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The Challenges of Modern Parenting with Angie Tekriwal
103 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of Doorknob Comments Grant and Fara are joined by Angie Tekriwal, owner of Silver Lining Counseling LLC and counselor specializing in treating adolescents, young adults, and families at her private practice in Montclair, New Jersey. Angie is also a mother and a good friend of Fara. They talk about the impact of media consumption on kids, inside scoop on the mom experience, and a range of other subjects.
We hope you enjoy it!
Resources and Links
Doorknob Comments
https://www.doorknobcomments.com/
Dr. Fara White
Dr. Angie Tekriwal
https://www.angietekriwal.com/
Dr. Grant Brenner
Recommended
Transcript
Impact of Negative Narratives on Parent-Child Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
If you have that narrative in your mind that my kid is going to be a monster, they're a monster, I can't talk to them, thoughts lead to emotions and emotions lead to behavior, you know, you're not going to have that relationship with them.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello, I'm Dr. Farah White. And I'm Dr. Grant Brenner. We're psychiatrists and therapists in private practice in New York. We started this podcast in 2019 to draw attention to a phenomenon called the doorknob comment. Doorknob comments are important things we all say from time to time, just as we're leaving the office, sometimes literally hand on the doorknob. Doorknob comments happen not only during therapy but also in everyday life. The point is that sometimes we aren't sure how to express the deeply meaningful things we're feeling, thinking, and experiencing.
Understanding Doorknob Comments
00:00:47
Speaker
Maybe we're afraid to bring certain things out into the open or are on the fence about wanting to discuss them. Sometimes we know we've got something we're unsure about sharing and are keeping it to ourselves and sometimes we surprise ourselves by what comes out.
00:01:03
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into doorknob comments today. I am your host Farrah White here with Grant Brenner and our very special guest, Angie Techrywall. Angie and I go back quite a bit um right after I finished residency. I was working at a local hospital, seeing patients in crisis, which is like the psychiatric ER r and that is where we met and we became fast friends and have been that way ever since. So thanks for being here today.
Insights from Crisis Psychiatry with Angie Techrywall
00:01:35
Speaker
Thank you for having me. It's great. I'm so glad to be doing this. I remember when you were working at that hospital, Farrah. You loved it so much. I did. good Well, I loved it. We had a good time. It was a good time. it was It was a good time. I think working in crisis, I think you see so much
00:01:57
Speaker
You know, and that's what I even learned in graduate school when I took my crisis counseling class. And I'll never forget, somebody from Trinidad came to speak to us and he was like, that is the best experience because you see everything, right? Like when you have a private practice,
00:02:17
Speaker
I'm not going to really have psychosis walk through my door. you know But working in crisis, I was able to see the unfolding of all of it, of somebody coming in unstable and then stabilizing them. And I believe that now I can pretty much diagnose people in like seconds. And I think that comes from my years of work working in crisis. I mean, I worked in crisis at two hospitals.
00:02:46
Speaker
So in total, I've worked in crisis for nine years. Wow. Wow. Long time for a 25-year-old. Yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
a And actually, maybe we should tell people because not everyone who's listening is in the mental health field.
Teen Suicidal Ideation: School Clearance and Risk Assessment
00:03:04
Speaker
So crisis, also known as CPEP, also known as psychiatric ER, is for people who are having, let's say, agitation or suicidal ideation or something where they are really not safe. right That's where the police or family members or schools will set up for an evaluation.
00:03:27
Speaker
my And the thing is, is that mountainside hospital for the schools, it was like the hub of school clearance. So what is school clearance, right? So let's say you have a child that's in school and he's feeling low, isn't feeling so good about himself. And he goes and sees the guidance counselor. He's talking to the guidance counselor and he starts telling him or her that Yeah, you know, sometimes I struggle with thoughts of not wanting to be here anymore. And because they don't specialize in that, they want to make sure that the child is safe to go home, go to school and obviously not hurt themselves. They send
00:04:17
Speaker
students, kids to crisis, and then they would meet with a crisis clinician, um which would be myself, and I would do an assessment with them to see and evaluate, okay, are they high risk?
00:04:32
Speaker
you know are they low risk? And then also, if they're not set up with services, try to set them up with some kind of outpatient therapy. And of course, there were obviously times that we would have to hospitalize teens. So I never even thought that I would work with the teen population. I always wanted to work with like couples and adults, but at mountainside,
00:05:00
Speaker
I would say there is just this influx of teens coming through the er and crisis and i had parents that. Really had no idea like what is going on so i would be talking to them soothing them soothing the patient So I really kind of wanted to know, like, what's, why are there so many kids coming into crisis? So I just started reading books about Gen Z. And I didn't realize, oh, my God, this is this is like a whole different vibe here with parenting. And at that time, I didn't have a kid of my own.
Parenting Challenges and Media Influence
00:05:40
Speaker
So I also wasn't even aware of a lot of the stuff that was happening. is So yeah, I mean, that's kind of how I fell into what I do. And I think another bonus is, even though I'm 41 years old, I look younger. So the the teens, there's that relatability.
00:06:03
Speaker
there. But i I truly love, love what I do. I think if you asked any one of my parents or clients like say something about Angie, I think they would say she she loves what she does and she's very passionate about it. Well, I'm glad that you and Grant are getting a chance to meet. And I know that part of the background, like we had talked about the movie Inside Out and we did a whole episode on how great we thought it was. And then I think it was really funny. I mean, I want to get into parenting just in general and how bananas it is these days, but, and particularly because I think yesterday was the first day back to school for a lot of families. So there was something that you mentioned about it
00:06:58
Speaker
you know, after seeing how your daughter responded and I don't know if you wanna talk about that. No, I would love to talk about this. So I have always been very cognizant of what kids watch because working at crisis, 13 reasons why came out, right?
00:07:24
Speaker
And I told all the other clinicians, I'm like, guys, we need to watch this. And everyone was like, why? Why do we need to watch it? I was like, because there are going to be teens coming through, talking about this. And we need to know what is going on and like the connection between the two. And what do you know? I will never forget it. I walked into the office.
00:07:51
Speaker
and i can't ah I can't remember who it was, but they were like, and you won't believe it. We have three teens right now and you want to know why they're all here because they watched 13 Reasons Why. Because what Montclair Board of Ed did is they sent a letter with the kids home that says,
00:08:17
Speaker
Please be aware of this new series, 13 Reasons Why. If you allow your child to watch it, watch it with them. What do you think kids are gonna do? They're, oh my God, now I wanna see what it's about. So they all started watching it. And yeah, and it kind of, what was frustrating with 13 Reasons Why is,
00:08:42
Speaker
is one, I didn't, it's not it's not reality, right? Like if somebody, I mean, this is a whole other subject about suicide and all of that, but to, if someone's gonna end their life, they're going to end their life, to pin it and put it on people. And also I think it promoted like, if a kid went through any of the struggles that she did in the show, they thought that this is the solution now.
00:09:13
Speaker
So I've always been very cognizant about what my clients watch, what my own kid watches. So Inside Out 2 comes out, right? And everybody's all excited about it. And I was probably the only parent that was like, I don't know about this. And everybody was like, why? And I'm like, well, first of all, it's rated PG.
00:09:36
Speaker
If you look up the rating PG, that means it's appropriate for seven to 10 year olds, right? But the thing is, Riley, main character, she becomes a teenager in the movie. I thought PG meant pro profoundly gifted. It was for gifted kids.
00:09:57
Speaker
But you're right. Yeah, it's not it's a bit more precocious, right? Right. And the thing is that i all of my daughter's friends were watching it, this and that, and she was like, can I watch it? And I said, okay, I'm going to i'm gonna take you to the movies and we will watch it together because I figured then I can talk to her about it, this and that. I'm not kidding. When I watched it,
00:10:23
Speaker
When riley was having an anxiety attack panic attack. I was feeling anxious like it was it was very anxiety provoking for me but when we left i checked in with my daughter we talked about it how is it can be good and dahdahda and all and it was great.
00:10:41
Speaker
Inside Out 2 is now available on TV. Right now, you have to purchase it. So one night, my daughter begged me to purchase it. So I gave in and I purchased it. And I was like, why not? And that night, it was just weird because after the movie was over, it was pretty late. She was like, oh, you know, my stomach's hurting. And she had an incident once where she vomited in bed. So there's always kind of the sphere now throwing up in bed.
00:11:10
Speaker
So she was like, I feel like I'm going to throw up. And she like ran to the bathroom. And then my husband are like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, you know what? Maybe the milk that she drank wasn't that good, this and that. Fine. So then she ended up getting settled.
Managing Childhood Anxiety and Emotional Well-being
00:11:24
Speaker
But she was complaining of her chest hurting, feeling like she's going to throw up. And she kept like coughing and like almost trying to catch her breath. But again, at this moment, I'm like, oh, like she ate something, whatever.
00:11:40
Speaker
My kid loves to watch things over and over again. I like the next button that kids really do that. They really love to listen and watch things on repeat. It's like. I just love that too. and You're like, oh, can we watch that movie again, please? So the next night, can we watch Inside Out too? So I was like, yeah, I was like, I want to get my money's worth, right? I spent like $40 in this movie. So I'm like, yeah, let's watch it again.
00:12:09
Speaker
should come with a free Xanax or something.
00:12:14
Speaker
So we watch it again, and then the same episode happens again. And then I'm like, holy shit, she's having a panic attack. I couldn't even like believe it. And then I was like, Leila, I want you to take a deep breath.
00:12:34
Speaker
So I'm using tools and skills that I use with my clients on how to manage her anxiety right now. Then afterwards, she even said to me, you know because in the movie, Riley, she like wakes up with all those thoughts in her mind. So Layla was experiencing like the racing thoughts for a second.
00:12:58
Speaker
it it It's been a week let me tell you because she was always a very anxiety like there was always some mild anxiety attachment she's an only child i definitely spoil her way too much so.
00:13:13
Speaker
You know, there's there's always this attachment anxiety stuff with her. But this past week, it's been it's been rough, rough. And she even noticed it, where she was like, I don't think that movie is good for me. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, I 100% Agree you know so we had a conversation about it and i even said to her i was like you know when mommy watched it in the movie theaters. I felt very anxious i have teens that told me when they watched it and that one part where she experiences the panic attack riley. They were feeling anxious and at the end i had two or three teens girls telling me that they were sobbing at the end of the movie. Right so
00:14:00
Speaker
I think as parents, you know we we really need to be aware of what our children are watching because especially if you have a child that's impressionable. So I do want to send a message out there you know for the listeners that Inside Out 2 is going to be free to watch.
00:14:24
Speaker
Just don't overdo it. And you have to have conversations with your kids, if you're an especially young kids, if they're going to be watching that movie. And another big takeaway is that, listen, anxiety is also normal, healthy, and okay, because I do believe Gen Z correlates anxiety with it's bad. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's not bad. It's also good.
00:14:53
Speaker
They also, on average, you know, there's a lot of mental health information on social media, which, you know, it's misleading because you can feel like you have a great depth of knowledge without really understanding it. So, you know, Farron, I talked about Inside Out, too, in some detail in terms of like the model of mind that it presented. And I i didn't love the movie just as a movie. I was a little bored.
00:15:18
Speaker
I thought it was interesting the way they depict the mind and the core emotions but i i think i agree with you it's like if you're saying that it's a bit misleading cuz anxiety is like the enemy and really anxiety is really i think insecurity. And there's this whole thing in the movie where riley has this very nice sense of self.
00:15:38
Speaker
which is how she has emerged out of childhood. She's a good person, treats her friends right, but she's innocent. And when anxiety comes in, anxiety like takes over her sense of self, installs all of these insecure memories in her like pool of memories. And by the end of the movie, like there's this battle over Riley's sense of self.
00:15:59
Speaker
right And in the end, it's like a more mature combination of like the innocent and pure child and the you know the bur the the burgeoning teenager. And the movie does have a little bit of a mean girl's theme, though it's not so clear cut. like The older girls aren't all so mean, but Riley is torn. right She has a moral dilemma between her kid friends and these new girls who she wants to be in the in-group with. right um I'm curious, Farah, you opened your mouth like you were about to say something. Yeah, because I do think that Grant and I had discussed it from like the perspective of how sophisticated it is in some ways. But I guess what was really lost on me right is that this is a child's movie that kids are going to watch over and over.
00:16:50
Speaker
And one concept that always comes up like in my practice that I think is really hard for people to kind of grasp is this idea of seeing something and then hearing it as potentially an instruction. right So when you talk about how you know the town sends home a letter with these kids saying,
00:17:12
Speaker
Oh, we're not sure about this parents like everybody be cautious. What the kids see is an instruction like, oh, I should watch this. I think that's always been true. i'm I'm going to play the Gen X card and say, listen, like no one bothered to even check what we were watching. Like I watched Poltergeist when I was like eight, you know, it's like terrifying. And there was all this psychological stuff and, you know, like We just weren't supervised. I feel like parents don't know what to do nowadays. But one thing that I thought was missing in Inside Out 2, and i'm I'm curious, Angie, if if you could put yourself in in in that chair, what if what if Riley went to see a therapist?
Effective Communication with Children
00:17:56
Speaker
what what would you What do you think it would be like to sit with her? Because there was a there was a point where Farron and I were joking, well, that's Inside Out 3, Riley goes to therapy. But
00:18:06
Speaker
You know, and I also want to ask you later about like the role of the parents in that movie. But if you're Riley's therapist, what are you thinking about? Yeah, I mean, I actually that is such a good point. I didn't even think about Riley seeking out therapy. Um, yeah, I mean, I would have liked to see more like conversation between authority adult figures and also Riley. I think that's such an important piece of it. It's interesting, like, especially with my older kids. I don't know if parents are like,
00:18:43
Speaker
fearful to talk to their kids, but there's just not conversations happening. I actually gave a talk at Montclair Kimberly Academy this past year and I I had to speak on two topics and it was wild. My first topic ended up being a group therapy session for parents. okay Let me tell you, I spend the time, I even got someone to help me with my PowerPoint and this and that. I didn't even use it because parents were just like, How can I get my kid to talk to me? My kid doesn't talk to me. My kid's angry. My kid's this. And there's a huge generation gap. There's such a huge generation gap, you know, and to kind of slide into back to school tips, suggestions. This is my number one suggestion and tip to all my parents.
00:19:47
Speaker
Do not ask your child how school is right after school is over. I kid you not, when I ask my clients, and if I say my kids, I don't have like 100 kids, I call my clients my kids. I i only ah only have one, which I'm very grateful for. But they will tell me, I hate it.
00:20:16
Speaker
when my mom and or dad ask me the minute I come home how school is, they don't want to talk at that moment. They just kept it together for eight hours. They do not want to speak. And again, on a personal level, I remember when I used to pick up my daughter, Layla,
00:20:37
Speaker
She would come into the car and I'd be so excited. you know Like, tell me about your day and this. And she'd be like, yeah, I don't know. OK. I wasn't getting answers. So one day I was like, you know what? Do you just want to listen to music? She's like, yeah, can we? And I was like, OK, great. So I just turned on the music. We just listened to music, carried out the day. And then at night, it was like so amazing to me.
00:21:03
Speaker
We were doing like the whole reading storybook thing and she just starts talking about her day. She was like, mommy, she was like, this happened and that happened. And I was like, oh my God, this is when she wants to talk about her day. So this is what, three years ago? So every night, now we have our nighttime chats.
00:21:28
Speaker
where we talk about today to the point that sometimes I'll check in with the sitter when she comes home and she's like, mommy, I really need to talk to you tonight. And I'm like, you know, we if it's that important, we can chat about it now. She's like, no, no, no, it's okay. We'll talk about it. She's going to wait till her session.
00:21:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so it's like our our mini bedtime session. And the thing is, is that I'm not saying that that has to be for every kid, but there is a point in time during the day that your child will talk to you.
00:22:04
Speaker
It's just probably not going to be right after school is over. That's super cringe. like When you get home and your parents are like, how was your day? And you're like, oh my god, I can't be can't believe it. yeah like My kid has invited me to play like a video game that they like. It's an incredibly involved video game.
00:22:26
Speaker
with, it's got this huge backstory, every character has horrible trauma. And you know it's good because I'm like, okay, this is what is vibing with kids. So if if you can have that kind of relationship, right? For me, I channel my inner teenager in order to try to relate to my kids. I'm kind of like, like I'm and like a old fogey, but like i like I remember being a disenfranchised teenager. And
Generational Differences in Parenting
00:22:53
Speaker
that's helpful though, they they don't completely buy it.
00:22:56
Speaker
And sometimes I tell them if they're not comfortable talking to their parents they can talk to me instead which is just strange but think chuckle. But there is this way where identity shifts a lot and like you don't really know what your kids different identities are and as a crisis counselor right and we understand if you look at people who have had very serious problems, they often do have different states of mind that they may not necessarily be able to access when they're talking to someone else. Sometimes they themselves are disconnected from feeling that way, or sometimes they keep it hidden and are partially aware of it. And it's very, very tricky like to create that kind of safe context. And especially if parents are kind of checked out and you know the parents are
00:23:46
Speaker
Living in a reality which isn't so great they're burned out you know they're they're working in some kind of business that doesn't leave them room for themselves right um they're not in touch with their own sense of self. They don't stand a chance of being able to be there for their kids and then they come kind of you know and i'm a parent so we come looking for you know help.
00:24:07
Speaker
Right, right. And I do think it's interesting, like I'm imagining, I sort of grew up between two generations, but Grant- Between two ferns. ah so for you, you know, like the 90s kind of disaffected reality bites type, you know, upbringing. And now daniel what I guess I'm like right on the cusp, but I don't identify as a but I identify as a moment. Okay, I don't and we're actually not we're pretty close in age. I feel like I because I wasn't allowed like TV growing.
00:24:44
Speaker
ah but that like I feel a little more like Gen X. But even now, like I'm not really on social media. I i think it's important because I don't know how much my parents knew about my life. I don't think very much. or you know And I don't know like why it's so important for me to know about my kids' lives, except for the fact that they can't get away with the things that other generations got away with. If I made a snarky comment, it didn't live on in the internet in perpetuity, right? Well, there's that, but you know like if you caught caught shoplifting in the 80s, it wasn't so bad. If you get caught cho shoplifting now, maybe you won't get into Harvard. Also, we know what we did, and so that scares me.
00:25:38
Speaker
My parents, were they were good parents. you know They were grew up in you know in the 30s and 40s, but they had no idea what we were doing. and But i know I know what kids can do. so I don't want to be a helicopter parent, but I also i also know because my parents told me many years later, they were like they were afraid that I was going to die throughout high school. I was like, and so you just what? like What did you do? Just let you be.
00:26:07
Speaker
You know, and most of us got through it. There were only a couple of kids I went to high school with who died. But if you look at the CDC data just on a sidebar, yeah, rates of violence, suicide, unintentional and accidental deaths, many of which are suicide, accidental overdose, you know, they've all been rising and the pandemic You know, it was like throwing gasoline on a fire as far as social media use goes, um as well as this kind of depersonalization, like developing an identity that is not rooted in physical reality. Like you said earlier before, Angie, like we were outside, a lot of us. I don't know if you were or Farah, you you were out a lot. I was, I was mostly. Yeah. and A lot of sports, which I think was really, really kept me out of trouble.
00:26:53
Speaker
mostly. And I do think that not having, let's say like the full access, you know, if I wanted to talk to a friend, we had to just get on the phone. and I think conference calling was a big thing, but it wasn't like group chats or so snapping each other or discord. And there was this sense that like the only moments that were, let's say, private,
00:27:19
Speaker
tim to me were like, oh, if I was out of the house sometime.
Social Media's Role in Children's Emotional Expression
00:27:24
Speaker
Because mom or dad could always pick up the... My mom was infamous for picking up when I was talking to a friend and I could hear her breathing. yeah you know ah so And to that point, though, Farrah, is that we didn't We only had one phone line, right? So then I would have to wait for it to be free. And then you were cool if you had call waiting. Some people didn't have call waiting, right? So my parents would be like, listen,
00:27:56
Speaker
you can't be on the phone. I'm waiting for an important phone call between this and this hour. We didn't know who this friend was hanging out with and what they were doing, but now it's like you go home and if you're part of this friend group, you sign on to Snapchat and your friend group is together and they're snapping and doing all of this,
00:28:22
Speaker
you're like, why didn't they include me? Right? So everything now and then they build this narrative in their mind, where it maybe it wasn't even intentional, you know, there wasn't anything to it. But then you have a kid that's feeling badly.
00:28:42
Speaker
doesn't have the skills to communicate that. So so where are our middle school kids and teens putting out their emotions? They're making TikTok videos. They're going on Snapchat talking about how depressed they are and how sad they are. And then it becomes this game. because now everybody else sees that then it's like oh my god what's the tea with that group because they were doing this and that and that this is just one small part of it.
00:29:13
Speaker
Well, the kids on average are much more tech savvy, and so they can evade the parents, and I'm pretty tech savvy, and I follow my kid on TikTok, but I also know there's social media channels where I'm i'm not allowed to follow, but to be a parent like requires skills that we don't even have know what they are. yet. right And I think parents in general, probably there's a combination of kind of confusion and not knowing how to get up to speed with the lingo, with the tech. Kids can easily outpace their parents. I mean, I was able to outpace my parents easily and that was without technology. like They did not know what I was doing. And that was like the 80s. And nowadays you can be online. And to your point, like the friend group is like,
00:30:01
Speaker
a pool of like a billion other kids. And that has pros and cons because you can find people who are much better friends if you're an unusual kid, or you can run into trouble. So obviously a lot of the schools are educating kids on predatory behavior and how to be careful. I think parents have a lot more responsibilities, I think is what I'm getting at, but we don't necessarily know where to start.
Navigating Parenting Advice and Styles
00:30:23
Speaker
And we may not feel empowered because I think a lot of times the message from the kids is like, butt out, like you're a grown up.
00:30:31
Speaker
You don't count right right or that kids think we're worried about one thing when really it should be something else and i think that there's also like.
00:30:43
Speaker
just in abundance of parenting advice and ideas. And some of it is really, really good. I mean, these are top people like Lisa Demore, right? It has all of these, yeah, love her. You know, she's one of the most prolific writers of like, teenage girls and how they ah develop. and But there's also a lot of lousy advice out there. And there's also a lot of people who are going to tell you, well, you need to prioritize what school your kid gets into. And here's how to do that. So I feel like there are all of these kind of traps that are set for kids and set for parents. And like our job is to help people navigate around it.
00:31:32
Speaker
There's so much noise though, and who tells you how to separate the weight from the track? Right. There's so much noise. and that And now that just goes back to technology, right? And even as parents, you Instagram, you you have Becky.
00:31:48
Speaker
what's yeah She's like a big one. She has real credentials behind her, but I don't know that it's going to work for her. I will tell you, my parenting does not align with Becky's parenting a lot of the time. I will just say it. I am not one of these gentle,
00:32:08
Speaker
parenting ah parents, this whole entire gentle parenting. I mean, I'm not going to go to the extreme of how my parents parented me. I mean, you're talking about somebody that comes from an Indian background. you know I was their first kid.
00:32:26
Speaker
They grew up in India. They really had no idea what to do with me. And they tried their best. But I i mean, you said that you weren't allowed to watch TV. I was allowed to watch like 30 minutes of TV. I don't even think I was allowed to watch like Dennis the Menace. Like it had to be You know, my mom would go buy those ratings. You know, I remember my dad was watching Dirty Dancing one time and I was like, and it wasn't even that young. It's not like I was seven. I think I was like 10 or something. And I was like- It's a Bollywood classic.
00:33:04
Speaker
And I was like, oh, can I watch? And he's like, no, you cannot watch this, like you know. And and ah so my parents were extremely, extremely strict with me, which which didn't help me because I ended up rebelling a bit in high school, but that's a whole that will be a whole other podcast.
00:33:26
Speaker
that's ah That's behind the paywall. yeah so i yeah so the Gentle parenting. I just can't. I've i i' have tried so hard, but I can't i can't do it.
00:33:42
Speaker
Are you familiar with the four parenting styles model? It's like based on attachment and stuff. so The one you like want to be is authoritative, which is firm and caring and not too much in your kid's head unless they invite you in. right and Then there's three kinds that are not as desirable, like permissive, indulgent, and permissive, neglectful, and then authoritarian.
00:34:07
Speaker
so i think The authoritarian parents run into trouble because they're looking for a quick answers like I'm just going to protect my kid by making rules and then the kid rebels and they go into stealth mode and then it's kind of game over, right?
00:34:21
Speaker
my Right, right. Oh, but not necessarily. I think there are a lot of great ways to raise a kid. And so funny because so much of this, right, and we don't understand this when we're kids, but so much of this is based on the way our parents were parented or what was downloaded to them about how to do it right or what's going to be wrong. And It's funny because i had a lot of rules and a lot of restrictions but my parents were like the ultimate gentle parents like the og no joke like i would call them at two o'clock in the morning and they'd be like oh what's up sweetie no you want to know that's authoritative parenting is like firm and supportive.
00:35:03
Speaker
sort of, but also, and I feel very grateful for this, they, you know, came at it from almost like a research, you know, they had their own stories. They were had me much later in life. I was the third kid. My dad was like 50 when he was having me and my yeah younger brother. So in some ways,
00:35:26
Speaker
It's like, well, can I expect myself and can I expect my patients to do that? No, because I would have never put up with some of that stuff because I need my sleep or I need to, you know, also have a life. So how do we balance, right? What was good and what is repeatable and reproducible and what was not so good either for me or for them and how do we change that? And I think that's what we're all looking to do.
00:35:55
Speaker
Well, I feel like parenting needs to be collaborative, but parents need to be parents. And I don't know if it's clear like in 2024 exactly what it means to be a parent. And Angie, you were saying something when we were chatting that sometimes it feels like parents want teachers and therapists and other adults to like do the parenting. Yeah. i and So either I am like God's gift or it is a phone call of we need to talk so soand so and so fail their test. Like what's going on? Is therapy helping? And I'm just like, once, you know, where eight and I and I told some of my mom's I'm like, Listen, I am not like the third parent here. I am
00:36:46
Speaker
the Therapist right and i see it in the schools like where the expectations of what teacher should be doing and then this like guidance counselors and all of this. It's so mind blowing to me because i'm just like the parents have to also parent do you know you can't just.
00:37:09
Speaker
have the schools raise the kids, you know, you can have the therapist raise the kids. And it's it's just such an interesting dynamic. And a lot of the times I have to teach my like moms, especially just about like the boundaries in a sense. Yeah, but I think that a lot of parents today, because we feel that the stakes are so high,
00:37:37
Speaker
yeah are terrified. And so maybe hearing it from you and being like, okay, this is an authority figure that I trust can kind of like scaffold that. And when you're helping someone be a better parent, you're actually helping the kid too. So Farron, to that point, to be honest with you, I would say, I would say about 40 to 50% With my clients, I'm working more so with the parents.
Practical Parenting Tips and Therapist Roles
00:38:12
Speaker
And because I'm helping the parents, the clients and the kids are feeling and doing better. There's also parent-child therapy, right?
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I have some kids who love to have their parent in the session with them. I have some kids that are like, I do not want my mom to know anything. you know So it's so individualized, right? But really, I don't think there's one kid out there where I've never, like, spoke to the the parent, you know, because you have you have to speak to the parent to help them parent the kid. You know, the biggest thing is remove electronics before bedtime. That is, you know, that is something that I talk to a lot, ah you know, a lot of my parents.
00:39:17
Speaker
But it it may, I mean, yes, I think that that's super important. if it's not possible. And so this is where I think like having a therapist as opposed to getting your information online, yes because I think we all have our own weaknesses, hang-ups, whatever it might be. And so like for me, this the sleep training was like a thing. I couldn't do it. I was a wreck every time. and
00:39:50
Speaker
I felt like because of my training and because of things were relative, you know, I was lucky in some some ways that that was something that I should have been able to do.
00:40:05
Speaker
And I couldn't the same way that I would tell a parent, Hey, take your kid's phone out of their own wealth. That's going to lead to a total meltdown for everyone. And it's not possible. Like what's the plan B and that's where I think it comes in handy to actually have someone to talk to. And you know what, Farrah, I will also say that I tell all my moms to follow their mom instinct.
00:40:32
Speaker
I tell them that all the time. I'm like, you are the mom. What is your instinct? to Forget about what I'm saying. Forget about what the doctor's saying, the specialist. What is your mom instinct saying right now? And I tell them, follow that.
00:40:49
Speaker
and you're absolutely right like are there times that a parent will come to me and be like listen i'm not removing the cell phones you don't understand this and that i would never say like okay see you later you know find somebody else i i work with them on a plan b Sue, to your point, there's not one person out there, right? I think that's the thing. I think as parents, you know it's great to read a parenting book. i There's a handful of parenting books that I would say 50% of the information I believe is solid, but you have to throw out a lot of this stuff too.
00:41:30
Speaker
You know so it's really about picking and choosing what works for you culturally you know you're talking about sleep training in the Indian culture like even when you're an adult boy girl mom dad it's very common for the whole family to sleep together.
00:41:47
Speaker
My kid will probably hate me that I'm saying this if she hears this like when she's a teenager. But till this day, I mean, Layla sleeps in our bed and it's it's a cult. it's We wouldn't have it any other way. There's so many other moving pieces to it. it's Listen, it's not easy raising a kid in today's generation. You know, I really truly do believe it takes a village.
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, and there is no village anymore often. The village is what people create. What's that? i Oh, sorry. I said the village is really what people create for them themselves. But it's not baked in. like We don't live in villages. We live in cities, and it's sometimes kind of weird to to talk to people nowadays. right The world is super complex. it's it's Really, there's a lot going on, and it's multicultural, like like you're saying, Angie. like you know You'll hear an expert say, you absolutely just leave your kid alone. My my my family has an Asian parent, and so we're much more comfortable kind of with co-sleeping. I never thought it was the end of the world. um so advice is you know Advice is likely to be conflicting.
Children's Self-Raising and Emotional Management
00:43:03
Speaker
what what i What I think, and I wonder about the role of the dad, right because i'm you know I'm a dad. and We're talking about moms. We've been neglecting you.
00:43:12
Speaker
yeah I don't feel neglected, but I think it's um yeah it's interesting because this has always been a thing is kind of the stereotypical role of the gender differences. There's some truth to it. There's this idea of kind of the the warmer dad figure. But what i was what I was going to say, though, is I think for a lot of kids, there's a couple of things. One is a lot of kids are raising themselves, right? We're in a Lord of the Flies kind of situation where kids are basically their their peer group which is massive because it's online often. That's where they're getting their info. That's how they're getting raised. so I think do think therapists play a different kind of role and we have to be really you know like careful because that that can kind of be a problem if therapists are too narcissistic or controlling or whatever. We have to stay sort of in the right type of role as it moves. and I had a thought about Inside Out 2 because I wanted to ask about the parents in Inside Out 2 and how does that kind of fit in?
00:44:09
Speaker
I feel like, so yeah, I think that when I was watching it, I was actually a little angry with parents because I was like, why aren't they, like, she's struggling. Like, why, why aren't they seeing this? Why aren't they talking to her?
00:44:26
Speaker
Well, the whole thing is compressed, right? Her puberty light goes off and then she's like, quote unquote, crazy with her mom the next morning, like emotionally all over the map. And then her mom is taken aback. And then that coach comes in and says, hey, girls, like I'm inviting you to this hockey camp tomorrow. And then the parents are basically just out of the picture.
00:44:46
Speaker
But what one thing that I wish they would have showed because I never like and I don't know how you guys felt as kids as kids I don't think I felt really like Considered top of mind like people cared what I was doing. I've come from came from this big family But as a parent I feel like that's all I talk about like with with my husband. I'm like, I don't even know it but like anything. It just feels like that is the whole focus. And so I wish there had been a scene where the parents were wondering like, oh, is she okay? We don't know because I truly think that a lot of kids don't understand how and how hard their parents are trying.
00:45:37
Speaker
No, that's huge. That's huge. And I fair i will tell you that i I remind my kids that all the time because I hear that a lot, you know? And I tell my kids, I'm like, do you realize that every second of our day we are thinking about you?
00:45:59
Speaker
You know, it is pretty, it's pretty crazy, the perception that kids have, you know, where, oh, yeah, like my parent, like, she doesn't care. And I'm like,
00:46:11
Speaker
where, it like show me the proof, like where is your proof, right? And you know, Graham, you're actually talking about mind states, um the different types of mind states. And that's actually something that I work with my kids is recognizing, okay, are we in an emotional mind state right now? Because when we're in an all emotional mind state, that means we're just running off emotions. And at times that's necessary, like,
00:46:38
Speaker
A family member, you just found out someone passed away. You're at a concert. You're at a you know football game. That's fine. Then you have reason in mind state, which is very logical. It's only based on facts. But we want to try to be in a wise mind state, which is 50% emotion and 50% facts. So another tip to my parents.
00:47:03
Speaker
When you are both in an emotional mind state, it means you guys are going back and forth and fighting. Disengage. Time out. Go to your separate corners because this is the time that parents will start trying to rationalize with their child. But the thing is that the child is in an emotional mind state and they can't hear the rationalizing, right? So what happens? They fight. The parents trying to get through to them. The kid doesn't want to hear it. The parent gets frustrated. Forget it. I can't talk to you. It's impossible to talk to you. Slowly and gradually, they keep continuing this. And then the parents stop trying to talk to their kids.
00:47:52
Speaker
So it's you know that's my biggest thing with my parents. I'm like, listen, when you see your kid in an emotional mind state, they're just running off emotions. This is not the time to go in and to try to rationalize with them or talk to them, let them be. Then what I do with the kids is when we are in an emotional mind state, what are the healthy things that we do during that time?
00:48:20
Speaker
right? We're not going to self-harm. We're going to either call a friend, listen to music, do other things to get us into a wise mind state. Because we have to remember the front, their frontal lobe is not fully developed, the impulse control center, right? yeah So kids are very I want this, and I'm going to act on it. The thinking part, that's almost like where my job comes in, where I help the The psychopaths would call that id, the desires. And adults maybe suppress that too much sometimes. I think the context is important. One one of the books I co-authored is called Relationship Sanity. It's really geared toward you know couples. But we have a communication process called the 40-20-40, which is a form of nonviolent communication.
00:49:12
Speaker
And we practice, you know, listening, compassionate listening and speaking from the heart rather than as you're sort of describing is is creating this like um litigation where you're trying to overpower or convince or persuade and missing each other and empathetically.
Positive Teenage Interactions and Privacy Concerns
00:49:30
Speaker
And a lot of times there's bias toward teenagers by adults.
00:49:35
Speaker
And I try to catch myself. That's why I try to remember that I'm still a teenager on the inside in a way. And I remember what it was like. Okay, so your frontal cortex is in fully formed, but that doesn't mean your experiences aren't valid, or you're having puberty. So it's not like, oh, you're being emotional, it's puberty. It's like, you're struggling to understand yourself. And I'm i'm with you, you know, in a way that can work without being intrusive.
00:50:02
Speaker
Right. Right. and That's huge. that There was actually an exercise that was done where it was a group of parents and the presenter asked, when you think of teenager, what do you think? And every single parent said something negative. There wasn't one person that said something positive, but I was in the group And it was interesting for me because I really enjoy my teens. Like I really, really enjoy them. So as they're saying that they're moody and this and that, I'm thinking like,
00:50:38
Speaker
They're funny, you know, I learned from them. And if you have that narrative in your mind that my kid is going to be a monster, they're a monster, I can't talk to them, thoughts lead to emotions and emotions lead to behavior, you know, you're not going to have that relationship with them.
00:50:58
Speaker
You're also projecting stuff onto them that they'll identify with. It's like if you keep accusing someone of stealing, eventually they'll be like, fine, I'm going to steal stuff. Farrah, what do you think? I know we're coming up on a- I'm thinking of this thing that came up on this whatever mommies and daddies, this group around someone sent it to me. It was like these emojis that you need to know that your kids are using.
00:51:23
Speaker
okay it's like ah like Is this like a mom's group? that Yeah, someone's like sounding you a bar. I don't think dads are doing this. I mean, I share stuff like that with my wife. but Yeah, moms definitely do that. And so I open up i open it up. And basically,
00:51:39
Speaker
It's just like, this means one sex organ. This means the other sex organ. This means intercourse, fooling around. This means masturbation. And this is from like a pretty sophisticated mom's group. And I was kind of thinking like,
00:51:55
Speaker
Oh, that's what you guys are worried about. But teenagers are exploring the most natural thing that they should be exploring. I thought it was going to be like the things that I really worry about, like poor mental health or using substances or, if you know, like all this, like malign. Our culture is still really hung up on sexuality and kids are much more sexually fluid nowadays. I think what strikes me about this is basically kids are talking in code.
00:52:26
Speaker
So we can't understand them right but also what are what just what has to be hidden and what can be out in the open and kind of joked about and like.
00:52:37
Speaker
There's a good Wikipedia page on Gen Z slang. But I i used to always say, like when my kids were little, because I had trouble setting limits, that I could only do it. And I'd be like, and this is a safety issue. right like It would be like, I would grab them so they wouldn't run into the street, because that was like a safety issue. So it was OK. So for me, I see things in in this very black and white way. Yeah.
00:53:03
Speaker
which is maybe not good, but I realized that there are all different levels of things that parents worry about and things that parents have to set limits around. But also like what are we messaging to the kids like if they have to talk and code about masturbation like that doesn't yeah Well, some of it is just privacy. There's also the parents, some of them well-intentioned who got into kids' business too much. I also think if you're trying to keep the world safe, a lot of teenagers and young adults nowadays, they're like, sorry, you dropped the ball. and I think I hear this from a lot of teenagers nowadays. They're just like, who are you to tell us how to run the world?
00:53:41
Speaker
like you're you guys have not proven competence in running the world. So grownups, I think in a very broad generational way may may have lost credibility. You look at politics, you look at climate anxiety. um So if you try to tell your kid what's safe and what's not safe, I think there is a little bit of this kind of 1960s type, you know you're the man and you don't know what you're talking about. Right.
00:54:09
Speaker
What do you think, Angie? Final word for our guest? I do want to add one other piece that when you go out with your kid, don't talk about school. Don't talk about the chores that they didn't do, their grades, college. This is why kids don't want to hang out with you. Right. And I know this because again,
00:54:39
Speaker
This is what my kids tell me. Well, every time I'm in the car with my mom, she will bring up this. So now I just put my AirPods in and i I'm just in my own little world. you know Get to know your kid. Listen, your kid is a middle school, high school. They're becoming their own human being. It's like meeting someone new for the first time.
00:55:03
Speaker
you're not gonna go in and start saying like oh tell me what you do for work and how are you doing like get to know your kid you know ask them about. what would their dream be? Or just like, if you're eating food with them, how is the food? Or is there ever food like that you always wanted to try and never tried? Like, I feel like it's just almost, it's the it's the simple and the basic stuff. But i I think because we live in such a achievement culture right now,
00:55:36
Speaker
parents are so fixated on, are they in enough activities? Are they doing what they need to do for college? dadda Because you talk to another parent. First thing I hear is, Oh, what is Layla doing during the fall? Literally, like two things. Layla's friends, they are scheduled from seven days a week, you know, and I and I tell my parents, I'm like, don't over schedule.
Conclusion and Closing Remarks
00:56:04
Speaker
your kid, it's not necessary. Kids need play. Yeah, they need play and they want you. ah they want they yeah like Kids also want their parents. and And yes, listen, I i i know it's tough. you know That's why I believe quality over quantity. And that's something else I tell my parents. I'm like, don't get fixated on the fact that you come home late at night.
00:56:34
Speaker
Just because you're not cooking dinner and in the house, if you spend 30 minutes of solid eye contact time, that means more than you being home with them all day. So quality versus quantity. And I'm not saying don't talk to your kids about school and grades and all of that, but don't do it like on your time when you're trying to build and ah ah a relationship or a bond with them.
00:57:04
Speaker
This is great advice. And I'm so glad we heard this talk. I feel like... I feel like we could have talked about this for hours. No, I'm more optimistic, I guess, about sort of the year ahead, which is which is a good thing. But um where can people find you? like what you know If they want to either learn more or work with you, are you online? What's the Yeah. So I am online. Um, I do have my website and I'm also in psychology today.com nice and they can email me and call me. I'm definitely reachable. Okay.
00:57:45
Speaker
It's my pleasure meeting you and talking with you. yeah There's definitely way more to say. I have a lot of thoughts that came up on this. Yeah, um yeah i can I can tell your your gears are spinning too. um If any of our listeners have any questions or thoughts, please feel free to reach out to us at hello at doorknobcomments.com. And you can visit us at doorknobcomments.com. And we would love to hear from you, especially about what it's like to be a parent.
00:58:14
Speaker
Thank you so much guys for having me. I but i could talk about this all day. Remember, the Doorknob Comments podcast is not medical advice. If you may be in need of professional assistance, please seek consultation without delay.