Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Sunday on the Pod with... Hello Dolly!
26 Plays8 months ago
We got elegance, and if you ain’t got elegance then put on your Sunday clothes before the parade passes by! We’re gunna to raise the roof, we’re gunna carry on - because it only takes a moment… and this is one of our old favourite shows from way back when. It takes a woman - well three in this case! It’s so nice to have you back where you belong and we feel the room swayin’ for the bands playin’ - so say hello to episode 15, Hello Dolly!
On our fifteenth episode of Sunday on the Pod, the gals talk favourite comediennes, Kristen Wiig’s Liza Minnelli impression and Babs, Babs, Babs! It truly is a Carol Channing induced fever dream. So what are you waiting for? Sit back and enjoy the pod!
Credits
Artwork by @drawnatthehalf
Hosted by Casey Gwilliam, Florence Lace-Evans and Rosa Maria Alexander
Produced by Rosa Maria Alexander
SUGAR COOKIE (Piano Ver.) Music by 샛별Daystar https://youtu.be/7lqpOlVYtD0 Promoted by BGMD No Copyright Music http://tiny.cc/yf4qpz
Email: sundayonthepod@gmail.com
Instagram: @sundayonthepod
Twitter: @sundayonthepod
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090008413791
Recommended![Sondheim! The Birthday Concert [Casey and Rosa's Version] - Part 2 image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/6328b4d65e0394314b97508d/7fece278-2cd0-43b5-b5e4-ef0f1b02b9cf.png)
![Sondheim! The Birthday Concert [Casey and Rosa's Version] - Part 1 image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/6328b4d65e0394314b97508d/ccefc715-dfe5-4604-907d-b5aa43ee4c2c.png)
Transcript
Introduction to 'Sunday on the Pod'
00:00:00
Speaker
Thanks for Hello and welcome to you Sunday on the Pod with... Casey! Flo! And Rosa! Welcome back to Sunday on the Pod.
Segments and Social Media Engagement
00:00:31
Speaker
Sunday on the Pod is a podcast all about musical theatre. However, this podcast isn't just for performers but it's for anyone who loves musical theatre.
00:00:41
Speaker
Each episode will cover musicals that some of you might love, some of you might hate, or maybe you've never heard of them before. Either way, we'll be singing and dancing about them. If you didn't already know, we pick a musical and discuss its plot, the show's creators dissecting specific songs lyrically musically, delving into any juicy gossip in our segment called Staged or Secrets, And my personal favourite, putting on our very own casting director hats and choosing a fantasy cast with Megamix casting. So, what are you waiting for? Sit back and enjoy the pod. And as always, the best way to keep up with us is on our social media. Not only will you be notified when new episodes drop, but we also post fun quizzes, trivia and exciting, empty news about new shows and revivals. You can find us at Sunday on the Pod on Instagram and X, and you can also find us on our Facebook group, which is just Sunday on the Pod.
Casey's 'Hello Dolly' Experiences
00:01:34
Speaker
So I am super duper excited about this month's episode. Drum roll please. but but but but like but Hello Dolly. Hello. Hello. It's a long time coming for Hello Dolly, especially as it's essentially Casey's favorite show. Yeah, absolutely. In the world. I think 100% top three. Wow. It sometimes interchanges, but yeah, after seeing it on stage, yeah, 100%, one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. And you saw it in New York, didn't you? Yeah. Oh, it was incredible. With Bernadette or Bette?
00:02:21
Speaker
It was with Bernadette because... You're the only person in the world that's like, it was with Bernadette. No. Bernie, I love you, baby. No, I do, but Bette Midler is my God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, everything. The wing in your wings. She is. So I actually... went to New York in December 2017. And that was when Bets Run was on. And I totally walked away from the group because we were all looking at shows to go to and not one singular person wanted to go watch Hello Dolly. And I was like, are you joking? Hello Dolly with Bette Midler, I'm going. Until I got to the ticket box office thing and it was like $490. And I was like, oh my God, I love you babes.
00:03:13
Speaker
but not that much. Got rent to pay. So I was like, oh no. So how much did you end up spending in the end? Well, on the actual trip, I didn't go to see at that time. So we went to see a whole bunch of other stuff, which was great. But then... I believe you guys saw Spongebob the musical, where you start with that group. We did. Yeah, we did see Spongebob. Was it good? It was brilliant. The UK tour... not so much questionable oh i was getting it was just strange i think the broadway i think the fact that i had such a big budget on broadway really contributed to success when we went to see it when you see it with not a big budget you're actually like oh what a stupid idea for a musical it's like a crappy version of telling spongebob like yeah basically um so yeah wait i really wanted to see it when i went in december 2017 and then
00:04:12
Speaker
flash forward to March well actually like two weeks after we got back I opened a Christmas present that was the tickets to see Bernadette in Hello Dolly and I was like really confused and I was like what is this because I've just add ah just been and my mum was like oh we're doing it for you 21st so then i went I went back to New York in the March and saw Bernadette do it and then I loved it so much that I went back the day after I talked to it by myself in
Imelda Staunton and Carol Channing Stories
00:04:41
Speaker
the theatre. Oh, that's so sweet. So I got to see it twice, which was just incredible. To be fair, I feel like I'm going to be like that with Imelda Staunton. Like I already know I'm going to be crying because I'm such a big fan. Like anything I see her do, I'm already crying. So I i i feel like I'll go and see it and be like, I've got to see it again.
00:05:00
Speaker
Very excited for her. She has had a solid run the past 10 years of playing a musical theatre matriarch. So it feels like a Dolly turn was definitely on the cards for her. And I believe, so A Melt of Staunton will be taking on the role of Dolly as part of a 10 week run here in London. But I believe it was meant to be scheduled for 2020. So this has been like four years in the making. I tickets for that. Five tickets for that. who I did, and then bloody Covid to get away from me. And then they were like, and then we're cancelling the whole thing. I was like, great. So then as soon as it came back out, I was like, oh, my God, mum. So then we had to get tickets again. No. Well, that's good. Some of us never got our Sunday in the Park Open Air Regents. I know. I feel bad for you. I feel bad for those people. I remember hearing the news that she was going to do it. I'm sure it was it was like room at twenty seventeen.
00:05:57
Speaker
And then I found out 2018 from someone in the biz. I can't remember who now. Someone in the biz. Someone in the biz. Someone in show business. That it was happening and it had been confirmed and then it got confirmed 2019 and then yeah, absolutely went down the pan with COVID. So, I'm really hoping I can get tickets to go watch it. but London is such a trek from up north, it's so one unfair. I know, but this does feel like a once-in-a-lifetime sit. It does. And it is your favourite musical. It is. You're right. Do it for Hello Dolly. Just buy it. Alright, I will buy it. And just before we started, Flo was beginning to tell us that her mother has worked with Mrs. Raspberry's herself, Carol Channing,
00:06:51
Speaker
Yes so this is a story that she claims she's told me but you know when you're like absolutely I would have remembered that I would have remembered that um so apparently back in the day um my so my mum used to be an actress and um she uh she was like in between doing jobs in London and she went to this like networking night where someone who basically they they used to do what was called like a Sunday review at the Palladium or something um every Sunday and the guy that ran it ended up talking to my mum at this networking event and was like actually I need someone to help me organize this and basically look after the big names do like are are you interested she was like absolutely
00:07:38
Speaker
um So it was kind of like a little part-time job for her in between gigs where she basically um looked after like big stars and one of them was Carol Channing when she did um a Hello Dolly um like night at the Palladium where they did like songs from Hello Dolly and my mum said she's really nice, she's really nice. I so believe that, like she's one of those celebrities I just know is such a fun, well, already was such a fun person to be around. Yeah. Yeah. And she just said she had this incredible personality, like just from across the room. It was like this huge energy.
00:08:19
Speaker
i yeah i no the she gives me like Carole Channing is like on par with Lucille Ball for me. What I would do for a dinner party with those two. Upsetting that Lucille Ball doesn't have the nicest reputation when you actually look deep into it. It's been quite upset, which I absolutely raided. they used I don't know if it's still there and I'm going in October and I'm really hoping that there are some things, but the use in Universal in Orlando, there used to be a big I Love Lucy store and I absolutely raided it and got so much merch. And then I remember some guy like in Universal stuff and he'd be like, ah you know, she was actually a witch. She was really, really mean to everybody she worked with. And I was like stood there with like my bag with like my key rings and my notebook and everything. And I was like, okay.
00:09:17
Speaker
Oh, that's such a shame if true. We will need to do some more research on that and can and verify the rumors. so But that's such a shame if true, because I love Lucy is so important to
History and Success of 'Hello Dolly'
00:09:29
Speaker
me. It's like a joke. like I think of that episode where she's working at the chocolate factory and she can't keep up with the chocolate. Ten times a day. Yeah. So she starts to eat them ten times a day. Yeah. ah Literally the funniest thing in the world to me.
00:09:49
Speaker
Let's head in then to the world of Hello Dolly and our lovely heroine, our Dolly Levi. So the show's basis actually is a pretty long can convoluted affair. ah The title character Dolly Levi and the basic plot elements first appear in the 1835 play A Day Well Spent by English playwright John Oxenford, which is the most English name I've ever heard. ah Seven years later, in 1842, Austrian playwright, Johan Nistreuil, adapted it into a kind of farce, which is called Einenjuk's Wielerseeckmachin, which loosely translates to either he will go on a spree, bad translation, I think, but and or he'll have himself a good type ah because the story was more centred on the the male leading character. So almost 100 years later, American playwright is an international affair.
00:10:44
Speaker
Thornton Wilder then adapted Niestroy's version into his own farce, which he called the Merchant of Yonkers. Obviously Yonkers, New York is a kind of defining place within the show. In 1938, he was kind of unhappy with this first version. It was a critical failure, deemed a bit of a flop. So he just had a second ago in 1954, revising the play and he renamed this version the Matchmaker. So the matchmaker expanded the role of our now infamous Dolly Levi with Ruth Gordon, who you might know from Rosemary's Baby, originating the kind of the now kind of infamous role. So fast forward a few years later, early 1960s, we have composer Jerry Herman, who was pretty upset from the failure of his second full length musical. It was called Adam Aphrodite that kind of
00:11:35
Speaker
burned out of Broadway, unfortunately, um and he was approached by producer David Merrick to join forces with librettist and lyricist Michael Stewart to create a musical adaption of The Matchmaker, starring Broadway icon Ms. Carol Channing. So, this went through a hundred names. Originally titled Dolly, a damned, exasperating woman. Far too long for a Broadway title, I'd say. no And Call on Dolly, which I do think is very good as well. Obviously, it's one of the first opening numbers, Call on Dolly. Early versions of the show ah that had tryouts in Detroit, Michigan and Washington kind of had mixed reviews.
00:12:13
Speaker
So that went under kind of major script and score rewrites. They introduced the kind of now iconic number before the parade passes by but there's a bit of smoke and mirrors about this because there was a couple of writers who had kind of dodgily been asked by the producers to help with the rewrite but ah Jerry Herman the composer didn't know about it so then they provided the song before the parade passes by. Jerry Herman didn't use um their song but then created and his version of Before the Parade Passes By, so he kind of used a bit of the content, not he completed completely changed the lyrics and the music, but you know the premise of having the song placed there and the title was technically stolen by these two other writers. So there's been a whole bunch of kind of things over the year of suing, countersuing, eventually they've got now a songwriting c credit on that song.
00:13:04
Speaker
and But it wasn't until the success of an early recording by jazz hero, Louis Armstrong, of the act two showstopper, Hello Dolly, kind of became really, really famous that the name was cemented as Hello Dolly, exclamation point. um One of the only Broadway shows, I believe, that has an exclamation point, obviously, Oklahoma, being, I imagine, first but install the Stomp. Stomp, very good, yeah. I can't, please write in if you know more. The name Hello Dolly was cemented just in time for its Broadway debut in 1964 at St. James Thesir. And apparently I think this is so sweet. So the playwright of the matchmaker Thornton Wilder loved the adaptation of the musical so much, the adaptation of his 1954 play, that he apparently came to see Carl Channing in it once every week. Which I just think is so cute. Wow. Yeah, he just what he just thought it was brilliant. It's very sweet.
00:14:01
Speaker
The show was an instant success, met with a claim by Broadway critics for Channing's performance and for Gower Champion's direction, sweeping the 1964 Tony Awards, winning 10 awards, including Best Musical, Best Book of a Musical, Best Performance by a Leading Actor in a Musical for Carol Channing, Best performance by a featured actor in a musical, which was for Charles Nelson Riley, who played Penelius Hackle. Best original score, best producer of a musical for David Merritt. Best director of a musical for Gower Champion. Best choreography, best conductor and musical director for Shepard Ullman.
00:14:36
Speaker
So really interestingly, the competing show of the 1964 Broadway and Tony season was actually Funny Girl starring a young Ms. Barbara Streisand, who of course is gonna go on to star in the film adaptation of both musicals. So for her role as Fanny Brice in the 1968 adaptation of Funny Girl, she received critical acclaim. She won her first Best Actress Oscar But for the 1969 adaption of Hello Dolly, she received kind of a lukewarm reception to the film kind of overall, with many critics feeling that she was too young for the role, which is kind of fair, because Dolly is meant to be an aging widow and Ms. Streisand was 27 at the time. Yeah, she doesn't look very old. I mean, I think that's probably why they put her in that big hat to like describe herself. Her hair is also
00:15:31
Speaker
being massive in that film it's horrendous i was like who the hell style also so why are all her dresses like like curtains i'm like who who decided that that was the dress awful I think they're trying to have her as like almost a bit unsexy yeah in the beginning from the direction of the film. And then when she ah comes out for Hello Dolly and she's in that kind of bold, tight number, I think it's meant to be, oh, she's back out into the world and she's a bit sexier. But it's Barbra Streisand, she's 27, she's absolutely stunning. So it just looks like they've put her in some articles in a massive, massive wig, but she's still very obviously gorgeous Barbra Streisand.
00:16:09
Speaker
that feels like That feels like the musical theatre version of like when a geek has glasses on and they're like, take glasses off. And they're like, oh my God, she was beautiful and alarming. I'm like, God. that's Have either of you been keeping up with Doctor Who lately? Like the new ones? No, one not really. It's actually been brilliant, by the way. But anyway, they had an episode would like two, three weeks ago. where Millie Gibson, who plays um the new companion, Ruby, and she's like 19, I think. And then the in one of the episodes it ages her till like mid 40s and all they do was put a pair of glasses on her. No. And it was just so, it really took me out of it. I was like, they've got this new Disney budget because it's now like going on Disney Plus so in
00:16:57
Speaker
Um, all different countries, it's got like such a big budget behind it. And I thought, I need, you did, you just put glasses on her. um I will also say, so I watched challenges a couple of weeks ago. I literally thought it was so brilliant. I think it's like one of the best films I've seen in maybe like five, six years. So good. My only critique is that it's Zendaya obviously in one of the main roles. And she is quite young looking, like she, even though she's like 27, maybe 28, I think that's her age. She like looks like a, she looks early twenties, I would say, Zendaya. So for the period of the film where it's meant to be like 10 years later and she's meant to be in her mid thirties, they just give her a bob. They just always give women bobs and you're like, what does that just make them old? Like, I'm just so confused. ah but it was but A bob and a trench coat. It's always a bob and a trench coat. You're like,
00:17:49
Speaker
I wear trench coats. She kind of goes from like wearing sweatshirts, obviously because she was playing tennis in the the early part of the film, to wearing like a lot of um like cashmere and things like that, but it is just Zendaya in a bobcat. It's really funny. She looks gorgeous though. She is gorgeous. Ageing women one bob at a time.
00:18:16
Speaker
The original 1964 production then, it was notable for several Broadway records, one for the record-breaking Ten Tony Wins, a record that would go unmatched for 37 years until the producer swept 12 Tony Wins in 2001, and also for its long run, holding briefly the record for longest running musical on Broadway with 2,844 performances until Fiddler on the Roof beat it in the early 1970s. um And Fiddler on the Roof also became the first Broadway musical to hit 3,000 performances. Nowadays that seems like small change, ah kind of as the industry's evolved, as we were discussing in last episode, Chicago's on something like 20... It's above 20,000 performances now.
00:18:56
Speaker
ah
00:18:59
Speaker
So Carol Channing then, um she originated the role of the musical version of Dolly to, I'm gonna say this so many times because it just, I cannot stress you enough how much critics love this show and Carol Channing, to critical and commercial acclaim. Her performance became a defining moment in her career, elevating her status ah completely to the Broadway icon. And throughout its original run and subsequent revivals, she's performed as Dolly in more than 5,000 performances. which is just absolutely crazy. ah The role was actually adapted by the racers with Ethel Merman in mind, which makes a lot of sense, but Ethel and their second choice Mary Martin both rejected the role ahead of the Broadway run.
00:19:43
Speaker
don't worry, they kind of panicked after the success of Channing and ah both went on to play that role in true and subsequent revivals. I think they were like, whoops. yeah
00:19:55
Speaker
ah Because, yeah, Miss Carol Channing, she was just so, so, so good. And she was desperate to to lead as Dolly. But the producer, David Merrick, he was pretty dismissive of her quite ah in quite a rude way. um So he told her that he didn't want her silly grin with all those teeth that go way back up to her ears on his stage. But she eventually managed to convince the director, Garrett Champion, to give her a chance. um And she kind of pleaded her case in this like long overnight phone call that she ah that she had with him.
00:20:27
Speaker
And she was so grateful when the part was, I know, sori so So rude. When she's going to make your show, babe. So yeah watch it. Also, she, um you know, she wasn't a, you know, a nobody at this time. She I think she already had Tony nominations under her belt. Like she was a very seasoned Broadway performer at this point in her career. like this show definitely elevated her to icon status but she was a seasoned performer so it's quite odd that she was having to beg for this role maybe it's because they really wanted like someone else maybe that's why i don't know it just seems to be a running theme anyway i'll get into what i mean by it later but that very much seems to be a running theme in this show
00:21:15
Speaker
in particular, which is people being very dismissal of dismissive of the women. Yeah, just like men being so dismissive of the leading lady. I think it's a threatened thing. Like, what a woman is leading a show. It's still a thing. It is still a thing. um But yeah, so she she did manage to get the part, and she was so grateful when she got it that she absolutely met her end of the deal. She won the Best Actress Tony in 1964, and she only ever missed in this kind of first part of her ah run as Dolly throughout her life, but in this 1964 production, she only ever missed one second act of performance, and that was usually a good question. She never had a day off.
00:21:59
Speaker
And I actually read, she was so hell-bent on performing every night as Dolly. this This is quite a funny story. And I think this is ah in a very sweet way. She said that she didn't say this in a kind of ruder-domineering way. But she once in the corridors heard her understudy, which was Joanne Marley, ah rehearsing the numbers for the show just in case she had to go on. And Carol went up to her and said, don't worry about it.
00:22:22
Speaker
like you Don't worry about it. And The Understudy only ever got one one half of a show, which is ah you know a shame for her, but a testament to Carol Channing's endurance. i think That's incredible. And she went on to play Dolly as I've said throughout her life and was kind of met with acclaim each time. So she was nominated for an Olivier Award in 1979 for the 70s revival. And she actually won a Grammy in 2002 for the early Nazis Broadway revival cast recording. The women has got a ton of Grammys under her belt, by the way, it's really odd.
00:22:59
Speaker
So columnist Dick Kleiner, this is a really great quote, he said at the show, the plot may at first be quite dull, but then you sit in the audience and Carol Channing comes out, turns on her huge eyes and monumental smile, and you sit there with a silly grin on your face for two and a half hours, bathed in the benevolent spell of a great comedian. It is so hard to imagine her doing anything else but making people smile. She is that human curio, the born female comet, which I just think is so nice. And interestingly... Yes, women are funny. Women are funny. Like, why is this still not a thing? Yeah, it's not a new concept. Like Lucille Ball, Cowl Counting, they've been doing it for years. Like, Mae West. Carol Burnett. Yeah. and And they're so underrated. They're so underrated. So underrated. I mean, even in England, Victoria Wood.
00:23:52
Speaker
like Oh, don't even. That just all really annoys me. Carolina Hearn. Carolina Hearn. There's a lot of times where people are like, oh, that you know, so-and-so was like funniest person in the world. like And I've looked back and I've watched like old comedy things, especially British comedians. I'm like, I still find it funny. I don't find them funny. I cannot believe he was apparently top of his craft, not naming names, but it's madness to me. There's also a lot of, I think, a massive difference between, and this isn't like saying 100% every time, because obviously that would be very...
Comedy and Critiques in 'Hello Dolly'
00:24:27
Speaker
like sweeping statement. But I think a lot of the time, men's comp like, um like men's stand up comedy or just comedy in general tends to be jabs at people, which sometimes can be funny. Yeah, it sometimes can be funny. But it it seems very like from a point of view of, you know, like laughing at people, whereas women's comedy, I find so funny because it's purely all observational and things that
00:24:56
Speaker
you're probably thinking your head a lot of the time. And then when someone stands up there and says it, you're like, that is actually really, really funny. There's a really great standup set from Carolina Hern. And she's just telling stuff, like, you don't feel like you're watching a standup piece. She's just chatting to the audience. And it's just, it's just the way she says things. It's so conversational, but she's just kind of like, oh, you know, I went to the mechanic and um I was a woman on my own. So I thought that we're going to take the piss out of me. so I just turned up and said, hi, ah my brother's a mechanic, but he's not well. So can you have a look at my car? And everyone's just in stitches. and It's so funny. And like, it's just, it's so mundane, but it's actually just the way that she tells it. I i just think there's a ah very big difference in stand up comedy mostly. Yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
but yeah And there's that big Carolina Hearn thing, if I'm remembering right, that um show she had where she played like the old woman character who was interviewing people. Mrs. Merton. Mrs. Merton, and then she has Bernard Manning on. horrible or he's the He's exactly who I'm talking about, by the way, who's like supposedly a British. comedy icon, I don't find him funny in any sense of the word, horrible racist. And she kind of takes him to task as this character is Merton. And it's really, she really goes at him in a, in a way that keeps the audience on side because they're kind of stuck between, they really like and respect Bernard Manning, but I think they also understand Charlotte's point of view, but she handled, where is like, I do think a lot of male comics who are left wing,
00:26:32
Speaker
would get on that show and be like, and berate him and the audience, I don't think would like it. She kind of knew how to straddle that, like making sure her point was getting across, but like she disapproved and she really takes them to task, but also keeping the audience on her side. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good that there's, um, there was a really, I think it might still be on BBC iPlayer actually. It's a really gorgeous documentary that aired on Christmas Eve or Christmas day. Um, all about Carolina Hearn and it has that, like that's a big section in it as well, the Mrs. Merton show. um But yeah, that was just, it was just brilliant. And she really takes them down without actually having to come out of character for a minute. yeah
00:27:15
Speaker
It's yeah, it's great. It's brilliant. And kind of interestingly, a lot of critics at the time also placed the success of the show at Tanning and Glerow Champion's feet. Many of them kind of felt that the songs in the libretto, you know, they weren't bad, but they were they were fine. To quote kind of New York Post critic Richard Watts, Jr., he said that the music was serviceable. And I think like kind of having looked back on the show the last couple of weeks, I think the music because I like the music and I enjoy the songs at the time that they're being played and I feel like they're placed well and they serve up the story and I really like that and I like hearing people sing it. I love the dance numbers. There is there's maybe only a couple of songs that I am going away and actively remembering. and yeah Yeah, I wouldn't be like, I've got to listen. I mean, Casey, you might be different, but I would never be like, I've got to listen to the whole album. I'd probably just pick like
00:28:11
Speaker
a couple of songs. I want to watch it. I want to watch the I want to watch Bali. I don't. Yeah, there are there is a very there's quite a few skippable songs in my opinion yeah on the soundtrack. Especially when it's like um the the what's the what's the woman one like right at the very beginning? um Oh, it takes a day. It takes a woman. Yeah. And I'm just like, that's good. Also, I put a penny in my pocket. Skip every time. I know that. Well, that one's a funny one. I think it got taken out and put back in and taken out. Yeah. and and Yeah. that that I don't like that song either. I find that quite boring.
00:28:53
Speaker
So many of the critics kind of felt that the real reason why audiences liked it so much and um and why it was so successful was becoming was because the kind of comedy heartbeat ah was elevated by Karl chatting herself, her kind of sparky and daring performance. And actually at Champion's kind of direction, he had this kind of tits and teeth style staging for the original production that elevated these serviceable ah numbers into something that was really, really entertaining. So in the New York Herald Tribune, Walter Kerr wrote, ah this is really nice, Hello Dolly is a musical comedy dream with Carol Channing, the girl of it. Channing opens her wide, big as milestone eyes, spreads her white gloved arms and ecstatic abandon, trots out on a circular runway that surrounds the orchestra and proceeds to dance rings around the conductor.
00:29:43
Speaker
With hair like orange sea foam, a contralto like a horse's neighing, and a confidential swagger, she is a musical comedy performer with all the blousy glamour of the girls on the sheet music of 1960. Which I just think is such a nice quote and it really sums up like Carol Channing's just absolute like spark and enigma. So just quickly then, um another interesting thing is that the cast album also reached the American Billboard charts. It reached number one in June 1964. And funnily enough, it was actually only eclipsed the following week by Louis Armstrong's album version of Hello Dolly, because he recorded a whole album. um And Louis Armstrong would actually appear in the 1969 film adaption. and He would sing a little bit of the title song, Hello Dolly, and he would play himself, Barbra Streis and Mary Thirms.
00:30:34
Speaker
ah which so funny The original Broadway run closed on December 27th in 1970 and Carol Shining left in 1965 to begin a US tour of the show and with Ginger Rogers kind of taking over the bar on Broadway. It grossed over $27 million against a $350,000 investment budget um but the life of the show was far from over and so there's been a kind of startling amount of revivals and tours. It would be completely impossible to run through each of the versions so here are a few kind of notable revivals and casts. So in 1965 there was two US tours starring Mary Martin, Carol Channing, Ginger Rogers and Betty Grebel.
00:31:11
Speaker
um all of whom who also turned the Broadway stage. There was a 1965 West End production at the Theatre Royal in Drury Lane, which ran for 794 performances and starred Mary Martin. We have the kind of four famous Broadway revivals, the first in 1975 starring Carl Bailey, 1978 and 1995 starring Kyle Channing again, and then of course recently 2017, which mostly starred Bette Midler and Bernadette Peters. we also had three west end revivals in ninety seventy nine again
00:31:43
Speaker
starring Carol Channing, one in 1984, which starred Danny LaRue, and then of course there's the upcoming West End revival starring Imelda Staunton, which is played for a limited run of 10 weeks at the London Palladium. There have also been countless international productions in Australia, Argentina, Cuba, Mexico, Buenos Aires, and they have all starred codified stars from each country, including Rosita Thorne's Sylvia Pinal and Danielle Romo, 1979 again. um and then of course as previously mentioned there was the 1969 film adaptation produced by 20th Century Fox, Hello Dolly, directed by Jean Kelly and then of course starring Ms Barbara Streisand as Dolly. The film won three Academy Awards including Best Score of a Musical Picture and was nominated in four other categories including Best Picture at the 42nd Academy Awards.
00:32:37
Speaker
So obviously we briefly started to touch on some of the people who were involved um in Hello Dolly. And I think best place to start would be with the music.
Contributors to 'Hello Dolly': Jerry Herman and Michael Stewart
00:32:48
Speaker
um And the music was written by a guy called Jerry Herman, who you may have just heard in Rose's love last segment. There's a bit more about him. So he is an American composer, a lyricist, basically known for Broadway theatre. Um, bit of a fun fact. I just thought I'm going to include this. His father was a gym teacher and his mother was a hotel singer and pianist. And what was really sweet was that, um, Jerry said in a People magazine interview in 1986, that his mother was as glamorous as, um, ah was glamorous like Maine and witty like Dolly. Um, which was really sweet. I thought that's really nice. Um,
00:33:34
Speaker
Which kind of has given away my next point, which is that he also wrote Mame. He also wrote Mac and Mabel. And I always say this wrong. La Casa Foles. ah casual like casual falls yeah the casual like casual falls um Which again, I didn't realise that he wrote. I don't know, it's odd. I kind of, I knew that he'd written it, but I just didn't associate that he'd written all of those musicals. It's kind of like ah the, what do you mc call it? The Oliver Effect, where like it's such a famous show, but I, and it's like, is it Lionel Bart? Like, yeah it's really bad that that guy's name is not more familiar to me, but you kind of get a bit blind, I think, to...
00:34:17
Speaker
to some of the, if they're not like perceived as big players. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Andron and Baba. And actually it's funny that you were talking about the music earlier because his music apparently was characterized by the upbeat and optimistic feel and apparently quote, it was called simple and hummable. so that kind of says that kind of serviceable ah yeah yeah it's not it's not really screaming maybe that's why his name isn't as big as like you know Bernstein because you know it'd be a bit a bit rude if someone said that Bernstein was simple and humble
00:34:56
Speaker
um But yes, as I said... Well, whatever you say there about Bernstein, I think... No, I think you're thinking of Jerry Herman. I think the thing with Jerry Herman is that his shows are so... I feel like there's so much personality in his shows. Yeah. Like we said before, the music isn't kind of the main... It's a musical, but his shows are so full of great characters. You can't get away with it. Yeah. Definitely, I feel like they've got so much, they're so cheesy and campy that I'll let him off. You were right, Jerry.
00:35:34
Speaker
um But yeah, so as as talked about earlier, he did go on to win Grammys. He won Grammys for best score for from an original car show album, which was for name in 1966. And he won a Grammy for the song of the year, ah which was Hello Dolly in 1964. So lots of Tonys all around and Grammys as well, because he also won Tonys for best composer and lyricist. for Hello Dolly in 1964, and Best Original Score for La Cajun Falls in 1984. And he also won at the Special Award for Lifetime Achievement in Theatre in 2009. So that was a nice one to mention. Yeah. um Lovely Jerry. um So yeah, so Jerry wrote the music. He also wrote the lyrics for the songs. And as Rosa briefly talked about the script, um which obviously was based on the matchmaker,
00:36:27
Speaker
um but Well, it's obviously based on a bit based on a story, based on a story, but people say it was based on the matchmaker by Thomas Wilder. um Which did you know it originated at Edinburgh Fringe? No, that's so funny! Yeah, so the matchmaker I think was first shown at Edinburgh Fringe and then from there people really liked it. Oh, blah. Just another plug for my show. um um yeah Yeah, go and see. Have your plug moment. Do it. Do it fully. So if anyone's going to Animal Fringe this year, this is such a side note. We will come back to Casting Creatives.
00:37:08
Speaker
If anyone can afford to go up to Edinburgh Fringe to see it, because it is bloody expensive, um please come see my show called Yes, We're Related. A dark comedy about two sisters dealing with grief. It's on a green side, riddles court at 4.20. And it's very funny. So if you're around, I would love, I'd love anyone to come and see it. It's a female-led creative team. So if you're listening to this pod, you're probably in the right place. um So yeah, sorry, that's my plug over and out. Back to the actual matter in hand, which is the guy who wrote the script. He actually wrote the script for the musical, a guy called Michael Stewart, um who's an American playwright and dramaturgist. He actually graduated from Yale um with a Master of Fine Art, which I thought was a little bit interesting.
00:38:00
Speaker
um And he also worked on Bye Bye Birdie, Mac and Mabel, Barnum, 42nd Street, and Bring Back Birdie. So he did quite a few. Yeah, it's very, I actually know that you point out the Bye Bye Birdie connection. It's a very similar humour, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is. It's like, the why is Kraken? Yeah. I mean, can we also just take a moment to talk about the movie and how many how many like things in the movie that they're like, this is hilarious, and you watch it now and you're like, oh my god. I can't find that it's still quite funny. Do you? I just was... yeah
00:38:41
Speaker
I found a lot of joy upon my rewatch of ah of Hello Darling that I didn't expect because I think when I watched it originally I wasn't that bothered about it and I re-encounter lots of joy and little pockets of silliness. Like I love that bit at the start where she's like going on about her kind of being a bit thingy with money and she's like speak it now but i left my pocketbook down in ba ba ba you got a 50 dollar there oh thank you i just think it's so silly but also what's really funny is how quickly she speaks like so quickly like but alert you're like
00:39:21
Speaker
you are brilliant, but what are you saying? And then she starts to sing and you're like, oh, the thing is though with Bob Streisand, she can really do no wrong. Like she, she could mess up every single word of that script, but the moment she sings, you're like, and there it is, and there it is. But that's what's the brilliant thing about her. Where's she? Oh, my God. Sorry for anyone um not ah for anyone listening. Casey's currently holding up. I believe a Fanny Brice themed Barbie of Barbra Streisand. Yes. It's like the most niche thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It's like the little sailor suit um kind of Keket-ish.
00:40:03
Speaker
It's what she wears. We need to get a picture of that for socials. It's what she wears in, oh yeah, definitely. In her duet with Judy. Oh, that's it. Sorry, it is. It's from the Judy Garland show, it's the mashup, forget your troubles, and happy days are here again. Yeah. That's it. I saw that clip the other day, it came on my Instagram and I was like, I forgot about this. I know. And the way that they hug at the end, It's something, what and there's something, there's like a really funny line that Barbara says, where she's like, oh, whatever, I feel a bit down on myself. I just look at you and I think, oh, I'm going to be better than her. And then Barbara's like, well, pick up the phone anytime. I'm happy to provide the motivation. like ah Very silly. Why do we not have shows like that anymore? I love, like, what would you, are they called variety shows? I'll tell you what we have got though.
00:40:57
Speaker
we've got We've got the icon herself, the hun herself, Jane McDonald. We do completely have Jane McDonald, but we do. Kelly's acting too. Of course. But to be fair, it's not to the kind the same kind of breath that like... I mean, Jane McDonald, that was also, that was a joke. I mean, her her on a cruise and then being like, you raised me up. You're like, right. Okay. I love i love that clip where she goes,
00:41:27
Speaker
in that cave that she goes, sounds good that, don't it? I love her. I do love her. I just lookeded up and i think they are just called variety shows. um Yeah, I mean, I think Kelly Clarkson says a variety show. She does a lot of singing on that too. Oh, she's brilliant. Yeah. And her guests come on and they sing as well. There's a great, I don't know actually if it, this is really bad of me for bad fan, but I think Gilda Radner had one at one point, or was it part of something else? but um Or maybe, actually, it may have been Madeline Kahn on the Carol Burnett show, but they do a really similar thing where it's kind of like, sat there having a little conversation and then it goes into, you know what, you're my best friend.
00:42:14
Speaker
You know what, you're my best friend too. You want to sing about it? Yeah, let's go. And then they start singing up. It's friendship, friendship. Oh my god. so um Of course. Also, this kind of reminds me, this kind of reminds me of like an SNL sketch. I feel like that's what they would do. yeah Like the like what was the what what's What's the one recently that we kept quoting, which was like, don't let me sing. that's That's what that reminds me of. Oh, don't let me sing. Yeah, I love that one. You're making me do it. you're have you so we We are going so off topic. Have you seen Kristen Wiig being Eliza Minnelli trying to turn off a lamp? um No. Yes, a million times. Oh my God, I need to. Peak, I know people hate the term physical comedy, but I don't know what else to describe it as peak physical comedy.
00:43:05
Speaker
Her body moves in ways that like, i it's crazy. It's basically, he goes, oh Liza, why don't you turn off that lamp? And then it's literally like a five minute of her, of Kristen wiggling. I'm trying. She's just doing all this and she goes, I can't turn off that lamp. Oh my God. Yeah. police We'll put it up on socials, but please go and seek out yourselves. It's so, so good.
Plot and Songs of 'Hello Dolly'
00:43:36
Speaker
Okay so now moving on to the plot of Hello Dolly which I found a lot harder than expected because most of the show's comedy kind of revolves around mix-ups and like chaos and that is where like a lot of the comedy comes from. Also a lot of principal characters it is a very very large cast so The show opens up and the whole town is abuzz because news is out that Dolly Levi is on her way back into town after recently becoming widowed. Dolly is a self-proclaimed medaller who specializes in matchmaking and lots of other frivolous jobs that continue to pop up during the course of the show as sort of a running gag.
00:44:16
Speaker
She's back in town to find a wife for grumpy half a millionaire, Horace van der Gelder, who is interested in marrying Irene Malloy, a recent widow and hat shop owner in Yonkers. But what he doesn't know is that Dolly intends on marrying Horace for herself. So she tries a few different ways in order to off-put the unionship of Irene and Horace in order to make room for herself. At the same time, while this is all going on, Horace's two employees, Barnaby and Cornelius, are left to run the store whilst Horace is gone, and they quickly decide that they too will leave for New York in order to find themselves a gal. They quickly find Irene Malloy, the woman to which Horace is interested in marrying, and her assistant Minnie Fay. And the two pairs fall quickly in love with one another, with the only catch being that the boys are pretending they are wealthy,
00:45:05
Speaker
Dolly then steps in and gets the boys a table at the fancy restaurant, the Harmonia Gardens, to try and impress the ladies. Whilst this is going on...
00:45:17
Speaker
Dolly is also helping a gentleman named Ambrose Kemper, who is interested in marrying Horace's niece, Ermengard, to which Horace opposes, just quickly in there, Ambrose and Ermengard are so such unneeded characters. They do not. I know. They're whiny and annoying. They're irritating. They're really irritating. They serve no purpose to the plot. This would be fine with Barnaby Cornelius. yeah Minnie and Irene and then Dolly and Horace. That's the main... Yeah. So unneeded. They make me like... You know how most of the time you're rooting for characters to get together? I don't... I'm like... Both just leave. Like, I don't want you to end up married because you're irritating me. So, with Dolly still trying to win over the annoyed Horace, she sets him up on a terrible date with an annoying woman called Ernestina.
00:46:10
Speaker
in order to make herself look like a more viable option. This all then takes place at the same night at the Harmonia Gardens. So throughout the night, there are lots of mishaps mixed up and mischief leading to all the characters being brought before the courts. Super random, but but I love this the stage show. To which Dolly acts as an attorney for herself and all the others. This sounds like something sorry this sounds like something that could be in like Chicago. Do you know what I mean? Like, it sounds like something so ridiculous. Oh, God. It's so silly. It is. Axel's attorney for herself and all the others successfully saves the day. And then after this, we sort of see all of Dolly's couples have ended up happily together as a result of her meddling. And Horace finally admits he has feelings for Dolly, leading the two to wed in the show's final scene.
00:47:07
Speaker
That whole second act is kind of just that those last couple of sentences because all of the comedy comes from kind of the setting in the harmonia gardens where lots of different things are happening. So you've got people's wallets have gone missing and then you've got the boys pretending that they're wealthy, trying to impress the girls, the girls trying to impress the boys into thinking that they are these like high society, like um classy ladies. You've got Horace on this date with like a really annoying like She's kind of like the Janice of the show. yeah Like she has like a really distinct laugh and is kind of really over the top. In the movie she also in the parade is on a on a meat float holding a pig and it always makes me laugh.
00:47:52
Speaker
um So yeah and then it's kind of the the comedy kind of comes from all of this like going from table to table and all the kind of mishaps. that's kind of where the comedy comes from. Seeing it on stage was absolutely incredible because during that court scene it kind of had all the harmonia gardens set out, it was gorgeous um and then obviously all the big fights and like the the mix up causes like a ruckus on stage and everyone's kind of fighting and shouting and it suddenly just kind of gets like swept off stage and a court gets like swept in so then you've got like a judge like a magistrate judge on like a big podium the characters all kind of then sit on the I don't know what you call it the galleys like the seats in a court yeah I think it's or like the dark yeah
00:48:47
Speaker
Basically, so everything kind of swept away and the court scene is brought in apart from Dolly's table. So Dolly is still sat there with like a massive plate of food whilst they're in the court scene. And it's just really funny. Cause like I said, the whole running gag the whole way through is kind of like, she's like, oh, I'm a matchmaker. I'm a medaller. I'm a seamstress. I'm a, you know, I'm a dance instructor. I'm a fire woman. Like she has all of these different jobs that she gives out on little cards, which is kind of the running gag. then you've got everyone kind of shouting and the court judge is like, who is the attorney? like who Who shall be the attorney for this case? And they all kind of just like turn to look at Dolly. And no joke, for a solid six, seven minutes, it is just everybody staring at Dolly while she's eating. And there are so many moments where you think she's going to stop.
00:49:41
Speaker
And she just doesn't. So like when I was watching it, it was like, Bernadette Peters had this like huge giant turkey leg. And it's like gnawing on this giant turkey leg while it is like silent, you could hear a pin drop. And then you think she puts it down and you're like, Oh, she's going to turn and like realize what's going on. But then she kind of turns around and brings out like a jug of gravy. And then pouring the gravy on the food and then puts the gravy down and you're like, Oh, is she going to realize now? But then she starts to like drink the gravy from the jug and continues to eat. It goes on for so long. And.
00:50:16
Speaker
I was watching, it was so funny, but I don't know, feel free to disagree with me in this. But I think, I love Bernadette Peters, but I think she's such a Sondheim girl. Not that Sondheim can't be funny. I i agree. There's some Sondheim parts that are quite funny, but I feel like she's so so dramatic and kind of... emotional and I think she kills those roles and she killed Dolly don't get me wrong but I can't she's not this big sort of comedic character actress she's an amazing like it was incredible watching her on stage in such an iconic role
00:50:55
Speaker
but I don't think she has the the same sort of je ne sais quoi that all of those like big comedic sort of you know actresses have like Bette Midler, Carol Burnett, all those kind of ladies. You know what though? I would like to see Patti LuPone do that part. Because I feel like she's a bridge. She's like a bridge between the Sondheim and this because she can be very funny like unintentionally sometimes she can be very funny I also feel like her voice would be very funny in this I think yeah I think she's got the right temperament for it as well I think Bernadette Peters for me even though she's such a big star she's so very like small in her mannerisms and her like even her voice sounds she's very like
00:51:49
Speaker
I can't even explain it. It just sounds like it's not a big voice. It's so everything's sort of like tight and pulled up. yeah It's more constrained. Yeah. death like It's just, I feel like Dolly needs to be like, whoa and have that sort of Ethel Mermanness to it, which I think you can really tell it's been, it she was created with Ethel in mind. Yeah. It's, there's like an offbeatness that you need for Dolly as well, because she is so different from You just, you just really need to be able to believe, especially like in that second act when all the wait staff are like, Dolly's coming back to the restaurant. Dolly's going to the restaurant. They're all falling over and like they say like, oh, she eats so much and all of this. And they're like, service has got to run two times quick tonight. Cause Dolly's coming in. Like they just, and then when she eventually comes in and she's in that gorgeous dress and they sing, hello Dolly. You just so need to be able to arrive at that like moment and feel like, Oh my God, a presence has really arrived.
00:52:49
Speaker
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think Bernadette Peters, I feel like I don't want to feel like I'm shitting on Bernadette Peters. We love you bear love so much. But I just think that this she she did it and she killed it, but I just don't think this is her role. and That being said, it was up I think um I can't actually remember how long she'd been off Broadway at that point. I've got a feeling it was like, 10 years, eight nine, 10 years that she hadn't been on Broadway. So Hello Dolly was like her sort of like resurgence on Broadway or kind of like a one-off. So during the opening, the call on Dolly that when she comes in, in that scene, she has like a paper cover in her face.
00:53:37
Speaker
And when it goes, call on, and she puts the paper down and goes, darling Levi, the whole, like it stopped. It did stop for a good five minutes with people just standing up and applauding. And I think the same thing happened for Bette Midler as well. But they say is it wasn't it like, there was like a record breaking standing ovation at the top of a show where like, yeah it was like, I think one night it was like 15 minutes that people were just like Bette Midler. Wow. Yeah, so yeah, and it just completely stops the show because people were and it was amazing to see like I just imagine how that feels. To be fair, to be fair, I had that in, there but I had that. I mean, I, as an audience member, had that when I went to go see Company in the UK, because obviously, like, that was like a big cast and having Patti LuPone
00:54:32
Speaker
I remember when she first came on stage, everyone was like, oh my God. And then when she sang her first song, people couldn't stop clapping. People were like on their feet screaming. And she was just there like, I know, it's me. And it was so brilliant because it was like classic fatty. So yeah, I do love that though.
00:54:57
Speaker
Now is the time for a little bit more music. um So I decided to talk about it takes a woman, which I know is a bit niche, but it takes a woman reprise. So it's the one that Dolly sings, um which is a lot better in my opinion. It's a much, it's a much faster song. So to be honest, I mean, as we talked about, the music is very simple. It's really, really simple. it's written in 4-4, it's F major so nothing kind of too complicated ah but there's something that feels different about this reprise to the song that you hear literally just before which is sang by men which is a lot more kind of like like jolly and kind of happy and whereas this one feels a bit more like romantic, it feels a bit slower and it feels like it's really about the
00:55:50
Speaker
the vocals leading the music, rather than like the music being like, we're gonna have a jolly song. um So kind of the opening is this very like slow melodic instrumental line, mainly kind of led by the violins, which I always think a violin, if a violin is like, is what you hear the most of, it's it kind of has that romantic feel, right? Because a like ah violin has very like long musical sounds. So it's kind of the it's the it's the dominant sound that you hear, And it kind of suggests straight away this kind of almost like romantic switch and this kind of legato feel to to the whole song, um which is a really nice kind of opposition to the very upbeat, cheerful version that we had before. And the music is now written in moderato, which basically means it's a bit slower.
00:56:41
Speaker
And it feels, it feels very free. And it feels like, as I said, it feels like the music is very much led to Dolly's voice. I mean, that's just classic Barbra Streisand, like, funny girl. That, like, I love, I love the soundtrack of Funny Girl. This is not going to be like a Funny Girl bit. But I just love that there's so many songs in that which you can just tell. Barbara's just like, I'm gonna sing, I'm just gonna sing and you follow me. Which is just, it's just, I love, it's brilliant. And she she definitely does that in this song. um And it kind of almost feels like a jazzier, even though I've really looked at the music, I was like, there's no difference in the notes that are actually played or sung. but it does feel like a jazzier version than heard in the previous song and it almost kind of feels like she adds like little embellishments that sound as though she's like slightly flattening stuff and but her her singing style feels a bit more kind of chromatic and a bit more bluesy than in like the original version that you hear it before. um But she essentially sings like a verse, a verse kind of structure
00:57:48
Speaker
but the lyrics are slightly different to the original song. I think the original song has lyrics, which is like, it takes a woman all powdered in pink to joyously clean out the drain and sink, which I'm like, well, you that's not me. You won't catch me doing that. um But then her version is a bit more clever. It's a bit more like, it takes a woman to quietly plan to take him and to change him to her kind of man. So it's kind of like a man's perspective on a woman versus a woman's perspective on a woman. And I think we all know which version I'm gonna pick.
00:58:26
Speaker
just So which is kind of nice because I feel like in a lot of these musicals you don't really get that. You kind of get like a man being like a woman, it's a woman and you're like I'd actually quite like to hear the woman's voice actually which is kind of nice about Hello Dolly. I feel like her voice is the most important voice in the story. um Which is why I like the reprint book. That kind of perspective of the man being like, this, this, and this, the woman kind of coming in there with like, actually, I'm going to kind of control from behind the scenes and you're not going to know, really reminds me of that quote from
00:59:06
Speaker
Is it my big fat Greek wedding? Where the... Yes. The man is the head. And she can turn the head any anyway she wants. I love that. I know I do love that. I do love that scene as well because the way that she does it, she's like she walks away like waggling her finger and you're like... she's yeah she's wearing pants um so yeah so she sings kind of the first verse of it and then classic barbara she doesn't need to say anything for the rest of it and she just mirrors the melody by being like
00:59:40
Speaker
is just humming it, which I love. It's classic. I love a Barbara hum. Oh, me too. Me too. It's just that. I mean, that's why I had to do the song. So she basically hums her um exactly the same melodic line with a few kind of more embellishments. And it almost kind of feels like she's ending the song in this like daydream. of kind of thinking like how much she loves this man. She's like, I'm gonna get him. Like, it it'll be fine. Like, ohll I'll make my plan. And I don't need to tell you the rest of my plan because I'm Dolly. um And then it kind of ends with this beautiful, like sit like, I kind of like to call it like a cinematic fade. You know, like at the end of a movie where it's like, du and it has like a beautiful like fade and like chimes and everything kind of comes together. That's kind of how the song ends, which kind of is like,
01:00:30
Speaker
I mean, it's going a bit deep, but it's kind of like a precursor to how the end actually is, that her plan does work and it does kind of all come together.
01:00:43
Speaker
So moving on to perhaps one of the most famous songs from Hello Dolly, and it's definitely in my top three of songs from Hello Dolly, is Put On Your Sunday Clothes. um I love this song. I think it's just so cheery and bright and it's busy, which I quite like. The song just sort of represents new beginnings. So here we see all of the characters sort of donning their glad rags and getting themselves ready to go out and look for love. And it all feels very like fresh and everyone's kind of, you know, upbeat. So the message of the song is basically, if you feel good about yourself, good things will happen and you will look at the world with a more positive approach.
01:01:27
Speaker
ah So, looking at some of the lyrics. So, put on your Sunday clothes when you feel down and out. Struck down the street and have your picture tuck. Dressed like a dream, your spirits seem to turn around. That Sunday shine is a certain sign that you feel as fine as you look. Aww, that's really sweet. Brilliant English way I just say. What did what was that something took? Yeah, strut down the street and have your picture tuck. just have your picture took. I mean, also the thing that's very funny about the movie is the accents, like the guy, I can't remember which part he plays, but he's a British actor.
01:02:04
Speaker
And some of his some of his words, I'm like, well, that was a bit dodgy, wasn't it? But it kind of, I don't know. it this There's a whole transatlantic thing, isn't it? the whole like The transatlantic accent blows my mind every time because I'm like, what do you mean all these old movies with all these British actors are actually American? Yeah, it's all very odd. It's all very strange. And people used to have transatlantic dialect coaches, which Probably not a thing anymore, or but I want one. That'd be great. Imagine going around talking like that. Anyway, and so the reason the song is one of my favourites is just with how happy it is. The whole town is abuzz with Dolly's return. She's right back in her element, meddling and matchmaking, getting like straight on it. This is like right at the beginning of the show. I'm i'm sure it's like one of the first numbers. and So it was just an absolute spectacle. I think this is probably why it's like,
01:03:03
Speaker
tweaked its way into the one of the top spots for me. Because watching this on stage in that 2017-2018 production, was it was just incredible. The costumes were gorgeous and during this they all kind of came out in these really Victorian-esque sort of clothing but they were all bright, vivid colours. Bright pinks, bright oranges. bright yellows and like powder blue, it was really lovely, just like kind of nice to see. And they all kind of have like parasols and we're all just doing this really nice choreography where they were all kind of moving to beat. And then during the climax of the song, a full steam train enters the stage, which really, it I think in a lot of productions, they kind of
01:03:48
Speaker
which still is cute. It's a really nice piece of choreography where they kind of get the parasols and make them like, it kind of looks like a train and they're kind of like moving. Whereas, yeah, like they just brought out a steam train. I was like, surely not. It was fully like, I see the smoke coming on. And it's like, oh, is it like just sort of effect backstage? No, a whole train just came on the stage and they all and they all got on it. um You've got to give props sometimes just to like the money behind those quick budget. It's like in my Saigon with the helicopter, like you could just, it would probably be just as impactful if you just had like and some lights, like we would be fine. Yeah, but in the movie, in the, I couldn't believe how many extras there were. Like so many people, you're just like, and that bloody parade, you're like, how many people are there? It's mental.
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of my favorite lines in the film after the whole mix up in the hat shop with Irene and Horace is kind of thinking that she's a wild woman about town with the two men in the shop. He says, I'm gonna go and march in the 14th street parade with the only kind of people I can trust, 700 men. It's like, okay. And then it turns out he's just in the parade. It's like really weird. Like, okay. Yeah, that's really weird. He's doing like this weird like military thing and you're like, okay. It never fully explained like, okay, go and hang out with 700 men. Yeah, yeah. I was saying it was funny then because in the parade, he was like, I'm trying to get some peace and quiet. And then you're like, you're in a parade. like I'm so confused what's happening right now. Yeah, that's so funny. Forest, that sounds a bit gay babes.
01:05:26
Speaker
ah is Also, can we just talk about the two his two workers that work in the shop, the most gay-coded... They are such a couple. ah like I'm like, you guys want to be together. You want to run away to New York. Yeah. like To find a gal? A quick question. We're not coming home until we kiss a girl. like You're not coming home until you kiss each other. That's what we're getting from this. Yeah, so after the big steam train enters, like all of the cast kind of got on it and start like waving to the chorus as they're like, go off on this train. It's just... They do that in the movie. They're like, yeah. And you're like, oh, God, no one's like that on a train. It was just brilliant. But like, for like five minutes as well being like, and you're like, oh, God. Brilliant. So I just could not look away.
01:06:14
Speaker
i The orchestration of Put On Your Sunday Clothes is rich and full, employing a wide range of instruments that create a vibrant and colourful sound, which I think kind of adds to the sort of happiness of it. So the use of brass strings and woodwinds, which I don't know what woodwinds are, but found out after this, along with a lively percussion, adds to the song's festive atmosphere. So as well as what I think is really great, it's kind of really simple. I feel like anyone would do it, but the beats in the song replicating sort of the chugging of the steam train. So like towards the end when they're like, to do to do, do, do, do, do, do. And it goes like slower and it kind of really, and they have like the little bell ringing for the train. Oh, it is really nice because it's all kind of sang together in harmony.
01:07:04
Speaker
and you've got everyone kind of like mimicking the chugging of the steam train like everybody like waving away on the it's just brilliant it's just happy and you're just like wow that was great it gives me like um from a little night music a weekend in the country you know when they the kind of like last section of that song where all of their parts begin to overlap and they're all on the the boxcars going yeah like it yeah very joyful um Put On Your Sunday Clothes also gained renewed popularity with its inclusion in the 2008 animated film, Wally, which I've never seen, Wally. I know, I forgot about that. Yeah, no, no, because it's like, I think it's Wally gets a TV or something, or like a cassette tape, I can't remember, and he plays it. And then I was like, why do I know this? And it wasn't till I read that, I was like, oh my God, hello, Dolly. So it played a key role in the movie's storyline.
01:08:00
Speaker
um The exposure introduced the song to a new generation and solidifies its status as an iconic piece of musical theatre. But I think, yes, specifically it plays put on your Sunday clothes as well as like a a few other kind of snippets throughout the film, which I just thought was really cute. Pretty cute little tidbit of information there. and But yeah, obviously, like we said, it's not the deep, like the songs aren't the deepest. I think in hindsight, probably one of the the best to kind of look at would have been before the parade passes by. I think that's kind of such a kind of moment where Dolly has it to herself on stage and it's not this kind of showboating and this look at me and this sort of persona that she puts on. It's kind of very internalized and how she feels about herself and her aging and like her widow. It's just about saying I'm going to go after
01:08:54
Speaker
um um I'm gonna go after what I want. It's a funny show because it's really like it kind of is just like pure escapism like it's just silly and so far school and just like but um we're in a hack shop now there's a pig in a parade like very silly. but actually it's quite moving like the whole you know obviously Dolly's dealing with the death of her husband and processing that grief and deciding that actually she does want to you know reach out back to the world again like it's quite uh i don't know that feels like quite powerful i also love like the whole storyline to do with Dolly wanting to like
01:09:30
Speaker
So it's like ah like a socialist idea of like redistributing wealth and like putting wealth back out into the world and by the end she kind of changes he's quite miserly and she changes him to be more like giving and like I've always thought that was like a really nice added character touch because obviously they show her as being like a bit money orientated but she's money orientated with people who have a lot of money if that makes sense, and the point is that she is giving and kind and like very believed that yeah one should be that money should filter through the system and and give back to the exploited, but but yeah, I always thought that was quite nice.
01:10:10
Speaker
I also was going to say the one of the best line reads from the movie is when um doll Dolly and Horace kind of have that fight and he's like, I'd never marry you. And she's like, OK, well, I'm going now. And she sings so long, dearie. ah She the way that Barbastry doesn't delivers. It's so good. Or she's like, they're just talking. She's like, Horace, well, I just came here to say goodbye. but like
01:10:41
Speaker
yeah It comes out of nowhere! Nowhere, like she doesn't like the the word before like say she doesn't it's not as if she does like I just like I I just came here to say good like she's literally like I just came here to say goodbye like it is it is crazy goodbye goodbye Love her. Oh, brilliant song. I love that. Which is like, don't try to stop me, Horace. And he's really not trying to stop her in any single way. no ah as same well She's blocking him from bleeding. Don't try to stop me, Horace, please.
01:11:25
Speaker
As we've previously mentioned, one of the most famous or infamous adaptations of Hello Dolly was the 1969 musical film starring Barbra Streisand. It did actually initially do well in its first week at the box office, but then quickly began to dwindle and became an overall disappointment, not kind of recouping the money that was spent. And I think with Hello Dolly, you can't get around the budget yes you need a big budget like cost like dolly needs to have a different outfit every scene it needs to be in the movie all of a sudden she was in a purple dress so i was like when did that costume change on yeah i think it's just kind of a character quirk like like everything like the harmonia garden set like it just needs to have a big budget behind it whether it being
01:12:16
Speaker
film or screen. You can't kind of get away with doing it. not and And I think we were originally going to be doing it for one of our productions at university. I knew you were going to mention this. It breaks my heart but then we just got told like we don't have the budget for it. like And it's just true. It would have been so expensive. I would have done it whatever. and No budget needed. Just all wear black for one women's show. I essentially did. I used so long dairy for um so my one weird mafia therapist for one women's show.
01:12:52
Speaker
Yeah, of course.
01:12:56
Speaker
and So yeah, it just became an overall disappointment. So the overall consensus was that Streisand was spectacular, but just far too young for
Barbra Streisand's Film Adaptation Challenges
01:13:04
Speaker
the role. Like, oh my God, how good would she have been if they had decided to delay doing an adaption and did it in like even the 1990s? Yeah, I agree. Like imagine her doing it like during the whole like imagine if they got her during the Bette Midler like bob not that she would ever take it. I don't think we'd ever we're ever going to really see her on a stage again. But imagine Barbra Shire's undoing it now.
01:13:30
Speaker
ah i know that's the That's the thing about Dolly is it's one of those roles that you age into rather than age out of. yeah It has no upper age limit. It works from like 50 upwards. You could have a 110 year old playing that part and it would still be funny. yeah and i think ah in incredible choice. I absolutely love her but she's just far too young for the role like no one's going to believe that I mean it happens but no one's going to believe that everyone like around you that is your age is all suddenly widowed and
01:14:04
Speaker
you're kind of like scared of aging and before the parade passes by like you're not going anywhere on like yeah also being a widow at 27 is a lot sadder not that obviously it's sad losing your husband at any age but like it's a very different thing being a widow in your 20s than being a widow when you're in your 80s Yeah, yeah. You've had a life with someone so like you're more just like oh god like this is it's only it's not been long. No. That's what I mean. I think she's a bit more time. Yeah. The process. So yeah she was just far too young for the role and also I what what I think contributes to it was just the changing tastes like the legit musicals felt outdated to many viewers and I think
01:14:47
Speaker
the golden age of movie musicals was that kind of like from Wizard of Oz up until like 50s I'm gonna say um maybe early 60s but like Dolly was pushing it it was 1968 1969 during all this when you think about movie musicals from like late 1960s like 1970s, that's when you're going to have hair, Rocky Horror, Cabaret, Grease. They're so different to that kind of like Oklahoma and South Pacific and all of those kinds of shows, which I think Dolly kind of falls into. um And I just think it was too late. I think it needed to be done a lot earlier with somebody a lot older. and think would I mean, we're like a couple of years away from like Cabaret and Chicago and things like that. like
01:15:35
Speaker
It's just getting darker and sexier and it's so tame. Hello Dolly. Like there's lots of double entendres, but like there's no real grit or like drama. No. Yeah. like That's what I mean. It's, it, it just, I think late sixties, there wasn't really much else going on. Like I can't remember specific years, but I think South Pacific and all those like that had kind of been done during the fifties, like very early sixties, like when you think of Calamity Jane and all these kinds of things, they were just. It kind of falls into that category and it was just done far too late to kind of held up to the same standards that they were with the same sort of audience. So everything, everyone had kind of sort of shifted away from that. Also, the song Elegance was going to be cut from the film version, but it was thought to be kept in.
01:16:22
Speaker
which brilliant. I love that. And it's so cute on stage as well, the little choreography that they do for it on stage. But that that elegant song is good because it works on two levels because obviously it'll be revealed later that the girls did know that they weren't rich and just having fun all day. So in that number, the boys think that they're teaching the girls that They think they're getting one over almost because they're convincing them that elegance comes in different forms and actually the new thing is to walk places and not be taking other places. So the boys think they're getting one over and the girls are playing along essentially. So like it's me, I like that number. I thought it was very hugging cheek very funny. It's just great and it's really cheeky.
01:17:06
Speaker
and So Hello Dolly was one of the most expensive films made at the time with a budget of 25 million. and So like the lavish production values, extensive sets and elaborate costumes significantly increase the financial burden of the film, making it harder to turn a profit. And with it being such a bomb at the box office after the first two weeks, it just didn't really recoup what it had put out. So it was just kind of like a flop, which sad but. It was lots of courses. There was a lot of horses in the movie. So I was like, I don't know if you need all these horses. They have that song literally around a horse and you're like, I don't know if you need to do that. Well, as you've mentioned, the hat shop is just extra ordinary large. It's just ridiculous.
01:17:56
Speaker
dick you're like Who has a hat shop this big? How many hats are you selling? i know It's like the size of a ballroom. it If anyone hasn't seen it, it's literally the size of a ballroom. It's mental. So onto a bit of juicy goss then. So Barbara Streisand admitted that she didn't have the best time with Walter Mathau and Jean Kelly working on the film. so This is all a big quote and from Barbara. So she says, I was disappointed when the reality of the man didn't live up to the fantasy I had from watching him on screen. Streisand writes, one day he was so rude to a female dancer. This is about Jean Kelly. ah So one day he was so rude to a female dancer that I asked him privately, why were you so mean to her? And he basically laughed and said, yeah, I was pretty tough on her, but that's okay. I used to yell like that at another dancer and she became my wife.
01:18:55
Speaker
Oh great, thanks. Also, Debbie Reynolds also had like bad things to say about him during the filming of ah Singing in the Rain. that um the good morning sequence, apparently. Oh, he made a cry, didn't he? Yeah, he made a cry during the filming of that and they were filming it for like hours and hours and hours until she got it right. my god I think he was, I think he was just such a perfectionist. I mean, not he sounds very misogynistic in all the stories I've heard from him, but I think he was so like hell-bent on everything being perfect and up to his standards that I think he was just really rude to everyone who he didn't kind of see as an equal.
01:19:37
Speaker
So then Barbara goes on to say, I felt as if Jean and Walter had an attitude towards me and it was not positive, especially on Walter's part. She writes in the memoir, so in her book that's just come out. and In fact, he was overtly hostile and I couldn't figure out why. Mathau got upset over her making suggestions to Kelly during filming, especially when her ideas seemed to work. And in one instance, he yelled, who the hell does she think she is? I've been in this business 30 years and this is only her second movie. The first one hasn't even come out yet. And now she's directing.
01:20:15
Speaker
He then turned to Streisand with pure venom and said, you may be the singer in this picture, but I'm the actor. I have more talent in my farts than you have in your whole body. I mean, look, I'm not going to sit here and defend her directing skills because we've all seen Seattle. Oh, no, no, no. But that's unbelievable. You don't say that. I'm just, I can't with the, I have more talent in my farts than you have in your whole body. love her so much.
Iconic Performers and Recasting 'Hello Dolly'
01:20:49
Speaker
So then just onto a whole bunch of iconic ah musical theatre and just overall fabulous ladies that have starred as Dolly. So obviously we have the aforementioned Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Bernadette Peters and Carol Channing.
01:21:08
Speaker
ah But we also have Donna Murphy, who I'm pretty sure she was Dolly during Bette Midler's run. um I think it was like written into Bette's contract that she couldn't do like a Wednesday or like a Friday. It was something like that. And Donna Murphy stepped in on those nights, which kind of feels like it was kind of played as a constellation prize, but I loved Donna Murphy. I loved Donna Murphy, yeah. Yeah, absolutely incredible lady. Madeline Kahn, my one true love, Betty Buckley, Ginger Rogers, Betty Grayball, Ethel Merman. I didn't know this, Tova Felcher, which icon, I love Tova Felcher. If anyone has seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, she plays
01:22:01
Speaker
Rebecca's mom in that, which is a brilliant show as well. Of course she does. Yeah, I've never talked about that before. Another big name that has played Dolly is Laini Kazan, who we just spoke about from being in a My Big Fat Greek Wedding and also, and more notably, Abuela in the Bratz movie. Of course. Oh my gosh, of course. And also, Cece's Mum in Beaches. Yeah, Cece's Mum in Beaches. That's the big one that I know her from, like, before. I think that was like a big moment for me when I was younger, because I used to love my big, fat, great planning. And then thinking that it was her mum in Beaches. So yeah, some big, big names that have played Dolly. I would have loved to have seen Carol Burnett do it. I'm not sure why Carol Burnett never did it. That would have been brilliant. Yeah, that was the same choice.
01:22:57
Speaker
Another big player that I think would have been great, Lily Tomlin. I was about to say Lily Tomlin. But then she could have gotten her ego. Oh, have you seen all the videos of Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda like poking at each other? Very sweet. Have you got and a Grammy? Yeah, how many have you got before? Oh, I have none. It's been nominated a bunch of times though. How many Oscars do you have? I'm not telling you. Yeah, then we'll put that up on socials, it's very cute. Oh cute, love those two together.
01:23:38
Speaker
Alright guys, so this week I want you to cast the main characters of Hello Dolly, not using another show. But to celebrate the recent Tony Awards, which on our date of recording was last night, I want you to cast the characters of Dolly Levi, Horace Van Der Gelder, Cornelius Hackill, Barnaby Tucker, Irene Malloy, and Minnie Fay from our recent Tony Award winners. So I'll just run those through. So these are all performers who won ah the acting category, is so featured or lead roles in plays or musicals. So we have Will Brill, who won for Stareophonic,
01:24:19
Speaker
Jeremy Strong, who won for an enemy of the people. Carrie Young, who won for pearly victorious and non-confederate romp through the cotton patch. Keisha Lewis, who won for Hell's Kitchen. Daniel Radcliffe, merrily we roll along. Jonathan Gropp, for merrily we roll along. Malia Joymoon, for Hell's Kitchen. And Sarah Paulson, for appropriate. So take your pick of that crop. Who do we want in each roll? I would do Sarah Paulson for Donnie. I was just about to say that, yeah. I think she'd be great. And she's so funny as well. I know she doesn't do a lot of comedy, Sarah Paulson, but she actually is so funny. Yeah, I agree. I am leaning towards Jeremy Strong for Horace van der Gelder because he is just so grumpy. like I think he has that like, curmudgeonly spirit against him. I also kind of think Jeremy Strong
01:25:17
Speaker
Obviously a bit annoying method I'd probably do kind of think he can do it all wrong. He's just so good in every part. He's got that stoic nature.
01:25:29
Speaker
i I'm gonna go out there and say Jonathan Groff as Cornelius. yeah Perfect. Yeah. Like I could really imagine him be like, out there, there's a word outside of Yonkers. And I think pairing him with Daniel Radcliffe. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. He's got that little brother energy. So we just have Irene Malloy and Minifei left the cast. I'm thinking Malia for Minnie. Yes. Yep. Malia Joymoon. Yeah. And then Cara for Irene.
01:26:06
Speaker
perfect i mean that obviously they're the the tony award winners so they're kind of the cream of the crop of broadway this year but we've done pretty good i think that is a solid solid cast for hello dolly so just to recap as dolly levi we have the Incomparable, Sarah Paulson. As Horace van der Gelder, we have Jeremy Strong. For Cornelius Hackl, we have Jonathan Groff, Barnaby Tucker, Daniel Radcliffe, Irene Malloy, Malia Joy Moon, and Minnie Fay, which is Kara Young. Let's get it sorted. I'll send them a text. I'll make a group chat.
Episode Wrap-up
01:26:46
Speaker
All right, thank you so much for joining us on this slightly less musical episode of Sunday on the Pod, where we focused a little bit more on our female comedy heroines, our Carol Channing's and our Caroline Ahern's of the world. ah Just a reminder that you guys can keep up with us on social media. Please do. We post fun stuff every week and um yeah, reach out to us. Let us know what you want us to cover next. Let us know your thoughts on this episode. What do you think about the 1969 movie? Do you think that and Barbara was miscast? I want to hear your thoughts on how big her hair is and how ridiculous that hat shop is. ah Let us know. You can find us at Sunday in the Pod on Instagram and X. And you can also find us on our Facebook page, Sunday on the Pod. And just like that, we then call on... Dally! Bye!