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Dr. Sylvain Charlebois | Dalhousie University
49 Plays3 days ago
Here we go! We’re kicking off Season 2 of Aisle 42 with none other than The Food Professor! I chatted with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois—a leading voice in Canadian agriculture and food policy. He advises all levels of government, he ruffles feathers and he has a real knack for uncovering the broken bits of our food system.
In this episode, we dive into the complexities of food prices, the intersection between sustainability and consumer demand, industry drivers for CPG businesses, the promises and pitfalls of carbon taxes, supply chain challenges, the consumer's role in fuelling innovation, and the fascinating future of food tech. We even learn about his obsession with poutine!
Here's the link to The Food Professor Podcast and the Canada Food Price Report 2025.
Note: If you work in the CPG industry and you give a damn about people and our planet, and the future of the grocery store then I’d love to get my team to help you scale more sustainability… faster. I’m easy to find on LinkedIN or you can email me directly by visiting ethicalfoodgroup.com. I’ll see you in the future.
Here's a summary of this interview:
Food System Focus: Sylvain emphasizes the importance of centering the consumer in the food system to drive innovation and improve the agri-food sector.
Podcast Dynamics: Corwin appreciates the dynamic nature of Sylvain and Michael’s podcast, particularly during on-location recordings, which bring vibrant discussions.
Poutine Nation Book: Sylvain wrote a book on the global phenomenon of poutine, aiming to honor its regional roots and explore its unexpected global popularity. A documentary on poutine is also in the works.
Food Price Report: The 15th Food Price Report highlights inflation and the differences between countries like Ireland and Canada, emphasizing supply chain discipline and competitiveness.
Grocery Code of Conduct: While the adoption of the grocery code by Canada’s "big five" grocers is a positive step, Sylvain expresses skepticism about its immediate impact and views it as a work in progress.
Carbon Tax Debate: Sylvain critiques the lack of analysis on the carbon tax’s impact on food prices and food security. He suggests shifting the focus toward decarbonizing markets and incentivizing industries through systems like cap and trade.
Consumer Demand for Sustainability: There is significant, albeit fragmented, consumer demand for sustainability in food. However, industries and governments need to make a stronger case and implement effective policies to harness this demand.
Food Security in Canada: Sylvain identifies logistics and supply chain resilience as the most significant threats to Canada's food security, advocating for better infrastructure and integration across regions.
Emerging Food Technologies: Cellular agriculture, particularly cultured meat, intrigues Sylvain. He notes global advancements in this area, contrasting them with Canada’s slow progress.
Sustainable Innovation Challenges: Sylvain discusses the challenges industries face, including reconciling environmental goals with profitability, addressing obesity, and responding to the growing impact of pharmaceuticals like Ozempic on consumer behavior.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Season 2
00:00:00
Speaker
This is aisle 42.
00:00:07
Speaker
Here we go.
Food Systems and Government Advisory
00:00:08
Speaker
We're kicking off season two of aisle 42 with none other than the food professor. I chatted with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois, a leading voice in Canadian agriculture and food policy. He advises all levels of government, he ruffles feathers, and he has a real knack for uncovering the broken bits of our food system.
Food Economics and Sustainability
00:00:26
Speaker
In this episode, we dive into the complexities of food prices, the intersection between sustainability and consumer demand, industry drivers for CPG businesses, the promises and pitfalls of carbon tax, supply chain challenges, the consumer's role in fueling innovation, and the fascinating future of food tech. We even learn about his obsession with poutine. Bet you didn't see that coming. So let's jump
The Non-Political Approach of The Food Professor Podcast
00:00:51
Speaker
in. The future of food starts now.
00:00:55
Speaker
Sylvain, I'm so glad that we're able to connect. I love listening to you and Michael on your Food Professor podcast. It's a great way to catch the food-related headlines. Though, I think I'm going to start a drinking game every time Michael says, we're not a political podcast, but I think I'm going to slam a shot of gin. You know the good kind. and That's so true. Absolutely. we try i mean mean it it It requires discipline because when you talk about food,
00:01:24
Speaker
agriculture, you really get into the politics quite quickly. So I'm not surprised. I actually was quite clear. I did not. But five years ago, when we actually approached me to start the podcast, I did tell him, I don't want a political podcast. There's enough of them and I don't want to get too political. I just want to focus on issues. And so that's why he repeats it all the time.
00:01:47
Speaker
Oh, he should just put it on a sign behind him or just have a little ah button that he has to push.
Consumer-Centric Food System
00:01:52
Speaker
Exactly. You know, I really love those on location ones that you guys do like at the coffee conference and other places and spaces. Are you guys going to do more on location stuff in the in the future? ah Yeah, absolutely. We do it when we can because I mean.
00:02:06
Speaker
You probably sense that when you listen to our podcast when we're actually face-to-face, it it's just so easy to get into heated discussions and it's much easier than being on like on camera or on screen. So we try to do it as much as we can. We do it, I guess, two or three times a year right now. But he's in Toronto, I'm in Halifax, and we both travel quite a bit.
00:02:32
Speaker
So it's always tough, but sometimes actually once I think it happened once that we actually ended up being in the same city at the same time. So you never know. We may actually cross back again somewhere.
Poutine Nation: Book and Documentary
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, you guys got great dynamics, which is awesome. So I want to kick things off with a warm up question for you. So if you could look into your crystal ball and you could redesign the food system of the future, what's the one change that would inspire you the most?
00:03:00
Speaker
I would say, i mean without a doubt, putting the consumer in the middle. The consumer ah has to be the conversation starter for anything. And we say we do it, we say we think about the consumer, but we don't really, especially from a policy perspective. Every week I'm reminded of the fact that consumers don't really matter as much. So put the consumer at their center of it all and work your way back. What's really neat about consumers is that, well, the market is so fragmented.
00:03:32
Speaker
Consumers are looking for different things for different reasons and that leads to innovation. And so that's always great. I need to embrace those opportunities to actually grow the agri-food sector. That's the one thing I would change. Great answer. You win the prize.
00:03:48
Speaker
Hey, good stuff.
Upcoming Food Price Report and Ireland's Inflation
00:03:49
Speaker
So I was surprised to discover that not that long ago, you wrote a book about something very Canadian. You traced the global phenomenon around our beloved French fry obsession. You wrote Poutine Nation. I did not expect to see that title from from someone like you. You got to give us the scoop. What inspired you to write a foodie book? And if you were to write another one, what would it be? Maple syrup, Caesar cocktails? don airir who knows yeah I must say, first of all, I wrote eight academic books, and I was getting tired of writing books nobody read, so you kind of want to write something. And at the same time, I want you to write a book for me. It is the only book written in the first person. There's a lot of me in that book. And I was traveling all over the world, and
00:04:39
Speaker
At the beginning, I thought, why don't I go out and and have a poutine and everywhere I was in the world, it was so easy to get a poutine and I thought, how can this disgusting, unhealthy dish can be available anywhere around the world? like What happened? what How can this dish be known everywhere around the world. and I was really the hypothesis that I started with. and Of course, I am originally from the region where poutine was invented. and so That's why I wanted to honor the dish. and it is It is one of the few dishes known around the world that came from a rural setting. Poutine was actually coming from regions. It wasn't created in an urban center or some sort like Toronto or
00:05:27
Speaker
Napoli with ah pizza or Hombour and Amberger. Actually, I'm just like half an hour away from Hombour. That's their pride, right? But Hombour is a big city. It's a big port city. so But Warwick is like 5,000 people and Rommelville is like about 50,000 people. So it's really something that we need to be proud of, I think.
00:05:50
Speaker
I love it. It's so good. Well, I haven't tracked down a copy of it yet, but I will. And by the way, some news for you. I've been approached by a filmmaker to actually do a documentary on poutine next year. No way. Yep. You're channeling your inner Stanley Tucci right now. That's very good. I love it. Probably. I don't know. Like I think he makes more money than I do. But anyways,
00:06:14
Speaker
Well, that could be true. The title reminded me of the economist Don Thompson from York University. he wrote He sort of did a financial forensics on fine and contemporary art auctions in the fashion industry. sort A very almost unlikely person to kind of go into those areas. So if you're writing about poutine and next ah yeah maple syrup, I don't know what you got cooking. But anyway, a documentary. That's awesome. Love it.
00:06:40
Speaker
Very cool. So ah we're recording this, what feels like on the eve, like minutes before your 15th food price report comes
Grocery Code and Carbon Tax
00:06:49
Speaker
out. So I'm looking forward to reading that. I'm wondering if I should curl up by the fire and a cup of hot chocolate and read it, or should I be in my basement with a bottle of bourbon? I guess I'll have to wait until it comes out, but so don't answer that one.
00:07:02
Speaker
I think chocolate is going to be more expensive than bourbon, I can tell you. I think you're right. I think we should all invest in chocolate. but One of the things that struck me about, I think it was your last report, was the apparent success of Ireland. A 12% drop in foodation if food inflation over there. What are they doing in Ireland? And why can't we do that in Canada? Well, I mean, every country has its own dynamic. It's hard to compare two countries. But often we do just to understand if we can learn from another country. In Ireland, I'd say that there is quite a bit of discipline up the food chain compared to Canada, I would say. And I would say the same thing about the UK. The UK went through a lot with Brexit, but i mean I don't believe there is such a thing as monopolies in the food industry. You and I can start a grocery store if you we we want.
00:07:54
Speaker
It's just like right now you have a few players really imposing their rules and laws on everyone else. because like For example, if you you want to sell a ah juice a new juice to Loblaw, you have to pay Loblaw $100,000 for example. And the following year, if Loblaw actually realizes that your juice is very popular,
00:08:17
Speaker
Well, they're going to charge you half a million dollars in listing fee to actually have the right to do business with Loblaw. And of course you as a juice manufacturer will raise your prices. That tends to actually bring inflation up as a result. I call it supply chain bullying, but that's really what it is. And people don't understand why it's just PepsiCo or Nestle that pays for that. But that impacts inflation eventually and it impacts retail prices as well. And so countries like Ireland and the UK have actually mastered the ability to control that bullying up the food chain. Even though it's not seen by the public, they do a much better job and that's how you can actually enhance competition in the country.
00:09:00
Speaker
yeah So let's talk about Canada's grocery code of conduct for a moment. The aim there is to increase trust and fairness and collaboration, which all sounds great. My question to you is, will it work? Is this document going to be a guiding light of hope or and actually make food stuff more accessible and more affordable? Well, I saw the first version of the code, and which I thought was pretty exciting because you can feel that with that code, they they would actually impose a lot of discipline on companies like Loblaw and Walmart. And frankly, those are the two companies that need to tone it down a little bit to allow manufacturers to cut through all the the noise. But the latest edition, the last edition was really different. And so my answer to you is is that I don't know. I mean, the fact that all five, the big five, Costco, Walmart, Metro, Sobeys, and Loblaw,
00:09:55
Speaker
They've all signed on this code of conduct is is a good step. It's a step in the right direction, but will it work?
ESG's Impact on Trust
00:10:02
Speaker
I don't know. We're going to soon find out any year or so if it works. um My guess is that there's it's a work in progress. I see it as a work in progress. At least we're talking about it. If five years ago you were told me that that we would be talking about the code of conduct in the media, I would say you're crazy, but it did happen. So you never know.
00:10:23
Speaker
All right, well, here's let's have some hope for it, I think. yeah Now, to the ah less hope, let's talk about carbon tax. it's it's driving It's driving up food prices, it's going to continue to drive up food prices, and the rebates are not likely to find their way to those impacted the most. Is there any silver lining in this carbon tax program, or is it doomed greenwashing that's just going to destabilize our food system?
00:10:52
Speaker
So I'm not an environmental scientist. I can't comment on the functionality of the carbon tax, on whether or not it's actually working. It's actually reducing gas emissions. Even Ottawa is not looking into that. I mean, that's kind of a flawed policy in the first place. It's ironic, isn't it? If you actually are penalizing industry and building this huge black box that will eventually cost you money or cost us money,
00:11:21
Speaker
You may want to assess whether not the policy actually works, and we're not seeing that. My concern from day one with the carbon tax is that the government never actually bothered to look at how implementing a carbon tax would actually compromise Canada's food security and food affordability that as well for consumers. They never looked into it, so we did.
00:11:42
Speaker
and we found We found out a couple of things. so We did publish two peer-reviewed journal articles recently in a pretty high ranked-ranking international journal. and In January, I'm actually a ah special editor for Trends in Food Science. and We're publishing 11 papers from ah global scholars. I'll be the one signing the editorial to represent all 11.
00:12:09
Speaker
articles and and really what we found out is that whether you believe that the carbon tax is impacting food prices or raising food prices or is not at all, both camps I think are wrong. It's hard to correlate retail food prices with a policy as complicated as the carbon tax because a lot of things can actually happen. A lot of things can actually impact retail prices, the weather, behavior,
00:12:36
Speaker
loss leaders, promotions, i mean you name it. We actually felt, based on our analysis, there's too much distortion in retail. So we actually moved up the food chain and looked at wholesale prices. And that's when we started to see some significant differences between Canada and the US. For example, wholesale food prices have actually got 40% more than those in the U.S. since 2018 when the carbon tax was implemented. And I've argued in Parliament and the Senate, many times, stop looking at retail prices, start looking at our agri-food sector's competitiveness, because right now, there's something wrong here. And if we are to actually support a less competitive agri-food
00:13:25
Speaker
sector, guess what's going to happen? Grocers will go south. We'll go anywhere but buying our own food to sell to Canadians. And so these are consequences that are really, really hard to reverse down the road. And we need to be extremely careful, which is why I've always said, let's pause on the carbon tax and truly understand what goes on up the food chain. But the problem is that we're facing a government desperate to amplify the narrative of saying that the carbon tax is costing us nothing.
00:13:55
Speaker
It's not impacting food prices and it's funding institutes like the Smart Price but Prosperity Institute in Ottawa, the Canadian Climate Institute as well. Those are machines propaganda machines that have actually advocated for ah Ottawa and supported current policies that are really going nowhere as far as I'm concerned. Tricky stuff.
00:14:19
Speaker
yeah Well, I'm no researcher, but I do read the retailer's reports on sustainability. Those require bourbon for sure. They say a lot of yeah ESG friendly things to keep investors and the media happy. And there's no doubt that they're doing some good for sure.
00:14:37
Speaker
But younger consumers, younger shoppers are turning up the trust dial. We've seen boycott attempts around price inflation. But when it comes to sustainability, do you foresee any sort of ah environmental activism coming to the retailer's front door? Or is this always going to be sort of this separation between environmental activism and people going grocery shopping on a Thursday night? I don't know. like ah I mean, right now you're seeing a very complicated retail space with social media, people are bombarded with a lot of different information. And as you know, a lot of it is not necessarily supported by evidence really. And so you're hearing, I'm hearing all sorts of things. i So I teach food policy to a graduate class at Dow and the things, I mean, the things I hear, my goodness, it's just unbelievable. Like some people actually believe
00:15:32
Speaker
really outrageous things about the food sector. And to be honest, my concern about that is that the more you have urban citizens not understand agriculture, the more you'll actually have you'll have bad policy, really. At the end of the day, that's really what's going to happen. And and frankly, I'm concerned. And that's what we're seeing now, the last five, seven years, as soon as public opinion actually pushes out Ottawa to do certain things without really the proper information needed, that's when you get into trouble. Yeah, I agree. Do you think the they sort of profit before planet mandate, which seems to be coming up from the upcoming US administration, do you think that's going to affect yeah ESG initiatives at the Canadian retail level? i Look at that debate ah from a different angle. I actually do think that most Canadians and some Americans have actually completely forgotten
00:16:31
Speaker
why companies exist in the first place. I mean, that's the first thing I actually say to my food policy class in the fall. So why do companies exist? Like but to make a profit? make Well, yes, of course. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's about bringing resources together to build economies of scales, to actually build expertise around certain areas. And the more you do that, the more you actually have an economy that is actually highly functional and productive.
00:16:59
Speaker
That's why companies do exist is to actually allocate resources much more strategically within but in the economy. That's really why we do that. and so But when you have companies in the system, they have, yes, they have to run a profit in order to remain sustainable. Now, the word sustainable really has become something different for a lot of different people. But I do think that that right now there is a complete misunderstanding of why companies exist and and why should they exist and what role should they play in the economy. I do think that most, not all, but most companies do a pretty good job as environmental stewards. But it's that profiteering thing that really skews many people's vision of
00:17:49
Speaker
what companies are actually doing.
Carbon Tax vs. Cap and Trade
00:17:51
Speaker
and And I do think that a lot of companies are doing great from an environmental stewardship perspective, but are also incredibly under-appreciated by a growing number of people.
00:18:03
Speaker
Well, I've been reading, I don't know if you've come across these guys at all, it's ah a group from MIT has done a book called The Demand Revolution, and it kind of talks about the pent-up demand that there is for sustainable solutions, ah sustainable products. Obviously, there's things like price are a pretty significant barrier, but there's yeah other barriers to to people acting on that.
00:18:25
Speaker
But the one of the things I really loved about the book was they kind of you know they did their they're there's segments they're different audience segments and different types of personas of people, and that even though there're varying there's a lot of differences between these types of consumers, they all have something that they feel like is relevant to their sustainability and initiative initiatives or are ah sort of a mindset. So even if someone is a bit of a a naysayer, they're not exactly they're they're far from being a tree hugger,
00:18:53
Speaker
But they don't want more food in their green compost bin, like they want less. And they understand, so they understand food waste, right? They might not be running out and buying organic cookies, but they understand that they want less in their organic bin. So it's interesting to sort of hear like there is demand for sustainability coming into the food space, but it's just, it's going to have to get sliced and diced to look and look a little different than just, Oh, we got to go after that sustainable conscious shopper.
00:19:22
Speaker
That demand, I absolutely agree that they're spent up demand for for for green and and sustainable solutions, but I think that ah the industry itself and government aren't necessarily building a solid case for it either. Right now, what you're seeing are policies that are being implemented with the with the aim of controlling the weather. i mean That's really what we're seeing right now. because We're basically listening to the ah climate change hysteria, which I think is unhealthy for every everyone, starting with the younger generations. and Let's focus on decarbonizing the market.
00:20:06
Speaker
you know Because you can measure that and you can incentivize companies to do it too. A carbon tax leads to climate change hysteria. We need to tax, tax, tax as much as possible while you're killing a economy because we need to make sure that the world becomes colder.
00:20:24
Speaker
That's not how you're going to get people engaged. And that's not how you're going to get industry and governments to build a case for that pent-up demand you're talking about. I don't think that consumers are out there wanting to pay taxes to control the weather and control mother nature. They're out there because they want a cleaner planet and they wanted to decarbonize the planet. and but So let's do it for the right reasons. And that's why I've always I'm a bit of a fan of the cap and trade system, to be honest. I actually think that both California and Quebec got it right, especially for the agri-food sector. You empower companies to make decisions, incentivize them. If they actually don't pollute, then they actually can make money. They can actually
00:21:09
Speaker
have carbon credits and sell it to the market. If you want to drive your Hummer and you want a fleet of Hummer, that's your business. But pay up.
Logistics Threats to Food Security
00:21:19
Speaker
I think that's fair. Because right now we're penalizing anybody. And I don't think that's a good way to run the economy. Well said.
00:21:27
Speaker
I know ah national food security is one of your favorite subjects, at least from what I can tell us. There's probably a million ways we could go with this, but big picture wise, what stands out as the biggest threat to a resilient supply chain here in Canada? Is it terrorists? Is it broken trade deals? Is it war with Russia, currency problems? There's probably a ton, but what what rises above that above all those right now for you when it comes to food security? Logistics and reliance supply chains.
00:21:56
Speaker
that's It's a no-brainer for me. Food distribution works when dots connect. When the entire system from both ends of the food continuum can actually connect. And the only way to actually connect all of these points is with a resilient supply chain. And that is not what we have in Canada. We've never taken supply chain management seriously in Canada.
00:22:22
Speaker
And we have to, we have no choice. Now, you got Eastern Canada, you got Western Canada. Eastern Canada was blessed with something called the Seaway, the St. Lawrence Seaway. You can actually move frogs very cheaply. And that's why a lot of the wealth early on in the history of our country was actually built up in Ontario and and Quebec, upper and lower Canada, okay?
00:22:46
Speaker
out west, you don't have water. You have to build infrastructure in order to actually get merchandise flowing through. And we are an export driven... Well, let me rephrase. We're an export reliant economy. We should become a export focus ah economy. And the only way to do it is is it's by relying on a solid, I would say, corridor and gateway system.
00:23:14
Speaker
from Winnipeg to Prince George and Vancouver, going through Calgary and Menton, Saskatoon, Regina, all that stuff. And of course, it has to be deemed an essential service because there's been so many labour disputes and and those labour disputes have actually impacted Canada's reputation abroad. It's just unbelievable. So to me, no-brainer logistics.
00:23:41
Speaker
I hear you, especially out here out in the west, there's so many trucks on the road and there's only so many ways to cross the Rockies. So it's ah it's a pretty tricky way. Yeah. and And of course, and that opens up a ah couple of cannon worms, inter-provincial barriers. Let's talk about that. You know, because in Canada, we all know if you talk to a company, they'll tell you right away, it's easier to deal with the US than Canada. That is wrong. It shouldn't be that way.
00:24:10
Speaker
And so let's change that.
Consumer Choices and Impulse Buying
00:24:13
Speaker
I agree. So to the brighter future, an increasing number of grocery categories, you know, there's like good for you products, healthier options, cleaner ingredients are kind of rising, kind of going higher and higher up the consumer's radar. What's it going to take, do you think, to get rid of that expensive natural aisle in grocery stores and decentralize these alternatives so that when when we're shopping in a category that we can see, you know, the better options right next to the, well, less.
00:24:42
Speaker
than better options? I'm of the mind that people should make their own choices. okay If you want to buy a crap, if you want to buy something that's bad, if you want to indulge, that's your business. The government is there to encourage people to eat certain things. The industry is there to make money. And so we have a moralistic government. We don't need a moralistic industry. So I want to part that right there because a lot of people say, oh, we need to eat healthy.
00:25:12
Speaker
We're humans. We're human beings. Sometimes we want to eat stuff that actually is good for you or that that tastes good, but is not necessarily good for you. And that needs to continue you if you want to actually enjoy life. So you need a mixture of both. ah to To me, I mean, right now there's a lot of talk about food banks and people going hungry. I actually have the mind that we actually have an opposite crisis that we rarely talk about. It's the obesity crisis. There's too many people that have too much weight. They carry too much weight. So let's talk about that. And how do we actually get people to exercise, to do lead different lifestyles? and And that's something we don't talk um much about. industry The food industry will offer certain food. At the end of the day, it's up to you and I to decide what we put in our mouths. Some people have cravings. Some people will have dependencies. And this is where things really get are getting interesting right now with this whole GLP-1
00:26:11
Speaker
phenomena with ozemppi and I mean I spoke to so some CPG companies they're almost insulted to see a pharmaceutical company come in and and solve the problems of of many people who eat too much. I actually think it's an interesting phenomenon. What will happen? I can tell you some CPG companies are pretty nervous right now because they see if you have millions of people who don't impulse buy anymore,
00:26:38
Speaker
How are we going to make money? So you're forcing companies to think differently about the consumer, that bag of chips, that chocolate, you know, ah before you go to the cashier. I mean, it's going to force really companies to think differently about the consumer for the better, I think. So beyond the ingredients, beyond all that stuff we put in the food, it's the behavior that really I think is is is going to force companies to do things differently.
Revolutionizing Food Production with Cellular Agriculture
00:27:06
Speaker
And there are some retailers like Whole Foods so where they've sort of, they've be they've actually guided the consumer shopping behavior around what they present and how they lay out their stores and obviously what products they carry. But, you know, they are they are just one retailer and they... But the food basket at Whole Foods is generally more expensive than average as well. That's for sure. That's yeah very true.
00:27:31
Speaker
By the way, when I shop and I'm hungry, my my guilty pleasure is I always buy olives. brave I crave olives when I'm hungry and I'm grocery shopping, so I don't think I'm going to see that on a strip next to the cashier anytime soon. There's not too much sugar and in in olives, so that's good. Yeah, that's a good craving.
00:27:51
Speaker
There you go. Well, my last question for you, Sivan, is are there any food or technology innovations that have your attention right now, like algae or insect protein or cultured meat or urban farming or AI? What what food tech really excites you right now? Well, it's a I mean, i'm I'm actually here in Berlin at an international ah protein alternative conference. I'm giving a talk tomorrow about well What's going on in Canada? and and The one thing that really intrigues me is this whole issue of of cellular agriculture. you know Making food in a lab, in a bioreactor, I mean i find that very fascinating.
00:28:32
Speaker
And of course, ah people will second-guess the technology. But tomorrow, I'll be presenting with a scholar from Singapore and a scholar from Sweden. And as you you may know or may not know, in both countries, one, Singapore has been selling cultured meat for a while now. It's legal. And Sweden is actually looking to legalize that meat as well. And Canada is just idle.
00:28:59
Speaker
Healthcare has not received an application from any company to actually assess whether or not we should be commercializing these products. But I do think it pushes boundaries in terms of where food comes from. How should we make food? The sustainability file, animal ethics, animal welfare, thinking about but how do you actually occupy our vast territory as Canadians? If you don't have any farms anymore, what are you going to do?
00:29:28
Speaker
And of course, tonight I was actually talking to an engineer, and how do you actually make that food as affordable as possible? And when you think about meat in particular, you have to think about equalized salmonella. Well, with cellular agriculture,
00:29:45
Speaker
You don't have to worry about that anymore. So is that a good thing or a bad thing? And I actually think it's it's just a fascinating file that I think most of us haven't really pressured the complexity of cellular agriculture yet. And by getting together, by talking with each other, scholars from around the world, I'm im i'm actually pretty pumped to to be here in Berlin and talk about this issue with hundreds of colleagues from all over the world.
00:30:14
Speaker
Love
Wrap-Up and Networking Call to Action
00:30:15
Speaker
it. Yeah, it's very intriguing, very intriguing stuff. So Van, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. I know you have ah still a full day of meetings, even though it's late in Berlin. Thank you for doing the the show today. Take care. Thanks for listening to this episode of aisle 42. If you haven't done it already, hit the link in the show notes and head on over to the Food Professor podcast and tap subscribe.
00:30:39
Speaker
also include a link to Sylvain's latest edition of Canada's Food Price Guide. If you work in the CPG industry and you give a damn about people and our planet, then I'd love to get my team to help you scale more sustainably faster. I'm easy to find on LinkedIn or you can email me directly by sending a message to corwin at ethicalfoodgroup.com. Okay, that's it for me. I'll see you in the future.