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More than Medicine Episode 6: Dr Halimah Perez-Torres
27 Plays1 day ago
Born and raised in Melbourne, it took GP and musician Dr Halimah Perez-Torres a journey to Spain (where she met her husband) and back to settle on a career in medicine. Nowadays, Dr Perez-Torres balances a demanding general practice career with family and her passion for music, including writing and releasing her own musical compositions.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
Medical Flyways, the untold journeys of migrant doctors in Australia.
00:00:13
Speaker
Thank you everyone who is listening. We have another episode of More Than Medicine and my guest today is Dr. Halima Perez-Torres. Did get that right, Halima?
00:00:24
Speaker
Yes. And we have had already a bit of a conversation about names, which we will circle back to, but to give you a bit of an introduction, we met as both of us are GPs in Brisbane.
00:00:35
Speaker
Halima had moved from Melbourne and was doing some work with GPs in school project. And then we seem to have bumped into each other a few times in other work contexts, most of the time through social media, but at least once face-to- face to face.
Halima's Musical Journey
00:00:51
Speaker
Halima is also an accomplished musician, something that she's very passionate about. i recall our first guest in this series mentioning that he felt that medicine for him was a bit of a detour from what he actually loved, which was writing.
00:01:08
Speaker
And when he said that, I actually thought of Halima because I felt like that's what described her in some ways as well. Welcome, Halima. Thank you very much, Risti, for having me here this morning.
00:01:19
Speaker
So do you feel that my recollection of you being a musician and then a doctor would have been reasonably accurate? I think yes, to to some degree. Music is something that I do every single day. So there's not a day that goes by that I don't do something music related.
00:01:35
Speaker
Awesome. Now, would you like to share some of your journey with us in terms of how we've ended up having you on this podcast, which is mainly around doctors who have migrated to Australia?
Challenges for International Medical Graduates (IMGs)
00:01:46
Speaker
ah Your journey is slightly different, but ends up in in many similar veins and themes to to kind of resonate with those of us who have come to live in Australia from other countries.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, so my journey was a little bit a little bit different. I am an IMG, but I was born in Melbourne, raised in Melbourne, lived there for most of my life. And I did consider doing medicine when I left school, but I just didn't want to commit to such a long degree.
00:02:13
Speaker
So i ended up doing some travelling. I ended up getting an arts degree in modern languages, and then I moved overseas. met my husband while living in in Spain, in Europe, and ended up staying there.
00:02:27
Speaker
And then after my first daughter was born, all of my, I guess, I just wanted to know things and I just wanted to understand things. And so I started considering going back to back to university.
00:02:40
Speaker
I applied in Spain for the undergraduate medical degree. I got a place. And so I ended up doing my full job. medical degree starting in my late 20s in Spain. And then once my degree was finished, we moved back to to Melbourne.
00:02:53
Speaker
And then, of course, I found myself having to go through all the AMC process, doing my exams, going through the moratorium, trying to find ah work, trying to find an internship because I'd never actually worked overseas.
00:03:05
Speaker
So all of my medical work has been Australian-based. But yeah, it was very, very difficult at the start coming home to Melbourne and not being able to not being able to work. Now, just to kind of check in that those days, was that AMC and the Victorian board or was that, because I understand at some point all the state boards then became what we now know as APRA, or did you have APRA there as well?
00:03:30
Speaker
APRA was there. This was 2011. All right. So fairly. Yeah. yeah yeah and And I recall you mentioning there was ah particular, i can't even remember if was exam course, but like an IMG course that that was run voluntarily by another doctor.
00:03:47
Speaker
I'd never heard of it before. So I think I heard it from you. So do you mind sharing a little bit? Because a lot of people have benefited from that from memory is what I remember. Yeah, I'm not sure if he's running it anymore, but it was Dr. Johannes in in Melbourne and he used to run, i guess, seminars and sessions for IMGs to come and discuss exam preparation and things like that. So um I went along to a few of his sessions which and I had a few chats with him, which were very, very helpful.
Balancing Family and Career
00:04:13
Speaker
He was very supportive, but in the end, I just had to do the exams and do all the hard work to to find a job in Melbourne. And i didn't actually I didn't actually find a job in Melbourne. I found ah job in Canberra, which was, and that was just door knocking.
00:04:28
Speaker
So I wasn't eligible on any of the internship internal applications to apply. So I just had to door knock and I door knocked absolutely everywhere. Like pretty much every day I was sending out emails, calling people, visiting people, visiting the medical workforce units, trying to get a position Initially, I started working as a ward clerk in in Melbourne, which was very, very useful because while I didn't have any language problems, all of my medical terminology was in Spanish.
00:04:55
Speaker
And that just really helped me make that adjustment into talking medicine in in Australia. Yeah. And then I found ah found an internship in Canberra. They were very, very welcoming.
00:05:07
Speaker
But that was at a time when we'd only just settled in Melbourne. My kids were in school. They were relatively settled there. We didn't want to make another move. So we made the decision that I would go to Canberra and my husband would stay in Melbourne with the with the kids.
00:05:22
Speaker
And I commuted on a weekly basis. Yeah, and I think that's, ah again, a story that every time we do record with someone, often these things come up. And this is one common one where, you know, separation from family in many different versions of it seems to be almost a brighter passage of sorts. Well, I wish it wasn't the case, but how do you feel you coped with it? And how do you feel the family coped with it?
00:05:44
Speaker
Like, what do you think of it now? Yeah. At the time, it was very, very difficult because I would catch the bus overnight from Canberra to Melbourne on a Friday night and spend exactly 36 hours with my family and then catch the bus back to Canberra on a Sunday night, ready to start Monday morning.
00:06:02
Speaker
So it was very, very tough at the time. I think my youngest was about five. and the other two were all in primary school. But it was a decision that we made consciously, knowing that it had ah time limit.
00:06:17
Speaker
And then I was able to secure second year position in Melbourne after 14 months in Canberra. And so then then I came back. So I think it was it was very, very tough at the time, but we accepted the decision because we did make that decision consciously as a family.
00:06:33
Speaker
Similar to you, we had, like, I didn't have children at that stage, but we had done our training in different places, my husband and i And I might already have shared this um on the podcast, don't remember. And so the way you describe it is quite accurate. We were very conscious in the decision at the time.
00:06:49
Speaker
We knew that there was an end point. And in some ways, I think that pretty much cemented the thought that I'm not sure we'll want
The Flexibility of GP Work
00:06:56
Speaker
to do this again. for any other obvious reason as well. So I'm gathering that I know that there are some decisions in terms of how you work and what you do in life.
00:07:06
Speaker
For example, your current work is longer than conventional hours, but you you, if I'm right, work fewer number of days than a standard week and, you know, put time towards other things in your week to balance that out as well.
00:07:21
Speaker
am i Am I right in that assumption? Yeah. Yeah, so now, I mean, but even though it was a conscious decision, it doesn't take away from the tears that happened from me, from my kids, from everyone else. Like, it was a really, really tough year. But we just had to put our blinkers on and say, we just need to get through this year.
00:07:37
Speaker
and And we did. And now the situation has completely flipped. So now my main role is working from home. I work for an online emergency department. So I've i've completely flipped from doing a lot, a lot of travel to be able to just come downstairs and open my computer and and go to work.
00:07:54
Speaker
So i feel I feel in some way I've paid my dues and now I'm able to relax a little bit more, but it's taken a long time to get to this point. Indeed. Now, in terms of your journey through medicine, it sounds like as somebody who has had medical students who currently still do, like international medical students who come to Australia as well, I wasn't aware that there was actually a ranking system for who gets internship.
00:08:20
Speaker
and And I'm not sure how many other people would be aware of that within medicine, but I think it's ah I guess it's a preferential kind of hierarchy or ah and and and those who have done medicine outside of Australia and those who are international doctors who come here and do medicine, they generally, it's not a merit-based system, I suppose, is what my mind goes to as well.
00:08:44
Speaker
It's based on on on that and then what's left in terms of places. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's changed anymore, but definitely when I went through the system, there was a ranking system. So I think, I can't remember exactly how it worked, but first were Australian citizens who did their medical degree in Victoria, had first access to the Victorian hospital places, yeah.
00:09:05
Speaker
Correct. And then it went further on down down the list and then it got to the end of non-Australian permanent resident citizens who have done their degree overseas. But there was no credit category for Australian citizens who had done their degree overseas. So I wasn't even eligible to apply and that's why I had to just do door knocking.
Career Choices in Medicine
00:09:22
Speaker
Right. like Okay. I'm not sure what that's like now either, Halima, in that I don't know if that, you know, I suspect at the time when you came, the cohort would have been quite small, but it might have changed now, not that I'm aware of.
00:09:34
Speaker
So when you did land in medicine, what made you choose general practice? I was tossing up between three specialties. So the top three on my list were GP, ONG, emergency medicine.
00:09:49
Speaker
I was working for a time a long time in in women's health and I've always, always maintained a hospital position even when I went into GP land. In the end, I decided that I didn't want to do emergency medicine and I didn't want to do ONG, even though I really like a lot of aspects of both of those specialties.
00:10:11
Speaker
I had some doubts about GP to start with, but within a few months of starting GP, I realised I'd made the right decision. I'd gone back to the hospital system to do a few locum positions on the weekends in ONG and in emergency medicine. And it really solidified to me that I'd made the correct choice in going into GP because it made me realise I did not want to go back full time into ward-based hospital or emergency medicine.
00:10:37
Speaker
And with that, do you think, because in fact, in addition to the advantage of not being on the ward, you're back in the community or in general practice and you still have stayed connected with the hospital system.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, I never left. Yeah, I never left. So I always, i was really almost disturbed by the us versus them mentality from both sides. And I just didn't want to fall into that trap. And so I thought it was really important to maintain some sort of connection and some sort of communication with the hospital system.
00:11:05
Speaker
And I do enjoy the work. There, I just didn't want to do that full-time as my career. So I was very, very happy to go back and do locum work, but I just, I knew I didn't want to do that full-time.
00:11:19
Speaker
And when you, you know, now if we talk about general practice and people talk about the word that gets used the most is flexibility in terms of, it's an interesting word because we don't, I certainly have found when people use it, they don't always mean the same thing.
00:11:33
Speaker
So, ah what like for me, that flexibility has meant having periods when, for other reasons, I haven't worked. But when I do come back, I'm like, you know, full on and doing as many hours as I can. But what does that look like for you? And what does that what did that allow you to do, I suppose, is the other. What are the benefits that it allowed you to So more than flexibility, because if I make a commitment, I make a commitment. So if I'm going to be working nine to five on a Monday, then I can make that commitment to working nine to five. And that's not flexible as far as I'm concerned.
00:12:04
Speaker
But doing GP has given me choices. So my interpretation of flexibility would be that I've got choices, that I can direct my skill set, I can direct my hours and what I want to do with my hours. And GP has definitely given me that because now I feel like I'm in control of what I want to do from a medical perspective and that has opened up huge amount of spaces in my personal life to be able to do more things like music, which is where my passions lie.
Songwriting and Music's Role in Life
00:12:34
Speaker
No, I agree with you. I think we don't always capture the right meaning with single words. like you know And I often use, I guess, autonomy in that context. But like you, I agree, this gives you a lot of choices and allows you to bring other things in. So music, which is one of the things I've enjoyed. And when you share things through social media, i always have a listen and I guess songwriting was the part that I was most fascinated by. it how do you How does one become a songwriter?
00:13:05
Speaker
You become a songwriter by writing. So it's it's it's that simple and that complex. So where did you start? I probably started writing songs about 25 years ago, so a long time ago.
00:13:20
Speaker
i wrote a series of songs and I just sat on them and then I stopped writing. And I waited for inspiration and the inspiration never came. And so almost had writer's block for years. And that's not to say that I wasn't doing other musical things because I've always had a piano in the house. I've always had other instruments. I play multiple different things. Well, try to But the songwriting is it it opens up a whole and other space. And I always knew that that's something that I need to come back to but I but just didn't know how to.
00:13:50
Speaker
And then about three years ago, I stumbled on a songwriting club. It just came across on Facebook or somewhere. And I'm like, I was, okay, I think I need to do this. And so I joined the club and I haven't looked back since.
00:14:03
Speaker
So the club for me has been, the songwriting club that I'm in has been life-changing. Basically, all they do, they give us a prompt every week and then we can write to that prompt or use that prompt as a springboard.
00:14:15
Speaker
It does not have to be a serious song. It does not have to be a finished song. It just has to be a draft. And then we upload it to our little club group every year, every week, and we give each other feedback. And it has been absolutely liberating. So now I feel that i can I would be able to write a song on absolutely any topic that anyone would throw at me.
00:14:33
Speaker
Do you feel that's been a self-taught, I guess, skill? or I mean, I'm probably applying the wrong lens to this as ah as a medical professional and not thinking of it from a more artistic perspective. But what do you end up with? And that's, again, a very, i guess, minimalist way of looking at it.
00:14:50
Speaker
Is it the journey? Is it the experience? Is it all of it? I think it's all of it. So I think with with songwriting, if you write with attachment to the song, you're going to you're going to come across stumbling blocks because there will be too much emotion attached to that song.
00:15:05
Speaker
But if you write with the more that you write, the less attachment that you have to the writing and you just allow the flow to come through, which then sometimes you write something and you look at it and you're like, oh, where on earth did that come from? Like I didn't even realise I was writing those lyrics or I didn't even realise I was writing that that, that music.
00:15:23
Speaker
And it can be even so you come back to it several months later and you understand what you've written on a deeper level and the actual meaning that it has or the meaning that it had for your life at the time, but you weren't conscious of it when you were doing that.
00:15:35
Speaker
But I think as far as skill goes, it's just practice. So if someone said to you, how do you draw? You don't, draw in one day and then put on an exhibition. It's something that you need to practice for months, for years potentially to get that skill set so that you are used to drawing with a pen or drawing with a pencil or painting with watercolours or oils.
00:15:57
Speaker
And I think music and songwriting is exactly the same thing. You just need to practice and you might write a million bad songs or songs that you're not going to do anything with, but each song teaches you something in the songwriting process and then you just build on those skills.
00:16:12
Speaker
And at that point, I'll add that I have to add ah my family. We have got musical instruments. I'm usually the listener, just so everyone understands why I'm finding some of this interesting and slightly alien.
00:16:25
Speaker
and So I'm usually in the audience. And So it sounds very much like something you have to feel like you want to do at a deeper level as well. and And how did you arrive at that? I'm thinking you said it you started 25 years ago. Was there some early childhood experience or some, you know, the nurture side of things that helped?
00:16:44
Speaker
So I think that's as far as songwriting goes, but music I have always done. Like I don't remember a time when I wasn't doing some sort of music. So I had some piano lessons as a child, but not for very long.
00:16:55
Speaker
And then in high school I played the flute and songs But I think it was in high school that I realised that singing really was what I wanted to do. There was always confidence issues there, which is something you just have to work through.
00:17:08
Speaker
And it's something that I've always done. it's always It's something that's so integral to who I am as a person that I can't imagine myself without some sort of musical involvement.
00:17:21
Speaker
And I'm not talking on a professional level. I'm just talking on ah on a personal well-being type of type of level. Like if I'm stressed, I'll sit down at the piano and i'll just play piano scales because I just find them, just the rhythm and the constancy of the scales I find very soothing and very calming. So there will always be something about music in my life, whether that be singing in the car or making up melodies or lyrics, then, yeah, it's something that I'm doing every single day.
00:17:48
Speaker
Do you think it is something, you know, I know that our careers in medicine are very busy and involved and, you know, have ability to pretty much take over a lot in your life.
00:17:59
Speaker
Is that something you would recommend to to those who get into medicine as, you know, is is this ah better way of seeing what we consider work-life balance or whatever you might want to call it?
00:18:12
Speaker
I don't know if I really understand the term work-life balance because for me it's just life and work is a part of that.
Life Integration and Creative Vulnerability
00:18:21
Speaker
i have made spaces to have other things in my life because that's what I need.
00:18:25
Speaker
I think anybody who's going into medicine should have something else in their life, whether that be music or sport or some sort of activity that is non-medicine based because I think that definitely helps.
00:18:39
Speaker
But, yeah, as far as work-life balance goes, for me it's just... I don't know if I've achieved a work-life balance, but I'm happy with all of the aspects in my life at the moment and where they are and the time that I'm spending with work and with my other interests.
00:18:55
Speaker
and And I think I know what you mean in that it's not a fixed outcome that we have to achieve. It's more dynamic than... than that And it can change over time as well. What is your, I know that I've watched you perform and put that out there.
00:19:09
Speaker
I mean, for an artist or anyone in a creative pursuit, it's a, I mean, it was for me too with the podcast. It was thing. nerve-wracking experience to kind of consider that you do, you create something and you just send it out and then you know that what comes back may be nothing as well.
00:19:28
Speaker
ah Do you feel that that's something you got comfortable with and how much of your work currently do you share or produce? How much of your music? I shouldn't call it work. Jeez, I called it work.
00:19:40
Speaker
Music. Yeah. I share only a little bit. So i'm I'm writing every week. I'm playing things every week. I'm trying to go out and sing in public pretty much every week.
00:19:51
Speaker
And so I'm sharing very little. I think the sharing online is is quite difficult and it's always going to be a work in in progress. And it's also a question of not wanting to bombard people every single day with every single little thing that I'm doing in music. But there's a lot of background stuff that does that does go on.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, so i'm I'm not sharing that much, but I do share a little bit and it's more just to practice the sharing without any expectation of any outcome. It's just practicing, uploading and sharing small things.
00:20:23
Speaker
The more you say, the more it sounds like a spiritual experience to me in that it's connected to something. There's a purpose and a reason for it to be in my life and be here. it is part of who I am.
00:20:34
Speaker
And I'm um only saying it because it's just literally dropped in my brain when you describe it that way. Almost feels like a state of being, as as one would say. It is. it's For me, it is a state of being.
00:20:46
Speaker
I think that's a good way of of describing it. And and and ah once a week performing, did you say? Yes, trying to. Okay. what is I mean, I'm very curious now and thinking, should I be in the audience? What does that look like?
00:21:00
Speaker
So at the moment, I'm going to a lot of open mics where I'm singing my originals. I don't do covers. I just sing my original work. And there's a lot of open mics around in Brisbane. So I'm pretty involved in that community at the moment.
00:21:12
Speaker
Hopefully, later on this year, I'll be be releasing some music as well. So that will be the next thing that I've already recorded some songs. And that will be the next thing that that happens, hopefully. Oh, fantastic. So, and for the listeners, is there a particular genre of music that you prefer or you feel you enjoy more?
00:21:29
Speaker
Or, you know, I, again, as somewhat of a non-musician, please tell me more about that. So I guess um singer-songwriter, genre would be more folk. I do a bit of rock folk as well, very introspective.
00:21:44
Speaker
I put a lot of emphasis on lyrics and melody and harmony, but of course I can't do a lot of harmony by myself. But yeah, generally singer-songwriter, folk, folk rock. and And in Brisbane, is I'm going to probably sound very, very poorly informed when I say this, but I know there are pretty big folk music festivals in Queensland.
00:22:07
Speaker
Is that generally the place where you get to see and hear from the big names in that area or do people tend to have, as you said, the open mic in Brisbane? is if someone's i'm I'm thinking more about someone starting in this area, they're a medical professional, particularly somebody who's not, maybe even someone that's come from another country. How do they get involved in any of this? or find the you You said you just happened to stumble on the one songwriting group. but How else do you connect with like-minded people in this space?
00:22:38
Speaker
By searching. How? Okay. Just like anything else you look oh just like Just like everything else, yeah. So I would go on Facebook. I would search for Open Mics in Brisbane. I would search for different type of musical groups that I was interested in.
00:22:51
Speaker
and then I've found a small community here through music lessons as well. And, yeah, you gradually build up community.
Embracing Change and Growth
00:22:59
Speaker
You will never – I don't think – I've moved so much in my life, you never, ever arrive in a place and just walk straight into a community. It's something that you have to work towards and you have to search and you have to try and find your people.
00:23:10
Speaker
ah You said that one sentence in with such ease and it kind of summarises a lot of the experiences that we take for granted as human beings. You know, you you can't just walk into a community and and become part of it.
00:23:23
Speaker
As someone who has moved several times and as someone who is now part of many communities, What do you think people need to consider when they move, whether that's moving countries, moving states, moving into a new area? Like, what do what do you what do you but your where should you set your expectations? What should your aspirations be?
00:23:44
Speaker
What should work? but Where do you set – like, you you can start nowhere, you can expect nothing, and or you can have some expectations. i think I think you need a bit of both. So, I think you need to know why you are moving.
00:23:57
Speaker
and everyone's reasons are going to be different. It may be that because you want to leave somewhere or because you want to go somewhere. So there are the two different, guess. Push the pool, as I call it, I guess. Exactly right.
00:24:08
Speaker
And there may be an element of both in in the moves that you make. The moves might be economical, they might be emotional, there might be lots of other other things involved. So I think the first thing is to be clear why you are moving.
00:24:21
Speaker
then you just have to be open to different experiences because if you, and the same way that we were just speaking now about you can't just walk into a community and expect to be part of that community. You can't just walk it go to a new state or go to a new job and expect to have a position potentially that you would you would want. So, for example, when I first arrived in Australia, I worked i worked as a ward clerk for a year 18 months.
00:24:45
Speaker
So, That had, I knew why I was doing it so that I had that clear in my head and I knew what I wanted to achieve. And so i accepted that role and it was a fine role to do at that point in my life. So, yeah, I think you need to know why you were doing the things and why you're making the choices that you are that you are making.
00:25:05
Speaker
but You're not likely to question it once you've got that clarity at the start is what I'm hearing. Yeah, and I think it's easy to accept situations. Like I've accepted jobs that I've had to travel for. I've accepted jobs that I've had to be away from my family. But at every point, there's been, it's been a conscious choice and a conscious acceptance of the choice, even if I don't particularly like it. But it's been a conscious acceptance of those choices.
Interplay of Music and Medicine
00:25:31
Speaker
but And do you feel that being, and that's probably what I meant in that you knew what the outcomes were that you were seeking at the end of that. So as long as you were getting that, you knew that even though that was not an ideal you know situation, you'd be able to get to the end of that.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yes, 100%. From a ah completely different perspective for those of us that don't know much about folk music. So i when I hear the word, in all honesty, folk music, what my mind goes to immediately is Indian you know folk music, which in in India is ah is such a blend of so many different things.
00:26:05
Speaker
what is folk music yeah it is so What is folk music like for you and in Australia or in the Brisbane Open, Mike? What does that mean? I'm just trying to think of either a singer-songwriter or someone that might familiarise me with what but I should expect to find if I weren't looking.
00:26:20
Speaker
It means that I choose my own adventure and i just do the songs that come to me naturally. Right. Okay. So it's not, then ah see this is the medical brain trying to apply rules to something that doesn't necessarily have to have rules.
00:26:34
Speaker
ah Do you find that and there are people from different backgrounds in that space now? Do you find that primarily those who have, I guess, an Anglo-Celtic background that are in that space at the moment?
00:26:47
Speaker
I think there's a big mix. In the open mics, people can do originals, they can do covers. So there are a lot of people who just want to do covers, which is absolutely fine. There are a lot of people like me who use the open mics to get experience on the stage and to help overcome nerves and stage fright and those type of things as well. So it's very beneficial for that.
00:27:06
Speaker
And it's also... interesting as far as songwriting goes for me because I can have a song at home that I think, oh I like this song and I think this song works. And then you actually take it to a stage at an open mic and you sing it and perform it and it just falls flat and you're like, actually, that song doesn't work in public.
00:27:24
Speaker
And so then you might put it aside and then try and bring something else out. So it's a good way to, ah guess, flex your muscles as far as songwriting goes, as far as performing goes, and you learn something every time you go on stage.
00:27:35
Speaker
I'm going to have to come to one of these to figure out what I'm actually missing out. that there's a huge variety of different types of folk music as well. So you've got your traditional folk music and then you've got more like your singer-songwriter folk music as well. so And world music too. What is that?
00:27:51
Speaker
It's like international. As in any other language and and anything in that domain. So I realised that there was that crossover because my kids sing in a choir and to my surprise they sing a whole range of things including music to acquire music in other languages. So that was a bit surprising for me to begin with. So that's where the question came from. i was thinking, well what is included in there?
00:28:13
Speaker
My question to you is, how far do you feel that, well, next question, is how far do you feel that music has made you a better ah medical professional or a better a doctor in terms of your that professional hat on?
00:28:27
Speaker
I think it goes both ways. So I think medicine has made me a better musician and I think music has made me a better doctor. Medicine has taught me a lot. It's taught me how to listen to people and then I can take those skills and put them into songwriting.
00:28:45
Speaker
I think with music, you reach a certain level of empathy in some regards and you reach a certain level of sensitivity because you're being so vulnerable sometimes with the lyrics that you're writing and exposing yourself and singing in public.
00:28:58
Speaker
It's a very humbling experience. And then when I go back and I see a patient I think that really helps me as well.
00:29:08
Speaker
But in the same regards, like medicine has taught me so much. It's taught me how to be in presence of people. It's taught me how to, like I've seen, like we're doctors, we've seen everything. We've seen people die, we've seen people be born and we've seen everything in between.
00:29:23
Speaker
And to have that breadth of human experience, I feel has definitely helped me as a songwriter and it's definitely helped me as a musician. It feels to me like you've got like this, not sure I'll get the right words. I'm feeling it. I'm not sure I'll be able to describe it. But this kind of sense of wholeness that comes with putting the two together.
00:29:45
Speaker
And there's probably better words than that to describe what you've just tried to capture. In terms of where you see yourself progressing with both these, do you see any challenges in the in the future years? Are there any choice points that might be harder than what the one the ones you've had in the past?
00:30:01
Speaker
I mean, I think life is never going to be without challenges. And I think that's a good thing because we need those moments of challenge, of moments of friction to be able to grow as people.
00:30:12
Speaker
Medicine, I'm really happy with what I'm doing at the moment. I feel really happy in my in my job. And so I'm hoping to continue that for a long time to come.
Conclusion and Acknowledgements
00:30:23
Speaker
In music, challenges, i mean, I still get a lot of stage fright. So that's always going to be something that I'm going to be trying to to work through.
00:30:33
Speaker
And challenges are just taking things to the next step. So I've been recording some music, I'm hoping to relieve some later on this year, that's also going to be a challenge. I hope the challenges never stop. I hope I continue to learn and I hope I continue to grow and I hope I can continue to be able to do what I'm doing at the moment.
00:30:52
Speaker
I've got usually, and I must have admit, no one's quite framed it that way. But yes, all those challenges are going to be opportunities for you as well. I'm sure that's how you view them. I think that's something that we yeah undersell in in in medicine as well, that there's this big leaps of growth through every stage that we have in medicine. And I'm no doubt in music as well.
00:31:13
Speaker
I usually find that when we come towards the end of a conversation, a few thoughts or words have kind of stuck in my brain and I'm wondering if we can do what we call the rapid fire at the end.
00:31:23
Speaker
And I say three words and you respond with whatever comes to your mind. So the first one, as is often the case, IMG. Challenging. Okay. Number two is spirituality.
00:31:38
Speaker
Surrender. Number three is balance. I feel balanced if I've got two feet on the ground and I'm not feeling unstable. Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
It's been absolutely fascinating talking to you. More than anything else, I'm now hopefully looking forward to when this music comes out at the end of the year. and And I'm sure that I will find a way to listen to more of what you're producing, in whether it's open mic or through the ah release of your music. Thank you so much for doing everything you do.
00:32:10
Speaker
in your own way. I think even listening to this has made me feel you know inspired to just sit back and have a think about what states of being I allow myself to be in, not just states of doing that we tend to savour more than anything else.
00:32:23
Speaker
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. At Medical Flyways, we're always on the lookout for inspiring stories from migrant doctors in Australia. If you have a colleague whose stories need to be told,
00:32:36
Speaker
Head to wave.com.au slash podcast. Medical Flyways is recorded on terrible land in Mienjin, Brisbane. This podcast focuses on overseas doctors and their families finding a home in Australia.
00:32:53
Speaker
We acknowledge and thank the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and recognise the continuing connection to lands, waters and community.
00:33:04
Speaker
We pay our respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures and to Elders past, present and emerging.