Transcript
Nate Day: Welcome to Adaptation, the book to movie podcast. I'm Nate.
Chris: And I'm Chris.
Nate Day: And today we are discussing... One Miss Colleen Hoover. and specifically her book Verity and the film adaptation. But before we dive into that. Chris, how are you? What you been up to? what you've been reading. What's going on?
Chris: I am wonderful. Yeah, I've been playing a lot. I had a uniquely New York experience. I've been told first near year in New York, you have to do this once.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Had a gig out in Hoboken Tuesday night. Went to karaoke with the boys after because I'm a sucker for karaoke.
Nate Day: You love karaoke
Chris: go Go get on the PATH train back to New York. and in the little tunnel crossing under the Hudson, my phone dies.
Nate Day: Oops.
Chris: And I have not learned the subways well enough to know how to get home.
Nate Day: yeah
Chris: So I went on a journey. I bet you I did about 40 ,000 steps. I got home at 8 .30 Wednesday morning.
Nate Day: Oh. My God. Was Blair freaking out?
Chris: Yeah. Yes, correct. Yep.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: So immediately upon getting my phone plugged in and telling her I was alive, I promised to order one of those chargers that like magnets to your phone. Because we have one.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: specifically for this purpose that I keep in my... My like auxiliary music case. I had put it in a different bag for a rehearsal Monday night.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Because I was worried this would happen. And then it just happened Tuesday with the wrong bag. Yeah.
Nate Day: Uh, Oh, God. Well. Nothing like a good... Punch of cortisol. for you know 12 hours.
Chris: Just. Cheers. cranked it up to 11. you know what that sunrise was magnificent though
Nate Day: I'm sure it was.
Chris: Heading east into Brooklyn.
Nate Day: I'm sure you felt like. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's crazy.
Chris: So that's what I've been up to.
Nate Day: Well, I'm glad you're alive.
Chris: I am too. I am too. Well, that was the thing. I was like. Very understandable. why Blair's freaking out.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Perfectly safe the whole time. And you know what?
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: There's also something freeing about a dead phone. just looking around seeing the world seeing some of these streets for the first time because i'm always
Nate Day: Oh yeah.
Chris: Audiobook cranked up walking somewhere at two times speed No.
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: Just just wandering.
Nate Day: Wow. That's crazy because you and I, you're lucky too. We've talked about how my... sense of direction is so terrible and you always know what cardinal direction you're pointed in.
Nate Day: And I have no idea ever. So that's probably how you made your way home, right?
Chris: That's it. That's the only way. Oh my gosh.
Nate Day: Bye.
Chris: Yeah. If I didn't. compulsively think about that i would have been i would have just been sitting i don't know like at Grand Central. begging for a phone charger.
Nate Day: Yeah, I wouldn't. I have known... I would have had to ask for help. I wouldn't know what to do. Or I'd just be Homeless. starting that day.
Chris: That's it. This is where I live now.
Nate Day: Yeah. Oh, that's terrible.
Chris: what What have you been up to?
Nate Day: Work's getting crazy. Work's always crazy, I guess. but Been going to the theater a little bit.
Nate Day: I can't remember if I mentioned last time that I saw Primetime. I think I did. the Chris Hansen movie.
Chris: Yes, yess yes, yes.
Nate Day: then. I saw... Digger. Have you seen the ads for that? The Tom Cruise movie where he plays like an ugly old dude.
Chris: No. What?
Nate Day: Not a huge surprise because it is one of the biggest bombs in... Hollywood history. But I think it's a fantastic movie.
Chris: Really?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Whoa, he looks old as dirt. Whoa, what?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Interesting. Okay.
Nate Day: it's a like a satirical farce kind of. Verity, obviously, and then... Just the other night, last night. Two nights ago. The Social Reckoning, which is the movie about Mark Zuckerberg and and
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Facebook and... January 6th specifically. Not a very good movie, but I think that there's... I don't know. I think there's some value in accessibility, which we might actually talk about Later in this episode.
Chris: We will indeed. We will indeed.
Nate Day: and
Chris: I just saw a trailer for that the first time.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Yesterday. But it wasn't it wasn't great.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Nate Day: No, it's not very nuanced. It's also it's supposed to be a sequel to... the social network which is the movie about.
Chris: Right.
Nate Day: the founding of facebook and also is one of the best movies ever made so following it up was just going to be a tough act
Chris: Hmm. Tough, yep.
Nate Day: to begin with, and unfortunately, the the writer director of this new movie has just not had a very good few years, I think he's kind of lost his... his touch a little bit.
Chris: and
Nate Day: So yeah, not. Not good, but I do think like... You know, it's like I said, it's accessible and I think kind of. It's not going to do well. unfortunately, but.
Nate Day: I do think that there is a level of importance.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: associated with these kind of stories being easy to digest.
Chris: Yep. important to talk about, bring up.
Nate Day: Yeah. what What have you been reading?
Chris: Unfortunately, well, I mean, fortunately, unfortunately, I've been playing a lot of music, so I haven't been reading as much. And part of that is also...
Nate Day: oh
Chris: I have been just neck deep in, The third book in this series that book that I pounded through on my drive back to New York from Denver.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I got a copy of the third one, The Hero of Ages. It's the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson. And these puppies are tomes.
Nate Day: Mhm.
Chris: They're massive. So it's taken me some time.
Nate Day: Oh, yeah, I think I saw you mark it on Goodreads as in progress or what is it called on that app?
Chris: Yeah, like a while ago. yeah
Nate Day: Yeah. That's right, because we've talked about.
Chris: Yeah, it's taking me some time.
Nate Day: Sanderson quite a bit. Well, mentioned him a few times.
Chris: I mean, an interesting... parallel to today's discussion but we'll get we'll get to that later
Nate Day: Oh. Okay, well, on that note...
Chris: Or we could get to it right now.
Nate Day: Yeah, why don't we jump into our discussion?
Chris: Great. Yeah.
Nate Day: And you can tell me a little bit about Colleen Hoover's. Verity.
Chris: Yeah, well, I'm glad that you brought it up. Obviously that's going to be a big part of the discussion. so I mean, we intended this sort of as a... She she had... Two adaptations come out this year.
Nate Day: Yeah, actually, one was earlier this year. Yeah, you're right.
Chris: So. My discussion, especially because Verity is so new and because of the nature of it, it'll sort of lend towards the housemaids discussion. I think there's a lot. we can't touch on because it would ruin it for people.
Nate Day: Sure. Spoiler -wise, yeah.
Chris: So I really focused my research this week more on her and this kind of phenomena that we've not discussed before.
Nate Day: Great.
Chris: Okay, so first of all, what the heck, why Colleen Hoover? in In my... synthesis synopsis analysis this is sort of a uniquely modern author's journey, which is cool.
Chris: Because we have not seen or discussed this. Really? I mean, we've touched on it. We've had modern American authors. But this is this is a cool story, and it explains sort of... some questions you and I were discussing, even in deciding. to do this episode, right?
Nate Day: Sure yeah.
Chris: So her first book was Slammed in 2012. I don't know, apocryphally. i anecdotally i i did not fact check this but supposedly this book she was self -published she actually self -published most of her work for a while But so supposedly this first one slammed.
Nate Day: Oh.
Chris: She self -published specifically because... Her mom got a Kindle. And she wanted to have it published so that her mom could read it on there.
Nate Day: Oh. Okay, cute.
Chris: which If true, is adorable.
Nate Day: Cool.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I have no reason not to believe it. I'm just giving the disclaimer that I did not fact check that fable at all. So it could be.
Nate Day: Well, yeah, how do you?
Chris: 100 % made up.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I went to look into it and I'm like, I don't care if it's true. It's a cool story. If it's not. I don't know. You're here and listening.
Nate Day: It's still a cool story.
Chris: still it's Still a cool story. Correct. So. There's this interesting, why I say it's a uniquely modern author's journey. I mean, first of all, obviously starting self -published, not...
Chris: Historically. how most authors.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: that are big enough for us to talk about start, right?
Nate Day: Mm -hmm.
Chris: If I counted correctly, I believe her catalog consists of some 24 novels and some change, a few short stories as well. And I think the literary awards she's received in particular kind of tell the story that I was.
Chris: stumbling along as well So she's received six in total that I saw.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Five of those six. our Goodreads Reader's Choice Awards.
Nate Day: Okay. I mean that says something.
Chris: Which?
Nate Day: about connecting to an audience, you know.
Chris: Yes. Exactly, exactly. And there's this somewhat indelible connection these days between, I mean, I follow the Goodreads. breeder awards i'm sure you do not
Nate Day: No, I'm... i'm trying to as I get more back into reading and stuff. That's sort of a goal.
Chris: Well, and there's... It's... I feel like I am for the first time understanding. Some of what you've described to me about TV and movie awards.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Because pretty consistently, they'll come out and... You know, they'll they'll show you the short list. They'll show you the number one, obviously, but it'll be a handful of here's what received the most votes. And pretty consistently for any given category, some more than others, obviously, all have read.
Chris: four to six of them. And have. I mean, polemic is too strong a word. but somewhat polarized opinions.
Chris: You know what I mean?
Nate Day: Yeah. Sure. Yeah, it's not perfectly representative of... our tastes, you know, Nate and Chris, but Still important.
Chris: Exactly. Exactly. and i'll Uh. You know where movies? I will happily just say, show me the... Not Grammys.
Chris: Which ones are movies? Oscars? Is Oscars movies?
Nate Day: Oscars, yeah.
Chris: show me the oscars list great now i've got what i'll go watch i'll just trust it implicitly where
Nate Day: Yeah.
Nate Day: Sure.
Chris: Goodreads, someplace I've explored much more, feel more personally attached to. uh I certainly would not just grab that list. Like here was the top 10 shortlist for a given award.
Chris: Okay, that's my TBR.
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: I would not do that because I know people have different wheelhouses, people have different tastes.
Nate Day: Okay.
Nate Day: Mm -hmm.
Chris: And so I do think it's telling this connection between the Reader's Awards, particularly on Goodreads. and Book Talk, which we have discussed before.
Nate Day: Yes.
Chris: More or less, I don't want to undersell her by any means. She is absolutely, clearly a successful author in her own right. But more or less, a lot of that success is attributed to...
Chris: Blowing up on BookTok. Sales go up. Suddenly everybody's optioning. the adaptations.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Now we have Colleen Hoover. Right.
Nate Day: Yep. Yeah. That's my understanding. Right. And because of the pandemic, partly, which is when. TikTok in general blew up, right?
Chris: mm -hmm everybody's chronically online everybody's got nothing to do but read the next book that someone they like on tiktok says and voila we have this Again, I should have prefaced this at the very top.
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: I want to say none of these things from a... disparaging judging gatekeeping angle
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: this is This is what I gathered and my experience with 1 .5 of her own books, okay?
Nate Day: Sure. Got it.
Chris: So... the the Most interesting comparison I found online was essentially that Her writing feels like...
Chris: if you grew up on you know the Harry Potter, Twilight fan fiction, YA novels.
Nate Day: oh Fan fiction?
Chris: the Within the Realm, fan fiction, YA novels.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Now you're an adult. Now these adult themes are appropriate.
Nate Day: Oh. Got it. Yeah, got it.
Chris: It's it was it was.
Nate Day: Yes.
Chris: I don't remember where I found it, but I saw someone comparing it. there It's like a bridge. From YA to... you know whatever else we would consider adult novels.
Nate Day: Sure. Yeah.
Chris: and And that's very much how it reads.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: the accessibility. That was.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: unquestionably the number one adjective I saw over and over and over, this woman's writing is accessible.
Nate Day: Really? Okay, so that's not just... I just had that thought watching the two. movies that I've scene.
Nate Day: So interesting.
Chris: So the movies felt similar.
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah. and uh Yes, and in conversation with some of the criticisms that I've heard of Colleen Hoover and her writing and And these... film adaptations i'm like well i think you're kind of missing something important
Chris: interesting
Nate Day: which is... that it's accessible, yeah.
Chris: Yes, yes. Well, and that's why that's why I gave the disclaimer that I did, because two of those words are very... hot -button often said critically or disparagingly.
Chris: both YA and accessible.
Nate Day: Mm.
Chris: Because... Uh... you know, this rich. tradition within literary circles of the academic ivory tower.
Chris: No, you need to be reading Dubliners. You need to battle with the text. You need to be challenged.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: who Who?
Nate Day: Not always.
Chris: says so. Who says so?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Why is accessibility? and I mean, I can absolutely see from a writer's standpoint why someone's saying, oh, yes, I loved your manuscript. It was so accessible. you know, in parentheses.
Chris: Uh... Little use of unique words.
Nate Day: Simple, easy.
Chris: Yes, exactly, exactly.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And so that really challenged me a lot as I as i went through this.
Chris: I so so That was the description I saw. I went and tracked down Verity right away. Verity is her only book that I finished completely. I got about halfway through It Ends With Us. Not because I was disliking it, I just ran out of time.
Nate Day: Okay. Do you think you'll finish it?
Chris: I do I do intend to finish it It was very curious.
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: And I'll bring it up later in my ratings. I put my rating for Verity up and my buddy Brett, who we had on for Minority Report to talk about Philip K. Dick's writing.
Nate Day: This is so awesome
Chris: Absolutely blasted me.
Nate Day: know I couldn't believe it.
Chris: yeah Well, and it was curious because you had told me what you thought of. The film, it ends with us compared to Verity.
Chris: And he had.
Nate Day: Uh huh.
Chris: virtually the opposite reaction. He really enjoyed. I don't want to misquote him. I think both the text and the movie of it ends with us more than Verity.
Chris: And so I had to.
Nate Day: That's hard for me to believe, knowing Brett.
Chris: I had two very competing opinions in my head, and I read them in the opposite order.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I read Verity first and truly enjoyed it, and then was only partway into It Ends With Us.
Nate Day: Okay, interesting.
Chris: Uh. A somewhat humorous quote that I saw online was her writing is. Dan Brown for moms. Which I don't think is intended to be a slight There is obviously this we have discussed. a critical literary, I would say, gatekeeping and unnecessary aspect of the community that if there's any form of eroticism... Now this is less than.
Chris: In a... Meaningful. literary or media capacity, right?
Nate Day: Sure. Okay.
Chris: Which is garbage. That's...
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Screw off, no one wants your opinion
Nate Day: Right. Right.
Chris: Like you don't like it? Great, don't read it. like then it's not for you.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: That's fine. I just thought that quote was hilarious because Dan Brown does feel much the same. I mean, DaVinci code objectively fun. is it Is it challenging the world or moving social causes forward?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: No, but that wasn't his goal, right?
Nate Day: Right.
Nate Day: Totally.
Chris: and And I don't think this comparison was intended as a slight to either author. Their writing is. Fun? They do indeed deal with real and serious topics, but that doesn't mean they're going to challenge you, the consumer, the reader.
Nate Day: Sure.
Chris: so So preparing for this, it very much. I mean I had to check my own biases before going into this i was very much ready and i don't even know why Because I'm not.
Chris: Typically a contrarian. but I was very much ready to not enjoy it. this woman's writing.
Nate Day: I think that makes sense. in the ways that it's in line with. The Housemaid and The Devil Wears Prada and some of the things that we have read for discussion that you were kind of like.
Nate Day: You know. Technically thumbs up.
Chris: Yes, exactly. i mean Once again, a title I almost certainly would not have gotten to were we not doing it. Right.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: But what I had to face... to to prepare for this discussion. And I want to do my first discussion question here because I think it's far more pertinent now than at the end.
Nate Day: Yeah. Okay.
Chris: Is seriousness... you know this idea of challenging the reader, forcing these questions.
Chris: In that discussion with Brett, a lot of Philip K. Dick's writing, what's what's compelling about it is it forces you to view society and your part in it. Is seriousness, or in this case an arguable lack thereof,
Chris: Again, I want to be careful. It ends with us, deals heavily with her personal experience of domestic violence, that this is not a light topic. This is not to be taken lightly or to joke about.
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: But overall, the text is really still, it's it's a presentation. It is not facing you with those thoughts. so
Chris: Perhaps where does this come from? Because my initial question was, is seriousness a marker of good writing? I have to imagine we both agree fundamentally, no, that's not.
Nate Day: Yeah. Correct.
Chris: So the question is more, where do you think that idea? comes from why is it so prevalent i'm not going to say it's the primary withheld thought of the zeitgeist.
Chris: but it is undeniably there. And has been.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And. Probably will be.
Nate Day: Mm -hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think it exists across all forms of art you know if you look at like Taylor Swift and Beyonce. yeah or or even I think just the other day Taylor Swift came out with.
Nate Day: a handful of songs or a new album or something and there were jokes all over i'm not really a swifty so my tick tock algorithm of course is full of these jokes that's like Here's what Taylor Swift's music sounds like. And it's like jingles from commercials. and you know, little skits of baby Mary -Kate and Ashley Olsen singing about dinosaurs.
Nate Day: and and
Chris: Yup.
Nate Day: Things like that. so I think there's...
Nate Day: You know, we we like to... Think that our taste is the best taste. whatever it is, whether you are a Swifty or a Colleen Hoover.
Nate Day: fan or Hey. you know, you only listen to Jazz music. by the greats or whatever.
Chris: Mm -hmm.
Nate Day: And then... compound that with social media, which I think you cannot talk about Colleen Hoover without. understanding that she lives in the world of social media.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: And the fact that social media, speaking of the Facebook movie and social reckoning, the algorithm is made to. Get you wound up. and to make you. Feel these things. I have a friend i I was with my friends this last weekend and I said our next.
Nate Day: Episode is about Colleen Hoover, and my friend was like, ugh, I hate Colleen Hoover. And I was like, oh, really? What book was it that you read that? that You decided and she said I've never read a Colleen Hoover book And I was like.
Chris: the
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: then what is this opinion?
Nate Day: Right. And I mean... You know, you can look at like the synopses of her books and and be like, these don't sound interesting to me. And that's one thing. but we're We're just so inclined to believe that our taste is good no matter what, so we latch on to the flaws of other things, which can sometimes be a... a term like simple or accessible or Pop. Bye.
Nate Day: anything like that. Does that answer your question?
Chris: Yes. No, it answers it brilliantly, in fact. Yeah. And I was. Feeling very similar conclusions myself. That's why I really had to.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: i was I honestly couldn't even, because I'm not on TikTok, so a lot of... What is polarizing both what? gave her considerable fame and a lot of the credit.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: criticism. I simply have not. witnessed. So all I have is...
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: This one one full book that I've gotten through and I was like Why? Why on earth do I, I don't even know where this sense of I'm not going to like this came from. I have no idea
Nate Day: Yeah. I don't... I don't know either. I mean... what The conclusion that my friends and I came to when I said, what book did... Did you read and not like? uh was that there are like vibes out there and there is information out there about Like I said, you can read the synopses or... particularly when it comes to It Ends With Us. I remember...
Nate Day: There was some discussion about whether or not she was glamorizing.
Chris: Hmm. Yeah, I saw that too.
Nate Day: Uh, domestic abuse. And I was like, I don't think that that term is quite nuanced enough. But. you know So there is a part of you that hears a sentence like this book glamorizes domestic abuse and you go, OK, I'm a good person.
Nate Day: I'm not going to read a book that glamorizes domestic abuse.
Chris: Yep. Yep.
Nate Day: The unfortunate thing is you're not making up your own mind.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: in that situation.
Chris: I...
Nate Day: TikTok is.
Chris: Never want to hear. someone's opinion on an author if they have not read any i mean it feels the same with movies
Nate Day: I know. I was sort of like, what?
Chris: Oh yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I knew I would hate it. I didn't even see it. Well, then don't give me any further opinion.
Nate Day: Right, then what do you, yeah, then. It's moot. I don't care what you have to say.
Chris: Yes. Agreed. Yeah, no, that's that's a brilliant answer. Overall... And and this this comparison I knew... would Will not resonate with you that you'd have the same opinion, but that that the analogy.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: It felt like I was just enjoying a TV show in book form. I've never gone to an episode of...
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Brooklyn nine, nine. or Bob's Burgers with the hope that I would feel challenged and come out the other side illuminated and a better understanding the human experience.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: No. We're there to be entertained. And did this book do that?
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: Wow, that's a good analogy because I love those shows
Chris: Yes. Yes, but still, I mean, oh.
Nate Day: And they're so stupid.
Chris: And I think that's what I love. I don't i mean, i have I have discussions with friends about TV as a media in particular often.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I come to TV. To finish. You know, working with kids in the morning, going to two rehearsals after teaching a lesson. I don't want to come in here and have someone present me with here's what's wrong with society and what you should be doing to fix it.
Nate Day: Yeah. Right.
Chris: I want to see Andy Samberg doing. virtually bathroom slapstick comedy. for 22 minutes and fall asleep.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: You know?
Nate Day: That sounds perfect, actually. Yeah.
Chris: and And that I had to stop and examine for myself as well. My book club. We did... probably three years ago now, they started a series that was 12 books long, and it was presented to me from multiple audiences as...
Chris: like in anime and book form. And some weird... holier -than -thou, judgy... This jerk down in my little lizard brain said, I don't need 12 books of TV, so I skipped it. I said, you guys tell me when you're done with the series. I'm not even going to read it.
Chris: Why?
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: I just read seven volumes of Naruto.
Nate Day: Uh -huh.
Chris: What's wrong with reading for entertainment? Yeah, I really I really had to stop and examine that.
Nate Day: Not a thing.
Chris: And that's exactly what this book. felt I mean, I know you were shocked at the speed I got through it. I certainly was.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I could not put it down. I think it was sub 36 hours that I read Verity.
Nate Day: Oh my god.
Chris: Have you
Nate Day: That's fun. I can see how, though. Having seen the movie, I can... See how.
Chris: I mean, high tension. We talked about this with Jurassic Park.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: There's really not a boring point. You are presented another... Another not criticism that sounds like a criticism I saw a lot online was it feels obvious. And honestly, I think that's a...
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: Brilliant choice on her part. Yes. You see exactly where this is going.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I mean, at some points. Delightfully, You see exactly where you think it's going and you're wrong. But... That just builds the tension more. There's nothing wrong with that.
Nate Day: Right. It's a pulpy thriller.
Chris: Yes. Yes. do Will I ever read it again? No, of course not. But for those 36 hours, I had a blast. And all I wanted to do.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: was continue reading this book.
Nate Day: Okay. Good glad to hear that.
Chris: So those are my thoughts on the book Verity. So difficult to discuss without spoilers. I don't even... Kind of don't even want to attempt.
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. That's great.
Chris: I am curious, which character is our patron saint? In the movie.
Nate Day: Oh, Anne Hathaway plays Verity. the title character.
Chris: Okay. Okay, that's what I figured. Yeah, I.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I cannot wait to see the movie. I'm a little sad I haven't yet. Just been crunched. But.
Nate Day: Oh, yeah, that's right. You did mention that you were.
Chris: So much fun.
Nate Day: going to try and see it.
Chris: So much fun.
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah, well, as a teaser. I'm in a pretty similar boat. But. We're going to take a quick break and talk about the movie when we come back.
Nate Day: Welcome back to Adaptation. Today we're talking about... Colleen Hoover and Verity. Like Chris said, I kind of want to avoid some some spoilers for the movie since it's... new and seems to be doing well in theaters. and i I just don't like to ruin things for people, but I think we should mention. the the sort of general plot of the movie, which is that a woman...
Nate Day: who is a I guess small time author is hired. as a ghostwriter for a Colleen Hoover -esque author who cannot complete a very lucrative franchise for her publishers.
Nate Day: And so she actually ends up going and and living in Verity's home with her family. for... i don't know a couple weeks, months, something.
Chris: Yeah. no it's a pretty short timeline
Nate Day: to to comb through notes and and figure it out. and Calamity ensues. actually Probably not Calamity, but...
Chris: Uh...
Nate Day: A lot of weirdness, for sure.
Chris: but I mean, calamity's not wrong.
Nate Day: Well, the end is... Yeah, I guess it is calamity. But anyway, it's a fun thriller.
Chris: Catastrophe?
Nate Day: Yeah, catastrophe is probably more along the lines of of what I'm looking for. Yeah, interesting story. Like you mentioned, Colleen Hoover really...
Nate Day: blew up. just over the last couple of years.
Nate Day: largely because of of TikTok and social media. And so she's become a really big. like hot ticket in Hollywood to adapt her movies. the The first of which was It Ends With Us in 2024.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: Verity is the fourth. adaptation of Colleen Hoover. material, the other two being regretting you and reminders of him. I have only seen It Ends With Us and Verity.
Nate Day: Uh, Because the others just looked so... Terrible. But look, that's the conversation that we just had, right? Maybe I need to. eat crow and and watch the rest of these movies.
Chris: now Now, to be fair, I'm going to finish It Ends With Us because it was not. Bad enough not to. But it is absolutely not the same experience that reading Verity was.
Nate Day: Yeah, and I've heard that quite a bit. like I think Verity is known as her her best book, Colleen Hoover's best book. popular outside of the Colleen Hoover circle of fans.
Nate Day: my My sister, who was on for The Housemaid, She says that. She's really not a Colleen Hoover fan, but is... is Pretty stoked about this. particular book Verity so so It does.
Nate Day: you know, step outside of itself a little bit. And part of that is just the format it's not You know, it's it's much darker than... in tone than most of Colleen Hoover's stuff.
Chris: Oh my gosh, I'm so scared. May I interrupt?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: okay immediately upon starting the movie part i totally forgot about this bit when I wanted to tell you about the like modern author aspect.
Nate Day: Oh. Okay.
Chris: Uh.
Nate Day: Yeah, please.
Chris: She's doing... She has done some really cool, interesting stuff. outside of what we would normally expect from authors her and another author Taryn Fisher. I don't know if you heard about this.
Nate Day: Mm -mm.
Chris: They wrote a novel. Chapter by chapter, trading off.
Nate Day: Oh. That's cool.
Chris: And then, like...
Nate Day: That's fun.
Chris: Even they did not know where it was going to go. And as the other would add these unique ideas, they'd go back and retroactively make changes so that it was cohesive. Her and a composer worked together on one of her novels.
Nate Day: Cool.
Nate Day: Wow What composer? Do you have that?
Chris: I'm looking I'm looking I'm looking
Nate Day: Written down.
Chris: nuts. I'm not going to find it. But very interesting.
Nate Day: That's okay, I'll look it up.
Chris: Yes, here we go. griffin peterson so he made a novel to go with her uh no he did not make a novel he made a soundtrack to go with her novel maybe someday and so it comes with a scannable qr code so you can fire up the playlist.
Nate Day: Wow.
Chris: while you read.
Nate Day: Cool.
Chris: I mean really doing cool stuff embracing this very unique, very modern, this ethos.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: That could not have happened. Honestly, even really in 2012 when she first started publishing, much less when most of the authors we discuss are going.
Nate Day: Ever. Yeah.
Chris: Sorry, what however you phrase that sparked.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: that remembrance for me.
Nate Day: Well, I'm That's I'm glad you did mention that because Like I said earlier, I think, yeah, you can't talk about Colleen Hoover without talking about TikTok and social media and and the way that things.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: build through those mediums. which is Which is kind of... uh why we ended up with the types of movies that we have which are really accessible because social media is owned by
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: Everybody? Well, not owned by everybody, but... I wish it was owned by everybody.
Chris: but
Nate Day: But we all have profiles, right? and And we use those to to interact and sort of express ourselves. But anyway. A lot of... Yeah, some of these movies are not worth really mentioning. in terms of cinematic history, particularly the two that I skipped, regretting you and reminders of him. I do want to... mentioned that It Ends With Us was an enormous hit at the box office.
Nate Day: And. It caused so much. I'm sure you've heard of some of the behind the scenes drama. There was a lot of really awful stuff that just... happened. I guess, on the set. and and in promoting the movie. that made it really unfortunate. and particularly for that movie in general. I was like, this was the story you were telling when you were screwing around? so I share that just to say that there are high stakes because that movie despite being a huge hit is is marred with that.
Nate Day: You'll never hear about It Ends With Us without talking about... the situation between its it's stars and director. And then we get Verity. just couple weeks ago directed by michael showalter who's done a lot of I don't know if rom -coms is the... though, right?
Nate Day: phrase for his filmography, the right adjective, but it's a lot of sort of cozy comfort movies that do this sort of...
Chris: Mm -hmm
Nate Day: Not necessarily challenging. You kind of thing just entertaining you his last movie was also with Anne Hathaway And funny, you mentioned fan fiction earlier. The movie is called The Idea of You. It's based on a book. It's about a woman.
Nate Day: like in her forties, a mom, a single mom who meets and falls in love with a boy band. boy like a young guy. So it's just like me.
Nate Day: may december thing sort of a little bit and And that book started as...
Nate Day: Fan fiction about. Harry Styles. So...
Chris: In. Incredible.
Nate Day: It's all. baked into the DNA here. And. Written by Nick. I might butcher this name. and a And that's good. And. and not.
Chris: me
Nate Day: And I think that kind of comes through. In the movie. Which... It does this really interesting thing. I'm struggling to even... articulate it because it it basically creates camp which I think is kind of...
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: Basically, until I saw this, what what I thought was impossible to... intentionally create something campy but It leans into the pulpiness of the story so hard.
Chris: Yep.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: There's some very specific. stylistic. callbacks to Alfred Hitchcock films in this movie. Also, the the title card at the beginning is so 1980s, like Fatal Attraction type.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: thing So it's it's. very much knows what it's in the lineage of, and it leans into that a lot. And I think even the casting. is a piece of that as well. It stars Dakota Johnson.
Nate Day: As. Whatever. Lowen Ashleigh Not a real name. That's crazy. and
Chris: Low. Low. Oh, I love when he says my name low.
Nate Day: Low.
Chris: That's what cows do. Stay low.
Nate Day: They moo. Anyway, like you know she's not... She has a really unique place in Hollywood, being like one of Hollywood's ultimate nepo babies and grandbabies.
Nate Day: she She often is in situations where she doesn't. come across very... like a brilliant actress even though i do think that she is very good but usually her hits
Chris: Hmm. Mm.
Nate Day: are not her strongest performances so i think that was very intentional to put her in this movie
Chris: Huh.
Nate Day: you know at the center of this movie.
Chris: Who who are I don't know who this is.
Chris: What did you Dakota?
Nate Day: Dakota Johnson. Her parents are... Don Johnson. and Melanie Griffith.
Chris: Oh my gosh! So...
Nate Day: And Melanie Griffith is the daughter of Tippi Hedren. and was married to several people, including Antonio Banderas. So she had some step. family for a while that was also in the industry.
Nate Day: So
Chris: brother, you had me at Don Johnson.
Nate Day: She is...
Chris: Miami Vice is the perfect show. No notes.
Nate Day: Yeah. See? i knew you'd I knew you'd get it. And then Josh Hartnett plays the the... Verity's husband, I forget what his character's name is. But he was like... a Kind of a teen heartthrob guy, so also not necessarily known for handing in A -plus performances.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: and he I mean, he has throughout his career, but... Again, not what he's known for. And Anne Hathaway as Verity. you know She really sort of grounds everything. She's obviously...
Nate Day: Lauded actress. Oscar -winning actress, and she's really just there to chew scenery. She doesn't have a very big Roll.
Chris: Best movie of all time. Princess Diaries.
Nate Day: Yeah. yeah It is a good one. She's also struggled, like... In the tab. public eye a little bit. having you know, being so expressive, I suppose. It's...
Nate Day: Not easy to be a woman in America. And...
Chris: Do they do they do? I have to imagine again, trying not to give away. too much of the plot. Do they do a lot of... I don't know, monologue -y, narrator -y things from her perspective, because otherwise it's it's a fairly small role.
Nate Day: Yeah, it is a it is a small role. and
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: It kind of only works for Anne Hathaway because she outacts. everybody in the movie like when she's not narrating, you're like, This is. almost a little bit boring. because she's just that good.
Chris: Well, just basically...
Nate Day: My big criticism with the movie.
Chris: When I...
Nate Day: Go ahead.
Chris: when When I saw the rolls, I assumed that she would be low and not Verity, just because of... because of that.
Nate Day: How big she is. Yeah. she She operates sort of similar. She's like the center of gravity for for the.
Chris: uh -huh
Nate Day: story obviously just like verity but also the movie
Chris: uh -huh Just on screen.
Nate Day: in general because she is Anne Hathaway.
Chris: Okay.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: Yeah, my my big criticism for the movie is that it's not terribly cinematic because a lot of it is just... low en reading. things that
Chris: just You know how it's...
Nate Day: that Verity has written. In a house, yeah.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: so
Chris: yet
Nate Day: and not Not perfect for film adaptation, but those parts are narrated by Anne Hathaway. uh and include some some like flashbacks of Anne Hathaway sort of.
Chris: Okay.
Nate Day: you know acting out what she's writing. so she's She's there. It needed more Anne Hathaway, but... Meh.
Chris: We all do.
Nate Day: you know. Yeah. Exactly. I will say it got a pretty good smackdown from both critics and audiences. but it's it's performing pretty well despite that i saw that it got a c plus cinema score which is Not good at all.
Nate Day: It's pretty rare for him.
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: successful movie to have a unless it's horror which this leans into but Most movies end up with like a... in the A range, A.
Nate Day: A plus or A minus.
Chris: Oh wow.
Nate Day: if they perform well financially. But it's doing okay so far. This weekend's numbers haven't come in yet. So we'll see how big the the drop is, but it did well in its first. opening weekend. And then, of course, it's it's rotten on on Rotten Tomatoes right now, but it's close to like 50 -50. We talked about...
Nate Day: That. percentage is is How many people give it a positive review? So if it's at... 59%, that means that there's a 59 % chance that you're going to think positively of the movie.
Chris: mm -hmm
Nate Day: And it's in that range. I guess, let me look up really quick. what what it's sitting at right now. just for specificity's sake this is another app i don't really know how to walk how to He is.
Nate Day: Ooh dang. Yeah. Well it's down to a 32 on Rotten Tomatoes.
Chris: Wow Whoa.
Nate Day: But...
Chris: I'm shocked.
Nate Day: I... I am a little bit too, just because I felt like it. pretty clearly was Joking. about itself. and And some of the reviews that I've read call it like shockingly watchable or or shockingly enjoyable, things like that. That seems really low to me.
Nate Day: I don't think it's that bad. I think it's trying to be that bad. So maybe like...
Chris: Mm -hmm.
Nate Day: Maybe the idea is that they give it a bad review because giving it a good one is sort of the... antithesis of
Chris: uh -huh
Nate Day: Success almost, right?
Chris: I mean, it feels it feels like the The response that I was seeing trying to look at the critical review of the book.
Nate Day: In a weird backwards way.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: It feels like if you sat down and watched Days of Our Lives and then were annoyed.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: You know?
Nate Day: That it was soapy? Yes, that's exactly right.
Chris: Yeah, what did you expect?
Nate Day: And. and That's why I'm saying like I think Dakota Johnson's. Like a lot of people are like, oh my God, her worst performance to date. And I'm like, have you? right like did you watch the movie
Chris: Ha!
Nate Day: It was supposed to be bad. Her character is named Lowen Ashleigh
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: What even does that mean? So. I'm a little surprised at how poor the reception is. It seems to me like... a movie i don't know that it's ever going to undergo some big reclamation culturally, but I do think that it will find an audience.
Nate Day: you know several little pockets will sort of catch this wave. and and find ways to enjoy it. I don't know. And I kind of think that like in the canon of Anne Hathaway, who's one of the great American actors of our time. this is like a good entry she had a really good year this year and this is not In my opinion, it's not a black mark on on that year.
Chris: o
Nate Day: You know?
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: I think it...
Chris: Interesting.
Nate Day: fit's in she's it's She's doing something a lot different than she is in... The Odyssey But... It was still.
Chris: Certainly.
Nate Day: good and enjoyable. Like her work was still.
Chris: Well, you know besides all of her dialogue being her talking to her son Yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah. I mean. It's silly. It's campy. It's pulpy. It's stupid. It's... But it's you know popcorn movie stuff
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: That's pretty much Uh, everything i have to say about the movie since i don't want to spoil anything and
Chris: I know these when we do these very current ones, it's so tough.
Nate Day: and
Nate Day: It is tough. But it's kind of fun to look at like how... how and why they came about. You know?
Chris: Yes. Agreed.
Nate Day: Okay, so why don't we dive into... I know we did one of your discussion questions already. What's your next? Next one.
Chris: Yeah, well, actually, I think this is this is a very good segue from your discussion of sort of the industry more broadly. Okay, this is a long question, so I'm just going to read the whole thing. Stick with me. So I think questions.
Chris: And perhaps this is an oversimplification or only my understanding, but I feel... I feel... Okay, suggesting this is felt by more than just myself. I think questions of...
Chris: entertainment value, quote unquote, versus thinking. has always been in the back of my mind when approaching books. Do you feel that same way about movies? And I want you to answer that before I ask my follow -up.
Nate Day: Okay. Always in the back of my mind.
Chris: Like like if you go, what's the next movie you think you'll see?
Nate Day: I have tickets to probably Sense and Sensibility. this next weekend.
Chris: Okay. And so going in before you're even at the theater, you're in the car on the way there. Is there any part of your brain that's like preparing?
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Is this? going to challenge me? Do I already know some of the moral quandaries that I'll be presented with? or
Nate Day: o
Chris: This is just for fun. I'm going to the movies. or do you are you Perhaps you're more open -minded than that, and I'm a judgy Judy.
Nate Day: No, I'm just trying to figure out how to articulate my answer because I often, I think. Tell me if this is kind of along the lines of what you're thinking. I often know what I'm going to get myself into.
Nate Day: to a certain degree.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: I knew that or didn't know, but had a strong inclination that Verity was not going to be a masterpiece in my eyes. but I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw.
Nate Day: so like
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: I don't know that I'm like... literally having a discussion with myself about
Nate Day: What to expect. But I did know that like... I enjoyed the housemaid last year. And then.
Chris: Mm -hmm.
Nate Day: Right before I saw Verity, I enjoyed Digger, which, like I said, flopped, also is rotten on Rotten Tomatoes, is probably the year's most divisive movie, and I happened to enjoy it. So.
Nate Day: i I think I just am trying to go in with sort of a clear head. I have some perceptions. So like when it comes to sense and sensibility. Next weekend. probably isn't going to challenge me because I've seen the previous sense and sensibility.
Chris: right
Nate Day: But I've heard great things about this new adaptation. So I'm very excited to see. how it's different, if it's different. Or is it just a good? read Redo.
Nate Day: you know what i mean and that's fine too and i i guess what i'm saying is i'm keeping expectations
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: Low. Because it's always more fun. for things to exceed expectations.
Chris: Yes, yes, fair, fair, fair, fair.
Nate Day: Right?
Chris: Okay. Yeah. Okay, and then the my follow -up, more about the industry. more globally. And we touched on this earlier, the literary community has a strong and illustrious history of Gate.
Chris: keeping and judging on
Nate Day: Mm hmm.
Chris: you know, judging the strength in particular of writing. on how it challenges mentally. You know, this idea that accessibility is almost a
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: bad thing do you feel that movie making
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: has a similar ethos you know the examples i was thinking of are like wayne's world or whatever that one about getting to white castle Are filmmakers making and writing those things considered...
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: Less artistic. Less... I don't want to say skilled perhaps, but... Is there a sense that that's looked down upon?
Nate Day: Yes, I think Yes, is the answer. I mean... Even if you look at and We just. mention that awards aren't everything, but it's like very rare for comedies to be nominated for Oscars.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: streaming movies, even television. Well. a television movie can't get an Oscar nomination, but a streaming movie. can if it's given the right kind of release, but...
Nate Day: Yeah, I mean, even when I said that Michael Showalter, the director of this movie. uh He'll never get. an intellectual script, hand it to him. He won't.
Nate Day: because his movies are like verity and
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: The idea of you, the other one that I.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: mentioned. he doesn't make that kind of... movie so he'll just never he'll never be nominated for an oscar unless something Very true DRASTIC changes.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: I don't know that there Maybe they're a little bit more coy about that. uh prejudice right like It's This movie's going to make a lot of money.
Nate Day: So he's helping to keep the industry alive.
Chris: Right. Right.
Nate Day: So when a movie like Digger that costs... You know, it's going to lose like $250 million dollars for... the new paramount
Chris: Wow.
Nate Day: Warner Brothers. studio called Skydance.
Chris: Monopoly.
Nate Day: Yeah, fully. So... you know And that movie was directed by like an auteur and stars Tom Cruise, the biggest movie star.
Nate Day: maybe kind of pretty much of all time. and
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: was supposed to be like critically lauded. and and Ended up not. being that. so Who wins? You know who really wins?
Chris: Right.
Nate Day: Is there such thing as winning? I don't know. But yes, there is a...
Nate Day: stigma, I guess. against. stories like this. I just think that because the industry is so financially dependent on them. so frequently.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: that you you kind of can't like Look down your nose at them, but they don't make it to the cool kids table you know.
Chris: Right. Right, right. Oh, that's not a thinker. You're not challenging society, but also... Come on Adam Sandler Keep those puppies coming.
Nate Day: Right. Yeah.
Chris: Like, what is this?
Nate Day: yeah Totally.
Chris: What is this dichotomy? and who And who is it that gets to say, I mean, the the question the question is not, is it serious or is it not? That's a fairly objective idea. but this This idea that I've felt challenged with, and again... Perhaps.
Chris: That's a personal bias, and I've held this more. then is... more widely considered, but it does seem very much. You are...
Chris: I mean, honestly, I wanna say less of an artist. Bless. Uh...
Nate Day: have
Chris: I don't know, competent at your craft where this is the exact same craft.
Nate Day: Right.
Chris: And.
Nate Day: Hmm.
Chris: Yeah, it's a moving target. Who knows what? Her goal was.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: or or Or Adam Sandler's. I feel pretty confident saying Adam Sandler's goal is I want movies that make people laugh. And boy, does he knock that out of the park.
Nate Day: Yeah. And not even that. Because now all of his movies... also co -star his wife and kids. He just wants to go to go on vacation.
Chris: And... And like. take these wildly serious i mean like click and happy gilmore too like yeah they they did not shy away from some real and serious topics and i still left laughing and thought a little
Nate Day: Yeah.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I don't know.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: It just made me really consider. Like, yes. Okay. Also, objectively. YA novels are that way for a reason deliberately you know a vocabulary that's at a rating level that's accessible
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: But why why would that make it less adult? If I can read... Dubliners, I can also read. convergence And I can also enjoy both.
Nate Day: Right. Right. And... you know i was talking about the well we've been talking about the importance of accessibility The thing that struck me when I was watching It Ends With Us.
Nate Day: which I don't think is a very good movie, by the way. But I was like, you know what? Some woman is going to watch this movie and realize that she is. Like... in the beginning stages of a domestic.
Chris: Hmm. Hmm.
Nate Day: abuse situation.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: because the movie kind of addresses how you kind of explain it away and
Chris: Yes, yes, very much so.
Nate Day: sweep some things under the rug. Yeah. And I was like, i yeah It's not that woman's fault that she didn't. get that information from Uh...
Nate Day: I don't know, the Odyssey or something, you know, like.
Chris: Right.
Nate Day: some other text that's That's more. critically celebrated it doesn't matter if that raises the alarm bells for her then Who the hell cares?
Chris: Good. Good.
Nate Day: You know, and Verity like Verity is a little more pulpy and campy and it's more of a thriller than it is a real life.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: story.
Chris: of
Nate Day: like Like it's so unrealistic.
Chris: far -fetched situation.
Nate Day: Yeah. Yeah, so I can't really speak to...
Chris: Perhaps wildly so.
Nate Day: Uh, really anything else that Colleen Hoover has created, but I was like... When I finished It Ends With Us, I was like, I'm glad that movie's in the world. And like on.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: Peacock or whatever wherever the hell I watched it, you know like I think it's important. The same thing with The the Facebook movie. it wasn't anything revelatory for for me maybe that's because i'm A millennial. A journalist.
Nate Day: All of these things that it was exploring were kind of covered for me already, but I'm like, I want some people to. watch that movie and see what a creep. Mark Zuckerberg is.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: And if so what if it goes down with a spoonful of sugar? right like
Chris: Yep. Yep.
Nate Day: I don't know
Chris: No, agreed, agreed.
Nate Day: why don't we just move on to our ratings and recommendations what did you Rate Verity on... Goodreads.
Chris: Yes. Okay. So we. We somehow managed to get to this pretty quickly anyway. But as I said, I think it probably sounds crazy. Like I definitely, I laughed out loud when I saw.
Chris: Brett's comment on my Goodreads.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Because to an extent I agree with him.
Nate Day: I know. He really took you to the cleaners there.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the man, I mean, I... And we even talked about this when he was on for Minority Report. It is buck wild. I love this man dearly, and we send each other book recommendations constantly.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And. I don't know that I have a single other human in my life. who has a more wildly different taste in books.
Nate Day: That's right. You did mention that you guys don't overlap a lot
Chris: very little very very little And so it's fascinating, absolutely fascinating to me. He really enjoyed It Ends With Us. And less so, Verity. But this was this was a big four stars for me.
Nate Day: Wow.
Chris: And I do think that I need...
Nate Day: Wow.
Chris: I think I need to explain that. Because a question that we approached when discussing how do we do a Colleen Hoover episode was this idea of...
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: We've all seen these the airport vacation beach reads
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: You know, you walk by the stand and there's the... Top 20 shelf where all of the covers look similar.
Nate Day: Yep.
Chris: Who's that lady that has a bajillion of them with numbers in the names?
Nate Day: Oh, gosh, Janet.
Chris: Janet.
Nate Day: Evonovich or something.
Chris: Janet. Yes. Yes. And I've always just, okay, because I am a human who lives my life of having three books with me at all times if I'm traveling.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: but Were I not? I get to the airport. again somehow impossibly. don't have a single book with me. Based solely on Verity and It Ends With Us? If I saw a Hoover on the shelf, which inevitably would be there.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I'd scoop that up knowing I will finish this before my plane lands. I will have a good time. and I will be able to pack it up and leave it in a little free library and never think about it again.
Chris: It won't gnaw at me. I won't be like, man, I got to call Nate.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: I got to call Brett. I got to call Tucker and like digest this, right? And there is a significant value in that.
Nate Day: Yeah. Right. I think so too. Yeah, and
Chris: So big four stars for me.
Nate Day: Yeah. Cool. I gave it. Bear with me here. because I know I just showered. praise on it the whole time. I gave it three stars.
Nate Day: and a heart. you know on letterboxd you get a sort of extra which i love it's one of the many reasons i prefer
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: letterboxd over Goodreads or really any other. app where you can rate things. It gives you those two sort of metrics. You can give it a star rating and you can choose to give it a heart or not. and and You get to decide what that means. For me the heart means that I like it.
Nate Day: regardless of what i rate it because you can give something five stars and be like but i didn't really enjoy it but it was good
Chris: Mmm.
Nate Day: Right?
Chris: Right right, right
Nate Day: so I gave it three stars. Okay. Because kind of like I said earlier, I think like giving it a good review is not exactly what it. Wants?
Chris: but
Nate Day: You know, I don't I don't really know how to explain it, but it's it's trying to be pulpy and
Chris: This film is a masochist.
Nate Day: Can't be. Yeah. it I mean, it kind of is. And there's so much knowingness in the story. like the The author. What is Verity's last name? Verity...
Chris: Translator.
Nate Day: It's something stupid.
Chris: Translator. I don't remember.
Nate Day: It's like Verity Truth or something where I'm like...
Chris: They just call her Verity. Yeah.
Nate Day: What? She's this Colleen Hoover -esque. Author. that is sort of a factory for airport reads, you know? So I'm like. The fact that she's owning up to it.
Nate Day: says that she understands.
Chris: Verity Crawford.
Nate Day: Crawford, that's right, Verity Crawford.
Chris: Cool.
Nate Day: The fact that Colleen Hoover is sort of owning up to it in this book. And, you know, there's rumors that this book was actually written by a ghostwriter, which I think is kind of just. spinning out of the content of the book.
Nate Day: but I'm like, there's real like knowing here. You know what I mean? like I don't know. Do you give do you give that? Five stars, 10 stars, whatever.
Nate Day: so There's some silly things in this. movie like the script is genuinely awful.
Chris: Mm hmm.
Nate Day: It's some of the dumbest lines I've ever... heard human beings say on a screen. And. There are moments where I'm like. I don't know if it works that Anne Hathaway is so good in this because it makes everybody else look...
Nate Day: not good and and some things like that but for the most part they're like
Chris: Of course.
Nate Day: Eh. kind of moot because there is that knowing quality and that You know, it's... it's When you compare yourself to Hitchcock, it's gotta be a friggin' joke.
Nate Day: You know what I mean?
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: so
Chris: You are not doing that in sincerity.
Nate Day: Right, right. So, I mean... Three stars is... tipping the scales positive, you know what I mean? So.
Chris: Yep.
Nate Day: There's that. Who would you... recommend this book to.
Chris: No, I want you to continue that thought line.
Nate Day: Oh.
Chris: So on that. This idea because I think that's brilliant this idea of
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: is it good or not as a piece of media, as a piece of art versus did I like it? Is there anyone you think of that you're like,
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Because of this. You would dig this.
Nate Day: I think I mentioned it. top of the episode that it did remind me a little bit of the housemaid More in content. then
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Day: tone or anything.
Chris: yeah
Nate Day: but I don't know. I mean, if you like these sort of erotic thrillers from the 80s, like I mentioned, or the twisty Hitchcock.
Nate Day: stuff You might dig this. it's It's kind of one of one in some ways so I'm like just Go in with an open mind and and understand that it's trying to be campy and pulpy. and And then it becomes kind of a fun game to be like, oh.
Nate Day: I see what they did there. That's why Dakota Johnson was so bad in that scene is because if she was good, it wouldn't be the same movie.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Right?
Chris: Yes.
Chris: Yes.
Nate Day: Or even things like... Anne Hathaway has a few scenes that are flashbacks. where She is Verity. on hot ones talking about her books and the way her character is styled is like how an author from like 1999 would dress so i'm like what the hell is that but it's just kind of a fun.
Chris: Uh -huh.
Nate Day: Game? You know? to to To wonder why the hell. They chose that. So... Just go in with an open mind. have fun i don't know that there is a specific person or or group of people beyond maybe Colleen Hoover fans.
Chris: Right.
Nate Day: that I would Like be like, oh, you would love this.
Chris: Yeah, yeah Yeah. I wanted you to give your recommendations first because my answer is essentially the same.
Nate Day: What do you think?
Nate Day: Okay.
Chris: I do not off the top of my head know anyone that I would think you got to read this one next.
Nate Day: Good.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: And... Conversely, I think I'd be hard pressed to find someone. That would absolutely hate it and like ask me to stop. recommending books to them for reading it.
Nate Day: That would be a really drastic reaction. To disliking a book. don't recommend books to me anymore.
Chris: Brother, have you met some of the people I read books with? I dunno. i take I take book my recommendations very seriously.
Nate Day: You do have some. characters.
Chris: When someone says, oh, you read a lot of books, give me one. I have a lot of questions. I want i want to... mold this bespoke experience that is my book recommendation to an individual.
Nate Day: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Chris: And I think this would be a safe bet. Whether you like... Psychological thrillers, whether you like...
Chris: Yeah, silly, campy, just... Adult Erotic Fiction Whether you like,
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah, what would we have even considered? House made.
Chris: I don't know. it's got It's got a little something for anyone that enjoys reading books.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: light page count.
Nate Day: Yeah.
Chris: Not tough to work through. I dunno, it's fun. I think anybody that was like going on vacation and said, give me give me something just, you know, to take with me and throw away later. I think this would be a strong wreck.
Nate Day: Verity. Yep. I agree.
Chris: Yeah.
Nate Day: Great. Well... I think that just about does it for our conversation. I need to look up what we're doing next here.
Chris: I've got it here.
Nate Day: Oh, Jane Austen. Next up will be...
Chris: Oh gosh, that's next?
Nate Day: Our Jane Austen super episode. It is. sort of funny to call it a super episode because she only has six
Nate Day: stories, but... But. I think we'll have a lot to talk about.
Chris: hey Hey, the other side of that is... We are covering Everything Jane Austen did.
Nate Day: That's true. Full body. Shouldn't have said that.
Chris: I didn't like that I didn't like that.
Nate Day: Full body of work.
Chris: We're covering Jane Austen's full body next week on Adaptation Gets Cancelled.
Nate Day: Yeah. Hey. yeah Yeah, no kidding. That was a slip of the tongue there. Apologies, everybody. But thank you if if you've made it this far, my God. Thank you for.
Nate Day: listening to our conversation on Colleen Hoover and Verity. And I think the major takeaway is that we just encourage you to check it out.
Chris: Just do stuff.
Nate Day: Yeah, just do stuff. Who cares what everybody else thinks? Or says they think.
Chris: Just do stuff.
Nate Day: Ugh. Yeah, thank you, and and we look forward to next time. Bye -bye.
Chris: Bye.
