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Constantine
157 Plays4 years ago
When Constantine starring Keanu Reeves came out, fans of the character were pissed because of how different it was from the comics. But in retrospect, it's actually a pretty damn good movie. We talk Keanu's career, Derrick's thoughts on Shia LaBeouf, and Peter Stormare's take on Lucifer.
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Transcript
Promotion with Audible
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, Derek, guess what? Hit me with it. We just got a promotion with Audible. Audible, fantastic. I love Audible. Do you know what the cool thing about this deal is? What's that? If our listeners go to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod, they get a free trial with Audible. And do you know what they get with that?
00:00:22
Speaker
What do they get with that? Tell me. They get one free audiobook of their choice and they get two free Audible Originals, which is special content that Audible makes available free for all its subscribers. Are you kidding me? That deal is so good I may go myself and sign them. Do you think they let you keep the books after you're done?
00:00:42
Speaker
No, you're not gonna tell me they let you keep the books after you're done. Yes, in fact, you can go sign up for a trial and you can cancel before the trial ends and you get to keep the books you've already downloaded.
00:00:55
Speaker
Well, I don't see how you can beat that with a stick. Exactly, yeah. And you can, lots of great books, especially for fans of the show. You can listen to Super Gods by Grant Morrison, which is all about like how the superhero comics have changed and evolved over time. Or you can check out Marvel Comics, The Untold Story. Which is a terrific book. I have that both in hardcover and I listened to that on Audible myself in my car while traveling back and forth.
00:01:21
Speaker
And there's also another similar book that's called Slugfest, which is about like the wars between Marvel and DC Comics. Oh, okay. So that's another one you got to check out too. So yeah, head on over to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod and start your free trial right now. You got one free audio book and two free audible originals and you can keep them even if you cancel before it's over.
Constantine's Childhood and Suicide Attempt
00:02:06
Speaker
When I was a kid, I could see things. Things humans aren't supposed to see. Things you shouldn't have to see. My parents were normal.
00:02:37
Speaker
They did what most parents would do. They made it worse. You think you're crazy long enough to find a way out. You tried to kill yourself. I didn't try anything. Officially, I was dead for two minutes. But when you cross over, time stops.
00:03:08
Speaker
Take it from me. Two minutes in hell is a lifetime. When I came back, I knew all the things I could see were real. Heaven and hell are right here. Behind every wall, every window. The world behind the world. And we're smack in the middle.
00:03:34
Speaker
Angels and demons can't cross over onto our plane. So instead, we get what I call half-breeds. The influence peddlers. They can only whisper in our ears when a single word could give you courage or turn your favorite pleasure into your worst nightmare. Those with a demon's touch. Like those part-angel living alongside us. They call it the balance.
00:04:05
Speaker
I call it hypocritical bullshit. So when a half-breed breaks the rules, I deport their sorry ass straight back to hell. I don't get them all, but... I've been hoping to get enough to ensure my... retirement. I don't understand.
00:04:31
Speaker
I'm a suicide, Angela. When I die, the rules say I've got just one place to go. You're trying to buy your way into heaven. What would you do if you were sentenced to a prison half the inmates were put there by you? I guess God has a plan for all of us. God's a kid with an ant farm lady. He's not planning anything.
Comic Adaptations and Fan Reactions
00:04:54
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I am half of your host, Perry Constantine.
00:05:00
Speaker
And as always, I am the other half, Derek Ferguson. How are you doing today, Derek? I'm doing quite well. Thank you very much. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing okay, but you know what? 2020, man, it just keeps kicking our asses because since the last time we spoke, you know, Ruth Bader Ginsburg died now, the notorious RBG. Oh, yeah. You know what? And I've said this in a couple of Facebook groups that, you know,
00:05:26
Speaker
And it has to be said, I'm sorry, you know, may God forgive me, but you know what? The wrong people are dying this year. Oh, hell yeah. Definitely. You know, I'm sorry. I'm at that point that that's how I feel. The wrong people are dying, quite frankly. Yeah. It was buttressed with some other good news because we got the WandaVision trailer for, which is coming in December, it looks like.
00:05:51
Speaker
And you know what, I can't think, you know what, again, and we've had this conversation before and we've had this conversation in private and on here about comic book fans. This is something that comic book fans, you figure that they would get behind and say, oh shit, good. I read a lot of complaining online from people about it. I could not understand it because I saw the thing and I was blown away. Well, first I saw the trailer and I was blown away by what I was watching.
00:06:17
Speaker
And then I go online and I'm thinking like, oh, everybody's gonna be loving this. And then there are people complaining about it. Like, I don't get, what do you guys want? Exactly. Which is why I've said before, and I keep on saying it, you can't give the fans what they want. Because the fans don't know what, and the fans will always assess where you got to make it for the fans. You got to make it for the fans. Well, we're the ones that say, yeah, but you have no idea what you want.
DC's Continuity Challenges
00:06:43
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, I saw this, because this was a discussion on the, because you made a, you made a post sharing, I think it was Jerry Conway's comments. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, which is something I've been saying for a while, right? He was saying that, you know what, you should have like, you know, different lines, you know, have like a line that's for kids, have like a line for adults that's like more prestigious, and just do it in graphic novels, stop trying to, you know,
00:07:07
Speaker
recapture the magic of like the 1960s, which, you know, makes a lot of sense. And I've been arguing for something like that for a long time, right? What you have. And I fully agree with you. I think that the day of the single issue comic book is just about over. Right. And it's like you and I have talked about this before, too. Like there are lots of, you know, particularly with DC Comics, there's a lot of really like some of the best DC stories are not tied to any continuity.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. You've got All-Star Superman, The Dark Knight Returns, all this stuff that doesn't have any connection to continuity. And they're amazing. So you don't need to have really the continuity crutch as much as you used to. You can just do these standalone things that come out. Or even more modern examples, like the
00:07:57
Speaker
the Batman and Spider-Man video games, right? Those are not, those have continuity elements in it, right? They reference things that have happened in the comics, but you can't slot them into one part of like DC or Marvel continuity. And it works fine. I mean, I just think that at this point, if you have a creative team that comes along, let's say like you and I go
00:08:22
Speaker
to DC and say, OK, well, we've got a great idea for a John Constantine graphic novel.
Marvel's Diversity Efforts
00:08:28
Speaker
And they should say, OK, well, go ahead and do it. Just go ahead and do what you want. Or we can say to them, well, you know what? Maybe we'd like to do like a 12-issue limited series. And they say, you know what? Fine. Go ahead and do it. There was a long time ago, I remember Marvel was doing, had this line of like, they had a deal with some book publisher. And they did a whole bunch of novels based on their characters.
00:08:52
Speaker
There was an X-Men trilogy called Mutant Empire, and it was really good, but it had no, you couldn't slot it in anywhere in the comic books, but it was a really good story, and it worked fine. Right, yeah. I mean, they should just, you know, just let creators come on and just do whatever story that they wanted to tell, especially with DC, because I think that as we've seen, this thing with just rebooting the DC universe every five years, it's simply not working.
00:09:21
Speaker
And all it's just doing is just confusing a lot of people. The DC continuity, frankly, I have been able to make heads and tails of it since hyper time. And that's been what, like 20 years ago? Oh, probably like 30 years now. Yeah, hyper time. Yeah, I have been able to make sense of it since then. And I mean, like every five years. You know, oh, well, the new 52. And now it's this. Now it's... I'm sorry, but I don't know.
00:09:52
Speaker
It's just not working for me. And there is nothing that Marvel and DC is doing to induce me to pick up any of their new books.
Criticism of 'Woke' Culture
00:10:00
Speaker
Or if I do pick them up, I'll do something like I'll do it on the cheek that I'll get it. And I'll get like the digital version. Yeah, this way I don't feel so much like a sucker for paying the money, you know? Well, I mean, I saw, it's funny because I saw people saying like, oh, well, you know, they should, um,
00:10:21
Speaker
They're changing too much. And we've talked about this before. If you give the fans what they say they want, it's never going to be what they want. Of course not. Because we've seen this happen. When Marvel and DC, they're doing nostalgia stuff. They're trying to recapture. They're trying to give the old time fans what they think they want.
00:10:42
Speaker
then all of a sudden it becomes, oh, why are you doing all this, you know, why are you just doing the nostalgia thing? Give us something new, give us something new. So, you know, they change things up, right? Marvel does the, they have Sam Wilson becoming Captain America, Jane Foster becomes Thor. You get new characters like, you know, Ms. Marvel introduced. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, why are you changing everything? Why are you changing everything? Give us, go back to the things everybody knows.
00:11:11
Speaker
And not to mention, you have the racists and the misogynists. They come out of the woodwork because they hate black characters and they hate female characters. Yeah. Yeah. So now they start this whole movement like, oh, well, they hate this woke culture that is taking over comics or, you know, the social justice warriors, everything like that.
00:11:35
Speaker
They just, you know what? They just hate just the behavior, period. They don't even know why they hate it. They just hate it. You know what? I hate it. Can we just put a moratorium on the word woke? Oh, yes. It's like, everybody who uses it is an asshole. Two words that I don't, well, actually it's three words.
00:11:59
Speaker
I don't want to hear woke anymore, and I don't want to hear toxic masculinity anymore. It's either people who are patting themselves on the back for being woke, or it's people who are using it as an excuse to be racist and sexist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, unfortunately, it's one of those phrases
00:12:21
Speaker
that got picked up by everybody. And as a consequence, it got beaten to death so much that now it means nothing, which is a change because it didn't mean something at one time. But of course, like so many other things that the internet get told of, it just beats it to death. It beats it into the ground, into submission, and now
00:12:45
Speaker
The word itself to me is toxic. So as soon as somebody tells me that they're woke, I run the other way. Quite frankly, I do, I run the other way. Okay, goodbye. Yeah, all right. Which is very funny because just the other, what was it last weekend? Patricia and I watched this
Historical Representation in Black Adam
00:13:08
Speaker
TV series of Hulu that's called Woke.
00:13:11
Speaker
Oh really? Oh I think I've seen that on the previews, like when they show you what's new or something. It's about a cartoonist, a black cartoonist, and one day he's putting up flyers because he's got like this comic strip that's about to break into the big time. We're supposed to go into syndication and talking to
00:13:31
Speaker
and he's talking to animators and stuff like that. And he gets jumped by the cops because of course he quote unquote fits the description of a guy that they're looking for. And as a result, he's traumatized so that now he's thinking that inanimate objects are talking to him. And they're voiced by famous comedians like Eddie Griffin, you know, who is it? Keith David, he does a voice
00:14:00
Speaker
J.B. Smoove does the voice of the pen that he draws with. So, yeah. I mean, I wasn't bowled over by it, but it's interesting. And for anybody out there who has Hulu, if you've been wondering about it, yeah, I would suggest that, you know, you sit down and check it out. Give it the first three episodes. Do what I do, because I give any new show I watch three episodes. And if it hasn't grabbed you by then, go ahead and watch something else. Go watch it right here.
00:14:26
Speaker
Okay, yeah, I'll give it a try. Oh, here's something interesting. I just saw this pop up on Twitter. Looks like, so Black Adam, the movie that's starring Dwayne Johnson, they're gonna have some Justice Society characters in it. And it looks like during the fandom, they confirmed that Hawkman, Adam Smasher, Dr. Fate and Cyclone.
00:14:51
Speaker
will be in the movie. And they just cast Hawkman and it's gonna be Aldous Hodge from Straight Outta Compton and Leverage is gonna be playing Hawkman. Yeah. Which I think makes a lot of sense because you're talking about this guy from ancient Egypt, it makes sense that he'd be a black guy. Well, yeah, I mean, we've been indoctrinated so much by films and TV that, okay, well,
00:15:18
Speaker
the Egyptians were white people. With some people, I'm sure that we're going to hear again from the people that we were just talking about. They're going to say, oh, see, here we go with this politically correct shit shoved down our throat. Well, it's not politically correct. Oh, it's historically accurate. Yeah, it's historically accurate. Egyptians were not white people. I'm sorry. Listen, don't yell at me. Pick up a history book once in a while. Do your research.
Henry Cavill Superman Rumors
00:15:49
Speaker
And there's also, so I don't know if this is confirmed yet, but apparently the rumor is that Henry Cavill is going to be signing on to do three more movies for Warner Brothers, you know, as Superman. Yeah, I read that a couple of days ago. They're not going to be, some people of course didn't read the actual article, you know, which to me, you know what, I'm just going to stop posting shit on Facebook because it doesn't make any sense to post articles. The people never read the articles anyway.
00:16:19
Speaker
Some people thought that this was three new Superman movies. No, he will be appearing as Superman in other movies that they're making. That's what it is. And even that, it hasn't been confirmed either. No, it hasn't been confirmed. You know what? Nothing has, okay, we're having so many rumors thrown around at us these
Peacemaker Casting Speculation
00:16:43
Speaker
days. What people have to do, here's what I do.
00:16:47
Speaker
Anytime I read an article, I have a list of like three to five websites that I trust implicitly. And I go and I verify it with them. Yeah. You know, that's the only way to do it because there's so much that gets thrown out, like this thing with John Cena, you know, playing the peacemaker. Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw that as well. Now, now, OK. And again, how come the fans aren't going crazy screaming about spoilers, spoilers?
00:17:16
Speaker
Because apparently, if he's going to have a TV, well, maybe not. Maybe it might be before school. Yeah, it could be like a pretty cool thing. It could be before school, but I don't think so. I don't get the impression anyway. So yeah, so I sort of think they're going to have, you know, they're giving him a TV series, a very obscure character I might add. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:38
Speaker
Wasn't he one of those characters that DC acquired, like, one of the Charlton characters? He was a Charl... I remember, as a kid, reading, uh, Charlton comics with the Peacemaker in it. Yeah, okay, yeah. Yeah, the Peacemaker, the Question, you know, because, as you know, but some folks out there might not know, the characters from the Watchmen were originally, they were the Charlton characters. Right, yeah. Like, Dr. Manhattan was Captain Adam. Captain Adam, yeah. Yeah, so...
00:18:09
Speaker
So yeah, so all of those characters here, the peacemaker was a guy that he loved peace so much, he was willing to kill for it. Right, he was the comedian analog, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
That's what I thought. But yeah, so that's cool. We're gonna see a live action Hawkman and black Hawkman for a change.
Hawkman's Comic History
00:18:31
Speaker
And then- And I love Hawkman. Hawkman is one of my favorite DC characters. You know, he's one of those characters because he was at a time, when I started getting into comics, that was kind of the time when DC kind of put a moratorium on using him because he had gotten so confusing by that point.
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, so I had never like is at that point because in the post crisis, I believe is then they made that's when they they made him Qatar Hall from like he was an alien from Thanagar and and they did away with the Carter Hall stuff and then
00:19:06
Speaker
And then that had called, gotten really confusing. It's the DC had said, you know, we're not using him, which is why, um, cause Grant Morrison and when he was doing JLA, he wanted to use Hawkman, but DC said, no, we're not using Hawkman. So then he, um, then he created, uh, Zario instead, the angel character. Cause I think what happened was that that was around the time Tim Truman got ahold of Hawkman and he made Katter Hall. He was actually a criminal.
00:19:35
Speaker
who took the identity of Catter Hall and, and Thanagaw was turned into like this very war like race that went around conquering other guys, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a really, and then they brought in the whole reincarnation thing and, and then they gave him the power that, um,
00:19:59
Speaker
What was it? The wings were actual wings that could shrink in his body and there was all kinds of crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Doing with him. And yeah, it was all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah. And then eventually I think it was, it was when Jeff Johns came on, he was able to find me like straighten out all the Hawkman stuff and, you know, make it make sense in some way.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, because he was a character talking about rebooting that day like rebooted him and his origin like five or six times trying to In fact, unless I'm mistaken. They even rebooted He was like the first character that the new 52 rebooted because the first series I think was done by um, unless I'm mistaken I think it was written by rob liefeld and everybody hated it And then after that they like threw it all out and they redid the whole thing Yeah, yeah, it was
00:20:45
Speaker
You know what? Hawkman is a perfect case of them overthinking the character, because when he was first introduced, he was a pretty simple character to get a hold of. He was a space cop.
00:21:00
Speaker
coming to Earth to study our police methods. That was the post-crisis version. Yeah, I'm talking about Hoffman like he was back in the 16th and 17th. I thought that was the 80s and 90s version. Wasn't the 60s and 70s one, wasn't that one the one that had the ancient Egyptian ties? No, you're thinking of the Earth 2 version of Hoffman. You see, there's so many goddamn versions of this character. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
00:21:28
Speaker
Yeah, that was, oh yeah, the Earth 2 version was the reincarnation of an Egyptian prince. Okay, all right. And that was the original one then, right? Because that was from, yeah, yeah. Right, that was the original Hawkman. Then in the 60s he was revamped and had a more science fiction type of origin where him and his wife, they came from the planet Thanagoth.
00:21:50
Speaker
and they were police officers on their world and they can't, don't ask why, why since they have space travel and all these advanced weapons, they came to earth to study our police methods, but that's, you know, that was their story and they were sticking to it. So yeah. And yeah, so they came to earth and you know, oh, because they were chasing a villain that came, um,
00:22:15
Speaker
What was that guy's name? The Shadow Theme. I think it was the Shadow Theme. Right, yeah, yeah. You're right. That came from their world. So yeah, it was a whole... Yeah. So that's what it was. But yeah, the Egyptian guy you're thinking of is the original Hawkman. You know what? I liked how they did it in Legends. It was just very simple. It was easy to understand. Yeah, and there was some...
00:22:38
Speaker
No, you shouldn't have to have a college degree just to be able to sit down and read a damn comic book. I've got a master's degree and I'm confused.
00:22:48
Speaker
I've been reading comic books since I was knee-high to a knee. I remember when they were 15 cents, man. That's how old I am. And if you asked me to explain the continuity of some comic book characters now, you put a gun to my head, I'd tell you to pull the trigger, because I couldn't do it. No. I mean, I could explain, like, if you asked me to explain the Summers family tree from the X-Men, I could do it. But you'll be, your mind will have cracked in the process.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, we'd have to send out the lunch. Yeah, yeah. And dinner. You know that scene from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the conspiracy scene, where he's got all the links between the different photos and everything? Yeah. That's what it would look like if I tried to explain the Summers family trade. Exactly. You know, and I mean, you'd have notebooks, you'd have to be taking notes and everything. Yeah, you know what, it's too complicated. They had a, they used to have a saying,
00:23:47
Speaker
I believe it was back in the 70s. I forget who said it. It might've been Roy Thomas or Marvel or somebody, but it was the saying that, assume that every reader that picks up a comic, that's the first comic book they're picking up. Yeah, that was Stan Lee's mantra. Okay, Stan Lee. Well, actually, yeah. Of course, the master book. But yeah, but assume that every comic book, that's gonna be the first comic book somebody ever picks up and write according. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:17
Speaker
All right. Okay.
Nick Fury Disney+ Series
00:24:19
Speaker
So, I mean, with all that being said, obviously, you know, WandaVision looking amazing. I don't think there's a whole lot of other news other than, you know, the Mandalorians getting, getting season two is coming soon as well. I think it's coming like next month.
00:24:36
Speaker
I just read today, Nick Fury's getting a Disney Plus series. Oh, no, shit. That's awesome. Yeah. Do you know if it's going to be, did they say if it's going to be Sam Jackson or if it's going to be a... Yeah, Sam Jackson. Okay, cool. Yeah, Sam Jackson. Yeah. That'd be awesome, yeah. Yeah, well, I do recall something reading that it was in his contract that
00:24:58
Speaker
He was supposed to get a Nick Fury movie, I thought, you know, maybe I read it wrong, but apparently they're going to go for the TV series. Well, I remember like I remember because because Iron Man, when he did the cameo in Iron Man, like it was he didn't have a contract or anything. He just came in for the day to do that one cameo. And then after that, they they gave him like it was like an unprecedented nine picture deal or something.
00:25:21
Speaker
Right, right. But yeah, but it wasn't necessarily one was, it wasn't necessarily that if Nick Fury movie was guaranteed, it was just for his appearances in the MCU in general. But, but yeah, I'm just looking at the article now. I mean, it's still, you know, it's still not completely confirmed because it says Variety has learned exclusively from sources, but Variety tends to be a lot more reliable than a lot of these, you know, these internet rags.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah, Variety is one of the sources I go to to confirm, like if I read something like, and God forbid, I'm reading it in the first place. If I read something, we got this covered. Yeah. I say, oh, no, bullshit. Until I see it verified in something like Deadline, or Variety, or Collider, one of those guys.
00:26:19
Speaker
who are far more reliable. Yeah, yeah. And it looks like Kyle Bradstreet is attached to write an executive produce. I don't know much about Bradstreet, but oh, he did Mr. Robot. Oh, OK. I saw a few episodes of Mr. Robot, and that was pretty cool. But yeah, that'd be awesome. My wife loved that show. I couldn't figure that thing out to save my life.
00:26:47
Speaker
She would always say, oh, come on to it, man. I said, no, I can't. That show makes my head hurt. That'll be cool. I hope they, you know, I would love to see like, go back to like the, the Stranko stuff where Nick Fury's, you know, actually going on missions and stuff. And we get to see like, get him demoted or something from shield director so we can actually get it, mix it up a little bit. Well, hopefully I would hope that they have,
00:27:17
Speaker
They have the good sense to go back and actually, like you said, show us some mission. Bring Colson back. You know, Melinda May. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because now, because Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is, it's over now, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is. So, yeah, that'd be a great way to bring both of them back. Or also, you know, you had Adrian Palicki, she played Mockingbird on the show. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:45
Speaker
I think she's still busy with, you know, which we'll call it. Now, although I keep hearing rumors that it's been canceled, you know, D'Orville. Oh, that's right. She's on that. I completely forgot about that show. Yeah. I mean, I know it moved from Fox to Hulu. There was some kind of brouhaha. Well, that's probably because Disney bought out Fox's assets. Yeah. I got to catch up on that show then, because I haven't watched it in a minute.
00:28:17
Speaker
It's pretty, you know what, for a show that started out as basically being Star Trek, the next generation fan fiction,
00:28:27
Speaker
You know, over time, it developed into a pretty damn good show where it's more Star Trek than, you know, like some other Star Trek shows. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I saw, I think I saw all of the first season. I really liked it. And I just, I got, I got behind because I was watching it back when it was airing on Hulu, but they only have like the most recent five episodes and like I had missed a few. So they had gone off the service and I was just going to wait until they,
00:28:54
Speaker
they all come up for like the full season. And I just never got around to it. But I did like what I saw. And then what happened was that, what's his name? You know, McFarlane. He got a lot of people working behind the scenes, writers, technical people, you know, a lot of actors who had been on Star Trek were coming on the show and everything like that. And I said to myself, you know what? If I was paramount, I would just say, you know what?
00:29:25
Speaker
retool your show, and we'll put this officially in the Star Trek. Because it is Star Trek, and he does get Star Trek. He does get it. He understands Star Trek. He understands. Because most of those episodes could have been done as the next generation episodes, with just a little tweaking here
John Constantine's Creation and Portrayal Debate
00:29:47
Speaker
and there. Right. It seems like it's a much more laid back version of Next Generation, is kind of the feel I got from it.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, they did do like a lot of comedy in the first season, but I think that they did that because, you know, McFarland, he expected, you know, he figured that people, they expected it of him. But once you got to the second season, there was shows didn't have any comedy in it at all. They were just great science fiction action events. Yeah.
00:30:18
Speaker
Anyway, so you had actually hinted at this earlier today about what we're talking about today and that is the 2005 Constantine starring Keanu Reeves.
00:30:32
Speaker
This was an interesting movie because obviously anyone who knows anything about John Constantine knows that Keanu Reeves looks nothing like the character. I mean, John Constantine, he's from Liverpool. He was drawn to look like Sting because Alan Moore asked his artist who worked on it with him. Let's double check in here.
00:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, he was created by, Alan Moore created him for Swamp Thing, and it was Rick, oh, there was a bunch of people who created it. Alan Moore, Steve Bassett, Rick Veitch, and John Totalbun are all credited as creators. And apparently, yeah, one of them had said like, oh, well, let's, you know, we want him to look like Sting. And so they're like, okay, well, we'll,
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah, Alan Moore created the character after Art Bissette and Total Bond, where fans of the police expressed a desire to draw a character who looked like Sting. So they decided... Yeah, go ahead. No, I'm saying, did they... Because I know that...
00:31:45
Speaker
Fences in the Ultimates. They went to Sam Jackson and asked him, they said, well, we want to draw Nick Fury to look like you. And he said, yeah, sure, go for it. Did they go to, I mean, did they actually go to Sting and say, well, listen, do you mind if we draw this guy to look like you? Or they just said, yeah, screw it. We'll do it. No, no. They didn't ask him. And it was just kind of one of those things. It was kind of like this open secret. They had never really talked about it.
00:32:16
Speaker
But Sting had known about it and he eventually, he wrote, I think they even approached him at one time about playing the character. And he wrote like an introduction to one of the Hellblazer hardcovers or trade paperbacks or something like that. Oh, that was decent. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, there was never like, you know, any sort of, I think, you know, it was one of those things where he looked just enough like,
00:32:44
Speaker
like Sting, but it wasn't like, you know, completely that they could get away with it. Yeah. And, but, but yeah, so that was the, that was the thing about him. And it's funny, Alan Moore, plus, you know, you got to be careful what Alan Moore says, because he's, you know, he's a bit, he's not like Frank Miller crazy, but he does a little bit loopy. But he, he has claimed that he has seen John Constantine in person.
00:33:10
Speaker
I've heard, yeah, I've heard that, yeah. He said he was in Westminster and this was, is that right after they had introduced the character and he was sitting in a sandwich bar and then up the stairs comes John Constantine. He's wearing the trench coat, the same haircut. He looked exactly like Sting. Looked exactly like, not like Sting, but like John Constantine, he said. Says he looked at me, stared me straight in the eyes, smiled, nodded, and then just walked off around the corner to the other part of the snack bar.
00:33:41
Speaker
And then Moore said, I sat there and thought, should I go around that corner and see if he's really there or should I just eat my sandwich and leave? I opted for the latter. I thought it was the safest. And then he also says that in another place, oh yeah, he said, this was a part of a performance art piece. He steps out of the dark and he speaks to me. He whispers, I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. And he could do it.
00:34:13
Speaker
But, but yeah, so he was a john console like he became he's one of those characters that
00:34:21
Speaker
What is your experience with this character? Do you know much about him from the comics?
Constantine's Fanbase and Movie Reception
00:34:27
Speaker
Listen, this is a character I really don't know a whole lot about. I've read a couple of issues of the comic book, but I never really connected with the character like a lot of people have. He has what you call a really rabid, strong following.
00:34:46
Speaker
People really love John Constantine. I know him mainly through this movie and the short-lived TV series that they had on NBC. And that actor went on to appear in Arrow. What's his name? Because this is the guy that everybody pretty much says, yeah, he's John Constantine.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's just double checking, because I've gotten his name wrong several times. I just want to double check. Matt Ryan, that's who plays him. Matt Ryan. Oh, right. Yeah. Because he's even done the voice in a couple of animated. Yeah. Yeah, he's done it. Let's see. Yeah, he was, no.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, he was in Justice League Dark. He was in Constantine City of Demons. And he also did it in Justice League Dark Apocalypse War. And Matt Ryan came back as the voice in all those. And of course, there is a persistent rumor that there is supposed to be a new Constantine TV series on
00:35:55
Speaker
uh um you know the DC part of HBO Max. Well also there's uh yeah there's that and there's also apparently uh JJ Abrams and and Bad Robot are planning to do a Constantine movie as well which might possibly be a sequel to the Keanu Reeves one.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, you know, he is a very popular character. Like I said, people who really love John Constantine, they really love him. My only knowledge of him is, like I said, mostly through the TV series and this movie, which, and I guess that that's why it didn't bother, because I have friends of mine who love John, and they hated this movie. I mean, I have a friend of mine. He wouldn't even go see, he wouldn't even look at this movie.
00:36:45
Speaker
for at least about five, six years. And then finally, so I guess since I don't have that type of relationship with the character, that's how come I watched it and I took it for what it was, a supernatural action adventure movie. Yeah, see, I've come around on this movie because when I saw, because I was a fan of the character from the comics.
Keanu Reeves as Constantine
00:37:10
Speaker
When I was in college, that's when I started getting into the Hellblazer comics and I was reading the,
00:37:15
Speaker
all the different trades, like the Jamie Delano stuff, the Garth Ennis stuff, which is like the gold standard. That was the famous dangerous habit storyline, which a lot of this, the whole cancer subplot, that comes from dangerous habits, where Constantine has died because he smokes so many damn cigarettes all the time.
00:37:39
Speaker
And there's a point in this movie where it said he smokes 30 cigarettes a day. Yeah, you're going to die because you smoke 30 cigarettes a day since you were 15. And he's an interesting character in the DC universe because he was introduced in Swamp Thing and he was part of the main DCU. But then eventually he was
00:38:02
Speaker
he was kind of shifted into his own kind of reality where they had some characters who appeared, like Swamp Thing appeared occasionally, Zatanna appeared occasionally, although never in her fishnet costume, just like in regular street clothes. And whenever characters would appear in the Hellblazer comics, they would just be in like, it's kind of like what they did with with Green Arrow when
00:38:27
Speaker
Mike Groh was doing it. Whenever they had, like, Hal Jordan in it, like, he never appeared as Green Lantern. He always just appeared as Hal. Right, yeah. Yeah, it was that kind of thing, because they're trying to keep it very grounded. And another interesting thing is that, unlike most of the characters, is John Constantine aged in real time in the comics. Oh, okay. See, I did not know that. Okay. Yeah. So, like, he actually, like, there was, there was a, there was a time when he had
00:38:57
Speaker
And like over the, they had one issue, his 35th birthday. And then five years later, they had another issue talking about his 40th birthday. So yeah, he aged in real time. Well, he's basically, okay, well, John Cotton, first of all, he's a human guy. I mean, he doesn't have any superpowers or anything like that. All of his, his thing is that it's his knowledge of the occult and the supernatural, right?
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, he knows how to do spells and stuff like that, but he's not like Dr. Strange, where he's like, you know. No, no. No, he's like, he's a working class magician, basically. Right. Yeah, yeah. He's very much like this, and that's very much tied to the character's creation, right? He's like this very, from this very blue collar area of England and all that. But, and yeah, he's,
00:39:50
Speaker
He's a great character and he's a lot of fun to read about. And just completely different from Keanu Reeves. So when I saw the Keanu Reeves movie, I fucking hated this movie. I mean, I just hated it. In fact, did I ever tell you the story how I kind of predicted John Wick?
00:40:12
Speaker
Oh, okay. So when this movie came out, I was in college and I had my own movie review column in the student newspaper. Okay. So I reviewed this movie and I gave it like this really bad review. Like I've just like, you know, eviscerated it. And then,
00:40:32
Speaker
Not too long after that, we were doing an April Fool's issue where we kind of write like joke articles. So I wrote this article where a pissed off Keanu Reeves had read my review and he comes out to like, revenge kill me and my whole family. Did he succeed? Yeah, yeah. I was writing under a pseudonym. So it was like, you know,
00:40:58
Speaker
You know, the title was like Keanu Reeves Kills Movie Review or something like that. No, you didn't put your own name on it. No, no, no, no, no. I put a fake name on it. Ah, you wussed out. No, that was the point. Because how could I be writing an article about my own murder? Why not? Well, because I mean, it wasn't like any clever suit. It was just my name backwards. Oh, OK. All right. Well, it was part of a joke. It was an obvious joke. Yeah, well, yeah. It was an April Fool's issue. It was an obvious joke.
00:41:28
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, so I wrote this article that basically predicted that Keanu Reeves would one day play a revenge killer. But it's very interesting.
00:41:40
Speaker
And I like what you said about how when you first saw this, you hated it because in doing in my, what I laughingly call research before we do these things, and I came across a curious fact that apparently a lot of John Constantine fans who hated this movie when it first came out, they've kind of turned around and they've actually come to embrace it actually. Yeah, that's what happened to me.
00:42:10
Speaker
Okay. Okay, cool. So elaborate, why do you now embrace a movie that you
00:42:18
Speaker
you freely admitted that you hate it at one time. I don't know you know it was like five or ten years ago or something like that and it was on um I can't remember how I watched it again but someone had been saying like no you gotta you gotta watch it again so I gave it another chance and as I'm re-watching it I'm like oh I'm gonna hate this I'm gonna and I'm just like you know what this is actually not bad this is actually pretty good.
00:42:41
Speaker
And it was just having all that time to get over the fact that they had butchered one of my favorite characters, I was able to just kind of sit back and just enjoy it for what it is. As a John Constantine movie, it's terrible. It is just a terrible adaptation of that character. This is not that John Constantine at all. But as a movie in general, it's pretty damn good.
00:43:10
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, if you just take it just as a supernatural action adventure movie, it's pretty daggone good. And I watched it last night. And again, I watched it again today because I hadn't seen it in such a long time.
Constantine's Adaptation Challenges
00:43:26
Speaker
And I was really amazed that, well, not amazed, but there was a lot of things that was going on in this movie that I said, you know what, I really appreciate it about it.
00:43:39
Speaker
the whole thing that okay you get the feeling that there is a whole other world out there supporting this community of wizards and angels and demons and everything like that you know there's not a lot that's explained but there's a lot that's implied and we pick it up like in the beginning i love how
00:44:01
Speaker
John Constantine, he comes in and he exercises the demon from the girl. Now, the thing I like about this, you know how usually you will get that thing in these supernatural movies where the exorcist, he'll come in. Exorcist, oh, you're crazy. Demons don't exist. These people know John Constantine. They know this world exists. And when he asked them to do something, they do it. Like he says, oh, go get the mirror. They just go get the mirror and bring it.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah yeah and you know yeah so I mean they know who he is and they know what he's about and I like it just in that scene it implies and lets you know yeah there's a larger world that's going on here and he's known in this world. Yeah a lot of what happens in this movie like the way they depict the world a lot of this was you know used as as influence for me when I was creating my Luther Cross character and the whole world he inhabits
00:44:53
Speaker
Funny you should say that, because I was watching this movie, and there was a character played by Jimon Hanzu. Yeah, Papa Midnight. You know, Midnight. And I was thinking, I said, I was wondering, I said, did Perry get... Nah, he didn't. Nah. Yeah, but... Well, yeah, that whole thing where the nightclub idea, that was kind of inspired by Papa Midnight.
00:45:21
Speaker
But I could definitely in watching this movie. Yeah, I could definitely see the influence. Yeah. On your own character. Yeah. Yeah, there's a definite influence and you know what this movie could have also been a lot worse because
00:45:37
Speaker
In 2001, Tarsum Singh was attached to direct. And do you know who was attached to play Nicholas? Well, I just gave it away. Nicholas Cage was attached to play John Constantine in that version. Nicholas Cage is attached to play everybody. But Singh ended up dropping out. He said, like, I could not have made that movie with Cage. And then after that, Cage dropped out. And then Keanu Reeves came involved. And then Francis Lawrence became involved as the director.
00:46:06
Speaker
Now, apparently, the script for this movie, the screenwriter had originally written it with Jon Constein being British, like in the comics, but nobody was interested. So then he just changed him to American, and then suddenly everybody was interested in the movie. Very interesting. Yeah.
00:46:31
Speaker
But yeah, and it's like, there's still some issues I have with it, even watching it now years later and coming around to it. I still think one of the biggest failings of the movie is the reasoning for why Constantine is going to hell.
00:46:45
Speaker
because it never sits right. Because they're building up to this whole thing about how she says, you're going to hell because of the life you've lived. And you get the feeling, he's going to hell because he's a bastard, which is how it was in the comic books. He's reckless. A lot of his friends have been killed by his actions.
00:47:10
Speaker
One of the first, him and his friends, when they were younger, they were dabbling in magic and he ended up getting a little group dragged down to hell, basically. And that's why his soul is destined for hell. But in this,
00:47:25
Speaker
They build up to all that and then he's explaining to Angela, played by racial whites, that I'm going to hell because I committed suicide when I was a teenager because I couldn't stand seeing all the visions of demons. Yeah, that's pretty much a plot device.
00:47:47
Speaker
so that we get to see where he proves he's not such a bad guy and he redeems himself. Yeah, but I kind of prefer the way that you just said that, you know, he's just a bit of a bastard. Yeah. And that's why he's going to hell instead of the whole, you know, well, I've got cancer and, you know, yeah, yeah. And I committed suicide and, you know, it's...
00:48:14
Speaker
Okay, to me there's a lot of stuff in there that's thrown in there that we really actually didn't need. Although I must say that I did like the cigarette smoking thing because Keanu Reeves is the only actor in the world who can use a cigarette lighter as a prop so successfully. I'll do you one better. George Clooney and out of sight.
00:48:36
Speaker
Oh, okay, I've never seen Out of Sight. You've never seen Out of Sight with George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez? Believe it or not, there's a lot of movies I haven't seen. I'm amazed you haven't seen Out of Sight because that was based on the Elmore Leonard novel.
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah, but you know what? I'm not that much of a Jennifer Lopez fan. Oh, you got to see it out of sight. She's good in that. The only reason that I would want to watch it is because I know that the character Michael Keaton plays in there is the same one from Jackie Brown. Yeah, yeah, Ray Nicolette. Yeah, you got to see. That's your homework assignment for this weekend. You got to watch out of sight. Trust me, you will like it. Yes, sir. I will watch it this weekend. Yeah, I've never seen it.
Jennifer Lopez's Film Career
00:49:19
Speaker
Never seen it.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. It's got, you know, George Clooney. It's just like, you know, just like Ed is George Clooney ist. And then you got Don Cheadle in there who's really who's plays a really awesome character as well. Plus, it's directed by Steven Soderbergh. Oh, okay. And for you Jennifer Lopez fans out there, listen, I got nothing against Jennifer Lopez. Really, it's just that I
00:49:46
Speaker
Her music and her acting really, you know. There's only a few things I've liked her in. I liked her in Out of Sight and I liked her in The Cell, surprisingly. Yeah, I liked her in The Cell. Yeah. And there was a movie that she made with Jacqueline Nicholson and Michael Caine. It was like a Hitchcockian type of suspense. Oh, no, no, that was something different. They were like rival wine merchants or something like that. Oh, OK.
00:50:16
Speaker
and she was in the middle of it. Yeah, I mean, there's been a couple of things that she's been in that I like, but usually that's because of other things that are like, I didn't like to sell just because Jennifer Lopez was in it. Oh, you know what else? I also liked her in U-Turn. Never seen U-Turn. U-Turn, that was like this kind of like Neo-Nor film. Oliver Stone directed it and had like Sean Penn and Billy Bob Thornton.
00:50:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, I've never seen it. That was a pretty good movie, too. And what was it? Was it last year or the year before? Patricia and I were watching, she had a TV series that was on. Briefly, it only lasted like two or three seasons. I think that she finally, you know, like the stress of doing a TV series got too much for her. I'm seeing good trouble.
00:51:05
Speaker
World Dance, Shades of Blue, there's a few bunch of stuff. Shades of Blue, that was the series. Okay, yeah, 36 episodes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was pretty good. Okay, okay. I think I heard about this show. As a matter of fact, one day me and Patricia, we were driving home and they were filming an episode right down the block from us. They did a lot of locations, yeah, did a lot of location shooting here, right in Brooklyn. Yeah.
00:51:32
Speaker
But yeah, that whole, taking it back to this way, that whole suicide thing, it just felt like they're trying too much to force Catholic dogma on the movie, which is kind of weird because this movie goes so against traditional religious dogma that I didn't really understand why they were trying to force that one point.
Catholic Dogma in Film
00:51:50
Speaker
It just seemed like the producers were getting cold feet about making their hero a bastard who's going to hell. So they had to find some loophole.
00:51:59
Speaker
They had that really weird scene and the statue in it was such a prevalent element in that scene. I thought it was going to be used in some kind of way when they're on the street and all the lights start going out and the demons, they attack them. And John Constantine, he reps that rag or something like that.
00:52:23
Speaker
he wraps it around his hand and he sets it ablaze and it's a light that comes and it kills all the demons. Yeah, that was apparently a piece of the Shroud of Moses or something. Yeah, but they're standing in front of this religious store and there's a statue of a saint or something like that. But that statue is such a prominent part of that scene. Visually, I thought it was going to be incorporated into
00:52:51
Speaker
It's some way. And I just thought it was kind of weird. I said, well, why do you make such a big deal about the statue. If you're not going to use it. Yeah, so I get what you mean. Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, they stray into like, you know, I don't know. They seem to want to have it both ways. They want you to have the Catholic stuff.
00:53:10
Speaker
like be right in your face and then like they pull away sometimes and they like completely forget about it and they bring in other stuff. Yeah so yeah I get what you mean. Yeah and the character is also just in general the character of John Consine has that reminded me that he's he's been influenced
00:53:29
Speaker
he's influenced so many other characters too. Like I mentioned, he was an influence in my character, but also, you know, even in supernatural, right? When you look at Castiel, the angel in supernatural, his look, like he dresses just like John Constantine. And that was inspired by John Constantine. And there are a few other ones, like in,
00:53:56
Speaker
In the Marvel universe, Doctor Strange and Hellstorm are talking in a bar, and Hellstorm talks about his associate, who describes his associate, a Brit who smokes like a fiend. So he's been referenced in all these other different things as well. Also, obviously, Warren Ellis has created lots of other characters, like Pete Wisdom over in Marvel Comics. John Constantine, if he was a mutant, basically.
00:54:23
Speaker
Oh, right. Yeah, exactly. I've heard him. That's exactly how I've heard him described. Yeah. If John Constantine was a mutant. Yeah, repeat wisdom. And, you know, it's weird that they went with the, they had to go force that suicide route because
00:54:39
Speaker
Keanu Reeves doesn't play Constantine as a nice guy.
Keanu Reeves' Film Career
00:54:42
Speaker
Like, to his credit, he plays him as a bastard. No, he doesn't. Yeah, he does not play him as a nice guy at all. And can I just say here, just for the record, that I like Keanu Reeves. I do. I have never understood the hate for him. You know, we've discussed this before in the last episode. I think we were talking about it briefly. I've never understood the hatred for Keanu Reeves because, first of all,
00:55:09
Speaker
He never seems to me to be a guy that's phoning it in. He comes in and does what he does. No, he's no Laurence Olivier, not by any stretch of the imagination, but he comes in and he sells you or whatever character he's playing, he sells that character. I think a big problem is just like a lot of these kind of low budget, not low budget, but just like these kind of like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, I don't want to say sub par, but like,
00:55:38
Speaker
Nothing exciting, nothing really special about a lot of these movies he did in the 90s. Like, you know, he did, you know, Point Break was awesome. Bill and Ted movies were awesome, but then he did like, you know, Dracula, which, you know, it was kind of like meh. Speed, which is fun, but isn't really anything that special. Johnny Mnemonic, Chain Reaction. And just all these little movies that don't really
00:56:03
Speaker
didn't really hit at all, like there's nothing really special about him. I mean, Devil's Advocate is another movie that's become kind of a cult classic, but back at the time, nobody really liked it. And then he did The Matrix, but
00:56:20
Speaker
Like the Matrix even, he's not really, he doesn't really stand out in the Matrix. Like nobody watches the movie thinking like, oh, Keanu Reeves is awesome in this. They're watching it more like, oh, the ideas are awesome or Lawrence Fishburne is awesome. But, you know.
00:56:36
Speaker
I mean, listen, let's face it, in the roles of Trinity and Neo, you could have had anybody playing those roles, really. Yeah, yeah. You really could have. It really didn't matter who was playing those roles. And, you know, I've seen The Matrix and
00:56:54
Speaker
People always say, well, how can you not like The Matrix? The Matrix is fantastic. I said, well, apparently you have not watched any Hong Kong movies because The Matrix did not do anything that Hong Kong action movies hadn't been doing for, you know, 15, 20 years before it came out. I mean, there's not a single original thing.
00:57:12
Speaker
in The Matrix, if you've been reading enough science fiction and comic books and going to movies. There's more originality in Speed Racer, which I tell everybody, that's the Wachowski movie you ought to see. Speed Racer, there's more originality in that one movie than there is in all three Matrix movies. Oh, absolutely. I digress. Yeah. I always tell people, if you've
00:57:38
Speaker
If you read the first three volumes of The Invisibles, you've read The Matrix. Right. Yeah. That's exactly. And in fact, Grant Morrison even criticized the Wachowskis after when the sequels came out. He said, you know what? They should have just waited and kept ripping me off. Oh. Didn't he suit him at one time? Didn't he take some kind of legal action? There was. I don't know if he brought any, I think, I don't know if he brought any legal action.
00:58:09
Speaker
I'm trying to find... I don't know if he actually, he was pissed about it. I remember him being pissed about it and him talking about it in interviews. And then eventually later he kind of came around and he kind of made peace with the movie. But I don't think he had ever actually brought a lawsuit against it.
00:58:33
Speaker
I mean, like, even now today, if I watch The Matrix, usually, like, I'll zone out until, like, one of the action sequences come on, and then I'll pay attention. Like, I think it's in the second one. They have that extended chase fight sequence that's on the train.
00:58:48
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I mean, listen, the movie's got some great action sequences. But as far as the story, I mean, forget about the acting. Yeah, yeah. But it's got great action sequences. And I was really surprised that, well, not really, given the recent popularity of Keanu in the John Wick movies that, apparently, they're making a Matrix 4. Yeah, yeah.
00:59:16
Speaker
But no, I can't, I couldn't, I just tried to look up. I couldn't find anything about Morrison actually bringing a lawsuit against The Matrix. Probably because he was working at DC at the time, so. Yeah, yeah. But now he's apparently going to be getting, like apparently they're going to be, there's going to be, the Invisibles is going to be adapted anyway, so. So he's finally going to get that done. But yeah, like this was just during that time when
00:59:43
Speaker
Keanu Reeves wasn't really standing out in anything. And I think that's a lot of the problem is that everyone had kind of developed this idea about him as just being this kind of like, you know, surfer bro, you know, aloof type character all the time. And that's all we could do.
01:00:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah, because he got a lot of feedback, I mean, for Dracula. Yeah. And see me, I never subscribe to this thing where people will say, oh, well, his performance sunk the whole movie. Well, you know what? If one performance can sink an entire movie, then the movie must not be very good, period. Yeah. Plus, when you're a young actor and you're going up against Gary Oldman,
01:00:33
Speaker
That's gonna create, you're gonna be, that's gonna create a bit of a difference there. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm never, I mean.
01:00:44
Speaker
Plus also, what Reeves also is he cannot do accents. Like he couldn't do it in Dracula. He couldn't do the English accent in Dracula. He couldn't do it. He couldn't do the southern accent in Devil's Advocate. So they were actually, it was smart that they didn't try to make him British in this because he would not have been able to pull that accent off.
01:01:05
Speaker
Well, yeah, exactly. That's where I figured that. You know what? He said, you know what? I'll just be American. I'll just play myself. And that's it. And yeah, that's the smart thing. If you can't do an accent, then don't do it. It's just that simple. And you know what? I will admit, I was also guilty of falling into that perception of Reeves around this time, too. And it wasn't until probably a Scanner Darkly, which came out about a year after this, that I started to come out of this. And he also did this action thriller called Street Kings.
01:01:35
Speaker
Did you ever see that? No, it doesn't sound familiar. It was directed by David Ayer. It had Reeves, Forest Whitaker was in it, and Hugh Laurie, Chris Evans, and Common. But yeah, it was like this LA cop movie. And Spike Lee was originally supposed to direct it, but he ended up dropping out or something like that.
01:02:03
Speaker
It got a bad response. It got like 36% on Rotten Tomatoes. But I thought it was an enjoyable action film. OK. Now, see, I've never even heard of it. So I'm going to have to check that one out. I got to watch it because I haven't seen it in like 10 years. OK. I have seen Keanu Reeves in, what was it, River's Edge.
01:02:30
Speaker
you know, Bill and Ted, next one to the adventure, of course. My own private Idaho, Dracula, Much Ado About Nothing with Denzel Washington. Speed, of course. Speed, Johnny Mnemonic, which I actually like a lot. I like that. I don't think I really became like a fan of his.
01:02:53
Speaker
until I saw him, like you said, in A Scan of Darkly, and he did like a romance movie called The Lake House. Right, yeah, yeah. That my wife dragged me to, but however, I ended up enjoying it because it had this time travel.
01:03:08
Speaker
uh plot in it that I mean the trailer didn't give away and finally I saw a trailer that did not give away the plot of the movie so there was a time travel element to that movie that made me sit up and pay more attention to it but yeah I really did I really didn't get into Keanu Reeves and became like a fan of his until a Scanner Donkley you know yeah yeah um also he apparently he directed The Man of Tai Chi
01:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I liked that. And then 47 Ronin, which both you and I have agreed that, you know, yeah, I mean, a lot of people hated that. I thought it was pretty good. Yeah, I liked that movie too. And then, yeah, and then with John Wick, that was just when he like kind of broke out and started having this Renaissance. And then he started doing these movies where he was
01:03:56
Speaker
you know, kind of embracing like his pop culture aspect, like in the movie Keanu, directed by, that was with Key and Peele. Yeah, Key and Peele. And he voices the cat in one scene. Yeah. And then he was also, and then I mentioned, you know, him being in Always Be My Maybe, where he plays like this really hilarious version of himself.
01:04:20
Speaker
Well, again, like I said in the last episode, from everything I've read and I've heard that calories is pretty much a down-to-earth guy. And he doesn't take this whole Hollywood acting thing too seriously. He gives off the impression in his interviews, stuff like that, that he realizes he gets paid a shitload of money to basically just go and play pretend.
01:04:43
Speaker
and he understands that and he lives his life accordingly.
Reeves as Constantine: Praise and Critique
01:04:48
Speaker
But he seems to be a genuinely nice guy. That's how I've always heard people describe him as. And I like the fact he doesn't take himself too seriously. I kind of like that aspect of it. So yeah, like I said, I've never understood
01:05:06
Speaker
You know, apparently a lot of people don't like him just because he's Keanu Reeves. Yeah. Yeah. But I really liked him. And I really liked him in this movie. I hadn't seen it for a while. But again, like I always say, you know, I start out sitting there getting ready to take notes and everything like that. And about like 30 minutes into the movie, you know, I'm into the movie. I'm paying attention to the plot. You know, I'm saying, oh, shit, this is pretty good. You know, and I'm actually watching it.
01:05:34
Speaker
Yeah. And just, and he, like a lot of people have, you know, talked about his, you know, talking about his performance and he was, this was the period when he was doing kind of like the Neo thing all the time. But this is one of those movies where he wasn't. Like he, like re-watched this, I was like, oh, you know, he really is, you know, he's pretty good at being like this kind of cynical badass type of character.
01:05:56
Speaker
There's actually a performance here. Watch this, you know, especially in the scenes with Rachel Weisz and what's her name? You know, she plays the angel. Oh, Tilda Swinton. Yeah, Tilda Swinton. Yeah, you know, I mean, there's
01:06:13
Speaker
You know, these are two different female actors and he responds to them differently. Yeah, you know, it's not like he's playing the same note with everybody. Every character he meets in the movie and every character that he encounters
01:06:29
Speaker
He does play different notes with them. It's subtle, but if you're paying attention, it's that he doesn't treat every character in this movie the same way. They are all on different levels as far as his relationship with them goes.
Shia LaBeouf's Role in Constantine
01:06:43
Speaker
He doesn't talk to anybody. He doesn't talk to Rachel White the same way that he talks to midnight. He doesn't talk to Shia LaBeouf, may he burn in hell, Petouille, the same way that he talks to Tilda Swinton.
01:06:57
Speaker
Yeah, and you gotta toss something out there, you gotta go back with it. What was that about Shia LaBeouf? Me he burned it out. Well, you're gonna hate, did you see the post credit scene in this movie? Yes, I did.
01:07:21
Speaker
You know, Shyla, okay, I know I said earlier that, you know, that if one performance can ruin a movie, then it must not be a good movie. But Shyla both does his best. Matter of fact, he's so bad that they actually forget his character is in this movie for long periods of time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are periods in this movie where he just disappears. There's no explanation where he is, what he's doing.
01:07:49
Speaker
He's just out of the movie, for which I was grateful because when he was on screen, I would just say, oh man, is there some way that we could, I don't know, get rid of this guy or something like that? He brought nothing to the movie. He added nothing to the movie. Now, Shia LaBeouf is a guy that really, when I'm watching the movie that he's in, I honestly do cringe. I'm sorry.
01:08:16
Speaker
I mean, I've heard he's done some in recent years. I've heard he's done a lot of good work. I haven't seen any of it, so I don't know. But I've heard a lot of people say like the stuff he's done since has been really good. Like ever since his was the plagiarism comedy controversy thing that came out. Yeah.
01:08:36
Speaker
And you know what I think happened to him? I think, okay, he knows that every once in a while, Hollywood will fall in love with a certain actor or actress and put them in every movie that they can to try to convince us that we love that actress. Yeah.
01:08:51
Speaker
or actor, that's what he went through. Because there was a period there like you couldn't turn around without going to the movies and seeing Shia LaBeouf. Oh, no. He was in this. He was in the first three Transformers movies. He was in the Indiana Jones 4. And yeah, he was just in a ton of different stuff. He had like had this. Yeah. And I kind of get the feeling that he got kind of burnt out. I mean, you know, behind that. Yeah.
01:09:21
Speaker
Cause he went like kind of crazy there for a while. There was a period like he had this avant-garde period where I think he was like trying so hard to get away from the image that... Because I don't think that Hollywood knew what to do with him. They tried to present him as the next action star. Which I don't know who thought that. I mean...
01:09:50
Speaker
You know, to me, he always looked like a kid playing dress up. Yeah, yeah. You know, he never looked like, and he looked so out of place in the Indiana Jones movie, in a role that actually should have been played by the guy that played Short Round. That's actually who that character should have been. You know, just bringing him out of left field to play Indiana Jones sonless.
01:10:11
Speaker
You know, but again, like I said, that was that period where Hollywood was putting him in everything to try to convince us. Yeah. You love him. You're like, well, no, we don't. They did that with their blonde actress. What's her name? The Australian one. Is that Naomi Watts? No, they have me set. Oh crap. I know what you're talking about. Um, I can't think of her name though.
01:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, but she just went through that period. Because she was in the movies about the acapella singers, and she was in a bunch of comedies. Right, Pitch Perfect, right? Yeah, Pitch Perfect. She was in the Pitch Perfect movie. Rebel Wilson. Rebel Wilson. Rebel Wilson, OK. Yeah. She had a TV series.
01:10:58
Speaker
she had you know yeah so she was going through that period where like yeah they were putting her they put her in everything trying to convince us that we love rebel wilson no we don't love re we kind of like rebel wilson she's okay but we don't love her and it was also weird when she tried to she tried to pull a vanilla ice too where remember when vanilla ice tried to convince everybody he he grew up in the ghetto and everything like that and then it turned out he's like from like some
01:11:23
Speaker
rich-ass white neighborhood and then the same thing she had done the same thing like she claimed that she had um uh she was raised in like a sydney ghetto uh yeah yeah and all this and he found out that she was um she was actually raised like an upper middle class household yeah yeah and then uh it kind of surprised me when you know because in the pitch perfect movie she's supposed to be playing like a college student and she's like in her 40s or something yeah yeah yeah
01:11:54
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, I like her, but I don't love her. I mean, I've never liked her. Like I've never found her funny or entertaining at all. Like I do not, that's one of those actors where I do not get it. I just do not get it. Here's the difference between her and say, Melissa McCarthy.
01:12:13
Speaker
Well, Melissa McCarthy can actually act. Melissa McCarthy can actually act. She's actually funny. And she does not fall back on just being the funny fat girl. Yeah. Which is what Rebel Wilson does. Yeah. Rebel Wilson just content to be the funny fat girl. And that's all, you know, that's her shtick. And she plays it. And if that works for her, hey, you know, God bless. But, you know, as we can see from her career, that's not doing a whole lot to, you know,
01:12:42
Speaker
get her a whole bunch of movie roles. Whereas like you said, I've seen Melissa McCarthy actually act her ass off. Did you ever see the movie where she played the writer that was forging all of the letters from the famous people? Ah, no. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, that was a good movie. That was good. And Spy. Spy is a great movie. Spy is amazing. Spy is awesome. Oh man, I love Spy. Yeah. You know what else too? A lot of people hate this movie, but I thought it was a lot of fun was the heat that she did with Sandra Bullock.
01:13:11
Speaker
You know what? Well, listen, I'm not gonna say anything about Sandra Bullock either, you know. Matter of fact, I don't care if the movie's not funny. If you've got Sandra Bullock in it, I'm down. Yeah. Yeah. And also, she was an identity thief with Jason Bateman, which was, you know, it was kind of a silly movie, but she got a chance to show, like, some acting chops in that as well. Like, she got like a moment or two where she got to show. And also, you know, I like Ghostbusters. I like the Ghostbusters reboot.
01:13:36
Speaker
I like, yeah, I like Ghostbusters. There I said it. I don't care what none of y'all say. I don't care what anyone says. That movie was funny and especially the extended cut and especially Kate McKinnon. Oh man, Kate McKinnon stole that movie. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I thought, I thought Kristen Wiig and Melissa McCarthy were gonna be the funniest things in that movie, but no, it was Kate McKinnon and surprisingly Chris Hemsworth. Chris Hemsworth.
01:14:03
Speaker
who showed a definite genius for, not just a talent, but genius for comedy. Oh yeah. In this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. I was, I was waiting for him to reveal that he was actually Thor. Yeah. For some reason. I said, you know what son, he's Thor presenting to be a mortal and having fun, you know, goofing with people. And I didn't, I didn't know this, but apparently Melissa McCarthy is going to be playing Ursula in the Little Mermaid live action. Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but, you know, that goes, but that was a movie that did not get a fair chance. No, yeah. It didn't get a fair chance because apparently there's a lot of men out there that, you know, felt threatened, you know. Yes.
01:14:48
Speaker
I'm not going to go into that, folks. I'm trying to remain calm. Let us go back into Constantine. We'll get back into Constantine. All right. So Shia LaBeouf in this movie, nothing special at all. And especially compared to the character in the comics. Because Chaz in the comics, he's older than John Constantine. He's like the only friend that John hasn't gotten killed yet.
01:15:13
Speaker
He's like the only one who will talk to him and he's married, he's got kids, he's got grandkids and like his wife hates John Constantine. Like that's like a running thing going on through the comics. Everybody hates John Constantine except for Chaz Kramer. He's like the only one who sticks by him. Okay. Throw all the shit John has done. Like you remember they had Chaz in the TV series, right? Right.
Chaz's Character Critique
01:15:38
Speaker
That's much more similar to the Chaz you get in the comics. Oh, okay. Yeah.
01:15:43
Speaker
uh the chance here that we get is much more like a kid sidekick yeah he's 100 percent this is he's a more annoying short round oh he's way annoying oh can i come with you let me come with you i want to come with you please let me come with you oh man i just wanted to turn a hole off and just smack this kid already yeah yeah just shut up please i love when they go into the club and
01:16:08
Speaker
And so he asked him, he said, well, can I get it? And John says, yeah, if you can get it. And then he walks by the guy, and this is one of my favorite scenes, is that the guy holds up the card and he says, yeah, two squirrels and a duck. And they never explained it, what the deal is with that card, but, you know, Shia LaBeouf can't read it. So the guy doesn't let him in. Yeah, I think it's like, it's some sort of like,
01:16:32
Speaker
It's some sort of psychic thing you're supposed to be able to pick. Yeah, some kind of psychic test. I guess it's something that you see something that if you're in the know, if you have the sight, you can see something on there that everybody else can't see. But it's a funny scene. And he says, oh, well, I'm with that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was waiting for the guy to punch him.
01:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, seriously. But like I said, you have extended periods in this movie, like even if they had a scene where Constantine says, okay, well listen, I want you to go research this and this and that and come back and tell me what you find. We don't even get that. Shia LaBeouf just disappears.
01:17:12
Speaker
And he just, and he's just like a dick for no reason too. Like he's just like that when John's selling him, like move the car, move it. He's like, okay. And he like moves it like a half a foot back. He's like, there it's moved. And then the mere fault, then he gets pissed off and shy. He's like, well, if you told me, like he told you to move the fucking car, you dick. He told you to move the car. Now, if you've been around him for a while, as the movie implies, he's worked with John for a while, you should have moved that thing three blocks away. If he told you to move the car, you know,
01:17:44
Speaker
But yeah, that was, and then they bring him back at the end to show that he's an angel in the post-credits scene. That just felt so unnecessary. Yeah, yeah. That felt so, like, we're supposed to feel, I don't know what, happy for him? The movie keeps trying to make us feel like we should care about Chaz, but they never, well, they tell us we're supposed to care about Chaz, but they never make us care about him. They never give us a reason. No.
01:18:15
Speaker
Matter of fact, not even that we should care about it. While we should be interested in him. Yeah. When he dies, I think most people in the theater were probably cheering. Oh, I said good. I'm good. Man. Hey, y'all waited an hour and a half too long to kill this little bass. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like every other character that's in the movie,
01:18:36
Speaker
we're interested in. Rachel Weiss, her character, especially after we find out that she's a twin with her sister who kills herself. Well, I mean, even the alcoholic priest whose name is Hennessy, which is so perfect. Yeah. Like, even he's a lot more interesting. He's more interesting, yeah. Or also Beeman. That's another one. He's a lot more interesting as well.
01:18:59
Speaker
the guy who helps John do his research and stuff. And that's like, the only thing Chaz does is drive him around and be a dick. And he's got nothing else to do. And whine and complain. Yeah. Wine and complain that John will take him anywhere, John will teach him anything. And my thing is, OK, why do you keep him around? Because you know what? You could get somebody to drive you around who doesn't talk.
01:19:27
Speaker
Just hire anybody. Listen, I just want you to drive me around and don't talk to me.
01:19:33
Speaker
Yeah, well, especially once he hooks up with Angela, he's got no use for Chazz anymore, because she's driving him around everywhere. Okay, see what I mean? When I see that there are periods where he just disappeared. Again, I think that this is the things, they just stuck Shyla off in this movie, because, you know, somebody liked this kid and they wanted to convince us. That's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. He was recommended to Akiva Goldsman by Will Smith.
01:20:00
Speaker
after uh after iRobot uh because the three of them all worked in iRobot so that that's what happened yeah yeah yeah so they just stuck them in this movie to try to convince us oh yeah we oh we love this kid you're gonna love him too and then they tell us he's Chaz Kramer i'm like no he fucking isn't no yeah yeah i said no i don't i don't love him not that i dislike Shia LaBeouf but to me like i said i don't like it when i feel like somebody's being forced on me
01:20:30
Speaker
Yeah. Like you should, oh, you should love, especially when you've got other people in the movie, other people in this movie, like Rachel Weisz. Yes. Yeah. Who definitely deserves to be in more movies. Yes. Yeah. I mean, she's not, she doesn't do anything very spectacular in this movie, but she's, she's good. Like she's not, there's nothing that's, she doesn't stand out, but I think in the big part, that's just because there's a lot of other better performances in this, but she, she does a fine job, I think.
01:20:58
Speaker
But know what she does? Okay, here's the thing. She knows she's a supporting character. Yeah. So that's what she does. She supports, you know, the overall story. Yeah. He knows the camera reason. Okay, this guy, he's the star of the movie. He's the one that's carrying this and everything like that. But, you know, she
01:21:19
Speaker
She's in a lot of scenes with him, but if you know, she never tries to steal a scene. No, she knows that her character is basically here so that Keanu Reeves can explain everything to the audience. Right, that's what the, you know, she understands what a supporting character does. You know what I kept thinking when I was watching this is she's Naboochie Wright in Blade.
01:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, like the exact same type of character. She's the exact same type of character. She's there for us so that the main character's got someone to explain everything to. Right.
01:21:55
Speaker
which in a movie like this is what you need. I mean, as much as I appreciate the fact that there's a lot they don't explain. There's a lot that just happens in this movie and they don't go into a lot of detail about it, but then there are some things that have to be explained. And yeah, by Constantine explaining it to her, he's explaining it to us as well. This is a very accessible
Film's Accessibility
01:22:20
Speaker
movie.
01:22:20
Speaker
Yes. That's one thing I want to say about this move. This is very accessible. You know, if you don't know a thing about John Constantine from comic books or the TV show, whatever, like, you can sit down and watch this movie. Like I said, that's what I said. You could just take it as a supernatural action adventure. You can sit down and watch this and have a good time with this movie. And that's it.
01:22:40
Speaker
Something else I like about this movie that it did, and this is something that I did in my books as well, that Supernatural did this to when they started getting into using angels in season four, I think it was. And I don't think up until this point, the only movie that I think was this ballsy about playing with Christian mythology was probably The Prophecy.
01:23:07
Speaker
Oh, you had a Christopher Walken. Right. Yeah. But like, cause this is like, especially that's when he says, um, this whole idea of like God and the devil, uh, heaven and hell just having like this kind of like ceasefire and then just continuing to fight like a proxy war with, with the souls of mankind. And that scene where he said, when she asked where's God and all this, and he says, God's a kid with an ant farm lady. And that,
01:23:30
Speaker
like that's like the kind of stuff that you later see in stuff like supernatural or what I did in my books too or but like not since the prophecy has a movie been that ballsy to say like you know what we're gonna treat Christian mythology the same way other movies will will pick and choose and and play play jazz with you know Greek mythology or Roman mythology or whatever like that and I like that this movie had the balls to do that
01:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, they just wouldn't, because, and I've said this many times in the past, folks, and you will probably hear me say many more times in the future. If you're gonna work with this material, and this is gonna be the subject of your movie, then damn it, commit to it. Yeah.
01:24:11
Speaker
Go ahead and do it. Don't half-ass it. Don't pull back and say, okay, well, we can't do that. No, if you're going to do it, then go ahead and do it. Yeah. And commit to it. And this movie does. It does commit to it. You know, the scenes with Balthazar, I love the scene where he kicks his ass, where Constantine kicks his ass with brass knuckles with crosses cut.
01:24:32
Speaker
That is so much fun. Yeah, those were apparently those brass knuckles. This is from the director's commentary. They were made from gold that was blessed by a bishop during the Crusades.
01:24:42
Speaker
Ooh, man, cool. Yeah, so I like that they have all these little explanations for these different artifacts he uses. But yeah. Right, exactly. And Gavin Rossdale, he's the one who plays Balthazar, he was great. Like I thought he did a wonderful job playing just like this really like skeevy demon character. Oh, he was a lot of fun. He was a lot of fun this one. Holy crap, I didn't know this. He was the lead singer of the band Bush. Really? Yeah.
01:25:09
Speaker
I wish he actually had more to do in this movie, because every time he shows up, it's fun. Yeah. When he shows up, yeah. Well, I mean, I wish he had just done more things in general, because he doesn't seem to have done a whole lot. I mean, he was in Zoolander. He was an episode of Burn Notice, an episode of Hawaii Five-O. But yeah, I mean, I would have liked to have seen him and do a lot of other stuff, because he was really good in this.
01:25:37
Speaker
Yeah, I really enjoy it. Like I said, every single he was in, I sat up a little bit straighter because I knew that something fun was going to happen. And you know what's kind of funny is he could have played Constantine, actually. Yeah. Because he's this, you know, blonde British guy.
Papa Midnight's Character Potential
01:25:53
Speaker
Yeah. He could have used it. And he does have that kind of vague, stingish kind of, you know, lip tool. Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:01
Speaker
If you spiked up his hair a little bit and put the trench coat on him, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. And then Pruitt Taylor Vince, who's in, he plays the mental patient in one of our favorite movies, Identity. Oh my God, Identity. Folks, if any of y'all have not seen Identity, that's your homework assignment for the weekend. Watch Identity. Yeah, Identity is wonderful. But yeah, he was that. He played the serial killer in that movie.
01:26:31
Speaker
G. Mon Han So, this is definitely not Papa Midnight from the comics. Papa Midnight is, again, you saw him in, if you saw the Constantine TV show, the Papa Midnight they portray in the TV show, that's the character from the comics. G. Mon Han So is not really that character from the comics at all. But this character that's in this movie, he could have his own movie. Oh yeah, he's awesome in this movie.
01:26:59
Speaker
Like Hanso is just, he's, you know, he's just so cool. Like that first scene where he's introduced, he's just like very calmly speaking in the cigarette smoke, cigar smoke, just kind of wafting out of his mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Cause there's a, I mean, there is a whole backstory about him that's implied and his place in this world, you know, that you get in that, just in that little conversation he has with Constantine, there's so much, and he runs that club where it's kind of like a neutral ground.
01:27:26
Speaker
for angels and demons to hang out, you know, there's so much that could be done. I'm sitting there saying, dad, if I had this character, what I could do with him? Oh, yeah. No, he does a great job. And there's also an implied history between the two of them, right? Like they do a really good, I think that's one of the problems with this movie is I think this movie would have worked a lot better had it come out like 10 years later.
01:27:53
Speaker
Yeah. Because it's kind of hard to buy Keanu Reeves as this kind of like seasoned veteran in this movie. But if it had come out with Keanu Reeves playing the character now, I think it would have fit a lot better. Uh-huh, yeah, when he has like a little age on him. Right, exactly. Yeah, like, OK, we couldn't have bought him as John Wick, you know, like 20 years ago. Exactly. No, definitely. But we can buy him now. Right, right.
01:28:18
Speaker
It's John Wick. Yeah, I definitely could see this. Again, this is a movie. This is one of these movies that you and I, and we've run into quite a few of these movies in our exploration together that is a lot better than people gave it credit for when it first came out. Yeah, definitely.
01:28:39
Speaker
Because as far as I can recall, if I can recall, and I don't have the best memory in the world, but nobody liked this movie when it first came out. No, no, everybody hated it at the time. Like it's only after. It's only like in the years since that it's kind of gained like this cult following.
01:28:57
Speaker
And let's see who else. Oh, you know, Tilda Swinton. I like the idea that they cast, and it's kind of funny, Tilda Swinton now has played a magical character, has played a male magical character from Marvel and a male magical character from DC. Yeah. She's marvelous. You know what? I love Tilda Swinton. And yes, if you're going to get somebody to play an androgynous
01:29:26
Speaker
half-angel, who else would you get but Tilda Swinton? Yeah, yeah. That was something else that I couldn't really quite understand was the whole, that's something that's never really explained, never really makes sense. Because if angels and demons can't fully cross over, then how are their half-breeds? Yeah. That was something that didn't quite make sense to me. And to me, well, if they don't have any sex, why don't they all look and drive to this?
01:29:58
Speaker
I don't think that was what, I think it was just, that was just like a, even though she's looking androgynous, I don't think that was necessarily that she is androgynous, you know what I mean? Like not that they don't have any sex organs. Right. I think that was just kind of like a design choice, the character choice they wanted to go with for that character. Whatever way they decided to do it, as long as they got Tilda Swinton, because I could watch her or anything.
01:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, she was really good at this. And they did a really, because they did a really good job of making her look androgynous too, because I was watching this movie, and I didn't really know Tilda Swinton the first time I watched it, but I do remember thinking like, is that a man or is that a woman? Like I really could not tell. I know Patricia and I was watching one movie that she was in, and that's what Patricia said.
01:30:53
Speaker
Is she a man? Is she a woman? What is she? And I said, you tell me. When we get to the end of the movie, you tell me. And by the time I got to the end of the movie, she said, and then I showed her the movie where she plays Bob Dylan. Oh, I'm not there, right? Yeah. She couldn't believe that that was the same person. I said, yeah, that's her.
01:31:11
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's right. I forgot she was in that. Yeah. She said, get out of here. I said, yup, that's too slim. She said, oh my god. But you know what the best, what I think the best performance in this movie is? Bar none. The best performance.
Peter Stormare's Lucifer
01:31:24
Speaker
Peter Stormer. Oh, as Lucifer, yes. Yes. That was just like perfect. He comes in
01:31:33
Speaker
near the end of the movie, and he just completely steals the entire ending of the movie away from him. You know, Keanu Reeves. He does. He just comes and just takes it over. This is one of my all-time favorite depictions of the devil I've ever seen in a movie. Him, Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy, and I guess, yeah, now Tom Ellis on Lucifer. Those are probably my top three.
01:32:03
Speaker
And, but yeah, but Storm Air just plays it so well. He's like equal, I don't know how he does it, but he's somehow both charming and skeevy at the same time. Yeah, yeah. He's like, he walks that fine line between skeevy and sleazy. Yeah. You know, and also I always like a devil that is not afraid to get his hands dirty. Yeah. He doesn't mind doing his own dirty work.
01:32:33
Speaker
And apparently he's the one who chose the costume design. Like, so the, the off white suit and like the tar on the, on the bare feet, that was Stormare's idea. Like, and here's what the producer and the director originally wanted. They wanted leather pants, bare chested, a dog collar with spikes and tattoos over Stormare's face and chest. And good on Stormare for saying, no, this is what we're gonna do. Cause this works so much better. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, because
01:33:03
Speaker
The first thing, okay, well, what's up with the tar? And again, this is something they don't explain. And I like that they don't explain it. Some things, I'm one of these people that know you don't have to explain every little thing in a movie to me. Like some people, like Patricia and I get into this argument all the time. She said, oh, well, what does that mean? And I said, well, it don't matter. Oh, don't tell me that. Don't you tell me that. It must be something they put in the movie. Well, no, it doesn't, you know.
01:33:31
Speaker
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It doesn't mean anything. Because some people, not my beloved wife, but some people need to have every little thing explained to them. I am not one of these people. Matter of fact, I like it when some things are not explained. Yeah.
01:33:52
Speaker
you know, leave it up to my imagination. Also there were, so Michelle Monaghan, she has a cameo in this. You know, the demon who says holy water when he lights the sprink, when he sets off the sprinkler system, that was Michelle Monaghan. Apparently her character, Ellie, originally had a larger role and she was supposed to be like this like half demon lover of John Constantine's.
01:34:17
Speaker
I remember hearing or reading that somewhere, yeah, that she had a big, I saw an interview, a red interview with her, where she said that originally she had a much bigger role. Yeah, and they had cut her part, they had cut those scenes because they wanted her to be, they wanted to make John more of a lonely character.
01:34:34
Speaker
And also Domino Harvey, the real Domino Harvey has a cameo in this as well. No fool. Yeah, she's, there's this one scene when he goes into Midnight's Bar, she's sitting at the table, she's the angel with like the very short blonde hair, and there's a demoness chewing on her ear. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the real Domino Harvey. Oh wow, okay, cool.
01:35:02
Speaker
um uh now this like I mentioned earlier like the the whole cancer thing that comes from the dangerous habit story arc and this is something else that I kind of I understand why they did it but I do kind of like the end I do like how they handled the conclusion better in the comic book so in this you know he ends up getting Lucifer cures his cancer
Critique of Constantine's Ending
01:35:25
Speaker
because
01:35:27
Speaker
because he's about to die. And also the whole, there was another quibble I had was time is of the essence, right? He's got to kill himself fast to get Lucifer up here because they've already established that his is the one soul Lucifer would come up to personally collect. Right. So time is of the essence. Gabriel's about to release Mammon and he's got the glass, right? But he cuts his wrists instead of cutting his throat.
01:35:57
Speaker
And like, if time is of the essence, why not just go for the throat? Because that would end your life faster. Whereas you cut your wrist, that's going to take a long time to bleed out. Well, he wants to bleed out, but he don't want to bleed out that fast.
01:36:12
Speaker
But time is on the essence, that's what I'm saying. Listen, that whole sequence there is like a little bit convoluted, it really is, because there's like two or three things that Constantine has tried to achieve all at the same time. And it's a lot of resolutions to this
01:36:33
Speaker
somewhat convoluted plot that are trying to get resolved in the amount of time we have left. Well also the whole thing like the whole thing with needing the Spear of Destiny feels kind of tacked on as well. I don't really I don't really under there they never really explained what I mean they do explain it but it never feels like it's really necessary. It's the Spear of Destiny actually is not necessary at all to the plot.
01:36:57
Speaker
Well, because they said they need the blood of Christ on it to free him. So then the spirit destiny has the blood of Christ, but it's just like that whole thing it just. Yeah, but there's never like any is not like.
01:37:09
Speaker
It's not like the Ark of the Covenant. It's not like the Ark of the Covenant, exactly. Like I'm saying, I mean, okay, the Ark of the Covenant, it's like we're constantly reminded that this is the reason why everybody's running around, you know, killing each other, beating up on each other, running around the world. We're constantly, we're not constantly reminded of the spirit of destiny. So if the characters don't have any urgency about it, how can we have any urgency? Right.
01:37:35
Speaker
You know, like the ark of the covenant. Yeah. Well, we got to find the ark. We got to find somebody's always saying we got to get the ark. Nobody's saying here, we got to get the spear. We got to get the spear. Right. Yeah. It's kind of like we need the spear and oh, here it is. Bingo. Oh, shit. Spear. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We'll pick it up. You know, bring it along.
01:38:02
Speaker
You know, yeah, there's like no, yeah, no urgency. Now, anyway, so before I got off track with that, you know, drawing that other thought. But so in the, he kills himself and he offers his and, you know, Lucifer comes up and he tells him, hey, look, you know, your son's in the other room. He's working with Gabriel. They're going to, they're going to take, take control of earth. And you know what, you want this world for yourself, basically. And then Lucifer goes, he, you know,
01:38:32
Speaker
you know, knocks the shit out of Gabriel and then he takes his son back to hell. And then he, and he goes back to John and he tells him like, look, all right, fine. You helped out. What do you fucking want? Cause I know you're going to want something.
01:38:48
Speaker
And he's like, what, you want an extension? And John says, no, set her soul free. Let her go back to heaven. He's like, all right, fine. And then when he's starting to take John down to hell, then he gets stopped by heaven or God. And then he starts being raised up to heaven. And Lucifer says, no, you're going to live because you're going to prove that you really belong in hell.
01:39:11
Speaker
Now that's one way to end it, but the way in the comics it ended is John's dying, he knows he's going to go to hell, so what he does is he summons three different demons and he promises his soul to each one of these demons without the others knowing it.
01:39:32
Speaker
And then he kills himself. And all three demons come to collect his soul and they all start fighting over it. And then John says to them, hey, look, you guys can either tear hell apart for me, or you can let me live while you try and figure this out. So they let him live. And then in the very last page of the comic book,
01:39:53
Speaker
He takes out his, like his lungs are completely clear of cancer. He's all healed up. First thing he does, last page of the story, he takes out a cigarette and lights it and flicks off the reader. So he got cured of cancer so he can go back to smoking again. Yeah. Okay. And just like, that's just, that's John Consti, right? He's just like such a, he just doesn't give a fuck. Like he's just such a,
01:40:20
Speaker
He's such a contrarian. He's not even gonna take the hint in that case. But in this here, at the last scene, when you see him fiddling through his pockets, then he pulls out a stick of gum instead. So I did not like that. For someone who loved that storyline, that still doesn't sit well with me. With everything I've come around to with this movie, that's one thing I have not.
01:40:47
Speaker
Yeah, but I can see why they went that way because that would have, that would have added like another 20 minutes to the movie. Oh, that part. Yeah. But I mean, just like the gum thing and is the one that really kind of
01:41:01
Speaker
Like I understand why they did the, how they handled his getting cured of cancer, but it's just the gum thing at the end when he pulls out a stick of gum instead of like puts in a fresh cigarette. That was one thing. And me, I actually would like to think that the Constantine in this movie manipulated events so that the devil would cure him.
01:41:27
Speaker
That's what I like to think. That was his actual purpose all along. Okay, well, I want to get this guy to cure me. You know what I think is funny? Because the whole time he says that he's, you know, Gabriel makes the point of saying that, look, you only do good things because you're trying to buy your way into heaven. But then,
01:41:50
Speaker
How do you know he's not trying to buy his way into heaven when he tells Lucifer to let Isabel go free? That also just kind of feels like, how is that different from all the other times he's...
01:42:02
Speaker
be safe people. Okay. Well, this is why I think he planned it because either way he wins, either he gets into heaven or Lucifer cures him of cancer and he keeps on living. So one way or another, he wins. That's why I like to think that he manipulated events so that either one or the other would happen.
01:42:24
Speaker
You know, and yeah, we have seen him. Didn't he go and just drive the demon from the girl right in the beginning of the movie? I didn't see where he got any benefit, you know, from that. I didn't see any money change hands. Yeah, yeah. So like I didn't, I didn't, that, that whole, there, there are a few things in this movie that just don't quite add up completely. And that, that's one of them. Like how is it different when he saves Isabelle versus when he saves a little girl? It doesn't, it's never really explained in any sort of
01:42:53
Speaker
way that makes any sort of sense. See what you need is for him to be an actual crudy John Constantine bastard like he is in the comics but however you know that in Hollywood they're so scared of having a character. Oh well we need a character that people can like. Yeah exactly. You know me and my wife was having this argument last night we were watching uh
01:43:18
Speaker
the prequel to what flew over the cuckoo's nest, you know, the ratchet. Oh, ratchet, yes. Yeah, we were watching that. And we're up to episode six, as I was saying to my wife, okay, so you want to finish watching this? Well, same for the one, I can't watch it too much because, you know, I don't like her, she's unlikable.
01:43:36
Speaker
you know yeah no but see that's how most people are they said oh well i need to like the characters i need to like the characters and i feel that that's a problem with this movie in that it wants it both ways it wants to keep telling you what a bastard
01:43:52
Speaker
John Constantine is. But then he does things that prove that he's not a bastard. Yeah, yeah. They don't really commit to a consistent characterization with him. Right, exactly. Because of course, they want you to like the character. They don't want you to say, well damn, he's a bastard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's like,
01:44:11
Speaker
You keep telling me a character is a great martial artist, but he keeps getting his ass kicked. Right. Yeah. Well, why is he considered such a great martial artist if he keeps getting beat up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I felt the same way. That is one of those things that just doesn't quite fit so well together. But even with those little plot holes, there's still a lot of good in this movie. And visually, too. Visually, it's amazing.
01:44:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I'm actually kind of surprised that this came out in, because this came out in, what was it, 2006, 2005, 2006? Yeah, 2005. 2005. And a lot of times when you're looking back at these early 2000s movies when they were using a lot of CGI and stuff like that, it shows, right?
01:45:02
Speaker
Like you go back and watch Ang Lee's Hulk, for example. The CGI is very obvious in that movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. As much as I love that movie, the CGI is very obvious. But this movie, it's done in a very good way. The effects still work today very well. Yeah, the CGI, especially the wings, the CGI wings. They hold up very well. Yeah.
01:45:31
Speaker
in this movie. Like there's a scene near the end where after Shia LaBeouf is killed and I think John is like casting this spell. Oh yeah, when Gabriel comes down. Yeah, I mean, you know, the visuals, I mean special effects and the visuals are great in that, you know. I like the scene where
Impressive CGI Effects
01:45:52
Speaker
is the scene where Rachel, why she snatched, you know, through the skyscraper. And she go through all the walls and the offices and everything like that. And it's one of those scenes you look at and you say, well, shit, how did they film that? Yeah. And just like the whole thing about, you know, the hell landscape, it's basically being like the landscape we're all now, but then it's, it's as if it's been hit by a nuclear bomb. Yeah. Yeah.
01:46:18
Speaker
And yeah, and I did like just like the look of everything in this movie, just like the little tools he used, like all those little types of things, they work together really well. How did you like the shotgun? Oh, I love that thing. I love that thing. No, because I hear a lot of criticism about that shotgun. Oh, John Constantine would never use that. No, John Constantine, and they're right. John Constantine would never use that, but there's a lot of things
01:46:45
Speaker
Like again, that goes back to the whole thing about this is not John Constantine, right? This is not the same guy. Yeah, John Constantine in the comics, he would never use that. He would be conning his way out of shit instead or be using magic. But the John Constantine that Keanu Reeves is playing, he would do that. So yeah, so that doesn't bother me. Because at this point, I'm not thinking of this as
01:47:14
Speaker
Because if I'm going to be pissed off that this is not the John Constantine from the comics, there's a whole laundry list of things I'd be pissed off about before I get to the shotgun. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. But I mean.
01:47:30
Speaker
Listen, thanks to Crisis on Infinite Earths, we know that this actually is Earth that exists someplace in the continuity. So I guess we could just say this is the Constantine of Earth 32 or something. No, that's the one thing. I was just thinking about that idea. And I don't quite like that idea, because I do like the idea that Crisis kind of gave us when Constantine goes to Lucifer's Earth and Lucifer knows him.
01:47:55
Speaker
even though Constantine's supposed to be from a different earth. So this idea of John Constantine and the whole multiverse. Yeah. I do kind of like that idea better. So I like to think that this has no connection with the DC multiverse at all.
01:48:13
Speaker
And I think that that's probably the best way. Like I said, I think the best way to just take this movie is just as a supernatural action adventure with a character named John Constantine, you know, but actually doesn't have any relation at all.
01:48:30
Speaker
You know what would be kind of funny? I just had a thought of this. If they do do a sequel to this, and at the end there's like a post-credits scene or something where Keanu Reeves' character opens a portal somewhere, he walks through it, and then he waves his hand over his face and it changes into Matt Ryan. That would be cool.
01:48:57
Speaker
That would work. Yeah, I can see something like that happening. Would you like to see an episode where they actually do meet the Matt Ryan, John Constantine, and Keanu Reeves? Because I think Keanu Reeves would do something like that. I think, I totally think he would. I don't know, because again, I like that whole idea of there being one John Constantine in the multiverse.
01:49:19
Speaker
But yeah, part of me would like to see it, but part of me also thinks it's better if there's only one version of John Constantine who just is able to travel between the worlds.
01:49:30
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of like the idea of, you know, mystical characters such as John Constantine and the Phantom Stranger, you know, and, you know, the Spectre and Dr. Fate, like there's only one. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's not like a whole bunch of versions of them existing all throughout the multiverse, like, you know, there's just one of them. Right, yeah. I kind of like that thought. Me too, yeah.
01:49:56
Speaker
All right, let's see, any other final thoughts to mention with Constantine? Only that if you have not seen Constantine, and I don't know why, well, you might not if you're a fan of the comic book, but you are doing yourself a disservice. I am not big on the comic book myself, but you know what?
01:50:21
Speaker
This is a movie that I can see would make me interested in wanting to find out more about the comic book version of this character. If you're a fan of Keanu Reeves, absolutely you should see this movie. This isn't one of his best movies. And even this isn't like the first movie that I would recommend you see if you've never seen the Keanu Reeves movie.
01:50:45
Speaker
It is one of the five. I would recommend that you see if you have not seen. Matter of fact, you know what, I'm going to go so far as to put this into his top five. His top five can read movies. I would put this as say like number four or five. Okay. Well, since you opened the door to that, what would your top five be?
01:51:05
Speaker
Number one, two and three would be John Wick. No. Okay. Let's go with the John Wick movies. I'm going to cheat and I'm going to put them all together under number one. Okay.
01:51:19
Speaker
I'm going for number two. I'm going to say The Lake House, which is a romantic movie. I don't remember who it was. I think Sandra Bullock. I want to say Sandra Bullock. Yeah, yeah. I think that was one of the advertising points. It was like it was the first time they were together since Speed. Right, yeah. I would recommend that movie.
01:51:42
Speaker
uh because it is a nice romantic movie and also for the totally unexpected time travel aspect of the movie um of course speed um i would also recommend watching much of much ado about nothing simply because you there's a bunch of actors in that movie doing shakespeare
01:52:04
Speaker
that I've never seen doing, never seen doing Shakespeare before, including Keanu Reeves is in it, Denzel Washington, a bunch of other people, Kenneth Branagh, he's in it, he directed it, and he knows Shakespeare like a monkey knows coconuts. And yeah, for number five, yeah, Constantine. I think I would go John Wick series for number one, Bill and Ted series for number two,
01:52:36
Speaker
Three, I would probably put Constantine. Four, I'm just looking over his... No, actually, no, wait, change that. Yeah, yeah, three Constantine, four would be point break, and then five would be 47 Ronin.
01:52:54
Speaker
Oh, OK. Yeah, 47 Roan. I'm glad you added that in there. See, I didn't put Bill and Ted in there, because I figured everybody's seen that. You know, if there's any Keanu Reeves. Oh, you know what? I'm going to change. Instead, I'm going to knock 47 Roan off, and I'm going to put Scanner Darkly. Oh, yeah, definitely. OK, yeah. I should have had that in my list, too, yes, Scanner Darkly. But I find that, in my experience,
01:53:23
Speaker
If anybody's seen anything that Keanu Reeves has done, it's speed and the Bill and Ted movies. So I always feel comfortable leaving them off any list that I make of Keanu Reeves movies. Especially, which we call it, speed. Everybody's seen speed. You know what? Even people who don't like Keanu Reeves have seen speed and they like it.
01:53:54
Speaker
But yeah, so that's what I put up. So yeah, anyway, that about does it for this. And so that closed the book on Constantine. And yeah, I'd agree with you a lot too. I'd say, look, if you want a comics accurate Constantine, go watch the NBC show, which should be, I'm pretty sure, is that on HBO Max? I don't think so. I'll look and see, you know what?
01:54:22
Speaker
Even if it's not on HBO Max, I'm like almost 100% certain it's on CW Seed. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was going to recommend that to. Yeah. So, you know, watch Matt Ryan if you want the more comics accurate Constantine. And that show was damn good too. Like that was- It is. It is. Yeah. Very good. It was a crime that that show was not renewed for a second. Oh, it was. Oh man. That was, you know,
01:54:48
Speaker
I don't know where these people, I mean, I can only hope that they, cause I know that Matt Ryan has been lobbying hard, you know, to bring the show back in some kind of form or whatever. And I only hope that they do bring it back because like I said, I don't know that much about the character, but from what little I do know, yeah, he's the guy. Yeah.
01:55:14
Speaker
You know. Okay, so here's another and if you're not very familiar with the constant comics, you know, such as a certain co host will go unnamed, then one thing you should do this also definitely read at least the dangerous habit story. Because that is that is like one of the best Constantine stories out there.
01:55:32
Speaker
Oh yeah, well, we always encourage you guys, you know, please go out and I mean, you know, check out the source material, you know, it's, you know, just don't watch the movie. Yeah, watch the movie, but yeah, you know, I mean, you know, dig a little deeper. Yes, yeah. That's what we want you to do. Yeah, and there's some, there's some damn good constant comic books out there. So definitely check those out as well. If you like this movie or if you like the Matt Ryan portrayal, or if you like them both, like we do.
01:56:02
Speaker
Okay, so that means that that does it with with my pick for this week. So next week we're looking at you. So what are we watching next time?
01:56:10
Speaker
Well, you know what? You mentioned a movie. And keeping in line, because this week, you picked a movie that was somewhat controversial, was actively hated when it first came out. But now people have revised their opinion of it. And it's become like a sort of cult thing. And you mentioned the movie yourself.
01:56:36
Speaker
I'm going to go with a movie that equally was hated when it first came out. But I think it's a movie that people have reevaluated. And while they may not love it, I think that, yeah, they're starting to change their minds about it. And that's a movie I love wholeheartedly. And that's Ang Lee's Hulk. OK. OK. Yeah, yeah. Because I remember you and I,
01:56:58
Speaker
We've had our backs up against the wall against this movie for defending it against people quite a few times. Oh, I've defended this movie since day one. I have a lot of friendships behind this movie.
Ang Lee's Hulk: Polarizing Reception
01:57:13
Speaker
Yeah, people have not stopped talking. I mean, they talk to me now, but they, you know, yeah.
01:57:19
Speaker
This was an extremely polarizing movie when it first came out. I don't even think polarizing, I just think just hated. Besides you and me, I can count maybe, I can count on one hand how many people I know who like this movie and I'd still have fingers left over.
01:57:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Nobody liked this movie. Yeah. I thought it was, and I still do think in a lot of ways, it's one of the most brilliantly crafted superhero movies I've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah. It's got serious flaws in it, but there's a lot of shit in it that it gets
01:57:57
Speaker
Right. It's funny you mentioned that, because I rewatched this about like maybe two years ago, I think. And it was like the first time in a long time I'd seen it. And you are, it has a lot of flaws. There's a lot of stuff that, you know, it has not aged well, but there's still a lot of good stuff in it. Yeah.
01:58:16
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff into which we will get into next time
Upcoming Hulk Discussion
01:58:20
Speaker
around. So make sure your guys are back here next week. Yes, yeah. What a week after. Because you're going to want to hate listen to that probably if you're one of the people who hated that movie.
01:58:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's still all. Although I have talked to quite a few people who have come around and they said, yeah, you know something? It's not as bad as I thought it was. And they said, yeah, the stuff that's good in it, yeah, it's really good. Yeah, yeah.
01:58:49
Speaker
OK, cool. So that's what we'll be doing next week. Come back next time. Listen to us talk about Ang Lee's Hulk. Until then, you can head on over to the Facebook group, Superhero Cinephiles. Now that we're 10 episodes away from our 50th episode, I'm going to put up a poll. We got all the requests that I think we're going to get. So I'm going to put up a poll saying what movie we want you guys to vote on for our 50th episode. And we're going to do a live commentary.
01:59:18
Speaker
And so yes, you'll want to join in, vote on that, because as I've said before, you don't want Derek picking the movie. And believe me, I've got a short list already. So hey, leave it up to me if you want to, but don't come back later on crying talking about, hey, I voted for Kodos. Yeah, yeah.
01:59:46
Speaker
OK. All right. Thanks so much for listening. And we will talk to you next time. Thank you. God bless. Good night. And remember, the coronavirus is still out there. Wear your masks. Stay safe.
02:00:04
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superheroescinephiles at gmail.com, or you can also visit us on the web at superheroescinephiles.com.
02:00:24
Speaker
If you like what you hear, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Each review helps us reach more potential listeners. You can also support the show by renting or purchasing the movies discussed, or by picking up our books, all of which can be accessed through the website, as well as find links to our social media presences. The theme music for this show is a shortened version of Superhero Showdown, a royalty-free piece of music, courtesy of pheasantudios.com.