Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#173 - Social Health: The Missing Piece of Fitness, with Karl O'Rourke
205 Plays2 days ago
I sat down with Karl O'Rourke — the Uneducated PT — for round two, and this one went somewhere I didn't expect.
We talk about what happens when you chase followers, metrics, and "success" and it still leaves you empty. Karl gets real about walking away from a gym and online coaching business that looked good on paper, because the growth didn't match how he felt — and how that chase quietly cost him relationships and the things that used to ground him, like football.
We get into audience capture, performative living, and "transitional loneliness" — the disconnect that comes with remote work, screens, and modern life — plus what it's doing to teenagers' mental health.
And we get practical: why community-based training is having a moment, why the Harvard adult development study proves relationships (not achievements) predict how long and well we live, and why coaching businesses need to double down on human connection as AI takes over the information side.
If you've ever felt busy, "successful," and still strangely disconnected — this one's for you.
Timestamps:
00:00 Meet Karl O'Rourke
02:15 Podcasting Without Perfection
03:56 Practice Builds Authenticity
06:56 Audience Capture Trap
10:47 Chasing Numbers Emptiness
14:38 From Avatar to Real Life
17:20 Transitional Loneliness Explained
20:25 Always Switched On
25:08 Boundaries for Teens
26:52 Community Fitness Solution
31:12 Quality Over Quantity
33:04 Building Social Health Business
34:18 AI and Human Connection
34:32 Weekly Group Call Magic
34:48 AI Proof Coaching
36:05 In Person Meetups Matter
37:07 Connection Drives Retention
39:38 Mentorship And Friendship
41:41 Transitional Loneliness
45:15 Build Spaces For People
49:07 Balancing Purpose And Profit
54:01 Presence And Time Passing
56:31 Harvard Study On Happiness
01:00:20 Hustle Culture Reality Check
01:03:01 Grounded And Ambitious
01:05:25 Final Takeaway Connection
Links & Resources:
- Instagram - Karl O’Rourke here
- Apply for LeadHer business mentorship here
- Apply for NourisHer health & fitness coaching here
- Subscribe to my weekly coaching newsletter here
- Access my FREE calorie calculator here
- Connect with me on Instagram here
- Connect with me on Facebook here
- Connect with me on TikTok here
- Connect with me on YouTube here
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends who might benefit.
Music b LiQWYD Free download: hypeddit.com/link/xxtopb [http://hypeddit.com/link/xxtopb] Promoted by FreeMusicPromo [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbycji-eySnM3WD8mbxPUSQ] / @freemusicpromo
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Carl O'Rourke and Community-Based Fitness
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Kate Hamilton podcast. So in today's episode, i interview Carl O'Rourke. So Carl is a personal trainer and he is a podcaster. He is best known as the Uneducated PT and he is the host of the Uneducated PT podcast.
What is Social Health and Its Impact on Fulfillment?
00:00:20
Speaker
Carl's work centers around community-based fitness, connection and social health. And that's exactly what this whole conversation is based around. and We talk about social health and why it really is really what we need to be focusing on as human beings. And we talk about loneliness and how loneliness is actually killing us and that there's studies to back this up.
00:00:44
Speaker
We talk about in business, the chasing of numbers, and chasing of money, chasing of followers, chasing of status. And the emptiness that comes with that and how it doesn't really bring that fulfillment that we're looking for that we think we'll get from it. But how it very much is an unteachable lesson and one that sometimes people really have to go through and then have the self-awareness to realize that that's what they're doing.
00:01:12
Speaker
And that's not actually what's important. And bringing it right back to what constitutes real health is...
The Entrepreneurial Journey and the Role of Connection
00:01:22
Speaker
connection and is community and connection and love. And this conversation really has been one of those conversations that has really, really connected with me and made me stop and reflect. In relation to business, I often think about impact and contribution and helping others.
00:01:44
Speaker
In building a business, I've probably not really thought too much about the importance of connection, and community, and connecting with others. And I think entrepreneurship can be a very lonely place. And this conversation, I think, is a really important conversation that entrepreneurs need to hear and need to take from it what they
Authenticity in Podcasting: A Conversation
00:02:10
Speaker
need. So here we go. Enjoy my conversation with Carla Rourke.
00:02:15
Speaker
Carl, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. i appreciate it and And this is our part two. and And we were just saying over two years since we last talked. Yeah, a lot a good while ago. a lot is A lot has happened since then, I would i would imagine. Yeah, a lot for both of us, I'd say ah a lot has happened. and And when we talked last time, I didn't really listen to it because I kind of like not to do that. I just prefer to kind of just come in yeah organically and authentically as ah where we're at and kind of just just pick up the conversation. Yeah, I i never listen back to the podcast because I just don't like listening back to my own voice. Me neither. To be honest. I never listen. And someone said to me recently, do you not listen back to the podcast to like you know, get better at it and to learn, you know, what you're doing wrong. I'm like, no, I don't care. i just i'm i i think you just get better by doing the thing.
00:02:57
Speaker
like ah Like, when I first started interviewing people, I think nerves make you talk more. when like And then over time, I learned that, all right, just ask a question, let there be silence and let people talk and and really good things come up. And like I didn't need to listen back to my episodes to understand that. it was more from just repetition. I think so. And I think if I started listening back to my episodes, you know, the the way I said things, the way I repeated things or, you know, how like, you know, focusing in, it makes it about about me. yeah And it's actually about the person I'm interviewing. And even a solo episode, I'm like, it's not about me. It's about what I'm saying, what I'm, well you know, what it the information that I'm giving to others. yeah And the thing about me is I think just authenticity and showing up as yourself is the most important thing. And nerves ruins a podcast. It ruins it ruins an interview. Whereas if you can just be relaxed be like, I don't want it to be perfect. I'll make a I'll all
00:03:55
Speaker
make a confession. When I did my very first ever podcast, I think it was like 2019 and anyone who's listening to this who has a fitness business will probably know like when they do their first video or they do their first podcast, like they're very nervous about what other people will think. And I remember like cutting clips from it. and being like, oh no, I didn't like how I said that and I cut it and then I post it and then I like, no, actually that's not how I want to come across. So it was just heavily edited. So then I just deleted it and then I just started again. I was like, you know whatever comes out of my mouth, I've just called it. I'm just going to upload it and let it be. And like, I think the great thing about when you first start off, kind of any pursuit, whether it's like a fitness business, like your social media page or your podcast, nobody's listening to you at the start anyway. Yeah, exactly. you can make as many mistakes as you want. It doesn't really matter. But I find people now will say to me, oh, I started listening to your podcast from the very start. I'm like, oh, dear God. And we're like 170 episodes in or something. I'm like, oh, God, I'm really sorry now. There's no editing.
The Dangers of Social Media and Audience Capture
00:04:56
Speaker
And I was... I think that's so healthy for like someone who is actually just starting their first podcast or is, you know, starting their social media page or just starting their business to be able to look at someone that, oh, look that person. They're doing really well. They're really successful. And then if they go back to like their first or second episode, they're oh, they were actually really shit at the start. And then it's like, yeah, well, if I actually just do the thing and I do 170 episodes, I'll get better too. It's amazing how quickly that those like 170 episodes go by. Like it's just and that's just once a week, just tipping away once a week. And you get so used to it and you learn, I think, how to to show up as yourself. And I think as a as a business person, as someone who, you know, has an online presence or, you know, you're you're helping people using social media or podcasting or whoever, whatever medium you're using and
00:05:49
Speaker
And it I think it takes experience, but especially in today's world, you have to show up as yourself yeah because otherwise you will be lost in the sea of everyone screaming for attention. Did you find when ah you started making ah content online for nutrition and fat loss for your ah for your audience, um like the the more videos you put up and the more repetition, the more it was easier for you to kind of let yourself come across on camera?
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Practice, practice like just just putting it up there and like that as early as I could, I got an editor. yeah Like it was like the first thing I outsourced because I was like, I need to stop overanalyzing everything. And I just wasn't very good at it anyway. I'm not very visually creative. Like so I just got an editor and then that that would be edited, put into the drive and I just post. yeah suppose So I just used to film and I just...
00:06:39
Speaker
I think it probably like I just my attention to detail, as I said, isn't great. So I used to just film and film and film. I just and for me, it's always been about the message, what I'm trying to say rather than how I look or what my background looks like has always been more important to me. And I think that's what has what really helped my videos to grow. yeah But along the way, as the growth started to happen, you do fall into the trap of then trying to produce what you think people want as well. audience capture it's called, where it's when and you start to gain traction for you know putting out certain videos, but then your audience demands, you know, like, ah you'll see it with a lot of trainers online is that, okay,
00:07:21
Speaker
you see them make videos and like they're cursing a lot. ok And then you meet them in person and they don't curse half as much as they do. yeah Because they have to perform for the audience that is engaging more with them, acting a certain way. and you can That's fine because we're all we're all more performative online than we are in person anyway. If you're trying to capture someone's attention in 30 seconds, you're not going be having a relaxed conversation like we are now. yeah But did the problem is you can sometimes get ah lost within that audience capture as well, I think.
00:07:53
Speaker
Definitely. You stop being yourself or you become a more kind of performative version of yourself, which at the same time, sometimes that isn't you. And I think there's a huge soul separation that happens here. And I think it's really um it's really eating into what is causing people to be so unhappy and to be really struggling with mental health, particularly people who are but like who are trying to build businesses, who are posting on social media. and And they think that it's the more, the more, the more that they get.
00:08:24
Speaker
the The more followers they get, the more clients they get, the more they that they're the more recognition they get, that the more hold they're going to feel. And I, I want i would do want to go into this in depth with you now in a minute. But like that was something that I kind of I was really ah self-aware and older than a lot of people that do it. So i I could see myself doing it. I remember crying to my sister at one point being my sister was in hospital. She like she was in hospital for five weeks, five weeks before she had her baby last year. I remember crying when went into Visitor, used to go in most evenings. yeah And i am I remember crying to have being like, I can't remember what I'm about because I had become so much about numbers and not one not in a greedy way more and more and more, but just even just keeping the business going and just trying to. But you know what's funny, right? Think about that. You're someone who has already, who who already has lived experience, already knows yourself, right?
00:09:09
Speaker
Like already is self-aware. Imagine Imagine like an 18 year old or a 17 year old or 16 year old or 15 year old or a 14 year old who are all um like doing crazy numbers on things like YouTube and stuff like that as well. Yeah. It's very easy to get warped into the like the
Addressing Loneliness Through Community and Fitness
00:09:26
Speaker
drug that is social media and algorithms and engagement and stuff like that. If you don't know yourself, it could it could it can literally destroy you. Yeah, because it it breeds separation. Yeah. Separation from you to your you and your audience are separated. You and your your soul ends up separating and you're you have no. Yeah. The only thing it becomes about is it's the performative side. Did you because what I wanted to actually ask you, we've got gone on a tangent for you to start, which I which I love. and But what I did want to ask you about was it is this what your experience was? And i don't want to be putting words in your mouth at all. And because I know you mean you a very similar kind of trajectory initially where it was, you know, building us an online following, putting posting videos, doing those, setting up all the things in our kitchens or in whatever, and, you know, doing the videos, growing the following, building the online coaching business. Yeah.
00:10:16
Speaker
And then you did it before me. um And I haven't I suppose i've I'm taking a little bit of a kind of ah a V to to setting up a second business. But but you did a to be a pretty big U-turn yeah in your career. Yeah. And from building an online coaching business and to building that online following to being like it from the outside, because I know we know each other personally, but yeah we haven't had this conversation. So I don't know. But from the outside, as someone who knows you, but doesn't know you that well, it looks very much like you said, fuck this. Yeah.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, I did. I did say I did say that. And I i think I needed because I was thinking about it for a long time of just like ah kind of cutting everything. But I again, you're kind of the security of the business and stuff like that. And and then it just got to a feeling where i was like, oh, no, I can't continue what I'm doing anymore. We were talking before we went live about like unteachable lessons. And it's like, it's very obvious to say that, and like I spent, so obviously for, just for context for people, like I was working in a gym for maybe four years. And then after that, I pivoted to an online coaching and and building an online presence and content creation for then five years.
00:11:28
Speaker
And for five years, I was working towards building an audience essentially because subconsciously, like obviously I didn't realise at the time and I probably could lie to myself at the time and say, oh, until I build a big audience like, you know, these nutrition professionals that I admire or these fitness coaches that I admire until I can build that type of a business or that type of an audience, then, you know, I'm not, you know, as capable or as good at my job as I should be.
00:11:58
Speaker
yeah um And I think, you know, it's it's easy to it's easy to say it, but it's very it's also easy to get caught in the trap of being like, all right, I need to chase these numbers and this validation, whether that's social media growth or whether that's business growth, in order to validate me at my work.
00:12:15
Speaker
But I was already a ah good coach. I was already helping people with their you know with their relationship with food, with fat loss, with whatever the whatever the issue was. But I was continuing to pursue like, oh, I need to you know put out a video every day. And if that video is not getting the engagement, then that says something about me. um And so for five years, then I kind of built...
00:12:36
Speaker
i i i I worked towards building up a big audience. And then I got like three viral videos and like the in the mix of like three weeks or something. And my yeah my audience grew. And at the start, I was like for two or three weeks, I said guess this is great. I've got everything I wanted. And then, you know, when you hit that kind of high and then it drops down and you realise, oh, actually, this is, i i still feel the same. Nothing's actually... After changed. I'm still me. Yeah, I'm still me. And yet there's that there's a great quote. I can't remember who said it, but it's like, um the biggest failure in life isn't getting what you want. The biggest failure in life is getting what you want and not being content with it.
00:13:14
Speaker
And that's happened to me, basically. That was like, oh, I've, you know, I have a successful successful online coaching business. Like, no, not the biggest in the world, but like in context of people around me, it's like I'm i'm doing pretty well. I can, you know, I can i can live off off off what I'm earning. And and and i had a big I had a big audience and I was like, okay, this is great. This is everything that I wanted. i now have the self-worth that I need in order to to do my work. And yet, like the, after a couple of months maybe of kind of experiences, was realizing that actually this isn't
00:13:50
Speaker
this isn't making me content or making me happy. and I was actually more happy and I was more content in the process of building it than when I actually got it. like I was more happy in the day to day process of being creative, of you know learning and about different kind of nutrition fallacies or whatever it is. and And like you said, getting the message across and then trying to be creative with saying it in a different way or you know getting across so people will actually learn something. And I would get as much satisfaction out of that, more satisfaction out of that than the actual outcome, which which was what the outcome was. and
00:14:22
Speaker
And so I realised after a while that, okay, you know, you have these kind of hidden metrics and you have these ah surface level metrics. And the surface um metrics are, okay, you've, what, 100,000 followers, you have, you're making this amount a month and, you know, that's all great. But the the hidden metrics were I actually wasn't just happy in my day-to-day life. I was letting my social media and my algorithm dictate my life rather than just being present with friends and family and actually going out and enjoying life. um And even with the with the coaching process, I was like, okay, I was coaching people online. We were doing our Zoom calls. We were having great chats. My clients were happy. But then outside of that, I was like, and there was...
00:15:02
Speaker
There was no, there was nothing outside of work that was helping me to feel content about my life. um And I think I swayed too far one side where I was like, I'm living like an avatar online.
00:15:17
Speaker
you know what mean? Like I'm literally on, if I'm not on the computer, I'm on the iPad, I'm on the phone, I'm editing, I'm making a reel. I'm filming. clips or whatever when I'm out doing exactly like yeah yeah instead of like being present in my life I was performing my life yeah um and I suppose that that was starting to to get to me in a way that I didn't realise and then I was it was funny because I was I was teaching the message of like you know, to my to my clients, I was teaching the message of, you know, ah being present in the moment and, you know, like food is more but much more than just calories and fat loss. It's about relationships, it's about experience. But I wasn't following my own message in regards to business. yeah um And then it kind of came to the conclusion where i was like, OK, I need to actually stop living as an avatar online and actually go out and experience life more. And then I was embrace trying to embrace um relationships as much as you know fitness goals or ah business goals. And then i I kind of came to the conclusion that, OK, there's actually something in this that I should be focusing more on the quality of the relationships around me and being present in them relationships. and having some sort of a ah community around me rather than just engaging on this phone essentially. Yeah. And I think that community that like the positive effects of a community is something that a lot of people are missing, particularly men. Yeah. Yeah. um And like I even see it with Dave. Dave will be editing this podcast. So he'll shout out to Dave. and But, and you know, like as met men get older and you you and your friends are probably starting to get to that stage. People are starting to settle down. They're getting married. They're having young kids. And, you know, so those days going out to the pub. yeah And like I don't drink at all anymore. and that But that's more just for my own mental health. yeah It's not me thinking that all drinking really bad. yeah oh I'm better. Too good for it or anything like that. It just it doesn't agree with me anymore.
00:17:08
Speaker
But I do see how important those pub days are for young guys. you know they go watch football together. I know you you and your friends are quite good at still doing that as far as know. Well not as anymore. Not as much as you used to. No no not really. We did it the other day but like. ah I call this transitional loneliness and I did a talk about this in at Loan and it's exactly what what your're what you're saying is transitional loneliness can happen to at any point to any person. It can come from you changing job and then you're going through that period of you know building a business and you don't have the support network of you know the teachers that you used to chat with on lunch and now you're working by yourself and or it can come from like the kids moving away, they're growing up and they move away and then you don't have that role as a mother anymore. It can come from For me transitional loneliness came from I had retired from football because my knees weren't allowing me to play anymore. So I didn't have that like team ah lad camaraderie anymore. And then you know you're getting to a stage where people are having kids and they're moving houses. And we know a lot of people when they're moving house now they're not staying even in the same community. yeah they're They're moving maybe you know, an hour down the road because it's it's more affordable. So you're kind of breaking up, and you know, the relationships that you had with friendships throughout your life. And you can kind of, you can kind of, before you realise it, you're just looking around and you're like, oh, all the kind of support networks or community or things that I used to do to make me feel...
00:18:30
Speaker
like I belonged is now gone. And I think that was a big aspect of when I ah like walked away from online as well, was it wasn't actually just the online work, but it was all the things that I used to do outside of the online work that actually kept me sane. Like going out and playing football with the lads on the weekend and then we would go for drinks down in the pub. started to disappear a little bit for you. That disappeared for me. I think I i had moved out so i didn't have the family around me. and I didn't have football anymore so i didn't have that team environment. I went through a breakup so i didn't have that relationship aspect as well. So all these little changes in my life and but then I was continuing to be on the laptop, be on the laptop, be on the laptop and then I would finish the day and then I didn't have any sort of an outlet.
00:19:14
Speaker
um And I think that's happening to a lot of people now because a lot of people are working remotely and they realise that actually they don't.
Balancing Digital Engagement with Real-Life Connections
00:19:21
Speaker
We don't talk to our co-workers anymore. We don't talk to our neighbours as much. and You know, we're not engaging in sport or some sort of a group activity as much. sure When you go to the shop, you don't even have to talk to a shopkeeper anymore. Exactly. You just you just see it. And there is really great research in regards to social connection that even just going to the barista and smiling and having like a two minute conversation with them is a lot. There's so much more benefits to that for your health than people who just they're in a rush, grab their coffee, go straight out the door to work. And you see that in in all aspects of life. It's like you can go to some restaurants now and instead of talking to the waitress or the waiter, you just scan the barcode and you just order your food that way. Again, like you said, you could go into a supermarket and instead of talking to the shop lady, you're going straight to the to the till. and You know, instead of going out for food, people will just Uber Eats get food delivered to the door. and And instead of talking to your co-workers, you might be doing a Zoom call with them.
00:20:16
Speaker
um So there's so many ways in which we're actually disconnected from reality and from people. And I think that's that's making a lot of people sick. I 100% agree. And I think, although we're more connected than ever with you know all these different social media things, there's no switch off. Like, you know, like I know I'm a few years older than you, not that much older now, but, you know, from when we were growing up, like you went out to play with your friends or even as teenager, you were with your friends. We would have the same childhood experience because it was yeah before, it would have been before 2010 when a social media exploded. So like you'd go out with your friends and you might have had a fantastic time. You might have shit time where you had a fight with someone or, you know, people are just being fucking shitty or whatever. Yeah.
00:20:55
Speaker
But you came home. Yeah. And I remember I was living in the box room. I stupidly given my sister the bigger room. I don't know why i did that. But anyway, I was in the box room. was grand. I had my TV and my little DVD player. And I used to watch like Friends box sets or Sex and the City or whatever.
00:21:07
Speaker
But it was your safe space. It was your switch off yeah from the world yeah and from the fucking people who are at you all the time. Even if you don't realise that they're at you. And I'm not even talking about bullying necessarily. yeah It's just hard growing up. It's just constant. It's just constant. And it's kind like when you're a teenager and you're a young person and you're constantly performing. Yeah. And like, I i think about this a lot because like my like Jaden, my eldest is 16 now, Leila's 13 and Kai's eight. So he's, you know, he's he's not online yet. Like, but it's like, that you know, I take their phones off them and they're like, oh, you're like no one else's parent does this. It's crack And Jaden gives me so much shit. yeah But like, I bet you now, like I left my house at nine o'clock this morning and and yeah and I guarantee you he's still lying in his bed, scrolling on his phone because he's on the summer holidays as we speak. And I i text him, I said, get up and go to the gym. I said, you know, PT mom. I'm like, get up and go to the fucking gym, trying to get him a job. But I think that we don't like we're so lonely. yeah But yet we're always switched on and we're always seeing everyone with the perfect lives or we're listening to people giving us shit yeah or just, you know, it's just there's no there's no safe space anymore. We have no concept of like doing nothing anymore. Like, you know, where like when you were younger and you had to get the bus somewhere, like you would just sit at the bus stop.
00:22:22
Speaker
You know I mean? But now, like you constantly have devices that you like. you And you people can't even go for a shit without just scrolling on their phone. Like, there's no like they can't be alone with their thoughts. Like you get someone to try to be alone with their thoughts for half an hour. It will drive them insane. it would drive me insane. I've actually been practicing trying to do it. But there's great research even in like the average person spends like two and a half months a year on their phone. Now, that's the average person.
00:22:44
Speaker
I would assume you're higher than that. I i would be higher than that. you use work as your you know excuse to you know be doom scrolling, whatever, you're probably spending a lot more on your phone than that. And like this comes from us who you know would have had a childhood where you could kind of go out and you had a play-based childhood rather than you know a phone-based childhood. Yeah.
00:23:06
Speaker
The next generation, like and you can see it in in all the research, like we we run a youth mental health charity where we kind of give access to private health ah private mental health services on demand to kids. And like the reports that we get from the therapist is like, it's seriously, seriously bad in terms of suicidal ideation for for so many young teenagers. And like most of the research will will report this as well as that.
00:23:34
Speaker
I think from 10 years of age to 14 years of age, and young girls, ah suicidal, not ideation, but suicide attempts shot up like 60, 70%.
00:23:46
Speaker
sixty seventy percent I don't have the research on me now, but it's ah it's a massive jump. And it goes straight from 2010 when you know all image-based social media came about. and And it's like a direct correlation between social media and and suicide attempt for young girls. Because...
00:24:02
Speaker
Everyone knows what young girls as well. They ruminate a lot in their heads as well. yeah And then if you don't have any switch off and you're going home and you're going into your room and then you're going straight onto social media, you're not getting away from kind of that group dynamic of other teenagers. Like it's it's a lot to be just constantly thinking about. ah And then it's the same with lads as well as, um you know, Depression, anxiety, ah suicide ideation has all increased dramatically since 2010, since the rise of social media. And I don't like to sit here and bitch about social media all the time because obviously it's given you and me loads of benefits. And like I've met so many great people through social media and then, you know, going to events and then becoming great friends with people. And it gives you so many opportunities as well. So like there there's there's so much benefits to it as well. But there's there's also a lot of negatives to it.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah and I think the answer isn't to sit and and you hear a lot of people go to sit and just oh Jesus like what are we going to do about this social media or we need to keep them off social It's going anywhere. It's like it's not going anywhere so it's a case of having and want to make the whole podcast about how to to look after our teens either but um We have to find a way to teach them how yeah to live in this world and how to switch off in this world.
Transitioning from Online Coaching to Community Building
00:25:15
Speaker
But I don't think we figured it out ourselves yet. And that's that I think that is the problem. And I think the best thing that we can do is in our homes is just create those boundaries and be the examples like sit down at dinner and everyone puts their phone yeah into a box yeah or over into the over onto the counter. yeah And you sit like and I try and do this. So now I'm like and I'm i'm not perfect that that this doesn't happen consistently in my house. I'm busy. yeah I forget and everyone's on their fucking screens and or they're eating in different rooms or whatever. But making an effort, I think the biggest things you do is making an effort for like mealtimes, even if it's not the whole family together, that there's a couple of you together.
00:25:49
Speaker
Just put the phones away and have a conversation. Just listen to them. Half the time teenagers don't even want to talk to you anyway, but that they know that you're there being annoying, asking them questions every day so that they can. if they want to The worst thing you can do, I think, in this situation is try and blame the parents because like they're fighting an absolute uphill battle against, yeah you know, the most like we we started this podcast talking about the addictive nature of, you know, ah social media rewarding you for for videos and stuff like that. So it's happening to adults. Of course, it's going to happen to children as well.
00:26:20
Speaker
All I can say is in terms of my own experience with social media, like the more months the more I'm on social media, the worse my mental health is. There's a direct correlation there. And and instead of instead of being like trying to cut out social media um or even reduce it it, for me, it was just like increase things that give me the opportunity not to be on my phone.
00:26:40
Speaker
yeah And that can come from like, all right, I'm doing a ah class where... You know, like, you know, you go to the gym and if you go by yourself and you can literally be like scrolling on Instagram ah but between sets. Yeah, between sets. I've actually just gone back to class based training and because exactly I just am far too much on my own Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Whereas if you do like a group training and you do a CrossFit class or you do whatever whatever it is that you like, it doesn't have to be fitness. I know we're going to talk about fitness because that's the industry we're in. But it can be a dance class, it can be cooking, it can be whatever it is. If you have something that's going give you the opportunity for an hour to be off your phone and out of your head and be around people and doing some sort of an activity, like the benefits that's going to have is going to be so great.
00:27:20
Speaker
And I think that's something I've realized with myself. So that's that's how it all started for me, you know, when I did make the career change and I and like fitness became my job. And then it very quickly more went into like nutrition and habit development and and mindset and lifestyle. And, you know, like the coaching that I do, health and fitness coaching, I do is, you know, much more about the lifestyle and we go deep with it. A lot more than just about sets and reps. But fitness, fitness used to be my hobby. So, you know, I used to do CrossFit. I don't do anymore. I'm too old. I'm too broken. I just can't. I try to go back and I just can't anymore. My overhead mobility is fucking shocking and I'm just not willing to put the work in to fix it. I'm like, I'm OK. Self-awareness is there. Self-awareness is there. I'm OK being T-Rex. It's fine. But I, so I kind of, I kind of been between gyms and trying this gym and that gym because I just realised that suddenly the gym was starting become a chore because it was more alone time
00:28:15
Speaker
And it was yet like that screen time in between. And then it started to become a bit about what I looked like as well. You know mean? You know, these kind of commercial gyms you're looking in, you're surrounded by bodybuilders and you're looking around at all these people in their little shorts and sports bras. yeah And it gets very warped very quickly to think that that's fitness yeah when it actually isn't. But um I'm now in a place where I've i've joined a new class based gym. They do a bit of high rocks if you want it. They do a bit of trika. They do all all that stuff. We can also go into strength classes and the programming is good. yeah And, you know, there's there's output classes where you can do partner workouts. And, know, there's like there's a bit a good mix of cardio, good mix of strength. But unlike me and Dave have only just joined.
00:28:58
Speaker
But I'm excited. jonna I'm excited for it to be hobby. like And we've been going in the evening. I'm usually for the past few years I've been training in the morning after I drop kite to school. Whereas now I go for my walk, get a little coffee, come home, get the work done. yeah And in the evening I'm going with Dave at the minute. yeah And it feels like a hobby because I don't need to think about I'm wrecked after dinner and I'm like annoyed rushing out the door to the gym. But when I get there, I don't I just have to follow the program. yeah And it's your it's your it's your stress relief from life, essentially. And I'm excited to become part of that community and like have have a hobby again. That's basically what I built my whole business on then was essentially that was like, OK, I'm going to create a program where it's, you know, it's class based group training. and But the goal isn't physique development. The goal isn't bigger muscles and the goal isn't like a smaller waist. The goal is essentially to be around other people, to have a break from life, to interact with other people, to to exercise to feel good, but to be able to have a conversation with other people. Because, you know, so many people are now, like, working from home, You know, they might have their relationship at home, but like they want to get out. that They want to get out of the house after eight hours of work, you know, and they don't have a lot of opportunities in regards to create that environment where it's like, you know, you're you're in a group of people, you're working together and you're you're getting that stress release, not just from training, but from, you know, interacting with other people that you wouldn't usually interact with. And, like, you're ticking off so many different boxes there throughout that. That's why we basically call it, like, social health, which still... I'm surprised it still hasn't gone as mainstream ah as it should in regards to social health because, like, the the research around it, the research that Julianne Holt-Lunstad has done in terms of, you know, so being around other people, being around relationships, and, like, there's...
00:30:43
Speaker
obviously everyone everyone's going to be different in regards to how many relationships they need to to feel healthy. It's the same as like sleeping. You can tell someone they need eight hours sleep but some people can can work off less and some people can work off more. yeah It's the same with kind of relationships but like there is kind of like you you know you might have your romantic relationship you might have your family relationship you might have you know your your childhood friends and you might have like that group of people that you have similar interests with yeah that you can kind of relate to. But i'd imagine I'd imagine there's a baseline that everybody needs. Obviously, some people are more introverted than than others. Like, you know, if I take myself, my sister as an example, I'm much more introverted than her.
00:31:22
Speaker
I like to keep my circle small. of course. She's friends with half the community, you know mean? And so I think it very much depends, doesn't it, on the person. But is there like a baseline? Well, like, I think even with introverts, there is a misconception that introverts don't need social connection, but they do. But the thing is, like, you're probably not, like, you're not introverted when you're around Dave, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you still have your people that, you know, you can just be yourself with and you can be close with. And it's not energy zapping.
00:31:52
Speaker
Yeah. So and I think everyone is and that's what kind connection isn't the knowing the most people. Connection is the quality of the relationship that you have with that person. Yeah. that You can actually just relax. Exactly. And be you and there's no performing involved. Exactly.
00:32:07
Speaker
Exactly. yeah Like there's nothing better than being around someone and you can just be silent. So there can be silence and it yeah doesn't feel awkward. Yeah. I think that's that's really important. um and And that's what like connection is basically it's it's not the quantity of relationships. It's the quality of the relationships. Yeah. Essentially.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah. So I will i will say, i think that you've done that really well with what you've built now. And, you know, from the outside looking in, you know, the the the get togethers you do, you know, the classes, the the client shout outs that yeah like you can feel that community and come through what you do. And I know your your business is much more impersonate, but what you do share of that on social media and really shines through and it's so wonderful to see. And, you know sometimes I look it and I see faces that I recognize, you know, and I go, it's amazing to see so and so do so well. And, you know, um I think it just shows how powerful that that human connection is, that that actually shines through so strongly. Yeah, you wouldn't. I think also there's a ah good thing to know actually for kind of any anyone who has a fitness business now is that like your coaching doesn't start once they kind of, you know, come into contact with you and they sign up to your coaching. Your your kind kind your a coaching starts even within your content. Like when someone comes to join our program, they know straight away what they're getting. And like you'll you'll have a lot of people who start and they'll say,
00:33:29
Speaker
oh, Carl, I just, you know, I just moved into Bray. I don't really know anyone. And, you know, I wanted to kind of, I want to get to know people and also obviously train. So like they know exactly what they're coming in for when they when they do start. And that that obviously comes from us being very, very public in regards to like, this is like a like a community, ah a community kind of based thing that has fitness involved. So like we'll go for hikes, we'll do events, ah we'll go out to the harbour bar together, you know, We'll do we'll look we do loads of different things. um And then obviously, you know, fitness is the is the glue that brings everyone together. But then they make their relationships doing all sorts of things. And and that's what it is. It's it's social health, social connection, it's community. It's having a place to go outside of your your hectic life. And that works well for people, I think.
The Value of In-Person Connections in Business and Life
00:34:16
Speaker
I think it's the future, to be quite honest. like and Like, let's talk a little bit around AI here for a minute, because, you know, like as someone who has an online fitness business and and the most important thing in that whole business, the most important thing and the highlight of my week is we have a Wednesday night call. Yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker
Everyone comes on the call. Yeah. We connect. Yeah. It's supposed to be an hour. It's usually closer to an hour and a half nearly by the time we finish talking. And every week that's that that is the most important part. We have our WhatsApp group as well. And although it is online, that connection part is the most important. Like we were now entering a world of AI and any coaches or any type of service led businesses, ah particularly if we talk about online coaches here, need to listen to this. we You will be replaced. Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
you You will be replaced if all you're giving is information and programs because I do better. Yeah, the general public might not not be up to scratch with AI just yet. But I tell you one thing, I don't need a coach anymore. Yeah, for sure. Why? Why? If if all you're offering is a nutrition plan, a program and like a couple of WhatsApp texts a week. Well, like AI is going to be able to program that more efficiently um and and faster than you'll be able to do it. So you you have to have more about you than just, you know, the deliverables, the the training program, the nutrition plan, ah the the weekly check in. And like that's how I built my ah online coaching business was we would all jump on a group call together and we would all have the chats and, you know, we would talk about what people are struggling with and, you know, It it became I was obviously supporting the person. But then after a while, it was like people on the calls would start being able to support each other and started to kind of connect through that. So there's there's no reason why you can't create that human connection and community through online as well. Like i I did that as well. I do urge people, though, to to really think about as they move forward. And this is my own health and fitness coaching included. Yeah. That needs to start happening is in person.
00:36:15
Speaker
brought into that, yeah you know, the the and a lot of coaches are doing this, you know, these in person meet ups every second month or whatever. yeah And I think that's such an important whether you do big events or just group hikes like you do, just that that in person stuff need is going to be very, very much needed. and you'll you'll build a connection with someone 10 times quicker by meeting them in person than online. Now, well like I've done lots of mentorships where we would have our weekly Zoom calls and we would chat about things that we're struggling with in business. And you would you'd you'd kind of connect with people because you're like, oh, that person's funnier, that person's relatable. And then you would chat outside of the the group environment. But then when you, like I did plenty of ah ah events where I'd have to fly over to Manchester because that's where my... yeah
00:36:59
Speaker
That's where my mentorship was and once you meet someone in person that you had been kind of communicating with for the last couple of months, it makes such a difference in regards to even like if you're a fitness business now and you run an event and you know two or three of your members, your clients start to bond with each other. The retention you're going to get out of that is going to huge. Most people don't go to my gym because of me. They go now because they've made friends with X, and Z. So I don't even have to be there. They're not there for me. It becomes a playground for adults. Exactly. 100%. That's the perfect way to put it. And especially, you know, adults of like 40 plus that used to play sports and aren't able to play sport anymore or can't play sport or, you know, people who are isolated working from home or that are parents.
00:37:42
Speaker
that in person side but like what you were saying there in relation to like just say the business mentorship and you go over there's a lot to be said for and like I loved those in person events and the different mentorships I went to as well it's what I needed the most it with actually just having dinner with someone going having a few drinks even as someone who doesn't drink but you know going in that drinking environment where everyone's just letting their hair down and it's just a bit of crack you're a bit of crack yeah And you can still talk about business. I don't think I remember much from most of the events I went to in terms of the speakers. Not that the speakers were great. I'd have been the annoying person now with the pen.
00:38:16
Speaker
Fuck this, I'm going to get ahead of these people who are hungover. I definitely took notes and stuff like that. But like it just the buzz of flying somewhere, and meeting up with people you didn't really know, really like anxiety induced and really nervous. And then you realise, oh, this person's cool. this person's And then you would have coffee before you go into the event or you would have dinner after. and like I remember like five or six of us went for for dinner after and we just had the chats about everything. and like they were the That's what I remember coming back from them events. Not the actual event itself, but the experience around it. And how you felt. How you felt. yeah and you And that's the whole point of social connection. it was like, what made that experience great was I got to connect with other people, other like-minded coaches. yeah That's the whole game. The whole game is connecting with other people. It's relationships. yeah And people people just don't get that. like eat No matter what your goal is, your goal could be weight loss. It could be to build your business. It could be whatever it is. But it's in the process, the people you meet along the way is what makes it memorable, not the actual outcome.
00:39:18
Speaker
Yeah, I know I couldn't agree more. Like when you think about if if health and fitness coaches are listening and you're building this for your clients, your clients want to be around other people who are trying to exactly build a healthy lifestyle and the tips and tricks that work for them. And they're building that new identity and being around other people who are who are in a similar boat is just so empowering. And I see this all the time with my health and fitness coaching. And then like look at yourself as an entrepreneur and be like, what do you need? yeah And that was a huge learning curve for me, like with mentorships. But yes, I was looking to know what I needed to know.
00:39:48
Speaker
But I also needed the group calls. i need I actually needed it more than I did the accountability. Exactly. Because it usually entrepreneurs were quite get up and go and we'd just get shit done anyway. and So it wasn't necessarily the accountability, but it was the community and the friendships that I made. And, you know, like having a friend that you can like have an absolute meltdown and a voice note to. And like my friend Katrina were that for each other. Like I will send her a meltdown message. and she'll wake She's in Australia at the minute. She'll wake up to that. I'll wake up to her meltdown messages. Yeah. But we kind of help each other out. You know what I mean? Because sometimes you just when you're like you're building a business, it's lonely, it's stressful.
00:40:22
Speaker
And but the same is true for your clients who are trying to lose weight, particularly if they're in an unsupportive environment at at home. Or I get a lot of women who start who join my coaching and they don't tell their husbands or their partners or their kids or in their household yeah that i I don't want anyone to know. Yeah. And it's ah it's because they don't believe they can do it and they will eventually get to the stage that they're feeling so empowered and it's it's so great to see.
00:40:44
Speaker
But for like as a coach, it's really important to remember that the space that you hold for people might be their only happy, safe space yeah as well. like you don't know what people are going through. It can be a very lonely journey being ah an entrepreneur, especially in an online one as well. Yeah, because you're constantly just and like that dynamic is really important that you spoke about because you could have someone who is coaching you, your mentor. OK, and you could be, you know, coaching people and you are the mentor.
00:41:13
Speaker
But having that kind of middle ground of people who are on the same journey as you um to be able to connect with is really important and people forget about that part of it. So if you're, if you're, if you're, if you have a business now and, you know, you are missing out on that aspect of actually create an environment or a dynamic where actually, you know, the people that you are helping can actually help each other. That's, you know, yeah it's creating its own momentum then. Yeah. And i like I feel this really strongly, like with this kind of, you know, that that transition, bringing it back to that transitional loneliness that you're talking about, like going from teacher to then like, you know, building this online coaching business with three kids and a mortgage, leaving teaching. everyone Everyone's been like, shit, Kate's fucking lost it. Like what's happening? You know, this is a phase, whatever, you know. and But like being so true to your message. But there's a lonely phase. And I don't know, you maybe you can tell me who talks about this lonely phase. Was it Chris Williamson? Chris Hoss. Yeah, he talks about it, doesn't he? And that it's like, like, you know, I lost a lot of teacher friends and connections. Just not not because of any reason, just because it's just life it's situational. It's situational, yeah. And then i wasn't quite where I wanted to be with my business. And you go through that lonely phase until you, you, you,
00:42:21
Speaker
become externally what you feel internally and people recognise it for and then you start connecting with people. Yeah, people are drawn towards you that are in a similar thing then. And then I find myself in this weird transitional period again that although I'm not leaving Coach Kate behind, Coach Kate's still there, but there's a new branch of Kate starting to grow that is a little bit lonely in that journey because she's not really sure where she's going and she hasn't connected with people who are on that same journey as much yet or are who are further along than her but I don't know why talking about myself in the third person but we'll go with it. Yeah but it makes sense. But so you know that it what's really important in those transitional periods are mentorship. yeah Yeah, yeah. People who are on that same journey with you.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah. you know, because they're feeling the exact same thing. So your mentor who's a little bit ahead of you, but the people in us. Yeah, are more important. yeah Almost more more important as well, because you need to not feel alone when you're going through that. Because even your mentor can be explained to you like, you know, this is fine. And and but if having someone who is experiencing the same feelings as you, i think is a lot more powerful than someone who is trying to reassure you who's already three or four steps ahead. Yeah. so No, 100%. And I think that's something I didn't realise until I experienced it. Yeah, yeah. um
00:43:34
Speaker
And like that's the misconception about kind of transitional loneliness is that um you know it like you can have all the relationships and You know, this like if you you could tick off all the boxes and say, oh, you're you're not lonely. You have, you know, a husband, you have kids, you have friends, ah you have co-workers, you have whatever. But it's like it's the it's the phase of life that you're going through that can almost determine that.
00:44:04
Speaker
So it's it's ah it's a difficult, everyone will go through it at some point, whether it's obviously when what we're talking about is business. People will go through it in fitness. It's like, you know, you had friends who you engaged in all these unhealthy behaviors with, but that's fine because they were your friends and, you know, you loved going to go into the pub every weekend. And now you're trying to get in shape and become you know a better person people will try and hold you back exactly from a loving way but also an uncomfortable in themselves way being like I don't like the curls doing this now that's making me feel a bit shit about I'll give shit about it yeah and then you're in that lonely flight phase yourself it's like you're trying to improve yourself in some way whether you're just trying to like instead of going to pub you're trying to go to the gym and it's um because you're not there yet you know you have not you have you don't have the identity of fitness yet
00:44:48
Speaker
It's very difficult then to, you know, be in this little kind of no man's land between, you know, the person who goes out on the rip every weekend to the person who's trying to pursue fitness and like who were who are my friends or who are the people with me ah
Adapting to AI with Human Connection in Service Industries
00:45:03
Speaker
along that. And this is why we panic and revert back to our old patterns because it feels too uncomfortable. And um I think that's why it's so important as well, baby steps with it. But I think what like, you know, business owners and coaches need to take from this is this is what you like to survive in this world of AI and to build a successful business that is actually like I'm presuming people listening want to actually help people yeah and it's not just about making money you have to create that space for people because that's what's missing in life and it's what people need whether you are i am a health and fitness coach whether you are i
00:45:41
Speaker
I'm trying to leave off the top of my head like what it doesn't matter what what type of area of of whether you are like a nail tech, whether you are like beautician of some sort, a hairdresser, no matter what type of serve, if you are any type of service provider, you can hold a space for people where they feel seen, where they feel heard and where they where they feel connected. Yeah. and and particularly health and fitness coaches, I think have if if you can be ahead of this curve, I think and, you know, really hold people in that space of of feeling connected, you're you're on to a winner and a really not just a really successful business that's going to survive this period in time, but also a really fulfilling, sustainable business where you're actually you you you love it and you enjoy it. And and the the stopping of the chasing of the numbers of the social media numbers and the money and there's nothing wrong with wanting to make a bit of money and go see the world but it's like it's you you have to hold two conversations in your head at once it's like of of course because like you have to be able to make money in order to survive in the industry yeah you know and most most I think there's more
00:46:50
Speaker
I think there's more health and fitness coaches out there who and want to help people that then want to make money. And i think the issue is then that they actually end up not being able to make the money because, you know, they don't know how to market their services or they're afraid to, you know, ask for what their what their what their value is and and so on and so forth. So like ah I got. I know there is i know there is like ah a part of the industry that's very much you know ah make as much money as possible and not really giving a shit about their the people that they they work with. um but And um it might be just that I'm in my own echo chamber of always meeting and kind of coaches who are the other side of the things, who who want to help people yeah um rather than just want to make as much money as possible.
00:47:36
Speaker
and So I don't know. I don't know if you've experienced that yourself. like i Yeah, there are so many. I mean, I find there's so many coaches. They've so much experience, so much knowledge. yeah So like, you know, not even just coaches, like we're talking I'm talking dietitians here, you know, physios, like loads of people with, you know, in that space. Yeah, in the health space are that have so much knowledge.
00:47:54
Speaker
but still have this imposter syndrome about putting this information out there or they're worried about being criticised. And it's like, I don't like the negative narrative of giving out about the industry. Yeah, it doesn't help you anyway. it does the yeah The industry is ah how it is. How do we change it? By more of the people who care putting their stuff out there. and like And I think that's really what I want to be able to do in the industry as well is the people who really care, who, you know, are going to make a difference, help them.
00:48:24
Speaker
like be seen be seen so that they can help more people and show them how to be seen and show them how to build the systems and marketing and sometimes that does come from like if to like flip the script on what we've been having a conversation about is like worrying so much about numbers and worrying so much about building a following like you have to earn a certain amount and you have to build some sort of an audience to be able to help them people because if no one sees what you're doing how can you help them Yeah, so you do have to. It's a catch 22 because you have to actually build some degree of an audience. It doesn't have to be a massive audience. It just has to be an engaged audience. And you do have to be able to earn a certain amount a month to be able to survive, to be able to live. And I think this is the part that this balance that I have struggled with.
00:49:12
Speaker
And i I can't be alone. I'm sure a lot of others struggle. this I don't think i've ever really talked to anyone about this before, but that having to keep like you when you're running a business, particularly as it grows and it is, you know, you're bringing in a decent amount of money. that You've got staff, you have people to pay or even if it is just yourself and your clients. Yeah.
00:49:29
Speaker
You have to look at the numbers. Yeah, course you do. For a long time, I used to fucking dread an email from my accountant. And oh my God, like I had so much to learn. coming and And huge kind of stress around money and numbers and, you know, like wanting to grow, grow, grow. And I really love a lot of people, lot of coaches hate the business side of of growing a business. I love the business side of growing a business as much as I love the coaching side.
00:49:55
Speaker
um It makes sense then that I'm going to business mentorship. But yeah but i I found then I was getting too business heavy, not in a greedy way, but just in ah my mind would just go to the business side. OK, social media, how are we? How are we marketing this? how we going to do this launch? what What are the numbers looking like? What is it? What is a projected going to look like in two months time? Shit, there's not enough money there to pay everyone unless we do X, Y and Z. You know, all of this kind of stuff going on.
00:50:20
Speaker
It takes away from the creativity and the the message. And I think when I go back to that moment of crying to my sister, being like, who am I? It was like that balance had gone too far one way. Now I very much had to bring i had to go very imbalanced the other way for a while and really reconnect back with me. Yeah. What am I about? What is Nourish Her, this big business that I've built?
00:50:42
Speaker
What is it? What is its purpose? We need to make sure that that maintains. And how do I maintain this wonderful business that I love as much as my kids, which I do? And I say this lot, you know, I don't really do because it's me. it It all came from me. And how do i nurture that?
00:51:00
Speaker
Look at the numbers, keep that going and then tap into my creativity for this new thing as well. It's a really hard balancing act. It's very hard. i I don't think I could give you the answer to that. I don't think there is an answer. I think it's seasons. Yeah. It's what I figured out. It's like, it's very hard. If you think about like you're you're on a seesaw by yourself in the middle and you're trying to try to get it to balance right there in the middle like and... You can't. It's it's just it's it's never. And I think people give up because they think they can't get it balanced. There's no it's not. It's not balanced. Like entrepreneurship is not balanced. And you have to be OK with the uncertainty. There some times where you'd be like, shit, is everything going to fall apart?
00:51:34
Speaker
It always has a way of working out. If you don't sabotage yourself, it always works out. I suppose that's why they say like ah ah an entrepreneur has to have many hats. all right You have to be able to be that yeah that people. you have to have You have to have them people skills. you have to be You have to have that logical brain at times. You have to know your numbers. yeah You have to be creative at times and be able to and market. You have to be able to
Reflecting on Time, Presence, and Meaningful Relationships
00:51:56
Speaker
manage people. Yeah. Like, ah you and you also have to be able to take that hat off and be able to, ah like, experience life and enjoy a relationship. That's the other thing that i've lost that I've lost. And I think I'm still struggling with a bit. Apart from, like, you know, obviously the identity of mother. Yeah.
00:52:09
Speaker
And partner. I don't. Who was Kate after that? After business. that's what That's where I'm at now. I don't know. I can't answer it. Because Kate and business is the same thing to me. Yeah. but that's that's it That's also a... ah ah so I think probably a struggle for business owners. It's like, what's your hobbies of my business?
00:52:29
Speaker
It's like your business can't really. Well, i I won't say can't because i like, you know, people can actually live their lives any way they they want. i don't I don't think there should be any judgment attached or yeah or any real rules.
00:52:41
Speaker
But I find with myself, it's like if I only if I only look at my business as and I suppose I've used my business to also create pleasure and out of that in terms of Like, you know, my clients are also like, I've forced them to hang around me. Come on, we're going for a hike. Come on, we're going for food. So like I've created that dynamic as well. But I also have to have something outside of that as well. Yeah. Whether it's just like hanging around with a friend and just being Kyle, but Kyle, not the trainer.
00:53:08
Speaker
Yeah. and But I think that's that can be difficult as well because yeah like when when when we say that like we need to switch off, it's like it's it a lot easier said than done.
00:53:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think I spent a lot of the time that I haven't been in business and I haven't been working by myself. You know, with the kids are going for a walk by myself. David would be working or whatever. And, yeah you know, and I like being by myself. But then I think I got to the stage that I overanalyzed my life so much, whereas now I'm like, I need to be around people. I need to learn to have a bit of fun. Yeah. That's it. to Have a bit of fun. and But then I also just really enjoy working. working my business. and it's it's it's It's also addictive isn't it? Yeah. yeah yeah It can be quite addictive and it's hard to it's hard to decide that okay I'm going to go do something random that I haven't done yeah before and when you could also be saying to yourself well that's four hours of the day that I could have got ahead of whatever I needed to do in regards to my tasks. And I think I'm just getting really, really aware of time passing. and Like I've turned 40 this year and I like and I'm really i'm really excited about being in my 40s. You know, it took getting older doesn't bother me. um
00:54:15
Speaker
And you know, even looking older or whatever, like I don't care. Like that doesn't bother me. If anything, I'm just like, it's just more experience, more to share or more comfortable in your own skin. Like the older I get, the more confident I i become in myself. yeah But how quickly my kids are growing up is frightening the shit out of me. Like it it really is. I'm like, holy shit. Like, I like, Carl, do you know 2006 is 20 years ago?
00:54:35
Speaker
Like i haven't really thought about Like, well, the press feeds think. 2006. Right. I think about this. so in 2006, I was 20. Right. I genuinely don't know where those 20 years went. How is it 2026? Like, if I think back to me when I was.
00:54:49
Speaker
in 2006 so me talking now talking about 2006 like Jaden and Leila my kids yeah and and I'm talking to them about 2006 it's the same as my parents talking to me about 1986 always and they frighten me I'm like holy shit yeah so like it's it's more the passing of time that frightens me what frightens you about it though do you think that I don't remember much of it o and ah that I'm like I wasn't present so what's really important to me now is presence and purpose and connection yeah which brings me on to the study that I was talking about talk to me about this Harvard yeah so this is this was also like a wake up call for me that I was like exactly that's why I asked you that question because i i I would have answered the exact same thing is that I wasn't actually present that I was like working really hard to build something but I wasn't actually enjoying it um or I wasn't like I wasn't and enjoying it with people yeah as well I was yeah i was trying to do it all myself and and and then like you know you do something and then yeah i someone had someone had something great on social media the other day it's like this girl she was living away from her family and friends and she went and she ran a race i think it was like a 10k or a half marathon or whatever it was to her like was a huge achievement for her and then she was at the finish line and there was no one there to celebrate with her and then she was like bawling crying and it was like it's like you
00:56:11
Speaker
is Like achievements are great, but what's better is to be able to celebrate them with the people that you love. Yeah. but That's really important. Like you building your business, but having no one to celebrate it with, like, yeah like it's it's a great achievement, but, you know, it can be all that sweeter when you're able to celebrate that withp with people. And like that the the Harvard harvard um ah Adult Development Study, it's one of the longest running studies on health and happiness.
00:56:38
Speaker
And essentially they follow they followed, I'm go to i'm only paraphrasing now because I haven't referenced this study in a long time, but it like I think it was like 620 participants And they came from all like different socioeconomic backgrounds. So you had like Harvard students who could have been quite privileged, some of them. And you had like, you know, Boston boys who, you know, and might have gotten in trouble every every now and again. So you got people from all different kind of ah ah walks of life, essentially. And they followed them throughout their lives from when they were babies, to when they were teenagers, to when they were adults, to to when they had kids, to to up until they passed away. They would follow them through their whole lives. ah
00:57:19
Speaker
John F. Kennedy was actually one of the participants in it as well. wow And they would just do surveys with them all the time. They would just kind of do these surveys to see how their lives were going and and stuff like that. And what they found was so they interviewed them all at the start and a lot of the participants, they would ask them, they what's a happy life and so on and so forth. And they would say things like, you know, wealth, status, fame, achievement, all these things. If I can achieve this, I'm going to be happy. And it was all in their different domains of what they wanted out of life.
00:57:48
Speaker
And what they found over time through doing surveys and and medical reporting and all that was the healthiest and the happiest individuals were the ones that had meaningful connections in their lives, both with their friends, their family and with their community. And the ones that...
00:58:04
Speaker
died earlier and and suffered from different types of diseases and didn't have strong connections at all in their lives. And that came, like the the report is really, really detailed. It goes into loads of different reasons as to why they failed to have strong connections in their lives. Things like the inability to forgive and so on and so forth. um but But what they essentially found was that, you know, it was it was relationships by the end of their lives that determined how healthy they were and how content they were. and regardless of what they did in their lives, regardless of their ah economic background, regardless of their social status, regardless of anything.
00:58:41
Speaker
it was It was the relationships, the quality of the relationships in their lives defined their health and ah defined their happiness. And we see that in other research studies as well in terms of, you know, it reduces and depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, ah dementia, ah cardiovascular disease, all cause mortality. Like ah loneliness is it's detrimental to your health of smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day and greater than obesity and inactivity. Like that's across the board on all research, um which is an insane thing to think about. um And they even have this in. There's loads of research studies with doctors that will, you know, a patient will come into them and they'll describe, you know, things that are wrong with them. And instead of giving them medication, they give them social prescribing and they go out and they do different things and they come back and all their health markers improve.
00:59:29
Speaker
It's shocking. So it's crazy. It's like yeah like having good quality relationships in your life will not only just improve your health overall, but improve the quality of
Balancing Ambition with Personal Connections for Fulfillment
00:59:38
Speaker
your life. yeah um So I think we're we're missing the forest for the trees if we chase after achievement, like building the business, building the body, ah running the races, whatever it is, if we're doing that at the sacrifice of our relationships. I'm not saying don't be and ambitious and I'm not saying don't focus on, like ah like i could I can agree with a lot of the the hustle husstle culture stuff from like Alex Hermosi and stuff like that as well but if you're doing all that stuff while sacrificing the relationships in your lives, you know you might get to the end of your life and be like, oh I've achieved everything I want and I'm not happy. Yeah.
01:00:17
Speaker
Yeah. And never was along the way. Yeah. And never was along the way either. Did you watch or listen to the interview that Alex Hermosi did with Tony Robbins? ah No, I missed it. I've seen I've seen I've seen it go viral a couple of times online and I never got around it. I listened to it. It's such a good listen. I'd say it's interesting. Because, you know, Alex Hermosi... Does he have a change in perspective by the end of the I've never seen Alex Hermosi speechless. Like, yeah uncomfortable. Tony makes him uncomfortable. yeah and and like And I like Alex Hermosi and I'm not... i like I'm quite anti-hustle culture, particularly for women. it's like Particularly women over 40. It doesn't do us any good. yeah But I also... like you know I like the ambition and the self-belief. Yeah, you can take parts of it and be like, yeah. I look at him and I'm like, Jesus Christ, look at the yeah work self-belief, the work ethic, the you know the vision. I'm like...
01:01:04
Speaker
we can do this too. You know i mean? And I think so I think Alex Hermosi has had a very positive impact in ah in a lot of ways. Probably, you know, taken up the wrong way can be very, um very, they can be very unhealthy for yeah for people as well. Yeah. And I don't, but I don't think Alex has ever said that what he's promoting is healthy, healthy or balanced. And he's very upfront about that. Yeah. But that the Tony, because obviously Tony Robbins is what? He's in his 60s. Yeah. But he's a fantastic businessman. and He's a billionaire. Absolutely. And he and has worked very hard and is very extreme in his health and his, you know, different stuff, you know, and he's probably gone a bit mad over the over the decades, you know, and with with his success. But he's also very connected and very tuned in on how important human connection is. And he really challenges Alex on that. And he asks Alex questions in it where.
01:01:52
Speaker
Alex doesn't know how to answer. He's like, well and he he actually goes, what do you mean? he doesn't actually get it. So, which is interesting now, because I think himself and his wife have just announced that they're that they're expecting a baby. And funny thing is, I was listening to a podcast that him and Leila did a couple of years ago, and they were saying, oh, ah we don't want to have children because we don't need to have children because our business is our child. yeah um And I was i was listening to that and I was like, oh, that's that's interesting because I know like there isn't going to be a percentage of the population who just don't want to have kids. And I respect that. And that's fair. and everyone Everyone can live live their own lives. But i just thought it was interesting. And then ah to hear that is is interesting that there's been a change in perspective.
01:02:31
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, he's he he is an extreme um example of what like working is. And I think, like all extreme examples, um you know you can take parts of that without having to identify with the whole thing. You can take the you can take the the the things that are relevant for you and that you needed to hear and use them without you know going the full length the spectrum. And this is me as well. There's these two sides of me i we and we can finish on this now. But like it's um like the so my whole thing with my lead her mentorship is very much the grounded woman and the powerhouse woman yeah and interconnected. yeah So like, you know, integrated because I thought for a long time it was one or the other. And I love like I love learning about spirituality. I'm very, very connected to the universe, to nature, to to myself, like to my true self. Like and and i I listen to a lot.
01:03:26
Speaker
on that, like I do quite a lot of meditation and, you know, ah and that's really important to me. So I am very spiritual, but I also have this like ambition in me where I'm like, yes, like I love like listening to like Alex Hermosi or listening to, you know, like Sarah Blakely, who yeah created Spanx. I love her. Like she's just fucking she's amazing, you know. And but then I'm like for a long time, i was like, oh, well, have to trade everything that I love to be able to create something and that or else, you know, that if I want to be super grounded, live a simple, peaceful life, which I also do. Yeah.
01:03:54
Speaker
that I have to trade success for that. And then what I've realised is, no, you fucking don't. now you know You can have both. Yeah, you can have both. And that's exactly what I'm doing. and That's what I'm building. and And I think it's exciting and it's OK to it. You need the self-awareness. And it was what you said there.
01:04:08
Speaker
Listen to Alex Hermosi. Take what's relevant to you yeah from him. Listen to Eckhart Tolle and take yeah the spiritual stuff that's relevant to you. Read books like Man's Search for Meaning. yeah It doesn't mean you have to drop everything in your life and live a life like a monk. Yeah, exactly. But you can take parts of it that connect with your soul and are important for you. And like you said earlier, you can do it in seasons as well. Yeah. Like you can go real like hustle, hustle like culture if you want for. You're getting something off the ground. Push, push, push. Yeah. And then you might feel, oh, I'm taking this a little bit far. Maybe I need to pull back. Maybe I need to go back within myself a little bit and, you know, yeah just be one with whatever it is that's going to give me peace. Like you you can... Again, even with business, I just I don't think there is any rules to the person that you have to you know, you can have all your little personalities and you can like your business for most people's business is them.
01:04:58
Speaker
Yeah. You know, so you that your greatest weapon is going to be to be yourself. I think Maval does that really well as well as like he's very spiritual, but he's also like this incredible businessman. Yeah. I think a lot of people, yeah yeah you don't have to be one or the other. You don't have to have, like we we teach this in nutrition all the time. You don't have to have dichotomous thinking.
01:05:15
Speaker
It doesn't have to be one or the other. One's not good, one's not bad. yeah You can find, ah you know, that gray area. You can find that balance and you'll probably be a lot happier because of that. Yeah. What a way to finish. Carl, thank you so much. I've read like this conversation has and has actually meant a lot to me and it's given me a new perspective that, you know, as I said, with that side of, you know, the the grounded and the powerhouse, but also that's still all very me, me, me. And, you know, and I think about a lot about contribution and how how I contribute in the world and how I help others.
01:05:46
Speaker
But what I'm forgetting a lot of the time is connection. Yeah. And I think a lot of people listening will be in a similar boat because it's such tunnel vision when you're growing a business. I think the message we need to take from this is don't forget about your connection. Yeah, not me, me, me, but also we, because if you're just thinking about yourself all the time, it's a recipe for misery. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Thank you so much. My pleasure.