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Can the Seattle Sounders Stop the Spiral?
1.2k Plays9 days ago
The Seattle Sounders’ nightmare run continued with a 1-0 loss to Philadelphia, marking a fifth straight defeat in MLS play as the club continues to reel since returning from the FIFA World Cup break. As we navigate our way through these trying times, it's time for an edition of “Cope or Hope” where we discuss every potential path back to contention - from the returns of Cristian Roldan, Yéimar and Pedro de la Vega to whether Seattle’s struggling No. 9 committee can still get the job done. Then, we preview a daunting trip to Providence Park, just weeks after Portland handed Seattle a humiliating 5-1 defeat. Can the Sounders stop the spiral, or will the Timbers deliver another devastating blow?
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Context
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone, Ari here. I'm excited to tell you about one of our sponsors, Hakes and Ferments. Hickson is a Seattle-based hot sauce and vinegar brand, making some of the most flavorful hot sauce around. We've partnered up to craft a small batch green blended hot sauce fermented to perfection with bright flavor and medium heat.
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We get a lot of emails here at Lobbing Scorchers. Mailing lists we forgot to unsubscribe from, recruiters begging us to go work for FIFA. But one of the most common is people who want to know how we maintain such an effortlessly classy yet fashion-forward wardrobe. Mostly me, I think, but Noah too, I guess.
00:00:47
Speaker
Well, the answer is our sponsor, Podium Menswear. Podium is based in Edmonds and they carry really quality stuff like Filson and Red Wings. They cover all the basics and also have some stuff that's not as easy to get here.
00:00:59
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00:01:10
Speaker
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00:01:55
Speaker
This episode of Lobbing Scorchers was previously recorded and streamed live on youtube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers. If you want to listen or catch these episodes live, see the video, and see all the rest of our content, go to youtube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers or lobbingscorchers.com slash YouTube.
Seattle Sounders' Current Challenges
00:02:17
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Quite the scorcher today. Well it's gonna be a scorcher.
00:02:38
Speaker
Good morning, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers Kickoff presented by QED d Coffee. I'm Ari, that's Nico, and we got a big show for you all here this morning. The Seattle Sounders are spiraling, folks. They have lost one, two, three, four, five matches in a row. It's not good, and their reward is a trip to Providence park to take on the Portland Timbies, the same Portland Timbies side that just absolutely smoked this team five to one last time they played at Lumen field. Now the Sounders are going to Providence park to try and avenge that defeat, but they are losers of five in a row going into this match. Nico, we are going to assess whether or not the rave green can pull out of this here this morning. ah But yeah,
00:03:27
Speaker
What's going on, man? It's dark times. It's tough out there right now. The people are unhappy. How are you doing, Nico? I am unhappy as well, Ari, but happy to be here. Of course, uh, that is the one bright light. The, the, the light at the end of the tunnel for me is that I get to come here and digest it all over again.
00:03:50
Speaker
I did rewatch the game this morning and, um, looked a little bit better than maybe did life slightly better. and in And just in terms of some things I want to try to stay positive on, but the reality is, is that this team is on a free fall and I'm hoping that there's a parachute or an umbrella, like, you know, something, maybe some, um I don't know, something that could just hold this team back, just to keep them from, from spiraling out of control. um
00:04:23
Speaker
Maybe it's getting some guys back. Maybe it's some pep talk. So we could talk about it. But but there's definitely a a fear that this thing is not going to get any better. And going to Providence Park, you know, it's not easy.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yeah, and whether they can get out of it, that's exactly what we're going to be talking
Cope or Hope: Sounders' Improvement Strategies
00:04:43
Speaker
about here this morning. We have got, folks, a round of everyone's favorite game. It's Cope or Hope. We've played different iterations of this game in the past, but we're going to make it an official segment, the crux of the show here this morning. I'm going to lay down the potential paths that the Seattle Sounders have out of this, and we're going to discuss whether there's actual hope,
00:05:06
Speaker
in these paths out of this, these theoretical paths out of this, or if we're, or if it's just delusional cope and if this might just be what we're looking at for the rest of the season until some drastic changes are made. So excited to get into that. And then we're going to be previewing this Portland Timbs game in a little more detailed detail later on in the show as well. If we have time at the very end, maybe we hit some stuff from around the league, but i don't know. I feel like, uh, with how egregious this stretch is for the Seattle Sounders, that's kind of what we got to lock in on right now. And, uh, yeah, I'm honestly, you know, I'm excited to get into it, even if, uh, it's not the most ideal results of all time at the current moment to say the least, it at least, ah it's it's resulted in some interesting discussions on the post game show. And, uh, what I appreciate about, uh, you guys, our audience is how locked in you stay even in these trying times. So, uh, Excited to get into it.
00:06:00
Speaker
If, uh, before we get into it, I do have to let you all know that QED d coffee is Lobbing Scorchers kickoff title sponsor. Uh, go to lobbing scorchers.com slash coffee to get your subscription today. Uh, code LS 74 for anything, 25% off anything on the site site wide. So, uh, support a great local business and support the show, support our title sponsor,
00:06:22
Speaker
And shout out to everyone who came to our Panini sticker trading events. I know there has been demand for another one, and I believe that we are going to try and do that because I know people have to finish out their Panini stickers. And the first two events were such a big hit. So ah keep an eye out for any news on that. And we also have some exciting news for Lobbing Scorchers this week.
00:06:42
Speaker
pertaining to our website and some fun stuff that we're planning on launching with that. So keep an eye out for that as well. Also like the video sub to the channel, the road to 4k is alive and well, we are actually closing in on the road to 4k. So appreciate everyone who's helped us get close to this milestone, but we do need to pass this milestone, but ah all right, Nico, are you ready?
00:07:04
Speaker
for a round of Coper Hope. I have a lot of topics written down. Basically, how this is going to work is I'm going to lay down several theoretical paths that the Seattle Sounders have out of this current five-game losing streak and just general malaise that they're in right now.
00:07:21
Speaker
and And we're going to discuss if there is actual hope in what I'm saying or if it's delusional cope and it's not going to work. So does that make sense? Are you ready to ah are you ready to get into it Let's do it, Ari. Let's do it.
00:07:35
Speaker
All right, let's do it. And as always, if you have thoughts on the Coper Hope discussion, go ahead and drop em in drop them in chat. Give us your thoughts and questions, takes, observations, agendas, super chats, whatever the case may be. And we'll get to as many as we can. But... ah All right, Nico, the first thing I wanted to talk about regarding Coper Hope here this morning is ah is Christian Roldan.
00:08:01
Speaker
Because obviously during this last brutal stretch for the team, he has not been playing. He took a knock when he was on World Cup duty with the USMNT. So that's a glaring absence.
00:08:13
Speaker
to To say the least. And Theorette, I guess before we talk about Christian Roldan, do you have any like updates on whether he's going to be back for this Portland game? or do you have any kind of gauge or read on that in particular? And then we'll talk about more of the overarching implications of his return.
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, as far as I know, he's not... ah He won't be back. I mean, just going off of the initial timeline that ah we got, usually that timeline is either on point or I tend to add a week or two when it comes to things. um but What I have heard ah right before we were told that he was going to be out about a week, I mean, about a month, apologies, four weeks, was that they they are being careful because it's a re-aggravated injury, right? but the
00:09:07
Speaker
To where he started, him trying to get back in and playing for United Nations national team during the World re-aggravated that. um And
Impact of Returning Players
00:09:16
Speaker
those sort of muscle injuries can be tricky if you continue to play on them. Thankfully, it sounds like it's not – ah While going through everything that you look at in terms of the muscle, there isn't like a tear or anything of that nature, but they are being very, very careful. So I ah don't expect them to be back for at least another week. And that's just going back to training. We'll see what that looks like in terms of his rehab and, you know, how many minutes he gets. do you i mean, he's an experienced player, right? So it's it's more about making sure that
00:09:51
Speaker
he is um being assessed as soon as that week of training and happens, right? you You bring him in the week of training, you put him through certain ah level of of, you know, vamping his is training, you you go back and you assess that injury, see where that's at, you get him take X amount of shots, you reassess that. So I think that there's still some some time for him to be be back.
00:10:19
Speaker
All right. Well, honestly, that update right there is probably one for the cop pile because it sounds like he's not going to be back. I mean, he's definitely not going to be back for this Portland game. it sounds like he's probably not going to be back for a couple weeks after that. And then, like you said, even then, he has to get back into training. He has to ramp back up. He has to get fit. And then he has to get back to his previous level. So there's a lot of projection there. and cope going on right at the start but i'll lay down i'll lay down the case for both whether uh the return of christian roldon is hope or cope uh the case for hope christian roldon is genuinely the heart and soul of this team and that can sound like intangible sports talk fluff like what does that really mean when you're playing this bad but his impact is extremely tangible i think he immediately gives them a much more functional midfield he covers ground he wins second balls he connects possession he provides the defensive awareness that's been
00:11:15
Speaker
missing since the Hassani Dotson Snyder Purnell combination has been the first choice double pivot. His return should help everyone around him in a force multiplying way. Theoretically, whoever partners with him is getting a dependable reference point instead of being asked to hold everything together. And I think the leadership component matters during a five game losing streak. This team looks fragile and it looks rudderless. Christian is probably their best candidate to restore emotional stability,
00:11:44
Speaker
which I think this team needs right now and competitive edge. So that's before we even get to Yamar and Pedro de la Vega, who we're going to talk about, but getting Christian back should theoretically raise this team's floor considerably. And they don't necessarily need him to transform the attack immediately. They need him to make this look like a coherent MLS team again. And if there's anyone in the vicinity that can do that, I think that he is the main candidate. So that would be, those are the reasons why ah getting him back,
00:12:14
Speaker
Could really not just help this situation a little bit but make a huge tangible needle moving difference. The case. Yeah. or Yeah. Go go for it. Yeah. i was No, I just but I wanted to add on that. I i mean, Christian Rodan coming back doesn't just raise your floor, but I see your ceiling as it is. I mean, he's someone that makes this system better in in all accounts. Right. When he comes to being in possession, which is something that the Sounders haven't had since he's been gone, they just don't control tempo. They're unable to ah have positive possession spells. There are moments where...
00:12:48
Speaker
even in transition, the the lack of of quickness and and ability to ah progress pass the ball has stumped many attacks, right? And there's other elements, but I think Cristiano Roldan is a big part of that.
00:13:04
Speaker
goes back to leadership, something that we have put that in in in the question category. Where is that coming from? He's someone that definitely provides that. But look, one of the things that I thought was okay after rewatching the game today. Was that at least, look, as Sonny Dodson had a better game than the last one. People aren't going to like this take. People aren't know that. I know that. But but I think it's one of his, I think he he did better than he had ah as of recent even. um I thought that there was problems, of course. People are probably going to point to the giveaway that he gets that eventually leads to a goal that gets disallowed because of a very slight
00:13:48
Speaker
potential offside call. But at the end of the day, I thought that defensively, which is what I want to see. If Christian's not here, think Asani just needs to be a guy that's dropping in between the center bags, having to just come back, doing a lot of that dirty work, just maybe simplify his game. And I thought that's what you did. Now you got into trouble later down in that second half. Because the Sounders were trying to get back in it. They were trying to get an equalizer. And I think when you ask a Sonny to do too many things and trying to really play that Christian Roldan role is when things don't go your way. But at least I saw a player that if you simplify his role and you allow him to just do A, B instead of a B, and c you could have a little bit of a better player there.
00:14:33
Speaker
Snyder-Burnell, another game where he wasn't great. He was okay. um and And so that those pivot positions for this this team are essential. They're they're the pillars of of this thing working and what has had this team at its best when it does work that way. So getting Christian Roldan would be important because can he play next to Hassani? Sure. can Can he make Snyder-Burnell Back to what we saw him earlier this season, because maybe you have a certain level of chemistry, of assurance. There's a lot of players that just fill this safety blanket next to another player. And I think maybe he's one of those in Christian Roldan. So he just makes everybody better. But mainly what I've thought has been a big problem for this team that not a lot of people talk about is just the pivots.
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I think the pivots have been... they they were like They were better in the Philly game, at least defensively. ah But just in possession and in in attack, it still feels like it's just not anywhere remotely close to the level ah that they had at that spot on the field with Christian and Obed last year, which was ah one of, if not the best...
00:15:44
Speaker
midfield pairings in that spot in the league to now it's just, there's a big gap there. And so hopefully ah Christian coming back can, can alleviate that a little bit, but I'll, I'll lay down the case for, ah for cope.
00:15:58
Speaker
He it's, this is still just one player returning from a significant absence. It's asking a lot for him to walk back in and single-handedly reverse a five game collapse. I don't think any one player can do that. Christian can stabilize possession and improve the press. but he isn't the creative attacker who solves what we saw in Philly. The attack was almost completely devoid of ideas and threat, and his skill set is not the one that's going to solve that. And the problems extend beyond central midfield, too. As much as we've harshed on the Hassani-Snyder double pivot, ah diminished veteran production, questionable roster roster depth, tactical stagnation in a lineup,
00:16:37
Speaker
missing difference makers at multiple levels those are all issues beyond just christian rolled on being out so like you got to think about that and there's also i think as someone pointed out in chat there's no guarantee he immediately returns at his usual level or can handle a full workload okay like so yeah yeah he's like he's behind it right now he's not going to be back honestly from from hearing your update he's probably not going to be back until either during leagues cup or after leagues cup. I probably, I'm looking at it as the the far end of this, but I don't know how much, like how they, they're probably thinking of it. Like maybe we just got to limp into the playoffs and then he'll be back around then. But it's like, I don't know how much time you have in that way. Like things have either got to get way better without him or you need him back soon. So I guess overall my take is that that it's, it's hope But provided the theory is that Christian starts to turn around and not that he completes it, if that makes sense. Believing that him coming back can stop the bleeding, I think, is completely reasonable. Believing that he alone transforms them back into a contender is where it starts becoming a little more cope. But if he shores up the midfield, restores this team's baseline identity, like we've been talking about, and then you know we'll talk about Yamar and De La Vega right now. ah But that's at least a credible ah path back to...
00:17:55
Speaker
competitiveness, I think. And at least that's what we've got to hang our hat on right now. It's all we have. ah But ah all right, Nico, anything outlast on ah Christian? And then I want to talk some Pedro de la Vega.
00:18:06
Speaker
No, the the only thing I would add is that because of everything you just laid out, which is absolutely correct, and and I second completely, that's why I was a little bit irritated that if this duo of pivots had not been working over the last couple of games, I wanted to see a change just to make a change, just to see if anything else would work out.
00:18:29
Speaker
People immediately asked, Hey, you know, who, who would you put in? What, what, what is the change you're looking for? And at the end of the day, look, I, I wanted to see Peter there. That's just an opinion. Yeah. ah I still go back to that first game on the road against San Jose where he came in and he played that position and I thought he was good at it. But just having a little bit of flair, some fight. I mean, you saw he was an injection of...
00:18:55
Speaker
adrenaline He was a spark plug coming off of the bench. It would have been nice to just see how it would play it out. Maybe it didn't work out. You could pull him off, bring Snyder Burnell. You know what you're getting out Snyder Burnell. I just wanted to see something different there. I know that James is going to have a heart attack and and and maybe... try to you know find out where I live when I say this, but I was even okay with just dropping Albert ah next to Hassani. If Hassani was going to just stay being a guy that was going to be defensive, which I thought he did well in this particular game and he was going to be covering space, then just try it out. Just test it just to see what's different just so you can add Jesus Ferreira at that 10th position and you don't keep him on the bench, bring him in cold and then expect him to change the game. So I just...
00:19:39
Speaker
I wanted to see a little bit more creativeness from Brian there at that specific position because it is such an important part of what he tries to do with his system. So that's all.
00:19:51
Speaker
I actually have heard Brigade argue that if they're going to insist on having Rusnak on the field, then dropping him back a line and putting Ferreira at the 10 is the better way to ah to do it. So maybe you actually have common ground there. But I mean, you know i don't I don't love that idea, but Rusnak did do that.
00:20:10
Speaker
i mean, they won CCL in 22 with him doing that. So I don't know. Maybe there's something to that. That that seems kind of out there at this point, like grasping at straws. But you know i i feel like continuing to run the this midfield pairing, it just...
00:20:28
Speaker
we've We've talked about it. That part of the field is so important to this system that if it's not working, it kind of has a ripple effect and makes everything else crash and burn. So like maybe, yeah, just changing something up with that. It would be nice to see something different, I guess, from our perspective. But clearly Schmetz and the coaching staff...
00:20:50
Speaker
feel like they can't do that right now for whatever reason. ah Nico, next, Coper Hope. And here's one. People are going to like this one. And this is where we might start getting into ah the true cope. But Nico, Coper Hope, Pedro De La Vega.
00:21:05
Speaker
Bigger, bigger X factor than people realize. Okay. And I get it. i get it. Go ahead and go ahead and flame me. ah I just want to be clear right now. Okay. I'm laying out the case for hope and the case for cope, not ah presenting necessarily what I actually
Pedro De La Vega's Potential Impact
00:21:24
Speaker
believe. Although I think everyone knows that I've been the one that has been a proponent of the idea that De La Vega could be an actual difference maker this season, as much as people don't want to hear it. but look, I get it. All right. The skepticism is completely understandable. His Seattle career has been constantly interrupted and nobody, not myself or anybody else should confidently project uninterrupted health going forward. And the idea that, oh, okay, if he comes in, he's the savior. And this attack is going to be looking like leagues cup 2025 again. That's not what I'm saying, but I will say this.
00:21:56
Speaker
I will say this. If we are making the case for hope. All right. That's all I'm doing. I'm making the case for hope. All right. The idea that he's never put together a healthy, productive run isn't totally accurate, Nico. If I gave you the over-under on how many games Pedro De La Vega played all competitions for this team last year, and I said it at 25, would you take over or under?
00:22:22
Speaker
Oh. Um... Look, up I tend to be an optimist um and considering the the difference of this particular injury.
00:22:34
Speaker
No, no, no. I mean, last year. Sorry. How many did he play last year? Oh, oh, I go under. 37. 37 competitions. I got it. I mean feel free to fact check me on this. i can I have him as at 26 MLS regular season appearances, five leagues cup appearances where he got a tournament MVP, three in CCC, two in club world cup. So wow you got me there. That's a great exercise. because i keep I saw it differently in my head.
00:23:03
Speaker
Okay, but like, and that's not to, that's not to wave away the injury issues at all. I think like we all have seen what's happened since he's been a DP on this team. And the fact that he has not been available a lot ah is obviously something that has hamstrung this team and this roster. No argument there. But all I'm saying is the fact that he actually played 37 times last year, it at least shows. And like, if you look at his Lanus career as well, there were times where he was actually playing. So the idea that it's been this Jordan Morris situation where he plays like two games and then like immediately gets hurt again and he never plays and there's never been there's never been a stretch period of time where he's been productive. That's not and entirely true. OK, and I do I do think that like if he does if he does get back and they can actually get him playing. You know, everyone talks about all the time how this roster lacks in Evander or like a Denny Buonga impact type player, a dynamic attacker who can just be a game wrecker individually and create something when the broader attack isn't functioning. I mean, the Sounders theory was originally that De La Vega is that guy. But I think the reason it feels like they don't have one is because their theoretical version of that has not been available
00:24:19
Speaker
consistently enough, but when he was healthy, confident and informed during leagues cup, he looked like that type of player. And maybe some people disagree on that, but that is, I think that's one thing that I have been holding onto is just that like the talent level is genuinely, i mean, look, You can say comping him to like a Bawanga and Evander. You can say that's ridiculous if you want. I don't care, man. I know what I saw last year. I know what I saw in League's Cup. This guy is that guy if he plays. And i I feel strongly about that much. So I don't think it's projecting some hypothetical ceiling based on a scouting report. We saw him reach that level against high-level opposition during a trophy run last year in League's Cup.
00:25:01
Speaker
MVP Pedro De La Vega was a god-tier footballer. I will stand on that. So I think Christian can restore the team's structure and floor theoretically, but De La Vega is the player who could actually raise the ceiling and make this a dangerous attack again. So that's the case for hope. And I was laying down things that i actually do think to an extent there, but that that's more just the case for hope of Pedro De La Vega making. And impact Nico real quick. And then I'll lay down the case for cope because there's an equally good case for that. I will admit, and I'm about to make the case. All right. I'm not even looking to chat right now, but if you're flaming me in chat for that, I'm going to lay down the case for cope right now. But Nico, I mean, Emma, is that, is that, ah why don't you, yeah is that delusional or do you think there is anything to that?
00:25:42
Speaker
No, I think that there's some truth to that. There's a lot of truth to what Pedro has shown when he's been healthy. ah There is clear by what you just proved when you asked me that question, that maybe we foresee Pedro playing less games that he really did, because that's just kind of the mindset. And sometimes we don't,
00:26:07
Speaker
tend to make assumptions, even if we we've been there, we've seen it. So that that that alone is is is extremely interesting. But to your point,
00:26:19
Speaker
It is undeniable that Pedro has the talent level to be more than an impact player for this team, but actually add a whole other facet of eliteness that that this team needs. right it It would take an anemic attack to be in a good attack just by him walking in.
00:26:42
Speaker
fresh off, not knowing where he's at in rhythm, like just having him there with his intensity level, his ability to come inside the channels, his mid range shot, ah whether, you know, you play him inverted, when you play him on, on the right side, his delivery and services on the ball, his ability to take one of the one players, you know, so many of our fans were,
00:27:05
Speaker
upset because Georgie was leaving because Georgie has that X factor. It's entertaining. It's it's a um a player that you want to put on the field and see him perform, but he doesn't have that level of um cachet or pedigree that you see out of a Pedro de la Vega, well, everything's sharper, everything's just more technical, and he is an X factor, no no doubt about it. i mean, he has shown you with this particular team that he can take over a game at any given moment. So I totally agree that if you were to bring him back and he was to stay healthy, he would be an immediate game changer. Going back to this ah you ah this Philadelphia Union game, it was so frustrating to see Paul Arriola
00:27:51
Speaker
ah someone who I really like, stump so many transition moments or having to come back deep and a bad first touch leads to a turnover and all of a sudden the union's on the run. Look, i as a winger specifically and as an inverted winger and and having to play some of that dual 10 and coming into those inside channels, he just wasn't very good at that. And, you know, Jesus plays that position, sure. But can a guy, Peter La Vega, play it? Absolutely. I just, I think that you at this moment in time,
00:28:24
Speaker
If you go back to the Union game, Paul Rothrock had a bad game. And Rothrock is your only white threat that has been working over, i don't know, the the last five games that you've lost. all Right? So...
00:28:40
Speaker
So he's your goal scorer, right? you right He's your leading goal scorer. He's doing all these things. That's why it's kind of hard to criticize him. But when he's having a bad game, there's nothing. This often has has nothing. I mean, there was literally nothing different that the union was doing. to They were almost daring Seattle to play wide. They were daring him to play wide, and Seattle couldn't do it. Peter Kingston came in. He started doing some of those overloads, and that's when you saw things change a little bit. But having a Pedro de la Vega just – Solves those issues gives you one more player that could really take over and it's what you need Obviously, we still have the striker issue. No doubt about that but having another player that can take over from those wide areas is just essential for this team
00:29:26
Speaker
A lot of people are pointing out that the appearances to minutes rate on those 37 appearances that I mentioned are not that good. 37 appearances for 1700 minutes. Yeah. Okay. I get, yeah. That's stop undermining my narratives chat. Okay. all right. I'm trying to cope over here. And ah as, as I do that, I'll lay down the, the case for cope on the Pedro de la Vega topic, which is that ah aside from the minutes thing that people pointed out, like, yeah, He had a lot of appearances, but a lot of them were him trying to get fit. And also, he basically never went 90. It was always he was going like between 65 and 70 and getting pulled off. So that's true, too. But even outside of that, 37 appearances last year definitely does not erase the larger injury pattern. And counting on him to remain available is still an inherently volatile bet.
00:30:17
Speaker
That's how I'll put it. And even when he returns, he's going to like Christian, he's going to need time to regain fitness, confidence, and sharpness. This team needs points immediately. They need to turn this around now. They can't wait indefinitely for leagues cup de la Vega to reappear. Uh, and then also, you know, comparing him to other game changers as I did, such as Evander and Denny Bwonga,
00:30:37
Speaker
you know i really think on the level he's demonstrated, that's merited, but you you do have to give an important qualifier with that, which is those players have sustained elite match winning production over full seasons multiple times over. And De La Vega has shown that level, but nowhere near that consistency. so Uh, if you're, if I'm going to talk about his level, I got to acknowledge that as well. And they're also, you know, I also talk about leagues cup 2025, God to your day, La Vega all the time, but there is a danger in treating one extraordinary tournament as his default form rather than the high end of his range. So,
00:31:12
Speaker
yeah it's not like a for sure given that he's going to be at that top, top level week in, week out when he gets back, that's still a projection. And one dynamic attacker also doesn't automatically repair all the structural issues that we have seen during this losing streak. So all told, I would say my verdict on this is that it's, there's hope in this, but it's the most volatile kind of hope saying De La Vega will definitely stay healthy and reproduce leagues cup MVP form. Yeah.
00:31:38
Speaker
That's that's cope. If you're guaranteeing it saying he can do it and has already shown evidence of doing it and possesses exactly the skillset that this lifeless attack needs. That's that's hope that's hope. And you know, Seattle might actually have,
00:31:54
Speaker
have the game-breaking player that people are talking about. Their problem is that they've never been able to reliably access him. But if Christian restores the floor and De La Vega approaches his 2025 ceiling, there is a real, not imaginary mechanism for ah for turning this situation around. So that's kind of how I see that. Nico, any last thoughts there? And then we can keep it pushing to the, we're going to talk about the number nines next. That's going fun.
00:32:17
Speaker
yeah I just, I think if you dismiss, the possibility that having Pedro back is ah immediately going to change this team and potentially up your range and and and your percentage of of making a run in this tournament, then you're not being true to yourself or or you're not trying to see the reality, but betting for sure that that's going to be the only way that you need to help this team, it's also malpractice and it's also wrong. And I don't see this team, even with Pedro back, being able to get to a final, it it it helps your percentage, but obviously there is more issues than that. And absolutely, look, the reality is that for...
00:33:09
Speaker
As long as Pedro is with the Sounders, there's going to be skepticism about his health. And that's just what's going to have to happen. If Pedro de la Vega proves it on the field and he continues to stay healthy, then that's fine. But i ah I'm not going to tell people to not be...
00:33:26
Speaker
all in the Pedro Del Vega bus, because I understand why you wouldn't want to get on and you don't want to be hurt in that fashion. So that's, that's totally all right. So I do think that there's validity to both sides of this take.
00:33:42
Speaker
All right, Nico, let's keep it pushing and let's talk about the the number nines. And ah are you guys are you guys ready for some all-time cope? Because i'm going to have I'm about to lay out the case for Hope with the number nine position for the Seattle Sounders, which ah to lay out the context has just been, i mean, it's not been...
00:34:00
Speaker
they They still don't have a goal from a starting number nine all season, which is just an unbelievable stat. And, you know, don't worry. i know there's people out there that are demanding, ah you know, Lobbing Scorchers has taken some criticism on this topic. People are demanding culpless.
00:34:16
Speaker
from myself on this topic because i did ah I defended the state of the number nine position at one juncture. And I was also the the yeah ah the guy who argued that Danny Mussovsky's 2025 wasn't necessarily an outlier, which, and Nico, I heard you on what we learned with the Jeremiah, and you were saying that ah the Moose believers were were naive, which I think in and hindsight, I might have been a little bit. So I'll acknowledge and I'll talk about that. But first, let me just lay down the all-time cope of ah making the case for for hope for the Seattle Sounders number nine position. All right. Bear with me here and go ahead. Flame me in chat as I lay this down. ah Do your worst. Again, I'll qualify and say this isn't necessarily what I believe anymore, but I'm going to make the case anyway. The case for hope, Nico, on the number nine position for the Seattle Sounders. All right. Here we go. ah All right. The personnel.
00:35:11
Speaker
Not ideal. but's ah Let's get that out of the way right now. But there is at least some precedent for functional production. Moose did as as bad as ah as much as the Moose thing has fallen off a cliff this year. He scored 18 goals last year, so it's not like we're inventing the possibility that he can finish chances in this system. It's a lot of the same sort of supporting cast. all right And Osaze, also not that great this year, but has shown that he can provide occasional goals when the team creates clear looks for him. So even if he hasn't demonstrated that he consistently can consistently lead the line, ah he does have a few goals in in his pocket.
00:35:47
Speaker
And striker production, it's environmental, partly, man. All right. the Current midfield isn't progressing the ball effectively. The attack lacks individual creation and the service into the box has been abysmal.
00:35:59
Speaker
So you can blame, you can blame the strikers for that if you, if you want, but it's not all their fault. A lot of the, a lot of it is what they're both service-based strikers. And if they're not getting chances, they're not going to be scoring goals. And when this team was generating chances at a high level last year, they were scoring goals. Moose scored a lot of them in Osase.
00:36:18
Speaker
was getting good looks and scoring decently consistently when he got the chances too. All right. ah Also Christian's return, like we've talked about, it could restore control and connectivity that could help the forwards. De La Vega, like we've talked about, could distort defenses and generate chances. The chance generation with a cleaner bill of health should theoretically improve and get the number nines back to at least closer to where they were last year.
Addressing the Number Nine Position
00:36:44
Speaker
Okay. And that would theoretically create more room for the root snacks of the world, the Ferreras of the world, the Roth rocks of the world, and give the number nines actual service instead of them asking, asking them to manufacture something on their own, which neither of them have the skillset to do. So neither Moose nor Osase needs to become an elite striker. If the supporting attack becomes legitimately dangerous again, Seattle may, only need competent movement and league average finishing from that position. Is that possible? Is that too much to ask? I mean, I don't know, but it's not the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life, especially based on what we saw last year. And we've also seen Sounders teams contend without building the entire attack around a dominant high volume number nine, like Rui Diaz. So a collective solution isn't necessarily impossible. Nico,
00:37:33
Speaker
what do you think ah of that case for for hope with the with the number nines? Did I do a good job? You did a good job. You did a good job. I mean, if you're gonna cope, that's the argument you wanna start with, right? I'm making the case more for coping, yeah. But yeah. But but I mean, look, that that that really is, there's there's validity.
00:37:53
Speaker
On last year, right? I mean, you're you're hoping to replicate what last year as a collective unit, I think was 35 goals in a collective of Jordan, Moose and Osase. The problem with that is that right now you're maybe getting to 12, 15, if that's not, you you might not even make half of that this year.
00:38:17
Speaker
But can it happen? Sure. I mean, look, services into the box, at creating better chances. And what the team has lacked is attacking movements with some purpose and attacking space. And that's why i thought that yesterday, once the substitutions came on, or not yesterday, but um on Saturday, it looked better, right? And and I think Jesus, although he had a bad first touch on that first shot coming in cold, I thought he started attacking space a lot better and he started creating a lot of gaps to,
00:38:50
Speaker
in the Philadelphia Union defense. So you can definitely see where if you're creating better chances, a guy like Danny, who is, you know, a fox in the box and he's going to be able to put one away, but you've got to give it to him there. And that's where this team hasn't really been good at. Crosses have been terrible. Set pieces have have been disastrous. I mean, you have not been able to give you your strikers any opportunities, whether it's on the run of play or of a set pieces. So it's, you know, that's part of it. I do like Osas' effort, and I think he created a couple of counters yesterday that didn't really end up in anything, but I like the intent. I like where when he gets on that big horse and he just tries to get through people. I think he can create some positive things, but you need to get better in wide areas. You need people better in transition, man. that This team last year was so good on on transition transition moments, and and that's been...
00:39:46
Speaker
Not there. And so if you can create those moments for your strikers that have better opportunities, then yeah, maybe they should have a couple more goals at the very least when when I look at the lineup. But going back to reality, it is difficult to be excited about a position where the ceiling is so low and the good moments are basically one year.
00:40:15
Speaker
Yeah, here's the case for Cope. A ah starting Sounders number nine, like I said, has yet to score this season. Absolutely insane statistic, honestly, for us to be sitting here on July 27th and still saying that. And at some point that stops being entirely about the service. And since the restart, the Muso Saze stack hasn't been quiet. It's just been downright. There's just been nothing.
00:40:37
Speaker
going on. I couldn't name anything that's going on. Neither one of them has consistently held the ball, connected attacks, threatened in behind. Osase did a little bit in Philly, but nothing, like you said, that led to anything. The limited opportunities that have been available, they haven't finished. Moose's 18-goal season is real evidence, but it also, in hindsight, like you were saying, Nico, was probably the high-water mark of his career rather than a dependable baseline. Osase has shown he can occasionally score when chances fall to him he has not shown that he can provide the consistent movement combination play and finishing required from a starting striker or a contender and the whole theory depends on christian getting back and immediately stabilizing the midfield it also depends on de la vega staying healthy and rediscovering elite form and that improvement force multiplying rusnak ferreira and rothrock and that's all before it finally reaches the striker so The position will be fine if we fix everything around it is usually an indirect way of admitting that the position is a problem. So even if Seattle can manufacture enough collective offense to survive the regular season, the lack of a dependable number nine becomes harder to hide in a playoff game against an elite opponent. You know, Moose was actually ripping it up in the playoffs against Minnesota last year, but that was a different time.
00:41:55
Speaker
And it has not worked like that this year. So, ah yeah, no, I mean, this whole situation is, I think, the definition of cope with a narrow path to becoming ah to becoming hope. But the argument is not that Moose and Osaze are like.
00:42:11
Speaker
Secretly good enough to anchor a contender, it's that the Sounders might be able to sufficiently build a functional ecosystem around them. ah That they no longer have to carry the load like that. And, you know, that could happen.
00:42:25
Speaker
Moose did not. We did not hallucinate 18 goals from Moose last year. That happened. And Seattle's current chance creation would make almost any striker look worse. You know, like Rui Diaz on this team, I don't think would be able to do that much with the chance creation at what it is right now. So, but when your theory requires fixing the midfield, getting De La Vega healthy, unlocking three other attackers and dramatically improving the service before the number nine position becomes acceptable, that's, ah that is cope. So that's, ah that's all I have on the number nines, Nico, anything else? And then we can move on to a more.
00:43:00
Speaker
Yeah. Well that you could argue having a elite nine, ah maybe jumpstarts the rest of the offense. Yeah.
00:43:12
Speaker
ah Look, I thought Osasin yesterday, he has this breakaway where he um ends up losing ah the the opportunity to score because Nathan Harrell kind of slides tackle from from behind, very precise, very good tackle, and he gets his shot blocked.
00:43:31
Speaker
Another striker at another level, he is cutting inside because he knows that that's where the defender is going to go. And then, you know, if youre able if you have an ambidestuous type of striker that could put it away with his left, then – and i don't want to make it sound simple. I'm saying this is the argument if you had a different type of striker, that that that might jumpstart the whole game. And you're able to equalize there and getting going. And maybe you have a guy that can – create more difficulties in men marking for this team, and you open up gaps and you do other things. So so that's what I would like to see out of that struggle position. And I still think that out of what we have available right now, or the Sounders have available, Osase gives you the most...
00:44:22
Speaker
ah feasible way to get you going. that thought that there were decent moments in in Link Up from Osasio as well. um But the reality is that this team needs someone else. Jordan's not going to come back for a while.
00:44:38
Speaker
Jordan, and unfortunately, started to look like you need to figure out what which we've said from a very long time that you you had been needing to bring somebody in to take the torch. And so that's where it all lays down is is you need to bring in somebody to help distract your position.
00:44:56
Speaker
All right, Nico, next topic, Cope or Hope.
Defensive Stability with Yamar's Return
00:45:00
Speaker
Yamar's return can ah fix the defense, which I have this written down, even though I feel like ah the defense has stabilized a little bit since the five-goal debacle against the Timbs. I definitely thought that Hawks and Tino Lopez were a bright spot of the Philly game, and the Austin game got away late, but up until the last five minutes of regulation in that game, I thought the defense was hanging with it. up but But I've been saying that I think Yamar coming back could be as consequential to this team ah as Christian or De La Vega. So let's just talk about the impact that his return could have. I mean, for me, I think this team has missed his leadership so much and just like his his organization and his vocal leadership along the back line. But just in in general, like I think you see the difference that he makes to this team. Best peer defender on the roster and arguably,
00:45:55
Speaker
ah One of, if not the players that Seattle can least adequately replace, you know, his value goes beyond winning individual duels. He's a mistake eraser, defends in space and transition, totally out allows the entire back line to play more aggressively because it knows that he will clean up the danger. It gives everyone else more confidence to play free, which is everyone ah everyone's in their heads right now. And I think...
00:46:19
Speaker
ah Christian will help with that, but Yamar will help with that a lot. And yeah like like I said, Seattle's defense actually was not disastrous in Philadelphia. Stu Hawks, who I do want to talk about, and Tino Lopez, they they competed, they limited the damage, and they kept the Sounders within one goal despite receiving literally no help from the attack. All right. They got scored on one time and got zero help from the offense. 0.01 XG, which that's honestly, that's criminal. Yeah.
00:46:44
Speaker
especially when you're starting to 19 year old center backs that are actually competing out there. But that suggests that the defense may not require a complete rebuild, adding Yamar to a unit that already showed signs of competence could elevate it quickly.
00:46:59
Speaker
And then, you know, Christian coming back to would simultaneously help by protecting the center backs. And Yamar also, he he restores clarity to the depth chart. Stu Hawks, Tino Lopez, the other young guys, they can play appropriate supporting roles instead of being asked to anchor this whole unit. And then ah Alex Rodon, who we haven't talked about too, if he also gets back, you could conceivably go from a severely depleted back line to something close to a preferred defense within a relatively short period. So I think out of everything, this is the biggest problem.
00:47:33
Speaker
hope where I don't think there's much of like coping going on. I think this could help a lot. It's the most straightforward hope on the board. You don't need Yamar to single-handedly transform a terrible defense. You need him to strengthen a unit that showed in Philly may already have a functional baseline. And then Christian's return on top of that should reduce the amount of emergency defending required, which God knows there's been a lot of that going around lately. ah Nico, what do you think of Yay, Mars and pending return. And do you have news on on that? Because he made the trip to Philly but didn't play. Could he play in ah in Portland?
00:48:06
Speaker
He is ah trying to play. I think that there is a possibility that he plays this game, specifically knowing that this might not be a a playoff game or a final. Because, you know, you always hear that statement, right? Well, you know, if it was a playoff game, hit play. Or, hey, if this was a final, that that play or play. I feel like if this game is so important for to prevent...
00:48:33
Speaker
Mayhem and panic, but just to get the the team back in course. Correct. So I've seen Yemar start to get into a place where he's making longer sprints. He is doing other things. Um,
00:48:52
Speaker
making the trip, I think was a big sign that they wanted him to continue to be, um, available in those training sessions and, and do more things, ah while going to this trip on this trip.
00:49:08
Speaker
So I do think that he, might be able to start. We haven't obviously been at the facility, but I would guess that we're going to see him at the very least be partial in training. I'm sure that just as I mentioned with Christian Roldan, they're going to want to reassess that. Is it a quad?
00:49:25
Speaker
I forget what it is, but the the muscle injury, they're going to want to just double check that everything's all right and then try to bring him back in. But I do think that he is someone that Brian is looking to bring back that safeguard for this back line. Look, I think JMR makes Nuhu play better.
00:49:47
Speaker
And I think Nuhu would absolutely agree. I think he makes Jackson play better. He makes him feel a lot safer. um And everything that you said in the way you started ah talking about this point is absolutely true.
00:50:02
Speaker
I think Stu Hawkins was really good against the Union. think he's really shined. And I want to continue to give him consistent minutes. His line-breaking passes are phenomenal. I mean, his clarity on the ball, his IQ, where he... understands that the ball needs to go to in order to start a transition moment. I mean, everything about the way he handles it, the goal, I put that more on ah Thomas than I do on Stu. Can Stu match that run and it may maybe anticipate that a little bit earlier, make that – finish a little bit harder? Sure. But but it's hard to put it on Stu when I don't think Stu is expecting Andrew Thomas to get that far out. So he's waiting to defend once the ball comes down. But by ah your goalkeeper pressing that high and wanting to go get the ball, find yourself in no man's land, you make that finish a lot easier because you don't need to control the ball. You just kind of knock it over the top and that's what happened. So I thought Stu was good. I thought Antonio Lopez was better than than he was ah maybe
00:51:05
Speaker
against obviously Portland, but but what I've seen from him, i looked a lot more decisive. i thought that he was able to do more of the off-the-ball defending that that that he likes to do. So I thought that was fine, but Yehmer gives you physicality, gives you leadership, and he is a paramount for for this defense.
00:51:26
Speaker
Stu Hawks and Tino Lopez have been grinding games together for the last like seven years in MLS next pro or whatever. I'm exaggerating a little bit, but like they played together a lot and you could tell, I'm glad you brought up Stu Hawks cause I was going to spotlight him as well. I thought he was a legitimate bright spot in the Philly game as well. And not just in the patronizing good for a teenager sense. Like he looks like an MLS CB to me. yeah I think the first flash that you saw was in the Austin game that pass that he, had that line breaking pass that that that pass is the only reason this team has scored a goal in the last like couple games the only godforsaken team goal this team has in the last couple games is because of his passing but what i loved about that pass is how uh he disguised his intent by looking toward the wing froze the two defenders and then split the back line right to Peter Kingston, and then Pete cuts it back to Snyder, and then you got Rothrock finishing the rebound after it goes off the post. So Stu Hawks doesn't get the assist, but that's again, that's created one of the only good chances this team has had over the last two or three games. And then he followed that up with a legitimately good performance in Philly. you know He was aggressive, he covered ground, looked comfortable defending in space, ah absolutely cleaned out Kevin Sullivan and created the viral highlight of the night.
00:52:42
Speaker
ah So a physical conference. That great. to his game yeah that was awesome he wasn't uh approaching the matchup like a kid hoping to survive against uh you know one of the league's biggest young stars or you know he hasn't doesn't have a lot of and mls minutes so but he was approaching it just like he belonged and i thought he looked like he belonged and for me the most fun part of watching him is just the passing like you know so he doesn't just recycle possession between the center backs he's looking to break lines and advance attacks and he's really good at it so I think there's actually ah a fair amount to be excited about there and they got to get him more minutes. You could see why he has been such a highly touted prospect. So, you know, that was, ah that was something we got our first super chat of the stream. Gianni coming in with the 499. Thank you, Gianni. Appreciate you brother. He says, has there ever been a team that started competing for the shield that ended up winning the spoon or we'll be the, we'd be the first to do that too. Hey, like
00:53:33
Speaker
I know it feels like that right now, ah but i there there would be a long way to go before this team's in spoon territory. They're down to 1.5 points per game right now, having not gotten a point in over a month. in league play or in the last five games in league play. So any sort of stabilization at all whatsoever should get them to avoid the, the spoon talk. But I mean, I understand ah where the sentiment is, ah is coming from Nico, anything more on ah like yay, Mara, the back line, or should we hit our last Coper hope for the, yeah for the day?
00:54:10
Speaker
The last thing I'll say is that, yes, Alex Rodin is very easy to um maybe take for granted. And look, Kalani, I'm a big Kalani guy, and I'll continue to be. And there's a lot of things to love about his athleticism, and the way he pushes forward. But...
00:54:27
Speaker
There's a savviness that goes with being a a right back that needs to understand when to underlap, when to overlap, when to ah make an early cross, ah defending as well. I mean, he's very physical and I think he relies a lot on his ability to recover speed, recovery speed and that sort of situation. but there is a need for him to be more defensively sound, understand how to shift his body, understand when he needs to be more vocal and and send off your, yeah your your ah pivot and make sure that he's helping out and ah being able to brace, you know, with two defenders on certain moments. I mean, there are things about Kalani's game that, know,
00:55:09
Speaker
just need need a little bit of of maturity and that's fine that's okay i mean these guys are continuing to learn and having alex rodan just gives you a more balanced two-way player so i think he's another one that hopefully because i don't even know what the timeline is on him anymore uh with this chronic hip injury we need to figure it out this week but he's someone alex rodan is that this team needs to get back in order to start to not be on the projection for the wooden spoon, which I'm totally with you. I, I i would be surprised be beyond surprise. I'd be shocked. I would be there. I would bet you everything I have in my wallet right now, that that's not going to be the case. i that There is a lot. I don't know if, I, Like, I don't know if you guys understand, like, the level of ineptitude that you need to really wouldn't spoon it. Like, I know this feels bad right now. I know it feels like that they're the worst team in the league and nothing's ever going to get better. But, like, if you watched, like, the actual bad teams around the league, like, believe it or not, I'm just telling you guys, it's worse than this. Like, over a much... Like, think about this, man. Atlanta United, they've been in They've been this...
00:56:19
Speaker
bad one for like two years in a row like they their fans watch stuff that's this bad every single week burning through money yeah burning through a lot more money than this broke ass team does that's for sure and like they it's like it never ends so we'll see maybe this team is in that bad a way maybe they are and they never get out of it and they become that type of team like you said i would be pretty surprised but like it's also like As bad as things are right now, it could be it could be worse. There's some cope for you. And that's a good segue into our let's do one more Cope or Hope, Nico, and then we'll ah talk about this Timby's game, and then that'll be it for this episode of Lob and Scorchers Kickoff. If you have not done so yet, please like the video and sub to the channel. You know, Road to 4K, we are almost there. i can I can feel it. I can taste the Road to 4K. So help us get across that finish line. But ah all right, last Cope or Hope, Nico.
00:57:12
Speaker
this This whole stretch right now, i'm going to make the case. This is one awful outlier and not necessarily proof, as people are taking it, that the Sounders are fundamentally broken. Is that cope or is that hope? The case for hope. I'm to make it. All right.
00:57:29
Speaker
This stuff that we're talking about right now, that we've been talking about for the last few weeks, five-game losing streak, it does not happen to Brian Schmetzer teams by a normal, regular course. ah This is the longest regular season losing streak in club history, precisely because five straight defeats are so abnormal for this organization.
00:57:49
Speaker
And also, you know, I know it no one wants to hear it now and it doesn't mean anything now. But before the World Cup break, the Sounders were playing like a legitimately good team. You know, where i'm I'm taking, we're taking... so ah this may may a culpa criticism of like, Oh, well, you, you guys talked about this team positively earlier this season. What do you have to say about that now? Yeah. We talked about them positively because they were playing well. They were averaging over two points per game. At one point they were like seven, one and two.
00:58:20
Speaker
ah And they were healthy. They were healthy. They were banking, not glamorous, but professional results. We praise them a lot. For these wins that they got like in San Jose and a couple other these road games where it was ugly, but they were winning. They were winning the games and they were progressing in Champions Cup. They waxed the Whitecaps and showing they could could contend with essentially the same roster when it was healthy. And they didn't even have De La Vega for that. And they were still playing at that level. So this collapse did occur amid an unusual unusually disruptive combination of injuries, absent absences, schedule congestion, and diminished continuity following the break. So, you know, that's fair to point out. And then also the guys they're missing, these are not peripheral pieces. They affect the team's midfield control, defensive structure, chance creation, leadership, and...
00:59:10
Speaker
emotional stability, which this team does not appear to have right now. So every team has its worst stretch. ah Seattle's established body of work under Schmetzer. And even earlier this season is much larger than this five game sample. So, you know, if they get healthy quickly returned to their previous baseline, this could ultimately be remembered as one horrific, but contained post world cup outlier. Nico, ah what do you think of that?
00:59:36
Speaker
that? yeah no No, I think, I think it's definitely hope. Um, I don't want dismiss the fact that there are some deep-rooted problems that ah this bad run of play has shed a light on But the reality is is that look at any team, any team in mls and Tampagos,
00:59:56
Speaker
Take out five starters from that team, specifically that have been experienced, that are in leadership positions, and that is in every single line, defense, midfield, attack, and see how well they play. I mean, that that that's just plain and simple. And yes, I'm sounding like I'm making excuses, but that that's just the reality of it, right? I said this going into this game. i mean, essentially...
01:00:19
Speaker
You have six starters if you add Pedro Lavega. So let's make it five against the Union, who, yes, they're one of the worst teams in MLS. And you didn't play well against them, but you you don't have those players. Once those players are back, then you are able to tell me, hey, man, this thing's not really that good. But they're going to once again be better. That is not...
01:00:42
Speaker
take away the the reality that maybe the depth is not exactly where we thought it was. And that many injuries that the floor is going to drop a bit. And that's where you are now. um But,
01:00:57
Speaker
I think that there's hope we without a doubt with with players coming back with what I can only imagine is a Brian Smetzer. That's going to figure out what it is. That's going to shake this team back into their usual form. It may be ah playing a playing the Timbers team that if you're able to get a greedy performance, a greater result, or even a win, i mean, man, that could really switch and flip the momentum. Yeah.
01:01:23
Speaker
Yeah, I'll just make ah the case for ah for Cope on this, and then we can ah preview the Timbs before we
Sounders' Organizational Identity and Culture
01:01:30
Speaker
get out of here. But ah i think you know i think everything that we just talked about is true and valid to point out. It's also true and valid to point out that five straight losses, it's no longer one weird outlier performance. That's a sustained pattern. And and i think...
01:01:46
Speaker
When you throw in the 5-1 at home to the Timbys, that really is what takes it from like, oh, this is just kind of guys not being healthy and we're going to have to take our lumps until we get our guys back. And that that just becomes a humiliation.
01:02:01
Speaker
Okay. Like that is just like, there's no dignity in that. And this team very has rarely, if ever sacrifices its dignity to that capacity. And they did. So there's that aspect of it. And then you've got the late collapse and that what happened in Austin was, was a meltdown. It was a meltdown. You had that one, one until the 85th. And then you start conceding goals and getting crash out red cards for no reason. All right. So you have that. And then going into this toothless, defeat against a struggling Philly team. It's those are those are just like
01:02:36
Speaker
not Results that this team takes as a matter of course, ah injuries explain why they're diminished, but they don't fully explain why this team has looked like one of the worst teams in MLS. This club is always like I've talked about in the last couple of shows. This club has always defined itself by surviving situations like this. Next man up, maintaining standards, refusing to make excuses. We we usually don't have to sit here on this show and say every other team in MLS would struggle if they had these types of absences. No, this team performs anyway. That's what they did last year. They had an injury crisis last year that was very, very, very bad. And they still took results. They didn't make excuses. They won League's Cup. So ah the fact that they've strayed so far from that is is definitely not good. That's what makes this whole conversation sound like Cope. And it makes this collapse especially alarming. It doesn't merely reflect missing talent. It directly contradicts what this team believes distinguishes their culture. Right. So, you know, they've fielded injured teams before without losing the competitiveness structure, basic attacking functionality. This team is sacrificed all three. They don't have any of that right now. So that makes that i think that's what makes it feel different and look different. And, you know, I think to calling this stretch and hand waving it as an outlier.
01:03:54
Speaker
it can become a way to dismiss evidence of deeper problems, aging or underperforming players, inadequate senior depth, striker regression system that cannot generate chances or attacking solutions. Like if you just call it an outlier and everything's going to fine when they get back, like you're kind of just not acknowledging everything that we've been, we've been able to see these last five games. And even if the returning starters and the streak, the fact that several absences caused the entire operation to collapse it,
01:04:22
Speaker
it still reveals something meaningful about the roster. And I don't think you can get around that. So I guess all told, I feel like there's hope in this ah hope that it's temporary, but cope if outlier is used to make it like meaningless. I think it's reasonable to believe that this is an extreme, unrepeatable convergence of injuries and disruption and that the real sounders are closer to the team that we saw before the break. But the Schmetzer identity again is specifically supposed to prevent circumstances turning into this man.
01:04:49
Speaker
That's yeah like it is. So even if they recover five straight losses and historic rivalry humiliation, you can't wave it away as ah as random noise. so No, no, no. And look, it's you're giving up 12 goals in the last five games, and you lost the Galaxy and to LAFC with...
01:05:08
Speaker
At least in one of those games, you had Jordan Morris back watching both of those. And then Christian Roldan was also there for the LAFC game and you still were unable to ah get results. So, yes, yeah I mean, yeah there there are some things that definitely go the other way. And that's why I appreciate Brian not shying away from saying, look, it it is four. It is five in a row. Like, I don't care about the the break in between both of them. I mean, that's that is what it is.
01:05:35
Speaker
All right, Nico, let's preview this upcoming game against the Portland Timbs because Seattle's reward for being in the worst run of form in the history of the club is that they now have to go to Portland take... Take on a Timbs team that not only smoked them five to one last time they played in Seattle, but a team that is now deluded themselves into believing that they're actual contenders because of what they did to Seattle and And what happened in their last game where they were playing an actual Western Conference contender, Real Salt Lake, at home, went down 1-0. They come back. Felipe Mora, club legend, last game with the club. They announced it before the game. They're transferring him out. He gets one more go. He scores two goals, including the game winner. And it was this is just vibey celebratory occasion at Providence Park. And their whole fan base is now... under the impression that their season is turning around and that they're going to skyrocket up the table and become a contender again on the heels of what they did to Seattle at Lumen Field. Now, is that actually going to pan out for them?
01:06:47
Speaker
Probably not knowing what we know about the Portland Timbs and their track record of being relevant for trophies, which aside from an MLS cup over a decade ago and the MLS is back tournament in the COVID bubble.
01:06:59
Speaker
We, we all know that the Portland Timbs, when it, when it comes to competitive, competing for and contending for trophies. That's not really their thing. That's not what they do. It's their thing is more go all out against the Seattle Sounders play like Real Madrid in that game. Use that to springboard yourself for two games and then go back to averaging 1.4 points per game. They just hired a coach, but they didn't have one until a couple of weeks ago, but either way,
01:07:23
Speaker
Delusional self-belief, even if it's delusional, it can still be powerful. And also, like they know that they kind of own this team right now. They own the rivalry, and they also know that Seattle is limping going into this game. And that basically, that I don't know if...
01:07:41
Speaker
It ends Seattle season if they get waxed again in this game. But Portland's definitely going to be looking at at it like that, like they should. And they're going to be doing what they always do, which is coming out with their hair on fire. They got this game at home. So this is going to be no different than any other Timbs game that we talk about. They're going to be out for absolute blood. And I would expect nothing different. When you have your rival on the ropes and you can really put the nail in their coffin, you should be doing everything you can, especially at home to capitalize on that. So all that's to say there's probably not a worse opponent or setting for this team to be playing right now. I mean, you've lost five straight, ah you're spiraling confidence looks shot. The attack has almost completely stopped functioning. There's nothing going on. The last team,
01:08:26
Speaker
that this team needs to see right now is Portland.
Upcoming Match Against Portland Timbers
01:08:28
Speaker
The same rival that just smoked you 5-1 at Lumen Field, arguably, I don't think arguably, the most embarrassing loss in club history. Now you got to walk into Providence Park where it's going to be a bloodthirsty crowd. The players and supporters understand the opportunity.
01:08:43
Speaker
You know, don't merely win the rivalry game, put a nail in the coffin. ah And the five one also removes any sense at all that Seattle can lean on rivalry history or any sort of psychological ed edge. Portland already proved they can overwhelm this version of the Sounders. And now they get a rematch at home, you know,
01:09:03
Speaker
maybe Maybe you get a couple guys healthy. I don't think so, though. I think that this game you're going into with pretty much what you have, and that's just tough. It's difficult to identify any answer that this team is going to have in attack. Do you have any hope at all that they're going to get even one expected goals in this game? like I really don't. ah So the defense, it competed in Philly, but...
01:09:26
Speaker
yeah You can't approach this game like another game where the back line has to be perfect. That's the situation that you ended up with in Philly is the defense has to be literally perfect or you don't have a chance to take a result in the game. And Portland already showed what can happen if they get the first goal and the game opens up. So I don't know, man, you need some way to create pressure, give Portland anything to fear.
01:09:47
Speaker
You know, right now opponents can play aggressively because there's no threat of the Sounders punishing them in transition or creating pressure. Literally any individual danger at all. So I think the opening phase of this game is going to be huge. Portland scores early. The atmosphere is going to become vicious and all the psychological weight from the losing streak and the five one will come crashing down all at once. ah But, you know, conversely, if Seattle can survive that opening push, compete physically, frustrate the crowd,
01:10:16
Speaker
Maybe the rivalry context provides some emotional jolt for this group that they desperately need. ah But this is also where the veteran leadership thing becomes unavoidable, you know, regardless of who's available. Someone's got to prevent this team from entering a rivalry match, looking tentative, passive, or resigned to what's about to happen. The fact that that just happened to you at home,
01:10:36
Speaker
is galling enough but now you're on the road and the odds of that happening are even higher than they you would think than they were at lumen field so i don't know man this is tough you're up against it i have pretty much zero faith that this team can make it to the 20th minute without conceding i would be shocked if they do that and then also it's just like with this offense right now it's like What do you even do? What do you like? What do you turn to?
01:11:04
Speaker
What do you like? what are What where do you even go about finding a solution to this? I don't know. A rivalry game is the worst possible platform on the road that I could think of to have to try and figure that out though. So I don't know, man, it's, it's MLS. Anything could happen, but if this, how do you feel about this, Nico? Cause to me, this just feels bleak. I have no, idea I have no idea how you score. And I see very little reason to believe that this,
01:11:31
Speaker
defense can hold anything close to a clean sheet over 90 minutes at Providence Park against this team that just smoked you in front of their crowd, which is going to be super lit. Like, I don't know.
01:11:42
Speaker
I don't know.
01:11:46
Speaker
I think, I think of myself as a realist, but I've been told I can be very, you know, positive and and optimistic. I have been called a, you know, half glass type of ah person, full glass type of person.
01:12:04
Speaker
and and And I look at this game and just like I did for the union game, i just don't see the Sounders winning this game, unfortunately. um I believe that, and you mentioned some of that, they would have to be almost a Supernatural effort from this team and be motivated to the degree where all of a sudden everything's working to perfection and ah you are drawing foul on top of the box and you get the set piece goal that you haven't gotten and over the last five games. or i cant even I don't even know how many goals we've had off of set pieces all season. Maybe Jesus has a legendary game and he's able to, you know,
01:12:51
Speaker
get a nice goal. Maybe Osasera Rosario is able to have the game of his career. You see where I'm getting at? it would have to be almost a yeah phenomenal yeah game, unlike anything that you've seen for this team to get a win. And i I'm with you.
01:13:11
Speaker
Whether Yammer is back or not, i I don't know how this team doesn't give up a goal in the first half. I think that poor Laniv anything. And look, they took advantage of the fact that... um Billy Govey had a terrible ah like a red card like in the 36th minute because he smacked the guy in the face with his foot. Definitely intentionally, my opinion. And that kind of changed the game a little bit. But going back to the first game here at home,
01:13:43
Speaker
Seattle was unable to compete physically with a team that was very direct at the time. Now, does that change a little bit now with Martín Cifuentes, the Spaniard head coach, as part of this team? Maybe. i thought that they were better in possession. They have some really good... um Combination play against RSL, but again, that's also a team that was down a player But it it goes back to that. Can you win duels? Are you able to keep up physically with this team? All of those are the the questions that I don't have positive answers to and because of that I would have to think that unless there's something completely different about this game The sounders are very likely not gonna win this game. I think that there is
01:14:25
Speaker
ah experience and talent that edges the timbers right now. you know I think Veld is a very good player. at think Diego Charra just showed you here and continues to show you that that's the type of leader that you want on the field. He's a vocal leader. He's a physical leader.
01:14:41
Speaker
On defense, are they a little bit Weak and gappy, sure, but can this team in the Sounders it matters i' be able to take advantage of those moments? I just i don't see it, and that's the biggest problem. and and i don't think i've gone to i don't think I've ever gone into a Timbers game more sure that the Sounders were not going to get a result, and that's just where we are now.
01:15:09
Speaker
If they do lose this game like I think you and I expect and everyone in chat expects, what do you think the fallout from that be? That would be two straight L's to Portland. Six games. Six games in a row, two straight to Portland, one of which was your most humiliating defeat in club history. We'll see how competitive this game is. I would be surprised if it's as non-competitive as the last game, but I mean, I don't know. I feel like everything's on the table right now. If you just get waxed by Portland again, their fans are going to be yucking it up, dunking on, dunking on all of Seattle, dunking on us again. They're going be all in our chat and they're really like, this is all they have. So they're going to be yucking it up indefinitely. So I hope everyone's ready and prepared for that. But like, it just kind of plays into this whole thing right now of like, how long is this? How long is this tenable before you got to do something really drastic to just try and change the vibe because as bad as the vibes are right now, if they go out there this weekend and get smoked on by the Timbs again, like we all expect them to,
01:16:21
Speaker
it's going to get, that's one of the main things that could make what feels like the worst situation it could possibly be. That's going to make it worse, man. That's going to make it worse against all odds. And, you know,
01:16:36
Speaker
I guess prove us wrong, man. Prove us wrong. Go out there. Show the fight in intensity that you didn't show in the last game. At least make this a respectable showing that we're not just what like watching them give up three goals in seven minutes to this team and just get sliced up that easily at Lumen Field. You cannot have that happen again, man. If you're going to lose the game, lose the game. But like show up. Show up. Show some sort of...
01:17:02
Speaker
fight and competitiveness that, I mean, again, like I realized that that is as low a bar as it gets, but just look like a competent and MLS operation. Compete. Don't give up three goals in seven minutes. Don't get sliced up that easily. Don't make bad news bears, defensive errors. Don't get crash out red cards. I'm half expecting that to happen in this game. Like you got to at least,
01:17:27
Speaker
If you at least do that, then maybe we can look at this and take something from it. But failing that, it's like... i just kind of find it hard to imagine things can get worse than they are right now. But if they go out there and lose this game, it's it's ah it's going to.
01:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, and you can cope in any way that you want with... the injuries and what the team is. And you look at the fact that this Portland team has some very talented players in midfield and the Costa and Bassett and Velde, Anthony. I mean, that that's a team that could definitely put it on you and and you could shape it any way you want. But at the end of the day, no one's going to be happy about that result. And and it's almost as if you want it.
01:18:09
Speaker
or or I'm trying to tell people to brace themselves for that result. Hopefully I'm wrong. And hopefully there's something that there's a miracle game for this team, for the Sounders team to keep away from getting the sixth loss and the second to their arch rivals. But it's just not looking good it's It's not looking good. um I don't even know if Brian would be willing to just completely just change everything up just to see if...
01:18:39
Speaker
you get something out of this team, like completely change the formation, maybe play with two strikers in this one, try to just play more direct. I mean, it could be one of those games where even if you get a result and and you don't play great, it's it's it's all about just getting the result. And so I'm curious because I really do think that Brian is looking into this game, trying to figure out how he's going to,
01:19:06
Speaker
shape up how how he's going to be able to put it together. And and if drastic decisions are being made and and and you got to sit certain players and and maybe change formation, change some of the principles. I mean, you should all be on the table right now to try to beat this or or at least get a result against this Timbers team.
01:19:24
Speaker
One last super chat and then we'll get out of here. This one's from James. James,
Transfer Plans and Team Reinforcement
01:19:28
Speaker
thank you. Appreciate you, man. This is for you, Nico. He says, don't need names, but our signings on the table. Signings are on the table.
01:19:36
Speaker
ah There are, I'll tell you right now, they're looking at it at ah at a center midfielder, like a true six. There is obviously strikers on the on the table as well. There is a lot of conversations that that that the team is having right now in order to ah bring in at least two players. And so, yeah, it's out there.
01:20:04
Speaker
I'm actually really happy to hear that about the six. we You know, we talked about the number nine situation and I gave my little, my little spiel on that. My mea culpa to whatever extent it was an actual mea culpa. But I think, I think the six situation is equally, if not more,
01:20:20
Speaker
dire right now you have zero like for like you have zero plan or ability to have a contingency situation in the event that christian is out it was supposed to be hasani dotson but that has not worked out really at all so you got to you got to address that man like as much as the striker situation is not ideal if you can't control games in midfield and your midfield's getting run on like this every single game literally does not matter who the striker is it doesn't like you you I think teams kind of think about this in reverse sometimes, like the Toronto FC spending $27 million dollars on Josh Sargent when their midfield is just as bad as Seattle's is right now. That's a good example of like, you got to you gotta to shore up the spine of your team before you even get to all that other stuff. And this team's spine is so weak right now. Like they got to adjust address that. So that's exciting to hear. And hopefully it's a six and a number nine as well. ah But Nico, any final thoughts before we get out of here?
01:21:16
Speaker
no Look, that all all of you guys' pressure and that the the terrible results have definitely lit a fire under the front office. I know that you know we have heard from Craig and he sometimes says things just to maybe sound like everything's okay. and You know, he can't really throw his boss under the bus when it comes to the budget and things of that nature. Because at the end of the day, you got to report back to him. But there's definitely a fire. There's an urgency that i haven't seen in a long time. So hopefully that results in so some players for this particular window. But I think next window even more when you got to make some real tough decisions on certain players. So we'll see what happens if they're able to put it together and actually...
01:22:03
Speaker
make that into fruition and really materialize it in a couple of players. But the intent is there. Scouting departments all over. Craig is making calls. It's definitely ah urgency there.
01:22:14
Speaker
All right.
Conclusion and Future Plans
01:22:15
Speaker
Well, we'll see what happens with that. I got to run on that. But thank you all, as always, for tuning in to another banger episode of Lobbing Scorchers Kickoff presented by QED Coffee. Subscribe to QED Coffee at lobbingscorchers.com slash coffee.
01:22:28
Speaker
ah Like the video, sub to the channel, help us on the road to Lobbing Scorchers going to Portland, so we'll see you all there. Appreciate y'all. Love y'all. We'll catch you next time. Peace.