Transcript
Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker: Alright, welcome back everybody to Casual Nerdities Clone Watch! Woohoo! Yeah! Yahoo! I am Daryl, as always.
Speaker: And I'm Lauren.
Speaker: And while you both talked over one another... but We have somebody else with us today. Yes, by popular demand that is her own, she threatened to hurt us all if she couldn't come on for this episode.
Speaker: She was going to have a deadly meme upon all of us. I'm back! And yes, I do in fact know where all of you live or how to figure that out very easily. And we we wouldn't have it any other way than having Betsy back for this this episode.
Speaker: Because... It's true because it's the way that lets you stay alive. Yes. Well, there's there's that too. um Now, for all of you it's been a that are out there listening, it's been a pretty regular every other week.
Speaker: A new casual nerdity comes out. Well, a little peek behind the curtains. We had stockpiled a bunch of episodes and had them uploaded and scheduled.
Speaker: And so it's actually been a couple of months since we all got together to record. And so what what all have we been up to in that time other than you know fear and existential dread of existence?
Speaker: Winter! I got a beard. Permanently. I've been playing Toho, so, you know, I've been dodging all of the bullets. Just constantly. I have to dodge all of the rain.
Speaker: oh you play i understood that reference, and yeah sort of. And you played a did i survive ah Jedi Fallen Order. Yes, yes, this is also true. And I annihilated Nick's soul with my good gameplay.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know how you defeated the Ogdo Bogdo like that. I wasn't even there and heard about it, and I still have PTSD about when I bought that thing. I just want to know how you destroyed his soul when he sold it years ago. Well, you see, the thing is, is that he said that i got whenever I got to Ogdo Bogdo, he bet me like $50 that I wouldn't be able to beat Ogdo before leaving or going to sleep that night.
Speaker: and And then I beat Ogdo Bogdo in five minutes. Yes, I'm not right. but Because you see, I'm a Toho player, so I annihilate all who dare oppose me in video games.
Speaker: You underestimated her power there. I did. although All those who chose to oppose your shield must yield? Yes. Oh, wait, wait, wrong franchise, sorry. Well, you see, the thing is is that I am very good at parrying in the game, so that's basically true.
Speaker: Gotcha, gotcha. Well... This time around, I want to dive right in because even though we're only looking at three episodes, I've seen the show notes and we have a lot to say about these three episodes.
Speaker: There is so much. I'm sorry, but I'm not. and I'm not sorry at all. And so we're going to take a look at the introduction to some important characters and concepts to Star Wars lore with the first Mandalorian arc, the Mandalorian plot, season two, episode 12.
Speaker: Voyage of Temptation, Season 2, Episode 13, and Duchess of Mandalore, Season 2, Episode 14, This is the Way. This is the Way. This is the Way. you know the Way?
Speaker: to San Jose? To Zimbabwe. Oh, no. I i can go my own way. such Can you call it another day? Can you go to distance? Don't lose your way.
Speaker: okay we Keep going, guys. How many of these can we fit in we are We are having way too much fun being back together to record. Indeed. Indeed. indeed we're not even in the same room, but it feels like we are.
Speaker: Well, I mean, given that we are most every weekend. So, yeah you know, to those who don't know that we're part of a gaming group together, that might have sounded kind of weird. ah But I... Is it more or less weird if we talk about how Nick needs to change the will?
Speaker: That's a different kind of weird. It's the secret polycule you see.
Speaker: but And on that, though, let's get into this episode. yeah First up is The Mandalore Plot, Season 2, Episode 12. The official logline says, While investigating rumors of conspiracy surrounding Duchess Satine of Mandalore, Obi-Wan uncovers the truth about a mysterious Mandalorian plot.
Speaker: So Obi-Wan is sent to neutral Mandalore, and the Republic is concerned that Mandalore is raising an army to aid the Separatists. to meet with Mandalore's leader Duchess Satine.
Speaker: Now overall this is a rare experience for the Clone Wars as it's an episode focused fully on Obi-Wan as the main character with no Anakin, Ahsoka, or other Jedi and an absence of clone troopers.
Speaker: It's basically his real first real solo outing. Yes. And as he enters the city, we see so much cube. There is so much cube, y'all.
Speaker: What is this, Minecraft? yes Something something parkour. You've explained this to me before, and I don't fully understand that reference, but, you know, that Yes, yes. Yeah, and there's there's a lot of windows in architecture that are inspired by elements of Boba Fett's armor.
Speaker: And are very similar to the cubism style of art. For example, Pablo Picasso from the early 20th century, like 1909 to 1912. Not I've been to an art class or two.
Speaker: Yeah, plus, you know, good amount of surrealism for good measure. And it's pretty thematically appropriate with the whole Mandalore being a planet decimated by war thing. You know, right down to the Mando-style Guernica we're going see later.
Speaker: Art history nerds, you know what I'm talking about. And if you're not an art history nerd, just skim the Wikipedia article for the Spanish Civil War and you'll kind of get the gist. Also, since I said I could say it, about Almec saying Satine values peace more than her own life, foreshadowing is a literary device. Yeah, stop right there.
Speaker: that it that We know that's a running gag, but, you know, come Are you doing a spoilers at me? but No, no spoilers for Lauren.
Speaker: Hey, I stopped. I stopped. I stopped you. Stopping happened. that You get about two minutes into the episode before we get a couple of statements that turned a portion of the fandom on its collective head and caused... um We're going to call this spirited debate for years.
Speaker: That's to put it mildly. You can say Karen Travis. It's okay. I'll say Karen Travis in a little bit. Just don't say it three times or else it'll appear. Oh no. can call you a taen oh Which would be worse saying that or, or that Harry Potter author's name three times?
Speaker: Oh no. It would be worse for me for saying the Harry Potter's author. This is true. but But let's take a a listen to this. What ruffled so many feathers?
Speaker: General Kenobi. Thank you for meeting with me, Prime Minister Almak. I welcome you as a servant of the people, but I am troubled by the false rumors that brought you here.
Speaker: Mandalore would never turn against the Republic. The Duchess Satine values peace more than her own life. Oh, I'm aware of the Duchess's views. Master Kenobi, Mandalore's violent path is behind us.
Speaker: All of our warriors were exiled to our moon, Concordia. They died out years ago. Hmm. Are you certain? I recently encountered a man who wore Mandalorian armor.
Speaker: Jango Fett. Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me. Jango Fett mentioned!
Speaker: So there there were quite a few people, including Karen Travis. Okay, we didn't say it twice in a row. We're safe. Yeah, yeah there's a there's a gap. It counts. It's fine. And those people were displeased with the idea of Mandalore being a pacifist culture and with Jango Fett not being a Mandalorian character.
Speaker: i'm not I'm not saying that I liked to push the buttons of a guy on the old Star Wars RPG forums who wasn't... But you're not saying that? I'm not not saying that either about Jango not being Mandalorian.
Speaker: But Lucas himself had a hand in both of those decisions. He wanted Mandalore to kind of buck the viewer's expectations. And he also insisted that Jango Fett, and by extension Boba, was not a Mandalorian.
Speaker: and dave filoni even talked about it and here's what he had to say about it on the rebel force radio podcast and dave filoni is the ah creator and basically the show runner for clone wars and many projects and and learned at the knee of george lucas in discussions directly with george he was very adamant about um Django not being Mandalorian, which is the entire reason why that scene existed that moment.
Speaker: um To have the the specificity that Django was not Mandalorian, at least not to Almec, not to those Mandalorians. So, you know, I think that the assumption being when Attack of the Clones came out, um of course, Django must be a Mandalorian because there he had the armor.
Speaker: But, you know, he's a bounty hunter. Bounty hunters, as we showed in the series, were all kinds of armor. um Of course, Wilbur Fett famously wearing Mandalorian armor. So you have that tradition of his father's son wearing this armor, but it doesn't speak to, like, the bigger warrior cast. Now, Jenga was a bounty hunter that somehow came into having that armor. Perhaps he ran for a period with Mandalorians, was adopted into that warrior culture for a period and trained with them.
Speaker: and gained greater skills at that point. I think all that's possible, but would he have a direct blood relation to that line like Satine would? No. He wouldn't be a warrior of that nature. you know um He's different.
Speaker: And he's you know not working the most honorable profession anyway, the warrior being a bounty hunter.
Speaker: Yeah, so... That was a very intentional call by Lucas to say, no he's not Mandalorian now. you Spoiler alert, that's been kind of retconned since then.
Speaker: but In a certain point of view. yeah Kind of. Maybe. A little. But yes, so this please was the previous mentioned author, Karen Travis, who is was very popular in the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
Speaker: Best known for her Republic Commando series of novels, which were... good! And more infamous for her contributions to legacy the legacy of the Force series of novels.
Speaker: Sorry, I had a little something caught in my throat there. Yes, happens to the best of us. And... was picked to work on a Star Wars Ascenso Guide to Warfare at the time, known as the Ascenso Guide to the Star Wars Military. She ended up quitting due to this controversy over continuity changes, as she had had a huge, at the time, in the lead now Legends continuity and then exp Expanded Universe continuity on world building of Mandalore and Mandalorians.
Speaker: and thus hasn't worked with Lucasfilm and the Star Wars property since.
Speaker: Yep. And like, on the one hand, I kind of get where she's coming from because it sucks to out have this thing you spent years building, get suddenly retconned out of existence, but also at the end of the it wasn't her call to make.
Speaker: Also, I'm going to be real, I've thought about it for more than 10 seconds, and it'd be super easy for both ideas to coexist if you just make the logical hop slightly above average length step.
Speaker: don't know, not quite a leap. But that a planet's inhabitants aren't a monolith, and just, you know, make that plot hole into a feature instead of a bug.
Speaker: And also George Lucas had gone on record not being a fan of the expanded universe himself, and ultimately had a final say, as you said. And as as far as what Betsy was just saying, just kind of picture me vaguely gesturing in the direction of all three seasons of The Mandalorian.
Speaker: Yep. We'll get to that, Lauren. Probably when you're like 80. Nice. In our Star Wars chronological watch. I'll be dead by then.
Speaker: oh boy, we're going to have to replace you. Honestly, we probably will be too. Have you looked at that? Yeah, fair. yeah Yeah. I'm going to be a robot So we get more cool Mandalorian architecture design, all cubes and glass. And when Satine comes in, it's pretty clear that she and Obi-Wan already have some sort of history.
Speaker: oh is that what the kids are calling it? No, the kids are calling it Corky, but laur and Lauren isn't there yet. Technically he is but also not. Yeah. So yeah, we get, uh, we, then, uh, Death Watch terrorism ensues.
Speaker: Yes, the idea of Death Watch. Mandalorian renegades who, quote, idolize violence and the warrior ways of the past. Yep, pay attention, class, this will be on the test.
Speaker: Yes, just a bunch of renegades from a galaxy far, far away, ah long, long time ago. Well, we learn now that Death Watch is being supported by Count Dooku,
Speaker: to overthrow Satine. Just as in the Legends continuity slash former expanded universe, the Sith are puppeteering the Mandalorians to weaken and battle the Jedi slash the Republic from behind the scenes.
Speaker: ah Something, something poetry, something, something rhymes.
Speaker: Yep, and now we have Satine and Obi-Wan engaging in... Am I allowed to use the word foreplay on this podcast? Yeah, I don't think that will force me to mark it with any... fair enough because i mean you can't tell me that's not what that is you can't tell me who's trying to tell you that i'm not trying to tell you that that's not because power of the memes and that's not because you're threatening us i mean you know that even before clone wars started that kind of
Speaker: bickering, bantery, back and forth tension innuendo is a staple of TV. Exactly. yeah And the Star Wars in general.
Speaker: Moonlighting. ah Castle. ah you You name it. i've I'm drawing a blank on ah bones. Hawn and Leia. Yeah. I was going to say, you could literally just point to the entire rest of you know the Star Wars movies. Yeah.
Speaker: and except for adam Except for Padme and Anakin. They have a very special relationship. Yeah. oh do yeah um So a bombing happens near Satine and Obi-Wan and it's tagged with Death Watch's symbol.
Speaker: So Obi-Wan chases after somebody who seems guilty of being connected to this bombing.
Speaker: And the suspect throws himself off a ledge to his death Now remember, this is a kids show. Oh boy, we got death by Grammy. He's having a spark the electric gesture three moment, dying before even hitting the ground.
Speaker: Hey, hey, there wasn't any blood. It's fine. It's a classic Star Wars RPG death. He died the fall, damn it. Yeah, because if you're not you know a well-known named character, then that is the most deadly thing in the galaxy.
Speaker: Yeah, but looks like, you know, as the guy was dying, he said something right before he fully passed. Gee, I just wish there was someone who was lame enough to devote precious minutes of their life to trying to translate a non-existent fictional language loosely based on some fan and mandoba translations of dubious canonicity from a post made in 2007 on a forum that doesn't even exist anymore.
Speaker: But where, oh where, would we ever find such a pathetic being? It's me. I'm the pathetic being. And I kinda sorta know what he said. Oh boy!
Speaker: So, wikipedia gave a possible direct translation of the first line that the whole thing was taken verbatim from on the forum post, but the rest I kinda had to puzzle out, so here's what I got.
Speaker: The direct quote was, compassionate leaders will burn. and then, you know, my half-assed translation of the rest is, the soul, the death, the eternal glory, my eternal rest.
Speaker: The last line is literally more or less goodbye the sleep, so I'm just kinda abstracting here. And Satine's response was, may you rest eternal. Or kind of literally, yes, goodbye sleep.
Speaker: Yeah, I tried my best, but take all this with a metric ton of salt because, you know, I'm just kind of making this up as I go with what we have and it's not even technically canon. But that's but yeah, we kind of know what that dude said.
Speaker: But that's awesome. Most Star Wars languages is just, they're making it up as they go. And I mean, I'm sure you aren't the only one who was lame enough to devote precious moments of their life trying to translate a non-existent fictional language.
Speaker: But was I the one that, or was i not the only one that was lame enough to use the Wayback Machine to find the Pacific Foremost? you are as i did find You are the one that the most that is the most normal and average Star Wars fan to do with it.
Speaker: Normal amount, yes. are the one that we are speaking to right now who did that. Given the level of, um um what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker: um
Speaker: Attention to past details, we'll we'll say that that, that some in the Star Wars fan community have. I doubt you're the only one who's even used the Wayback Machine for it.
Speaker: but If you could could ah post a link to that link in the way back between, I'd like to take a look at that. See? See?
Speaker: Nerd. Oh no, a nerd in this group? In the casual nerdity podcast? Whoa! Don't go bringing facts into this and and muddying things up.
Speaker: So... Then we we get the entrance of Jon Favreau voicing Governor Vizsla, and this is not going to be his first involvement with Mandalorians.
Speaker: and Wait, did you mean to say first involvement or last involvement? It won't be his first, and or it won't, you know what? I did put that down wrong. It won't be his last involvement. Yeah. I am a dork.
Speaker: I read that and like, wait wait a second, are we going to see like a flashback with him later or something? Yes! Yes, sure. That's exactly what I meant. Yeah.
Speaker: That was totally intentional. I was just checking to see if you were paying attention to the notes. And I am. Because I clearly wasn't.
Speaker: But yes, Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni collaborated on ideas for Mandalorian culture for the Clone Wars series while they were working on respective films in 2008.
Speaker: The Clone Wars or's animated movie and the first Iron Man man film. The what? Never heard of it Why the first Iron Man film? You mean that one that my dad basically treats as like a religious experience for him?
Speaker: Yes. They screened them for each other. yeah And these talks continue to influence what we know of Mandalorian lore today.
Speaker: Vizsla is also the last name and clan of a popular Star Wars The Old Republic public character. character that appeared in the iconic, deceived cinematic trailer for that MMORPG, J. Vizsla.
Speaker: Another name possibly appearing in the same aforementioned test in the future. Ooh. You guys are lucky we're doing such a good job putting together a study guide for you. that Yeah, I'm definitely going to need this for later.
Speaker: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But yes, the Obie teen foreplay continues and, oh, on the wall, actually, if you look at this part of the episode, you will in fact see the Mando Gernica.
Speaker: and And it's, it's, it it's, it's correct in that, that is basically what it is
Speaker: And so Obi-Wan goes to check out an abandoned mine. yep he does his little Nancy Drew routine. And, you know, the pink favorite yeah all that's missing is the Pink Panther theme.
Speaker: And he finds Mandalorian jetpacks and he's attacked and captured by traditionally armored Mandalorians. Gasp! Oh no, Obi-Wan kidnapped! Isn't that a an Anakin job?
Speaker: yeah Usually.
Speaker: take Yeah. I mean, where where do you think Anakin learned it from? Master of getting caught, yeah. And so he he tries the whole, you know, oh no, yeah i' I'm here diplomatically.
Speaker: And like, has the I'm on a diplomatic mission thing ever worked in the history of the Star Wars? I don't think so. probably Not yet. Show me at least one example, because so far I've gotten none. Not yet. doing Well, I mean, it does work though.
Speaker: Does it count as I'm on a diplomatic mission? When Anakin or Obi-Wan commit their war crimes by fake surrendering? It's kind toss-up.
Speaker: Eh. We'll figure it out later. Ah, well.
Speaker: Yep. And then we have all this back and forth with Obi-Teen... And, you know, in watching this, I'm reminded of my biggest pet peeve with the whole pacifism thing, because it feels like either Satine doesn't know what pacifists or pacifism or nonviolence actually mean, or she just likes to pretend she doesn't to annoy people.
Speaker: Honestly, I'm kind of betting on the second one. Because, like, on the one hand, yeah, it's what it says on the tin, but self-defense, including physical violence toward an aggressor is 100% allowed. Like, she literally kicks the one dude in the chest, so she's okay with it on some level.
Speaker: But, you know, God forbid Obi-Wan do the almost the exact same thing. Plus, you can kick somebody's ass without, like, straight up murking them. And so be knocking out the Death Watch command instead of throwing them into the grindy machine thingy, whatever it is that they were gonna drop him into.
Speaker: Right. And Satine rescues Obi-Wan, and you you You mentioned the back and forth, so they have a little thin man moment here. ah For a man sworn to peace, you take an unseemly pleasure in the injuries of others.
Speaker: um For a woman sworn to non-violence, you don't seem troubled that I could have been killed back there. But you weren't, and yet I still haven't heard any thanks. Well, you certainly haven't changed much.
Speaker: We'll have to stand and fight. Or in your case, just stand.
Speaker: Beautiful. And then, after an episode where we see Ahsoka deal with a stolen lightsaber, we have to see Obi-Wan deal with the same. You can't tell me this didn't happen.
Speaker: Obi-Wan reaches for his lightsaber only to find it. It's not there. And then Cody, somewhere in the galaxy, feeling a sudden disturbance in the forest, heaving the most world-weary sigh. Not again. You have to realize that that and back in the episode two, Obi-Wan said, this weapon is your life, so his life was just stolen right then.
Speaker: But Satine is still there. I'm sorry, am I skipping ahead? ah Maybe a little bit. But we then get the reveal that Vizsla, gasp, arg, is the leader of Death Watch.
Speaker: Dun, dun, dun. Hey, he's got a cool cape. I mean, cool capes are awesome. Half capes are cool.
Speaker: And, I mean, kate a cape is how we got Billy Dee Williams in Empire Strikes Back. when va when When they reached out to him, He was kind of on the fence, like, what will it take to get you to sign on? He says, like, I want to wear a cape.
Speaker: Like, how about a lot of capes? I mean, that... Like, we give you an entire wardrobe of capes. um Then we get the introduction of a super cool lightsaber that was stolen by the Mandalorians from the Jedi Temple.
Speaker: Which is a cool detail... tale that ah not only acknowledges, again, that there were wars between the Republic and Jedi against the Mandalorians, and even explicitly mentions the time of the Old Republic, but also lends credits kind to the fact that implies that the raid on the Jedi Temple from the cinematic trailer for Star Wars The Old Republic MMORPG occurred to a degree.
Speaker: Because... That sounds pretty similar to what he's describing. a raid on the temple yeah well and they took a trophy. Yeah.
Speaker: And like, ah the Darksaber smear effects are beautiful. The what? And... a We haven't heard that name. Stop reading ahead. Okay, well, that this is my note. I know.
Speaker: i know It's on the test later. And the look reminds me of ah the the white and black lantern constructs from the video game Injustice, that that one DC fighting game.
Speaker: yeah But on a functional level, this just seems to be another lightsaber without any dexter abilities or something. I guess it's notable in that it's being wielded by a non-force user, but that seems more circumstantial than indicating any sort of ability that it might convey.
Speaker: yeah it does have a unique design, as the blade is ah traditional blade. Flat. And have it in. Aesthetically, it's cool, but mechanically, I don't really see what its deal is.
Speaker: It seems like basically a normal lightsaber for all functional purposes. Without spoiling future things for you, in this arc, really all it is is a cool-looking lightsaber.
Speaker: Alright. Um... More lore and gravitas is given to it in future storylines, both in Clone Wars and in Rebels.
Speaker: And then on to The Mandalorian. And behind the scenes factors. Originally, it was meant to be just a a regular blade that is able to deflect and withstand a lightsaber.
Speaker: ah George Lucas sort of didn't like the idea. Mm-hmm. And had it changed into the unique looking lightsaber that eventually would get more f fleshed out further on.
Speaker: All right. Yeah. So we'll get there. well We'll get there when we get there. Right. have So at that point, Obi-Wan and Satine escape.
Speaker: And she's still as resolved as ever to not be drawn into the war. And that leads us into the next episode, Voyage of Temptation, Season 2, Episode 13. My episode! Yeah!
Speaker: we're we're We're going to talk a lot here, people. This is the meat and potatoes of the arc. As the Jedi and their clones defend Duchess Satine from assassination attempts, Anakin discovers that Obi-Wan and the Duchess have a history together.
Speaker: Say what? i'm not at all kidding. Yeah, I'm not at all kidding. This is literally why I demanded to guest star on this episode. one overtake for all the episode. Also that.
Speaker: And so Satine is traveling to the Senate to testify. And Anakin and Obi-Wan start talking. I sense some anxiety from you about the Duchess.
Speaker: She couldn't be in safer hands. Yes, I know. Then why... Never mind. It's all in the past. Oh, so you're close to her. I knew her a long time ago.
Speaker: It's like poetry, it rhymes. But now the turntables are on the other foot. Gee, sure it'd be nice if these two could have an open, honest conversation about a shared conflict slash struggle that results in greater mutual understanding and respect, as well as a demonstration of Anakin to just how deeply Obi-Wan can empathize.
Speaker: It's fine. I'm fine. We're all fine here. are you? It's a boring conversation anyway. with You know, ah just ah one of the things that noticed about the whole discussion room that they were in was ah the Duchess's pillow throne of decadence.
Speaker: It's, um you know i feel like a major element of her, I don't know, maybe arc presentation in this episode gives her the sense that she's sort of above it all in a way, where ah she's not...
Speaker: It makes it feel like she's not in tune with reality, with her high position in a way. And I feel like the set dressing really emphasizes that in a way.
Speaker: And I can agree of that in that she's leading a council of neutral systems that are actively not participating in the largest galactic conflict at the in recent history.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And C is basically asking them to have a higher mortal ground by not participating while not accepting the fact that this is the greatest conflict of their time.
Speaker: by you don't By abstaining from it, you're not more moral than the others. And that kind of goes back to some of the other worlds we've seen visited, like when Anakin and Ahsoka were on the planet that the Lermans were on. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And when when Sulu was attacking the Lermans. So you you have a lot of of interplay throughout the series about, well, You two are fighting. Why do you two big groups are fighting? Why do you I have to get involved?
Speaker: I just want to stay over here and be out of it yeah and live my life. But you're trying to drag us all into it. You're trying to drag us all down with you.
Speaker: But then there's there's a nice little exchange. I thought about pulling the clip, but I didn't. But, you know, I presume you're familiar with the collection of half-truths and hyperbole known as Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Speaker: You're too kind. Yes, I am. And then just the look that Anakin gives here is just chef's kiss. Oh, honestly, just that description of Obi-Wan is chef's kiss.
Speaker: It is him. He is hey entire... and This whole episode is kind of about that. It's true. your Your father was a navigator on a... but or No, he doesn't say that, but he does say, no, Darth Vader...
Speaker: murdered your father spoiler alert about that but at this point Obi-Wan and Satine he's the greatest pilot in the galaxy yes a cunning warrior when I first met him at nine years old but Obi-Wan and Satine seem particularly snippy with one another at this point Yeah, can we just all agree that Obi-Wan has a type? Yes.
Speaker: And that type is usually blonde, talks back to him, good with verbal spiring, and doesn't usually make it to the end. Oh no, he could also go for bald chicks.
Speaker: but Eh. Eh, it's not the same. But the the get-a-roominess of these two, of Obi-Wan and Satine, is just, it's palpable.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Nick, I think, did you have anything in there? or And they were roommates, or they said get a room? do Something like that. Yeah. Something to both.
Speaker: Then you have Orinfreeta of all people jumping in like, I am so cracking dumb with these two. Do they ever stop Cripping talking? Oh my god, will you two just... Oh wait, I can't use that word. Will you will you frack already?
Speaker: Yes. Will you partake in fortification? We're going to move There we go. And honestly, I do feel like it says something that Ornfri Ta had to be the one to try to get everyone back on track with the politics.
Speaker: Yeah, how wild is that? Again, he's your savior for the food, I think. That's like having a certain senator that likes Cancun being the the one to get everybody back on track.
Speaker: Oh no. I'm sorry, did I say that out loud? And then meanwhile, down below, we have Jump Scare Droid. And Jump Scare Droid is taking out the clones down below.
Speaker: It's horror movie mode. The Fred Eye and Mixer. The Fred Eye and Mixer, you two were real ones. Does this imply that Mixer was given his name because he was making Moon Sign? Clone Moon Sign must go hard.
Speaker: Yeah, it must be. Correct to him. We cut back to Obi-Wan and Anakin talking some more. You and Satine have a history.
Speaker: An extended mission when I was younger. Master Qui-Gon and I spent a year on Mandalore, protecting the Duchess from insurgents who had threatened her world. They sent bounty hunters after us.
Speaker: We were always on the run, living hand to mouth. Never sure what the next day would bring. Sounds romantic. A civil war killed most of Satine's people, hence her aversion to violence.
Speaker: When she returned, she took on the difficult task of rebuilding her world alone. You didn't stay to help her. That would have been problematic. My duty as a Jedi demanded I be elsewhere.
Speaker: Demanded? But it's obvious you had feelings for her. Surely that would affect your decision. Oh, it did. I live by the Jedi Code. Of course. As Master Yoda says, ah Jedi must not form attachments.
Speaker: Yes. but he usually leaves out the undercurrent of remorse. Hmm. Sounds romantic. It takes one to know one, Anakin.
Speaker: I mean, getting Annie Dalla's early dating history, of course, Anakin, I don't like sand, I killed them all, Skywalker would call that romantic. Yeah. Half your people died? that That's just the first date.
Speaker: Ha ha ha! yeah no oh You know, that aside, all the rest of it, as I said earlier, you know, I'm fine. It's fine. A Jedi must not form attachments because the disaster lineage definitely doesn't feel in the attachment to each other.
Speaker: no idea what you're talking about there. yeah, we definitely have Obi-Wan's Padme slash Leia. That's, so we've we've definitely established that at this point. Well, one of his anyway.
Speaker: I meant it when I said he had a type. Satine is not the first. Gotcha. Or the last. Depends on how you look at it. Right. from From a certain point of view. Yes.
Speaker: Then Annie's reassuring a nervous R2 because this man loves his droid thing. Yep. Yep. And so we get some more action scenes with the droids downstairs. And we get a puppeteering droid.
Speaker: And it sort of like breaks apart and unleashes a bajillion Devil May Cry 3 spiders that I hate so much because you can't target them and then they explode on you and they're just the worst.
Speaker: This is literally an enemy type from Devil May Cry 3. It's terrible. I believe you. And then we get some indication that one of the senators aboard is apparently behind it.
Speaker: Okay, but like, are we just going to breeze past the part where that one droid was like weakened at Bernie's Red-Eyes course? Sure, why not? Yeah. mean, that was that was kind of weird. You're just clones. And then... You take that back!
Speaker: You know that I'm being ironic with that. we're getting Maybe so, but those are my sons. I understand. Oh, the next arc, one of the arcs you want to be a part of, we're about to start that this Thursday.
Speaker: Hey, Betsy. Oh, boy. But yeah, then I have two notes. one Which one about my sons? There are many about my sons. It involves a certain in general. No!
Speaker: yeah i am I'm fine. I'm fine. I have two notes here, and I don't really remember what the context was. I have Chain Lightning and Group Interrogation, quote, Borderline Torture.
Speaker: I don't remember why I wrote those ones down. took out the Devil May Cry Attack. took out the devil make try attack our spiders with a chain lightning attack. But right one survived, and Obi-Wan used that to try and figure out which one is, which of the senators here is the secret traitor.
Speaker: Ah, yes. Yep, he put the little spidery guy underneath the glass and like, here, I'm just gonna wave this in front of everyone's faces now that we've seen that he killed Oh, the part when he put it, when Orn-Tree-Dahl was like, ooh, an hors d'oeuvre. It's like, this might be too spicy for even your taste, Orn-Tree-Dahl. It's like...
Speaker: Orfie Todd was like, I'll take that bet. Oh, shit. It's a murder droid. remember this now, yes. Yes, there's a reason why I wrote this down. Yes. Because creative droids are cool.
Speaker: And, you yes, at this point, one of the they obviously kind of sneaky looking guy is clearly the sneekster. The villain.
Speaker: Yes. Shocking. Utterly shocking. ah Yeah, this brings me back to the thing I said earlier, because Satine's like, just because I'm a pacifist doesn't mean I won't defend myself.
Speaker: So then she very much just pretends not to know what that word means to mess with people. And by people, I think i specifically would be referring to Obi-Wan. But also the back-to-back fighting, the wordless coordination, the ongoing banter, like the Obi-Teen shippers have been well fed.
Speaker: And people like me who are just super down for good character development are also living...
Speaker: But meanwhile, they're down there, Anakin is going, all Karen on the cargo droid, who's just trying to, you know, do their job. Like, really, Anakin? Come on, what are you going to do next? Wave expired coupons at their face and demand to speak to the manager?
Speaker: Do you know who I am? i am the chosen one. oh no, not the chosen one. And we we get Anakin and Obi-Wan talking again and another quick exchange.
Speaker: Anakin asking, were you and Satine ever... I don't know how that has any bearing on the situation at hand. And Anakin gives that look again. It's like, come on you just you Use your big boy words.
Speaker: Use your big boy words, both of you. But then we get the big bombshell.
Speaker: This is Merrick. Stand by to disengage. Say farewell, Duchess. Obi-Wan, it looks like I may never see you again. I don't know quite how to say this, but I've loved you from the moment you came to my aid all those years ago.
Speaker: I don't believe this. Satine, this is hardly the time or place for...
Speaker: All right. Had you said the word, I would have left the Jedi Order.
Speaker: Obi-Wan said He. he The literal pop cultural epitome of a Jedi Knight, when do you imagine one, said that if Satine had asked, he'd have quit the Jedi Order.
Speaker: Mind-tripping-blown, that single line gives Obi-Wan Kenobi more depth than every movie. Because beneath the veneer of a model Jedi Knight is Qui-Gon Zinn's apprentice,
Speaker: who is not so different from his own conflicted padawan.
Speaker: Okay but right, like, things I have so many thoughts about. Especially thinking about, like, OBT and vis-a-vis Annie Dalla and what might have been if these idiot idiots had just expressed a genuine emotion and talked to each other?
Speaker: Like, yeah, sure, I get that Obi needed some level of plausible deniability as a council member, but you cannot tell me that the negotiator couldn't have found a way to address the banth there in a room without saying the quiet part out loud.
Speaker: in a way that even Anakin would have understood. Like, for real. Moment of silence for the good timeline, where these two had a healthy relationship, so there wasn't an empire. And Anakin was begging for that talk throughout this whole episode, basically.
Speaker: yep He was basically- Also, men will literally abandon all principles, commit genocide, slash infanticide, slash meridicide, et cetera, et cetera, and foam into a galaxy-wide fascist coup instead of going to therapy.
Speaker: Okay, but also, back to Obi-Teen. Can we talk about how the second the crisis is over, the moment he and Satine shared comes to an abrupt end, the masks come back up, and it's back to business as usual without sparing like a second to acknowledge the moment?
Speaker: Obi-Wan always talks big game about releasing emotion to the Force, like you he's mastered GFFA DBT. which we all know doesn't exist because there's no therapy in space. But I gotta to wonder, like, how much he actually releasing and how much is he just suppressing?
Speaker: Or just straight up repressing? And what if a day comes when he can't do it anymore? What would happen if he finally reached a breaking point? and Every thought and emotion and memory he's buried deep inside under mountains of missions and duty and the code refuse to stay buried any longer.
Speaker: Foreshadowing is a literary device. Okay, I'll stop. Okay. Yes. No, but you're you're both right that Anakin, see, Anakin is not oblivious.
Speaker: Well, not that oblivious. Well, what I was going to say is he's not oblivious to what's going on between Obi-Wan and Satine. And so he' he's trying to poke at that balloon a little bit to say like,
Speaker: hey, you know, it's okay because I talked about Sand and committed genocide and that got Padme hot.
Speaker: he He wants, he wants his, is basically his father figure to be like, he sees his father figure conflicted like him and feels like for a moment like, oh, maybe I could,
Speaker: I can talk with him. He's on the council. He's influential with this. And instead, Obi-Wan's like, I am going to repress these feelings completely. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm going to take every single one of these emotions and I'll put them right here into the box and they'll stay right there until I die. And thus Anakin's back to square one. It's like, and I have no one to talk about this with. He's having a Scooby-Doo, Mystery Incorporated, Freddy, why do I have to feel emotions moment? Yes.
Speaker: Basically, yeah. And things come to a head then. Interesting turnabout. But even if I do not deliver the Duchess alive to the Separatists, I still win.
Speaker: The second I'm away, I'll hit the remote and blow the coronet to bits. I will not allow that. What will you do? If you shoot me, you prove yourself a hypocrite to every pacifist ideal you hold dear.
Speaker: And you, Kenobi, you are no stranger to violence. You'd be hailed as a hero by everyone on this ship. Almost everyone.
Speaker: Come on, then. Who'll strike first and brand themselves a cold-blooded killer?
Speaker: Anakin! Anakin will prove himself a cold-blooded killer.
Speaker: But he was gonna blow up the ship! What? He was gonna blow up the ship. Yes, Anakin, the cold-blooded killer. and and And then, after doing that, he's gonna shield his eyes sheepishly as Obi-Wan and Satine talk.
Speaker: Even though he's listening the whole time? Yes. ah Because yes, this was the clip that I was like, this has to go into the episode. It has to. It has to. This clip right here, it's just so, it's just chef's kiss. Like, it's so short and it's played for laughs as much as it is for the drama, but also just- Mainly because the the bad guy is the team The bad guy is also like, hamming it up so much. Going like, oh, yeah but for most of us, he's very Green Goblin coded right here.
Speaker: You're not wrong. But like it just perfectly encapsulates the team and their relationship and like the tone of the prequels era as a whole. Like Obi-Wan is well aware of what's on the line. That it's the difference between one dude and every single person on this ship.
Speaker: But for all that Houston team butt heads, they're still on the same page when it comes to violence as a last resort or at least not being the default. Like in my mind, while he's having this emotional exchange with Satine and Faze Day Merrick, he's also doing like a whole bunch of mental math like, okay, but what are my options?
Speaker: If I try to kill him, will I even get in there in time? but Will he push the button first? Is he actually gonna push it or is he just bluffing at this point? Can I stop him without killing him? Can I really justify killing him? If I kill him, I could have solved this, but I could have solved this like another way. Then what does that say about me and what I stand for?
Speaker: What that say about what the Jedi stand for? And just going on and on down this big mental rabbit hole. And to me, that's just so quintessentially Obi-Wan Kenobi weighing the morality of his actions, both in isolation and as part of a larger picture before committing to any course of action.
Speaker: But then taking the time to do all that, he also hesitates because he's so worried about doing the right thing that sometimes he doesn't take any decisive action at all. He misses the chance to do something and the decision is made for him. Like it really calls back when when we first meet him in The Phantom Menace and Qui-Gon tells him to be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the present moment.
Speaker: And how this tendency to hesitate and overthink really proves to be Obi-Wan's fatal flaw. And then there's Anakin, who has never thought about anything and like anything every single day in his entire life.
Speaker: No thoughts, head empty. There was no hesitation in skewering Merrick the second he walked up, and there was zero remorse or consideration for how a stab-happy handling of the situation would play out, or what would happen later, because as far as he's concerned, the only future that exists is the next five seconds.
Speaker: He's like the literal antithesis of Obi-Wan and that he acts entirely on impulse all the time and only takes into consideration how something would affect him and the people he cares about in the a immediate future.
Speaker: Bigger picture be damned. And that attitude is really what just paves the way for his fall, which I also have a hell of a lot more to say about, but we're not there yet, so I'm going to table that for now. But then I feel like you could also draw a direct connection between that being the kind of person that he is and the fact that he grew up as a slave.
Speaker: Because like, it's hard to plan for more than the next five seconds when you're not sure you'll even get to see the next five seconds at all. Like I gotta imagine Shmi didn't do all that much planning for the long term throughout his childhood for very same reason.
Speaker: So for much of his foundational understanding of just how life works, that was the only way he knew and the only way he saw how to live. Like just this one scene is such a good microcosm of who these idiots are and how both of their actions led to the rise of the empire. It's so good. It is. i had i had a fun parody of the Green Goblin thing. I was going to do a pretty bad interpretation of of the Green Goblin movie.
Speaker: lyn voice, but I'm just going to a clap because that was very well thought out. Yes, yes it was. I have a lot of thoughts about these. All of the thoughts. I don't think that there's any way that any of the three of us can follow any of that about this episode.
Speaker: Nope. You got it. You got the episode. You you win episode points, Betsy. Something that is normal to do and possible to achieve. So, I'm not even going to try approach the quality of what Betsy said, and I'm just going to throw to the next episode,
Speaker: i think that's good and which is Duchess of Mandalore, season two, episode 14. On Coruscant, word reaches Duchess Satine that Death Watch is mobilizing, sparking a preemptive Republic invasion.
Speaker: On the run from Republic authorities, Satine and Obi-Wan set off to discover the group's true motives. So... The Republic wants to station an occupation force on Mandalore against Satine's wishes.
Speaker: Yes, because people love nothing more than a foreign government sending in their troops to prevent terrorism or protect democracy. It always goes super well when governments do that. And I'm sure in no time the Republic will be able to say, mission accomplished.
Speaker: Oh, wait, am I allowed to get political on here? know, you guys really need to give me some rules if I'm supposed to have any sort thing. mean... It is Star Wars. The wars are political. and
Speaker: And yeah we're talking about Star Wars that was created as Lucas's critique of the Vietnam conflict. Yes. right yes and That's what we'll call it.
Speaker: So um we then have a a meeting between Satine and Obi-Wan on a platform after ah things go horribly wrong in the Senate.
Speaker: I just heard what happened in the Senate. You're sweet to be concerned, but I promise I'll be alright. I am concerned. We're friends, are we not? Yes.
Speaker: Friends and nothing more. Satine, as your friend, I don't think you should make any decisions in this state of mind. This state of mind? And what state of mind would that be precisely?
Speaker: What I'm saying is any person would be hysterical by now, but... Hysterical? The Republic is attempting to force its will upon innocent people. I only meant that... Frankly, I'm surprised you're not hysterical.
Speaker: Perhaps if more citizens got hysterical, they'd be more inclined to speak up when the Republic tramples on their rights. Rushing in like this, it's... it's foolhardy. Ironic words from a man who spends his days running hither and yon, wielding his lightsaber with deadly force as if on a crusade.
Speaker: Why should I listen to someone who so frequently relies on violence? In my opinion, you're the one who's foolhardy. Turn down for what? You wouldn't me put it in, so I'm just saying it out loud. will say that something just noticed right now was that this is actually a callback to...
Speaker: To Obi-Wan talking with Luke back in A New Hope, where he says, your uncle was afraid that he'd follow me on some foolhardy crusade.
Speaker: Hmm. Well, and part of part of why, Betsy, I pulled the full clip instead of the meme clip is, as I was watching to pull the clip for you, I was struck by how timely this exchange is yeah honestly though it is so uh yeah we we won't get too deep off into that but uh but yeah that it's very timely for right now as we are recording this in late february of 2025 but there's also a lot to say about
Speaker: how Obi-Wan is approaching this from the point of view of a Jedi Knight, even though he approached initially as a friend, also friendzoning her. Rude.
Speaker: The friendzone's not real, guys. That's not a thing. It is not. No matter how much we might like to salve our feelings by saying it is, it is not. There is no such thing as the friendzone.
Speaker: But anyway, moving on from that. I have one quote here that says, it's two quotes. It's words of an idealist. No, words of a pacifist. I don't remember when exactly this gets said, but it resonated with me.
Speaker: Yeah, I can i can totally say. And that goes hand in hand, too. yeah good that' That's a pretty timely statement, too. Honestly, though. The idea is like, When is neither are opposed to each other?
Speaker: Yes. So you can be idealistic about pacifism, but they don't have to be diametrically opposed. Yes. To do so is to is to sort of separate the the idea like such a thing as pacifism cannot be an ideal to strive for.
Speaker: So Satine meets a contact who gives her the full unedited recording of the message that by being very edited and carefully edited, spurred the Republic to station a force on Mandalore.
Speaker: Then an assassin shoots that contact and Satine appears to be the shooter to the authorities. Just, you know, ignore the sniper shots fired at her during the chase. I'm sure that was totally unrelated and definitely not evidence of somebody else shooting people. And Sabine is framed for the sniper actions.
Speaker: um he I mean, I suppose, I suppose a, uh... it's a teen. Yeah, you don't know Sabine yet. But you put Sabine in the notes. Sorry, i put I guess I spelled her name wrong. Ha! See?
Speaker: you You tried the same trick I did earlier of making sure that we were paying attention to the notes, and we did. Yeah. Um... B-Bile on my brain, I'm like, wait, what's she doing here? Wrong letter! that's ah That's supposed to be a T, not a B. And, I mean, a case could be made, I suppose, for, oh, those are other, you Coruscant cops that are taking the shots, but... Um...
Speaker: Well, they're a little trigger happy since, you know, they're almost hitting civilians and also the cops that are chasing her seem just as confused by them. This is a government that is already being influenced by Palpatine.
Speaker: Yeah, you're not wrong. think this one of the first episodes actually get to- are we getting all really political again? Oh I think this is one of the first episodes we do get to see, like, actual Palpatine propaganda on on the view screens. Mm-hmm. And- I mean, you know, did did he rename Monument Plaza Coruscant Plaza? Hmm.
Speaker: Okay, that's a bit on the nose. It's a bit on the nose. Don't worry we're not quite at the Palpatine Laughing Channel yet. But speaking speaking of Monument Plaza, Satine arranges for Obi-Wan to meet her there and pass on the recording. So I just love how Clone Wars and even more so later on Rebels, which you'll get.
Speaker: I'm looking forward to you seeing Rebels, Lauren, because I've wanted an excuse to rewatch Rebels for a while. Oh, boy. But I love how both of them make use of a lot of unused Ralph McQuarrie concept art, including this whole Monument Plaza.
Speaker: Monument Plaza in general is just cool because it's the one part of Coruscant that says it's the tallest mountain on Coruscant. So it's actually one of the few natural places so on the city planet.
Speaker: Nice. You can touch it. Well, not according to Mandalorian. No, no, can't. That's illegal. Just the thing's going come up and yell at you, but you can still touch it. It is physically possible.
Speaker: But like that that's the only time that a person specifically on like the surface can touch the planet they're on. And so yes, we get a moment Obi-Wan, I need your help.
Speaker: You know, as as all the good Star Wars dick characters do. Right. and Help me, Obi-Wan! And Padme plays the unedited recording for the Senate And that reverses the Republic's decision, which that's where the fiction, that's where the science fiction comes in.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. That's where the science fantasy comes in. Yes. honestly the user right That's the right term. Although very timely if you consider everything else with, you know, AI deepfakes and all that. Yeah. yeah Wow. A lot of stuff is very timely.
Speaker: Wait, so when are the when is the guys in cool armor going to start shooting at us? That's already happening. Oh, no. and Any minute now. Any minute. No, like, that's already happening. It's just, you know, they're not as cool as these are. Well, i mean, I'm saying specifically at us.
Speaker: The four of us. Yeah, it's already happening. Yeah, it could happen to me at any time. Am I not supposed to say that out loud? That's true. Do they have jetpack? Already happened! But Padme and Palpatine and Obi-Wan and And a bunch of other senators are, yeah they they have their dialogue to close out the the episode and Satine comes into the room. Can we talk about Obi-Wan's little smile the second Satine walks into the room? They purposefully took the time to like, hey, look at him smile.
Speaker: And and we we've all been there. right True factx facts. yeah we've We've all been there. Certain someone walks into the room and you can't help but smile.
Speaker: and that you know You usually haven't gone on three life and death adventures of three episodes when it happens. Is it over the course of maybe three or four days at most?
Speaker: Yeah, probably. It depends on how long they were on on the ship heading to Coruscant because, you know as we all know, hyperspace moves at the speed of plot. Of course. Of course.
Speaker: It's rather very busy, busy week or so for the Dutch. But I mean, you, you are right in that it does have to be a pretty compressed a timeline because these seven seasons of Clone Wars only cover three years for the Star Wars galaxy.
Speaker: Yep. So yeah, I guess so looking back on these three episodes as a whole, I noticed how you know all of y'all had very deep analysis about each of the episodes, and most of my notes were really just more recaps rather than in-depth analysis.
Speaker: And so that's why at at the end here, I guess I just want to note that one of the major strengths of Star Wars as a franchise is definitely the fact that there is a lot of it. There are many reasons that one might be interested in the series.
Speaker: ah There's a lot of things to like about it. and Now, as someone whose favorite video game series are, as previously noted in other episodes, Kirby, Sonic, and Mega Man, I can say that the elements that I appreciate the most are the cool aliens and robots present throughout the franchise. so Very, very much of the the science-y bits.
Speaker: However, the Mandalorians are not substantially correlated with cool aliens or robots. They're primarily humans who have a high emphasis with military force and political intrigue.
Speaker: And I understand these elements are core to a lot of people's enjoyment of the franchise. It is Star Wars, after all. However, these elements have generally been more secondary elements to my appreciation.
Speaker: As such, I don't feel like I've had as much to say about this part of the series as I did say about the cool alien robot man, General Grievous, even though it's clear that a lot of people care a great deal about The Mandalorians, the writers included, for a number of reasons.
Speaker: They just don't really touch upon the elements of the franchise that strongly resonate with me. You know what I mean? Karen Travis wants to know your location. Yes, exactly. She will hunt you down and she will kill you.
Speaker: She's preparing a drone strike right now. Well, yeah she'll have to... You are worse than the Taliban. have to have a higher bullet density than rain to hit me.
Speaker: But it's that's also a great way to... And I appreciate you expressing that opinion. It's like... A lot of people, like, Mandalorians are basically their own sort of unique subset of fans that are just obsessed with them.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, I could definitely get that impression. Yeah, there there are there are segments among the fan base that say, like, oh, hey, Mandalorian's cool.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. There's a segment of the fan base that says, I'm so tired of Mandalorian. I get the sense that I might end up in that part of the fandom as time goes on. oh yeah and then there's a segment of the fan base that says the Mandalorians are the only thing that matters.
Speaker: As an acquaintance of ours, ah GM Chris from the Order 66 podcast is fond of saying, The Mandalorian, he's tired of the Mandalorians because of of what they have turned into in that segment of the fandom's mindset.
Speaker: He enjoys the show The Mandalorian, but the the way I put it is there are hardcore fans of The Mandalorians who like The Mandalorians as a Star Wars skinned Chuck Norris character.
Speaker: Yeah, I definitely got that impression out of them. they It also feels like they appeal very much to like the though war side, the like strategic military element of the fandom as well.
Speaker: And that's just but's just not the part of the series that resonates with me. Speaking of you that view of the Mandalorians as you the Chuck Norris memes, that's kind of coming from... I'm going to say it so she can target me too.
Speaker: that That comes from the whole Karen Travis application of the Mandalorians in the books. ah you Her view of the Mandalorians are...
Speaker: the Mandalorians are the Mandalorianist Mandalorians that ever Mandalored. And so, and so that they're smarter and faster and stronger than the Jedi, because I saw yeah much so that the clones who are cloned.
Speaker: And in her opinion, Django effect was a Mandalorian. So clone from Mandalorians are, are not individual people of their own sort of like trying to find their way in the galaxy. No, no, there's just Mandalorians.
Speaker: Except for the ones that aren't. Except for the ones that aren't. And they aren't not as cool as the ones that accept that they're Mandalorians. Yeah. So I can see where the where the people who are like, I am so tired of the Mandalorians are coming from. Because...
Speaker: I personally don't care for the Chuck Norris meme approach to the Mandalorians. I'm, I am fine with the warrior culture.
Speaker: I am fine with them being proficient. It's when, know, this is another GM Chris line, you know, a Mandalorian once killed a Jedi by spitting at him, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Also, we already have Chuck Norris in Star Wars and his name is Kyle Katarn. And it was funny. But the main thing from your... But I think the best part of your... Is that you understand the major strength of Star Wars.
Speaker: Yes. It is a franchise where... Yeah. There are people who just like the Mandalorians. There are people who are like really into the Jedi. Into the Separatists.
Speaker: Into the Clones. into the clone into weird robots and freaky aliens and cool monsters and spaceships. like And the underworld and stuff like that, which we'll get into, like bounty hunters, prime lords. Star Wars is such a large mythology that you can just find your little your little guy that you like. and
Speaker: And without going into too much spoiler territory, because it's still a ways down the road for you, that whole dichotomy of the uber-rigid Mandalorian Chuck Norris view versus a more balanced view of Mandalorians, a more balanced presentation, is part of the actual storyline of Mandalorian...
Speaker: it starts in season two, but it really hits in season three because there, there's a whole dichotomy of, of a very rigid, of what's the word that I, there's a word that I'm looking for and it was just in my head and it flew out of my head as me as quickly as it went in.
Speaker: i zelaus Yeah. There's a, there's a very zealous, rigid, um a group of mandalorians that are you know that without putting it this way in story they strive to be the chuck norris meme and then there's a more balanced group that are a martial group still but they don't adhere to all of that dogma
Speaker: Yeah. And then... There's also the Mandalorians presented here as a culture that is trying to reject that warrior past. Because look what it did to them.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I just know that in a coming a series of episodes that are allegedly focused on Ahsoka, on Mandalore, I'm definitely going to be coming back to this point later.
Speaker: Yeah. and that's That's totally fine. you know i will say this, and probably a great way to examine... Think of these arcs as incomplete for Mandalore, especially in Clone Wars.
Speaker: Oh, I know they're incomplete, alright. They are. They build upon each other in a surprising way. think way That will resolve for the Clone Wars era.
Speaker: who Then we'll get like And then probably once we get to like The Mandalorian Season 3, you'll see how kind of it all sort of built to this.
Speaker: But it's definitely, you're going to see it in small glimpses. Like see like how these time periods period start and end. And how it's building towards something more.
Speaker: And just a behind-the-scenes musing that just occurred to me. So we heard Filoni say earlier that Lucas was dead set on flipping the audience's expectation of Mandalorians and having Mandalore be a pacifist.
Speaker: society i wonder how much of that might have been influenced by him wanting to say the mandalorians are not the klingons he wanted to separate the mandalorians from star trek's klingons because by the time of this we had had since let's see star trek next generation debuted in 87.
Speaker: So we'd had, you know, 20 some years of... Proud warrior waste race guy. Yeah, proud... Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker: And so... it's i can I can see Lucas wanting to say, you know what? Star Trek has done that. Let's do something a little different over here so that we're not accused of copying the Klingons.
Speaker: Yeah, that makes sense. that That's possible. And then as time has gone on, Favreau and Filoni, separately and together,
Speaker: have been cherry-picking elements of what is now the Legends continuity and dovetailing it in with what we see in Clone Wars and making a fuller picture of Mandalorian so that we we're not quite there yet.
Speaker: But the Mandalorians may be one of the species in Star Wars, one of the races in Star Wars, that has transcended the most the whole planet of hats idea in that they're not Mandalorians.
Speaker: these dogmatic, zealous warriors. you have You have pacifists. You have some that are warriors and don't follow the dogma.
Speaker: You have a variety. Whereas in and this isn't exclusive to Star Wars by any means, yeah in most science fiction, science fantasy, the first representative of an alien species that you see, boom, that's what the entire species is.
Speaker: Yeah, it's pretty standard trope. yeah you know And, you know, the entire planet looks like this, everyone acts like this, thinks like this, etc., etc., because it's easy. Different biomes don't exist on planets.
Speaker: It's a shorthand. Exactly. But, yeah, it I feel that... And, again, just to go back again, I do appreciate you sharing with us instead about the strengths.
Speaker: And... the And yes, we had a lot more to say because we've been in this sphere of this franchise for a long time.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. It's clear that we're passionate about it. What do you mean? I had nothing to say. Why are you even in this episode? We could probably continue this conversation well into the night.
Speaker: Yes. But I feel that we've said our say of these ah the episodes and and maybe one day you will find... if not Mandalore and its people, a Mandalorian that you like.
Speaker: Perhaps so. Right. Hopefully so. I mean, there is an entire show of one, so I would hope that at least that one could possibly resonate. Honestly, Lauren, knowing you, i think I have an idea of which Mandalorian you might like.
Speaker: I have a pretty clear pick too. I have quite clear have a pretty good idea. I have a decent idea and are we all thinking of... of Probably. Are we all thinking of the one voiced by someone from a different franchise?
Speaker: yeah That is also one of the stars. Yes. Oh my, that yeah there is a Lauren-coded Mandalorian out there, huh? There is a Lauren-coded Mandalorian. Very much so. A Mandalorian-an.
Speaker: Hey! And see, now now we can't top that either. yeah i think yeah I think we should quit before but yep we're we're ahead ahead. Yep, let's quit while we're ahead. so right ah We want to thank everyone once again for joining us. We hope that you will join us next time as we dive into more of Lauren's first experience with Clone Wars.
Speaker: Notice that after Lauren's closing, I did not ask the usual question. So what do you think of of your journey through Clone Wars so far? Because I have the answer already. Yes. He stole your job. Yeah, yeah did oh no no any of you So we're being all timely again. oh wait. and And if you want to fall...
Speaker: Follow along with us. We're following along in chronological order. You may not groan. darrelll Yeah. ah Nick is evil. And we will but we have have that link below the if ah chronological or order so you can follow along with us.
Speaker: yep but Thank you once again for choosing to spend time listening to us ramble about Clone Wars. We hope you'll be back next time. And until then,
Speaker: Once again, i have been Daryl. I've been Lauren. I'm Nick. And I'm Betsy. And Betsy's our favorite. Yay. Yeah. but Are we free? And you all get to live another day because you let me come in. Yeah. yeah nick were you Nick, we're going fire you and bring Betsy in full time. Oh, no.
Speaker: pass Is that why the bomb collar is not coming off? Yes. Oh, it never came off in the first place. Anyway, thank you all, and we'll see you next time on Casual Nerdity.
Speaker: Bye! Bye! This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.
