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00:00:00
00:00:01
Andrey Kessel
55 Plays2 months ago
We talk about going from software sales to venture capital to being a fractional executive and seeing over 40k business plans.
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Transcript
Introduction to Andrew Kessel
00:00:01
Joe Waltman
All right, today we've got Andrew Kessel. Andrew, thanks so much for making the time.
00:00:04
Andrey Kessel
Good to be here. Good to be here, Joe.
00:00:07
Joe Waltman
All right, ah refresh your memory. What were you doing before in Seattle, and what have you been up to for the last 21 years?
00:00:13
Andrey Kessel
So the dark past. um I'm a computer science ah degree guy who basically, last year of university, I realized that the two options I have in front of me ah pretty much involve a sweater and a beard, which is, you know, programming or sysadmin or things like that. I don't like them. So I went into sales.
00:00:33
Andrey Kessel
And before in Seattle, I actually was finishing my thesis last year of university.
00:00:34
Joe Waltman
fresh out of school.
00:00:41
Andrey Kessel
I worked full time. So luckily it was very close. So I could actually run from work to the to to university if I really had to.
Journey to Budapest and IPO Experience
00:00:51
Andrey Kessel
But I barely was in the university.
00:00:51
Joe Waltman
cool
00:00:53
Andrey Kessel
And i so I went into sales. And basically after that I set up an office of a software company in in my hometown, which is St. Petersburg in Russia.
00:01:04
Andrey Kessel
Then that's when I left Russia, which is about 25 years ago, and I went to the headquarters of that company. And in fact, I basically was doing various things in
00:01:14
Joe Waltman
Where would that have been?
00:01:16
Andrey Kessel
That was in Budapest. The company was firstly headquartered in Budapest.
00:01:17
Joe Waltman
okay
00:01:20
Andrey Kessel
It's a fascinating story, let's say. We took over the... it It's basically a licensee to cover the licensor and we became a global company. And got listed on Amsterdam, on VM at first, and on Amsterdam.
00:01:35
Andrey Kessel
and you know so it actually That was my first IPO from within the
Pursuing Business Education at INSEAD
00:01:40
Andrey Kessel
company. I managed to buy a flat in Budapest. We got money, all of that. right so But basically, by the time I was getting to INSEAD, I was doing biz dev. I was doing international, going across borders in the in the region. And as most people, I think, well, not most, at least, excluding consultants, excluding some people who are more sane, I was sort of a bit lost and not sure. And you know so i'm I'm convinced that at least 50% of ABI students are not running towards something, but running away from something.
00:02:13
Joe Waltman
Oh, that's deep. That's deep. I like that. Yeah, think I think I agree with you.
00:02:15
Andrey Kessel
i will tell So I was sort of one of those and I went into INSEAD and that's that's that's the story.
00:02:26
Joe Waltman
So you were running away from ah software sales? or or
00:02:30
Andrey Kessel
i was well I wasn't quite sure,
Entering Venture Capital in the UK
00:02:33
Andrey Kessel
to be honest with you. i mean i Basically, I was a techie. The software company was ERP, which is a kind of financial accounting, you know logistics, all of that stuff. So I learned that. I knew accounting by that time. i knew well But I didn't really know anything about business per se. you know I knew how to do how to make deals, how to do deals with people.
00:02:57
Andrey Kessel
how to go and do biz dev and sell. Although I'm not much of a sales guy, you know, because I'm not into repetitive sales actions. I was always more of a biz dev. Go across the border, parachute yourself, get some revenue from that. Okay, I'm going there and figuring out how to get that revenue. But it just felt like a bit of a dead end, you know, and I applied.
00:03:25
Andrey Kessel
And in the end, I actually took a job, was in that job for about six six months more, no, about a year, and then I had to quit because I got a minute to inset. So that was, yeah, so I sort of realized that I also want a bit of a business education.
00:03:49
Andrey Kessel
and yeah And then you know it everybody was telling me that, yeah, it helps you to sort of elevate to a new level, all of that stuff. I didn't really know what that means, I don't think. So I know now, right?
00:04:01
Andrey Kessel
But then I didn't.
00:04:03
Joe Waltman
okay.
00:04:04
Andrey Kessel
So and then after, the next question is what are we be doing after that? Well, if you remember, our year wasn't wasn't as bad as 2000, 2002, but it was pretty tough.
00:04:18
Andrey Kessel
I was struggling with getting a job offered. In the end, I got two, which surprised me a little bit. One was from, I mean, I was a startup guy, right? I mean, I did a bunch of things within startups. And one was from a startup in Germany.
00:04:39
Andrey Kessel
In Dresden, but I was I wasn't fully convinced you know, but then totally by chance I Now I know how it works because I came from you know, my employer became Amadeus, which is a venture fund I Recruited on campus since then so because basically what?
00:04:59
Joe Waltman
but Okay, hold on, hold on, let's let's back up. so So where did you end up landing afterwards yet?
00:05:03
Andrey Kessel
Ended up in the UK in a venture fund. I ended up living in Cambridge in
00:05:07
Joe Waltman
Oh really, like like like as a VC, allocating money.
00:05:10
Andrey Kessel
I said EC to my big surprise. Exactly.
00:05:13
Joe Waltman
Wow, wow. that's a that's I
Venture Capital Insights and Experiences
00:05:15
Andrey Kessel
oh
00:05:15
Joe Waltman
think a lot of people try to do that.
00:05:16
Joe Waltman
Not many were successful.
00:05:16
Andrey Kessel
Exactly. And a lot of people called me and since then, you know, saying, how did you get into EC? And, you know, I usually say, I hate to disappoint you. I didn't. I wasn't getting into the EC. You know, it it it basically, there is a partner in Amadeus, or ex-partner now, who's an Insead guy. And he he basically comes to campus to some class and looks for people who make good comments and talks to the professor before gets hints who to you know pay attention to and there are interviews following that and that's how I got picked up I mean basically if you remember Phil Anderson who was a wonderful
00:06:01
Joe Waltman
Yeah, the rep guy, right?
00:06:03
Andrey Kessel
Yeah, wonderful guy who did they basically did a bunch of classes, including new opportunities and things like that. And he tipped Richard, who is the partner, that he should talk to me. And
Transition to Fractional Executive Role
00:06:16
Andrey Kessel
Richard did. And I think I actually never asked him that. I should ask him. I think I totally blew the first interview, because when when Richard called me, I was thinking about their portfolio companies. And he was thinking coming to work for them, for the front. And I was like,
00:06:32
Andrey Kessel
yeah What's that? you know i didn't Well, I sort of knew about the investors, but I didn't really know much about how it works and all of this. And and and as I started talking to people, i I basically started getting more and more interested and sort of towards the second started interview, I was really interested and i then I started trying to get in.
00:06:55
Andrey Kessel
um But for me it was easy compared to people who had to spend like a year on an internship trying to get liked and stuff like that. I basically interviewed and I and i walked right in. and so yeah I did it for longer than I should have.
00:07:06
Joe Waltman
That's cool. that's cool well Let's talk about what it was like and how long you're there for.
00:07:13
Andrey Kessel
I i basically did, I was in Amadeus for about seven years, which was probably a few years longer than I should have stayed.
00:07:25
Andrey Kessel
Then after that I left and I said...
00:07:26
Joe Waltman
but Hold on, but hold on. This this this is really interesting. So they they they pluck somebody out of business school with you know no offense, with very little VC experience. um but what What did they do to sort of ah you know groom you, if anything, as as a VC, or do they kind of just let you let you run?
00:07:35
Andrey Kessel
Correct.
00:07:40
Andrey Kessel
Nothing. Not much, not much. I mean basically... Okay, well firstly they didn't just pluck me, they checked if I was suitable by giving everybody who was into interviewing a ah case study.
00:07:54
Andrey Kessel
And in reality, what they did is they gave, and that was really unfair and they changed it since then, they gave a case study of four companies. They gave four companies that they really were looking at.
00:08:07
Andrey Kessel
And they said, of these four, which one would you invest in? And for me, it was a complete nightmare because I worked.
00:08:15
Joe Waltman
but But this is the interview process.
00:08:16
Andrey Kessel
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:17
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:08:19
Andrey Kessel
So i I basically I worked out more or less how to do it. I talked to a bunch of people I mean, I I mean, I remember Ricky Knox giving me some pointers ah You know with a coffee next next to the cafeteria, you know all of that but I basically couldn't select one and It felt like I should have selected one and I was killing myself changing that you know my thinking direction and and at some point Boris late it and super helpful he came to me and because you know he was he was from McKinsey so you know one skill that they have which is fabulous which is how to structure thinking and presenting and Boris basically told me look if you're going through this much trouble just tell them what you think
00:09:05
Andrey Kessel
It's probably risk, but you probably will look more credible in the interview than if you're trying to come up with stuff you don't believe. And he helped me structure the presentation. So I basically, I was the only one in that batch who came out and said, I wouldn't invest in any of them.
00:09:22
Andrey Kessel
And it wasn't my answer because apparently that's exactly the thing they changed.
00:09:22
Joe Waltman
Yeah, that's all's and that's probably the right answer, because they they were probably all, yeah. yeah
00:09:28
Andrey Kessel
They gave four companies they didn't invest in.
00:09:31
Joe Waltman
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:32
Andrey Kessel
and But I then followed up by saying if I really was Forced to select one I would probably go towards this one, but that's why I wouldn't invest in this one either That's what I would select it and and that's exactly what they wanted they wanted to see and and apparently I hid exactly the right thing I did I without knowing It was overpriced. I didn't know what overpriced means and how it looks but i I basically worked it out without knowing you any words or anything like that.
00:10:02
Andrey Kessel
So I you know i wasn't i wasn't completely unprepared. But the the trainee was on the job.
00:10:08
Joe Waltman
Cool.
00:10:10
Andrey Kessel
you know Here are companies, go look at companies. So I started looking at companies and you know um and ended up investing and all of that stuff.
00:10:21
Joe Waltman
Cool.
European Tech Scene vs. Silicon Valley
00:10:22
Joe Waltman
Cool. And they were in London?
00:10:25
Andrey Kessel
Amadeus at that time had an office in Cambridge and in London.
00:10:28
Joe Waltman
Okay. Okay.
00:10:29
Andrey Kessel
50, 50 between the two.
00:10:29
Joe Waltman
Cambridge. That's right. That's right. All right. So you were there for seven years. and Did you make partner or did you leave before then?
00:10:35
Andrey Kessel
I left right before that and I basically, I started making my own investments, which which is you know basically at that level.
00:10:37
Joe Waltman
OK.
00:10:44
Andrey Kessel
and the
00:10:50
Andrey Kessel
i mean look the the the I can talk about why I left and what I did after that. but mean i'm i'm very glad i had that experience because now i know I mean, I'm still a startup guy, I'm still in startups, but I've been on all sides.
00:11:04
Andrey Kessel
Not only have I been on in basically in pretty much all the functions, either working in them or had them report to me in startups, but I also know how investors think. And not just because I negotiated with them, right?
00:11:15
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:11:17
Andrey Kessel
I negotiated from them. i mean example like
00:11:19
Joe Waltman
Yeah, you were one of them. Yeah. And that is something having a little bit of surgery to myself. Many, many founders really have no idea how how VC funds work.
00:11:26
Andrey Kessel
It was a different language.
00:11:28
Joe Waltman
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:29
Andrey Kessel
it it It took me maybe a year to realize that the job is very different. Because you know if you simplify it, the job investor is not dissimilar to the job of of insurance underwriters.
00:11:43
Andrey Kessel
You're you're you're assessing a pricing risk. It's in most cases. It's not your job to fix the risk whereas for the founders. That's the job to fix the risk and fix the problems and and that that requires different thinking and you know and and plus on top of that I mean I've When company under performs, I know what happens to the VC who's on the board right i've been beaten up by a by the by the by further speaking for that
00:12:15
Andrey Kessel
so And you know I know I've been in their shoes, I've done their job, right? So it's it's relatively easy for me to, and obviously you can't as you know assess or understand everything, but I have a pretty good chance. and and and very often i sit in fundraising meetings, and it feels like people across the table think they understand each other, but they don't necessarily.
00:12:38
Andrey Kessel
mean I mean, I've been conducting experience since then.
00:12:38
Joe Waltman
okay right
00:12:40
Andrey Kessel
I worked with a company that was the most senior company team that I worked with. That was the guy, you know, the company called Arm, which became quite big. Tim is, I mean, it's a multi-billion last valuation that was reported, like 40 billion.
00:12:55
Andrey Kessel
And and it's it's a fabulous company. And Tim is the guy who put the basics of commercial approach and strategy in it. One of the most senior people like I've met in my life and worked with, he never worked with VCs.
00:13:04
Joe Waltman
Okay. All right.
00:13:09
Andrey Kessel
And I had really funny conversations with him where he would call me and say, why is this investor or board member asking me this? And I'm like, Tim, he's not asking you that. He's asking you this. Oh, that makes sense. And in a second, you have an answer, right? The guy knows how to deal with it. It's just, that was a classic translation question.
00:13:30
Joe Waltman
yeah all right let's but moving Moving on now, we're seven years in, well, I'm guessing about 2010.
00:13:31
Andrey Kessel
that
00:13:36
Joe Waltman
What was your next thing?
00:13:37
Andrey Kessel
Yeah, the the next thing, I basically decided I want to go portfolio. And I've been doing that ever since. Now there was a term for it. the There wasn't at the time. Now it's called fractional executive, which basically means you're shared by multiple companies.
00:13:54
Joe Waltman
Mm hmm.
00:13:56
Andrey Kessel
a But I basically do a bit of a zigzag where I go through what I call company dating period. where I date multiple companies. And then in some cases I date for longer, in some cases I jump in. So the last two jumps, the last three jumps now, one was I was COO of a company out of Switzerland, business software, which is doing really well at the moment. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I don't have any active role in it. I stepped off the board not so long ago, but I did.
00:14:29
Andrey Kessel
But I still go to board meetings and I talk to to to the CEO every now and then. ah So that's that that that has been a really difficult experience because I was when the company was and in in dire straits. But it's a super interesting company at the moment. The next dive was I went into the ah venture fund, but not nothing to do with investments to work with their companies.
00:14:57
Andrey Kessel
sort of operating partner, entrepreneur in residence, whatever you call it.
00:15:00
Joe Waltman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:01
Andrey Kessel
I worked with like five companies or something like that. I did that for a year and a half and that was a deep tech fund. I think they are the biggest deepcap fund in europe i mean in the u k they are probably the biggest anyway they definitely must be and they're one of the earlier people that did that and Now um um I'm back to my dating phase and I have a couple of lighter dating and I have more serious dating with a company which is in microbiology space and they basically have a technology, they have a software which allows you to model reactions with microbes and the application that is
00:15:43
Joe Waltman
Oh, wow. So it did not even a software thing. This is like a truly a hard science.
00:15:46
Andrey Kessel
ah that is from It is but it's just applied to a different area.
00:15:47
Joe Waltman
Uh-huh.
00:15:50
Andrey Kessel
i mean i I'm explaining to them how software works and they're explaining to me how microbiology works.
00:15:50
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:15:56
Andrey Kessel
thats Usually the connections between areas is the most interesting bit because you know it's hard to do and it's it's interesting.
00:15:56
Joe Waltman
Cool. Sure.
00:16:04
Andrey Kessel
And the idea is basically you take food by products as they're called, or basically can basically call waste from manufacturing food. And that usually goes to animal feed or dumped or whatever, and you transform that into protein or something very useful.
00:16:20
Andrey Kessel
And you know the the company has a technology that allows big companies to do that. Early stage, but...
00:16:29
Joe Waltman
Wait, wait, hold on. what so So you're basically taking animal poop and you're turning it into...
00:16:32
Andrey Kessel
No, no, no, you're taking, for example, Barilla is a client.
00:16:37
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:16:38
Andrey Kessel
You're taking stuff which is left from producing bread, for example.
00:16:41
Joe Waltman
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
00:16:43
Andrey Kessel
and that pile can go to feed animals or you can
00:16:46
Joe Waltman
I see.
00:16:46
Andrey Kessel
um that into protein in which you then either sell when Borilla can feed it back into their manufacturing process.
00:16:52
Joe Waltman
Cool, cool.
00:16:52
Andrey Kessel
But you basically take not interesting stuff, I mean pretty much poop and transform that into you know a bit of a gold dust.
00:16:57
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
Advice for Startups and Operational Focus
00:17:01
Joe Waltman
All right.
00:17:01
Andrey Kessel
so
00:17:02
Joe Waltman
You, you're you're the second kind of, let's call you a European VC person, you know, to be very crude who I've had on first one being Reshma. And and there is, you know, i'm I'm probably a little bit of a egotistical North American ah tech startup person and and there is this interesting kind of question that's always asked, um why is it that you know every you know X billion dollar company was founded you know either in Northern California or or in Seattle and there's basically been nothing founded with maybe one or two exceptions depending on how you value these companies like outside of this this these two tiny little ah you know microcosms.
00:17:17
Andrey Kessel
yeah
00:17:41
Andrey Kessel
a I can answer why, but first I'll tell you that the premise of the question is wrong. There are companies that came out of Europe, which are billion-dollar companies.
00:17:49
Joe Waltman
I like it.
00:17:55
Andrey Kessel
ah Not all of them are known, but for example, SAP would be the one that everybody knows that came out of Germany. business object which was but by us if he came out of paris that those are billion door companies i actually worked in my time with emadals i worked with a billandor company we sold the company and it it went to make a bill anddora company and as part of Illumina, which is a US company.
00:18:21
Andrey Kessel
It is, I think, still is the gold standard of gene sequencing.
00:18:26
Joe Waltman
okay so I totally acknowledge that I am not the smartest person on this. I've i've seen some things where they sort of they they set like ah an arbitrary like 15 billion or something, some arbitrary value, which obviously puts these these examples underneath or something like that.
00:18:30
Andrey Kessel
then
00:18:39
Joe Waltman
and that's That's the point i mean where there have been like 10 or 15 coming out of of you know Silicon Valley.
00:18:45
Andrey Kessel
yeah know If we rephrase the question, because I mean Skype would be a 15 billion equivalent of today, the one I worked with would be 10 billion equivalent today, then it was a billion at that time.
00:18:45
Joe Waltman
and and so Yeah.
00:18:51
Joe Waltman
yeah
00:18:55
Joe Waltman
yeah
00:18:57
Andrey Kessel
But the question, if you rephrase the question, why there are many of them and in in in California and not so many in other areas,
00:18:57
Joe Waltman
okay
00:19:05
Andrey Kessel
that is not a european question that's a question for New York as well. New York is catching up. If you looked at New York 15 years ago, it would be exactly the same question, right? Or 20 years ago.
00:19:14
Joe Waltman
Yeah, well.
00:19:15
Andrey Kessel
And Europe is in the same boat. Europe has more and more of them. ah California started earlier. And plus, California managed to get an environment and the culture which is more prone to that sort of thing than, you know, in Europe, for example,
00:19:33
Andrey Kessel
ah to do a billion door company out of continental europe is much more difficult in the u k it's easier for a whole number of reasons ah You have regulations, you have legislation, you have cultural mindset. Europe is much more afraid of failure. ah you know Many people in Europe much more are oriented towards the numbers rather than you know the vision, although by far not not the case anymore as it used to be even 15, 20 years ago. um But I think it's just a catching up question.
00:20:05
Andrey Kessel
and it's also the question of volume right i mean if you look at dc Europe has about a fifth of the money of the US.
00:20:15
Andrey Kessel
If you look at any other industry, US is just bigger, right?
00:20:19
Joe Waltman
Yeah, third point, third point.
00:20:20
Andrey Kessel
You just got yourself in a position of of being number one after World War II and has remained in that position and Europe is sliding down.
00:20:31
Andrey Kessel
so
00:20:32
Joe Waltman
but so let Let me tell you my favorite answer to that question, which is is certainly not correct, but maybe part of the answer is that ah real estate in Silicon Valley, specifically has historically, has been so expensive that it's that ah you know obviously single people wouldn't have kids, but even couples, they they they don't have enough bedrooms in their apartments to actually have children.
00:20:53
Joe Waltman
which means they work longer into their thirties and forties, you know, without kids, which allows them, which is arguably your more productive years, but you're not, you're not wasting, quote unquote, wasting your time raising kids.
00:21:04
Joe Waltman
You can spend all your time in the office, you know, building software or doing whatever it is sort of people do. I like, I like that answer.
00:21:11
Andrey Kessel
It's a nice theory, but London is full of people like that, right?
00:21:13
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:21:14
Andrey Kessel
i it's it's it's that's not it's it's It's a general culture, the American working culture is harder than European, even than the UK, and continental Europe even more so.
00:21:14
Joe Waltman
That's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:25
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:21:28
Andrey Kessel
so
00:21:28
Joe Waltman
Yeah. Here we go. Now, now I like these these broad stereotypes. and this is This is helpful. this is This is good.
00:21:33
Andrey Kessel
um Unfortunately, this one is true, unfortunately.
00:21:33
Joe Waltman
Hey.
00:21:36
Joe Waltman
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:36
Andrey Kessel
Unfortunately, God knows.
00:21:37
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:21:38
Andrey Kessel
i mean
00:21:38
Joe Waltman
Uh-huh.
00:21:41
Joe Waltman
This has been really yeah really interesting. It sounds like you've got you've got it. We've only glossed over some of these probably really, really cool companies you've you've worked on. I'm sure some startup people would be ah would be happy to ah to you know follow up and and hear more.
00:21:54
Joe Waltman
um let let me
00:21:54
Andrey Kessel
i've been very lucky go i mean just One of the things that is amazing when looking back is the statistics I accumulated because at some point somebody asked me to count, calculate the numbers and I worked out and i since then I sort of approximate. I've seen about 40,000 business plans. on I worked with about 100 companies and with about 50 quite closely.
00:22:17
Andrey Kessel
And it's it's super useful, right? Because you you start to recognize the movie from the titles.
00:22:22
Joe Waltman
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
00:22:23
Andrey Kessel
You know, it's not S.M.A.T. or G.L.N.T. or Blink stuff.
00:22:28
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:22:28
Andrey Kessel
So so that's... But obviously, the thing that I want to say maybe to to finish this bit and go to the next one is...
00:22:32
Joe Waltman
I ask...
00:22:39
Andrey Kessel
I am an operational guy and it took me a long time after you know being so distracted by all cool MFVC to return back. I mean i went after VC, I went into portfolio.
00:22:53
Andrey Kessel
And then I was like, okay, I'm going to invest a bit. And then I started working with companies more. And now I'm fully operational back. I haven't done anything on investment side really for the last maybe even 10 years or something. And I enjoyed more. So that's that's my story in short.
00:23:12
Joe Waltman
That's great.
Final Thoughts on Community Collaboration
00:23:13
Joe Waltman
That's great. Well, I ask everybody one ah final question and if if it's if it's not relevant to you, just say no thanks and we can we can wrap this up. But is there anything that we as the community can do to help you or vice versa? What what what might you be able to do to offer somebody and one of our colleagues?
00:23:31
Andrey Kessel
i to To be honest with you, I think I have one answer to both of those questions and to me that's companies because ah I mean that's that's That's for me, it's it's it's it's a source of joy and and a bit of a hobby. But at the same time, I also know, mean maybe five years ago, the first time I realized that I don't have to work 24 hours a day anymore. Because sometimes you can make a big difference just by listening to somebody for half an hour. ah Just because you've seen their movie before as well, right? And they haven't.
00:24:08
Andrey Kessel
um and And so i I think the answer is companies.
00:24:08
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:24:14
Andrey Kessel
I'm happy to look at companies, talk to people. i Try to tell them i'm I'm sort of because I'm Russian Russians Israelis, you know a few other cultures are very direct and I sort of hold the view that in startups you can't be you shouldn't be not direct because you don't really have the time to mess about so I yeah and you know and the cost of consequence i I Some people like I work can work with and some people I can't write if you oops
00:24:44
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:24:45
Andrey Kessel
but So I'm happy to look at companies. I'm also interested in looking at companies, partly because there is there may be something in it for me in the end, but I'm also, i'm I'm really enjoying it. So I'm still seeing, I'm not actively looking for anything, but I'm still seeing a bit of deal flow, if you wish, using VC term coming through me. um i you i I can tell you, you know the in the last few months, two two, three very interesting companies that I've seen.
00:25:16
Joe Waltman
Well, that's that's that's super interesting. so and just I'll make my common disclaimer. If there are any investments that happen as a result of this podcast, I expect a very modest commission. I'm i'm not a greedy man.
00:25:27
Joe Waltman
ah sollll We'll use the honor system there.
00:25:30
Andrey Kessel
Yeah, but look I'm not I'm not sure I'm not offering raising investment for people that I say edit door since yeah we Okay, cheers see you
00:25:31
Joe Waltman
I'm i'm kidding.
00:25:36
Joe Waltman
um and i am and i am and i'm kidding I'm kidding. Don't take that seriously. like ah hey Thank you very much for your time. ah Very, very interesting. i Appreciate it.