Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Sunday on the Pod with... Casey, Flo and Rosa!
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Sunday on the Pod with...
Speaker: Welcome to Sunday on the Pod.
Speaker: Sunday on the Pod is a podcast all about musical theatre.
Speaker: However, this podcast isn't just for performers, but it's for anyone who loves musical theatre.
Speaker: Each episode we cover musicals that some of you may love, some of you might hate, or maybe you've never heard of them before.
Speaker: Either way, we will be singing and dancing about them.
Speaker: Now, if you didn't already know, we pick a musical and we discuss its plot, the show's creators dissecting specific songs lyrically, musically, delving into any juicy gossip in our brand new segment called Stage Door Secrets, and my personal favourite, putting on our very own casting director hats and choosing a fantasy cast with another brand new segment, the Mega Mix Casting.
Speaker: There's a lot of new changes and I can't wait to get stuck in.
Speaker: So, what are you waiting for?
Speaker: Sit back and enjoy the pod.
Speaker: And just a reminder to everyone that the best way to support our show is by rating and reviewing us wherever you listen.
Speaker: We're available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Speaker: And you can keep up with us on socials.
Speaker: We're at Sunday on the Pod on Instagram and Twitter.
Speaker: And you can find us on our Facebook page, which is Sunday on the Pod.
Speaker: So, what musical are we discussing today?
Speaker: I can hear you all shiver with Antissa.
Speaker: Patience.
Speaker: very good very good i was waiting to see how long you were gonna go with that it could have been like three minutes yeah it could have been ages it could have we are covering the rocky horror picture show can't wait actually very exciting because i love this musical i watched a lot of musicals growing up
Speaker: But I think this was one of the first where I really kind of fell in love with theatre and performance and kind of seen what performance could be.
Speaker: And it was just great.
Speaker: I think it's one of those shows, especially if you're a gay teen growing up.
Speaker: I remember discovering it when I was 14, being like, oh my God, I feel seen.
Speaker: yeah which is really I mean it obviously has a heavy like queer following but I mean even for me who didn't even know at the time I watched it I must have only been about 13 but it kind of resonates with you it is kind of a musical for people who don't fit in I feel and it kind of resonates with people in that way and that's why I think it gained such a
Speaker: cult following as as it were but it's so interesting because I when I remember being like oh my god Rocky Horror no one in my because I was kind of the weird one in school that liked musicals and everyone else kind of didn't so I was already weird and then I was like oh Rocky Horror like these people get me like I guess I'm just a weirdo and then Perks of Being a Wallflower came out and in Perks of Being a Wallflower
Speaker: the characters do the, we'll go on to this later, but they participate in the Rocky Horror Picture Show in one of the shadow casts, and then suddenly it became a bit mainstream.
Speaker: And everyone who watched Perks of Being a Wallflower was suddenly obsessed with the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Speaker: Very interesting.
Speaker: And it was kind of like, you know when you're that age and you're like, you almost get a bit possessive over the things that you like.
Speaker: Like now, I'm like, oh, people just can just like whatever.
Speaker: But when you're like 14 and someone likes a band that you like, you're like, in your head, you're like,
Speaker: they don't like them as much as I do.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: It's just like, it's just like when it's like, it's like when someone has like a top and then they buy the same top as you and you're like, that was my top first.
Speaker: Like I went to Gap before you went to Gap.
Speaker: You can't wear the same Gap foot as me.
Speaker: Like, yeah, I went to Gap Kids all the time and I'm not afraid to say it.
Speaker: Gap Kids was fantastic.
Speaker: It was great.
Speaker: I was so, I was so annoying.
Speaker: I would be that kid that was like,
Speaker: if anybody had anything to do with Marilyn Monroe, like, and she's heavily commercialized now, she's on everything.
Speaker: But if anything had any, I'd be like, oh, what's your favorite movie of hers?
Speaker: And they'd be like, oh, and I'd be like, oh, really, mine's Niagara.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, was it gentlemen prefer blondes?
Speaker: Typical.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How predictable.
Speaker: There's no business like show business.
Speaker: What a shock.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: But also, I guess this episode is extra special because if you didn't already know, it's spooky season.
Speaker: Well, it's just been spooky season.
Speaker: So we have just had Halloween and my personal favourite bonfire night, which is actually tonight.
Speaker: And I think that's fairly spooky.
Speaker: I love bonfire night is my favourite.
Speaker: Me too.
Speaker: I love a good sausage and beans.
Speaker: It's such a magical night.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Sausage and beans.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: I know I said that without any reaction.
Speaker: I was like, I expected more.
Speaker: Sausage and beans, that's what everyone has on Monday night.
Speaker: Or is that just me?
Speaker: Is it?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: I thought you would, I thought like the bonfire like food is like treacle toffee or something.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker: Absolutely not.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: You need your wellies on.
Speaker: Sausage and beans.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You need your wellies on, need your best waterproofs, standing in a wet, cold field with a cup of sausage and beans.
Speaker: You guys look really exhausted.
Speaker: A cup?
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: I thought you'd cut.
Speaker: You're just a little bit.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I have to travel to a field.
Speaker: You have to travel to your nearest field, stand and watch the fireworks.
Speaker: You have a hot mug of sausage and beans.
Speaker: Is this not normal?
Speaker: I feel like this is a southern thing.
Speaker: Yeah, I've never heard that in my life.
Speaker: Well, okay, well, I feel very embarrassed now about that.
Speaker: I want to know how they fit the sausage in the cup.
Speaker: You have to just cut them up.
Speaker: Is it like... Oh, it's not just like a whole sausage sticking out of a cup.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: Otherwise that would also be a bit suggestive.
Speaker: In my head it was like the Heinz pins.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: You need proper good sausages that you just cut up and you put into your beans and you eat them with a spoon out of your mug.
Speaker: Where do you put the spoon after it?
Speaker: You carry it with you.
Speaker: See, I'm not fucking about with that.
Speaker: That's where I'd be going.
Speaker: I feel like this is really, this is really put the cat amongst the pigeons here.
Speaker: I'm sorry, everyone.
Speaker: People at home, if you eat sausage and beans, then we want you to email in just with sausage and beans.
Speaker: Just let us know.
Speaker: Like a toffee apple or treacle toffee, but no.
Speaker: A cup of beans and sausage.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've actually got my sausage ready for tonight.
Speaker: Christ.
Speaker: are the people that you're going with also attending with no one well okay well this is the thing this is the thing yesterday was the big night for fireworks obviously everyone out to like Alexander Palace or Batsy Park or whatever um I didn't actually I stayed at home watching the fireworks from my window which was really nice sounds really sad but it's actually a really nice night but because tonight is the night it's like the fit tonight is the night I'm gonna have my sausages and my beans I've already got my sausages in the fridge waiting to go
Speaker: Oh, that's really sweet.
Speaker: But are you going to the fireworks tonight?
Speaker: Well, no, because it's a Sunday night.
Speaker: Who am I going to go with?
Speaker: Everyone's getting ready for work tomorrow.
Speaker: Everyone that has a normal job, they have work to go to.
Speaker: They've got a nine to five.
Speaker: Music
Speaker: Anyway, Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Speaker: So excited to talk about it.
Speaker: So let's delve right in.
Speaker: So just for the purposes of today, we will be talking about the 1975 movie.
Speaker: But as we all know, the movie was based on a stage musical called The Rocky Horror Show.
Speaker: So just a little bit about the musical.
Speaker: It was written by Richard O'Brien, who at the time he was a kind of out of work actor.
Speaker: And he says that he wrote it just as a way to keep busy during the winter.
Speaker: And he had been in a production of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Superstar, directed by an Australian director called Jim Sharman.
Speaker: And he basically showed him a small section of the script of Rocky Horror.
Speaker: And Jim Sharman was like, hey,
Speaker: and on board and he decided to direct it at upstairs at the Royal Court which at the time was kind of like an experimental thesis venue and as the musical began to rehearse it was actually Jim Sharman who suggested that he change the name because Richard O'Brien had called it
Speaker: They came from Denton High.
Speaker: And Jim Sharman was like, I think it should be called the Rocky Horror Show, which is the much better name.
Speaker: But why that name?
Speaker: Is that maybe where they met?
Speaker: Because didn't they meet in a science class or something?
Speaker: Yeah, that's where the characters met.
Speaker: Right, so that might be it.
Speaker: But yeah, much better name, the Rocky Horror Show.
Speaker: The show was kind of like immediately successful.
Speaker: So it moved really quickly from upstairs at the Royal Court, which was just a 60 seater room to Chelsea Classic Cinema.
Speaker: And then it found a permanent home on the 3rd of November 1973.
Speaker: So a couple of months after it opened at King's Road Thieser.
Speaker: And it ran for seven years from 3rd of November 1973 to the 13th of September 1980.
Speaker: And it closed after 2,960 performances.
Speaker: When I was reading that, I was like, why would you not just make it to 3,000 and then close it?
Speaker: But also, that's really interesting that it started at Sloan Square, Chelsea area, because obviously that's where a lot of the punk stuff was going on.
Speaker: So it makes sense.
Speaker: That's really interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, and I kind of just love as well that Richard O'Brien was kind of like a... He was in Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Superstar, which was pretty good.
Speaker: And he'd been in, I think, a couple other shows directed by that Jim Sharman.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I quite like that he just was out of work and he was like, I'm just going to write a really weird musical.
Speaker: It also had transatlantic debuts in New York City and at the Roxy in LA before kind of finally premiering on Broadway in 1975 at the Velasco Theatre.
Speaker: It has since spanned countless productions in countless countries.
Speaker: I was trying to list them all.
Speaker: Basically, every country in the world pretty much has done a Rocky Horror adaption.
Speaker: So it is an international hit.
Speaker: um so kind of back to the film then so jim sharman continued on in his role as director and he helped o'brien adapt the screenplay um the film was shot in the uk and it was split between kind of studio shots at brace studios and location shots at oakley court which was an old country estate so this is quite interesting because the estate had also been used by hammer film productions who were really well known for their kind of like
Speaker: horror b-movie science fiction kind of like b-movies and obviously rocky horror takes a lot of its kind of inspiration from these kind of b-movies these science fiction b-movies that um richard bryan really loved and they reused a lot of the props of the set pieces from the hammer film productions horror films in this in the film i just think that's so sweet wow
Speaker: Actually, to be fair, there's that beginning shot where they both enter the house for the first time and there's loads of like, there's loads of like tic-tac around them.
Speaker: Like there's like a leopard with a snake wrapped around it.
Speaker: I'm like, is that, what is that from?
Speaker: And that must be from like... It's just all from these horror films by this horror film production.
Speaker: Isn't that so funny?
Speaker: And then the costume designer, Sue Blaine, she said that she basically didn't do any research on, this is why it's quite interesting, because the film has got such a style, and it is obviously paying homage to those kind of like pretty bad science fiction B-movies, but she didn't do any research on that, she actually took her inspiration for the kind of costume design.
Speaker: as like the developing kind of punk scene as you were saying like in um in chelsea london at the time so she was using like fishnets and dyed hair and kind of like wild makeup and it has this kind of like brechtian feel like the makeup as well this like really really dark heavy eyeliner these really really dark um lipsticks but i think that's what makes actually quite is quite a visually interesting film because
Speaker: you've got the juxtaposition of like these kind of weird sci-fi props but mixed with like this really like punk rock style because I always think like the um the you know the outfits that the kind of chorus wear like the little top hats and yeah but then they've got those little sci-fi goggles I always find them such an interesting juxtaposition it's so odd yeah this is so eclectic and it really really works
Speaker: So I think it's so interesting that costume designer, her taking that kind of like London feel.
Speaker: Because I do think like you can feel London so infused in that show.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: So the cast for the film, we had Tim Curry as Dr. Frankenfurter.
Speaker: He had played Frankenfurter on the West End and he's kind of since become almost synonymous with the film.
Speaker: I don't think anyone who's seen the film doesn't know about Tim Curry and he's kind of never really escaped that role, but he loves it, which is very, very sweet.
Speaker: Susan Sarandon of course as Janet Weiss love you Susan Sarandon I first fell in love with Susan Sarandon when I watched Rocky Horror and I'm still in love with her now Barry Bostwick as Brad Majors Janet's fiance we have Richard O'Brien as Riff Raff obviously he wrote it as well and he played Riff Raff on the West End Patricia Quinn as Magenta who also originated that role on the West End Little Nell or Nell Campbell as Columbia again she originated that role on the West End
Speaker: Jonathan Adams, who plays the narrator in the film, he also was in the West End version, but he played Dr. Everett Scott, who's kind of Frankenfurter's rival scientist.
Speaker: Then we have Peter Hinwood as Rocky Horror, Meatloaf, of course, as Eddie, and Meatloaf did actually play Eddie on Broadway.
Speaker: Charles Gray is the criminologist, and then we have Hilary Farr as Betty Munro.
Speaker: So the film really interestingly carries over a lot of the kind of strong West End cast over.
Speaker: And I think, again, when you're watching it, you really get the sense of like, these people are very at home in those characters.
Speaker: Because probably by the time, well, it was shot in 1974.
Speaker: So they had been in rehearsals and been playing it for around, what, a year and a half, two years?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So this is like a well rehearsed.
Speaker: It's such a tight group, I think, especially Columbia.
Speaker: Little Nell is Columbia and Magenta and, of course, Tim Curry.
Speaker: I think the three of them, Riff Raff kind of sits outside of that anyway, but the three of them, their chemistry is just so, it's so brilliant.
Speaker: It really just feels like
Speaker: I think in the nicest possible way, it was just a great way of getting a bunch of weirdos together.
Speaker: Everyone is so sort of... A motley crew.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: A motley crew.
Speaker: Especially for the time, everyone kind of sat outside of the norms of...
Speaker: of etiquettes and theatre and everything and I think these performers really wanted to do something that was quite out there and you can really tell that they really enjoyed and kind of put the heart and soul into it and it you can and they've all since gone on to have careers playing quite eclectic characters as well yeah it's like Tim Curry's second most favorite character second most famous character is obviously the clown in it or it oh my god of course oh
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He's also, and I rewatched this movie yesterday and I absolutely love it.
Speaker: And there's so many similarities in it, but there's a movie called Clue, which is, if you haven't seen it, it's basically a film version of the board game Cluedo.
Speaker: Oh my God, I need to see this.
Speaker: It's so...
Speaker: It's so cheesy, but in the best way, it's brilliant.
Speaker: But he plays the butler who kind of like orchestrates the whole thing.
Speaker: And he's so like, it's just, it's very Tim Curry-esque, but then it's set in like an old creepy mansion.
Speaker: Yeah, Clue is actually a really good movie.
Speaker: It's so fun.
Speaker: Like, it's not, I mean, it's not an Oscar winner.
Speaker: No, it's not.
Speaker: And do you know what?
Speaker: I know your hatred for turning movies into musicals, Rosa, but I think that Clue would be an excellent musical.
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: I think it's got the perfect source material.
Speaker: Yeah, 100%.
Speaker: Because it's just so fun and silly.
Speaker: You could have such a wild time with Clue and you could make it so audience interactive as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It would be, you know what, that would be, it's probably been done, but that would be a great fringe show is Clue the musical and it's audience participation.
Speaker: It'd be good like immersive.
Speaker: It'd be good like a good immersive show.
Speaker: If you did it in a big house, that would be a really cool immersive show.
Speaker: Well, originally what they did is there's three different endings to the film and what they did to kind of make people talk about it.
Speaker: Because obviously there was no sort of social media or anything at that time.
Speaker: It was kind of word of mouth that people would talk about films.
Speaker: There was three different endings to the film.
Speaker: And they showed different versions in different theatres.
Speaker: So everyone that kind of went to see it could have seen a different ending.
Speaker: So you'd be talking about it.
Speaker: Oh, I love that.
Speaker: You never see fun things like that anymore.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And I think it's a really fun and silly, silly film.
Speaker: But the three end, I mean, when you watch the film now, it has all three endings sort of laid out for you at the end.
Speaker: You can watch all three.
Speaker: But I just thought that was a really silly little thing.
Speaker: campy thing to do.
Speaker: It's a very goofy move.
Speaker: So the film actually had a really negative reception upon release.
Speaker: So people really didn't like it.
Speaker: They didn't get it.
Speaker: It wasn't really for mainstream American audiences.
Speaker: But where it gained traction, of course, was as a quote unquote midnight movie.
Speaker: So midnight movie is more of an American term.
Speaker: But this is the definition that I got from Wikipedia.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: The term midnight movie is rooted in the practice that emerged in the 1950s of local television stations around the United States airing low budget genre films as late night programming, often with a host delivering ironic asides.
Speaker: So how that kind of translates with Rocky Horror is they were basically shown in kind of like, it was shown in those kind of late night screenings in these kind of dive cinemas.
Speaker: And then part of what kind of helped make it a big hit and gain this kind of cult following was this audience participation.
Speaker: So the audience participation for Rocky Horror is believed to have started at the Waverly Theater in New York City and at the Kings Court Theater in Pittsburgh.
Speaker: in 1976 where audiences who really loved the show and they would come back to watch the different screenings they began to talk back to the screen so there's like this really sweet story of how this kind of originated so there was a teacher who used to go with their kind of teacher pals called Lewis Ferris Jr.
Speaker: and he was normally like a really really quite quiet guy really chilled out apparently he was just so obsessed with this film and it brought out so much into him that upon seeing um janet place the newspaper over her head to protect herself from the rain he yelled out buy an umbrella you cheap bitch and that's apparently how it kind of started
Speaker: Oh my god.
Speaker: So Lewis and the other people in his kind of friendship group, they're kind of known as like the Rocky Horror Pioneers because they basically would go every week and they would try and come up with like little funny quips.
Speaker: to try and make each other laugh during the screening.
Speaker: And then it just quickly caught on with like the other people that were going.
Speaker: And then it kind of began this almost like scripted, because everyone, when you go to a Rocky Horror screening now, everyone knows the exact line to say at the exact point.
Speaker: So they describe it as this kind of counterpoint dialogue.
Speaker: And it has now become like a standard practice of any screening.
Speaker: Like I don't think you can go to any screening and people are not going to be repeating the kind of same lines back at the screen.
Speaker: So this then evolved from the Waverly Theater and the King's Court Theater into what they call shadow casts where fans who would dress up in costume as the characters would stand in front of the screen, mime the actions of the actors on film and then lip sync the lines.
Speaker: And this became like hugely famous and there was like groups of like, you can see the casts actually if you look up on Playbills.
Speaker: for like acting as these shadow cast and it was just people who really loved the films and that Waverly Theatre specifically it was a group of teachers who just were all so obsessed with it that they then became this kind of shadow cast and I think a lot of them then went on to become actors and stuff and this practice is obviously still kind of held today with many theatres mainly in America running these kind of shadow casts so this is what's fascinating
Speaker: Due to the popularity of these shadow casts and the theatre still running the film, it's technically still in limited release.
Speaker: So it's technically from when it was released in 1975, it's never stopped showing in a theatre, in film theatres.
Speaker: So it's still, and you know how they'll be like, oh, limited run.
Speaker: And then it goes to DVD.
Speaker: It's just stayed in a limited release.
Speaker: 48 years.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: after its premiere in 1975.
Speaker: Yeah, I read that it said it was like, I read it said it was the longest running theatrical release in film, but I was like, what does that mean?
Speaker: But now that makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah, it is just absolutely mad.
Speaker: And kind of to do with these shadow casts and people just really resonating with it, I think, because of its kind of quirkiness, its kind of outside-
Speaker: outsider-ness and there's a lot of LGBTQ plus themes but Vera Dika she wrote a book called Recycled Culture in Contemporary Art and Film she describes the kind of like cult following really well and she says that to the fans Rocky Horror is a ritualistic and comparable to a religious event with a compulsive repeated cycle of going home and coming back to see the film each weekend the audience callbacks are similar to responses in a church during mass
Speaker: Which I think is just like a really, really nice way of summing up how reverent people are towards like not only the film, but the ritual of going and dressing up and saying the same lines and things like that.
Speaker: I thought I was going to say, do you guys know what newcomers are called at a Rocky Horror show?
Speaker: Like if you've never seen it before.
Speaker: Virgins.
Speaker: Yeah, they're called virgins.
Speaker: Like that's their nickname, which is just like, that just says it all.
Speaker: That like these people are so obsessed that they're like, anyone knew they're like, you're a virgin.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: When I first, because I watched the film alone and I absolutely loved it and I got my friend into it who was two years younger than me at the time.
Speaker: So I was like 14, he was like 12 and we got really obsessed with this show.
Speaker: And then a year later, we saw that it was running at Halloween and we dressed up fully, went full out, dressed up in all the gear, went into a cinema in Manchester and nobody else was dressed up.
Speaker: And we felt so stupid.
Speaker: We'd brought props and everything.
Speaker: We weren't allowed to use them.
Speaker: And we were like so upset.
Speaker: And then the following year, it then went on tour and we got tickets to go watch it on tour and didn't dress up because we were so embarrassed.
Speaker: Then got to the theatre.
Speaker: And there was these, like, people who go all the time were like, oh, we got some virgins here.
Speaker: We've got some virgins.
Speaker: And I was like, no.
Speaker: Also, weird to be calling 14 and 12-year-olds virgins.
Speaker: I mean, to be fair, this was, like, two years after we had originally watched it.
Speaker: We were, like, 14, 16 at the time.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Yeah, and we were so upset because we literally was all out on it, watched it all the time.
Speaker: And we were so embarrassed that we turned up, not dressed up, but I think we were so embarrassed from turning up to the cinema screening.
Speaker: And then after that, we went again the same week.
Speaker: We went all out.
Speaker: And we actually got our picture taken and was posted on the Time Warp Rocky Horror Fan website.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Let's track down that picture, please.
Speaker: I will try to find that for you guys because it's really quite cute.
Speaker: You should have, when you went to that first screening, no one else was dressed up.
Speaker: I would have loved if you aged 14 and your friend 12 to everyone else being like, looks like we've got a couple of virgins around here.
Speaker: It was so fun because we literally, we were so obsessed and we went all out and we just were so embarrassed.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Just two little queer kids sat in the cinema like... Oh.
Speaker: Oh no.
Speaker: In 2005, it was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress as being culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant.
Speaker: And I would argue that it is definitely all three.
Speaker: So in terms of adaptions then, we obviously have the iconic Glee episode of Rocky Horror.
Speaker: where Emma and Emma sings Touch a Touch Me.
Speaker: I don't think any of us ever got over that.
Speaker: But in 2016, Fox remade what they called a modern reimagining of the film called the Rocky Horror Picture Show Let's Do the Time Warp Again, long title, directed by Kenny Ortega, who directed High School Musical.
Speaker: I don't know how that jump happens.
Speaker: And Hocus Pocus.
Speaker: Sorry, and Hocus Pocus.
Speaker: And, very randomly, Michael Jackson's This Is It tour.
Speaker: So he's got a very varied... An eclectic belt.
Speaker: He's got such a... Yeah, an eclectic belt below ye olde Kenny Ortega.
Speaker: I also saw really unrelated, but I saw an interview with Zac Efron a couple weeks ago.
Speaker: I don't know why I was watching it.
Speaker: I think it just, you know when you're just like scrolling, doom scrolling YouTube or something.
Speaker: And it was Michael Jackson who, Michael Jackson, it was Zac Efron went for dinner with Kenny Ortega after High School Musical 3.
Speaker: And halfway through the dinner, Kenny Ortega was like, someone's calling for you and you really need to take this call.
Speaker: And Zac Efron was like, okay, that's weird, we're having dinner.
Speaker: And he answered the phone and it was just Michael Jackson.
Speaker: Michael Jackson was like, oh, I really love your work.
Speaker: I thought you were great in High School Musical 3.
Speaker: What the hell?
Speaker: It's just so random.
Speaker: It's obviously because Kenny Roteca did the both.
Speaker: But it's so weird that Michael Jackson was like, yeah, Zac Efron's really, really good in High School Musical 3.
Speaker: Also, High School Musical 3 is probably arguably the worst High School Musical out of all of them.
Speaker: absolutely i think he probably meant like your work in general in the franchise but yeah i think the second one is the best oh absolutely literally high school musical 2 is the best like no argument yeah it's iconic sorry but it's gotta go my own way from high school musical 2 gotta go my way yes it is and also actually fun fact i
Speaker: Fun fact, Bet On It from Husky Music 2 has just hit platinum.
Speaker: Thought I'd just let everyone know.
Speaker: That is the best song, actually.
Speaker: It is such a great song.
Speaker: And I have always thought it was a great song because of that amazing scene where he's looking at his mirror reflection in the river and he like splashes it with his hand.
Speaker: He's like clicking away down the river and I'm like, icon.
Speaker: Like that made Zac Efron, that little scene.
Speaker: Add that to your showreel.
Speaker: Like that was fantastic.
Speaker: Fantastic acting.
Speaker: Add that to your show reel along with the really odd camp walk that he does halfway through.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I also love that Zac Efron, his voice was blended with another actor's voice for the first movie because he didn't think his singing was strong enough.
Speaker: And High School Musical 2, he said they didn't blend his voice and he said, I'll show you.
Speaker: And he did.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: He really did.
Speaker: And that's why Michael Jackson phoned him.
Speaker: That is why.
Speaker: So in this 2016 remake then, Lou Sadler, who exec produced the original film, also exec produced the remake, which I think is quite nice.
Speaker: And the cast for the remake included the incredible Laverne Cox as Dr. Frank Inverser, Ryan McCartan as Brad, Victoria Justice, I think we all sing, as Janet,
Speaker: Reeve Carney as Riff Raff, Stasnir as Rocky, Adam Lambert as Eddie, which I will say is pretty good casting, I think, to follow on from Meatloaf.
Speaker: And then my favourite person in the world, Annelie Ashford as Columbia.
Speaker: I am not going to lie, that production
Speaker: I hated it.
Speaker: Oh, it's shocking.
Speaker: It's so bad.
Speaker: It's so bad.
Speaker: I mean, I'm one of those people that always says that when people are like, oh, things don't need to be redone.
Speaker: I'm always like, it's never going to take the place of the original.
Speaker: If you prefer the original, you prefer the original.
Speaker: But I genuinely feel like there isn't much more to do with Rocky Horror.
Speaker: It's very is what it is.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: there's not more they could have like much more they could have added to the 2016 one because I think you should make a remake if there's something more to say on it yeah there's something that's maybe more relevant to this time now or you're going to come at it from a different angle and it's got that something to say I'm just not sure what else there is to say with Rocky Horror that wasn't said with the original musical and movie yeah do you know what I mean yeah
Speaker: And I think they tried to maybe right some wrongs of the original that's maybe of its time.
Speaker: But I just am not sure if it needed to be done.
Speaker: And it was too, there wasn't enough dirt.
Speaker: That's the thing.
Speaker: I thought with the remake was it was very polished.
Speaker: It was very like, here are some amazing musical theatre stars.
Speaker: And they're going to be, and they are incredible.
Speaker: But what's quite charming about the original is that they're kind of rough and ready actors who do can sing.
Speaker: But they're messy and it's gritty.
Speaker: It's gritty, yeah.
Speaker: And I thought the remake was too polished, really.
Speaker: I think as well, in a lot of the... I think in the original Rocky Horror, the cast can sing, but they're not brilliant.
Speaker: I think that kind of adds to it.
Speaker: Like Susan Sarandon self-admittedly said, I cannot sing.
Speaker: So how I got cast in a musical is beyond me.
Speaker: But her voice is so perfect for that.
Speaker: It's perfect, yeah.
Speaker: And also Patricia Quinn, who plays Magenta,
Speaker: can hold a tune but it's sort of this low sort of gruff speak singing almost but it it works perfectly but it like it's not this kind of watch me you know i mean that kind of yeah that kind of happened in the 2016 one so yeah oh yeah it was a bit like but they've all got gorgeous voices
Speaker: And that's why Meatloaf is so perfect in the original, I think, because you're like, oh, because he's playing Eddie and Eddie was like this kind of like sexist star on a motorbike.
Speaker: When Meatloaf comes crashing through, you're like, oh my God, it's Meatloaf.
Speaker: Like he's got this quality and you can see why everyone was obsessed with him.
Speaker: And it's just like this brush of like kind of rock and roll fresh air.
Speaker: Like it's so exciting.
Speaker: But I don't think you can have like, because in that cast list for the 2016 one,
Speaker: They're kind of all of a pretty equal star power.
Speaker: There's no like meatloaf.
Speaker: There's no meatloaf of that cast.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because they're all famous, you know.
Speaker: I think we all sing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm going to take us on to a little bit behind the creative side of the musical.
Speaker: So take us a bit away from the cast.
Speaker: I know we've kind of already touched on it, but the creator of this show, obviously, as we know, is Richard O'Brien, who did the original music, lyrics and book for the 1973 musical.
Speaker: Just a fun fact, because why not?
Speaker: He's British New Zealand because he emigrated to New Zealand, I think in his, I want to say when he was kind of in his early part of his years.
Speaker: And he is an actor, writer, musician, TV presenter.
Speaker: And when I saw that, I was like, oh, TV presenter.
Speaker: So apparently he presented four series of The Crystal Maze on Channel 4, which I had no idea.
Speaker: Which is just so fun.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Did you not know that?
Speaker: No, I had no idea.
Speaker: But then again, I was born in 1998.
Speaker: So I didn't watch... I was born in 1998.
Speaker: Okay, well, I didn't watch the 90s Crystal Maze.
Speaker: But I just didn't realise that he did that.
Speaker: But actually... That used to be my favourite fun fact I used to try.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Like, oh my God, you know the presenter of the Crystal Maze?
Speaker: He wrote Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Speaker: That was like my fact when I was like 15.
Speaker: I used to watch like the old reruns.
Speaker: It was like, it was always on gold, like reruns.
Speaker: Oh my God.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Gold.
Speaker: That's so funny.
Speaker: Well, I think maybe more of like, I think maybe more of something that I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I definitely, I definitely didn't know this was that he was the voice of Lawrence Fletcher in Disney channels, Phineas and Ferb.
Speaker: And Lawrence Fletcher is the dad in Phineas and Ferb.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: See, that was the reaction I was looking for.
Speaker: A little bit more shock.
Speaker: Yeah, so he played the dad in that, which is, again, his Disney Channel roots.
Speaker: Wait, is he the guy that he did Disney Channel or was that someone else?
Speaker: who did High School Musical.
Speaker: Kenny Ortega.
Speaker: That was Kenny Ortega, okay.
Speaker: Who directed the remake.
Speaker: Ignore that.
Speaker: So yeah, so he was the creator.
Speaker: I would love to see a Richard O'Brien directed High School Musical.
Speaker: Yeah, that would be pretty dark and twisted.
Speaker: So that was a bit about Richard O'Brien.
Speaker: Moving on to the actual film adaptation in 1975.
Speaker: So it's produced by a guy called Lou Adler, who actually also was the music producer for Carole King and The Mummas and Papas.
Speaker: itch oh didn't know that that is so guys i love dropping a bomb like i love being like there you go mic drop i love adding in like fun facts that's like you would have never guessed um uh so he produced it along with a guy called michael white who produced west end shows in the 70s including joseph at the amazing technicolor dream coat in 1973 um
Speaker: Two Gentlemen of Verona in 1973 and the Rocky Horror Show and A Chorus Line in 1976, which I just think is interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, I know all that within the 70s.
Speaker: So a really, really strong production side.
Speaker: The screenplay, as we know, was written by Richard O'Brien and a guy called Jim Sharman.
Speaker: And the music, even though the songs were done by Richard O'Brien, the actual music adaptation was by a guy called Richard Hartley.
Speaker: And fun fact, Richard Hartley was originally part of the four piece band for Rocky Horror and then went on to arrange the score for the London stage and film adaptation.
Speaker: So he was just like in the band.
Speaker: And then obviously they were like, this guy's great.
Speaker: Let's get him to do like the actual like adaptation for us.
Speaker: Oh, that's so nice.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Um, yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, that's what I found out about the creators.
Speaker: But you know me, I love a good fun fact.
Speaker: So the same guy that did the music, Richard Hartley, the guy who was just talking about who was in the band, he also did the music for the 1986 Doctor Who story, Mind Warp.
Speaker: which I just think, let's do the mind warp again.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: That's so fun.
Speaker: I know, really, really fun.
Speaker: But actually I was going to say when you were talking about the movie, you know me, I love a good thing with figures.
Speaker: I love to know how much something makes.
Speaker: So within the first week it was released, in 1975, the movie, it only made 21,245 in the opening weekend, which is like nothing.
Speaker: And it was really, really bad.
Speaker: And there was lots of critics who, this is a quote, apparently the movie lacked both charm and dramatic impact.
Speaker: And the movie was tasteless.
Speaker: And apparently the movie was tasteless, plotless and pointless, which I'm like, okay.
Speaker: But then overall, obviously... Sorry for having fun.
Speaker: Yeah, sorry for having fun.
Speaker: But then obviously after the big cult following and the big boom in the movie, so the actual budget for the film that they had was $1.4 million, but the actual box office that they made in total was $226 million.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: So there you go.
Speaker: It did very, very well.
Speaker: That is so funny.
Speaker: Also, what did they say?
Speaker: They said charmless and without dramatic.
Speaker: It said lacking both charm and dramatic impact.
Speaker: Yeah, that's like, sorry, if you, I don't know, reviewed my diary from when I was 14, that's what they said.
Speaker: I would have said about that.
Speaker: Also,
Speaker: Rocky Horror is many things, but plotless is not one of them.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: There's almost too many plots.
Speaker: It is plot full.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Speaking of plot full, I'm going to give you a little breakdown of the plot of Rocky Horror.
Speaker: Now, don't worry if you can't keep up, because I can't, and I've seen it hundreds of times.
Speaker: Okay, so...
Speaker: We start off with our supposed protagonists, Brad and Janet, who are a newly engaged couple and are on their way to see their old high school science teacher, Dr Scott, to celebrate as his class is where the pair first met.
Speaker: On the way, their car breaks down during a storm and they decide to seek refuge in a nearby castle, which...
Speaker: It's a really creepy looking scary castle.
Speaker: It's not a place I would choose to seek refuge, but there we go.
Speaker: We wouldn't have a story.
Speaker: So once inside, Brad and Janet find that not everything is as it seems as the castle is full of party goers, sexual antics, aliens and debauchery led by the castle's master, Dr. Frankenfurter, who has a habit of creating life forms in order to satisfy his own sexual desires.
Speaker: So, after some sexual mishaps and mix-ups, Brad and Janet's relationship is strained until they discover that the whole situation was a planned scheme by an alien, Dr. Frankenfurter, to capture them at the castle in order to lure Dr. Scott to the premises, as he has now been discovered as researching alien life forms.
Speaker: Dr. Frankenfurter's plan is foiled when it is revealed that two of his most loyal servants, Riff Raff and Magenta, are in fact undercover.
Speaker: They then attempt to arrest, but then kill Frank for his sexual crimes and extreme lifestyle before the whole house is beamed back to the planet of Transylvania, leaving Brad and Janet behind in the wake of all the chaos.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's just... And also, like, you've just said that, and I'm like... I'm already thinking, like, God, yeah, but there's, like, a million other things that happens in Rindy Me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so trying to condense that plot so that it was a little bit more, like, followable... Yeah....was really hard, because I've left out some kind of integral moments, but also there are so many subplots...
Speaker: It is too plotful.
Speaker: It's too.
Speaker: To get.
Speaker: It is too plotful.
Speaker: That is the technical term.
Speaker: But there you go.
Speaker: That is a little overview of what the story is about.
Speaker: Okay, so this is the part of the show where we do a little deep dive on the lyrics and music behind some of our favourite songs from the show that we're covering.
Speaker: So I'm so excited today to be able to talk about my favourite song from Rocky Horror Picture Show, which is of course, Science Fiction Double Feature.
Speaker: As we've kind of discussed, Richard O'Brien took so much inspiration when writing Rocky Horror Picture Show from the kind of horror and sci-fi B-movies around during the 70s.
Speaker: And that is so evident throughout Science Fiction Double Feature because it is absolutely packed full of references to kind of bad sci-fi B-movies.
Speaker: Not all of them bad actually, I should say.
Speaker: So what I thought it would be interesting to do today is go through each of the lyrics and just unpick the references because it's so interesting.
Speaker: I love a good pop culture reference and I thought it would maybe be fun to test our listeners as well.
Speaker: So make sure that you're pausing after I read each lyric, writing down an answer and then you get a point if you get the reference right.
Speaker: But definitely do pause and have a go yourselves.
Speaker: Thanks so much to Den of Geek.
Speaker: I'm using their article which is brilliant and it sets out all the different references because I didn't know loads of them either.
Speaker: So let's start then and remember to pause and give your answer.
Speaker: So the song opens with Michael Rennie was ill the day the earth stood still but he told us where we stand.
Speaker: So The Day the Earth Stood Still, of course, is a kind of sci-fi cult classic.
Speaker: It came out in 1951 and it's based on the short story Farewell to the Master by Harry Bates.
Speaker: It was directed by Robert Wise and it starred, of course, Michael Rennie as the alien who, as Den of Geek put it, finds humanity in humanity only to have humans shoot him in the ass on his way back to his planet to say how non-threatening we could become.
Speaker: Oops.
Speaker: Michael Rennie then he was an English actor but he is kind of most famous for The Day the Earth Stood Still and for playing Jean Valjean in the 1952 version of Les Misérables.
Speaker: And Flash Gordon was there in silver underwear.
Speaker: So this is a pretty easy one, I think.
Speaker: Flash Gordon is, of course, a very famous kind of sci-fi comic book, comic book series and TV series.
Speaker: Flash Gordon then, he was actually played by this kind of ex-Olympic swimmer, Larry Buster Crabbe, in the 70s.
Speaker: And then it was also remade in 1980 with Sam J. Jones in the title part.
Speaker: And, very fun fact, Richard O'Brien actually made a cameo appearance in the series.
Speaker: Claude Rains was the Invisible Man.
Speaker: So again, pretty easy one.
Speaker: The Invisible Man, of course, it was just remade a couple of years ago with Elizabeth Moss.
Speaker: Originally, it was a Universal Pictures film that came out in 1933.
Speaker: And it was, of course, based on the very famous sci-fi novel by H.G.
Speaker: Wells, who's kind of like the king of sci-fi.
Speaker: It's basically about this doctor who kind of finds a way to make himself invisible and then, I mean, lots of things happen, but he ends up kind of driving himself mad.
Speaker: And it, of course, stars Claude Rains as the titular Invisible Man.
Speaker: Claude Rains would then go on to be nominated for an Oscar in the film Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
Speaker: And just to bring it all back to musical theatre, he played the Phantom in the 1943 film version of The Phantom of the Opera.
Speaker: Okay then, so finishing off the first verse, then something went wrong for Fay Wray and King Kong, they got caught in a celluloid jam.
Speaker: So this one, I mean I can't believe there'll be anyone out there who doesn't get points for this.
Speaker: King Kong, of course, one of the most iconic, iconic films of all time.
Speaker: So the original King Kong was made by RKO, the production company, in 1933 and it was directed by Marion C. Cooper and Ernest B. Schoedzak and it starred Robert Armstrong as Carl Denham.
Speaker: But of course it also starred the famous Faye Ray as the character Anne Darrow.
Speaker: And this is quite an interesting, nice fact about this.
Speaker: So when she died, which was in 2004, because, of course, that kind of very famous scene with the Empire State Building where King Kong kind of brings her up there with him and she's in that kind of beautiful dress.
Speaker: They actually dimmed the lights on the Empire State Building in New York for 15 minutes, which just out of kind of respect for her.
Speaker: Alright, so then at a deadly pace, it came from outer space.
Speaker: This is a super easy one.
Speaker: It came from outer space as a 1953 kind of sci-fi film.
Speaker: It was produced by Universal Pictures and it was directed by Jack Arnold.
Speaker: And this is how the message ran science fiction double feature.
Speaker: So what they're saying there, double feature is obviously reference with films.
Speaker: So if you go and see a double feature, you've just seen two films back to back.
Speaker: So the next part of the chorus then, Dr. X will build a creature.
Speaker: So Dr. X was a 1932 Warner Brothers films and it was made in Technicolor, which is very, very exciting.
Speaker: There's also kind of a double meaning here.
Speaker: So they're saying Dr. X will build a creature.
Speaker: But of course, we also know that Dr. Frankenfurter, our Dr. Frankenfurter, is building Rocky.
Speaker: So there's kind of like a double meaning there.
Speaker: Anne Francis stars in Forbidden Planet.
Speaker: Again, this is a super easy one.
Speaker: Anne Francis is a very, very famous American actress who, of course, starred in The Forbidden Planet, which is a 1956 film.
Speaker: So fun fact about Anne Francis then, she, of course, starred opposite Barbara Streisand in the movie Funny Girl.
Speaker: She played Georgia James, but a lot of her scenes actually ended up on the cutting room floor because they were so worried that she was going to steal the kind of limelight from Barbara.
Speaker: I mean, I think you've got to be pretty good if you're stealing the limelight from Barbra Streisand.
Speaker: I knew Leo G. Carroll was over a barrel when Tarantula took to the hills.
Speaker: So we'll go through this super quick.
Speaker: I think this is a pretty niche one.
Speaker: Leo G. Carroll was an actor.
Speaker: He began acting after fighting in World War One and he kind of started off his career on Broadway.
Speaker: So he was in a lot of Alfred Hitchcock films.
Speaker: He was really well loved by Alfred Hitchcock.
Speaker: So he actually starred in six of his films, including Spellbound and North by Northwest.
Speaker: Leo G. Carroll, of course, starred in the film Tarantula, which, no surprises here, is essentially just about a massive spider.
Speaker: And that came out in 1955.
Speaker: And I really got hot when I saw Jeanette Scott, which this is a great bit of rhyming, fight a Triffid that spits poisons and kills, which imagine saying that three times fast.
Speaker: So you're probably guessing it by now without even knowing the references.
Speaker: But Jeanette Scott, again, another famous actress who starred in the movie The Day of the Triffids, which came out in 1962.
Speaker: And this is, it's quite an odd sci-fi film.
Speaker: And it's about basically like vegetables who begin to eat humans.
Speaker: The Day of the Triffids, it was directed by Steve Sakely and it starred Howard Keel, who we covered when we talked about Calamity Jane.
Speaker: And my favourite Howard Keel fact is that he basically, the only reason he went into acting was because his neighbour, who was his landlord, I think, overheard him singing in the shower and said, oh, you have such an amazing voice, you need to become an actor.
Speaker: And that's what he did.
Speaker: okay so skipping ahead now to the kind of last chorus we have science fiction double feature dr x will build a creature see androids fighting brad and janet um so of course brad and janet are our two um love interests they're the two human characters who happen upon this kind of gaggle group of uh of aliens
Speaker: Anne Francis stars in Forbidden Planet at the Late Night Double Feature Picture Show.
Speaker: I want to go to the Late Night Double Feature Picture Show by RKO.
Speaker: So a little bit about RKO then.
Speaker: It stands for Radio Keith Orpheum and it is, it basically was one of the big five American film production and distribution companies of the kind of golden age era of Hollywood.
Speaker: And what's quite nice is obviously they're saying they're doing that kind of double feature, science fiction double feature.
Speaker: And as Casey's going to talk about a little bit later, there is actually a sequel to Rocky Horror.
Speaker: And often nowadays, in kind of like a lovely twist of fate, they are often shown together as a double feature.
Speaker: So you watch Rocky Horror, then immediately after you watch Shock Treatment, which is the sequel.
Speaker: I believe it also gets shown quite a bit with Repo the genetic opera the film.
Speaker: So yeah that was a little quiz on all the references of all the science fiction b-movies referenced in science fiction double feature.
Speaker: I hope you were keeping score, I hope you did really well but more importantly I hope you all go and watch some of those amazing sci-fi films.
Speaker: that clearly inspired Richard O'Brien so much and they're paying homage to in the opening number of Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Speaker: Well, one of my favourite songs from the show is actually the song that Janet sings called Touch It, Touch It, Touch Me.
Speaker: Multiple touches.
Speaker: And it's one of my favorites because it's the first one that I was introduced to from the actual musical.
Speaker: I mean, obviously everyone knows the Time Warp, but that I actually got to take on as an actor at drama school.
Speaker: So, and I remember doing all the character work behind it and being like, this is such an odd musical.
Speaker: Like, why do I not know anything about this?
Speaker: But I chose this song because musically it's just very, very interesting.
Speaker: It starts, I mean, here we go, deep dive into the musical world again, what's new?
Speaker: So it starts in A minor, that's the key that it's in, and you can really hear that from the very beginning of the song, there's a very minor tone to the song, and I think they're doing it for dramatic irony, they're doing it to be a woe is me moment.
Speaker: for Janet, just to kind of add like a bit of comedy.
Speaker: And it's almost kind of like the rhythm in the music, it says to be done freely.
Speaker: So it's almost suggesting that Janet as a character
Speaker: is kind of finding her feet through her thoughts and she's taking her moment to be like, I'm gonna take center stage.
Speaker: Like, this is all about me now.
Speaker: There's all this crazy like shit going on around me.
Speaker: This is my time to be like, hang on a minute.
Speaker: Like, I want more.
Speaker: Like, I've just discovered like sex and like, I want more.
Speaker: So then into verse two,
Speaker: it then it takes her into kind of getting a bit more excited.
Speaker: So in verse two, you start to hear a few more of kind of like the drums kind of coming in, for example, and that actually brings the song to tempo.
Speaker: So up until then, it's been very like free, don't really know what the tempo is.
Speaker: And then suddenly with the drums, it's like, bam, we've got a tempo.
Speaker: And it's helping her as a character kind of build the confidence.
Speaker: And you can also hear in the background, one of my favorite things, which I think I've talked about in previous episodes, an ostinato in the piano.
Speaker: And the ostinato is basically a repeated motif or phrase, which, and this, in this particular song, it's in a melodic line.
Speaker: So you hear this like, and you kind of hear that in the background.
Speaker: And that itself helps to that kind of feeling of the rhythm picking up and that kind of push towards getting her to this kind of point of like exploding and like momentum.
Speaker: And then,
Speaker: suddenly you hear this like loud electric, like a loud electric guitar chord that feels like bam, we're in the world of rock and it's like, right, let's get going.
Speaker: And the electric guitar is off the beat.
Speaker: So it's that kind of like juxtaposition of everything else being very to the beat.
Speaker: And then suddenly it's like, but oh, we're into the world of like rock and sex.
Speaker: And then you go straight deep dive into the chorus, which suddenly feels very like lively and upbeat.
Speaker: And the thing that really...
Speaker: that's really interesting from a musical point of view is it sounds very major.
Speaker: So up until now, everything has sounded very like minor, very doom and gloom, really fitting the brief of like a scary horror
Speaker: like science fiction, and then suddenly it's like, yay, we're happy, we're in a major kind of tune.
Speaker: Annoyingly, I couldn't find the actual sheet music for it, but I'm predicting that it might be going into its relative major, which is C. Again, there might be muses at home being like, no, it's not C, but that's all I can think it's probably gone into, because it's definitely not key change.
Speaker: And that kind of shift from minor to major
Speaker: almost kind of suggests that like she finds a real pleasure and happiness in kind of like giving into this creature of the night, which obviously we know is Rocky.
Speaker: But it's kind of her like really enjoying her
Speaker: herself like discovering this like sex and like really enjoying it um and then it then goes back to another minor verse into another major verse so it's very like it's a very straightforward verse chorus structure of the song um interestingly in the second major verse that comes up Columbia and Magenta sing along as well they kind of have like what actually sorry Columbia and Magenta sing
Speaker: her chorus again themselves in their own voice, which kind of suggests that Janet has entered their world and Columbia and Magenta are now in the same world together.
Speaker: um and then and then there's like a final chorus again of touch toucher but then it's taken up a key so it's kind of like suggesting that this momentum is just like built even more and I don't know about the version but I love this for the film version because you really hear Susan like taking a
Speaker: loud like gasps and like almost like she's like grabbing for air it kind of suggests that she's like climaxing and like really like enjoying what's happening in that in that song um and yeah like this is why th is is why I really love this song because it's just like it's a moment where like a character feels like they're they they can't they can't um they can't give in but then they do give in and that's why I just really love this song
Speaker: yeah yeah it's got a perfect end isn't it with that like um that little kind of like yelp she does where it's like oh do do do like it's very very cute yeah like it feels like the opposite like mimicking an orgasm but it's just like a really fun ending it's just a great song from start to finish and it's one of those songs as well i think that wastes no time so it's really it's what like two and a half minutes long maybe yeah it's quite a quick it's quite a quick song
Speaker: And it is, it just wastes not a single second.
Speaker: And it's one of those songs that you're like, you feel like you put it on and you're like, I feel like I just put this on.
Speaker: And already it's not enough.
Speaker: You just want to crave it more and more.
Speaker: again mimicking a bit of an orgasm there I think but it's just like one of those that you're like I've just not had enough of this I need to listen to this song again and Miranda has such a perfect voice for it as well like she has that kind of when like when she starts off she's like I was feeling but she has like that this really tinny voice it's like not a great voice but it's perfect for this role that's like yeah
Speaker: I don't know how to describe it, but it's like a little bit sexy, but it's also just really weird.
Speaker: It's a bit frightening as well.
Speaker: I think it's just such a great voice for that role.
Speaker: It's kind of like that woman who's quite timid and shy, gets a little bit drunk and gets up on karaoke.
Speaker: And everyone's like, yeah, go girl.
Speaker: Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker: No, I was just going to say my favourite bit about that song is Magenta and Columbia, like, watching on.
Speaker: I feel like voyeurism is heavily embedded into this musical.
Speaker: It's all throughout it.
Speaker: Yeah, especially Magenta and Columbia, because in the film they have, like, the, which isn't really in the stage, but they watch from different bits in the musical.
Speaker: but they have like a camera set up don't they it kind of cuts like a CCTV room and they're are they like in their bedroom or something and they're kind of just being little girly pops and they're yeah it's like it's like it's like a sleepover but they're yeah that's it they're like watching Janet have sex
Speaker: But you want to know what else forms a pretty big part of the show?
Speaker: And it's probably why I was so obsessed with it when I was 14.
Speaker: It's bisexuality.
Speaker: Yeah, the show, basically every single person in the show
Speaker: is either bisexual or becomes bisexual just by osmosis being in that house, it feels like.
Speaker: So just in terms of characters, we obviously have Dr. Frankenfurser who is making a man, he's making an ideal man, but he also has Columbia as a lover and he also sleeps with Janet.
Speaker: We have Brad who,
Speaker: definitely has a little moment i think with dr franken first which i don't even think he was expecting um and of course with janet so he has a little bisexual tryst janet i think only sleeps with men yeah in the show but is flirted with by a lot of women yeah because the um she gets undressed i think by magenta and columbia
Speaker: exactly um magenta and columbia just appear to be doing what they want i think i think they are just again it's interesting that actually that's quite an interesting point no women really sleep together as part of the show they do a lot of flirting but no i think it's hinted that
Speaker: the like frank riffraff magenta and columbia all sleep together i think that's sort of a like that's hinted at um especially i think magenta and columbia i think in that in touch touch me yes a bit like a isn't um isn't riffraff
Speaker: Isn't Riff Raff and Magenta brother and sister?
Speaker: Brother and sister.
Speaker: Yeah, but they still slip together.
Speaker: It's heavily implied that they have sex, which is gross.
Speaker: Is it?
Speaker: I don't think I've ever clocked that.
Speaker: There's the whole moment where he's stroking her arm and he's like, my beautiful sister.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: and that and and fun fact i'm pretty sure that the handshake they do do you know where they both like touch fingers and then go up to elbows they do it it's like quite a big thing throughout the whole oh yeah like those yeah i think that's supposed to like mimic a sort of alien sex i think is like because they once they get to the elbow it's
Speaker: kind of a climax i was about to say though i mean i guess that's like a big element of the movie is that like you don't know that they're aliens and like that kind of also adds that thing of someone watching you like aliens are watching us as a human race and it's like the narrator is watching the story and then the aliens are watching what's going on
Speaker: And it's like, it's that weird like inception void where it's just like, there's always someone watching someone else.
Speaker: And I guess that's what makes it creepy and like horror.
Speaker: Yeah, I think like it really makes you question like, okay, well then who's watching me?
Speaker: And then who's watching the aliens?
Speaker: It's just like, it's like this never ending.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then obviously we as the viewer are watching the movie.
Speaker: So it's like, it's like a never ending void.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and then I suppose with the involvement of audiences with the show as well, it's like a whole just feedback loop, isn't it?
Speaker: Of like, the line is so blurred between participant, audience, spectator, like at all times, isn't it?
Speaker: And then I suppose that even goes even further with the floor show in Rose Tint My World, where Dr. Frankenfurter controls...
Speaker: Brad, Janet, Columbia and Rocky and they do this one of the best numbers I think Rose Tempt My World when Brad's Brad really has a moment in Rose Tempt My World where he's like whoa which just makes me laugh so much but yeah that's like a whole other kind of spectatorship thing and then when Dr. Frank Inferno is singing I'm Coming Home and then it almost goes into like a dream sequence doesn't it well you know when they're on the pill
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's like a dream valley.
Speaker: It turns into it, don't dream it, be it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, that always reads to me like a dream valley.
Speaker: Like we're suddenly like, what the flip's going on?
Speaker: Why are we all a pro?
Speaker: But we're just elevated, obviously, out of his fantasy.
Speaker: But yes, I have now just remembered, Casey, that it is, so we do see some lesbian sex.
Speaker: Thank God.
Speaker: Riff Raff goes into Columbia's bedroom and he finds magenta in Columbia having sex.
Speaker: But he does also multiple times is going for magenta now that I've thought about it.
Speaker: Yeah, I thought that was really obvious throughout the whole of it.
Speaker: Because there's the, one of my favourite lines, is where he's stroking her and he's like, my beautiful sister, and then she's like, when shall we return to Transylvania?
Speaker: And cuts him off.
Speaker: And it's like a lover's spat.
Speaker: But then they kind of have that, like, right at the end, they do the kind of, like, finger touch to elbow again.
Speaker: And then that one kind of, like, once they get to the elbow, the house sort of, like, whoo, like, takes off.
Speaker: Like, and I think that's, it's supposed to be, like, a climax that... Oh!
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Maybe I don't like magenta as much as I once did.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: Maybe aliens are into that.
Speaker: Maybe it's A-OK in the Milky Way.
Speaker: Maybe aliens don't have a gender.
Speaker: don't have a gender oh well I yeah I think that's that's probably gonna feed into it somehow like they're obviously taking on human bodies but obviously Rocky Horror is so fluid with its gender expression that's kind of another reason why it resonates so much with LGBTQ plus audiences and it has such cult following obviously it's the depiction of Dr. Frankenfurter as a sweet transvestite from transsexual Transylvania whether those terms are
Speaker: Maybe a correct description of them, not that those were the ones that were used.
Speaker: But yeah, actually, now that you say that, perhaps the reason why, because it wasn't controversial at the time, it was always just, like it didn't get done for...
Speaker: like, lewdness or anything like that that a lot of other maybe films, gay kind of films, would have had at the time.
Speaker: But maybe that is because they're getting to use the... Not excuse, but, like, it's... Well, they're in human bodies and they're aliens, so they exist outside of this realm, and it's so wacky and weird anyway that... Yeah, like, the whole thing was supposed to be so unnaturalistic and, like, far from reality as it could be.
Speaker: Yeah, so the kind of, I suppose, like, right-wing bigots are not picking up on, like, the kind of... There was some...
Speaker: like sort of like there was some protest i mean there's still some now i follow some of the um touring cast and there's still some sort of like religious protests happening um like they stand outside the theater and protest it it's quite funny like anyone's gonna listen outside a rocky horror show that's not the target audience um not the target audience
Speaker: Welcome to Stage Door Secrets, where I'm going to tell you all of the hot goss that happens behind the scenes of our favourite shows.
Speaker: But just keep it between us.
Speaker: So, quite a few.
Speaker: As you can imagine, there is quite a lot of gossip surrounding this show, film, productions, everything.
Speaker: One of the ones that came to mind straight away is that when Tim Curry entered the stage in his Frank and Furt a costume, apparently Meatloaf got up and left and he was going to leave.
Speaker: Like he was not okay with it and was kind of like, I don't want to be associated with this.
Speaker: I don't know what to make of it.
Speaker: Before eventually coming around to it.
Speaker: And then he kind of embraced it, which is nice of him to change his tune.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: Wow, I never... Was this in the Broadway production?
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: Or on set?
Speaker: It was... Well, it was whenever he... Was he in the cast of the West End version?
Speaker: He was in the Broadway version.
Speaker: Oh, the Broadway... Yeah, so it was then.
Speaker: I think it was the first time he met Tim Curry and saw him in the Frank and Furter get-up and he was like, I'm heading out.
Speaker: He was not into that.
Speaker: I mean, that is...
Speaker: I mean, it's obviously not nice, but I am awfully pleased that he changed his mind.
Speaker: Yeah, and then after that, he embraced Rocky Horror wholeheartedly.
Speaker: He was always really into it and with the fans and things like that.
Speaker: But yeah, I think at first, I mean, you know, it can be quite, it was like the 70s and it only just sort of aired into that kind of sexual awakening and like,
Speaker: free love and all that stuff so a lot of people might not have been used to that but yeah so apparently he walked off and wasn't going to come back during the filming of Over at the Frankenstein Place because Barry Bostic and Susan Sarandon were in the rain for so long Susan Sarandon actually caught pneumonia on the set and then had to continue performing and like
Speaker: film the rest of the movie whilst being like extremely poorly I think I did know that Richard O'Brien sold his rights to the Rocky Horror picture show I wasn't sure if it was the I couldn't quite find out whether it was the rights to the name the franchise of itself or whether it was just the film but he sold his rights to it and
Speaker: But maybe because it was a flop when it came out, it bombed in the cinemas before it kind of became a cult classic.
Speaker: So he did sell his rights to it, but he sold it to 20th Century Fox.
Speaker: So all of the money from the film.
Speaker: So you're right.
Speaker: So he probably thought, oh, it's just not going to make money.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, God.
Speaker: And then it made 220 million.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he didn't get a look in.
Speaker: How annoying.
Speaker: I'd be so mad.
Speaker: That's crazy because he sold the rights to the story.
Speaker: Why did he do that?
Speaker: That's all the characters and everything.
Speaker: But he still retains the copyright to the play and the compositions in it.
Speaker: So he's making bank off of the soundtrack.
Speaker: Oh, that's good.
Speaker: Bank off of all of the productions of it, but it's the film.
Speaker: But that is gutting because he... Think how many times that's shown, probably on a weekly basis, at film theaters.
Speaker: Crazy.
Speaker: Apparently... So, during the stage production...
Speaker: Science fiction double feature is sang by the Usherette, which is like this character that's only seen at the beginning and the end of the stage show, which is pretty much every version that is played by the actress who plays Magenta in the show as well.
Speaker: So Patricia Quinn, who had played obviously both Magenta and the Usherette, only agreed to sign on to the film because she really wanted to sing science fiction double feature.
Speaker: Apparently, she filmed it.
Speaker: So the lips, the iconic Rocky Horror lips, they are Patricia Quinn's that are singing at the beginning of the movie.
Speaker: But then I'm not sure whether it was happened before, whether it was discussed before or it happened during post-production.
Speaker: But it was then her voice was replaced with Richard O'Brien's.
Speaker: So apparently she was really quite annoyed about that.
Speaker: That's pretty slack.
Speaker: That is pretty slack.
Speaker: So she got the kind of iconic lips.
Speaker: Whenever you think of Rocky Horror, you think of the lips, but her voice was completely taken away.
Speaker: Yeah, but she wanted to sing it.
Speaker: They knew that.
Speaker: That's pretty slack, I think.
Speaker: Yeah, so Richard O'Brien sang it instead and took over that.
Speaker: Also, a really random fact that I did not know until today, but Princess Diana loved the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Speaker: And I was like...
Speaker: That is crazy.
Speaker: I just can't imagine I sat down like in a palace going, should we put on Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Speaker: I just really thought that was a fun little fact.
Speaker: It also inspired a sequel which...
Speaker: It was a massive flop, but did not kind of gain the cult following that the original movie had.
Speaker: Although diehard Rocky Horror fans really embrace it.
Speaker: It is really fun and really campy.
Speaker: It's set with the same two main characters.
Speaker: So Brad and Janet kind of, this is like five years after the events of what's happened in the first episode.
Speaker: So it was still set in Denton, but Denton has sort of become this TV studio audience.
Speaker: Like the town has become a TV studio.
Speaker: Sort of player into the voyeurism a little bit again, I think.
Speaker: It's kind of a recurring theme.
Speaker: So everything has turned into a TV show and Brown and Janet kind of become like the stars of this TV show.
Speaker: Has Richard O'Brien, Patricia Quinn, Little Nell...
Speaker: are still in this one but they play different characters they all play workers in a hospital that Brad gets admitted to really fun and really campy nothing at all kind of like the first Rocky Horror in terms of plot or anything like that I've never seen that I must admit it's called shock treatment
Speaker: I think I've heard of it, but I've never seen it.
Speaker: The soundtrack is on Spotify.
Speaker: I always give it a cheeky little listen.
Speaker: Some of them are really good.
Speaker: There's a song called Little Black Dress in which Janet transforms into a femme fatale.
Speaker: Whoa, okay.
Speaker: It's two different actors playing Brad and Janet, but they are playing the same characters.
Speaker: as in the first.
Speaker: And, sorry, to confirm, are the... So, Columbia, Regenta, everyone, are they playing the same alien versions of themselves?
Speaker: No, they're playing like... They are playing...
Speaker: sort of erratic doctors and nurses in this sort of... It's basically... It's shock treatment.
Speaker: It's based in a mental institution.
Speaker: That's what it's sort of branded as in the film.
Speaker: So it's a little bit iffy on the plot, but yeah.
Speaker: Got it, yeah.
Speaker: That's what the... It's very strange.
Speaker: It's a hard plot to follow, so it is kind of weird to watch.
Speaker: But it was very early 80s, and it has that sort of early 80s feel about it.
Speaker: It feels completely different to the original Rocky Horror.
Speaker: One last little random fact, that the time warp was only added into the show because they needed to fill it out because the original script was 40 minutes long.
Speaker: So the time warp was added in as a sort of a filler song, and then it became one of the biggest songs.
Speaker: I was about to say, thank God they did.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: But it came one of the biggest songs.
Speaker: You can't go to any sort of party, family gathering, Halloween party without hearing the Time Warp, which I just think is...
Speaker: And my favourite fact that I always tell people is Christopher Biggins is in Rocky Horror.
Speaker: Yeah, he is.
Speaker: He's one of the Transylvanians.
Speaker: He's one of the chorus, yeah.
Speaker: And he's in the line-up when they do the time warp, you know, and he looks like a little penguin.
Speaker: I love trotting that fact out to people.
Speaker: I'm like, well, Christopher Biggins was in Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Speaker: Now this bit is really exciting because we have the chance to do our own fantasy casting using our brand new Mega Mix, Mega Switch casting.
Speaker: This is the part of the show where Rosa will give us a cast from any random show or production and we get the chance to cast Rocky Horror.
Speaker: So without further ado, who are we seeing today?
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So for this casting session, I want you to cast any part you like in the Rocky Horror Picture Show
Speaker: using any actor who's appeared in any season of American Horror Story?
Speaker: I've got a really good one.
Speaker: I think Dennis O'Hare.
Speaker: I think that's his name.
Speaker: Excellent riffraff.
Speaker: Excellent riffraff.
Speaker: Dennis O'Hare, hands down.
Speaker: He would be brilliant.
Speaker: Just because I can't remember which season of American Horror Story it is, where he keeps all the dolls in the attic...
Speaker: It's in Coven and he plays the butler.
Speaker: He's so good.
Speaker: Yes, yeah.
Speaker: And that gives me Riff Raff vibes.
Speaker: Like the, yeah, I think that would be great.
Speaker: Okay, Dennis O'Hare booked and busy as Riff Raff.
Speaker: Flo, who have you got?
Speaker: I would do Evan Peters as Rocky.
Speaker: That's a great shout.
Speaker: Yeah, very good shout.
Speaker: I could imagine him doing the Sword of Damocles really well.
Speaker: Yeah, I just think because also his vibe is very good at being mysterious and you don't really know what his vibe is and I think that's very Rocky.
Speaker: You don't really know what his personality really is.
Speaker: He's kind of void of one almost, isn't he, Rocky?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He knows that he's alive and he's a bit frightened and that's good if it bless him.
Speaker: but with his hair in like the earliest seasons of American Horror Story he's got that sort of blonde curly mop going on hasn't it so I think that'd be oh yeah I could totally see it and actually he kind of does do a bit of a rocky god it's really mirroring in American Horror Story Coven because do you remember the plot line in Coven where he is like killed and then they put him back together and then he's like brought back to life but he's kind of Frankenstein-y and he's a bit confused and
Speaker: So actually, if anything, it really works.
Speaker: What do you think, Rosa?
Speaker: Who would you cast?
Speaker: So I think Frances Conroy, when she was younger, would have been a great Magenta.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think, for my own selfish reasonings, I'd like to see Sarah Paulson as Magenta.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a good shout.
Speaker: But that's because I fancy Sarah Paulson a little bit, I think.
Speaker: but she's very good at doing like creepy quirky yeah I think she'd have that sort of like dark like I'm thinking of Sally in American Horror Story Hotel yeah also oh my god if we're going with that Lady Gaga as Columbia oh my goodness Lady Gaga as Columbia is so good so good that's such good casting she would be brilliant
Speaker: Also, Jessica Lange, or Jessica Lange, I know it's controversial, when she was younger, which I made a beautiful Janet.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Do you know who could be a good Frank-N-Furter?
Speaker: Is it Finn Whitrock?
Speaker: He plays... Yes, he is excellent.
Speaker: He's dandy in... Freak Show?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: he would be an excellent frankenfurter he's great and very creepy oh that would be so good god this cast is shaping up real nice also just on american horror story the reason i picked it for this week is because um you know that clip's been going around from american horror story coven uh where jessica lange or land um wakes up in like her version of hell oh the the axe man and then she's like
Speaker: God, I've got to get out of this place.
Speaker: And then she looks at the wallpaper and she's like, Not a pine!
Speaker: It reeks of cat piss!
Speaker: Not a pine!
Speaker: Oh, she is such an actress, that woman.
Speaker: She is excellent.
Speaker: Well, I think we've got a pretty good cast here.
Speaker: I'm trying to think if we need an Eddie.
Speaker: That's the only person that we need.
Speaker: And then we should have a full...
Speaker: an eddie and a brad oh what's his name the one who's in hotel and he plays like lady gaga's lover um i did matt bulmer matt oh yes um and you know who else i actually think would fit in really well to this um i think he could do a dr fracking preparator is zachary quinto
Speaker: Who's he again?
Speaker: You know who he played Spock in Star Trek?
Speaker: And then in season two, he plays the Leatherface in Asylum.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I feel like a lot of the men in American Horror Story merge into one for me.
Speaker: They all have that sort of blue eyes, black hair, model features.
Speaker: So we needed a Brad, and who else did we need?
Speaker: Eddie.
Speaker: An Eddie.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Am I tripping or is Matthew Morrison in American Horror Story 1984?
Speaker: Yeah, American Horror Story 1984.
Speaker: Oh God, Matthew Morrison, that was Eddie.
Speaker: He would be like, then Eddie said he didn't.
Speaker: He was so like preppy.
Speaker: But when he threatened your life.
Speaker: Oh, he would be a good Brad.
Speaker: Yeah, he would be a good younger Brad, I think.
Speaker: Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker: I think American Horror Story and Rocky, there's like a Venn diagram of casting for Rocky Horror and for American Horror Story.
Speaker: They really overlap.
Speaker: The characters just have such a similar like quirky energy.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, thank you everyone for coming along our time warp journey into Rocky Horror.
Speaker: We have covered the gamut A to Z today.
Speaker: We've discussed bad B-movies.
Speaker: We've discussed Stage Door Secrets.
Speaker: And we figured out that pretty much whoever casts American Horror Story should also be casting for Rocky Horror on Broadway.
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker: And as always, you can find us on social media at Sunday on the Pod.
Speaker: And we would really, really appreciate if you rate and reviewed us, preferably five stars, so we can kind of continue to build our little show,
Speaker: And just like that, we've been What a Guy Makes You Cry Und I Did.
Speaker: Bye!
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