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Episode 008 - You Say Dentata I Say Dentata
8 Plays1 year ago
Continuing our Halloween horror series, we talk about some recent releases including Barbarian and Hellraiser as well as discussing some films missed over the course of our inspection of horror.
Sifting through decades’ worth of mass media consumption, my friend and fellow cinemaphile Scrumpy joins me in discussions on film from the low to high brow
CREDITS:
Intro scene from Jordan Peele's "Get Out" (2017) from Blumhouse Productions, QC Entertainment, Monkeypaw Productions (distributed by Universal Pictures)
Opening music: https://pixabay.com/music/id-116199/
Closing music: https://pixabay.com/music/id-11176/
Two Oceans is a creation of Siouxfire & Scrumpy in association with SiouxWIRE
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Transcript
Introduction to the Two Oceans podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Two oceans. Two oceans will begin.
Who is Andre Hayworth?
00:00:15
Speaker
See, that's Andre Hayworth. Okay, somebody we knew from back in the day. Apparently, he's been missing for six months in some affluent suburb. You know, you don't look so missing to me. That's because we found him, right? But Chris says he's acting real different.
00:00:34
Speaker
Different how? This dude's from Brooklyn, huh? He didn't dress like this. Well, I didn't used to dress like this. Plus, he's married to a white woman twice his age. And that would explain the clothes. All right. Oh, Lord. Rob Williams, TSA. I know. I know. I know. I know. OK, I'm trying to work towards this.
Wild theories: Abduction and control
00:00:54
Speaker
Look, what I'm about to tell you is going to sound crazy. You ready? All right. Try me. I believe they've been abducting black people
00:01:04
Speaker
Brain watching him, making him work for him as sex slaves as shit. Ooh, sorry about the shit. Sorry.
Setting the show with humor
00:01:16
Speaker
Welcome to the Two Oceans podcast, where myself, Sue Fire, along with my friend and talented colleague, Scrumpy, discuss film and other media through a decades-long lens of mass media consumption. In this episode, we'll be looking at new horror releases and recent viewings, as well as films we've missed over the course of our Halloween marathon.
00:01:36
Speaker
This is the Tuition's podcast, so grab your boomstick, strap on a chainsaw, and shop smart as we begin episode eight. This is how the magic happens. Right, yeah, this is episode eight.
Exploring impactful horror films
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, the magic. We need to play a sound clip of Bane from the last Batman movie, just to make us sound like we were speaking clearly.
00:02:03
Speaker
The last Nolan Batman movie. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's another topic for another day. That's another. Yeah. God, we could do the superhero genres. You know what? Actually, I got to bring this one up. One of the movies that I think we should have put down in the horror movie.
00:02:28
Speaker
cascade that we did over the last three episodes, but we didn't, is a movie called Come and See. I don't know if you've seen it. It's sort of classified as a war movie.
00:02:42
Speaker
It is pure horror. Oh, the, the Russian movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's about, the Germans are coming in and I, I mean, obviously you have world movies that are horrible, but that, that is just like pure horror. You know, that one stands out for that. There's, you know, it was funny. I have a weird relationship with that one because it got so built up and people talking about like, Oh my God, it's the greatest thing ever.
00:03:08
Speaker
And I watched it, and I said, no, it's good. I mean, it captures the horror worth it, but there's some stuff in there that's, oh, just annoying to me. There is some bad, bad acting in that movie. And just drives me up the wall. It's like, oh, everything about this movie is perfect. I'm like, nope, nope, no, it's not. And- The kid's so good, though. Yeah, oh, he's fantastic. Yeah, there's so much that is good about it. I feel bad. That's why I say I feel bad, you know, dissing on anything about it because there's some people instantly, you know, pearl clutching.
00:03:37
Speaker
Um, but there was another one, uh, um, came out roughly the same time, little before maybe, uh, called the, the ascent, uh, another, uh, from a female Russian, uh, director, if I'm not mistaken. And it's very similar in a lot of ways. Uh, and it's, I think far better, uh, cause it accomplishes what it's after. Uh, it doesn't, you know, the save the horror, the shock and everything like that, which is what come and see is right there in its title.
00:04:07
Speaker
but it meets that, it sets the goal and it meets it quite well. But in terms of Russian war movie front sort of things, I'm like, oh, that one's, I think I should prefer that one. But yes, but it is less horrific than it is transcendent, again, hence its name.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah. Come and see us again. I'm not dissing on the movie too much. See, I went into it pretty much blind. I was working my way through the British Film Institute top 100 films of all time and picking out all the films that I hadn't seen during lockdown. And I made it a point of watching every single one that I hadn't seen. And that was one of them. But I went in pretty much blind. So, you know, I was shell shocked, you know, half hour in.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Actually, that's another horror back in the 80s that was set during World War Two was The Keep. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah. I don't remember too much about it. I remember someone being lobbed in half and it being very convincing, at least to me at that age. I watched it last year, and it holds up pretty well, actually, surprising.
00:05:18
Speaker
The effects are good. The creature is great. Some of the stuff, I mean, it's not the best movie in the world, obviously, but, you know, Gabriel Byrne is a Nazi. Sure, why not? And it is, you know, early Michael Mann. So, you know, he does know how to tell a story. This one's a little jumbly and convoluted, but still works, I think, overall.
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah. So, uh, what movies have you watched this week?
Reviewing Netflix series: Storytelling and themes
00:05:45
Speaker
I've just got a bunch. Yeah. I would say this week. Well, I was, uh, I was out of town on vacation. So, um, I had a little bit of a pause, uh, in the full on the fire hose intake that we've been doing another few weeks. Um, but, uh, uh, two series, both on Netflix and then one movie, um,
00:06:06
Speaker
I'm not sure best place to start. So we started Midnight Club, the new Mike Flanagan, and just made it like four episodes in because he always does the twist in his series at four or something, some major beat happens, right? So like, okay, we'll watch the first four at least to get that. And it's still good. It's been enjoyable so far. It's not as good as Midnight Mask yet, but I don't know if he's going to top that to be honest ever.
00:06:32
Speaker
The other is, and we'll talk about this in more detail, the Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities. Yes. I think Ol Guillermo probably deserves his own episode, but I made it up to Pikmin's model. I finished that this evening, which was the first of the two Lovecraft episodes. Okay.
00:06:56
Speaker
I don't know how far did you make it through so far? Watch what, the first four? The first four, okay. Yeah, okay. So the outsider was the most recent. Right. I felt the last episodes two and three did well for having more time because I think the first two episodes were around 30, 40 minutes and the episodes from three onwards are around an hour or more. Yeah, expanded a bit, so yeah.
00:07:23
Speaker
And, uh, yeah, they, they just seem a little bit more fleshed out and, uh, yeah, a little bit more time to breathe. They felt like proper movies actually. Yeah. Um, yeah. Pikmin's modeled, man. Oh, oh my God. Anyhow. Yeah. So, um, and then, so apart from those, then, uh, the other one finally, cause it came out on at least here in the state streaming on HBO max is a barbarian.
Unpacking 'Barbarian': Why spoilers matter
00:07:48
Speaker
Yes. Which I went into pretty blindly as well. Me too. And was rewarded for that ignorance, which is a nice thing to say. This is why people, you know, because as I'm funny about spoilers, like I
00:08:07
Speaker
I won't read a full review before I go in. I might read the first few sentences and stop there, you know, just to get a gist for whether or not it's positive or negative. Um, but I, I get a lot of flack for, for, for not wanting spoilers from, you know, my friends and colleagues. Um, but this is the reason it's precisely the reason for, for movies like this, where I, I just felt like I was being taken for a ride and
00:08:37
Speaker
It was great. It was great for it. Yeah, it's hard to talk about that movie without without spoiling it. Yeah. Well, the idea that it came from a short story idea, which was basically the the open of the movie, which is how do you know you can trust someone, especially as a woman, and you're alone in a house with this other guy that you don't know?
00:09:04
Speaker
How, how, why should you trust him? How do you trust him? You know, it's a lot of those things, which the movie gets into in its overall permutations, I think as well. Well, Zach Krieger apparently read this manual that is full of all the red flags that people, especially women, need to be on the lookout for.
00:09:29
Speaker
And he took every single one out of that book and put it into that first act of the movie, which is why you're constantly on edge. You don't know why. Well, you do know why. There's something creepy. There's something very Norman Bates.
00:09:46
Speaker
Right. About the performance at the beginning. It's also Scarsgard, you know, who was Pennywise. Exactly. So it's like, OK, I don't trust this guy to begin with. But the way that they framed it, because if you don't frame it right, you kind of going like no one would ever do that. But kind of given her situation, it did seem quite realistic. And there's a bunch of those points in the movie where it's like where they're obviously playing with the horror tropes of like, well, no one would do that.
00:10:16
Speaker
But then they give you a reason. And they're good reasons. They're really solid. That's just a nice way to deconstruct and reconstruct without openly mocking or just making sure fee or that whole thing.
00:10:36
Speaker
I mean, what I really liked is it doesn't spoon feed the audience. It doesn't give us everything. And in fact, all the way to the credits, it doesn't answer every single question. It needs gaps for you to kind of puzzle it together for yourselves. And, uh, I love that in movies where, where, you know, we don't fully kind of understand what's gone on and what the backstory is around all the characters, but the casting is great, by the way.
00:11:03
Speaker
It's very good. Not that there's a very big cast. It's very intimate. But it works really, really well because it's a pretty intimate story, really. Yeah, very, very simple in its scope or scale, right?
00:11:19
Speaker
I sort of reminded me a little bit in terms of the scale of it follows, because that had a very sort of closed group at the center. Or if any, if anything, this is this is even more sort of tight knit.
00:11:34
Speaker
It was really, really good. And shall I do one of mine? So that was one of mine that I'd seen. And so just to give you a sort of heads up of the films that I have watched this week. Last weekend, it wasn't horror, but we'll pick it up another time. I went to go see Park Chan-Wook's Decision to Leave. Very good. Solid movie.
00:12:03
Speaker
very Hitchcockian, but not horror. And then I watched a movie called Next Door, and it's an older movie. I think it's from 2006. And I'm trying to think, I believe it's a Norwegian movie.
00:12:22
Speaker
And it's very Kafkaesque. And it's another one where it's good to go in blind. Just go completely blinded in this one. It tells the story of this guy, John, who's getting over the breakup of his girlfriend. And he's just thrown into this
00:12:41
Speaker
absolutely bizarre situation. It's just a maze the entire length of the movie and it plays on perception and it's got echoes of Polanski's repulsion and hints of maybe Blue Velvet in there as well.
00:13:00
Speaker
It's really good. It's it's it's only, I believe, like 60 minutes long. So it's really short. And the translation is actually quite funny. So it's called Next Door in English. But the Norwegian title is neighbor, which I'm assuming is neighbor. But, yeah, that that one was a nice old surprise because I was working my way through these
00:13:28
Speaker
Various lists of horrors and picking out the ones I hadn't seen that I look like I wanted to see but that that's an interesting one It's it's basically basically kind of a meditation on misogyny. It's it's it's good one. Um, oh another one that we both seen And I know you haven't seen in the last week, but we haven't really talked about it in detail as hellraiser. David. Oh, yes remake What'd you think?
00:13:55
Speaker
Uh, what did I think, um, I, I, I, I enjoyed the original hell hell razor from, from Barker. Um, and I went into this re-imagining with high hopes because, uh, I'd liked what I'd seen in the trailer. Um, uh,
00:14:14
Speaker
I thought it was good. I thought it was really interesting. I think it could have done with better editing because it felt a little bit loose and sort of poorly paced. But there wasn't anything wrong with the story to me.
00:14:29
Speaker
It was just the pacing felt a little bit off. I thought the Cenobites were great. I hardly noticed a character difference in Pinhead. It's pretty much Pinhead. And it doesn't retread the same story, but tells a whole new story around the puzzle box. And I think you mentioned this in an earlier episode, is that perspective of a recovering addict.
00:14:58
Speaker
And I loved the ending as well. I thought the ending was fantastic. I thought it was really good. There is a bit that I would have changed in the ending, though, which is I felt the movie ended when it ended. And then there's a sequence that is shown in the last 30 seconds of the movie.
00:15:21
Speaker
that I thought was unnecessary. I didn't need it. I don't know if you recall how the movie ends, but in terms of the main character's story arc, it ends, it feels solid, and then they sort of cut off to a sort of minor character who is getting converted and
00:15:44
Speaker
It was just weird. It felt like one of the cheesy things that you'd expect in an eighties movie. Um, and I, I, I, that kind of let me down a little bit, but overall I thought it was solid. Um, like to see if they're going to keep carrying that on. Um, but yeah, technically I thought it was super sound and, um, Oh, and Odessa, um, Asian or I forget her name. Um, she's really good as the lead. Like she's really, really good.
00:16:11
Speaker
I think a lot of the strength of this movie is coming from her performance. Okay. Yeah, totally. Well, and it's that same thing we just talked about, right? It's the motivation is... Yeah. I mean, there was still motivation, I think, in the original in Barker's original, but I think I
00:16:31
Speaker
It made more sense. That kind of thing. Yeah, no, no, no. It also set up that relationship, which it didn't really, aside from the related and the original, it's like, I could go, oh no, that's her dad. So yeah, of course she's going to do it. But you didn't really feel that, you didn't see that they had a bond. So yeah, yeah, I'll go along with that.
00:17:01
Speaker
Uh, actually any, what else have you seen in the past couple of weeks? Anything sort of stand out for you? Those are the, you know, really, those are the main things on there. And, uh, okay. You know, this, uh, again, cause it's been, I had a little, little pause, uh,
Comparing Halloween films: Risks and narratives
00:17:19
Speaker
in there. You had your holiday or viewing, you know, uh, I saw another movie, um, called all my friends hate me.
00:17:28
Speaker
Um, and this almost falls into the folk horror, uh, a little bit. The guy, um, the, the, the, it's, well, the funny thing is they describe it as a horror comedy, but I would say it's torture porn for people with social anxiety.
00:17:49
Speaker
I mean, really, in my mind, it's it's closer to Michael Haneke than, say, Edgar Wright. Yeah, because it is excruciating. It is. It is just poof. But but again, I'm talking the horror inside of a Michael Haneke. But that tension and that tension comes from
00:18:11
Speaker
uh you know the way people communicate and misunderstand each other and put their foot in it and and all this um and it does have that that sort of uh typical someone going out to the countryside meeting a local and the local is a little bit off you know uh a little bit strange um and it just goes from there i mean it's it's interesting it's it's an interesting movie um
00:18:36
Speaker
I think it is the guy who did it, Andrew Gaynard. I think this is his first proper film. And interestingly, he comes from a comedy background as well. So there's all these horror movies that are actually coming from people like Zack Craiger, who did Barbarian, is also a comedian.
00:18:56
Speaker
Um, so there's all these great kind of horror movies coming out from people who are comedians. I think it has something to do with the timing. You know, Jordan Peele who had his hands on exactly as well, but also, and also transitions for, um,
00:19:13
Speaker
Danny McBride and such the guys that you know did like eastbound it down and Foot fist way observant report stuff like that are the ones behind the New Halloween trilogy. Oh really? I didn't know. Okay, that's interesting and yeah, and So, you know, it's a weird
00:19:40
Speaker
Same idea. It's like, oh, but they're reinventing a horror in this way. Or at least looking at the thing. And that's another one of the ones actually within that timeframe. I found out another controversial one was Halloween Ends.
00:19:52
Speaker
Right. Finally came out the end of their version of the Halloween story, and they picked it up back in 18 with their first one being as if all the other Halloween movies didn't happen, only the first one happened. Right, right. And so they're just taking it and it's like, okay, so I think a lot of the criticism to get aimed at their version of the story and what they've done are based on
00:20:17
Speaker
all this other halloween knowledge of like oh you know all this other stuff happens like yeah but it didn't in this timeline you gotta just divorce from that and it's the kelvin timeline um yeah exactly so um and they they take a big risk you know without spoiling it uh they take a big risk with another major character introducing and and pushing the action forward
00:20:42
Speaker
Uh, in this one, but I think it works because otherwise everybody's like, they just wanted it to be Michael and Laurie Strode, like duking it out for two hours. And I'm like, really boring. Um, and that was the first one in these three anyway.
00:20:57
Speaker
So yeah i actually enjoyed it was it the greatest no but was it good solid yes and i at least respect them for the team and bloom house and such for actually sticking to their guns and actually.
00:21:14
Speaker
Daring to you know take it somewhere new and again much more like what carpenters original idea was. For the halloween series is that the first movie michael meyers was just supposed to be a first movie guy it wasn't supposed to buy an ongoing thing that's why halloween three is actually closer in spirit.
00:21:31
Speaker
And I love Halloween 3, but it's closer in spirit to what was originally envisioned. Yeah, exactly. And the song just starts kicking off in my head. Yeah, in my head as well. But the idea being that again, like Del Toro is doing, there would be these entries in this kind of universe, kind of
00:22:01
Speaker
But, you know, almost anthology or something in another way. And so I liked what they did with that. You know, I thought it was it's worth the watch. It's worth watching all three just give you a better sense of it again. The first one they did, I think, is still just tops. But but the others are good. This one's better than the second one, I think. So that's where it fell for me anyway. That just reminded me of something I'd seen in the news. The New York Times had an article on the Terrifier 2.
00:22:28
Speaker
Oh, right. You didn't read it, but I saw that. Yeah. And how well it's done, because it had a budget of $250,000. Again, every time I hear a budget that's small like that, I think about the Northman.
00:22:43
Speaker
you know, 90 million. And it's it's it's done really well. It's been in the top 10 for the last four weeks. It's made over five million in the US alone. I didn't see the first terrifier. I'm not big on clowns. So I might I might have to. And apparently it's extremely gory as well. Like like they went down with a gore just to prove that they're kind of king of the gore.
00:23:12
Speaker
And some people that I know who've reviewed it have given it a pretty positive review. They said it didn't need to be two and a half hours. In fact, it's probably the longest slasher movie that that's been made.
00:23:33
Speaker
And it could have done with, with some editing down, but that was pretty much kind of the, the, the main, main problem, uh, with, with the film, but mostly positive in terms of what's in there. Um, but yeah, the, the gore, gore warnings all over the shop on that one, but it's good to see an independent film make it in the top 10 like that. Yeah. I would agree. That's cool. Yeah. Um, yeah, I saw it pop up, so I'm going to check it out. But, um, yeah, the fact that no horror movie needs
00:24:02
Speaker
to be over 90 minutes. Or maybe it needs to be over 70 minutes. Yeah. Well, that's another one with barbarian, isn't it? It is very economical. And it never gives you a chance to get bored with anything. Exactly. Well, it's not fast paced. It is fast moving, if that makes sense.
00:24:29
Speaker
I think I think it morphs into several genres, you know, hearkening back to the previous three episodes. I think it does switch tact quite a few times, but it hangs together. It stays consistent. It's yeah. Yeah, it's really good.
00:24:46
Speaker
Um, actually I saw a, uh, another one. This isn't a new movie. Uh, and it's one that's been on my list for a while is, um, Shinchiro Ueda's, uh, one cut of the dead. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I hadn't seen that yet. And again, I went in. It's another one of this.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I was sitting there for the first act of the movie thinking, this is okay, but God, I've heard amazing things about this. And then having no idea of how it would go. But yeah, great, great. Take it's just very, very clever without being annoying.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of an ode to guerrilla filmmaking. That's really more than anything, it's really an ode to guerrilla filmmaking, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like kind of like nope is about, you know, a commentary on on the Hollywood system and how people of color have been treated in that as well. You know, it's just I mean, but in this nice cloak of horror, sci-fi sort of thing. So.
00:25:59
Speaker
Actually, that's another one that we've both seen now is Michael Giacchino's Werewolf by Night. Oh, man. Oh, my God. That was more fun than it deserved to be.
00:26:15
Speaker
Oh, I tell you what, Gail Garcia Bernal as well. It's so good to see him. And Disney have Diego Luna and Gail Garcia Bernal in their universes now and leading. And I remember them being in E and your mama too. E2 mama at Tambien, which, you know, those two both fresh faced. And that's a terrific movie, by the way. And that has a great
00:26:45
Speaker
You know, um, great final act. Um, but yeah, he's, he's so good in it. And, and I, again, I went in blind with this. I had no idea who he was or what he was doing. And, and is he the good guy? Is he the bad guy? What's going on? I had no clue. So you were not familiar with the comic, the original.
00:27:07
Speaker
I read it when I was a kid, but I don't really remember it, Nolan. It's not really memorable, except the fact that it's like, okay, werewolf. There's a werewolf. Yeah, there's a werewolf. And it introduced moon knight. That was really the only other thing that it did.
00:27:23
Speaker
Moon Knight's pretty terrific too. But Moon Knight I don't think was quite as daring as this. It's a different thing, but the bits that surprised me in it
00:27:43
Speaker
did, they worked so well. I like the fact that they stuck to their guns and kept it as the traditional Lon Chaney werewolf, like in the comic. But the production design, the soundtrack, the casting, it was also good. And the choice to do it in black and white. The cinematography. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact they kept it violent.
00:28:09
Speaker
Oh, totally. Well, they didn't they didn't tone that down. I mean, it's like it's supposed to be monsters, right? I mean, that's what I mean. I mean, even even the beginning when it had that kind of CBS special presentation music.
00:28:24
Speaker
uh just just fantastic it was it was really good and and and it did you know a lot of times when they try to mimic the feel of especially like 30s and 40s era cinema it always feels um that uncanny valley thing kicks in where you're like no it's not no it isn't
00:28:44
Speaker
But this felt right, despite the fact that it's set in modern times. It just happens to be black and white. They even included the real change dots.
00:29:00
Speaker
If you'll notice, if you go through and watch it again, like in cinemas when you're doing a projection on actual film, there's the little dots that come up to tell the projectionist, hey, heads up, next reel's got to start rolling, and then when to switch it. Those are even in there in Werewolf by Night.
00:29:19
Speaker
at points where they would be to change reels. I was just like, I see what you did there. That's a nice touch. And the other DC character that's introduced was great to see. Marvel. Not DC, Marvel.
00:29:37
Speaker
Well, this is the funny thing. We'll have to get into this later. But the creator of that was roommates with the creator of the equivalent. But Werewolf by Night is a classic
00:29:56
Speaker
era, horror, nothing more, nothing less, but that's okay. It's just perfect. It's just- I'm really hopeful then that means Marvel's going to, you know, the freedom, the money of Disney and the freedom of more additional programming venues, avenues to be able to, if they want to be able to build that up there.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah then okay build up the monster you know the whole midnight suns and the monster thing and all that because you know they're doing blade and they're doing black blade.
00:30:28
Speaker
or whatever that's called now. And so you've got the introduction of characters in this. I'm like, okay, you're almost there. You're getting everything there. It's like, let's just do a little thing there. And I like that it stays in black and white until it doesn't need to. And then it's like a nice,
00:30:50
Speaker
not to Wizard of Oz. Yeah, that was fantastic. And then that felt like the transition of eras right there. Exactly. And yeah, it made perfect sense. Right. I've got one more that I watched last night. All right, great. And it's another one that
00:31:12
Speaker
I think criterion and be if I both sort of mentioned this movie and it's called the untamed. And it well, OK, first of all, it's it's it's been listed as science fiction horror, but it isn't horror.
00:31:34
Speaker
It handles the sci-fi element with such a matter of factness that it barely even registers. You just instantly accept, yeah, okay, that's normal. And it has a lot more in common with
00:31:51
Speaker
Almodovar than like Vilniv in its theme and its tone. And the fantastical element of the film is kind of a MacGuffin. It's a representation of lust. And yeah, if you think of Guillermo de Toro's Shape of Water, that feels like a genre film, doesn't it? That happens to be a drama. This feels like
00:32:21
Speaker
a drama that happens to have something fantastic in it. But it's interesting. I mean, but don't go into it. Expect, you know, this is the thing. Putting it in a top 10 list of horrors, it's not a horror. It's not a horror at all. Not at all. I wouldn't even call it a thriller. I think it's a straight drama more than anything else.
00:32:45
Speaker
But it has a creature in it that is extremely well-designed and very convincing and a design that I've not seen before. But yeah, that's an interesting one. But again, it's not a horror. It's a drama that has a little bit of sci-fi thrown in there. Gotcha.
00:33:09
Speaker
The other thing I throw out that it's another series and watching it's original on shutter is the queer for fear.
Queer themes in horror films
00:33:18
Speaker
Um, which is, uh, there's been the whole, you know, uh, study thing, the, the queer horror of an idea. I never really got it. I only saw that term and then my local would do, uh, you know, a screening of something and I would like, you know, turn my head a bit. And I'm like, how was that queer horror? I don't understand. Like, just cause I never, Oh, I don't know either. So you're going to have to educate us here. Well, and it's what they do, what the series does so well, and it's, uh, it's still
00:33:50
Speaker
TV is that it's explaining a lot about, and it's all the people that are interviewing actors, directors, historians, folks like that who are all gay, and the whole thing, obviously.
00:34:09
Speaker
And a couple drag queens as well, my favorite name being Alaska Thunderfuck. Okay, you win. But the idea is that they look at, start tracing through horror from its beginnings and then through different
00:34:34
Speaker
They're kind of going either historically and a little bit into genre work that way, but to approach it is how identifying horror themes or tropes usually are.
00:34:52
Speaker
for the gay community in terms of transformation and body horror. But then they get into explicit ones where right around pre-code or after the Hays Code stuff, like cat people, where
00:35:09
Speaker
Uh, they use, uh, especially, uh, women, uh, lesbians as like, you know, this, this embodiment of evil and it has to be purged by the postcode has to be purged by the end. Something has to happen. Well, that used to be the thing, didn't it? Is that, that you knew like when we were growing up that anyone who is of any ethnic minority or any sort of minority at the beginning of the movie, he was part of a group, they're going to die. They're going to die.
00:35:39
Speaker
But this one looks, you know, so it focuses the lens though a bit more intently like when they're explaining, you know, when you have, you know, a lifelong woman who's been letting lesbian as long as she's always known, you know, sort of thing, rather than coming to realization later or something and some that realize watching something you're like, Oh, I'm going to the same thing that character is going through.
00:35:59
Speaker
and kind of realizing they're gay or getting in touch with it or having this other expression. That's really interesting. Having them provide the perspective and say, yeah, I watched this one as a kid and I'm like, oh yeah, this is cool. They'll interview like four people who are all like, oh yeah, that was clear as anything to gay people what was going on there. And I'm like.
00:36:17
Speaker
Really, I just thought they were friends or you know something like that. I don't know they're just good friends. Just a nerd. Yeah, we all do. We all do. But the so the take on and they keep doing different things like they did like the female vampire.
00:36:39
Speaker
Vampirism and female vampirism especially. So they're taking each episode and breaking it down. And it's really insightful because then they'll watch something, some other thing on it like the top 101 scariest moments in horror. And they're talking about the same movie. I'm like, oh, but there's all this other, you know, having watched the queer for a few, there's this whole other subtext there that
00:37:00
Speaker
It's so much more interesting and it's like, okay, it's really fascinating. It's really well done. They keep it brief, but it also illuminates a lot. They have a whole episode basically on James Whale.
00:37:14
Speaker
Right. OK. Oh, as well. There's a name I've not heard in a long time. Yeah. Wow. So, you know, it's that same idea, though. It's like, OK, if you're out, you know, what happens to you? Why? You know, in his tragic story as well. And just, you know, so many issues, real life are tied into, you know, their art and then what they're trying to express or not trying to express, you know, this this idea. So it's been it's very much worth the watch.
00:37:43
Speaker
for i'd say anyone of any audience but especially if you're just some dumb ignorant middle-aged white guy like me who had no idea what this queer horror thing was um and they go through it you know very well it and it doesn't feel like it's beating over the head because there's a lot more of the historical
00:38:00
Speaker
Uh, to it, uh, saying, okay, at this time, here's what was changing and here's, here's how it's reflected here, but here's how we saw it here. So, you know, they can go through, uh, the different versions of invasions of the body snatchers, uh, with that lens and, you know, start looking at all these other films, uh, that way.
00:38:18
Speaker
And these are going to be like, okay, calling out. It's like, okay, these are clearly done by men made by men, but you've got, you know, uh, you know, hot vampire lesbians going at it. Well, that's still going to appeal to us. You know, we're not going to say boo on you, but you know, boo on you for how you made
00:38:40
Speaker
Two movies I'm going to ask if you'd seen gods and monsters with Ian McKellen and Brendan Fraser about James Whale. That's a great movie. And did you see The Love Witch? Yes. Yeah. Which is a whole pastiche of that sort of late 60s, early 70s kind of filmmaking.
00:39:03
Speaker
Now that you've explained that, there was something that I'd seen. There's a guy that I follow on YouTube. His channel's called Renegade Cut, and he's mostly political, but he did do one episode about a nightmare in Elm Street called The Gay Nightmare. And- Do you have another second one, or? Yeah, I think it's the second one. I mean, that's the gay one. That's the reputation it has. It's like, that's the gay one.
00:39:31
Speaker
But he kind of goes through that that entire secondary story and theme to the movie. And it's really interesting. It's only like 15 minutes long. But I found that interesting. So this series on Shutter sounds like it.
00:39:47
Speaker
Might be good to watch as well. Because otherwise we're blind to this whole other subtext. It just doesn't register until someone actually sort of explains it. So yeah, that's cool. Cool. Right. So I made a big list of all the movies that have been popping into my head this week. And it's just been driving me nuts, some of the stuff that
00:40:14
Speaker
we could have brought up during some of the genre hopping that we're going through. Tetsuo, the Iron Man, Body Horror, right there, right?
00:40:29
Speaker
Um, and, and I remember going to see Tetsuo, uh, in the theater when it came out, um, wholly on, on the description of it. And that was so short. I think it was only a single sentence. It said it was a Japanese movie. Um, uh, said it was well received. Uh, it's about this guy. He gets a bit of metal in him and then the metal starts taking him over. And I was like, I'm sold. Right. That sounds great. And it was good. And actually it has stop motion as well.
00:41:00
Speaker
And then there is a movie I had seen a couple of years ago called Tale of Tales. And it's got like Salwa Hayek in it, Vincent Castle, Toby Jones, John C. Riley's in it. And it's kind of like a Grimm's fairy tale.
00:41:23
Speaker
But if you know anything about Grimm's fairy tales, they're horror. They're just pure horror. So there is quite a lot of blood in that. But that's quite good. Mad God for Avangard. How did we not mention that? What's going on? We talked about it on its own for the summer. We did, yeah. Yeah.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think maybe we just thought, okay, we'll put that in the backseat now. We won't talk about it ever again. Did you see a cure for wellness, by the way? Gore Verbinski kind of Lovecraftian movie?
00:41:58
Speaker
Uh, I know what it is, but no, I did not see it yet. It's, it's not bad. It's, it's, it's a decent, solid little movie. Um, uh, good cast. Um, uh, yeah, don't want to spoil anything, but, uh, it's, it's, uh, check it out. Check, check out the trailer. If you like, like the looks of the trailer, then, then you'll probably like that. Um, oh, under the skin from Jonathan Glaser, uh, for, for that kind of sci-fi horror, um,
00:42:27
Speaker
And maybe a little bit of body horror in that as well. Um, and Ooh, one I'd seen this summer. Um, it's a Greek movie called dog tooth. Um, Oh yes. Love me some dog tooth. It's one of those ones that love and I, I'd love it because I can't recommend it to pretty much anyone. We can't recommend, you know, you've got to really know who you're recommending it to.
00:42:55
Speaker
Well, well, well, the, the director went on to do killing of a sacred deer. And that's another one. He can't really recommend to people. It's like, well, Hey, watch this. That'll sort. Yeah. I know movies are really popular bubble.
00:43:11
Speaker
Yeah, that is something. But it's so well done and such earnest. Yeah, very, very tense movie that. Or Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue wasn't even thinking of animation, but that is almost psycho levels of horror. I don't know if you've seen it. Perfect Blue, it's an anime.
00:43:41
Speaker
Oh, no, I have it. I'm aware. Ooh, ooh. Check it out. Check it out. There's so much film history and it's so tense and yeah, really, really good. Unfortunately, the director died in the last few years, but every movie that he made was was really good. Smankfire, I'd consider some of his movies horror for sure. Yeah. Even Alice, you know.
00:44:09
Speaker
And what else did I find? Oh, eating Raoul or society later around 90. Oh God. Yeah. Society's off on its own. Brian Usen is like, screw this producing thing. I'm going to make a movie. You
00:44:36
Speaker
I'm just going to make one memorable movie and that's it. Boy did he. I'm going to put all the gunpowder into the cannon. Exactly. Never use that cannon again. I'm going to call in the airstrike on my own LC, man.
00:44:58
Speaker
I don't know if you saw a movie called and I still to this day don't know what I think about it. I think it was came out around 2013. Thereabouts called The Woman.
00:45:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, that's what I think about the ending. Right. I loved No, I was annoyed with that movie up until that basically that switch in the final act. And now I and then it was like, Oh, I love this movie. The movie was pissing me off before then. And then it just right now. And I'm like, Thank you. That yes. And there's the sequel. I've had it in my list. And I have no money this weekend. The Darlin
00:45:41
Speaker
No, it's not from the same director though, is it? It might be. It's the same story, same actors. It's the next story. I don't know if he did it or not, but that one is supposed to be fun. This is basically like, okay, if you liked the woman, you're going to like this one. If the first one offended you, good, but also you're probably not going to like the second one. Right. Okay. Okay.
00:46:07
Speaker
Huh. Interesting. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that is a pretty open-ended ending for sure. Well, my favorite thing is that there was a video you can find of it. It's when he was showing it, I think it's Sundance, and some woman walked out at the beginning or had to be escorted out because she was so offended by the premise.
00:46:25
Speaker
Right. And, and he's out there with her. She's just like, he's screaming at without having watched the whole fucking movie. And he's just like shaking his head. Just like, come on. Oh, I just looked it up. The sequel was direct. Darlin was directed by Pollyanna McIntosh, who was who is the woman, the titular character. She directed the
00:46:51
Speaker
Well, the first movie was Lucky McGee. Yeah, Lucky. Who did May, which is another one. Right. Oh, I can't say enough good things about that. Did you say teeth as well? I did not. Right. Okay. For no good reason, except for the fact that in college when I was in a, I did a screenwriting class and I wrote a story that sounds almost identical.
00:47:17
Speaker
Right. Mine was more sci-fi and horror than that, but basically it was the creature lives off male genitalia, the creature that lives in her vagina, lives off male genitalia instead. That was my thing for it. Not pretty good. Everybody around me was like, you can't submit that. Our professor is also the lead of the lesbian film studies program, very lesbian. They're like, you can't submit that to her, dude. I'm like, watch me.
00:47:47
Speaker
And she liked it. Her critiques were very valid. She read it and like, oh, OK, here's what you're trying for. Here's where you can fix it. Here's what you can improve on to think about. Very professionally, excellently, what a professor is supposed to be. But everybody is looking at me like I am literally insane for submitting this story. I'm like, yeah, I'm used to it.
00:48:09
Speaker
But, uh, so no, I haven't done a long story. No, I haven't seen teeth yet. I wrote it. It was me. Uh, did you see the, um, uh, we posted notes.
00:48:26
Speaker
Oh, hang on
'Candyman' remake: Race themes and strengths
00:48:27
Speaker
a second. That's reminded me something. There was an article in the paper today. I think it was in The Guardian, and they were interviewing Garth Merengi, who used to do a lot of comedy. And the quote from him was, many writers cite me as an influence, and I'll be suing them all.
00:48:58
Speaker
Did you see the remake to Candyman?
00:49:03
Speaker
I did. I watched it early when it came out earlier this year and I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed that as well. I thought it was even, I thought it was better than the original. The original was fine. Yeah, that was my Canadian horror movie. It was fine, but I never really went back to it. Just so that he had a black villain protagonist sort of thing, but I like what they did with it in this one and the setting and the, you know, the updating that they made. I mean, they were very,
00:49:29
Speaker
I don't know, tepid about the race element in the first movie, I thought, you know, that they, you know, they sort of stayed middle of the road. And yeah, like you said, I thought it was fine. But yeah, I really enjoyed the new one. And I like the way that they
00:49:46
Speaker
handled the character as well and that with the actor and how it harkened back to the original and it was a continuation even though it has exactly the same name as the original which is confusing.
00:50:01
Speaker
Oh, another big one that I thought because as this movie has been for, you know, for a very long time held the throne for kind of the ghostly haunting movie. And that's the Peter Reid acts, the changeling with, you know, George C. Scott, George C. Scott, George C. Scott, the way he acted when he was old, everything's like that. That's great because I mean, some great movies, you know, that and
00:50:31
Speaker
Exorcist 3, and hardcore, not horror, but excellent one, but he's always George C. Scott. I'm Patton. Exactly. Well, Peter Medak, who directed that, I just took a look at his... I realized I'd met him.
00:50:53
Speaker
Peter Beedock because as that the thing I went to at the Lincoln Center, they had a movie. Well, he had two of his movies. One was Let Him Have It, which was sort of British historical thing about how to police episode and the craze. And he directed both of those and he came. I brought those two films. We had a bit of a double feature and we had a Q&A session with them.
00:51:19
Speaker
But aside from those movies, he's not done a great deal, but he has worked on The Wire, which is like my favorite television series of all time. Hannibal. And then this is a weird one. This is this threw me a bit. He did Species 2. Yes, he did.
00:51:40
Speaker
He was the reason I went and saw that stupid piece of crap in the theater. I enjoyed the first one. I'm like, oh, Meenak's doing the second one. Sweet. Oh, oh, no. Oh, no. It was the same reaction I had to Highlander 2 when I'm in the theater. Five minutes in, I'm like, oh, oh, oh, I think I've made a terrible mistake.
00:52:01
Speaker
Wait a minute, I must be in the wrong auditorium or something. This can't be right. We haven't talked about Nicholas Rogues Don't Look Now as well. I think we got to get that in there if we're going to have a Halloween series of questions. Boy, you know, I think that effect in that movie when you have the reveal
00:52:27
Speaker
of the face. It reminded me a lot of some recent movies that we've seen where there is shock value. And if you were just be like, OK, right. If you'd seen the face in the beginning, be fine. You know, it would be weird to be fine. But it's the, you know, hiding it for so long and then sort of doing that reveal is. Yeah. Oh, man. Very well. You let. Yeah.
00:52:56
Speaker
And did you, you must've seen this at some point, Eyes Without a Face? Yes. The whole black and white movie, The Daughters, just figured, and yeah. Yeah, also the Seattle song, but yeah. Yeah. That's the first thing I hear in my head, which I like.
00:53:22
Speaker
Well, I remember that movie being, you know, they gave it a cover, they slapped a cover on it that was so schlocky when VHS tapes were out and you had the video stores and all this. So it could sit alongside things that were sort of more modern horror movies. And you sort of picked it up, then you looked at the back and you're like, what?
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I started this week. I found a copy online of that Russian movie, Voivi. Oh, Voivi. Yeah. And I've got about a third of the way through before we started this episode. Okay. Get past that third.
00:54:13
Speaker
It's it's it's have you seen it? Oh, yes. Right. OK, fantastic. But you've got to get past the first half of the movie before it gets fantastic. I think I think you mentioned this because, yeah, when you said the guy was dumb, I didn't quite realize how dumb he was going to do. But just totally not. And it's not 80s teenager movie stupid. He's dumb in a whole like annoying way, like like Russian
00:54:43
Speaker
doesn't annoy him. No wonder they only live to be 30 or something in a way. He's meant to be a philosopher. I know. It's like, wow, I guess he couldn't do anything else because he's useless. Again, until you get through the first half of the movie, then it goes and
00:55:05
Speaker
I'm gonna finish it finish it tonight. I mean, it's already has a couple brilliant bits in my mind, which is I'm waiting for it that to be sustained. Yeah, I mean, really, you know, it, that guy, you know, would
00:55:27
Speaker
Mother Teresa would punch him in the balls. Yeah, right. I mean, he's in a tunnel. He beats someone up. He goes out of the tunnel. Someone runs up to him and goes, someone in the tunnel has been beaten up. And he's like, oh, shit, really? Yeah, you did it. Sociopath. Also, we neglected to mention anything of the early Peter Jackson.
00:55:58
Speaker
This we we we mentioned it a couple of times. Well, I think maybe, but, you know, this is between. I mean, the main one being, you know, dead alive or that's the U.S. version, brain dead brain dead. Yeah, it was called brain dead over here. Yeah. Brain dead here is actually a friend, a Frank Hennelutter movie that is also fantastic.
00:56:27
Speaker
And he'd made it after Basket Case and before Franken-Ochre. So, I mean, that's a trilogy worth exploring right there, I would argue. But no, Dead Alive, it's like, I remember finally getting to see that in the theater, because that was the only way stuff was getting distributed. I saw that, Nan meet the Feebles, both theatrical release.
00:56:48
Speaker
here once we could finally get them in the States. Yeah. And that game changer all over. I mean, it's because it's, it's comedy, it's horror, you know, but it's also one of the goriest things you're going to see probably for the most part. It got like banned here for the longest time. And you know, it had all the stickers on saying like finally released because the sensors are allowing it.
00:57:16
Speaker
Oh, I bet, yeah. Did you see Black Sheep, by the way, talking about New Zealand? Yes. I had to think there for a second. I'm like, that sounds so funny. Yes. Yes, I did. Yeah. Because I had some friends that worked there for, oh, they moved down there and worked there for a while, like 10 years or something. So they were telling me like, oh, you've got to see this movie. It's hilarious. I'm like, okay. I watched it. I'm like, that was my introduction to kiwi humor.
00:57:45
Speaker
which it's like, oh, that's different than...
00:57:50
Speaker
my normal humor, but now I appreciate, especially I think now more through the lens like of YTT and Clement. Yeah. Fly to the concords. The fly to the concords, but then paranormal activity and what we do in the shadows. Yeah. But the first paranormal activity being much more Kiwi humor-based like Black Sheep.
00:58:18
Speaker
much closer to that where it's much more like the entire country is just full of straight men, like the pairing of straight man versus comedic, straight man prop versus comedic, the actual comedian. But it's like the whole country is filled with that. So that's what they're making fun of.
00:58:38
Speaker
Okay, what if we had a zombie invasion or what if we had a duplicate invasion or what if we had a ghost or you know, all those this thing then that's That's where the humor derives from and once you understand that or you know, you know that It makes it it's like okay now I get it now. This is funny. Okay now I can laugh because I'm otherwise I'm just like the first time I watch black sheep I was just like
00:59:01
Speaker
You know, people who die are laughing about this thing and I'm just like, okay, I mean, it's kind of funny. I'm kind of like, yeah, okay. That's a good joke. Thanks. You're all sick.
00:59:14
Speaker
wrong. Well, I don't know if you saw on Facebook, I posted up a list that BFI did for like the best horror since 1922. I didn't make my way through it yet. But there's some that jump out at me that I'm just thinking I've never heard of these and that's saying something like 2022. It's a film called Speak No Evil. It's like
00:59:40
Speaker
What? I've not heard of this. And in the past 10 years, 2019, a movie called Atlantis, which I've not heard of. Also, I have thoughts on Speak to Evil, but we're drawn to the end here. I will save them for another time.
01:00:01
Speaker
I have notes. You say notes I would give to Michael Henneke for some of his stuff. I have notes. Everybody's going on and on about this. I'm like, okay, it's not that great. Here's why. Let me tell you how you're wrong. Let me start a podcast to tell you how you're wrong.
01:00:20
Speaker
There are some things on here where I'm like, I don't know if that's hard. You know, you're stretching. That must have been a bad year if you're considering that horror. And yeah. And then what was another one that sort of jumped out at me was just do one more, which, put one in. We are.
01:00:48
Speaker
Kill List is on there. In 2012, Berberian Sound Studio. And the funny thing is, I keep seeing this in lists of horrors for the 2010s. And I've not seen it. It's an Italian. Yeah, the name's familiar. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, the name's familiar. I have not seen it either.
01:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And again, I like to go into these things blind, so I don't want to read too much about it. Great. Well, I think that we're just coming up to the top of the hour here. So what are we doing next? Is horror over, or is there still more to be said? Well, I would think we would want to do one as a wrap up. Yeah.
01:01:36
Speaker
We'll have a final like, okay, so what do we learn? What do we, what do we do? You know, it's kind of thing, like just to kind of summary, it could be like, yeah, it doesn't have to be the whole next episode, but it can, uh, uh, be something that, uh, we, we, you know, we, uh, we touch on and, and, you know, basically what we've learned.
01:01:56
Speaker
through doing this as an experiment of sharing this information and this and kind of going back and through and then what we've and what we're looking forward to with it. Maybe. Cool. Well, that sounds good. That sounds good. I mean, I mean, the big takeaway for me is your idea of Forrest Gump being inside of an alien spaceship and kind of accidentally saving the day. So.
01:02:45
Speaker
This dude's from Brooklyn, huh? He didn't dress like this. Two oceans.