Transcript
Joe Waltman: All right, today we have Leandro Almeida. Leandro, thanks for joining.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Thank you for having having me, man. A pleasure.
Joe Waltman: First question, same as always, refreshing memory. What were you doing before INSEAD and what have we been up to for the last 21-ish years? twenty one ish years
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So I'm originally from Brazil, as you know, but I was the last three years prior to INSEADA was in New York, doing investment banking, focusing on Latin America. It was actually a fun time. We we were like 80 Latin Americans based in New York.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: with with no families working on M&A for the region so traveling a lot I was focusing mainly on Brazil Argentina Venezuela at the time was still hot and and that's it and Mexico yes
Joe Waltman: Nice. Nice. Uh, and then you made the move to France.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yes, actually INSEAD was good for me because first I wanted to move to Europe. So I got my my objective. i didn't I had no intentions to change my career.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um I just wanted to go to Europe, ah mainly London or Madrid. And that's what happened. And also i want to know a lot of people. so So in the end, I want a year break. Everything was fantastic.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So it worked well for me.
Joe Waltman: And then what did you do after Incienia?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So we joined the Deutsche Bank in London. Again, i was building London, ref focusing on southern countries. So my focus was on Spain and Portugal.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um And at some point I was in a team of six Spanish people and myself, so I paid all my all my duties. I'm going to heaven for sure. But as joli as I was the only Portuguese speaker, so I was very focusing on Portugal.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And that's when I actually got to know Portugal well and was a very important moment from for my life because personally, I decided I would leave in Portugal at some point.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And as you know, I live in Portugal now. up yeah But it was it was a fun time. um a lot of you know I got to know the two countries a lot. and i you know but My Spanish speaking also improved a lot.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So I had a lot ah lot of fun. um And I got closer to our Portuguese friends also in from INSEAD.
Joe Waltman: Yeah. how How do you, do you feel like the um the Portuguese mafia has, has, has received you well? I mean that you're, you're, you're sort of an insider and an outsider as a Brazilian. What to, uh,
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: No, I think they have. They have. you know But it's strange because I'm much closer to the Portuguese from from Singapore than Fontainebleau in here.
Joe Waltman: Hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And that's just ah you know how how life it is how life is. whether Daniel Elias and Joana, etc. they They are the ones who who hosted me. ah But yes, yes, they they have been amazing.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: It helped a lot.
Joe Waltman: Nice. Nice. Okay. So let's get back to the the career stuff. So you're you're at Deutsche Bank in London. How long did that one go for?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: It was four years, um and then I was hired by, i had received an offer from a competition from UBS ah to do the same thing.
Joe Waltman: Okay.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And six months later, actually, received an offer from Merrill Lynch to cover Brazil out of London.
Joe Waltman: Hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And if if you look at the time in 2008, 2009, the bubble was bursting everywhere, so uh you had the Lehman issue etc so i um i decided to move to to to Merrill Lynch and Merrill Lynch after six months invited me to come but go back to Brazil so was going to Brazil
Joe Waltman: but Now, were things less crazy in Brazil? ah like was it was it Was it more solid or or was it even crazier with the GFC?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: no no and no Brazil was was booming i know you if you remember in 2008 2009
Joe Waltman: Yeah, yeah. i seem to remember that. yeah Yeah, it was like it was a ah one of the few good economies of the time, right?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Exactly, exactly. i mean, Lula was fooling everyone. So we were like the the real ah economy.
Joe Waltman: No politics. No politics. Keep it out. Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: No, no, it's not politics.
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: It was doing something good ah ah because I went there, right? So I, and not not only me, so economy was booming. I think we we grew by 6% in 2009 and nine and the the world was just falling apart.
Joe Waltman: And
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So was like it was a good move from from a career perspective. Also, I went home and for covering clients, it made a lot of sense. I stayed with Merrill Lynch for one year because then you had the acquisition and Merrill Lynch was acquired by,
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um what was it, the Bank of America, B of A. And actually my career and up to that moment, i had I had been three banks who which were acquired by the middle of crises, which is fun. JP Morgan was acquired by Chase and then I had this one.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So I left Merrill Lynch to to open a new investment bank in Brazil with Unibanco. Unibanco was a mid-sized player. They they hired 12 partners. I was one of them.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I think it was a real opportunity to become real really rich. But then six months later, Unibanco went first and Itaú acquired Unibanco. And I ended up at BNP Barriba.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And I launched it to the investment banking business of BNP Paribas in Brazil. And I stayed there at the atmosphere.
Joe Waltman: Yeah. Wow. Well, full circle, but but back to a French bank. That's great.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, we cannot, ah it couldn't be better, but it was, it was a lot of fun.
Joe Waltman: Nice.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: We, we began with four people, zero revenues, and we ended up with a 35 people team in seven years. and became the second largest contributor to PBT, profit before taxes, to the bank in Brazil in seven years.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So it was what's it was very a lot of fun.
Joe Waltman: nice
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: and we And we did all the Brazilian crisis. So what while ah the rest of the world was recovering, we went into a crisis. And this was fun as well.
Joe Waltman: Now, I've got two naive questions regarding the investment banking.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: yeah
Joe Waltman: the The first one, it sounds like you went from being sort of, you know, um ah but let's call it the the the person executing the business, not necessarily the person winning the business when you started out to, I assume you were you were tasked with getting new clients, bla blah, blah, blah.
Joe Waltman: What was that like with these, you know, in in these later in these later jobs?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yes, yes. um Since I moved back to Brazil, my main my main job was to get new new businesses. But I was, let's say, a junior senior, a junior director. So when you're a junior director, you you are very technical. You you do a very technical sale.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So at Merrill Lynch and also Unibanco was doing, so I was visiting clients very often, so two, three, four clients a week. ah Sometimes with the same idea and try to make them work them out, and bringing knowledge from abroad, but on on a very technical basis.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: At some point, you know, as you execute transactions, as you get mandates, as you get to know people, you become more strategic ah sort strategic advice, right?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And that's what happened when I went to the world.
Joe Waltman: Tell me – sorry to interrupt you, but tell me what it means in in your world to be technical versus strategic and in the world of investment banking. Like what what are –
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Technical is, let's say, that we we we we saw a transaction in Turkey that made a lot of sense for a bank and generated capital for the bank out of the blue, let's say, sale of the insurance business or sale of 20% insurance business. made a lot sense.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So we do like a post-mortem presentation of this to a bank in Brazil. with rather similarities We we calculate to them what will be the benefits and what are the risks and et etct cetera, et cetera.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: so So that's a very technical say. I yeah i know it sounds strategic, but it is very technical. What's strategic for us? Strategic for us is not the same thing as strategic from the point of view of consulting.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Strategic is discussing with clients not only the the transactions, but also timing and how and how and timing, execution, execution strategy, because the deep deep the difference between us and consultants is that we execute what we sell.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So if I tell you, I'm going to say, you know, you should do an IPO and you should leverage your company or you should leverage your company or issue bonds. um with you until the date that you issue the bond or you did the ipo or everything fell apart and we are just paid if if everything went well so that that's that's it when you do a strategic sales is not strategic in terms of we define the structure of the company but it's a strategy of the execution of the business
Joe Waltman: I see. ah so Thank you. that That actually answers my second question, the difference between what you do and what consultants do. Now, tell me more more naivety on on my part.
Joe Waltman: Are these sales where you're basically going to the client saying, here's what you should be doing as a business? Or is the client more often to you saying, hey, we want to buy this company. Can you help us you know structure it and execute it?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: It's two ways, right? I mean, when it was at BNP, it was more the second. Why? Because we had a balance sheet, so we were lending things to them. i will land it to them Then when they had an M&A business, which is was not, to be honest, very strategic to them,
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: They would ah they pay us our loyalty with M&A mandates. So you come to us and say, I'm thinking of doing this. What you think? Would you execute Send us a proposal.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: When ah I was at the American Bank, especially Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan, which are really really have a lot of private information, let's say, then we go after them.
Joe Waltman: It
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: We never tell them what they should do in their business. That's not our role. but We understand what they say, so they say a lot of things publicly, and then what we come up with is with ideas for them to implement this in a better way.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Either to fund it better, to find a partner, etc., etc. okay You froze for a bit. Did you get that or no?
Joe Waltman: yeah Yeah, I got it. I got it. I got it. That's very very interesting. Thank you. um Cool. I feel a little bit less dumb about investment banking now. Thank you.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Am I the only one?
Joe Waltman: So you're at B&B Paribas in Brazil, right? Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: brazil In Sao Paulo, yes. was based in Sao Paulo. So I was... And BNP Paribas, don't know if you know, but it's the second largest foreign bank in Brazil just after sitting there. So it's it' not small. I was a member of their executive committee, which was fun.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um You know, ah obviously the head, that the CEO was a French person. But then out of the executive committee, we were like four Brazilians and three French people and was... so was quite interesting, very different their dynamics than ah an American bank.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um i if i If I may tell you what I felt, ah the Americans are much more objective in terms of deciding, ah but they kind of, because they invented this business and they actually have 80% of the market share of the business, they kind of think they know everything and how to do it.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And they
Joe Waltman: Well, don't they? I mean, that that seems that seems pretty obvious, right?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: yeah out of For you, yes, for sure.
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: But honestly, the the French, they take a long time to the decide, but they listen to the local offices much more.
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And there was something very strange. okay So we would do a conference call with seven people, you know and we discussed the matter for one hour, and then they hang up, and they never decided with us online.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So they hang up,
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: and they go like to their whatever thinking process they have to do and then they send us an email with the decision. And the Americans would just say, you know, i take your point, it's very valid, but you know, what I said is what matters, so that's the decision.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: but So it was a very interesting the change of dynamics in life.
Joe Waltman: That is interesting. Yes, and seeing it from both sides. and And as a Brazilian, seeing all that all that happening, that's that is that's cool.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: cool.
Joe Waltman: All right, up until when were you at B&B Paribas?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So 2016, when I decided to quit banking.
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So no ah I was 40 at the moment. um My career went well. I was not super rich, but I was rich enough for me to to say, OK, I'm going to do something for myself.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: ah My daughter was born one year earlier, my first daughter. And I decided to to to move to Portugal. So I quit.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I bought a house in Portugal and moved with my ex-wife and my my daughter to to Portugal. and the And there it comes the interesting part.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: ah My idea was to study medicine, to go to med school.
Joe Waltman: right.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I don't know if you knew that.
Joe Waltman: That's right. i remember that. Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So like I came to Portugal until the moment they allowed me.
Joe Waltman: How far down that path did you go?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Actually, i went to the exams, national exams. I took, it not national exams, for Portugal, for Portugal.
Joe Waltman: for For Portugal. For Portugal or for Brazil? Uh-huh.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I studied for one year.
Joe Waltman: Uh-huh.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I went to the national exams for people older than 23 years old.
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I took i get ah ah got a good grade, 19.2 out of 20, so I cannot say I didn't do my job. But I was forbidden from joining the the the college because I was over 40.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: and yeah because uh in portugal the all the med schools are public i stayed on and they see it as a public kind of and policy tool and they say that people but older than 39 years old should not start because they will not have time to give back enough to society so
Joe Waltman: Yeah. Yeah. did Did you know this when you started studying for a year or did you find this out after you got your...
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um I knew that they would deduct points from me, but I said, okay, i'm I was expecting half a point because that's what they did in the the past.
Joe Waltman: Okay.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And they just took three points apart from me, which was made possible, you know. um And, you know, I would you know i could i could go to to i could ah file a lawsuit against them. i would win because this is against European law.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: But the way it works for European law, it cannot the judges cannot tell them to allow me to study. and then I wait for the lawsuit to go forward.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And then the decision, if it's favorable, they give me the diploma. If it's unfavorable, I lose the diploma. No, I have to wait for the lawsuit. So in the end of the day, favorite so so I said, no, no way.
Joe Waltman: Yeah, you'll be 50 by the time you're you're able to start law school, yeah. All right, so so what what what did ah what did Plan b become?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So plan B wasn't expected, but a friend of mine ah from from London, I had worked with her for for a while, she recommended me to a small American investment bank.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: they were opening ah an office in Portugal. So I ran a small investment bank in Portugal for two years. ah Tough market, small market, but I think we we need we had some successes, but then we had the the the pandemic, right?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: and they decided to close the office and I was ah was out and at that moment I decided just to to do things for myself and I've been involved in small real estate residential projects and' until today that's what I do
Joe Waltman: How did you decide to to of all the things you could do, why did you choose real estate?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Three things first because As a private individual, I have always invested in real estate. I think I have...
Joe Waltman: Okay. So this this is not your first ah investment in real estate, let's say.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: No, no, no.
Joe Waltman: Okay.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: I always invested. I didn't do much, but I invested with with developers. And actually, i made more money as investor in real estate than investment banking in my life.
Joe Waltman: That's interesting. Yeah.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: it happens right uh um it's very funny once i have this story that i leverage myself a lot when i was a first year associate at um deutsche bank in london i invested in a in a product in brazil an investment was like timed for had to put money every six months didn't have the money So I was expecting my bonuses and my reimbursements from from from the taxes.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So every six month every year i had a reimbursement of taxes and then I had bonuses. And it worked out. For three years I i i totally leveraged myself, but it was a very good investment.
Joe Waltman: That's great. and So you're, you're using your, your banking bonuses to, to plow into real estate in Brazil and and it, it, that's, that's, that's a good story.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yeah, that's what i i never cashed in. I never used the businesses. I just invested in real estate. In the end, salary was good enough for a single guy, right?
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So...
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um
Joe Waltman: Yeah. Well, this so so it tells a little more of exactly what you're doing with real estate.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yeah, know just just to finish, you ask why? because it was an investment bank, I covered mainly three sectors, financial institutions, which are very linked to to real estate.
Joe Waltman: Yeah. Okay. Sorry.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Real estate itself, and and technology, right? So I have always been involved in real estate. Okay. So what I'm doing today, I i put together a small the ah real estate development company in Portugal.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So have a team of architects and engineers that work with me. We have done a first project in Cascais. If you don't know, Cascais is part of the the Portuguese Riviera, we would say.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: The best city to live in Portugal, in my opinion. um And we did the first project, it went well. We have here a real estate cycle of five years, so it's crazy.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: don't know if you understand what a cycle is, but five years of cycle,
Joe Waltman: No, explain it. Explain it.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yeah, from the moment you decide to purchase the land and sell all your units and close down shop, this takes between four and five years. Okay, so licensing, as we say, permitting the US may take up to three years for consolidated areas. I'm not talking about a rural area that I'm trying to transformed so it's really unfortunately the municipalities here are crazy and very unorganized to be to be honest um so i focus on high-end i say that the the high-end ah reduce a little bit of the risks in portugal because the microeconomics for high-end in portugal are amazing you know i don't think there are but many other places to live as well as you can live in portugal
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And then we have a lot of tax incentives on top of this. So I think it's it's a great, ah it's a good business to be in if you have some patience and some capital to hold. Okay.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um And I would say, I don't know if you know, Joe, but two years ago, I got involved in a startup. um I was invited by um one of the largest um affiliate affiliate marketing mark and affiliate fleet marketing companies in the world, which is actually port is in Portugal, in porto
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: ah ah they are called Clever Advertising. And they wanted to invest and do... the The owners of Clever wanted to do an investment in in another sector.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: ah They wanted to diversify a little bit. They were thinking of insurance. and a former client of mine recommended me to talk to them and I i told them to to open an online brokerage insurance brokerage company
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: they agreed and i'm I'm actually running this business for two years now I have 25% of the business it's called belt you know belt seguros.pt we
Joe Waltman: Wait, so you're operational on this thing? This is like your startup that they that they funded for you? for you
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yeah, they are funding for me for two years now already. We have a team a small team, 12 people, four developers. ah But it's doing quite well. We are still paying to so leave, but we are already number one in Portugal for travel insurance.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: um we are trying to get life insurance, you know, trying to sell life insurance in the Portugal, which is very difficult. And this month is an exciting month because we're opening Spain.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So we'll be launching Spain now.
Joe Waltman: Oh, wow.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: It's a...
Joe Waltman: That's very exciting. So you're so you're you're keeping yourself busy?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Yes, yes. Busy. it It's a lot of fun to be working with 25-year-olds, you know, because that's what they are.
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: My programmer has six his six years of
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: my my main programmer has six years of experience, and he's 28. So it's is super, super interesting, right? Digital marketing. So I'm learning a lot about this, doing networking on this area.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: But it's, yes, i I'm keeping busy with this.
Joe Waltman: Very cool. Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. um So I usually ask one question. i'm not sure if it's a good question or not ah to to conclude these interviews. if If you don't have anything to say, just move on.
Joe Waltman: ah But is there anything you might be able to do to help you know us as your fellow INSEAD batchmates and and what can we do to help you?
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Help you guys. I'm always open to help, but I have a very particular career And
Joe Waltman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: and I'm always always open to, you know, I have i have people that I know, it mainly London and Lisbon on the financial side. So whenever you know, in the if you need any advice on these or any introductions, I can always try to help.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Okay. If you want to talk about real estate, love it. I have a mathematical model in my mind, how it works for development.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: i'm I'm entering now mixed use development development and this is something that I think this has a specific way of working out that that can be amazing.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: So I'm always open to to help, but it's a very open question. So if if you will if you have ah anything more specific to ask how I can help, I'm always open to answer.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Now, how how you can help me? On the startup, I need help. I need to talk to Reshma and people like you, because at some point we're going to go for external capital, most likely at the end of this year.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: And that's not, you know, that's not the type of investors I have worked with in the past. So I'll definitely need help on this. Thank
Joe Waltman: Nice. Well, ah I'm flattered you put me in the same category as Reshma, but that that that that will be noted.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: you.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: you are they You are the interviewer, so, you know, we need to.
Joe Waltman: That's very flattering. Thank you. Thank you. ah Leandro, a very interesting journey. Thank you for the time. I enjoyed catching up.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Thanks a lot for your time, man.
Joe Waltman: Thank you.
LEANDRO ALMEIDA: Bye.
