Transcript
Speaker: Mental health is a prevention more than it should not be a reactionary thing like oh yeah okay because of trauma mental health. yeah it's like no it's it starts as a baby man.
Speaker: Hey everyone, welcome to the Trafficking Free America podcast where I am your host Ori Freeman and we're gonna have a very familiar face on today, Jeremy Hicks. We're gonna be having a really great conversation about around mental health. I think it's especially because of certain times that we're in right now and all the different things that people are navigating. especially people that have been through traumatic experiences. I really wanted to to be vulnerable and to be transparent about where I am currently, what a lot of other individuals who've been through human trafficking, whose experience human trafficking survived it, um and what that kind of looks like, what healing looks like. Also, maybe what Jeremy, you have seen um throughout your time really hosting these pods too, before I came on, like
Speaker: you know, talking to all the various people and, you know, from all the different sectors of if any of them had ever mentioned or was open about talking about mental health at all. I wouldn't say specifically,
Speaker: um like for mental health, like we're talking about here. But naturally, i mean, talking with um victims, survivors, there was someone that was a mentor to other women because of their spouses being unfaithful due to typically pornography or um ah you know cheating on them or even buying sex, right? um And so she obviously was a victim of that in that way. And um even um a sex buyer and that that ah that has been you know restored and by all means, and he's helping other people who have been addicted to that and stuff like that. And he obviously talks about past trauma being a big part of that. So obviously a lot.
Speaker: of mental health um issues are around us and and especially in this um environment. So yeah, not specifically, but definitely there. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think it was extremely important to talk about it right now because these last couple of weeks, has been extremely hard for me, even as a leader.
Speaker: And I recognize that there were a lot of areas that I had learned about taking care of my mental health that I didn't put into practice. So I'm super grateful, especially when we're working with young children, especially when they've been exploited.
Speaker: Um, I think for all of the clinicians out there or anyone in the department of mental health, it's okay. And it's very necessary to plant the seeds now. Mm hmm.
Speaker: At 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 years old when I was being trafficked, was I able to practice the things that were given to me the tools to really help my nervous system, um to really help me manage stress? No, I didn't have the capacity to do that, nor did I want to do that um because I was also in fight or flight mode. But what I will say is that I'm grateful that, you know,
Speaker: During that time when I was in group homes or when I spent time in foster homes or when even I was in juvenile hall, we would have to have these therapeutic behavioral groups or just therapy because it gave me a tool, though.
Speaker: So now that I'm an adult, it's not foreign to me that – that this word therapy again or doing different types of therapy so now it wasn't foreign to me i was super comfortable with it but i'm also able to now use some of the tools that i i learned back then when i wasn't really ready and when i say not ready typically when a victim or anyone going through therapy you have to be ready to to be willing to do the work or it's just gonna fall hard
Speaker: heart bad soil to where nothing's gonna produce from it. And I've done that before it to where literally I had a great therapist to where she was like, I'm not gonna work with you right now while you're choosing to not be stable.
Speaker: You in and out of all these different relationships, you're still gang banging, you're still doing these kinds of things. You're still active active in legal activity. i'm not I'm not gonna do this with you. And this was when I was really young.
Speaker: And that's a really great therapist to be like, I'm i'm not gonna work with you. You're not ready yet. you know You're wasting your time. You're wasting your Medicaid at the time, of course. yeah And I'm not going to work with you. We can do some other behavioral stuff, but we're not going to do the core work. Because also, too, I wasn't stable. And I'm recognizing that now when I go to therapy, like I'm exhausted afterwards. like After I leave a therapy appointment, I am exhausted. I shouldn't be going to work.
Speaker: Unfortunately, in this season, I have to be working and not necessarily for my work for for the Institute, but just like the mission stuff that I do. yeah But I've learned that i do need to be taking that day off or having a little bit more time period in between to really just decompress. um And so, yeah, I think it's super important because I haven't always used the tools. And now I'm in this season where it's super hectic, Jeremy, like super hectic. I have three children now, three girls.
Speaker: I'm officially a girl mom because there's no boys now other than our dog, Ollie, and my fiancee, who will soon be joining the home ones where we're married. But... um It's a lot. I ended up getting ah a cancer scare diagnosis. So they did find some cancer cells. So there's some things that I have to change in my health and everything. um And then they'll do a follow up probably in a couple months to see if any cell counts have changed.
Speaker: But it's been a lot. I'm also in a yeah graduate program. um And the other day i had a speaking event and I literally was like, God, what do you want me to give to these women? Because i don't have nothing left.
Speaker: i ain't got nothing to give. And he was like, be honest. Because this is this is a time in life where you don't have to perform. You're not getting up and sharing your story. You're not getting up and teaching and training people.
Speaker: Get up and be honest about how you feel, where you're at, what you need help in. And I was honest with those women. Like, you know, I feel refreshed now and I'm revived now because the Lord also reminded me about a week ago, you're ungrateful.
Speaker: Yeah, you were ungrateful. I thought I was going to go to the altar, get some prayer. I needed extra couple days in therapy. I was like, no, you need a heart of gratitude. After I've done a lot in your life.
Speaker: And I know this sounds crazy for people probably listening, but like literally I'm thinking I was going to go to church, go to the altar and get what I needed. I thought I was going to go to therapy twice that week and think I was going to get what I needed. When really it was a heart posture for me at that time of like,
Speaker: don't you see what I have done? Don't you see what I'm doing in your life? And it may not be how you want it to look. and And when I say that, I'm saying I've added three, I now have three children. So how my house used to look, it doesn't look like that no more. And it drives me bananas. Like, I don't know if any other moms or any other leaders can know what that feels like of like just coming home and you're like, why is stuff on a counter? Just, just, just why?
Speaker: oh Dude, but i've i've been I've been home this weekend without the family. And the fact that I come home and it's like as clean as I left it has been a wonderful feeling.
Speaker: i want i'm happy oh I've got's got three kids too, man. I mean, and that's just like you know this much compared to um a lot of things, right? But um I'm with you on that. But I'm curious though, when you talk about mental health,
Speaker: You talk about therapy, you talk about church, you talk about multiple things. What would you say the layers are when it comes to helping your mental health, right? oh um One of the things that I'm learning how to do, as you would hear it all the time, was making sure, other than you know the Lord, but you are sustaining and obtaining peace.
Speaker: You know, and with getting peace is having these boundaries. It's not like how the world try to make seem, oh, I got these boundaries. No, like I am emotionally drained today.
Speaker: I have driven all these kids to every appointment you could possibly think of. I'm not driving to Frisco to come see you, to come visit with family. I just can't.
Speaker: It's an hour and 25 minute drive there. I'm not doing that. you know And so it's making sure that you have peace. I think that and the next part of mental health is also really having an outlet.
Speaker: something that brings you joy. And that's the piece I'm actually struggling with right now. Because everybody says, oh you know, you can read a book.
Speaker: You can do art. I don't want to do nothing that requires me to think right now. Like, I don't want to think. I'm thinking for three other kids. I'm thinking about my marriage in five months. I'm thinking about my jobs. I'm thinking about school, my graduate program. Like, I'm thinking about a lot.
Speaker: So right now, mental health for me, and somebody just told me the other day, is also choosing what brings you joy. It could be on the couch. It could be being like, you know what? I'm getting ready to watch a nice documentary.
Speaker: And I'm going to rest. But see, Or for me, one of the, because I was literally like, Lord, what can I do to bring me joy? i don't want to get my feet done. i People, you guys don't know, was nail girl. I'll get my nails done, get my feet done. I don't even want to do that. I want acts of service. Use that money to get somebody to come to my yard. Make my yard look pretty. You know, it's stuff like that, but I realize it's like maybe it's just rest.
Speaker: And it's being out of nature. So like, I really do think I'm more probably of a nature girl, not like i need to go ride a bike. But just be out, like walk, sit at the park. I love water, like sit at the riverbank. Stuff like that I think is going to help. I haven't been able to do it because of just the time, time, time right now. Yeah. But i need to find it. I said I was after a holiday. So it's, you know, when you think about mental health, you you think about what is going to sustain your peace. What brings you joy of what you can do that that's a de-stressor.
Speaker: Another thing and when people think about mental health, what we don't really talk about is stress. is stress that really also then causes the anxiousness, the worry, all of that, that causes stress, that then you find yourself in this space where you are, your brain is going like rapid speed in a way. I can't really describe but neurons are going so fast to where you almost put yourself in a panic or you start worrying about things that you're not supposed to worry about or you start thinking about things you're not supposed to worry about. So then you start acting in certain ways that you shouldn't even be doing or taking up your time to do that.
Speaker: I got on a scale last week. I was six pounds down in a week because I knew it was stressed, though. I could feel it in my body. it was a bad thing. It was a bad thing.
Speaker: Oh, sorry. was like, congratulations. That's not healthy. To lose six pounds in a week? No, that is absolutely not healthy. So I knew it was like I could tell my body was...
Speaker: I had been listening to my body like, yeah, slow down. Yeah. Right. Slow down. Because I think what happens, like the question you asked is like when people think mental health, they think like diagnosis, they think like you have this diagnosis that you have or you go to the other, you swing the pendulum and you're on this other side where you're like, I need to take care of my mental health. And I think that we don't really recognize, especially for survivors, we've never been taught how to take care of ourselves.
Speaker: Sure, yeah. and I mean, i think I think we as a society struggle with it entirely. like Because when you think physical health, you eat. That's a natural thing. But when you say, like, I need some time by myself, someone's like, oh, please. Time to grow up, lady. Time to grow up, yeah dude. like Like, you got stuff to do. But then if you're like, I'm hungry, everyone's like, oh, I understand. Yeah, we just have to have this understanding that it's both right. And you're exactly right. You weren't.
Speaker: So we as a society have not really learned. But then had multiple layers on top of that. Exactly. You're just getting into as a survivor, as a previous victim. i mean, my gosh, it's you. You haven't.
Speaker: How do you like figure out what to do for yourself in those situations? You know, think it's important when you have community to also be willing to learn from other people that have done it before you. So there are a lot of amazing survivor leaders out there who are thrivers that are no longer even labeled as survivors because they're CEOs or doctors. And they have found ways to take care of themselves. And that's setting boundaries.
Speaker: You know, um also being mindful of your workload, man. Like when you come home, you should not be working. You should literally be present with your children and with your family. You know, like when I come home, because right now my fiance, where he's helping a lot with just the girls, you know, so he picks them up and everything from school majority of the time. So when I get home, I don't even want to like be on my phone the way I used to because that was a bad thing, too. We need to put our phones down like bad. yeah But, yeah you know, just being with him, you know, and just laughing and just like.
Speaker: having his presence. I mean, love language is a thing for sure. Right now I just need access, service and in quality time. But I'm learning from like my big sister Leah. I'm learning from people like Arnie. I'm learning from my mom when she tells me, like if I say something rude to her or like I'm not bringing her peace.
Speaker: She was like, you're not going to talk to me like that because you disagree right now. Cause I'm not like cussing at my mom, but I am like sometimes my tone, like, well, just don't understand why you asked me that. Like, and it's rude. And she's like, what we're not going to do is talk to each other. Like we don't love each other. Hmm.
Speaker: And that's a boundary, you know, having, and having community to have you accountable for how you're treating others. Yeah. And then it teaches me to do the same, to say my sister called me the other day and was like, sister, come over. And i was like, sister, i don't want to drive 45 minutes. I love you so much, but I, the thought of having to come back over here now, don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I've also been in seasons where love is always a sacrifice. But sure I'm also sacrificing time right now for myself, you know. And so it's it's something that you have to learn um to take care of yourself.
Speaker: You know, like i've I've been looking at some of the things my sisters do and I say, I really want to do that. Like, I want to rest. You know, I want to rest. I want to go take a walk. um I want to sit at the track with my kids and just let them run around and let me just sit.
Speaker: You know, and just look at the sky. Honestly, it sounds crazy, but it's just like admiring what God has done too. You know, like, wow, man, it's so beautiful. um So I could tell this next season we're going to spend a lot more time outdoors. Like, just even think the thought of doing more camping. And it's so funny because you could never get young Ori to, I'm not going camping. I'm not going on a hike. But now it's more for that. It's like I need it. You know, my brain needs it. um I think also too, I want to – it It's also a topic where people don't want to talk about medication, you know, and at one point I've even discussed with my therapist, like, should i take like,
Speaker: you know, medication for just my ADHD too. Like, because I've also learned where my therapist is like, your brain can't even, you're trying to make your brain do something it's not going to do because you have ADHD.
Speaker: And so I've, I've encouraged the thought of that. And it's not this bad thing. It's not this demonic thing. People need to understand that too, because sometimes it's just your brain. It is literally the regulation in your brain, you know, and it needed, it needed some assistance. Um, Um, and so now I'm not shy to the idea. I'm currently not on medication or anything, but I have people that are on medication. You know, I have a child that is on medication right now and it actually has helped her to move, stabilize because of all the traumatic experience she's had at 10, you know, so she needs some, she needs medication for right now for the morning and night because of all the things she's been through. And she has extreme already PTSD at 10 years old.
Speaker: And so it's not to um make her feel bad, but it does help her for for a while, you know, until she can be taught maybe healthy tools or when her brain feels safe enough, when her soul feels safe enough to be able to trust the people around her, the environment around her.
Speaker: And I think that goes the same for it sometimes when we're working with victims of human trafficking. You know, so there's different things. There's also different ways people with mental health. I think people immediately think about talk therapy, especially like my fiance at one point. He was like, I'm just talking to somebody. I'm like, no, I do. different types of therapy i've done equine therapy with animals i've done emdr therapy which is um i'm at a rapid like basically eye movement rapid something i don't can't think of the word don't desensitization or something and it basically allows you to reprocess a memory in a healthy space and if
Speaker: fries the neuron basically. Right. So now if the experience comes up again or something that should be a trigger, it no longer triggers you anymore because you reprocess that memory now. And it's not just from talk therapy. It's actually from what all the neurons and everything from your brain to your eye, all that stuff. And it's crazy. it It works. I've seen it work even on younger kids um that have that are stable, that are now you know doing really well in their home or environment.
Speaker: And they've done EMDR and other types of therapies to help them reprocess maybe a traumatic event during a court hearing. And having to reprocess what that made them feel like. So it's not something that, you know, comes up for them when they have to do normal things that has something to do with judicial. Whether it's like in Texas, you have to go to the the court building to...
Speaker: Get your registration. It's crazy. It's different. So it's all those different things. Like when I think about mental health, it's it's not just medication. It's just not one type of therapy. um It's not just having these crazy, outrageous boundaries, like for everything though. Like, ah that's my boundary. That's my boundary. Like, no, still having sacrificial love, but also,
Speaker: Yeah, I just can't do that right now. I don't have capacity. That's one of me and Curtis's words right now is instead of saying, can you or can't, honey, do you have capacity to do this right now?
Speaker: i like that. Yeah. help me in here ah lot Yeah. in that moment. yeah because it's it's like in that moment It's something that you're typically asking for. Like sometimes if, you know, if my wife has a bad day work actually let me back up a little bit. um I've been married for going on 12 years. Right. And what I've always known is that our worst fights are when we're just both done.
Speaker: And when it's oftentimes like what what keeps a fight from happening, or argument from happening, is when someone's a little bit on edge or something like that, and the other person's able to be more mature or more understanding, more forgiving in that moment. But when we're both like at our wit's end, And we just kind of like lash out like, hey, I need help sort of situation. And the other one's like, I need help. And then it's almost like this friction, right? That's usually what um our arguments have turned into. And I'm pretty sure other married couples would be like, yep, yep, me too. ah But yeah um I like that idea of the capacity thing because what you're saying is, are you able to help me right now?
Speaker: And if not, i you're you're able to say in that moment, I understand if you can't. you're You're allowing them this say to say to have an out. And I think that's good in all relationships. When you talk about mental health all mental health all around and understanding boundaries.
Speaker: I think I've told you this to people before like, hey, you can ask me anything, but you have to let me say no. Like I don't want to say no most often, right?
Speaker: it Sometimes I have to say no for the because i've that of just that particular moment and situation. um And it's not ah and and so and and and having having mental health, try to say yes more than no, sure. But being able to say no and and having the confidence. And on the other end, you know being able to let someone say no is extremely important because if you don't let them say no,
Speaker: people won't let you say no. And then it just becomes all that, right? um But let me ask you this question. On that, is sort of on that topic, like how do we respond to others who didn't have a very good upbringing on how to handle their mental health? It could be someone who has ADHD.
Speaker: Like my son has ADHD and some people just don't know how to understand or deal with him as a seven-year-old. They're like, man, my six-year-old can understand this or or is better behaved than him. And it's like...
Speaker: you know, as a father, I'm just like, yeah um, but some know to deal with it. Um, and, or some, like you mentioned, like you didn't know, learn the proper way of how to handle your stress, how to handle, um, your emotions in certain ways. Right.
Speaker: until and later in life, that was me too. I didn't really learn how to handle my emotions until like 30. I'm 35. I'm thirty five I've had five years of learning how to handle my emotional health for 30 years. I didn't really know, you know, I'd get a slap on the wrist. Sometimes I'd get some clues, but didn't really know how to handle my, my emotions. And so how do we as a society help others? Like it could be a victim or it could just be a, someone we know at church, right?
Speaker: Well, especially with the church, I don't want us to demonize everything, you know, because some of this is just the wiring of your brain. Sure. Plain and simple. Yeah. Yeah. um Not everything is a spirit. Some of it is, is the fact that is because it's the wiring of your brain.
Speaker: um And then I think the next thing is accepting it is accepting that someone might need different tools in their toolbox to help their brain, to help their body. regulate or to calm down or to respond.
Speaker: And that's okay. We have to accept it and not make it seem like there's it's this massive disability because it can become a disability, but that's not the case for everybody.
Speaker: um So I think those are the two things. I think also how to deal with it, especially when it comes to serving people, is to also get an understanding. I think I work actually, well, previously i was working um at a nonprofit organization and it worked with an housed population.
Speaker: So I worked at a homeless shelter. And I'm to tell you something. I've never worked at a homeless shelter before. And it is a lot of mental health, a lot of drug addiction, but more mental health than anything. But when you hear the stories of people, I had 50 year olds who had never known that the life their mother's selling them was human trafficking.
Speaker: And to think that their life, they are now not even 50, in their 70s, they're at the more of the end of their rope. um And not knowing the things that they had been through was horrific or that it wasn't okay or knowing how to process it.
Speaker: you know So now you have an educator like me, somebody coming in and just helping them understand a lot of this stuff is normal, but it's not normal. um And it's okay to get to to see someone for it, you know to talk to somebody. I think that the biggest thing I do is a lot of times I encourage people. um to have someone in their life they can work with or that they can talk to in order to give them the help that they need. Help is a very like hard word to hear sometimes, but it's also like, do you want to get better? Do you want to feel better?
Speaker: So then there are other... options, there are resources out there. Let's find the right one. Some people can be combative about how to help someone. Well, that's not going work because I've tried that already. Well, there are other ways that you can do it. um And meeting somebody where they are is how you um really help somebody, right? And where they, trust me, I literally deal with mental health a lot more frequently now.
Speaker: um So I have to also know the person, knowing if it's the mental health or if it's something else sometimes, um especially with the population that I've served for a long time. Sometimes there's a mix of everything. There's the trafficking, there's the drugs, there's the mental health.
Speaker: So imagine all of that getting stirred in one pot and then you get a reaction. It's a lot. And so I still meet it with love. I meet it with um knowledge, with still knowing what to do, how to assist them, where to point them back to. um But I treat it like anything else.
Speaker: You know, like I said, my my new bonus child has um takes medication. and But I'm learning her.
Speaker: to where I can see when she's getting angry enough where I'm like, hey, I need you to put your hands on your heart and I need you to take a deep breath. I need you to take a deep breath. You need you need yourself to take a deep breath.
Speaker: and she'll get herself regulated. She'll get herself regulated. Now, before she might go into an episode, do I not give her medicine? I might, because I'm like, well, let's take your medicine just in case. Because once, even with my daughter though, like, I don't know if she has it yet, but I don't know. But the ADHD, the tension with me is is bad. So, um,
Speaker: Once individuals or people get to a level of where their brain shuts off, it's it's done for. So I think even understanding is like when you're dealing with somebody, when you're a professional, it's checking in with people.
Speaker: Checking people's temperature. That's probably like the best way I can say it. It's like check someone's temperature. can be down when you're a waitress and you're dealing with the family and you see a child having trouble. Like don't make it harder on the family.
Speaker: I know that instantly about ourselves, we think about ourselves, about our safety, versus thinking about how can I serve somebody else. You know, I'll never forget, I'll give an example too, my daughter was having an outburst.
Speaker: She was super upset at dance. And I'll never forget this. I met one of my great friends here in Texas. She's a teacher and she could tell I was stressed. I was overloaded. I just was like, Evelyn, get up, get up, like get up.
Speaker: And she literally, she's a stranger at this point. She's like, do you mind? And I was like, yeah. And she literally picked up my baby. I was like, do you mind? She was like, do you mind if I go to the door with her? Like, I mean, her daughter was ballet too. I'm like, yeah.
Speaker: And we had been talking briefly. Sure. Yeah. But taking my daughter away for a second. I mean, like people could be like, you didn't know her. I mean, she was right there too. it's not like she was going to anything. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It gave me a sense of.
Speaker: And that that probably made your day. That probably blessed your day so much. I mean, you're talking about now as if it was yesterday. Yeah. My gosh. It gave me, when I tell people it, and that's one of my daughter's best friends now, like their best friends. That's awesome. But that's awesome to know that she now has a safe environment to know they like, let's give mommy a break. Mommy needs a break.
Speaker: As a complete stranger who you met over your child's tantrum. And that's community, baby. Right. I love that. Because so, you know, you talk about mental health. I think maybe going into this episode, maybe someone saw the title or something like that're Like, yeah. How do we help victims with mental health? And I think we surprised them in this episode. I think we talked more about like mental health is a prevention more than it should not be a reactionary thing. Like, oh, OK, because of trauma, mental health. yeah It's like, no, it's it starts as a baby, man. Like and everyone, like you said, everyone's wired differently. We have to have preventative measures on how to help mental health because that's what's going to change society. Right. It's it's all about that.
Speaker: Absolutely. and you know And know your expertise level, right? Like I'm not a doctor. i am not a therapist. I'm just learning things that my therapist is learning. And guess what? She's not my former therapist. So I've learned different things and just be open to to reading, open to learning new new interventions, new preventions. But I think that we got to stop like making it look like this evil, demonic, or just this This bad. This is the end of be all. And it's not, you know, because you can coexist.
Speaker: You can write. You can co-regulate. And it's something that even if for some people, it's something that they've been born with, because we know that even the Bible talks about it. Right. When he talks about fools and and I know that the Lord is talking about more so like the brain anatomy and everything like that.
Speaker: That doesn't make it the end of the world for somebody. It's just about meeting them where they are, you know, and I do that all the time, especially with clients. And I just let them know that I'm here and I'm super patient.
Speaker: Patience is everything, you know. So hopefully that is the biggest strength by all means. is It is. It's patience, but it's patient with a child, right? Like certain things for them. Um, they need a lot of patience, but it's also teaching them like what's happening. I went into my daughter, um you know what? I'll even do this. This is like off random for everyone. I went into my daughter's school and in her kindergarten, the teacher, right? Not a kindergarten, first grade.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. This is a picture of a brain. And it's a kid brain. Like, they get to see what is all the little names and stuff and how they do in the funner way of what's happening. Like, this what's happening in your brain when you feel like this. And I just thought it was so cool. And then Evelyn, she has a a breathing globe.
Speaker: The teacher bought this this little cloud that goes... So the kids learn to breathe with it. This is the first grade. And it's like, it's tools like that already teaching them to do those things.
Speaker: Preventative stuff, right? To help them because guess what? the The beautiful thing about us learning more about mental health and unfortunately people um dealing with different diagnosis or things that they have to be on me medication for we now have some preventative stuff so teaching kids now how to really breathe and teach in them certain tools to fight anxiety like that's what we're doing so we just have to look at it and from a different lens I love that.
Speaker: Lori, thank you for sharing this. Thank you for coming on. Yeah. yeah Joining me with such a a sensitive topic. And I hope everyone that is watching, i hope you all know that there are resources out there that you don't have to be ashamed of saying, Hey, you know what? I need to talk to somebody.
Speaker: I need to talk to somebody or, Hey, I need some help or, you know, I want to learn more a little bit about how I can help my nervous system in my body. So we will see you all soon.
