Transcript
Nate Day: Welcome to Adaptation, the book to movie podcast. I'm Nate.
Chris: And I'm Chris.
Nate Day: And today we are discussing... Children of men. Written by, is it PD? James is that correct?
Chris: It is. You want to take a guess? At the P and the D.
Nate Day: Poppy Danielle.
Chris: Phyllis Dorothy.
Nate Day: Oh, well, out I guess. That makes a lot more sense.
Chris: It is Children of Men by the Right Honorable Baroness James of Holland Park, OBEFRSAFRSL, Phyllis Dorothy James White.
Nate Day: Yeesh. Okay, well, I'd have a pen name too if I were her, I think. Heh. But before we dive into that. How are you, buddy? What you been reading lately?
Chris: I'm good. I'm good. Once again, as I mentioned previously, Michael Duffy is a menace and showed me how to get unlimited manga on my iPad for $4 a month. So I've been reading copious amounts of Naruto.
Chris: Amen.
Nate Day: Oh, right. Okay.
Chris: I'm on chapter 84 of 700.
Nate Day: But you like... think they're just fine. You don't even... Love it.
Chris: they're just they're fun they're easy to read they like they're a really good before bed because i can look at the cool pictures and flip through like four pages and just conk out and like what am i gonna miss some plot
Nate Day: Okay. Yeah.
Chris: No.
Nate Day: It's like a palate cleanser.
Chris: exactly and that's how i normally treat them but this time i'm on a little bit of a tear i have however also finished since we spoke last the dog stars
Nate Day: Okay, cool.
Nate Day: Oh fun.
Chris: which we decided not to do an episode about. And I think we decided.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: just right.
Nate Day: Really? Because when I pitched it, you didn't love that idea.
Chris: when you pitched. Not doing it?
Nate Day: Skipping it. Yeah.
Chris: Oh, just because I had started reading it. So I was like, well, then why did I even start reading it?
Nate Day: Oh, oh, oh. Oh, well that That's... I'm... interested i'm Glad to hear that you... have come around because I tried to... think about what what to say about it. And I just.
Nate Day: it's kind of It was kind of a nothing burger. really. And like, If we both feel that way about it, then why? Make a podcast about it, right?
Chris: Right. No, I have i have i have like no reason to tear it down. It would have been like... A discussion of... Perfectly. adequate and average media i think
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and the movie I think is a little bit less less so, less than. adequate or less than average. But it's one that I just.
Nate Day: I don't know. Sometimes when you see a bad movie that you were. excited for for one reason or another it's almost worse when it's bad right like it's so disheartening I'm like I just want to put that behind me and not
Chris: Yes. Yes.
Nate Day: think about it, like pretend it doesn't exist.
Chris: Yeah. What? i mean it's like love it's level setting right if you go in thinking it's gonna be garbage and then it's okay
Nate Day: you know.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: All right. you're like pleasantly surprised, right?
Nate Day: Right, yeah
Chris: And I think the same is true the other way.
Nate Day: Yep. Yeah absolutely. Yep.
Chris: I've been watching some movies too.
Nate Day: Okay, let's hear about it.
Chris: Blair is reading The Hobbit. I think I excitedly told you she had started.
Nate Day: Whoa. whoa
Chris: I know, right? Only... 97 years too late. Uh uh. but but She started reading it and then since they... made the wild choice of breaking it up into a trilogy.
Nate Day: Uh -huh.
Chris: We just. kept track of how far she had gotten so we could watch the first one.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: because she hasn't finished the book but she was past that point so we watched the hobbit Obviously delightful. I'm happy with any media in that world.
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: And last night I went with some buddies to the theater and saw the new Resident Evil. Have you seen it?
Nate Day: Yeah, what did you think?
Chris: That is a world I was never a part of. I never played any of the games. I didn't see any of the preceding - I think they said eight.
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: movies was this the ninth in that world
Nate Day: Yeah, I don't believe that they're all like direct.
Nate Day: sequels of one another, but...
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Several times the games have been adapted, something like nine or ten times.
Chris: Well, it was interesting because I just saw a buddy from one of my bands and he... Loves them loved playing the games loves the world that Raccoon City, I think is like the...
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Chris: Cause he, he was all excited. We had band practice. I went straight from there to go see the movie. And then I went to go pick my bass up from his house. And he was like, how was it? How was it? I was like. It was. A movie?
Chris: It feels like so plotless. I don't know.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I don't know if it's like just not accessible if that's not your Your deal?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I don't know what.
Nate Day: Yeah. I saw that one too, and... and I liked it. I didn't love it. I do think a lot of loving it comes from loving the video games. like As somebody who has never played the game, when they were like, okay, you have to go to Raccoon City, I was like...
Nate Day: Raccoon City? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Chris: Yes. Oh my gosh, I thought I heard it wrong.
Nate Day: And there's a few moments like that where they say things. you know the the literal language of the world is built around video games. And this was meant as a loving tribute to the video games.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: So. There's there's several things like that where I'm like, okay This is where the video game bit comes in and I'm sure I've a lot of my close friends out here in Denver are really into video games including these ones so i'm sure They were going to be nuts for it.
Nate Day: i thought i was really enjoyable outside of that too, which is kind of crazy because it's like the grossest movie I've ever seen and I'm really not into it.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: blood and guts but i just thought I thought it was so funny. I love the actor that's the... Lead. of the movie Austin Abrams i think he's so cool
Chris: I've never seen that guy before
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: Break, I guess.
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: But. Yeah, that's what that's one of the movies that I saw. I also saw Primetime, the movie about... Chris Hansen and 'To Catch a Predator' Have you seen any ads for that?
Chris: Oh. Yes I have. Was it good?
Nate Day: Yeah. yeah it's good it's weird it's like it took me a couple of days to really kind of process it and settle in to feeling strongly about the movie.
Nate Day: And I do really, really like the movie.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: Kind of interesting.
Chris: it's It's Twilight Boy, isn't it?
Nate Day: Robert Pattinson. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. yeah
Nate Day: And the the director... Mostly does documentaries. This is his. like first narrative movie.
Chris: Uh -oh.
Nate Day: which I think is a huge part of why. The storytelling feels very strange. Like when the movie ends, you're kind of like. what what are you saying and then Once you think about it as a documentary, you're kind of like, oh, OK, I can see now how
Nate Day: This is a symptom of a larger issue. They're capturing sort of... one piece of
Chris: Uh huh.
Chris: Yeah. Yep.
Nate Day: some of those you know the fascination with true crime and some of that stuff is so that's That's... it's a cool one too and and weirdly those movies kind of make a good double feature just because they're both so gritty and weird and and like
Chris: Jeez.
Nate Day: cold and lonely and yeah, they're It's been an interesting couple of weeks at the box office. But I've been reading lately, too.
Chris: What?
Nate Day: Chris. Mm -hmm.
Chris: Who taught you to read? I'm gonna say that every time.
Nate Day: My sister did. We are... doing a mini two -person book club she's an avid reader for those that I've been listening for a while. She talked with us about the... Housemaid.
Chris: Housemaid yep.
Nate Day: And... We just decided to... to kind of start reading some stuff together. so we read a book called Why You Love Music, which is about the the sort of physical science behind...
Chris: Ooh.
Nate Day: Why you... You love music, believe it or not. And then... We read...
Chris: okay
Nate Day: We read one called Yesteryear, which I think is really popular right now on the... Goodreads and book... tok and I think it's like gaining momentum.
Chris: I'm not familiar.
Nate Day: I don't know how to use Goodreads, so this might take a second.
Chris: yeah
Chris: Dude, brother, that's exactly how I feel every time I open Letterboxd.
Nate Day: That's right. Yeah. Caro Claire Burke. Story about an influencer like a Christian
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: Momfluencer. but kind of an interesting story about feminism too i think uh And then...
Chris: well
Nate Day: I've finished that one pretty quick, and I told her that the next book we're going to read is Patti Smith's autobiography. or memoir, which is called Just Kids.
Chris: Sick
Nate Day: Ick? What do you mean, ick?
Chris: I said sick.
Nate Day: Oh I was like come on.
Chris: Like... Good. Cool.
Nate Day: Yeah, so I'm just sawing through them, man.
Chris: Wow.
Nate Day: I know
Chris: We're just Trading places.
Nate Day: Kind of we kind of are
Nate Day: But since he read Children of Men... By PD James. Why don't you tell me a little bit about... that book.
Chris: Yes,
Chris: Okay, P .D. James. I'm not going to read that big, long, full title of hers again. But...
Nate Day: Sure.
Chris: She was, so this right honorable, she was granted a life peerage. which means she was considered a baroness and sat in the House of Lords, but it is not a hereditary title.
Chris: It's not passed on to her children.
Nate Day: Okay, so she was like buddy buddy with the right. people, probably.
Chris: Yeah, it is. It is granted by. Oh, gosh. Granted. I'm going to get this wrong. Granted by parliament at the recommendation of the prime minister, I believe.
Nate Day: Okay. Yeah, that...
Nate Day: i i think that's right i did some royal reporting back in the day and i think that's That sounds right.
Chris: That sound along the right lines. Yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Born in 1920 in Oxford. Another Brit. We got to run some statistics on this. we Talk about an absurd number of authors from this island.
Nate Day: That's true. Yeah
Chris: Kind of. Very interesting backstory. So I had never heard of her. As an author. And this was.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Not. Well, yes, late, late in her writing career. She had been writing for decades, so she... Dropped out of school when she was 16. Her...
Chris: Mother. was institutionalized. She was mentally ill and her father needed help. working, making money for the family and taking care of her younger siblings. So she dropped out at 16. was working to help with that.
Chris: She married an army doctor. And during World War II... He came back. and was also mentally ill and in and out of institutions and she talked about when he would he would just check himself out sometimes and come home and she never really knew what
Nate Day: oh
Chris: what version of him would be coming home, right? And so after he passed, she...
Nate Day: Sure.
Chris: This is a crass oversimplification, but essentially said now I could not shift my career. you know and care for our two daughters, who I believe are still living.
Chris: with this tumult and so after he passed she was able to shift and became a writer and wrote uh by all accounts what appears to be a fairly successful uh crime detective series called the Adam Dalglish series.
Chris: And then children of...
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Children of men came out she published it in 92 I believe But incredible, incredible list of accolades and awards, a lot around mystery writing novels. I believe all of these are. British Awards.
Chris: including in 92 the deo gloria award for this for children of men and i had just never heard of her which is because there are so many cool authors out there and so much to cover
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: Uh... But this was a weird frickin' book.
Nate Day: Really?
Chris: just
Nate Day: Weird. weird because of the story or or of that and something else?
Chris: I think weird because it's presented as sort of you know the 80s the 90s certainly before that we look at the lineage of dystopian novels Clockwork Orange.
Chris: 1984, Brave New World. I would argue Minority Report was along those lines, right? Philip K.
Chris: Dick, a lot of what he wrote. and You know, the common...
Chris: Not. trope of them, the common I think why they remain so enticing to us as consumers, as readers, as watchers, and so potent and so relevant as we look back at these books that are...
Chris: jarring. when first published right because they present
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: What ought to be. Outlandish. unheard of, unspeakable. And then we look at it now. you know decades later and go Oh, this was prophetic.
Nate Day: Oh, they were onto something.
Chris: Right?
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: Yeah. And so... But talking about level setting, I think that's what made it an odd book for me. That's what I came into it ready for. Uh,
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: I don't think this is I'm going to. Try. Wow. I don't know. it's 35 years old. Are we worried about spoilers?
Nate Day: Hmm. No, I don't think. Yeah, we spoil away.
Chris: Okay, okay. Well, certainly, the I mean, the main plot itself. That is. probably i would assume you would know from the trailer with we are in a modern world where humanity has lost the ability to reproduce.
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: It opens with the story of... the last Oh my gosh, what were they called? Omegas? That was the last generation of children.
Nate Day: Oh they didn't. Get a name, but I think I know what you're talking about.
Chris: Oh interesting.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah, the like like Gen X, Gen Z, whatever, though mega the last generation of children born.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: The book opens with the last child ever born dying in some bar fight.
Nate Day: Oh, that's interesting that that was in the book. I... i thought that maybe that was a clever move on the movie's part but Maybe we'll get back to it. continue
Chris: i'm Well, I'm curious. There's actually an amount we talk often about. Usually my first discussion question for you is... there are these intricate, nuanced plot points that bring such richness to the text, and I can't see how they would bring that over to screen.
Chris: In this case, there was virtually nothing about the book that I thought... this would be impossible to do justice to on screen. Like I kind of imagine it. they probably kept it pretty true.
Nate Day: I mean, based on the one factoid you said before I interrupted you, we're on track. but but
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: Yeah, I think the brilliance of the story comes from kind of what it allows you to to yeah think about afterwards and and kind of figure out and flesh out for yourself at least i've only seen the movie as is almost always the case on this podcast so I'm interested to hear what else you.
Nate Day: mention what other highlights you have.
Chris: Good No, I would actually agree with you wholeheartedly. that's So I came into it ready for a Minority Report style, one of these dystopian, apocalyptic, there's this big crisis happening.
Chris: And in this case...
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: I took it as a weakness initially, and it really took a while to wrap my mind around. But now I view it as... a powerful deliberate tool that she used in the writing.
Chris: That's revealed right away. and is so omnipresent you almost forget.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: the the blow, the impact that is in a mental experiment of what does my life look like right now if suddenly no more babies are born?
Nate Day: Exactly.
Chris: and the the The true wrestling match of the entire text is kind of this one individual and what's going on in his head. and How he reconciles.
Chris: the reality of his circumstances with how he is living. And he's he's kind of a...
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Jerk. he's kind He kind of sucks.
Nate Day: Yep. He's a bit of a I don't know about loser, but he's kind of a bit of a deadbeat. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Day: Just like not a lot.
Chris: i like this Retired Oxford Don. Kind of chilling on his laurels. It is very much...
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: Uh...
Chris: not not Not as far as like Monty Python is British humor, but there are... aspects of like the sensibilities and life happenings that I think you have to be at least vaguely attuned to.
Chris: British norms in society. Right.
Nate Day: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah totally.
Chris: there were i've I had some so some parts that stuck out to me in particular that I thought... Because. once again for the 100 billionth time on our Dear little show here.
Chris: I was not into it for probably the first half.
Nate Day: Oh, why did I not see that coming?
Chris: but I was like, this guy just sucks. I'm waiting and waiting for the turn. It feels like it's never coming, but we'll get back to that.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: So I so i just started writing down things that were at least interesting, so I'd have something to talk about.
Nate Day: Okay.
Nate Day: Yeah, great.
Chris: So the the warden. of england is... the protagonist's cousin, Zan, which is a crazy name.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And they're talking about their upbringing, their mutual... I don't remember why they lived together. The beginning is truly very unremarkable.
Chris: But they had this shared sort of the classic British estate called Wolcombe. and he kind of slips this line in there that it feels innocuous when it happens and you have to go back and go Oh.
Chris: oof
Nate Day: Oh, they said it.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: that Yeah, he's talking about
Chris: Sort of that apathy, the civ civic duty. so Something is this compulsory or not? Are we required to do this? And he just. It's a throwaway line in the conversation, and he just side remarks, nothing is compulsory at Wolcombe, the estate. except unhappiness.
Chris: And that's like. from From my media consumption exclusively, not from being there, not from friends I have who are from there. From books alone. That it feels like like a core British ideal.
Nate Day: yeah Yeah, it kind of does.
Chris: have Have all of the stuff in the school estate.
Nate Day: Only miserable.
Chris: Yeah, and and also don't forget to be unhappy. The... Going through that. Very much stemming from that and more of his discussion. He had he had this moment where an old fellow Oxford Don calls him up for a visit and essentially says, my wife and I are sick and dying. We're out in the wilderness. The government set up.
Chris: more or less government programs in the cities to care for everyone as obviously the
Nate Day: Mm hmm.
Chris: public is aging needs lots of help and he asked this old friend to move in with him and he just talks about this immediate revulsion. to the idea of having to share his already self -described far too large house.
Chris: with anybody else. just comically jerky behavior. And what I boiled it down to was the...
Nate Day: right
Chris: The question. that's unique because first it just felt like any other dystopian novel but not doing anything interesting with it.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: And that was the thought that I had to examine for myself. she i think it This is why I say I think it was deliberate that she presents that problem right off the bat and you just have to sit with it the entire time.
Chris: She doesn't want that to be the focal point.
Nate Day: Totally. Yeah.
Chris: uh the the Question. Hmm. Maybe it doesn't ask us, but it certainly... poses at large is if seeking humanity would become futile.
Chris: If humanity's imminent doom. were in sight.
Nate Day: Right. Okay.
Chris: Does that make sense? Or is that a vibe that you got from the film?
Nate Day: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a... Like. Asylum and and refugees are a huge enormous part of the story i think uh
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: In fact, part of the conflict going on in the world is so kind of separate and in so many weird ways from the conflict in the movie but but yes i i do think that that's a huge Uh...
Nate Day: theme throughout the story
Chris: Yeah, yeah. And that, I mean, once again, perhaps it was quite clear at the beginning and I was just too dense to recognize it. I got there eventually. the The question was.
Nate Day: You got to stop saying that.
Chris: well i i never know like for all i know everyone else who reads this by page four they're like oh yeah this is like How would you live your life? were you to know humanity is...
Nate Day: Sure.
Chris: imminently. closing its existence.
Nate Day: Ending? Yeah.
Chris: Right?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: would Would you continue to care for others? Would you continue? Would you ramp up your sympathy and empathy and look to those around you who still... are already here, are have already been born.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Or would you? Check out. Dude's just chillin in his giant house. He doesn't have to work. He's got his books in his claret
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And obviously. Hopefully. everyone would say of course the former but then why isn't that how we're all living now?
Chris: I don't know. The questions open up quickly.
Nate Day: Right. Yeah.
Chris: Later on, so he's trying to get supplies. We're not worried about spoilers. they they Find that. one woman is pregnant.
Nate Day: yeah
Chris: And so it's like, protect her at all costs, keep her out of Zan's hands. And so he's going in to collect supplies, and he has to tie up this old couple to take their car for them to escape.
Chris: And then they hear on the radio the next morning that the woman died.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: And obviously there's no way to know, is this a lie that Zan broadcast to vilify him?
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: Would she have died anyway? Was it? indirect correlation to his actions and this Oh my gosh, I'm not going to remember her name.
Chris: The midwife who is with them and going to g deliver the baby.
Nate Day: Miriam?
Chris: Yes, Miriam. She says... Why the hell should you escape guilt? It's part of being human. Or haven't you noticed? And he thinks to himself, in the past 40 years, there's a great many things I haven't noticed.
Chris: who
Nate Day: Yeah. pretty head heady for a post -apocalyptic. Thriller.
Chris: Yes, there's all this going on and still the primary conflict is not. The aforementioned imminent demise of...
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: The species.
Nate Day: Yeah. Not exactly, yeah.
Chris: That one made me stop. That one made me stop. I was walking in the subway listening and I... so stopped and stood there for a minute and went.
Nate Day: Wow. Wow.
Chris: Ooh. Duh.
Chris: my My last, my closing remark on it. So that really took me a while to understand that that's truly what we're looking at here. And I appreciated the text much more once I got there. I was looking at it as just another, you know, the road.
Chris: This is cool. I don't remember the title of that book. We have we have thousands of these, right? What if this happened?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: societies call it dog stars dog stars was exactly the same and so that's what i was looking for what's the mechanic within the world and that was not her point her point was what do we see within humans when faced with X.
Nate Day: Yeah, actually, yeah.
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: So they are obviously in. less than ideal circumstances she's going to give birth to this child they realize that They just allowed. the real father to be killed.
Chris: has to give birth in like this barn house or something. Can't find supplies. Horrible, horrible, horrible. And she's looking around, noting the nature around them.
Chris: Oh my gosh, what's her name? The one who is pregnant.
Nate Day: Kee
Chris: Yes. Oh my gosh. And she's commenting on that and he kind of looks over at her and and he says, I only know it's beautiful.
Chris: She can feel its loveliness.
Chris: And it it felt like a big turning point. the The only place that I... genuinely had a gripe with the writing itself was his sudden and immediate attachment to her.
Chris: which was necessary for the plot. but
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Not. not fleshed out in a convincing way.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: So you're telling me you have built very convincingly this... this kind of apathetic cat who's checked out from society and Fine with status quo because he's comfortable. he knows He mentions many times he knows he has the ear of the warden, his cousin, at any time he wishes. He elected. to remove himself as an advisor to the warden from the council. Just doesn't care.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And now he's approached by these people who annoy him, trying to... carry out a plot that he doesn't support. what and and now he's madly in love with this woman and willing to risk it all like
Nate Day: Oh he was in love with her?
Chris: Peace. Yes.
Nate Day: Wow they're I'm already hearing a lot of changes from book to movie.
Chris: Oh, interesting. Okay.
Nate Day: Mm hmm.
Chris: Well, I mean, in love with her in the sense he kind of keeps alluding to thinking, oh, maybe I am in love with her. Because there's also a strange, strange quantity of scenes between him and his ex -wife. And her new lover. and and
Nate Day: Whoa.
Chris: That's what I mean. In terms of approaching the philosophical meat that I think she wanted us to, you need these parts, and to flesh them out more would be somewhere between...
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: long -winded and distracting.
Nate Day: Sure. Yeah.
Chris: so So I can very much see why she made the decisions she did, but just that part in particular was a little less than convincing.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: But it still it gets you to that point that I think was really the apex of that idea. We never get the satisfaction. It's not a fairy tale. he's not suddenly this great cool hero that's going to turn england around for the better
Nate Day: right
Chris: But... At the very least, he is seeing... Maybe not the error of his ways, but where... These lives around him he sees the hope the glimmer that they have.
Nate Day: Okay. Yeah.
Chris: and recognizes why he does not and so in that way it is satisfying and i think in a very true sense uh more relatable
Nate Day: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Chris: Right. Right.
Nate Day: Totally.
Chris: We all, i't I hope this isn't too far a leap or away from. what she was aiming at but we all see the This dark hellscape that is often the world around us today.
Nate Day: Mhm.
Chris: And none of us think we're suddenly going to go fix it all. But does that mean we can't see the beauty? around us we can't one of my one of the one million things that i love dearly about blair excellent And she absolutely never gets sick of walking out the door. We're going to the subway. We're headed to do something. And she will stop in her tracks and go, man, look at those cool clouds.
Nate Day: Mm -hmm
Chris: And that fucking rocks.
Nate Day: That's right. She is a cloud girl. Yeah it does.
Chris: She is a cloud. You're the same clouds every day. And she loves him every day. And that's... Amazing. And may we all.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Experience that. So it was.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: a A uniquely... cool and uplifting and to an otherwise not terribly satisfying plot. Not in a bad way. I think in a human way
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: But that's all I got for the book.
Nate Day: Okay. Well, let's take a... quick break and I will tell you why you're wrong.
Chris: Can't wait.
Nate Day: Welcome back to Adaptation, the book to movie podcast. We are discussing P .D. James. Children of men? Do you say James or Jameses?
Chris: I was just wondering that P .D. James. Well, because the S is already in her name. So to show ownership, it would be S apostrophe S. James's.
Nate Day: James is okay.
Nate Day: I was really interested to hear your breakdown of the book, it sounds a lot more cerebral than the movie.
Chris: Oh.
Nate Day: it's a lot more about the action of what happens. And by the way, the movie makes. Uh, Theo, the the man that's at the center of the story, a lot more sympathetic than it sounds like the book
Nate Day: does.
Chris: oh
Chris: Interesting. Wait, sympathetic towards whom?
Nate Day: For us. the audience like it's it's easier to sympathize with him which is probably pretty necessary for a
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: The. The... protagonist of a thriller right like somebody that you want to root for.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: So I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie just just for that alone, because that obviously we've talked about Having an unlikable protagonist is such a huge hurdle for you specifically.
Nate Day: And I think the movie
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: does one or two things that might kind of lighten that load a little bit. but uh without getting too much into it The general story is the same. we are roughly 18 years into this fertility crisis.
Nate Day: And. This... Man. who has sort of given up on... life and happiness gets kind of sucked into
Nate Day: trying to make the world a better place. Because that's... who he is deep down is sort of how it's presented in the
Nate Day: movie
Chris: So is he pulled in? It's the it's the the five fishes? they Pull him aside and say, will you go to the warden and present to her? ideas, grievances.
Nate Day: This is... Sort of. It sounds like the warden is not as huge of a character in in the movie. He does have a cousin who is...
Chris: Oh, interesting.
Nate Day: well off and well connected. But it sounds like he in the movie, he's even farther removed from that overall political conflict. than maybe he is in the book.
Chris: It's pretty central to the book.
Nate Day: I mean, it's...
Chris: That's like why he's involved, essentially.
Nate Day: it sounds like they've really changed some of those gears or some of the mechanics that maybe left you feeling some some Wanting.
Nate Day: I think that they would probably be really... satisfied. Uh... If you watch the movie. But.
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: I'll get a little bit more into that here as we... Go on. The movie was released in 2006 and was directed by Alfonso Cuarón who is from Mexico. And he's one of the more. lauded names in global cinema you know if you were to Ask for the top five or ten.
Nate Day: Non- American or British directors in the world, he would he would probably be on that list. He also did Gravity. Kind of weirdly did Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.
Nate Day: before which I think actually was the last one.
Chris: But just that one?
Nate Day: Yeah, the first. couple were all done by different people before I believe Goblet of Fire is when David Yates stepped in and has done every Harry Potter movie since then.
Nate Day: but He did an adaptation of Great Expectations, and then he's had some huge Mexican movies as well. Like Roma. was one that... just, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, kind of a lot of people were super into.
Nate Day: So so big deal, big big name.
Chris: Yeah, I remember that.
Nate Day: Stars Clive *Owen as... Theo, Julianne Moore. is the leader of the fishes, which is the the one of the many rebel groups that are operating.
Nate Day: And then a handful, it' it's truly an ensemble. Story there's a lot of people that kind of come in and out of the story Kee is played by Clare- Hope
Nate Day: Ashitey. Ashitey? Sorry, I didn't. look up how to pronounce that British last name. And then Michael Caine is in it. I know you're Probably a fan of Michael Caine.
Chris: What?
Chris: Quite!
Nate Day: That's right. Uh... I forget his name now, but he's the like old hippie. Jasper?
Chris: Oh, yes, the one that asked to come stay at Theo's.
Nate Day: See and that is reversed in the movie
Chris: Theo asks to stay at.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Nate Day: Jasper suggests that Theo come live with them because he is living a pretty... tough life on his own.
Chris: Interesting.
Nate Day: Yeah. And then, like I said, there's a lot of people to Chiwetel Ejiofor.
Nate Day: Oh, what's the guy from Sons of Anarchy? The young guy, not... not your boyfriend, but the main guy from sons of anarchy is in this movie.
Chris: Cool. Wow.
Chris: Oh my gosh!
Nate Day: Crap. I can't believe I can't remember his name.
Chris: This is a crazy cast.
Nate Day: Anyway. Yeah, it it is. And a lot of them, it was like at the beginning of their careers. So it was kind of cool to watch this movie and be like, oh. that That guy of just had seven lines before he he like got killed or whatever. And now I'm like seeing a movie starring him next week or whatever, you know.
Nate Day: So... I mean, it speaks to like Cuarón's ability to to find talent. Right.
Chris: Uh huh. uh -huh
Nate Day: The screenplay is credited to five people, including Cuarón which is... kind of why i was saying uh it sounds like they made a lot of changes it sounds like it was really difficult to nail the script down and i actually didn't list any of the people because sometimes retrospectively People are given credit.
Nate Day: Because there's like disputes within the writers guild over whether your version was thrown out or it influenced a future version or something so
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: In an attempt to be fair, I'm not going to say anybody else's name. So you can just watch the movie and see what names come up in the credits, I guess. but Like I said, I think that that was a real indicator that it was. difficult to adapt and took a lot of minds to to do so.
Chris: m
Nate Day: One of the bigger talking points around this movie is probably the fact that it came out. In a post 9 -11 world, you know, I think I think I've said this before, but Movies.
Nate Day: like when cultural movements occur in society they often come later in movies as an art form just because they take so long to make and are so expensive it's kind of hard to get you know the one percent that funds them on board with telling these stories so 2006 was around the time that we started seeing like, quote unquote, 9 -11 movies happen, which was.
Nate Day: these artists that are writers and directors sort of processing the tragedy that was 9 11 through some other story and i think you can sort of see it in this story to some degree i didn't see anything that that especially because Cuaron is not American. i don't I don't know that this was like his response to 9 -11 or his reaction to 9 -11. But you can see why it was. felt sort of like prescient to make this movie because it's a story about a a world living in tragedy and on the
Nate Day: uh edge of collapse and and everything in it is happening so quickly that you can't really you know if you're living in that world, you can't really wrap your head. around it and anybody that was alive on September 11th, 2001, knows.
Nate Day: That like WTF feeling. Right? so
Chris: Also incredible because he's not he's not American experiencing that or. british i mean geopolitically coming out in 92 this is
Nate Day: Mm -hmm.
Chris: Far more. obviously not influenced by 9 -11
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: either time or space -wise, far more likely. Influencer response to like the Thatcher administration IRA
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: But it still fits.
Nate Day: Yeah, exactly.
Chris: 14 years later in another continent.
Nate Day: Right. And... fits, you know, all these today like a lot of people today are kind of re -watching this movie and
Chris: Mm -hmm.
Nate Day: Like immigrants are thrown in. concentration camps and you're like, whoops, that happened in January.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: you know, like.
Chris: That happened yet yesterday. Yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah, exactly. so kind of interesting and and and Interesting to... Watch it through that lens. The rights to the movie were acquired in 97, so... uh again before 9 11 so so interesting to examine it too as something that sort of started before and and finished after kind of kind of fun to look at it that i mean maybe not fun but interesting to look at it that way.
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: The second Really major talking point for this movie is that it's full of these extended single shot sequences where at least it appears for between four and six minutes that the there is no take. or There is no break in the take.
Nate Day: which is really pretty rare. It's... Pretty... uh remarkable to see a take go for longer than 30 seconds before it cuts away to somebody else's face or cuts away to another shot So.
Nate Day: The fact that this movie has. Well, it's it's famous for... a ton of long takes but it has three that really stand out and they're very difficult to do because Especially in a movie like this one, and a post -apocalyptic.
Nate Day: movie. they're They're not safe to film. It requires a lot of luck to do some of these things. uh so Some of them are not as long as they appear. There's some like clever editing and CGI and things like that.
Nate Day: because you know this movie involves like bombings and things like that and you can't
Chris: Mm -hmm
Nate Day: You just can't put. Clive Davis. Or Clive Davis. Clive. What did I just say? the It is Clive Davis, right? Clive.
Nate Day: Isn't Clive Davis a musician? Now I'm worried I wrote the wrong name down.
Chris: I don't know who he is. Yes, sir.
Nate Day: Clive Owen, not Clive Davis. I don't know what I said earlier but.
Chris: Oh yep. Clive. Clive Davis is a different guy.
Nate Day: Yeah, for sure.
Chris: He has four Grammys.
Nate Day: He would be probably not quite as... helpful in this situation as Clive Owen's character was. but these These long takes are really tough to film. Like I said, there's... there's The most famous one in this movie, a lot of people will call it the quote unquote car scene.
Nate Day: several characters are are in a car and are trying to get key to safety before she even has the baby and they're ambushed in the woods and it's a long sequence that involves uh car crash and one of the cars is on fire and i doubt this is in the book but two characters can spit a ping pong ball back and forth and catch it. in their mouths and they're doing that.
Nate Day: while driving the car and then somebody ends up getting shot and somebody gets knocked off their motorcycle and all of this happens in what appears to be one shot so it's a miracle of blocking, editing.
Nate Day: performances. interpersonal safety. camera work right like capturing everything so that you can see how crazy it is to get knocked off your motorcycle by the door of a car. Things like that. They take... Days to plan. Hours to shoot, particularly to to reset, I think. the The longest shot in the movie is at the end when he's...
Nate Day: kind of walking through. For those that have seen the movie, our our main character, Theo, is walking through a building that had just been bombed, and he's looking for a key to get back on track to the...
Nate Day: sort of rescue mission. It's a slightly over six minute long take. Like shot they would shoot it in six six minutes and 18 seconds and then it took five hours to reset So it's like incredibly expensive.
Chris: Oh my gosh.
Nate Day: I read that in this scene. in particular Uh, the the final cut there's some blood on the camera or you know Quote. fake blood that gets splashed onto the camera and Coron wanted to reshoot it.
Nate Day: And the cinematographer was like, I can't do that. Like you you've got to just be okay with the blood on the camera because I can't do another five hour reset.
Chris: No.
Nate Day: So... just speaks to how difficult it was. difficult it was to make the film and a miracle that it looks as good as it does and came out well, because you really can't tell.
Nate Day: where those like editing tricks are or which parts are CGI. I could make theories if I sat. and watch the the clip on like slow -mo I could be like okay see how she moved her head that's probably because They cut it there and it was just a really smooth cut Or...
Nate Day: like i said the explosions i'm like yeah those didn't happen because clive owens head would have exploded. and So those are clearly CGI.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: But for the most part, you can't tell. you know, what what is these these long takes?
Chris: Wow.
Nate Day: Yeah. partly because of this. technique. in filmmaking. This is known within the industry as one of the best films of the century and maybe one of the best science fiction movies ever made.
Nate Day: and And like I said, has undergone a real resurgence in recent years, in part because some of the things that happen. kind of disturbingly echo. things that we're seeing now.
Chris: who
Nate Day: Ultimately it performed quite poorly at the box office when it came out in 2006. Maybe that's because people didn't really want to see. nasty. sad crap like this after 9 -11.
Nate Day: I don't know that it.
Chris: move
Nate Day: You know. so five years later. that people were really feeling that way about movies, but. barely made back its its production budget. and We've talked about how it... far beyond its production budget. It needs to go to make money. So kind of interesting that it... didn't.
Nate Day: connect with audiences. until kind of after the fact. when it's been sort of reclaimed as a critical darling and it even sort of underperformed at The Oscars, in part probably because that poor box office performance makes it seem like there's a real...
Nate Day: Disconnect. societally, right?
Chris: who
Nate Day: uh but it was nominated for editing and cinematography which is where those long shots really come in that's who's doing the most of the work there and then
Chris: Mm -hmm.
Nate Day: its screenplay as well was was nominated so kind of interesting Uh, That it's... been reshaped so much from the book and kind of interesting that it's it's known for things that are not.
Nate Day: prescient to the source material. As far as I know, I think actually my first discussion question, if we can just jump into those.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: is Is there anything in the book? That. Boom. would require like writing style or anything that would sort of lend itself to these long takes like a director deciding to use long takes or was he maybe kind of just showing off a little bit.
Chris: No, that actually when you said that was a prominent feature of this that makes a lot of sense, which is part of what made it so difficult to get into the text.
Nate Day: Does it?
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Uh... long long swaths of time where it feels like have Have you watched the show 24?
Nate Day: No, but I know that conceit.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: 24 episodes a season that are an hour each.
Chris: So it's like genuinely happening.
Nate Day: Yeah, real time.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And that's real time. The book felt a lot like that. Like you are taking each step, thinking each thought.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: predominantly from Theo's perspective, but really... i think it makes a lot of sense i think the writing lends itself to that quite well.
Nate Day: Really? Cool. That's cool to hear. uh because he had sort of experimented with long takes before that actually there's a few in the harry potter movie that he did and And...
Nate Day: but this was like it's like opus level the the long takes in this. So I was curious if he if he was just kind of...
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: doing that as his own project or or If that was... you know sort of included the movie is so sort of frenetic and manic in some ways because the there's so many characters that like drift in and out in such a natural way
Chris: Mhm. Mm hmm.
Nate Day: that I was curious if that was, you know. coming from the book or or Like I said if he just kind of went beast mode
Chris: Well, I was surprised when you said ensemble cast because there are... There are Exactly as you said. a good number of characters and Almost all of them are.
Chris: Oddly... Well... established as individual characters. But still. Don't really matter. I mean, the lion's share of the book is basically Theo exclusively.
Nate Day: Yeah. Theo and and sort of by nature, Key. Right.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, but honestly... Her still... It's almost like... how everyone thinks. Dracula is the main character of the play Dracula and it's like okay we gotta talk about the difference between title character and main character
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: She's... Obviously. and incredibly central to the storyline itself. but per line, per word percentage within the text.
Chris: not much larger than any of the other. 9, 10... 12 sort of secondary. It's like Theo 85%. And then 1 .5 % to 13 other people to fill out the remainder.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: You know what I mean?
Nate Day: Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And that's actually really well captured in the movie. And I think it lends itself to...
Chris: e
Nate Day: feeling very real, you know, because I'm like, oh, God, I forgot about that guy. And if I was in this situation, I would have freaking forgot about that guy.
Chris: Exactly what I would have done.
Nate Day: You know and And there's some people, you know, there are...
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: like i said it's a story involving refugee asylum so some of the people they come across don't speak english and and you're like i don't have time to figure out what your name is or what the hell language you're talking just like help me or don't and then and that's exactly how the movie is you never
Chris: Mm hmm.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: i don't know i mean i'm sure you know because he read the book what their names are but that there's like a Couple towards the end. that. Particularly the wife really helps.
Nate Day: Who does she like? fight off. She just kind of goes nuts on somebody and and kind of saves the day. And then cheese. kind of wiped out of the story. And you're like.
Nate Day: Yeah, i didn't I didn't even know her name.
Chris: i think they added that i don't think that was even in the book
Nate Day: It might have been a... a An addition or like a. I guess an adaptation of a different.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: couple because it's so minor they can kind of get away with some of that stuff, you know.
Chris: Yeah. Yep.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: So I...
Nate Day: Okay, what else do you have?
Chris: Yeah, i I only brought one question because it's all I could think the entire time.
Nate Day: Oh.
Chris: And now to an extent, once again, much of our discussion has kind of answered it, but I'd still like your thoughts.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Of all stories available, Like why was this chosen to be made into a movie?
Nate Day: I don't know, I mean it's... my guess like on a very literal sense is that it performed well enough as a book that some that that studio heads thought that it would.
Nate Day: Make money. or at least earn them awards. I think I've said on the podcast that pretty much every... movie is made for one of two reasons and that's either to make money.
Nate Day: or to earn awards so that they become more attractive to people that can help them earn money on future projects.
Chris: make quite Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: yeah
Nate Day: So, I mean, that's that's the boring answer is that they thought. it would make them richer. But. You know, looking at this movie and and especially the 9 -11 discussion and and then you throw in Cuaron, who's very global and has made.
Nate Day: he I mean, he's made American movies and or maybe not American, but... Well, Gravity was probably an American movie. British movies, right? like he he doesn't He's not necessarily only...
Nate Day: championing Mexican history or Mexican cinema. He's he's looking at things very globally. and And I would say that this story is pretty global because we're talking about a worldwide.
Chris: Mhm, certainly.
Nate Day: fertility crisis and And I think that's... we We sort of talked about this up at the top, but that's kind of the perfect. Set up for an apocalyptic thriller.
Nate Day: or post excuse me, a post -apocalyptic thriller, because you start to go, oh yeah, immediately pharmaceuticals would crash. And that would mean that. uh groceries crash and that would mean that real estate and automotive industry's great like yeah i can see the dominoes falling you know
Chris: Hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Nate Day: So I assume that that was probably very... appealing to someone like Cuaron, who's constantly kind of... approaching things at this global scale.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: And that's probably how he got involved, which is probably... really why this got made like i said the rights were acquired in 97 so it took them nine years to to
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: totally come up with this thing that's that's a really long time you know I can't imagine it was terribly easy. So... I think it was. several things right they saw that it was shiny and then it had to be like right place right time and he was working on developing this while he was doing the harry potter movie so who knows if maybe that being like a huge success had had some influence on how he approached this or
Chris: Hmm.
Nate Day: You know, if if maybe that's why there's a little bit more action in the... in the book Right. Just because he's coming from like a sort of propulsive.
Chris: uh -huh
Nate Day: previous project. I don't know, am I answering your question or am I just talking about...
Chris: Yeah, no, no, no, you are.
Nate Day: That's why this director's call.
Chris: a a i feel it made It made no sense to me before we started talking. i think I think you're probably right. It's probably a culmination of these things I'm thinking of.
Chris: Because my initial thought was this lady. So she passed at 97. So she was 72 when she published this.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: That cannot be like a demographic of authors that are being watched with a hawk's eye. for the next blockbuster.
Nate Day: No, probably not. i mean Maybe in in some cases, you know, we'll talk about Suzanne Collins. and Colleen Hoover later. uh this year on the podcast and they might be they might be for the rest of their lives. But no, I uh
Chris: based Based on a strong precedent.
Nate Day: Right, exactly. And which it sounds like PD James doesn't really.
Chris: Not coming from... they
Nate Day: have up until this is published, right?
Chris: yeah Yeah, the American equivalent, she's literally a baroness. The American equivalent would be if we had a side Senate. Of... oligarchs Which we do, but publicly acknowledged.
Nate Day: Which we do. Yeah.
Chris: And one of them came out, if if who's... Who's the Amazon asset? Uh, Bezos.
Nate Day: Bezos.
Chris: And suddenly he's like, Hey guys. Remember all those detective books I wrote that you liked? wait till you get a load of this dystopian future one. You know what I mean?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: If if I were a British citizen in 92, fresh off of 11 years of Margaret Thatcher, and suddenly a member of the House of Lords said, hey, I wrote a dystopian novel, I'd be like, you fucking built one.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: What do you mean you wrote one? You know, like it's, its and then.
Nate Day: Right. right
Chris: And then. a famous director from Mexico comes over and goes, man dickens and harry potter worked i bet this is another banger like it just sounds it sounds ludicrous to me the circumstances that could even make this happen
Nate Day: Yeah, I mean... It... it it is ludicrous and sometimes that's the magic of movies is that uh, because they're so collaborative.
Nate Day: They have to have like they can only happen at the right place in the right time. And sometimes it's a fucking disaster.
Chris: Yes, yes
Nate Day: And sometimes it's a miracle. And it's one of the many reasons that I love movies is because you're like. How did this happen? like it it It's...
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: It is crazy that PD James wrote this book, but... Ultimately, she sat down at a typewriter and did it. And that's how this story came. Right.
Chris: that's Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Nate Day: that's not how a movie happens. There's an entire industry that's like bent on.
Chris: Mm -hmm
Nate Day: making like pushing these gears. forward for a hundred different reasons so
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: So to say why it was chosen is like kind of impossible, especially 20 years later.
Chris: Yes. Yes.
Nate Day: also the movie at least is set in 2027. which is right around the corner.
Chris: Yes. But the
Nate Day: Crazy.
Chris: I believe that's exactly the same. If not... If not exactly the same, very near.
Nate Day: Yeah. Okay, so... I think i've I've said this several times now. I'm really fascinated by... the fertility crisis as the sort of engine.
Chris: Hold on.
Nate Day: of all of this.
Chris: Wait, pause, pause, pause.
Nate Day: Oh. Okay.
Chris: set in 2021.
Nate Day: Oh.
Chris: The book.
Nate Day: Hmm. I wonder why they changed that.
Chris: So five years ago.
Nate Day: Maybe just... Because that... was A few years later, I guess.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Well, if the book was published in 92 and they bought the rights in 97. Push back five years. They just push back the book date five years.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Okay
Nate Day: Okay, so I think i've I've said a few times now that I'm really interested in... a global fertility crisis being the engine of a post -apocalyptic thriller.
Nate Day: And and it's it's like so it's not glossed over in the movie, but you you just pick up these fragments as you go along. right like for example it opens with a news story about the youngest person on earth who's like 18 in a couple of months 18 years dying.
Nate Day: And so you're like, okay, so a kid hasn't been born in 18 years.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: We're 18 years, which means that we've reached like a labor shortage and we've reached. you know like all kinds of stuff that wouldn't happen within the first six months, like I said pharmaceuticals would crash, that would happen immediately.
Nate Day: If there weren't babies being born.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: The apocalypse would take a while. So I'm curious, do you get any backstory as to why the fertility crisis happened? Because you don't. In... the movie.
Chris: Nope, big mystery. They can't figure it out.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: They're still like testing men hoping someone will suddenly have viable Semen. Yeah.
Nate Day: Interesting.
Chris: And I think that again, I think that's why. She presented it in the way that she did because it decenters.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: that Massive event. as the Crisis.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And you float for a little while and then realize, no, the crisis is how would humans react?
Nate Day: right yeah and i think that you know again we talk about the circumstances that brought this Together, I don't know if you could write that like publish that before you were 72 years old How can you wrap your head around that?
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Do you know how much life she had to live to understand the economics?
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: That would lead to. apocalypse. You know what I mean?
Chris: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Nate Day: The first time I watched this movie was...
Chris: Well, and that that's a big...
Nate Day: I was like, why who cares about, bait you know, like, bummer. But then I was like, oh, wait. you know That does a lot of...
Chris: And that's that's a big... part of her wheelhouse.
Nate Day: work.
Chris: a lot of she she worked in hospital administration for a long time a lot of her detective novels are from the inside of government machinations inside of the NHS, England's famous, infamous, however you look at it, public health care system.
Nate Day: Sure. Yeah.
Chris: And so I think you're absolutely correct. I think it takes that level of knowledge to have the subtle. I mean, something I absolutely never would have thought of in a million years if you gave me this prompt and said, write a short story about this apocalyptic event.
Chris: They have...
Nate Day: Mm -hmm.
Chris: government -sanctioned Pornography stores And, Essentially. erotic happy ending massages.
Chris: Because... There is a public health reaction to. oh, we can't make kids anymore. People are no longer interested in sex.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And they're like. What happens if someone is viable, but everybody's quit having sex?
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: And so they don't. try anyway and I'm like I absolutely never would have gotten to that. And that's, I mean, I have no idea if it's realistic, but it's absolutely plausible.
Nate Day: Yeah. Totally. That's interesting that she went that way because my first thought is if you take potential pregnancy off the table, then STDs are going to be rampant. There's going to be nothing stopping people.
Chris: And she. she even addresses that oh i would have no more uh fear of pregnancy yeah and she's like yeah that's what happened initially and then
Nate Day: Oh, okay.
Nate Day: Oh. And then there's there's like sexual burnout.
Chris: And again, a logical... Uh, if this then what? Yeah, yeah, very. Jarring initially.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I think due to its brutal pragmatism.
Nate Day: Wow. Interesting. Okay, well, what did you give the what did you rate it on Goodreads?
Chris: Yeah, this guy, It got a firm three for me once again. I'm considering that rating. Now, in hindsight, now that I've really chewed on it. It,
Chris: It kind of falls between, we talked about this a couple books ago, if what we're looking at is humanity, this is certainly a novel approach to doing so. It it feels like...
Chris: Both. Both of the cool things that it could do are wearing each other's hats if it's a dystopian apocalypse
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: That's missing the mark if it's just this look at humanity. It is a curious and novel way to do it, but In some cool ways, does it...
Chris: Some service and justice, but I think in more ways makes it a bit convoluted And maybe that was her goal. that you really have to think your way there. I don't know, but for me...
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Not. the most exciting
Nate Day: Yeah. i i'm in a similar boat uh i i gave it four stars i feel like anything less than that is totally for the movie is totally disrespectful. because of those one shots and that the technique that was
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: required to pull it off. but You do... Because it becomes more of an action thriller, you lose some of that cerebral. Uh...
Nate Day: humanity stuff until you start kind of thinking about specifically the fertility crisis and the ways that it would affect, you know, you and I don't have. Kids.
Nate Day: And so like. You have to really step outside of yourself to think about how would this affect my life now?
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: How would my life be affected? in 18 years which is when you know this Like I said, the movie takes place 18 years down the road. and And the movie doesn't spoon feed that to you, which is the intention of. the movie it was supposed to be a technical Marvel and it is But you you sort of lose some of that.
Nate Day: I don't know that. like like almost philosophical
Nate Day: portion. i guess of of why the story was was created uh and then there's that that
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: sort of frenetic energy that i mentioned i can see why that would be totally just it wasn't totally distasteful to me or or out outside of my taste. but I could see why someone could maybe watch the.
Nate Day: that movie and be like, I can't even keep up with this. Because there's 18 characters that have come in and out and sometimes just out of the story with no explanation.
Chris: Yep.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: and everybody's got a bizarre accent because it's We're talking about people from Britain and Africa. and and Ireland and and all over the place.
Chris: From everywhere, yep.
Nate Day: and So...
Nate Day: I definitely do think that it, you know, like deserves its flowers, but I i see why it bombed at the box office, you know.
Chris: Yeah, yeah
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Well who would you recommend it to?
Nate Day: I think... I mean, I think primarily people that are fans of the post -apocalyptic.
Nate Day: genre. uh which obviously was really big i don't maybe I'm sure it still is big, but when I was in like...
Chris: Mhm.
Nate Day: High school was kind of when it was at its peak.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: In part because of, yeah.
Chris: Volcano.
Nate Day: but In part because of the Hunger Games movies. And I think... This sort of feels like a prequel to The Hunger Games, not just emotionally, but also kind of visually, too.
Chris: oh
Chris: I can see that.
Nate Day: It has that same sort of gray and brown. color palette too.
Chris: Mm -hmm
Nate Day: So I think. If you're interested in like... It's not The Hunger Games. You know, it's not a sci -fi. fantasy action.
Nate Day: movie. But I... if you're interested in like how a world like that could come to be this is a interesting text for you I think.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: What about you?
Chris: Yeah. that exact same answer i think if someone said that's like their wheelhouse those are the things they enjoy i think especially
Nate Day: Really?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: As I was saying... It kind of crosses between a couple. I think if someone has read all of those big ones already, Brave New World, 1984, The Road.
Chris: Dog stars, I guess. This would be an interesting, you get that same, scratches that same itch, but in a new and unique way.
Nate Day: yeah Yeah, it's just a different kind of a different perspective, a different angle. It's almost like... I keep going back to the Hunger Games because it really does look like the Hunger Games.
Nate Day: and you know just visually speaking.
Chris: m
Nate Day: It's sort of like... it If you imagine that the the whole story with Katniss and her rebellion was happening, but then somewhere clear across the world or country or what? Does that set in? is is doing something else.
Nate Day: You're following that somebody doing something else.
Chris: yes. Interesting.
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: I can totally see that.
Nate Day: like It's not about the rebellion, but you can't help but.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: you know beam. Bogged down by the politics happening around you
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Yep, I could totally see that.
Nate Day: Yeah. Cool. Well, up next, like I said, we're we're talking about Colleen Hoover. Verity, it's our last Anne Hathaway movie of the year, Chris.
Nate Day: St - Verity.
Chris: The patron saint herself.
Nate Day: I know. hopefully Hopefully next year she... Actually, hopefully she takes a goddamn break for herself and comes back in in two years. and
Chris: nah keep it ripping i want six next year
Nate Day: Yeah, maybe That would be pretty crazy. She's about to have a baby any minute now. so She wasn't allowed to do.
Chris: Oh.
Nate Day: hot ones the the talk show with the Chicken wings. uh with the escalating hot sauces because her doctor said it might cause premature labor so she had to sit it out of the
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: Uh, For this press, I know I was like, damn, what is in those hot sauces?
Chris: e
Chris: Yeah, what?
Nate Day: So. We're looking forward to. That episode and talking I'm gonna I'm gonna try and maybe watch another one or two Colleen Hoover movies to figure out what's going on but I think it's a good talk about prophetic. I think you and I will have a hard time wrapping our head around.
Nate Day: So what that author's up to, but.
Chris: Good. Bring it on.
Nate Day: Thank you for listening to our episode today. We look forward to our next one. And thank you for listening.
Chris: Bye.
