in 2011. So

Speaker: She'd still be in there. So it was 2010. She said it's 22, 22. It's two, two, 2022 today. I know that's two money twos. Should we make a wish? Yeah. Okay. So that I'm a, I'm a too quick case or today. That was me. That was my first case. That wasn't too bad. Hey, I didn't know you had a second one.

Speaker: up my sleeve. If it's not too long yet. Yeah, no, we're good. I couldn't not talk about this one when it was on the list because I didn't know about it. Ressa at me, you probably knew about it. My sister were big Simpsons fans in our house. And this is about an actor named Phil Hartman. It sucks. So honestly, I'll it's that's why it didn't cover. It's not long.

Speaker: Yeah, here's all the shitty stuff. Just like when the reference was like, and we're now starting the downward spiral that doesn't stop and

Speaker: But like your case, there's good stuff about their life. Yeah, it's like, we're gonna bookend good. Yeah, good. And then shit in the middle. Should I have saved the penises from the end? Maybe. The penis astronaut facts. Okay, let's just talk more about William Defoe at the end, because I, I honestly have loved him since Spider -Man, like,

Speaker: He's a great actor. The Green Goblin like came out when... Oh God. That's Spider -Man what? It came out when I was like seven. Sorry, the Green Goblin just took on a whole new meaning. But yeah, he's good. Thanks for that. No, I've always liked him since then. He's so good. Yeah, he makes a good villain. I liked him. Yeah.

Speaker: Okay, so there's a quote from Wikipedia. Philip Edward Hartman was a Canadian -American actor, comedian, Screenwhiter. We didn't get a lot of sleep, you guys. Yeah.

Speaker: and graphic designer, didn't know that. But Simpson's fans might remember him best as Troy McClure. Some of his best quotes as listed on screen rant and handpicked by me as my favorite from that list. Hello, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such Fox specials as alien nose job and five fabulous weeks of this Chevy Chase show.

Speaker: I never know if it's Chevy or Chevy. Sorry. Chevy. Chevy. It's just, it's hard because they're both CHs, but then they make different sounds in his first name and his last name. Does that not fuck anyone else up? Just me. Chevy Chase.

Speaker: got it anyway so this he's like the character um was like always in these like educational videos for like kids and the class so like bill nye the science guy but no um hi i'm tri mclure you might remember me from such public service videos as designated drivers the life saving lady

Speaker: The life saving nerds and phony tornado alarms reduce readiness. This is so long. I'm here today to give you the skinny on shoplifting thereby completing my plea bargain with the good people at Foot Locker of Beverly Hills. Oh my god, what movie did I watch where like the girl literally

Speaker: Oh, she has to do like these PSA ads and she's the daughter of somebody and she's like, is that the last one? Okay, bye. And it was like her literally like community service. She had to do all these like PSA. She'd either been drinking and driving and she had to do an ad about it or like texting and driving or something. Oh no. I can't remember what it was. A movie?

Speaker: I'm sure it was a movie. I'm not sure. Sounds funny. Yeah. Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such medical films as Alice doesn't live here anymore. And Mommy, what's wrong with that man's face? Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from such telethons as Out With Gout, 88, and Let's Save Tony Orlando's House.

Speaker: Oh, this one's from there showing them a bunch of driver's ed, driver's scary videos to these things. What a terrible waste. Hi, I'm actor Troy McClure. You might remember me from such driver's ed films as Alice's Adventures Through the Windshield Glass and the decapitation of Larry Ledfoot. For the next 60 minutes, we'll be seeing actual film of car crash victims. Ooh, I don't like when they do that.

Speaker: Yes, they really make, you know, I don't know. Well, I know you don't really watch a lot of Simpsons, but they like make jokes at themselves and at networks and at

Speaker: But I know like in high school or not even in high school, in middle school, when mad came to our school, they played audio that was like voicemails and stuff that people had left as they were involved in like drunk driving car accidents and fucking died. And they played the audio for us. With like Sarah McLaughlin playing in the background and the arms. No, it was just like the audio and like you could hear people like sobbing and

Speaker: stuff. And so then talking about just showing videos of the car crashes. I'm like, Oh, no, I've listened to audio of people dying in car accident. Like much on a Tuesday fucking morning when you're like, I don't even have my license yet. Like calm down. Yeah. It was in middle school. So before grade 10. Yeah. Oh, wow. Like just, Oh, I didn't like it. No.

Speaker: No, not necessary. No, not for middle schoolers. I don't think it was a bit much. Yeah, it's just reminded me of that. And I was like, no, I had pushed, I had repressed that memory. See, they're saying they said some real shit in that show sometime. That shit is crazy. They shouldn't show people that. I mean, like, I don't like when podcasts necessarily play.

Speaker: like last audio shit either. That's pretty nasty. No, don't need that. DNA is God's recipe for making you. You take a dash of dad, a pinch of mom, then we bake for nine months and that's good, Billy. That one was so funny until the end.

Speaker: It's always weird, I don't know who writes them. This is from one where he goes out with their aunt Selma, my good, and they go to his house, I think, because it's like, my good looks paid for that pool and my talent filled it with water. Hi, I'm Troy McClure, your future uncle. And then from the one about, I don't know, mad cow disease. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about.

Speaker: He's just the best character and his voice that he delivers them. So anyway, he was born 24th of September, 1948 in Brantford, Ontario. Like we said, he's Canadian American. And he did act on SNL where he was nicknamed Glue for the way he always held the show together. That's sweet. I know.

Speaker: He did also act on news radio, Sergeant Bilko, jingle all the way, and small soldiers. And married his third wife, Bryn Amdahl, in 1987, and they had two kids together. But speaking of bad marriages, she was addicted to drugs and abused him. Oh, that's unfortunate. Yeah, women can be used too.

Speaker: Yeah, they tend to go a lot heavy on psychological. And I feel like a lot of people don't realize how many things like women do in relationships that are considered like psychological abuse that like people just feel is like typical girlfriend stuff. And you're like, no, that's actually like classified as like emotional abuse.

Speaker: Yeah, it can be harder to spot. That's true. Yeah. Rather than physical. But yeah, just put your shit out on Reddit and asking why the asshole and people be like, dude, get the fuck out of that relationship. Right. Yeah.

Speaker: Like this one. She went out to dinner one night in May 1998 with a friend to Buca de Beppo. I just feel like I'd heard of that restaurant. Yeah, it sounds like vaguely familiar. Fancy? I don't know. Probably Italian. She had drinks with a friend and producer, Christine Zander, and she and Hartman argued when she got home.

Speaker: So around 3 a .m. What? Sorry, like something cut out. Oh, yeah, it's a little laggy. Sorry, you said they were they were out for dinner. Yes. But then when she got home, they argued and Hartman went to bed and then around 3 a .m., she shot him in the head, throat and chest as he slept. What? Yeah.

Speaker: straight up, she went to the physical abuse. Like she just fucking, she just didn't even turn a corner. I don't know what the fuck. She snapped for sure. What were they arguing about? I don't even know.

Speaker: Wow, like that's such an extreme reaction to take to like, Yeah, it honestly I didn't read as many articles about this one as the other one, but it was more focused on her mental health like the other lady where it's like she said she was on Zoloft and Coke and then she had been drinking. So I think it was probably some of that too. But I don't know. That's awful.

Speaker: I know I didn't I didn't know this had happened to him. She like drove to her friend's house Ron Douglas and she confessed immediately and he like didn't believe her. So went back with her to the house and then called 911. So the cops came and removed the children. And by that time, Bryn had locked herself in the bathroom. And rather than give herself up, she shot herself. What?

Speaker: Yeah. It's like now they don't have parents. Lady, do you not love your kids? Oh, that's heartbreaking. And then like the kids were in the house and she left the house with like the kids there. Yeah. It all pisses me off. Oh, that's so sad. Yeah. That's that one. Um,

Speaker: is basically that one, although there was a little bit more that was interesting about it. There's John Levitz, who is an actor, who has appeared on The Simpsons too, and also he had a cartoon show called The Critic, where his character would go, it stinks, it stinks. Criticized movies. And he acted in The Benchwarmers, and you ever see the movie Brat Race?

Speaker: No, but I love the bench workers. Oh, sorry. I for some reason thought you'd recognize the other one because that's the one I recognize. No, the bench workers was like my favorite movie for many years. Oh, so, so stupidly too. I just love in it.

Speaker: I don't know either. I just like the, why the fuck can't I remember his name? The guy that plays Napoleon. I'm like, he's not in enough movies anymore. Oh shit. What is his name? Um, he's in it. Yeah. Well, he played. Yeah. He plays a nerdy guy. I love it. Um, it's baseball, isn't it? Yeah.

Speaker: It's such a good movie. It's so funny. They warming up the bench. Well, rat race is good. I like fricking rat race a lot. Oh, he's the millionaire in it. A baseball loving millionaire. John Lovett. Oh, John Hader. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I have to watch that. It sounds funny. It's a funny movie. It might still be on Netflix. I'm pretty sure it was on Netflix at one point. I have so many movies I need to watch. It's so funny.

Speaker: right after this. Oh, I could. I like love it that much. It's such a stupidly funny movie. Well, I like John Lovitz. He's a funny actor, this guy. Yeah. So he has accused Andy Dick, another actor that a lot of people know. I don't know. Comedy. Name sounds familiar, but I feel like I can't attach a face to the name.

Speaker: He has a douchey face with his big thick black glasses and curly hair. I don't know. He's kind of D -list like Kathy Griffin. Okay, so John Lovitz accused Andy Dick of getting Bryn.

Speaker: Hartman, whatever, back into Coke. So they have had a few run -ins since Phil Hartman's death. Lovett said that Dick came up to him at a restaurant and said, I put the Phil Hartman curse on you, you're the next to die. So John had him kicked out of the restaurant. Okay, well. Petty. She's an adult, so I mean, she got back into drugs.

Speaker: It's yeah, there's not a lot good gonna come out of this. Cute. I don't know. Yeah. How about your effort into helping out the kids instead of hating each other? That's so true. Just like help your friends kids that he can't be there for. Exactly. Yeah, I have who

Speaker: raised them. But yeah, the last of their feud was that the next year at the Laugh Factory, Lovett slammed Dick's head into a bar, which I don't know, aggressive for him.

Speaker: So, and then when Phil Hartman's character was killed off on news radio, like after Hartman died, that's when Jon Lovitz joined the show. So I was like, Oh, maybe that's possibly why he felt like he had to defend Hartman so much. I don't know.

Speaker: But Brynn's sister and brother -in -law raised the kids who then got, the kids got to split the $1 .23 million inheritance when they turned 25. So they did okay, but that fucking sucks because their parents are still dead and I'm sure they'd still run. Dad was alive and probably their mom.

Speaker: Ooh, that sucks. And then the Simpsons, rather than replacing Hartman, retired the character of Troy McClure. And Matt Groening has called Phil Hartman a master. I just thought that was cute and I wanted to include that. But yes, I ended it on a sad note. Yeah, bummer. I couldn't, I was like, I can't only cover that case. That would be just fucking...

Speaker: I don't know. True crime is hard. I know. Yeah. I know we might. Yeah. You guys know it's a balance. Yeah. Especially, well, it's different when you're the one telling the story, you always feel like you're like, I can't joke too much. I have to be. Yeah. But also then you're like, we're a comedy podcast.

Speaker: That's why I just said and he's a dick and this guy's a dick like 1000 times because I couldn't really say anything else without being like, you know what, a lot of dicks this episode. Gonna say you could probably make your drinking game every time dick or penis was mentioned. Yeah, whether he colloquially like he's a or Andy dick or

Speaker: Dicks are us. And that's our episode. Oh, and I think we picked what we're doing next episode too. Yes. We haven't announced to you guys. And then I remember what it is now. It's Scottish lore. Yeah. And that will be out on March 4th.

Speaker: Yes. So reminding everybody that we will not have a new episode on the 18th of February or the 25th. Brief hiatus. Yeah. Because we're going to Vegas. Sam straight. Yeah. But we might have some content for Patreon. So you can see us there. Hopefully no.

Speaker: true crime other than pictures of the million at the beginning. Caffeine. Caffeine. Just making up words over here. That's how we do. Yeah. Well, thanks for listening. Catch you next time. Keep it cryptic. I'm making it happen. Stop trying to make fetch happen.

Speaker: All right. Bye -bye. Bye. Yay. We did the thing.

Speaker: This has been Castles Encrypteds. You can listen to our podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Cast, and our YouTube channel.

Speaker: Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Reddit. On our website, you can listen to all of our episodes as well as view pictures for each of our segments. Check out our Patreon page to view all of our tiers and become a Patreon supporter today to unlock monthly bonus episodes and behind the scenes content. We are working on an Ask Us Anything. You can submit questions by social media or by email at castlesandcryptids at gmail .com.

Speaker: Do you have a spooky ghost story, a creepy cryptid sighting, or a thrilling true crime tale you would like to share and have us include in a future episode? Send us your listener story by social media or by email. Please include the name that you would like mentioned. Our music is by Cobia Fair. Our logo and artwork is by Antonio Garcia. Thanks for listening!