In Memoriam, aka, 2026 Can Go F**k Itself

Transcript

Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.

Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker: Then it's time for your last chance question. Name the remake of the groundbreaking horror movie in which the villain... Halloween! Texas Chainsaw, Dawn of the Dead, The Hills Have Eyes, Amityville Horror, Last House on the Left, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, My Bloody Valentine, When A Stranger Calls, Prom Night, Black Christmas, House of West, The Fog, Piranha... It's one of those, right?

Speaker: Right?

Speaker: I got it right. I was fucking right. Ta-da!

Speaker: Oh, you don't like it. well Well, I did what you asked me, didn't yes you? Oh, yes, Truby. You did a beautiful job. What's the same? Oh, sweetheart, don't. Please don't cry, or I will too. i have a strict policy that nobody cries alone in my presence.

Speaker: Don't. Dream.

Speaker: Fate has yielded its reward. A new world to call home. We live among its people now, hiding in plain sight, but watching over them in secret.

Speaker: Waiting. Protecting. I have witnessed their capacity for courage. And though we are worlds apart, like us, there's more to them than meets the eye.

Speaker: Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everybody. We're starting things off a little differently this time. ah ah But I'm Daryl. I'm Nick.

Speaker: I'm Betsy. And you wear we're taking a break from the normal things. We did an episode like this last year, but... um yeah There are certain people whose work becomes part of the fabric of our lives. Sometimes we grow up watching them. Sometimes we discover them later.

Speaker: And sometimes we don't even realize how much they've been a part of our lives until they're gone. And recently, the world of entertainment lost four extraordinary talents. Hayden Panettiere, Dolly Parton, Tim Curry, and Peter Cullen.

Speaker: All in really short succession. they couldn't have been more different in the careers they built or the audiences they reached. Hayden Panettiere became a familiar face to a generation of television and genre fans with roles that showed a remarkable range from heroes to Nashville.

Speaker: Dolly Parton transcended virtually every category you could put her in. Singer, songwriter, actress, author, philanthropist, and cultural icon.

Speaker: She built a career defined not only by extraordinary talent, but by generosity, humor, and an unmistakable ability to connect with people.

Speaker: Tim Curry was one of those performers who could walk into virtually any story and make it unforgettable. Whether he was playing Dr. Frankenfurter, Pennywise, a villain, a hero, or lending and voice his voice to one of countless animated characters in games, there was simply nobody quite like Tim Curry.

Speaker: And Peter Cullen gave generations of fans one of the most recognizable voices in popular culture. As Optimus Prime, he didn't just voice a character. He helped define that what that character meant.

Speaker: His voice became synonymous with leadership, courage, compassion, and the belief that there's always a better way. Four people, four very different careers, but all four understood something fundamental about entertainment.

Speaker: The things we create can become part of someone one else's life in ways you'll never fully know. So today on Casual Nerdity, we're going to spend the entire episode remembering them, looking back at their careers, the characters and performances that made them special, the moments that stayed with us, and the legacies they leave behind.

Speaker: This isn't simply an episode about four people who've passed away. It's an episode about four people who gave us something worth remembering. But it's also an episode about a fifth person who barely started to make an impact and didn't have a chance to build the sort of legacy the other four did.

Speaker: Kaylee Hoddle was just starting her career and was an inspiration for deaf actors with her role as Gia in Godzilla vs. Kong and Godzilla X Kong The New Empire.

Speaker: And she was incredibly young and went well. suddenly it it It was a a car accident.

Speaker: like but Yes. but And you know she didn't have a chance to cast the Sword of Shadow and build the Sword of Legend that the other four did.

Speaker: But she was staking a claim to her position in pop culture. One that that will it it will still remain an inspiration as being a deaf actress in a prominent deaf role in a major motion picture.

Speaker: And yeah outside her acting, um she was a student at the Texas School for the Deaf, where she was part of the track team. And she actually set a school record for the 300 meter hurdles, which is pretty cool.

Speaker: And competed in a championship in 2025. Oh, and she placed second in a debate competition Gulladay University. So, you know, even outside of acting, she was doing some amazing things.

Speaker: Yep. She was on on a road. to And again, so he was already advocating for actors and actresses like herself that are in the deaf community to play roles specifically tailored to that.

Speaker: Yeah, which is especially meaningful, I think, because, you know, she comes from like a multi-generational deaf family. Like, this is something that's very close to home for her and always has been. And again, he played, he was not a bit part in the, in as a longtime fan of Godzilla and King Kong monster movies. it's She was a standout character and sort of the heart of those movies.

Speaker: Yeah, and I thought it was really cool. Like, you know, she, as that character, kind of embodied the idea what you hear for a lot of groups, which is nothing about us without us. Where, you know, instead just picking any person, they actually picked someone who was deaf to play that role.

Speaker: Like that. I can only imagine how that feels for the community and the fact that she advocated for more people like her to get roles like that.

Speaker: And that she was able to do that just literally by being herself.

Speaker: I can only imagine how many people she's inspired and how many are mourning her even now. But I hope that they took that inspiration information and will keep going forward and seeing that she proved that, yes, it there is a place for them.

Speaker: Yep, it it it really, really sucks when we have to do an episode like this. you know that The one that we did last year, we did for one of my favorite writers, Peter David. And this one,

Speaker: it was just it's right there in the in the title of the episode. ah we It's called Immemorium, a.k.a. 2026 Can Go Fuck itself Very accurate.

Speaker: Because this was... Because

Speaker: we we got several just big whammies by the Grim Reaper all within like a week and a half.

Speaker: Yeah. it was... Every time I turned around, you know, i to to add a little levity to the subject... i am I'm kind of at the stage where, as I'm scrolling through social media, you know the the book of faces or threads or whatever, if I see a post that has a big picture of a celebrity's face in it, i was like, oh my god, not them.

Speaker: No, Nick did that to me when he posted something in Discord. I forget what it was, but I was like, oh my god, who died now? i TV Line did a story about Carol Burnett.

Speaker: Yeah. and That would have terrified me. it did i was like Like, not again. That was exactly my reaction. because this I believe that trend there was a bit of a trend on social media saying, like we cannot talk about celebrities right now.

Speaker: Yeah. That is a yeah bad thing. and and At this point, I'm hoping when I see a name, it's just that they got canceled for something. At least then they're still alive.

Speaker: Yes. Yes. Like, goddammit. Let them just be a trash human being. Because then they can do better and come back. really Well, not all of them.

Speaker: They can. They have capacity to. They just have to choose to. is Right. it but it was like It was like everyone said, stop posting people's faces ah on social media. it's you You're invoking a curse now.

Speaker: Yeah, the the first hit that we got was, if we're being, ah ah well, I'm going to say, you know, if we're being honest, but i just because of all of the factors involved, it was probably the most surprising.

Speaker: And that was Hayden Panettiere. Yes. Wait, save the cheerleader, the world. Things that will live in my head rent-free until the end of time.

Speaker: Yes. um i i well it Go ahead, Nick. I'll just say that they i didn't the biggest and the most shock for me was how young she was. 36. Yep.

Speaker: I am a couple of months from becoming 33. didn't

Speaker: i didn't I'd grown up with like, if like, uh, saving Alabama and, uh, was in one of the, uh, spinoffs from, from, uh, from, from like, uh, that cheerleader movie series. And, and of course, bring it on heroes, bring it on and heroes.

Speaker: Like, I didn't know that she's literally like practically three years older than me. She's been in media since I was a kid. Well, and my wife Stephanie was going to join us tonight, but she's feeling under the weather. So she put together some thoughts for ah for some of these. And so I'll go ahead and I'll just read out her thoughts and then we can dive into what we have to say.

Speaker: ah So starting off, she said, okay, Hayden Panettiere. For me, she will always be Claire Bennett from Heroes First. Save the cheerleaders, save the world.

Speaker: Come on, if you were watching TV in the mid 2000s, you'd know. i loved Claire because Hayden managed to make her feel like an actual teenage girl who just happened to discover she was basically indestructible.

Speaker: She could be scared, stubborn, pissed off, vulnerable and incredibly brave, sometimes all within the same episode. And considering she spent a significant amount of time throwing herself off buildings and waking up on autopsy tables, Claire handled adolescence remarkably well.

Speaker: Then there was Amanda Knox. Murder on trial in Italy, which was such a different role for her. Whatever you think about the real case itself, Hayden's performance showed me that she had a lot more range than I think people gave her credit for.

Speaker: There was no superpower, no genre spectacle. She had to carry a much more serious, complicated story, and she did. And then, of course, she joined Scream as Kirby Reed. And I love Kirby.

Speaker: Smart, sarcastic, horror-obsessed, slightly chaotic, so obviously I'm gonna like her. Kirby could easily have been another disposable character in a horror franchise, but Hayden gave her enough personality that people remembered her, loved her, and wanted her back.

Speaker: And when she finally did come back years later, she still felt like Kirby, just older and carrying everything that had happened to her. I think that's what I've always liked about Hayden Panettiere.

Speaker: Whether she's playing a cheerleader who can't die, a woman at the center of an international media circus, or a horror nerd trying desperately not to get stabbed, there's always something incredibly watchable about her.

Speaker: And seriously, save the cheerleader, save the world. That line will apparently live rent-free in my Gen X-adjacent nerd brain forever. Well said.

Speaker: Yeah, and I have bad news for Stephanie. She's not in a Gen X adjacent. She's part of Gen X. Just like... She is. it's like But again, she is not incorrect. like There's an entire generation that grew up with heroes, especially the first season, and that iconic line was everywhere.

Speaker: I don't know what you mean by first season. There was only one season, and and then the series ended. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with that, honestly. There was only one season.

Speaker: Because that was when they had all the writer strike happen. But that's another discussion. We we we could go with... Maybe we should do an episode about heroes one of these days. Yeah. willing That was not the place to, you know, debate the merits of different seasons of heroes.

Speaker: but But, yeah, i mean we I mean... There's one thing that I'd say that even is consistent across the seasons. It was... Aiden Pantheir's portrayal of but of the character, Claire Bennett, always a highlight.

Speaker: Yep, very much so. And it was... It was one of those... you know Maybe it was... I don't know. i i don't want to say maybe it was the cheerleader uniform because that sounds like I'm being icky.

Speaker: But... the Her look was the iconic look for the show. oh it was the iconic image for the show because everybody else was in street clothes.

Speaker: So that again like the cheerleader outfit stood out. Her introduction in the series is her jumping off of wearing her uniform.

Speaker: And that's yeah was prominently in in the promos. so like Yeah. And it's like the just a juxtaposition of seeing her in a high school cheerleading outfit that you know is reminiscent of bringing on a fun, silly comedy about cheerleaders, except she's you know covered in blood and like cracking her bones back into place. and I even loved her initial lines like, my name is Claire Bennett, and that's attempt number six.

Speaker: Yeah. It's like says so much about the character in just a single line. And what I like so much about Claire was the way that it meshed like, you know, the bigger things of the series with like world ending stuff and a serial killer stealing people's brains and, you know, all this other shit going on with genetics and her just, you know, being a high schooler experiencing high school things like I don't know, her mean girlfriend on the cheerleading squad, getting nominated for homecoming queen, um trying to, you know, fit in when she moved to a new school. It's, like, all these mundane, like, typical things that are against the backdrop of, like, all this other shit going on. Like,

Speaker: She's literally just having a regular teenage argument with her mom and she drops something in and at Garver's disposal and she just reaches right into it.

Speaker: Or like, the thing that will always stick with me that like, still, I can't get out of my brain is when she was at that bonfire and that guy tried to rape her and she picks on the autopsy table.

Speaker: I just, it's like, she could have been the source of another one of those like, horrifying stories as you know like the cheerleader who was found dead because of this that the other and you know probably got blamed for whatever happened to her anyway but no she came back just fine and actually like kind of got her of revenge in away in a way a way yeah Yep, it it has been a long time since I have watched Heroes, and may be due for we rewatch, and like I said, we should do an episode about it. And I i feel confident in saying that that image as the the cheerleader, the high school student, is what got her into the Scream franchise, and what got her into Scream 4.

Speaker: and Ironically, I feel like it's sort of like a chain. Her and Bring It On got her the cheerleader and the cheerleader getting bloodied up all the time got her to scream i could i could swear her bring it on movie was after heroes because i think i thought i remember remembered commenting or remarking that they were playing up the imagery of her in the cheerleader uniform because of heroes

Speaker: Honestly, I have to look that up. I don't know. Somebody Google that. Hero Season 1 came out in September 2006. 2006 is also when Bring It On All or Nothing, which stars Hayden Pantier, came out.

Speaker: So they would have been in production roughly one right after the other. oh quite clearly. Bring It On would have been in production first as a movie, but...

Speaker: August 8th was when it was released. Heroes Season 1, Episode 1, Genesis came out in on September 25th. There you go. Back to back. That's synergy.

Speaker: Yep. It was more synergy. that But they again, people would have seen her as cheerleader. But when I also like think about you know those roles for her, specifically her role as Claire in Heroes... is that there's a lot of comparisons I feel like you could make between like that character and a lot of like what Hayden Panettiere's lived experiences were.

Speaker: She's a star that's been in like all these things, several of which make her a cheerleader or you know a country singer, and you know has like all these great things going for her. But at the same time, like you know she spent years struggling with her mental health, with addiction, with postpartum depression with so many things. You know, again, it's the backdrop of, or it's like the, you know, glitzy celebrity life against the backdrop of everything that's actually happening to her.

Speaker: Right. and And she's also ah veteran of of Disney. She was even a voice actress at the beginning. She was in The Bugs Life as a as the young princess. in Her name is Dot. And and she was ah she was in Tiger Crew.

Speaker: She was the main character. The artist. I forgot Tiger Cruz.

Speaker: i I'm old. I don't even know what that is. It's a decom. Disney Channel original movie. It was when Disney was doing their whole 9-11 shtick. There was a really big like Disney Channel nine eleven thing going on. But this was the one that was like the nine eleven Disney Channel movie. It's surreal. It's surreal.

Speaker: There's a whole thing involving an ice cream machine. Okay. They're on an aircraft carrier while it happens. and They go to Pearl Harbor and 9-11 happens while they're on the boat.

Speaker: Wow. And Hayden Manitier's character is like super mad at her dad because he's never home because like he's in the Navy, i think. Is it the Navy? yeah I don't remember. Yeah, it's the Navy. It's because they're on an aircraft carrier. I think it's like the the Jimmy Carter. They're on an actual aircraft carrier.

Speaker: Yeah. And then at the end of the movie, after 9-11, she's like, no, you should definitely go back and do another tour of duty because nine eleven just happened. That sounds very much like a fever dream.

Speaker: Oh, it is. It is a fever dream. And the whole thing was like her sister and her mom convincing her to go on this tiger cruise to begin with. Oh, and she's, she brings a sketchbook and is drawing all kinds of things, including, you know, her like magnum opus, which is this portrait of her father.

Speaker: Gotcha. and For a while, every September, this was the DCOM that played. it It sounds like a fever dream that part of me wants to see, and part of me is like, I must stay away from this. Oh, I recommend seeing it because otherwise it it is a piece of very bizarre piece of, like, decom history.

Speaker: And yet, Peyton Benetier brings a lot to that role. Like, there's a lot of Pellos in her character, which is insane for a decom. ah she did not have to go that hard. But it is a nuanced character. She is like, i I'm frustrated about the concept that my father is not around.

Speaker: But it's not about selfishness. It's about like her understanding. She comes to understand and respect his duty. But like it's also propaganda in a way. It's ah it's a complicated film.

Speaker: But she brings a lot of her character. It feels real in the situation. Yeah. but It's like, I mean, it has some icky implications, but, you know, I think that's what I was watching it for.

Speaker: But you can understand the character very well, and, like, they go through multiple emotions, and they feel real. Yeah, see, I...

Speaker: I know none of that, but i one of the things that I was thinking today is I was just kind of mentally tossing ideas around in my head for while we were talking is Scream 4, I did like that as the franchise is prone to do, they flipped expectations on their head because the way she was introduced in the movie

Speaker: you're You're looking at all of the the high school character archetypes in it and like, oh, she's going to be the mean girl. or like, you know, it be the clip that you had with the phone call, it's like, oh yeah, she's your Barrymore's character. She's doing the same thing.

Speaker: Well, that's near the end. But even then, it's like you're hitting all these beats and yet none of them are like in the same context. yeah Or the same way. yeah think You think she's going to be the snobby mean girl and you she she's hanging out with the movie nerds and she's a movie nerd herself.

Speaker: and But she's still one of the popular kids. And it's like we're we' are just blasting tropes out of the water with this character. And she made it.

Speaker: She sold it. you did. it you you like in in other In other hands, a character like that could be just wearing all of the subversion of tropes on their sleeve. Like, look, now I am going to play against your expectations and do this.

Speaker: But Kirby felt like an actual character. Yeah, like she subversive expectations by being, you know, what you would think of as a real person. Yeah. Instead of a collection of tropes, which is, again, what Scream has always been working against. It's like, we're going to take the tropes, we're going to subvert them. In this case, they took a trope character, your classical, cool pretty blonde mean girl, and made her into nuanced character.

Speaker: Because like that's, again, also a big part of Scream as a franchise. Like, you know, deconstructing all these tropes around horror movies. But even like from the beginning, there was still kind of the archetypal characters. And, you know, this just further threw that completely out the window.

Speaker: It's like further on in the franchise, more and more things get deconstructed. Yeah. Again, you needed to you needed to make fun of the initial parts by playing into them and then subverting them, then further deconstructing them.

Speaker: And then when they brought her back in six, they made a point of playing into the idea. Oh, look, we brought Kirby back. Kirby has trauma. We didn't see her in five.

Speaker: So maybe she's the killer. and you spoiler alert, she wasn't. I mean, it's been a long enough. I think you're fine.

Speaker: I know, but but i kind I kind of would have liked it, though. i could have. Maybe it's because I just was falling from all the red herrings. No, communism is red herring.

Speaker: I mean, i this is true I kind of would have would have liked it, but i I would have liked it even more. a Spoiler alert again, although we we spoiled it when we talked about the whole franchise months and months ago.

Speaker: i would exactly even I would have liked it even better in 7 if Gale had been the killer.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. Ooh. I hadn't thought of that. That would be good. i mean, they were set they were setting you up to think she was, but... Yeah, but like if they'd actually followed through on that.

Speaker: Yeah. The whole time I was thinking like, nah, they're not going to do that because, you know, it'd be too on the nose. yeah Too obvious. but But again, we're not talking about the whole Scream franchise. And i I was disappointed that they didn't bring Kirby back in Seven.

Speaker: I was too, like, I think she would have added the added something that I think that was missing from our core bunch of characters in that movie. Yeah, I mean, give given the structure of Seven and what the story was, you know, I i don't see... I ultimately like it, but I was like i feel like, yeah, there's a Kirby-shaped hole here.

Speaker: There's a Kirby-shaped hole because... you're You're bringing back the legacy characters. You're doing a who's who of characters in the franchise. Yeah, you're doing a who's who of characters, and you have Sydney convinced that Stu is still alive, and she's not calling the survivor of a previous murder who's an FBI agent now?

Speaker: Who's also a horror nerd on scale of Stu? Yeah. On scale of Stu and the dear departed Randy? and Honestly, it brought my initial theory when I first heard Stu was coming back, it's like, okay, maybe now it's actually Kirby.

Speaker: But again, we're not litigating the Scream franchise. but Yeah, that's a weird thing for me. Can't do it. I do wish that she had been in seven. And if they do in eight, maybe the... Well, duh. God, that's a stupid thing to say. Never mind.

Speaker: ah No, know what you're going to say, but like there's probably a way to like pay homage to her character, you know? Like in a way that's tasteful. Yeah, absolutely. I mean...

Speaker: I liked that the the franchise played in 5, they played with the whole fan fan-developed Kirby Lives movement, because which all springs from the fact that somebody swears they saw her still moving on the stretcher at the end of the movie.

Speaker: And so in 5, there was somebody's looking at YouTube videos about the Stab movies. And on the suggested videos panel over to the right, one of them is an interview with Woodsboro survivor Kirby Reed.

Speaker: And then they, what, what the next step and brought her back in six. And so, yeah, I, I think that there's a way to do it. Um,

Speaker: Or perhaps the most respectful thing to do is to just let Kirby be off having a happily ever after somewhere. Yeah. And just never never bring her up again. Or do like an Easter egg in an article that sees taking down something or sees retiring. Or I don't know, like someone they're scrolling Facebook, there's a picture of her living her best life.

Speaker: Yeah. You know, there there are ways to do it. and Or i guess it would Instagram because people don't use Facebook anymore. i don't know. I don't use any of them. so who Who knows what it would be by the time they make it?

Speaker: Who knows? But I just, I remember when the news broke, I i was sitting in our living room and i was like, wait, what? What? no, that that can't be right.

Speaker: And so i I went out and found a reputable news source and went into the other room to Stephanie. was like, holy shit.

Speaker: And she's like, no way. And she started pulling up a reputable news source. She said, what happened? It's like, i don't know. The news just broke. Like it it, again, I...

Speaker: and I was just so used to Hayden Pandeyer being part of the media landscape of my life that I didn't even realize that I'm three years younger than her. her I honestly thought she was ah like maybe eight years older than me or something like that. Nope, she was pretty much our age.

Speaker: The shock was not just the fact that she had this incredible career, but it's like it's been like literally since I was a kid, see was a kid, making this legacy of hers.

Speaker: And that hit me really hard. It's like... Yeah, like I think that's why Heroes resonated so much with me too, in that you know although i was a few years behind, it was like looking at...

Speaker: a semi-future version of myself as far as like you know this would be this would be me if this would be me if I had those powers and also had any desire to be a cheerleader well there is I'm good I am not good at like acrobatic shit

Speaker: and The only sport I did, well, I did two sports, and one of them involved a horse, and the other one just meant you had to run. Like, you know, in a circular shape or on a trail or something.

Speaker: Oh, track. I was like, what are they? You mean chase with someone? No, no, track. that Cross country. Honestly, I like cross country better. and Although I never did hurdles.

Speaker: that this That's one of the hurdles, right? is that different that No, cross-country doesn't involve hurdles. Cross-country is just outside on trails. You're thinking of Steeplechase. Yes. Steeplechase is the one that has like the set of hurdles and then the bar and then the water.

Speaker: And then just a week or two later, we we got hit three times in a row. And the first one It was Dolly Parton.

Speaker: Do you want to start with your wife's thing? um Yeah, even though it it's after after your notes, we'll do hers. Now, Dolly, I feel like Dolly is one of those people who's just always been there.

Speaker: I grew up listening to her music because honestly, didn't everybody? Even if you weren't a country music person, you knew Dolly. You knew the voice, you knew the hair, you knew the rhinestones, and you absolutely knew Jolene.

Speaker: But the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that while I love Dolly the Entertainer, I think I love Dolly the Person even more. First, though, we have to talk about 9 5.

Speaker: Because Dolly Sass in that movie is top-notch. Doralee Rhodes could have very easily been played as the stereotypical dumb blonde, especially in 1980. Instead, Dolly made her smart, funny, warm, capable, and completely unwilling to take any anyone's shit.

Speaker: And putting Dolly Parton, Jane Fonda, and Lily Tomlin together was just inspired. Three completely different women with three completely different energies collectively deciding, you know what?

Speaker: Fuck this guy. i support this message. And then there's her music. Dolly somehow managed to make music that crossed genres, generations, and just about every other imaginary line we like to draw around ourselves.

Speaker: My generation grew up with her. Our parents knew her music. Our kids know her music. Country fans love her, but people who wouldn't voluntar voluntarily listen to a country station if you paid them still know Dolly Parton songs.

Speaker: And those songs aren't just catchy. She's an incredible storyteller. Coat of Many Colors, Jolene, I Will Always Love You, 9 to 5. She can make you laugh, break your heart, tell an entire life story in three minutes, and sometimes do all three in the same damn song.

Speaker: But the thing that really gets me about Dolly is her philanthropy, especially the Imagination Library. When I learned that part of the reason she became so passionate about putting books into children's hands was because her father couldn't read, that one got me.

Speaker: Like, actually got me. Because my dad is the person who sparked my love of reading. Books have been such a huge part of my life. Their entertainment, their escape, their imagination, their entire worlds you can disappear into when you need them.

Speaker: And knowing that Dolly looked at something her father never had and thought, I want to make sure other children do have this. Yeah, that'll get me every damn time. There's something incredibly beautiful about taking something that affected someone you love and turning it into something that helps millions of other people.

Speaker: And then there's her faith. I'm not someone who believes exactly the way Dolly does, but I have so much respect for the way her faith has carried her throughout her life because she doesn't seem to use it as a weapon.

Speaker: She talks about it as something that gives her strength, something that grounds her and something that reminds her to love people. I can respect the hell out of that. And maybe that's ultimately why Dali has managed to cross so many boundaries.

Speaker: She can be deeply rooted in where she came from without demanding that everyone else be exactly like her. She's glamorous as hell, but has never pretended she wasn't poor.

Speaker: She's incredibly successful, but doesn't seem embarrassed by where she started. She's openly Christian and still manages to make people with completely different beliefs feel welcomed rather than judged.

Speaker: She's been underestimated because of the boobs, the hair, the clothes, the accent. And meanwhile, she's been quietly proving for decades that she's usually one of the smartest people in the damn room.

Speaker: And she knows it. That's the part I love. Dolly Parton created this enormous, sparkly, larger-than-life version of herself, but underneath all those rhinestones is a ridiculously talented songwriter, a savvy businesswoman, a philanthropist, and a woman with a wicked sense of humor, and someone who seems to genuinely believe that if you've been lucky enough to make it, you ought to reach back and help somebody else along.

Speaker: You don't have to love country music to love Dolly. Hell, you don't even have to understand Dolly. You just have to look at what she's done with the life she built. And I think the world could use a few more people who are willing to be completely unapologetically themselves, love people who aren't exactly like them, give back when they can, laugh at themselves, and leave things a little better than they found them.

Speaker: Preferably while while wearing rhinestones. Because Dolly. Man, how do I follow that? Yeah, you don't. I've learned that in the last 25 years. Yeah, I sure hope you have.

Speaker: ah Well, granted, this is not a wallet test. It's mostly me trying to like put facts down so that I could remember them properly. Sorry, Nick, what were you saying?

Speaker: I was just going to say that ah I think Dolly would appreciate your understanding of that, Daryl.

Speaker: I mean, you know, I'm not dumb.

Speaker: and I will say they that say that your wife has a has ah great understanding of Dolly Parton. And honestly, I think that the floor is to go to our next female speaker.

Speaker: Aw, thank you. So I wrote like a couple things just because I was trying to remember some stuff. um But like Dolly Parton had this super weird thing going on with her most of her life that like shouldn't be humanly possible. But for her, somehow it was.

Speaker: Everyone liked her. And like most still do. And I do mean everyone. Like conservative Republicans, drag queens, parents, kids, politicians, the gays. Yeah.

Speaker: I'm just going to steal a quote from Lindsay Ellis's video i essay here. Daryl, did you get the clip or am I just reading it? You're just reading it. Okay. That universally belovedness is becoming a very rare beast. Your fundamentalist aunt loves her. Your bit Atlantic cousins watch her sing Jolene with Miley Cyrus on NBC.

Speaker: Your queer friends have a dolly tattoo. And those feelings went both, and like this is me again, but those feelings went both ways because Dolly liked and supported everyone too. like This woman spoke out and defended the queer community time and time again without any consideration for how it might like damage her brand or something.

Speaker: like Essentially, she said that she believed people are who they are and they know who they are better than anyone else. like It isn't anyone's place to tell another person person who they are or aren't allowed to be. And we should treat all pipe of people with kindness.

Speaker: And you want to know what the kicker is? Fucking Fox News defended her on this. Like, fuck dude, she got the queerphobes that platformed Cucker Tarlson himself to swallow their slurs in her honor.

Speaker: Like, that's fucking huge. Oh, and the other thing I want to talk about is like the whole Porter Wagner thing, where... You know, like, he kind of helped her jumpstart her career, and then she left his show. Her send-off was actually I Will Always Love You. That was the song she wrote to him about him, thanking him for what he did for her.

Speaker: And you know what he did? He sued her for millions of dollars that she spent years paying out to him. Then, you know, smash cut to some number of years later, and Wagner goes broke.

Speaker: Like, guy made some bad investments, he got dropped by his label, and he lost his entire music publishing company. Well, guess what happens when Dolly hears about this? She comes in with the million she made, you know, since paying Wagner off, and she buys the publishing company.

Speaker: And then she gives it back to him. After all the shit he put her through, she helps him out because, in her words, she wanted his kids to have it. Like, she just did this out of kindness because she cares about people.

Speaker: Oh, and also, side note, Wagner later died in hospice, and guess who regularly visited him, helped care for him, and held his fucking hand while he was slowly dying? Yeah, she really was that good of a person.

Speaker: Also, the woman is like a musical prodigy or something, because, you know, she didn't just write and record her own music. She wrote literal thousands of songs over the years. Like, it's insane. who has Who else has that kind of output?

Speaker: Well, and our our friends, the Movie Defenders, on their most recent Patreon-only Backlap Tour episode, they were talking about they were talking about Dolly. And Scott, who plays guitar, he refuses to call himself a guitarist because he just recently learned, he's like, calling myself a guitarist is a lie.

Speaker: I play guitar. um he was talking about how if you look at interviews, there are, there are videos of different guitarists from all different genres who can shred, you know, and,

Speaker: Then there's videos of her where you know she's got the big nails and she is also shredding. And these other guitarists, to prove like, hey, she's the real deal.

Speaker: They have put on the big fake nails and tried to play as well as she does and can't. Because it's fucking hard with those nails. Yep.

Speaker: And there there is, of course, everyone has heard this story. Everyone by now. So I'm going to be the million and one first person to say it.

Speaker: But but ah I will always love you. Elvis wanted to record it. Elvis, the greatest cover artist to ever do it? Elvis wanted to to record it. He wanted to to do a cover of it.

Speaker: Karaoke legend Elvis Presley? Yes. And they they were in negotiations. Everything was going smoothly. Then Colonel Tom Parker walked into the room.

Speaker: And he said, well, yeah, but you know if Elvis records it, um he he retains the publishing rights to the song. She's like, no, he doesn't, because I wrote the song.

Speaker: Well, if if you don't surrender those rights, then Elvis isn't going to record the songs. Well, then I guess Elvis isn't going to record the song. And she left the room. My favorite addendum to that is that apparently at first they asked her who owned the song and she was just like, um I do.

Speaker: They were not expecting that. Yeah. And I've also seen, I've seen multiple interviews where she's told this story ah more recently.

Speaker: um And I've seen multiple interviews of it in the past week is what I'm saying is that she talked about when it was recorded by Whitney Houston for the bodyguard. Mm-hmm. you know, Kevin Costner's the one who who suggested that song because there was going to be another one, and I don't even remember what it was. They couldn't get the rights.

Speaker: And Kevin Costner suggested it. They reached out to her. She agreed to let them record the song and never heard anything back. She's like, oh, ive I guess maybe they didn't use it. And she was driving her car one day, and it came on the radio.

Speaker: And she was so thrilled at how good it sounded that she pulled into a Walgreens parking lot to stop and just listen to the song and and be happy and astounded. And then all of the royalties that she got from that recording of the song poured back into black schools.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. In Whitney's name. which is amazing. That and that, you know, her song was a part of helping platform a Black woman as a vocalist.

Speaker: hu And there there is a great story that and has been confirmed. again i'll I'll give my brief understanding of Abit.

Speaker: Never really was a country fan. Never really saw her a country star because... Her music was so poppy and so interesting. yeah Honestly, I think it wasn't until I was a teenager that I was like, oh, she's mostly known as a country music star? Everything's so poppy and fun.

Speaker: But, uh, and I just found her to be very interesting. But just like how you're hi your wife Stephanie said, I found her much more inspiring as a person.

Speaker: As someone who has grown up in a household of faith and has a complicated relationship with Faith, but she truly does walk the way that feel that people with Faith should have.

Speaker: ah Humility and just general goodness. And it's especially so in this is retelling that ah has come out that Dolly paid for a great many of like the neonatal and paternal care for women in her home of Tennessee.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. yes None of them had to reach out to an insurance adjuster to handle that because Dolly just did that.

Speaker: She also bought a whole bunch of property where a lot of communities of color, especially black people, are going to be redlined out of the area. and just let them come back in. She's used the wealth that she has it as attained to truly do the works that the Lord asks of you, to to to be a light and inspiration and help those you can.

Speaker: ah And, Betsy, I'm sure you know this. Nick probably knows this. um she is also in part responsible for another franchise that you and I are going to be covering on the show at some point in the near future making it into the world mm-hmm her production company, Sand Dollar Productions, was the money behind the Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie and TV series.

Speaker: Which is, like, crazy when you think about it, like, just how widespread her cultural impact is. is a Yeah. Like, that's not something you would associate in your mind with Dolly Parton, and yet.

Speaker: Again, that did Dolly Parton could I can imagine that we are, again, as we've mentioned, that you said that the movie Spenders did an episode involving her as well, but I can imagine that there are multiple podcasts out there right now talking about the impact of Dolly Part because she truly did break every single line, every single divide, and it's just... and I haven't even talked about thing that I also think is cool yet.

Speaker: Go for it. Go for it, yeah. So, you know how we're talking about like the things that we know her for, like music and movies and her songwriting and you know all this other stuff? There are kids, like so many kids today, that only know Dolly Parton as the book lady because of her work with Imagination Library.

Speaker: Yes. yeahp ah The only thing they know about her is that she's the reason that they get a book every year. And that's... Like... That's beautiful. like As someone who...

Speaker: I love reading. it's It's such an important skill. It's a thing that... The fact that she was able to to do with that is... it Even from the youngest age, before they even read hear her music, they can...

Speaker: have a book in their hands and know they keep getting a book until they turn 18 and there are no limits based on like income or anything like that because that would also exclude a lot of people that you know yes would ostensibly need to take advantage of those services or who those are made for that would technically not qualify on paper because of you know a whole bunch of bullshit but she she did that and It's incredible. The only characters at Dollywood, like, you know, as far as like life and stuff and stuff like that, are characters from books that she's supported, like with the Imagination Library. Like there's a whole section that's like, you know, dedicated to Llama Llama Red Pajama, which apparently is all the rage with kids that I've seen a couple copies that might work.

Speaker: Oh, dude, I think we did. Yeah, we did do a that was one of the books we had to research during my, during my children's literature course.

Speaker: Yeah. And because of how popular it was due to Dolly Parton. he Like there are all these kids that have developed a love of reading that, you know, possibly will go on to become authors or, you know, so many other things themselves because of Dolly Parton's work.

Speaker: Or in general, just reading itself is just a great hobby, a thing that's great for decompressing after a hard day. Or in general, just helping you figure out things about yourself and the world.

Speaker: And it's a hobby that's not necessarily accessible to everyone because... you either have to be able to afford books or you have to live near a library and or have transportation to get to said library. And said library has to, you know, have enough funding to have a wider a range of books. And if it doesn't, then you have to pay for a library card to a library in like the next city over. Like there are a lot of barriers for kids developing a love of reading.

Speaker: Which honestly It does. It does. It sucks a lot. And like literacy is such a huge equalizer in our society, honestly. It does. the Literacy creates so much opportunity. And just being able to read opens up so many different worlds and perspectives and ideas.

Speaker: It means when you're like signing a document, you're able to read it for yourself. Just little basic things like that. like It lends a level of autonomy that otherwise a person wouldn't necessarily have.

Speaker: Yeah. And it's it's the fact that she's going to be... ah Dolly will not be forgotten in any way, I feel. But she has made such a profound mark in just not just pop culture, but our real world lives as well.

Speaker: Well, i I would hope that... the her her legacy as presented in The Orville comes to pass. Ooh, that's good one. Yes, that's that. Because for anyone who hasn't seen The Orville, it started as a Seth MacFarlane Star Trek parody, and very quickly, because he didn't want to do a parody, he originally pitched it as straight Star Trek and Paramount passed on it. it very quickly just leaned into being Star Trek just with a slightly lighter, more contemporary viewpoint or mannerisms of the characters.

Speaker: Slightly contemporary with a... Again, they even dial back the humor like nearly down to zero. Like the entire episode is where there's not a joke. It's stripped of all the grandeur. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But they there was an episode where um one of the alien species introduced was so incredibly male-centric and misogynist that if feeme it when female children were born, they were given gender reassignment surgery.

Speaker: there were very There were very, very, very few female Moklins. Good thing that kind of thing only happens in fiction. and Definitely isn't applicable to anything in real life.

Speaker: ah excellent heth And there there was a movement, there there was a revolutionary from the the group of female Moklins that did exist who just discovered the music. I want to say the captain, Seth MacFarlane's character, introduced her to the music of Dolly Parton.

Speaker: I think you're right. it's been a long time since I've seen it, but that sounds right. Yeah. And her music became basically the rallying cry of the entire movement.

Speaker: And the next season, I don't remember what the what the setup was. I don't know if she was becoming too violent and militant or if she was losing faith in in the fight. I don't remember.

Speaker: It was one of the two. And they put her on the Orville's version of the holodeck where Dolly appeared as herself, as a holographic version of herself to interact with her.

Speaker: And it's like, okay, so she not only knows what the show did, she digs what the show did, and she's willing to play along with the bit.

Speaker: And the bit happens to be um uplifting another woman. Yes. So there you go. It all comes back around. Yep.

Speaker: and I really like those episodes as well. And just in general, the Orville, because when I first heard about it, I was very skeptical. But it's good. It's good. Yep.

Speaker: But yeah, that that went... I honestly like... but That's actually Dolly Parton here right now. Yep. I was like, that's cool.

Speaker: Because he's into it.

Speaker: And then the very next day, we got hit again. and this one hurt. Indeed, no, sir. I'm merely a humble butler. What exactly do you do? I buttle, sir. Tim Curry.

Speaker: This one hit me. I think this one probably hit... I know the one that actually hit me the most. We'll get there. We'll get there.

Speaker: We'll get there. But this one... but this one It definitely strikes me as like similar to Dolly. He's been around my entire life.

Speaker: This is one that it hurt. I hate to say it, but given that we knew how bad his health issues had been for years, the back of my mind had been waiting for for a while.

Speaker: I feel like it's one of those where you know it's going to happen, but the longer it doesn't happen, like there's this part of you that's just holding on to hope that maybe everything will be fine. Even know that's impossible. See also Lee, comma Stan.

Speaker: Yeah. ah But let let me go ahead and and read what Stephanie put together. Yes, please do. I know this really this one hit her too.

Speaker: Okay, Tim Curry. Where do you even start with Tim Curry? Because this man has been out there stealing scenes, chewing scenery, and being gloriously over the top for decades. And somehow it always works.

Speaker: Of course, my absolute favorite is Clue. And yes, I know there are a million iconic Tim Curry roles, but Wadsworth will forever have my heart. His kinetic energy in that movie is phenomenal, especially once we get to the final act and he's basically sprinting through the entire mansion, reenacting the whole damn movie for everyone.

Speaker: The physical comedy, the timing, the facial expressions, the increasingly unhinged delivery, it's perfection. I honestly don't know if any anyone else could have pulled that off without it becoming exhausting.

Speaker: Tim Curry somehow makes absolute chaos look effortless. But I also love him in The Three Musketeers from 1993. Cardinal Richelieu is as or is such a fantastic Tim Curry villain because he doesn't just play evil, he has fun being evil.

Speaker: He's smug, he's theatrical, he's sinister. He's clearly enjoying every second of being the smartest, most devious bastard in the room. Tim Curry understood that if you're going to play a villain, you might as well make sure people have a really good time hating you.

Speaker: And of course, we cannot forget Rooster and Annie. Talk about embracing the over-the-topness of a character. Rooster is sleazy and ridiculous and completely theatrical, and Curry commits to every single second of it.

Speaker: put him together with Carol Burnett and Bernadette Peters. And there's just an absurd amount of talent and scenery chewing happening in one place. I love it.

Speaker: And I bet you thought I forgot Dr. Frank and further. Damn it, Janet. I did not. you can't talk about tim curry with You can't talk about Tim Curry without talking about the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Frank N. Furter wasn't just over the top.

Speaker: He kicked the top off, threw it across the room, put on fishnets and heels, and dared you to have a problem with it. The confidence, the camp, the sexuality, the absolute commitment to the character.

Speaker: Tim Curry didn't wink at the audience like he was somehow above it all. above all but Like he was somehow above the ridiculousness of it all. He went all in, which is exactly why Frank and Furter became iconic.

Speaker: And I think that's really the thing I love about Tim Curry. He commits whether he's a frantic butler, an evil cardinal, a sleazy con man, a terrifying clown, a flamboyant mad scientist from transsexual Transylvania, or literally a giant red demon in legend.

Speaker: There are no half measures. He understands exactly what kind of movie he's in and then somehow manages to turn the Tim Curry dial up about three more notches without ever making you feel like he's making fun of the material. He's dramatic.

Speaker: He's weird. He's funny. He's menacing. He's campy as hell. And that voice could make ordering a pizza sound vaguely sinister. Tim Curry doesn't just play characters.

Speaker: Tim Curry, Tim Curry's the absolute hell out of them. And frankly, cinema is better for it. Bravo. Bravo again.

Speaker: i think Stephanie had a great, had a great, great take on that. Yep. Would you like to go first?

Speaker: First, Betsy, or would like me to go first? Honestly, I think I'll go first because this is something that I want to like find out from you two as well. um So there's a post that I've seen floating around on the old hill site for a couple of years where Tumblr user, by Warlock of Glitter, because yes, I want to give them credit, suggests that you can tell a lot about a person by the first movie they know Tim Curry from, which honestly I think is a kind of a great place to start this discussion.

Speaker: So I just want to ask everyone, like what's the first movie you guys knew Tim Curry from? I can tell you mine right off the bat is Ferdinand Gully. And in retrospect, yeah, that explains a lot about me, actually.

Speaker: like i had this whole moment where certain things hit me, and I'm it's like i'm pretty sure you can trace like the timeline from child me watching that movie to adult me doing stuff like canvassing for Environment America and allegedly protesting outside a bank that financed Mount Topperuville coal mining, including invading one of their shareholders meetings, allegedly, and a bunch of other alleged stuff that probably has me on a watch list for eco-terrorism or whatever. Allegedly. Allegedly. I now, it was like a Lego piece being perfectly placed together.

Speaker: I understand you now. Mm-hmm. As like, Hexas, I think like, honestly kind of scared me as a kid, but not like, you know, as a scary, evil monster or anything, but like in a broader, more conceptual way. Like you've got this character made of smog and sludge who sustained himself by sucking the life out of everything around him and like exists purely to poison and destroy.

Speaker: It's like the perfect personification of environmental degradation that and Small Child and Me understood and that resonated with me far more than like any recycling PSA ever did.

Speaker: And the fact that they enued they were portrayed as somewhat sort of fluid sort of sexual being, especially toxic love, the song Toxic Love. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: explaining the nature of how it's sustained basically by capitalism. And by making it in that way like a slightly least sexual thing, like pointing out how perverse it is that, you know, as a society, we're sustaining ourselves by destroying everything around us, despite the fact that we all have to live on this planet.

Speaker: With this feeding this this monster, it's like... I feel I got a good... i I feel like I've connected the dots.

Speaker: And at this point, at this time, you have connected shit. Like, I generally didn't think about it until now, but I feel like Tim Curry is, like, a part of how I got involved in social justice and activism work in the first place. Like, you know, it started with...

Speaker: Like, my concern for the environment, which led into my involvement with environmental justice, which fed into my involvement with, like, larger social justice causes, which, granted, environmental justice is social justice, and there's a whole thing I can get into about that, but I feel like a lot of that stems back to, like, Tim Curry's portrayal of this, you know, horrible, evil smog monster destroying everything it touches that I saw when I was a little kid.

Speaker: Like, I could never forget that image. I can't like that. That's incredible. ah Daryl, do you want to... I have my answer, but i do do you want to go with your answer first, Daryl?

Speaker: Well, my answer is is going to be far too obvious ah because unless I'm forgetting something I saw first, it's it's Frank. It's Rocky Horror. That's fair.

Speaker: No, no, no. No problem with that. Yeah. No, I was just going to say, you know, because... Rocky Horror came out, I was six when Rocky Horror came out.

Speaker: And so by the time I hit high school, when when you start you going out to movies and and stuff with friends you know and midnight movies, that that was the height of Rocky Horror at midnight movies. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, it's one of the first like real cult classics that were like being played after they were released. And so you that that that was the height of it all. and so It's up there with that that was had and ah the the Night of the Living Dead were two of the biggest like cult classics of the Midnight movie.

Speaker: And then, you know, in in quick succession, there were other things that came out. Like, I didn't see Clue until it hit home video, but I was aware that he was in it. And The Hunt for Red October, you know, so there in in quick succession, there was stuff. But I think the first thing that I was aware of seeing him in was Rocky Horror.

Speaker: Okay. I remember you like on several occasions talking about like in high school, how much of a community you found like in theater, like in that theater class. Yeah. yeah Yep.

Speaker: I was thinking like, does that tie into this at all? um I had not seen it yet, but quite a few of my friends in my theater class had, and we heard the soundtrack quite a few times.

Speaker: And it was, ah well i guess it was maybe my senior year, if not right after that, I finally actually got to go see it. So, but yeah, I mean, that that whole theater group does tie in to Rocky Horror. And I i responded to Rocky Horror much more than I did to their they mystifying obsession with the violent fems.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: i yeah I think that's really cool. I feel like that's also kind of like, you know, I can't speak for you, but you know, you're a very like nerdy, like genre savvy media where person and Rocky Horror Picture Show is like among one of the most like popular, like significant cult classics out there.

Speaker: yeah Yeah. It's again, it's up there at like, up there as one of the original called classics. Yep. I remember you also told me this story about like a project you did in college or whatever where you, something from shock treatment.

Speaker: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. We, we were, we were filming. It was in my video procedures class and we were filming a quote unquote talk show using the, facilities some of the facilities there on campus at the university of North Texas in Denton.

Speaker: And I, you, when you were in a certain position in the crew, you supplied the music for your production, for the production. And so I used Denton Anthem as the intro music because we were in Denton and many other people in the class, when I used it, they're like, can can can I use that for mine?

Speaker: I don't care. Yes, here's the tape with it. Knock yourself out. Because i cause I had had to pull Denton Anthem from my vinyl soundtrack of Shock Treatment because they didn't release it on CD until like the 2000s.

Speaker: Which is kind of crazy when you think about it. and yet Yeah. they I had to pull Denton Anthem from my vinyl soundtrack of the soundtrack onto cassette and take it in anyway, which is yeah what I would have had to do anyway. We didn't have a CD player in in the studio setup.

Speaker: So i was like, yeah, here, here, here's my cheap $1 cassette that I put it on just in case I lost it. Knock yourself out. Yeah. And I just think it's cool. Like that story wouldn't exist without Rocky Horror Picture Show and Tim Curry in the first place.

Speaker: yes No, because i would I would have had no motivation to see shock treatment at all. You might not have even known that shock treatment existed. Right.

Speaker: Right. the So I wouldn't have known that it existed. I wouldn't have had any any motivation to see it whatsoever. e I wouldn't had a great time going to see a local live production of Rocky Horror every weekend at a small theater in town.

Speaker: So much so that we would interact. I mean, they encouraged the audience participation from the movie in the production. And we got to know and interact with the cast so much that they would start to riff back on our riffs.

Speaker: yeah And they were expecting our unique riffs. And we were expecting some of their unique ad libs. Like the the actor who played, um appropriately enough, riffed.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. He was a huge I Love Lucy fan. And so, you know, when when Frank and Riff are looking at the monitors, right? Mm-hmm.

Speaker: they're They're cycling through, and every night, he would start going on a different I Love Lucy episode. he would always start off ah He would always start off, oh, I've seen this one. This is the one where ah Lucy works at the chocolate factory and the conveyor belt, just whatever.

Speaker: Yeah, that's a great episode. And a friend of mine was working at a blockbuster at the time. And so he printed out a duplicate of one of their you know video box covers from an episode of I Love Lucy.

Speaker: And when it got to that point, like when I say it was a tiny theater, I mean, it was a tiny theater. And you know the the audience was practically at the stage. There was no raised stage or anything. And we were sitting near the front. And my friend starts waving the case. And he comes over and he grabs it and he looks at it and he's like, I do know this one. And he started going longer than normal.

Speaker: if On his whole thing. And the guy playing Frank sat down. you know Very exaggerated. With his his chin. on his On his fists. And finally he's like. Are you done now?

Speaker: Yes. yeah and And that wouldn't. have That wouldn't have happened. Without seeing the movie. Yeah. it's like There's this whole like community. That's been built because of.

Speaker: just tim curry's portrayal in this one movie this one small movie that you know originally was critically panned but found a cult following yep but my my favorite memory from going to the live show though and then i promise we will get back to actual tim curry is uh the narrator is up there and he's like it it seems that brad and janet had found the assistance of their plight required or had they And a friend of ours who was with us for the first time yelled out her normal line for that, which is, you tell us, you're the fucking narrator.

Speaker: And the narrator, the criminologist, just so he got flustered because he hadn't heard that one before. i di di Well, fuck you too. That was beautiful. But back to Tim Curry.

Speaker: yeah no I feel like this says a lot about like, you know, the kind of person that you are, just the communities that you've built, the interests that you have, how so much of it comes back to like, you know, these fun niche things.

Speaker: Yep. So yeah, I am inclined to agree with by Warlock of Glitter. Well, let's let's, let's get one more point of, of test data.

Speaker: Nick. o What's yours? Uh, But mine is probably the... It's more similar to Betsy's, but ah definitely different.

Speaker: ah My first encounter with with Tim Curry, carrie and I did know it was Tim Curry because I liked learning... nothing about the it's the When I was a kid, I watched The Great Mouse Detective. a Disney film, sort of a parody of Sherlock Holmes, where Tim Curry played the villain Rattican.

Speaker: Oh, that's a classic movie. Rat version of Moriarty against his is arts nemesis, a mouse version of Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker: And I was blown away by this brilliant performance of a absolutely unique villain. Equal parts criminal mastermind and unhinned savage.

Speaker: Just... Ah! that Everything about that. this the The villain song kit titled Ratican where he's details how cruel and evil he is including the fact that he proudly in the song says the many orphans I drowned even sentencing to death one of his superior one of his ah his minions to death by being eaten by a cat it's it's so dark but also strangely filled with like that camp

Speaker: And extravagance that only Tim Curry could. like He's villainous, and yet you can't help but laugh and find him amusing as he chews the scenery.

Speaker: But you're also scared to death of him. What did do you think of the great mass detective and his performance in there? Oh, I love that movie. I had that movie on VHS. We watched it so much when I was a kid, me and my siblings.

Speaker: ah You know what? I gotta say, you, like, The Great Mouse Detective, explains a lot about you, too. Like, just, you know, you're an English major, a storyteller, like, whether it's, you know, writing or, you know, you as a GM, like, I don't know, that level of, like, character c creation and just...

Speaker: It was the mystery. That's what inspired me the most. The mystery. And seeing a character so... A villain so complex that the hero had to really think their way out of the thrall of it. Sort of might.

Speaker: That really impressed me. it's like I can definitely see that reflected in just the way that you are as a storyteller. Which is really cool!

Speaker: Thank you. um um um'm I'm blessing Ira that it makes me See, buy Warlock of Glitter is right.

Speaker: Well, speaking of of the camp and everything. you And buy Warlocks of Glitter? Yes. ah Everyone has been mentioning in the past week or so the obvious ones. you Frank, Pennywise, Wadsworth, the the big roles, Darkness in Legend. Yeah.

Speaker: I that too I remember a friend of mine was a huge fan of that movie and I he and I were out someplace once and he was buying the soundtrack and he pointed to the picture on the back which it was a full huge picture of darkness like that's the guy from fucking Rocky Horror i was like yeah He sure is. I hadn't seen it.

Speaker: I hadn't seen it. So I hadn't seen Legend. so Oh, so you wouldn't have had the context at that point. ah Yeah. ah But one of my favorite roles of his, if it's a smaller one. i haven't seen anybody else mention it. I don't know who all even remembers that this show existed.

Speaker: But in the 80s, there was a TV show called Wise Guy. And it was about a ah a former mob member who went to prison and he gets out of prison and he's recruited by you know a government agency, you know like an FBI, CIA type and type agency to infiltrate and take down organized crime.

Speaker: yeah yeah this is our bit Usually I'm like, I recognize like old 80s, like, like once in this one, this one's, I have not heard this one at all. So I'm intrigued. same.

Speaker: And each season had one or two different arcs with different stories. You know, like the, the first one was a full season where he infiltrated the mob. i think it was the same, uh, organized crime family that he had been part of before he went to prison.

Speaker: But in in season two, he went undercover ah and there were these there was a huge record label and like this small label.

Speaker: And there was, know, Paola and grift and stuff going on in the music industry. And he gets in with the small label and the small label is run by a husband and wife team. The husband is Paul Winfield.

Speaker: He of dying in many, many, many, a movie, including Star Trek II as Captain Terrell. The head of the huge record company was Tim Curry.

Speaker: oh Oh, and they they had beef with one another. They had been old friends and business partners. And Tim Curry had unceremoniously booted Paul Winfield from the company. He had made millions and Paul Winfield is struggling with this little label.

Speaker: Right. And Tim Curry just exuded this smarmy, sleazy, but charming wreckreproate record exec, music exec. You know, every stereotype you hear about the sleazy music executive, he embodied every moment of it.

Speaker: every little bit of every stereotype you hear and it all kinds of comes to a head about two-thirds of the way through that story arc paul winfield's character dies and the two of them had made a bet slash gentleman's agreement with one another that whichever one outlived the other one got to dance on the other's grave And so I so clearly remember this scene where Tim Curry is in this limo and he picks up Vinny, the main character, in the limo.

Speaker: And Vinny's looking all confused. And Tim Curry is like decked out in top hat and tails, gloves, the whole nine yards. A full Radegan routine.

Speaker: He pulls in into the cemetery and he gets out at Paul Winfield's still fresh grave. You know, the the dirt is still heaped on top of it.

Speaker: And he gets out and he starts with a cane, starts dancing a soft shoe on Paul Winfield's grave. And he's like, tetta ta tet and he's just waxing villainous about what he's doing. And he said, no, you know, we had the agreement and I outlived him and I'm evil, evil, evil, you know, that kind of thing. And then he, he throws his cane in a flourish as he finishes

Speaker: And it hits a smoke bomb that scares the hell out of him. And a recording starts playing of Paul Winfield saying like, you sick bastard. I'm dead and I knew you would be here. i knew you couldn't resist it because you're a sick bastard. You actually went through with it.

Speaker: Okay, that's beautiful. And ultimately, by the end of the storyline, as his whole empire comes crashing down... it sounds like a bit from Blood of Arcane.

Speaker: No, for real. It does. um But as his empire comes crashing down, he he just literally loses his mind. And the last thing... i i don't I can't say for certain that this was the end of the storyline.

Speaker: But um the the last thing I remember of him from the storyline is he'd lost his mind and you then cut to him and he's in leather pants and a leather jacket with his hair greased up like a 50s greaser.

Speaker: dancing in the mirror, slowly singing Bebop-a-Lula, She's My Baby, as he just goes insane. and it's like this creepy, creepy moment of his descent into madness.

Speaker: Oh my god. so i love this. sounds like a fever This sounds like a fever dream. experience and i would i d it's it I mean, i and you know the, I don't remember what the future storylines of that were. I know that the star ended up leaving the show and they brought in another star with the same basic premise, but. But I, I need to see this. This sounds. You need to see that a storyline.

Speaker: Oh, I know it. It was, it was just so, it was so good. but It sounds so like an avant-garde episode of Hannibal. And I just... I still remember it to this day. Looking it up... ah Oh my god. I'm looking on on YouTube right now for it. i said Tim Curry singing Soul Man, Wise Guy 1989. Yeah.

Speaker: um Put it in the chat. Put it in the Discord. And, um, but, yeah, it I still remember that role.

Speaker: And, uh, I was going to go somewhere else after that, and I don't remember what it was, because it was just so, so crazy.

Speaker: It was so, so crazy. Um,

Speaker: and that We would be remiss if we didn't mention Muppet Treasure Island. well Oh, yeah. which Which is of a piece with Muppet Christmas Carol. as in

Speaker: As......in......which... he Here's what makes the two of them work. Muppet Christmas Carol works because Michael Caine...

Speaker: you acts the hell out of Dickens and treats the Muppets as if they are actors of the same caliber. The Royal Shakespeare Company, specifically.

Speaker: yeah Yes, that as if they are the Royal Shakespeare Company. Muppet Treasure Island works because Tim Curry acts like he is just another Muppet. He was made an honorary Muppet by the Muppets.

Speaker: So... he He said that they he said he he would be married to Miss Piggy. Yep. Well, and and that's yeah, he he said in an interview once, you know, he's it's like the the the woman that got away was Miss Piggy.

Speaker: And he's right. He's so valid for that. um And there was there was another one that I was going to mention, and I've completely lost what it was, because I went into far more detail about Wiseguy than I had expected to. You do realize that everyone that's listening to this episode is going to be looking up this episode and trying to find it.

Speaker: and it one youtube It was an entire story arc on Wiseguy. There's no way that was just one episode. Yeah, there's going to be an obscure YouTuber that has been uploading Wiseguy that's been waiting for years and it's going to get updates with multiple people subscribing and upvoting It's going to get down because of us.

Speaker: Yep. Oh, hey. Oh, looking on YouTube, I just found an account that says Wiseguy full episodes, 53 videos. So they might have that entire story arc on there.

Speaker: Amazing. They make...

Speaker: that you're going to wake up up when we post this episode and be like, why are so many people coming to these specific episodes? what Why have I gotten 10 more hits on these episodes?

Speaker: Because our entire audience will click on them. All three of you. Yes. The ones who are still listening anyway. But if I feel like this whole discussion just goes to show like how unique Tim Curry's body of work is.

Speaker: Like, how varied it is, but how, like, every character that he's ever played is so, like, quintessentially Tim Curry. Yeah. He is Tim Curry.

Speaker: He's in so many things. Like, to go on the list would would be ad nauseum. But you could definitely tell when Tim Curry is playing a character.

Speaker: It's like he has this ability to completely disappear into a character and yet at the same time always be unapologetically himself. And I don't know how he does that. It's like, that shouldn't be possible.

Speaker: It's the inverse of like, oh, they're just playing themselves. Like, no, Tim Curry's playing someone else, but I know that's Tim Curry. Like, it's different than when I see, like, I don't know, Will Smith in a movie where I don't even know the character's name. I just keep calling him Will Smith the whole time.

Speaker: yeah it Go ahead. Go ahead. I just remembered where else I was going to go. up duy If you haven't, go for it. Well, and we we mentioned it in our Dark Knight Returns episode when we were talking with Brev.

Speaker: But it's interesting to think how different Batman the Animated Series would have been had they kept him, had they kept Tim Curry as the Joker.

Speaker: Oh, so that's an interesting alternate timeline. Because i I know exactly why they didn't. they yeah He recorded the first episode with the Joker and it came back and they're like, yeah, he's too scary.

Speaker: Yeah, he's literally going to scare the shit out of all these kids. Because he was, I think that the acts were like, he was going too much into the Pennywise area. where like Yeah, everyone's sharing clips of him being the funny clown right now, but no, that clown's traumatized everyone.

Speaker: It's not even that, it's literally just, that's his voice. Yeah. That's just Tim Curry's voice. He's being himself. And that's terrifying. give him menacing things to say, it sounds so menacing and sinister.

Speaker: So make him the clown prince of crime, he's going to just be himself, and oh no, that's infinitely scary. It's like the only reason Bart Campbell worked is because despite saying all this like unhinged sinister shit, like there was a bit of levity to it.

Speaker: That goes out the window with Tim Curry because he just has this way of making so many things sound sinister. Like I think it's it's how Stephanie put it where like he could make ordering a pizza sound like that.

Speaker: Yeah. like Yes. Like there's people that say like, oh, I could listen to ah to Morgan Freeman read me. read me the yellow pages, and I'd fall asleep.

Speaker: If Tim Curry read read the yellow pages, I'd be freaking sitting myself. I'd be looking under the bed. I'd be looking under the bed to see what was crawling out from under it.

Speaker: Probably also like the closet and the hallway and everything else. And although i mentioned this on that same episode...

Speaker: Consider this, Betsy. I heard in my head Tim Curry as the Joker while reading Dark Knight Returns.

Speaker: Yeah, that's like, honestly, that would be ideal.

Speaker: Honestly, stronger than Mark, yeah. like Like I told Nick and Brev on that episode, what really did it as I was rereading it for that episode, when the Joker comes out of his catatonic state and says, Batman, darling.

Speaker: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. hundred percent. yes That's Tim. Yeah, right. That's that. that it You're right. i Did you remember you saying that? It's like, yeah, it is. That's a Tim Curry reading.

Speaker: and good i know was like i don't think i I don't think Mark could handle that. I don't think Mark could do that. It's it just not in his vocal register, but Curry could.

Speaker: yeah like that like That lip movement and like sort of like puckering on the lips like that like like he's blowing a kiss when he says, darling. Yeah, that was what popped into my head when I was reading it.

Speaker: I'm imagining it in the same voice where he says, it's not easy having a good time. Yes. But then make it extra evil. Yeah. And then the day after that, Gen X just got punched in the gut.

Speaker: We got punched in the gut when we lost Peter Cullen. And Nick, this one is all you. One shall stand, one shall fall.

Speaker: Why throw away your life so recklessly? That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron. a man van of many fandoms. No! I'll crush you with my bare hands!

Speaker: And I wouldn't even say that Transformers is my biggest hat, but it's one of them. When I would say the character of Optimus Prime is one of my biggest inspirations, it's true.

Speaker: As a character that is probably the strongest and most respected individual that I see, that's leadership. That's courage.

Speaker: That's what you should aspire to be. Yeah. I mean, yes, it, it's kind of funny to, or not so much funny, but just fun. you know, you sit back and you watch you years and years and years of cartoons and you, you pick out the classic voice actors, you pick out the Peter Collins, you pick out the Frank Welkers, you know, and you're like, oh that's right. You know, it,

Speaker: It is funny to watch the episodes of Knight Rider that have Kit's evil twin car and go like, ah, it's Optimus Prime is the voice of Kit's evil twin.

Speaker: But he he was everywhere. He was everywhere in our childhoods. Multiple childhoods. and But his major impact it will obviously be known as Optimus Prime. His last voice was was as the heroic former Vilfermite in the last season of Invincible.

Speaker: Yeah, and there as the story goes, the first day that they had him record for Invincible, the crew just started you started freaking out and nerding out and and crying because...

Speaker: they were the kids that grew up watching Transformers. And they had Optimus Prime in the booth. Yeah. Yeah, the Optimus Prime.

Speaker: Again, the inspiration for for his voice was actually his older brother, Larry Culler, a decorated Marine captain who served in Vietnam.

Speaker: He relates this multiple times. He said he was, I'm... voicing a heroic truck that's supposed to be a leader and his his older brother said this if you're going to be a hero to be a real hero you have to be strong enough to be gentle and that's what he carried into into his audition and that's yeah you are

Speaker: our friends at the movie defenders on their episode, when they were talking about that same story, they played a clip of an interview where he told that story.

Speaker: And as he was telling it, the voice changed from his normal voice into the optimist voice. Cause it, it, it's,

Speaker: I know exactly what the interview was. that They searched for that. it's like That's such a beautiful message. And I say this in that I... To step out of the of the moment. it's like There's been a lot of like masculine channels that trying... Or influences that are trying to reassert what masculinity is.

Speaker: Yeah, the Manosphere Bros... Yes. Yes. They don't get it. Your antiratates, your fresh and fit, your, i don't know, whoever the fuck else.

Speaker: They don't get it. Peter Cullen understood that. To be strong is to be kind, to be gentle.

Speaker: To not be, to be a warrior is to be someone that fights for people. And he embodied that for everyone.

Speaker: And I found that just beautiful. And that's just one of his many contributions. Like, yes, Hothwaist Prime is his biggest lasting legacy. His longest role.

Speaker: But, like, you know, this was the same guy that was Eeyore and Winnie the Pooh. Yep. Yeah. He was also voice behind.

Speaker: He also was the source of the iconic like ah predator sound. And he yeah he had a story about that too. yeah His inspiration was that he saw a ah ah horseshoe crab.

Speaker: one One of the oldest organisms on Earth currently. They're super cool. Super cool. He saw one flipped over one time as a kid and reflected what that would look like.

Speaker: and it's vocal rings, and that's how he got it. Yeah. it That was the one that, yeah again, you know mentioning our our friends over at the Movie Defenders,

Speaker: um Scott told a story that um you when when he was younger, his dad was impacted by John Wayne's death.

Speaker: And Scott didn't get it. Scott was a kid. And he's like, what, the cowboy guy? or Whatever. And he said, with Peter Cullen, that's when he got it.

Speaker: Because his dad grew up on John Wayne and cowboy movies. And that was his dad's, you role model for for being a hero and a good person at a formative age.

Speaker: And Optimus Prime was that for Scott. It's the same for me. I feel like it's... And the fact I feel there's at least like three different eras of people that understand that Optimus Prime was their hero.

Speaker: and Their respect. be it the the classics and the from the 80s to to the the Michael Bay movies, to to the tooth the games and Transformers Prime of of the post-2010s, he hope that symbol of hope of like, he fights for everyone. And in the fact, like, not to sound like I'm selling out for it, but like, the Energon universe comics really do feel like off of his prime. It's like, like his voice, I can't help but feel that, that's his voice.

Speaker: And the thing that gets me too is like, you know, Transformers was ostensibly a cartoon designed to sell kids toys. It was. It was a 30-minute commercial.

Speaker: Yeah. I will never – Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. I will never – when people say like – when you do realize it's a toy commercial, it's like, yeah.

Speaker: What of it? it It impacts because the actors and the creators behind it were actually doing stuff.

Speaker: Yeah, like, you know, Peter Colan could have just phoned it in because, you know, it's essentially a commercial. Who gives a shit? But no, he took, like, you know, a cartoon character that was supposed to make people, like, go to fucking Toys R Us or whatever and, you know, buy all the Transformers and their accessories sold separately and all that and it's kind of similar to what we were talking about with Michael Caine and the Muppets where like he gave, e he brought everything to this role and gave it so much like gravitas and character and like Optimus Prime would not have like the impact that he does, would not be the character that he is without Peter Colan's performance.

Speaker: Especially because he went to his brother. So like, yeah, you're, you're a war hero. you You came back from Vietnam. It's like, what does it take to be a leader? And like, he didn't have to do that. Again, he could have phoned it in, but no, he actually tried to embody the character with his performance.

Speaker: Cause like, I'm good. He will always say like, yeah, he, Travis was like, I'm a truck that's been fighting in a long war and I'm a leader. and I just think it's so cool that, you know, what could have been like a footnote ended up having just,

Speaker: such a long-lasting impact on so many people, kids, at adults, everything in between, like, from the very first series to, like, the fucking Bayformers and, you know, all the various cartoons, the games that you mentioned, the comics that don't even have voice in them because they're comic books and yet you still hear Peter Cullen's voice every time Optimus Prime is on panel?

Speaker: Because they're written in the way that he spoke. how he phrased things and some of that was like yeah he was written to say some some some cheesy lines but Dan did they sound impressive because even when they were cheesy like he just played it completely straight and you bought it I bought it you know if it had been so many other people it would probably wouldn't have been like ah yeah you know that's really corny and doesn't really mean I think it's a platitude or whatever But no, just the way Peter Cullen delivered it, it had meaning.

Speaker: When he said, like, freedom is the right of all sentient beings, I feel that. And that's like, yeah. That's correct. It sounds like something you could have thrown on, like, a motivational poster or something.

Speaker: ed as And he when he confronted Megatron in in the movie, in the original movie, he's like, One cell stand, one cell fall.

Speaker: Like... I know, you could have laughed it off like, aha, it's a Thunderdome reference or something. Right. It's... It's not just become impactful in that movie, but... Or the franchise. It's sort of iconic, like, that's the... That is like, oh, that that's... It's a throw it out.

Speaker: ah just you know Especially in today's climate, like the way he embodied a character that I think is more relevant now than ever in some ways. Oh, he has. And there's a great image. it's It's been colored in, but it was done by the artists that are doing the Anderjohn comics.

Speaker: Oh, I think I've seen that. i think you've shown me that. Yep. And, you know, it it's... It's Althurs Prime. well And you know just the the way that... i'm I'm trying to think of the way to put it.

Speaker: that The way that he voiced the character set a standard that, yes, we know that the character is going to go on, and yeah other people have voiced the character.

Speaker: Multiple times. And there there are some really good ones. and But they all are working off of that. But respectfully, they've never tried to replicate.

Speaker: Because they can't. No one can. No one can. And even that's my favorite part of Transformers 1. It's like Chris Hemsworth does a great Optimus Prime.

Speaker: But he is not Peter Cullen's Optimus Prime. Yeah. And I feel that's the fairest way to see it. It's like... but i I hoped... hoped it... Again, it hurt... It hit... That was the one that really hit me. Again, it's probably the assistance of oh that, but also it's like... This was the one that broke me down in tears.

Speaker: Well,

Speaker: all four, all five of these people impacted so many. And they, like we said up top, they all have such different stories and different trajectories and different ways that they touched so many lives, but they did. And it,

Speaker: having especially having three just back to back to back was such a hit. like with It was and the fact it was three in a row that really hit me hard. and i i love admit i i was And we i was angry i went through some moments of of grief but ah and you know we we've We've got our our you know cheesy little running gag that we do, so it feels you know it feels almost wrong to do it, but you I would be glad to see any one of them return in Avengers Doomsday, because that would mean that they were back, that they were still with us.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I'd be so glad to have them back because they had someone what to say, especially someone as young as Kaylee. many.

Speaker: he and secret secret inspired he's inspired benny Depends on how many more she can inspire more and more roles. Bigger roles. See, have a whole career front of her.

Speaker: And that's where we'll leave it for this episode. Five remarkable people, five extraordinary legacies, and countless memories that will live on in the music, stories, characters, and performances that they gave us.

Speaker: We may have lost them, but the things they created don't disappear. They become part of us. And as long as we keep watching, listening, laughing, singing, and telling those stories, a little bit of them stays with us.

Speaker: They'll live long with us as they are part of us. that that they're Their memories, their stories are not forgotten. Their their contributions will not be forgotten.

Speaker: And all of them had impacts outside of their work as actors. I mean, Dolly Parton was the most public about it, but a lot of the others had some very like quiet advocacy advocacy going on too.

Speaker: Yeah. Like Aidan Panettiere was a huge advocate for animal rights, especially marine animals. Peter Cullen has this whole like environmental foundation that's literally named after him for protecting the waters in Australia.

Speaker: um Tim Curry has supported, honestly, several things, but he's fought tirelessly for like AIDS causes. um What else did I put in my list?

Speaker: Oh yeah, the Entertainment Community Fund to support actors. He has an endowment named after him for the Midwest Writing Center for like youth, which I think is really cool. ka Kaylee Holt had made many many many large advocations for deaf actors and actresses.

Speaker: And we will have links to the those charities that they supported in the show notes. ah Yes, I demanded it, and I did the research. I found them. Thank you.

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