Challenges of Script Timing and Natural Sound
00:00:00
Speaker
I had one not too long ago and it was like, there was 45 seconds of copy there. Oh my gosh. This is a 30, it's gotta be a 30. It's like, okay, I can make it fit 30. I did radio. Right. It's not gonna sound right. Nope, that's what it's gotta be. Okay. I didn't book that one.
Pursuit of Perfection in Auditions: Pitfalls
00:00:23
Speaker
So today, we are talking about chasing perfection.
00:00:29
Speaker
Why? Do you like to be perfect? I don't chase it. I am it. Oh boy. Here we go. It's gonna be a good one. That's how we start. So this probably comes up mostly with auditions, right? Yes. You know, sometimes you just, I don't feel like I do it anymore, but I know I used to. I try and get it just perfect.
00:00:52
Speaker
The problem with that is you do it over and over and over and you just kind of lose it. You lose your connection to the script because you're just chasing like, oh, I want this inflection here and I want that one there and it's got to be whatever. Too many down sentences, too many up sentences. How do you get that natural feel right?
Over-Rehearsing vs. Genuine Performance
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and, you know, I used to, it's funny because whenever it gave me the option to submit multiple takes, not the ones that say, please give us at, you know, a minimum of, let's say three takes if it's just a line or so, not in that situation.
00:01:32
Speaker
But usually if they said, just go ahead, give us two, three takes, whatever. I always went for the three takes. Now, I'm like, well, if it's optional, they're like one to three. I typically at this point might just do one because I don't want to overthink it. But you're a professional. Yeah, we're all professional now.
00:01:50
Speaker
I think there's still benefits to doing two, but three seems excessive. I do. It does. Yeah, that's true. But I think that's where we get in our heads, right? We're like, oh. And then the Frankenstein, don't Frankenstein your work, although we've all done it.
'Frankensteining' Takes in Auditions
00:02:04
Speaker
I know I have. But it's seeking that perfection, right? It's like, oh, but I like the way I said something in that one, but the rest of it was so much better than, you know. Yes, I'll record five takes and then mix it down to three.
00:02:19
Speaker
I still do that sort of, but it's because, you know, I can't read. So I screw up halfway through and then I'll start over again. And then I cut out my flub. So it's not like I'm taking take one for this line and take 73 for this line. No. And good Lord, I don't do that many takes.
00:02:37
Speaker
anymore. Yeah, I can't. I used to though, right? See, you used to as well, used to do more. And I think that comes with time, right? It's kind of accepting like, okay, otherwise you're just doing that over and over again.
Debate on Natural Sound: To Breathe or Not?
00:02:51
Speaker
But one of the things I've done recently, and this has been a really tough one for me, not removing when I'm taking a breath for commercial work. That's kind of been beat out of me by my coach now. You have to take out the breaths?
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah. And she was like, be human. Breathe. It's in between. It's a natural flow. As long as I'm not going through something, which I don't do anyway. See, I've never completely removed them. And it never occurred to me that that was a thing that people did.
00:03:21
Speaker
lowered the volume and they still do most of the time because I find a lot of times when I'm reading, especially commercial copy, I do kind of slash breaths, right? So it's a very prominent between lines or sometimes in the middle of a line. And that's just a little jarring. So I'll slice on both sides and take the volume of that down. But I've never just cut it out because that sounds unnatural. Right. However, I think in the off chance and this also doesn't happen frequently, but sometimes they're like, we need a 15 second read.
00:03:51
Speaker
OK, you're going to get something where I'm not going to sound right. Here's 87 words. Yeah, I had one not too long ago and it was like there was 45 seconds of copy there. It's like this is a 30. It's got to be a 30. It's like OK, but you want it to be like heartfelt and whatever. It's not going to sound right. Yeah.
00:04:10
Speaker
I can make it fit 30. I did radio. It's not going to sound right. Nope. That's what it's got to be. Okay. I got an announcery. Just really heartfelt. I didn't make that one.
00:04:25
Speaker
I mean, we have limitations, right? And I had that with a booked gig that I did. I gave them the takes, I gave them single lines as well that they requested, and they still wanted it
Balancing Timing and Natural Delivery
00:04:35
Speaker
shorter. So I gave it to them shorter. And they took it, but I was really surprised that they wanted kind of me to do that versus, you know, like an audio engineer or somebody on the other side of it. But
00:04:49
Speaker
That's where I'll run into that perfection thing trying to get the timing right. Which is why when I see those with, oh, it's really important, try to get it as close to 29 seconds that you can.
00:05:03
Speaker
29 and a half. Right. I try not to look at it. Um, but yeah, I think, and I think the more that I'm focused on timing, now I'm not focused on, you know, connecting with it. You take the natural out of it. I had an audition just this past week that was the opposite problem. It was a 30, but they're even reading it slowly. There was like 25 seconds of copy. See that's on them. That's on them. They've got to make that work.
00:05:35
Speaker
I'll read it slow, but if I go any slower than this and stretch it to 30, it's not going to sound good. Add another line or two, guys. Come on. I'm paying for 30 seconds here. What was your question,
Perfectionism in Auditions: A Double-Edged Sword
00:05:49
Speaker
Al? I was going to say.
00:05:51
Speaker
How do you, with these being auditions that we're talking about, do you, it's a rarity that the job is booked with the audition material. Like you mean using that audio? Yes, yes. Do you take less care in the audition knowing that? I mean, you want to give the best performance you can, but is that where the search for perfection works against you?
00:06:22
Speaker
You're trying so hard in the audition that you overwork yourself and work yourself out of the job. Sure, yeah. Because you're hoping that you won't have to
Efficient Recording and Organization Techniques
00:06:31
Speaker
actually do the... Yeah, I don't want to have to do this twice. I don't think I ever think about it that way.
00:06:39
Speaker
Yeah, I don't. Because I'm kind of like I audition and forget about it, but I try to give them the best audition. Sure. Although I know some people will, I think you do it. Don't you save yours as WAV files and MP3s? I don't do that.
00:06:55
Speaker
Well, it records as WAV, so I have it as WAV. I don't render it out as WAV. I only, you know, bounce it to an MP3. But if they decided, hey, we want to book you and we want to use your audition audio, I could simply just render it a WAV file and send it, wouldn't be a problem. Which is the benefit of doing, you know, an individual project per, because I just have to go back, find it, hit render, and I'm done. I don't have to
00:07:21
Speaker
You know, screw around and like set a time selection within some larger project or whatever else. You know, there, there are people who, a lot of people actually who will, they'll do batch recording and they'll record, you know, for a half hour in a single project and then go back and edit and bounce out each individual audition and send those in. And I'll do a single project per audition, which sounds like a lot of work, but it's way more organized because I used to do it the other way and it worked, but.
00:07:50
Speaker
I didn't find it to be any kind of a time saver. I'll do that only for, um, I recently had like an animation project where there were several characters that I wanted to read for. So I would read that all on one file and then save those selections as instead of, you know, stopping editing, you know, it was much easier to kind of batch that particular project, but
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah, I do that too. If there's a project that's got multiple roles, I'll do those in a single project file and then create regions for each role. And then I do my render using wildcards and render each region individually. Yeah. Question. Answer. You talked about not Frankenstein. It's Frankenstein-ing. Tom, when you're doing multiple roles, multiple voices, what's your technique? Do you read all one character?
00:08:44
Speaker
and then you read all the other character and then you mix them together. You don't change characters. You usually don't mix them together. Don't mix them together. There's maybe been one, I can count probably on one hand, the number of times that I've been asked to do multiple roles.
00:09:02
Speaker
in a single file where I'm switching back and forth. And in those cases, yes, I have read all of this character's lines and all of this other character's lines and then cut them together because it just sounds more natural that way rather than I could switch back and forth like Seth MacFarlane does. I was thinking of the guy from Game of Thrones. Which guy? The guy that read the Game of Thrones book. He did all the characters. He did everything.
00:09:29
Speaker
or the Harry Potter. I mean, those are all different characters. Well, I think when you're talking about long form narration, that would be different. Yes. Yes. Then I would read that with
Consistency in Character Voices for Audiobooks
00:09:42
Speaker
all the different. That's like narrating a book with characters. Right. And I also I've only I can count on one hand as well, where I've had it like, oh, let's be Linda and
00:09:55
Speaker
Gertrude and they're having a conversation how to sound absolutely different from one another But they wanted it on one mp3 if they could get one after to do two characters But I kind of did it I think well you said it you did it the same way you just recorded character Yeah, and then you leave yes, yes those guys that do that long-form Multi-character those guys are my heroes That's some
00:10:23
Speaker
Crazy. Yeah. I've done it. You know what's fine now? You're not wrong. It is crazy.
00:10:32
Speaker
So one thing I learned when it comes to narrating fiction in audiobooks is to prepare your chapters ahead of time. I didn't move far enough ahead in the book when I was preparing and while I was narrating to find out midway through the book that my lead male character supposedly had some sort of blended accent.
00:10:55
Speaker
Nice. Surprise. Yeah, surprise. So then you had to rerecord the first half of the book? Yeah. So those are the things that you just... No wonder you don't want to do those. Yeah, I don't. No. I'd rather do nonfiction or something that's just informative versus audio. Audio books are wonderful and I do enjoy reading. I just don't have time. They are time consuming.
00:11:20
Speaker
See, I had a similar issue to a smaller degree when I was doing the book I did. In chapter one there's like five characters all in this one scene.
00:11:32
Speaker
and then like four of them you don't see again or three of them you don't see again until like the last chapter or second to last chapter of the book or something right and so I marked every individual new character I put a marker so I could jump back and listen to what I had done so finding the character voice again wasn't difficult but the problem was that when I went back and reviewed it I reviewed the wrong one
00:11:55
Speaker
Oops. So I started reading this chapter with this guy who came back from chapter one with the wrong accent and the wrong character voice. I got about halfway through. I went, wait a minute. Hang on. That's this guy. Well, who the hell is this guy? So then I had to rerecord that chapter again. But it wasn't half the book. It was like 10 pages or something.
00:12:20
Speaker
See, it should be established for us people who have to read long things. Let me know who's got a different voice. I think the smart thing to do probably is to read the whole book first and make notes overachiever and then go back and do the narration. Plus then you kind of you understand the story, you know where it's going, you're not surprised like the listener is. On the other hand, there's
00:12:43
Speaker
There's something to be said for like not knowing where the story's going ahead of time, right? So then you find out the same time the listener does. That's kind of fun. Not really. I don't listen to the narrator. Wait, what? What? See, I don't enjoy reading though. So reading the book multiple times, that's not going to happen for me because I don't enjoy reading. I'm not going to read ahead.
00:13:06
Speaker
I love reading, but I don't necessarily want to read. Like if I've already read this, I'm like, oh, I'm going to read it again. But, you know, it's to me, I love reading because I love sleeping and they go hand in hand.
Engagement in Narrating Technical Material
00:13:23
Speaker
So how on earth what was what was your huge project for fire prevention manuals? How did you make it through that? Oh, my goodness. It took me a long time.
00:13:35
Speaker
I bet. I bet. Did you say 25,000? You had multiple copies so that you could replace the pages that had drool marks when you'd wake up. Correct. Yes. I'm sure there were no surprises in there, though, though. Like, oh, and if you do that, that's going to cause a fire. What? Twist. Yeah, yeah. Plot twist. Plot twist. Bet you didn't see that coming. Right. Luckily, there were no characters, voices in that. Other than my own.
00:14:04
Speaker
But yes, plot twist. Another thing I think would... Well, see, you could have done Fire Marshal Bill. Oh, jeez. Let me dice you something. Shoot, now I forgot my thought. It was important. It was about being perfect. It's okay, we're way off topic anyway. I know, right?
Avoiding Perfection: Ignoring Voice Specs?
00:14:23
Speaker
So hang on. Are we, though? I don't think we're that... No, we're talking about chasing perfection. We've been further off topic before. This is true.
00:14:30
Speaker
But to your point of switching between characters on shorter form stuff versus longer form stuff, what you've got going for you with the longer form stuff is the narrator voice between character lines, usually, right? So it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Said Bill. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. She said, you know, or whatever, right? So you've got that little buffer where you're kind of shifting, although that's yet another voice you gotta maintain.
00:14:54
Speaker
unless your narrative voice is your main character. Don't try to do it as a cold read. Oh, I don't know. That's what Punch and Roll is for.
00:15:03
Speaker
What I found most confusing in audiobook narration is when it's dialogue between multiple characters and it doesn't establish which character's saying which, right? So you just have to like figure it out, like, oh, okay, the last person that talked was Bill, and then this is a line that's just quoted, and then the next line is just a line that's quoted. Those are two different characters. Which one is which? I don't know, but it's two people talking to each other. It's the two people in the scene,
00:15:31
Speaker
Maybe there's three people in the scene. Who's actually talking? Surprise! Uh-uh. Yeah. Or you have the long line and you're narrating it, you're reading it, and then all of a sudden it says, said Nancy. Aw, crap. Oh, hello. Hey, nice keyboard. I know, right? You're welcome. Yeah. You've been reading as Frank and Nancy. Exactly, yes.
00:15:56
Speaker
That was a whole page. Well, speaking of Nancy, Nancy Wilson with our coach. Yes. I know that she doesn't like to read the specs. First. First.
00:16:11
Speaker
which I think is helpful to get out of that perfection thing too.
Approaching Voice Specs Naturally
00:16:16
Speaker
Because if I read something and they're trending towards something younger, I'm going to do things with my voice that maybe wouldn't be as natural if I just gave it a shot with my regular voice.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, because your regular voice doesn't sound old, but if you look at the spec and it says, you know, 20-something, you're probably gonna raise your pitch and give it a little bit more bounce and whatever, but that doesn't necessarily serve the story. Exactly.
00:16:43
Speaker
So not reading it ahead of time and just kind of getting out of that headspace, I think has been helpful as well. Sometimes it's hard to trust the things that have been sent to me are meant for me to read, because a lot of times I'm just getting an audition that's kind of on the email blast. Depends on the source, right? Depends on the source, exactly. It does.
00:17:06
Speaker
Yeah, and sometimes you just have to trust your instincts when you get that piece of copy to kind of look at why you're saying, why the hell do you care about these words, right? And stop getting so deep into it that, oh, now I need to sound like I'm 20. No, I don't. I don't need to sound like I'm like that again. They insta-voice? Right? So do you do the whole, who am I, who am I talking to, that whole thing?
00:17:36
Speaker
Probably not so much anymore. I've always, even way back whenever I got copy, I really just tried to figure out, well, why? Seriously, that's like, why should anybody care? That's always been the way I looked at copy and then, yeah, you got people that do, oh, script analysis, okay, yeah. But still, it comes down to why am I saying this?
00:18:00
Speaker
And don't try to sell it to me because if anybody tries to sell you anything, you're like, it's icky, right? So making it as authentic as possible has always been how I approached it anyway. Like talking to a best friend over a cup of coffee at the Starbucks? Yes. Yeah. Now is the Starbucks busy or is it empty? Yeah. Is your cup full? Do they have a live band in the corner?
00:18:28
Speaker
Well, I mean, okay. Yes. But it will change. It will change the way you project. It does change the environment. You will change your read. That's for sure. But it still shouldn't take away from the purpose of why you're reading that to begin with. And I think that's the hardest part.
00:18:49
Speaker
I actually just had one where it was like give us you know two or three reads or whatever and they had specific instructions for each read so like this one is more direct and intimate you're talking to a person now this one like you're trying to talk over a loud band that's playing like
00:19:05
Speaker
Okay. Cool. Well, you know, sometimes you appreciate those specs. Yeah. Here's a spec I got yesterday. Male, 55-ish. A grizzled veteran of personal finance who knows what's what. And that's it. I think I might have seen that one. I like the word grizzled. A grizzled veteran. I know what's what. Right. Exactly right. You know your stuff. I know the difference between a penny and a pound.
00:19:35
Speaker
Oh, that's lovely. Right. Okay. It is important.
Reviewing Takes to Avoid Errors
00:19:40
Speaker
So how long do you spend on an audition usually? On a good day? On a good day? On a good day? If I'm an exceptional voice, I don't spend a whole lot of time. I like to say I'll go over it twice, three times.
00:20:01
Speaker
figure out where I'm going with it. Before you record? Yeah, before I record, yeah. And then I'll do 27 takes and then I'll just mix them all together. It's quite simple. You got my 72 beat. Easy, all right. Yeah, so you know, you get a 30 second, it takes me about three hours. Oh, sure. Yeah.
00:20:22
Speaker
No, I like to be spontaneous. I like to be, I don't want it to sound too perfect. Sure. And it's pretty, it gets pretty natural that way. So five minutes, 10 minutes, 15. 10 minutes. 10 minutes. I'd say I'm about 15 to 20. Okay.
00:20:44
Speaker
which to me is too long, personally. I know, but it's usually, but it kind of depends as well, right? If it's something that, if there's medical wards in it, oh, God. I had to look up stuff.
00:21:03
Speaker
Even so, they told me how to say it. I have seen the same commercials on air. I'm like, oh well, maybe one of the other reasons I didn't book that is because I did not say the product name quite like that. Or they didn't and that's why you're getting the audition. I don't know. It was pretty bad. But the idea that if I have to look things up, I think I've gotten a lot better
00:21:31
Speaker
just recently because of the whole breath work not taking all of that out. But prior to that, it was probably about 15 minutes per. I've done them quicker, but I do have a tendency and I don't know about you guys and this is part of that perfection conversation. Once I record, I'll always listen back.
00:21:50
Speaker
just to make sure because I had one just last week. I'm so glad I do that. That's part of my workflow is listening back because I left in two different ways. I said something right in the middle of the script and I forgot to take one out. So I was like, dang, good thing I listened to it before. Hit send. I listen, I read along, I whistle, whatever it takes because it's right. Simple things like,
00:22:20
Speaker
At the beginning of the script, you say data, the back end, you say data. You know, crazy things like that happen. What about you, Will? How quick are you?
00:22:30
Speaker
My average is probably seven-ish. There are times when it's, you know, four or five minutes and there are times when it's 10 to 15, but typically I'm under 10, I think. But I also record kind of from the start, I'll typically do a rip and read on most things and figure it out as I'm going. Because you never know, you know, maybe I nail it that first time. I basically never do.
00:22:56
Speaker
But maybe I do. And you never know. That's true. I actually admitted that to Nancy recently. She said, well, we need to fix that because you need to nail it on the first time. That shouldn't be your excuse. You shouldn't give yourself that out. I was like, OK, that's that's fair. I'll work on that. That is fair. I mean, I think it's that's coming from a place where we were still going into studios and you didn't have that luxury.
Studio vs. Home Recording: Impact on Performance
00:23:20
Speaker
Right. Yeah, you could go in there. But, you know, when we went to a studio
00:23:26
Speaker
We were supposed to be there about no more than 15 minutes prior to your allotted audition time, but they always have those little golf pencils. That's what I call them. I don't know if that's what they literally are called, but like little tiny. I know what you're talking about, the little mini golf pencil. Yeah, yeah. And that little pencil and you go, I always carried
00:23:44
Speaker
Mark your script. Highlighters with me. Yep. Marked up my script. And you go in there and usually only have two options. Whereas now, you know, we can read it over. Oh, we flubbed a line. We don't have to apologize to anybody. We just do it. Right. So I don't want to say it's lazy because it's not. It gives us more opportunity to, you know,
00:24:05
Speaker
to perform a better product in the end. Oh, sure. On that note, though, if you're in a session or in the unlikely event that you're doing an audition live and you flub because you're going to flub, don't apologize.
Handling Mistakes in Live Auditions
00:24:18
Speaker
Just pause for a moment, back up to the start of that line or the start of that paragraph and just go again.
00:24:24
Speaker
It's going to happen. Everybody expects it to happen. So don't apologize, ever. Okay. I'll take a pause and then, just so the audio engineer knows, we're going to take this from the top hand. Yeah, and you're collecting yourself and you're ready. I usually break out into the Jessica Simpson jig. Oh, sure. I'm not sure I know what that is, but
00:24:49
Speaker
when she got busted on Saturday Night Live for a lip syncing and the tape got messed up. Oh, that was her sister. That was Ashley. Yeah, that was her sister Jessica. Yeah. The music got either stopped or it skipped. So she just started dancing? Yeah. It's kind of an awkward jig. It was weird. All right.
00:25:12
Speaker
Probably not as weird as it was for her, but... All right. Good to know. All right. So you don't do that? I don't. I don't.
Time Management in Auditions
00:25:21
Speaker
All right. I'm a little disappointed now, but all right. Instead, he just lips things to nothingness. And he goes, what happened to the playback? Do you guys get that? Because I didn't hear it. I couldn't hear myself anymore.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah. Well, on, um, when I, when I used to play music, there were, you know, your guys on stage and they'd, everyone would mess up. It's what you do. And the, you know, the singer would, he'd forget the words and all of a sudden he's like, you know, he's hit, he's hitting it. Don't, don't, don't. Oh man. That's good. That's not a word.
00:26:00
Speaker
Your brain's not working. Yeah, I was in a, uh, ex session last weekend. One of the first questions asked was how long do you spend on that auditions? Oh, and it was like 10 minutes, 15, seven, five, 30 something, five, seven. So everybody was kind of around the five to 10 and then the one, the one outlier was like 30.
00:26:22
Speaker
She was like, oh my god. It's buried her head in her hands. We're just trying to understand where you're at. It's fine. There's no wrong answer.
Strategies for Pay-to-Play Auditions
00:26:33
Speaker
You know, you just need, whether you need to improve or not. But it's also not a race either, right? Like maybe on pay to plays it is.
00:26:40
Speaker
But in most cases, even then, you still have time. Take a couple minutes and get it right. Don't just race to be the first one in. That's nonsense. Do you record 100% of the audition? I do. It depends.
00:26:59
Speaker
Do you watermark or anything like that? No. No, but basically the only auditions I'm doing these days are through my agent. So whatever sent, unless they say only read this piece, I read the whole thing. And I just had one the other day that was like a couple of pages. I was like, really? Want me to read all this? Right. I wonder if we had the same thing because they were looking for male and female. And I was like, OK, you want both? Because one was just like a smaller version of the longer one. I was like, yeah.
00:27:29
Speaker
You know they're going to turn you off after three seconds if they don't like it anymore, too. Right. And I had one where it was a man and wife talking to each other, and they wanted me to read both parts. That's weird. I suppose maybe they'll decide which one they want to be which later or something. I don't know. Right? That's strange. I don't know. That is strange.
00:27:48
Speaker
But for pay-to-play, I don't do the whole thing. Or if I do, I will... I'll admit the product name or the website or something like that that wouldn't... Because I know... Omit. Yes. What did I say? Emit? You'd say admit. Admit. All right.
00:28:08
Speaker
We'll fix that in post. Don't worry. We'll fix it in post. The dentures are loose. Yeah, it's really bad. I'm shortly after Taco over here. Now I'm sidetracked. Now I can't remember what I was saying. Thank you. You will omit the brand name or whatever. I omit, but it also says Bodalgo in particular, that pay to play.
00:28:27
Speaker
recommend, and they put that at the top of pretty much every audition spec that you see that comes through them, they recommend to do that. So, and you can write a note with your submission and I'll say, you know, and ask her,
00:28:43
Speaker
these guidelines, this is a edited script version. Just so they're not like, hey, why didn't you read the whole thing? It's because they tell us not to. And I think it also helps you not overthink it as well. Just don't overdo it. Do your best. Get the audition out there. Be done. Don't overthink. Don't Frankenstein.
00:29:10
Speaker
I say, give it two reads and let her rip.
Embracing Natural Delivery Over Perfectionism
00:29:14
Speaker
I say, understand the story and serve the story, but don't try to be perfect. Don't try to sound perfect. They don't want perfect enunciation. They want, you know, real, relatable. Conversational. Conversational, yeah. Not over-annunciated. Not. Not over-annunciated. Right. Right. Brilliant. Wonderful.
00:29:38
Speaker
There we go. Don't chase perfection, folks. And we'll see you next week. And have fun. I need a Long Island nice too. Bye, guys. Long. Long Island. Long Island. Yeah, baby.