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TW: Miscarriages & Loss #21 Miscarriages - some common reasons so many couples experience them
30 Plays2 months ago
The Bean Talk - Episode 21: Miscarriages - some common reasons so many couples experience them
This week, Riannon and Jeremy open up a heartfelt conversation around miscarriage and loss. From early miscarriage to stillbirth, they share their own experience with losing their daughter Winnie, the statistics around loss, and why this topic needs to be spoken about more openly and compassionately.
They discuss why miscarriage happens, what the medical system often overlooks, and how naturopathy can help investigate the root cause of repeated loss. You will learn about common contributing factors from hormone imbalances and nutrient deficiencies to thyroid and immune issues, as well as the types of testing and support available for anyone on their fertility journey.
Whether you are grieving a loss, supporting someone who is, or navigating preconception yourself, this episode is a warm and informative resource to help you feel seen, supported and empowered.
Mentioned in the episode:
Pink Elephant Support Network – a beautiful resource for anyone navigating miscarriage and loss. Find them on Instagram: @pinkelephantssupport
Connect with Riannon and Jeremy on Instagram @mungbean_health or visit mungbeanhealth.com for expert support.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Bean Talk
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to The Bean Talk with me, Rhiannon, your fertility fairy godmother, joined by my trusted partner in life and in the mission of Mungbean Health, Jeremy. Here at Mungbean Health, we're on a mission to unlock the secrets of fertility and natural wellbeing episode at a time.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Being Talk with Rhiannon and Jeremy. We have been busy, so we actually haven't had so much of a chance of getting on each week like we normally do, but lucky we had already been really disciplined in getting a couple done before.
00:00:33
Speaker
yeah But it's nice to be back. Yeah, it is good. We have a pretty heavy podcast to talk about today and something that we want to Bring Awareness 2, which we shall talk about after we get our big beans and little beans out of the way. But, yeah, it's a little bit more of a heavier one today.
00:00:51
Speaker
So let's go our big beans and little beans.
Exploring Food Services: Dimples and Activate Foods
00:00:54
Speaker
I'm going to go with my little bean would be definitely being more strict in the kitchen, I suppose. i don't know, strict, just being in the kitchen more.
00:01:04
Speaker
Cooking more. Home-cooked meals has been amazing, and I've been using a lot of the Dimples food, which if you follow us on Instagram, you would know how amazing dimples is and i'm sorry for everyone else that's around australia or outside of australia that can't get access to them but they are an amazing food to door a farm to door they're a food service farm to door service where they literally deliver good food like meats poultry fruits and vegetables or to your door and i love that because if you have children
00:01:37
Speaker
And you have been food shopping with them, you'll know how horrible that is. Yeah. And they want to just grab all the naughty treats and stuff. And that you're going to probably bribe them with something to get around the shops.
00:01:48
Speaker
But trying to do that and then, ah yeah, I just feel sorry for people that can't get deliveries happening because trying to have your kid and then even just the car, the logistics of getting yourself with a trolley to the car, like the kid in, all the bags in, and then take, like it's just the whole thing. Yeah.
00:02:03
Speaker
So yeah, I've definitely been like utilizing a lot of that beautiful food and cooking beautiful home cooked meals, which when you're as busy as we are, it's actually harder than you think. You really have to be prepared.
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah. and Lunches with the Activate as well. Yes. And yes, absolutely. Making it super easy. We've been using the Activate foods again. not sure how, I think they go Newcastle down to,
00:02:27
Speaker
Wollongong, but check them out. They are an easy, fresh food service. They have frozen as well. Their fresh foods, though, are so good. It's like a meal in a container. What would you call that? Like a pre-packed meal? Ready meal.
00:02:41
Speaker
And they taste great. So if you've ever been in the gym, which actually taking you back, Jeremy and I used to be used to go to the gym every single day before kids even when i was pregnant with evie we were still going we used to be very big in like the gym and fitness world as in it was big to us like it was a big part of our lives and if you've tried any of those ready meals that are high in protein i'm not going to name any other names but you would know that are around that have been around for a long time and they're usually frozen And then you heat them up in the microwave and they just taste like, the so they all start tasting the same because they usually use the same spices. And they're gross and they're all watery and just not very nice. Anyway, the Activate Foods is totally different because they're made fresh foods. Like their chicken breast is so moist. yeah
00:03:25
Speaker
Jeremy thought it was thigh. Chicken thigh. So that's not breast because it wasn't dry it was so moist but and they're changing as well I've noticed like some weeks they'll have certain meals that they won't have the next but they'll have new ones in its place which is good you've got to keep it exciting yeah I'm not the type of gal to eat the same thing every day that's why I found the fitness side of things hard because they are happy to eat chicken and broccoli and rice every day but obviously not great for your from a naturopathic perspective, but early days in the naturopathy studying, everybody goes through ah vegan or vegetarian one. Like they get into the fitness world. It's like part of the process or there's a word for that.
00:04:07
Speaker
Anyway, long-winded answer there, but they're easy.
Family Adventures and Personal Organization
00:04:10
Speaker
Again, delivered to your door. There is a place you can pick them up on the coast, but they are delivered to your door on a Monday, which is so good because then we have lunches for the rest of the week.
00:04:18
Speaker
Don't have to think about I've got so much else on, we've got it so much else on our plate. So they're great. And I'd say big bean for me would be going on like a family hike. don't if you can call it like a real hike because we were able to get the pram up there.
00:04:32
Speaker
but there's a beautiful walk that's near us called Crackneck, the name. It's not great, but it's a beautiful lookout when you get there. If you're falling off, you're definitely cracking your neck. like You're in trouble, but there's even like a spot for the hang gliders and that, yeah the gliders that go up there and jump off, but you can do a full bush walk either side and there's beach and everything, but we got Jeremy actually pushed the kids on the pram. So we've got the The pram, the Bugaboo Donkey, which if you are in need of a new pram, it's definitely worth the investment.
00:05:05
Speaker
I wish I got it with Evie. And you can sit the two kids in the front and one on the skateboard at the back. And it's so good because they can all be on there. Usually no one's whinging. And we did on and off for a bit. And they'd run and chase We ran for a bit of it, which was pretty good. was good getting us all running. It was good. But Jeremy, yeah, pushed it up most of the hill, which was so good. And then, yeah, they felt Tati and Romy fell Yeah,
00:05:28
Speaker
I like that. Yeah. Teddy was close anyway. It was it was good, more of that in nature. My big bean would be making a little checklist for the day and then just tick him off as you go. It can be anything, it's just drinking more water.
00:05:41
Speaker
doing the task going to do it and then you take them off and you get that little good feeling and a win's a win so you just take them when you can and i think that's pretty good and about yeah fulfilling like a little bit of fulfillment each day so good i actually know you've said that i just remembered i've got this health journal by steph pace And it is like that. It's like keeping you accountable.
00:06:04
Speaker
I've written out in my actual diary, but I haven't actually used the health journal yet, but it's got look different months in there and goals. So good. You could absolutely use that to keep you accountable. I like it Love a checklist. There's nothing quite like ticking it off, is there?
00:06:22
Speaker
Even in your notes, if you're not writing, like your notes, especially if you're an iPhone user, you can have a checklist where it's got oh cool dots, circles, and just tick them when they're done. Yeah, love that. Yeah, that's very good. So good. So it depends if you like pen to paper.
00:06:36
Speaker
And the little bean for me would be drinking more water. Oh, yeah, sorry, missed your little bean. Yeah, the hydration, hydromumas and water. yeah. Sometimes I feel thirsty, get a glass of water and scar one, sip one. Yeah, actually, get it in.
00:06:51
Speaker
So important for everything. Yes.
Sensitive Topics: Miscarriage Awareness and Personal Stories
00:06:53
Speaker
So let's talk a little bit more about what we want to talk about in this topic, which is miscarriage. Now, there is a look in the health world and in the loss world. Not everyone wants to have a disclaimer on things when they're talking about loss, because I totally understand both sides of it where they don't feel like they should have to have a trigger warning for people who haven't experienced loss. But for me, I'm looking at it from a perspective of people who have had loss.
00:07:21
Speaker
that maybe just aren't in the best state and don't want to hear about other people's stories or education or or anything. They just want to essentially block it out. And that is their prerogative. Whatever they want to do you know, you have to respect that. So I feel like having a trigger warning in place is good just to allow, I guess, a lot of our clients have experienced loss. Like it's very common.
00:07:42
Speaker
whether that's early miscarriage, chemical pregnancy, or later miscarriage, or stillborn, or infant loss, or whatever that looks like for you. Obviously, we've had our own journey with stillbirth, losing our little Winnie. So I can totally see both sides of things. But I guess in the loss world as well, people don't want to protect people who haven't been through loss.
00:08:03
Speaker
And they don't think that they should have to put a trigger warning when it's their reality. yeah So they're like, why do I have to protect you from my reality thing? Which again, everybody is so different and everybody deals with things differently. So just going to put this in place as a bit of a letting you know, that's what we're going to be chatting about.
00:08:21
Speaker
If it is too much for you or now's not the right time, please listen to one of our other episodes. You don't have to listen to this one and you can always come back if you do choose to, but if you want to chat about it, then listen on. I guess working in the fertility field is the most rewarding field personally, I feel, to work in, but at times it can be also so challenging.
00:08:43
Speaker
It's a huge challenging part of our work, which me and all of our naturopaths experience, which is enjoying the excitement of helping a couple fall pregnant, whether it's their first baby or their second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, whatever. It's always exciting.
00:09:00
Speaker
But With that comes loss as well, unfortunately. And whether that's when someone first comes to see us and they're like, hey, I've experienced seven miscarriages and they're a very complex case and they're like, I really need help. I don't know what else to do.
00:09:15
Speaker
And then us supporting them to get pregnant. There's nothing else quite like it. Even a surprise pregnancy when some of our clients are like, hey, surprise, I'm pregnant. That's even still just gives me shivers because it's such a beautiful thing for a family to be able to experience. And I guess what mung bean is all about, really.
00:09:34
Speaker
Obviously, outside of that, like women's health and hormones and helping women feel and couples and men and whatever you look like. Yeah, children, whatever being you are, helping them to feel their best. But yeah, it's obviously a huge part of what we do But there are very big statistics on loss as well.
00:09:52
Speaker
So one in four pregnancies ends in loss before 20 weeks. 20 weeks is a marker where anything before 20 weeks, it's a miscarriage. It can be an early miscarriage or a late miscarriage, or as I said, a chemical pregnancy, which is very early on.
00:10:09
Speaker
We can have missed miscarriages where it's not picked up until later. But after the 20 week mark is when it is classified as a stillbirth. And this is from learning this from experience that you need to have a birth certificate and a death certificate?
00:10:25
Speaker
Yes. Or did we just get a death certificate? can't remember. Anyway, you get a certificate. I think it's a death. at least I think. It's just the one, I think, and it says on it that they died. ah I don't think it's a legitimate birth certificate. It's just the one from the hospital and then you certificate. got the proper. Yes, yeah.
00:10:42
Speaker
I'm pretty sure it's just the one certificate, yeah whereas I guess if you had child loss, you'd have a birth certificate and then you'd have a death certificate. But because... They were born sleeping. you just have the one certificate that says their name and when they were born and unfortunately when you lost them or when they became a little angel.
00:10:59
Speaker
Then you have to have a funeral or a It doesn't have to be a full funeral, but a ceremony. Yeah, like you have to have them cremated or buried. Like you have to do something with their little body. Yes, exactly. That is the marker. And for us with Winnie, we were actually right on. So my waters broke and I went into hospital in 19 and 6.
00:11:23
Speaker
And then we went in and I didn't have her until 22 or 23. So just over because it was five days later. Yeah, anyway, so for me, although that brought with it more trauma of having to pick out your baby's coffin, which is horrible, I'm also happy that we were able to give her that ceremony. Yeah, for sure.
00:11:46
Speaker
Oh my gosh, it's so sad still.
Open Dialogue and Miscarriage Support
00:11:49
Speaker
so we, like loss is experienced so commonly. And I feel like us continuing to share our story is a huge part of shaping the future in the way of loss. I feel like in the past, especially let's say 50, 60, 70 years ago, it was hushed.
00:12:10
Speaker
Like you wouldn't have spoken about it. The husbands wouldn't have even wanted to know about it It's like it happened and don't ever bring it up a again sort of thing. Whereas for us, we want to acknowledge our babies, even though they're not here with us and we want to share. And there are host still communities that aren't I guess, open to talking about it. And everyone, as I said, everyone can do whatever they like. It's a world where we have free choice.
00:12:32
Speaker
But I definitely think that by sharing our story, and I know a lot of other lost mamas that share their story, it is like recalibrating that stigma around it.
00:12:43
Speaker
but to Positive changes. So it's obviously a very devastating statistic situation. One in four, it's very common if there's four people in a room, one of you are going to experience a a miscarriage, which is just crazy.
00:12:57
Speaker
But I feel like women feel often very alone in those experiences as well. Most women don't even announce that they're pregnant until after the 12 weeks, usually about that 13 week mark, because of the risk of miscarriage and how common it is so that then they can just not have to explain to everyone what happened.
00:13:15
Speaker
Whereas I am finding now there are a lot more women that are coming out sharing that they are pregnant before the 12-week mark before. And just I guess it also allows you not to suffer in silence if that first trimester is absolutely hell for you because morning sickness, HG, even just like slight nausea all the time can be a mental load.
00:13:41
Speaker
It can be huge, just struggling with that. And then also if you have had loss before, it's nice to be able to share with your friends and family that you are expecting again so that then you're not worrying in that anxious mess alone.
00:13:54
Speaker
I feel like that's also another beautiful part of this journey. work if we can even call it work it's such a beautiful space to be in is that I love that at Mungbin we are often the first people to find out when our clients are pregnant a lot of the time they have to tell us because they want to make sure that what they're taking is safe and saving to continue with the dosage and everything but it's also ah want for a lot of people so I don't I don't need to tell you this but I wanted to share it with someone
00:14:25
Speaker
So they'll, yeah, just want to share with us because they want to share with someone, which we're always open and happy to chat about. And we love to share that excitement as well. And yeah, I think as time continues to go on, we will be sharing earlier pregnancies more often just in the public, which is nice.
00:14:41
Speaker
But another heartbreaking statistic is that over 50% of miscarriages, couples won't actually find out the cause of their loss. So why it's happening. Whereas that is in the medical world, as naturopaths, it's our responsibility and our duty of care to investigate.
00:14:59
Speaker
There's still some very minimal cases that you can't find out what's going on. And I personally think that is down to the limit of testing and new issues that are always arising, like more genetic issues that maybe isn't found yet, but it's very minimal.
00:15:15
Speaker
Whereas in the medical world, there's so many things that we can find that they just rule out, which could be something like, your vitamin D is really crucially low or your iron's really low and it's okay, that absolutely could be standing in the way.
00:15:28
Speaker
Or if we're just testing the woman and not testing the husband or the partner or whatever, the boyfriend or whatever, it's... then 50%, if not more, chance that it could be the sperm.
00:15:42
Speaker
yeah And I think, again, with time, it is becoming more and more known how important that the man's sperm health is and how that can be affecting miscarriage or that could be affecting stillbirth or whatever it might be or not even being able to fall pregnant. But, yeah, definitely our duty to continue to investigate, educate and support our clients' fertility needs in hopes of reducing any of those miscarriages, minimizing as much as we can and encouraging a healthy and successful pregnancy all the way through to a beautiful birth and a happy postpartum as well.
00:16:16
Speaker
So some causes of miscarriages that are quite common are chromosomal abnormalities. That is a very big one. I'm sorry, you may be able to hear children in the background. They are sounding very loud.
00:16:30
Speaker
They are downstairs, but sounding real loud. Uterine abnormalities as well is a big one. Blood clotting disorders, autoimmune disorders. It's a big one.
00:16:40
Speaker
Dysregulated immune system, things like natural killer cells, which we do often check with our clients. That can be a big one for miscarriage and and later loss as well.
00:16:51
Speaker
Hormonal imbalances and maternal age can play a role there as well. Causes that we see in clinic. that may not be considered by the more medical side of things. Low progesterone, they do usually test. But again, we're looking at optimal levels. Their reference ranges are huge. So they may miss something by not actually testing at the right time.
00:17:15
Speaker
I've had so many clients that will be not tested when they're meant to be tested after ovulation. They will actually be tested the first start of the cycle, which it's going to appear low because they haven't ovulated yet.
00:17:27
Speaker
So we really want to make sure we're doing that right at the right time. it could be like luteal phase defects. Again, low progesterone plays a role there. Uterine scar tissue could be an issue if that is from previous terminations, trauma.
00:17:43
Speaker
It could be from endo, anything like that causing that scar tissue there. Endometriosis and that could be silent endometriosis as well, which is not necessarily showing symptomatically. It's just hanging around in the uterus or in the background.
00:17:59
Speaker
It's not causing real heavy flooding periods. It's not causing issues of really painful periods. It's not causing any of those major issues that lead to investigation. It's like you're just not falling pregnant.
00:18:14
Speaker
PCOS is another one, polycystic ovarian syndrome or PCO as they often call it now. Thyroid conditions could be hyper or hypo, so it could be really overactive or underactive thyroid, both will play a role.
00:18:29
Speaker
Uterine fibroids is a big one, especially I find that in our older population that's wanting to have a baby. Over 30, things start to decline, which still feels very young. And there's so much that we can do, but over 30, when things decline, 35, and then over 40, I'm pretty sure over 40,
00:18:46
Speaker
Is it over 40-day classes of theatric pregnancy? Might even be 35. It's ridiculous. But from over 35, they're really starting to consider maternal age as playing a role there because you were born with your eggs. It's a lot of years for those eggs to be in there. And Maybe if you didn't live such a healthy life or you didn't have the education or access to the things that you do now, that can all honestly be playing a major role in your fertility, which there's lots we can do to improve that as well.
00:19:17
Speaker
Testing and seeing what's going on first.
Naturopathic Fertility Care
00:19:19
Speaker
Weakened cervical tissue. We've got lifestyle factors like diet, smoking and age, as I said, high BMI or carrying a lot of weight.
00:19:30
Speaker
especially that adipose tissue, like around the midsexual ho sexualual the midsection. Insulin resistance and diabetes can play a role. Nutritional deficiencies like folate, vitamin B12, low iron, low vitamin D, low omega-3, zinc, low vitamin E, iodine as well.
00:19:51
Speaker
Methylation issues like our MTHFR snap or non-genetic issues as well. high chemical or heavy metal or alcohol exposure can all play a role or even high cellular oxidation, which we are looking at all of these essentially.
00:20:09
Speaker
With so many potential factors, it can feel so daunting. You can be like, oh my God, like I've had three losses. I need to do something about this, but I don't know where to start. I guess that's definitely where we come in. We look at what is potentially going on and what is relevant for you. So that is why it's so important and why we spend an hour in the initial taking your case so we can find out exactly what's going on for you. And that's where we'll go, okay, let's refer for this testing.
00:20:36
Speaker
It's no cookie cutter approach. It's not one shoe fits all. Everybody's different and individualized. That's why we take time. You will never get an hour appointment with a GP where they will talk to you about your entire health and the systems and past history and all the things. So that is where we do definitely take more of a, take that into consideration as well.
00:20:56
Speaker
So we definitely, if you're on your fertility journey, we definitely recommend to always work alongside a naturopath or a health practitioner so we can facilitate your preconception and pregnancy journey.
00:21:07
Speaker
And what are some things that I guess you can do to get started would always be obviously booking a naturopathic appointment, your initial, at least if you're already a client of ours or you have been in the past for maybe something else, definitely reaching out again so we can get you started on a preconception plan.
00:21:24
Speaker
Number one is definitely investigate. Now, I know we sound like a broken record, but you need to find out so you can rule out what's going to help and support you and what's not going to. We would definitely be looking at or something that we look at for our clients often for different cases, but this is obviously quite common. It's like a sex and stress profile, looking at estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, stress hormones like cortisol and DHEAS as well.
00:21:50
Speaker
Thyroid testing, full bloods. as well, including iron, B12, folate, vitamin D, testing out MTHFR. looking at gut microbiome mapping, it's so good and so big at the moment.
00:22:03
Speaker
And also vaginal microbiome mapping. It could be that the vaginal microbiome is not strong enough. It could be allowing infections and things in. And then it's obviously not a nice environment for the sperm to come in fertilize the egg.
00:22:16
Speaker
It could also be that your vaginal microbiome isn't allowing that sperm to essentially swim up. Like maybe there's not enough cervical mucus that And there's so many different things. like That's a whole episode on its own.
00:22:28
Speaker
But yes, definitely making sure that we do a full thyroid panel as well, not just TSH. Definitely supporting your preconception journey with the right supplements is important. Making sure we've got practitioner grade, prenatals especially.
00:22:41
Speaker
There's certain ones that will not cut it. Do I want to say the name? If you have followed us for a little while, I'm sure you would know. we're always open to you asking, but yeah, there's a really popular one in the chemist that doctors will always recommend and it is not great.
00:23:03
Speaker
No, it contains really poor forms of certain vitamins and minerals and really crappy forms and like low levels, not enough, not therapeutic. So yeah, not what you want to be taking. There's so much better out there and it often makes women feel really nauseous and crap anyway. So that's not good.
00:23:21
Speaker
But making sure that we've got enough omega-3 fatty acids, magnesium, B vitamins, amino acids. We will always often use antioxidant agents like ubiquinol and NAC.
00:23:32
Speaker
We pump through that in clinic, don't we? Yeah, absolutely. We definitely like to start on herbal treatment based off your results. So we're making sure we're seeing those results and basing that off them. There is a long list of incredible herbs.
00:23:45
Speaker
that are not only supportive for fertility, but have the potential to balance your hormones, surge that progesterone and regulate your estrogen and reduce testosterone, whatever needs to happen.
00:23:56
Speaker
The right herbal management for you will depend on what your results are telling you. So for instance, someone with PCOS versus someone with endometriosis will not have the same protocol. And it's never, when you're blending the herbs, you're never doing the same one over and over again.
00:24:11
Speaker
A lot of them will have a similar herb like we use, say, for instance, with thania really commonly in clinic a lot, but they're never the same. You end up with so many herbs on the table because they're all so different because they're all very individualized.
00:24:24
Speaker
Once you are pregnant, congratulations, so exciting. Continue to work with your naturopath. Now is not the time to quit because we need to make sure that not only that is a successful pregnancy and do everything in our power to help with that, but we also need to support you throughout pregnancy. to make sure your nutrient levels are up. And then we also need to support you for birth. There's so much we can do to help you have a healthy, happy birth and then inter postpartum and help with the balancing hormonal side of things. But really in that early pregnancy support, really important to help with optimizing implantation and supporting development of Barb and they're all really crucial.
00:25:04
Speaker
So yeah, know that we're here if you need us.
Resources and Continued Conversations
00:25:06
Speaker
We are happy to help with anything that you're needing. We really do care about our clients and really are always doing everything in our power to help you have a beautiful, healthy, happy pregnancy.
00:25:19
Speaker
So please reach out to us if you'd like some support. And there's a really good organization as well that I just wanted to mention, which is called Pink Elephant, Pink Elephant Support Network. It's a cool name.
00:25:31
Speaker
It's a group. You can find them on Instagram. They support women who have experienced miscarriage, and they have different support. so they have an emotional support network. They have an online community.
00:25:44
Speaker
They have live chats on there. And they do personalised calls as well if you're really struggling. But even just following their Instagram, I guess, is a really nice, supportive place to be. Yeah, somewhere to start. Exactly.
00:25:56
Speaker
And, yeah, anything else you wanted to add? i think I've covered it all. Yeah, you covered a lot But it's definitely good, I feel, to have open and honest conversations with partners and loved ones and are really important to know that they if you need that support that they're there're there for you and i guess again just breaking down that stigma around it where it's a miscarriage is a woman's problem yeah it's unfortunately common and most of the people that are in your life there's definitely someone in there that's experienced something whether they've told you or not yeah yeah so you can reach out to us at www.mongleinhealth.com
00:26:32
Speaker
Yes, or on Instagram, we are mungbean underscore health. So M-U-N-G-B-E-A-N underscore health. Thanks for tuning in. See you next time. Bye, guys.
00:26:53
Speaker
And that's a wrap on today's dose of wellness. I'm Rhiannon, your fertility fairy godmother. Thank you for joining us. Stay connected with us on Instagram at mungbin underscore health.