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#29 The Vaginal Microbiome & Fertility with Naturopaths Riannon & Emily
34 Plays5 days ago
The Bean Talk – Episode 29: The Vaginal Microbiome & Fertility with Naturopaths Riannon & Emily
This week, Riannon is joined by fellow Mungbean naturopath, Emily to talk about all things vaginal microbiome. What it is, how to support it, and why a healthy vaginal microbiome is crucial for your fertility.
They explore the common disruptors (like antibiotics, tight gym gear, and harsh soaps), the link between vaginal health and sperm survival, and why preconception care is key. If you’ve ever struggled with discomfort, infections, or just want to better understand your body, this episode is packed with practical insights.
Connect with us on Instagram or TikTok @mungbean_health or visit mungbeanhealth.com for expert support.
If you want to book an appointment with one of our incredible naturopaths, visit our website: https://mungbeanhealth.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Mission
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to The Bean Talk with me, Rhiannon, your fertility fairy godmother, joined by my trusted partner in life and in the mission of Mungbean Health, Jeremy. Here at Mungbean Health, we're on a mission to unlock the secrets of fertility and natural wellbeing one episode at time.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hi guys and welcome back to The Bean Talk. Today I have the amazing Emily. She is one of our naturopaths here with me today. i I'm so excited to finally do this episode. I feel so bad that I haven't got you guys on here yet, but you girls busy, okay?
00:00:40
Speaker
So are we as well, so that's good. Exactly. It's good reason. It's worked out perfectly that. I just thought today we've got a bit of free time between the both of us, so let's Get it done. Okay.
Emily's Week and Client Success Story
00:00:51
Speaker
Now you've obviously know about our podcast and our little bean and big bean.
00:00:57
Speaker
So tell me, what do you got going on with your little bean and big bean? So I had to think about this so much because yeah, it's a hard one to think of what have I done this week, but it's also a good reflection. So my little bean, I think something a bit random, but I started off my week with a yoga class and it was just the most beautiful. It was a hot yoga and I never do slow impact classes, but I always tell my clients too. So i was like, okay, I'm obviously going to take my own advice.
00:01:28
Speaker
And I started that and it just set the whole tone for the week. I was so calm and oh yes it was good. and my big bean is actually a client win. So I have been working with this client, well, his mom for about six months now.
00:01:47
Speaker
He came into the clinic with just extreme constipation from and he's very young. He's only about four years old and he's been struggling with this pretty much his whole life. And he's been on Movacol and Oslimax and every single type of laxative that there is. And even that wasn't working.
00:02:06
Speaker
We found like a couple of things that help, but we decided about a month ago just to completely change the treatment plan. And yeah, what the changes that we made are working perfectly. So we had a really good call yesterday.
00:02:19
Speaker
He has been going every day. so good. Every single day and like, really well formed. And it's really good because a lot of kids, especially if they have issues with going to the bathroom, a lot of anxiety comes up there. So we targeted that quite a bit. It was a big focus for us.
00:02:36
Speaker
And i think we just yeah found the sweet spot. So we're all holding our fingers crossed, hoping that it keeps going. But Yeah, it was a big win. I was so happy for mom.
00:02:47
Speaker
I love that. That is so special. Actually, I have a client very similar and it was just all about the anxiety. i just wish you could just take that anxiety out of it for the little ones and let them poop in peace. Honestly, hers was just about holding on.
00:03:01
Speaker
She just wouldn't let go. And if she was at school and needed to go, she wouldn't go. But then it's like almost panic attack because it's like, I got to go. I'm anxious. Oh my God, what if something happens? And yeah, it's so hard to see them like that. So well done. Thank you. Amazing. Love those results and client results. Honestly, what just keep you going? Hey.
00:03:22
Speaker
Oh, they really do. And I think you learn so much about one client and those results that you get to just use that in other clients as well. So It all just keeps filtering through. Yes.
00:03:32
Speaker
ah What about yourself?
Rhiannon's Personal Health Journey
00:03:34
Speaker
Knowledge on top of knowledge on top of knowledge. That's where the experience comes in. It's amazing. Little Bean would be... would be Little Bean would probably be that I'm like totally off coffee now, even though I was only drinking decaf. So don't know if it even counts, but for me it does because I was drinking that every day and it's still got caffeine in there, which I feel like is the norm. And look, I'd have it after 10 o'clock in the morning and I'd have it after my breakfast. So it's doing it right.
00:04:02
Speaker
I am now just having like matcha every day, which still has some obviously a bit of caffeine in there, but it's also got plenty of antioxidants and yeah I'm absolutely loving it I feel like it's great for doesn't cause any of the jittery feeling that you might get from having caffeine it's also been really amazing for my digestive system which is a funny left field one it's not what you're doing it for and it's not what you think about with matcha but Who doesn't love a good digestive system?
00:04:29
Speaker
But wasn't it you and I talking where we saw that thing where it was like ah one serve of matcha is equivalent to like 18 tea bags of green tea in regards to fiber. So you actually get so much more fiber out of the matcha powder, which everyone needs more fiber. So that's so good.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yes. And I feel like you can also use it really effectively. Like your body knows because it's such a natural substance that your body knows what to do with it. And it's enjoyable. Now I'm just like fine tuning my favorite way to drink it.
00:04:59
Speaker
I'm keeping it quite basic at home, but I'm looking forward for your advice to help me make that a little bit more exciting, to be honest. I'm such a marchi girl. I love it. Yeah. And then my big bean is that I've gotten myself organized for some follow-up testing. Now I have had testing after Rome in saying that he is 14 months now. How the hell did that happen?
00:05:21
Speaker
my gosh.
Vaginal Microbiome and Fertility
00:05:23
Speaker
Oh gosh, they grow so quick, but I'm doing some follow-up testing, some basic blood tests just to get a checkup. Cause it's probably been like, I reckon I must've done it quite close to after he was born like that normal six to eight weeks. Um,
00:05:35
Speaker
I can't even remember, gosh, but it's been about a year. So I like to do it yearly. And I'm also going to do a vaginal microbiome test, which I did a couple of them in pregnancy with Rome. And I have done them before that, just to make sure that the whole environment is thriving, which is also not the reason that I'm doing it for, but also really important for your fertility. Yeah.
00:05:59
Speaker
I thought were going to tell me something then, Rhi. I'm going to tell you a whole lot of information today. I'm sure you already know all about it, but hopefully some of our listeners will learn something amazing today.
00:06:10
Speaker
i guess it's much like our digestive system. Both men and women's reproductive systems are home to an abundance of different bacterias and microbes as well. So for women, the vaginal microbiome plays a crucial role in not only maintaining the health of the reproductive tract,
00:06:28
Speaker
and help, but can largely influence fertility and pregnancy outcomes. And I do actually see this a lot in clinic. I'm sure you do as well, Em, where when people don't have that thriving vaginal microbiome,
00:06:43
Speaker
it can really just stop a pregnancy from occurring at the get-go because we want it to be a healthy, happy environment where the sperm is happy and healthy and ready to fly through. Whereas there's a lot against it if it's not, yeah, if it's not thriving.
00:06:58
Speaker
The way I like to explain it to my clients as well is, so obviously there is ah both the microbiome in the gut and the vagina, but Think of it like the gut is a big house party where everyone's invited, but you want more of the cool people than not. Whereas the vaginal microbiome is more of a quaint dinner party where it would really, you'd really notice if there were bad guys there.
00:07:24
Speaker
Whereas the gut, you probably wouldn't as much because there's just so many people. So that's why when we're thinking about vaginal microbiome and fertility It is so important because of the fact that it is quite a unique ecosystem compared to the rest of the macrobiome.
00:07:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. i love that explanation. It's so true. It's like the vaginal macrobiome is as you get older and you're only having a select few people at your dinner party and you're cooking for them rather than you're just like at a nightclub where everyone's invited. Yes, exactly.
00:07:57
Speaker
And yeah, the bad parties, you can notice it, which is not fun. Absolutely. Absolutely. And honestly, like I'm sure pretty much everyone's experienced like thrush or uncomfortable symptoms in their life. And it is just so uncomfortable. You're I'm just trying to live my life, trying to get on with my day. And whether you've got like a discharge that's there or some women that might get an odor with a certain type of bacterial overgrowth or like the itch, oh my God, annoying.
00:08:24
Speaker
It's the worst. And yeah, I also think as well, there's not really too much education around it. So unfortunately, a lot of the supports that we tend to opt for for thrush or bb actually make it worse absolutely and i guess now it's only really like now i guess over maybe the last what Do you reckon since 2000s-ish is when that it's been a lot less taboo to talk about these things?
00:08:51
Speaker
would honestly say later. I'd say within last 10 years. The last 10 years, I know, because it's obviously like in the naturopathic world, we've been talking about it for a long time and it's something that comes up and it's not necessarily carrying a lot of stigma for us. Like we talk about poo every day and people still hate talking about their poop and think that it's
Signs and Causes of Poor Vaginal Microbiome
00:09:11
Speaker
not okay. Yeah.
00:09:12
Speaker
But we love asking about you, Poov. It tells us so much about you and what we can do for you. But I feel that back in the day, oh, you would never, like if a younger woman had an issue with thrush, you wouldn't talk about it. My gosh. Or just going to the chemist to try to get like the thrush cream, you'd be like, excuse me.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yes, you Like, I can't say this out loud. I'm going to write it down for you. And then the chemist screens it. It's like the morning. i ah really But due to the poor vaginal microbiome and infections, this can actually lead to really bad inflammation and changes in the cervical mucus that can hinder the sperm movement and fertilization, which we need the sperm to obviously get there. And then we obviously need to have fertilization as well.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, we definitely don't want the sperm being impacted before it even gets a chance. Exactly. want that healthy vaginal microbiome with that healthy egg white cervical mucus so that then the sperm can swim up at a super highway and get there as quick as possible, honestly.
00:10:12
Speaker
But then also, I guess even the vaginal microbiome plays such a large role in falling pregnant, but it actually plays a really large role in pregnancy itself. And yeah, there's been a lot of studies that show it could be linked with preterm birth, ah miscarriage and some other pregnancy impacts as well. So it's actually a big thing that's ongoing for our clients as well with their fertility journey.
00:10:35
Speaker
Absolutely. I actually talk about this with a lot of people and I feel like we're only just at the tip of the iceberg. Like we only know so much now and it's amazing what we're learning and so many studies are coming out about it. But before we had no idea, we didn't talk about it, we didn't know what was happening.
00:10:51
Speaker
And there's going to be so much more to come from that. But I also like to think of that vaginal microbiome like a first line of defense from any infections, which obviously can travel up and get to baby or stop that implantation from happening or whatever it might look like in many different cases.
00:11:07
Speaker
Obviously, once we fall pregnant, then like you're saying, we need to maintain that healthy pregnancy. And we really want to ward off any infections that can unfortunately cause miscarriage or preterm labor. So absolutely. Absolutely.
00:11:20
Speaker
Just what you were saying then about the fact that we're only just on the precipice, a really good point to make is that up until quite recently, the uterus was actually considered a sterile environment. And now we know that it's not, it actually has a microbiome and that will know the the support that you do in preconception and pregnancy is 100% going to be so important for that.
00:11:44
Speaker
Totally. And if you're someone who has suffered with a lot of thrush or BV, or you just never felt quite right in that environment. And you're always getting different little, whether it's an infection or just an uncomfortable symptom, like it's time to delve a bit deeper into that. And honestly, like the vaginal microbiome tests that we order for our clients, we do it through a private lab and you can just do it at home.
00:12:06
Speaker
Like it's literally, I can't remember if one or two swabs. I think it might be two, two I think it's one's a little bit deeper than the other one. Again, because there's microbiome in the cervix. Exactly.
00:12:17
Speaker
yeah Get the different areas, get the different microbes that are there. And it's just, I feel like with a lot of this testing, it's so good to just be in control and front foot it. Find out what's going on. Make sure that it's all A-OK.
00:12:30
Speaker
Just so people listening know, the vaginal microbiome test will not only test your the pathogenic bacteria that could be causing BV, it will test for candida that can cause thrush. And there's actually quite a few different species of candida as well. So it's really important to know.
00:12:47
Speaker
But I really love this test because it actually will show the levels of lactobacilli that you have, which is our probiotic bacteria as well. So it's pretty comprehensive and It just shows you exactly what you need to do to support yourself.
00:13:02
Speaker
Absolutely. Totally agree. i love it. So easy and tells us so much. And obviously what we want to know is not just about the bad guys, but we also want to know if the good guys are there because if the good guys are strong enough, they're going to fight the good fight. Whereas sometimes if they're really low, the opportunistic bacterias are going to go, hey, now's our chance because they're there's no guards at the door. Let's run in Whereas normally we'll have the guards there that will fight them off. So Yeah. And not to mention as well, you can have pathogenic bacteria overgrowth without testing positive for BV. So a lot of our clients will say that they're having these symptoms, but they go to their GP, they get the swab tested there and it says negative.
00:13:42
Speaker
We then go and do a vaginal microbiome and it actually shows, yes, it's negative, but you do have overgrowth of this bacteria and next week you could test and it could be positive. Absolutely. And sometimes certain things will show up with very similar symptoms. so you'll be like, I'm treating the thrush, I'm treating all that.
00:13:58
Speaker
But really, it's another bacteria that's an issue and you are never going to get on top of it with thrush cream from the chemist. Or if you go and test your BV with antibiotics, but there's candida there, all that's going to do is just make your candida have a party and then you get thrush.
00:14:12
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah I love the fact that the microbiome is in the vagina, the cervix and the fallopian tubes, which people don't really think about. And in all the different areas, there's like different pH levels, which we know more about now, which is amazing. And what's thriving in there wouldn't thrive in another environment and vice versa.
00:14:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So some typical signs, I think we've mentioned a couple, but some typical signs of that poor vaginal microbiome is obviously the typical change in discharge. you might have a slight change in odor. There might be different colors or textures and the amount of discharge as well is obviously going to be a good identifier. Yeah.
00:14:54
Speaker
As women, we obviously have discharge throughout our cycle, but it's really those fluctuations, odours and colours that we're looking for there. and good about learning about your actual body and what that looks like. And if there's anything that seems strange or out of the norm for you, then like investigating that.
00:15:11
Speaker
Again, re mentioned before that lovely irritation and itching that is quite common. Feels like you, yeah, it's just all day. You feel it. And it's honestly, and would not wish it upon anyone.
00:15:25
Speaker
Actually, and it always comes at the worst times possible as well. It's yeah, not a fun time. Yeah. Obviously, if you are somebody that gets reoccurring thrush and BV as well, that is something that you really want to treat as quickly as possible because that some people will get it just for once off, which is there's so many different things that can impact that. But it's the reoccurring that really goes to show that there's something quite chronic happening.
00:15:52
Speaker
Absolutely. And also another big one, which would actually probably come up, especially if you are trying to conceive is painful intercourse. And that really comes from the fact that we have mucosal walls is what we call them in the gut. Everywhere there's a microbiome, there's a mucosa and changes to that bacteria can really irritate and impact that lining, which can actually make you yeah quite sore,
00:16:19
Speaker
quite sensitive and especially have painful intercourse. So that's a really good telltale sign as well. Absolutely. Because painful sex shouldn't be a thing. Obviously, you're doing it in certain ways, maybe, but if it's just like a normal, it's just started hurting and you just have been doing it really normally, then I think that is definitely always a telltale sign that something more is going on because it shouldn't be painful.
00:16:43
Speaker
you want to tell us a little bit more about the causes of poor vagina microbiome health? Yes. So we mentioned before a little bit, but antibiotics, they they work given the fact that they will kill bacteria, but they're obviously not specific to the bacteria that they kill. If we want those good immune defenses, like those good probiotics and antibiotics are consistently killing them off, then that's going to be a huge impact.
00:17:11
Speaker
We also know that will decrease again, the probiotic bacteria, but also it will change the acidity of the vaginal pH as well, which can just open up the gates for bacteria growth.
00:17:23
Speaker
So antibiotics are a huge one. And how many times in clinic do we see clients that'll be like, I've got thrush, it's come on. Hey, have you done antibiotics in the last XYZ?
00:17:33
Speaker
Oh yes, I was really sick and I took antibiotics and yeah, okay, there's the link. It happens so many times that they'll get thrush after it. Usually it's quite manageable when we've had it from something like that, but we need to make sure that we're repopulating.
00:17:47
Speaker
So good reminder is if you're ever taking antibiotics, make sure you're taking probiotics. Also, I forever in my time have always made people take probiotics alongside trying to get them to do it at different ish times.
00:18:00
Speaker
then they're antibiotics. Whereas the old advice that people were using was have it afterwards because it's just going to kill it off. But for me, I'm like, there's small windows in there that the good guys will be fighting the good fight.
00:18:10
Speaker
And research now has come out that you should be doing it alongside. And we also use a specific probiotic as well that's actually aimed at antibiotic use probiotics. So it's a higher dose and it's a really stable species as well. So Remember the type of probiotic you're using matters, which we'll actually talk about a little bit later. up But some other things that can also disrupt are hormones.
00:18:37
Speaker
So we know in pregnancy that thrush can definitely come up, but also menopause and specific times around your cycle. A lot of our clients might find that they don't get thrush or BV symptoms often, but then right before their period, they'll have an episode And that is really because estrogen, when that drops, especially during menopause or of course, right before your cycle, it actually reduces reduces glycogen in the vaginal cells. And that can lead to an unfavorable environment for lactobacillus, which is our probiotic bacteria.
00:19:13
Speaker
So it actually, that estrogen drops, the glycogen drops, the lactobacillus aren't really fed. And then that helps the bad bacteria just go. So Definitely looking at hormones. And this is a big factor. Obviously, when we're looking at fertility, we're already taking such a big look at hormones. But if you're someone who hasn't tested your hormones before and you are getting thrush, you really need to work on both together. You can't have one isolated.
00:19:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Some other things, hormonal contraceptives. Now, this is a bit taboo to talk about, but they, of course, change your hormones. So that's going to be a really big impact.
00:19:55
Speaker
We do know that IUDs as well can really change the microbiome and might, not in every case, but might also lead to an increase of thrush and BV.
00:20:08
Speaker
Very commonly linked there and something, again, we see in clinic. It's not always necessarily, obviously, the studies always back it up, but sometimes you'll see things in clinic over and over again and you're like, it's happening. It's literally happening in front of our eyes.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. i always tell my clients to be so mindful of feminine hygiene products as well. yeah Not only for fertility, it's a big factor, making sure that you're using organic or cotton period underwear or sanitary products.
00:20:35
Speaker
But FemFresh, all those great things that we see in the shops, let's just be honest, they're really good at doing marketing and they're really good at marketing. They literally are going to tell you to use it, but then you can never get off it because it's destructing your pH.
00:20:53
Speaker
And they're using it like so frequently as well. The instructions are like using it multiple times a day and it's literally like washing away beneficial bacteria.
Lifestyle Impacts on Vaginal Health
00:21:02
Speaker
Exactly. And what woman or man has ever gone, oh, thank God.
00:21:07
Speaker
i smell like a lavender field. i know is crazy, isn't it? And all these young girls that get on it and I'm just like, oh, your poor little vaginal microbiome. I need to do better with Evie. That's for sure.
00:21:20
Speaker
like Yeah. yeah yeah And then also, so obviously the feminine washes aren't great, but we also need to be mindful of what soaps we're using. So really you shouldn't be using anything in that area around is fine, but it is, it has its own pH. It has its own probiotic bacteria.
00:21:37
Speaker
It takes care of itself if you take care of it. italy And if you are getting odors or itchies or redness or irritation, something else is going on. It's not because you're not scrubbing it with soap every day. it should be able to have thrive on its own.
00:21:52
Speaker
You've got to look into that again, vagina microbiome, or we'd look at hormones or something, but It's definitely telling us. And look, maybe if you've been using the soaps twice a day for 10 years, it might have a little bit of an adjustment straight after. So just know that, but try not to fall back into, I'm going to use soap every day.
00:22:10
Speaker
Try and get off it. Even if it's a little bit slower than what we'd like, it still is important. And also just those everyday things. So wiping front to back, not back to front. yeah That's really important.
00:22:22
Speaker
Also just, yeah, making sure that when you are washing silicone washer is actually much better at reducing bacteria and the underwear and clothes that you wear as well. That's a huge factor as well.
00:22:35
Speaker
If you are somebody who is prone to thrush and you're wearing tight fitting polyester clothing all the time, it's really just a breeding environment for bacteria. So be mindful of that.
00:22:46
Speaker
The bloody gym pants that are full of plastic that people wear all day, every day. Like I've been there when it was a big phase. And I remember it was like, everyone would like, we'd obviously go to the gym, Jeremy and I, and like I'd wear them and then you'd wear them like ongoing and they were always like tight and they're just full of plastic. And you're just like, no wonder so many people are struggling with their fertility when we're literally suffocating our reproductive system in plastic.
00:23:12
Speaker
Yeah. And also just think about, I was just thinking about gym clothes and I'm a hot Pilates girl. So those rooms are really hot. And I come home and the first thing I do is wash my face because I don't want any bacteria or sweat getting trapped. It's the same thing for the rest of our skin and our body. So if you are someone who does work out or have really sweaty workouts, make sure that you're hopping in the shower as quickly as possible after.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yes. And opting for like natural fibers if you can. But if you are wearing like for something that you're not wanting to wear all day, just make sure you change out of it. If you needed, say you're doing a spin class and you're like, oh, they're my favorite bike pants and the other ones always catch on the bike or whatever.
00:23:50
Speaker
It's fine. Like you can absolutely live your life and to have an 80-20 rule, but make sure when you get home, you don't just stay in the polyester. Just change it and i am a spin girl i love it so i 100 agree with that some other things that we might not think of that can impact as well diet and lifestyle so we know that diets that are high in processed foods sugars and carbohydrates they can definitely impact not only microbiome of the vagina but also your gut health and everything else Smoking has so so so, so, so many studies on links with higher risk of bacterial vaginosis.
00:24:27
Speaker
Obviously, any of our clients that come in and they are looking at fertility support or just any health support, if they are a smoker, it is going to be one of the first things that we try to support. But yeah, yes just know that's a big risk factor.
00:24:39
Speaker
And stress and immune function as well. So chronic stress obviously can impact your hormones, your blood sugar levels. Also, not just to mention that chronic stress, we make poorer life choices in regards to diet and lifestyle as well. So obviously that's going to have a flow on effect.
00:24:54
Speaker
But given the fact that probiotic bacteria is such a huge part of our immune function, even in the vaginal microbiome, if we don't have that, we have a muine we have weakened immune system function.
00:25:06
Speaker
So that can also increase that risk as well. Absolutely. So a few things. And one last thing that I wanted to mention, and this actually would just play more of a role if we're looking at vaginal microbiome and fertility is lubricants.
00:25:22
Speaker
So there are, we know that there are specific types of lubricants that not only can harm your vaginal microbiome, but can also really harm sperm as well. So it's like a double whammy there. If you're using a lubricant that is a glycerin or oil-based, try opt for a water base.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yes. Or what was the one you did a lot of research into this? Jojoba oil. Yeah. I do love the jojoba and I know a couple of other naturopaths that do recommend it as well.
00:25:52
Speaker
Being that it is very natural to our own skin's oil sebum, it's very natural. So it's not like it's an oil like any other oil in its makeup, which is really good. I find as well for clients that have vaginal dryness because I find it is a little bit like more moisturizing.
00:26:10
Speaker
um But it's not, it's, it is an oily base, but it's nothing too heavy, or it's not going to disrupt the way that the sperm is swimming or anything. So it is a nice little addition.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah, perfect. So yeah, they're the main ones that I would definitely be looking at and discussing quite a bit with my clients as to whether they are some risk factors.
Dysbiosis and Pregnancy Risks
00:26:31
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:26:32
Speaker
do you want to walk us through a little bit more about how dysbiosis can impact pregnancy? I know we spoke a little bit about it in the start, being that it is like that first line of defense, but can you tell us a little bit more?
00:26:44
Speaker
Yes. so again, just to reiterate, when we said at the start that altered vaginal pH can really impact sperm survival. So when that dysbiosis, so the imbalance of bacteria occurs,
00:26:58
Speaker
And we have less of the good guys, more of the bad guys that can raise the pH, which makes it obviously detrimental to sperm. The sperm can get damaged before it even gets a chance to get there.
00:27:11
Speaker
It can also, which I mean, it is so sad, especially if you're somebody who's trying so hard to fall pregnant and you can't work out why. And it's really the fact that the The sperm doesn't even have a chance to get to the egg. And this is really important, especially when we have clients who are struggling with infertility. They, the hubby goes and gets his sperm checked, gets told that everything's fine and there's no issues, which that's true, but the sperm is being damaged.
00:27:40
Speaker
But also what is fine when you haven't had it looked over by a naturopath? Think again, because sometimes the, we all know that the GP's reference ranges for everything testing is very wide.
00:27:52
Speaker
So they'll often say things look fine when they're not. So you're storage iron for your ferritin your storage iron your ferritin could be like 30 whereas the reference range is like 30 to 200 right but you could be 30 and they're like you're all good you're fine and you're like cool like okay i don't know why i'm tired it's like obviously all in my head i'm just going crazy whereas you go back in two weeks after you've had your period and you're like 29 they're like oh your iron's low now and it's that was literally two weeks different so Obviously, so not to mention like the iron is such a good one to point out the difference between normal and optimal because exactly what you just said, a woman comes in, she goes and gets her iron tested. It's sitting at 30 and that's normal.
00:28:33
Speaker
And then right after her, a six-year-old boy goes and gets his iron tested and it's 30 and normal. How are they the same? Yeah. It's so true. Yes. Yeah, definitely looking yeah at what's optimal, not normal. And that's also the same for vaginal microbiome as well. You might see on the test that you get through your GP, it will say normal amounts of lactobacilli detected.
00:28:58
Speaker
But again, when we go and actually look at that test, it could just be that one of the bacteria species of lactobacilli was detected. normal but then all the others were in an undetected level really looking at the whole picture exactly okay that's good to go exactly and they're not gonna if they're not gonna test for all of it they're not gonna know so they're just gonna go off for what they know yeah another risk factor with a poor vaginal microbiome health in pregnancy specifically is it can actually increase the risk of pelvic inflammatory disease so pit
00:29:31
Speaker
This BV specifically, not necessarily thrush, but that can really impact the upper reproductive tract. So we spoke about this before that we know that there are some types of bacteria in fallopian tubes and uterus.
00:29:45
Speaker
yeah There aren't enough studies just yet on ovaries, but yeah, that one's a big question mark. But we do know that obviously inflammation of that upper reproductive tract will have an impact on ovarian function as well.
00:29:59
Speaker
Absolutely. And we know the pH is a difference. So we could probably assume that the microbiome there, and there's going to be changes as well. It's very sensitive area.
00:30:10
Speaker
And then it not that lower vaginal microbiome or dysbiosis doesn't have a risk factor on damage to fallopian tubes, but because it is increasing the risk of pelvic inflammatory disease.
00:30:26
Speaker
We know that can then lead to scarring of fallopian tubes, which obviously can make it harder to fall pregnant as well. So that's a really big one.
Cervical Mucus and Fertility
00:30:35
Speaker
Chronic endometriosis as well. We actually are seeing a lot more studies now on vaginal microbiome dysbiosis and that chronic endometriosis.
00:30:45
Speaker
So inflammation to the endometrium obviously can really impact that. Also chronic endometriosis, which is not endometriosis, honestly, tongue twister there, but vaginal dysbiosis has been associated with chronic endometriitis, a low grade persistent inflammation of the endometrium, which is the lining of the uterus, but it is often asymptomatic. So no symptoms there.
00:31:15
Speaker
It's absolutely linked to implantation failure in women undergoing IVF as the inflammation can prevent a fertilized egg from properly embedding in the uterine lining. So stopping that implantation being that it is inflammation that's present and not a good time.
00:31:34
Speaker
doctors if they do pick up on this or fertility specialist will usually just test for a infection but a lot of the time it will actually come back as no infection present so then that's when the vaginal microbiome would be better because then you're going to look into different bacterias that are present pathogens not just are we looking for stds or stis any oh which actually is a good point to make the vaginal microbiome test actually will test for stis as well Yes, absolutely.
00:32:02
Speaker
Yes, that is a good point there. Love that. It can also impact cervical mucus as well. Yes, absolutely. re you love talking about cervical mucus, so I feel like this is a good one for you to mention. and so good. I do. I love talking about cervical mucus because it is we can use it to our advantage. And again, a taboo subject that but before 10 years ago, we probably weren't even allowed to say the words.
00:32:27
Speaker
And I know it's still a learning thing and people are still just finding out about their body, but honestly getting in tune with it can not only support our fertility, but also how we just feel as women. yeah It's not always going to come outside. a lot of cases like in PCOS, it's not always going to come outside the body. Sometimes we have to dig in there. So make sure you've got clean hands and have a feel inside around that mid cycle around ovulation.
00:32:51
Speaker
Tie that up with BBT, temperature charting, so you can see when you're ovulating and feel inside and then start to see the consistency in between your fingers. It might take you a couple of times, but you might find out you've got no cervical white, egg white cervical mucus, or you might find out it's more creamy or more watery like, and some of them are fertile, some of them aren't.
00:33:11
Speaker
So during ovulation, cervical mucus absolutely changes to become that more sperm friendly, less acidic and more fluidly, facilitating sperm movement through the cervix into the uterus. So it's all about helping that sperm to swim.
00:33:25
Speaker
Superhighway, getting there fast, getting there easily. it also makes, I feel, the entire intercourse a lot more enjoyable for women because vaginal dryness is terrible and it's usually linked with obviously low estrogen levels, which happens in postpartum and also very big in perimenopause, but can happen outside of that. So if you are suffering with vaginal dryness, definitely reach out because it shouldn't be that way.
00:33:51
Speaker
There'll be times throughout the month where you are more dry, but you should still always be comfortably lubricated. i don't know if that's the right word to use.
00:34:01
Speaker
No, I think so. I think it's so interesting because we're talking about this, the mucus and fertility, but it all really ties back to what we were saying before about triggers for BV or thrush is hormonal changes, vaginal dryness, etc. So it really goes to show just how much this is so important for fertility.
00:34:24
Speaker
And how it's all connected. Absolutely.
Supporting Vaginal Health Naturally
00:34:27
Speaker
I know it all comes back into a little bit of a web. So yeah, you really want to feel it in between your fingers and you want it to be like an egg white consistency where it's like stretchy essentially and can stick between the two.
00:34:38
Speaker
Sometimes it will be more watery and that is okay. That is still fertile mucus, but it's when it's becoming very creamy and thicker that it's a bit more of an issue because we're thinking about the sperm swimming. It's all about it swimming.
00:34:51
Speaker
yeah The dysbiosis in the vagina can actually alter the composition of this mucus, making it less conductive to sperm transport. Sperm transport, I love that.
00:35:02
Speaker
Little transport, little shuttle bus. There's not good bacteria. ah Exactly. And it can absolutely inhibit that fertilization altogether. And As Em was saying before, like there is so much that we can do to help this process, but if we're not even getting the sperm there, it's such a massive part of the picture.
00:35:21
Speaker
yeah Lastly, another reason why it's quite important, and I don't want to cause any anxiety around this because the body is incredible and microbiome is very quickly to change and very adaptable as well. So if this is You know, if you're listening to this podcast and you do have issues with vaginal microbiome, just know, yeah, it's very quick to change and adapt, which is always a good thing. You just need to be supported in the right way. But there have been some studies that have shown that that dysbiosis can actually be associated with early pregnancy loss, particularly bacterial vaginosis that can increase the risk of early miscarriage or complications such as preterm birth.
00:36:03
Speaker
And that's really just because of the inflammation that occurs from that harmful bacteria. But again, we've got to remember that the vaginal microbiome is that little dinner party.
00:36:13
Speaker
So it's pretty quick for you to be able to say, hey, off you go bad guys. We just want the good guys here. Yeah, there's lots of interventions and supports that we can do to completely minimize that risk for you.
00:36:26
Speaker
Absolutely. And this is where preconception care, one of the reasons it's so important is because we can get that environment thriving for you. Whereas if you've already fallen pregnant, obviously we meet you where you're at and just come and see us if you know you've already fallen because sometimes accidents happen, but there's so much we can do to influence influence and support that pregnancy.
00:36:47
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So I guess maybe let's talk about that support of how we can do it. Absolutely. So we spoke earlier before, but practicing that good hygiene.
00:36:58
Speaker
So avoiding any harsh chemicals or over-fragrance feminine hygiene products so you don't need to smell like a spring flower bouquet. Honestly, if you've got some vagina or special vagina products that are sitting in your shower,
00:37:14
Speaker
chuck them away. And if for clients that already have daughters and that's their plan to get them washing with that, please let's change it for the next generation and just chuck them away.
00:37:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. We mentioned earlier, yeah, opting for the breathable cotton underwear or clothing. so that's obviously going to allow proper ventilation and reduce that moisture buildup. Really important if you are in a flare.
00:37:39
Speaker
You really have to let everything breathe. Absolutely. And I don't know if this is again, like a taboo thing, but I personally am like no undies to bed. I don't think that anyone should be wearing undies to bed.
00:37:54
Speaker
Because I think that it gives a moment for little sis to breathe while you're sleeping. And I feel like she's cooped up all day. You've just got to let her have proper ventilation.
00:38:04
Speaker
and I just think that is like a thing. I guess it's probably what I was always taught when I was a young girl as well. Obviously wearing pants, but just not undies underneath. I feel like you don't need that extra.
00:38:15
Speaker
layer at bedtime. It's so funny. My sister's five years older than me. So when I was a teenager, I was around all of her friends that were older, but I was like young teens. They were about 18.
00:38:27
Speaker
And I just remember them, yeah, if they were having a sleepover or something, she'd be like, gotta let her breathe. I'm like, why does she need to breathe? And now that I'm older, I'm like, oh, I understand what was happening.
00:38:39
Speaker
Like I'm learning so much. So good. I love that that's something you remember though. That's so good. Your sisters need to do that. Yes. Staying hydrated is very important as well. And not only obviously for just like our overall health, but the same way that we talk about staying hydrated is really great for the bowels and keeping everything hydrated, but it's also the same for vaginal tissue and it needs to be filtered water.
00:39:08
Speaker
Remember that anything that you're Anything you're not already detoxing or purifying, it means that your body has to do that. And if your body's already in a state of inflammation or dysbiosis, it's just going to have to work harder.
00:39:23
Speaker
Totally. We don't want to give the body any extra work. No. So eating a balanced diet is obviously important for our overall health, but surprisingly important for our vaginal microbiome. So increasing foods that are rich in vitamins and minerals and nutrients, such as fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, lean proteins, and don't forget your healthy fats, while also making sure that we are limiting the intake of inflammatory sugars,
00:39:50
Speaker
processed foods and alcohol so including the good stuff and limiting the bad stuff is really going to support our vaginal microbiome and listening to your body as well with diet because how many times have you know or like when we were younger let's say 18 years old we had a big weekend out at the clubs and then the next week you'd be like oh something feels really funky down there so you know if you are somebody who might have a flare at a random time go back and track and say okay did i eat inflammatory foods did I drink enough water was did I drink too much alcohol you pretty quickly be able to figure that out totally and another little hack that you can do is making sure that you are eating your probiotics obviously you can get amazing probiotic like supplementation that is specific to the vaginal health which I don't know if we've actually mentioned but
00:40:41
Speaker
The vagina is lactobacillus dominant. So we want to be making sure we have a good amount of lactobacillus. Whereas talking about the gut before with all the party goers, it's a lot more diverse. There's a lot more going on in there. Whereas vaginal is just, we want really positive lactobacillus levels in there.
00:40:58
Speaker
So increasing probiotic rich foods in your diet while also looking at supplementing specific strains for the vaginal health if needed are going to be really supportive of that entire vaginal microbiome, which some good options would be sauerkraut, kefir, what else you got here? Kombucha, Greek yogurts, natural yogurts. I've actually been making my chia puddings with kefir.
00:41:25
Speaker
instead of milk and urine and it's so good because you're getting just such a higher amount of probiotics so good and avoiding overuse of antibiotics which actually i was thinking about before when we were talking about the antibiotics save the antibiotics for when we really need them they can be absolutely life-saving and amazing the problem is they are overused unfortunately you go to the doctor they don't really have a lot in their tool belt for if you are sick so often they'll just be like take some antibiotics you have some antibiotics and every time you do that your body's going to slowly build up a bit of that resistance to it and also it's going to bring down the good defenses yes we can build it back up but if you're using them all the time 10 times in winter we want to save them for we're really sick if we've got a really life-threatening illness
00:42:09
Speaker
an infection or something like you're going to pump your body full of them and you're just going to do what you got to do.
Mungbean Health's Approach to Fertility
00:42:15
Speaker
But overuse, over the counter ones, yeah, really bad. Unfortunately, punishishingbi not replenishing because the excessive use is yeah shown to alter vaginal bacteria as well as gut bacteria as well.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Managing stress is also a really important one. So we mentioned earlier chronic and persistent stress on the body. can really impact our immune function and our probiotic bacteria. So, you know, doing things that are stress reducers are so important for just our overall health but also to and fertility, but also really essential in reducing that risk of dysbiosis.
00:42:55
Speaker
Absolutely. And also avoiding long-term use of or oral contraceptive pill. the As we were chatting before, unfortunately, or oral contraceptive contains synthetic hormones that influence the body the body's natural hormone levels, really, leading to changes in the pH of the vagina and affecting the bacteria as well. So you really want to be mindful of that.
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah. But obviously, if you are somebody who is looking into fertility and you have been on oral contraceptives for a long time, working with naturopath or any type of health practitioner to actually taper yourself off these so you don't have such intense symptoms when you come off. Yes, you don't want to just go and stop medications. That's not what we're about.
00:43:39
Speaker
But yeah, we want to put some things in place to support you if that is something you're wanting to come off, like the the pill. And what about some amazing ways that I guess we support at Mungbean in our clinic for our clients?
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So obviously we do see a lot of clients for fertility and this is also an area that we do a lot of education on for both ourselves and our clients. So we actually will do quite often educational lectures and learn more about it. So we're always changing the way that we're supporting our clients because we're always learning new ways.
00:44:15
Speaker
But a big thing is identifying those risk factors first and removing them. so looking at diet, looking at lifestyle, looking at hygiene, et cetera. Vaginal microbiome test, always better to test, not guess. We don't want to just assume that there's a bacteria overgrowth. We want to know what type that we need to action.
00:44:35
Speaker
And then in our clinic specifically, we use, we do protocols, same as the gut. We're going to have a protocol on how we support this. Obviously, we want to eradicate the bacteria. we want to balance the pH and support the probiotics.
00:44:50
Speaker
So we will use those strain-specific probiotics, which is so important. We won't put our clients just on a broad spectrum. They need that specific lactobacillus. We will also use personalized creams, like vaginal creams that our clients apply. And the reason that the personalized part is so important is because When we do that vaginal microbiome test, we know that there are going to be so many different bacterias that can come up. So we need to use targeted herbs for those specific ones.
00:45:20
Speaker
If you are somebody who has candida versus Gardnerella overgrowth, they're going to be completely different in the way that you treat them. So we'll always provide our clients with that personalized. Also, even though we are using natural supports they can still be harmful so it's really important to make sure that you don't self-prescribe we know that enterococcus really doesn't love some specific herbs that we would use in somebody who doesn't have that enterococcus bacteria you' sorry we also use vaginal sprays as well to really support not only the bacteria but we really want to work on that mucosa health as well
00:45:59
Speaker
So that's how we support our clients. And then obviously change that ongoing in preconception, fertility, or depending on age or if they're pregnant, et cetera, there's always going to be different fluctuations, but that's how we.
00:46:14
Speaker
Personalized care is definitely what it's all about. And that's how we get the best results. And the amount of times I've seen those vaginal sprays and creams work amazingly and help support women on their fertility journey. I know it's so special. So yes, we, it definitely takes extra time doing everything personalized in the clinic and in the dispensary, making formulations up and making sure that they're made and sent out, but it's so worth it. It is so worth it.
00:46:41
Speaker
So cool as well. Like I've worked with clients on vaginal microbiome and they've come in six months before they even want to try to fall pregnant and they say, look, I've had this ongoing for a long time. Can we get this sorted so that when I'm ready to try, everything's all good?
00:46:55
Speaker
So being able to work with clients in their pre-preconception, then their preconception, and then in their pregnancy is so great because I think I think it's really rewarding for the client to know that they made the right choice in coming in so early for that. So prevention is key.
00:47:12
Speaker
Prevention is key. Come in early. Like we love to see our clients, like six months is a sweet spot at the latest four months, three, if we're really pushing it. But anytime early, if you've got a lot of hormonal conditions like PCOS, endometriosis, come in earlier. It could be a year before that we can at least get some things in place and then maintenance. And then when you're ready to,
00:47:34
Speaker
you know, start trying. Everything's working and ready. So yes, we can't wait to help you. Please visit us on, you can visit our website, which is www.mungbeanhealth.com.
00:47:46
Speaker
We have our TikTok now, which is M-U-N-G-B-E-A-N, so mungbean underscore health. And our Instagram is the same, mungbean underscore health. and And yeah, we can't wait to help you. Emily is seeing clients in clinic. So please DM us, send us an email, whatever you like, if you want to get in with Emily.
00:48:07
Speaker
I would love to help. And and yeah, I clearly love this topic. So just would love to explain all this to you, but in a personalized way. Yes. Anyone will be lucky to have you.
00:48:18
Speaker
but so yeah, can't wait to hear from you. We'll have her back on for sure because she's amazing. Thank you so much. Go enjoy your matcha. one Bye guys.
00:48:35
Speaker
And that's a wrap on today's dose of wellness. I'm Rhiannon, your fertility fairy godmother. Thank you for joining us. Stay connected with us on Instagram at mungbin underscore health.
00:48:47
Speaker
Bye.
00:48:55
Speaker
bye