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Bamboo in Sustainable Buildings & Interiors
107 Plays4 years ago
Welcome to the Green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we explore the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and interiors today.
I'm your host, Matt Morley, founder of Biofilico healthy buildings and in this episode i’m talking to Manuel Diaz Cebrian about his role creating a new bamboo industry in Mexico.
Manuel was previously a Director at the Mexican Tourism Board in London where he managed the country’s image throughout Europe, repositioning Mexico as a cultural and culinary destination.
He is now Director of Special Projects for Marbella Design Week and is launching into the world of sustainability entrepreneurship by agitating for a Mexican bamboo industry to rival that os nearby Colombia.
We discuss bamboo’s sustainability credentials, it’s various applications in sustainable buildings iand interiors, its social impact benefits for indigenous peoples in Mexico, the influence of Bali’s Green School on bamboo-friendly architecture and much more.
GUEST / MANUEL DIAZ CEBRIAN - BAMBOO IN MEXICO
HOST / MATT MORLEY - WELLBEING CHAMPION
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to episode 51 of the Green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we explore the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and interiors today. I'm your host, Matt Morley, founder of Biofilico Healthy Buildings.
Guest Introduction: Manuel Diaz-Sebrian
00:00:27
Speaker
And in this episode, I'm talking to my good friend Manuel Diaz-Sebrian about his role in creating, promoting, fostering a new bamboo industry in Mexico.
00:00:37
Speaker
Manuel was previously a director at the Mexican Tourism Board in London where I met him close on 15 years ago now. He managed the country's image throughout Europe effectively and was largely responsible for repositioning Mexico as a cultural and culinary destination to beat.
Manuel's Career Shift to Bamboo Industry
00:00:55
Speaker
He is now director of special projects for Marbella Design Week and is launching into the world of sustainable entrepreneurship by agitating for a Mexican bamboo industry to rival that of nearby Colombia. In our conversation we discuss obviously bamboo's sustainability credentials as a
00:01:15
Speaker
building and interiors material, its various applications in sustainable buildings and interiors, its possible social impact benefits, particularly around indigenous peoples in Mexico, the influence of Bali's Green School on bamboo-friendly architecture and architecture collectives around the world, plus mucho mas. We recorded this one on Zoom for various technical reasons, but hopefully the minor blips in sound quality along the way don't bother you too much.
00:01:47
Speaker
Let's get busy.
Bamboo's Sustainability and Indigenous Impact
00:01:49
Speaker
So you're doing really interesting work around bamboo and it's one of those materials that has
00:01:56
Speaker
a wide understanding to some extent but I think there's also a lot of confusion and perhaps there's some I think where we can go with this conversation is really digging into a bit more of the expertise that you're developing and also understand a bit more about the potential of the material and also its links to geographies like where it's coming from and how we can use it in buildings and interiors. So why don't we start with that piece around
00:02:22
Speaker
the varieties of the bamboo. I know that it's a grass but I'm not sure beyond that how much how many different species of varieties there are and how they can particularly which ones are most relevant for buildings and interiors so maybe we can start with that. Absolutely I'd have to tell you first of all my introduction to bamboo was most of the people received bamboo or knows bamboo or actually find bamboo as a
00:02:49
Speaker
gardening ornamental plants. When I went to Bali, for the first time I was so impressed to see and stay in a hotel that was built completely on bamboo. Because I didn't know as many people that bamboo had all this potential to support and structure as a hotel or building. So everything started over there years ago and I came back to Europe
00:03:15
Speaker
and especially in Mexico as well, and nobody knew about bamboo. Actually, it was so developed in Asia, but it's by its own possibilities in Europe and also in the Americas. Yes, there are more than 1,600 kinds of bamboo. You could imagine there
00:03:37
Speaker
the varieties and all of them, they differ according to climate, to the kind of soil, attitude, etc. Every single kind of bamboo developed in different climates and different possibilities and different natural characteristics of soil.
Bamboo Growth and Environmental Benefits
00:03:56
Speaker
But they are among these big variety of bamboos, they are
00:04:02
Speaker
a possibility seven that are used or widely used in construction. Among these seven, there are three that are the most popular ones, which is the most of bamboo, the hasper or the asper, and the wawawa. The wawawa is probably the most common one and the most used or commonly used on construction.
00:04:25
Speaker
due to its strength with how fast it grows.
00:04:34
Speaker
As you mentioned earlier, so many people, I mean, for you, because we've been talking about, because you maybe are working, actually, your industry or your organization deals with all these sort of bioproducts and whatever, that bamboo is a grass. But a few people know that bamboo is not a tree, it's a grass. Given the bamboo, one, a normal advantage with other roots, which is how fast it grows.
00:05:01
Speaker
Bamboo, once bamboo achieved being passed up, botanically being passed in the grass in those trees, once it reached maturity between three to five years, it could grow one meter a week. So, telling you that, I cannot just go, I don't have to go deeper on what are the advantages of this resource. It could grow up to 30 meters, and it could have the weight of 30 centimeters, 22 centimeters, 28 centimeters.
00:05:30
Speaker
And the party from that, the use will be enormous, enormous. So that brings us into the discussion around sustainability and bamboo being a fundamentally sustainable material for buildings and interiors. I know there's also some interesting information around its carbon footprint in particular, and we're all, I think, now finally paying far more attention to
00:05:58
Speaker
the carbon footprint, not just of our buildings, but also of the interiors. In fact, the interior fit out. So how much carbon are we embedding into the buildings and interiors that we're producing? So how does that work in terms of preventing deforestation, which I guess is to some extent explaining its advantage as a sustainable material? Bamboo on the part of the characteristics I explained earlier, the growth and all this stuff.
00:06:27
Speaker
it's a very intelligent plant and also bamboo store its own water and manage the water, you know, bamboo house are these compartments, the water comes from down, up and down, up and down. Other thing bamboo has, its roots are not very deep, so somehow bamboo
00:06:50
Speaker
recover the nutrients of the soil, which is already kind of dead. So bamboo has certain possibilities. Talking about a carbon footprint, the bamboo actually keeps as many roots, they keep the carbon. They do not actually release this carbon, the carbon, the food, the carbon into their nature until it's born or it's actually your decay.
00:07:19
Speaker
So Bamboo, due to its durability, especially now, we're going to put it on in general, Bamboo. So Bamboo keeps the carbon itself locked for 30 years, 40 years. And it all depends how you use it, how you discharge it, that actually this is actually in a way converting to energy and going to carbon emissions.
00:07:42
Speaker
So talking about deforestation, obviously, any species is advisable to have a monocritival. Yes. Everything has to be now put into the regeneration of the roots. It has to be a poly-cultivol, poly-harvestin. I don't know how do you call it a poly-cultivol, monocritivol.
00:08:03
Speaker
But in a way, obviously, bamboo is not advisable to have jungles or forms of bamboo completely. It exists in certain areas. If the soil is already kind of dead or rationated, the solution is bamboo because bamboo, first of all, is going to give you a kind of material or resource that we're going to use for construction design or whatever, because there are many uses, many, many, many benefits bamboo could give you.
00:08:29
Speaker
But on the other hand, it's going to give the soil the nutrients that used to have before it was the forestated, before the forestation. So it's like bistable too.
Bamboo's Versatility in Construction
00:08:41
Speaker
Someone corrected me that one of the talks I gave on bamboo, because I say bamboo is actually a great resource
00:08:50
Speaker
to stop touching our forests. No, no, no, no. I mean, no. The forest had to be torched because there's always a need to cut off trees, in trees, all trees. Bamboo came to help us to touch our forests and jungles in a very intelligent way, keeping the tropical rules on the forests and actually harvest bamboo in certain areas to balance the usage of those materials that take
00:09:19
Speaker
30 to 40 force to grow, combine it to eight years that bamboo takes. So that is sustainability, I guess, actually to be honest. I don't know why no more people in the world is used in bamboo. Because right now, to be honest, Matt, me, my main concern is regeneration. I know we had to stop the forest in the forest state in our jungles and woods. But there's already a lot of
00:09:46
Speaker
the planet has been damaged. And bamboo comes as a resource to regenerate those areas that have been already accounted for, stated or dead. Maybe this is a really basic question, but can it only do that in, let's say, tropical locations like Bali, Indonesia, for example? Or can it be recreated in someone like Mexico or in Europe? What are the limitations in terms of the environment?
00:10:15
Speaker
It all depends, as I mentioned earlier, it all depends on the attitude, on the soil, on the climate, on the humidity, to harvest the next kind of bamboo you need. But
00:10:32
Speaker
It is not related only to Asia. Obviously, the Chinese and the Asians were the ones that developed this. I mean, because it's mainly a native plant from that area. But no exclusively, because that's so native at Bamboos that have been found in Latin America, for example. But obviously, Bamboos has been widely used in Asia and Indonesia. First of all, you could actually go to the
00:11:03
Speaker
In Japan, for example, bamboo is considered a very fine art material. In China, for many years, bamboo was a symbol of poverty because it was the easy access material just to build up and to create many things. But now, once we discover not only the wonderful characteristics of bamboo, but also the engineering of bamboo,
00:11:27
Speaker
Yes. Bamboo could be, could be grown in Mexico, could be grown in many areas that had the same climate that we have in Asia. It's just a matter to get a culture harvesting on how to, how to know how to take care and how to, how to cut it off because it's important how to cut it off and how to treat it because something that's been developed not many years ago is treating bamboo with borax.
00:11:53
Speaker
which is bamboo remember that has these little like veins channels and as all these these channels when you cut the bamboo they keep the sugars those sugars produce bacteria and the bacteria kills the bamboo if you don't treat it so one of the one of the the the the treatments that have been
00:12:12
Speaker
very successful is either we hit or with borax. And then the bamboo could last forever. There are different kinds of different times as you submerge the bamboo in borax. It all depends on the kind of use you're gonna have it, okay? And then the most important, which is one of your questions that I'm very keen to answer,
00:12:39
Speaker
is the applications of what we can do with bamboo on this engineering, which is actually when you go into more interiors and flooring and panels. But yes, you wanted to know as well why the bamboo, as a natural product, the structure of the bamboo is tubular.
00:13:06
Speaker
So that gives the bamboo a certain strength. In the industry of the construction, in several industries, we produce the metal tubular things because the tubular form receives a lot of impact and weight. Bamboo has this form and strength by nature. So that's why in a natural way, before engineering the bamboo,
00:13:32
Speaker
Once he's treated, he could be widely used in construction. And you can see this example in Bali and in many pavilions. For example, Simone Belles is this very, very, very, very known Colombian architect. He's been actually building up pavilions and churches of bamboo in his natural form, just the tubular thing, and it's supported with an engineering techniques.
00:14:00
Speaker
So you mentioned the tubular shape that provides inherent strength to the material. So in terms of those characteristics, when you're talking to architects, when you're talking to interior designers, when it's sort of about how it can be not just produced in different parts of the world, but then distributed and eventually sold to the end users.
Promoting Bamboo for Sustainability in Mexico
00:14:23
Speaker
In this case, let's call them architects and the interior designers.
00:14:27
Speaker
Are you looking for in terms of those characteristics, like what are the things that they can ultimately make it so useful and how is it applied in different ways, not just. In a tubular form, but I know i've seen it come through in flooring and sort of effectively tiles so you get into flooring tiles as an alternative to word and where else can it be used on an interior space.
00:14:48
Speaker
is endless. I'm going to give you a lovely example that she is there. Just to explain to you what a bamboo, a bamboo, you also have a new plan. Yes.
00:15:05
Speaker
Your question is about technology of bamboo. Before jumping into that, I wanted to tell you, for example, that from the bamboo, from the leaves, from the twigs, on the top part, the middle, the roots, understand you could produce fabrics, you could produce food, because as you know, the bamboo things are eatable.
00:15:23
Speaker
say from the roots you could produce our handcuffs from the tubular thing you could actually just build up things you could actually as well from the leaves produce juices and food so really you could use the whole thing in different ways and actually one actually obviously the technique to produce to produce um woven also fabrics is very complicated but actually is very popular now in India. India is the number one country producing fabrics and blue fabrics
00:15:54
Speaker
And, and when will we go on the bamboo technology? Well, it's a, it's an end there. The possibilities are endless, actually, for you to put the part from the tubular part, as you say, just the bamboo on different, on different ways, or even fold it because the bamboo could be folded with heat. The tubular thing with heat could be folded. But let's
00:16:22
Speaker
mentioned first two important things bamboo is has a great future because it's durability number one number two the hardness and number three the rapid renewable energy those three factors are the most important factors we have to consider all the time when you work with bamboo so they're going to bamboo technology it's
00:16:50
Speaker
It all depends. Well, when you use the bamboo, you also have the tubula. In the tubula, where you put the pavilions and the torches or base of the columns in different buildings. But when you go into what is in general bamboo, yes, it's a different story. Because then you could actually use the bamboo on slides, the slides of bamboo. And you select it according to the colors and textures. They put them together.
00:17:20
Speaker
the gluten present and they could create literally bricks of bamboo, but this is just with the stripes, which is it has a certain durability, a certain usage could be for indoor or outdoor. And you could with the bamboo bricks or bamboo panels create kitchens flooring indoor, outdoor.
00:17:42
Speaker
but there is some other technique which is to decompose the bamboo and you use the bamboo like a pot, yes, and you mix it with different machines and heat and you create the hardest material ever. So the parting part with this, once you engineer, you could actually use the technique of engineering bamboo.
00:18:02
Speaker
You could create different textures, different colors, and different usages. It could be for the most amazing kitchen inside, the most amazing flooring inside, or the most resistant flooring outdoor.
00:18:17
Speaker
So the possibilities are endless. Right now, bamboo, if you want to build or produce, or you're going to have a facade of bamboo, it's a very important building. There are many buildings now actually with facilities completely made of bamboo. For example, there's a hotel in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam, called Hotel Jakarta. Jakarta Hotel is mainly made of bamboo.
00:18:41
Speaker
And like the Gacato cocktail, there's so many, many, many buildings are actually using bamboo combined with other woods. Yeah, but it's amazing how many wood is integrated bamboo into the construction. What are the, why is it important for the architects or the people in the construction industry to use bamboo?
00:19:05
Speaker
Well, first of all, for the three characteristics I mentioned earlier, there's durability, strength, and obviously the hardness. But the other one is just to support the sustainability of this resource. The more demand, the more people is going to harvest the bamboo. If you manage to harvest, to make this
00:19:28
Speaker
uh more popular because actually the problem we have is that people are still very known aware on well done buis many many many i mean i haven't been involved in mexico as i told you last week we're having this conversation and i've been involved in that the growth with the growers of bamboo in mexico for example which is not it's not it obviously compared to the Asia in Latin America the the industry bamboo is is very is very small but this is more because we didn't know the potential
00:19:58
Speaker
and how amazing could be and how profitable could be because obviously we didn't know how to use it.
00:20:06
Speaker
So when you have bamboo, I mean, I discovered in mamboos that there is in Mexico, they had bamboo, but they didn't know what to do with them. And they haven't watched, some people come and buy the bamboo just to burn it. It's a waste. So what people is learning now is how to take advantage of the durability, how to take advantage of the amount that once it's treated, it could be a very suitable and beautiful material.
00:20:32
Speaker
And also, once you got the material and the money to work in the engineering bamboo, it could be a bono bamboo, and we could, in a way, be more sustainable because we are using a resource that is growing so fast. Actually, we could just leave other woods growing and alive for many years.
00:20:53
Speaker
So I think that's what I find so interesting about what you're what you're you're working on here this project of effectively creating or reinventing the.
00:21:04
Speaker
bamboo industry for a country like Mexico. So as I see it, you've got effectively three levels, right? You have the producers, you have those, the crops. So like the bamboo, you need the space, you need the fields, you need the farmers to produce it and look after it. And then there's the processing piece in the middle and then a final piece, which is around the sales and communication and the distribution where it goes out to the end consumers, which we've just covered. So that bit in the middle between the growers
00:21:29
Speaker
and those who purchase the refined product. What does that look like? Or what could that look like in Mexico? Who's doing that refinement of the raw material and turning it into a product? Or how could that look in a new industry in Mexico? Well, I mean, I'm fortunate there's so many active things. I mean, let me go back to something actually that's important to mention.
Bamboo Education and Community Benefits
00:21:54
Speaker
John Hardy,
00:21:55
Speaker
created the Green School, which is the School of Bamboo in Bali years ago, through Linda Harlan. Linda Harlan is, she was jewelry, jewelry manufacturer. And she discovered, she was the one that brought Bamboo as a beautiful piece of art.
00:22:15
Speaker
to produce jewelry and things. She was one of the pioneers that she, in a way, put bamboo into a different level, not just the resources there, the poor people just for the gardening. John Hardy used to be a jewelryist. His wife used to be a jewelryist as well. And looking for these bamboo in Pali, they fell in love with bamboo.
00:22:39
Speaker
and they discover all the boundaries of this material and then through the years they created the Green School of Bamboo in order to educate people on what is, what are the big, you know, what are all the advances, all the properties Bamboo has, but educate people from the Bay John age. So it started being as a school for
00:23:04
Speaker
boys, children, and then became a school for architects. Elola Hardy, which is Jones Hardy's daughter, she's a famous architect. She used to work in New York in different kinds of materials and structures.
00:23:20
Speaker
So she's the one I came back to, to the roots of her father, and she started now she's one of the most popular and famous architects on bamboo buildings, she created bamboo village in Bali. And when you go to Bamboo Village, it's a whole area with also amazing houses, like a really, it's like
00:23:40
Speaker
is the Hollywood of Bamboo. It's absolutely amazing. So well, being in the middle, I wanted to tell you this is John Hardy and the Green School has educated lots of architects worldwide. Yes, all these architects and the world amount has created a lot of small groups that are now working, dedicating their lives to work and teach people what to do with bamboo. Why? It was important to harvest.
00:24:09
Speaker
to harvest it, why, where you can do it, how you could work with the bamboo, not necessarily being rich, but actually how do you use it, how you treat it? How could you build up even housing in northern rural areas? For example, there is a program, there is a very famous architect in Mexico. She is working on a program that she started in Thailand. It's build your own house. How incredible is that? They are teaching people
00:24:38
Speaker
Okay, grow bamboo, harvest bamboo, and with this bamboo, you could build up your house. So you don't need to go on by bricks. I teach you how to treat the bamboo, and the material you are harvesting is going to be the one you're going to use to build up your house. So being in the middle, first of all, you have to find out actually what is the social impact.
00:25:00
Speaker
And actually, one of the reasons I went to that I'm getting actually fascinating to work with this in Mexico, Matt, it because obviously the countryside in Mexico and in America is kind of cool.
00:25:12
Speaker
So bamboo is certain areas that are tropical. The coffee industry, I know the industry has really damaged our jungles and our land tremendously because also the coffee on the avocado itself, they eat all the nutrients from the soil.
00:25:31
Speaker
So one of the, one of the, what I need to teach people is like, first of all, I'm going to go tables, that coffee is going to be one big sample, but we'll cover nowadays. Also integrate by moving to this selection of natural resources that you could use harvest in order to have different different actually
00:25:51
Speaker
results with different results and no damage completely the soil and the median being taken and the environment. So the whole idea is obviously that the people that harvest the bamboo, the indigenous people get, for them to get a benefit from harvesting the bamboo, make the, make the bamboo more profitable and also not only for the construction, I use it as well as
00:26:17
Speaker
decoration 19 for chairs, for lamps, all this stuff in order to have the added value of the bamboo because not everything is used on the construction. Some leftovers are turned away. So the whole idea is to teach people how to have the benefit from the whole stem and then make some economy and have the secular economy then.
00:26:41
Speaker
And Mexico and Colombia is the most advanced country on that day, 70 years ago. But I see there is a great
Quality Control and Industry Structure
00:26:49
Speaker
potential. First of all, you have to create the union of producers of bamboo because they are kind of separated and they have to get together in order to, in order to, you know, to unify the price, which is important in order to unify and have that control quality.
00:27:04
Speaker
Because obviously, you have to control the way it's treated, the way the quality, because obviously, a bad treated bamboo is going to give a bad result from construction. So you can now allow yourself to be talking about a resource which is fantastic, and then have a construction which is going to last 10 years instead of 30, because it wasn't properly treated. So it's a lot of learning, but it's very simple. And once this is managed, the bamboo industry is going to boom.
00:27:33
Speaker
I'm pretty sure my point in years is going to be a boom industry as well.
00:27:38
Speaker
I really appreciate how you've described that playmaking role of putting it together, piecing the different elements together so that you create what is hopefully going to be a long-term project around a sustainable alternative to building with less sustainable building materials. I think it's got so much merit. If someone wants to read further into the subject, if they want to explore
00:28:04
Speaker
topic a bit deeper. Is there a recommended resource or where would you say we could go to kind of learn a bit more? Well, I have to tell you actually I've been researching bamboo for I mean I've been a professional way for the last few years because as you know I'm the director of special projects for Marbella Design because actually I mean I will give a talk two years ago to architects and designers in Marbella in this exhibition
00:28:30
Speaker
And we started telling people that, hey, bamboo is a grass, not tree. This basic information that people were not aware, as you know, the roof of the terminal four in Madrid, Paracas, is the biggest bamboo project in the world.
Resources and Projects Featuring Bamboo
00:28:47
Speaker
And not even the Spanish people knew it. So I find it very, very sad, to be honest. But I cannot blame it, because when you go to the terminal, you go to the roof, and you ask, what?
00:28:59
Speaker
well it's not this bamboo because you cannot you cannot identify that it's bamboo but it's just it's a layer of bamboo treated and generating and it looks beautiful and like that so many other bigger projects that are happening i'm going to paris in um in two hours just to see a pavilion that Simone Belles built up in the other fans where is exhibit in a photographic exhibition of Cervace Chien-Salgado
00:29:21
Speaker
And the pavilion is made of bamboo. So it's more and more and more that you're seeing this. And well, most of which is the most important in our company in Europe on the engineering of bamboo is going to be finally due to all the bases we created is going to be exhibited in Mongolia. And last year I invited Dr. Pablo van Lubden.
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah, he came to, we gave a talk together. Obviously I don't know. I don't combine myself to his knowledge, but actually I'm never enthusiastic on this and he appreciated that too much. So he's the one that build up this book called Boom in Bamboo, yes, which is Pablo van der Luft. I will say the details. Actually, this is, to be honest, this is the Bible of Bamboo. He's been actually, he's been writing his work all the three
00:30:14
Speaker
boom boom boom and there have been my bible and it's been it could be the bible for every single person I wanted to learn more about bamboo. Amazing cool but we'll add that to the show notes as well and well thank you for your time it's been really informative I appreciate it. My pleasure thank you have a good day ciao.
00:30:34
Speaker
So, you know, you never know I never know really where the conversation is going to go. And that's what I find so interesting about these podcasts talks is that you kind of, you know, I've got vaguely a plan right but always find
00:30:48
Speaker
that we end up talking about that piece around how you're effectively like creating a whole new industry that requires education, like people working on the crops like what can they how can they process that. How can the architects become aware and be educated around what to do once they receive the products
00:31:08
Speaker
It's the big picture. I think that's so, that's a unique opportunity that you're getting involved in with Mexico. So it's just, I think that was the part that I was maybe not expecting from the conversation, but I'm like, wow, okay. It is not a good chance, to be honest, it's so wide, because to be honest, actually, there's a lot of tendencies on this, on the production of embossed.
Bamboo's Role in Sustainable Development
00:31:29
Speaker
It's a lot, actually. When you ask for the book, for the first time, I was giving the time to say, fuck, what am I doing?
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thanks God I was talking to people I didn't know we're not aware about she went when I get there, the talk with Pablo from the manual just so enthusiastic you could you have learned so much about the basics.
00:31:47
Speaker
Use bamboo because we need to use more sustainable materials. It's not just business for business. Obviously, this is a business company. It's a business to everybody. Guys, we have a resource that is going to help us to regenerate so much that we have damage already.
00:32:05
Speaker
And that for me is that really two important areas really map is the social impact because I'm so tired to see how poor is the country people at the countryside in Mexico when we had the wonderful climate and soil and stuff. But there's the fucking corruption. But there's a lot of people are just trying to do that. But instead of just that stop being corrupted, give them a tool to do something. And for me, what I do is not move.
00:32:33
Speaker
And I'm working on that. And actually, to be honest, I won't be surprised if in two years I saw once I retired from tourism, I got involved. I used to dedicate it myself. This could be a 10 year project if you want it to be, like to really make the kind of impact that you want to make. It can take that long. So I think it's good to have that sort of medium term perspective because there's so much to do. But yeah, that's.
00:32:58
Speaker
That's how you change the world. You don't change the world overnight. It doesn't work that way. I think it's important, Matt, to the same way you do it, actually. You get to put your seat. You get to do your little part. And it's what I'm doing. And I'm going to pretend to make a fortune. My main idea with them is not making money. It's just giving something. It's just leaving something to the world. If that gives me money and that is entertaining me as much as it is entertaining me, I'll turn it down.
00:33:26
Speaker
I'm done. I'm going to Paris just to see the pavilion now. I'm just so happy to go and see that. And then the rest will come along because when you do things in fashion, you know that results come along.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, keep learning and keep the passion alive. Those are the two secrets. So tell me, you wanted to tell me yesterday something. No, I didn't want to. No, I just had a very, I had like, gosh, sometimes I get myself in these situations and I'm like, oh no. What am I doing? I'm joking.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah, I had a day off. Yeah, yeah, man. But I don't know, maybe, let me let me say this. Maybe, maybe in like a few weeks, maybe, yeah, maybe, I think there might be something that's like, yeah, I think I met someone. So like, we'll see. I'll let you know. I'll let you know.
00:34:26
Speaker
I just go a little bit like this. Let's see. It's like a dance at the beginning. So we'll see what happens. Anyway, that was sweet. I really enjoyed our chat. Thank you so much for that. Me too. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Bye bye.