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Shelby Taylor | Chickapea
79 Plays6 months ago
Pasta night is a family favourite for a lot of us but you’d be surprised to learn that pasta is also good for your mental health—that’s right, pasta has been scientifically proven to make you happier - so we're told.
In this episode of Aisle 42 we talk with Shelby Taylor from Chickapea—a dried pasta and meal kit company that transforms chickpeas and yellow peas into delicious entrees that are high in protein and fibre, and low in fat.
We talk about ingredients, flavours, the importance of texture, and we go behind the scenes of their work in the community, their Bcorp certification and their commitment to sustainability.
Learn more about this amazing pasta and where to buy it at https://chickapea.ca/.
Get the scoop on who makes this podcast, and more importantly why, at https://www.ethicalfoodgroup.com/podcast.
Here’s a summary of this episode:
Introduction and Product Praise:
Corwin Hiebert begins the interview by expressing his admiration for Shelby Taylor's chickpea-based pasta, which his family loves.
Ideal Grocery Store Vision:
Shelby envisions a future grocery store where healthier, less processed foods are the norm and not separated into special sections.
Product Ingredients and Changes:
Initially made with chickpeas and lentils, the pasta has switched to using yellow peas for a texture closer to traditional pasta while maintaining high nutritional value.
Positive Feedback from Kids:
Shelby shares excitement about the positive feedback from kids and institutional spaces like daycares, highlighting the importance of familiar texture and taste.
B Corp Certification Challenges:
Shelby discusses the challenges and rewards of maintaining their B Corp certification, focusing on sustainability and the complexities of sourcing organic ingredients while keeping products affordable.
Farms for Change Program:
The Farms for Change program supports regenerative farming and supplies nutritious food to low-income communities, with significant donations from Shelby's company.
Women-Owned Business:
Shelby acknowledges the difficulties and inspiration of being a women-owned business, particularly in raising capital and maintaining certification.
Sustainable Packaging Choices:
The company prioritizes sustainability with recyclable cardboard boxes and small plastic windows to showcase their product, despite the challenges.
Market Presence:
Shelby lists various major Canadian grocery stores where their pasta can be found, reflecting on the growth and market acceptance of their product.
Commitment to Quality:
Despite the challenges, Shelby emphasizes their commitment to providing healthy, nutritious food and the importance of transparency and sustainability in their business practices.
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Transcript
Introduction: Pasta's Surprising Mental Health Benefits
00:00:00
Speaker
This is aisle 42. Pasta Knight is a family favorite for a lot of us, but you'd be surprised to learn that pasta is also good for your mental health. That's right, pasta has been scientifically proven to make you happier. So I'm told. And if that's a mess, then I'd rather live in ignorant bliss.
Guest Introduction: Shelby Taylor & Chicopee's Mission
00:00:23
Speaker
In this episode of IL-42, I talk with Shelby Taylor from Chicopee, a dried pasta meal kit company that transforms chickpeas and yellow peas into delicious entrees that are high in protein and fiber and low in fat. We talk about ingredients, flavors, the importance of texture, and we go behind the scenes of their work in the community, their B Corp certification and their commitment to sustainability. I hope you enjoy listening in. Here's Shelby from Chicopee.
Vision for Healthier Grocery Stores
00:00:52
Speaker
Shelby, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. And that's because I fell in love with your product about two years ago. I served it to my family. I didn't tell them what I was serving them. I didn't tell them that this was not their normal pasta. And they fell in love with it. And there's a lot of things I love about what you make and how you make it and why you make it.
00:01:13
Speaker
But before we get into that, we'll kick things off with I don't know if it's an easy question that sure could be an interesting one. And that is if you were to imagine the perfect grocery store of the future, what would that look like for you?
00:01:27
Speaker
Oh, wow. I was expecting to just say thanks for having me. The perfect grocery store. Actually, I think that's quite easy. I think a grocery store where, you know, doesn't have separate sections or aisles for health food. You know, we're like, I think I'd like to go into a grocery store where you're
00:01:45
Speaker
junk foods or you're like highly processed foods are more the exception than the norm and we're not seeing like smaller sections for and and this is happening I think you know we're kind of starting to move in this direction we're better for you is taking over more of the store footprint but we still have a long way to go where you know you're seeing
00:02:06
Speaker
steal your conventional foods, take up most of the footprint of the store and natural foods being their own little section and also kind of intimidating to people that are just trying to start to explore healthier diets. So I'd love to see a grocery store that was generally
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, better for you food options and have that be more normal and with, you know, like your chips in a special section. I mean, I still love chips. That's, that's right. I have nothing against chips. I just don't want them taking up two aisles of a grocery store. Well said and very fair. And I love chips too. It's one of my favorite snacks. As you can see behind me, my humble potato chips close to my desk. I've never had those.
00:02:52
Speaker
Oh, they're delicious. They're baked lightly seasoned. They're not flavor bullies and they're fully organic, which is very rare in the chip pile. It definitely is. I like that. They're not flavor bullies. Yeah, exactly. So your product, can you just share with listeners, like what is your product?
Ingredient Innovation: Switching from Lentils to Yellow Peas
00:03:11
Speaker
What, some of the ingredients you have in your product, obviously with the name, you know, there's obviously some chickpeas involved. Uh, so I'd love for you to share a little bit about what you make and why you make it.
00:03:22
Speaker
Sure. Our product is chickpea and it's a line of pasta that is made or has been made with chickpeas and lentils. We've actually just made a little change in core and I'm not sure if you know about this, but we've actually just switched out the lentils in our pasta for yellow peas. And this is starting to roll out on shelves over the next couple of months. And we're really excited about this change because it has taken what I think, you know, you were so kindly said, it's a pasta that
00:03:51
Speaker
your family and other families have come to really love and incorporate into their weekly routines. And it's just taken it that one notch closer to that traditional pasta texture and bite more than anything. So we've maintained all the same nutritionals. Yellow peas are super nutritious, high in fiber, high in protein. So our pasta has 20 grams of protein per 85 gram serving, which is equal to a serving of chicken or fish.
00:04:21
Speaker
And with the yellow peas added in, it really tastes so much just like traditional white pasta and even now has that springy bite that you get that's been really hard to get with like a more bean-based pasta. So it cooks a bit easier, digests a bit easier, so foams a bit less while keeping all the same nutritional qualities. So we have a line of that pastas. So again, it's just chickpeas and yellow peas. There's no other ingredients. It's organic, gluten-free, non-GMO, kosher,
00:04:50
Speaker
vegan, pretty much all of it. And then we also have just launched a new line of one pot meals, which takes that same pasta and pairs it with a really delicious, creamy, cheesy seasonings that you think of more like your sort of grown up mac and cheese, if you will. So full size pasta noodle with a seasoning pack and you make it just
00:05:12
Speaker
like mac and cheese. So you mix it with milk and butter or your milk and butter alternatives and you have like a delicious like elevated grown-up mac and cheese dish.
00:05:21
Speaker
I love it when I saw that one pot meal approach. I got really excited because I feel like one of the opportunities we have in the category that we're in around healthy and sustainable food, I think that there's a real bias towards things like snacking, which we all love. We just talked about snacking, right? We love snacking.
00:05:43
Speaker
I think working into the family meal into a regular meal location food that's better for you food that's healthier food that has less impact on the planet to make it is a really important piece of the puzzle.
00:05:58
Speaker
And i think your your meal kits actually are really remarkable and i love that you went for the sort of that spice pack or herb pack or flavor pack instead of it being like a astronaut pouch of you know oils and liquids and gums and all the other things that tend to go into those things to keep them a shelf stable you're like well you can add the liquid but here's the flavor it'll just come back to
00:06:21
Speaker
The protein content of your pasta, it solves a meal problem for a lot of families because it's that normally that chicken cooking or the meat cooking that takes time. My wife is petrified of anything raw. The Lysol comes out and the hazmat suit comes out when there's raw meat around.
00:06:42
Speaker
So the idea that she can cook a nutritious meal that has a healthy amount of protein in it, but yet doesn't require that, for her, is a real great win. But when you talked about mouthfeel and that changed to yellow pea, was that what it was, yellow pea? I'm excited about that because I think that mouthfeel and texture, these things are a big
00:07:02
Speaker
piece of the puzzle when it comes to families enjoying it and children really getting excited about it. If it's different than they're used to, then integrating something into their diet that's really hard, harder to chew or is just so different is difficult. So I think it's a great play that you guys have made.
00:07:20
Speaker
Thank you. You know, we have just a recent experience that really speaks to that as well as we just got our new passive formula into this supplier who basically makes like tons of meals for daycares across Canada. So they supply the meals into them and they took on this new formula and we are eagerly waiting for the feedback because we know that to your point, kids,
00:07:42
Speaker
are the greatest feedback that you can get because it's all incredibly honest and generally they're very used to eating pasta on a very regular basis and the feedback was so phenomenal that most kids didn't even notice a couple kids told their parents about it and their parents were excited about it being on the menu and having this healthier protein option when their kids won't eat like won't eat meat or anything like that so that was super exciting for me and i've been trying to get it into
00:08:09
Speaker
like more institutional spaces like day cares for a long time so I was like yes this is exactly the feedback we're looking for and you know pasta like many meals that you grow up with that's like a comfort food like every bit of that matters you know like the texture
00:08:26
Speaker
of a pasta dish is like what takes you back, you know, my, my hands down, my comfort food, like when I'm sick or sad or had a long day, like is always going to be spaghetti. And, you know, it's, it's just not going to be the, that same feeling. If you're like, Oh, I got a chalky texture here or hard bite, it's, it's not going to bring you back to that feeling. And that's what we really wanted to provide to people.
00:08:51
Speaker
I love it. That's so great. Let's take a moment and talk about transparency in
The Challenges of B Corp Certification
00:08:56
Speaker
your business. You are a B Corp certified and you've been B Corp certified now for, is it three years, four years? Since 2018. So even longer. That's amazing. So what's that experience been like for your team to maintain that certification and to lean into some of the hard places of sustainable food making?
00:09:18
Speaker
That's a great question. I don't know if anyone would think it was easy, but it's quite challenging as you grow a company. It was a little bit easier in the early days when you have one manufacturer that you work with and a small supply chain and a small staff. As the company grows, we grow into bigger spaces.
00:09:41
Speaker
obviously trying to maintain our cost to customers and all those things, it's very challenging. So we are constantly looking through our suppliers in terms of what their environmental practices are, how does that feed into our value system, switching from being in office to having a team fully remote in terms of that sort of social piece around your team has been challenging as well because
00:10:07
Speaker
trying to make sure that you're keeping your team engaged and doing things as a team and being that place to work that you want to be is a lot harder from a remote perspective but we work really hard at it and we care a great deal so i'd say that that portion of the business has helped us to attract.
00:10:25
Speaker
great hires, it helps us to keep people engaged. And it constantly sort of keeps me on my toes as a business owner and making sure that we're making decisions that are not just good for our business, but, you know, good for all of our stakeholders.
00:10:40
Speaker
I love it. And the work that you guys have done, and I've seen, I guess through social over the last little while, just the work that your team is doing in food centers. You mentioned the school programs already for kids, but for food centers, you've done a lot of work there.
00:10:59
Speaker
What has it been like for your team to, I mean, bringing product to a food center is one thing, but being a reliable partner and sort of being on the inside of some of these food centers, what's the experience been like there?
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah, I love this portion of our business. The food centers are like the community food centers across Canada.
Supporting Community Food Centers
00:11:19
Speaker
And the way that we have supported them is by partnering with them and this regenerative organic farm up in Cremore that grows organic regenerative vegetables. It was the first certified regenerative farming Canada for vegetables. And the way that we supported them is by providing donations that allow
00:11:39
Speaker
the food centers to purchase this fantastic regenerative produce and supply it to all of the sort of low-income communities that those food centers serve. So it's getting really high quality, nutritious, delicious food. I think to people in communities who really need it the most. And that has been a great experience because it feels very hands-on. So we call that program Farms for Change.
00:12:02
Speaker
And up at this farming cream are every year they have this huge concert and sells out within minutes in the house and fantastic band playing some of the best restaurants from Toronto come up and like a thousand people on this on this farm all in support of this farm for change program so we are.
00:12:22
Speaker
the biggest sponsor of that. And I bring my whole team up and we all go for the event and get to enjoy that. So it's also a way to engage the team and get them excited and continue to educate them about what we're doing from that standpoint as well. So it's been, you know, I think we've, we've donated about $312,000 farms for change since we started with that program. And for a small company, it's substantial and, and meaningful and certainly meaningful to my team as well.
00:12:52
Speaker
And a lot of your ingredients are organic or all of them. I'm not quite sure what the ratio is now that you've got the spice packs in there, but organic is not easily done and it's hard to lean into it and stay there. And you even said it like in order to keep prices down, it can be hard to go into the organic.
00:13:13
Speaker
part of the supply chain and kind of keep doing that. So when you're sourcing new ingredients, do you feel like you have a lot of access to a lot of organic partners or are you looking at needles in a haystack?
00:13:27
Speaker
There are organic partners. It depends a great deal on what the product is. So to your point, like our pasta line is certified organic. Our one pot line is not certified organic. It is non-GMO. But it is like the pricing on organic dairy, for example, like that seasoning pack that goes in would put it on shelf at a price that just would not be accessible to people, especially in this market that we're in. And we know that our customers are already struggling with the prices of groceries.
00:13:56
Speaker
as it is. So it is really making some decisions on we go organic wherever we can, where we can't, we always focus on the cleanest ingredients, you know, the most nutritious and real wholesome ingredients all the time. We look at all of our suppliers and make sure that they fit into our value chain.
00:14:15
Speaker
Like I mentioned, so it is something that's really important to us, but it is not all of our products are organic because there's a need for products like our one pot meals like they hit that mark with something quick easy healthy meal, but it's organic sometimes does make it not accessible for many many customers who require that
00:14:38
Speaker
And our goal is to get healthy, nutritious food to as many people as possible and focus on organic wherever we can. So it's a challenge and making the decision to have a product that wasn't organic was a personal struggle for me and for where our business started and where we came.
00:14:56
Speaker
It's really thinking about our customer first and our pasta will always be organic. So if that's something that's really important to someone, you can always pair our pasta with any organic sauce of your choice.
00:15:11
Speaker
I appreciate the way you said that. That's a good share. I think it's that level of transparency that consumers are craving and they want to know what they're eating and they want to know how it's being made. And I think that that your commitment to organic pasta as the iterations and the different, you know, product lines kind of come and go. I think that's a remarkable play that you guys are doing.
00:15:36
Speaker
The women owned is a theme that I feel like is starting to get a little bit more traction lately. And I think given that the United Nations 17 goals of sustainability kind of highlights inequality and business inequality and entrepreneurship and obviously in things like, and on the business side of the, you know, investment and venture capital. I mean, these things, there's a long way to go when it comes to women owned businesses, getting the support they need. What's it been like for you and for your team?
00:16:06
Speaker
When being women-owned, is it creating opportunities? Is it creating challenges? What's that landscape been like for you guys? It's a little bit of both.
Women-Owned Business Certification & VC Funding Challenges
00:16:15
Speaker
I mean, we've only ever been women-owned, and I've only ever been a woman. Sometimes when people ask those questions, I'm like, I'm not quite sure how to compare it. I think there's 100% come up against challenges.
00:16:29
Speaker
You know, when I first pitched this business, I went around to all these angel investment groups around Ontario. And it was before I even had a passive prototype, I was pitching an idea, asking people to invest in the business because it was such major startup costs for this business. And I mean, in all of those angel groups, a couple hundred people, I think there were three women sitting in the room. So from the investment standpoint, it's
00:16:59
Speaker
It's actually a very big challenge to continue to keep woman-owned certification because of the way that even the woman-owned bodies, and Corinne, you can take what you want from this. I'll start this over a little bit because I don't want to be seen as like ranting at all because we are a woman-owned business, but that also means that I
00:17:20
Speaker
If we're going to continue to raise capital in the business, I really have to go after VC firms and investment partners that have women partnership. And that's like 1%, like 1% of VCs are women. And for women owned certification.
00:17:36
Speaker
they don't include institutional capital as 50% women owned. So to give you an example, EDC, Export Development Canada, is a partner of ours. So they're a government agency, which is actually run 51% women. They will not include their investment as 50% women owned.
00:18:00
Speaker
But they won't remove it from the equation, which means that they're actually capturing at us 100% male owned. The reason why I share this is because it's a very difficult certification to maintain in itself. And the opportunities are few, but the few that they are
00:18:20
Speaker
Can be pretty great you know there are certain partners like walmart is really good example in which the woman out actually matters to them and it does see some benefits for you and retail some retailers you may not get listing fees so you know for anyone.
00:18:36
Speaker
Listening a listing fee is like rent that you pay to have shelf space and most people wouldn't you know, really know about that but the reason why We continue to fight to have the certification is not so much from that business beneficial standpoint it's more so to to try to set an example and encourage other women so
00:19:02
Speaker
For me that's the point and that that is also why I'm sharing with you like how challenging it is to maintain it the benefits business wise are are not really there to Maintain that I'm from my perspective and and others may disagree but it's more to Basically say like if I can do it you can do it You know there are big companies that are owned by women and run by women and like we only have one
00:19:29
Speaker
We only have one male on our staff. We'll say 1.25 because we have a fractional CFO who's also a guy.
00:19:40
Speaker
It's important to me and I'm going to continue to fight to keep it as long as I can. And, you know, when the certification, if the certification disappears, it doesn't mean that I won't continue to, you know, speak for women in business or try to set that example.
00:20:01
Speaker
wonderfully said and very candid of you. And I really appreciate that. I mean, I have conversations around entrepreneurship and women with my daughter, my 10 year old daughter, we talk about it fairly often. And she loves hearing me talk about the people I know in food. And she gets way more interested if I'm talking about a girl that's running a food company. She leans into those. She doesn't care about stinky smelly boys doing things.
00:20:27
Speaker
because every boy is stinking and smelling when you're a 10 year old girl. But it is one of those areas that I think we don't talk about it very well as a general food industry. And I think given that the opportunities for leadership and for setting an example for others, I think is really important. So I just wanted to say thank you for leaning into that area, leaning into that the way you have. It's wonderful and really appreciate it.
00:20:55
Speaker
Thank you. I wanted to ask about your packaging. Now it isn't that uncommon in the past aisle to have cardboard packaging. However, I feel like in this modern day of food making, it's actually becoming more rare in that a lot of new products go into standing pouches.
00:21:16
Speaker
Nothing wrong with standing pouches. However, your boxes are fully recyclable, which I think is a remarkable thing. And so talk to us about
Sustainability Focus: Recyclable Packaging
00:21:26
Speaker
your packaging. What has it been like to design and all this manufacturing around cardboard and paper packaging? What's that landscape been like for you on the recyclability of everything?
00:21:40
Speaker
It's a sort of a decision that we made early on. I think for about four weeks we went into these pouches very, very early on. And it was just like a very, our very first run went into these little plastic pouches. Cause like you said, it kind of felt like what was happening at the time, but it just, I mean,
00:22:00
Speaker
Not even just from a sustainability standpoint, but they don't stand up on shelves. You can't communicate properly with them. And yes, they're just going into the landfill and into the garbage. So there's really no reason in my mind to have that type of packaging, at least not for our product.
00:22:18
Speaker
There are even bags, you know, we have worked with an Italian manufacturer in the past that even the bags that they use are like more like craft paper and they're fully recyclable. Like there's just so many options out there that I don't feel, you know, it's really necessary and for a pasta product. It's also not rare for a pasta product to be in a box. So, you know, you, Borilla, I think really,
00:22:41
Speaker
set the trend with boxes for pasta, which is rare for an Italian manufacturer. So in Italy, like pastas and bags, but they're mostly in those nice craft bags, not necessarily plastic. So it's kind of been kind of set the standard for the North American industry. People look for their pasta in boxes. It is a more expensive option for sure. But like as a as a B Corp, you know, environmental sustainability is super important to us.
00:23:11
Speaker
We do have customers that even write to us about the little window in the front of our package. It's a very small window because there's this thin layer of plastic so that you can see the product inside. We've gone back and forth internally many times.
00:23:29
Speaker
Could we consider removing the window of course our one pot doesn't have it cuz it has a photo of the product with the sauce on it but we have decided to keep that window because the biggest question people have about our pasta like. Does it look like regular pasta like will my kids eat this and because we're in a new.
00:23:50
Speaker
a newer category in that kind of space it's really important for people to see it but our goal is. Take for to grow this category so much and grow so much brand record recognition that eventually we can eliminate the window entirely and people will just know know what this past day is. Yeah i think when it comes to trying your product for the first time i think.
00:24:12
Speaker
understanding what it looks like is actually, I agree. That's a really big piece of the puzzle because alternative pastas, we've all, you would have done this more than me, but you buy something because you're curious and then you open it up, you put it into the pot of water and it's brown and murky and kind of, it's kind of grainy looking and you're like, oh, this is going to taste extra healthy. And you're a little bit worried and you're like, there's not enough butter to solve this problem. So I think,
00:24:41
Speaker
on shelf being able to look at and go, oh, that looks like pasta. That looks like what I want to eat. And it looks like what I've eaten before. It's just a little different. So I totally get that challenge. I think it's an important one. I don't think there's many problems, but butter can't solve though, by the way. Butters, just like Jamie Oliver says, when in doubt, add a second pat of butter. Yes.
00:25:05
Speaker
I buy your product at Superstore. Is it great Canadian? Is that what it is? Canadian Superstore? And often I do it through my Instacart because it's a helpful thing once in a while. But where else can people find your product on shelf or online?
00:25:23
Speaker
So we're at, in Canada, we're at every major grocery store. We're in Loblaws, Toby's, Metro. We're usually in Costco. We're out of there for a couple months right now, but most, many, many of our customers buy our spirals in a big box at Costco. And we're in your Whole Foods, goodness me, Longos, you know,
00:25:44
Speaker
We're in most stores now, which is truly incredible given where we started and no one had even heard of pasta made with chickpeas before and now it's quite a staple in the past aisle.
00:25:59
Speaker
You are a leader. I'd never heard of chickpea pasta before you. And I don't know if I've even paid attention beyond if there's competitors making chickpea. I don't care. You guys have it. You're in our home already. So thank you for doing this. It's been really great to chat and really appreciate all that you and your team are doing for people and the planet. Thank you. Thanks for having me on the show, Corin.
Conclusion & Call to Action
00:26:24
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this episode of IL-42. To learn more about everything Shelby and her team are up to, and most importantly, how and where you can easily find their delicious pasta, go to chickapee.ca. From all of us here at Ethical Food Group, we're glad you're listening and sharing this podcast. That's it for me. I'm Corwin Hebert, and I'll see you in the future.
00:26:57
Speaker
you