Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Business of Machining - Episode 130
232 Plays6 years ago
Portland, Oregon. Autodesk Fusion 360 Academy Day 2. Sans the glitz, glam, and exuberance of Autodesk University Las Vegas, the close-nit vibe and Fusion focused course material makes for an amazing time.
Saunders shares an AWESOME Fusion 360 hack from Rob Lockwood's 5-Axis Fixturing Course.
IT'S A SMALL WORLD During the event, Saunders has dinner with Don Grant from Helical/HarveyTool, the same person Grimsmo met at Autodesk Toronto in July. Turns out, Don had a sweet solution for Grimsmo's 3/32 problem!
TOOL MORTALITY...or IMMORTALITY
(may be an exaggeration but...just go with it)
During critical knife handle milling, 3/32 4-flute endmills were dying within 1 pallet, which means having to re-work each pallet (PAINFUL) BUT---the good news is the Helical 5-flute endmill coated for titanium has lasted through 17 PALLETS AND IS STILL GOING STRONG!
NOT COOL, BRUH. AC gets repaired only to break down again two days later. Although the Nak LOVES the heat and is churning out uber-consistent parts...the lapping machine begs to differ!
How's the TORNOS? An expensive coding mistake serves as reminder to quadruple check code AND make sure the post is smooth, refined, and operating without requiring manual manipulation.
Home Sweet Home Grimsmo and FAM are moving into their first home!
SHADOW PEOPLE The desire to see a day in the life of other shop owners has remained strong for Saunders, especially if he could do it in stealth mode. Everyone tends to change behavior slightly in the presence of company or a camera.
Corncob, Triangles, & Toblerones The new tumbler that emerged from a trade deal has dividers. Erik tosses his SAGA into the corncob section to see how it holds up.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction from Portland, Oregon
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the business effort machining episode 130. My name is John Saunders and my name is John Grimsmoth. Sorry for my faux pas. It is very early. I am dialing in from the beautiful city of Portland, Oregon, actually in a great mood on day two of the Autodesk Fusion 360 Academy here.
00:00:24
Speaker
It's so awesome. I'm jealous.
FOMO and Event Comparison
00:00:25
Speaker
I've seen all the pictures you guys post up and I'm like, was it the right decision to not go? I don't know, but that's okay. Yeah, no, it's funny. You ever heard the term FOMO?
00:00:36
Speaker
Yes. Okay. It's like a newer term that I, my wife. Yeah. I heard it from my dad first. So don't have FOMO because there's no point in having FOMO, but I will say this, um, no disrespect for those, for those that don't know what it means is fear of missing out. Um, this is better than AU.
00:00:58
Speaker
Really? Yeah. I don't mean the Las Vegas glitz and glam and expense and it's all fusion. It's a smaller space so you don't have to like run around as much. The hospitality is amazing but then it's
Networking and Fan Interactions
00:01:12
Speaker
just the people. I've gotten to meet so many fans, so many other makers, so many other folks like talking shop like you just you have these conversations in the
00:01:20
Speaker
in the Q&A session after a speech and then that guy continues and trickles out people like Carl Bass is here and he's just like hanging out talking to everybody and it's not there's mob scene Adam Savage has been hanging out he's the like paid speaker but he's also been just hanging out and
00:01:41
Speaker
But everybody, it's great. It's 100% your audience, like our friends and our people. Whereas you go to AU and you don't know anybody and you're the 4%, the fusion people. Yeah, exactly. So I told them, I was like, look, as far as I'm concerned, a huge hit. So they think they said they're going to do it again. And then I said, would you be willing to do one like, I don't know, Boston, East Coast, Midwest?
00:02:09
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So good things, though. Yeah. Well, even the Autodesk Toronto event that I went to, there were only 30 people. But it was really cool. It was fun. So like a bigger, more official fusion version of that might be sick. Yeah.
Tool Chipping Challenges and Solutions
00:02:28
Speaker
Actually, we were sitting at dinner last night with a group of people, including the helical guys, and they were like, yeah, so Grimsmo, Grimsmo's using one of our knives, it's early, titanium. And it was funny because it's like a small world thing. Was it one of the two guys that I talked to? Yeah, Don. Yeah, Don Grant. Okay, let me talk about that for a second. So, because I have results that I emailed him about the other day. So I've been having this problem with this one tool, it's a three 30 second foreflute.
00:02:58
Speaker
and milk coated for titanium. We're doing critical milling in our handles. And we're trying to hit a few tenths, probably five to eight tenths or whatever.
00:03:11
Speaker
We have go no go pins that just either they work or they don't. But I've tried four different brands of tools and they all chip out. The corners just disappear quickly, like in one palette. And then we have to rework every palette. So we've been reworking palettes for months now and it's painful. So I go to the Toronto Autodesk thing, talked to Don Grant from Helical Harvey. And his first reply was, well, you've got to try this five flute fancy end mill.
00:03:39
Speaker
It just sounds like marketing pitch. It just sounds like you're trying to sell me a really expensive tool, but okay, I'll order six. I'll try them out. It's like a $68 US end mill for a tiny tool. For 1.32? Yeah. No, for 3.32.
00:03:55
Speaker
Yeah, still, holy cow. That's like a $12 end mill. Exactly, exactly. So I've tried Lakeshore, I've tried IMCO, I've tried YG, I've tried OSG, I've tried a different Harvey, like a kind of more regular Harvey. They all chip out. I can't figure it out. I've played with my speeds and feeds. I've played with entry, everything. Can't figure it out. So he's like, try this tool. And we talked a lot about stuff.
00:04:17
Speaker
previous tools would die after one pallet. This tool is going on 17 pallets and still going strong and it's perfect. What? Yeah, it's nuts. Holy. Every hole. Perfect. I've looked at the tool under the microscope. It's it's lightly worn, but it's not abused. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, like, this is this is incredible. I don't know what's different. Awesome. It's a quarter inch shank that next down, whereas all the other tools are eighth inch shank.
00:04:44
Speaker
So there's a lot of Yeah, sure. But like, whoa, shouldn't be. I don't know. Yeah.
Learning and Persistence in Techniques
00:04:50
Speaker
It's a lot. Don did one of the classes. I went to three classes yesterday. And he's a character. But he was like, Look, there's two things that kill end mills heat and vibration. And then we walk through all of these factors. And
00:05:02
Speaker
That was a class I don't think I learned a ton in because I know my way around adaptive and the concept of adaptive and radial engagement. But I think that's what's maybe true about where you and I are. Sometimes you've got to sit through an hour class now to learn that one or two nuggets that you would have never otherwise learned. I think I got the same kind of 20 minute presentation from him in Toronto. It was great. Yeah. So it's like picking up on those, that's what it is all about. And that was like, okay, this is cool.
00:05:33
Speaker
Nice. Awesome. Well, good for you. I got to get the, I got to play around with that recipe. Then that sounds like awesome. Yeah. I'm totally blown away. It's a helical or Harvey. It's a Harvey. Harvey. Oh, okay. Harvey is everything under quarter inch. Not really true. No. Well, that's generous. That's no, it's, I, it's funny because it's there. I think conundrum, which is that Harvey actually goes up to like half inch and helical is going smaller, but, um, yeah. Um,
00:06:04
Speaker
helical is, we've had a lot of luck with their stuff. We were talking to them last night about, okay, when I'm running a Fitaxis part, let's say it's a part like the shape of your iPhone, and you're holding it down by the button. So you've got this tall, thin part sticking out. If I tip my A or B axis over, and I want to do an adaptive or contouring work on the outside edge of that part,
00:06:26
Speaker
it's the whole part is a giant spring. Yeah, it's really thin. So I want to minimize axial load and I want to push all that tool load radially almost like the opposite of a high feed mill. And so we were talking about like, can we do that with some sort of a like crazy low helix angle on the tool? Okay.
00:06:46
Speaker
So like almost straight flutes you mean? Yeah. Well, so then normally the lowest you'll see is like 35, maybe 30. He's going to send me a part number for a 22 degree that I think we're going to, it's like a quarter inch tool. It's not particularly expensive and I just want to have fun and see.
00:07:05
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. It's it's it's reminds me of a thing I was talking with a customer not customer fan last night about which is like, how do you balance sticking to what you know, versus recognizing you can learn by getting outside of your comfort zone. Yeah.
00:07:24
Speaker
It's really good. Like there's a point of Grimsmode saying, Hey, look, no, no, you understand this is a $12 tool. It lasts two pallets. I don't need to, like, I've got to focus on other things right now. I'm not going to go disrupt that. I know this versus, Hey, let's, let's go solve a problem that you, I guess you would call it a problem, but not really. I mean, you could make knives. You just, yeah, but it's been a problem. It's, it's been a pain in the butt. Got it.
00:07:49
Speaker
So yeah, I'm blown away. It's working. I'm like, this is crazy. Let's see how long it lasts, and then if the next one will last equally long. And then if so, I'm happy for now. Already, I'm saving money versus blowing out other brand tools, Lakeshore, et cetera, so quickly. Something's wrong with my setup or code or whatever, but whatever, I can't find it, and this tool is fixing everything.
00:08:13
Speaker
Well, it's not even just the economics of the purchase price of the end mill. It's the fact that you have the hassle, the tracking, literally the time to pull a tool out and put it back in. Yeah, exactly. It's a big deal. That's why I want to look at more hydraulics for the UMC. You can get from McMaster these, what do they call them? Constant shank drills. Everything under an eighth of an inch still has a eighth inch shank or quarter inch shank.
00:08:38
Speaker
So I can have five hydraulic holders in a bunch of these drills and I don't ever have to go look for that stupid, you know, one millimeter collet or, or three 30 second collet. Because that's the beauty of a lot of the coolant through drills is cause they all have like six mil shanks or quarter and shanks or something. They're standardized, but they're more expensive.
00:08:59
Speaker
So that's the funny thing about these McMaster drills is they're still like, I mean, they're a one eighth in shank, you know, and then smaller drill flute, but they're under $10. Okay. Yeah. For carbide drill. Oh, geez. Yeah. Are you on that Harvey tool? Are you using the same holder, same collet, same setup, same code?
00:09:20
Speaker
Huh. The only difference is before it was programmed for a four flute and then I threw a five flute in there and just left it. So the chip load would be slightly altered based on the extra flute, but it works. Arguably more than slightly. Yeah. I mean, 20, 25%. Yeah. Like small numbers thing just because they're small to us doesn't mean they're not significant to the tool work.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah, so the other classes, Kevin Ellington did a class on Fusion 360 cam, thinking outside
Fusion 360 Workshop Insights
00:09:59
Speaker
the chips. So it basically talked about everything you would, not everything, but a lot of things that you would use or benefit from in Fusion 360, not in the manufacturing workspace. So basically, the design, the modeling environment, things about the structure of your file, joints, origins, work holding, and patch workspace. Nice.
00:10:13
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah, it's cool.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, actually, it'd be really good class for your thinking about your current because you need it actually was perfect because that segued into the second class that I took, which was Rob Lockwood's class on basically on five axis fixturing, which I think they'll make these available. And if they do, it'll be free and open to anybody. So you should watch that because they ought to rock your world. Nice.
Advanced CAM Setups and Fixturing
00:10:45
Speaker
Ed and I were like, would you? Rob did a good job and it built off of Kevin's class in an unplanned manner.
00:10:51
Speaker
But ways of building in setups all spoil the big takeaway, which is freaking genius. So you know in Fusion 360 when you create a new setup and you have to tell it what is the model part or what is the stock or what is the fixture, right? So that requires clicks. It requires thinking. It requires expanding and collapsing trees sometimes or even light bulbs. What Rob realized is kind of a hack is that
00:11:18
Speaker
If you create a master file, he uses the word template, which is only confusing because this is not fusion 360 templates in the defined template function. But if you create a new file as like a master file, and in it, you create a component for your part, a component for your stock and a component for your fixture.
00:11:39
Speaker
if you can then create setups, especially for five axis that are defined in their contents and defined in their orientation. And then if you dump in things like stock fixtures and work pieces into those as sub components, because they're sub components of the thing that has already been defined in sticks, you don't have to do any work. It's just all there. Interesting. I think I'd have to see it to fully get it.
00:12:08
Speaker
No, no, so simple. When you have, let's say you're using a stock piece of stock as a as a from body, instead of a like stock that's just inch dimensions. So you would have to right now go and click from body and then pick the body out of the cat tree, right? True. So instead, let's say you create a Kern master. And in it, you have op one, and op one is defined as using a component that's called stock in your CAD side. Okay, you
00:12:36
Speaker
You save that, and then when you have a piece of stock, you either just import it as an xref component, or you just create it underneath that stock component. And you've never had to re-identify it, because when you pick a component, it includes all subcomponents by default. OK, I think I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
Master Files and Component Organization
00:12:54
Speaker
Freaking awesome. That's cool. I can't wait to try that. And then you would just, every new part you make, you start with that template. You start with that base model.
00:13:04
Speaker
Exactly, which is the opposite of what I do now, which has frankly worked really well, which is I have all my fifth access stuff saved as workpiece fixtures or setups, and then I get my file and I pull the vice or the works holding into the file. Now what we'll do is the opposite. We'll have the part and you'll open up your master file and you'll import the part into that and just use a joint to put it or line it correctly, update your stock size, and then in Robson case, all of your
00:13:33
Speaker
basic facing and 3d adaptives, which are model aware are already done without a single click. Oh, yeah. Well, yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah, I think Rob wants to do like YouTube content on this. So I wouldn't I'm not gonna step on his toes on that. But somehow or another, we got to we got to get this out because it's really good. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
00:14:01
Speaker
Sorry, I'll stop talking. What's been going with you? It's been good. Little things. Our air conditioner was fixed on Monday and it broke on Wednesday. Oh, no. And apparently now the compressor is toast and he wants to replace it with a $15,000 unit. And we're like, what? And he wants you to pay for it? I don't know. It's unclear between us or the landlord. But we're moving. I'm not going to pay for that.
00:14:31
Speaker
Does he know you're moving? No, not yet. Yeah, well read your lease. I mean, you have rights. Yeah, in the lease it says tenant agrees to maintain a track unit, but not replace. I don't know. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. How is it hot? It's pretty warm. Yeah, it's quite hot. Got it. Hmm.
00:14:55
Speaker
You could worst case, I'm thinking outside of the box, worst case you could buy one of those like $3,000 portable units and then sell it for two grand when you move. I mean, that's a, that's, it costs you a thousand dollars versus. I never thought about the bigger portable units. Like we have a little one for our house. Interesting. Maybe I'll look into that. I thought about one a lot before we committed to the one we got. Yeah.
00:15:26
Speaker
Yeah. What tonnage one did you buy for the shop? 10 ton, two stage. 10 ton, two stage. OK, just mental note for next time. And we could have gotten by with this. So that's for a 4,000 square foot room with 15 foot ceilings. And we could have gotten by with a seven and a half ton. But we also have that shop, the Fab Bay.
00:15:53
Speaker
which we were going to like seal off, but I actually think we're going to just leave that roll up garage door between the two bays open and that'll kind of, you know, it'll residually cool that off a little. We'll wait to see when the first electric bill comes to see how sustainable. I wonder if that would overwork your unit because now you're trying to cool, I don't know. No, they said it should be okay. Okay, cool.
00:16:16
Speaker
And we've honestly been keeping the unit. I think I mentioned this last week. The shop's been at like 77 and it feels, oh my God, it's just, it's wonderful. Oh yeah, totally fine. You know what's funny about the heat is our Nakamura lathe loves the heat. The parts are super consistent. They don't wander all over the place. You open the door and the parts don't change right away because it just loves the heat. Whereas the lapping machine hates the heat.
00:16:43
Speaker
The plate warps and the it just gets hot and it's not happy at all. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah, I was sitting there talking to Steven from Forsprung last night, who also has your late like it's just it's cool. Nice. Yep. How's the tornos?
Costly Error and Lessons Learned
00:17:05
Speaker
Good. I made a mistake.
00:17:11
Speaker
I think I told you on the WhatsApp chat. Yeah. I made a code mistake and it got very expensive. The machine is fine, but I toasted the high-speed spindle and five grand to replace it. Oh, John. But live and learn. And it's- Lesson learned? Yeah, lesson learned. I know exactly what I did wrong. No, no, no. What is the lesson learned?
00:17:38
Speaker
I mean, quadruple check your code for sure, but it's pushing me. I'm going to sit down with Lawrence and we're going to come up with a proper post for, for the tortoise, uh, so that I can, so the fusion will output what I need it to. So I don't have to like hand massage every piece of code and remove tool calls and all this stuff. Um, cause for a lot of the milling operations, I'm using the Maury three axis mill post and it makes good code, except there's a couple of tool calls here and there that I have to go at delete. Um,
00:18:09
Speaker
that's not even that hard to edit. No, it's not. But that's for this operation. And then turning is from my Nakamura post and then add some stuff here. And it's not going to be that bad. But yeah, it just goes to show that posts can be a big deal, especially for machines that aren't standard, like 3-axis mill kind of thing. Yes. Yeah, I didn't understand why you would care about a post until
00:18:36
Speaker
More like we start realizing automation integration work like different machines different styles of yeah Well, I'm sorry. That's really I mean, yeah joking aside about my disdain for lays. That's not funny or cool at all Yeah, it just crashed into it. It just it did a X sideways move while thread milling just like mid thread mill it just moves five inches to the X and then So just broke the tool off
00:19:04
Speaker
it broke the thread in my law for sure. And the sub spindle hit the electric live tool and then...
00:19:15
Speaker
Luckily, local armed out. And now moving the live tool feels chunky. Like, gong, gong, gong. Got it. So I'm going to send it back to the company Mayrat and see if they can rebuild it as well as buying a new one. Because then, you know, at least they'll have a backup at some point, depending on the cost of the rebuild. So yeah. Have you played with man? Not manual, let's see. NC setups? No.
00:19:45
Speaker
So I don't know if this would solve the problem you're thinking. I think it will presently, if not in the future, which is when you had a file, it's actually perhaps a wonderfully unique situation for something like yours,
Manual NC Setups Potential
00:19:59
Speaker
where in one file, you can have different setups or different operations assigned to different posts. Okay, as far as options, like chooseable options in the post, you mean?
00:20:10
Speaker
Well, no, just simply like, okay, it's actually kind of ironic that Fusion hasn't handled this better to date because I can have a very simple part that gets plasma or water jet cut, then milled, then turned. And why do I need to go in and manually reselect from a wide variety of posts each time? And so manual NC lets you create these, not manual NC setups, lets you create these sort of like,
00:20:39
Speaker
a level above a normal setup that not only includes which default post it is, but some parameters around the naming convention options and so forth. Nice, yeah, I'm gonna have to play with that. That should be able to let you take, I don't know if you could post it all out in one file. Camp Leak could certainly merge that together, but basically you could take a couple of setups that included a mix of turning and milling and push it out correctly without having to worry about fat fingering.
00:21:06
Speaker
the wrong post, Joyce. Cool. I'm glad the machine's okay. It's cutting parts. You're making stuff otherwise fine. I haven't since. That's right after we hang up. I'm going to go. I got to check a few things. Make sure the sub's been Alex and why are still where they're supposed to be. Like nothing went out. Got it. It's probably fine though.
00:21:28
Speaker
So yeah, and there's this stupid button on the main spindle side. It's just a button on the controller right under the door button. So I hit it all the time that prevents the Z axis, like the headstock spindle from moving. So if you want to do a air quote dry run, move the spindle back, push this button, then the Z never moves. So you can do air cutting and just cut here, except it doesn't work if you accidentally hit it when the stock is out.
00:21:55
Speaker
and then it stays out and then your tools crash into the part. So I broke a spot drill and a drill without even knowing what was happening.
00:22:04
Speaker
And I threw a cool carbide $60 drill. And I'm like, what just happened? I crashed the sub spittle. The main spittle should be fine. And then I finally found this stupid button. So I physically removed the button from the control panel this morning. And I'm like, screw you button. I never knew. I'm thinking you're just going to 3D print a cap to put over it. You went for the nuclear option. Yeah. So I'm feeling better about that. Oh, man.
00:22:33
Speaker
Well, from an outside perspective, and I say this is your friend, slow down. Like that's what I worry about is you've got these amazing machines and
00:22:43
Speaker
I don't like seeing you hand edit code. I mean, who am I to tell you that you've done it for years quite well, but it's until when does it become a real issue or problem? It becomes so complicated and difficult that, I mean, not difficult because I'm getting good at it, but if you overlook one thing, if you miss one thing, you're screwed. A mistake will happen and you didn't even see it coming.
00:23:08
Speaker
That's the beauty of a solid post is it just outputs good code. You never have to think about it. You never have to check it. And once you get to that point, like when you output something to your Haas, you just use the Haas post and you know, it's going to work. Right. And for my mill is fanic post. Perfect for the leads. It's been a lot more complicated than that. And they're just.
00:23:31
Speaker
they're more complicated layouts and there's not the post out there yet. That's perfect for it. There is apparently a Nakamura post from Autodesk that I haven't tried yet, but it should be pretty solid. But yeah.
00:23:44
Speaker
And it actually was sort of a side benefit that just blew my mind about Rob's presentation was, OK, so if you have a five-axis part, and in this template or setup, you always know the stock is always defined, so you can change the size of the stock. But it always has the four sides, and orientation is there. He has, as his first two ops, or one op,
00:24:14
Speaker
a probing for out of the things out of the new extensions options like it's, it's probing to verify not probing to set your coordinate system, because your coordinate system there is usually driven off of the single point system like the rock locker or the what's the line version quick, something quick, something. Yeah.
00:24:35
Speaker
But basically, Rob has really focused on, he's at a different level at his company now. It's not always him running the machine. So he needs to have this scalable and sustainable infrastructure for folks to run parts and not crash expensive machines or have problems. And so when you just quickly dump in a part file and then it updates the stock size, and then you go to your setups, already created the first two setups, do a verification to make sure
00:25:02
Speaker
that when you run that code, it makes sure the stock size matches what you put in there. Heck yes, that's freaking awesome. That's amazing. Eric from Orange Vice, we've been emailing back and forth and he was saying he always does a Z probing op even on the horizontals just to make sure that the operator put the right stock in, loaded the right program. He's like, you wouldn't believe how often those two get
00:25:26
Speaker
get done wrong. The concept of running unattended needs to be checked because it's too easy to make a mistake when everything else should be perfect. There's no should. There's no room for should.
00:25:46
Speaker
But it's also awesome. Last week, Ed made, I think, three parts. Jared also made a part on the UMC, and I didn't even know what it was, but just not involved in any which way. That was awesome. Through Camp Fleet and everything? Oh, yeah. Through Truth. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, again, it's easy. Getting to that basic
00:26:09
Speaker
The basic use of it is now super easy. Our shared video that I use to let people know how to do that is like three minutes long. Yeah, I can send it to you if you need it, but it's not hard. That's cool. Yeah. So what's going on this week? This week, dude, we get the keys to our house tomorrow.
Personal Life Updates and New Beginnings
00:26:31
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. On the personal side, that is super duper exciting. So we're packing, we went to the insurance place yesterday, go to the lawyers today, sign the paperwork, and then move on Sunday.
00:26:44
Speaker
Congratulations. It goes well. It's funny because all the closing fees and all the money you have to have in your account in order to get the financing for the house, they overestimate it by quite a lot. So we get the final bill and Meg's like, dude, we have a lot of extra money now. We were expecting this to be a lot more expensive. It's funny. Oh, good. That's great. It's awesome.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah. So we move on Sunday and then we'll sleep there Sunday night. Kids are excited. Oh, that's cool. Can't wait. That's really exciting. Yep. Yeah. So that's what's personal work-wise. Um, just keep it going. I got to get this Swiss fixed today and like not fixed, but like confidently running again today. Um, and then.
00:27:33
Speaker
we're trying to get better about scheduling the latest work. Like looking into the future, being like next Tuesday, we're gonna make these parts and things are coming up next. And here's the inventory of these. So we're working a lot on that right now.
00:27:48
Speaker
Is that even remotely done outside of your head right now? Yes. We have spreadsheets for that and we're using ProShop more and more for this kind of stuff too. It's kind of put all these systems together into one thing that everybody can understand. Got it.
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's something I wanted to ask like Rob about more. So they have four, basically four five axis machines and I didn't, we did a quick tour of his day job and I wanted to kind of see, it didn't even occur to me to think because I was kind of just
00:28:24
Speaker
all struck at how much there was to see and learn, but what is the workflow and how do you get, you know, obviously sometimes stuff needs to get triaged or rushed through and how do you plan for that? It's funny because those are the deep questions that you want to ask, but as you're in the new shop looking around like glitz and glamour and just seeing cool stuff, you don't think to ask that until you leave. And then you're like, man, if I were there all day, that's the kind of question I would be asking.
00:28:52
Speaker
Right. Somehow at some point in time, I wish there was a way of doing more industry shadowing. I would love to shadow you, but again, in a way that you don't even know that I'm there. Take your friend to work day kind of thing. Right, right.
00:29:09
Speaker
But it always changes so much. I mean, even when we visit each other, it's different. There's that social aspect of how you change. And notwithstanding confidentiality issues of the work some folks would do, I just want to sit there and like, I promise I won't share anything bad, or I'll forget what I shouldn't have seen. But I just want to see what you would literally, like some people, I'm like, how does this not take you like 12 hours to program? Because it would take me like a day and a half.
00:29:38
Speaker
I want to watch you just work. Figure that out. Maybe we'll do a day in the life type of video. But then you're there filming. Like if you came here and filmed, I mean, we're used to it. So we're a rare case. But say you went to Rob's shop and you filmed day in the life or Amish's shop or something. It's different, you know? Yeah.
00:30:04
Speaker
No, for sure. I mean, there's some compromise. But you know, I bet you I could have Julie film me over a
Creating Genuine Content
00:30:10
Speaker
week. And we could, we could, in a genuine manner, stitch that together as a day in the life, claiming that, you know, look, we actually did this over five different days. But this is what my day in life normally, and obviously, there'd be a lot of fast forwarding or cutting, you make it a 10 20 minute video. Right? That would be cool. Either do it. Maybe we could do a
00:30:30
Speaker
extended cut version to even do it as a either do it as a third person like like you are not aware of the camera or both full exposure and like you're holding your cell phone or your GoPro and like saying I just worked on this and Julie's also filming some other stuff either way. Yeah. Yeah. I love keeping it real like that. So be like we have like we have like issues and problems and hiccups too like yeah, but it's fun.
00:31:00
Speaker
It's between getting the five axes and then being out here for this, it's been for sure reinvigorated. Good. I'm glad it's been an awesome trip. Yeah.
00:31:14
Speaker
How are pens, knives, all that stuff going? Pens are waiting. We've got both lays busy making knife parts. And then within probably next week, we'll be making some pen parts. There's only two pen parts we need in order to finish like 50 pens. Nice. But we haven't gotten to them yet. So hence the whole scheduling thing, like this needs to be a priority. Oh, I see. But yeah, pens. How are pens, are they like the maker's choice?
00:31:44
Speaker
Okay. Because I know there's a there's a lot of variations, but seemingly not as many, I guess it's not as many cost variations as there are in a knife. Is that fair? The only cost difference is we charge for each anodizing color like zero one or two. Otherwise, I think all the costs are the same. Okay. It's not like the steel upgrade.
00:32:10
Speaker
Yeah, and we could get all fancy and do like Timascus or whatever, but we want to do essentially a production custom pen here. We want a solution where we can make thousands a year. We don't need everyone to be bespoke and hand-licked kind of thing, although they all have a lot of work into them for sure. I really am surprised at how well mine has held up. Eric said,
00:32:39
Speaker
So we got a new tumbler and it's got a corn cob section and Eric wanted to see how it does. So he threw his entire pen in the corn cob section and that can just make everything. He left it in for like four hours, pulled it out, blew it off with air and he's like, yeah, so it works fine. And it's much shinier. Why did you get a new tumbler?
00:33:01
Speaker
We needed more capacity because we were using the old, old tumbler, which broke. And then- Oh, wow. Like the harbor free, like Chinese- It really fell off.
00:33:16
Speaker
So, we needed more capacity, so they did a trade-in deal with us to get the twice as big one that has dividers. So, now we have, say, a quarter of it is Corn Cub, and then another quarter is our old media, the round stones or triangles.
00:33:33
Speaker
the half of it is, we call them Toblerones. They're these like pyramid log shaped brown stones that they, it's a custom formulation that Viber Finish came up with. And they are insane. They're so good. And even the action of this tumbler on top of the better media, on top of the three stages is great. It's like so much better than the old one. That's awesome.
00:34:00
Speaker
Sweet. So it's physically larger, obviously, and it has dividers. Twice as large, still runs on 110. Oh, wow. It's sweet. Interesting. Cool. Yeah, things are good. It's lots of little things on the go all the time. You know, tumbler stuff, pen stuff, knife stuff constantly. In the heat, trying to film videos and keep everybody happy. Oh, yeah. You know?
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's a big deal like running a business of this size, you know, it's uh, it's different than it was five years ago. It's much different and I love it. But it's it's a lot to wrap your head around.
Balancing Work and Life
00:34:41
Speaker
But you know, I've that the theme of actually this is really good. I think point the theme of personal satisfaction, sense of accomplishment as a shop owner, and balancing work life.
00:34:57
Speaker
I really haven't met anybody who feels confident enough to say that they could profess about how you achieve and hit that like everybody struggles with that. And I think what that really should be, I think we should really recalibrate our expectations, because there's no point in having a
00:35:16
Speaker
a goal that is never satisfied or never met a very much ties into the concept of happiness so you make your own happiness and it's admirable to be conscious of it but i don't think we should have this constant like i work too much i don't do this or like you gotta gotta figure out what makes sense and how we
00:35:37
Speaker
I gotta figure this out, but does that make sense? You know, recalibrating that. Exactly. Because otherwise you're just constantly depressed with, I don't work enough. I don't spend enough time with my family. I'm not getting it all done. I'm behind on this. There has to be a level of okayness.
00:35:53
Speaker
with knowing everything you have to do and knowing everything you're not doing and being okay with it. And being able to allocate the time to go to your kid's play or to pick them up from school or to go away for the weekend, take them on a trip. And I struggle with all of these things, but I do make time for my family, especially reactionally. Like if I have to be somewhere, I'll be there. On the planning side, like let's go away for a week and do something big.
00:36:23
Speaker
I'm not as good with that, but we spend a lot of time together, which is great. And then, yeah, on the work side, I always wish I had more time to work. So I'm just trying everything I can to be more efficient and delegate more. I struggle with that, but I'm getting better. Yeah. Yeah. But just don't, like, don't start.
00:36:41
Speaker
talking out loud, don't struggle. Quit saying you're struggling. I strive to be better. I'm working on, I'm always improving in it. But no, you are great. You're a great father. I know how much time you spend with your kids. You're still running the shop. I'm not telling you this.
00:36:58
Speaker
No, you have it, Nail. I'll go back to the same thing of Jay Pearson. It was just a life-changing moment for me, standing in front of his dishwasher that he uses to clean our shop. And he's like, yeah, I get stressed probably three days a year. And that's a choice. And I know that sounds really frustrating and frankly rude to people who are like, well, you don't run a business then if you're not getting stressed for it. No, it's actually a choice. You can
00:37:24
Speaker
It hasn't been easy but I can honestly say there are very few days where I get any form of debilitating stress or anxiety because you take the time to put the systems, the processes in place and frankly saying no to shutting down certain things, you can get there. It has to be conscious, conscious choices all the time every day so that you understand what led to that stress and you can avoid it.
00:37:55
Speaker
Well, I should get going because I think we're going to get some hotel guest background noise here, which as things pick up here. But I will see you. Do you have any fans walking like, oh, is he doing the podcast right now? We did have a couple of folks walk by.
00:38:14
Speaker
I love that school. Part of me doesn't like it because nobody owes me anything. This life has been incredibly rewarding to me. I couldn't complain about a single thing. I've gotten to do something I love and I'm very, very grateful for that. Nevertheless, it's
Impact and Gratitude
00:38:36
Speaker
It's heartwarming when folks come up and say, like, I'm in this industry because of you. I got my job because of you. We wouldn't have started our company if it wasn't for your videos, the podcast, that kind of stuff. But I just want to look at those people and be like, no, but it was still you. I didn't start your company for you. You did. And do that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's cool. Well, keep it up. Have fun at the show. Awesome. Awesome. I'll see you next week, bud. Take care. Take care. Bye.