Transcript
Speaker: California is a place where they're West Coast IPA, Hazy IPA, it was a very diverse sort of beer scene. And yeah, just sort of gravitated towards there every time. And then also, I guess, in my brain was always linking lifestyle and and the people in California back to then if I did, you know, open something in Sydney or Australia, then that would translate.
Speaker: So, and I guess, you know, weather and lifestyle, that was very much the thing, yeah. I'm sorry.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. Back here once again, i'm your host James Smith, joined by a different co-host this week. um Decided it was a good idea to prove that there there is something other than just sort of middle-aged or approaching middle-aged men working for the Crafty Pint in the full measure. And we have Liz O'Brien here with us this week. Liz, how are you? I'm good, James. I'm very excited to, I don't know, be in front of the mic. Get a Guernsey. Yeah, give it a shot. Yeah, get some headphones. I certainly do listen and critique you guys a bit. so Mainly critiquing, I'd say, more than listening.
Speaker: or being sarcastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So know Liz has been part of the team for more than a year and a half now, I think. And I think if i was trying to describe what Liz does, all the stuff that's looked better and been presented better for the last year and a half, whether it's Pint of Origin or the Crafty Cabal or the Crafty Pint, or the look of the full measure on socials and everything, is essentially down to you.
Speaker: Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm not the designer, though. Other people have designed all the graphics and everything, and then I've just spun them together to hopefully make it kind of engaging. I hope so. No, we're sort of taking our articles and ideas and going, that can be done better. You can present that better. Can we do this? Teaching me new tricks in Canva. It's all very exciting. Yeah, I have say did really love working on the Pine of Origin last year. That was highlight. Was it this year? It was this year. Yeah, this year. That feels like a year ago. Well, when you did the first one, I think you'd been working for me for about a week and it was like, Liz, go and fix this. I went, this guy's bonkers. Yeah, and how do you feel about it 18 months on? I understood the bonkerness. Okay. Is that a word, bonkerness? Bonkerness. I don't know. I'm not a writer, so I can use different language. Exactly, exactly. So if you've been seeing some of the presentation around podcast changing in recent weeks, that's all down to you as well, trying to get us to think outside the box, which has all been very exciting. But anyway, now next stage is to get you on as co-host. Will is midway through his podcast. honeymoon in Italy. I got a message from the other day and Tara and I gave him some euros for him and Courtney some euros for their wedding and they used it to pay for a gondolier to take them around Venice and I was like what a great way to spend our wedding money so it was very exciting. That is very quintessential Venice style. Bucket list ticked.
Speaker: But yeah, I guess we should probably also talk a little bit about beer. He didn't tell me what he'd been drinking, he just sent me photos of him with a very happy gondolier. um And I guess, talking really about beer and still sticking in Europe, we run a piece this week by Bryony Liebich, who does a whole bunch of style-based technical pieces for us. I was explaining to you before Liz, she used to work for West End. brewery when that was still in Adelaide and one of her roles as sort of in quality and century was around working with Guinness and I just figured you know what better beer to write about now that we're no longer in winter than stout yeah true actually a bit late yeah yeah But the thinking there was is that the whole point of the article is kind of like Guinness has had this incredible sort of rebirth in recent years. you know, it's become the number one beer on the planet um at times. And a lot of, you know, it's like the know the the Gen Z, splitting the G. yeah All these kind of trends that have made it sort of become really popular. And I've spoken to brewers going, well, if that's all that younger people are drinking, we've got to make one. And so it just seemed to me Hop Nation had a lot of success with Melbourne Black. um
Speaker: Filter just launched their Sydney Stout. So just got, you know, Bryony to take a look into it. She lent on some but her old contacts at Guinness as well and talking about what nitro beers are and why she thinks they're popular and then challenging some of the local people making them. Because it does, i mean, it'd be interesting to see if the popularity continues through into summer. um I do know Hop Nation have now got their Blacks on Tap in like 60 places, maybe 80 places. Just read the article again. ah But, you know, whether... that they'll um I'm assuming that the and they'll want those to be permanent taps. It'll be interesting to see how that goes. Are you a Guinness drinker or or a Melbourne Black drinker, Liz? I'm big Guinness drinker, and I do like a Melbourne Black. I'm very impressed by that beer. yeah um
Speaker: But I think my thing is is that... nope oh You asked me too big a beer question. No, well, for the first time I um split the G with my mates at Hotel Lombardo. Oh, was that when you were out couple of weeks ago? There you go. No, well, it's a couple weeks before that and then we did it again. But yeah, it's kind of become a tradition to do that. how many how How many sips or gulps is it for you to for actually to split the G perfectly? Yeah, so I worked out that, yeah, i should count each time and then get it right. There's actually a theory there's theory. So, yeah, no, eight. Eight. Eight. Eight small gulps? No, big gulps. Eight big gulps, okay. You? You done it? Never tried it. ah ah If I'm going to have one of those, I'll wait till I see a Melbourne Black or something local on tap because obviously I'm so pious that I would never have anything internationally owned, especially since becoming Australian a few weeks ago. So, you know, now the Crafty Pint is no longer foreign owned. So I've got to stick to that. But um yeah, so we've got that. We'll include links to that in the show notes. um And yeah, if you want to know anything about sort of how nitro beers come about, the history of them, and why they taste as they do, Briony will be your guide.
Speaker: I'm keen to read that. Good. No, like I genuinely am. It's nice to know that someone working in the team is interested to read read one of the articles rather than skim it for socials.
Speaker: Oh, don't you? Whatever. Okay, next thing. what are we talking about? um I loved Will's piece that he wrote before he left about Abby. Oh, that's right. the Boxer Brewery.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, so we did we did a piece on Boxer Brewing when they first opened about three years ago, and at the time, Johan van der Waal, who'd been the head brewer at Green Beacon and won a million trophies, he'd gone in as the head brewer. um But then I'm assuming the the long-term plan, because it is based on the family winery and our brewery, was to bring Abbey Heslock back into the fold.
Speaker: um So we'll, um i think first I was speaking to months and months ago, was one of those things where everyone so busy it takes a while to come together. But yeah, so she was born into the family winery, Studied wine worked in wine around the world then went oh I actually quite like beer yeah And it's ended up back in Queensland making beer and wine For Boxer Brewing and which is not which is hat which is Falls winery Yeah, it seems to have had a pretty fun journey throughout the beer world and seems be pretty happy doing you know making lots of delicious things in Queensland I love it that it, I don't know, as I was reading the article, it felt like her dad kind of had a hidden plan to have a bit of a brewery going so that she might, know, return home. Oh, his hidden agenda, yeah. go and make wine, but I'll be learning how to make beer in the background, Abby, when you're ready. Yeah, she's got a whole little brewery set up for you. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So you've also got a piece for a young gun from WA. Yeah. That's right. yeah This is one from Jono Outred, our man in the South West, also part of the IBA team now. um Part of our Slays Beer series, that was the idea was to sort of put um a spotlight on the younger people coming through the scenes, like young guns of the beer industry. um He sort of had a chat to this guy, Jake Loder, works for Beer Farm um down in Metricup. Have you been to Beer Farm? i'm assuming you would have been, being in a WA native. Yes, considering the majority of my family live in Augusta and Margaret River. okay I have been to Beer Farm and I have done the slide down the hill. done it isn't Isn't it just kids only now? You must have got in before. Yeah, got in before. Yeah, I haven't been allowed to do it unfortunately. I but took the family back there. it's I don't know, just just the little ones now. Yeah, Jake, i think he started out in brewing and beer at Beaver Towns, worked for Blaster in WA. And yeah, the idea is with these articles is just to sort of pick people who've I guess, having a fun, interesting career, the younger end of the scale, and sort of chats, they're not just about, you know, how they got into beer, but I guess their take on how the beer world is going in terms of, you know, attracting a new, younger audience and what they think is being done well and being done badly. So you can check that out. um They'll be live on the website before the podcast goes out on Thursday. Yeah, I do enjoy a good beer, farm beer. I've always wanted to go back for their, like, they do big spit roasts and stuff. yeah They've done some pretty big like festivals and stuff there as well. like They're just just a good bunch. like yeah Good beer, great venue, good vibe, happy people, like good ethos about what they do. yeah you know What's not to like? Apart from the fact that it's so far away. yeah the thing i love about that whole region is they really harness the you know outdoor drinking and beer gardens and all that like melbourne has some fantastic beer gardens but you go down into the southwest wa and it's just good lounge there all day yeah it was pretty eye-opening for me i think the first time i went over to visit breweries in wa probably 2009-ish or something and it's like yeah just vast expanses of lawn and kids areas And it's like, okay, this is very different to, you know, all the breweries have been visiting. Even even most of the regional ones around Victoria's don't seem to have that same access to land, um you know. Was it Bootleg? Bootleg, they they were the original. Oh, that beer garden. I remember discovering it when I was like 18 and a half. yeah Definitely over 18. And I was like, this place is awesome. Yeah, well, and Rocky Ridge took that over last year. It hasn't been reopened as their next venue yet, but that's been watch this space for a while, yeah. yeah
Speaker: yeah Yeah, actually, I'm sticking to WA. We added a new listing to the site this week. We've had a real nice run of new listings on the site recently, which has been kind of encouraging. it It's been a tough few years for everybody, especially since the end of COVID. um So it's nice to be welcoming new breweries and venues onto the website. So Long Point Brewing and WA, we did a story on them a few months back actually, but the head brewer there, Jackson Purser, he's very well known in the WA beer scene.
Speaker: He's just a beautiful man. we so We talk more often about music than we do about um beer, but he's gone down there as the head brewer. This brewery is one of the very first um elements of ah to be built of what's going to be planned to be this sort of new beautiful coastal community. They built a very very lovely looking brew pub down there. I started pouring beer a few weeks ago, so Guy Southern, one of our writers over there popped down, had a chat to Jack.
Speaker: taste all the beers so that listing's on there now if anyone wants to take a look you can add it to your list it's um about an hour or so south of perth so if you know next time you're over there you want to just have no more than half an hour between beers well just doesn't stop anymore like south frio was kind of like you'd get on the bustle highway and then it's like next stop was don't maybe mandra but often you'd drive past mandra But now just keeps going the whole way down. Yeah, for sure. Although you are driving a car.
Speaker: Yeah, designated driver required. and The other one we've added this week is for Bottle Keg Can in the Shire in Sydney. um Currently operating as a bottle shop, but they're going be opening a small bar out the back before the end of the year. They're not just about so but celebrating all independent brewers, but also and in all independent producers, I should say. But in terms of beer, no one over 500,000 litres. So they're really trying to hone down on the small smallest breweries. They do work with a lot of them sort of closely to to kind of do releases for them. um We put the the listing up on socials and people just jumping on going, these guys are the absolute best. Like they are just legends. They just know what they're talking about. It's like, it's good to hear that because, you know, i think it's been hard for retailers and venues to kind of stick to their guns, you know, when things have been tougher and there's less disposable income going around and being offered greater incentives and tap contracts being pushed harder to find people going nah yeah this is this is what we believe in like the guy came the the founder came from a sort of fairly big corporate background and was like no this is what I want to do so um that was awesome so hopefully we'll hear from sort of more people like that um and yeah we'll include a list the link to that in the show notes as well Oh, that's really cool. yeah Kind of reminds me of like Natural Science, that but bottle shop. Yeah, Hawthorne Way. Yeah, it's just like he just sticks to Australian. Yeah, and I think, you know, and's I'm sure it isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, but if you do it well and word gets out there, you don't need to be bringing in...
Speaker: like 95% of the population to have a successful business you just need to bring it in the ones who actually care you just need to bring nine or five that actually drink and spend money i don't want discount exactly exactly um throw one back at you though liz i am because uh other times the week you wear ah a molly rose hat and and because of that we were able to coordinate a combined uh beer club our crafty called beer club and molly rose and proud mary collaboration brew earlier in the year with proud mary having been partners for pint of origin yeah um and that brew night has turned into a beer in the last week or so amber with uh filter coffee and uh amaro botanicals and it's it is very lovely like it's yeah the coffee's um quite prominent but in a so soft and rounded way and just yeah i thought it was very lovely i i actually
Speaker: I put the write-up on the website on Saturday and then got a message from Nick, the founder and Molly Rose saying, thank you for the write-up. I was aiming for an atypical coffee beer. I got ticket of approval the man. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I didn't realise because the cabal, we put it forward for them to name it. And I didn't realise that Detective Nick Amaro is actually a character from Law and Order. Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't have watched it. No, I know. I'm sure it exists. So then I was kind of like, is it because Nick looks like the dude? But I don't think Nick looks like the guy. No, of all the names that forward, I just liked It just seemed like a fun name. I couldn't really, you wasn't sure where the detective came in, but now we know. You know, maybe because they had to sort of, you know, analyse the coffees and decide which one was the perfect suspect.
Speaker: But yeah, but the beer is still pouring at Molly Rose, available in cans as well. Yeah, yeah it was absolutely delicious. But anyway, you but we put out the latest cabal news last week. You've got what's on going out this week. So what what is going on for our beer club members, Liz? Yes, we've got heaps going on, as always. No, we've got some hells from White Bay um up for grabs. With T-shirts? Yeah, with T-shirts. There's also crafted tickets. and to Newcastle and then also for the first time the Melbourne Festival that's right um which is in November I'm kind of keen to see how a beer festival goes in Melbourne again it's been a while yeah yeah since there you know being that kind of big one there's a few coming because then Kegland looking to do something late Jan I think and Gabs is supposedly coming back in May so we'll see how it goes And then um and then excitingly, we also have Vinehop have just come on. Yeah, that's right. So Vinehop is a pretty unique festival on the Mornings of Peninsula. takes over half a dozen or so venues celebrating all Peninsula breweries, cider makers, wineries. Spirits producers as well.
Speaker: um Tickets were on sale a while ago, but we've just kicked off our ticket giveaway for for this year's festival, which is on November the 21st. So we've got some tickets up for Cabal members and bit of a side plug, we've got some tickets on offer for um people that follow the full measure, our new Spirits publication as well. So keep an eye on that platform. um yeah it's just ah ah These are tickets for the Festival Hub. You can also upgrade and get hop-on and hop-off buses to take you around all the festivals all the story all the venues.
Speaker: But essentially this chance to go around and have a lovely day and try lots of nice things and listen to music and DJs and all that kind of stuff. So that's pretty fun, really. And we've got an exciting Cabal event coming up, um hosted by Mick up in Queensland at Hop City Bar with a brewer from Happy Valley. Yeah, Jake, who's Jake Harrison. He brews for Happy Valley, but also does some interesting barrel-aged stuff as well. He was at Helios before that. And Ballistic, much-loved member of the local community up there. yeah so that'll be great. So we hope, yeah, the cabal gets around that and comes down. And and what's the date on that one? 30th of September. 30th of September, so not not long. get your ticket. Yes, yeah and oh that a and it's almost almost too late, but there's also the not definitely not Octoberfest at Three Ravens this Saturday, where there's discount for Kabal members as well. Oh, true, yes. Well, I was drinking at Three Ravens on Saturday. You were not there yet. We did the beer belts bus around. The first Northside tour. Yes. Yes, that's just been launched. Yes, so the first stop for me was Three Ravens. I had a delicious hand pump ESB. And then you met us at Torboy. Yes, Tourboy and then La Seren and then Bridge Road Brunswick and I believe there's other stops on the tour as well. Yeah, heaps. We've talked about designated drivers before. If you want to go and check out a whole bunch of breweries around the north end of Melbourne, yeah then Beer Belts offer hop-on, hop-off bus tours, which is a good way to do it. And we'll include a link to there. website in the um in the show notes. Yeah. Which I guess brings us to and this week's main chat, which was actually recorded less than 24 hours before we sat down in here. Nothing like flying by the seat of your pants. um
Speaker: So I caught up with Brady Hannett. He's one of the co-owners of Future Brewing in Sydney. They've been around about three years. um i actually did cabal event with him at Bench Warmer a while ago. um And we ended up chatting for so long in the heat in the beer garden that I got sunburnt. Hopefully not too many of the guests did. um But yeah, they've been going through an interesting time. They've had some issues one of their neighbours. So it was a good time to get him on because the whole Inner West Brewing community just come together, created a collab beer. They did a big fundraiser. Oh, that's cool. So they've been raising money to help them with their, you know, sort of legal battle. um over there but he's also um yeah i think sort of he's very well they're very well known in the sort of the sydney scene and also people who are really into those i guess more cutting edge cali ipa west coast pills and that kind of thing i'm not sure you know how much broader the the story's gone out there so it's great to you know get his backstory how long he'd been brewing the fact he went and learned how to brew in the States. In fact, the place that he brewed at is when our production, when our podcast production manager is in the States visiting his family. His local brewery is the one where Brady actually sort of,
Speaker: polished his polished his skills before moving back to Australia in Monterey or near Monterey. So here we have a chat about his you know particular styles he loves brewing, the future brewing story, what it's like being part of the Inner West Ale Trail. um And yeah, it's a lovely chat.
Speaker: But yeah, well, Liz, thank you so much for joining me. Well, there was a few stumbles and I'm sure Matt will edit that out. Including this, he will probably edit it out. So you can start the outro again. no I reckon we'll be using that for socials.
Speaker: No, no, I think we'll you know Matt is only having to like edit about 73 podcasts this week. so think So I think what he's going to really enjoy is having the most stop-start intro to the show he's ever had. So that's probably the worst record you've done? i would ah i wouldn't like to say the worst. That's very judgmental. Top three. Top three worst.
Speaker: um Well, you know, the only way is down. But, you know, if if that's the worst we can be, then imagine, you know, how good we can be. And if you do think that that wasn't that bad and we're normally pretty good, then feel free to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, rates and review. Tell your mates about it. You can send an email to podcast at craftypint.com. Let us know and whether you'd like Liz to join me. Oh, it's okay. Yeah. You know, and i maybe, know, if she doesn't want to do it, that's even more reason to say yes, keep Liz on. Yeah, well, you know, at one job I had, someone did such a bad job at this promo that then they never got asked to do the show again. And I went up to them and I was like, man, that was a really bad promo. And they said exactly, but it did exactly what I wanted it to do. I never had to make another, what was that? I think it was deal or no deal promo again in my life. And is this what you're trying to tell me now? 20 minutes on.
Speaker: Was it 20 minutes? It seems to be 10. There we go. Anyway, enjoy the show with Brady after the break. Thanks again for joining me, Liz, and we'll see you next week. Cheers.
Speaker: Bye. Hi, I'm Luke McCarthy, editor of The Full Measure, a new publication dedicated to Australian spirits, brought to you by the team behind The Crafty Pine. Australia has a thriving distilling scene, and I'm excited to share it with you through regular stories, podcasts, interviews, and plenty of delicious tastings.
Speaker: Whether you're into whiskey, gin, rum, brandy, or cocktails, I can assure you that there's Australian distillery to tempt your palate. If you love locally owned and brewed craft beer, we reckon you'll love some the many Aussie spirits on offer today.
Speaker: Check us out at thefullmeasure.com.au or find us on socials at the handle at Full Measure Mag. Brady, welcome to the show and welcome to Melbourne. You've been in town all of what, three hours or something? Yeah, not and not even, just flew in and delayed flights, so straight here.
Speaker: Excellent stuff. I'm glad it wasn't delayed too much because ah we'll be ah turning this show around in about 48 hours. um I guess we may as start with this beer that for those of you who are watching this rather than just listening, and we have this lovely clear and golden beer here. Do you want to tell us what it is? Because it's, I guess, a as as As beers with stories go, this is a beer with a story. Yeah, for sure. So it's um Love Thy Neighbour is the beer. It's a West Coast Pilsner dry hopped with nectar on and mojueka. And this was part of a bigger fundraising and awareness campaign that we did to essentially... We've raised funds and and awareness about a neighbor of ours that's made dozens of complaints over the past three years and that's sort of escalated to land and environment courts. So, yeah. And done that so without going into the nitty gritty, essentially, pretty much since you've opened, you've just been dealing with this issue ongoing and it's got to the point because we did a story on about the time, you know, well, Jason did a story for us and Mr. Inner West Ale Trail himself. yeah when when the beer was coming out, but essentially got to the point where pretty much everyone on the Inner West Ale Trail has gone, all right, Brady, where where we've got you back on this. Yeah, yeah. So I kept um kept the Inner West Ale Trail guys like up to date with what was going on. And that's when we come up with idea to do the campaign, Love Thy Neighbor. But it's essentially, I mean, with that you know I guess to summarize it, someone would like you not to be there.
Speaker: Yeah. Essentially, like you've been there a number of years yeah and from day one, someone's I don't want these people in in my neighborhood kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah. And we wanted to do it in a way that was, you know, it stayed positive and it was more about...
Speaker: you know having breweries and these things in your neighborhood is is great. It's great for socializing, it's great for a number of different reasons, and it's part of that inner west sort of vibe to live near cafes, bars, breweries.
Speaker: um So yeah, all the other breweries got on board, so 14 others. um We brewed this beer, everyone tapped a keg, and we had ah we had an event at the brewery, which was great. You had a pretty big turnout from what I from what i heard. Yeah, yeah, it was it was great. it it was um you know like It's definitely been you know tough with with some of these complaints and legal things we've had to deal with. So it was very nice to just feel the love of of everyone coming together and and supporting us. And yeah, a lot of locals showed out and... Yeah, and it's been it's been great like as well after that. It wasn't just like that night and then it's dropped. We've had a lot of support just on ongoing in the tap room. So it's been been really nice and sort of kept a bit of put a bit of wind in our sails to sort of keep going. and Well, that was the impression I was getting sort of leading up to it. ah you know we We talked to about it in the past. you know We did an event a while ago, but we've been aware of it. Jason had been sort of keeping us up to date. but Yeah. the sort of your tone didn't seem quite the normal Brady tone by the time you got to this point. I think, you know, obviously had been sort of getting you down a bit. So it's nice to hear that, you know, a bit of a yeah community support can turn the corner. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's one of those things that it's just such a distraction from, um you know, running the business, running the brewery. You know, you're trying to create a real fun, you know, environment in the tap room. and all you want to do is go and cry in a corner. Exactly, yeah. So and then, but also like,
Speaker: There was a degree that we tried to keep some of the negativity away from like our staff and customers would come in And so then you had this kind of like double side where, you know, you want it to be a positive fun place, but then you want them to know. And then you had this thing going in the background. So the the launch night was good because I think there was also like a lot of people that didn't know the extent of what we're dealing with. So we kept it like pretty pretty close to ourselves. um So it was nice just sort of get the story out there and then people would know exactly what was going on. And also just for the greater good of the industry and you know, bars and other breweries that are dealing with similar things. Like there lot of people that came along that had other businesses in the area that had similar issues. So then able to like share, share stories and and challenges. So that was also nice to, to sort of, you know, connect with those people, even though they're going through similar sort of horrible situations. Yeah. Sometimes a problem shared is a problem halved or whatever they say. yeah i mean, and, And do you feel that there's that sort of community within, mean, the Inner West Ale Trail will be the you know the most famous, you know, in the Marrickville Crawl and everything, most famous example of that kind of thing in the Australian beer industry. There are other, you know, clusters of breweries out there. But I think since the trail became official, it's just run so well and coordinated so well. But is it kind of like that the whole time? Or do you feel a lot of the time, actually, I'm future brewing and I'm just sort of focusing on what's going on within my four walls? Yeah, I mean, for us, you know, we're coming up to three years, so we're still pretty young.
Speaker: You know, we sort of know a few of the breweries that that are part of the West Ale Trail, but it's sort of getting to know some of the other ones. And essentially like something like this has kind of brought everyone together because I mean, even when we do have events, it's, you everyone's doing their own thing at their own brewery. Whereas this was a real combined effort. We had a brew day you know, everyone came along to the event, everyone tapped the beer. So, but yeah, it's nice to know that you've got people in your corner when things like this come up. And yeah, it's good to, it's good to, if you ever need... ingredients or whatever you can duck around the corner and grab a bag of dextrose or a bag of hops or whatever so um yeah it is it is nice and it's like you know I think it's just it's important for all of us to you know once again just sort of spend time with each other share know challenges or ideas or or you know positives that happen um so yeah it's been it's been really nice to you know be able to connect with these other brewers and yeah And is it, you know, is it one big happy family or do you find there's, you know, maybe the younger brewery, you know, the newer breweries hang out more together or is it done by style? Like where we're into like clean, crisp, American style IPAs. You can keep your, you know, old fashioned beers over there kind of thing. Yeah, well, I think that's that's one of the positives of it is that when we first started around the same time as like Kix Brewing and and Brendan and Jess, we do sort of similar beers to those guys. And then as well as um Mike and Roberta from Bracket, similar thing, got really good relationship with those guys, sort of doing those modern styles and fairly new newish brewery. So I guess that's been, you know, break down some of those walls where now, you know, I can go down to um Grifter and catch up with Glenn and they're doing, you know,
Speaker: really good beers and have for what 12 years now um and yeah you've got you've got all these different breweries that are doing different things um some have been around for a long time others are new but yeah just kind of then allows everyone to be on that same level and genuinely love thy neighbor yeah exactly yeah and what sort of benefits do you see you know i so going about the trailer again here i guess but like you know Do you feel benefits as being part of it? Do you you know think that the you know the website drives traffic or is it the combined events? like you know do Do you think you know future benefits from it or is it more that it's the trail as a whole you know has this sort of awareness around it?
Speaker: um Yeah, probably both. um I think in terms of the events that we've had, they've they've been great because what what we sort of see is that a regular that would be at Filter or Grifter around the corner like would have a reason to come to the future and, you know, we're doing very different things and, and and you know, then they might come come to the future and go, oh, wow, the beers are great here or like they they need that excuse to sort of come over and and vice versa. So then you're sort of sharing...
Speaker: sharing that customer, um, which is great. Um, so we see a lot of, a lot of positivity view from it. Um, I mean, we do sort of our own events as well, but then, you know, obviously Jason drives a lot of those Jackie and rich, um, the fret, the fresh hop fest is, was always like a really great one. Cause you, everyone's got to go around and drink the fresh hop beer and get a stamp. And so you get all these people going around and, and checking out all the breweries, but, um, Yeah, we've definitely noticed. does it manage that with RSA, given there's like 17 breweries on the list? It's like, even you've only got to tick off five. It's okay. You've got a whole week to do it. Yeah, I mean, I think we we encourage everyone to do it over the course of the weekend or weekends, depending on what it it is. So you can really spend time and and not just go there, try the one beer that's that's part of the festival and then move on. You can actually go there. try some of the other beers at the breweries and yeah, do it in a RSA way. And then focusing on the future itself, if someone hasn't been, how would you describe what future is like as a venue, as an experience?
Speaker: um Yeah, so I think um you know it's ah it's a pretty pretty modern taproom. We kept it very simple. um i guess probably the biggest feature is the is the really big bar that we put in. and We really like that sort of um you know American bar vibe. um It's one of the things that I think is kind of lost in the pubs in Australia now is being able to just you know go and sit at the bar, have have some food, have a beer. So we really focused on that as the center point. So we get like, you know, locals coming in by themselves or with their partner and they can sit at the bar, have a chat.
Speaker: And then you've got other bigger groups that can beat the tables and things like that. So it's, um yeah, it's a little bit of like sort of off the beaten track of the the sort of Marrickville area where you can, you know, if you're down there, you can sort of walk to each brewery, whereas ours is more of like a, I guess a destination brewery, but um we've got a, you know, nice big, beautiful park across the road.
Speaker: um But yeah, I think, think you know, with... Pizza and the beers we've got there now, it's it's a good excuse to just travel a bit further and check it out. And you say events, I mean, is it yeah host live music anything like that or are you talking more around beer events? What's your sort of your offering on that front?
Speaker: Yeah, so we um we this year in especially we've sort of ramped up the events. So we do in March, we do like a hazy beer one, which we called Haze Days this year, which was ticketed, very popular and get a bunch of breweries, beers, put it on tap and really great time.
Speaker: And then we did a ah dark beer festival in July, Dark Arts, which was similar sort of um situation, but just dark beers. And then we're about to host our first lager festival called Lagerland. next weekend and that's a bit bit smaller.
Speaker: um It's not ticketed, it's just sort of come in drink drink good lager. West Coast Pilsners. West Coast Pilsners, yeah. we'll We'll have three or four lagers on that we've made. We've got quite a few from Melbourne that we're bringing up. One from Tasmania. So we try to sort of pick off like Pilsners, Lagers or whatever styles and breweries we like, but then also think about like, well, what's what can't people get in Sydney? So, you know, we've got the Albert from Tasmania, we've got a keg from them. Yeah, so a few like fun, exciting things. Basically, the beers that you want to be drinking. Yeah, exactly. As a brewer, this is like the the festival I look forward to. But yeah, it's a lot of extra work to put the events on, but I think it really like keeps the customer engaged
Speaker: and And it's also just like a a really good chance to get everyone together. It's a good excuse for yeah know consumers to get together and catch up with everyone. And that's also been the positive thing is just seeing people in the room that haven't seen each other for six months and the excuse to go and have a few beers and catch up.
Speaker: Yeah, well, I think last time i was in the future was maybe six or seven months ago when Will and I were did a few days in New South Wales. And one of the events we stopped at was Seekers Club Brewery. Yeah. Similar kind kind of thing, although it's them collaborating with the brewers that are involved. And we were there on the Friday night, which is when most the brewers were there. And it was just a good time because, like, you know, it wasn't an event where the brewers had to go and pour their own beer. It's going to go along and their beer is pouring and they can just catch up with people. And obviously there's punters there as well. But it's just, yeah, it's kind of, it's a Nice, like busman's holiday, but you know, yeah leaves leave the work at home. No, it is good. Yeah. And like, you know, obviously we always encourage the brewers to come along and and that's also fun as well for them just to hang out because I mean, everyone's so busy that it's it's rare that you get a chance just to sit down with another brewer, another brewing and have a couple of beers and just, you know, what have you been doing? So that's pretty rare.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. And I'd love to come back and have a chat about the future brewing ethos after the break. Before we get to that though, you mentioned the States earlier. What was your sort of inspiration, your journey to go from, you know, what were you doing before again? do know this. Environmental science. Environmental science, that was it. For some reason I got like graphic design coming through my head. That's asking you about branding later. But it was spending time in the States, is that right? That sort of led you down this path?
Speaker: oh Yeah, like I probably got got sort of into beer when I lived in WA and at that time would have been 2009, 2010, or a little bit later actually would have been a couple years after that. But I was drinking a lot of feral, that was sort of big at the time and then sort of caught the bug from that, started home brewing and then sort of did a few little courses in Australia but was kind of looking at the Siebel course or UC Davis.
Speaker: and and thinking, geez, if I really want to open a brewery, I would like to go and do a proper course, work in a brewery. And I was sort of looking at those US courses and thinking there that's the pinnacle.
Speaker: So eventually applied and got accepted there. So went over to California and did the Master Brewers program at UC Davis. And then it was obvious halfway through that that I'd never worked in professional brewery before. So then I was thinking... Obvious to you or obviously to everyone else running the course going, geez, it's Can someone get this guy's first-hand experience? And yeah, and then I was like, yeah, definitely need to go and actually work at it, figure out how it works practical terms.
Speaker: um And then, yeah, landed a job there. And and and this was Alvarado? Yeah, Alvarado Street. Alvarado Street, that's right. So and Matt, our podcaster, sat a metre and a half to my left. his ah His local, whenever he's going to visit his family over in Monterey, so... Perfect, yeah. Yeah, yeah great great brewery, great beer, great guys. Yeah, so I sort of landed somewhere where was very lucky to learn and yeah, did a couple of years there and then came back.
Speaker: like start of 2020 and obviously the the world then changed dramatically. And then, yeah, that was, but yeah, I think that the time in the US s was very much the the turning point of like, all right, now I'm confident to start something. And yeah, a lot of the lot of the beers and and things that we do are heavily influenced by that sort of American scene and styles and culture. We'll come back after a short break and have a chat about that inspiration and that culture and that ethos, that future. which Cheers.
Speaker: Registrations for CIBD 2027 are now open. Held in Brisbane from the 15th to the 18th of March, 2027, the 39th edition of the Chartered Institute of Brewers and Distillers Convention is a must attend for every forward thinking brewery and distillery. This year's theme is Brewing and Distilling, the Adaptive Future. Resilience, relevance, reinvention.
Speaker: Celebrating innovation and craftsmanship, the convention brings together professionals from across the Asia-Pacific region and beyond to share knowledge, explore new ideas and strengthen the connections that make our industry so collaborative and compelling.
Speaker: From match to mastery, the future of our industry will be defined not by volume alone, but by value, quality, adaptability and bold leadership. This convention is an opportunity for attendees to contribute to that future together.
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Speaker: Welcome back. um We said we'd have a bit of chat about sort of the inspiration, the brewing ethos at Future. um Anyone that knows you will be aware that there obviously is is that sort of American influence sort of guiding you. Was that something that was always there? You mentioned, you know, I guess, I guess Feral would have been inspired by American brewing, you know, a generation before really. Was that always, know, once you got into craft were your tastes always in that sort of space or was it more colored by spending all this time in California?
Speaker: Yeah, so I feel I did quite a bit of travel like in the years prior to to opening the brewery. And yeah, I think I was always coming back to America because I think that they were just so good at at taking styles that other countries did well and then sort of making it their own. So like the sour beers and, you know... so fruited sours and and you know stouts and and pushing the limits on hops and things like that. So they were they were very well versed on pushing limits with whatever it was, but then also you know California was a place where their West Coast IPA, Hazy IPA, it was very diverse sort of beer scene.
Speaker: and And yeah, just sort of gravitated towards there every time. And then also, I guess, in my brain was always linking the lifestyle and and the people in California back to then if I did you know open something in Sydney or Australia, then that would translate. So, and I guess yeah weather and and lifestyle, that was very much the very much the thing, yeah. And you know to those that don't know Future, you know there's particular styles I think you you'll see coming out from you pretty often. We mentioned West Coast Pilsner, but generally sort of, what said I guess, the cleaner, brighter IPAs, that kind of thing. Would you say you know there? Are there other styles that you love to make regularly as well?
Speaker: um yeah like i would say that like yeah we're very early on we're very focused on um you know doing something different and and and very much in that like modern you know california inspired styles um so yeah west coast pilsner was a big one that we started to doing um we put a lot of work in our like hazy pale just getting that really nice, really soft, and they're in that 5%, but very hoppy using sort of, you know, predominantly New Zealand hops. But yeah, we we we now sort of do all different styles, but, you know, we we we do a lot of pilsners and lagers now outside of the West Coast pils.
Speaker: um We, yeah, we do hazy IPAs all the way through to, you know, pales, singles, doubles, triples, And then yeah, West Coast IPAs we do regularly in that Cali, California style.
Speaker: And then yeah, I mean recently we started to really just sort of have fun with some you know smoothie style sours which is always fun to sort of experiment with flavors and and things like that. And then we do we do some stouts here and there as well, like seasonally. and And a few multi beers as well. We've done a few red IPAs this year which has been kind of outside of my wheelhouse, but my brewer Sam is from UK. So he's got a very good hold on those sort of multi hoppy beers.
Speaker: So that's been been fun to sort of develop. But um yeah, I think we mostly sit within that IPA sort of realm most of the time. Is that what flies fastest over the bar as well? um No, like it's, I think the bar is kind of, the bar is sort of more of those lower alcohol sort of stuff. So like we on any weekend, it'd be, you know, Hazy Pale and one of our Pilsners or Ligers. And then once you get in the sort of package stock,
Speaker: It sort of flips where it's like higher alcohol, hazy, big. People want that big experience. So it's almost like two business models. yeah yeah got you know so And were you aware of that when you came in? Had you seen that the places you'd worked in the States? Or was this a bit of a surprise being like, hang on, everyone wants to drink this here, but no one wants to buy it from there, you know? Yeah. I mean, i think the States is quite different in that regard. I think people in Australia tend to enjoy...
Speaker: the lower alcohol beers more. I guess also these, um they have a very different different flat tax system as well. Yeah. So you're not paying three times as much for for a double IPA as you are for a hazy pale. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah. I think it is slightly different in that, but um I think,
Speaker: I was in the US in May and I think it's starting to become more and more like here. You sort of notice some of those higher alcohol beers aren't on tap anymore. You might find them in package, but certainly on tap, you know you've got a number of West Coast Pilsners, a lot of IPAs around that sort of 6%, 7%, whether that's West Coast or hazy.
Speaker: So yeah, it's sort of like, you know, in a really good balance sort of way. But yeah, it is it is interesting to sort of see that different model, whether that's like packaged or or in the tap room. and But yeah, it's also, you know, keeps us doing different styles as well. So it keeps it, we're always experimenting and trying different things. And I guess having come in, um you know, I guess as a new business, but with these styles that were still relatively new over here, like, Calipare, West Coast Pills, what have you, Any sort of ah eureka moments or lessons you learned over the years? Because, you know, yes, there's ah a lot of hop character in there, but they're still pretty delicate. You know, there isn't ah you haven't got a whole bunch of, you know, rolled oats and a whole bunch of bodies to hide behind. They're still pretty lean. there been anything you sort of learned over the years? It's like, this is this this is how how I know we can now make these beers well.
Speaker: Yeah, I feel like our West Coast Pilsner, when we sort of first did that, I think the first one we did, we actually called it NZ Pils. um But yeah, I think it took quite a like couple of years before people really started to to take notice and and to be you know very interested and and sort of go, okay, well, there's there's other Pilsners on the market, but this West Coast Pilsner from Futures, very hoppy,
Speaker: um you know like it drinks like a pilsner the aromatics of a west coast ipa um so yeah very very pale very soft um But um yeah, I mean, I think, um yeah, we just sort of backed ourselves and hoped that it would sort of become popular. And it's it's one of our sort of most popular beers. and In the tap room, we always try to have West Coast pills on.
Speaker: um But yeah, we like early on, we definitely had, you know, people at the bar, I remember, would come up and, you'd you know, pour them a West Coast IPA and or or a Cali IPA that we call it now.
Speaker: And they'd be looking confused just because of how pale it was because it was 100% pilsner malt and fermented with lager yeast. And they'd be expecting you like a really, really dark, malty kind of you know Midwest or sort of... yeah Just ignore the A. It doesn't mean ale. It just means anything. Anything goes. Anything.
Speaker: But yeah, so we certainly had people that had to be like, oh, wow, what's this? And and you know using more of those brighter, fruity, ah citrusy hops that you'd typically find in a hazy IPA.
Speaker: Still definitely, like, we kept the bitterness as well because we found it was there was sort of examples out there that they really backed off on the bitterness and it just became quite flabby. So we've always kept that, like, really nice structured bitterness. But, yeah, ultra dry, ultra pale, and just, like, yeah, one of that real, like, flavour and aromatics. Yeah.
Speaker: and yeah And you talk about using some of this at the fruitier hops, um you know do you and you mentioned kiwi hops before as well. Do you have a particular favourite ingredient? I'm assuming hops would probably be your favourite ingredient, but do you have particular varieties that you really love? are there other And I guess on the other hand, would there be some that you've tried that like they actually just don't work in these sort of beers? Yeah, so it's like, I mean, like, you know, in a really boring sort of niche way, like we've we've had a journey with our base malt and we've pretty much tried all the different Australian base malts and we use a Gladfield light lager malt and that's pretty much
Speaker: as pale as we can find. It's certainly a little more expensive than any of the Joe White's or Barrett Burstyn's sort of extra pales or Pilsner malts. But you're not you know aiming for sort of you know global takeover, I guess, at the end of the day, you? Yeah, so exactly. But um yeah, so we we we really obsessed over that and we wanted something that was just very clean, something that didn't get in the way of the hops, very clean cannabis, which is why we sort of landed on that.
Speaker: Gladfield light lager. It's why we ferment with lager yeast because that's that's a lot more cleaner and than your USO5s and your Cal ale. It's funny you say that because USO5 was always regarded as like the neutral yeast for making you know hop hoppy pale ales back in the day. And now it's like no, no, so it's just the esters on that are not out of control. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, you do get a bit more of a sulfur compound there, but I think that works really, really nicely with some of these like, sulfur-y, you know, funky New Zealand hops that, you know, that diesel and and New Zealand funk and a little bit of cannabis there. So I really like that. and
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, we we sort of we use a lot of New Zealand freestyle hops in particular. Nelson Savon being one of our favorites, but a lot of the other varietals as well, we found that just works great with sort of what we're trying to do in that, just like really fruity, really bright, but yeah super punchy and aromatic.
Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, on our scale, it's hard to get consistently good US hops. So we're still that's still something that we're sort of chipping away with unless you can you know afford to buy a ton of Citra from Yakima Chief. And keep it chilled somewhere. Yeah, and then and then store it, which which we definitely can't at this point. So, yeah.
Speaker: yeah So we sort of work with those smaller hop farms, really focus on that quality. And yeah, we're just trying to make really bright, clean, aromatic beer every time. And aside from that, I guess one of the other distinctive things about Future is the branding. I remember when I was in the tap room back in February, think it was, and was looking at, is that t-shirt got the big lettering on the back? Or have you got one with the big bubble writing on it somewhere, I think? No, this is just the t-shirt one. Oh, that's right. No, I think I had seen one and I was like, oh, I reckon there's Kate Patterson. I used to run Good Beauty with her. She's now got a pizza place that was all over the breakfast news recently when the NFL was in Melbourne because they make the most amazing, very stars of American style pizza. But I was like, I really like that T-shirt over there. And I took a photo of the bar and Kate instantly jumped onto Instagram going,
Speaker: I think I want this t-shirt that branding is amazing. I'm like, I've actually left and moved on to the next place. But I mean, that's something I guess that's been pretty um central to the business as well. Like, you know, to have something that, you know, is quite distinctive and stands out, you know same with the can designs, the naming, that kind of thing. So what's the background there?
Speaker: Yeah, so we were we were very specific about the branding early on and we actually had the we had the logo um um yeah before we even... like It was actually probably two or three years before we even opened, we had the logo. Yeah, we've got to open now. Yeah. and But yeah, we were very were're very specific on that we wanted the logo to be something that...
Speaker: you didn't necessarily associate with beer that it could be a logo for anything and that could stand on its own without having to say or put the words future brewing there um but then you could still look at the the logo and go okay that's that's future brewing um yeah so we we and what what was the reasoning there just that you wanted something that you know that was i guess visually appealing as you know and yeah just non I guess you know beer branding can often be thought of maybe as quite gendered as well yeah to an extent. So was that was there an element to that there? so Yeah, we we wanted to we were very like stuck on keeping it yeah simple, but like you know like I said, that you could look at the logo and go, wow, that's you know know exactly what it was without having to say the words.
Speaker: um so But we wanted it to be minimal. We didn't want it to be like too busy because I think a lot of branding is very busy. It's very cliche, like you got a hop or a bit of grain or whatever. So we wanted to keep it very like more, this could be a fashion brand rather than ah than a brewery. And then in the back of our minds, like, right, it's a black and white logo.
Speaker: But then, you know, we can have fun with the can designs and the beers and then that's where the color and fun can come into it. But yeah, it's the logos. The logo has been great. It's um it's it's sort of timeless and minimal. And yeah, like that was one of those things when the guy that we got to do the logo sent it through and just was like, damn, he's nailed this. Yeah. And do you think you know yeah that's that side of things has become increasingly important in beer? I mean, they're probably saying things are getting busy. They've been busy for you a decade now in terms of like looking at taps or looking at fridge space. But do you think that as part of a mature maturing and I guess you know more competitive market that it is important to have you know all those elements right as well? I think so, yeah. So also like our designer, Molly, who is basically one of my best mate's wife, she's our she's a designer. She's been basically done all, yeah, she's done all the design. She was on board from the start.
Speaker: um And yeah, I mean, like, you know, she gets compliments and and we we get compliments about her work all the time. And yeah, like, it's like, it's trying to stick out in a very busy and very just like, You know you go to go to a fridge at a craft beer store now and it's just overwhelming. So you've got to sort of find a way that you're still having fun and being true to yourself and and you know doing doing fun things, but then not just doing you know AI or trying to yeah cheat cheat out of it.
Speaker: But yeah, we do find that our our artwork and our logo is very... very obvious that it's ours and then the the design as well as the logo. Yeah, I think if there's a few of yours together, they're definitely, you know, the eyes will be will be drawn. And I think, you know, a lot lot of the, um you know, better retailers have for a long time now sort of put drinks in by style. There'll be a fridge of, you know, lagers and pills, a fridge of pails or whatever. But I think even within that, even if you know what you want, if you are a more educated drinker, you can still go in. And even if it's like, definitely just want some pale ales or IPAs today, still like,
Speaker: all right, where where do I go here, you know? Yeah, yeah it's hard. it's um Yeah, i mean, it's it's also for me, it's like I sort of come up with all the names and and work with Molly, our designer, and that's ah that's a real fun, creative thing that I can i can do.
Speaker: and and also one of the big reasons I opened a brewery was just that creative side. So yeah, it is it is it is fun to do it. What's your favorite name of all the names you've slapped on a beer? yeah.
Speaker: Wow, that's ah's a, yeah, I think it's like 140 odd now that we've we've had. Maxo Relaxo is one that came to mind that I had thought of and then I i was absolutely shocked when I looked at it on untapped and realized no one had had that. And so that's just like a really fun, that was a hazy pail we did a few years ago.
Speaker: yeah that's been we did another one collab with our verado called Sausage Sizzle that was a really fun one that they brewed over there. So yeah, we try to have we try to have fun with it and and yeah, nothing nothing too serious. Yeah. and and And outside of the world of future, whose beers are you sort of really enjoying, whether that's local or or from overseas? it You know, if if you didn't have your fridge filled with future beers, who else is likely to be in there?
Speaker: Dan, yeah. um I mean, you know, at this point in time, we have a lot of good friends in the industry. So they're constantly sort of coming over and dropping beers off. Yeah, I mean, Kix and Bracket the are the obvious one. You know, they're doing some great beers.
Speaker: Mike's doing great lagers and hazy hazy beers and Brendan's doing, you know, great lagers and West Coast IPAs and stuff too. um But yeah, apart from that, I mean, yeah, I think just, you know, enjoying the the simple lagers. So, you know, like I was mentioning, the Lagerland next week, next weekend.
Speaker: No, sorry, this weekend. Oh, so we yeah, we're also about just in time. so you know, if you're listening to this on the Thursday or Friday and you're anywhere in the vicinity of Sydney or an airport, yeah get yourself to future brewing. Is it it's Friday through to Sunday? ah Thursday to Sunday. Thursday to Sunday, no tickets, but we've got, um you know, like Hop Nation, we've got White Bay, we've got the Albert. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: We've got Freshwater up in Brookvale. We've got Keeper from from down here. We've got, who else is around? a Bit of a who's who of people making really great lagers. Yeah, exactly. yeah like it's It's good to just go, all right, who's who's making lagers? Who's making good lagers? And sort of get them in. and But yeah, I mean, I do, I think, you know, it's the cliche brewer thing where you want to drink, you know, really flavorful beer around 5% because you want to have two or three and not, you know, feel like you're drunk. Yeah, exactly. And what about looking ahead? um
Speaker: ah Hopefully the, you know, the issue that's been lingering like a, you know, the cloud clears at some point. But aside from that, you know, we're in an ideal world, where where would future be in ah in a few years time?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it's I think we we sort of opened in an unusual time, i.e. post-COVID. Like, I think I refer to furte breweries that opened before COVID and after COVID.
Speaker: And um yeah, I think we we opened in a really precarious sort of time where things were really tough, you know. Yeah, you've kind of launched straight into the start of a cost of living crisis that's showing no size of buggering off yet. So, you know, the you're still here is like, you know, well done. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the October long weekend is our third birthday. So that's coming up. And it certainly feels like I think we're maybe finally on the the good side of the the grind. So, yeah, obviously...
Speaker: Hired a brewer like Sam started six months ago. That's been really nice. Sort of, we' you know, pretty much doing everything before that. um but um you're You're free to come down to Melbourne and do do fun events and stuff. Exactly, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, not be brewing every single beer and working every taproom shift. yeah But yeah, like it's it's definitely been... I guess it's been a very slow and and growth for us. And, you know, we still, and by growth, I mean, we've still with the same amount of tanks that we started out in. But just fill in them and empty them faster. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, and that's, and that's only probably this year that we've probably really started to push that. Now I've got a brewer. um But um yeah, look, we're, we're happy at our size. Yeah. Yeah, we certainly don't have any expansion plans at this point.
Speaker: I think honestly, Ed, like you touched on with the the way that, you know, the industry is, the way that the, you know, like cost of living crisis, I think if we were going to make big moves, we'd wait until things were at least looking on the up. Yeah. Because it sort of still feels like we're still establishing the brand and it's taken a long time to get here, even though it's, you know, positive outlook. But, yeah,
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, we've definitely toyed with the idea of, you know, adding a few more tanks, things like that. But we're just we're just trying to maximise what we've got at the moment. And, yeah, trying to be very deliberate and, you know, cost-focused and quality-focused as well. yeah Yeah, I'd rather make less beer and just sort of improve keep tweaking, keep improving the quality. Yeah.
Speaker: Still have a roof over your head. Yeah, exactly. yeah Yeah. I don't think now's the time to take major risks. No, no. Don't don't go launching a second publication at a time like this. No, no. Nothing like that. No, I think you're right. I think, you know, for years now, you talk about the breweries that have been around sort of pre-COVID as well. I think, you know, those that have maybe grown to, you know... ah regional or even sort of semi-national scale through COVID as well, when people people were buying lot more packing stuff at home, they've had to sort of go, actually now is the time just to find the right size, yeah find the right space to be in. and So yeah, i think it's very, very wise.
Speaker: Yeah, I think you know we we we always wanted to have a small brewery and you know I think it's probably taken you know two, three times longer to get to where we are now. But also you know we've been able to figure out a lot of different things and make mistakes and then now like really at a point where we can...
Speaker: you know consistently make really high quality beer. You know because it is it is hard to it's you can make a really great beer and then you try to try it again and then it's it's average. so But it's very tough to sort of just keep, especially when you're experimenting and and things, it's it's hard to just keep that really high high level and higher standard. So I think we're at a point now where where you know every release is sort of, you know we're very happy with it. i found You found your groove. Yeah, found our groove and found like where we sit in the market and certain beers that people know us for and then we can still experiment and and do collabs and and learn that way. i try to sort of travel at least somewhere every year to go and just get out of the the, you know, Sydney or Australian sort of craft beer bubble and see what breweries in the US or Europe or whatever are doing. So it's always very helpful.
Speaker: And head off for a bit of Maxo Relaxo time. ah Yeah, I mean, it's always, it's always work related, but enjoyable work stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it's been really enjoyable having you in as well. I've enjoyed your brief stay down in Melbourne um and I hope Lagerland is a runaway success this weekend as well. Yeah. um Cheers. Thank you. Thanks for having me. No worries. Cheers.
Speaker: Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by me, Matt Hoffman. For all partnership inquiries, please reach out to Craig Williams at craig at craftypint.com. To keep up to date with everything in Australian craft beer, head to www.craftypint.com.
