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Death House Landlady
76 Plays1 year ago
Dorothea Puente looked like a harmless grandmotherly figure running a boardinghouse for people down on their luck. However, the discovery of buried bodies in her backyard called Puente's benevolent persona into question.
Articles:
https://oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/c8b85fn5/entire_text/
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23400917
https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/in-print-dorothea-puentes-killer-cookbook/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Dorothea Puente
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, I'm Sierra. And I'm Kaylee. And this is True Crime and Punishment. Episode 7 today, Sierra will be telling us about Dora Theopuente, the Death House landlady.
00:00:12
Speaker
Yes, this case was honestly a bit disturbing and a bit sad as well. It's interesting because this is the case of a serial killer, but if you look at her, she looks nothing like what you would picture a serial killer to be. She looks more like really a grandmother, but we'll get into that. That's even more disturbing, I think.
Origins of Suspicion
00:00:31
Speaker
It is, honestly. So our story will begin in late 1988, and it actually does not start with Dorothea Puente. It starts with a social worker named Judy Moyes. She was growing concerned about her client, Alvaro Burt Montoya. She had not heard from him for some time, and he was not responding to her efforts to contact him.
00:00:51
Speaker
Moyes knew that Montoya had been living in a boarding house of sorts at 1426 F Street in Sacramento. Moyes called the owner, Dorothea Puente, but she was dissatisfied with Puente's conflicting explanations for Montoya's silence.
Puente's Criminal History
00:01:06
Speaker
Moyes filed a missing persons report and in November, the police showed up to Dorothea Puente's house.
00:01:11
Speaker
Now this was not the first time that police had heard suspicious information about Puente. Earlier that same year a woman named Brenda Trujillo told police that Puente had drugged her and cashed her government support checks. The women had been in prison together and Trujillo had also stayed at 1426 F Street. According to some reports Trujillo also told police that Puente had buried some of her tenants in the backyard. Okay um so
00:01:38
Speaker
Did Puente run like a halfway house or was it just a general boarding house? Because you said earlier that it was a social worker not a parole officer that had been getting in contact with Puente. Right, so the social worker was for Alvaro Montoya who had mental disabilities. I think according to at least one article they also said he had schizophrenia but I'm not 100% positive about that. It was supposed to be in a sense a boarding house
00:02:02
Speaker
But it was not licensed and she was not supposed to have this boarding house. And we'll get into that and her typical clientele a little bit further on. Okay. So it wasn't like a government
Discovery of the Bodies
00:02:12
Speaker
sanction. You can go here and we can keep an eye on you type deal. It was just... Oh no. Okay.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yes, so we're going to go back to November of 1988. The police came to her house and searched it, but they found nothing. But then they asked to dig in the backyard and Puente agreed. And while digging, detectives discovered the remains of Leona Carpenter, age 78, who had been a tenant of Puente's boarding house. After finding Carpenter's remains, the police continued digging and also began questioning Puente. However, at the time, they didn't have enough evidence to hold her.
00:02:47
Speaker
Upon her release, Puente fled to Los Angeles. While there, she reportedly befriended a man who told her he received disability checks. So she started to get all buddy-buddy with him, but he recognized her from different reports that had begun circulating, and he turned her into police.
00:03:03
Speaker
They found a body in her backyard and didn't have enough to hold her. Is that what just? Yes. Okay. Just checking. I think some of the reasons for that were kind of expounded on by the defense in her trial, like why they wouldn't have enough evidence. I'm not sure. The sources that I looked at didn't say at the time why they didn't have enough evidence to hold her, but I think it will make sense as we go on. I think it honestly still doesn't make sense to me. So this man that she befriends turns her into police. So she is taken back to Sacramento.
00:03:32
Speaker
and police are continuing to dig, they eventually uncovered seven bodies, all of whom had been previous tenants at Puente's boarding house.
Puente's Exploitation Tactics
00:03:42
Speaker
One of them was Alvaro Montoya, the man that the social worker had been trying to contact. The others were Leona Carpenter, who was discovered first,
00:03:49
Speaker
and Dorothy Miller, age 64, Benjamin Fink, age 55, James Gallup, age 62, Vera Fay Martin, age 64, and Betty Palmer, age 78. During the investigation, the police questioned a local handyman named Ismael Flores. In 1985, Flores had constructed a lidded wooden box at Puente's request, which she later had Flores dump in the Sacramento River.
00:04:16
Speaker
In January of 1986, that box was discovered, although it wasn't linked to Flores and Puente at the time. Inside were human remains, but they weren't identified for a few years. However, in 1989, the remains were identified as 77-year-old Everson Gilmouth, who had been Puente's boyfriend. Oh, okay.
00:04:39
Speaker
So not only does Puente have ties to all of these victims, but she had a previous criminal history as well. In the past, she had gotten into trouble for forgery and fraud, and she was known for getting into different caregiving roles, specifically with vulnerable and disadvantaged populations who didn't have a strong family or social support network, like the elderly, the homeless, and people with addiction and mental health problems.
The Trial of Dorothea Puente
00:05:04
Speaker
According to her obituary, the investigators called these individuals shadow people because they weren't really noticed and their disappearances weren't really noticed. Really, really sad. That's unfortunate. That's something that you see a lot though in true crime cases where people who are not connected as well are more easily taken advantage of by rotten individuals. So that's very sad.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, it makes sense. And I was thinking, you know, if Montoya's social worker hadn't been so attentive, maybe these deaths would have gone unnoticed for even longer or maybe had never been discovered.
00:05:35
Speaker
Now going through Puente's previous criminal history, in the 1970s she had opened her first boarding house for the elderly and needy. This one was located at 2100 F Street in Sacramento. Now in 1978 she was arrested and given five years probation for forging tenant signatures on their benefit checks and she was told she could no longer operate in a boarding house so she became an in-home caregiver.
00:06:01
Speaker
Then, in 1982, she was
Conviction and Sentencing
00:06:04
Speaker
convicted of robbery and administering stupefying drugs to commit robbery. She was accused by clients and apparently by a man she met at a bar. She was given a five-year prison sentence, but she was released after three years because of good behavior. Now, during this time, a woman named Ruth Monroe died in 1982.
00:06:23
Speaker
But her death was ruled a suicide from drug overdose. She had been living with Puente at the time that this occurred, however. So when those bodies were discovered in Puente's backyard in 1988, investigators started looking back to that 1982 death and thinking, hmm, maybe this was one of Puente's victims.
00:06:41
Speaker
She had been arrested in 1982 given the five-year prison sentence. She was released after three years in 1985. However, though she was released, she was forbidden to run a boarding house, provide care for the elderly, or handle other people's government support checks.
00:06:56
Speaker
How did she end up in another boarding house situation? Well, you know, where there's a will, there's a way. But I did want to add, while she was behind bars, even though she was held captive, her heart was free, or at the very least, her pen was free to write love notes. This was when she struck up her long distance relationship
From Prison to Cookbook
00:07:16
Speaker
with Everson Gillmouth. After Puente's release, the couple made things official, so official, in fact, that they made a joint bank account.
00:07:23
Speaker
But it's believed she killed him soon after. It's believed that she used prescription medications to drug and kill her victims. According to what I read in the online archive of California, she kept the bodies upstairs until they could be buried in the backyard. And she had Alvaro Montoya help her. I think it's believed that she was able to manipulate him because of his mental disability.
00:07:44
Speaker
So he helped her with some of the bodies at least, but he also ended up being one of them. Because the deaths went unreported, Puente continued to collect her tenants' government support checks. She was charged with nine murders, the seven tenants, her boyfriend, and Ruth Monroe. She pled not guilty at the preliminary hearings, which began in April of 1990. Similarly to David Leonard Wood, the case received so much publicity that the trial had to be moved from Sacramento where the events took place.
00:08:13
Speaker
to Monterey. The trial itself took place from February to July of 1993. Now there were some interesting literary elements to this trial that I thought you might be interested in. Henry David Thoreau, to be exact. Oh, you know how Thoreau thrills my soul.
00:08:33
Speaker
So at the trial, prosecutor John O'Mara used this quote from Henry David Thoreau in his closing argument. Now in response to the prosecution's Henry David Thoreau quote,
00:08:52
Speaker
Defense attorney Kevin D. Klimo read to the jury excerpts from a January 4, 1860 journal entry written by Thoreau titled, Murder Mystery, Rabbit, Fox, Owl. In it, Thoreau recounts the tale of a rabbit killed and devoured in the woods, and the assumption, based on tracks found at the site of the attack,
00:09:11
Speaker
that a fox was responsible. As the story progresses, however, it becomes clear that some great bird of prey had struck the rabbit and was disturbed by the fox as it attempted to finish its meal. Though the circumstantial evidence against the fox was strong, I was mistaken. Yet any jury would have convicted him," Klimo quoted. You know how I feel about Henry David Thoreau. First of all, first quote about finding trout in the milk. Love that. Good job Thoreau.
00:09:35
Speaker
I understand what the defense is doing, but I would like for them to bring forth this great bird of prey. They did. The great bird of prey was that one alleged victim committed suicide and the other eight died of natural causes. It's rational, according to Klimo, when one considers the age and health of the nine people involved. Okay. Follow-up question. Why were they buried in her backyard?
00:09:59
Speaker
Ah, he had an answer for that as well. She didn't alert authorities because the well would run dry. If she alerted them, her unofficial and illegal boarding house would get shut down and, you know, she wouldn't have access to all of those support checks. So she was a thief but not a murderer. Right, exactly. She was the fox stealing from the rabbit that had been murdered by the Owl of Old Age. Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. That's also a thorough quote that barely fits what I wanted to say.
00:10:28
Speaker
love it. So yes, essentially the prosecution said she killed these people so that she could continue cashing their checks. I should have mentioned this sooner, but while running her boarding house, she became a signer of their checks and she would give them a little bit of the money, but keep most of it for expenses. You know, it's very expensive to run an unofficial boarding house.
00:10:48
Speaker
So the prosecution was saying she killed these people so that she could just have the checks and the defense said she didn't kill these people but she didn't want to report their deaths because otherwise she wouldn't have access to the money. Hmm, interesting. Indeed. So after 24 days of deliberation, the jury convicted her for three of the deaths but could not come to an agreement about the other six. Puente's sentence was life in prison without parole.
00:11:15
Speaker
She passed away on March 27th, 2011 at age 82. The three people that she was convicted of murdering were Dorothy Miller, Benjamin Fink, that was first-degree murder, and then second-degree murder for Leona Carpenter, which is interesting to me because she wasn't convicted for the death of her boyfriend. Which I can kind of see why if they really can't tie her or the man who threw the body in the river, allegedly. Right. But that one seemed the most murdery outright.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, because here's the thing. They questioned Flores and he said he didn't know there was a body in it. She just asked him to build this box. He came back. It was nailed shut. She asked him to take it to a storage unit. And then she told him actually just throw it in the river. According to nearly 60 year old woman could put a full grown man's body in a box. We're going to get to that in a minute as well because I found out some other interesting details around this case.
00:12:08
Speaker
While she was in prison, Dorothea Puente began a correspondence with a gentleman by the name of Shane Bugbee. Have you heard of him in the true crime world? The name Bugbee sounds familiar. He I think is a bit controversial. I'm going to put a link to the review that I'm getting this information from down below because he worked with Puente to make a killer cookbook.
Ethics of Crime and Culinary Arts
00:12:33
Speaker
Oh, I have heard of him because of this. Yes, never mind. Yes. He apparently has had a lot of interest in serial killers. It started when John Wayne Gacy was arrested in 1978. But anyway, he started a correspondence with Puente while she was in prison. She would send him recipes and different things like that. He in turn would sometimes send her other things. He sent her about $10 a month plus items like makeup, perfume, John Grisham books, and a subscription to Good Housekeeping. And so they had
00:13:00
Speaker
It's a good housekeeping subscription for me. I don't know if this is too glib, but you've got to grow when you're planted. So I'm reading from the review now. Again, I'll link it in our episode description. But in return, Puente has sent Bugbee dozens of recipes and poems, as well as drawings of shovels, bunnies, and frying pans. Though Bugbee lists her artwork for sale on the Chicago at night website, he says he knows it's not all hers. Quote, you can see where she signed over someone else's name.
00:13:29
Speaker
Then there's the fact that Puente has also done time for fraud and forgery. That doesn't faze Bugbee, who bought and sold over 100 paintings signed by Gacy that were actually made by a death row assembly line. I'm sorry. Sorry, that's for the local absolute horror on my face.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, this is really messed up. Bugbee suspects Puente's recipes, which include Chipotle ketchup, Mexican chicken gizzard soup. That's nasty. He is. Ketchup and chicken gizzards, Sierra. Go on, I'm sorry, I can't go. Veggie burgers and tamales prison style aren't all hers either, but he still collected them in a new book, Cooking with Dorothea Puente. I decided not to edit them, he says,
00:14:13
Speaker
Quote, I wanted to make it a look into the mind of someone who murders, unquote. I mean, connecting with people through food is a thing, but I don't want to connect with Dorothy. No, I just, I just, I googled the book and I brought it up on Amazon. Dorothy has been accused of a lot of things being a bad cook. Is it one of them?
00:14:52
Speaker
You were expected to feed and house these people for your side of the bargain. This quote is attributed to Dorothea Puente, convicted killer slash gourmet cook. I read this and I was like, why does someone feel that there is a need for this?
00:14:59
Speaker
Oh my goodness. There's a quote from Dorothea.
00:15:07
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like it's a buzzword topic, like serial killer's cookbook. I mean, you said there was chicken gizzard soup. Is there anything else that Dorothea Puente made that we should know of? It's not listed in this review. I didn't look at the book itself, but I feel like this could end up being a tangent Tuesday because I feel like you're taking something that's so serious
00:15:25
Speaker
and turning it into something that's really just almost light-hearted and like that dark humor where she's been accused of a lot of things but not of being a bad cook. And it reinforces what was said earlier when I quoted her obituary about how she preyed on shadow people. People who already weren't noticed, they weren't missed, and now something like this it kind of glamorizes the allegations surrounding Puente but it completely overshadows the victims and it kind of erases them.
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, this book, if you look at it, there's little clips of like flowers and bumblebees around her recipes. We used the word glib earlier, I'd say that's a good word to use. I mean, we take this very seriously and even we were laughing at this because this just seems ridiculous. Yeah, and it's interesting too. The review says there are transcripts of phone calls in which Bugbee questions Puente about her crimes, her past, the origin of her recipes.
00:16:13
Speaker
And finally her family, at which point she usually hangs up because she provides inconsistent and sometimes bizarre information about them.
Gender and Serial Killers
00:16:20
Speaker
But Bugbee said, I think there are a lot of unanswered questions. I don't say she's innocent, but I don't think she did it alone. She was convicted of three murders when there were seven bodies in her backyard. No one ever talked about how a 60 year old woman moved three bodies and buried them in her backyard. I asked my wife to drag my dead weight 10 feet and she couldn't do it. And she's a 25 year old woman.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, there's just a lot. I think it's meant to be a look into her mind. There's also poetry written by Dorothea Puente. You know what, I'm gonna look on thrift books and a couple of second seller sites and see if I can buy this book because I don't want to give either of these people money. I know she's dead, but I don't want to give this all their money either because I don't know how ethical this is. But I think one of us should get this book and then we should do a tangent Tuesday on steel killer books and just things like that in general. And like, what's up with that?
00:17:06
Speaker
I think that's a good idea. I'm reading a little more from this review. Bugbee claims Puente doesn't want compensation for the book. Quote, she really liked caring for people and really liked doing this. I think she wants to show her motherly side again. She's getting old and I think she wants to put something positive out there before she passes away. Nevertheless, he recently received a letter from a prosecutor stating that any profits from the sale of the book must be put into an account for victim restitution. Bugbee ignored it.
00:17:34
Speaker
I don't know. He's told John Wayne Gacy art, man. I think they're going to tell you on the card. A simply light art that was signed by, I'm sorry. It's such a con. But yes, I found that out and I was like, this is very interesting. And again, kind of sad because it blows over the actual victims and does really stick them in the shadows. And I don't know, this is more of a speculation part. This isn't the facts part.
00:17:58
Speaker
But I don't know that she purposefully killed all of those people in her backyard. It could be that some of them did die from natural causes, who knows? But the fact that she was stealing from them before they died, continued to steal from them after they died, didn't report their deaths. All of that is very, very, very wrong. Boyfriend in the box in the river. She also ran for police. We didn't mention this earlier, but one of the big things about this case is that she was allowed to walk off the scene of the crime because she looked so non-threatening.
00:18:25
Speaker
I don't think they considered her a suspect and she ran crosses where she said, can I get a cup of coffee? And they're like, yeah, sure. And then she like, she dipped like she was gone because she looks non-threatening. I think you raise a good point where maybe she didn't do all of this, but I think she definitely did enough. Yes, she was still guilty, even if she did not kill any of them.
00:18:43
Speaker
she deserves to be in prison for what she did. And another thing I wanted to mention earlier about Puente is that she looked, I think we said this at the very beginning, but she looked very non-threatening. And according to different sources that I looked at, she purposefully would alter her appearance to make herself appear older, to appear more matronly, to kind of give that caregiver image.
00:19:05
Speaker
Now, as I was doing research for this case and trying to find out more about Dorothea Puente, I just found some interesting articles about serial killers themselves.
Remembering the Victims
00:19:15
Speaker
And they were talking about the differences between men and women, which I did find interesting because we just covered David Leonard Wood. Now we're covering Dorothea Puente.
00:19:23
Speaker
Apparently with male serial killers, the victims tend to be strangers more often. They tend to kind of hunt for them, kind of like Redditor versus Pray. Whereas with women, they tend to be more nurses or different healthcare caregiver positions. And it tends to be people that they know, they kind of gather them to them instead of going out and hunting for them, which makes sense with Dorothea Puente because she had this boarding house. Right.
00:19:45
Speaker
And that's the thing, when you look throughout the scope of true crime in different cases, you see things like men are oftentimes more prone to sudden violence, like you said, against a stranger. It's often more sexual in nature, more physical in nature because they're working off of emotions. Women are almost more logical. That's why when you see like angel of death nurses, it's usually a woman or it's some sort of power struggle. It's less of an emotional appeal.
00:20:09
Speaker
they don't kill because they like to, they kill for a reason. Like with Dorothy, she's killing for money. It doesn't appear that she's killing these people because she enjoys it. She likes the act of killing. It sounds like she likes the money and she wants to have that money. It's an end to a meaning. The killing itself is to provide something that is not an emotional fulfillment, which I've always thought is very interesting because we don't think of men as emotional creatures typically. If we look at strict gender bias or whatever,
00:20:36
Speaker
You always see the things where women are so emotional and men are so logical, but when it comes to the perversion of natural emotions and you have people committing heinous acts, it's almost like it's flipped.
00:20:46
Speaker
where you see men being very emotional and being ruled by emotion, and then you see women who are being ruled by logic and a desire for something and social standing. It's very interesting. I mean, not to get too into gender roles or anything, but generally, men are providers. They want to go out and provide for people. They take care of people. That's just what we've seen throughout history.
00:21:06
Speaker
And I'm not saying women can't provide for people and they can't take care. You see like that maternal instinct or that caregiving instinct that's in a lot of women. But when you see people who are going out and committing atrocities, it's like this natural instinct is perverted. So that caregiving instinct turns into, I'm not going to be self-sacrificing. I'm not going to take care of you. I'm going to take care of me and I'm going to do it by harming you. Like you see the picture of a mother who's taking care of her children and giving for her children. And now she's like, okay.
00:21:29
Speaker
Actually, I'm going to kill people around me because I want to benefit from it. You see a man who's going to go out and take care of his family. Again, not to get too far into gender roles, but it's like a natural instinct where it's like, I'm going to go provide. That's typically attributed to a male instinct. And now it's instead, I'm going to go hunt. I'm going to go hurt these people. I'm going to fulfill my own lust before I take care of other people. And I don't know, I think that's interesting. It's a perversion of what is normal. Yeah. I think that's part of what makes it disturbing.
00:21:55
Speaker
All right, this one is a little bit shorter today, but do you have some closing thoughts for us? I feel like we don't know the whole story. I don't think that a little lady could do this by herself. And if she had, was it Montoya? If she had
00:22:10
Speaker
Montoya as someone that she could manipulate into helping her move bodies or something like that that makes a little bit more sense but it sounds like she's had some assistance and from what I've heard it sounds like she was the one convicted for all this as if she acted alone so I feel like we don't know the whole story here we don't know the full scope of the truth and to go back to that trial Henry David Thoreau once said rather than love then money then fame
00:22:35
Speaker
Give me truth and we can agree that Dorothea Puente is infamous because of her actions and she definitely did a lot for her money, but I wish there had been a little bit more truth in this case because she's just saying that she's completely innocent, but I don't think she is, especially since she drugged other people.
00:22:51
Speaker
So even if she was just trying to drug these people into submission or something like that and accidentally overdose them, I don't think she told the truth before she was incarcerated. So it's very, very sad. I feel like we say that every week. It's so sad. Obviously it's sad people are dying, but I feel so bad for these people, these like quote unquote shadow people. I really appreciate that you said all their names and you list things about them because sometimes we get so caught up in the
00:23:17
Speaker
pandemonium in the details of a case. And you just think, wow, this little old lady. And if you haven't yet, Google a picture of Dorothea Puente. She looks like the little old church grandma that you see just sitting in the back. She doesn't look threatening. She doesn't look scary. I mean, looking at her and knowing what she's done, it's a little scary. Yeah. But we kind of have to know. Yeah. You'd have to know, but you get bogged down by the details where you just think of the woman who murdered all of her tenants and this little old lady who ran from the law and has a cookbook of her recipes out there.
00:23:45
Speaker
and you forget about the people, these quote unquote shadow people. And that happens in a lot of cases and it's really sad. So I think in part, one of the reasons we talk about true crime is to remember these people. And that doesn't apply for every case. Of course, some people, their family members don't want their name associated with this. And that's perfectly valid, but these people didn't have people in their lives to remember them. And that's just very, very sad.
Community Vigilance
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, there really isn't much information about the victims or about the victim's families. We know that Montoya's social worker was looking for him, but it's just really sad because I'm sure there are many more people like this who have been killed. They're older, they're separated from their support networks. And even when it's not murder, very often elderly people who live alone, they die and they're not discovered for several days, possibly even weeks because they don't have a support network. They don't have people checking up on them.
00:24:31
Speaker
And so I think if anything, this case is a good reminder to us to be looking for those shadow people who are the people that get overlooked, they're not noticed. And it's a reminder to kind of just be aware and to reach out to other people more.
00:24:44
Speaker
That's a great reminder. I mean, I grew up in church. And one thing my church did was we went and we checked on people who I don't want to call them shadow people, but they couldn't get out of their houses. They didn't have family in the area. They were left kind of alone in the world and it would be hard to know if something had happened. So it was a group of people in my church. And that was part of their job was they would go and they.
00:25:02
Speaker
They'd check on these people, they'd bring them food, they'd sit and talk to them and make sure they weren't lonely if they needed anything. And I think even if you're not affiliated with church or anything like that, that's still a great thing to do. Get involved in your community. Know these people. Don't let them be shadow people. Let them be Mrs. Tippin down the street. Let them be someone that you know. And if you ever have a chance to just sit down with an older person or someone who's lived some sort of life experience, it's just so interesting to be able to talk to these people and just get to know them.
00:25:27
Speaker
I'm glad that at least that social worker cared enough to keep reaching out. And I know it was her job, but she escalated and she did the proper escalation. And so all these people were discovered. Yeah, sorry that it got a little bit heavy. I mean, I guess, oh, goodness, that's stupid to say. Murder is always heavy.
00:25:43
Speaker
It's not stupid. I think as people we want to talk around big emotions, but you kind of talk yourself into a bit of a hole here and it's hard not to come across as preachy. But I mean, check up on your people. Yeah, just send a text. Reach out. I mean, I think everyone's got a sad story. Like, oh, I wish I'd sent that text or I wish I'd said hi to that person. Don't let it be a sad story. Send the text. Be the weird neighbor who shows up with banana bread.
00:26:04
Speaker
Maybe not. Make sure it's gluten-free banana bread. Pre-packaged. So it's not a threat. This is just banana bread. I didn't do anything to it, I promise. But yeah, that wraps up this week's case. Thank you, Sierra. That was very well told. Next week, we'll be covering the West Memphis Three and we'll be covering it in
00:26:21
Speaker
I believe two parts depends on how much information I manage to condense this to. We covered a lot of popular cases and I think sometimes I tend to want to stray away from them just because like oh they've been covered so much and the details are salacious and they're all out there already so what's the point. But I think this leads into a lot of you know our niche interests when it comes to things. Religion is heavily involved in this case. Bias is heavily involved in this case. It's a terrible story and it's one of the things where
00:26:47
Speaker
the court case you know in this podcast we talk about the motivation the perpetration and the investigation of these cases we have the motivation which was determined by the feelings of people rather than fact you have the perpetration which is shady at best a lot of the quote-unquote facts from this case could not be determined and then you have the investigation which was very biased and then after all of that you get to the end where we still don't have justice and that is unacceptable and so I think it's an important case to talk about because it hits a lot of markers for
00:27:16
Speaker
true crime and reasons why we should talk about things like this because this case got reopened and blown up and because of a true crime documentary so we'll get to discuss that next week and then the week after as well and maybe a third week if i can't just make it shorter but yeah so that'll be next week until then be aware take care and we'll see you next week bake your neighbors banana bread bye