Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Business of Machining - Episode 109
238 Plays7 years ago
A Stone's Throw Away The parallels in the lives of Grimsmo and Saunders are uncanny to say the least. Both get the chance to clear their heads--one on Lake Ontario and the other on Lake Erie.
Full Steam Ahead During one of the most emotional weeks of his life, Saunders watches on Instagram as the UMC-750 and TM3 are delivered in his absence--and that's a beautiful thing. With a team he can rely on, he's been able to focus his attention on who needs it most: with his wife! We're happy to say Evonne's made it through surgery and on the road to recovery!
#Inspired Grimsmo gives an occupational talk at a local school. By taking a hands-on approach, he's creating memorable experiences that resonate with the younger generation.
PLANNING FULL SWISS Grimsmo knows exactly which part the Swiss lathe will play in shop production. In addition to tool holders, drill holders, and inserts, he plans to purchase a 60,000 rpm (not a typo) electric spindle to mill the torx pattern on the screws!
#7 TOOL UPDATE In last week's episode, Saunders suggested that Grimsmo try ramping down to solve a recurring tool problem. Did it work?
WWYD? Phil asks a thought-provoking question about whether or not to alternate between OP1 and OP2 on a 5-axis machine tool with 10 pallets. Short answer: It depends.
Higbee Threads? Tell me more! With the SAGA having threaded parts, this clearly the way to go FULL GRIMSMO!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Positive Vibes
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the Business of Machining, episode 109. My name is John Grimsmo. My name is John Saunders. Good morning, buddy. Good morning. How are you? I'm fantastic. Good, good. Things are really, really good right now. Just a super good positive outlook on life and kind of step back sometimes and look at things and be like, holy crap. Yeah? Life is good.
00:00:29
Speaker
What triggered that? Well, yesterday afternoon, I posted an Instagram. I went for a little walk on the beach, like frozen beach, snow ice everywhere. I felt like I was in Antarctica. It was just a cool place to be. I'm there for five minutes because it's so cold, but it was just like a good perspective shift, beautiful sunny day.
Finding Peace in Tough Situations
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, just help me think things through a little bit.
00:00:56
Speaker
What, uh, is that Erie, Lake Erie or Ontario? Lake Ontario. Oh, okay. Oh, that that's, uh, I wish it was Erie because we, uh, I have actually, so it's Thursday morning. We're doing our podcast on a normally do a Wednesday mornings. And, um, I, I just got back yesterday, swung by the shop for five minutes, but, uh, all I spent the whole week, uh,
00:01:22
Speaker
Helping my wife and it was great and we're home And there's on the ninth floor of the Cleveland Clinic They've got this rooftop thing you can go up to and it's actually really nice like you can kind of get away from feeling like you're in a hospital and and you can look out and this is view of Lake Erie and it's funny because I'm not really a big water sports guy or boating guy or lake guy and we were up there and my original
00:01:49
Speaker
When we first got to the hospital and had to kind of start going through this, I was like, all I want to do is kind of get out of here. And then we hit some hurdles and we hit some setbacks and you kind of manage expectations and stay positive. And we were up on, she and I were up on that ninth floor looking out over the lake. She was through her surgery and she was getting, it was tough, but she was getting better each day. And that was kind of like, this is all I want in my life. This is great. Yeah.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, so that's kind of funny, right? How come our lives keep doing this? That's wonderful. But it's really good you have to spend, you got to be able to take time with her and not worry about anything.
Balancing Family and Work
00:02:31
Speaker
I mean, jeez, your five-axis machine got delivered and you're 1000% cool with letting everybody else take care of it and you're taking care of family.
00:02:40
Speaker
It was great. The guys were like, hey, do you want to keep us up? Do you want me to keep you updated? Obviously, I'm here if you need something, but no, you guys run with it. I actually followed it. I gave Ed. Ed was running all our Instagram. I'm sitting there watching our own Instagram.
00:03:02
Speaker
That's how I'm learning about it, just like everyone else. I've actually started liking them, but I'm like, oh, I feel like that's an Instagram faux pas. You're not supposed to like your own images, but I'm like, but it wasn't even me. Yeah, exactly. No, that's perfect. Yeah, so I swung by. We got home afternoon yesterday and I had to run out to get some errands anyways, and so just swung by the shop for five minutes. I walked in and just had, it sounds like one of the same moments you did where
00:03:31
Speaker
It's cool, John. We've got the guys rearrange the shop a little. I'll just do a video. We should do a shop update, but we've got this row with the tormachs on one edge. It's a really cool mix. I don't think anybody would ever come up with this workflow
00:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Granted, we haven't proven it out yet, but we know things well enough that I'm pretty darn sure this is going to be how it is, at least for a while. Things are always changing, but I'm excited for it. Yep. That's
Experimenting with Shop Layout
00:04:10
Speaker
awesome. I was thinking about that too, actually.
00:04:12
Speaker
the difference between over-planning something and then just trying something, and then learning, and then seeing if you like it, and then moving it, changing it. We got new computers for the shop, which I'm super excited about. And it's like, well, where do we put them? Where do we put the tables? And how do we rearrange everything? I didn't want to over-plan it. I just wanted to set up a computer somewhere, see how it feels, see how it looks, and then tweak from there. And I'm totally cool with that. I actually really like that.
00:04:41
Speaker
I haven't talked to Jared or Ed or anybody, but we had bought, I found these on Amazon, I think, or eBay. They were these rigging skates and they were very inexpensive. They've got kind of the four, almost like roller bearings.
00:05:02
Speaker
For the skid for the wheels and then they've got a pivot like lazy susan pivot top And so I bought I think three of them or four of them and I bought a pretty decent those were cheap I don't want to say like 100 and some bucks for all four of them or something and say and they each do good grief They each do six or twelve thousand pounds. So way plenty Yeah, and then I bought a tow jack that was not as cheap but still worth it It's a bottle jack that has the tow feature. You know that thing is where has like an L
00:05:32
Speaker
Okay, you know what a bottle jack is. Yeah. Well, so a bottle jack the problem is especially on a on a strong one You've got like a 10 inch height This thing has an L bracket that comes down so you could lift up or start to lift something with only like an inch of clearance That's really cool
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, so I said to the guys, if you feel comfortable, we can move the VF2 on our own. We have rigors coming. So by all means, just do it, have them do it. But if you take the sheet metal away in your head, a VF2 is a relatively small C-frame machine, 6,000 pounds. So it's not that crazy. You got to be careful with the weights and just safety. But I think, I mean, it was moved. I think they did it, not the rigor. And why did I mention that?
00:06:16
Speaker
Oh, so we ended up going with Jared's idea on the shop layout. Ed, I had been focused and Ed had kind of been helping me think about moving the training over to the other side. And long-term, I still think that has merit, but the floors were bothering me. It was kind of just a big disruption or change, too much change. And I really do want to climate control
00:06:41
Speaker
the shop, but we're going to start with just one bay and I want... It just made more sense. Let's just keep it all in one bay for now. And that's what led to... Oh, so I guess the point was, especially when you end your next shop, pick up those stuff because then you can move stuff around and just experiment with it.
00:07:01
Speaker
I experimented with like normally I've got a standing desk with my laptop right between the two machines and I'm turning back and forth, you know, all the time while I'm tweaking stuff. So I tried moving my laptop kind of away outside the cell around the tables.
00:07:16
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't know if I like it, but I'm willing to test it. I'm willing to try. And, uh, I was telling our newest guy, yo, that, uh, he was asking me about it and I'm like, ah, you know, I'm testing. I don't like it. And he goes, change it back. Like if you don't like it, then just change it back. Why hesitate? I was like, well, I want to try it out. You know, like give it a, give it a good shot. Understand the reasons why yes or no, but, uh, but yeah, it was funny how quick he was just like, dude, just don't, don't suffer. Just change it back.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that was like moving the training stuff over. I had this kind of internal, I'm going to force it to work. Again, it is a good idea long-term, I think. But all of a sudden, I was like, what if we just don't? And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, I like that a lot better. Yeah, I feel great. I feel good about that. Yeah, good grief.
New Equipment Excitement
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, it was a real emotional week. It was a roller coaster, but I'll go back in this morning, but it was awesome to see that all happen. It was actually wonderful to be an outsider watching those machines get delivered. It was cool to walk up to that UMC 750 last night. It's big.
00:08:32
Speaker
It's small. Okay. I watched one of Ed's videos and it looked big-ish in the video, but...
00:08:39
Speaker
Well, so to me, it's kind of a larger than life machine. John, we have five axes. I can't believe that. It is so cool. And I think what makes me say it's quote unquote small, it's a 19,000 pound machine. I mean, there's nothing small about it. But compared to our VM3, the UMC's table is really low.
00:09:04
Speaker
And the way the door opens and the way the spindle is oriented, it's a lot more intimate of a machine. It's really easy to get up to it, which I think is actually really important for five-axis ergonomics, checking works, setups, all that stuff. So it's just different than what I was... And again, it's funny, I've walked up to probably 20 different UMC 750s, like legitimately walked up to that many of them. And it's not until it's your own that you start to change your perspective of it.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah. Like your Instagram post said, like there are many like it, but this one is mine. Yes. Yeah.
00:09:42
Speaker
So the guys, we got the air and power hooked up. So we're just waiting on, I literally just told my HFO yesterday, they're going to send a service deck out, which will get them finish the installation. They've got a really slick system on the UMCs where the sheet metal has kind of its own little carrier system on the machine because all the back is open, which is awesome to film and show kind of the inner workings. Because the UMC casting is very unique.
00:10:09
Speaker
compared to a C-frame machine. I mean, you can see the screws and the motors and it's pretty cool. So does the sheet metal end up covering that or is it always open? No, the sheet metal will cover it. Yeah, but we get to see it now. I really enjoyed Ed's video where he's kind of walking around pointing out the open back and like looking at the casting and the ball screws and stuff and he was totally geeking out. And it was really fun to see him get excited about that. I'd like to see more of that. That was really cool.
00:10:39
Speaker
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm literally watching that on my phone like leaning forward like, yeah, that's awesome. Holy cow. Show me more. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, so that was my week. What are you even up to?
Sharing Passion with the Next Generation
00:11:00
Speaker
Um, busy week with, uh, kid, parent, teacher conferences. So I'm back and forth all the time. It was life's birthday on Monday. Um, so that was fun. Winter birthday celebration at school for him. And, um,
00:11:16
Speaker
what do we do this weekend? Spent a lot of time with the kids and the family. Brought the kids to the shop for like 45 minutes, you know, put a pallet on kind of thing. Or I think it was a new bar in the lathe. Keep that running while we were doing errands and other stuff. So that was cool.
00:11:33
Speaker
And what did I tell you last Tuesday? I think I did an occupation talk at school. Did I tell you about this? No, dude. So I mean, the Claire has been going there for almost seven years. And yeah.
00:11:48
Speaker
It's been this ongoing joke. We're really close with the principal. It's a small school, Montessori school. And this ongoing joke, like, well, John can't come for an occupation talk because he makes knives and sharp pointy things. And you can't bring that to the classroom. But they finally, they're like, why haven't we done this yet? You should come for an occupation talk. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So it was so much fun. I was actually nervous because I just wanted to have fun and perform.
00:12:18
Speaker
have these kids understand what I'm gushing about. But it was so much fun. I brought tons of stuff from the shop. I brought like a big yogurt container full of bad lathe parts. Like the one you brought to our open house. Yes.
00:12:33
Speaker
So it was full to the top and I brought a huge baking sheet and I had one of the volunteers just dump it out and then a swarm of kids coming in like looking at them, touching them, feeling them. No, I didn't get a turn yet. It was so funny.
00:12:49
Speaker
But yeah, so I got to tell them what we do and how we do it and how we started in the garage and a lot of great questions coming up from the kids and from the teachers and Clara and Leif were up there in front of the class with me and Clara was like, don't forget to tell about this and don't forget to show the logo and tell what that's all about. And so Clara was kind of doing some presenting too. And it was just, it was a wonderful experience. It was so much fun.
00:13:13
Speaker
And I brought the 3d printer in the morning and I printed something all day throughout school and I printed their school. I extruded their school logo about one inch up. And so it just printed for six, seven hours. And all day the kids were like walking by it, like checking in on it. You know, how's it going? They'd never seen one before. So yes. That's awesome. It's so much fun. That's cool. Yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah. Other than that, the past few days, I've been a terrible excuse, but I've been too busy. But before that, I spent a lot of time kind of planning out the Swiss lathe purchase.
00:13:55
Speaker
Okay. Um, and I feel like, like I said, the past few days, I'm too busy to deal with it, but it's stupid. But yeah, like figuring out what tool holders I'm going to get, what, uh, inserts, what drill holders and you know, how I'm going to organize the whole thing, because ideally it's set up to make all of our parts all the time, say for some college ages.
Strategizing Future Purchases
00:14:13
Speaker
And, uh, I figured I could probably get 80% there, which is fantastic. Like, you know, change out a drill here and there. Uh, yeah.
00:14:23
Speaker
So yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around that process and what I need to buy basically. Does it matter if you, like, is it a better deal or is there shipping or tooling credits where you need to buy it all with the machine? I haven't actually talked to them about that yet, but with the lathe, I mean, I assume you just want it, you just want it to make parts. So you're not going to grow into this machine. I mean, you're, it's going to get there and it's going to start. I know exactly what I'm putting on it. I know exactly the tools that I need. Um,
00:14:51
Speaker
Same for brand and specific model, but I know what it needs. And on a lathe, there's not that much. I'm buying four stick tools and a bunch of drill holders and a 60,000 RPM electric speeder or electric spindle. What? 60,000? Yeah.
00:15:15
Speaker
It's like a cremel on steroids. Tiny little spindle that will be perfect for milling our torques pattern on the screws. Okay, yep. Because right now it's electric. Yeah, it's electric. So I have an 18,000 RPM mechanical spindle right now, speeder. And that works fine. But figure 60 can't hurt either.
00:15:37
Speaker
Well, but in your 18K, if you recall, the gearbox puts out a lot of heat. Yes, it does. So I've got a coolant line, like splattered right on it. Yeah, this should be much better.
00:15:49
Speaker
That was one of the cool things too, hearing Adam, the machinist talk about on that tour at Superb Industries, the factory that makes a billion parts a year, was the more jig grinders. I can't remember the term that he used for the spindle. That video is semi-approved though, so it should go out.
00:16:08
Speaker
But the more spindles come up to a temperature and then the machine has a heating element to keep the spindle at a certain temperature, regardless of whether it's been on or not. It's pretty cool to see how that... Yeah, right? The thermal element of things. Like on mills, they have a spindle chiller often.
00:16:33
Speaker
I think there's still a feedback loop. It's not just trying to cool it down to ambient. I think they're just circular. I don't know actually what I'm talking about. But I was thinking it'd be cool if it could automatically heat or cool the spindle as necessary to keep it at 80 degrees or whatever it needs to be. Right, right. I don't think those spindles get hot. It's an air driven tool.
00:17:00
Speaker
So I don't think they're going to get hot in the sense of like, if you're roughing with them or hogging, it changes anything. Anyway, the more you see high-end machine tools or accurate parts, the more you think about the thermal element of the holder, the machine, the tool, the coolant, oil, chillers, all that. Yep. Yeah. On my lathe especially, we've talked about this a long time ago.
00:17:27
Speaker
thermal growth heat from all the live tools and all just the spindles and the coolant going to 300 PSI. It gets very hot and jungly inside. Um, and that definitely screws with tolerance. Yeah. So adding the mist collector where it's sucking in, you know, uh, what is it? One, one unit of air, like a inside chamber on the lathe of air every 15 seconds. So it's that made a huge difference.
00:17:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's funny. Just something like that.
Titanium Machining Improvements
00:18:00
Speaker
Hey, you were talking a week or two ago about your slotting the titanium, right? I was going to bring that up. Any update? Normally that tool just breaks randomly, but just yesterday we replaced it at its life, which is, I forget what it is, 10 pallets or whatever it is.
00:18:18
Speaker
But yeah, Angelo said he replaced it and I'm like, wait, it actually wore out and didn't just break. So I think we're winning here. I did use your ramping theory. Um, so instead of slotting, I'm, I'm zigzagging ramping down. And I looked at the tool under the microscope and it actually looks really fantastic. Like minor wear on the corners, but not like I expected. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really happy. And I think I restrategize some other stuff too. Uh, I can't remember now.
00:18:47
Speaker
But yeah, it's great. We talked on WhatsApp after the podcast and you threw out your feeds and speeds and my concern was you had too low, you had to be rubbing. It was like three tenths feed tooth and tie and that's a good example of where you think you're babying the tool but you're just not letting it cut. Titanium is bad at dissipating heat and can be gummy anyways.
00:19:15
Speaker
I was just going to say, I mean, it's always hard to argue with somebody if they have a recipe that works, but you didn't. I mean, your recipe wasn't working. It's like they had to double or likely triple that chip load. Yeah. Yeah. And I go back and forth. You actually, you could get way more. Yeah, you could. And I need to play more with that. With micro milling, like 20,000 mills, it seems like the advice from Harvey and others is the opposite. Like you actually want a two-tenth chip load.
00:19:43
Speaker
for tiny, tiny tools. And I struggle with understanding the hows and whys of that, but it seems to work. Well, agree that micromachines are totally different. Yeah, exactly. So I'm straddling that line of what's the difference? A 16th inch end mill, an 8th inch end mill, which recipe do you use for each? Right. Right.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, I've asked the Harvey guys that as well. It's like, why do the laws of physics, like the sheer, the upgrind, the relief, the chip load and all that? I'm sure there's more to it that perhaps I wasn't thinking earlier about. For one thing, a 20,000 end mill isn't going to be generating
00:20:26
Speaker
volumetric amounts of heat into the part. Good. I'm glad that's working better. That's great. Now, the one big one that's still driving us insane is a 93 SOW four flute end mill. So we're making the holes for our little stop pins. So it's a 125 hole and a 156 hole in titanium blind hole. I drill it out
00:20:49
Speaker
I take that 93,000 mill, I interpolate down circular, and then I clean up the walls and the corners of that end mill die all the time. What angle is the drill? Regular, I don't remember. 135 or something? Yeah. Does it get used elsewhere? Yes.
00:21:13
Speaker
Well, so OSG and I'm sure others, OSG is what cut my eye. They have a number of pretty solid flat drill. And I tried that. They're quite expensive, but I tried them a few weeks ago and I destroyed them fairly quickly. I broke like three of them. And I'm like, what the heck? And then I just gave up. Bring them in on tests though, don't do that. Like seriously, those two guys live for that. They actually are happy to tell their
00:21:41
Speaker
reporting bosses, like I was able to go and bring tools in on tests. Well, and maybe now that I've had bad results, um, I can actually do that and have more information for them saying like, this didn't work. And what am I doing wrong? I've, I have some experience, but obviously I'm doing it wrong. Um, cause that would be perfect. That's exactly my theory is like drill it with a flat bottom. And then the corners by themselves aren't doing anything like when they're ramping down. Is it a sharp corner tool?
00:22:11
Speaker
Okay. That's the other thing is I realized I could probably get away with a minor radius on that tool. Yeah. And that might make a big difference. Have you tried a 3D adaptive rest machining that would actually recognize the drill angle remaining geometry and do it in a more constant engagement cut? No. So the drill drills to the bottom of the hole, which leaves the small taper at the bottom, right?
00:22:37
Speaker
Correct. So it's not a lot of material, but it certainly needs to go away. Yeah, but to quote Lockwood, small numbers don't mean they aren't still significant relative to what you're doing. Yep. That was not as good. Yeah, he said something like that, and you're right. Right. Just because you jump from a fourth, tenths, from two-tenths, thou, those are micro ... Seems like nothing, but it's double. Yeah, exactly.
00:23:05
Speaker
I would look at why the tool is failing. 93,000 mill is not that small. If the right speeds and fees, it ought to last a consistent amount of time. This is titanium as well though. In the past, I've had six, 10, 12 pallets and it's consistently fine. Now it's breaking every pallet. I'm like, what's happening?
00:23:30
Speaker
Are you plunge, not plunging, but are you doing a tight helical interpolation down and then, and then blowing the hole out at the floor level? Or are you just going down like a ramp or a bore strategy around the sidewalls? I can't remember. With stock to lead for- Yeah. Okay. It's not a big hole, like one to five hole 93,000 mil. It's not a lot of-
00:23:55
Speaker
If you aren't doing this, I would consider trying effectively plunging down in the middle. Don't plunge. I mean, do a very minor helical ramp diameter, but basically get the tool down to a Z plane, whether it's the floor of your part or not, meaning you may still want to come back and do a minor cleanup pass.
00:24:12
Speaker
If you come down and then you start interpolating out, you're going to allow the tool to cut with the side of the flute and not the face, which is better in terms of cut geometry. And it's going to be better in terms of much better in terms of chip evacuation. And I would guess you're breaking that tool because of recutting chips. Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I've thought about plumbing through spindle coolant and like flushing through the collet. But I don't have through spindle coolant at this time.
00:24:41
Speaker
Do you have through air? I do.
00:24:44
Speaker
I don't, it's not public. Yeah. I mean, you could try it, but you, okay. You still want, the problem is you still want coolant for time. And so mixing, mixing air and coolant just tends to do. I think would clear chips fairly well. Um, I tried to think of a system where I could like tee off of my main coolant pump into the through spin the line and like flip back and forth with the solenoid. Um, so I planned that out, but it got complicated and expensive.
00:25:13
Speaker
Then I was like, maybe I should just get a separate pump, a second pump. Can't you just pay the right people to do that? Well, I think the right solution is to get a second pump. But don't DIY. Yeah.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, this is your, this is your, this is your, this puts some food on the table, this machine. Um, there are, in fact, unfortunately I've heard of DMG machines where somebody did something, I think it was kind of a user mistake, but there was a problem where the, um, spindle blew back up into the coolant blew back up into the spindle bearings and spindle bearings all last very long when that happens. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, so I don't want to do this wrong. But it could help. Because the machine does have the road reunion at the top of the spindle. And there's a hose leading out the back. And it could be easy.
00:26:12
Speaker
But I would still, I don't know how to say this, through spindle coolant can help, but it's not necessarily, it's a support. It's a supporting part of the solution. It's not the solution. I still think the tool path is important here. I mean, unless you've got a through spindle coolant end mill, which don't do that, good grief, those are expensive. And I don't think they generally come that small. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure somebody makes it that small, but it's silly.
00:26:36
Speaker
But I mean, I've got a good steady stream of coolant hitting the tool, and the hole is not that deep.
Addressing Tool Breakage Challenges
00:26:45
Speaker
Right. It's kind of best case. But yeah, I'd say it probably is recutting chips consistently. And the tool is used in a bunch of different places. So I have to kind of analyze where exactly is the problem. So I'm looking at all that, right?
00:27:03
Speaker
We also like on job shop jobs or one-offs when we do stuff like this, I will end up having Jared or whoever runs the part program it in like two or three different ops just to force the retract. Yeah.
00:27:18
Speaker
because it's kind of coming up out of it. So if you think about that hole having the taper to it, come in and rough out 50% of that remaining material, do a retract that flushes the chips out and come back in, do a little bit more work. I mean, it's going to have minimal amounts of cycle time. I can try that easily. Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
drain the swimming pool. That's a great idea. Because when I'm cutting the floor and making it flat, it's making small chips. And when I'm cutting the walls, it's making longer chips. Right? Mm hmm. So yeah, get rid of the small chips, and then the longer chips might go up, you know, flush better. But make those two separate ops. I like that. Yeah, I could try that for sure. Yeah, easy solution. You know what I love seeing?
00:28:12
Speaker
these Higbee Threads you're posting about. Dude, I thought Higbee Threads were just a different style of Crest Root or something, but that's, I don't know, maybe it is, but what you're posting about is this kind of really... Oh yeah, you don't know about this? Fill it in the... I don't. It's late to speak. Don't worry about it. Yeah, sorry. Unsubscribe.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah, so a Higbee thread is like when you make a thread, the first thread is usually sharp or pointed or, you know, aggressive or flops over or kind of gross. But then Higbee is like where you take, imagine a parting tool and you pretend it's a threading tool and you thread that first little thread and then you retract. So it's actually, it's just creating this flat that then kind of waves up.
00:28:59
Speaker
and leads out and makes that first start blunt. So it's called hit me thread or blunt start thread. And apparently, Legend Goes, it was developed for firefighter hose couplings. And if you do that on both sides, male and female, then they will always go together in the moment of panic and never cross thread. And it's a sweet idea. And it makes for a really clean thread. Now, Phil brought it up in our WhatsApp chat this morning. So it was like a perfect time to talk about it.
00:29:28
Speaker
And as I was holding this Regal Fix nut that I posted on my Instagram stories, that has Higbee on both sides, which I'd never really seen before. And I was like, I need to do this. Which appears just to set the record straight, appears to have been done on a, ready for it? Yelling machine. Or it could be a lathe with turning, like milling attachments. Give me a mill. Lathe mill.
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah, turn mill, turn mill. Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
No, Higbee threads, and Lawrence had posted about his hack in HSM works to use a traditional lathe type tooling to do the Higbee on the start, which looked super cool. I understand it now much better because I thought it was more, I don't know, just changing how you turn the first thread off afterwards. It's like a post process to your threading, but now seeing the picture you started, you just smile like every thread should be Higbee.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah, and guys that are drinking the Kool-Aid, they're like every thread I program gets programmed with this and you get good and fast at it if you have kind of the setup for it. I don't do it. I haven't done it much lately, but I've certainly played with it for the past 10 years.
00:30:44
Speaker
And now as we're making pen parts with lots of threads on them, I'm like, this is clearly the full grim small way to do it. I need to get this right. It reminds me back when we were designing the strike mark target and we were young and trying to watch the bill of materials cost. And our electrical engineer guy was like,
00:31:04
Speaker
He sent the thing over and there was a fuse in it and the fuse and the wiring harness and the additional work to assemble that in was a couple bucks or something. I was like, do we have to use a fuse? His response was, there are people who use fuses and there are people who will use fuses. It's like, okay. That's a great quote.
00:31:27
Speaker
So how do you put a Higbee on the backside with, well, shouldn't you be able to program it with a on a label? I don't think so because the threading off usually likes to go to X depth, pause for a second and then move in. And then you can retract really quick. But if you go in and dwell at the back of the thread, then you're just screwing up the whole back of the thread. You know what I mean? You have to be able to thread from back to front. Um,
00:31:56
Speaker
Oh, so does it actually, it has to know where your thread, it's not just a dumb operation where you're poking a tool and then regardless of the encoder values matters of where you. Well, you can thread back to front. So that might be the solution, but then you need a lot of clearance room behind the bed. Sure.
00:32:17
Speaker
Well, and I don't think in Fusion, this is a really interesting question. I don't think in Fusion you can have two separate threading operations that have the same, that are clocked. I think the machine clocks it, because the spindle has an orientation, a home.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, but it's, and I've done a lot more thread milling on this side, but thread milling, one of the things I don't like is if you change your height planes on thread milling or some other, certain other variables, you've lost the ability to chase the thread or it's your control point or your starting point that holds. And the way to hack the Higbee thread is to change your starting point because like a one inch long thread might have, it might not be, um,
00:33:02
Speaker
your start and your finish might not be at the same spot. They might be like rotated. Sure. So you just have to with it until it looks right. Um, right. Well, once you get it dialed in, it's awesome because it's so much, so much wind for very little, like looking at this regal fix, not it is perfect. It's flawless. It's gorgeous. Um, they didn't know what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, what else are I going to ask you about?
00:33:30
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Hey, what do you think about Phil's question? This is really interesting. If you have 10 pallets on a five axis automation machine cell, and you're doing five op ones and five op twos, do you do five and five or do you alter? I was thinking about that. And I think it depends on a lot of variables, like
00:33:56
Speaker
what the loading time is like, what parts you need. Um, if you're just going to walk away and have it done, have it do all 10 and then you come back and they're all done, then it kind of doesn't matter. But if you want to actually pull them like, wow, while they're finished, I would definitely go AB AB AB. Um, but if you don't care that it doesn't matter aside from like minor tool change efficiencies or something like that. Um,
00:34:21
Speaker
But yeah, I think about that for my future too. If slash when I get a palletized five axis, I want to flow parts through it. Um, I don't want to machine a hundred blades in a row and then switch to handles and then machine a hundred handles in a row. It doesn't work. Um, so I want to work piece flow this as much as possible.
00:34:41
Speaker
I wonder with Phil in general too, are you offline loading? So you have 10 pallets. I think he does the fifth axis rock lock stuff. So if you have 10 in the machine, then hopefully, and these aren't cheap, but hopefully you have 10 offline, so you're able to do those. So there's a lot that if you break it down, are you talking about setting up? Are you talking about the ergonomics of what tools you're using as you lock and open and close fixtures and parts?
00:35:09
Speaker
Cause I like this idea of like pulling off finished parts, but if it's one, two, one, two, you've also got to think about what's your first.
00:35:18
Speaker
Um, cause if you, it's like that, if you ever run multi pallets, mostly you do, we do a lot of like our mod vices are run across three or four vices. Well, as you phase out a run, you've got to repost that cam each time, as you go from four to three to two to one vice, you finish that last send up your whatever you said to. Yeah. Um, so you don't have any op two parts when you do that first initial run. Hmm.
00:35:45
Speaker
Yeah, I guess we deal with that kind of a lot. And I've played with my code to be a little bit smarter. So the probe comes in and it goes, oh, there's no blades over here. So don't even worry about those. Just skip that and only machine the ones that are there. So you can float parts through without really wasting the time or having to repost anything.
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's really nice. Which leads me to my next question for you. I remember a long time ago you mentioned your shipping setup where you have like a, or your photography setup for shipping. So you have like the camera that's wirelessly connected or whatever to the computer, then you have a computer there with the light box and everything's just set.
00:36:27
Speaker
right? So Erin is currently in Hawaii, enjoying life, which is awesome. So our normal flow is I check the knives, I make sure they're good, they feel good, everything's there. And then Erin does the photography and puts them up on the website. So while she's gone, I'm doing all that, which is great. And
00:36:46
Speaker
I thought instead of batch working this, let's try a complete one piece flow setup. Let me check the knife, take the pictures, put it in the box, like put in the case, take a picture of the case, and then
00:36:59
Speaker
and then put the pictures onto my Google Drive and then batch post them on the website once I'm done with all the photography. So it's like, yeah, this is feeling good. This is good. And I wrote down, I actually wrote down a process list, which was nice. And then, so I do that for two days. And the first day I made a minor Royal screw up.
00:37:20
Speaker
And I got two knives mixed up on the website. So that the knife that the customer thought they were buying is not the one they were buying. And I was like, Oh, my God, I emailed the customer right away. And both guys, and you know, we're working on fixing it, whatever I'll make, right. But huge issue with my new system, right? Because I got the folders mixed up for which which knife went in which folder and
00:37:46
Speaker
Oh, but that has to do with the lag between moving from the work to the Google Drive and then the website and all that. I batched it too. I took pictures of knife number 2018 and then put them into a folder. Then I took pictures of knife number 2019 and I put them in the 2018 folder accidentally. Then I got mixed up. Right.
00:38:09
Speaker
Both of those two knives got screwed up. So then I was thinking, well, what if we had a cheap computer at the shipping station and I can fully one-piece flow this? Check the knife, take the pictures, post it on the website, move on. You know, like one at a time. And then you're invested in that until it's done. And I was like, oh, that's the next step. I like that.
00:38:33
Speaker
What do you think? I love it. I think I'd have to learn a little bit more about the process. There is a hassle factor that we also deal with. The new project, the elusive new project, which we should have some big updates on soon because we're finishing up the front end, we're skinning it, putting the graphics on the site, all
Optimizing Photography Workflow
00:38:56
Speaker
that. We've been using that camera setup, that photo
00:39:00
Speaker
table and we actually just redid it as well. I got tired of walking to it. I found that that was a subconscious thing I didn't like. So I was thinking, well, maybe I'll just batch up the work like you are the analogy here being three, four knives. And I was like, no, that's totally the wrong way to do it. And so I bought a second one of the Uline movable tables that I now use as my main desk.
00:39:29
Speaker
And I love it. It's small. It's only 24 by 48, so there's no extra room to leave junk on it. It has an iMac, or not an iMac, a Mac Mini with a monitor on a support arm, so the monitor is up off the tabletop.
00:39:48
Speaker
The left side has the keyboard mouse and a little bit area of work. The right side has the photo box and then we use Noga, the Noga arms to hold the lights in the right place. So we got rid of those Chinese $1 tripods that always fall around. I put another battery backup on it so I can wheel the thing around with the computer staying powered on.
00:40:14
Speaker
It is phenomenal. I think the analogy to your scenario there is get away. What I also didn't like was the lag time of when you take 17 pictures with the DSLR, it actually takes three or four minutes to upload to Google Drive, which is annoying. Don't do that anymore. Leave the computer logged in. You can check stuff when it's in front of you. Maybe you don't finish it. Go ahead.
00:40:41
Speaker
So how do you transfer the pictures from the camera to the computer instantly? We bought a Canon DSLR, a cheapo. It's like, well, cheap for a DSLR. It's like four or five hundred bucks. I can get you the model number. But and then I think we had to buy the cable for it, which was maybe 20 bucks. And it just plugs in and Canon. There actually isn't even an SD card on the camera.
00:41:04
Speaker
It is, you know, the SD card, there's no SD card, and then this just tethers to the camera. And then we use the free Canon software of Rebel something. And you don't even touch the camera, you can control all the ISO, the focus, all that with a live preview. Wow, focus on everything.
00:41:22
Speaker
So you keep a tripod in a stationary position. So we use a Manfrotto arm, which is kind of like a Noga arm, but maybe 24 inches in with a cup. It's got two, three, I guess it would be three joints on it. And that way the camera is rigidly mounted, but it's mounted to the tabletop. So it's, it's actually better than a tripod in some respects. And then the whole thing just wheels around. It's great.
00:41:50
Speaker
I'll see the picture when we hang up. When I head into the shop this morning. What was the Uline table? I'm just going to look it up now. 24 by 48. Yeah, I go to tables. They fold up, which isn't important to me, but it was the size I wanted. It was 235 bucks. I can find it from there. Here, I just bought another one, or I bought that one. It'll be in my email.
00:42:18
Speaker
Uline shipping confirmation. Mobile training table, it's item number H-6278, and then GR for gray. Oh, that's really cool, actually. It looks like an office table. That's kind of cool. Sweet. Okay.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, Aaron wanted to build a video computer, so that was a really fun experience for her. We picked out all the parts and she did all the research herself, and then she put it together over the weekend and had a lot of fun. And then we bought a pre-built
00:43:00
Speaker
beast of a computer for downstairs for the shop. Not that crazy, but he was like, nice 1200 Canadian for the tower and just got it all set up. Got a monitor on a arm thingy so that it's not sitting on the table. And already I love it. Like we got internet to it yesterday. I bought it and then I plugged it in and I'm like, where's my internet?
00:43:24
Speaker
What the heck? This thing doesn't have Wi-Fi? Oh my gosh. That's funny. Yeah, it's just a cable to it. It wasn't too hard. But it was one of those things like every phone, every laptop has Wi-Fi, every device known to mankind has Wi-Fi, and then I buy this new computer and it doesn't. It's funny. Go ahead. So this is- I was thinking it's nice, finally, to be able to invest in these computers and efficiencies.
00:43:52
Speaker
We need more computers. I mean, we're somewhat a tech-based company, you know, with the event and the programming and all that stuff. And it's stupid that I really only have my nice laptop downstairs, and I'm usually on it.
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah, be careful though. I agree with this idea of don't let it be a hurdle or a burden, but I was thinking that for me switching between the two offices at the shop, kind of my private office within the shop floor, I was thinking the two computers and thank God I thought of the rolling desk because every time you had a computer, it's just one more thing to maintain and to deal with. And yes, it's good that we have a shipping computer, but otherwise I'm trying to, and it's actually funny to be honest at the hospital, spent
00:44:32
Speaker
six days at the hospital. It's funny to watch how they handle workflows and with the advent of, well, electronic medical records, there's no more charts. It's all on the computer and they have these carts and they're ergonomic. They can stand and walk. They can move down. They must have freaking car batteries in them because they last for 10 hours without power being plugged in. Even the way they
00:44:56
Speaker
I'm totally stealing this. They have your typical 110 computer cord, but it's coiled like the old phone cable. And I was like, oh my gosh, I got to get one of those because they have this ergonomic hook so that it stays taught and is high up. So when you need to plug it in, it's really easy to do so because right now I just kind of drag my stiff cable around. And so it's funny to take all these nuggets away from how they handle
00:45:20
Speaker
Love it. That. I loved it. So we got to figure out now is so the UMC 750, I'm going to use it, Jared's going to use it and Ed's going to use it for now.
Investing in Software for Efficiency
00:45:32
Speaker
Maybe more. So I was sort of on the fence about complete.
00:45:39
Speaker
And then a friend who has a similar maybe identical machine just spent a pretty good chunk of change having some work done to a very, very new UMC because an operator didn't disclose the bump.
00:46:01
Speaker
And so I thought, why am I doing this? The worst time to buy Camplete is after you've also spent the money. You're just saying about, you're either going to do it now or do it later from your strike mark days.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yeah, there's people who use fuses and that will use fuses, right? Right. I mean, literally the only reason to not... Well, there's two reasons to weigh on something like Campolite. Number one is the investment. Number two is the time, the training. It takes time to learn it and so forth. But everyone I've talked to who uses it, which not that many people, but I know Lockwood has, they have some access to it or seats to it. Phil is using it regularly. The guys I talked to at Metzera are big fans of it. And I'm just like,
00:46:45
Speaker
When I look at the past week being gone for my wife, which hopefully doesn't happen again, but I want anybody to be able to say, let's try this in the UMC and not ... Yeah, and the mistakes that we've made on our three axis verticals, most of the time when we make a mistake, it's a very, very honest mistake. It's proof that it happens even to ... I wouldn't say we're the best of the best, but it happens to people regardless of your intent.
00:47:14
Speaker
The question is, I got to ask how much they charge for more licenses because I'm hoping that we can have maybe more than one because we're not necessarily trying to use them concurrently. But my point is, what's that workflow? Do we finish up a fusion program and then walk up to the, quote unquote, camcly computer that's right next to the UMC and do a confirmation? No, for ongoing use of the UMC.
00:47:39
Speaker
Or does, do Jared and I each have complete on our computers. So as we're posting from our respective computers, that just becomes a target. I can't believe about that. Um, I'm sure that's kind of common. Yeah. I'm it's right. Or we could do like a VPN remote desktop type of thing. Yeah. When I go five axis, it's a given. I think Matsura won't sell a Matsura without it. Um, or some version of it, whatever, but right.
00:48:07
Speaker
but yeah, they have it for my Nakamura, but I'm like, man, if I was changing setups and doing job shop and new stuff every day, then it would make a lot of sense, but I don't. And currently nobody else really grims the Nakamura, you know, fully. It's just me. So I understand it and you know, I have a handle on it, but it definitely has its place. Whereas Amish does five axes work or it does, and they don't have the simulation. That's not to say it's not a good idea, but
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, Amish is a one man shop right now at least. So that's in my opinion different. And Lawrence is Lawrence. I don't know. I would. He's very... Yeah, exactly. I know. He's very good. He does. I give him... I'm actually looking forward to borrowing, assuming my wife's continues to do well. I get so good to go on that trip here in jeez, two, three weeks. So I'm excited to see Lauren shop.
00:49:01
Speaker
What's going on today this week? Um, we've got some visitors coming by. They might even be here actually. I'm hiding up in the office right now while we're doing our podcast. Um, yeah, cool guys. Local shop literally two blocks down the street. They make firefighter accessories. They make this tool called the snagger that a firefighter will use to like break windows and
00:49:25
Speaker
bust out all the glass and also use on the hoses and fittings and stuff. Super cool young guys, modus engineering or modus something, M-O-T-I-S. Okay. Yeah, we went to see their shop. They bought a used year 2000 FANUC Robo drill with pallet changing. It's pretty sick.
00:49:45
Speaker
So also, yeah, they're here now. I'll go see them in a few minutes. And running production, going good. Should be getting back to pen parts any day now, maybe tomorrow. And then to get our first batch of 50 pens done. Super excited. Awesome. And then I've got to order a Swiss. We're going to make that official. Yeah, that's so cool. That's awesome. So like I said, things. Yeah, I'm going to be.
00:50:11
Speaker
Good for you. That's great. I certainly wouldn't wish lung cancer on anybody, but I'll tell you, it's funny to me in some sense that it was a year ago that I had the Australia trip, which forced me to
00:50:29
Speaker
Yes, but it was that time where I was like, okay, I can't manage the business being away for two plus weeks. Like I can't ship orders. I can't be doing purchasing and so forth. And so that was a really big step leading up to it. And then during the trip and it went quite well. And so a year later, you know, that has gotten even further along. And so it's a good thing. Like today I'm going to go in some, but I'm not, I'm going in today.
00:50:56
Speaker
more like, what would you call it? This isn't the right term, but an absentee owner. I'm going in today to say hi. Yeah, kind of. I know Julie's got some footage for me to review, and I'll do some other stuff. But it's different. And I'm OK with that right now. It's really good. A year ago, you're like, now's the time. We have to be able to go away for two weeks, I think it was.
00:51:24
Speaker
It, it might've felt a little frivolous. It might've felt a little like, I know you were excited to set up the business in a way that it could run by itself, but you know, fast forward a year later when you need to go away for a week and the systems are in place, right? Like beautiful, like congratulations. That's awesome. Um, yeah, it's a good feeling. Yeah.
00:51:48
Speaker
Hey, go, dude, go hang out with your visitors. I'll see you next Wednesday. Sounds great. Thanks, bud. Take care. Have a great day.