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8 Chloe Seager | Literary Agent and Author
432 Plays4 years ago
Children's/YA literary agent and YA author, Chloe Seager joins us to talk all about balancing her life as an author and literary agent. She tells us all about her own journey with submitting, Editing Emma, to agents under a fake name as well as how she approaches submissions, her clients and the path to publication.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:01
Speaker
These are your notes about what we're going to say.
00:00:04
Speaker
What does it say?
00:00:04
Speaker
I thought it would be a good... I didn't even get to idea.
00:00:10
Speaker
Maybe I can just ask you the question.
00:00:14
Speaker
It's going well.
00:00:14
Speaker
It's going really well.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm Emma.
00:00:23
Speaker
And I'm Jamie, right?
00:00:25
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Jamie.
00:00:27
Speaker
And we're joined by Chloe Seeger, who is a literary agent at Madeleine Milburn and the author of Editing Emma and the Sequel Friendship Fails of Emma Nash.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to the show, Chloe.
00:00:43
Speaker
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi, Chloe.
00:00:45
Speaker
Thank you for joining us.
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's so nice to have you.
00:00:49
Speaker
So just to
Chloe's Journey into Agenting and Writing
00:00:50
Speaker
kick off, so you're an agent and an author.
00:00:52
Speaker
So if we go right back to start with, which one came first?
00:00:57
Speaker
Were you always writing books before you worked as an agent?
00:01:01
Speaker
Oh, people always ask me this and it's such an interesting one because it kind of came at the same time.
00:01:07
Speaker
So I started...
00:01:10
Speaker
I started working in agenting and then a few months into my first job, I started writing my first book.
00:01:18
Speaker
So I would say that I've always just been interested in books and I just knew that I really wanted to start working in books.
00:01:26
Speaker
So I just did both at the same time.
00:01:28
Speaker
And then that's kind of how it happened.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:32
Speaker
So I wouldn't say that one really came before the other.
00:01:35
Speaker
Were you inspired, do you think, by agenting and seeing all of these new books working in that industry?
00:01:42
Speaker
Do you think that inspired you at all with your writing?
00:01:45
Speaker
I think I always knew that I wanted to write.
00:01:48
Speaker
And then I guess working in the industry, I definitely, I think I would have written a book had I not been working in the industry.
00:01:56
Speaker
But I think it definitely...
00:01:59
Speaker
makes you think, oh, seeing it from the other side, you know, oh, I could do this, you know.
00:02:02
Speaker
And I guess you have an insight into how it works and cover letters and you know what's going on on the other side.
00:02:12
Speaker
I think the submission process was probably slightly less daunting for me than maybe it is for other people who...
00:02:18
Speaker
I think the submission process can be shrouded in so much mystery for people who don't know, who haven't worked on the other side.
00:02:25
Speaker
And I think coming at it from both angles probably just made the whole thing a little bit less scary.
00:02:30
Speaker
So you did submit to agents?
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:35
Speaker
I submitted to agents.
00:02:36
Speaker
I did a little bit of research, just decided who I kind of liked the look of and who I thought might like the book.
00:02:44
Speaker
And then, yeah, submitted to about
00:02:46
Speaker
between five and 10 agents, which is always the advice that we give other people, that kind of number to start with.
00:02:52
Speaker
So yeah, I followed all my own advice.
00:02:54
Speaker
That's good.
00:02:56
Speaker
Although I cringe to think now, looking back at the submission letter, because I'd only been...
00:03:01
Speaker
working in agenting for a few months, really, when I started querying.
00:03:05
Speaker
So it was probably a terrible query letter, actually.
00:03:08
Speaker
Looking back, I bet I'd write a much better one now, but thankfully, I don't have to anymore.
00:03:13
Speaker
I would not want to represent myself.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say that.
00:03:17
Speaker
That would be very awkward.
00:03:18
Speaker
I would never represent myself.
Writing Under Pseudonyms and Lockdown Challenges
00:03:20
Speaker
As much as I love talking up my authors and championing them and talking about other people's books, I could never do that for myself.
00:03:28
Speaker
I think as well, you need the insight of someone else to say that, well, A, that it's worth representing and B, you know, to have the editorial insight and the
00:03:38
Speaker
the support the hand-holding the negotiating like I can't I'm I'm I don't mind asking publishers for more money for my authors but I think whenever people are discussing money on their own behalf it becomes a much more awkward conversation whereas it's just not as an agent so yeah yeah can't imagine I don't think any agents who are also authors represent themselves typically I think they always have another agent usually
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:07
Speaker
And actually I submitted under a fake name because I was meeting people at events and I didn't want them to feel awkward about rejecting me.
00:04:14
Speaker
I didn't want them to think, oh, that girl's book was terrible.
00:04:18
Speaker
God, don't want to run into her.
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:20
Speaker
What was your fake name?
00:04:22
Speaker
My fake name was Zoe.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:25
Speaker
Wow.
00:04:26
Speaker
Rhymes with Chloe because I'm really inventive.
00:04:29
Speaker
I actually, I read that a lot of other agents do.
00:04:33
Speaker
I think that Sam Copeland, who also writes an agent, I think he submitted under a fake name to his agent as well.
00:04:40
Speaker
I think it's just a kind of, you know, it's really awkward because you can't tell people you know what you really think.
00:04:48
Speaker
You can't, you know, if a friend sends me something, I would never be as straight with them as you can be.
00:04:56
Speaker
It's harder, isn't it?
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, when the relationship's there to start with, it can get difficult, I guess.
00:05:02
Speaker
And like you said, awkward.
00:05:03
Speaker
I guess being an agent can be obviously really all a consuming.
00:05:07
Speaker
Like you said earlier, you've been really busy today and I've got a million emails.
00:05:11
Speaker
So you're extremely busy.
00:05:13
Speaker
Can we expect a third appearance from Emma?
00:05:18
Speaker
And if so, how do you think you'll find the time to do it?
00:05:23
Speaker
Well, I've actually, I've written another book this year, but it's not an Emma book.
00:05:28
Speaker
So I'll be going out on submission again.
00:05:31
Speaker
But I'm actually, I've written an adult book.
00:05:34
Speaker
So I'm, you know, traitorous to the book.
00:05:38
Speaker
children's and YA genre but actually I think it's been quite nice writing something that because I work in children's and YA and I absolutely love it it's been quite nice writing something just in a slightly different genre as you say to get that separation I guess between sort of
00:06:00
Speaker
I mean, I love children's and YA.
00:06:01
Speaker
I just felt inspired to write something in a slightly different area.
00:06:05
Speaker
So that will be interesting.
00:06:07
Speaker
But yeah, finding some separation.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:09
Speaker
Finding the time is difficult.
00:06:11
Speaker
You are.
00:06:12
Speaker
Yes, you are right.
00:06:13
Speaker
But it's been easier in lockdown in one way because you have so much more time.
00:06:18
Speaker
Harder in another way, because I think it's hard to.
00:06:20
Speaker
feel creative and for sure have any inspiration yeah that's something we're hearing from everyone that we speak to definitely the kind of the squashing their creativity we're being trapped at home yeah definitely definitely I think some people find it really sort of
00:06:38
Speaker
like they're finding their focus to be really good in lockdown sometimes but then for it to be because they haven't got anything else to do maybe but then because of that it can wane a little bit and you end up watching Netflix or you know whatever you're doing as well so it can be really hard I've certainly been slower than I would have been I think normally I could finish a book because it's people always say oh how do you find the times you're agenting as well but I think for me it's just so I always write it's just always a thing that I
00:07:06
Speaker
do it doesn't feel like I'm finding time it just feels like something that happens you know yeah um as and when so and I normally I mean the Emma books the first one I finished in about two or three months I think it wasn't long on weekends around work and then but this one has taken me I think the best part of a year which is I think a normal amount of time anyway that's fine yeah
00:07:30
Speaker
But it's just that it's, it's, it was slower for me.
00:07:34
Speaker
Um, but yeah, as you say, it had just been so difficult speaking to all my authors, um, to find that inspiration and that headspace, even though you have a lot of physical time, it feels like you're, yeah, it feels like you have a lot of time to fill.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:50
Speaker
It feels very difficult.
00:07:51
Speaker
So it's a bit, it's a bit frustrating.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah.
Crafting the Perfect Submission Package
00:07:55
Speaker
So as an agent and also a published author, you've probably got a lot of insights from, as you said, both sides of the curtain.
00:08:10
Speaker
Something that...
00:08:11
Speaker
Emma and I, I know, have discussed at length, as well as many of my friends who are writers both with and without agents, is talk about entering the market as a debut novelist.
00:08:22
Speaker
What do you think it's like from being able to see from both sides here?
00:08:27
Speaker
What is it like for people trying to get their debuts out there?
00:08:30
Speaker
Is it much harder than it has been?
00:08:34
Speaker
Do you mean kind of in a post-COVID environment?
00:08:38
Speaker
I mean, either like post COVID or just, you know, the way that the industry is going.
00:08:45
Speaker
I think debuts, there's always, I think,
00:08:50
Speaker
debuts, there's always this, I feel, mystery, not mystery.
00:08:55
Speaker
You can cut this bit when you go back and editing while I search for the right word.
00:08:59
Speaker
I think there's always this kind of myth, that's the word I'm looking for, that it's harder being a debut.
00:09:06
Speaker
And in many respects, it is.
00:09:09
Speaker
On the other side of it, I think that publishers are always excited for a debut.
00:09:15
Speaker
There's so much hope in a debut.
00:09:17
Speaker
I think that it's...
00:09:18
Speaker
you can get so excited behind it and you don't know what's going to happen yet.
00:09:22
Speaker
And I think publishers will always be looking for debuts because of that.
00:09:27
Speaker
I think that actually it's harder as an author if you've had a book out and it hasn't gone maybe as well as you'd hoped.
00:09:34
Speaker
I think then it can be harder to actually get another contract or to maybe then think, okay, I'm going to take it in a different direction.
00:09:44
Speaker
I'm going to publish something under a new name.
00:09:46
Speaker
I think that obviously the ideal scenario,
00:09:49
Speaker
is probably if you've had a book published and it has gone well then great then you know your career starts really building but I think um actually being a debut is it can be a challenging time but it's maybe not as challenging actually as if you've had a book out and it hasn't gone that well so I think there's this real sort of um
00:10:09
Speaker
you know, belief that getting a book deal is the hardest thing, but actually getting a book deal is just the kind of beginning of a journey that can go in many different directions and can have very different challenges along the way.
00:10:23
Speaker
So, but yes, being a debut is obviously is difficult.
00:10:29
Speaker
And I think in COVID especially, you know, people are really turning towards,
00:10:34
Speaker
known brands people want familiarity and comfort and also the way you would pick up a debut is by going into a shop and maybe browsing we don't have that anymore we just people are just heading to the internet and and maybe just picking up the names they do know so i think this year in particular has been very hard for debuts yeah
00:10:54
Speaker
Right.
00:10:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:55
Speaker
Well, there's some, some positives there and some, and some negatives at the same time.
00:11:00
Speaker
I think it's a positive in that often when people are like, oh, it's so hard to get on the ladder.
00:11:05
Speaker
I sometimes actually think that.
00:11:08
Speaker
it's nice to hear that people are always looking for debuts and can always be excited about debuts.
00:11:12
Speaker
So I hope that that, you know, gives some positivity to the querying process.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:11:19
Speaker
Definitely.
00:11:19
Speaker
For people who are starting to feel uninspired by their piles of rejections.
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:28
Speaker
Let's talk about submissions now.
00:11:32
Speaker
For a lot of people, it's basically learning an entire new skill set is learning how to submit to agents.
00:11:43
Speaker
And especially as you say, like so many people in lockdown have decided to start writing or started submitting to you so that you have this swollen email box of submissions.
00:11:56
Speaker
At Madeleine Milburn, you ask for quite a standard sort of submission package.
00:12:03
Speaker
It's a one-page synopsis, a cover letter with a short kind of pitch and blurb in it, and the first three chapters or approximately 10,000 words.
00:12:13
Speaker
Of those things, for you personally, which do you pick up first and then where do you put the most weight in terms of importance?
00:12:25
Speaker
So I think I'm possibly a little different to some other agents in that I'm very pitch focused.
00:12:32
Speaker
So I think most agents start with the letter.
00:12:36
Speaker
And if you're intrigued by the letter, then you'll open up the attachments.
00:12:41
Speaker
I think just given that, as I was saying earlier, at the moment, I'm getting about 400 a week just for myself.
00:12:47
Speaker
So sometimes, you know, if there's a letter and I think absolutely, I just know off the bat that that wouldn't be for me.
00:12:56
Speaker
There might be occasions where you don't maybe even open the attachments just because of the sheer volume.
00:13:01
Speaker
And so, yes, the letter is very important.
00:13:05
Speaker
But that would only be in a case where I really thought I'm not the right fit here.
00:13:10
Speaker
Like, you know, if it's...
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:12
Speaker
Something that I just know a hundred percent is not going to be for me.
00:13:15
Speaker
Um, so I start with the letter or if there's something in the letter that really puts me off, um, you know, uh, and then I would, I, this is where I differ from most other agents.
00:13:27
Speaker
I think is that I probably go to the synopsis next.
00:13:30
Speaker
Um, I like, um, being able to picture what the book could be, like how I could sell it, what the pitch is, what the book is.
00:13:41
Speaker
And then I go to the writing to see if it measures up.
00:13:44
Speaker
So it's kind of like a three-stage process for me.
00:13:48
Speaker
Does the letter intrigue me to want to open the materials?
00:13:51
Speaker
And then when I look at the synopsis, could I see this as something that I could sell?
00:13:56
Speaker
And then the writing and the connection has to be there.
00:14:00
Speaker
So even if it's the most marketable idea in the world, if
Managing Submissions and Evaluating Work
00:14:03
Speaker
I don't connect with the writing and I don't connect with the voice and I'm not in love with the characters, it's still a no.
00:14:08
Speaker
But that sort of for me almost comes after.
00:14:12
Speaker
Like because I have been in a scenario before where I've started reading and I've loved it.
00:14:17
Speaker
I've loved the voice.
00:14:17
Speaker
I love the characters.
00:14:18
Speaker
But if I can't pitch it, then there's no sort of no point.
00:14:22
Speaker
If you see what I mean.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:24
Speaker
So I'm very.
00:14:25
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:14:26
Speaker
I'm very pitch led, but I think other agents might be horrified by that.
00:14:29
Speaker
They might, they might, I think I know other agents who start with the connection and then think about how they can sell it.
00:14:36
Speaker
But for me, sometimes even if I'm completely in love with something, I still might not be able to sell it.
00:14:42
Speaker
So I, you know, with the volume of submissions, I don't want to get too attached to something that then I can't, I can't, I think I can't sell it.
00:14:51
Speaker
Sure.
00:14:51
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:14:53
Speaker
So you kind of jump on the synopsis early, where there are some agencies that don't even ask for a synopsis.
00:14:59
Speaker
I think they actually just do a cover letter in 10,000.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:04
Speaker
The synopsis is a daunting thing to write.
00:15:06
Speaker
I think everyone hates writing their synopsis.
00:15:08
Speaker
When it comes to it, do you want every single spoiler and little detail in there or do you just want the bare bones outline?
00:15:18
Speaker
I want the spoilers.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:20
Speaker
I mean, not every single plot point, but obviously if it's a thriller and someone withholds the twist from me,
00:15:28
Speaker
That's the thing when you're looking at this number of submissions.
00:15:30
Speaker
We do not have time to read the whole book, every book, to get to those plot points.
00:15:37
Speaker
So I need to be assured from the synopsis that it's going in a direction that I'm going to like, and therefore that will...
00:15:44
Speaker
give me the confidence to read on if you know I can't tell you I think when I started I was the kind of agent who thought I'm not going to look at the synopsis I'm just going to read and then the amount of times I'll be reading a romance and about three quarters of the way through an alien will pop up and I'll think I've you know and that you just don't you just don't it's just a time constraint is
00:16:07
Speaker
Literally, we need to know how the plot's going to go.
00:16:12
Speaker
And then we still want to read it and be swept up in that book.
00:16:15
Speaker
But I think just knowing that from the synopsis, you can tell that someone knows how to craft the novel and that it's going in a direction that you are on board with before you put in all that time.
00:16:26
Speaker
Because if you think about how long it takes to read an entire book and when you're getting 400 a week, you need that kind of framework.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:38
Speaker
And speaking of time constraints, presumably that, you know, this is quite a standardized formula, the one page synopsis, the pitch cover letter, the first three chapters, 10,000 words.
00:16:46
Speaker
That is, do you feel like that, you know, 10,000 words plus the accompanying stuff, that is the kind of shortest amount that you need to really get a grip with the material?
00:17:00
Speaker
be honest i tend to know pretty quickly i usually know from the first chapter and like once i've looked at and i've liked the letter and i i think the synopsis is good and i normally i know quite quickly if i'm into the voice so i even think that the first 10 000 words is maybe even longer than we need like for me to kind of know i mean it depends um what kind of book sometimes there might be multiple perspectives so it takes a few chapters for you to
00:17:30
Speaker
meet all the voices or sure um but yeah generally i think you do get that sense quite quickly and once you've when you when you are reading it and you get that quick sense what what what is the thing for you is it as you know as we hear a lot of people say is it almost all about the voice you because if you've read the pitch and the synopsis you're basically sold on the concept at that point yeah
00:17:53
Speaker
So you're then just looking for voice, right?
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:56
Speaker
A hundred percent voice, um, skill.
00:17:59
Speaker
And, you know, there's as well, there can be a really great concept, but someone might not have executed it very well.
00:18:05
Speaker
And that I think, but voice, yes, is the most important thing.
00:18:10
Speaker
I will work with someone on a book for up to a year.
00:18:12
Speaker
If I love the concept and the voice, you know, we can, we can sort out the plot.
00:18:17
Speaker
We can sort out the structure.
00:18:19
Speaker
Um, having just said that I'm,
00:18:21
Speaker
you know, the synopsis is important.
00:18:23
Speaker
That's just to check that it's not completely off base.
00:18:26
Speaker
Like there's a lot that we can do.
00:18:28
Speaker
It's just to check that it's not going in a completely random direction.
00:18:34
Speaker
But yeah, if I love the voice and the concept, I will work on something for a long time with someone.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:40
Speaker
That's good.
00:18:41
Speaker
Well, that's good to know.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's really good to know.
00:18:42
Speaker
I had a couple of quickfire questions about submissions.
00:18:45
Speaker
Sure.
00:18:47
Speaker
Because since we're debunking myths, a lot of people in the community are very worried about resubmitting to agents.
00:18:58
Speaker
How do you feel about, like if I sent you a draft of something that I'd written last year and I send you the new version a few months later or like a year later,
00:19:09
Speaker
Does that, do you often, do you remember things like that or do you think it's a good thing?
00:19:13
Speaker
I think it's fine.
00:19:14
Speaker
I usually do remember.
00:19:18
Speaker
Um, or if I don't entirely remember something, once I start reading, something will feel familiar to me.
00:19:24
Speaker
But I think if someone's done significant revisions or they found a new way to pitch it, um, then, you know, that's fine to have another go with it.
00:19:32
Speaker
Um,
Agent-Author Dynamics and Representation Process
00:19:33
Speaker
personally, I don't have a problem with that.
00:19:36
Speaker
And my other question was, you mentioned that you suggest people send to five to 10 agents.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker
Do you, I mean, obviously you don't want people carpet bombing and just sending to everything.
00:19:50
Speaker
But is there anything in sort of exclusively submitting to you?
00:19:56
Speaker
Oh, I mean, when someone does exclusively submit to me, I definitely pay more attention because it means that someone's engaged with my list and they think we could be a good fit and they've done their research.
00:20:09
Speaker
And yeah, I definitely pay more attention.
00:20:11
Speaker
I don't expect someone to submit exclusively to me.
00:20:15
Speaker
But I think even with a select number, you know, sometimes there have been occasions where
00:20:22
Speaker
someone said, oh, I've had X number of call-ins.
00:20:25
Speaker
And whilst, you know, okay, this person's had 20 manuscript call-ins in two days,
00:20:30
Speaker
whilst that's exciting on some level, it also makes me think, God, how many agents did you send this to in the first instance?
00:20:36
Speaker
You're casting a very wide net.
00:20:38
Speaker
And I think it's so much about a relationship and a fit.
00:20:42
Speaker
And that's not just from our side, that's from the author's side as well.
00:20:46
Speaker
I like to know that they've considered why I might be a good fit for them, why we might work together, that they like my work, that they're not just kind of
00:20:56
Speaker
desperately searching for anyone who will take it on I think um yeah I mean that's it's it's if I love something and someone submitted to 50 agents I'm still going to go for it but there is something that's yeah I think does it does elevate a submission when someone's targeted their letter
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:21:19
Speaker
I mean, you mentioned that you personally obviously get a lot of submissions as well as the agency itself.
00:21:26
Speaker
But do you ever look through authors who are shortlisted or longlisted for competitions?
00:21:32
Speaker
Is that somewhere you would actively look for new clients?
00:21:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:37
Speaker
Yeah, I do.
00:21:39
Speaker
We do occasionally also look at things, you know, like pitch wars and certain showcases and write a mentor.
00:21:46
Speaker
But yeah, I think that on prizes, I just, it can be a good way of finding things, but it doesn't matter.
00:21:55
Speaker
You know, I don't, ultimately, I don't care if someone's
00:22:00
Speaker
got a prize or been shortlisted or longlisted or I just want to I it's just for me just about the book really so it can it can be a good way of gaining visibility yeah to find stuff on shortlists but it's definitely not a necessity I find I find just as much stuff that just comes in the inbox that someone that people have had no prior writing experience at all yeah so definitely it's not a requirement
00:22:26
Speaker
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
00:22:28
Speaker
And do you think there's a big difference between how the literary agencies are run and should that maybe factor into people's research when it comes to submitting or is it all about the agent?
00:22:40
Speaker
And like you said, the agency is kind of just a geography thing.
00:22:46
Speaker
No, I think it's both, actually.
00:22:48
Speaker
I think it depends on what kind of book you've written.
00:22:51
Speaker
If you're a UK author and you've written a book with US appeal, for instance, you might want to submit to agencies that have good relationships with the states and who can submit directly over there.
00:23:02
Speaker
But you might want a UK agent because then you can meet up with them and be in the same country or...
00:23:08
Speaker
If you've written something that's very British focused, you might not care whether or not your agent has good relationships with the US.
00:23:16
Speaker
We at Madeleine Milburn, for instance, we have an in-house rights team.
00:23:19
Speaker
So we have an in-house film and TV.
00:23:21
Speaker
So we do everything in-house.
00:23:23
Speaker
And I think that's a really big plus, you know, to have all those teams in-house.
00:23:28
Speaker
And I think that's something that, you know, we're really, really proud of at the agency to,
00:23:32
Speaker
I think thinking about how your foreign rights are going to be handled, how your film and TV is going to be handled are really important factors.
00:23:40
Speaker
And obviously, you know, the connection with the agent, the agent themselves is probably the biggest factor, but there are lots of other things to consider about how your book's going to be sold.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
No, yeah, that's, that's great.
00:23:54
Speaker
And after you've offered someone personally like representation, what are the next steps after that?
00:24:01
Speaker
Well, it depends.
00:24:03
Speaker
Sometimes I offer someone representation and that person is just really sure that they want to sign with me and we had such a great connection and they just sign up and then we sort of start working on edits together and that's really lovely.
00:24:16
Speaker
Sometimes if they've had multiple offers, they might wait to meet everyone and then kind of make a decision, I guess.
00:24:24
Speaker
Or do you mean like once they've signed up with the agency?
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:27
Speaker
What are the steps after that and how do you personally work around it?
00:24:31
Speaker
Personally, I usually send an edit letter that kind of outlining my main thoughts on the manuscript.
00:24:39
Speaker
And then, I mean, it depends how people want to work.
00:24:42
Speaker
Sometimes we have creative brainstorms together.
00:24:45
Speaker
Some people just like to go away and work on the feedback and come back with a new draft.
00:24:49
Speaker
And yeah, we'll go through various rounds.
00:24:51
Speaker
And then we have an in-house editor at Madeleine Milburn.
00:24:54
Speaker
So I might give it to her and she might do edits on it as well.
00:24:58
Speaker
And then once it got to a certain...
00:25:01
Speaker
kind of level that we were happy with then we might I would start pitching to editors and let them know something really exciting was coming and then yeah we would go on submission which is pretty much a very similar process that authors have already done to agents but we're doing it on author's behalf to publishers exciting
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's in theory the exciting bit, right?
00:25:23
Speaker
But I imagine it can be just as difficult a process as submitting to agents in the first place.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think it can be, it's obviously a really stressful time and it's an anxiety, you know, it's a lot of anxiety and it's,
00:25:38
Speaker
you've been working on this book for so long and then it's, you know, it's going out to publishers.
00:25:43
Speaker
But I think hopefully having another person involved then who sort of is handling that for you, who you trust, it probably makes it slightly less stressful.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, like a team.
00:25:55
Speaker
Someone on your side.
00:25:58
Speaker
It's nice.
00:25:59
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:00
Speaker
And I think even if a book doesn't sell, you know, you've got an agent, you're halfway there.
00:26:06
Speaker
there you know you've you've done the querying process and you've got an agent and and that could be half the battle because certainly for me if a book doesn't sell to publishers first time around we'll work on something else yeah you know we'll um we'll and and it might work on the second book or even the third book right sure and yeah so you always try it sounds like you try and have a good relationship with
00:26:28
Speaker
with uh all of your authors so like that the agent author relationship is a very important one um how you know how regularly are you in contact with your authors um and like how often do you just kind of discuss ideas and and next next steps with what their books are doing
00:26:52
Speaker
So it really depends.
00:26:53
Speaker
I mean, you'll have times when you're literally speaking to authors like five times a day around publication or around submission.
00:27:02
Speaker
You know, if something's on submission and, you know, someone say you've got a preempt come in and you want to discuss what the best thing to do is and then you're keeping them up and then you might go to auction or at that point around submission, you're checking in.
00:27:14
Speaker
pretty regularly around publication every time there's a new bit of news or when covers come in or around edits, then you're talking.
00:27:25
Speaker
But there can also be long periods where there's really nothing to say and you're not...
00:27:29
Speaker
you're not communicating um at all i always think the strangest time is when you've done a deal um and you and you have all this flurry of activity and you might have had this auction you might have been speaking to someone every day and then you know you're just sitting there waiting for the contract and the edits from the publisher and there's really nothing else to do but it can feel this very strange anti-climax after this big exciting things and i think for authors just to be like what now and the answer is well now we wait
00:28:01
Speaker
I think publishing is so slow and it takes a lot of getting used to for some people that there's these heightened peaks of activity and then a lot of, you know, a lot of time when really nothing much is happening.
00:28:17
Speaker
There can also be times, you know, when I would normally agree an idea with an author,
00:28:21
Speaker
And then they would go away and write it.
00:28:23
Speaker
They might want to check in with me about stuff, you know, if they were stuck or they wanted to just have a brainstorm, but they might, I might not hear from them for months as they were just writing.
00:28:34
Speaker
And there would be no reason for us to chat unless they, they wanted to.
00:28:37
Speaker
So, I mean, obviously if someone's been working away for too long, I do like to check in and just make sure everything's okay.
00:28:44
Speaker
Make sure they're still alive.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:46
Speaker
They
Current Interests and Conclusion
00:28:47
Speaker
ripped up their manuscripts, just like, I'm done.
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:49
Speaker
Can't do it anymore.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:53
Speaker
And you're quite hands-on in terms of editing as an agent.
00:28:58
Speaker
Very hands-on, yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:29:04
Speaker
I mean, it's quite nice when you get submissions in when you think, oh, there's not that much for me to do.
00:29:09
Speaker
I always feel like I'm a sort of imposter when that happens.
00:29:13
Speaker
I'm like, oh, well, you don't need me.
00:29:15
Speaker
I'm just passing this to a publisher.
00:29:17
Speaker
So, yeah, I do like to get editorially involved.
00:29:21
Speaker
Oh, that's good.
00:29:22
Speaker
And we've talked about submissions.
00:29:24
Speaker
We've talked about your process and like how the landscape works a bit.
00:29:29
Speaker
What are your sort of top, top kind of pet peeves for anyone listening to this, getting ready to submit or now thinking about submitting potentially to you?
00:29:42
Speaker
What are your kind of pet peeves, the things that they should just definitely not do and make sure they don't do it in their submissions?
00:29:48
Speaker
Listen up.
00:29:50
Speaker
Listen carefully.
00:29:52
Speaker
I think being vague is my pet peeve.
00:29:56
Speaker
And I think it's really hard to conceptualize when you're looking at the number of submissions that we look at, how specific you need to be to pitch a book.
00:30:07
Speaker
And I'm sorry if anyone has previously listened to interviews with me where I've used the same example.
00:30:13
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:30:13
Speaker
It's just the example I always use.
00:30:16
Speaker
But you can, you know, if you're thinking about the pitch for the Hunger Games, you could say Katniss Everdeen's sister is, you know, volunteered for the annual Hunger Games where kids are pitted against each other in a fight to the death.
00:30:27
Speaker
She volunteers to take her place.
00:30:29
Speaker
And then you know who the main character is.
00:30:31
Speaker
You know that she's got to go and fight to the death.
00:30:35
Speaker
to save her sister, you know, what's at stake for her.
00:30:38
Speaker
You could also pitch it like Katniss Everdeen is, you know, flung into a battle and it's about friendships and love and courage.
00:30:45
Speaker
And that's the death for me of a submission letter because every single book really, when you boil it down, has very similar themes.
00:30:56
Speaker
It's not really what, when you're looking at that time and time again, I could probably flip through that.
00:31:02
Speaker
kind of 50 submissions in a row that say this is about love and friendship and adventure and, you know, and I think that, yeah, being vague for me is my biggest pet peeve.
00:31:15
Speaker
I want to know who's your main character, what's at stake for them, you know, and that's the pitch.
00:31:22
Speaker
Right, okay.
00:31:23
Speaker
Or the pitch is, you know, it's Bridgerton meets Mean Girls, you know, I want to know what the book is.
00:31:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:31
Speaker
Comparisons to new stuff.
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
Or, I mean, it doesn't have to be a comparison, but sometimes rather than a plot hook, that can be a hook in itself.
00:31:41
Speaker
You know, if you, if you have two really good comp titles, like, um, I'm just thinking, I've just been talking about, um, Ace of Spades, which is a new book coming out.
00:31:50
Speaker
And every time I hear that gossip girl meets get out pitch, I'm like,
00:31:54
Speaker
You know, I know I want to read that book.
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:56
Speaker
So it doesn't have to have comparisons, but just something in the cover letter that makes it specific, makes it stand out just so that I know what the book is.
00:32:04
Speaker
Not just, it's not just a discussion of the themes in the book, which are off, you know, in a lot of books and they are important, but it's just, it's, it's so easy, so much easier to,
00:32:15
Speaker
You just need to get a sense.
00:32:16
Speaker
It needs to be pinpoint when you read it because you can't give it that much time.
00:32:20
Speaker
So you need to read it and know exactly what it is straight away.
00:32:22
Speaker
That's a great piece of advice.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:24
Speaker
And sometimes then I can look into the synopsis and find my own pitch.
00:32:29
Speaker
But, you know, it's so nice when that's sort of when the author is aware of where they fit into the market.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:37
Speaker
And you, are you currently open to submissions?
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:40
Speaker
I'm always open to submissions.
00:32:42
Speaker
You are always open to submissions, guys.
00:32:43
Speaker
The door is always open, guys.
00:32:46
Speaker
Exactly.
00:32:46
Speaker
It's always open.
00:32:48
Speaker
I just, you know, I have a pretty full list, so I'm not actively building, but I'm always open to something that I fall in love with.
00:32:54
Speaker
Right.
00:32:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:56
Speaker
And you represent middle grade up to young adult.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yes, that is correct.
00:33:02
Speaker
And sometimes younger.
00:33:03
Speaker
I mean, I say I don't generally represent picture books.
00:33:07
Speaker
I've just taken on a picture book because I fell in love with it.
00:33:10
Speaker
So, you know, she can be swayed.
00:33:12
Speaker
I can be swayed.
00:33:15
Speaker
I will say represent a little bit of adult fantasy.
00:33:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:18
Speaker
But, um, mainly when it crosses over.
00:33:21
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:33:22
Speaker
And so, uh, for anyone listening who, uh, is thinking about submitting to you or has something they don't know that they, they don't know yet they want to submit to you.
00:33:32
Speaker
What are you looking for?
00:33:34
Speaker
What genres of book are you looking for?
00:33:37
Speaker
What excites you, uh, in the second half of this year?
00:33:41
Speaker
Well, at the moment, everything's so bleak.
00:33:44
Speaker
I think I'm really just looking for joy.
00:33:46
Speaker
Bring me joy.
00:33:49
Speaker
Please bring me out of... Anything joyful.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:52
Speaker
Anything that brings me out of this horrible, you know, focusing on the news, thinking about lockdown.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:00
Speaker
It makes a lot of sense.
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:02
Speaker
I think that rolls us on to the last question, which is, if you marooned on a desert island, what book would you take with you and why?
00:34:25
Speaker
Oh, that's a really hard one.
00:34:29
Speaker
You can be, yeah, anything, anything.
00:34:33
Speaker
Oh, I know what series I would watch.
00:34:35
Speaker
I feel like... You can't take a TV with you.
00:34:38
Speaker
Can I take a TV with me?
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah, can you take a TV with you?
00:34:42
Speaker
Bring a laptop.
00:34:43
Speaker
What series would you watch?
00:34:46
Speaker
I'm going to give a really basic answer.
00:34:48
Speaker
I feel like it would have to be like a Jane Austen or something.
00:34:52
Speaker
Just because, again, that joy.
00:34:54
Speaker
I feel like if you're marooned on Zezza Island, maybe I'm just taking this question far too literally, you're going to be quite miserable.
00:35:00
Speaker
It's true.
00:35:01
Speaker
It's true.
00:35:01
Speaker
it's true you want something to lift those spirits yeah something you want a mood booster don't you so yeah it's gotta be one of my austens i mean you could just read book that those books over and over again and the characters and the fun will just you know yeah
00:35:18
Speaker
Lift your spirits.
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:35:22
Speaker
I mean, as much of a horror fan I am, I feel like on a desert island it wouldn't be the vibe that I'd be wanting.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:35:33
Speaker
To keep up with everything that Chloe's doing, you can follow her on Twitter at Chloe Seeger or on Instagram at ChloeN Seeger.
00:35:40
Speaker
And to make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, follow us on Twitter at RightAndWrongUK and on Instagram at RightAndWrongPodcast.
00:35:46
Speaker
Thanks so much for listening.
00:35:47
Speaker
We'll catch you in the next one.