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Clone Watch Episode 30
5 Plays2 minutes ago
The truth behind Order 66 begins here.
We discuss Fives' desperate search for the truth, the mystery of the inhibitor chips, Palpatine's master plan, and why this heartbreaking story completely changes the way we view the clone troopers—and Revenge of the Sith itself.
Is this the greatest arc in The Clone Wars? Tune in and find out.
00:00 Introduction
07:24 The Unknown
42:47 Conspiracy
1:18:04 Fugitive
1:47:57 Orders
To follow along with your viewing, you can find the Clone Wars chronological viewing list at:
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder
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Transcript
Introduction to Casual Nerdity Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Our aim is to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Clone Watch Episode Overview
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everybody. we are We are back for another Clone Watch episode. a while. Yes, and today we're talking about that arc.
00:00:44
Speaker
You know the one. fives. Even I know the one. Yes. Inhibitor chips, the conspiracy that changes everything we thought we knew about the clones, and makes Revenge of the Sith hurt even more.
Meet the Hosts and Guest
00:00:57
Speaker
I am Daryl, and with me, as usual, Nick. I'm Lauren. And guess who's back, because it's an episode about my son.
00:01:10
Speaker
Yes, Betsy is back, so welcome to... when are you eventually adopting all of us into into your extended family? Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
00:01:22
Speaker
yeah So, welcome to ah casual Betsy. Betsy watch I just have a lot of feelings about this arc okay leave me alone the Betsy missins the Betsy episodes Yes.
Praise for Season 6 of Clone Wars
00:01:40
Speaker
So these four episodes, The Unknown Season 6 Episode 1, Conspiracy Season 6 Episode 2, Fugitive Season 6 Episode 3, and Orders Season 6 Episode 4 aren't just some of the best episodes of the Clone Wars. They're some of the best Star Wars period, I would say. Some of the most important.
00:02:01
Speaker
And some of the most emotionally devastating episodes. Yes. So let's jump into one of the most heartbreaking stories in the galaxy
Explaining Clone Watch and Star Wars Fandom
00:02:09
Speaker
and ask the question we're all going to be yelling at our TVs and your your podcast catcher of choice. Why won't any anyone listen to Fives?
00:02:19
Speaker
As we venture into the Clone Wars, the Lost Missions. Now, let let's explain before we dive in really quickly. For those who might be listening for the first time, Clone Watch is what happens when you have a group of people who like Star Wars a totally normal amount, to borrow Betsy's phrase. Just normal. Very normal.
00:02:45
Speaker
Who are also avid role-playing gamers. who have a new friend come into the mix for a different game and get mixed in with our Star Wars games and everything else, that would be Lauren. That's me. And they might regret it.
00:03:03
Speaker
That's her when they will regret it. but It's eventual. Yes, now now they can't escape. Yes, it's true. Because we hold her hostage. I was going to say, she's our prisoner forever. and One us. One of us.
00:03:18
Speaker
Although, it really, isn't Nick the one that's
Inside Jokes and Shared Interests
00:03:20
Speaker
trapped with all of us? True. Yes. Yes. And so... but I trapped with a different trap. So we have a bunch of, you know, inside jokes and references and things that we keep making to Star Wars. And Lauren was like, okay, I don't get it.
00:03:40
Speaker
So...
Lauren's Star Wars Journey
00:03:43
Speaker
You started spending time with Nick, yeah watching Star Wars, starting with the... prequels episode one episode two and being a fan of animation nick convinced you to watch the clone wars in the most horrific way possible which is chronological order well it was more like uh i suggested that we check out the clone wars and then nick made me watch episodes one and two before doing that yeah that sounds about right yeah yeah that's uh that sounds like nick i can fix her
00:04:15
Speaker
But no, no, we started watching the Clone Wars and then I was like, oh, you have to at least watch them. And i even I was elected to like, this is not going to be fun.
00:04:26
Speaker
um come on, it's where the memes come from. Just watch them for that. It is true. If you don't watch Attack of the Clones, you don't get to see the I hate sand monologue in its natural habitats.
00:04:40
Speaker
And if anyone knows memes, it's Lauren. Yes. Yes, I am the meme. <unk> incarnate Honestly, I feel that la Lauren enjoyed enjoy those watches more than I did because was like, oh, wow.
00:04:55
Speaker
lot I was to YouTube towards them. but correct Correct me if I have my numbers wrong,
Geeky Banter: Kirby and Memes
00:05:01
Speaker
Lauren. You are made of 20% water, fleshy fleshy things and ah seventy per cent memes but a hundred percent yuri Yes, yes, although you need to put in some hamsters and Kirby in there as well. Oh, you're right, you're right. Wait, was Kirby under the fleshy things part?
00:05:23
Speaker
Maybe, maybe. Although way he's a little bit more rubbery than fleshy. Don't ask him about Kirby. I'm still recovering from when they explain Kirby to me. One of these days! Yep, it'll be your turn, Nick.
00:05:36
Speaker
The turntables will be on the other foot. No, no, i would I was there. Everyone else has to learn the horrors I had to learn. I don't because I've given ah Lauren recorder access to our recording platform so she can record, run the Kirby episode.
00:05:55
Speaker
and She will duct tape you to a chair and make you learn all the Kirby lore. you still you still You should still learn the the Kirby things, Daryl. and Even if you don't have to. Well, see, the thing is, I won't have anything to contribute to that episode so I can listen to it.
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But I wouldn't have anything to contribute. Yes.
Betsy's Passion for Clone Wars
00:06:15
Speaker
But let's go ahead and dive in because we have many, many walls of Betsy text in the show notes. Yeah, there are some that are over a page.
00:06:27
Speaker
It's another green episode, everybody. So those are our Betsy fans. ah Strap in. It's time. And those that aren't, strap in because you're going to deal with me anyway.
00:06:42
Speaker
I mean, I question anyone who is not a Betsy fan. Aww. That's fair.
00:06:50
Speaker
But let's begin. My friend Grant is a fan of your of your episodes. Is he okay?
00:06:59
Speaker
Is he secret? Is he safe? I'm just saying, you know, if he's like a fan of me, is he okay? Like, is something wrong? Because he might want to get that checked out. Do they have a shot that'll clear that up yet, Betsy? Yeah.
00:07:12
Speaker
um Not as far as I know. They should probably invent one, though.
00:07:17
Speaker
don't know there's a vaccine for you yet. They should get working on that.
Analysis of 'The Unknown' Episode
00:07:23
Speaker
We will dive in with the first episode that we are covering. The Unknown, Season 6, Episode 1. Clone Trooper Suffers a Mysterious Mental Illness.
00:07:34
Speaker
Ooh, spooky. Spooky. So we open with Anakin and his troops alongside two new Jedi in pitched battle. On the planet Ringo Vinda, a world with a large artificial artificial ring structure that was first developed in the concept art for Star Wars Episode III.
00:07:55
Speaker
It looks really cool, and I want to steal it and put it in an RPG session. Oh, it's really cool. But also, twins! that The two new Jedi are twins, and ah as a twin IRL, I just like seeing twins in media.
00:08:14
Speaker
So, Nick, are you the evil twin, or is Nicole the evil twin?
00:08:20
Speaker
Wait, Nick must be, because Nick has has the facial hair. Oh, that's true. The one, because when you're in the darkest timeline and you're the evil version, you have the facial hair. Yep. i mean I was just thinking of the Coors commercial. I mean, I think it would really look good with a goatee.
00:08:40
Speaker
I mean, you give it a try. Give it a try, but you have the facial hair, so you're the evil twin. Which made it really interesting on that episode of Deep Space Nine where where Riker's transporter clone came back and stole the Defiant because Riker already had a beard.
00:08:57
Speaker
And so hit his transporter clone was revealed to be the not quite evil, but the bad twin that he had, you know, the beard. But it turned out that, you know, the the two pieces going down the side to connect to what was essentially a goatee were false. He peeled those off and he had just the evil twin goatee.
00:09:20
Speaker
Because it was the only way they could differentiate. Yes, even though Riker himself was not in that episode. So there was no need to differentiate. Don't kick kick my butt if I just have a goatee. I figure it would be cool.
00:09:36
Speaker
Well, I mean, are you also going to show up like wearing glitter and stuff from the alternate timeline? In a crop top? Yeah. i mean the He needs to wear that that episode that season one episode one gambit outfit from the kitchen.
00:09:54
Speaker
There we go. That was a good one. that I'm just saying whoever like gave him that outfit understood the assignment.
00:10:03
Speaker
Anyway. Yes. Back on track. But yes, Tup is there and look at him. It feels like yesterday he was a baby shiny and now he's like moving and speaking with confidence and he saved
Tup's Condition and Emotional Impact
00:10:15
Speaker
my son's life. i just, they grew up so
00:10:19
Speaker
Yes, yes. And they engage in combat and not just any combat. This combat has the Bubble Boys!
00:10:33
Speaker
They do. it It's been quite a few Clone Watch episodes since we've had to run that clip. Yes, yes. they're They're back. They're here. a full squad of them. It's a big dangerous moment. They're here for about 30 seconds. Yes.
00:10:49
Speaker
they're here for you know about thirty seconds yes And then they go away. But they come back. Yeah. I like the twins trick of floating you know the the shielded droidekas up to slowly lower them back down on the droid poppers so the grenades are inside the shields. Oh, yeah. It really sounds that this is like three years before new tricks have been developed.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah. like I wonder how long people would like stare at them like, how do we get the droid poppers in? And then someone's finally like, wait, what if we just you know pick them up and then put them back down?
00:11:30
Speaker
and yeah the the amount of droid poppers they put out is like, but this is a perfect trick. like What if we just pick up the droidekas and move them somewhere else?
00:11:44
Speaker
And Tup isn't feeling so well. he He says that he doesn't feel like himself, but I'm sure it's fine. He's just tired. Yeah, yeah. You know, ah he's he's saying Jedi quite menacingly, which surely doesn't mean anything.
00:12:01
Speaker
What are you talking about? He's just tired. Mm-hmm. he's just tired and
00:12:08
Speaker
What is the lore break? For our antagonists. This is the return of Admiral Trent. All the way from back from from season 2, episode 16, Cat and Mouse.
00:12:22
Speaker
Actually, the first episode, chronologically, of the Clone Wars series. um
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah, there's something about chronologically... Mutter grumbled right seemingly met his end at the hands of Anakin and Admiral Yularn. But he's back with Cyborg stuff.
00:12:43
Speaker
Cyborg spiders. Yes, and so we we get a little bit of Tup not feeling so great. Hey, you all right? Yeah, I just... Come on, this is a textbook battle. We've run through this a million times before in training. Yeah, I know. I just, I don't feel like myself. What do you mean?
00:13:06
Speaker
Follow me. Jedi... Tom, what's the matter with you? Uh, nothing, I'm fine. Come on, brother. Don't want to be left behind.
00:13:24
Speaker
ah Screaming, crying, throwing up, just Tup, no! Okay, real talk, I love how they had him like describe what's going on as, I don't feel like myself. you know like They could have had him say, something is wrong, or I feel weird, or you know something else equally vague, but like from the get-go, they're immediately honing in on this experience of Tup feeling like he's no longer you know Like, this sense that he's not himself and there's like this level of disconnect between who he knows himself to be and what he's actually experiencing in real time. It's like the actual him feeling alienated from the physical him.
00:14:01
Speaker
Like, the clones are largely alienated from their physical selves because as far as the Republic is concerned, they're just tools designed to do what they're told.
00:14:12
Speaker
Oh no, they're alienated from their labor. Oh no, someone stop me before I do a Marxist reading of the Clone Wars because we don't have time for that. Sorry, sorry. Back on track, back on track. Fives is trying so hard to hype him up. He's like, come on, it'll be easy. You got this. Like, you know, Tub is just nervous or something and like he's trying to be a supportive brother while focusing on the task in front of them.
00:14:32
Speaker
So poor Tub just tries to follow Fives' lead ignore whatever it is because, you know, they have bigger fish to fry and If Fives doesn't worry, then surely yay is no reason to be either. you know, it's probably fine.
00:14:43
Speaker
And also, you know, Fives' last line about not wanting to get left behind, dare I say... Foreshadowing is a literary device. Yeah. Long break.
00:14:55
Speaker
But, uh, alleged prison lore. A teardrop tattoo mark under the eye allegedly... indicates that a wearer has committed murder, spent time in prison, or is mourning a tragic loss of a loved one.
00:15:12
Speaker
And a lot of the the like individual like markings on both the clones as tattoos as well as on their helmets have significant meanings.
00:15:25
Speaker
Yep. And, i mean, maybe Tup has done all three? Tup has had that teardrop since we first met him. during an arc that I don't like to talk about.
00:15:38
Speaker
it With, you know, the Jedi general I don't like to talk about because he's a mean person who did bad things to my boys. he's He's a meanie pants? Yes, he's a meanie pants.
00:15:50
Speaker
So Tup starts saying good soldiers follow orders and then just casually walks up to one of the Jedi and shoots her in the head.
00:16:04
Speaker
Yep. And that dramatic moment is immediately followed up by more Bubble Boys! And also some stories. Mostly Bubble Boys? Yeah, mostly Bubble Boys.
00:16:17
Speaker
but But there's also some B2s and some of the heavy heavy ah aerial B2s. And yeah this is not a good time for airwands. Yeah, no, we're talking about Bubble Boys. Nick, come on get on, get on the program. Yeah, it's the Bubble Boys. Get on program! They they they basically ah force everybody to retreat with with one of the Jedi suddenly taken down.
00:16:40
Speaker
And Admiral Trench reports back to Count Dooku telling him that the clone trooper looked like he just couldn't help himself in shooting the Jedi. If it were a couple clicks, there were clicks of a teeth every so often.
00:16:56
Speaker
And would like to note that Trench is getting a great usage of his multiple arms by doing both a beard stroke and the arms folded back behind the back combo. A truly powerful stance for contemplation.
00:17:12
Speaker
I mean, it if you had four arms, wouldn't you aura farm like that? undoubtedly. It's a powerful pose that few can compete with.
Sith Manipulation and Clone Programming
00:17:25
Speaker
And he's posing like that at front of Dooku. He did use a specific warning, but I think our guest is going to use certain sound clips later tonight, so I won't draw attention to it yet.
00:17:38
Speaker
o Basically, this I picture the scene as Dooku's just actively panicking, but he's trying to play it cool when Trench reports what happened, and he's all like, you know, Oh, he's probably just a traitor. Nothing to see here. Oh, what's that?
00:17:50
Speaker
You could visibly tell that he wasn't acting of his own volition? Wow, that sure is weird. No idea why that would ever happen. Um, excuse me, I gotta to go make some calls.
00:18:01
Speaker
And then on the other hand, you hear, thank you for calling the Kamino and Chloe customer service line. Your call is very important to us. Please remain on the line for the next available agent.
00:18:22
Speaker
and he's just stuck on hold for like the next 10-15 minutes. He's just standing like stiff like stiff as a board, but he's also like...
00:18:33
Speaker
Somebody pick up! Anybody pick up! This is a problem! i i can i can put the phone down and run, grab myself a drink, but as soon as I do, they're gonna answer. yes Yeah, better not need to go to the bathroom because that will also be when they answer, and then they'll hang up and you gotta be on hold all over again.
00:18:49
Speaker
and there's also a private message that'll be like from from Sidious being like, hey, I got a feeling that something's going wrong. Something's going wrong? Something's going wrong?
00:19:02
Speaker
i just I just had a memory triggered in me. The the very first call center that I worked in, for a time, they had like a live service for during the hold.
Humorous Call Center Anecdotes
00:19:15
Speaker
And you know the the customers had to like enter information in that you know basically identified them as they got into the queue. And there would be like a live DJ that would come on and like,
00:19:29
Speaker
And they it would rotate through songs. It wasn't just generic hold music. And they'd be like, hey, Betsy, thanks for holding for us. Hope you enjoy this song while you wait. you know We'll be with you shortly. And then launch into another song.
00:19:43
Speaker
Oh my god, I would hate that. the Several people were like, that was creepy. Stop it. Don't talk to me like that. Who are you? That sounds cyberpunk dystopian.
00:19:56
Speaker
That's a horrifying. Like, I do not want them to... Like, it's bad enough that it's generic, bad music. I don't want them to acknowledge me that they're there and then still playing generic, horrible music. Like I said, this wasn't generic. This was, like, songs. Oh, my God. This was...
00:20:19
Speaker
just second This was like an expensive hold service, which is part of why it went away that, and you know, customers found it creepy.
00:20:30
Speaker
It's fucking weird, man! Yeah, that sounds fucking horrifying! already have to make an adult phone call! Stop perceiving me while I'm on hold! ah nightmare fuel don't that don't ask me to make song requests where I'm waiting to like just do a call like oh god that's horrible they weren't asking for requests because they couldn't interact with you but they were just like worse it was just like hey Nick yeah we appreciate your your business you please hold you know for the next available agent and while you listen you know we appreciate your patience so this one's for you
00:21:09
Speaker
So you can hear them, but they can't hear you. So like you could be screaming bloody murder on the other end of the line as you're getting stabbed and they would have no idea. here, here, Nick, here's the rude sandstorm. It's like, why why, why did you think that that's what I wanted?
00:21:30
Speaker
And then it would launch into some, you know, totally inoffensive, you know, pop music thing. And like the same music they play over the speakers at the grocery store. Yes, although the grocery store that we go to, sometimes they have some you know pretty good stuff.
00:21:45
Speaker
You're going to be like, oh, God, that sounds terrible. Back on track, <unk>re we're talking about one dystopian sci-fi series. We need to need to get into the side notes about this dystopian series. Yeah, sorry, I was stuck in just the horrifying concept that that brought up.
00:22:02
Speaker
Okay, now to get that off of my mind, because we have enough horrifying things here. Oh, I just wanted to say that, side note, I live for how much trust Anakin puts in the 501st and how much respect he
Anakin's Connection to Clones
00:22:12
Speaker
treats them with. Like, you know, Tup essentially just committed treason and instead of being like, him or a Tup Lord, take him into custody or whatever, he looks at Five and is like, okay, something's going on with Tup.
00:22:22
Speaker
Five, you're in charge of looking after him until we can figure out what's going on. Like, Anakin knows what he saw, but he also knows Tup. Like, he knows that Tup would never do something like that because that's not who Tup is. And then when they finally regroup, his first question is, how's Tup doing? like He said he wanted answers, but instead of asking why or how, the first thing on his mind is whether or not Tup is okay, because that's the kind of person Anakin is.
00:22:45
Speaker
I just like that. Yes. And as Rex and Fives tried to ask Tup what happened, he just keeps repeating that mantra over and over again. Good soldiers follow orders. Good soldiers follow orders. And then he lunges forward shouting, kill the Jedi.
00:23:06
Speaker
And At that point, the plot thickens. My lord, I have received a report that leads me to conclude we may have encountered a grave complication with one of our assets.
00:23:21
Speaker
Assets? Yes, sir. A clone trooper has executed one of the Jedi generals. And you believe this is indicative of our programming?
00:23:31
Speaker
I do, my lord. But I cannot be certain. It is pertinent we ascertain if this is an isolated event. A failure in this particular clone's programming.
00:23:44
Speaker
Otherwise, my plans may be ruined. Seize the clone immediately. Yes, my master.
00:23:56
Speaker
So that's not ominous at all. Nope. It's fine. It's totally fine that the other side has some kind of programming into the co clones. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that everything will be okay.
00:24:10
Speaker
And that flows immediately into this.
Revelation of Clone Programming
00:24:14
Speaker
Flavs, what's happening to me?
00:24:22
Speaker
You don't remember?
00:24:26
Speaker
You murdered General Tiplar. What? Now? That's not possible. would never... I could never... you're dead.
00:24:38
Speaker
don't... I don't understand. could this happen? What's happening to me, Vibes? No! No!
00:24:54
Speaker
What do you think happened? Did you check all of his scans? Well, all of his scans are clear. As far as I can tell, this is a combat-related stress. It seems he's had some sort of breakdown.
00:25:07
Speaker
Kix, he should know better. We were designed to withstand any stress. I agree. We've been through a lot together. He doesn't seem to remember what happened. It's like he's sick or drugged.
00:25:19
Speaker
Well, it could be virus, a a toxin. I can't be certain. Let's talk outside.
00:25:32
Speaker
You mean the enemy could have made him do this? It's a possibility. There have been rumors that Separatists have been trying to develop an anti-clone virus. Biological warfare.
00:25:43
Speaker
Listen, we aren't equipped for this type of situation. You'll have to be taken back to Kamino. Only then will have your answer.
00:25:54
Speaker
I have a lot of feelings about this whole scene, but I'm going to have to bike rack some of them for now because they come into play more later. But, you know, I just top. ah I'm going to try to make this as concise as I can.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah, huh I know. But like. Tep is undergoing probably like the most terrifying experience of his entire fucking life right now. Because, like, you know, what would actually be scarier? A room full of dradegas? Or, like, not being able to trust that the things you know to be real and true are real and true? Like, the dradegas would probably kill you, but at least you could try to, like, fight them or run away or something. Like, what do you do when you can't trust your own memory or senses or reality or, like, anything about yourself?
00:26:35
Speaker
You can't shoot the existential dread of losing your sense of self and agency and autonomy! Not that I have any experience with that or anything. Nope. Dissociation. I don't know here. Oh! And to make it extra horrifying, just think about the implications.
00:26:47
Speaker
The clones already have no rights or official status as, like, sentient beings and a good chunk of the galaxy sees them as nothing more than, like, material for the G.A.R. Like, the only thing they have to separate them from the battle droids is their individual sense of self and autonomy. Like, their ability to think for themselves. And then the chips take all of that away. Like, Fives insist the clones aren't meat clankers at various points, but What does it mean if they can be programmed just like one?
00:27:13
Speaker
Oh, and also, also, just want to mention how horrifying is that whole we were built to withstand any stress thing? Like, you know, just take the clones and bioengineer the trauma and associated life-saving stress responses, just right out of them. Something normal to want and possible to achieve.
00:27:32
Speaker
i mean, I guess it is since the Kaminoans apparently did it. Or do they just tell the clones they did that? So if a clone does exhibit signs of stress and anxiety, it's not because of the whole, you know, everything that's happening, but rather because that clone has something wrong with them and it's clearly just effective and it's an excuse.
00:27:52
Speaker
You know, just just a thought. Honestly, but that's been sort of the thing that I feel like has been ignored about a lot of the Clone Wars stories. and Like, oh, they're engineered to be better. It's like, is that a good thing that they can't process things normally? And especially when we do see posts in canon, we see clones afterwards. They are not all right.
00:28:21
Speaker
No. They are not in the best space. I feel it's because, like, less because that these things, the at best, these supposed, like, conditionings and programming are like are suppressing the initial problems.
00:28:41
Speaker
But again, these are products to the common ones. They are products to the gr They are meant to be disposed of. So we're not at all thinking about, like,
00:28:55
Speaker
all right, what happens after the conflict? h They didn't think about the implications. They didn't think about them. Because it wasn't their purpose. And we'll eventually see, like, honestly, like, for as many people have, like, even I have some issues with with the Obi-Wan series, seeing a clone on the streets begging for,
00:29:23
Speaker
for coins, and clearly going through it, it's like... Almost like what you see when you walk down any big city street with veterans that, you know, don't actually get any help for serving their country? what Who said that?
00:29:36
Speaker
And Nick, weren't weren't that clone's markings part of Obi-Wan's... They were part of the 212th, yes, I think I remember that.
00:29:47
Speaker
They were a 212th member. And the fact that, again, like, they They serve with Obi-Wan. but the Honestly, you could argue like the fact that Obi-Wan is sane so much, but also you could argue that this individual has, to the fact that they are not meant to like survive this long, could not recognize someone that they spent the most formative years with.
00:30:15
Speaker
Meanwhile, Obi-Wan probably knew his name. On sight. Just throwing that out there. Yep. Either way, you know we' we're talking about the fact that like the Clone Wars is ah is a tragedy for all sides.
00:30:33
Speaker
And, you you know, speaking of of foreshadowing, now that I think about it, the the way you're talking, Betsy, and the way you were just now, Nick, that has a lot in common with some subject matter that, Betsy, you and I are going to be tackling later on when we're looking at Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Mm-hmm. The Slayer isn't supposed to pass age 18. Nope.
00:31:05
Speaker
It's almost like there's a common theme to a lot of the media we consume, isn't there? Yep. A lot of quote-unquote child soldiers. I don't want to derail this too much into Buffy talk, but I have recently been on threads. I've been following someone who's watching Buffy and Angel for the first time. And an interesting note, Betsy, yesterday she got to the body.
00:31:30
Speaker
Oh my god. Oh god oh my god. But... yeah I don't want to be part of the of of your of the Buffy cast. i want to be part of the episode. that's well It's one of the most impactful episodes I've ever watched. We're going to be doing a half season at a time.
00:31:53
Speaker
Okay. Well, season one's going to be one because it's shorter. Yeah. But like um if I can bring in so so some notes on that, I would love to. I mean, we're literally cover going to cover Joss Whedon's entire body of work, so... That's why we're doing half a season at a time.
00:32:10
Speaker
Because we also have a lot of other stuff to talk about. Including Firefly and Avengers and all of it. But we'd love to give some of that that bad episode. if But it in all of the discussion of Buffy, one of the things that has kept coming up, it as because there's a lot of us interacting and discussing as she goes as she posts each episode that she's on daily.
00:32:35
Speaker
And um it's like you going back to the episode about her 18th birthday, where they have the Watchers Council has that ritual where they you know drug the Slayer's powers away and lock her in an enclosed space with a vampire.
00:32:53
Speaker
e e as As a quote-unquote test to make sure she has the skills to survive. No, you want the Slayer to die at 18 so you don't have an adult to deal with.
00:33:09
Speaker
he Sounds very ritualistic, almost like some sort of trial, like the Jedi trials. And a lot of people asking, why doesn't the Watcher's Council pay the Slayer like they do her Watcher? Because they because they want the Slayer dependent on her Watcher.
00:33:30
Speaker
See, again, they don't want her to reach adulthood.
00:33:36
Speaker
Nope. Anyway, we'll be discussing that and a whole lot more when we get to those episodes. We'll get there when we get there.
00:33:47
Speaker
But the the Separatists attack the Republic's ships as they're heading back to Kamino. And we get some rather brutal kills. So remember, as always, this is a kids' show.
Intensity of Space Battles
00:33:59
Speaker
Yep. Even though we're now currently on Netflix rather than Cartoon Network, because we're now in the Lost Missions. ah It's remaining consistent in how depicts finally acts just skirting those lines. that Yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
It's for kids. just dead bodies floating around, but it's like, well, I was thinking in particular, it's shot in the face. I was thinking in particular of when the one droid just launches itself at the canopy of the shuttle and just shoot headshots, the pilot through the canopy glass.
00:34:38
Speaker
Oh, I was thinking of when the Buzz droids come in and break the canopy and then he just gets sucked into the vacuum of space with his helmet off so you see his horrified expression as he dies. yeah That too. yeah The vacuum of space is quite deadly.
00:34:51
Speaker
and it It is... It is
00:34:55
Speaker
scurrying that line. It's like... There's no blood. There's no gore. It's like it's just horrific instant death.
00:35:06
Speaker
And... they And they take Tup. My boy! Oh, honestly, these are ricks i fake being I think Lawrence.
00:35:18
Speaker
If Ventress was still on the Separatist scene, this would have been a Ventress mission.
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, probably. If she could have gotten there on time. And of course, it would have been a Savage mission if ah you know he was with Dooku for longer than you know two hours. Yeah.
00:35:37
Speaker
the animity in the right like yeah But this was a surgical like this was a search single strike. Honestly, the most effective strike the Separatists have done in like ever.
00:35:52
Speaker
We've just destroyed.
00:35:55
Speaker
Anakin and Rex confirm that Tup was taken and they decide that means the Separatists must have been responsible for what Tup did. so To quote Tony Stark,
00:36:07
Speaker
well, you're not wrong. They're technically correct. The best kind of correct. Yes. And they...
00:36:18
Speaker
Anakin, Rex, and Fives make their way to the Separatist ship and just be because Betsy requested this clip.
00:36:31
Speaker
Are your scopes Jedi issue, sir? Stay focused, Fives.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have anything to say. I just wanted to include the clip of the dick joke. Be better for your seconds. And yes, those are Jedi. It's who they come with the Jedi.
00:36:49
Speaker
Jedi
00:36:53
Speaker
equip. Leave it to Nick to take it literally.
00:36:58
Speaker
I feel like they're you know are they are they saying something with that or? i don't know. We can ask Pat if she would know. yeah let' see that see that See, that was Anakin's lightsaber.
00:37:11
Speaker
She held the same. She comment on the size of his lightsaber and the size of his macro binoculars. Yes. The hangar is full of droids, so they can't really get in easily. So as the shuttle with Tup takes off, Rex and p wreckx and Fives fire grappling hooks onto the departing shuttle.
00:37:34
Speaker
And Anakin gets a piggyback ride from Rex. Well, honestly, I wanted to say, like, this absurd of a plan and also discussing why they're hanging up outside the hangar bay of an enemy ship was like, even the banter they had was like, well, we believe you could handle that, General Skywalker. We'd probably not see that.
00:38:00
Speaker
But then coming up with a plan to
00:38:04
Speaker
to follow the top subtle was like he is becoming an influence on them very much with unconventional planning and the unique ideas and he lets them do all kinds of unconventional things it's not just his ideas either and he's like cool sounds great let's go because they did it on watching him we learned it by watching you dad he's spreading his weirdness across the world But the fact that they had the moment is like, well, we're pretty sure you can probably handle this situation. it ah Would we survive the situation? said No.
00:38:44
Speaker
And he's like, okay, what what's your alternate situation? because Which implies Anakin was already ready to like, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to fight all those droids.
00:38:58
Speaker
well of course he is! He's Anakin Skywalker! They told him to pick his battles and he decided he was going to pick all of them. Yes. But but his his two his two clone sons were like, hey, we wouldn't survive that.
00:39:11
Speaker
Let's maybe do a do your plan B. Or plan C. Plan...
00:39:19
Speaker
q d Q, wherever it is, where we can all survive. And he's just like, fine, you're right. We'll do it the less fun way.
Anakin's Influence and Strategies
00:39:30
Speaker
i mean, you you say that like what they chose to do wouldn't be fun, too. Oh, I just mean less fun for Anakin because he doesn't get to kill anything yet. He doesn't have to go in there just lightsaber blazing.
00:39:45
Speaker
cause he could know yeah Again, I do love that they're like, yeah, yeah you can do that. I'm not sure we'll survive.
00:39:54
Speaker
You will. They get to fling themselves up onto the little like ship. And again, so I do love that. Oh, I like that because that's fun.
00:40:08
Speaker
I do love that while they are grappling and you know being pulled up to the shuttle, the battle droid pilot notes that they were experiencing some drag, but it cleared up, and the tactical droid is all, you were experiencing drag in the vacuum of space.
00:40:29
Speaker
And then, as Anakin, Rex, and Fives attack inside the shuttle, well, now we're feeling turbulent! Classic battle droid. Again, like battle droid banter is...
00:40:44
Speaker
Peak comedy. They delight me. Yes, yes. And then as they take out the various droids, Anakin tries to interrogate the the the tactical droid.
00:40:58
Speaker
And the tactical droid notes that he is programmed to resist intimidation. At which point Anakin just beheads him, basically. The Skywalker way. Mm-hmm.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yep. I mean, it's the Jedi way, you know, just take off an appendage of some kind. Yeah, ask Obi-Wan. He's dismembered more bodies than anyone else in this series, as far as we know.
00:41:23
Speaker
i learned from watching you, Dad Obi-Wan.
00:41:28
Speaker
So they get Tup back and send him off to Kamino for examination with Rex and Fives in tow. I want a full report from Kamino.
00:41:39
Speaker
If Top is the victim of some Separatist plot, we have no idea of how widespread it already is.
00:41:46
Speaker
Permission to come with you, sir. He's my best friend. You may need help, but everything must be done by the book. Understood, sir. You're to stay by his side at all times.
00:41:58
Speaker
I don't want any more slip-ups. Yes, sir. Good. Let's go.
00:42:05
Speaker
Don't mind me, I'm just over here crying about Fives calling Tup his best friend. And crying over how many of Fives' friends are dead. But it's fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. Insert montage of Fives and Tups being friends.
00:42:22
Speaker
And all their other friends. ah
00:42:28
Speaker
If only they could use the power of friendship. Yes.
00:42:35
Speaker
I'm fine. Yep. I tried to be so make you cry because we still have a couple more. up We were only episode two. is see We, we, that does take us to episode two conspiracy season six, episode two. Wow. Ives uncovers a secret in the Kaminoan cloning facility.
00:42:58
Speaker
a secret not even Master Kenobi could find.
00:43:04
Speaker
So our boys arrive on Kamino where Tup's going to be examined.
00:43:11
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And they want to check on Fives as whatever is affecting Tup may be affecting him too. Uh-huh. You will have to say goodbye to your friend now.
00:43:25
Speaker
Yes, Doctor. General Shakti. Captain Rex. Fives, am I correct? Yes, General. You've served with Toph?
00:43:37
Speaker
Yes. You must come with me. With... with all due respect, General. I can't just abandon him now. You must let the doctors do their work.
00:43:49
Speaker
Do not be afraid. Your friend is in quite capable hands. Dr. Nala Se is the chief medical scientist on Kamino. She was one of the primary engineers of all the clones.
00:44:00
Speaker
Now we must take care of you. There's nothing wrong with me, General. I'm perfectly fine. We can't be sure of that until we've completed a full exam. If a virus was the cause of Tup's breakdown, you have more than likely been exposed to the contagion.
00:44:15
Speaker
You haven't entered the advanced stages yet, as Tup has, but any information we can gather from you could help to find a cure for Tup. All right, General. If it'll help, Top.
00:44:27
Speaker
Captain Rex, General Skywalker has ordered you back to the war zone. You are to leave immediately. I'm sorry, Fives. I wish I could stay, but... Duty calls.
00:44:38
Speaker
It's fine, sir. Fighting a virus is a nice change of pace from all those clankers. Take care yourself.
00:44:46
Speaker
And Top.
00:44:50
Speaker
I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm not fine. But I mean, Shakti gets all the points for knowing fives and Rex's names. Like, it actually makes me think of that headcanon I saw going around like forever ago about Shakti being like the clone's mom, just like how close the clone's dad.
00:45:07
Speaker
But no, like, Fives just looks and sounds so devastated when Shakti says that he has to leave so the medics can actually look at Tup. Like, you can hear the shake that Dee Bradley Baker puts into his lines here and how he's just, like, struggling to keep it together because his best friend is dying and there's nothing he can do about it. And now he can't even stay with him, which is terrifying because what if they can't help him and this is a permanent goodbye, but he's on Camino in front of a general and surrounded by the people who engineered him to... What was it again? withstand any stress because he's certainly not withstanding any of this shit right now but also he's gotta be brave for Tup and I just... Ah!
Emotional Toll of Losing Troopers
00:45:45
Speaker
But also I can't help but wonder theyre like is there any anxiety around showing like a level of quote unquote weakness in front of the Kaminoans, especially Nalase because if he can't handle this on an emotional level, that must mean he's defective, right? Because like sha t said he he like what Shakti said he had to leave, he protested when not even 30 seconds ago Nalase said it's time to say goodbye to your friend and he immediately acquiesced like, I don't know, it's just something I was thinking about Basically I just have to say like
00:46:20
Speaker
Nala Se. How do you feel about Nala Se? Oh, I will tell you later that I want to throw things at her.
00:46:29
Speaker
i have a red later. We'll get there when we get there. We will get there. Oh, that's spoilers. Spoilers. No, but that, like, you know, they take fives into one room and, like, they're looking over and trying to figure out what's wrong and they take Tup into the other room.
00:46:47
Speaker
We're not there. Yes, we are. i mean I didn't mean to trigger you. You yeah you have one more line. Yeah, I know. I'm getting there. I'm getting there.
00:46:58
Speaker
Because, you know, they like strapped up onto the table and they're like, okay, let's figure out what's wrong with him. And to do that, they literally just give him the Pulp Fiction treatment. Prank color. Prank color.
00:47:10
Speaker
know That one? shove Yeah, that one. And, you know, also just like shove the syringe right in the heart. oh yeah and so they scan him oh uh oh yeah i it didn't have enough feet that's why i didn't recognize oh of course of course yeah i needed more feet always so they although you know it's kind of funny that we reference that uh that scene from pulp fiction while we're talking about star wars because uh the in that scene the quote girl with all the shit in her face unquote was the was the pilot of the republic cruiser at the beginning of phantom menace
00:47:56
Speaker
it all comes around it's like poetry Yeah, it is. Again, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme.
00:48:07
Speaker
So they scant up and they don't find any trace of a
Kaminoans' Indifference vs. Jedi Investment
00:48:10
Speaker
virus. But as he comes to, he sees Shakti and he starts talking about killing Jedi and orders again. So Shakti wonders if the separatists have brainwashed him and they sedate him again.
00:48:24
Speaker
Well, you know, Fives is trapped on the other side of the glass that she then closes so we can't actually see what's happening with this friend. Yeah, no, that is kind of an interesting point, is that um Fives sees his friend seizuring about all of these tests that they're doing on him, and it seems like he isn't aware of what they're doing. Like, the clones don't even know what the Kaminoans do to, like, get information out of them, basically.
00:48:49
Speaker
Above their pay grade. They don't need to know. yeah but It's basically the fact that the common ones consider them products. And they are basically just doing product testing right now. like Your cell phone doesn't need to know what was done to test my cell phone.
00:49:07
Speaker
Just the fact that it could see the other side is like, and didn't. Oh, The cell phones what was happening to the other cell phones, like and it's having a reaction to it.
00:49:19
Speaker
It doesn't have to seem bad. And besides, you know if the clones knew what was going on with all the tests and stuff, then the Kaminoans couldn't weaponize their ignorance to do whatever they wanted. It is a little bit odd, though. It's all by design. With that in mind, it's still little bit odd, though, that they didn't tint his window in the first place. If they're not supposed... Like, if they are actively not supposed to know, it feels like she would have tinted his window initially. But it almost seems like they're kind of apathetic to the clones having this knowledge, which kind of implies that they may be...
00:49:53
Speaker
it maybe should be known in like a general sense. Like this shouldn't be that surprising to him. It's kind of a, if they're apathetic to it, then this shouldn't be that much of a surprise to fives. If they actively keep it a secret, then they should have tended his window. Initially. There's just a, there's a weird situation going on there.
00:50:13
Speaker
Well, it it was an afterthought. Oh, this we're doing this really disturbing stuff and oh yeah, he's on the other side, isn't he? Yeah, okay, let's let's remedy that.
00:50:24
Speaker
Also specifically with Shaak Ti that closed the blinds, Nala Se couldn't give a shit. Yeah. It's more the fact that the idea is the fact that the clones are, again, products. the the the The common ones could care less if they see like, oh,
00:50:44
Speaker
There could be a full-on autopsy on the other side of the room. They would not expect them to have like a reaction. It's like, oh, why are you having a reaction? We're just taking a part. designed you not to react.
00:50:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's honestly a fact that that they are very human beings. Yeah. that have been experienced, especially with the Jedi, who have so compassionate and selflessness to them, has given them something they can't understand.
00:51:21
Speaker
like You usually just be like yeah a blank. Why are you reacting here? That's the weirdest of it.
00:51:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's just... ah You know, it's it's one of those things where um it feels like with that sort of mindset, the clones would probably know that this is a thing that happens to them.
00:51:49
Speaker
You know, if if they if the Kaminoans are apathetic to what the clones think about it and they aren't actively hiding this fact from them, then Fives probably shouldn't be this surprised about it.
00:52:04
Speaker
Except now that we've got the whole thing where it might be an evil separatist plot with some kind of mind control thing, which throws a whole new spanner in the mix. And the they haven't had to do this sort of deep dive. Whenever there's a deviant clone, it's like, oh, we got it disposable.
00:52:29
Speaker
Yes. Yes.
00:52:33
Speaker
And they haven't had to do that sort deep dive diagnostic so far to date. so Because usually if they would need to, they never would have decanted the co clone embryo in the first place. They would have just disposed of them.
00:52:48
Speaker
I see. Recycled them probably for genetic material.
00:52:53
Speaker
Something that the Kaminoans also do to their own kids, by the way. Don't worry about it. It's fine. Don't worry about the eugenics thing they got going on. Oh, yeah, yeah. of course. actually i don't know if that's still canon anymore, but it very much is a eugenics thing based on eye color. It's kind of horrifying.
00:53:05
Speaker
Oh, no. Oh, no. It's it' still canon. like There are no actual, like, like actually like natural-born cowboys.
00:53:17
Speaker
They are all clones of several different well-developed and well-maintained genealogies. But is the thing where they kill the like new clone babies that have the wrong eye color still canon?
00:53:34
Speaker
That isn't considered canon, but it has been not made uncannon. Great! I love that! i love that so much!
00:53:45
Speaker
Well, back to my son! Anyway!
00:53:50
Speaker
The common ones are still bastards. Horrible bastards. Let me just talk about my son for a while.
Fives Advocates for Tup
00:53:58
Speaker
Cause you know, after that horrifying display, he's hanging out in his room with the med droid who has a long name, but I'm just going to call him AZ because you know, that's just what he's called from now on or AZ three, depending on who you ask. But I've just, without a hint of irony or self-awareness, he looks at AZ and tells him like, you're just a droid. You don't understand brotherhood or duty or the true meaning of friendship because AZ won't let him break quarantine to go see Tup. And like, I love my son, but let's be real, Echo was always the one that was holding the brain cell and Fives never got it back.
00:54:31
Speaker
But AZ's like, sorry, I always wanted to have human feelings, but I don't, okay, by Was just sending me. oh yeah yeah That was just beautiful. That is the funniest moment.
00:54:43
Speaker
Also, I do love the idea that Az is like, is like, is like, Fives calling it like an asshole. Mm-hmm.
00:54:55
Speaker
ah You're an ass, ass.
00:55:00
Speaker
But AZ goes back to Top and they're like, you know, what's wrong? And Shakti's like, so it's not a virus or psychosis. So like, what the fuck is happening? And AZ's like, oh, you know what? I bet an advanced atomic gra brain scan would tell us. Let's do that.
00:55:13
Speaker
And then Nala's day is over here visibly sweating like, uh, nope, sorry, no can do because, uh, the brain scan would be too much for him. Yeah, that's it. And, uh,
00:55:26
Speaker
Oh, you know, we already did those other scans, and you know, those are fine. i know, we can kill him and dissect him. And by we, I mean me, by myself, alone, where none of you can see me pull me pull that chip out of his brain. what Who said that?
00:55:41
Speaker
But I also feel like, the I will say, like, in a topic, brain sounds really cool, and honestly, I probably could have benefited. I think everyone could have benefited from that. That sounds really neat.
00:55:55
Speaker
but I don't know if anyone wants to see what my brain would look like if they scanned it. Yeah, i nobody wants to see mine. Neither do I, but I was like, maybe they'll figure something out. the gal I'm sure that mine would be considered quite fascinating. The same thing is like, at at least, at least, again, even if it's the fact that I will perish, it's like, at least someone will learn something about that. I'm pretty sure there's something in there.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yeah, they'd scan mine and they would just have more questions than they started with. Yes, AZ goes and checks up on Fives again and continues using Fives' number rather than, well, he continues using the numbers rather than the names in general, at which point Fives and AZ start talking about the matters of clone numbers and droid numbers. The rejection of mass production or further production in general that the clones do in taking on their own names versus the acceptance of it that droids tend to do.
00:56:54
Speaker
And yeah, it's just ah an interesting cultural divergence between these two groups when... Fascinating identity and who's of self.
00:57:07
Speaker
And it's... ah and Especially when they are quite, quite similar. They are both... manufactured products yeah yes yes droids in Star Wars definitely seem to be people by any substantial definition so this does seem to be really a cultural difference ultimately between the two groups it's almost like there's a level of hypocrisy in how certain groups are treated at the Star War well Nothing you know that has any like implications.
00:57:41
Speaker
You're implying that there's something cultural about the Star Wars? This is purely divorced from all reality and no one gets it. This is absolutely cultural, but don't worry, I'm not implying there's anything political. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's not like they're demonstrating the fact that, you know, marginalized individuals can still have power over even further marginalized individuals.
00:58:07
Speaker
No, not at all. Oh. hey hey Because this is just a story about space wizards with laser swords made for children. Yeah, if you want to keep the Star Wars apolitical, whoever's listening to this may want to leave now while they still can.
00:58:27
Speaker
Because I get into it later! so they not that then of that we We don't have the spoilers tag, but it's like, spoilers, yeah, she's going gotta to get into it.
00:58:39
Speaker
Via the concept of intersectionality, we can safely say that the concept of clone rights is directly correlated with the concept of droid rights. What? like all our grievances are connected. Again, it's like poetry, so that they rhyme.
00:58:54
Speaker
It sounds like the fact that this clone war is actually like a war between two individuals who are actually more huh or similar than they are different. We're not so different, you and I, et etc., e etc.
Inhibitor Chip Conspiracy
00:59:10
Speaker
So Nala Se goes to Lama Su and lays right out that it appears to be a premature activation of Clone Order 66. Clone Protocol 66. Yes. Um, actually...
00:59:27
Speaker
ah still didn't he still didn't do the right voice. He didn't... Um, actually... So Lama Su decides that they need to contact Lord Tyrannus.
00:59:39
Speaker
And they do.
00:59:43
Speaker
I've been expecting your transmission. I have heard of the malfunctioning clone. How widespread is the problem? It seems to be an isolated incident.
00:59:54
Speaker
However, this is a delicate situation. We need to terminate the clone as soon as possible in order to extract and analyze the inhibitor chip that you provided to us.
01:00:08
Speaker
Very good. Terminate the clone immediately. However, send the chip to me for analysis. And what if the Jedi ask for the chip and the results of the autopsy?
01:00:21
Speaker
You must remember, the chip is a safeguard against betrayal from rogue Jedi. Master Sifo Dias was the only Jedi who knew of this. But with his passing, we alone know of this secret.
01:00:36
Speaker
And you must keep it that way. Yes, Lord Tyrannus. These Jedi are a curious cult. Too spiritual for my taste.
01:00:48
Speaker
I will terminate the clone immediately.
01:00:53
Speaker
So we get a little bit of a lore reveal here that we'll go over when we're done with all of the episodes for this so episode.
01:01:04
Speaker
Yeah. Wait a minute. Wasn't the man Jango met on the fourth moon of Bogdan to become the prime clone for the clone army commissioned by the Jedi Master Syphrodesis?
01:01:22
Speaker
for the Republic, also said that he contacted a man named Tyrannus. Yeah. I'm sure there's no relation.
01:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, no doubt. I'm just saying, like... Coinkydink, that's all. and always It's always like... ah if any Phantom Menace! Or some sort of reasonable like detective could have like solved this easily.
01:01:50
Speaker
easily If only we had Columbo in the Star War. Yep. Just one more thing. And then that's when he forced lightnings the guy. Columbo would use electric judgment. Yes, he would.
01:02:03
Speaker
So...
01:02:07
Speaker
So, Shocker... He would. he would he he He'd be already in contact with like the Elder Gods. is like he He'd be like, already saw that. I mean, he'd meet Plo Koon and Plo would be like, hey, want to learn neat trick? Yeah.
01:02:19
Speaker
He top-lo-cuned that trick. Oh yeah, there we go. Columbo top-lo-cuned how to do the electric judgment. Except in Star Wars, he would be Columbo. That's true. You need some apostrophes in there, too. you know He taught Columbo that and man is token.
01:02:38
Speaker
he would so column He would be Column-Bow. Yeah, that's that's what i was trying to convey. He taught a lot. But with apostrophes and extra vowels, too. Yep. Met Ahsoka Tano, and also his wife is is the but the mother. is like That's how I know everything.
01:03:02
Speaker
So Shakti contacts the Jedi Council and we get a little background to explain why it's so easy for them to believe that there's a virus or brainwashing involved here.
01:03:13
Speaker
During the battle prior to the beginning of the last episode, Tup went missing for a few days and returned shortly before he broke and killed the Jedi.
01:03:27
Speaker
So ze giant two it's convenient, but there's a reason why they're not just going like, okay, something really shady is going on here. Like, okay, this could have happened then.
01:03:40
Speaker
i'll I'll give them credit for that. and Tiny bit of credit. Yeah. The council orders Tup brought to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant so they can examine him instead of either course of action on Kamino.
01:03:56
Speaker
instead of either killing him and dissecting him, or the atomic brain scan.
01:04:02
Speaker
And so about that point back on Kamino, Fives pulls a Captain Kirk on AZ. I know it's the wrong franchise. But if it's... um He plays on AZ's computerized logic to get him to agree to perform the brain scan that Nala Se denied because shady.
01:04:23
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It is a massive, like, that is a multi-step, like, check to make to make this ah this medical droid completely, completely, like, loses the plot. What do you mean? That was exactly what his programming was designed for. Yeah.
01:04:50
Speaker
He didn't do anything wrong. Yep, he like I said, he Kirk'd it. He made it use its own logic against it. It was honestly more of a computer's check than a charisma check. Yeah.
01:05:01
Speaker
But he was using the computer's charisma to overify, like, just straight up hacking it. He basically rules-layered him. Yep.
01:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like rules-layering a robot into doing something that you want is is still a computer sort of thing.
01:05:20
Speaker
I mean, as a g bag i would as a GM, I would say make your case for which skill you want to use. i so I guess if you're going more like Hacker Man route versus like, you know, just regular Captain Kirk route.
01:05:34
Speaker
Personally, because I believe that droids have their own sort of sentience, they have degree to have their elastic be changed.
01:05:48
Speaker
That's how it is. would use it rather than like if you're just like jacking it and like hacking it up.
01:05:58
Speaker
And so AZ performs the scan and finds what appears to be tumor. It's not a tumor. It's not a tumor at all. I made a joke.
01:06:13
Speaker
Yeah. It's from a movie. It's from movie. Sorry. Wait, I've seen this one before. It's a classic.
01:06:22
Speaker
I mean, that one just had to be done. As soon as they kept calling it a tumor, I was like, he's not a tumor. Explain the joke to Lauren.
01:06:36
Speaker
I mean, it's Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't think I need a further explanation. Yeah. Yeah, it's... yeah he's basically good boby he's ah He's got the accent. He's doing it.
01:06:48
Speaker
but yeah So while while that's going on, Fives drops some instruments on the floor that draws Nala Se's attention. And he hides as AZ z makes his case for running the scan. And she totally gaslights him regarding the tumor.
01:07:11
Speaker
It's Zara Tuba. I can't believe it. They're gonna kill him. In a case like this, it is the logical course of action. No, no. We were not created to be disposed of this way.
01:07:23
Speaker
Perhaps you were. CT5385 will be terminated so that others like him could survive. There aren't others like him. Tup doesn't have to die.
01:07:36
Speaker
You found a tumor. I'm sure that's the cause of all this. It's the only thing that makes sense. But how can we proceed? Do your biopsy. I'm sure what you find will prove Tup does not have to die. But Nala Se does not believe... We're not going to Nala Se with whatever you find.
01:07:53
Speaker
We'll go to the general, to Shakti. She helped me once as a cadet. I know she values the life of a clone. But we will be disobeying direct orders. Yup, for the second time today.
01:08:06
Speaker
Can you hack into the medical center's mainframe? I do possess that ability, yes. Alright. Well, here's what you need to do.
01:08:16
Speaker
So, Fives, how's that withstanding any stress going? Because I know I wasn't the only one that heard him trying to stifle that sob. I know I wasn't the only one who heard that.
01:08:30
Speaker
Like, I know it's only a personal headcanon, but I'm, like, ready to fully believe that the whole, like, inability to have an emotional breakdown thing is total bullshit that the camera no one's made up to keep the clones from behaving too much like people. You know, like, force forbid they ship a defective product. What would GFSA Consumer Reports say?
01:08:50
Speaker
aren't the first.
01:08:52
Speaker
ah But no, like, as much as Five's ah always known, like, where the galaxy stands on clones, I feel like, in a way, it's kind of, like, forgotten just how disposable so many things they are. i mean, like, yes, that dehumanization has always existed for him on, like, an institutional level, but I feel like this is different because it's on, like, such a personal level. Like, Nolese really said that Tup is more valuable dead than alive. and that clones are just as disposable as droids. And while she was talking about AZ at the time, like, you know Fives heard the part that she didn't say, that he and Tup are no different from the clinkers that the two of them shoot down every day. Like, that they matter just as little, and they're more like droids than sentient beings.
01:09:34
Speaker
Oh, hey, ah remember how droids can't possibly understand things like brotherhood and duty? Yeah, I think Fives is rethinking that whole part.
01:09:46
Speaker
Yep. And so AZ triggers a false intruder alert that cominened confines everyone to safe areas so AZ can remove the tumor.
Fives' Desperate Measures
01:09:59
Speaker
Tumor! The clone guards discover it was triggered from the medical bay and Shakti immediately understands that Fives is responsible.
01:10:10
Speaker
And Malisei enters and tries to wrestle the sample away, but What have you done? We've saved my friend's life.
01:10:21
Speaker
This tumor is the cause of his illness. Give me that! You can't be trusted.
01:10:30
Speaker
Stand down, Trooper. General, I have evidence. It's right here.
01:10:37
Speaker
the mission. Free... the mission. What is he saying? Brother... What mission? You... You know the one.
01:10:51
Speaker
The mission. The one in our dreams. That never ends. The one in our dreams.
01:11:07
Speaker
This is the end. Forget the mission.
01:11:13
Speaker
Oh, the nightmare. I'm... free.
01:11:19
Speaker
No. No. I thought saved him.
01:11:30
Speaker
I'd make a snarky, off-color joke about a certain song by the Frey,
01:11:41
Speaker
Our good but friend Betsy has something to say. Stop! Why, Filoni, why do you insist on killing all these very good boys?
01:11:54
Speaker
Like, Fives tried so hard and he did everything he could to save his brother, his best friend, but it wasn't enough. And, like, even worse, there's this possibility, like, you know, at least in his mind, that he could have saved Tup if he'd helped him sooner. Because, like, Tup didn't die from having the tumor removed. His death was this slow decline, like a deterioration that gradually snapped the light from him. Like, maybe if Fives hadn't stayed behind and let Tup go to that transport all alone, or if they rescued Tup from the Separatists sooner, if he'd refused to go into quarantine and insist on staying by Tup's side, then, like, maybe his friend would still be alive. Like, it's a guilt that you know is just gonna slowly eat at him over time.
01:12:34
Speaker
But, like, can we also talk about Tup's last words? Like, He knows he's dying, but he doesn't really lament that fact. Like, honestly, not really in the slightest. Like, instead he tells Fives, I'm free, which has some seriously horrifying implications.
01:12:49
Speaker
Like, the clones were literally built for war, with, like, fighting as their sole purpose, and as it stands, there's no end to that in sight. You know, unless they die. And, like, yeah, the war could end, and with it, the need to, like, literally fight... But then Tup talks about the endless mission in their dreams. Like, even if every single clone were to drop everything and stop fighting right that second, they still wouldn't be free. Because even if they're no longer on the bla on the battlefield holding a blaster, their minds are still not their own. Like, this might be a spoiler, but, you know, we're going to find out, like, well, not even three, it's like two episodes that the dream mission Tup talked about, like, is a very real thing. Like, I mean, it is a dream, but it's not, like, something unique to Tup. Like, he meant it when he referred to it as the mission in our dreams. Because Fives has them too.
01:13:39
Speaker
All of them do. It seems like even in sleep, they can't rest. And, you know, honestly, it kind of makes me wonder about Cut. Like, this, he, we met him a while ago, but, you know, he deserted, and he has a farm, and a family, and a decent civilian life, but if He also has the same dreams every night. Like, what does that mean for his escape?
01:14:00
Speaker
Like, we don't really ever get to explore it, but, you know, I just have to wonder how, like, running from the G.A.R. r in the war only to find him back there every time he closes his eyes affects him. What does that say about every other clone who might want to build their own life someday?
01:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, you know, whatever whenever Tup talks about the mission in our dreams, I had a slightly different interpretation, a little bit less metaphorical and a little bit more literal.
01:14:26
Speaker
where you know he he just had a controlling element removed from his mind, and while it certainly doesn't seem to have any active impact on their thoughts and actions, until a specific moment anyway, ah this gave off the impression that it still had some kind of subconscious effect on their minds, perhaps giving them visions, dreams, nightmares of...
01:14:47
Speaker
the particular orders that the Kaminoans talked about giving them, and elements of that coding seeping slightly into their minds, even when not active, preparing them for what they'd have to do someday.
01:15:02
Speaker
However, with the chip removed, he was literally freed from that subconscious influence at the very end. And in particular with the chip malfunctioning, that subconscious influence had become a more conscious influence at that time anyway. So having it removed probably did actively affect how his mind was operating in his last moments.
01:15:27
Speaker
But I thinking, like, all of them have that chip in their head, though, right now, so all of them are still experiencing that. Like, I also think that the dreams are a very literal thing in the fact that it's what they experience when they close their eyes, like, you know, subconsciously or otherwise. And, like, I mentioned should Cut, but when Cup you know deserted, he didn't have his chip removed because no one knew it even existed.
01:15:49
Speaker
and like Notably, here I would like to explore, but i would say, like, specifically what do you said about Top ah ah Lauren. hes like Yeah, it's very much the case of, like, and again, this is a... We will find out that Chip is...
01:16:12
Speaker
is malfunctioning, but it is. So those bled more into the mind and created a psychosis. A problem that they could not have.
01:16:26
Speaker
It's like, it's still in there.
01:16:31
Speaker
It's just fascinating to see how how this instance happened. Yes. And notably, Tup's last words are telling ah Fives to to let go of the mission, which we'll we'll see if he does.
01:16:54
Speaker
don't know you can see me right now, but I'm making a face. oh We can't. You know what it looks like. You've seen it before. I've seen i've seen the messy face.
01:17:05
Speaker
Yes. Yep, and so Shakti and Nalase report to Chancellor Palpatine, and instead of the Jedi Temple, Palpatine suggests that the best course of action is to send the tumor to the Grand Medical Facility on Coruscant for examination, and they agree.
01:17:29
Speaker
And we close on a not sinister-at-all-looking Palpatine. Oh, why what are you saying about it? He's a supreme chancellor. He looks sinister. I said not sinister at all.
01:17:43
Speaker
ah That's true. You did say it. That's true. What part of not at all was you know unclear to you? All of it. Apparently so. Oh, no, I was answering your question.
01:17:56
Speaker
Oh, okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. um Episode three.
01:18:03
Speaker
That takes us into episode three, Fugitive, season six. Episode three. Fives uncovers construct in the brains of all clone troopers.
01:18:17
Speaker
um But excuse me, like, how dare they decide to arrest my son like that? I'll have you all know that Fives has never done anything wrong in his life. Thank you very much. He has never done anything wrong in his life. A war crime. Never done anything wrong in his life. Stop while you're ahead, Nick.
01:18:37
Speaker
Betsy knows where you live. It's true. And I know where the squirrels are. Oh, she does. So let's let's take a listen here. i will I'll end. You're right. Correct.
01:18:51
Speaker
Let's take a listen here. Perhaps we would know more if this clone had not taken matters into his own hands. Listen, I was trying to save my friend. And yet, perhaps by removing this tumor, and it was you who killed him. What do you care?
01:19:07
Speaker
You are going to kill him anyway and dissect him too. He's a soldier. He deserves better. Stand down, Fives. Doctor, there is no proof of your claim.
01:19:21
Speaker
I want this specimen and all the data prepared for transit to the Jedi Temple. The Chancellor said the tumor and data was to be sent directly to the medical facility on Coruscant, not the Jedi Temple.
Shakti's Protective Stance Toward Clones
01:19:35
Speaker
And it will get there. But after the Jedi have run an analysis on it first... I protest. I must personally deliver the tumor to the Chancellor as ordered. You can protest all you want.
01:19:48
Speaker
My word is final.
01:19:57
Speaker
You have one more physical to pass. If you are cleared, you will be sent back to the 501st. Uh,
01:20:05
Speaker
ah fuck yeah, Tup deserves better. and also, how dare you try to blame my son for Tup's death? Excuse you. And to prey on his survivor's guilt like that? Yeah, yeah, how very dare.
01:20:17
Speaker
But like, seriously, just Nellissé continues to say with her whole chest just how little she values the clones as anything but a material asset. Oh no. Hey, remember how I told you guys earlier to stop me from going on a Marxist analysis of this children's cartoon?
01:20:31
Speaker
Yeah, my brain brought it back because all I can think about is how the Kim and Owens treatment of the co clones represents the worst excesses of late-stage capitalism, but now with corporatized slavery.
01:20:44
Speaker
oh boy. How it? How is it? How is it? creep into and a fortenso and so analysis of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic. If you're gonna do your irkov doing your cap your Marxist interpretations of things here. oh you're right, you're right. Okay, we don't have time for that. you know yeah at least Not unless we want to be here for another hour. We'll ah wellll we'll get to the Marxism in My Little Pony Season 5.
01:21:14
Speaker
Also, like I don't have time to figure out which box the books I need are in because there's a lot of boxes over here. So, instead, back to just my son and how Nala Se is being super mean to him, but also kind of obliquely touching on capitalism because I'm incapable of doing otherwise. Like, a fucking course our first movie's a shift, I'll blame onto fives as if it's all his fault that Teb died. You know never mind that she was gonna fucking dissect him. Like, she's going all in on the deflection and obfuscation to Peyton Fives' like, I don't know, unhinged murder or whatever. When she was going to, you know, euthanize from the get-go.
01:21:52
Speaker
And all in an effort to discredit him and cover up the real threat. Because, like, the thing is, none of her actions, or at least the vast majority of them, like, they're not in service of helping Papa Palpatine's evil scheme because...
01:22:06
Speaker
Honestly, I feel like at the end the day, she and Lama Su and everyone else at the cloning facility couldn't give less of a shit about his whole take over the galaxy deal. I mean, hell, she's not even necessarily trying all that hard to protect herself. I mean, not that she really needs to right now anyway, because she's kind of indispensable. But it's like everything she's doing is about protecting the corporate interest of Kamino's cloning industry. And it just so happens that Palpy is the one giving them money.
01:22:29
Speaker
Like, you can't tell me that if the Republic suddenly had the credits to outbid him, the Kaminoans wouldn't immediately jump ship. And like, I mean, yeah, she's also super into science, but, you know. Once again, rep was referencing the capitalist isopia nightmare, like, she depends on private interests to get the money to do the science, therefore her science serves those interests entirely.
01:22:50
Speaker
Who needs ethics? We can get more credits, right? You know, not that any of that is relevant to anything going on in the real world right now. I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, no, not at all. Nope, nothing. Nothing at all. It's almost like a... Oh, wait, it's not a metaphor, because this is a galaxy far, far away...
01:23:39
Speaker
More props to Shakti because she's still planning to send the tumor to the Jedi temple instead of the medical facility despite Nalase's protests.
01:23:51
Speaker
Yay, Shakti! But yeah, Fives gets to have one more physical and if he passes, he'll be sent back to the 501st. On the front line!
01:24:03
Speaker
Sure he will! Honestly, my biggest problem was like, this silly you'll be sent back to the front lines. Don't you mean the battle front?
01:24:14
Speaker
I mean, joke's on her because if they send it to the front lines, she's going be fucking fine. Yep. But worth noting is as they're having this conversation, droid that's prepping the specimen case to take the m tumor back to Coruscant swaps it out for an empty case.
Intrigue of Specimen Switch
01:24:38
Speaker
here It is a classic case. It is a classic case of animation. and in like One case is more it' for like ah has better lighting than the other. tell which one is the key item.
01:24:56
Speaker
Yeah. If this were a video game, there would be something behind this wall. This is the one you can interact with. Yep. Again, it is a fun case that they actually did use that as like, oh, as the audience would recognize, that's the actual case, not not the fake case.
01:25:17
Speaker
It's the one brick on the wall that has an actual texture. Yes. Well, we also see it close the empty case and pick it up. so um So, in the hall, Fives runs into a familiar face...
01:25:35
Speaker
Izzy 3. Hello, ARC Trooper five I regret that we were unable to heal your friend. Yeah, me too. Are you going to be reprogrammed as well? Nah, Izzy, I'm going back to the front.
01:25:51
Speaker
That is not what I heard. i heard your mind was going to be wiped, and that you would be reassigned here and placed on sanitation detail. We can still be friends, assuming we both remember each other after our memories have been erased.
Admiration for Fives and His Individuality
01:26:07
Speaker
Now, Betsy, before before you go into your notes here, I just want to say that I love ARC Trooper 5. Yes. It's beautiful.
01:26:19
Speaker
Because you know going back to their whole interaction when he's like, 5 is the number. No, but my name isn't 5. It's 5s. And there's him acknowledging 5s, especially in this case that AZ is going to be potentially mind-wise, which is regular for Troids. So like, even in that moment, it's like, hey, I'm going acknowledge who you are and hopefully we'll remember each other.
01:26:48
Speaker
Maybe. Possibly. Mm-hmm. Easy's making an effort. Yep. He really is. And in the fact that he recognizes the fact that he will not remember the effort. He he may not be even the same person.
01:27:05
Speaker
And it's like, you know, it as a droid, maybe it doesn't like really make all that much sense to him, but it's like, okay, well, it's important to Fives, therefore, I'm going to use the name that he wants because it matters to him.
01:27:17
Speaker
Because that's the only thing that's important here. It doesn't matter if I understand it or not. And your paragraph. Yes. Yes. Yeah, because honestly, like, before I start yelling, which I will, because you know me, like, can we also just talk about five degrees? It is the first is the first first sentence.
01:27:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But, like, can we talk about, like, Fives greeting AZ like a friend and just, like, talking to him like an evil? Like, he's the one that initiated their conversation. And he recognized AZ specifically on site, despite, you know, there being a whole bunch of other identical medical droids all throughout the facility. Like, look at that growth. I'm so proud of him.
01:28:00
Speaker
He's learning intersectionality. He is! Again, his whole entire life has been fighting droids. drit And has been calling them the C word.
01:28:17
Speaker
No, one we're not talking about cunches, clinkers. Don't worry
01:28:23
Speaker
worry. No, just look at him. ah Maybe Echo didn't fully let go. Maybe Echo didn't fully keep the brain cell this whole time. Maybe there's hope yet. Oh, ah anyway, like, back to yelling.
01:28:35
Speaker
They want to fucking mind wipe my son! Like, okay, putting aside the horror that mind wipes are just apparently standard procedure for clones who know too much, you know? Or maybe that's how they make sure the clones withstand any stress, you know? Just wipe away the trauma-internal sunshine style. Because, like, you can't have PTSD if there's nothing to stress about in post, eh?
01:28:57
Speaker
Sorry, back on track. They want to mind wipe my son and reassign him to sanitation on Kamino? Like, Think of how much they would have to erase to accomplish that. Like, how many memories, how much of who Fives is. Because if they just, like, you know, take away the single event, you're still going to remember that he's an ARC Trooper with the 501st. Like, no way he's just going to quietly accept reassignment. No, they'll need to wipe away everything.
01:29:21
Speaker
Like, his time with the Dominoes, joining the 501st, becoming an ARC Trooper... Everybody that he fought with, you know, Echo, Rex, Tup, Jesse, Kix, Hardcase, Heavy, Droidbait, Cutup, 99, Dogma, probably even some of the 212 and most of his memories of the Disaster Lineage 2. Like, everything that makes 5s 5s wouldn't be gone, and he'd just be left an empty shell that does whatever he's told because he knows nothing else.
01:29:47
Speaker
You know, just like what the control chip would do to him. Too bad he kicks ass and takes down an entire detail on Ard because he's that fucking good. Kick their asses, baby, I'll hold your bucket.
01:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, and so Fives and AZ escape capture, get the tumor, and then take off from the city in and yeah in an escape pod. Yes, yes, they have an orb escape. Because the escape pods look like orbs. And we know you love your orbs. Yes, yes, I do in fact love the orbs.
01:30:19
Speaker
Is the orb space worthy? Probably not. Probably not. I think it would be cool if it were. I mean, I'm sure it's watertight. It's probably designed to just get them out from the city into the water to be recovered.
01:30:38
Speaker
I mean, ideally everything on Camino would be watertight. Otherwise, they're going to have problems. Severe problems. Very much so. But Fives dumps that escape pod as a diversion, and AZ shows that he can turn into sort of a cute little scooter, which I'm sure that you loved, Lauren.
01:30:56
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes. The droid jet ski was lovely.
01:31:01
Speaker
i I knew that you would love that. It's like, oh, look, look, it's a little little transforming, you know, scooter droid. The droid gets to do a thing. It's so cool. It's so cool.
01:31:13
Speaker
And Fives just looks so impressed too when AZ does it. He's like, whoa, you could do that? This is awesome.
Analyzing the Tumor and Questions Arise
01:31:18
Speaker
I love the part of the transformation. AZ goes underwater and does that.
01:31:28
Speaker
He's got the frowning voices despite the fact that doesn't need to breathe. Yeah. yeah So Nala Se calls Tyrannus to let him know about the escape, and he's adamant that the Jedi not learn the true nature of the inhibitor chip.
01:31:48
Speaker
Yes, yes. In particular, Tyrannus is worried about how Fives is behaving out of line when their programming should prevent such outbursts. Nala Se notes, Jedi-inspired creative thinking in the clones.
01:32:04
Speaker
He learned it from watching you. Jedi was he with this whole time? Oh, fuck. Again, it is still all goes back to your the disaster lineage.
01:32:16
Speaker
They learned it Obi-Wan and Ahsoka, too. and it goes back to the thing that Yoda talked about back in the first episode.
01:32:31
Speaker
They are individual beings in the ports. They have their own identities. So Fives and AZ get back into the city to analyze the tumor and go to the Hall of Genetic Records where they compare it to Jango Fett's DNA. Not only does it not match, but it's not entirely organic.
01:32:53
Speaker
It was implanted.
01:32:57
Speaker
you get all the information you needed? Mostly. We know that the tumor is a foreign material and was implanted for an unknown reason. However, there is still so much we do not know about it.
01:33:08
Speaker
For example, at what stage was it introduced to Clone Top? And why? What is this thing? would someone put it in Top? I believe this is an organic chip built out of cells.
01:33:22
Speaker
But what's for? I do not know.
01:33:32
Speaker
Thanks. I need to find out if what was in Tup's head is in mine.
Speculation on the Force and Clones
01:33:36
Speaker
We have already done a scan and... But it was missed in Tup, and it could have been missed in me too. You have to take it out.
01:33:43
Speaker
We cannot be 100% sure if the chip is even there. know it's there. is a dangerous surgery.
01:33:54
Speaker
Look, you got it out of Tup. You can get it out of me. He died after I removed the chip. Maybe it is connected. You may die too.
01:34:06
Speaker
It's a chance I have to take. I trust you.
01:34:12
Speaker
All right. I will do it. Let us go to a sterile facility.
01:34:19
Speaker
Don't mind me. I'm just having feelings about Five telling AZ in the most earnest voice, I trust you. Yeah. But this is back to the fact that we even acknowledged Literally, in terms of like watching the Clone Wars, the first episode was the Yoda episode with clone troopers and talking about that they are individuals in the Force.
01:34:44
Speaker
I feel that this is a moment of the Force speaking in a co clone trooper. Mm-hmm.
01:34:54
Speaker
Recognizing that... Again, clone troopers don't believe o nor have any sort of like belief in the Force.
01:35:07
Speaker
This moment is is Fives, who is, yes, a much more independent clone, much more in tune with himself clone, but is person in the Force, an individual in the Force, and feeling that there is something wrong.
01:35:31
Speaker
something inside of them i like to think that this is a moment where the force is speaking to the character of vives and recognizing
01:35:49
Speaker
the chip this is my personal headcanon feel free to uh fight back against that. There's nothing in terms of the like the text to say that, but I feel that that's, this moment was him having that moment. It's like something that Chip is in me because
01:36:18
Speaker
out of something beyond themselves, that's how I say, it's the force.
01:36:25
Speaker
I see. Possibly. Possibly. It could be. and It's a headcanon. Hey, all headcanons are good as far as I'm concerned. yeah yeah that that's just That's my headcanon.
Discovery of Inhibitor Chips in All Clones
01:36:39
Speaker
And so, Five's chip is removed, and AZ determines that it was implanted at the earliest stage when the clones were embryos.
01:36:50
Speaker
And so they they go to one of the big stacks of embryo tanks in the cloning facility and start checking and find that, yeah, all of the clones have chips.
01:37:08
Speaker
And Nalase comes in catches them, and gaslights that it was ordered by Jedi Sifo-Dyas to restrain Jango Fett's aggression, and that it's common to implant clones with inhibitors.
01:37:25
Speaker
And then Shakti comes in.
01:37:31
Speaker
Drop your weapon. Master Jedi, I know what's going on. I have the evidence. The Jedi instructed that inhibitor chips be implanted in us at birth, but Tup's malfunctioned.
01:37:42
Speaker
That's what made him lose control. Where is the evidence? I have it right here. As you can see, the chip taken from clone trooper Tup is black and rotting, indicating a malfunction of some sort.
01:37:55
Speaker
What caused the malfunction? It doesn't matter. The fact is, Tup's chip malfunctioned, and it drove him insane. These chips have to be removed. Otherwise, the entire Republic army could be compromised.
01:38:08
Speaker
There is no proof of that. This is an isolated incident. Besides, when you removed Trooper Tub's chip, he died. Well, that's not gonna happen to the rest of us.
01:38:18
Speaker
And how do you know that? Because I removed mine. Here is Clone Trooper 5's
Confrontation Over Clone Autonomy
01:38:24
Speaker
chip. As you can see, there is no sign of malfunction in either him or the chip.
01:38:29
Speaker
By removing your chip, you are a threat. Master Jedi, we must terminate this trooper immediately. I am not a piece of hardware. I'm a living being! You were created in our laboratories. You are Kaminoan property.
01:38:44
Speaker
Correction. Technically, he is property of the Republic. That does not change the fact that he is a danger and must be terminated. I believe that's for me to decide. Fives, you are coming with me to Coruscant. I think it's time you told your story to the Chancellor.
01:39:03
Speaker
Master Jedi, I beg you to reconsider. The Chancellor wanted all the data on top to be sent to Coruscant. We're sending the data, the tumor, and fives along with it.
01:39:15
Speaker
Then I am going with you. As you wish, Doctor.
01:39:22
Speaker
she's that Her voice is just dripping with contempt at Nala's saying. I love it. Mm-hmm. She's right. She's right. Yep. You were going to say everything I want to say, so, again, take it away. Are you sure? If you have something you want to say, go ahead before I start screaming again.
01:39:40
Speaker
i do want to say say that this is incredible amounts of gaslighting. It is clearly trying to hide the lead.
01:39:55
Speaker
It is very clever. and But I do love that Shakti is not taking any that bullshit. She's like, no, no.
01:40:05
Speaker
We're going to take all the evidence. And we're going to take the Coruscant. All of it. And we'll have that. And she's like, well, I should be there. say Yeah, come with me.
01:40:20
Speaker
is ah We're going to wrap it all up there. gotta wrap it all out there All that Coruscant.
01:40:29
Speaker
With the evidence. with it With everything we have. It's like, Shakti is basically like, yeah. if we If we're going to get to the bottom of this, I don't care what your vision of this is.
01:40:48
Speaker
We're going unravel this mystery. Together. So, like, Shakti... top tier Jedi.
01:40:59
Speaker
yeah Meanwhile, Nala say just once again, sets my son up. Like, ma'am, please stop entrapping my son. Like, despite him pointing a blaster at her, she's not stupid.
01:41:13
Speaker
She can see that, you know, he's suddenly springing a new buzz cut with a back-to-patch slapped on the side of his head. She knows exactly what he and AZ did. And so, like, she asks... He could also do a good karate chop and they kill it immediately. That's true.
01:41:27
Speaker
Yeah. And so she asks, like, how can Fives possibly know that removing the chips isn't fatal? And then, you know, he proudly replies that he removed his and he's still alive. But, like, his gotcha moment was just all according to plan because Nala Se is on record that the whole point of the chips is to limit aggression and, you know, probably has some bullshit paperwork somewhere to back that up, too. So as far as anyone knows right now, the chips only exist because Jango was deemed too aggressive. The chips were the only way to keep that aggression in check. And, you know, back to the exciting incident, Tup killed Tiplar in a fatal act of aggression, specifically because his chip stopped working.
Nala Se's Manipulation and Control
01:42:07
Speaker
Fives took his chip out, and witnesses can prove it.
01:42:10
Speaker
Fives also had Nala say at Blaster Point when everyone walked in. Nick, I think even you can do the math here. And, you know, yeah something, something. Foreshadowing is a literary device.
01:42:25
Speaker
He doesn't even have. He could have easily karate- chuck Chop Donald's day in half. And honestly, i I was like, karate chopper in half. Like, you could do that at any time, fives. I would be very happy with that.
01:42:38
Speaker
But even if he did, that would be exactly what she would need him to do to prove her point.
01:42:45
Speaker
It wouldn't matter. It wouldn't fucking matter.
01:42:50
Speaker
But, like, we also get Apnala really saying the quiet part out loud just with her whole fucking chest. Like, Fives is over here trying to assert his status as a living being. Like, his right to just his rights is just literally fucking exist. And she calls him company property. Like, you know, letting him stay alive is on in par with somebody using the office printer for personal reasons or something. and Like, she wasn't exactly subtle about it before, but I feel like this is the first time she or refers to clones as property property.
01:43:16
Speaker
out loud in front of a jedi or at least as far as i can remember yeah i guess not not say is is brought into this there's a different clone clone representative before this now say it is meant to be like oh yeah the bad guy yeah she's the chief scientist
01:43:43
Speaker
But, like, just what gets me is that Fives has, like, nothing to say to that. Like, he had just so much fury and righteous indignation just a second ago. But, like, as soon as the words are out of Dolla Sade's mouth, part of him just kind of, like, collapses. Like, he goes quiet and his grip on the blaster wavers. And, like, you know, his whole expression visibly crumbles. Because it's just, like, what do you even say to that? Like, he's been fighting for his right to exist this whole episode.
01:44:11
Speaker
Honestly, kind of this whole arc. Only for Nala Se to turn it around and tell him'm like, you only exist because I let you. And, like, the thing is that she's right. He only exists because he was created in the very lab where he now stands. Nala Se created his embryo and approved his decanting, maybe even personally, since, you know, she's head of the cloning facility. Nala Se let him join the ranks of the cadets because, you know, he met her approved performance standards. Nala Se allowed him to graduate and fully join the GAR because once again he met her standards. like Until the moment he left Kamino, he was only fucking alive because she let him live. And now that he's back, she's ready to re-exert her control over his entire existence, just like she did before. She's ready to put him back in, back to like, grind him into the and the primordial goo and make a new one.
01:45:02
Speaker
And it's just like, he can assert himself all he want, but like, Nala Se is so careful about picking her words and like her language. And it's like, everything that she says and everything that she implies is true. And you know, how do you square that with what Fives knows to like be true about himself?
01:45:21
Speaker
And like, yeah, Shakti comes to the rescue, but like, she can go only get him out of there by playing Nala Se's game and like stooping to her level and invoking the same language. Gap5 knows that Shakti sees him as a person, not property, but she still has to frame his existence like that anyway, just to like get him out of there, and you know that has to sting. like He only gets to be a living being when someone else decides he's allowed to be one.
01:45:48
Speaker
Honestly, that's what i love about Shakti, that she is advocating. She is trying to make make make what what the Kaminoans would see, like, mounds of clay that they could just, like, throw away. It's like seeing the potential, making them better.
01:46:14
Speaker
Yeah, and it's like, even in this situation, like, her intentions are good. All of this is designed to help and, like, you know, do good things. But I still have to imagine that, like, the impact on Fives is that it still hurts a little bit that, like, that's what she has to do in order to get him out of there and, like, protect him. That, like, that's the reality of the situation that he's in. that Not even the situation, like, the fucking just life that he's in.
01:46:39
Speaker
And, like, it shouldn't have to be that way. How many of his brothers are not under Sakti's protection?
01:46:49
Speaker
How many have been lost? Because he can't do it the same thing for all of them. And that even when she's trying to do those things for them, she still has to do it within the confines of the way Nala Se wants things to be run.
01:47:02
Speaker
Even to the level of language used. Like, that is just so much control that, like, the Kaminoans, Nala Se, the whole cloning thing is exerting over this entire group of, like, living, breathing people. they Like, Domino's plot. That, like, even that aren't directly a part of this whole system, and, you know, only kind of came into it after for the fact, like, still have to play by the same rules.
01:47:24
Speaker
The whole Domino Squad had had could have been doomed to just like cleaning up to janitorial duties, or they could just been gone.
01:47:39
Speaker
Gone, gone.
01:47:44
Speaker
Yep. And it would have been ah you know just one person like Nala Sey's whim. Mm-hmm.
Fives' Tense Situation on Coruscant
01:47:53
Speaker
And that closes out that episode and brings us into the final episode of the arc orders season six, episode four, five's quest for answers brings him to Coruscant.
01:48:08
Speaker
I'm not already crying. Leave you alone. It's going to be a tough one. It's going to be a big one. Here we go. We pick up from the last episode with the group's shuttle approaching Coruscant, and Thives is strapped down, and Nalase is scanning him, and while no one's looking, she injects him with something.
01:48:35
Speaker
Oh, but well we Coruscant. The entire planet is one big city. Rick Ole, Star Wars Episode one The Phantom Menace.
01:48:51
Speaker
Oh, am I allowed to do the voice on this one? um Actually, yeah it's Rick Ollier with an eye in there.
01:49:01
Speaker
Don't test me about pilots. Don't test me about pilots. basic say I'm allowing you that because there's no there's no there's no jokes that we can do on this one. This is going to whole lot lot of serious. I know. For so much of this, it's going to be me just fighting back tears. That's why I'm getting my joke out early here too. It's GFFA Booty Juice, except to the neck. Or GFFA B52, whatever you prefer.
01:49:27
Speaker
be happy that I that i i put put put the joke in the front half. e And so they they bring him to Palpatine, and here we go.
01:49:41
Speaker
Guards, let him down, please.
01:49:46
Speaker
Now, trooper, what brings you before me? The chips, Chancellor. Chips? Chips. These were removed from both Clone Troopers.
01:49:58
Speaker
Clone Trooper 5 claims they are the cause of the problem. Those are inhibitor chips, which are placed in clones to make them less aggressive and more compliant to orders. I tried to explain to this clone that they are placed in them for his own good, but he removed his chip nonetheless. Our own good?
01:50:17
Speaker
This thing they put in us malfunctioned in Clone Trooper Tup. I removed his and analyzed it. There were signs of rapid decay. And we're positive this has nothing to do with the virus?
01:50:31
Speaker
No. We still do not know for sure what caused Trooper Tubb to kill. We only know that his chip failed, and now this clone has removed his own chip, which makes him a risk to himself and others. I'm not at risk.
01:50:46
Speaker
Sir, they're covering something up. I know it. If it's not them, then it's a separatist plot. They use this chip against us to make us more violent than less. That's why Tubb killed General Tipler.
01:50:58
Speaker
A separatist plot from before the war even started? That seems unlikely, don't you agree, Master Shakti? It does, Chancellor.
01:51:09
Speaker
It seems very unlikely. It is absolutely impossible. What we have here is a single malfunction to one clone's inhibitor chip caused by a virus, separatist plot or not.
01:51:22
Speaker
Perhaps it would be best if Clone Trooper Fives and I discussed this without your presence. Chancellor, I must object. Please, Master Jedi.
01:51:33
Speaker
Trust me. I will not be alone. I have my security here. I want this soldier to feel he is having a fair say in this matter. i gladness I do want to say... Go for it.
01:51:52
Speaker
Yes. the the The Chancellor is not alone. He is included with his... ah
01:52:00
Speaker
Red Senate Guards. Oh, he sure is! I'm certain they will do something. Yeah, it's kind of in the last line of my wall of text, actually.
01:52:14
Speaker
Oh. here hey For Saturday, is it? Indeed, indeed. But, okay, I know this was a long clip, but, like, I really wanted to get the whole thing in there because I want to be able to talk about all of it.
01:52:27
Speaker
Oh, it's yours? the the The floor is yours. Go for it. And you all know what that means! Wall of text incoming! So, from the top...
01:52:40
Speaker
Nellissé maintains that the chips limit aggression, but now she adds a fun new purpose for shoving these things into the clones' brains. Force compliance! Oh, sorry, my bad. I mean, a way to, quote, make them more compliant to orders, unquote.
01:52:56
Speaker
Which, you know, is a totally different thing. and like, she's still pushing the, look out, guys! This clone whose name I know but refuse to acknowledge is totally gonna get you!
01:53:09
Speaker
But she's dropping some additional lore that I guess everyone except my son is just going to breeze right past. You know, to quote Paul Matthews like I've been doing in my head this entire time, think about the implications!
01:53:21
Speaker
Don't say anything. Just let it sink in. Well, are you frightened? If you know you know, I'd request Daryl put the audio clip in, but I'm already making him put in like a shit ton of other clips, so I'm not choosing violence this time.
01:53:33
Speaker
You're welcome, Daryl. But I also want to call out her word choice when she talks about Tup. Like the whole prior episode, she framed killing Tup as like termination and disposal, just all like cold, clinical, nonspecific, almost euphemistic language and almost always like passive voice.
01:53:52
Speaker
However, when it comes to Tup shooting Tipler, now she decides to use the word kill in like harsh, direct, and active language. She's choosing every word she speaks so carefully to absolve herself and damn Tup as a crazed murderer in the same breath. and Like, you know, Five's amazing boy that he is refuses to go quietly and calls out how fucked up the whole, like, for his own good thing is. Which, you know, not to get too political, but who have we heard use those words before and who have they been used against? Like, i don't know about you, but I already need two hands to count the US American specific ones.
01:54:27
Speaker
Oh, sorry, I forgot. No politics on the Star Wars. The clones definitely couldn't be. used as a metaphor for any real world populations it's just as apolitical as x-men but no fives keep shouting to anyone and everyone that like he's a living being deserving of dignity but everyone just talks over and around him even when they seem to be talking to him like they listen to him but they don't hear him at all like case in point palpy you know if he makes a show of asking for fives to be released and like point blank asks fives why he's there But after Fives speaks a single word, Palpi just immediately goes right over his head, literally in this case because of how not tall Nalase is, and just talks to Nalase instead. like
01:55:06
Speaker
He keeps talking to her while Fives tries to advocate for his own existence. Yeah, because you know that royal we he used wasn't subtle. And like, he only comes back to Fives to mock Fives' suggested explanation. and I do mean mocking because his challenge just like oozed condescension that whole time. And like, Fives keeps trying to speak because he's convinced that if he can just get one person to hear him out in good faith, then maybe he can get the truth out there and save millions of lives in the process. Like, he's going about it the right way, heavy on the air quotes, like trusting and working within the system in a liberal framework, but
01:55:43
Speaker
but blinds himself to the fact that, like, it's that same system that made all of this happen in the first place. He calls out injustice over and over again, but the problem is that the things he calls out are, in fact, just, at least according to the Republic, as it's, like, been set up to function.
01:55:59
Speaker
And, like, he's been set up to fail at every single fucking turn, and no one cares. Like, I mean, fuck, half the people in the room have a vested interest in not caring. And that's without the whole, like, evil Sith plot. Like,
01:56:13
Speaker
Putting Sidious in there just makes the whole thing easier because, you know, you don't need nuance when there's a very clear clear evil villain guy right there and, you know, kids show. But, like, that's the real core of this arc, I think. How political systems and special interests use their power to silence people who just want to, like, live their fucking lives. And the best way to do that is to get everyone else to stop thinking of those groups as people.
01:56:36
Speaker
Okay, that text wall was, like, literally an entire page. No, seriously, I checked, so I'm going to shut up now. Oh, wait, one more thing. Yeah, Nick, you already brought this up, but yeah, Palphe tells everyone not to worry about fives because the chorus on God will protect him. So I just want to throw in a quick... Foreshadowing is a literary device.
01:56:57
Speaker
Okay, now I'm done for real. All right.
Fives' Emotional Breakdown
01:57:00
Speaker
So worth mentioning, too... when you were talking about Palpatine's condescension and saying, well, ah a separatist plot before the war even started?
01:57:15
Speaker
Yes, because you... like yeah Yeah, it's exactly what you're doing. No! What are you talking about?
01:57:26
Speaker
That's crazy! So, of course, he had to totally condescend to that. yeah No, nothing to see here.
01:57:37
Speaker
i go along. Move along. i want to know the actual conversation between Fives and Palpatine.
01:57:50
Speaker
I want to know. God, it'd fly on the wall for that.
01:57:54
Speaker
Not a fly on I want to, like... Word by word, like, what was it? was going to say, I was going to say. you know what would be a good place for that, Nick?
01:58:11
Speaker
Papadou was completely over all doing a big, like, speech, because he got his shit wrecked.
01:58:23
Speaker
That's the only way that... way that that that Files could have kicked his ass and left. You know, well, I mean, he Palpatine wanted that impression to be given so that everyone else would be sicked on him.
01:58:41
Speaker
But you know where would be a great place to see that story? If they continue the line of books, but you shorten the length of time between source material and the books to do them...
01:58:55
Speaker
The co Clone Wars from a certain point of view. oh Yes! Yes! Yes! Because I want to hear what Palpatine told.
01:59:09
Speaker
Oh, and and you know who does that chapter in the audiobook? Dee Bradley Baker? Sam? No, Sam Wendell. Oh, because he's when they can't afford Ian McDermott.
01:59:21
Speaker
Yes. I mean, he he did the Return of the Jedi from a certain point of view Palpatine story as he was dying on the Death Star. True, true. And we and we still have T.D. Baker because he is like trying to deny. He's like, no.
01:59:36
Speaker
No. This is
01:59:42
Speaker
So, yes. Oh, no. Lucasfilm, make it happen. Please. Please. so And can we get Matt Stover to write some of it? Please? please oh Please? Please?
01:59:54
Speaker
he right He writes the art he he writes a scene. i still, like, have emotions about the novelization of Revenge of the Sith. Like, the movie has all kinds of problems, but if you read that novelization, like, man, it changes everything. changes fucking in everything.
02:00:11
Speaker
It is the best. It is the fucking best. Just, they would never fight. They were closer than brothers, more intimate than lovers, two halves of a so like single solitary warrior. Then there's like a fucking fucking Dragon Ball Z fight.
02:00:34
Speaker
And then like the, this is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker forever. It's the emotional fact, but also the most, a like, anime-esque fucking fight scene descriptions. It's like... And it's like... My heart...
02:00:55
Speaker
So everyone leaves and Palpatine doesn't seem remotely sinister at all. And we stay out in the hall with them until Palpatine starts screaming in terror and they rush in to find Fives brandishing a blaster at him and Palpatine saying that he went crazy and attacked.
02:01:17
Speaker
Oh, we were just talking about the Madstover Revenge of the Sith Nelvization. Yeah, they bring that up in there too. I guess I probably can't talk about that now because that'd be spoilers, but... You know, this behavior comes back around.
02:01:29
Speaker
It's a good book. pay a good book It's a really good book. Highly recommend. All right. But anyway, just the way I want to like fucking just throw things at Nala say right now, like five runs out of the facility, shoving people and droids and whatever else all over the place in a way that looks kind of violent because he's fucking drugged up to his eyeballs and can barely stay upright, much less see where the he's going.
02:01:55
Speaker
Be careful. All I'll say is maybe like a maybe like ah five toothpicks on top of each other and fall apart.
02:02:07
Speaker
No, but I mean, it's just like the way she planned every fucking thing to paint Fives as a villain and like back them into a corner. It's like she thinks she's like fucking Yagami or something. Goddamn.
02:02:19
Speaker
Again, like, she's also like a very, very dangerous, like, uh,
02:02:27
Speaker
Like, House of Cards. he said Oh, no no, no. I don't think she's a House of Cards in the slightest. I think she's got everything steady and exactly how she wants it to go as soon as she started, like, making contingencies for this.
02:02:41
Speaker
As soon as, like, she found out what happened with the chip, she was already playing all the angles and figuring out how she can make this work. And she has been, like, running that, like, mental calculus in her head this whole time. She has been setting up a long con for this. like This is her playing, like I don't know, 12D chess or something.
02:02:59
Speaker
So Fives escapes, and the Jedi confer about the manhunt that's been issued for him. And they they note that the Jedi involvement hasn't been requested, which they think seems kind of odd. So they decide to investigate anyway.
02:03:17
Speaker
And they're going to do it quietly, though. Quietly, with their best... With their best choice. With their best stealth operative, Anakin Skywalker. But Anakin volunteered himself in Rex since Fives was part of the 501st and the Jedi are intent on bringing Fives in alive.
Fives Finds Solidarity Before Tragedy
02:03:40
Speaker
yeah If we to take it to canon, Obi-Wan's probably like grieving... But it's not girlfriend, not wife.
02:03:52
Speaker
Which one? Right. which one Which one, Nick? Because there's several to pick from. So, Fives hops a cab to a clone bar, and at the bar, he finds Fitz and Jesse. It has the best best, like, in-universe, like, bar conversation. About, like, Oh, yeah.
02:04:22
Speaker
Oh, but he... The conspiracy? You're not the first one to talk about a conspiracy, man. Typical cab driver. But yeah, he... Yep, he bumps into Kix and Jesse at the bar.
02:04:37
Speaker
and Oh, wait, I forgot about something I wanted to talk about first. Where when he's outside and he meets, like, a bunch of other, like, drunk corporals or whatever and the cab driver is, like, upset because he's not going to pay for the hover cab. And the one guy's like, nine hey, you know, it's your credits that are paying for all of this, gesturing to himself.
02:04:58
Speaker
And I was like... it's They arrive at 79. It's like... It's the clone bar. It's like, hey, are you going to pay me? It's like, hey, ah Bill is in the Republic. It's like, ah yeah ah, your mom's a droid. And they all like throw bunch of drunk, drunk corporals throw their dresses and flip them off.
02:05:29
Speaker
But what gets me is the one saying, hey, it's your credits that are paying for this. Literally, like, gesturing at his entire body. Because it is Bill of the Republic.
02:05:41
Speaker
Just, you gotta love some good Gallo's humor and how he's making a joke out of the whole, like, existential horror that this random cat driver is, in fact, part of the reason he's allowed to exist. But also the fact that the And the clones have a bar, and they are basically acting like frat boys because they are paid by the Republic.
02:06:03
Speaker
And most of them are... i make made the... because fact Most of them are like corporals or they have like captain hats. They aren't like frontline soldiers, but they're like getting to enjoy the fact that they are on Republic Bay and going to...
02:06:25
Speaker
to a bar.
02:06:32
Speaker
so Okay, but anyway, where were we? Oh, yeah. So, five spines, Kix and Jesse, and just like, give me hold on a sec, because I gotta yell for just a little bit. Yeah, I know. What else is new?
02:06:43
Speaker
Actually, no, wait, wait, before I yell, I need to actually cry a little bit, specifically about seeing Jesse and Kix and not seeing anyone else from Torrent Company because they're all that's left. There are empty chairs and empty tables and I'm not okay with it.
02:06:58
Speaker
Okay, but yelling, yelling. I was doing that. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, he finds Kix in the bathroom and it's just like, finally, after everything that he's gone through, Fives has found someone who believes him. Like, Kix is the first and only person who has listened to Fives so far. Like, really listened.
02:07:19
Speaker
And just, I feel like that says a lot. you know, in the critique I keep saying that I'm not making because I'm definitely not. Fives finally got someone to hear him out because he found solidarity.
02:07:30
Speaker
Like, he and Kix are in the same boat when it comes to all the bullshit that's happening, and they're united over a shared struggle for the right to self-determination just to exist. It's like this refresher at the club is just this tiny little microcosm of class consciousness, and I love that for these boys.
02:07:47
Speaker
And while they're in there, Fives gets Kix to contact Rex for him and slips out of the bar as security is checking IDs, but he's followed by a surveillance droid.
02:07:59
Speaker
And that, my friends, that brief appearance is the last we see of Kix this season. But Kix will return in Avengers Doomsday.
02:08:12
Speaker
Of course.
02:08:21
Speaker
So Anakin and Rex go to meet Fives, and he sounds like a raving lunatic. um And he's even spelling out that Palpatine tried to kill him.
02:08:36
Speaker
We
02:08:40
Speaker
we just finished watching this, me and Lauren, and personally I feel that's like Yeah, he sounds like a lunatic because has not slept. He has got... experienced multiple huge revelations and basically has been turned a turn into a non... an enemy of the state.
02:09:07
Speaker
Also, he was drugged. yeah And drugged. Yeah, he's high as fuck right now. He is not yeah like despite being a competent and solid soldier of the Republic, he has basically gone through the rigor.
02:09:28
Speaker
Yep. And... so they're do Honestly, I feel that people was like, well, he should just be like a bit... He should just turn himself in. like No, he's completely not in his right mind. And based on his true understanding, if he does, he he'll die.
02:09:55
Speaker
Yep, and security troops arrive, and, well, let's take a listen. Fives, we are listening to you. we only want to help. How do I know you're not tricking me?
02:10:08
Speaker
How do I know it won't be a trap? The Chancellor will try to kill me. I promise you that. The Chancellor?
02:10:20
Speaker
He's in on it. I know what extent, but I know he orchestrated much of this. He told me in the medical bay. He told you. When you tried to assassinate him, you have gone too far, Fives.
02:10:33
Speaker
The Chancellor is incapable of what you claim. He is! I swear to you, General, you have no idea. Stand down, soldier. Stand down! Get on your knees! No, no, no! Stay back!
02:10:44
Speaker
Don't do it. Don't do it, soldier! Get away from me! Hold!
02:11:01
Speaker
Fives! Fives! Get this race shield off! Fives. Brother. Call for help! We need a medic!
02:11:15
Speaker
Rex. Fives. This... It's... bigger than any of us. Than anything... I could have imagined.
02:11:28
Speaker
I never meant... to...
02:11:31
Speaker
I only wanted to do my duty.
02:11:36
Speaker
Brother. Vyse. Stay with me, Vyse. Vyse!
02:11:53
Speaker
Vyse. No, Vyse. Come on, Vyse. Don't go stay with me. Stay with me. Vyse.
02:12:16
Speaker
Daryl, before we get into it, I acknowledge your green text. Daryl, wanted to
02:12:29
Speaker
um hu ask, what do you think was, what did Vibes hear?
02:12:39
Speaker
What do you mean? In that meeting with Chancellor Palpatine.
02:12:46
Speaker
Oh, I think based on what Fives said here, he went full mustache twirling villain, knowing that Fives was going to sound like a raving lunatic to anyone that he told this to.
02:13:00
Speaker
And he knew that you regardless of who was going to be, who regardless of who tracked Fives down, they either wouldn't believe him And his security forces were going to take Fives out.
02:13:19
Speaker
And, I mean, we heard him he spelled it out to Anakin, and Anakin, all of the decade and a half of grooming that Palpatine has given Anakin has taken root.
02:13:35
Speaker
So the the Chancellor couldn't do that.
02:13:40
Speaker
Anakin turned against Fives when Fives said that. I always wanted hear your opinion. Yeah. And I also just want to say before surrendering the floor to Betsy that I i left some of the the last on there because can we just have a moment again for the con for Kevin Kiner and his music?
02:14:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, Kevin Kiner has... For these four episodes, he killed it. The entire soundtrack is great thing.
02:14:17
Speaker
um I'll just wait until rubles. It gets better and worse at the same time. ah Yep. Lauren, do you have any questions or you want to like ask before? No, I'm ready for Betsy. All right, so... um It's Betsy time.
02:14:34
Speaker
yeah ba die The floor is yours. Okay, because, you know, I'm not crying. You're crying.
02:14:43
Speaker
That's my son! Nobody look at Nobody touch me! I'm not okay! And this stupid cartoon for kids is breaking my heart! Do you need extra tissues tomorrow?
02:14:54
Speaker
Joke's on you! I already have a box right next to me! ah Okay, this is another long one I know. I'm sorry, but I gotta get all this out or else I'll explode. So, I'll try to read through this whole multi-fucking paragraph thing of feelings.
02:15:12
Speaker
Take your time. yeah Like, Fives tried so fucking hard. He tries to expose the truth. He tries to warn everyone. He tries to fucking save them. And he put it all on the line only to be murdered by his own brother. Yeah, remember how I had beef with Fox over my daughter? Well, look who just shot my son. duped himself in all the troopers he's meant to lead in the process.
02:15:36
Speaker
But since Fox is just so good at counting to 12, he and his squad come in hot with blasters ready because you know what's always just so helpful? escalating a situation and making everything worse. A plus job, guys.
02:15:50
Speaker
And no, he does not get credit for taking off his helmet and looking kind of sad after murdering his brother. That does not make it any better. But what's more, Anakin, violence is always dancer Skywalker, who had just been yelling at fives for bad-mouthing Palpatine, thinks Fox went too far. Like, his stern expression cracks open, his fives fall to the floor, but then he turns his games to Fox and he just levels like this most hate-filled, disgusted look at him. Like, if Anakin thinks killing someone was out of line, you know you fucked up.
02:16:23
Speaker
But Rex just kills me though. Like, Anakin had already written Fives off as, you know, being just batshit insane, but Rex didn't. He was still listening. Like, Fives tells him about the chips, even pointing at, like, the spot where they would be. And while Anakin is calling Fives crazy, we see Rex, like, reach back and touch touch that exact spot on his own head with this look of, like, obvious fear. Just like Kix, Rex has a level of solidarity with Fives that Anakin refuses to share. Like, as insane as all of the stuff that Vives is talking about sounds, like, Rex knows the score and where clones like him stand. Honestly, the insane part isn't necessarily the idea of someone using the clones for their own their own purposes. It's that they would even bother creating the chips and a whole conspiracy to do it.
02:17:12
Speaker
Because, like... Isn't the former literally already the clone's entire day job? Hell, not even their job. It's like their entire purpose. The only reason they exist in the first place. Like when you take a step back and look at the whole conspiracy conspiracy idea with that in mind, it starts to seem a lot less crazy.
02:17:30
Speaker
but Rex doesn't get a chance to extend his hand to fives because Fox kills the man before Rex can even try. he is on his knees, cradling fives in his arms, begging his brother not to go. And we just watch in real time as something in Rex just breaks. Like, this is the closest we've come to seeing Rex cry, which, put a pin in that, and it just destroys me.
02:17:53
Speaker
But for me, like, the worst part of everything is just fives' last words. Like, He's clinging to life in Rex's arms, and with his dying breaths, he tells Rex three things. First, he tries one last time to tell Rex the truth of what's been done to them. Like, just in this final attempt to save his brother, and honestly, to save all of them.
02:18:11
Speaker
Because he still wants to do that in the end. And secondly, he tries to advocate for himself, but instead of, like, the righteous indignation and conviction that he's had the whole rest of this art, it's more like a plea, like, He begs Rex to understand that through all of this, he was just trying to do the right thing. What he knew to be right instead of becoming someone else's puppet. And he looks at his captain and friend for even just like a scrap of validation and understanding.
02:18:37
Speaker
And I know Rex doesn't say it out loud, but I feel like his expression says it all. And then finally, just like Tup, he tells Rex that the mission, the endless one they all see in their nightmares is over.
02:18:48
Speaker
And it's in like that last singular moment is like all the hurt and fear and grief and everything else melt away that like finally for I think the first and only time since we met him, probably like the first time his entire life, Fives actually knows peace.
02:19:04
Speaker
And I'm not okay about it.
02:19:07
Speaker
I mean, who could be? Who could be okay with it? Monsters, that's who. Right? Right?
Palpatine's Cover-up and Control
02:19:20
Speaker
Um, and I mean, it, it's hard to follow that just with kind of, you know, recap of events, but Palpatine tells the Jedi, his doctors examined both clones and found a parasite native to the planet, which caused the inhibitor chips to decay. And they've developed an inoculation for all the clones as a precaution.
02:19:45
Speaker
And every day brings them closer to victory. Foreshadowing is a literary device.
02:19:54
Speaker
Although i I do kind of wonder what made Tup's decay. Was it natural? Or was there something like a parasite that did that?
02:20:04
Speaker
i don't know. The worst part is it doesn't even matter. And I hate that. Right. You you know.
02:20:17
Speaker
It doesn't matter, but you do kind of wonder what, you know, kind of set the whole thing in motion. mean, the storyteller in me wonders what set it in motion. h Because you, was it just, um obviously it was just a random happenstance, but you, was it, you know,
02:20:38
Speaker
manufacturing because you know i deal with that kind of thing in work all the time you know not not to refer to the co clones as product but i deal with you stuff that happens in manufacturing all the time i mean the chips are or you was there yeah but i mean was there something else that you caused it who knows no no telling or like did he hit his head or something Yeah, or was there a parasite on the planet that caused his to go bad? And so this inoculation really will prevent you the the trap from being sprung prematurely.
02:21:21
Speaker
That's actually the worst possible outcome. Yeah. Yeah. So Tyrannus slash Dooku has the extracted chips and contacts Sidious, who orders him to destroy the evidence. And when the time is right, there will be no one to stop their plan to, dramatic pause, execute Order 66. He said the thing.
02:21:49
Speaker
Thus endeth the episode and the arc. And so here's something that I see you from a creation standpoint ah as kind of a drawback for anybody experiencing Star Wars for the first time watching in strict chronological order and including Clone Wars.
Challenges of Chronological Storytelling
02:22:12
Speaker
And this isn't me you know doing my normal bit about chronological order. This is actually something inherent in the storytelling and the structure of the story that they're doing.
02:22:27
Speaker
And this arc relies very heavily on the audience having already seen all three of the prequels. Because we're supposed to have that oh shit moment when Tup starts keying in on the Jedi and kills her.
02:22:45
Speaker
We're supposed to be screaming at the screen when everyone's suspecting a virus or brainwashing. Well, yeah mean, I guess they're not entirely wrong about brainwashing or or anything else.
02:22:57
Speaker
We're supposed to say, aha, so that's why it worked that way and recognize both the earlier reference and this closing line of execute order 66. It's all presented in this way that has huh see what we did there you you know that thing wink and nudge and now lauren i know that you probably still get it because yeah memes but the average person just watching star wars for the first time and going chronologically they're just looking at this and going ah so what
02:23:36
Speaker
know what's the deal here Yeah, notably, I did already know that this was a storyline in this season, or at least in the series in general. Yeah. i know about this I knew about this one ahead of time, so I i was not surprised by the sequence of events at any point, really.
02:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, and you know I'm not saying that you would necessarily be surprised by the sequence of events, but if, and because I know Order 66 is you a whole meme and pop culture thing, I have taken a picture when I've gone to Whataburger and gotten you know the little 66 tent. yeah And so like, yo know am I supposed to be killing Jedi now?
02:24:17
Speaker
ah But, so I know that you know your're your interactions with pop culture would have you knowing this. but your average viewer who is going through it for the first time and I, and you see them on social media all the time. Hey, I'm just starting star Wars for the first time and I'm watching in chronological order. So I just finished the acolyte. And why was I supposed to hate that?
02:24:40
Speaker
No, I see what you're saying. Like the whole thing depends on like that level of dramatic irony. Yeah. That we're supposed to recognize what's going on and you know,
02:24:52
Speaker
Like we're we're the kids in the audience at Captain America's war bonds thing when the actor playing Hitler is coming out and the kids are like, wait, wait, look behind you, look behind you. or you know, where we're the people watching a horror movie saying, don't go in the house. Don't go upstairs. Yeah.
02:25:13
Speaker
you know because we know what's coming because we've seen the prequels already, because this came out after the prequels, and they banked on that preexisting knowledge.
02:25:27
Speaker
And I guess saying that it's a flaw in the storytelling is too strong of a term, but I think it is a shortcoming of of banking on pre-existing knowledge in a prequel story.
02:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, no, I totally see where you're coming from, that like it won't have the same impact. like The stakes won't feel nearly as high, and the emotional beats won't have as much of resonance when like you don't have that level of knowledge going in, because it's a dramatic irony of knowing what this means and already knowing how it ends just not knowing how they get there in this arc that like makes some of it as impactful as it is i needed myself for like five minutes and i completely lost all my relevance
02:26:23
Speaker
i know do you remember what you said you could say it now it it
02:26:31
Speaker
a maybe ah or I guess not time but I mean that was just kind of that was just kind of my thought on I had some gu i had a good good stuff to put it there i was like but yeah and maybe not that attack okay but So, Lauren, what did you think of this arc of Clone Wars?
Lauren's Take on Clone-Focused Arc
02:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I've never i' never really been into the clones in general, or really any of the human characters in general, I suppose you could say. But out of all of the clone-focused story arcs, this is definitely the best one so far.
02:27:23
Speaker
You know, it had it had a lot of pathos, It had a a lot of analysis on personhood and the idea of people being owned by others.
02:27:36
Speaker
And yeah, you know, it's, ah and also it had a lot of ah lore relevance as well. So generally some good stuff, ah but fundamentally not like the core of what I'm interested in Star Wars exactly, you know.
02:27:56
Speaker
Like ah for for this facet of the Star Wars universe, this is the best that I have seen of that facet, essentially. That is fair.
02:28:10
Speaker
ah Now, knowing... knowing that you, you like, you like the weird shit. Yeah. You're, you're going to like our last, I think you're going to like our last set of episodes in season six. Oh boy.
02:28:29
Speaker
To get there though, yeah you have to get through, um Oh God. Yeah. You have to get through, ah through Jar Jar the pimp.
02:28:40
Speaker
Jar Jar Fox. Jar Jar Fox, unfortunately. And we all have to live with this knowledge. And you have to get through. But if you do like some of the lore stuff, you you've heard the name Typho Diaz several times. You'll you'll get to see that story a bit. Oh boy. but but i We're to finally actually like deal with that stuff.
02:29:07
Speaker
It's like you know, the the mystery that I've been... My biggest problem, like, a large part of, like, the early prequels, like, the mystery like,
02:29:20
Speaker
but I'm gonna tell all that stuff. We finally do it. Alright. But you'll you'll get into some you'll get into just some some weird shit in the final three episodes of the season. But it's also... you're back forward to it It's the best weird shit.
02:29:37
Speaker
yes It's magical weird shit. Ooh, lovely. i was gonna make fun of you for saying Jar Jar fucking is a magical weird shit, but...
02:29:48
Speaker
but don't it's it it You can't tell me it's not weird. yeah But do the Gungans use buckets to do this?
02:30:00
Speaker
As far as we know, they do not, but know what? Did I send you that post that one time, Lauren? You've sent me a lot of posts, Betsy. But but the one with Jar Jar specifically. Maybe. Maybe.
02:30:11
Speaker
I feel like there have been multiple Jar Jar ones. There's one specifically about Jar Jar's anatomy. Jar Jar involves Mother Taliesin. So we're getting some weird stuff.
02:30:21
Speaker
I'll have to find the post, but yeah, it it has things I could never unsee. Well, okay. what Including a lesbian talking about Jar Jar's tongue.
02:30:33
Speaker
ah of course of course well i was i was wondering if I was wondering if it would be similar to John Oliver's obsession with a certain image of Donald Duck with ah an atomic an anatomically correct duck. ah yeah That's the sequel trilogy stuff.
02:30:54
Speaker
I mean, granted, there is some similarities, but this one's like, it's it's an odyssey. That's all I can say. Well, okay. But also, Lauren, I wanted to ask you... You know what?
02:31:07
Speaker
You know what? I think that that is my cue. Hey, no, I wanted to ask Lauren about droids. Oh, yeah. I mean, we had we had a very good droid in this series of episodes. AZ.
02:31:21
Speaker
Yes, AZ was a great. But, like, I'm realizing I didn't touch on it as much as I thought I did. I think maybe I forgot to, like, copy-paste some stuff, but, like, solidarity about, like, between the clones and droids. I wondered if you just had anything else, like, any thoughts on that?
02:31:36
Speaker
Uh, you know, there's... the I brought it up a number of times, but the way that the series treats the B-1s as comedy relief while focusing on the drama of the clones is very strange, considering that they're also sentient. Ha and the series never really treats any other antagonists in such a comical manner.
02:32:03
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. that's also a part of not just an in-universe element, but also an element of the writers themselves. Like, this this isn't... It's a bit of commentary. That's ah just a commentary on the story. Yeah, well, it's like ah the the the comedic relief element of B1s is not an in-universe element exactly. It is a thing that the writers themselves are doing as well.
02:32:30
Speaker
And it's just kind of strange. but Yeah, like there's almost a level of hypocrisy to it. But, yeah, you know, without getting too much into that, because we are wrapping up at this point, ah yeah, you know, the the the the way that droids are so are treated in the series is not great, and it is generally something that I don't think Star Wars wants you to think about.
02:32:59
Speaker
Not at this point, at least. Not at this point, at least. Yeah. that will be my cue then to just say thanks for joining us for casual nerdity and if you're in If you're enjoying the show, there are a few easy ways to support us. Leaving a hopefully good review on your podcast platform of choice helps more listeners find us. And if you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like and subscribe because those algorithms need their fuel.
02:33:28
Speaker
And if you or you can also support the show directly by grabbing a t-shirt from our merch store at store.casualnerdity.com and of course come hang out with us on social media we're casualnerdity all one word on Facebook, Instagram, threads and Twitter X go ahead say it Betsy Shitter!
02:33:50
Speaker
and casualnerdity.com on Blue Sky. Until next time, may your clones have names, not just numbers, emotionally speaking. And your droids too!
02:34:02
Speaker
Yes, your droids too. and So long! drs too Bye! This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.