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S1:E14 - The Turn of the Screw & The Haunting of Bly Manor
31 Plays4 months ago
Get ready for a deep dive into the chilling world of Henry James’ novella The Turn of the Screw and its haunting Netflix adaptation, The Haunting of Bly Manor. In this episode, we break down the timeless psychological thriller that has been sending shivers down readers' spines for over a century. We’ll explore how the novella's themes of ambiguity, fear, and unreliable narration translate into the ghostly, gothic atmosphere of The Haunting of Bly Manor. How does the show expand on the novella’s story? What elements of The Turn of the Screw remain at the core of Bly Manor? We’ll discuss all the heart-stopping moments and dig into the ways in which the series weaves in additional themes like love, grief, and the haunting passage of time.
Hosted by Lindsey with co-hosts Crystal and Keri.
Content Warnings: Psychological manipulation, mental illness, death of children, ghosts/supernatural, ambiguous reality, isolation, fear, murder, grief/loss, drowning/suffocation, possession, abusive relationships, violence
Books & Adaptations Mentioned:
- The Turn of the Screw by Henry James (1898)
- The Haunting of Bly Manor (Netflix, 2020)
- The Haunting of Hill House (Netflix, 2018)
Question of the Episode:
- What’s your favorite ghost story or haunted house tale?
Share your opinions with us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube, or email us at basedonabookpodcast@gmail.com
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Intro/Outro Music: Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!)
Thanks for listening to “Based on a Book” - see you in the next chapter!
Chapters:
(00:00) Introductions and Synopsis
(02:00) Ratings and Non-Spoiler Reviews
(08:56) Book vs Series Breakdown
(1:23:56) Final Verdict
(1:26:11) Question of the Episode
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Themes
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to Based on a Book. I'm your storyteller, Lindsay. Gather around, dear listeners, as I guide you through a tale as old as a winter's chill. I'm Crystal. I'm pretty sure I'm not a ghost.
00:00:25
Speaker
And I'm Carrie, who's perfectly splendid. Once upon a time, ghost stories were shared by the fire during Christmas time. So let's keep the tradition alive and uncover the mysteries of The Turn of the Screw and its Netflix adaptation, The Haunting of Bly Manor.
The Turn of the Screw Overview
00:00:44
Speaker
The Turn of the Screw is an 1898 Gothic horror novella by Henry James about a young governess who takes a position caring for two orphaned children at a remote English estate. As she settles into her new role, eerie events and mysterious apparitions lead her to believe the children are being haunted by malevolent spirits. But is it truly supernatural or a product of her imagination?
Bly Manor Adaptation
00:01:12
Speaker
Loosely inspired by The Turn of the Screw is its 35th adaptation and a modern retelling titled The Haunting of Bly Manor. This story follows an au pair hired to care for two children at their remote estate. She quickly discovers that Bly Manor holds dark secrets and the line between the living and the dead begins to blur in a tale of love, loss, and lingering spirits.
00:01:40
Speaker
Both stories weave ghostly suspense with psychological intrigue, making them perfect for a chilling discussion on the blurred boundaries of reality, perception, and the supernatural. Are you ready to face the ghosts that linger in the shadows? No.
00:01:57
Speaker
that I was gonna say, ah Crystal might be ready for one.
Crystal and Carrie Review
00:02:03
Speaker
So let's go ahead and start with our ratings and our non-spoiler reviews. I'm gonna start with Crystal. Of course. Thanks. Don't mind me, guys. I'm just over here shaking. It's fine.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, someone check out Crystal. but So in true Crystal fashion, I didn't finish the series until last night and I finished up the book this morning. I had to break it up because I don't understand the book. It was hard to read. Facts. And, and I have based my rating specifically on the experience I had last night after finishing up.
00:02:50
Speaker
series and I give the book one creepy guy walking past my window through the dry leaves in the middle of the night. Because that's exactly what happened and I freaked out because I just watched the show. So it's your fault and I blame all of you. I sat up for like an hour and a half trying to convince myself that it was somebody ordering DoorDash at the apartment complex.
00:03:15
Speaker
But I freaked out. Honestly, I feel like... The guy's like, what do I have to do with anything? It scared the daylights out of me. Y'all keep making me watch this scary stuff and I just can't handle it. But the book was so... Back to the reading books over 100 years old.
00:03:38
Speaker
written in a style that was difficult for me to read, I had to slow down. I had to stop every paragraph and and kind of like, okay, well, what does all that mean? And because I was like having to decipher it as I went, none of it was scary. Like, in fact, I missed that things were supposed to be scary at certain parts. And I had to go back and be like, oh, wait, that was a ghost. Or like, oh, wait, the kid's being creepy. Got it. Like, I couldn't figure out the kid was being creepy until I stopped and translated it all. And I was like, oh, stupid kid.
00:04:08
Speaker
like you know yeah So the book is a one. It just it it didn't. It didn't really do anything for me. It wasn't creepy. The series, on the other hand, scared me out of and my mind. Thanks. You're welcome.
00:04:26
Speaker
Carrie, I gave it to Bly Manor ghosts. And honestly, I feel the same way Crystal did. I mean, obviously, this is a really difficult read, and that's obviously going to affect my rating.
00:04:43
Speaker
i I'm not going to be as scared because I'm trying to interpret what's going on. And like Crystal said, I'm trying to, you know, realize that this is actually a ghost we're speaking to because I'm trying to understand like how it's written and the writing style. o So it's not going to be as scary. And I also watched the series a really long time ago, like when it first came out.
00:05:12
Speaker
and so I had that series a little bit in my head even though it's like was known to be like a loose adaptation but I had that series in my head going in and I'm sure we're gonna get into it in a little bit but there are a lot of people in here in the tv series that are not in this specific book that I was looking forward to reading about. So that I can't help to say that that might have affected my rating because I was a little disappointed. So that's fair. Yeah, I gave the book to au pairs. I gave the series for talisman. Yeah. OK, if we're reading the series. Yeah. Yeah. It's a four. It's a four for me. Four creepy faceless ghosts.
00:06:02
Speaker
Like that was, it was, it was scary. And I'm, I mean, I know you guys at this point all know, everyone knows, the world knows that I don't be scary, but this was, this was, I don't want to say it was a good creepy, it was scary. It was, but it was, it was, there were rules to the scary. Again, anytime there's rules to a world that I can write my brain around, I'm like, okay, I could survive that. I i could, I can handle that. yeah So yeah, follow the rules. You'll be fine.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, I like I like. Like it's like I watched Haunting of Hill House, which this is from like the haunting, like the franchise or whatever that they're doing. And I liked Haunting of Hill House more. Yeah, me too. Like that was like a five for me. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So this is just like was a little bit less like I didn't love this as much as Haunting. I can't help but like compare the two because you know, made by the same thing.
00:07:01
Speaker
and yeah same actors and stuff like that but this is just like so good and you know what when i first when i watched it for the first time i didn't really like it that much like i didn't love it as much i actually had like so like i just I think I had a lot of high expectations because Haunting of Hill House was so good and like specific expectations for it, but rewatching it, I was like, I fell in love with it. like I actually fell in love with the series more watching it for a second time, which I feel like that doesn't really happen for me, so that was weird. I've already recommended this to someone else to watch. Oh, wow. For me, like that's what always takes something up. like Am I willing to tell somebody, yes, you should watch this?
00:07:46
Speaker
And yeah, no, like one of my close friends, I was like, you you should go watch this. It's good. It's worth it. And I think it's like Netflix even said, like, it's been, it's a weekend bingeable. And I think it really could be on or, you know, get you a rainy gross weekend if you don't have anything else to do. And it's totally doable in a weekend and worth it. I liked watching it a second time because I also watched it when it first came out back in 2020.
00:08:09
Speaker
um But I liked watching it a second time because you really see more of the ghosts that you may have missed the first time. See, that's what I think watching it the second time would really, now that you know what's going to happen and you know what to expect, you might see more that you didn't notice the first time around. So I i will probably rewatch this.
Ghost Stories at Christmas
00:08:27
Speaker
hu Well, you know, with Hill House, there was a ghost in the background of like every scene. And I was expecting the same from Bly Manor, which is true because anytime the story is from Danny's perspective, there's a ghost in the background. And I was still finding more ghosts. I was like, oh, I missed that one. know Yeah, I think it's worth a second. Watch at least. Yeah, so good. But we're going to go ahead and get into full spoilers because we have a lot to discuss.
00:08:56
Speaker
So if you have not watched the series or, or read the book, if you want to do that, um, or not, because very convincing, very convincing. go Go do one of those things, but don't be afraid because we'll, we'll be here waiting for you. But get comfy because this is, like I said, this is a long one. We're going to get into a lot of details and we're going to start off with content and trigger warnings.
00:09:25
Speaker
So catch me if I miss anything. We've got psychological manipulation, mental illness, death of children, ghosts, supernatural, ambiguous reality, isolation, fear, murder, grief, loss, drowning, suffocation, possession, abusive relationships, and violence.
00:09:45
Speaker
And a cat. Sorry. And a cat in the background. Right. I think that about covers it. late Legit just now kind of occurred to me that there were no pets at all in in this particular adaptation, but I feel like what's a haunted house without like a cat or a dog randomly staring into a corner of something that you can't see? like Yeah, like all these ghosts and there's no... Yeah.
00:10:15
Speaker
Part of me really enjoys a pet in the story, and then part of me stresses out that something bad is going to happen to the pet. Yeah, that's true. That's fair. That's very fair. Before we actually dive into the story, let's take a moment to talk about the old tradition of telling ghost stories at Christmas time. Okay.
00:10:34
Speaker
While it might seem like a holiday monopoly on spooky tales, the Victorian era saw Christmas as the perfect time for a good ghost story. Families would gather around the fire, the flickering flames casting eerie shadows, and they share tales of the supernatural to ward off the long and dark winter nights. This tradition even inspired some of our most famous ghostly works, like Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.
00:11:01
Speaker
Ghost Stories at Christmas weren't just about scaring each other. They were also about reflection, morality, and the bonds of family and community. So when Henry James published The Turn of the Screw in 1898, it was a nod to this long standing tradition. His story perfectly captured the haunting atmosphere that Victorians loved during this season. So really what better way to honor that tradition than talking about it today?
00:11:34
Speaker
Good old Christmas traditions. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Don't watch this in the dark. Happy Christmas.
Bly Manor Characters
00:11:44
Speaker
So in the book on Christmas Eve, we have an unnamed narrator. Don't get me started. And some of his friends, and they're gathered around a fire,
00:11:57
Speaker
One of them, who does have a name, his name is Douglas, reads a manuscript written by his sister's late governess, who is also unnamed. The manuscript tells the story of her being hired by a man who has become responsible for his young niece and nephew following the deaths of their parents. He lives mainly in London and has a country house in Bly Essex.
00:12:23
Speaker
The boy, Miles, is attending a boarding school while his young sister Flora is living in Bly, where she is cared for by Mrs. Gross, the housekeeper. So just Mrs. Gross, housekeeper, and then we have the governess. Flora's uncle, who is the the governess's new employer, is completely uninterested in raising the children and gives her full charge and explicitly states that she is not to bother him with communications of any sort. So the governess travels to Bly and begins her duties. This pretty much aligns with the episode, the very first episode of Bly Manor, which is called The Great Good Place.
00:13:14
Speaker
This is named after one of Henry James's short stories from the 1900s. So every episode is actually named after one of his short stories or novellas. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. And I think one of the episode, I think it's episode eight or something is an exact, I heard that it's almost an exact adaptation. they Yeah. Some of them are like, yeah, to one of the short story of one of his stories. Yeah. I haven't read it. I don't know what the, I haven't might read that one or maybe not. It's probably worded in a way I don't understand. They're they're either from the 1900s or they're from older than 1898. So it might be another different one. You do, you boo. Yeah. I need a translation. Can someone just rewrite this? Yeah. Where are the cliff notes? Right? Yes, please. So again, in Bligh Manor, in the series,
00:14:14
Speaker
The episode actually begins in Northern California in 2007. A woman is attending a rehearsal dinner for a wedding. And there she tells the story of an au pair, which dates back to 1987 in London. The American native, Danny Clayton, is hired by you Henry Wingrave to look after his niece and nephew in the Manor Bligh.
00:14:44
Speaker
So we get a glimpse of Dani's character and basically how she's come across this job. ah She is staying in a hostel.
00:14:56
Speaker
in London while she tries to figure out her working situation. And we noticed that there's a menacing reflection in her mirrors in her room. Yeah, jump scare right off the bat. I remember that part used to scare me like really bad. like I would think about it to this day. like Ever since I had originally seen it, I would always think about that Reflection all the time and it's not necessarily like a scary like some like monster or something in there No, but it's terrifying. Yeah, but just so it's just scared like just the idea. Okay, it's almost just a silhouette almost but like the blinding eyes with the blinding eyes and Legit of all the ghosts apparitions
00:15:42
Speaker
alter egos, whatever in this movie or in this series, that to me is the most terrifying one. and I don't like a mirror thing. I don't like a mirror thing. but no Freaked me right out. Also, she just and she just so happens to be staying in room 217, which is a nod to Stephen King's novel, The Shining. Oh,
00:16:05
Speaker
Of course you picked that up. I didn't notice. What was the last one that had the room that correlated with the Shining that we did? Wait, which one? Don't ask me. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember now either. It was the prompt for me. It just came to mind. I was like, wait, we did something else with the Shining. We did. I know. I'm sitting here going, wait a minute. I've got to go through the list. I don't know.
00:16:34
Speaker
That's probably the last one I did. Anyway, moving on. It was not worthy worlds. No. But it's also hinted in the series that she may be running from a situation. She's on the phone speaking to someone that sounds like she may be running from something from her past.
00:16:57
Speaker
Also, I don't know if it still works, but the telephone number in the nanny ad was a number you could dial, and it was a voice recording of Miles and Flora. Ooh. Ooh, that's creepy. I'm going to have to look it up and try it. Yeah, I don't know if it still works. I know it used to. I'm not sure it's recorded somewhere online. I'll find it. Yeah, probably. So Danny then arrives with Owen, the cook, who is not in the book, and meets the children Miles and Flora.
00:17:27
Speaker
And then the housekeeper, Hannah Gross. Love them. And that literally Owen and Hannah are like, I just adore them. there's Owen, Hannah, Jamie, all of the characters that are not yeah in the frickin' book are the ones that I love the most. Yeah, I adore them with everything. Yeah, I was gonna say, there's the gardener Jamie who is also not in the book. Yeah. So there are some extra characters. But continuing with episode one, none of this happens in the book.
00:17:58
Speaker
Flora warns Dani not to leave her room at night, but Dani ignores this. Follow the rules, folks. Follow the rules. And she ends up finding many talismans spread throughout the manor, one of which belongs to the previous au pair, Rebecca Jessel, who is in the book. Also, spoiler, we have another manor haunted by our Rebecca.
00:18:24
Speaker
What do you know? It's a popular name yep for a ghost. I'm sure. ah i I get it now. um and Allegedly, Rebecca has died by suicide at this point. Hannah describes the talismans as a protection for Flora. and At this point, Danny actually sees a man on the parapet.
Chilling Atmosphere
00:18:53
Speaker
And then while putting the kids to bed, Dani finds a faceless talisman in Flora's room. who And she ends up locked in Flora's cupboard.
00:19:08
Speaker
or closet. But when she touches like that talisman, like Flora, like this part really freaks me out. like When kids are doing like weird shit and like being creepy, that that is what terrifies me. Which is Flora, 24-7. All the time. like like Kids sometimes, they'll have like this like they just have this like extra sense or something. and they're She literally like comes up off the bed, and but right when she picks it up off the ground, she's like, don't touch that.
00:19:38
Speaker
Like wide-eyed not blinking don't touch that like the faceless like little doll and these towns like flora makes these these little Talismans cuz that's not creepy enough some little kid making these little tiny voodoo talisman dolls that she leaves all over the place. Yeah Mm-hmm. Like that's that was creepy.
00:19:59
Speaker
And they're all like set up in like a dollhouse. A dollhouse is a book. And the dollhouse is like it's it's this it's the house. It's a blind manor. It's set up all blind manor. So she gets to put all these little talisman dolls that she's made for everybody in all the weird nooks and crannies of blind manor.
00:20:21
Speaker
It's just weird. It's weird. So she gets let up out of the the cupboard or the closet a few hours later and notices Muddy footsteps. which i on on When she follows them outside, she sees Miles and Flora staring at her from their windows. And who the hell follows Muddy footprints? Muddy ghostly footprints?
00:20:48
Speaker
Why didn't she ever compare the size of the footprint to the size of the children's feet? They were obviously not children's footprints. Also, like can I remember when this show first came out, there were so many like funny memes and stuff of the way that she would run around. so right And I was thinking of them again, and I was like, why did she do that? like The way that she marches around and runs around in a panic,
00:21:16
Speaker
Which like, when I'm like, if I'm like genuinely running around in a panic, I'm not, not fast walking like she's doing. No, no. It was pretty comical. Yeah, like the way that she fast walks like really cracks me up every single time. So we're gonna go back to the book. and In the book, the governance has a few days without miles.
00:21:42
Speaker
but Miles does soon return from school for the summer just after a letter arrives from the headmaster informing his caretakers that he has been expelled. Miles never speaks of the matter and the governess is hesitant to raise the issue. ah She fears there's some horrible secret behind his expulsion, but He's super charming and she's way too charmed by him to press the issue. We're going to go back to the series, episode two, The Pupil, which is also named after 1891 Short Story by Henry James. ah Danny tells the children that while she forgives them for locking her in the closet, she doesn't believe their story that it was stuck. That's basically their excuse. That was stuff they couldn't open the door.
00:22:38
Speaker
in In a flashback, in his days in prep school, we get to see Miles and his increasingly erratic behavior, where he's picking fights, he's unaliving small animals, he's throwing himself from trees, and this is how he is expelled. It is also suggested that the reason Miles gets himself expelled is because he gets a letter from Flora that says, come home.
00:23:10
Speaker
So in the present, Danny makes the children do the house chores and gives Hannah and Jamie a break. Danny has a panic attack when Flora tries on a familiar pair of broken glasses that she finds in Danny's suitcase. And Miles starts acting unnervingly adult-like toward Danny.
00:23:37
Speaker
which is creepy. I hate flirtatious. It was very creepy. Do not like that. Also, I want to say that something else that worked because once again, I don't like when kids do really creepy things. Flora.
00:23:52
Speaker
She would continuously look behind Danny. Yeah, like over her shoulder. Like like something was standing there and like and she would like tilt her head like she's listening to someone talk behind her and no one's standing there. And that that's the kind of stuff that will give me nightmares. Yeah. Like if you're if I'm talking to it like a little kid and they're like looking behind me and like they're having a conversation with someone behind me,
00:24:19
Speaker
I'm actually going to flip my shit. like I'm actually going to freak out. yes umm I'm going to start screaming because no, no, no, no, no, because you see something. Don't tell me you don't see something because you see something. what's What are you looking at? I think the first time you really notice it in the series is when Danny is giving Flora a bath.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yes. And Miles has given her this hairpin and she's got it in her hair and notices and she's like, where did you get that? And she was like, oh, Miles gave it to me. And you learn that it belonged to Rebecca and Flora is very upset. Yeah. And then she looks behind Danny's shoulder and then looks back at her and says, oh, no, it's fine. Yeah. What that ghost tell her. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Creepy.
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, I actually had like a theory. OK. Which obviously is like not correct now. But at the time, I thought that she that Flora was actually talking to. The person that Danny sees in the mirror all the time. Oh, I thought to it first. I was like, oh, she sees Danny's ghost. Yeah, like she's seeing the person that's like constantly like haunting her or something.
00:25:35
Speaker
That makes sense, yeah, okay. That's what I thought at the time. And then I was like, oh, no. No. Wrong. But another creepy aspect is playing games, especially hide and seek with children. Yeah. What the heck? At night? Can we talk about this part? In a giant manor house? Uh-huh. We have to talk about this part. Because this part is terrifying. So while playing a game of hide and seek,
00:26:05
Speaker
at night in a giant manor house. At night in a giant manor house when they should be in bed. Dani discovers a photo of Rebecca and her lover. Her lover just happens to be the same apparition that Dani saw on the parapet.
00:26:20
Speaker
du du die Yeah. ah Carrie, what did you want to say about scary hide and seek? OK, so that part where so Flora's and I it's the attic, right? So Flora's hiding in the attic. okay so And she's s singing humming a little song, you know, as she's like hiding and you hear someone like humming with her. And then all of a sudden she turns around and she's like, shh
00:26:51
Speaker
And then this thing with no face is like humming along with her and then like stops humming and then like lays back down. That Oh Willow Valley song is played and hummed and sung and on the jewelry box throughout the whole nine episodes. And when I woke up and heard Creepy Guy outside my window the other last night, I started, I tried to get myself to go back to sleep and that song popped in my head. And I was like, no girl, no girl. So I started singing Hot to Go instead.
00:27:25
Speaker
a He said, hey, he said, hey, Joe. Pretty much. Oh, gee. I did. Any other earworm, please. Anything else? But you wanted the spirit to have you hot to go? I mean, yeah as long as we ain't oh will-o-wallying, whatever the hell that means. I was, I was not doing it.
00:27:49
Speaker
Tell it, you guys mess me up with these scary movies now and then. and It was too much for me. Just be prepared, there will be more. Chapel Roan saved me. yeah but yeah So after the hide and seek, Miles falls unconscious and we see a ghostly figure grinning eerily at him through the window. And he sees him.
00:28:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's the biggest difference between the book and the in the series is that. In the series, they very clearly can see the spirits, they're they're very clearly interacting with these ghosts. Yeah. And they like Danny has seen.
00:28:34
Speaker
this, the man up on the parapet who's now the guy outside the window. And she doesn't think that's a ghost. She thinks there's a real human man out stalking. You know what I mean? And so like these ghosts are not like, ooh, creepy ghosts. They're- They're humans. They're humans and they look like live people. You're not seeing through them. They're- Yeah. They're not like walking through walls or anything like that. like There's no way you would know, except for the really, really old ghosts.
00:29:07
Speaker
Right. They're not like disappearing right in front of you until the very end. Right. You're seeing something like that. And they just snap disappear. They don't yeah slowly fade like time travelers would. I think that's it. Oh, my God. And I think that's also like a really big difference between the book and the movie is like the book almost gives off this What's the, what's the phrase that I'm thinking of? Like, like a unreliable narrator yeah type vibe. Like we don't have con-, like we don't have true confirmation yeah of what's really going on. and But in the series, it's clear what's going on. And then, well, in the narrator, in the, in the book, nose right off the bat, these are spectres. These are not
00:29:59
Speaker
humans knows right like so right off the bat knows their ghost their otherworldly their demonic their their bad right right off the bat, but in the in the series Danny Has no idea they're even ghosts yet. Yeah, she thinks there's like the the guy that she's seeing is like an intruder trying to come because people think that the guy like nobody knows that guy dead yeah they when she describes him they think they're like, oh that's Peter Quinn who like ran away and tried to steal like a ah Yeah, he stole some money from Apple. Yeah, they don't think he's dead, and right?
00:30:36
Speaker
So this aligns actually with what's happening around the grounds of the estate in the book as the governess begins to see the figures of the man and the woman because she's seeing a woman also who who she doesn't recognize. And the figures come and go at will without being seen or challenged by any other members of the household. No one else is seeing the ghost.
00:31:00
Speaker
And they seem to be supernatural to the governess. Like you said, she immediately understands these aren't humans. And this is when she learns from Mrs. Gross that the predeces her predecessor, Ms. Jessel, and another employee, Peter Quint, had a close relationship. And They are both dead in the book. Before their deaths, they spent a lot of time with Flora and Miles. And the governess becomes convinced that the two children are aware of the ghost's presence and they're being influenced by them. Yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
which was hard to interpret interpret in the book because its of how it's written. but it I had to reread that section. I did the audiobook and I like read the physical copy because I thought the audiobook would like help me because sometimes you know like tone and an inflection and when words are presented.
00:31:59
Speaker
kind of helps you figure out what's happening. Yeah, totally. um And so that's what I was kind of going for. And it helped a little bit, but then I still had to go back and like reread it to try and figure it out. And it was kind of hard to tell that what the governess was saying. then you know The narrator's trying to tell us, these are ghosts. The kids know about the ghosts.
00:32:22
Speaker
And I think these ghosts are are trying to do something to the kids, are trying to manipulate the kids. And it took me forever to figure that out. But I do want to read you one quote, the only quote I have marked in the book, because it's the only thing I understood. Okay.
00:32:43
Speaker
She says, she's talking to Mrs. Gross, trying to explain to Mrs. Gross that she's pretty sure the kids know about the ghosts. And she says, no, no, there are depths, depths. The more I go over it, the more I see in it, and the more I see in it, the more I fear. I don't know what I don't see, and I don't fear.
Governess's Perspective
00:33:06
Speaker
The first part I got, but my instant thought was like,
00:33:10
Speaker
Ogres are like onions. I was like, the depths, the depths. And then I started reading everything in a weird, horrible accent, like Mrs. Button or Lady Button from that show, The Ghosts. From that moment, I was like, the depths, there's depths. I don't know what I don't know.
00:33:34
Speaker
From that moment on, this was a great read. Man, I wish you would have been reading the book to me with that accent the whole time. I know. Well, I would have had to go back and try it again and again until I got it right, because there were a few times I was reading it and I went, wait, that didn't make sense. Go back, read it, read it differently. Different inflection, Crystal, come on.
00:33:52
Speaker
like i started I started speaking like Peter Quint after a while. I was like, oh, I gotta stop this. I'm telling you that that in english that Scottish accent, that does something to me. I'm not gonna lie. Hey, Mr. Ghost. Not with Peter Quint. I'm just saying, he was a handsome man. Sorry, carry on. Now that I've derailed everything with Shrek and my love for ghosts. Ew. Episode three.
00:34:24
Speaker
The Two Faces, part one, which is titled after Henry James' short story, The Two Faces from the 1900s. We get the backstory of Rebecca Jessel and Peter Quint. So a flashback to a year before reveals that the ghost whom Danny saw earlier is Peter Quint, who works with Henry and meets Rebecca Jessel when she interviews for the au pair position. They begin a relationship,
00:34:53
Speaker
And Flora gifts Rebecca the doll that she made of her. Peter becomes possessive of Rebecca and gets a little jealous of Rebecca's interactions with Owen. Okay. So.
00:35:10
Speaker
in In this moment, he's gonna like he's he was gonna stay the night, but now he's being all jealous. He's like, I'm gonna leave. You're gonna be fine, right? You're gonna be fine. and He's saying it in a way that you know what he wants to hear is for her to beg him to stay. And my first thought is like, yeah, she's gonna be fine. She didn't need you before. She doesn't need you now.
00:35:29
Speaker
like Because that's, in my head, the minute a man tries to make me feel like I need them, I don't fucking need you anymore. And I was waiting for her to be strong in that moment, and she was just like, wait, Peter, no, Pete, no. It's not like that. Like, ugh. Like, from that moment on, I hated her. That was it. I hated that whole relationship. I was like, I hate both of them, right? Mm-hmm.
00:36:01
Speaker
And then it's revealed that the photo that Danny found ah to have been taken by Peter in the off wing limits of the house. It's basically the beginning of their relationship and you see that Rebecca is in this like luxurious fur coat and Peter's in like this weird wife Peter. Right? Yes. It's really awkward. And Hannah admits that she disapproved of their relationship from the very beginning. but Yeah, she like never liked him. No, because he was just like he's like just disrespectful person. He's disrespectful. He definitely gave off cringe and ick and... Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:49
Speaker
And in the present, the police are at the manor. they're He's trying to find Peter Quint. He does a sweep of the manor outside the grounds and everything, but can't find him. Again, they're assuming Peter is alive. The adults believe that Peter doesn't know that Rebecca is dead. And that's the reason he's stalking the grounds is that he's looking for Rebecca. He's come back for her. Yeah.
00:37:18
Speaker
Here's where the story really starts to change between the book and the series. In the book, Flora leaves the house without permission while Miles is playing music for the governess. The governess notices that Flora is gone and she and Mrs. Gross go looking for her.
00:37:40
Speaker
and they find her on the shore of the nearby lake, and the governess is convinced that Flora has been talking to the ghost of Miss Jessel, which is Rebecca. um The governess sees Miss Jessel, and she thinks that Flora sees her as well, but Mrs. Gross definitely doesn't see her. Flora denies seeing her, and then she becomes upset, and she insists that she will never see the governess again.
00:38:10
Speaker
because she gets a little crazy on Flora. um And in in the series, Flora is found by the lake in the morning, and she is staring at Rebecca's ghost. And then... But it's not clear that Dani sees, you know what I mean? In the book, the governess clearly sees the ghost. Right. But in in the show, Dani doesn't see the... we don't There's no indication that Dany has seen the ghost. It's just Flora. It's just Flora seeing the ghost. Dany still has not connected that there even are ghosts yet. She just thinks that something is psychologically wrong with these kids because they lost their parents and they've been through so much and then they're their last au pair. but I mean, she's only seeing Peter Quint at this point. And she still doesn't know it's a ghost. Right. Exactly. So Flora is kind of
00:39:07
Speaker
Almost in shock. She's not really responding much. Work through her feelings. They have story time. Story time consists of Miles and Flora putting on a play. A little pantomime. And Miles presents a story about puppets who forgot their maker and mocked him. And it becomes very cringy and very awkward. Mm-hmm. Because he's talking like an adult again. Uh-huh.
00:39:37
Speaker
creepy, creepy boy. Yeah. And then luckily the play is interrupted by a phone call. But unfortunately, this phone call is where we learned that Owen's mother has passed away. Owen's the Owen the cook. That's not in the book. Correct. The cook that's not in the book. um And then Danny has another panic attack because she sees the her spirit that's been following her. So we have confirmation he's with her in the manner. So I'm just going to stick to the series for a little while here because there's not much left of the book. There aren't very many details. Yeah, like this next like few episodes, it's like back is in in the book at all characters that aren't even in the rain.
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's a lot of filler episodes. I loved them. I love them, too. I did. I'm that girl who needs the character development. I need the character backstory. I need to understand everyone's motivations or else I don't believe it. You know what I mean? Well, I think when I first watched it, like something I really don't like repetitive things. Right. I really don't. But so I think that's why I didn't love it the first time. But the second time I appreciated why it was repetitive. Yeah. If that makes sense. Like, yeah, I just like when something is repetitive and it keeps doing the same thing over and over again. Even if it's for a purpose, like I don't like sometimes I'm just like, OK, enough, enough. I got it. I got the I got the idea. I got the plot. Let's move on. But I get I'm like, OK, I understand now I get the idea behind it and I'm I'm kind of obsessed with it.
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah, I feel kind of the same way, actually. Yeah. So episode four of the series is The Way It Came, which is titled after Henry James' a short story from 1896. We learn more about Dani's backstory. And in flashbacks, Dani is engaged to her childhood friend Edmund. And one night during a date,
00:41:56
Speaker
Edmund realizes that Danny does not want to marry him and the two get into an argument in the car. As Edmund gets out of the car, he's hit by a truck and a traumatized Danny sees Edmund's spirit for the first time at the hospital. Which is the spirit that she sees in the mirror. All the time. All the time.
00:42:24
Speaker
and it's Like him with his glasses on, bright lights in the glasses. The lights of the truck just before they hit him, reflecting in the glasses. And I think that, I mean, I'm not gonna say like,
00:42:38
Speaker
I don't know, when a connection happens in this series, even when it was in Haunting Hill of Hill House, I mean, I'm going to keep bringing up that series. Me too. But when the connection happens in this Bly Manor series, it just hits so good. Like it literally hits so good. Yeah. Like the entire time I'm thinking there's it's like the scariest thing in this like... It's the scariest thing. What's going on with his eyes? Yeah, like it's just because it's a flash. Every time it's just like a quick flash of like a just a snip. Of a weird ghost with bright eyes. Yeah in the mirror and then we're getting this like slowly getting revealed of this backstory of this ghost and that kind of becomes the theme for like the second half of the series slow backstory of what these scary ghosts around here like these scary things walking around. They become slightly I don't want to say they're less scary because they're still really scary. Yeah but
00:43:32
Speaker
But like now you kind of understand. And again, you learn the, like in my case, you learn the rules. So now you know how to survive. yeah like Exactly. So she later plans, Danny later plans to leave the country without telling anyone. And Edmund's mother gives Danny Edmund's glasses before she leaves. So this is how she has the glasses at Bly Manor.
00:43:56
Speaker
And back at Bly, Danny joins the house staff at a bonfire after Owen's mother's funeral. And Jamie initiates a traditional embrace of the, or a remembrance of the deceased. And it's by throwing bones into the fire, which is why they call it a bonfire. But Danny doesn't participate in this. And Danny and Jamie decide to give Owen and Hannah some time alone. And they go off and they admit that they're falling for each other. So we had a little love story going on. I love a love story. And legit, i was love story I was so happy and excited for this because I was in love with Jamie from the minute she popped up in the series with her little sass. And like I was like, we're besties now.
00:44:54
Speaker
But then like when they started kind of falling for each other, I was like, Danny needs someone to lean on, and Jamie needs someone to take care of. So this is perfect. And then when it like happened, and I was just like, like kicking my feet, and then a ghost ruined the moment. Danny's next ruins the moment. a Jump scare. yeah Yeah, literally. Literally, yeah. h So the moment is ruined. Jamie decides to help a drunk Owen home.
00:45:24
Speaker
And later, Danny wakes up in the night in a drunken stupor. But Flora notices that the faithless doll is now in the dollhouse. So the children get up and they prevent Danny from seeing the spirit wandering the manor. Oh my God. This part kills me. It's terrifying. Yeah.
00:45:51
Speaker
and And then after this, Dani puts the children back to bed and she burns Edmund's glasses in the bonfire. Which I think this is also a part where like you really, I mean, I think you already know when you see the dollhouse that it's representing where everyone's location is in the house. But this was like really solidified it. Where, okay, the doll before was like on the ground somewhere out, like outside the dollhouse. Under the dresser room. Under the dresser. Under the dresser. Which was to indicate it was somewhere outside before.
00:46:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And now it's inside the house. And then it was the day, but remember the day that it was in the middle of the floor and she accidentally stepped on it is when the kids locked her in the closet. She asked, she asked, where do you want this? Yeah. And now it was like inside and now they all freak out. So the kids are clearly trying to protect Dani, but of course Dani has no idea. Yeah. Right. She just thinks these kids are weird.
00:46:55
Speaker
I just like the the added dollhouse like touch. I thought it was cool. i Absolutely. I will say when when Dani throws the glasses into the fire, if we step back a few minutes. Like the ghost of her fiance, former fiance is there and is like at the bonfire with her. And she kind of says to him, like, so it's just you and me now, huh?
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah. And like that's the first time she addresses him. Yeah, I love that part. She'd been avoiding him through the whole series, like scared of him covering up mirrors and you know staying away from anything that has a reflection and being bothered by him. But now she was just like, she throws the glasses in the fire and she's like, guess it's just you and me now. And then sits down and continues to drink out of her bottle of wine. Yep. I was a little jealous at the time. I didn't have any wine.
00:47:46
Speaker
Like something I really don't like about the book, which I mean, like, I mean, the book I'm like, whatever. But I hate that. Like there's no there's no backstory behind the governance. Like we have a whole backstory. There's no backstory behind any of the characters at all in the book. No one. So I think that's why I was, you know, it was boring. that Yeah. Yeah. It was boring. Yeah.
00:48:14
Speaker
and Now we're going to get into episode five. Episode five is kind of sad. No. It's my favorite episode, honestly. No, don't get me wrong. it It's definitely sad. It's definitely... if it it But I think that's why I love it is because this is when I really started to genuinely feel for these characters.
Unraveling the Haunting
00:48:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:40
Speaker
and and when i i I became invested in the outcome of this story. you know Yeah, it was definitely like a turning point and also I think it's equally like emotional and I think also like it was so frustrating. Yeah, this one was really frustrating but like not in a bad way. It also made me start to question Like literally everyone yeah yeah yeah in in the whole, like every character at this point. Like, okay, so this is the, e go ahead, Lindsay, tell them what this episode's about. What is going on and on? Episode five is called The Altar of the Dead, which yes, again, is named after a short story by Henry James from 1995.
00:49:32
Speaker
Hannah flashes back and forth between events at different points in time, some real, some imaginary. These events are the day she interviewed Owen for the cook position, the night of the bonfire when he offers to take her to Paris, and the time of Rebecca's employment at the manor when Hannah caught Peter stealing from the wind graves.
00:50:00
Speaker
What do they call it? Like whenever they're they're like dream hopping? Dream hopping, okay. Okay, yeah, that's what they call it. We also see the night that Peter is killed by the lady in the lake, who is the faceless ghost who tracks the mud into the house. Reincarnating as a ghost, Peter discovers that he can possess Miles and he shoves Hannah into a well.
00:50:30
Speaker
killing her. But because we're dream hopping, we see not only did Hannah go down the well and die, but we find out that she died before we even met her. She died the day that Dani showed up. Yep. Dani arrives at the manor right after that, which reveals that Hannah was killed right at that moment.
00:51:00
Speaker
and has unknowingly been a ghost since Danny's arrival. There's a moment before, like but ah couple or I don't know what episode it was, but it was before this episode where she's looking at a crack. A crack in the wall. And it was actually a crack at the bottom of the well. And one of the stones in the bottom of the well. yep yeah And I love this part so much when, because it's, it's We see it from Hannah's perspective, but the in the very first episode when Danny meets, shows up at the estate, meets Flora,
00:51:38
Speaker
and then turns around, Flora yells for Miles, and then Miles, and she, you know, meets Miles, and Hannah's kind of over there, and like gets kind of like startled, and was like, oh, I'm sorry, I was a million miles away. She literally died just before that, and she got distracted from realizing that she was dead. So Hannah didn't even realize she was dead. Right. Yeah.
00:52:03
Speaker
i And this had me questioning every other character in the show from this point on. I was like, wait, are the kids dead? Wait, is Jamie dead? Wait, is Owen dead? Wait, is, like, i is Danny dead? Is Uncle Henry dead? Like, i everyone was dead and I was trying to put it together. And this is why I like this is because it, usually I pick this stuff up kind of quick. And I had the idea that, oh, someone, this is going to be like some sixth sense bullshit, like somebody's dead, right? But I didn't realize,
00:52:36
Speaker
how deep it was going to go and how messed up it was going to make me. And that's definitely why I really liked this show is because I was forced to really think and then I had to know what happened. So I kept watching. Well, I noticed like through the entire series up until this point, Hannah never ate or drank anything. I was going to say that. And see, and I hadn't figured that out until that moment. And then I started really thinking about it. Mm hmm.
00:53:00
Speaker
At one point, she even gets served dinner and then she they you know she gets up and leaves. and They're like, oh, aren't you going to eat? and She's like, I'll have some later and she just wanders off. yeah she never like I remember thinking that the whole time that she was I didn't know what was going on with her I was like she I think she's dead she's got to be dead because she's literally not like drinking anything she's not eating anything and then that whole like sequence of events that was happening and then also I always get goosebumps at the part where she's had like having to continuously have conversations with Owen because he's like we have to do this again because you still don't remember like we just have to keep doing this
00:53:42
Speaker
because you have to remember and then he starts his conversation again about like start over of what their original conversation was right in that moment in the dream and I'm like oh my gosh like can you imagine like if that really did happen uh-huh like and you and like encountered that right like that would be the most terrifying thing ever And everybody, and I think what kind of messed me up is that in traditional ghost stories, it's obvious that someone's a ghost because they won't interact with the people who are alive or the people who are alive won't interact with the ghost. Yeah. And so this was the exact opposite. You know, the kids are still interacting with her. Danny's still interacting with her. Everyone's still interacting with her.
00:54:28
Speaker
I think the biggest giveaway is that Flora makes a comment. She says something about the worst thing would be that you've died, but people can still see you and hear you, but you're dead. Yes. Flora is so freaking creepy. Yeah. I don't like creepy kids, man.
00:54:50
Speaker
But it threw me off at the bonfire because Hannah was drinking out of a wine bottle. I mean, at least she was acting like it. I don't think she actually was though. No, because she kept stopping and looking at it. We do that the same time.
00:55:09
Speaker
ah well creepy
00:55:12
Speaker
haunted So that's where this app this episode actually ends, is the bonfire. We're back at the bonfire. Hannah agrees to go to Paris with Owen, only to see him toasting her goodbye as he leaves with Jamie.
00:55:29
Speaker
and Owen doesn't know like he doesn't win doesn't know time like he's only know like he when I say about the dream thing It's like in her like mind like inception, right? It's yeah her own dream so she can manipulate it So like nobody else is really there even though Owen looks like he's there. That's just her made-up dream of him. Yeah So in episode six, The Jolly Corner, which I think this one might be one of the ones that's almost an exact um almost like an exact um replication in the in the series. I don't remember if it's this one or not. But The Jolly Corner is titled after Henry James' short story from 1908. And in a flashback, it is revealed that Henry, the uncle, was having an affair with his brother's wife, Charlotte.
00:56:22
Speaker
um before before their deaths. Meaning, he is actually Flora's biological father. I wasn't surprised by this. Not either. I was like, okay, the guy is an alcoholic. He won't come home. He won't leave his office. He doesn't want to see the kids. Yeah. And he's like like... There's something more going on here. Yeah, about his brother and his the brother's wife dying.
00:56:51
Speaker
who I see what's happening. Right, exactly. But you know Dominic, his brother realizes that something is going on ah and and he gets a confession out of Charlotte and he cuts ties with Henry. He reasserts himself as Flora's father and he forbids Henry from contacting the family. Banish is him.
00:57:16
Speaker
who And Dominic and Charlotte travel to India in an attempt to save their marriage, but are killed there in an accident, which they never clarify what happens. Also, apparently their bodies are never recovered. So I don't know what happened. No no telling.
00:57:42
Speaker
curious. and in my They didn't, they died in India. Yes, they died in India. They did not die at Bly. So present day, Henry drinks heavily and refuses to answer Danny's calls when she's calling about Flora, who begins to behave strangely. And she begins sleepwalking. And at night,
00:58:08
Speaker
He calls the manor, hoping that Flora will answer, but hangs up when anybody else does. So this explains the strange phone calls that they tell. Which actually was surprising to me. That was actually a little twist to me because I didn't know that that was going to be him. I was like, who keeps calling this house? And this is where we get more into Flora dream hopping.
00:58:36
Speaker
And she's flashing back to the past in dreams about her mother, Charlotte, and a faceless boy ghost in her room. So creepy. The faceless thing really freaks me out. ahha It was definitely really creepy, but I'm not gonna lie. The little boy, like, had me messed up. I was just ah very sad for this little boy.
00:59:00
Speaker
Yeah. And he was playing with the dolls. Doll hills. That was very sad. When Flora is actually telling her mom and Henry about the the boy without a face, Henry responds that he too had a faceless ghost when he was young, who was a soldier.
00:59:19
Speaker
In the third episode, when Peter and Rebecca are talking at the kitchen table, there's a storm going on, and there's a flash of lightning that illuminates the kitchen behind Rebecca, and you can see a ghost soldier standing there. Aww. Which would have been Henry's faceless soldier. I i didn't even, I didn't notice that. no You gotta know with as many ghost words in this house, Henry and Dominic had to have seen them when they were kids. Mm-hmm, yeah. Had to have, you know.
00:59:50
Speaker
So it I wasn't surprised that they knew about them. Mm hmm. But like if you would have also known that they were like not terrifying ghosts or else there's no way you would have raised your children there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You had no encounter with this like lady of the lake. Apparently not. And like at this point, there's literally like 10, 15, 20 ghosts just wandering around. Yeah. You you had to know.
01:00:19
Speaker
Yeah, right. And I wonder what her face would have looked like at that point if she was like completely faceless or if she still had a little bit of facelift. I don't know. But Flora is speaking to Rebecca's ghost at night. And we realize that Rebecca is the cause of Flora's recent behavior, and Danny ends up seeing Rebecca and Peter.
01:00:49
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And then as she's trying to flee with flora miles knocks her unconscious So then we get into episode seven which is the two faces part two What you got crystal nothing I'm just waiting for you to tell me I'm excited. Yeah This is this is what I really get like Because everything's kind of coming together now. Mm-hmm, and I love it.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. So we have more flashbacks as Peter learns the mechanics of being a ghost at Bly Manor. He's learning the rules. He is able to possess the living temporarily, but he can do so permanently if he's invited. We also learn that if someone dies at Bly, then their ghost remains at Bly. Mm-hmm.
01:01:43
Speaker
But if they're there too long, then they lose their face along with their sense of self. And as a ghost, Peter convinces Rebecca that they can be together forever if she invites him to possess her. So Rebecca agrees, but Peter walks into the lake in her body and drowns her, which makes her a ghost as well. This part actually was really hard to watch. i don't like It really affected me emotionally. like It was rough. i Yeah, I did not like this part at all. yeah Because she thought like he was going to stay with her.
01:02:23
Speaker
because you know there Because I wasn't understanding exactly what was going on at first. And I realized that he said he was gonna stay with her almost like taking the effects of what drowning would feel like because he's like possessed in her body. right And he left her to deal with the effects of drowning on her own.
01:02:50
Speaker
And like she thought they were going to do it that together. And I don't know, like something about like just like the psychology of them and just yeah mentally, it really like really hurt me and affected me. He was such a horrible, manipulative, selfish jerk. Yeah.
01:03:14
Speaker
who It was horrible. It was really horrible. That's it. So Rebecca, um mean she's she's horrified. She feels betrayed by Peter. But Peter convinces her that using the same method, they can permanently possess Miles and Flora, which will let them start new lives together.
01:03:38
Speaker
Which is gross because Maz and Flora are brothers for brother and sister and children. Yes, I'm like, what the hell? Yeah. In the present, the two ghosts and the children take Dani into the attic while the ghosts enact this plan of possessing the children permanently. Also, I feel like, okay, whenever Dani was tied up, I feel like she could have got that out of that. I'm sorry. I thought about that too. Yeah. Stand up. What are you doing? Get on your feet. I feel like you could have gotten on your feet. You're fighting children and ghosts. Yeah. You can get on your feet. Right. Get up. Literally, she had a gag in her mouth and her hands were tied behind her back, but her feet were
01:04:21
Speaker
Yeah, like get up. So what are you doing? Run down the steps. Anything. Kick a child. Kick a child. It's acceptable at this point. Yeah. Pretty much. And now it's okay. So really kick the children. Kick the children. Any child, kick a child. Oh Lord.
01:04:49
Speaker
Hannah ends up ends up calling out to them while they're in the attic. Peter possesses Miles and he leads Hannah to the well where her body is forcing her to accept that she is a ghost. and flora While Miles is gone, Flora reveals that she and Rebecca only pretended to carry out the possession plan and Rebecca's ghost is actually still separate.
01:05:18
Speaker
And she says something really key here, and I can't remember the exact words, but Flora is basically like, I thought we were supposed to help you. Weren't we supposed to help you? And Rebecca Jessel is basically like, nobody should ever need that much from anyone, Flora. Yeah. kind of like Like it explains in a very you know few words to a child that this is not okay And we're not gonna let it happen and in that moment Danny realizes She's she's good. She's on our side. She'll help us. Mm-hmm, you know kind of like clicked at like, okay This is an ally. Mm-hmm. So at this point Danny tries to escape with Flora and
01:06:04
Speaker
she runs into the lady in lake oh my gosh this part scared me as jump scare jump scare oh wait whenever she's okay wait wait when she's running you know i gotta talk about danny trying to run away the way that she runs No, the way that she runs with Flora, she's bent at a 90 degree angle running with Flora, like like guiding Flora down the steps and outside. No, if we're running away, like I'm about to grab your hand and I'm dragging you. like We're going to run high knee out of here. Exactly. What are you talking about? Knees to ears. We're literally...
01:06:50
Speaker
We're not going to be doing whatever you're doing right now. Like, whatever you're doing is upsetting me. This is why you did not see the lady that like coming at you like this. Right. Oh, my God. Flora's freaking out, though. She's like, you know, no, we can't leave with all Miles. And like at this point, Miles is a goner. Yeah, I'm sorry. Best. Yeah. he He invited dude in like.
01:07:15
Speaker
were we We gotta say what we can, we gotta go. Yeah, gotta go. I'm actually gonna go back to the book at this point because there's still a little bit more to the series. Oh, we got a little cliffhanger here. More backstory. o But this is where the book ends. And the endings are totally different. So back in the book, the governess decides that Mrs. Gross should take Flora away to her uncle in an attempt to escape Miss Jessel's influence. And left alone with the governess, Miles confesses that he was expelled for something he said, but he can't remember what he said or who he said it to.
01:08:00
Speaker
And the ghost of Peter Quint appears in the window, and the governess shields Miles, who's trying to see the ghost. And the governess insists that Miles is safe. He's no longer controlled by the ghost. And then it turns out that Miles has died in her arms. So did the fear of Peter Quint's ghost kill him, or was it the governess smothering him to death?
01:08:30
Speaker
So I also heard one other theory because I had to Google this to like, wait, did I understand this correctly kind of thing? Cause it was, again, it's such a different ending from the show that I was like, is that what happened or did I mess this up? So I Googled it and there was another theory that I found after like,
01:08:50
Speaker
57 theories that Miles had been possessed by the ghost of Peter Quint for so long that he was already dead. And because the governess was like, you are no longer possessed in some sort of like makeshift exorcism type thing, when Peter Quint's soul or whatever left Miles, Miles had already been dead. So now he's, I don't know.
01:09:19
Speaker
I could see that too. It just meant, it was just, it isn't. And then that's it. Yeah. Anyway, it's just boring. It's done pretty much. The ending is so dumb. Yeah. I was just like, Oh, okay. Yeah. So now we're going to go back to the series. The book's done. Bye book. Bye book. See ya. And we're in episode eight, which is the romance of certain old clothes titled after the 1868 short story.
01:09:49
Speaker
This is my favorite episode. Didn't you say that about the other one? Yeah. i thought all The whole end, the whole last three, four episodes is probably my favorite or whenever Hannah's episode onward is my favorite section. Hannah's episode for sure the best, but this one ties And it's like the way that it's told. Yeah, like an old-timey story. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Yeah, it's so good. So in in this episode, we are taken back centuries when the owner of Bly Manor, Willoughby, dies, orphaning his two daughters, Viola and... I forgot her name. Perdita.
01:10:41
Speaker
birds Perdita. Perdita. Perdita. Yes. Viola marries their distant cousin, Arthur Lloyd, despite the fact that Perdita has feelings for him, which Viola doesn't know.
Viola's Curse
01:10:59
Speaker
And then after Viola and Arthur have their daughter Isabel, Viola falls ill with a lung disease.
01:11:09
Speaker
And then she ends up refusing her last rights, insisting that she will not leave. And she becomes bitter and angry. And lives for of like another six years. yeah Yeah, she ends up living way past what they expected. But the disease gets worse and worse, and she's forced to be isolated from the family.
01:11:35
Speaker
and one day she takes all of her dresses and all of her jewels and she locks them in a chest and she makes Arthur promise that he will give them to Isabel once she's old enough and big enough to wear the dresses. Perdita is no longer able to tolerate her sister's condition so she smothers Viola to death and then marries Arthur.
01:12:02
Speaker
Viola's spirit becomes trapped in the chest with the dresses and the jewelry. And then some time passes, Arthur's finances dwindle, and they're at risk of losing the house. So Perdita opens the chest hoping to sell Isabel's inheritance.
01:12:24
Speaker
and Viola's spirit kills Perdita. And the way that this is all played out in the show is so good. It's classic good story. It's so good. It's just the way top notch storytelling. Yeah, and you kind of don't know what's going on until it finally happens. I don't want to get into too much detail because I kind of want to be like,
01:12:51
Speaker
go see for yourself. I mean, if you're only gonna watch one episode, this is the one. This is the one. No, you gotta watch the whole thing. you don't But you don't need any of the other episodes for this one to make sense. You know what I mean? It's a story on its own. It's its own ghost story. Yeah. And it is...
01:13:11
Speaker
that creepy it kind of starts out as this beautiful story, this happy, you know, like they lost their father, but they're lovely girls and they make a plan and they're going to be independent and they're going to be strong. And then they, you know, the oldest one, Mary, so that they can keep the house. And then they have, she has a daughter and she's in love with the daughter and she wants to make sure that her daughter is grows up to be strong and, you know, it's you, it's me, it's us to sing it to her daughter. And, you know, so like, and then she gets sick and then the sister betrays her and the like, it it just like builds and builds. And then the next thing you know, she's sleeping.
01:13:53
Speaker
and walking. Like what? Like the repetition. It was so well told. It was so well told. So Arthur ends up finding Perdita's body in the attic and Arthur fears that the chest is cursed. So he s sinks it in the lake on the property before he leaves with Isabel. Thus making Viola the lady in the lake. We're very angry. yeah He's a sister, is the lady in the attic who was singing earlier. That one really got me. I was like, that's that girl in the attic. I know her. She spared the shit out of me earlier. so Every night, Viola or the lady in the lake
01:14:48
Speaker
is searching the manor for her daughter. It's really sad. And she kills anyone who gets in her path. and She's not like going hunting for someone to kill. She has a specific path she walks and a specific path she walks back. If you happen to be on that path, you're a goner. Yeah.
01:15:10
Speaker
And she's just like looking for like she's just waiting for her daughter to be back in that room and getting to the point that she's been there for so dang long that she doesn't even remember. She's like, I know I'm supposed to be here for a child and yeah encountering a child at one point.
01:15:32
Speaker
and taking the child, thinking that that's what she's supposed to be doing. That's a little faceless boy. The little boy in Florida broke my heart. Yeah. Yeah. So sad. And then again, if you die at Bly, your ghost is there. yeah You die at Bly, you stay at Bly. Yep. So all of those spirits are now trapped on the grounds. And her memory fades, like we were saying, and then her face also fades.
01:16:02
Speaker
Finally, episode nine is The Beast in the Jungle, which is titled after the 1903 novella. And this episode picks up where we left off. Viola is dragging Dani by the throat, and she is intercepted by Flora. Flora reminds Viola of Isabel, so she takes Flora.
01:16:29
Speaker
and she is taking her to the lake to drown her. And Dani saves Flora by letting Viola's ghost permanently inhabit her body the same way that Peter did to Miles. And Crystal, you you said it earlier, the the phrase that Viola uses. It's you, it's me, it's us. Yes. So that's the phrase that they use to permanently inhabit bodies.
01:16:58
Speaker
And now that Danny is Viola, their their spirits are combined. All of the trapped souls are released from Bly. And... Including Peter Quinn. Yep. So Miles does not die. Right. So Miles does not die. Exactly. And that also means that Hannah,
01:17:27
Speaker
her spirit is released and she like because the uncle actually comes back and he's like because he like has a sense to come back help them and the lady the like actually almost kills him and Owen and Jamie somehow get there for some reason. Are they both having a dream? Yeah, to come back there and they come save the uncle. But whenever the uncle was like almost like almost dead. Owen starts getting from CPR. Yeah, Hannah told the uncle. The ghost uncle is still there. Yeah. Ghost Hannah was like, tell Owen I love him.
01:18:07
Speaker
She explained that i'm star in they go check the well yeah she's like her body is, and her last words for Owen are, tell him I love him, and the rest is, well, just, and she disappears. yeah This is a reference to a monologue given by Nellie in The Haunting of Hill House.
01:18:31
Speaker
Nellie, who was played by Victoria Pedretti, who plays Danny, tells her siblings that she loved them completely. The rest is confetti. So the rest of that quote is, and the rest is just confetti, so. Yeah. good I wouldn't have known. I love Hill House. Yeah. So Henry has the children now. He's going to raise them.
01:19:01
Speaker
Owen and Jamie do find Hannah's body in the will. and can we wait Can we talk about how Owen, what he does for her? Yes. Okay. Because that really, that really freaking got me, man. Like I was at, I had tears in my eyes right now. yeah Whenever he was like, she, because I think at this point we're hearing the narrator. Storyteller. Yes. Yeah. The storyteller. And she's saying that Owen never left Hannah's side whenever they took the body out. Clean. Took her to the corner.
01:19:39
Speaker
insisted that he would be the one to wash the body, which he did gently with lavender scented soap. That really got me, man. like That actually really got me. Yep. That was a beautiful, beautiful moment after a horrible, scary story. I was like, wow, that's like so fucking sad.
01:20:01
Speaker
Don't do that again, please. This is supposed to be a scary story, not a sad story. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they just said that. That's like so tragically romantic. no and We haven't even gotten to the ending yet. Oh my god, that ending. Dude, so I cried. Go, go, go. So Danny and Jamie leave for America to start a life together. And after nine years,
01:20:31
Speaker
Danny starts to see Viola's reflection.
Danny's Sacrifice
01:20:34
Speaker
and worries that her appearance may harm Jamie. Which is something she's been like worried about since this whole thing happened. Like she sensed that this, was like she always sensed it in the back. This spirit is still in her. She knows it's there. At some point it's going to force its way out. Yeah. She described it as the beast in the jungle. it was It was there. It was hiding. It was waiting. Yeah. And Jamie's like, do you want me to stay with you while we wait for your beast? Yup.
01:21:05
Speaker
Yep. um you
01:21:10
Speaker
Danny dand and Jamie go to visit Owen's restaurant in France. This is nine years later after the occurrence of lie. And Owen reveals that Flora and Miles don't remember any of the events at Bligh Manor. Only happy memories.
01:21:33
Speaker
They recognize Hannah's picture, but they don't, they don't really remember.
01:21:40
Speaker
So Danny wakes up one night after having a dream of where she's harming Jamie and her hand is around Jamie's neck. So Danny knows that it's time to go. Not wanting to risk Jamie's life, she returns to blind manner.
01:22:00
Speaker
and she drowns herself in the lake, taking Viola's place as the lady in the lake. It is now revealed that the storyteller is actually a middle-aged Jamie, and the story ends with, it's the wedding reception of a now grown-up Flora with Miles, Owen, and Henry.
01:22:25
Speaker
Oh my God. And whenever that whole scene where they're looking at everyone and then they show it changes to like their younger selves, that will get me every freaking time. And no doubt that was beautiful, but it's the very end when she goes back to her room. Oh my gosh. Back in her hotel room. Jamie waits by the door hoping to reunite with Danny's ghost who watches over her as she falls asleep with a hand on her shoulder.
01:22:57
Speaker
She takes these measures to ensure that Danny has a way to come back to her. So she fills her bathtub with water. She fills her sink with water. She keeps her door cracked and she sits and waits for Danny. I can't. I literally can't because she hopes so bad. Well, she also says that Danny would like never do like the things that viny love Viola would ever do and she doesn't, you know, haunt like the grounds or anything, but she leaves the door open like every single night. And she fills up the water every single night and just the sliver of hope that she'll see her. Yep.
01:23:42
Speaker
Yup. And then this is me reading the book looking like Booboo the Fool because I- Where's the romance? Right? oh This book sucked compared to the show. Well, I guess we know our final verdicts. Don't bother. I'm like, what is this? Like, where's Jamie? Where's Owen?
01:24:06
Speaker
they They had like a, they had one character that was mentioned once. I think he picked up the the mail or dropped off the mail or something. His name was Luke. And I almost thought that was Owen. And I was like, oh, no, I guess not. No. Oh my gosh. Like even Uncle Henry, like don't get me wrong. Like it's not like he was a major character, but he was important enough.
01:24:33
Speaker
that I felt like, like you, you know, yeah, he was like drunk uncle Henry, but you learned that he's drunk uncle Henry. because he's so heartbroken. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's also at the very end, right before the wedding, you know, grown up Flora is talking about how like she has like this whole like, like speech or something that she's saying to older Jamie. Say like talking about how she cannot, she's about to get married and she just like cannot imagine, oh my God, I'm going to cry.
01:25:12
Speaker
I can't imagine living without her soon to be husband, that they're so perfectly matched together and this is a life that's so comfortable yeah in those those beautiful silences they have together and that she can't imagine if anything ever happened to him, what she would do. and Of course, she's saying this to Jamie. Yeah, Jamie gets it. Oh my God. It's horrible, but also amazing.
01:25:42
Speaker
But she also, Flora also says that like, that that wasn't a ghost story. That was a love story. And I wanted to be like, shut up. We know it.
Critique and Central Question
01:25:51
Speaker
You didn't have to, that was the one part in the movie or in the show that I was just like, why do you have to say out loud what we've all already figured out?
01:25:58
Speaker
Well, that that leaves Jamie to respond with, oh, well, when you tell the story again, make sure you change that in the beginning, which means that she's going to help keep Danny's memory alive because she's encouraging her to continue telling the story to other people. But this leads us to our question of the episode. Knowing its history, would you take a live in position at Bly Manor?
01:26:28
Speaker
Hell no.
01:26:32
Speaker
You would? I would because I would collect those ghostly cats and I would make sure that they were taken care of and I would try to find out their stories so that their memories stayed alive and I would write them all down like I would make I would take care of them. crystal
Humorous Ghost Interactions
01:26:44
Speaker
ah ghost whisper I mean, that's what it took. All it took was that ghost in the attic singing a little jingle and I was done. I would go upstairs and be singing along with her. I'd be like, what are we singing today? What are we singing today, Perdita? Absolutely. We've been learning some new hits.
01:27:04
Speaker
yeah teaching them choreography i would i'd be like come on guys dan's class Do you know how to spell I'll teach you I think you know like it's just the the face like the faceless the faceless thing is creepy AF But it was more creepy when Flora put that doll face on that guy um the face yeah case big yeah so That was not helpful. Get you some eyeliner and draw on some eyes if you need some, but none of this doll face crap. I mean, now that we know the story of them, it feels really sad and I feel really bad for them. We would have a party.
01:27:42
Speaker
But and i would buy I would be scared. And if I knew that it was the lady of the lake that was the problem, I would tape off her path and be like, nobody step in this area between the hours of 11 and four, whatever. You know what I mean? Like like this um this path is off limits. Can we bring in the Winchester's? but Just have them salted or something. There you go. There you go. Just caution tape. it would just be No, it would be like salt and and sage. like Like the whole way. Like we'll salt lamps and sage. like
Living with Ghosts
01:28:20
Speaker
Lindsay, what about you?
01:28:22
Speaker
You know, probably pre-Danny, probably not, but like post-Danny, yeah. I could deal with like the one lady of the lake that just walks around. Oh, yeah. That'd be easy. yeah know i just I feel like the if the kids could survive, if that family survived, for the most part, like... That family survived, but the centuries of families before that, there were so many deaths in that house. But I know the rules, so it won't be me.
01:28:49
Speaker
That's fair. I'm just going to put up the tape, the caution tape. like And if someone tells you to stay in bed at night, you stay in bed at night. It's not that hard, folks. It's not that hard.
Conclusion and Farewell
01:28:58
Speaker
People visit and you're like, just to let you know. Right? No midnight snackies. Stay in bed. Mm-hmm.
01:29:07
Speaker
I move all the bedrooms to the one side, just be like, we're all over here tonight. It's a good wing, not the forbidden wing. Right? It's forbidden for a reason, folks. Don't get curious. And end with that, our time at Bligh has come to a close.
01:29:27
Speaker
and Check out our show notes for more information on what we discussed in this episode, including the question of the episode. Don't forget to follow Rate Review and download our podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Check us out on social media. We have Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. This is where you'll find our reading schedules, sneak peeks, and bonus material for each episode.
01:29:53
Speaker
And you can read along with us and send us your recommendations for adaptations we should cover through our book adaptation submission form. May your nights be quiet and your windows empty. And as always, we hope to see you in the next chapters based on the book. Bye!