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Arc 13: Snare - Dissecting Worm
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This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass.
Complete list of potential triggers: here
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Dissecting Worm: The sister podcast to Brockton Bay Book Club where our hosts Jacob and Allan discuss adapting Worm for television.
Episode Description: "Slaughterhouse 9: S Class threat, do not engage, contain and delay if possible. Prep target area for incendiary deployments. Dissection not an option."
Get in contact with us @brocktonbaybc
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Timestamps:
(00:00) - Introduction
(01:10) - Dissecting Begins
(37:37) - Zencastr
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Worm' and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
Worm is a web serial by J.C. McCray, also known as Wildbo. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans.wordpress.com or donate to Wildbo's Patreon at patreon.com slash wildbo. This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete
Casual Banter and Setting the Tone
00:00:25
Speaker
list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.
00:01:12
Speaker
Take that you worms. It's dissecting worms time. Welcome to the weaker half of the two podcasts. Apparently, you know, we, we knew that we knew that going in where I didn't were you. I think we're, we're yeah. Unique. I like that word.
00:01:33
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back, Alan, as always. Thank you, Jacob. Michael,
Overview of Arc 13's Complexity
00:01:38
Speaker
as always. Hello. Thanks for stopping by. We're looking at arc 13 of Worm today. I don't know if either of you had difficulty with this arc.
Structuring Arc 13: Suspense and Pacing with Slaughterhouse Nine
00:01:54
Speaker
I don't know what it was for at least the first half of this. I don't know. I just had so few notes.
00:02:04
Speaker
Oh, I was getting texts saying that I need a little more time to read this. Yeah, there was a few of those. I have a lot of notes, but they're not, it's all about kind of structuring the moments here because, and we'll kind of go through it chronologically, I guess, kind of as we normally do, but I think a lot of this is going to really depend on how we end up wanting to structure the season. Cause we've already talked about,
00:02:33
Speaker
probably moving around the slaughterhouse nine and eludes, and we've talked about maybe delaying some of the reveals and some of that stuff, toning down some of the gameplay elements of it in favor of suspense, that kind of thing. So I think a lot of that is going to really shape and inform some of the moments in this arc.
00:02:56
Speaker
But that being said, I think we can leave some of that for a future season two recap because we're going to have some more answers at that point. I was
Pacing Decisions: Cutting the Mannequin Fight
00:03:08
Speaker
going to suggest the same thing. Yeah. So kind of just looking at the arc itself, we can still kind of go through it. There's some, it's a meaty arc. There's a lot in here. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Interesting. Let's dive in. Let's just get for it. Let's just go and dive right in here.
00:03:24
Speaker
I'm going to dive right in and say I think the first couple of chapters get cut. I don't think there's much. I think the big thing here, because again, trying to approach it from like episodes of a show, the big moment of the last episode is going to be Mannequin versus Taylor. That's the big fight.
00:03:48
Speaker
So then to come in here and have another mannequin fight right away feels like really poorly paced. So I honestly would just cut that out. He's so cool though. No, no, he's awesome. I'm not saying ignore it. Yeah. Also, I've thought he's cool in the past. He gets decidedly less cool every time I read. No, I won't scan for this.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I think it's because he kind of is like, he's getting his ass kicked over and over again. And the reason he attacks so quickly is like, he's not about to let this go. So like, it's very desperate, you know? Like,
Character Rules and Visual Imagery in 'Worm'
00:04:31
Speaker
come on, man. She said no. Like, yeah. He has two, so I mean, his coolest moment in the whole story is his meeting with Arms Master.
00:04:44
Speaker
Coolest moment. I do love the imagery at this time of his face and the laughter. We finally have a mouth. I didn't realize. I always imagined it was just faceless. I think he is faceless until... That's how I read it. I might be wrong there. I think you're right. He puts in a face in order to... That's because that's how he disperses the gas.
00:05:11
Speaker
And it's that shattering laugh, which, you know, just creepy. Yeah. It's really creepy. It's great imagery. I mean, you could have a ton of fun with it. I just feel like, which I think is great if we do it. Yeah. We do it later. Yeah. That's fine. Also, we've talked about before, I don't like how many dumb rules are going on and how many times we talk about these rules. Yeah. No, I agree. Like.
00:05:39
Speaker
This is right off the bat. We're talking about the rules engagement delivered. That probably should have been, you know, the beginning of last episode. I think even before Taylor got attacked, you know, honestly.
00:05:54
Speaker
Well, and
Character Transitions and Narrative Cohesion
00:05:55
Speaker
I think we're on the same page here. I think you just simplify that way, way down. I think you put them earlier. Again, depending on how we want to shake up the season. But I think the rules are simple. It's like, don't interfere with us. Don't leave the city, that kind of thing. Or we kill everybody.
00:06:17
Speaker
Like that's, that's basically cause I mean, that is the main rule, right? They don't want anybody leaving and they don't want anyone. Exactly. Yeah. So don't interfere with us and our candidates don't leave and candidates don't leave the city. Otherwise bone saw does a plague.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah, which I don't even think you need to know that. I think you just need to say, Hey, nobody leaves the city. And when people go, Oh, you know, in the, in the PRT, they're like, why don't we do it? And they're like, uh, you remember fucking Dickville, Ohio. And I'm like, Oh shoot, not Dickville.
00:06:59
Speaker
What the hell? We apologize to all of our cli- Yes. Oh, gosh. Now we don't let out, to be honest. Just put a bleep over the city. Over the city, yeah. Yeah. Just know it's Ohio. That's all I may need to know.
00:07:19
Speaker
Anyway, but no, I agree. I think, I think kind of on the same page. This is too confusing. Again, it reads really well. It's really fun. Like Jack, Jack's interlude from last time. Um, it's really fun to read and sort of get into the world building from a, from a reader's perspective, but trying to put that on screen and have it make sense and paste well and easy to follow. It's just, it's not going to work. I don't think there's any, anywhere that works.
00:07:46
Speaker
You could maybe throw in, I think maybe throwing in cherish and imp striking the deal, trying to kill bone saw on it failing. I think that's pretty
Tactical Planning and Alliances
00:07:55
Speaker
good. I think that's how you open it. Yeah. I think that's your cold open. Yep. You know what? Right in the town, interludes the cold open. Let's go. I really like Aisha's interlude as a, as a quick scene. Um,
00:08:12
Speaker
would be really, really cool. A cool way of highlighting her power for the first time where the audience is kind of in on it. Because we've talked before about her, about clever ways that we can mask her power from the audience, like just kind of putting her in the background and things like that. But being able to have her front and center where everybody's just not aware of her would be really fun to see kind of play out.
00:08:38
Speaker
And yeah, it's quick, she fails her assassination attempt, runs into Cherish. They cut on the tension of striking a bargain. Yep, yep. I think which is a great deal. It makes this a lot more interesting with all the different politicking you've got going on between different characters and organizations. I think this is another one. Add in, makes it nice and fun.
00:09:05
Speaker
I'll be honest until the back half of this, I really don't have that many notes for this podcast. Yeah. Most of my, most of my notes come on, come on the back half as well. Um, so I guess we can, we can kind of get to that part pretty quick. And I feel like that's, we're going to spend a chunk of our time. Uh, before we jump there, do we want to go over the last interlude with picket or do you want to save that for the end?
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah. Let's just talk about that now. Um, because, because once again, I think this is going to bring up the director issue. Um, we were discussed before we're about to go. Yeah. Let's talk about the directors. Bunch of directors really quickly spoilers, but this is a spoiler podcast. So you have been warned. We are spoiling things. Yeah. We're about to go to through directors, like a box of tissues. Um, and you know, it starts with Piget. We're going to lose Piget.
00:10:05
Speaker
Thomas Calvert doesn't even get to show up to work, tag shows up, and then I honest to God can't remember who they replaced. So I'm just gonna say it was Miss Militia and they never got somebody because, you know, everything, well, it's something like, I mean, I think you're kind of right. Somebody took over, but we don't see them, I guess. So we're just gonna go through so many of them and so quickly too.
00:10:35
Speaker
It makes me wonder how, if we can do better transitioning these people, um, like either combining or maybe dropping one, one consideration is Thomas Calvert is the PRT director this whole time, which, you know, helps with the whole like,
00:11:01
Speaker
ruling the city, I think, like I control the overworld and the underworld. So, you know, that's the goal there, complete control. You could have it. I think maybe having Piggo have an assistant, a deputy director that's always with her, you know, that's Thomas, especially this would be the highlight episode where he's like buckled down, helping her with all the paperwork because it's just too much. And she's like,
00:11:28
Speaker
You know, Hey, Thomas go home. And she's like, no, ma'am. Like I signed up, you know, knowing that this was going to be a lot. And I'm here to take as much off your plate as possible. And, you know, when later it's revealed that like, Oh, she's dead. Who takes over. Oh, her, you know, the deputy director, which is
Slaughterhouse Nine Strategy and Interactions
00:11:49
Speaker
our boy. So.
00:11:52
Speaker
you know, I thought that would be a good idea if we showed him around. Cause otherwise he's just like, Oh, this guy's getting transferred in. Oh, it's, you know, it's, it's coil, then like, he doesn't even make it to work. I know. It's so quick. I agree. I, yeah, I agree with that. I think, um, I think
00:12:14
Speaker
Calvert has to be introduced earlier. I do like the idea of him taking over from Pickett as opposed to just starting with him, because I think it plays into a bit more of his sort of tone as a villain. It feels sneakier if he pulls like a house of cards, right? He's been there the whole time and is working his way up the ladder, and he's just getting to the top quickly because he can use his power to do that.
00:12:41
Speaker
Um, feels a bit more, uh, validating for his character than, and just being introduced with him in charge already. Yeah. Um, so I just think, you know, you pepper him in to other scenes, you know, when she's like, Hey, you guys look like shit, you know, have, and during the breakdown meeting, maybe have Thomas be there and be like, Hey, you know, and just literally say like a third of her lines. Yep.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I like that. And then that, that lets us, that lets the picket fall, feel, feel a bit better too, I think. Yeah. It feels going to be easier to sell that. Yeah.
00:13:34
Speaker
Post that's yeah, I was going to say we won't worry too much about post Calvert yet. That's like a season three thing. End of season three thing. Um, but after that, I feel like there's some ways we can work around that too. Yeah. Other things in this. Yeah. Uh, you know, I'm trying to remember exactly how long the slaughterhouse nine have been around, but perhaps having
00:14:00
Speaker
Uh, you know, instead of watching the video, the body cam footage, which, you know, we could absolutely do the found footage thing for Siberian tearing apart the proctor it. Yeah. Yeah. Having maybe that just be something that like, she was there when it happened. You know, she was one of the PRT officers when they got torn apart and, you know, ran through all the.
00:14:27
Speaker
And we don't even need to show the fight. Just, you know, the heroes are like, we got this. They go in there. They absolutely get their asses kicked. Cars get overturned as, you know, Siberian leaves. And then what's her face goes in there and is like, you know, sees the one hero trying to heal the other one. And then, you know, one guy's got like, you know, no hands or his dad or whatever, you know, and, you know, she's coming in with the flashlight and the gun and all the heroes are just destroyed.
00:14:56
Speaker
And that sort of could be her moment of like heroes are weak too. Um, and they need to be organized because they went in there without a plan and they got, you know, they got their ass man. See now that works so much better as our cold open. Cause you open on, you open on legend, Eidolon, Alexandria, and a hero.
00:15:18
Speaker
making their way through. It looks like an operation and only hero looks at a place here to the audience because we've never seen him before. So it looks like this is something going on currently. That's how you're playing it up. You're not playing it up as a flashback. They interact with Siberian. They're like, what the fuck is this? You know, reword that however you want to. Yeah. Now you're starting to put the pieces to the audience and starting to put the pieces together like, oh, wait.
00:15:40
Speaker
This is the previous thing. And then play that out just like you said. She goes crazy, yada, yada. Hero dies. It's a bloodbath. They're all over the place.
00:15:50
Speaker
you know, PRT officers in there trying to clean things up. Just trauma struck, you know, you can see it in her eyes and then you just do the whole fade to her eyes, you know, sitting behind her desk today. You just make that visual connection of Pigott's history. Um, yeah, I think that works beautifully. I mean, we didn't really, we don't really have a good like interlude for
00:16:20
Speaker
Or I say post credit scene for arc 12. So what if we did the, I, you know, the Aisha as the ender, you know, she's sneaking in there. She cuts the throat, goes to the bathroom and then cherish goes, let's strike a deal and episode. Yeah, I like that. I like that too, because that gives, that gives picket a bit more, uh,
00:16:49
Speaker
bit more of a character for as little as she's really here. It's
Character Alliances and Moral Ambiguity
00:16:55
Speaker
nice when these types of characters do have some personality to them. Do you have some agency? Because it makes their eventual demise all that much more impactful. Yeah. No, I like that. I like putting her in the scene there because it makes sense to like any director
00:17:18
Speaker
most likely came from, in this world, most likely came from fieldwork, from a fieldwork beginning, you know, it just would make sense. So I like that. I mean, I think they even show that off with like, I'm pretty sure almost all the directors were in the field and talk about fieldwork that they were in. I mean, Thomas Calvert was there, you know, questionably, but he was there during the nil bog incident. So was,
00:17:48
Speaker
Pig it. I'm pretty sure, uh, you know, tag is there at the simmer quarantines. Um, I'm trying to remember the other two, but they definitely gave off like military officer vibes. So no. Yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like, I feel like we're doing good with those. Uh,
00:18:17
Speaker
Do you want to jump back to where we were then? Yeah. Yeah. We got anything else to I think, um, I think the rest, just the rest of that, the, uh, picket interlude can be left as is, it's just, you can just wrap up that, that scene with her conversation with legend and, uh, you know, the little, the little talk to the words and everything like that, that can, that can pretty much just stay as is.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, let's jump back here, back into the old arc. So if we're going to move past the mannequin fight, we get to this sort of planning phase with the undersiders, the travelers, and coil, obviously. I like this bit and I like it, because in my mind,
00:19:12
Speaker
again depends on exactly how we want to restructure the season but in my mind this feels like a really nice follow-up to the attack on Taylor's territory and and Shatterbird like this feels like you know if especially for toning down the rules and all that kind of stuff like this feels like the villains going you know fuck the slaughterhouse 9 let's hit him where it hurts how do we go after him
00:19:42
Speaker
And so I really like this as, it makes more sense to me if I was watching a show that this type of scene planning and then the attack would be the bulk of a episode following the previous episode, if I'm making sense. I do like that. In this case, yeah, I think that and then we skip
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, I just agree. Well, especially actually, and as we're kind of talking out loud here, especially if you do want to move the picket interlude as the cold open, cause that interlude ends with them planning an attack on the nine and the kind of hint towards the stash of Bakita weapons, which is so cool. Yeah, yeah. Let me flip all the way over there. Cause I wasn't looking at that. I was just going off of vibes at the time. Yeah.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, Oh, another thing I have in that interlude, um, I've talked about, I'm a huge clock blocker fan. And, uh, I also think that having more people be like defensive of Taylor on the PRT side would be beneficial. Um, or just like kind of showing this back and forth, even in the hero side.
00:21:14
Speaker
Cause there seems to be just a lot of like, Oh man, what do we want? Like, well, we, we had, not only did we know, like, because arms master talked about it, it got outed publicly, like civilians. No. I was at Sierra even asks Taylor, you know, Hey, didn't you want to be a hero? And she's like, yeah, I really wanted to be a hero. I was going to be a hero.
00:21:41
Speaker
And then I got caught up in this and, you know, everybody screwed me over. Granted, you know, Taylor making bad decisions is what it is. But like, I really wanted to be a hero and I still want to do the heroic things, but without the label. And honestly, it's easier this way. So I don't think it should be that hard where like some of the people
00:22:06
Speaker
If dragon were there, she like, ah, I don't know how arms master got out. That's wild. And everybody be like doubt. And then, and then also be like, Hey, you know, without tipping her hand and knowing like, Hey, I absolutely know who skitter is just being like,
00:22:26
Speaker
I think we should give her the benefit of the doubt. Cause that's, you know, we know that dragon has done that for people like Canary and stuff like that. Like, Hey, I think we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I think we should work with her. I don't know why we're not working with her, you know? Um, yeah, we, we, we should have this and clock blocker go like, yeah, like other than when, you know, as soon as Leviathan hits since then, which is, you know, it's been a little bit like,
00:22:54
Speaker
what has skitter done other than hand out lots of medical supplies and food. Like, you know, granted there was, you know, some bank robbery before, but everybody comes together at the Leviathan fight. That's just how the hero criminal system works. And then post that Taylor has been doing nothing, but helping doing like aid in disaster relief. Right.
00:23:24
Speaker
So what, why, why are y'all on her case about this? And I think having some people go, you know, legend in his stupid Superman statement, like, ah, why isn't she good? And everybody going, well, you know, she's doing good things out there. She seems like a reasonable person. Why aren't we cooperating with them in at least some aspect? Yeah. Um, makes sense. So, so having that, uh, go through, I don't know,
00:23:54
Speaker
And not having it necessarily be a aggressive conversation in the PRT, but maybe just a contention. There is like a clear divide between Miss Militia, Dragon, and Clock Blocker on one side potentially versus everybody else. And once again, versus is a strong word, but just, you know, they fall in like, hey, maybe we should listen to her versus maybe not.
00:24:20
Speaker
I think having that conversation and having that through line when we see them and when they interact with skitter later, uh, how that plays out. Yeah. No, I like that. That's a good change. Plus it just, it just kind of feeds that overall theme that worm has of just sort of, you know, gray morality and all that kind of stuff. Just, it just helps sort of feed that, which I like. Yeah. And Clockwalker is a troublemaker. So like,
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. I still go with the thing that he, he has a, you know, a crush on, uh, on Taylor, which he does later, but you know, for now, like it's just, he's still got the little bit of that infatuation that we play up a bit more where he's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like skidders also a troublemaker like myself. Yeah. I like that.
00:25:15
Speaker
So moving there into all of the planning and then into the ambush and everything after that. Now this will take a while. There's a lot
Planning and Ambush: Strategies and Choreography
00:25:29
Speaker
that happens here.
00:25:30
Speaker
Like this is a, this is a full episode, you know, again, I sound like a broken record, but well, we'll space this out, kind of pace it a bit as we're kind of re-examining the whole season. But like between the interlude beforehand, moving into planning and then attacking post-attack and Brian and his trigger, like it's a lot, there's a lot that happens here. There is a lot that happens here.
00:25:56
Speaker
kind of going into the attack. You can go right into it pretty much from the planning because you can throw in, like you said, like that in between there, trying to get the protector to help. They say no, you know, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I think having skitter try and talk to panacea, panacea, I think that's, we should still keep that. Just don't have panic and interrupt that. I agree actually. I forgot about that. That is a good,
00:26:26
Speaker
I like that conversation. Show how much of a little bitch panacea is being. Child. I know, right? It's like she's, you know, doesn't have her frontal lobe developed or something. Uh, but then getting into the, into the fight itself here, man, is, is, is a fun one. So there's a lot to, there's a lot to work with.
00:26:54
Speaker
Travelers are there. This is a big Genesis moment, which... Genesis is kind of a big deal in this. Yeah. I'm going to be completely honest. I forgot Genesis was a character in this story until rereading everything here. I remembered her power and I remembered a character having her power, but I completely forgot she was part of the Travelers.
00:27:25
Speaker
I don't know why, but did she get to shine? Yeah, she certainly shines. She's a lot more, does a lot more than I gave her credit for the first couple of times I read this. All of the travelers, honestly. I tend not to like the travelers. My first couple of read-throughs and I'm not gonna lie, this arc definitely won me over. Yeah.
00:27:52
Speaker
I think they're a really interesting parallel to the undersiders because we're the undersiders with the exception of bitch whose master power is pretty destructive. The undersiders lack a lot of firepower.
00:28:09
Speaker
but they make do with what they have and they're really successful with it. The travelers are some of the heaviest hitters in the city between Sundancer, Ballistic, and Genesis. And yet, despite that, they really struggle in fights because they don't want to fight. Other than Trickster, the rest are pretty much pacifists.
00:28:36
Speaker
Annoyingly so. Yeah, it does. It is annoying. And it's like, it's really, really interesting to see these characters sort of wrestle with these powers that they have and not wanting to use them. Um, yeah, really fun contrast. Plus this is the, really the first fight we get to see them even fight at all. Um, yeah, this is also, uh, there's a whole thing with,
00:29:03
Speaker
Taylor interacting with Genesis and with the travelers and knowing what she knows about them. And, uh, you know, you're talking about all their pacifism. I think this is a great time to work on. Um, you know, we've had her work with Sundancer before. I love Genesis, but in the interest of, if we wanted to stick with characters and have them kind of consistently go back and forth, maybe switching Taylor and Genesis.
00:29:32
Speaker
being Taylor and Sundancer somehow. Or maybe during the warehouse fight, it's her and Genesis. So we have some more consistent conversations. That's smart. That is very smart. No, I think that's a good idea. I would probably make the character Sundancer. I think she's a bit more interesting.
00:30:01
Speaker
I think she does a bit more in the story overall. It probably makes a bit more sense. Well, yeah, I think it makes more sense for it to be Sundancers. Well, just because, um, the moment when Taylor makes her kind of transgress unknowingly to a Sundancer, like, Hey, are there any civilians there? And she's like, Nope, go ahead and run your giant fireball through. Yep. Um, you know, I have that sort of moment where like Taylor has,
00:30:31
Speaker
You know, over two seasons now, gotten to know Sundancer has learned, uh, she's very, very does not want to hurt people. Really doesn't even know why she's there. Does require kind of a strong hand to tell her what to do. Otherwise she won't do anything. Uh, and in the end is like, okay, this woman clearly needs me to make decision moral decisions for her as well. And goes ahead and does that.
00:30:58
Speaker
It's a lot harder if she's the one, like one of the people from the travelers that she consistently interacts with. No, I think that's wise. I think that's going to help a lot of the flow, a lot of character arc. Again, you know, you look at shows that do characters really well and there's just, there's not a lot of them.
00:31:21
Speaker
I'm sorry, there's not a lot of characters in those shows that do care as well. Like a lot of people like to point to Game of Thrones and be like, wow, like look at how many characters and character arcs there are. And the truth is they do it very well for a few seasons and then everything falls apart and everyone feels like their character arcs were rushed and they didn't conclude everything well, obviously. And I think you, I think it's really hard to avoid that problem when you have a lot of characters. So yeah.
00:31:49
Speaker
You're going to get to these points where I think it just makes sense. It's going to help things overall. Like, obviously, hardcore worm fans, we want to see everybody done with, you know, justice in this adaptation, hypothetically. But you're going to cut people. It's tough when you have, you know, obviously favorite characters and
00:32:15
Speaker
When it comes to, do you want to just have your favorite character show up or do you want like some sort of through arc to be done well? Um, yeah. And I am a big proponent of, I would rather lose a character in order to make the plot feel cohesive and better. I'm much more inclined to.
00:32:44
Speaker
condense, uh, then try and force something in. Um, yeah. You know, I say that I think about immediately about me trying to make, you know, the clock blocker Taylor thing happen. Uh, but you know, uh, personal preference. Um, but no, I mean, I think about we, we all are doing our own writing projects as well. And my writing project kind of started with how do I make this as simple as possible?
00:33:14
Speaker
And I'm like, easy, the world is hallways. There's, it's, it's the tiniest world imaginable. And there's a limited cast in the entire world that you can interact with. So there's no questions about, Oh, what about these people? Or what about the, no, like the cast and the universe is as small as it can get.
00:33:37
Speaker
And that makes writing it a lot easier for me just so that we can have three lines of character arcs and through, you know, all, all the things that we're struggling with now. Yeah. Cause this is the opposite. This is an expansive world. That's not only fictional, but also non-fictional. Cause it's set, you know, in the United States and Canada and all that. So like you're contending with so many.
00:34:02
Speaker
different variables of like, ah, yes, I've got to have all the things from the real world, correct. And build on top of that with fictional stuff. Like, yeah.
Fight Scenes: Character Arcs and Impact
00:34:15
Speaker
So much. There's a lot. And it's not going to be the last time, nor has it even been the first time. No, I was going to say we've already had this conversation. We're going to have it again. I'm already thinking one of my favorite minor characters in the series is Othello, who is an ambassador. Yep. Got my favorite power, I think, in the entire series. And I can't wait to get to it so I can own favorite power section of Brock May Book Club.
00:34:42
Speaker
There's like a 99.99% chance he doesn't see the light of day in any sort of word, television show. So, you know, it's going to happen. It's going to happen to us all. We're sorry. We apologize now. Tell us where we're wrong, please. Yeah. Which character, which one of your favorite characters would you be sad to see go, but you understand? Yeah. Write in the comments. That's, that's what we want to know. What's, what's your favorite character that you know has to be cut? Yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
That's a good question. Michael, make note. That's a good poll question. You make a note. I will make a note. Thank you. You're right. I'm kidding. All right. Well, let's get back into it. So yeah, we got the travelers there, fun conversations and working alongside them as they attack. Oh, so wait, hold on. Because we do have to
00:35:42
Speaker
capture, did I miss this? I'm all over the place here. We do have to capture Shatterbird. Uh, so, so first, so first let's just play this out chronologically, like we're talking about. So we start, we get, and maybe we've already talked about Jack's, uh, terms, the rules of the game. I think we introduced that in the episode before. So this is the quill, the underside of the travelers meet up to discuss, uh, how they're going to attack.
00:36:12
Speaker
Um, the slaughterhouse nine Taylor is like, we need to pull out guns. We don't even need the second mannequin attack. We just need this one. We need to pull out guns. We need to murder these people. And they're like, Hey, while we're preparing, do you think you could go talk to panacea? Maybe get her on board because like we're, you know, we are trying to protect these people and we've got to figure out who they are. And we think that it's her. She goes there kind of lets it slip that she is, but also maybe like.
00:36:42
Speaker
runs away or says like, leave me alone. You know, you're not my real dad. And then does whatever. So, and skitters just like, like, how are we supposed to protect her? If she, you know, if she doesn't want to be protected, like this is a problem we have to deal with later. We're just going to go ahead and attack the slaughterhouse nine. So they go back, they,
00:37:02
Speaker
And then we, you know, we cut to them on the roof. They're like, all right, are we ready? We have all those cool oceans, 11 style pre-planned trickster switching everything in and out, which I think is just so cool. I forgot about how we're going to go over that on the other podcast. But man, like majority of my notes are probably that fight and just about how cool all the things trickster does. I completely forgot.
00:37:31
Speaker
He makes such good use of his power. Yeah, does a great job. We interrupt our scheduled program to bring you a word from our sponsor, Zencaster, a one-stop shop for all your podcasting needs. When we first started this podcast, we knew we needed a service that would let us record remotely. After doing some research, Zencaster was the obvious choice. We started using Zencaster and never looked back.
00:38:00
Speaker
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00:38:27
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00:38:49
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. That's zencaster.com slash pricing and use our code rockton bay BC. And now back to our scheduled programming. Now here, here's something we talked about, uh, you know, cutting mannequin from this, you know, the second mannequin fight. We either do that or we just have mannequin be a more consistent
00:39:19
Speaker
drawn out villain for Taylor specifically. Maybe we don't even have the fight before, maybe she just finds like the dead people in the hospital van and they're like strung up by like rubber tubing.
00:39:40
Speaker
Like mannequins and she's like, Oh my God, like mannequin was here. You know, she tries to attack him with the thing. He does the chittering laugh. It kills all the bugs. You know, he can kill the bugs. He disappears. Like he's haunting her. And then finally he does an attack and we have the fight. Uh, but otherwise, you know, he shows up and we immediately come to a draw with him. Like if we're looking for a consistent singular villain.
00:40:10
Speaker
I don't know if mannequins are guy. See, I was actually going to even go the other route and say of anything, I think that Taylor kills him in that, in that confrontation, the first fight. Hear me out and remind me if I'm wrong, cause it's been a minute since I've read past where we are currently, but I don't think mannequin has too much longer to go in the story.
00:40:38
Speaker
Honestly, I think almost all of his contributions the rest of the time are just him tinkering with Bonesaw. Like him and Bonesaw making the Cherish apparatus. And I think that's it. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think he makes it much. I'm just going to skip ahead on my notes here. I do have some notes for the future arcs. Just looking around. Arc 14.
00:41:09
Speaker
Yeah. It's the next arc. Uh, yeah. If I'm looking at this, right, I'll do, I'll do a some more, I'll do a more detailed look here, but it's coming up. It's not long before, before he gets just glass. So yeah, I was going to say if it happens when they get crawler as well, then why it does. Yeah, that's, that's exactly okay. I honestly forgot when he went out. Yeah. So,
00:41:40
Speaker
Oh yeah. There it is. Yeah. Middle of next arc. Yep. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. Like, yeah, man, that's actually kind of sad on it. I know. They linger a lot longer than you remember. Yeah. Cause he is such a of, of all of them, you know, we talk about memorability for me, it starts, it's, it goes bone saw mannequin Jack slash.
00:42:04
Speaker
as the big three. Part of that is the actual longevity of their characters. But the other part is like, those are the ones with the most memorable moments. Like, you're bone saw is just horrifying. So you can't forget about anything bone saw ever did without a lot of therapy. Jack slash just because of his kind of essentialness of the story and mannequin cause he's got those great horrifying
00:42:32
Speaker
You know, honestly, just two moments are enough. You know, the arms master interlude is when he's at his most terrifying and then the warehouse fight. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's, I didn't realize that he just.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah, he petters out. Yeah, he gets kind of off. Oh, man. Yeah, no, no, I have that then I think I think make the fight a little bit longer if you want make it a bit more of a, you know, back and forth. But especially because we talked about how mannequin introduces the fact that he has arms masters.
00:43:07
Speaker
nano, uh, smashing knife. Yeah. And we talked about giving that to Taylor because having her get a hold of it and I think that's really cool. Especially, you know, we talked about one day she like, Hey, you know, either she goes, Hey, arms master, this is yours as a sign of good faith. Or he's like, uh, that's mine. I'll take that back. And she's like, no, you won't. It belongs to arms master. Um,
00:43:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think that's good. Also, if we've already had the rules established and this is him futzing around, perhaps this could be two characters, you know, we could add a lot of things together, like perhaps having panacea be at her territory.
00:44:03
Speaker
Because she's hanging around the hospital, I forget why. Maybe she got injured. And because her power doesn't work on herself, she needed medical treatment. And she'd run away from home, and this is where she was getting medical treatment. And Taylor recognizes her and is like, oh shit. And of course, Panacea is like, fuck, she recognizes me.
00:44:29
Speaker
Mannequin comes to get her because the same reason that he doesn't like Panacea in the first place is because Panacea is the most helpful person and he hates people who help other people. Maybe not realizing that she's terrible because it's not his pick. But he goes there to fuck with her and Panacea dips immediately, doesn't try to help anybody.
00:44:56
Speaker
you know, showing what a piece of shit she is. And Taylor gets stuck fighting mannequin and mannequin, you know, always realizes that Taylor's doing all this and is like, okay, now I'm going to double fuck you up. Cause like, I was going to go after this person for helping, but you're helping. I'll fuck you. And, um, and that's when, uh, we have the fight and Taylor wins. And because of that, he forfeits his turn or whatever.
00:45:27
Speaker
And maybe, maybe then you have burn scar show up and be like, Hey, you know, you could have her yoink him out and maybe bone saw could turn him into something. You could have her rescue, but you know, burn saw burn scar rescue him. You could have him just get murdered. And the slaughterhouse nine now kind of have skitter on their radar, which they didn't have before.
00:45:55
Speaker
And that's a good place to have Jack, that, that conversation where, you know, they show up and they give the announcement of like, Hey, uh, we're about to scream that, you know, wake up the city announced we're here with the whole glass shattering thing.
Slaughterhouse Nine's Horror Elements
00:46:10
Speaker
That's a great time for Jack to show up with Siberian and bone saw to skitter and go, okay, we didn't have you on our radar before, but you took down one of the nine single handedly.
00:46:25
Speaker
And Jack, maybe start breaking down Skinner. Like you wanted to be a hero, you know, but man, you just keep doing bad things. Like, I think I would argue that probably it's probably overcomplicating it a bit, but I like, I like a few, I like a few things you said there. One, because especially we've kind of go back and forth with the rules a bit. I'm, I think we don't want to focus too much on the rules for the game.
00:46:52
Speaker
Um, I, in all honesty, I think it's probably simpler if we just remove them all together, you can still have them be quote unquote present or the nine, just not made aware to for the audience. Like if you just want to have it, you know, a casual line here and there that Jack drops so that hardcore fans can be like, Oh, they're playing a game. But I think there are some, some, some rules we need to keep one, uh, no, no people coming in to help, right? Right. Uh, directly, directly, no direct help.
00:47:23
Speaker
Nobody leaving. And if we end up, each one of us is going to give a test or is going to like do a test. And if by the end of our tests, like they don't even have to say what they are, how long they take by the end of our tests, whoever is left, we, you know, we leave with that person.
00:47:49
Speaker
Um, but if you guys are able to keep a more than one person alive after the final test, then, uh, then we'll just leave. See, I'm going to, I'm going to keep pushing back just cause I think, I think this is a fun, I think this is a fun conversation. So in my mind.
00:48:11
Speaker
Even less is known. The nine would simply, they enter Brockton Bay. Everybody knows at this point, like we've established, the nine are a well-known terrorist group of villains. And everybody knows that they go around recruiting people and that they only ever have nine members.
00:48:29
Speaker
We also know at this point that there's only eight members, right? We're sprinkling this in in conversations with the wards and weld and the director, right? We're giving the audience the clues here so they can piece it together. So everyone kind of knows that nine are here to recruit their ninth member. So I think if all that's said, conveyed from Jack and from the nine to everybody is we're here, don't get in our way.
00:49:00
Speaker
That's all you really need to convey. Yeah, no, you know what? You've convinced me. I think you're right. But here's what I did. You said something that I did really, really like. So post Shatterbird Screams, we have their conversation in the parking garage, whatever, playing that out. Taylor gets back to her territory and Panacea shows up to help people or whatever.
00:49:28
Speaker
We're a workshop how to get her there, but have Mannequin there for Panacea because Panacea is a target, right? So Mannequin shows up for her to challenge her, to put her through a test and skitter gets in the way.
00:49:45
Speaker
And this way you can, you still kind of keep that, you kind of keep that whole fight the way it is. You still, like what you said, putting Skidder on the map in Jack's eyes. But two, you could also put Burnscar there at the end, who's kind of maybe just watching and waiting her turn. And, you know, maybe she does take Mannequin's body back or something like that. And like, oh, you know, Bonesaw wants him. You can say whichever you want, you know. Yeah.
00:50:12
Speaker
because she can just dip in and out with her teleports. She doesn't even need to fight. And that way you can, because especially if we're going to go down the route of slowly revealing who has been targeted, right? Like we talked about saving the Ars Master reveal until he shows the knife to skitter. And then the audience being like, Oh, wait a minute.
00:50:38
Speaker
Why does he have that? You know, little bits like that. So having so then Skitter being able to put together the pieces at the end of that fight, being like, why was he here? Then putting, realizing the panacea is here and kind of making that connection. I feel like there's a lot you could do with that. And I realized that we are an episode behind where we started this dissecting worm. But I think this is part of it's going before and after, you know? Yeah.
00:51:07
Speaker
It's trying to make it cohesive. So you got to dip in and out. Exactly. And I mean, and then it gives you room to scatter in other scenes to cut to, right? So you could cut to a scene with panacea, right? You know, part of her in a lute, if you wanted to put that here, things like that. So there's a, there's a lot of ways you could work that in. I like all that being said, if we go that route and mannequin is not,
00:51:35
Speaker
at play during this fight in arc 13. Nothing really changes, which I think is what we were getting at was like, this fight still plays out pretty much as is. Um, yeah, yeah. Uh, let me see if I have any notes for this. I don't think other than man, it's really cool. Um, it is really cool. Alec gets another moment to shine controlling shatterbird. Um, did I miss when
00:52:05
Speaker
Gru gets captured. He gets captured off screen, but it's because he gets swapped. He tells Trickster to swap him with... Who is it? Cherish or somebody? Oh my gosh, why is it not? I know Taylor offers to go and he's like, ah, you're not gonna be able to run fast enough with those burns. And then they dip out. And I completely missed that was putting him in that much harm's way.
00:52:34
Speaker
Um, when I read it, cause I'm like, obviously I know he gets captured. I just like, we get to the next part and say, God, I've got grew. I'm like, whoa, when did that happen? Yeah. No. Um, Oh, it is Cherish. Is it Cherish? Yeah. Capture. I assume a body. Yeah. Right. Well, cause it's, they capture Shatterbird and Cher. So it's one of them either way. It's one of them and grew is captured. Yeah. So in this case, I think.
00:53:00
Speaker
Uh, maybe, maybe making up or, you know, just buffing that up a bit. Um, having that be a big moment where you're like, ah, no, I'll go. And you're like, no, I got this. And then zoom, you know, it's already in there text-wise, but I feel like bumping it a little bit to make it more of a moment. Other than an aside, like, no, I got this. Yep. You know,
00:53:27
Speaker
And then, you know, cause you get, they get back and they talk for a little bit and then they're like, Oh, where's grew? I'm like, did you not know? Yeah, I also don't think we give them as much time between the end of the fight and then going back for grew. Cause it feels like it's a few hours in the story. Cause they go back to the base. They like, they torture, but torture, they question, cherish. No, it's torture. What am I saying? Tattletale or a skitter.
00:53:56
Speaker
beats the shit out of her. Um, yeah. Tortures, tortures her. Yeah. All that kind of stuff. There you go. It is a bit in terms of pacing. We'll be talking about this as a, uh, in a longer episode. Um,
00:54:15
Speaker
Cause if you were going to do short, you know, our short 23, 25 minute episodes. Yeah. Um, which I will, I will just say, I don't think we've ever really talked about this since coming. We mentioned it kind of early on first couple of episodes. I don't think there's any way you do these in like less than a 45 minute episode. I really don't. Um, but in this, you have her go like, Oh, um, you know, she gets back where the hell is grew and they're like, uh, captured by the nine.
00:54:46
Speaker
That would be the end of a shorter episode. Otherwise it just, you know, it's part two is, you know, she'd beaten the shit out of cherish and it be, you know, brings that like, where, you know, where is she? It really ends up getting that scene. Yep. Uh, we have the reveal about arms master escaping his confinement here, which, you know, Oh,
00:55:10
Speaker
I don't know if necessarily we need to, he had escaped his confinement, but, you know, reveal that like, Oh, he's been here under house arrest this whole time. Like, Oh, they still kept him around. Like those bitches. Um, and I also explains why the knife was so present. Yeah. Uh, you know, puts more of the clues together. Um, talking about the deals, strikes the imp and the fact that they'll never, you know, they'll never let them out alive. They'll never take us back.
00:55:39
Speaker
I think it's a great moment. Yeah, I think you keep it. I think it's just faster. They get away and right away, Taylor is where he's grown. Exactly. And you just go right into that whole conversation, kick cherish a few times and move on from there. So they're back at it.
00:56:02
Speaker
right away. At least to me when I'm reading it, part of the exhaustion that's there is the fact that they haven't really recovered.
00:56:13
Speaker
and they come back and then they just get overwhelmed by the nine. Because that first fight really seems to go in their favor. Yeah, they don't kill everybody, but they quickly take care of Cherish and Shatterbird and chase the others away. Like it feels like, oh, this was too easy. We can go back out and get grew. This is not gonna be a problem. And then they just get wrecked in a horrific and gruesome fight.
00:56:41
Speaker
Um, a slight note here when during the planning stage, um, I think it would be important, uh, to have trickster and Taylor, maybe kind of be the forefronts in the planning, um, because they're kind of the most bloodthirsty and the most tactically minded.
00:57:03
Speaker
Um, yep. So having them have sort of this synergistic moment between each other, I think will really lend to a good, you know, civil war poster shot of, you know, Taylor on one side with the undersiders and trickster on the other side facing off against her with the travelers. Uh, when we have that kind of that, that, you know, the face off, um, having showing that they are, you know,
00:57:30
Speaker
They are both alike and very smart when it comes to tactics and using their powers. And it makes it that much more of a thing when you essentially have two of these chess masters go against each other in future arcs. So I think that's something just to bump a little.
00:57:53
Speaker
No, I like that. Again, we're all about, and by we, I mean me, but we're all about that subtle foreshadowing and, you know, hinting at future events. And I'm all for that. So the more of that we get, I'm going to say yes to every time. I love that stuff. So they quickly track down, you know, using Tattletail to track down
00:58:22
Speaker
Whatever slaughterhouse nine is, they go in. I love that. Just got to say though, that's just another great tattletale line where, you know, looking at looking at Cherish, where are they? Cherish basically like, I'm never going to tell you. Oh, you already did. Like it's all she needs. My favorite is you like computers. Yeah. Exactly. Got your pen. Yep. Thank you. More about that in book club. Yeah. Really free moment.
00:58:53
Speaker
No, they get back out there. Okay. This scene, the rescue attempt on Gru is horrifying.
Rescue Attempt: Horror and Emotional Impact
00:59:04
Speaker
And I feel like this scene really visualizes the style that I want all of season two to have, which is this terrifying view of the nine.
00:59:18
Speaker
And, you know, this is a conversation you want to have with your directors and your, uh, editors and everything like that. But like, this is the culmination of who the nine are. Yes. And it's brutal and terrifying. And I, it needs to hit well when you see it. Yeah. In terms of moments that like, I will never be able to undo it's grew in the meat freezer. Like God.
00:59:47
Speaker
It's, it's, that is a nightmare scene that has stuck in my brain for all of my life. It will never leave the nerve endings going everywhere. Just like it. It's fantastic writing.
01:00:06
Speaker
I hate it. Yup. Thanks. I hate it. Thanks so much. I hate it. As, as much as I have grown as a, as we've been kind of doing this and reading it again, I've been drawn more and more towards live action as where I think this would really shine, especially with a lot of the conversations that we talked about. But if that scene of the freezer, isn't the most like a horror anime imagery ever,
01:00:33
Speaker
Like, oh yeah, I can only see that with like, you know, just some of the great body horror animes visually that I can think of. It's just like attack on Titan sort of imagery. Uh, just really gross, really, really gross. It's honestly, it's, it's, you know, scenes like this where like who can do a saw
01:00:58
Speaker
You know, the saw series animated like that aesthetic. Cause that is what bone saw is right here. Um, and, and I like, it really did made me go like, like, Oh, which animated studios, if we, you know, this was not live action. Cause if it is live action, I think it just hits.
01:01:19
Speaker
So much harder for the gore slash like the, just the creepy uncomfortable griminess of this, that, uh, that, that narrowed down. Like you can't, I don't think even invincible, uh, whoever did the animation for invincible, not going to be able to pull this off. Um, maybe Fortiche, you get pretty grimy with the under city. So like, I could see them being able to do it.
01:01:48
Speaker
Um, but like, even then I'm like, ah, could they go, like, would they be able to do it far enough? Like, uh, and, and when you start talking about like anime, I'm like, okay, the Castlevania guys could probably do this. Yeah. Um, but then we talk about like anime and I'm like, yeah, there's a few anime that really go into some body horror and, uh,
01:02:15
Speaker
But you're gonna always have that problem with animation. I say problem, it's not a problem. It's a stylistic distinction where there's a disassociation when you're watching an animated clip as opposed to a live action one, where it just won't, it's just by nature of the format isn't going to hit as hard. Like I love Invincible. I love that it's animated. It's a really, really well done show. But the scenes, the gruesome scenes, especially towards the end,
01:02:45
Speaker
Do not hit as hard as they would in live action. I don't think anyone could say they do. Oh, they just wouldn't. Goodness now. Um, um, yeah. Yeah. Brutal. It's gonna be a tough one. Either way. Not for us to decide. Producers. Have fun with that one. Have fun with strings of nerve endings. Uh, bone cell laughing. Yeah. Bone cell laughing. Uh, them in the vans, I think.
01:03:15
Speaker
Once again, if we were, if we were in a season, you know, doing a two-parter episode or, you know, even the transition for this is them in the vans, just doing their different ticks. You know, trickster smoking out the window. Taylor, maybe just, you know, bopping her foot because she clearly wants to run. Uh, Lisa playing with a scar on the inside of her mouth and get there. You know, they get ambushed and it's not even everybody. It's just bone saw and having her.
01:03:44
Speaker
wipe them all out, I think does a good job of bringing back honor to the name of the slaughterhouse nine after mannequin, you know, we'll just say for now mannequin just gets off at the fight. I'm okay with, you know, making that our cannon for right now. He gets off in that fight.
01:04:04
Speaker
goes out kind of like a bitch for our first direct, you know, he does, he does no matter how you want to write it. If Taylor wins that fight, he already goes out kind of like a bitch anyway in every fight. So, and this one, let's, let's just, he goes out like a bitch. It's like, Oh man, this letter house nine while they came in, they did the shout. It was really terrifying.
01:04:29
Speaker
All the stuff been leading up this kind of a letdown. He's kind of a little bitch only to have bone saw be horrifying. Like it's a draw in. Oh, they're not that bad. Then bone. So, um,
01:04:46
Speaker
Honestly, if you wanted to throw in, just because visually it's horrifying, we did sort of say we probably were going to cut the interlude where they go and fuck up the merchants, which makes sense, I think. But if you did want to throw in like a...
01:05:01
Speaker
a small bone saw plague there where everybody pops. If you did like the plastic surgery bit that she does is terrifying. So having all these civilians who kind of vaguely resemble bone saw screaming and running all over the place and then
01:05:22
Speaker
like popping and exploding as they're begging, like, which is, I'd heard Steven say, like, I don't even, it's just such a visceral, visceral image. I agree. I think, I think this is where, in addition to, to, to Shatterberg, cause her scream is terrifying too, but in a different way. I think, I think Bow and Saw, this is their moment where the nine remind people who they are.
01:05:52
Speaker
You know, yeah, I agree. I like, I like that bone saw basically takes care of everybody and uh, is really only caught off guard at the end because of Brian's second trigger. Um,
01:06:03
Speaker
But I mean, everything like that should play out. I don't have an issue with the way it's written in terms of the way it would be portrayed on screen. She darts everybody. They go to sleep. She's talking to Taylor is, has the whole conversation with the passenger, which is some great world building drops that we need to be any way. Um, so we throw that in there, have Perry and swoop in. I love, love, love that if I love Perry and as a character,
01:06:29
Speaker
And if we do want to show her more often, I think her having... We should. Her whole family get wiped out by Bonesaw, giving her that little bit of an arc and some development. I love the fight that they have briefly. And then Brian's second trigger and everything after that is just beautiful.
01:06:51
Speaker
Uh, it's horrific. It's shocking. Um, have bone saw, you know, get all pouty and needs to leave. Like all of that can play out pretty much the same. Um, yeah. Yeah. I don't really have any notes on that front. I love, I love Brian killing burn scar.
01:07:11
Speaker
It's so good. So it reminds me a lot of the scene in Hunger Games, the first one, which I rewatched recently, like a few months ago, actually. Really low budget. I forgot how low budget it is. Very, very low budget. It does a really good job with what they have.
01:07:32
Speaker
Towards the very, very end, the one guy from district, like 10 or 11, the other guy with Rue, the little girl that gets killed, the other guy from that district, where he, at the very end, he smashes the one girl who's attacking Katniss against the side of the airplane. And it's just brutal and it's quick and he's doing it just for vengeance for Rue.
01:07:57
Speaker
and it's just like, takes her, yells at her and just smash, smash. Like that's what I'm imagining Brian does here at a burn scar. Like it's so quick. It's just brutal. It's for revenge and nothing else. It's just, just a smash into her dead. Like, uh, I think of the, in terms of head smashing, I believe it's the raid or the raid to where there's a scene where he like,
01:08:24
Speaker
essentially dribbles the guy's head like a basketball against the wall all the way down as the guy's body is falling. So, you know, it's like hitting him against the wall, but as his body's going down, he's continuing to hit it against the wall. And like, and, you know, until he's completely on the ground, I was like, Oh man, that's, you know, man, brutal, brutal. Uh, and.
01:08:50
Speaker
Uh,
Character Trauma and Resolutions
01:08:51
Speaker
I think, I think in this case, cause I think Jack comes back and stuff like that, me just having Siberian and burn scar show up. I like that too, actually. Um, cause Siberian of course is the best interest in bone saw burn scars. Like, Hey, we come to get you. Jack says we need to, like, we need to go more heroes or, you know, the heroes are on their way now. Like, yeah. Uh, pack it up. And this is where.
01:09:20
Speaker
Um, you know, he's true, you know, she's like, oh, I'm going to take. Emperor, whatever, you know, this one I've got, you know, special plans for her. The, you know, it coalesces Siberian goes to, you know, maybe it even, it even grabs bone sauce hands to start Siberian steps forward and disappear. Yeah. No, no. We'll start with like, they show up all of a sudden Siberian steps forward. The darkness is coming out. Siberian disappears.
01:09:50
Speaker
Um, and instead we get shadow grew, which then grabs, uh, grabs bones, goes into feeling, you know, turns, maybe let's go, let's go of bone saw.
01:10:08
Speaker
Oh no, I like, I like, um, like, so let's say bone saw says, okay, fine. I'll take imp. Burn scar goes over to grab imp. And that's what gets Brian. And so that's why he grabs burn scar. Cause he's got a hold of his sister and, uh, you know, there's not even a Siberian power to grab burn scar. Yeah. I think is a great time for just bone saw to run. Yeah. Uh, yeah.
01:10:38
Speaker
Yeah. Paul's acquits realizes that like, Oh, I can't, I can't actually win against this. And she just dips. Um, but give her a cool, give her like, Oh man, this is, you know, I wish I had more time. Yeah, exactly. Um, I, you know, I, gosh, like I wish I could stay, maybe even gets the hard drive that she's wanted so badly. Like, Oh my gosh, this is perfect. Doesn't care about the fact that burn scars dead. Like just, Oh my gosh. Like I can't believe I've recorded it.
01:11:08
Speaker
You know, I got that second trigger, you know, I've been working so hard to do. Yeah. Oh, you're so beautiful. And like, Oh my, yeah. Oh my gosh. It's so beautiful. Like, I can't believe I got it to happen. Right. You know, even though burn scars lying there, you know, brains out. Yeah. And then she runs away. Yeah. Um, cause otherwise I, I,
01:11:33
Speaker
I do feel as if it's a little bit deus ex machina. I know it explains it later on, but it was a little out of place there. Um, feels better if we have the lead up, like, oh, like the darkness starts really pouring out, which goes to the amp, the, you know, having Siberian disappear and for the grew to take place and all that.
01:11:53
Speaker
I mean, you could easily... Because again, I like the way they explain it, so we can probably keep it. But if you didn't want to, you could easily just have Siberian just not taking no for an answer and just dragging Bonesaw out and then being like, wait, grab Imp, and then have Burnscar go back to try to grab Imp and then play the rest of that out. And then just have Siberian just leave with Bonesaw, just dragging her. Yeah.
01:12:19
Speaker
You could, I mean, you could just do that and not have to worry about trying to explain away anything else at this point. Yeah. Well, I'm just, I'm just thinking about how, um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can do that. We do that. Um, then we have Walt second trigger event. We have the visuals for that, which, you know, uh,
01:12:43
Speaker
I think is open to artistic interpretation of however the director wants to do at the time. So not a whole lot to talk about there other than, you know, it makes it fun. Yeah. Fun scene to kind of storyboard, but nothing to really script at this point, except for visualize the second trigger here. Yeah. Um, they get back, they get back and then Taylor and Brian have a little heart to heart.
01:13:15
Speaker
I'll be excited to kind of go through this with the book club because I have some thoughts on this chapter, but just in terms of kind of for, for story beats in the show, I do think Brian's a little harsh here. I mean, it makes sense, but yeah. I mean, we talk about, we literally have the same thing with Taylor. Like she's got a concussion. Yeah, trauma. You're a little rattled. You do a lot of mood swinging. You know, there's a lot of reasons for why this has happened.
01:13:42
Speaker
I agree, I think he is a little harsh. I think honestly, this whole conversation would go, you can keep almost everything, just have better transitions from one topic to another.
01:14:01
Speaker
And this would play out like, Oh, this is his reason for getting maybe more upset about this. Yeah. And Taylor being like, Hey, you've got a concussion. I know what that's like. You know, you're lashing out kind of like I did. And he's like, you know, I like, I know that and it's upsetting me that I know that, but it doesn't stop me from being angry at you. Like I'm really like.
01:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And I think it works better too if, again, I think this is just kind of seen that works better in live action. But if the actor who's ever playing Brian in this scene is also just very clearly wearing his emotions on his sleeve, he's a kid. He's 17 years old. He almost lost all of his friends and his sister.
01:14:47
Speaker
like the only thing he cares about. I was listening to the audiobook for this and I love the audiobook. It does a great, great job. But it's hard to read emotional scenes like this well. And so it's easy to even just reading them yourself, not just listening.
01:15:08
Speaker
It's hard to put in the correct emotion sometimes. So I think you can keep a lot of the language. I would change some of it, but you can keep a lot of the language and just have Brian right on the line. He is having a breakdown.
01:15:25
Speaker
I mean, everything that happened to him being flayed open, second trigger, losing everybody, almost losing everybody. He is at the end of the rope. He's as at the end as you can be. And so I think just having a really emotional scene will overcome a lot of the harshness of the language.
01:15:51
Speaker
Yeah. No, I think that, and then like having, you know, she's like, well, then I better go. And he was like, no, you know, I don't go essentially has a very awkwardly phrased and terribly timed, you know, somewhat love confession. And then I think it's a perfect ending for them sitting on the couch. You know, don't go. I can't like, I had like, I need somebody. Please Taylor, stay with me. Like, and
01:16:22
Speaker
they're both miserable. Like I think that's a great exit shot of Taylor on the couch, looks at him and is like, you know, essentially there's a relation like fuck. Like it said, I got what I wanted, just not at all how I wanted it. Yeah.
01:16:45
Speaker
So, and if that is not the subtitle for the whole show, I got what I wanted. Just not how I wanted it. I got it the worst way possible. Yep. Exactly. Uh, I think, I mean, I think that that was a nice little capstone on this, on this episode, uh, two asides real quick. We'll talk about the other one, uh, Cranston and, uh, whoever the hell tattletales winking at.
01:17:15
Speaker
as our minor characters that we maybe need to like keep them. Um, maybe we just have Cranston show up a bit earlier as coil like intermediary for Taylor. Yeah, something like that. Just something easy. I think that works. And then, uh, just obviously make, you know, Brooke Senegal, whoever the hell, uh,
01:17:41
Speaker
I think that's the one that maybe tattletales in her harem, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the easy one to fit in. Yeah, for sure. So without further ado, I think that's really it. I think that kind of puts a nice little bow on it. Can you kind of wrap it up here? Pretty good episode. I can't believe we're wrapping up the slaughterhouse nine this
01:18:09
Speaker
We've got another arc for the nine, and then we're kind of done with them.
01:18:19
Speaker
Now it feels quick, but when we sit down to plan this out and space it out, I think we're going to put some pieces together. I think these episodes are going to draw out quite a bit because if season two, assuming let's just for now, let's say it ends with arc 14, the next arc. That's arcs 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. It's five arcs.
01:18:42
Speaker
way less than we had for season six arcs. Can I count? I can't count. Five arcs. I can't count. Thank you. But these arcs are longer. There's a lot more to them. And there's a lot more that we've talked about. Oh, we got to space this in. We've got to put this in. We really, really want the assault and battery interlude spread out here.
01:19:06
Speaker
We really, really want the Slaughterhouse Nine's flashbacks. We really want a few more scenes with the Wards, right? We want a couple more scenes with Perrien, probably Flechette. We really haven't talked about that yet, and maybe that'll be its own episode at some point. But there's a lot that we do want to sprinkle in here that's really going to stretch
01:19:29
Speaker
It's gonna add up quick. And I think you're looking at, even with these five arcs, I think you're easily looking at eight episodes, eight good, like 40, 50 minute episodes, especially considering fight scenes and things like that, that will drag and take time.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:19:48
Speaker
You're gonna have some good amount of stuff to do here. The next arc is long. There's a lot in it. So there's gonna be quite a bit there.
01:19:55
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, something to be thinking about as we move forward because of how awkward the next arc see like two arcs, even, is it even two arcs, one arc, two arcs, two arcs, um, are about to be, um, we might want to look into, uh, our next big problem. Um,
01:20:22
Speaker
which will be the tying in the coil problem where we're kind of honestly coming back to our original big, big problem here. How do we tie this in? Cause I think there's a couple ways that fit pretty naturally, but we'll talk about them when we get there. So keep that in mind as we move forward, how do we, how do we successfully and coherently in a season of television,
01:20:51
Speaker
tie in coils arc. Yeah. That'd be fun. Stick around. Yeah. And with that being said, I think we're, I think we're done here. I think our work is done. Yeah. Tune in next week for our Brockton Bay book club. And we'll see you in two weeks or dissecting worm. Give you time to read those longer arcs.
01:21:16
Speaker
You're going to need it. They get long. A lot to read here. Arc 14 is going to be a blast. It's a long one. A lot of good stuff there. A couple of interludes, a little fun interludes. Looked ahead a little bit, spoiled myself. Sorry. Always spoiling yourself.
01:21:31
Speaker
But thanks for listening, everybody. It's been an absolute pleasure. We're having so much fun with this, if you can't tell. This is a lot of fun. And we love and appreciate all your comments, all your support. Let us know. We've had a few people who have been giving us some great ideas. So we love to hear them. We've missed a lot of things, a lot of really fun ideas and concepts out there. So let us know what you think.
01:21:54
Speaker
Reach out to us, any of our platforms. Links are all in the bio. And thanks again, Alan, for joining me as always and Michael for making us sound good. Thanks for having me on, Jacob. And until next time, take that. You worms. Take that, you worms.
01:22:16
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening. Read along with us at parahumans.wordpress.com. We'd love to hear your thoughts. What did you love? What did you hate? Anything you think we missed, etc., as long as it's kind. If you'd like to get in touch, you can find us on Twitter, threads, Instagram, TikTok, and Reddit, at Brockton Bay, B.C., or click the link in the description.