Transcript
Speaker: and and she owned a long-term care plan. And I asked her, why did you own it? she said, and she was, here's an estate planning attorney, here's somebody that were insurance buyers, they bought what they needed, but they didn't buy all of us the extra. But she came up with the the best explanation i've ever heard is, she said i she said, nobody has that much money to pay for their lifestyle and their caregiving.
Speaker: Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray-in-Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
Speaker: Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
Speaker: Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
Speaker: As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
Speaker: Today's guest is Raymond Levine. He is an extended care benefit advisor whose work blends practical planning and deep empathy. He is also the co-author of an Amazon bestseller called Empathy and Understanding in Business. He is a host of Planning with Purpose, The Caregiver's Blueprint,
Speaker: and the recipient of, I don't know how to pronounce these, Quilly and XB Awards. Did I pronounce those two right? Okay, cool. Well done. Yay, we did it. i i got i got through the intro, Raymond. We did the hard part. The lesson is excellent. Keep going. Well, thank you for having me on your podcast. I'm honored.
Speaker: I'm glad you are here. So let's start out with sharing a bit about your own life. How did you end up in this space? I haven't, you know, in a podcast, I've never said this before, is that when I was first thinking about caregiving plans, and I've been thinking about it since the late 90s, where I happen to see information about it. And I was not a promoter proponent of thinking about caregiving plans. I didn't think I needed it. i didn't think I wanted it And why? Because I really didn't understand it. And I just didn't get that feeling. But over time, it's progressed where I've understood, you know, the idea and the practicality of having a caregiving plan. And as part of that, you know, what I advocate is not just caregiving plans, but caregiving plan as part of your at your estate planning and your life planning, because there's nothing more disruptive than the unexpected.
Speaker: yeah And I'll give you an example. When you go and try to start your car and it doesn't start, you're not happy because you want to go someplace and the car doesn't start. Or something happens on your computer or your phone. If it doesn't, you know, you need to reboot it or you need to do something. It's the unexpected. So my life, what things that I've learned is that if you're going to have the unexpected and you know that it could be really important, have a plan about that. So entered this with the idea of Why do I need it? Why do I want it? Why am I even talking about how do I even get in the business?
Speaker: Well, um some of it was because my mother needed long-term care for a long time. She she needed care for 18 years and she owned a long-term care plan and she died a couple of years ago at 103. So she was the ultimate outlier. The ultimate outlier of of somebody that needed care care. And she was an estate planning attorney and all of them. And they weren't insurance buyers. But in the early ninety s she got the plot that it was a good idea to have a plan. She didn't tell me about this you know and until
Speaker: you know we met many years later. she didn't tell She didn't tell me that she owned a plan. But we talked about you know why why later. But in my journey, then it became, you know again, I sort of had the back of my mind, but I wasn't ready to do it because I didn't understand it. And I didn't have anybody else at the time because I wasn't in the business that could explain to me what what it was about. Because most of the time it was just, you know, here's the plan, here's the premium.
Speaker: But I didn't, you know, but what does it do? What's good what's in it for what's in it for us? and and for us Ultimately, what what it was is my wife's parents, they didn't own a plan, but they had severe caregiving issues, meaning one was dying of cancer and and eventually her father needed had severe cognitive issues.
Speaker: and and And my wife said, look, we need we need to we need to get a plan because seeing all the financial and emotional issues were going on with her parents, she said, it's a good, you know, it would be, when my wife suggests something, it's it's a suggestion. It really means you really need, Raymond, you really need to do something about this. We need we we need we need we need information. So what may seem as a suggestion is really a you really ought to do this i really encourage you to do this so eventually we did get it we did get a plan and a really robust plan because with my mother and her friends we started hearing all these caregiving stories then eventually i said gee you know this might be an interesting business that i should be in to do what i've done for myself to really work with others now a lot of times people will say well he's a salesman well
Speaker: yeah um and but um when you go to the checkout con you have the check upper people always sort of label it as this all i want to do is sell you a plan and sure i mean if you go out for a meal they're going to assume you're going to order food but what i really want to do is to have the people to have the conversation and to tell their stories or for me to ask questions to say have you considered if this happens what's your plan what do you think How how is this going to affect you? And it's it's the same as, you know, a lot of other planning things that happen in people's lives.
Speaker: And so that's why I'm in this business and why I don't always enjoy the insurance companies. i don't always enjoy sometimes my colleagues, but I really love the idea of what I do.
Speaker: If people want to have the conversation, say, look, yeah, with what you're suggesting, let's do it. Or I have an alternative, whatever it is that you have. You're thinking about it to say, this if I have a caregiving plan, this will help in in many parts of my life.
Speaker: When your mom realized she was going to have caregiving, was it you guys that decided that she was going have long-term care? Was it herself based on her dynamics?
Speaker: Who made that decision? Because 18 years is a long time. Interesting. brilliant You didn't tell Ruth to do anything. Who's Ruth? That's my mother.
Speaker: um another and Okay. I would say, I was thinking you were starting to tell me, I'm like, you can't tell Ruth. I'm like, wo boy ru's like okay. So she would have to make that decision herself. ru ruth Ruth made the decision. Sometimes the way that she made decisions, she didn't always consult with people or collaborate. and was sort of like the the out of the book of Ruth, you know, I have spoken. And I didn't always like that or I didn't always appreciate it. But no, she made she she made those kinds of life decisions on her own. And throughout until a a few months before she died, she was really control. Physically and frailty, a lot of issues, but cognitively she was till till the last couple of months able to make all kinds of any kind any kind of decision, but she needed help because of frailty, because of physical and mobility issues that she needed to ah help her, but she was she was the one and in charge. And
Speaker: my My sister actually lived maybe 20 minutes away, but none of us are by definition caregivers. In fact, actually, I'll confess that although we have a robust caregiving plan and I will help my wife, I'm not caregiving material.
Speaker: It's funny because I feel the same way about even myself and my own personality. i'm I'm great at like short term. And I know that even just with when my kids are sick, I'm like, I'm OK, like with this. But it's hard when you're going through that aspect of caregiving, especially because you want that to make sure that the relationship also stays as it should be. You know, it could it could hinder and and and affect the the relationship a lot of times, depending on your personality, like you want to make sure that you still remain being the son or the daughter in those dynamics and that loving relationship can kind continue and it it can shift if we become the caretakers. Right. Would you say that in the case of like us caring for our parents?
Speaker: One of the questions I ask people initially is it do you want to buy a lot long term care insurance? that What I initially asked me was what do you want your caregiving to do?
Speaker: Where do you want your caregiver? I mean, to start to think about it. And some people have had experience with caregiving. Some people haven't, or some people don't want to think about it or because it isn't, you know, they the the self-determination is is, it isn't fun.
Speaker: And it isn't. It is part of life. And so when we talk about caregiving, we have to have to think in advance. If I needed caregiving, who's gonna be responsible for caregiving? Where do I want it? Do I want it at home? do i Depending on the situation, will I really need to be in some sort of care center?
Speaker: And but all the there are all all these decisions. And ultimately, it's how you're going to pay for it, because even if you are the spouse or partner, there's there's if if there isn't a financial expense, there's certainly an emotional toll.
Speaker: Actually, we we had lunch with a fellow family we've known for many years, and his wife died last year. and And he was a caregiver for his wife and they had a really you know wonderful relationship. i mean, a really nice, wonderful, loving relationship.
Speaker: There was a a physical and emotional toll along with the grief now on him of things that he delayed. So if you have a caregiving plan, i didn't say always that you need insurance is have a caregiving plan.
Speaker: So that if this happens, what are you going to do so that you could, those that need caregiving have their needs met, but also the people in charge that are thinking about that. Are you hiring the right people? If you need want to hire people or if you're involved, what tasks and responsibility do you want and what are you good at?
Speaker: And they're and, and, and when I was saying I'm not caregiving material. I know things there are things that I'm good at and the things I just don't want to do. It's not because I don't want to like to do. it I just don't want to do it.
Speaker: I'll do it if I have to, but I'm not I'm not going to do it with enthusiasm.
Speaker: That it's under, it's important to understand not only who you are as a person, if by chance you're the one that ends up needing caregiver, but who are the people around you then that and what are their personalities and their strengths? Like you were just saying with your wife and yourself, like, you know what your strengths are. She knows then what your strengths and your weaknesses are. Then it's like, oh, well, if Raymond's not the best kid, caregiver material, then who would be my best caregiver? Would be my daughter? Would it be this? Right? So you you kind of have to know yourself, the type of care you want, but then also then knowing your circle around who would be able to, and if by chance they're not good at something, then who could you hire to have come in and do those parts of the equation that are still missing, correct? Would that be was part of the planning? yeah It's putting the team together. its Families have a role in it.
Speaker: and if And if they defer, then there are a lot of reasons why family defer. it it could be by distance. It could be some families get along, some people, some families don't. some Some families will do things, but they be begrudge it. So, and that's also important in the pre-planning too, is that, you know, what do you want your team to do and who, and what tasks and responsibilities? Because it may be that if you want the functional things, you may want to hire a licensed caregiver or, you know, somebody has the experience that can do certain things. And then other family members are taking care of the if needed, the financial or making the doctor's appointments or accompanying somebody on the doctor's appointments. Because that's also important, too, is that if you have a health issue, and I know this personally, get have somebody else, hire somebody else, ah you know, to come along with you to be your advocate.
Speaker: Because. When I, for example, when I go personally go to the doctor, I mean, it depends on the situation, but if if I'm not, if I'm in pain or I'm not well, i'm much I'm much happier having my wife as the advocate because I may or may not be interested in listening.
Speaker: may not really want to be participating, but I gotta be i gotta be there. So Barbara, will my wife will listen, you know be the advocate, ask the questions or do things. So that's that is the team.
Speaker: that is the team And if you're asking somebody, people that either are not good at it or or they begrudge it or or it just isn't something they want to do, is that think they think about that. It's the same as in life transition. When you die, hopefully you've picked out to say, you know, who do you want to be your executor? Who do you want to be the trustee, depending on depending on the state?
Speaker: state You know, you've got to pick people that have ah willing to take and have the ability and the knowledge to take care of certain certain tasks responsibilities. And if you if you think that death is final, the transition of an active lifestyle to needing caregiving, whether it's short-term or long-term, whatever that may mean, is that you need a team and a family or friends or hire hired people, you know, hired, I I don't want to say you hired help, but people people that you're hiring to help you with your what they call activities of daily living. And there are a lot of activities in daily living. And you know people say, well, I don't really understand. I said, well, let me give you with the plot.
Speaker: If you are a parent, if you've ever brought up children, That's the tasks and responsibilities. They're just, you know, it's it's a different relationship. It's the same the same thing. Get up, get dressed, shower, shave, whatever you need to do. You know, you have all those little tasks and responsibilities that you are putting upon your children. You really think it's any different when you're older? to say It's the same thing. you're just You're just older. You do have more rights and responsibilities responsibilities, and you but probably have better verbal skills, but it's all it's all it's all the it's it's all the same things. you just you just big bigger you just and You're and you're older.
Speaker: ah But it it is really much there really is, in my mind, much, much difference. That's such a good point because there are little things. had lived in my grandma's for three years and she got a stroke at one point and then we decided she didn't need extra help. And part of it was she was also no longer going to be able to drive. And so she no longer had a license at one point either. So the day-to-day things of even her going to the post office and going to her things, even though I lived there, I was in college. I would i couldn't be that role even though I lived with her. So we did hire somebody that would come day to day and do the very simple things and even do her nails and all these kind of things that would also make her feel, you know, just special and taken care of things that she probably wasn't able to do that much for herself anymore. So as you're saying that, yeah, there are so many little things day to day that we all do need that extra energy.
Speaker: hand for and especially if we can't do it, if there's a limitation, physical limitation, health limitation, cognitive limitation that we do need that extra help. The other question I had for you is you're saying that then there's so we can have a caregiving plan then how does a caregiving like insurance component of it in real like I'd like to you. Okay, you be put into this bucket per se. And then when you're able to then use it, how does it work?
Speaker: Tell us tell us the nuts and bolts of actually taking action into planning.
Speaker: I'll give you a specific example and then I'll give you a perspective about it My mother was worth you know tens of millions of dollars. She had a couple million dollars in in income. She was not she she was beyond you know high net worth or whatever, or ultra net worth. and on And, um, and she owned a long-term care plan. And I asked her, why, did you own it? She said, and she was here's an estate planning attorney. Here's somebody that they weren't, they weren't insurance buyers. They bought what they needed, but they didn't buy all of us, the, all us, the extra, but she had came up with the best explanation ever heard is she said, she said, nobody has that much money to pay for the lifestyle and their caregiving.
Speaker: now let Now, let's put this in perspective, but how should somebody evaluate this? If they have a financial planner or they have a wealth advisor, if they haven't thought of it or they ask them, if a financial planner, wealth advisor,
Speaker: doesn't advocate for it, and they say, well, you have a couple of million, you know, you don't need it. I think it's a form of malpractice. I didn't say it's actual malpractice. And here's what i what I mean by that is they should say, well, you know, I don't advocate it because I don't like it or or it's a a waste of money. or it's a But I think what they all should say is,
Speaker: this may be important to you. So, and I don't do it, but I will refer you to people you know to have the conversation. So now, how do you think about what what kind of caregiving plan that you should have and and what form should you fund it?
Speaker: If you go to my website and you go to the upper left, ah you can put in ah your lifestyle and it will give you sort of an idea of what your your life expectancy might be. And then we'll also go into what care costs. And you can also put in your assets. And so you can say, look, if I'm making $80,000 year,
Speaker: in both social security retirement whatever you know uh and the other other kinds of investments uh if it's throwing off 80 000 a year okay then what's your lifestyle are you living up you know are you using all six seven thousand for your lifestyle that would be a clue that maybe you then need a an additional plan or or reduce your lifestyle if that's what you need to do because you can't pay for lifestyle and caregiving at the same time as as if there's no effect, there's an effect. So, ah and you know care, it'll show you care, give you the cost of care. And so yeah that's what, that's one of some, you know, a way to, way to think about it. Another is is to say, well, I'll self fund or I'll, I'll do this, or I don't want to think about it. I'll do just in time.
Speaker: That's when I get those calls, I mean, then then there's two two things. First, the there's almost nobody that isn't mad at me because they'll say I'll say, well, there's nothing I can do. I mean, and the only exception is if you have funds not needed for your retirement, like a a non-qualified annuity or life insurance or some other, an IRA, something that you can transition,
Speaker: Even if you almost have no health, I can help you. But not everybody has that. So there are things you can do. But the reason people, so if you wait just in time, then that's your decision. But then don't get mad at me because there isn't a plan of available. I mean, if your if if your house is flooded, don't go to the insurance company and say, hi, now I decided I need homeowner's insurance.
Speaker: um Just in time. is exactly what it means just in time, but it's not just in time to help, you know, ah there aren't plans just in time. So these are ways that, you know, you can evaluate it. Just the same as how do you evaluate ah how much do you need for retirement? You know, you look at your ah assets and you see how it's growing and you see what income you will need that also has an inflation aspect to it. And you can also evaluate if I live in Washington state or I live in the state of Texas.
Speaker: Is that a state that, and if i want and if I want to stay there with cost of living, can I stay there? If not, do I need to move simply another state or or or to Romania or Yugoslavia or someplace? I mean, and and and and and you might think that I'm being sarcastic about it, but you know, I mean, those are choices that people do make. And there's some people are in the America is not their first country of origin. So you might go back to Colombia or you know Venezuela or something. And it's not a character flaw. It's just you might say, here's my cost of living or Portugal. ah There are a lot of places that you can go. So you know,
Speaker: the same as you think about your retirement what you know how much do you have uh where do you want to live what's the cost of living uh what's the inflation so these are ways in order to determine if i don't have this am i willing to spend a small percentage one or two percent of my income to own a plan so that if I need care, it doesn't, it's not messing around with my lifestyle, expand my assets, my income.
Speaker: I got, so I got, I got another, I got another way to pay, pay for pay for it. So then when the time comes, when, the when, when, the when when the the, the emergency light comes on, when the blinkers are, are happening that you, that, that you know, that you have a plan.
Speaker: that will pay for these caregiving services so that you can continue to live your lifestyle? That's a long answer to your short question. No, no, but it's the perfect it's a perfect answer because it is a layered response because it is, it's true. Like all these examples that you gave regarding even just retirement and the having, maybe I do have money. I just use that then for when I do want to pay long-term care. I want to say that I'm one of those that I'm like, do i like i pay I pay medical insurance, right? But I'm like, I'm paying my copayment.
Speaker: Every time I go to the doctor, every time I go and I'm like, do I, why do I even have medical insurance if I'm still paying so much out of pocket? Cause I haven't even met my deductible. Do people feel that same way sometimes with long-term care? And what happens if by chance they do end up paying for this type of service and they don't end up, let's say, needing it. What happens then? Let's say you end up dying before being able to use it, right? Let's say you don't end up having to need it. What what what happens? Just curious. Do you want the pleasant answer or you want the Raymond sarcastic answer? You can give me both. Give us both. What do you want to do? The sarcastic one? Whichever one you want. You can be yourself here, Raymond. You can be sarcastic. This is sarcastic answer.
Speaker: Do you own home insurance? Absolutely. Yes. were Car insurance. Yes. How often have you used your homeowner's insurance or your car insurance? ah I've actually used them.
Speaker: I've actually used them. Yeah. Both and some yeah either because of I live in Texas. So hail, hail storm. Yeah. So mine and yeah. car So I do, I have used those. Okay.
Speaker: A lot of people haven't, but my point is that, you know, it's, we have it, but if if you, if you didn't use it, would you be upset to say, gee, I'm really, I'm really upset that I didn't. True.
Speaker: True. Yes. Because then you'd be like, well, I could have used that money. No, I'm not saying it's just, yeah, it's just something that is just there in case of, I see you. That's a perfect, your sarcastic answer is the perfect answer for me because then it makes me realize I'm like, wait, that question was silly because we know it's it's less it's it's not silly because people put more value in their stuff or their things and owning a long-term care or having ah a caregiving plan is an investment in yourself.
Speaker: And if you really, when you start asking those questions that you You know, they used to, it wasn't an expression like, what about me? Or it's all about me. Well, if that's the case, then why, you know why would you put money into your stuff?
Speaker: And you're not going to put a, you're not going to insure yourself. you you You don't have, because you're in a way you're sort of a depreciating value, but, but whether, whether, no, it is because if you have long, if you have a caregiving plan, look, people, people why do you own life insurance? You own it because it either creates an estate or it pays for death benefits, ah you know, of, of, depending on your state and whether it pays for estate taxes, it's it's it's liquidity.
Speaker: Long-term care plans is liquidity. it It provides that money to pay for your care so it protects all the other things and doesn't disrupt it. And people, it isn't just burden on the family, it's a burden on your assets and it's also ah and there's and and they' and there's and there's an emotional emotional toll. but so So people will, they won't,
Speaker: Unless it's brought up, whether it's homeowners or your your car insurance, they'll say, well, I wasted my money. Well, in a way, yeah. I mean, if you if you never use it, yeah, it goes to money heaven.
Speaker: um However, if you did need it then at least you have have in place. I mean, look, I have AAA. it's not that I'm always excited about having to use AAA. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. But I'm not unhappy because if it's just in time, I'm not sitting there on the side of the road saying, now what do I do? You know, I i want, I, Raymond, I like my support services and I'm not waiting around and or, well, the other thing is my amygdala also gets overwhelmed where if I'm stuck in a unexpected situation, I like to have a plan to say, all right, here's, if my car or something else happens, do I have ah a plan that I can call somebody to help me
Speaker: in in an unexpected situation. i mean, that's why you have health insurance. If you knew in advance exactly when it is, then then then get it a week before.
Speaker: I mean, yeah's it's so true. No, it's so true because it, no, everything you're saying, even though my question was one of those that it's like, well, but it's so, because when you're hearing it, then of course you're like, oh, why don't I have it? It makes it so obvious to think of it that way. Now, do most people that have this type of insurance end up doing caretaking at home or can they also then use that to do caretaking facilities?
Speaker: it's a Most people, if you look at, I mean, all the people that are writing about it and the insurance carriers, most people want to begin at home. I do. um But it depends on the situation. if you are on your own, you have no family or you have family, but whether they get along or they don't, it's proximity.
Speaker: It's, you know, somebody says, look, uh, you know, if you're in an apartment or you or and you have stairs and and and you have mobility issue, it may be impractical where you live. it just mean And it's not a character flaw, it's just ah circumstances. um Now, if you can transition to, you know, if you're in an apartment and you don't have an elevator, you can get to another floor and and and and and and you can move, that's fine. Most people would rather be in wherever their residence.
Speaker: at least to begin and depends on what the what what what are the medical sort of circumstances is it is it mobility issue is it is it cognitive is it frailty what's the issue what's going on here you know and whether you can stay at home and if you do is your home modified that you can that you can stay at home and if you don't if you have a spouse and partner what what are their capabilities If not, and you're alone, going to a quality care center can be a wonderful experience. You have all the activities. i so Let me also confess, too, I'm not care care center material. i'll get I'll get dismissed and expelled.
Speaker: Why? Because it's just my personal, it's not that I, I just don't want, I don't want people to always tell me what to do or or have ah have a list of, now the dance class is this and and the water aerobics is this. i know, somehow I'm just not interested in those kind of that kind of scheduling. But look, i may I may feel different. So I'd much rather be at home where I have you know family and friends and we have we're working actually on our home modifications that we can stay here indefinitely unless unless it become impossible. And then my wife says, hi, they're coming to pick you up because you're going to care center. You know, I've had it. I've had it.
Speaker: It's no problem. And within within a week, I'll be back home because I'll get myself dismissed. I'm good at it. She might just put you up in a hotel. She might have saved enough to just put you out in a hotel if they kick you out of the thing.
Speaker: I'll accept the resort hotel. All right. i'm i'm i'm I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm willing to be flexible about that. Yeah. If it's a, if it's a, if it's a resort hotel, if it's someplace and I, and I have room service and stuff, I'm okay.
Speaker: You know what I'm thinking is you should do the retirement cruise ship, like just like not retirement, a caregiving cruise ship, just go on a cruise ship. And then you just go, you're in your room that they should actually create some of these caregiving cruise ships. That would be like perfect.
Speaker: you know You know, interesting you bring that up. my When my father was in the last couple of years before he died, i mean he was, he was, when he got his last hard thing, I mean, it was, it was a death sentence. He was going to die. um But ah my mother, know, and, you know, he'd he'd get home fever, you know, they used to call cabin fever, home fever, where she, they used to go on some really nice cruises. And she and actually being on a cruise and if you have health or mobility issues is a great place to be because you and she would plan in advance and make sure that she had care support on on the ship. And there are a lot of things that they that they will do. i mean, yeah, you're you're you're gratuity, you're tipping. And so she she had the gratuity and the tipping money. But yeah. And so it was great. He was happy.
Speaker: She was happy. Have a change of scenery. things to do. So yeah, that's, a and and and as and as lousy a health as he was and im mobility, yeah, going on being being on, being on a cruise or cruise ship, great way to do it.
Speaker: Yeah, I just wish that that the insurance could pay for that. Then we could be all set. Can you imagine? Like, you're like, this is going to be, this is my caring choice. I'm going to be on a cruise ship for the next few years. ah And enjoy my life.
Speaker: Well, there are people that do that, but I hadn't, well, actually there are, there, there, there are cruises. I forgot what, I used to get the email about it. Yeah. People that have health and mobility issues that would take a week cruise. I haven't, I haven't received in a while, but yes, there are, there are cruises like that. That's awesome. That's awesome. Maybe that's, that's the way that that's the way to do. So,
Speaker: We've got these type of scenarios here. We're kind of playing devil's advocate here with some of the questions and then just playing the, the the what did you say, the sarcastic aspect too, but it's all very real. And we can bring the humor in, but the reality is people are afraid to talk about their own, we have this podcast because people are afraid to talk about their own mortality. And they're also really not comfortable talking about these end of life kind of choices of how do I want the quality of my life to be? And these things that happen with caregiving can happen at any age. Any of us could end up needing caregiving at any particular point in our life, not just as as we age. So what is the average age of people already starting to look into this that you know of, at least in your
Speaker: in your business of people approaching you that let's say the youngest quote unquote age of people already starting to plan if something that they were going to need long-term care yeah the answer to the second question and all that is the usual range is people start thinking about it in their 40s they might do it in their they might do it in their 60s some people wait to their 70s when they start getting some warning lights And it's it's not a good idea in your 70s even your 60s. And the reason is is
Speaker: time And what I mean by that is the closer you are to expiration, whatever that may be, premiums are higher. Your health, in order to get a plan, you don't need to be in great health, but but there are a criteria to it. If you have a preexisting conditions, if you have a number of health issues, you have a neurological and you've had a heart condition, maybe things where it may either exclude you or you get rated. So it's a premium. it's's it's It's more expensive.
Speaker: It's like if you buy a previously owned, now I'm so old, I remember used car. um You know, it's not, it's not, it's not awful, but it's, it's previously owned. So therefore it has wear and tear.
Speaker: And so it's going to cost you more. So the younger you can, you get the plan, or I really would like it if parents could do it is to buy a plan, just like any buy the Gerber life insurance plan is the parents actually bought a plan for their children, maybe for a period of time actually pay the premiums because it's a lot less expensive when you're younger in premium And it gives you benefits time to grow because you usually have a cost of living inflation clause to it. So the so the the monthly benefits grow.
Speaker: So $2,000 or $3,000. I mean, if you buy when we have 40, 45 years, realize if you had a 3% inflation benefit to that, what it would be in 35, 40, 45 years? I mean, it would be wonderful. You may never need to add to the plan.
Speaker: What you're doing is you're buying time. And I'll give you a comparison. When you go into the nursery store, the plant store, and you see this plant and it costs $2.50, or you see the same plant or tree, you know, it's $1,500, it's $2,500.
Speaker: ah same same plant, same tree. What's the difference? One is a a potted, you know, a little plant. You're buying time. So if you if you're willing to spend the time, get the 250.
Speaker: Plant it and then and then wait and it will go into the tree. But if you don't have the time, now the tree costs more because you but you're buying you're buying time. And so that's the same in in in caregiving plan. But look, it's the same in retirement planning. you know You're going to tell me you're going to a year from now say, I want to retire, but I but i only have $500 in savings. and Do you really think you're going to be able to retire? You've got to give it time is my is where I'm going with it. You've got to give it time. And so if you think that your caregiving plan, and the if you think you're going to have enough assets, whenever ye is you need it and you never know,
Speaker: Fine, then that's what you're going to do. Or to say, transfer the risk. i'll um i'll transfer the risk to somebody else just in case. And that's, so when when you when should you start the retirement planning?
Speaker: as Today, put $15 away, start something, get ah get in that habit. But it it would be the same with a ah long-term care plan. The sooner you get it, premiums are lower, usually your health, it's easier to get.
Speaker: That is perfect answer. And I think it's very useful to know this information. And I love all the different examples. I love the example of the plant because it's so true. So I was like, why am i going to buy a tree for two of those? But you're right. It's time. And the same with the little sapling. i like I like examples. It makes it very easy for me to grasp onto an idea. So thank you for those examples <unk> of why it is that it costs less when we're younger to buy these type of services than it would when we are older and then also just what we can accumulate in terms of revenue as we are investing. It's like an investment right right now and into that our future. So thank you for that, Raymond. Raymond, what would you say? Because I know in your in your bio, it was saying that some of these things are really like an act of love. When we choose to buy these things, it's not only an act of personal love, but really when we're buying this, it's an act of love to our
Speaker: family as we're doing this, expand on that, please. Why would but buying yourself caregiving be an act of love? There are there are two several ways you can look at it.
Speaker: One is if if if if if if if you like yourself and want to invest in yourself, Because if you're on your own, i don't want to be a alone. i mean, I want to, again, i don't want to be alone on the side of the road, not having somebody to call. Now, now I'm so old. I remember when call boxes were the big thing. Everybody, oh, yeah, if I'm stuck, because I've been i've been stuck with without a call box. and And we didn't have phones in our cars or phone phones. phones at all so what you do is you get out and you put the flares and stuff people that are we used to you used to carry flares just in case so that and you hope that some driver or the police would come by now it's obviously easier you can call you that you can call somebody um so i forgot where i forgot where i was with the question tell how me can i come the question was why would it be considered an act of love alter this yeah the act of love is that you're doing it for you for yourself
Speaker: because you're saying, look, I don't wanna be alone or that I don't wanna use my own assets to pay because I i need it for lifestyle. So I wanna be able to hire people that will take care of me. The other is that you're doing it for your family.
Speaker: when you When you have a relationship and you know and and relationships in the 21st century is a lot different than you know what we think of relationships in the 20th century. What I mean by that is It isn't just married couples you know of gender, male, female.
Speaker: Now it's the same gender. it's it's its It's not everybody's married. Not everybody and people have kids. Not everybody's married. They have and they have children or they have adopted children. so they or they And there are blended families. And also, i mean, sometimes there are families that show up either when somebody dies or even before. Some people have what they call hidden families or unexpected families. Somebody shows up high. And and I've heard of stories like like like that. So you do it because if you love your family and you've made commitments to each other,
Speaker: caregiving is about as, I mean, other than childbirth, death and sex, I don't know, i caregiving, I don't know what's more intimate, I don't know what's more personal. And so these are the things that I think are important important for people to have that plan. If you care about families, how is it going to affect them? I mean, you know, the terms are, you know, burden on the family. But I think it's ah almost become a cliche as if, you know, if you do that, you know, you'll say, aha, you know, now I understand.
Speaker: And some people, you know, it is also interesting that people that have been in caregiving situations, they usually miss the plot. of saying well gee if this happened maybe i need a caregiving plan a lot of people they they just don't it sort of goes away i'll give you a person again when i had my first heart attack I got the plot. I wasn't as organized as I thought I should be. And I'm in the business of advising people about ah their caregiving plan. We had that, but I was not as organized as I thought I would be with my medical power and my and ah and just access to just information, ah medical information. I'm a lot better organized now. So when a caregiving situation happens, If you're not organized and you don't have all the information available, it is crisis. It is chaos.
Speaker: And you're It doesn't but matter to you. Ask yourself, how is this going to affect the people I love, the people that I promise to participate? You know, because that's what, isn't that the term of family is or your some sort of togetherness and and and and commitment?
Speaker: Isn't that what families? Yeah. Yeah. Because some are chosen. Some are chosen. Some families are chosen. Some you're born into, but some you choose. So yes. so Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There's always that joke about, ah do I want to be with my family or or or my loved ones?
Speaker: Oh, I had never heard that one. So hopefully your loved ones are your family as well. So that that would be the ideal situation. It depends. I mean, you know, it depends.
Speaker: It's more, I mean, when when you're as old as I am, maybe the art the the arc is sometimes your family isn't always ah the best people to be be around. Sometimes, you know, it's ah it's other other people that have more empathy or you or you care more about. i mean, this is also the the thing in caregiving. If you have a spouses or you have children, they may, you know, it depends on the relationship.
Speaker: It depends where they live. It depends, you know, ah um You know, can you can you have a good conversation with them? Can you be ah honorable with with with each other? If you can't, then you need to have people that, you know, can be your caregivers. Or you do you even trust them? Because if you're asking them to do financial things, you know, you've got to make sure that you have people that are are trustworthy and honorable and also capable. This is just they know how to write the checks. It's, know, are they capable of doing it? You know, because you're giving people
Speaker: personal information, you know, and access information, passwords, you know access to accounts. So, you know, there are a lot of you know little you know nuances in in here. when you know When we think of caregiving, you always think, you know, bathing, dressing, you know, continents, all all those things. is it The tasks are uh uh go far you know can go far beyond and i'm not talking about just making the sandwiches and the soup and all that stuff it's uh you know making the appointments making sure that the medications and you're taking care of that taking care of all the financial stuff and if you're at home are things running the way they are is the hvac you know has ah has it been serviced lately and the electrical
Speaker: and and f yeah plumbing. It's wide. Yeah, it's a lot. It's, yeah, it's so it's everything that requires of a but home caretaking and not only your individual self, but the home itself is part of that caretaking. Yeah, is the roof is a roof in good shape? If you clean the gutters, you know, ah ah so you know how's the landscaping? you know, you may think, you know, ha ha, you know, that is important, but you know, to some people, you know, yeah if landscaping of the home is important to them, in a way it sort of makes it sad if if it deteriorates because they're not capable of maintaining it the way they want. And also brings on, you know, other issues. I mean, not ah not only health issues, but life safety issues. You know, make sure that the the refrigerator, you know, ah people forget and you find out that you have soup in there that has an expiration of 2020. mean, you may think that's funny, but you don't pay that sound fair.
Speaker: Yeah, that would be food poisoning. That person can have food poisoning and things like that out of their own thing if they're not being carried out. So many good points and so many things that we really overlook because either we choose to because it's, again, all these things are very hard conversations.
Speaker: to have and even again, even acknowledge for ourselves of our own need at one point to have somebody care for us. And so it's it's very hard to to to face it. But it's so important, again, to have these conversations and have it someone else be able to give us advice for these type of things we need. So Raymond, as we're wrapping up, How can people get ahold of you? I know I, I write it in the show notes. I'll write your website there. Can you just say the name of your website just, and I'll make sure to include it of course, in the show notes.
Speaker: If you want to, you know, if you're so motivated and and inspired by, you know, your podcasts and whatever it is that I'm talking about, the best way is to have a two-way conversation. Call me, area code 253-275-6091. And I'm in Washington state, but I'm licensed in other states. But if if you're calling from some other state that I'm not licensed, I can certainly put you in contact with somebody that they may not may not be as fun as I am, but they certainly are capable and knowledgeable.
Speaker: that's That's one way. The other way is to go to my website, Very quick. If you go to the upper left, you can put in your lifestyle and then it'll give you an idea about care expenses.
Speaker: But in the lower right, ah there are three dots. You can put in information and most of it, like how much is the long-term care insurance? It'll give you all that. So although I do have frequently asked questions, at at at one of the links, if you really want to put in, ah ah you know, to request like, what will a long-term care plan do for me? I mean, you can ask all kinds of questions that will give you that kind of information. And because you're not buying,
Speaker: just like your homeowner's insurance, and you're buying or you have a long term care plan, not because you want love the idea of a long term care plan and certainly not because say, gee, I love paying the premiums. It just really is something I desire to do. It's you really need to think of in the perspective of what's what what's this plan going to do for me? Psychic health insurance. Why do you do it? You don't do it because you love health insurance. You do it because you you want you want to pay for the doctors and hospitals and you don't want to have to write a check for $50,000 or $100,000 or a million, whatever. And that's the same with the long-term care plan is then you don't have to write the checks. The other thing too is also it when you get the benefits, it's not taxable.
Speaker: And if you have have a business, you can deduct a premium. So there there are there are there you don't don't buy it because of that. I mean, buy it because it has those advantages. But there there there are things there are good there. It's a good investment. really It's really a good investment when you look at it, the perspective of I got I'm going to get care. I'm going to I'm going to have the money I pay for caregiving. And I don't have there isn't a line. I say, gee, I got $75,000 in long term care benefits. You know, it's a tax. It's it's not taxable. So you you don't have to put it on adjusted an income.
Speaker: Perfect. Thank you, Raymond. Raymond, I'd like to end with asking you to share something to the listeners that I might have not asked you already. like Your last words in the podcast.
Speaker: Interesting. We're doing our estate planning and I've been ah procrastinating because I couldn't figure out what it was that I want when I die, what do I want to do? and I may seem stupid, ah but it was, that was the thing that was just really holding me up. And in my life and I have been talking about, I mean, I'm a veteran, so I could be at a veteran cemetery. I have a purpose with theoretical. I could go to Arlington, but I'm not going to Arlington. I'm not bringing Barbara to Arlington. i don't think she'd enjoy it. She might enjoy the trip, but there's no, so, so she, you know, we're thinking about, you know cremation and funerals and, And I said, I'm just, um the nothing's inspiring me. So she actually came, we're looking, but I'm turned into mulch.
Speaker: So I'll be, you know, so I'll be regenerated. And whether they want to spread me around, you know, our house or something. So that brought, you know, That that made you know the rest of the estate planning easier. The hardest thing wasn't how we wanted to distribute our estate and the house. and Those were actually all the easy things. I just was just hung up and what a what what do I want to do with Raymond? So now i have this now now we can get a plan in place. Now I now i have enthusiasm.
Speaker: now Now that you've already made the hardest choice, when your at least in your estate planning, you're good. you can You can move on. So the same then with these kind of things. Sometimes the hardest choice is sometimes the simplest that somebody like yourself can kind of give you a little bit of guidance and make those Does it ask the right, somebody that can ask you the right questions with empathy to be able to help you decide what is the best plan for you. So thank you again, Raymond, for being on the podcast, sharing all your insights, your sarcasm as well, and information. And ah yeah, for the listeners, thanks for tuning in.
Speaker: Thank you, Raymond. Thank you. It's been my pleasure.
Speaker: thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
Speaker: If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
Speaker: Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
Speaker: And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.
