Transcript
Speaker: Dad and mum always really cared about their staff and really cared about their community. And the longer I'm in this industry, the longer I realise that not a great deal matters besides those things.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm James and once again i'm joined by Luke McCarthy who borrowed once again on loan from the full measure. On loan, well I didn't stuff anything up too bad last week. The feedback seems to have been, you know, kept me on.
Speaker: No, no, we filtered out the worst of it, Luke. just I needed you for this week. Just excited. Yeah, yeah. Just like, don't let him see that bit of feedback. No, it's a case of like, because, you know, we recorded this week's a Full Measure Weekly News that's right in another room here just yesterday as well. So it's kind of like, okay, take the spirits hat off. Put the put the beer hat back on. um But yeah, we're here with um yeah another week's Crafty Pint podcast. We'll get to our main guests later in the show. um But yeah, have you been, Luke? Good, good. Yeah, very excited to hear that there's a little bit happening in beer over the last week. And yeah, so a lovely local brewery. I don't know if they told you this, but I have done a bit of work for this brewery back in the day. I pulled up behind the stick once upon a time, but Moondog are off to Geelong. Yes, so they went through rush a few years ago of opening a whole bunch of venues. There was Wild West in Footscray in the former Franco Cozzo building, the Beach House in Frankston, and also Doglins, which is their venue next to Marvel Stadium. They get really sort of switched on for the major events down there. But yeah, had a bit of a pause. But as of this week, they've announced that they're moving into Geelong. I believe it was a bit of a discussion within the team for some time. They've looking at potential venues down there. And they're going to take the Wild West theme from Footscray down to Geelong, into the former Geelong Hotel. Another sizable venue. It's the first time they've moved into an actual sort of
Speaker: ah occupied previously a pub, sort of nightclub kind of thing. So a lot of the approvals and stuff are in place. 900 capacity again. There needs to do a bit of work. I think A, to sort of bring the pub and the nightclub into one, but also to Wild Westify it. And if any sort of, you know, viewers or listeners haven't been to um Moondog Wild West in Footscray,
Speaker: It's spacious venue, but it's built around a mechanical ball, a bucking ball. And they're going to putting a bucking ball into the place in Geelong. So essentially, I think they've got some work to do to get the venue. But the main thing is they need the mechanical ball to arrive from the States. And I don't reckon there's too many venue builds that are waiting on mechanical bull. So hoping to have it open around about the start of summer. Same sort of theme there. And as Brooke there, the director of sales marketing, was saying to me when I had chat about The opening, goes, you know, in terms of what it brings to a venue, having a Buckingham Ball, it sort of really brings everyone together because people sort of move away from being sat in their booths or sat around the table. And as soon as someone gets on there, everyone comes and sits around and becomes sort of a communal thing. So I'm sure it's not going to be turning up in every bar around the city. But it is going to turning up in Geelong. So there you go. That's exciting. And good on Geelong. You know, there's a lot going on Geelong. I was down there a few weeks back in something unrelated for a conference. And yeah, it's beautiful what's happening down there. Some fantastic bars. So all the best to them. I can't wait to get down there. And yeah, so King River Brewing has run into some complications. You want to talk us through that as well? Yeah, as we talk right now, it's sort of pretty fresh. I'm going to having a chat with some people involved in that before this podcast goes out. But yeah, as of Monday, King River Brewing, much loved little operation based in King Valley in the high country has gone into liquidation. I believe some of the people involved in King River Brewing are hopeful coming back at some point with something new and bringing what they describe as what made King River Brewing great back in another form down the line. But obviously it's all very fresh at the minute. It's with liquidators, not a huge amount we can say at this stage. They did close their taproom in King Valley area in the year, but as far as understand that was unrelated. They'd had a, know, summer's the boom time for all those sort of high country, a lot of regional breweries with the bushfires and then with Desi Freeman, you know, hanging out in that region. They just had a really bad summer and they just said it made no sense to actually keep the taproom open. So that was sort of, I don't believe that the two are related.
Speaker: and For those that don't know King River Brewing, they specialize in sort of traditional German and European styles of beer. I mean, I'm assuming that, you know, their Pale Ale is probably their biggest seller. yeah But um so, and they've they just found a lot of fans because they're one of the few breweries doing that and doing it really well. So hopefully the final solution, um as with all these things with administration, liquidation, you know, what can be said is is um It's fairly limited, yeah but also these things do tend to um resolve themselves reasonably quickly, which I'm sure everyone involved will be hoping as well. So um yeah, just best de luck to all involved and hopefully know everyone finds a solution that works for them. Yeah, absolutely. And Will Golgar, have I pronounced that correctly? Well, what we can do is is just call it Whoopi Brewing as well. I did have read of this. Whoopi sounds preferable to me. So talk to us about Whoopi's fifth anniversary. Whoopi Brewing. Yeah, yeah. So um so they they actually turned five a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to Sarah, one of the founders, and Charlie Hodgson, who's the head brewer. He's been there from day one. yeah a lot people in the beer industry will know Charlie, whether they've been to Whoopi Brewing or not. Yeah. was at Gage Rhodes many moons ago. he was the head brewer at Mash. When he was at Mash, he created Copycat IPA, which won Champion Australian Beer a few years ago. He spent some time up at Brewing in Brisbane and then has ended up on the Coffs Coast at Whoopi. Yeah, they turned five and I thought it seemed like a nice time to check in with them for a five years and five beers article. um
Speaker: Probably should run it a couple of weeks ago, but we've had a bit on. But ah Finally, I figure if I talk about it in the podcast intro, I have to get that article live this week. Otherwise, you know, I've sort of... So, um yeah, they just reflected on, know, five beers, but also I had a chat to them about, you know, what it's like being a regional brewery. um You know, their take is that, you know, people are... loving what they do. A lot of events driven, tourism driven, they're bringing people, pulling people down to the region from further afield. um But also they're saying the region as a whole is still getting into craft beer. So, you know, they're saying that, you know, their Buster Hazy IPA they release every year for their an for their birthday goes well. But Charlie was like, but then I'll put up like an Italian pilsner or like a West Coast pilsner. It's just, is it's just crickets. Even though it's effectively just a nice lager. It's just like the stages, you know, of getting people to, you know, what they're into. But it sounds like they're going really well. So um look out for that in the show notes. Fantastic. reckon might be up that way towards the end of the year in coughs. I might have to definitely jump in and and say, you know, check it out. Are you going to visit Husk or what else are you to while you're Who knows, mate? Who knows? But definitely some breweries up that way. That would be ah that would be a treat. Excellent. talk to us about this um new molly ruse well sorry Molly Rose brew. ah This sounds absolutely delicious. yeah Yes, this was something that originally and we were looking to pull together during Pint of Origin in May, like a collab between Molly Rose and Brewery. and Proud Mary who we were partnering with for the festival. In the end it was too much to pull off during the the festival itself but we did have a brew day for our Crafty Cabal Beer Club members a few weeks after the festival finished and the idea was obviously taking sort of um Molly Rose brewing talents, i introduced some filter coffee from Proud Mary And Nick also added some botanicals as well. And so we've ended up with ah an amber ale. We're combining all of those em elements. We open up to the the Cabal members to name the beers. The beer is called Detective Nick Amaro, in reference to Nick Sandery.
Speaker: And so that beer is launched this weekend. And if you were one of the Crafty Cabal members that attended the brew day, brew evening, I think it was, brew night, how do whatever we want to call it, keep an eye on your inbox. You'll get an email reminding you that you'll get a free beer if you head down to Molly Rose and make yourself known. So, yeah, pretty exciting. And I look forward to trying some this weekend as well. Mate, I might be down that way too. I might have to pop in and grab a pot myself. Sounds great. And, oh.
Speaker: and ah Now, Mr. West, Bar Spontana, I've known these folks going a long, long way. Joshy Hodges just makes you smile. He's just someone, as soon as you think of his face, smiles, just appears. So um talk to us about what the plans are moving forward. Yeah, yeah so we got Josh and Jack Robart, one of his business partners in Mr. West um in Footscray in for a chat. good It'd be great to get those guys in for a chat any time. In fact, we spoke to them a day or two after both bars were again in in the booth, the top 50 Victorian bars.
Speaker: um So, you know, that would have been kind of timely. But the main reason we got the minute at the minute was, um as we're talking now, and as if you're listening to this podcast or watching this podcast on the day it goes out, Mr. West is temporarily closed. Jack first mentioned this to me back during Partner of Origin. Actually, they were looking just to change things a bit. The venue's been there nine years. and They feel it, you know,
Speaker: They went for that sort of real sort of industrial chic sort of vibe back in the day. yeah And you know it looks fantastic, but they were like you know they wanted to make something a bit more sort of neighborhood pub sort of vibe. So both upstairs and and the downstairs border shop are closed. They're just basically going to be softening upstairs, bit of a tweak. Nothing... To great, but then downstairs is going to be fairly significantly changed. It's going to be renamed the cave. There'll still be a bottle shop element, but it'll be more of a sort of sit-in bar as well. um So we'll have more news on that when it's ready to open. So I mean, Mr. West itself upstairs should be open and you know very soon. it's ah It's a pretty quick come in.
Speaker: do whatever you do to soften a place maybe a screen screen for the sports that kind of stuff um downstairs will take a little bit longer but nothing too major and and then Bar Spontana anyone that doesn't know it that was a a venue that opened more recently um called Spontane, a reference to the fact that it's all about sort of fermentation. um Thai food that is fantastic. Delicious. Their bottle list is all mixed ferment, wild culture, beers. They've got some amazing pet nap wines on there. We went there for our crafty belated Christmas dinner early this year. And it's just fantastic. I have people saying... recommending somewhere to go around the north of the city and I was like, you should give this a go. Absolutely. And I love it when you're actually making your way around there, even though you know off the main road and you have to walk past a few bins and you're like, have I gone the wrong way again? Then you walk in and it's just like this vibe. Yeah. So anyway, so we had a chat them about venues, about the changing nature of hospitality, about sort of, you know, Jack's background. He worked for number of bars and breweries in the UK when he had a bit of a break from his time in Australia. Josh, obviously, he's part of Melbourne Hospitality Royalty, or as he put it, Nepo, Hospo Nepo, baby. Chris and Penny, his parents were involved like the GB in Richmond and other places as well. And really just sort of talking about, I guess, the evolving nature of hospitality, the challenges of today, but also, guess the golden rules, you know, what always works. And yeah, just plenty of, you know, great insight. Yeah, fantastic. Oh, that's exciting. It's a plenty. to get around and have a listen to that's for sure yeah well I think I noticed a few weeks ago I was chatting to Will and I just like oh we seem to be doing a lot of stories or sort of you know podcasts with people one way or another associated with breweries so it's nice sort of break that up get these guys on you know from a HOSPO venue background we've got some other HOSPO chats coming up soon as well But yeah, I'm sure there's plenty to be enjoyed within that chat. And yeah, if you keep an eye on the website and our socials, we'll let you know when Mr. West is open and when the cave is reopened downstairs. Fantastic. Well, I'll be making my way there as soon as we hear news. Absolutely fantastic. You've got a busy schedule. You're off the Coffs Coast. You're going to Molly Rose. Molly Rose, maybe, maybe. It might be like a spare two hours this weekend. I've got some friends in town. And, you know, if that coincides with in some way being able to go past Molly Rose, of course, and who knows, maybe bit of Bass Montana as well. Probably not, to honest. Not this weekend. Yeah, not this weekend. You're getting at some point.
Speaker: That's great. and wellll it So, yeah, thanks again for your marvellous co-hosting, Luke. Oh, thanks, mate. It was ah yeah such an effort. And, yeah, fingers crossed I can make it back for a couple more. Yeah, well, um on to the main show coming after the break. If you do enjoy the show or have enjoyed any shows in the past, please make sure you like, subscribe, rate or review wherever you get your podcasts. Feel free to send us any feedback at podcast at craftypint.com. Maybe you've got ideas for um guests we can get on the future. And if you'd like to partner with us in any way, perhaps, ah you know, um sponsor a mid-show segment or do any other sort of but partnership with us, we'd love to hear from you. Craig at craftypint.com is your man for that. So anyway, enjoy the show.
Speaker: We'll see you again in a week's time. Cheers. Cheers.
Speaker: Returning this October, Grainstock is a truly unique conference created for the brewing, distilling and baking industries, and you are invited to be part of the experience. Held at the stunning Witten Malthouse in the Riverina, attendees will be able to take part in grain field tours, a technical symposium, trade show, live demonstrations and sensory tastings, networking with growers, maltsters, brewers, distillers, bakers and industry suppliers from across Australia and beyond.
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Speaker: Jack and Josh, welcome to the show. Thanks for having us, Crafty. Not at all. and For you, you know, fairly local to one of your venues at least, Jack, bit of a traipse across town to join us. i got Josh gave me a lift, so it's all good. Perfect. yeah um We're talking in the midst of renovations at Mr. West, which I guess a lot of Crafty Pint listeners will and viewers will know, especially through Pint of Origin. um Do you want to tell us what's happening over there?
Speaker: Yeah, I guess we're breaking it down a little bit. where We want to think of the spaces as two separate identities. So upstairs, we'll still remain as Mr. West, the bar, and then just putting a little bit more energy into the bottle shop downstairs with a a new lease of life, I guess, so to speak. What we're trying to achieve upstairs is just um really leaning into that energy of really comfortable neighborhood bar akin to like a pub, just making it a little bit softer, less industrial, more homely, in evoking a sense of nostalgia. And then downstairs, we're going to have a small food offering and offer on-premise style ah drinking as well as off-premise a little bit more elevated than we've done it in the past. Well, I think if people hadn't been to Mr. Weston, they should have been in the past. I mean, i remember when it opened going in the first time, like the vision you had for that space, especially upstairs, you talk about being industrial, but it was the sort of bar that, you know, could have you could have found it in Manhattan or London, Paris, you know opened in Footscray Mall. And, know, it sort of really stood out that way. You know, do you feel that, you know, the need to change has become just changing tastes or, you know, if it why the need for you need to soften it? Well,
Speaker: That's very nice of you to say. but i'm sure I'm sure I've put it in writing before. I was just like, wow, like, you know, you you are, it's like transport, you know, transportative when you'd come off the streets and go upstairs, you're like, it's you're in a completely different world. Yeah, I think that we've we're turning... Well, we've turned nine. yeah We're nine years old. And I think we just felt that the space needed a a little freshen up. We're not doing anything structurally enormous. We just want to give the the venue the the love ah that it deserves, I guess. um Some of the... Things that we found aesthetically pleasing in the past, like very industrial style is something we don't feel as comfortable in anymore. And our our goal is to create a space that's really comfortable for people and can be a community venue, a neighborhood bar. And our feelings is that that industrial style is a little bit alienating. We just want it to be more more comfortable. And what does that mean, sort of practically, what what is more pub like? I mean, we there's not going to be a pokies room around the corner like that. What does it what does it mean, um you know, in terms of what...
Speaker: returning visitors will will find this time or in in in a week or two's time. I think that we're you know just kind of looking at the concrete walls and and softening up that and changing the light fittings. you know We've got these old bunker lights that we just you know don't feel like really resonate with us anymore. It's just little things like that. like If you actually look at the space, we feel, I mean, we're there every day. so I think we're probably a little bit more in our heads and it with it than other people. yeah You either notice something all the time you just don't notice it at all once you're there all the time. But I guess once you do start noticing and talking about it you probably can't see anything else. Yeah, and it just, for us, I think it kind of feels like a bar that opened up in 2017, which I think, you know, I still really love the space. We we still really love the space.
Speaker: um But, you know, just kind of... modernizing, but also like trying to take it away from that feeling of being of a time and place, you know, kind of making it nostalgic, but also classic so that we can, you know, like ah we don't we don't want to do these Renaults and then nine years from now, turn around and look at it and go, this feels like a bar that opened up in 2026. Something a bit more timeless. And I mean, will there be some changes to the offering as well? like you know I guess specifically for this you know podcast on the on the beer front, will things be changing there? Or you know is that is that vision about being about great booze going to stay at the heart of things? Yeah, our commitment to independent booze is still going to live in full force at Mr. West and really championing independent independent beer as well. I think it's just about the the way that it gets conveyed from the style of service to the glass, to the the fabric on the booths, to the, as Jack was saying, the the texture of the walls, all of those things. We just want it to feel like more of a complete and and thought through experience. yeah yeah and you did mention that might be a reduction in taps is that right if you feel that in 2026 you don't need 26 taps or however many it is you've had we had 30 taps 30 times we had 30 taps which included wine on tap and cocktails on tap um we six taps that we had at the front of the bar was actually put in um after open so i think it was just after the first covert lockdown
Speaker: Yeah. twenty twenty surely people are goingnna be thirsty now yeah but um you know that was and that was at the time it was we had the we had the demand for it and all that kind of stuff and we wanted to put one on tap without reducing our beer offering but the way that it was put in kind of created a barrier between us and the guests you know it's this this big kind of um like font that comes up ah but above the bar.
Speaker: And it's not just about reducing the taps. It was also about taking away the obstacles between us and the guests. So it's also about making sure that we don't have anything in between us and the guests we want to kind of communicate with and interact with. But, you know, in terms of 30 taps is still a lot. We've got 24 taps still. yeah We've got three wines on tap. We've got two cocktails on tap still, and we have a cider on tap. So that leaves us with 18 beers. Yeah. So... you can You can do a lot with 18 beers. And I remember years and years ago, i think even at the absolute sort of peak of craft beers explosion, um think Steve at the tap house was like, oh, you know, we've got the 20 taps upstairs and 20 downstairs. we're We're not going to replicate them anymore. We're going to go 40 different beers. And then I think within a couple of weeks, even at that time, he went, actually,
Speaker: We don't need to have 40 different beers on tap. 20 is fine. I'm sure 18 is going to satisfy anyone except the most like annoying person coming into your venue. to To be honest, if it wasn't an obstacle or a barrier for us and our guests, it wouldn't have been something that we would have been speaking about reducing. But I think what Jack and I have been talking about... at length is that experience is what defines mr. West more than the amount of beers that we have on tap or the types of beers that we have we pride ourselves on being a venue that puts the guest experience and service first so to have this massive font as an obstacle between you and me is almost like a barrier that prevents us from doing what we pride ourselves on doing really well so Yeah, had they all been on the back wall, it wouldn't have been something that we fair enough we decided. it's not It's not so much to do with the beer itself, but more just that we really do value service and we really value our regulars and our guests.
Speaker: And it just felt like an obstacle for us to be able to do what we want to be doing. And and how did you go about it once you'd sort of made the decision that something, or something, some things had to change? How did you go about it when you've got, you know, a venue already set out like it is? You don't want to go back to, you know, the bare shell like you had before and rebuild it all. So, you know, how do you go about that? Okay, we have this very distinct thing in place, but we want it to change. Like, it would be a very different process, for example, from when you and Caleb first went into that, you know, what was there before and went, okay, here's our grand vision. Yeah. I think, as Jack said, when when you're working in the space so often, there's things that you you notice are things that you don't like. and's And as you said, there's things that you probably just don't even notice are there anymore. But the things that we were noticing that we weren't liking were just becoming like a blister and becoming more and more apparent. And it just all comes back to the idea of
Speaker: creating a space that feels comfortable, creating a space in which we can engage with community. And if people are feeling less comfortable being in a space that's a little bit too cold or a little bit too industrial, like how can we create that sense of warmth and nostalgia? Because what we want to be creating isn't just...
Speaker: A beer venue, it's a venue that everyone can enjoy. And that's what we set out to do from the outset, which I think was the most ambitious and maybe naive part of what we were trying to do is that we were trying to check all the boxes because we found that a lot of beer venues that we would go to at the time, you couldn't get a decent glass of wine. A lot of wine bars you got to had six different types of lagers, no IPAs, no stouts or no diversity in beers. And then cocktail bars.
Speaker: Don't get me started. you a wine offering in a cocktail bars So we tried to we tried to do something that was really product focused because that's what we believed in. But over time, what we've realized is that what we want to be, what we're striving to be is closer to a pub than it is to a fancy, myopically focused venue. We want to be a place that people consider their like local watering hole. We want to be that place, that ah pinpoint of the community. And if there's barriers or if there's discomfort or if there's any agitation, we're not really doing our job. It doesn't matter if we have the best beers from all around the world on tap. If we're not making people feel comfortable in our space, then we're not we're not doing what we set out to do. it's interesting. I think, you know, um I've said this before, probably really, you know,
Speaker: but Years ago as well, I'd imagine that, you know, i at the time when there were more sort of pointy end beer venues coming open, it's like, you know what? There's only so much room for anything that's pointy in any sort of background, I reckon. And if you look in the world of like, you know, socialising and boozing, inns and taverns of one or another have been around for like over a thousand years and essentially... you feel like they' that sort of more holistic pub feel offering is just something that obviously works on an innate you know DNA level with with humans. So um I can you know understand why we're going that way. You mean you mentioned with the bottle shop as well. so you're going to retain bottle shop element, yeah? But just what' sort of yeah what's happening? It sounds like a bit more is happening downstairs than upstairs in terms of the change. Yeah, I think...
Speaker: I think we're really inspired by venues like um Public Wine Shop in Fitzroy and what Nagesh is doing at Bois in North Melbourne that have followed that P. Franco style model from London in which the bottle shop is more than just a retail outlet but a place that you can engage with to drink in as well. So what we want to try and do downstairs is create a space that... People can come from ah for a beer or wine to take away. That's all staying the same. But if they want to have a martini on the way in or a little snack, that that can be facilitated. It's not as simple as transactional, which kind of goes back to that concept of us
Speaker: just engaging with community and being and being more of a of a space that people can, you know, just giving giving people more reasons to to be in the space and being part of the broader community. So there'll be a separate bar put in downstairs? or Yeah, yeah some some semblance of. I don't think it'll be as sophisticated as what we have at Bass Montana or upstairs at Mr West, but... Definitely more comfortable seating and more areas for people to to engage with the space as an on-premise space as as well as an off-premise space. is it still Mr. West downstairs as well or are you going to have a second venue name? What's the what's the plan?
Speaker: The idea is... I feel like I'm hogging the microphone. Jackson. Yeah, yeah. You go. We're going to call it... It's going to be called The Cave downstairs. So um as far as our liquor license is concerned, the whole venue will still be Mr. West. um We spoke at length about changing the name and we sway on and off about whether we keep it or or not. But I think that the the brand itself has done so much over the years and what we've been able to achieve in that space, not just in within craft beer, but within the hospitality industry is something that we're really proud of. And then when we talk about our community coming back to being that venue that's there for the community,
Speaker: Being there for 10 years is something that we really, that's that's a milestone we want to hit and we don't get the opportunity to hit that if we change the name. Very true. However, downstairs in the bottle shop, the idea is that that space will be called ah The Cave and will be referred to as The Cave at Mr West, I guess, as far as liquor licensing's concerns. It doesn't hurt to have a new name to hang something on as well for exact publicity reasons. Oh, a new venue in the West. Exactly. um itll it was we We're putting a lot of effort into how the shop is
Speaker: the user experience of the shop. That's the main the main focus of our our renovations. Upstairs is just about softening it and making it feel more comfortable, but it's just changing the functionality of how the shop works is what we wanna focus this next chapter on. yeah And you mentioned Bar Spontana before, and just recently, both Mr. West and Bar Spontana featured in the Boothby Best 50 Bars in Victoria again, so congratulations on that. But but for those that don't know, Bar Spontana, this was your second venue that you opened three or four years ago now is it more yeah we we opened as a pop-up uh three years ago just to familiarize ourselves with the space we weren't looking to start a second hospitality venue we actually have a a rotary evaporator and a big part of what we were trying to achieve was just to find a small warehouse where we can tinker with distillates and interesting flavors that we can then put into our cocktails at mr west but
Speaker: When searching for a warehouse, we found this warehouse space in Brunswick that we became quite enamored with. And wasn't there before because you've sort of made a space where there wasn't work, hadn't worked before. It was it was a cafe called Theodore's before, which is a really cute neighborhood cafe. And they had some issues around COVID. And then prior to that, it was a casual fine dining restaurant called Host, which was awesome, but probably just a bit of a bit ahead of its time. Yeah. Before that, it was a fishmonger. And if you walk past it, there's still the refrigeration unit on the roof from when it was a fishmonger and the floors are slanted downwards so you could mop the yeah all the bits out the front door. It's a really quirky space. um
Speaker: But yeah, what we've set out to do there is kind of just refine our product, what we love about product at Mr. West and kind of close the gap and zone in on what we really are passionate about, which is a sense of place, which is reflected through. wild fermentation so mixed ferment beers natural wines um wild fermented spirits like rums and mezcals that takes the forefront and then the kitchen and the food is very much delicious delicious thank you ah Thai food yeah which has so many layers of preservation fermentation just through like the necessity of not having you know refrigeration and a cuisine that's had to to develop it's a really it's a really fun venue to work in and we just focus around that whole lens of spontaneous fermentation and beyond it sort of um not being a pop-up by any means anymore is it sort of the three years on as you sort of envisioned it would be or is that something that sort of evolved over time as well
Speaker: I don't i i don't think i think anyone's completely naive if they think that they can forecast what a hospitality business is going to be when it started. But what I'm really proud of at Bar Spontana is that we have been able to stick to our vision and do what we believe in, which is showcase... spontaneous fermentation and natural fermentation in a way that's accessible and not necessarily pretentious. Oh, it's a very fun venue. like There's such a buzz when you go in. like It feels like filled like a bar, even though you know you can sit down and have this you know exquisite you know multi-course Thai feast as well. so And I think the thing is we're not trying to force a concept differently. down people's throats. It's like the the drinks are delicious, the food's delicious, or by the way, we're also enamored by the concept of spontaneous fermentation. yeah But if you don't have to know that to enjoy what we offer. I'd imagine not too many people would, would they? They'd just come in and go, i had a great time. Yeah. We can leave the ah the educational aspect for another time. Yeah, absolutely. And what about, so know beyond that, yeah i guess actually with Bar Spontane, you mentioned like, you know, the mixed ferment beer, that's been a challenging space as well as as hospitality in in recent years. You know, has that within the beer offering, has that remained sort of substantial part of Bar Spontane or do you find a lot of people coming in for beer just like, I'll just have a lager on tap or a pale ale, like, you know, does that work? Yeah, our entire bottle list is wild ferment or mixed ferment. So focusing on canty ons and we've still got some bottles of dollar bill kicking around and wildflower as well. But the the focus is definitely on wild fermentation, but we do have people just come in and have a house lager or something like that.
Speaker: I think the the romance is what we really believe in with wild fermentation. I think it tells a really beautiful story and has a really beautiful sense in place and that's just something that we believe in. Yeah, I think I've said in the past, that you know, sort of um in terms of litres produced of those sort of beers and column inches written, that it must be the greatest disparity of any drink star in the world. Mixed ferment beer, know, people write these, you know, as we have, you know, reams and and reams of words about, you know, the the beauty of this the process that they're involved and and the yeah the beautiful places that happen and, the you know, the complex beers you get and actually people are just making the tiniest amounts of these things. But I think at the end of the day, like it's our job to like, we're creating a bar to be hospitable and to make guests feel comfortable. And we just don't want to alienate people. So it kind of comes back to that thing that we were talking about at Mr. West about creating a comfortable space. What we're trying to do at Spontana is yes, we believe in wild ferment products, but that doesn't mean that everything has to be crazy and loopy and out there and wild. So yes, of course, come in and have a pint of Keeper Pilsner.
Speaker: Which is still delicious. If you're interested in trying something that has this interesting technique that we believe in and really sparks our curiosity and passion, then let's talk more about that as well. Yeah, yeah. And any plans for any more venues beyond what you have already? Yeah, I think we just need to focus on what we're doing at the moment. Yeah, yeah. Let's get the cave open and pumping. Definitely not off the table for future. But yeah, I think we're just pretty honed in on...
Speaker: what we're doing at the moment just need to get that done before we even think about that because i feel like we both have mental breakdowns if we start bringing other stuff in at the moment fair enough well we don't want that because because of the way that the hospitality landscape is in we had to have some pretty serious conversations about mr west and the future of what we're doing and if it's actually something that we want to continue to do and at the end of the day we came down to the the decision that we really believe in what we're doing at Mr. West. And we, we think that the industry is, ah in a tricky time, but we really want to continue just being a venue that can provide to our community. And we've in turn signed like a 19 year lease. So we're like now we're now in for the long run. Yeah. um
Speaker: But as Jack said, we really need to just double down and focus on getting that right before we talking about things. So everyone that's listening, if you're in with within a hitting distance of Footscray, soon as this place is open, get down there. Yeah. yeah flop flop Flock to Mr. West and the cave. i Cool. We'll take a short break now. I'd love to come back and chat a bit more about yourselves, your personal careers in beer at and I guess that the wider hospital landscape. Beautiful. Thank you.
Speaker: Cool.
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Speaker: That's pacpal.com.au forward slash sample. Welcome back. um Now, I think you know we sort of started with the now, and I'd like to of go and do a bit of then and get a bit of background sort on on the two of you and your and careers in HOSPO. Maybe we start with yourself, Jack. I know you spent some time overseas um before joining mr West. So do want to tell us a bit about how you, I guess, HOSPO craft beer, your tie in there? Sure. Yeah, I mean, i think that... ah I kind of always wanted to be a bartender from the age of like 16. I really liked the idea of that and just kind of being in the service industry, probably not in terms of the hospitality, but more about um just being part of a culture. And I guess as a 16, 17 year old, i really kind of identified with what I felt being a bartender represented. So yeah, Um, kind of as soon as I turned 18, I started applying for jobs everywhere and got knocked back everywhere. Cause I had no experience of course. Um, and then instead started working at first choice liquor, um, which at the time there was a little bit of kind of beer coming in and out of there. Um,
Speaker: but not heaps. And my manager at the time, I think, saw me interested in that and, you know, kind of gave me a little bit of free reign kind of organize the shelves that had the, you know, international, you know, international craft beer, which was like, you know, bottles of pale ale and hop hog when that first came out and that kind of stuff. And um yeah, I guess my interest in it came there. I started working at the Woodlands Hotel after that up in on Sydney Road. In Hayden's era?
Speaker: In Hayden's era. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um So I was working at First Choice Liquor and yeah the Woodlands Hotel. um and Watching giant wooden statues be brought in and thrones various other things. They were already up there when I got there. Yeah. um And yeah, I was working both those places while I saved up to move overseas. I was studying at the time, but I was doing an arts degree major in philosophy, minor and cinema studies. So just absolutely useless, but kind of just felt like I had to do something after high school. And then, yeah, um i ended up moving to the UK. I landed in
Speaker: ah London after traveling around a bit and started working at Brewdog. So I was part of the opening crew for Brewdog Shepherd's Bush, which was the seventh Brewdog bar at the time. So still pretty like, you know, early era, you know, real kind of like Insular culture, kind of like, you know if you're part of the Brewdog team, it's like, you know, you're cool. It's crazy to think that the venue, the seventh venue was like the early days. Yeah, yeah. yeah I mean, it's ah's a long story that, yeah, and that's probably another podcast, but yeah. um ah But yeah, I was there for two years in London. And then my partner at the time, she was AVM at Brewdog Clapham Junction. We were working at Brewdog Shepherds Bush together. The venue manager there was actually Noxy, who has Miss Moses. um
Speaker: She got promoted to... uh venue manager in bristol and so we moved down there um and i was in bristol for two years uh working for left-handed giant the brewery um and then also at their brewery small uh sorry their bar small bar uh down on king street there um and yeah i mean that was a really great time for me they those guys um were very um kind of eager to develop and you know kind of like nurtured me a little bit and not even like hands on kind of thing, but just gave said, you know I wanted to do something, he just said, do it. And they were one of the you know this the newer breweries that were at the forefront of really pushing craft beer in the UK forward. Yeah, yeah. They put me through my certified Cicerone as well. um So I sat that and yeah, I did a lot of events with them. um When I left, ah moving back to Australia, I just couldn't handle winters it winters anymore. um And then kind of had sent out my resumes to a few places, but ended up at Bidelux. They were the first ones to call me back.
Speaker: um And yeah, I was there for two years. And the starting team was great. You know, I met my my wife working there. um You know, really great, really great team there. um But as is the way with AVC venues. The beer selection. and Yeah, they they never really wanted that place for for the Beardalox brand. They just wanted it for the Fed Square site. um And, you know, I don't think...
Speaker: They're not the most ah employee focused employer. But yeah, my cousin was working at Mr. West, which has just opened. And I stopped in one day to see him. And I've been- Never left. Yeah, well, I've been looking for a job. I've been putting out my resumes in a few places, just kind of looking to to step away from that city venue kind of vibe. And then, yeah, Josh was behind the bar one day and said, oh, heard you might be looking for a job. Why don't you send your resume in? And then the rest is history. So, yeah Would have been in perfect fit as well, you know, with you guys at that time, not just celebrating independent and local Australian beer, but looking to bring stuff in from overseas to have someone like Jack with, I guess, insider knowledge of ah another beer culture as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I think even before he had the job, every time Jack would come into Mr. West, he would ask questions like,
Speaker: Oh, have you ever considered having more Dunkels and Schwarz beers and more of these like all the styles of beers represented on your tap lists? And at the time we were very much leaning into to trends of big hazy IPAs and fruited sours. And I think among many things, one of the things that Jacks brought to the venue is just that kind of holistic approach to beer, championing beer.
Speaker: throughout its history and not just what's in in in trend at the moment and something really valuable that Jack does beyond his elite knowledge is just, you know, representing beer from each each part of history, I guess. And are you pretty much, you know, resident at Bar Spontana these days then?
Speaker: Yeah, we've got a really good team at Bass Pontana and my plan is to be spending more time in Footscray with these changes, um especially with what's going on in the cave. Jack's jack's got a, jacks we've got an awesome team in Mr. West as well. But with these new changes, I just want to get my hands dirty and back into Footscray and doing really exciting, exciting things. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm still working a a lot of service and I can't i can't really shake that. You can't shake it because you don't want to? or Well, that's the question, isn't it? I think maybe there's an ah there's an addictive element to it where I love being on service and I love working with people and I love both with the teams and and and guests as well. i think that's something that's highly addictive.
Speaker: for me. Right, so I talked about you know sort of pub and venue, i mean and a human dna DNA and loving pubs. In terms of ah Josh Hodges' DNA, you are sort of part of... Hospo Nepo Baby. Hospo Nepo Baby, or I was going to Hospo Royalty in in Melbourne, you know ah pubs that were the first to stock you a Little Creatures Pale in Melbourne, first to poor mountain goat high tail back in the day. So do want to tell us a bit about bit about the the generational Hodges legacy in Melbourne Hospo. Yeah, so mum and dad used to have the Great Britain Hotel, which, as you mentioned, was one of the first pubs to have creatures and goats and hop-hog on tap. Craft beer was always a really big part of their... DNA.
Speaker: Um, and I got into bartending, um I guess as a way of rebelling against my parents, cause they were sort of like, whatever you do, don't get into hospitality. Uh, and i was like, I'll do whatever I want. And then got really involved in, uh,
Speaker: cocktail cocktail bartending and enamored by spirits and and making drinks and the lifestyle that comes with that as a young 20 year old bartender having a lot of hedonistic fun um and i got uh into a ah conversation with someone who then became my mentor later on after a couple of beers and a couple of mezcals uh He offered me a job as a sales rep for a brewery and I thought, well, I've got nothing to lose. I'll i'll give it a turn.
Speaker: And that was that was Feral and I looked after Victorian sales for Feral for I think almost three years ah before putting that down and deciding that I love beers and cocktails and wine and maybe that's what I should do is open a venue that celebrates all of them and that became Mr. West. Yeah. And you and did you have any yeah other than don't do it was there and any sort of key bits of advice from you know Chris or Penny as you set off on under your own steam?
Speaker: When Caleb and I took over mr West I remember the feedback from dad was more, this is too hard. Don't do it. Not only don't go into this industry, but don't do that. This is the wrong, this is the wrong space. This is too much effort. And, um, because by that stage he'd have, or they'd have run a number of different venues as well. Obviously always with, you know, good booze at the heart of it and hospitality, but different size, different parts of the city. So he had a pretty broad. Yeah. They set up Edie's in, in East Brunswick, which is still going today. I was actually there on the weekend. It's, absolutely pumping. It's an awesome venue. And then post GB, they had the cherry tree, um which has recently been renovated. um
Speaker: But yeah, i think I think it was interesting because the way that... dad ran venues is probably closer to the way that we're trying to run them now.
Speaker: When we first, was right all along. He was right all along. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah, both, both mom and dad have such like a human approach to running venues and how they treat their staff and what community and guests mean. And when Caleb and I opened Mr. West, we, we were young and naive and just wanted to do things like we wanted to have the best beers and the best selection of wine and do the best cocktails and, It was all very product-focused and perhaps ego-driven.
Speaker: But I think, yeah, Dad dad and Mum always really cared about their staff and really cared about their community. And the longer I'm in this industry, the longer I realise that not a great deal matters besides those things. It's the experience, isn't it, really, that you create? And I think that's something we've seen happen with breweries and beer venues more generally in the in the last probably at least half decade is that you know it's kind of of It's not just good enough to have the good product or the cool brand or whatever. People want something you know tangible and suddenly something they can feel when they go out to a place as well. Yeah, i think i think you're right. And Jack said something when we were driving here is that people want to see themselves in the glass. And I'll let you touch on that a little bit more. But I just think it's really poignant that the the stories...
Speaker: that people put into these products like beers and wines and and and spirits. these These people are, I guess, creating ah creating a a sense of place and a sense of something, ah a brand that people see themselves in and really believe in. But it's the it's the human element of that storytelling that I think is most inspiring. And it's not as simple as just, you know,
Speaker: the people you deal with every day but your suppliers and everyone involved there's so many so many humans in the whole in the whole picture and i think that's that's what it's about at the end of the day is about connections and community and and people so how do you make people see themselves in the glass then jack i think when we were talking about that we were talking about um what's working in the beer industry nowadays and and um what kind of people identify with uh and What I'm seeing anyway is is people are kind of connecting more with breweries that really position themselves as as ah as a space and and um you know kind of identify with their place. So I use Love Shack as a really good example of that and that's our house pale at the moment and and we have their meaty red pouring all the time as well. But when people come in and they see that on tap, they're like, oh, Castlemaine, cool. They're like, oh, I'm from there. I'm from near there, you know. And so they kind of like, there's something about it that they like being able to tell you that they are they have a connection with that brewery.
Speaker: And so when I say see themselves in the glass, it's like, you know, you don't quite have, except for wild ales, which, you know, is made with the indigenous yeasts and that kind of stuff. You know, beer, you can...
Speaker: create a London style porter by changing the water chemistry before you brew. So in terms of the tewa and and all that kind of stuff, when we talk about beer, it's often, it's a cultural tewa. And so, you know, in terms of that sense of place, it comes from the stories that go along with it. So I think when I said that, I was just, you know, in terms of what people connect with, it's,
Speaker: connecting with the idea of a place. you know Hop Nation does really well for us because they're a footscray brewery and they've they've really put their flag in the soil as being a footscray brewery. you know And thankfully still kind of tucked out the way enough that they're not really sort of you know competitors. No, but we can get a cake from them on the weekend if we run out. so you know But yeah, in terms of what people I see connecting with nowadays is is not so much about chasing hype products. it's It's about connecting with the story of the place that goes alongside that product. And, you know, when when we pour beers as well, it's like, yeah, when we when we talk about what we sell, we don't really talk about craft beer. We talk about independence.
Speaker: um And I think that's a really important thing for me is that we do talk about independence because, you know, in terms of our core taps that we pour, we got Meiselweiss Original and that pours all the time. And, you know, these breweries have been making beer for a long time before the craft beer revolution. Yeah. But when people see that and they see, you know, we have Schlenkerler or DuPont or, you know, Meiselweiss on tap and we have that constantly, they can go and they can look and they want to tell you about the time that they actually went to the brewery or the time that they were in Europe kind of traveling around drinking it then, you know. And so there's this kind of like romantic kind of connection with with that. And that's, yeah, they see themselves in the glass and they they can kind of emotionally connect with the product rather than just saying, this is this is a cool new IPA. This is a cool new IPA. yeah Some lessons for any brewers brewers out there listening.
Speaker: Tell your story really well. yeah know yeah invent make Make sure people connect with you and then you might be able to sell more kegs in the West. Yeah. I mean, I'll see that sort of one way in which you're seeing sort of drinkers changing. i mean, it is, know you know, you touched upon of the first half of the chat about, you being a challenging um time at the minute. has been for a number of years, you know, the the COVID challenges feel a long time ago and very different to what's happening now. um You know, and you're seeing, I guess, experiencing different challenges in with the venues in the different parts of city as well. i mean, what's your take on the health of things and and where it's heading and, you know, how you think people are managing to...
Speaker: keep going. It feels like the hospitality has faced a a hangover, so to speak, post COVID that's still lingering. And we speak to other operators about how,
Speaker: things are really hard. Are we talking within Melbourne or do you talk to people sort of further afield as well? I'm talking specifically within Melbourne and I think the venues that we talk to in Sydney and Western Australia, specifically with craft beer, have different answers and and they they react differently. But I think Melbourne's in its own... kind of ah niche being in craft beer in Melbourne like a niche within a niche i guess but yeah it's it's it's tricky navigating hospitality businesses especially you know rising costs of living and everything that's going on but I think we just want to continue creating spaces that people want to be at not just for special occasions but feel comfortable being at you know for a knockoff or or for a special occasion or for something else you know And then looking at sort of, you know, you put your peers who are going well, do you see are there sort of common threads that sort of like, this is why these businesses are doing better than others? I mean, is there something that you're seeing? Obviously, you're talking about this putting drinks that people can connect with, but are there other sort of themes or trends you're seeing within hospitality that seem to be, you know, able to rise above the the issues that are very much prevalent. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think that what I see and and what we talk about and what is talked about a lot, it's not just us, but it's this idea of the pub, you know, and I think that the pub culture and and, you know, these new kind of pubs that are coming out are really doing well. And that's what people are resonating with. And I don't think it's just necessarily by virtue of them being a pub, but it's more about what that space is
Speaker: kind of signifies to people, which is that third space. And it's that kind of sense of connection and you can go in and you can get a cheap palmer and a pot of beer and then be surrounded by people, you know, talking in a warm space. So that's, you know, in terms of the aesthetic changes that we're making is, is something that is trying to kind of get more in line with that and, and,
Speaker: setting us up as that third space that people can go in and be comfortable. you know like One of the things we're doing is going to be like a $10 pint all the time, you know which which is going to be ah a loss leader. But for us... As long as someone drinks something else, you'll be all right. Yeah, but it's not even about that. It's about that person being in there. And then you know they want to come back and just... you know they just They can't necessarily afford to go out all the time, but they come in, they can have that one beer and you can have a conversation with them. And I think that's what people go into these spaces for connection. It becomes self-perpetuating, doesn't it? I think, you know, whenever I pop into, for example, the sporting club in Brunswick, since since they started doing part of Origin, it doesn't matter but when you go in there. yeah It can be early in the week, you know, sort of half four and there'll be people in there. And because it's it's like that,
Speaker: it becomes self-perpetuation. People know if you go there, there's going to be someone around. There's going to be someone at the bar. There's going to be a bit of an atmosphere. not going to be Billy No Mates or Scott No Mates over here. Totally, yeah. It's such a good pub and I think that's a really good example. And when Jack and I talk about what we're investing in, it's not necessarily like shiny new toys, but things like maybe we need to provide free Wi-Fi so people can do work on their laptop they come in. Or maybe we need... to put more PowerPoints in so people have opportunities to, you know, do something to connect with the space more like a living room than it is like venue. So they're the things that we're looking at changing, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And anything else you sort of seen that seems to be, you know,
Speaker: I guess, cutting through in this in this day and age? um I think that, for me, is is the biggest thing I see is just people looking for a sense of comfort in ah in a world that's a little bit ah tumultuous at the moment, you know? so I'm glad you said tumultuous. A little bit. like Nothing's little at the minute, but when you added tumultuous, that sort of brought things back in the right direction, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, just that sense of... just that sense of um Comfort and connection you know is what I see people resonating with. And it's also what I resonate with. you know i'm not just I'm not just doing the observation. It's I'm kind of taking stock of the places that I like to go.
Speaker: and I spend my time. If I'm not at work, I'm i'm going elsewhere. you know Bar Josephine around the corner from us is like one of the best local bars. you know And you go in there and it's like it's like a community space where it's, you know, every person in Footscray will stop through there at some point on the day. And, you know, I see myself kind of connecting with that. And so I want to make sure that we're giving, you know, we want to make sure that we're giving that kind of folding that into what we do. Even like the the wine pours that we're going to be doing, you know, we're kind of introducing a large wine pour, which it seems like not ah not a crazy thing to do, right? But we call it the ah RSL or the home pour, where it's like, you know, you can get a big 200 ml glass of wine and... and um There's something about that that feels a little bit more like you' you're... A bit more pubby. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or in your living room. Living room and intentional and homely. Yeah.
Speaker: And I think you sort of, outside of the world of hospital, you do hear at um younger generations sort of perhaps wanting to get away from their life on social media or a life on screens or whatever and actually getting out into nature or getting out into some sort of community groups as well. And I guess that's been...
Speaker: the, know, at the heart of the appeal of, of socializing and going out to your local pub or hotel room, whatever, you know, forever. That's, that is really what it's about, isn't It's that sort of convivial warm place where, you know, it is about coming together. Totally. And I think you can probably comment on the success of our local run club that you've been running as well. It's, uh, Yeah, we do a run club every fortnight and we've been doing that for like three and a half, four years. Left-handed Giant did one, so I kind of bought that. It's not a new thing. People have been running for a while. People have been running for a while. But, you know, kind of like we started doing that just before all the run clubs kind of started taking off. But there's this really great community of people that come. It has been every fortnight. I'm going to start doing it every week once we reopen. But we do a really... They're a little positive sort of vibe for beer and breweries generally as well. Yeah. Everyone that does one seems to love putting a photo on socials once a week or once a month or whatever of their Run Club just coming back because it's healthy and it's happy. it's like the people that have been coming to the Run Club, I see them come and they introduce themselves and then all of a sudden they're coming in a week later together just having a beer.
Speaker: So it's like you're kind of you kind of like facilitating these connections. And one of the other things that we're going to start... um doing, which is going to, we've been talking with one of our bar supervisors, Sharky, about we're going to be start doing a knitting circle in the bar. So it's just going to be like a weekly knitting circle where people come together and we just create a space where they can come and just do handcrafts and they can do it by their own projects. So we can have communal projects that we work on. Sharky's getting pretty cool ideas about it. But, you know, recognizing the success of the run club,
Speaker: just about what that means. what mean? It's not immediate return. It's not immediate return on investment because you give away a free beer and then, you know, um some people might just stay for the beer, but it's about the community that you can grow around your space. And so i think that we want to make sure that we lean into that as much as possible. Well remember we did we did a feature on the importance of events for i think maybe specific breweries have been last year, earlier this year and one the we chatted to was the guys at Little Bang and their biggest event of the year now is called Fire and Froth and it's basically people coming in dressed as wizards and you know like full cosplay for almost everyone there and they do you know they release their annual Baltic Porter for it But it's huge. It's it's its but pumping because yeah people are looking, if there's our communities out there looking for something fun to go and do with like-minded people and they put this thing on now and they're like, okay, there's a lot of wizards out there and witches, come on, you know, whatever it takes. That's it. I mean, but we used to do like every two weeks we would do a ta takeover and, you know, it would be always product-focused events and there was community around that and, you know, there still is. But in terms what we see people resonating with and and like really getting actually excited about and what we're getting really excited about are these ones where it's like, you know, you say they release a Baltic Porter, but it's, you know, still people come and just to be in a room full of other like-minded people they can make connections with, you know. So, yeah, that's that's actually what I'm pretty excited about that.
Speaker: Yeah, that's great. no will m So I guess when this is going out, the bar will be taking shape. Within a few weeks of that the new cave should be should be ready. So ah best luck getting getting all that finished. Thanks for coming on the show. And I will see you in the cave, Rob, Mr. West, sometime soon. Or a spontane. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, James. Thank you. Cheers.
Speaker: The Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by me, Matt Hoffman. For all partnership inquiries, please reach out to Craig Williams at craig at craftypint.com. To keep up to date with everything in Australian craft beer, head to www.craftypint.com.
