Transcript
Speaker: Hey, you, you.
Speaker: Welcome back to The Art of Authenticity. I am so fortunate that we have Rupert Spira here again to come on the show, share his beautiful views of non-duality.
Speaker: honestly, the wisdom you share, i think, spans in a lot of different directions. But thank you so much for coming and um sharing your vast knowledge with our audience. Not at all, Laura. It's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me again. it's lovely to see you again.
Speaker: Thank you. Thank you. Well, Rupert, um my audience is very focused on this conversation with themself about what is the authentic self? How do we move past the mind into this space? We sort of hold our chest and do this thing of me, like we kind of feel this feeling of so of self.
Speaker: um And it's quite elusive. ah And this feeling of connecting to oneself and creating a life from this internal sensibility.
Speaker: And then they move on to go into the Akashic record to get information to help guide them on that journey of feeling into what's true, taking action so that the life reflects that.
Speaker: How does the non-dualist perspective um in your mind, like, um relate to this conversation that they're having in that way?
Speaker: Well, there are two elements, Laura, that you described. First of all, the authentic self and then the Akashic records that people tap into to help.
Speaker: with their lives So let me respond to, first of all, to to what you refer to as the authentic self, which refer to as and your essential self, who who who you essentially are,
Speaker: um
Speaker: as opposed to and what you know or experience. Thoughts, feelings, um sensations, perceptions, memories, activities, relationships, and so on these are These are experiences that that you know.
Speaker: it's it's not what They're not what you are. What you want you are is the one that is aware of all of these. And that so this this awareness or the fact of...
Speaker: being aware is your fundamental experience. It's your primary experience of yourself. Most people believe that being a body is their primary experience.
Speaker: This, I would suggest, is a mistake. Being aware is your primary experience. okay And then the the experience of the body is a ah flow of sensations and perceptions that you are aware of.
Speaker: So that's the first thing, this this recognition of what I think you would call the authentic self, who you truly are, what is really yourself, okay as opposed to your conditioning, um your history, your your family, your thoughts and your feelings and so on, who you really are deep down and just the fact of being or being aware
Speaker: Now, the Akashic records, um
Speaker: I would suggest that that the whole of reality um is is mental as opposed to physical.
Speaker: the that The nature of reality is consciousness rather than physical matter. It only appears to us as physical matter because we... look at it through the lens of perception.
Speaker: So what we really experience when we when when we look out and we see the world, and sense perception suggests to us that it's a world made out of something other than consciousness, outside consciousness.
Speaker: And matter is the name we give to that substance. I would suggest the only reason it looks like matter is because we look at it through the lens of perception, just like when you're having a dream at night ah You fall asleep at home and you dream you're on a Caribbean beach. And and from your from the perspective of your deck chair on the Caribbean beach, the Caribbean beach looks like a physical beach.
Speaker: But it only looks for physical because you're looking at it through the the lens of perception of the person you seem to be located on the beach. When you wake up, of course, you realize, oh, it was all the activity of my own mind.
Speaker: Well, I would suggest the same mechanism takes place in the waking state. The only reason the waking state world looks like a physical world is because we look at it through the lens of perception. But when from consciousness, one step up from consciousness's point of view, the world is its activity.
Speaker: So what why why am I saying this in relation to the Akashic Records? If we consider the possibility that the universe is is the activity of consciousness, you you could call it information, knowledge, rather than physical matter. Then the the activity of consciousness that appears to us as a physical universe would be, I think, the equivalent of what you call the Akashic records.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And in attempting to access the Akashic records, you you are trying to see behind the veil of perception to what it is that ah appears to us as a physical world. What that really is, is not it's the physical world is just...
Speaker: the way it's real its reality appears to us. I would suggest what was, so to speak, behind the physical world and expressing itself and appearing as the physical world is of the nature of consciousness, the activity of consciousness.
Speaker: And by tapping in, in you you tap into that realm, it gives you useful information about the world. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And about your place in it. And so can we talk a little bit more of tapping behind the veil and what that means to you? I have a view of it as...
Speaker: um the limited ability to know a certain amount in this finite experience as Laura, like I seem to be aware of a certain subset of thoughts, feelings, actions, knowledge.
Speaker: And then when I get closer to this veil of the Akasha, tapping behind it, there seems to be more information suddenly available that I'm unaware of. it How would you speak to that?
Speaker: And I know that's a really difficult question. Yeah.
Speaker: Laura, imagine a piece of paper, piece of white paper, and on the piece of white paper a little circle emerges. So the circle would, the white paper represents consciousness, infinite consciousness, and and the the little circle, imagine a little circle that emerges in the middle of it, um would be a boundaried area of infinite consciousness, namely the finite mind. So the the circle represents your finite mind. Of course, there are billions of finite minds, but let's just stick with one for the moment.
Speaker: Now, as soon as the circle appears, there's an inside and an outside. you take the paper away, sorry, you take the circle away, there's no inside or outside. It's just a field of pure consciousness.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: But as soon as the the circle appears, you you have a a boundary. Now, the boundary is made of perception. it's And you can check this in your experience. It's your perceiving faculties that make you now feel that you are located in space.
Speaker: okay If you could imagine removing, seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, or smelling... I'm sorry, and smelling. You would have no experience of being located in space.
Speaker: And in fact, you do this every night when you fall asleep. Your perceptions leave you, your sensations leave you. and That leaves you in the dream state and then your thoughts and images leave you and you're in deep sleep. And the the experience of deep sleep in the actual experience itself, it doesn't take up any any time or space.
Speaker: So it's perception that makes this boundary ah of the finite mind. um Everything the finite mind then views across that perceiving boundary appears in accordance with the limitations of that boundary.
Speaker: and When you look at white snow through orange tinted glasses, you see orange snow. yeah When you look at when you look at when the finite mind looks at the outside world, it perceives the outside world in a way that is consistent with that the qualities of sense perception, sense perception in a human being consists of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling and surprise, surprise, the world appears to us as sights, sounds, tastes, textures and smells. That's not a coincidence any more than it's a coincidence that that you see orange snow when you look at it through orange tinted glasses.
Speaker: There's no, so there's no orange out there. The snow's out there. but it's not orange. It has no color. So the reality of the world precedes its being perceived, infinite kind of that is infinite consciousness. but but but the world So the world derives its it its reality from infinite consciousness, but it borrows its appearance from the perceiving faculties through which it is known.
Speaker: So it's the it's the quality of the boundary that that dictates how we experience the world. So now I'm getting more focused on your question now.
Speaker: love this, yeah. If you can somehow alter that boundary, let's say you were to look at the snow through green tinted glasses, you would see green snow.
Speaker: If you looked at it through blue tinted glasses, you see blue snow. If you if you alter the the perceiving the medium the perceiving medium, The world will appear to you in a new way. So and that that there are um techniques and substances that alter the perceiving boundary through which we look at the world.
Speaker: here A glass of wine. yeah Sure. Psychedelic substances. Sure, yeah. And meditation techniques. You don't have to take a substance. It could be a substance or a technique.
Speaker: um And these do two things. They expand the boundary of the finite mind. that Imagine the circle getting larger on the piece of white paper. As the circle gets gets larger, the content that was previously outside it is now in or at least some content that previously lay in the just outside the circle, as the circle expands, it now appears inside the circle.
Speaker: so as your mind expands, the content that previously lay outside of it and appeared to you as the world now appears inside yourself as your own um endogenous experience. So that's one thing that the the perceiving boundary expands. the that The second thing is that it thins.
Speaker: It gets more porous. So that the flow of information between the outside and the inside um increases as the perceiving boundary thins. And and And there are you know substances and techniques and that um that you can um ingest or engage in to help this expansion or thinning of the separating boundary between us.
Speaker: and and the world. and And I think that what you do, and and Laura, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not, as you know, I'm not a, by no means, i haven't gone into the Akashic Records in anything like the depth that you have.
Speaker: But but i I think that what you're doing, you have, um and we spoke about this before, you you have methods to expand and thin out the the the boundary between the self the inside self and and the outside world.
Speaker: beautifully put. i I actually adore how you spoke that. that's um i I typically say that the field is actually really right here. It's whether we can like listen and hear it because we're so focused on hearing a texture of the world, the way that thoughts appear to us.
Speaker: And this sort of opens up another way of sensing more information that is there. But I love that. Yes. Yes, there's a beautiful line at the end of one of um William Wordsworth's poems.
Speaker: It's in the Prelude. um He's describing nature. I won't give you the whole poem. But at the end, it says it's talking to all the but but all the elements of of nature. And he says, one song they sang.
Speaker: So he was referring to the the unity of being that underlies all of nature. One song they sang, and it was audible. Most audible then when the fleshy ear, overcome by humblest prelude of that strain, forgot her functions and slept undisturbed.
Speaker: So what he's saying is is that the the the normal faculty of hearing has to, and I'm really just reiterating what I think you were saying, the normal faculty of hearing, and by extension all your perceiving faculties, has to subside or quieten.
Speaker: for the inner hearing to take place. Because because you you can't see behind the veil of perception with your perceiving faculties. Your perceiving faculties will just show you the perceived world as you already know it.
Speaker: But to to... So as you say, it whatever the reality of the world is, it it is present now, but our perceiving faculties Veil it from us.
Speaker: So the the perceiving faculties have to soften, have to subside. That's why there's so much emphasis in meditation on turning away from your thoughts, letting go of your thoughts.
Speaker: it's it's It's a so subsidence of mental activity. um Rumi says it so beautifully, flow down and down and down in ever-widening rings of being.
Speaker: The same idea that as you flow down, as you as you sink more and more deeply into being, you flow down into ever-widening rings of being. As you sink deeply into your mind, your mind expands. It becomes wider and wider and wider. It loses the limitations it borrows from the content of experience.
Speaker: And at some point, Stan's revealed as infinite, infinite being. So yes, that you I would agree with you. it's The reality of the world is is absolutely present here it now. It's our perceiving faculties that dumb it down and make it appear like...
Speaker: regular time and space. There's no time and space in reality. It just, reality appears to us as time and space because we look at it through the lens of thought and perception. you Yeah.
Speaker: I love that. It's so beautiful, Rupert. And yeah, I experienced that and I believe that to be true. So in that quieting and opening I've learned things and I'm curious your perspective, but there's a view that we have a soul plan.
Speaker: um That we have a? Soul plan, that we've come here. soul plan, yes. Yeah, as souls, we've come... um as the physical body, right? So I sort of think, what would, if the energy of my true self squished into the five senses, this is what it would appear to look like, feel like, taste like, sound like, right? Yes.
Speaker: And the view is that never um ending, never beginning, timeless sense of self that is currently Laura.
Speaker: has a ah reason to be here through Laura, that it it it wants to learn, grow, evolve, that there are newer souls and older souls. Um, there's also the view of oneness, right? Which is complex to kind of bring these ideas together. Um, do you believe in an idea of, us um, we are souls here with a purpose or some reason we've chosen a body, or is that not something that is, um,
Speaker: a view that you share?
Speaker: or do you have a thought on it either way? i ah Laura, I wouldn't go so far as to say that we have a a specific purpose or that we've chosen a body.
Speaker: i wouldn't go that far. But... I think this is close to what you're saying. if If you imagine, you've just referred to it if a few minutes ago, you imagine infinite consciousness, you you you you refer to it as squishing into the body. This feeling of contraction, this feeling that the infinite has contracted into the finite.
Speaker: And doing and... in doing so and and This enables, that this contraction of infinite consciousness into a finite mind enables infinite consciousness to have objective experience.
Speaker: Because all experience takes place in subject-object relationship. You can't have a a thought if you aren't if you if you are not there as the knower of that thought. You cannot have an emotion if you're not there as the feeler of the emotion, likewise of perception. So all knowledge and experience take place in subject-object relationships. So infinite consciousness by itself cannot experience anything because it it it can't separate itself from itself. Where would it go? It's infinite.
Speaker: So in order to experience something, it must... consent to, in your like in your words, squeeze itself, contract itself into the frame of a finite mind, from whose point of view it is then able to stand apart from the world or from an emotion or from a thought and know it.
Speaker: So it's only in the form of a finite mind that we know thoughts, feelings, sensations, perceptions, and so on. So this this contraction of of consciousness into a ah finite mind, so it that contraction,
Speaker: um
Speaker: it it it it each contraction takes place ah along a certain pathway. Mm-hmm. And that by definition, that the contracted self, the contracted mind is is in a state of tension.
Speaker: You imagine squeezing a ah rubber ball. The rubber ball is in a state of tension. It's always trying to expand and return to its natural state of equilibrium.
Speaker: And that is why i would suggest that there is a ah wound in the heart of all people, all individuals. This this longing.
Speaker: Yeah. Whether you give your longing a name, I want ah an intimate relationship, a family, a better job, a nicer home, better. work Sometimes we're able to name our longing.
Speaker: Sometimes we cast it in a religious or spiritual sense. We may call it the longing for God or the desire for enlightenment. That's a slightly more refined label. Or whether there's just this existential sense of lack that we cannot and and we cannot name its object.
Speaker: Whichever of these possibilities it is for each of us, there is this this existential sense of lack. Why? I would suggest it's because we are
Speaker: we we are contractions, temporary localizations of the infinite. Again, William Wordsworth, um this birth is but a sleep and a forgetting.
Speaker: The soul that rises with us, Our life's star hath had elsewhere its setting and cometh from afar, but not in utter nakedness, nor in entire forgetfulness, but trailing clouds of glory do we come from God, who is our home.
Speaker: So this sense that we are a we are a contraction, but there is this memory, but not in entire forgetfulness, that there is this memory in each of us,
Speaker: of where we came from. And this memory is felt in us as as longing. Our longing, the longing we feel, the desire we feel, whatever the object of our longing, whatever we call it, is is really, it's the echo of eternity sounding in our finite mind, calling us back.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. So... um
Speaker: this this deep desire we each have to to... And now, to be more specific about your question, is there a purpose to why we've come here? So the purpose, the individual feels I have a purpose. What what is that? What are we really doing?
Speaker: I think I suggested that as the universal contracts into the individual, it does so along a pathway. That's why each individual mind is configured in a particular way because that contraction has taken taken place in a particular way for each individual. And each individual therefore has its own pathway back.
Speaker: It has to retrace its steps. And the retracing of those steps will depend on the patterning of its initial contract contraction. From the point of view of the individual, that feels like a purpose.
Speaker: i I have a desire to do this, my purpose is to this. Actually,
Speaker: the individual does nothing. that and Ultimately, that there is no individual. There is an apparent contract contraction of of the infinite.
Speaker: The space in your room seems to be the space in your room, but it's not. It's the vast space of the universe, seemingly limited by the four walls of your room. The being that each of us seems to be, seems to be a temporary finite limited being, but it's not.
Speaker: It's the one infinite being, God's being. But the the individual doesn't know that. Space in your room thinks I'm a temporary finite limited space. So most of us feel I'm a temporary finite limited space and as at a limited being and as that limited being we feel we have a purpose and we our life has a trajectory and we're following it.
Speaker: we We have a a purpose to follow a plan. and That's just how it appears from the point of view of the individual. it really that That is just a representation in the individual's mind of the path, that that of the return journey that the individual must take to retrace its steps back to its prior unity.
Speaker: And that feels like for the individual, like I have a purpose. it it It's not. it's the It's the infinite attracting the individual back to itself. Right.
Speaker: But the individual doesn't yet know that. So the individual feels, I am doing it. It's not. It's being attracted. It's being reeled in. Like a wave pattern. ah yeah Yes, exactly.
Speaker: Yes. yeah Yeah. Okay. Yes. Another way of saying it, the the contraction, the apparent contraction of the infinite in in into the individual sets up a tension that And the individual is is always trying to release that tension and go back to its natural stake a state of equilibrium.
Speaker: that That natural desire to release, that natural impulse to release that state of tension is felt from the point of view of the individual as desire or purpose or longing.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And from a quantum perspective, would you just would you say that's basically just the patterns, the wave patterns that are... Yes, it's the natural movement of anything that has been contracted to expand and return to its natural state of equilibrium.
Speaker: Beautiful, beautiful. Well, then last one on this question... you know, many people I've had this experience, you meet a, another individual and there is this felt sense of, wow, something about you. I feel so familiar, um, all the way to falling in love instantly. But you know, like I just met this woman and I don't hold hands. I don't really like that. Uh, I do with the people I love, but I don't do it with strangers. Um,
Speaker: I don't know her. And we met and our eyes connected and it was so powerful and our hands connected. And I thought, wow, I'm holding hands with this woman. And i actually am enjoying this. This feels lovely. Like there is something so beautiful in our connection. And sometimes you meet people right in.
Speaker: There is that very, um that deep feeling of resistance to their energy. um Is that wave patterns? Is that energy? Is that, what is the, what is your view of, mean, a lot of people say soulmates, right? um They feel they've met their, somebody that they've traveled with in other lifetimes and all. Yeah. thank you yes Okay. I'm going to respond to you with another analogy. Sure.
Speaker: Imagine the ocean, and to begin with, it's calm. There are no waves. Then the the wind whips up and waves begin to form on on the ocean. So in the same vicinity of the ocean, which previously had no waves on it, now two waves arise, either simultaneously or almost simultaneously, in close proximity to one another.
Speaker: So before the storm, there was just the ocean, just one ocean. Then the storm, that's the agitation of the ocean, um arises. And what was previously one now arises as two waves.
Speaker: And the waves have each wave began at a certain time. It has a certain size, a certain shape, a certain speed, a certain amplitude, a so a certain height, and so on. So the waves are very different. Each one has its own name and form.
Speaker: And they appear to be two separate waves on the ocean. Really, that nothing has divided them. from the time where that when they were in a state of unity.
Speaker: Now, but they now, the the way, each wave now feels, I'm an individual wave. But because the that the boundary of some waves is very porous, the sense of separation is not, is is less dense than,
Speaker: in some ways than in others. In some people, the sense of separation is very strong. They would never have the experience you're just having. Or if they did have it, no, they would still have the experience, but they would interpret it in a way that is consistent with their model of separation.
Speaker: So they could still have the experience. They would just give it, I would suggest, the wrong interpretation. So what what what is really happening in the example, you, you, you, because you, you were aware that that something happened. There was like this recognition, but, but she's a stranger, but she's not stranger. I, I know her. We're, we, we, ah we don't know each other, but we feel we love each other. and Not in a sort of soft emotion away, but we feel much deeper than that. We feel we're connected. We feel we're, I know you. and ah Well, the water in each of the waves does know each other because they're the same water. That's what love is, the the recognition that we share our being, the recognition that we are one. And if your mind is porous, and your mind is obviously very porous, you're you're more susceptible to feeling these things than
Speaker: than somebody with it a more dense impermeable boundary. So it's quite possible that that you would um you would meet someone and either one or both of you, hopefully both of you, it's painful if it only happens to one of you, but if it happens to both of you, you both feel, i know this person, but but I don't know her. I don't even know her name, but I I feel connected. But you feel connected because you are connected. You are the same water. you're you And just before the storm, in other words, just before both of you arose as separate beings on the ocean of consciousness, you were one. You're actually still one.
Speaker: You we just don't always know that we're one with everyone because of our perceiving boundary that seems to separate us. But sometimes a particular wave shows up in a particular form that it it manages to to to bypass the filter of separation hu that prevents us from feeling the unity of being with everyone. And therefore we only feel it with some people.
Speaker: And so do you believe in falling in love with specific people or is it possible? do. Absolutely. I do. I'm married to my soulmate. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And what is that then? How come one person of 8 billion is a soulmate or maybe there's a handful, but not everybody? um Who is Boris? That's... a man and that The quick answer, Loris, I don't know. um But i'll give you the i'll give you the I'll give you the slow answer as well. I love it. Okay.
Speaker: That I feel... Let's say, um again, this is... that Like all analogies, it's it's limited. dont Don't take it too literally. But imagine...
Speaker: I'm stretching the analogy of the waves now a little bit. Imagine that two waves um arose and in the same vicinity on the ocean at roughly the same period of time. But then, due to the currents and the wind patterns, they drifted apart.
Speaker: And one of them ended up... um um in the Pacific Ocean, and one of them ended up in the English Channel. Nevertheless, there is a connection that exists between them who
Speaker: because of the proximity of their origin. and That connection acts as a kind of attractive force between them that operates even at a distance.
Speaker: So one person can be living in California, another person could be living in the UK, and this attractive force, somehow the trajectory of each of their lives will bring them together.
Speaker: I do believe in something like that. It's kind of very basic analogy that I've given. It's obviously hugely more complex than that, but that gives the idea of of how there could be an attraction, um,
Speaker: a sort a gravitational pull between two entities, even at a distance, because of their prior proximity. Yeah, that's Proximity doesn't necessarily have to be proximity in the time and space that we experience in the waking state. It could be at a deeper level.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea of the ocean and that the original form was close and then these wave patterns perhaps drifted. That's a really beautiful way. And then they're drawn almost like frequencies, right? They're just coming.
Speaker: it Exactly. Exactly. Yes. I like to think of the world as a very large symphony and i each musical instruments, right? Well, as soon as you said, I like to think, I knew you were going to say that.
Speaker: Exactly. Exactly. Really? yeah Yes. that that the The world is a, it's It's not made out of physical physical objects. It's vibration.
Speaker: yeah and And hence the the musical analogy. It's all a vibration. A vibration of what? A vibration of consciousness, because I would suggest consciousness is all there truly is.
Speaker: And that vibration only looks like a physical world yeah when one localized aspect of it, that is each of us, views it through the lens of perception.
Speaker: yeah And we look out at that vibration through the lens of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling. Surprise, surprise. It appears to us as sight, sounds, tastes, textures and smells. But it's not.
Speaker: it's it's It's a vibration. It's the activity of consciousness. it it Or in religious language, it's the mind of God. Yeah. Yeah. I've come to think about my body as like um ah a musical instrument. You know, I'm a cello. Absolutely. Someone's a violin.
Speaker: um But then, you know, the old days when we go in our car and the radio dial would be static. And it's like, how do you get static out so the music comes through? Yes. Yes, exactly.
Speaker: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And the static, just that's a nice analogy. The static, I would suggest, is the felt sense of separation. Yes.
Speaker: that that's what creates it That's what muddies the music. Yes. And it's unsatisfactory. you want to you twiddle it down You want the clean, clear music.
Speaker: You want the clean, clear water of being flowing through you. Yes. Through your thoughts and feelings and expressing itself in your actions and relationships. Yes. I believe that's true purpose. Like that is. and That's true purpose. Exactly.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When we're just the musical note of the infinite symphony playing yeah this instrument. Yes. um Well, then to change topic, I hate to change topics because this is so poetic and like glorious. I love this style.
Speaker: But um free will is something that I've spent more time thinking about than is probably healthy for most people. But it's just how I am organized.
Speaker: um In psychology, they have the, you know, parts models, the family systems, and, you know, that we have all these archetypes in our mind of self. We then go to the felt um sense of we you've been talking about, self. like ah So my mind might say, should I go to that movie or not? Yes or no? Did I read the reviews? Like all these things. Oh, people disapprove or or whatever. All of this conversation we have in the mind. And then the heart may have a deeper truth. um Say you're really angry with somebody that you actually love, but the mind is playing out all these scenarios, but the heart's like, ah, I love them. It's actually not true.
Speaker: And then there's this other sense of something arising. You go for a walk and it comes to you, right? It's like a moment of, oh, like an epiphanous awakening to, oh that's what's true.
Speaker: um Free will, what is the ultimate decision maker of our life, right? Like when we choose, um how do you think about it when there's so many, I mean, for me, I would go further to say we have guides. know.
Speaker: universe is kind of choosing for us in a sense. um Who's the ultimate decider in in this model? Or how do you think about this?
Speaker: I feel um complex ecosystem of us when it comes to making a free will choice.
Speaker: Is it an illusion or is it truthful?
Speaker: I think the the freedom that an individual feels is theirs to direct is really the inherent freedom of infinite consciousness, which is their essential nature, the nature of their mind.
Speaker: But the individual, the... The questions, what shall I do? um that Those arise in the mind, and the mind formulates the answer.
Speaker: But the in between the question and the formulation, the freedom that enables the mind to choose a or B, that doesn't belong to the individual mind.
Speaker: The choice is the individual mind itself. is presented with um will depend on the conditioning of that mind. Yes. and the um expression of the of the choice will also be made by and be consistent with the the mind and its conditioning, but the freedom that the mind uses to make its decision is, as it were, borrowed from infinite consciousness.
Speaker: Let me give you yet another analogy. The actor John Smith plays the part of King Lear. Sure. kick King Lear's arguing with his daughters and running the kingdom of England and everything. And King Lear feels he has...
Speaker: freedom and choices. And when he's presented with a situation, the situation that he's presented with is consistent with his life as a husband, father of three daughters, the king of England, at war with France. So his choices are very much specific to his is um circumstance, his conditioning.
Speaker: And the choices he makes will also be um consistent with and an expression of his his limitations, his conditioning. But with whose freedom
Speaker: does he you does he does he make his decisions? do Whose is the freedom with which he makes his decisions? the King Lear borrows his apparent freedom from the one who is truly free, John Smith. John Smith is free. east He doesn't mind what happens in the play. He goes home afterwards and he's free.
Speaker: Yeah. He's free. King Lear is not free. it's not that It's not even that King Lear is not free. There is no person ultimately called King Lear either to be free or not to be free.
Speaker: h So I'm making a concession to the apparent existence of King Lear. If we credit King Lear with an existence of his own, then I think the best we can say is that he borrows his apparent freedom from that which that which he truly is.
Speaker: John Smith ah in the analogy, in in other words, the finite mind If we credit the finite mind with an existence of its own, then we can, as a concession to that finite mind, we can say, yes, the the finite mind's, the decisions that it's presented with are consistent with its own circumstances and conditioning.
Speaker: the the The formulation of its decisions are also consistent with its circumstances and conditioning, but the freedom that it uses, the freedom that it employs to make a decision is borrowed from the from the freedom of infinite consciousness.
Speaker: That's beautiful. I love that. So to bring it to like a more very practical level for the audience, like people are in a situation that they feel frustrated.
Speaker: um victimized perhaps by it? Like, why am I here? This isn't the job I want. This isn't the relationship. This isn't the life I want. You know, life has been hard on me, et cetera. um What would be the pathway to begin to free themselves? Okay. I think the first thing is is to, um and and more important, I think, than whether we do or not, whether we do or don't ultimately have free will, think more important than that is is to behave as if you do have free will.
Speaker: m Because we all basically feel we are free to choose. So use your apparent free will. The important question is not whether or not you have free will.
Speaker: The important question is, um in whose service do you employ your free will? Do you use your free will in service of the sense of separation?
Speaker: Or do you use your free will in service of the unity of being? Those are the two basic choices. So whenever you whenever you have a choice, I'm not talking about the choice of eating tea and coffee, but the you know the big life's choices, pause and make sure you go back not just to the top layer of thoughts and feelings.
Speaker: Go all the way back to your being. to who you truly are behind your temporary thoughts and feelings, behind your feeling of hurt and unworthiness and what what your parents expect. you You have to go further back.
Speaker: Don't make a decision from those places. You have to go further back. You have to be get in touch with who you truly are and allow your decision to be informed by that. That's beautiful.
Speaker: That's beautiful. I hope everybody pauses on that part and and and replays it. I heard you speaking similarly on relationships and, you know, a lot of people on a practical level, again, they get really heated in a dynamic where one person is more in the separation of self mindset and they are behaving in ways that as somebody who has perhaps seen a way to be more porous, move outside of it more, you can get hooked.
Speaker: And so um similarly, when you're making the choice to engage in those dynamics, your suggestion would be to those who are in that, te you know, ah family relation or personal relation or relation with their boss,
Speaker: How do you untangle or not find yourself going towards that dynamic? Yes. Well, the time to practice is when you're alone peacefully at home.
Speaker: Sure. Because it it's easy when you're at home and and you haven't got a problematic relationship or you're not at work. Yeah.
Speaker: Recognize your being in in easy circumstances first. and That's why retreats and and events like that are provided, that they they screen you somewhat from the outside world, from your all the demands and difficulties and challenges and stresses of everyday life. They they just...
Speaker: you they call retreats for good reason you sort of retreat from your everyday life into easy comfortable circumstances and that enables you to give a hundred percent of ah your attention to your being to really you really recognize your being and not just recognize it but stand there feel yourself as that live there so that that ideally um and a daily visitation or or several daily visitations to your being um under normal and peaceful circumstances is good because this establishes a a kind of, ah you begin to be established in,
Speaker: in the peace of your being then, you then go out and test it in the world. And so when you find yourself in a, you know, a difficult relationship, an intimate relationship, your your neighbor, your your boss, your yeah um you have some, there's a sort of gravity well in you, a gravity well of of peace that may maybe be obscured to a degree by the conflict, but it's never...
Speaker: It's never buried. It's always there, just behind the layer of agitated thoughts and feelings. And you're well-practiced at going there. So when your boss or your partner or says someone says something to you, you don't just fly off the handle. You don't just...
Speaker: react you you pause instead of going outwards towards them in response you go first inwards towards your being you take refuge in your being even if it's only for a few moments circumstances may only but permit a brief pause but that's enough you go back to your being you stand there And then you respond from that place.
Speaker: So you don't respond from your feelings. You may respond with feeling. You don't respond from your feelings. You respond from your being.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. And that will give you the the best chance of, so one, your your response is not emotionally reactive.
Speaker: We all well know if you respond with emotional reactivity, it's just like pouring petrol on a fire. It cannot help. It just makes the situation worse. So when you respond from your being, it's more like putting water on the fire, not petrol on the fire.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. yeah you you You bring and clarity, peace, and love into the relationship. it doesn't mean say you'll necessarily smile sweetly at the person you're talking to. That may not be the appropriate response.
Speaker: But you will nevertheless... to Two things. When you go back to your being, as I suggested, you you experience you feel two things. One, that your being is inherently peaceful.
Speaker: So although the situation, the person you're in conflict with may be agitated, you go back to the peace of your being. That's the first thing. And the second thing is you feel that you share your being with everyone, even with the person you're in conflict with.
Speaker: Yeah. All waves, even if the waves are clashing on the surface, they're still made of the same water. So those two things, you go back to your being and you feel it's innate peace and you feel that you share your being with the person you're you're in conflict with and you respond from that place. It doesn't mean, say, you necessarily like the person or it certainly doesn't mean that you necessarily agree with him. You can continue to disagree with them. Yeah.
Speaker: And that you may need to state that disagreement very firmly if you feel that that it's appropriate and and that the gentle approach didn't work. You may need to be a little firmer. that that That's okay. But it's informed by the feeling that the being of the other person is yourself. They are yourself.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. T.S. Eliot's Four Quartets at the Still Point of the Turning World. Yes. They're the dances, right? So that's kind of my life's mantra is to keep that stillness, knowing it's a dance, even when life is turning. and Yes, exactly. i have a nice practice and that may be relevant to me.
Speaker: relevant to to mention here in relation to it to conflicts and what to do in the in the heat of the moment in the conflict. I um that i had have this practice of if there's someone, so first of all, take somebody um think somebody You not only love them deeply, but you like them very much.
Speaker: But it's easy to feel love for this person. So you you bring up an image of this person in your mind. You like them, you love them, you feel deep down, you you're one with them.
Speaker: That's the first person. Now bring up a second image of a person that you... and you neither like them nor dislike them. They're a stranger.
Speaker: You met them once. You you you you you paid checked out at the supermarket, your groceries. You just met the person for the first time. They're neutral. You don't have any particular relationship. and So that's the second person. So you bring this image up next to the person you you're very close to, and and you feel that you share your being. So the second person is the stranger.
Speaker: You feel that you share your being with them, equally as you do with a person, your close friend.
Speaker: Your relationship with them is very is very different. Yeah. But nevertheless, you feel that they're the same being and that you love them equally. Then now take a third image of someone you actively dislike or disagree with. They can be somebody in your life who you are currently having a conflict with.
Speaker: It could be a family member and someone at work. and Or it could be someone in the press that you read about. um so bring up an image of a third person that you positively dislike or even disdain.
Speaker: And and you you look at this image of them in your mind until you can see through the feelings that that you have for them until you feel that you share your being with them.
Speaker: and Everybody deep down is the same being. The space in the cathedral and the space in a prison cell are the same space. The four walls are irrelevant.
Speaker: The character of the person is irrelevant. We share our being with everyone. So this practice, you you can do it in your mind, these three images. And you just don't keep looking back and forth from these three people until you feel the same love for all of them.
Speaker: Not necessarily, I don't mean you like them all all the same. You don't feel the same affection for all of them. Sure. But the same love, love deep down, you feel you share your being with all of them. That's a very powerful practice. It's beautiful. If do it in the privacy of your own heart, then out in life, it comes to your rescue.
Speaker: Right, right. That's the yoga on the mat. off I mean, the more you practice alone, right? Exactly. Beautiful. That's a beautiful exercise. And this knowing that we are one species from one energy is so important to heal this current world we are in. because that Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah. Yes. Imagine, imagine, Laura. um No need to mention names, but look at look at them the wars that are going on in the world today. Imagine if the people...
Speaker: engaged in these wars or the perpetrators of these wars knew that they shared their being with everyone who they are at war with. Yeah.
Speaker: Imagine what that would do to our society. if This understanding, the unity of being, was just the basic understanding on which our world culture was founded, as opposed to the current paradigm of separation on which our world culture is predicated.
Speaker: Yeah. I walk past dog parks, not to make this so trite, but sometimes I look inside and I notice that, you know, Labradors and Chihuahuas and mini doodles, they're all just playing. They're not like yeah aware that, oh my God, I can't believe mini doodle got it's just terrible, you know? Yeah. concept that we're one species, it just seems to, um you know, be difficult for us as the top of the food chain. I would think it would be the opposite, that we would have a much more loving um relation to each other as one species, as dogs and All the other animals have have figured out. Well, Rupert, thank you so much for your wisdom. i just enjoy you. i enjoy our conversations. Thank you for rolling with all of my questions.
Speaker: If people want to check out your information, i regularly listen and I'm inspired. um Where can they find you? what is i know you're on Substack and have your website. Yes, um hundreds of video clips. The easiest place is YouTube, Substack. I write quite regularly on Substack.
Speaker: I have a meditation app. It's called Luminous. It's available in the App Store. um and it's It's a free, short meditation every day.
Speaker: And my website, rupertspire.com. And you offer retreats and many books. and I do webinars every week. um You can attend them just on a donation basis.
Speaker: And I do in-person retreats on the West Coast, East Coast, the UK and Northern Italy. And they're also available. um I live stream them so you can participate from home.
Speaker: Beautiful. all All the information is are ah on my website. For me personally, I'm just very grateful for all the work you do You've been doing this for a very long time and it's much very much benefited in my life and i and I know for many others. So if you're listening, please check him out. He's amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Speaker: Thank you, Laura. lovely to to see you again and to just speak with you again. Thank you for inviting me. Absolutely. Thank you.
