Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Games for Grown Ups
0 Playsin 12 hours
What makes a game something good for grown ups. Not necessarily an "Adult" game, but a game that is mostly made with an adult audience in mind. We talk about this, and also what years are the most recent.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
Talk with us on Discord!
https://discord.gg/ve9fqjgPp2
Recommended
Transcript
Microphone Mishaps and Introductions
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello.
00:00:35
Speaker
Oh, i i I was, I was doing a fun thing with my mic and then I accidentally put some mute button. yeah It was fun. I watched it and yeah it was fun, but yeah, I accidentally put, this has a very sensitive, like kind of mute trigger.
00:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, no, no. We, we use the same microphone. we do Just, just so audio fidelity on this podcast is as high as possible. Hello.
00:01:05
Speaker
that How was that? Was that, did it sound good or did it just look fun? No, it it sounded great. I mean, what you guys don't know is that Ben has one of those like suspended by cord microphones, like a ring announcer at a big boxing match might have. I get lowers down from his silly. So he's just like swinging it around.
00:01:24
Speaker
Like he's at the maypole or something like that. Uh, hello everybody. Welcome to Quest Quest. The adventure game podcast. I am Ben, PS underscore Garrick on Twitch and YouTube. but And I am Jess, that's Decaf Jedi, and both of those aforementioned places.
00:01:45
Speaker
How you doing, Jess? I'm
Hamburger Talk and Social Media Engagement
00:01:48
Speaker
doing well, Ben. I'm having nice day. I'm coming into this. you know You'll probably that I'm pretty punchy. I'm coming to this ah fresh off a hamburger.
00:01:59
Speaker
So I've got hamburger energy. i've got I'm ready to talk about my dinner, too. So I'm glad that you have. I mean... Mine was very simple. This isn't a fancy hamburger. Like it was just like some American cheese and a little bit like sriracha sauce. Like I'm keeping it real simple.
00:02:16
Speaker
Was this, uh, uh, uh, at home? but This is a home burger. Hashtag home burger. Hashtag home burger. Hashtag home burger with some homemade. That's a pretty good hash. Home burger.
00:02:32
Speaker
That's a good hashtag. That's a good hashtag. I don't know. don't know how we'll get trending. maybe Okay. Here's the answer. If you're listening to this right now, uh, go to blue sky. Yeah. Uh, and just, you know, we going out the blue sky got app and just the, or threads or whatever you use, you know, and just go out there and just make a post about this episode and hashtag it home burger.
00:02:54
Speaker
Hashtag home burger. yeah. Hashtag humor. It's like, you know, it's like Obama was president once again, you know? But so you were having a hashtag homeburger. as im Hashtag homeburger with some homemade ah macaroni salad.
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah. It's pretty good, man. What are we riding with this macaroni ah ah salad? This macaroni salad was very vegetable forward.
00:03:22
Speaker
So whole lot of celery. BF. A whole lot of carrots. A whole lot of of red peppers, red bell peppers. Yeah. And, you know, then from there, just a little bit of vinegar, a little bit of mayonnaise, some lemon juice. What, are we using Dukes?
00:03:41
Speaker
Nah, we're using Aldi's. Whatever Aldi's has. I think Aldi is still better than Hellman's. You don't like Hellman's? I'm not a Hellman's man.
00:03:53
Speaker
see but Not like Hikaru Sulu. Oh, brother. Yeah, no, I um like Hellman's. That's what they use at Jimmy John's.
00:04:07
Speaker
And that place has sandwiches there so fast, man. You'll freak.
Food Themes and Chicago Rivalries
00:04:12
Speaker
Jimmy John's is one of the places, like, you know, first off, all right, I have to say another thought that's in my head, which was ah somebody said on our Discord, which is in the the links, probably, but ah with this episode.
00:04:28
Speaker
Someone said on this Discord, i made I made a mistake listening to this podcast while I was hungry. Because we always talk...
00:04:37
Speaker
It's at the forefront of like what's on our minds as we come into these episodes. Yeah. i ah but ah But, then also, ah so Jimmy John's is one of the, a place now, like, you know, every, every fucking place is owned by a monster, like, you know, whatever.
00:04:58
Speaker
This monster plasters his face all over there yeah their stores. i see yeah I don't care for for James John. ah James Jonathan. James Jonathan.
00:05:10
Speaker
i like Which is a shame because it's like in in Chicago, like especially where when I first moved here, because they're both out of like this area. um when When I say they're both, I'm about to name another place. Potbelly.
00:05:23
Speaker
ah understand like like when I moved to Chicago that like that was a oh there's like this like fast food sandwich place I've never heard of and there's two different ones and they're in fierce competition like they're every fucking place Pop Ellie's and um ah Jimmy John's.
00:05:42
Speaker
I preferred ah Jimmy John's to Potbelly's because it's it's a it's a ah more straightforward sandwich. Potbelly's has like all extra crap.
00:05:52
Speaker
I like how how like you know it's straightforward to Jimmy John's is. But just when I heard that like Jimmy John is like a big game hunter and like just kind of like you can look him up.
00:06:04
Speaker
You could look at it. I don't even know if he's like involved with Jimmy John's anymore. and this Yeah. Yeah. This is a good transition because we are talking about Big Buck Hunter as our game. Yeah. Today's game Big Buck Hunter.
00:06:20
Speaker
uh the guy that i i stand with now if i'm getting i might have talked about this if i'm getting a fast food sandwich i'm gay getting ah a jersey mike uh like i like a jersey mike okay jersey mocks pretty good i had one just uh last week uh not bad but um anyway so i had a hashtag home burger what'd you have i had i made uh for for dinner tonight um Chipotle, orange, tofu, and cauliflower.
00:06:50
Speaker
Okay. I love every bit of that sentence. I, you know, listen, I'll, I'll be honest. I'm a straight shooter here.
00:07:02
Speaker
Kicked ass. This is how, this is how good it was. Ready for this? Y'all ready for this? I took out a pen and I like wrote next to the recipe in my cookbook, clean plate.
00:07:16
Speaker
Wow. You joined the clean plate club tonight. I was, a I was, I joined the clean plate club, but I like wrote in the cookbook. So when I'm flipping through it in the future, because and here's the thing I've never, my mom does that is that she'll write in a cookbook, like, uh, not too good or like needs more salt or like, you know,
00:07:38
Speaker
takes longer than it says, et cetera. And I, I've never, I've never been like, I've never done that. And then I started like, and lately I've had moments where I'm like, that's my favorite fucking thing in here. That's my favorite. Because I, I have a ton of cookbooks. I love cookbooks. Yeah.
Cooking, Memories, and Mental Blocks
00:07:54
Speaker
See, this is a brilliant a idea. i wish i did it i could emulate it. I can't write in books. Oh my God. Me neither. And they tried like, okay.
00:08:07
Speaker
All right. Stop the podcast. I can't do this. I, and I think it's a childhood growing up collecting comic books. I think it's what it is. And this idea that like, I'm keeping books in as pristine of condition as I can, but the thought of ever writing like in the margins,
00:08:25
Speaker
of highlighting a book. oh Oh my God. Like that sort of like just the book is ruined once it's marked on. I, I, I have that same mental block, even though multiple people, it's like, I have an English degree and like, that's something kind of integral.
00:08:43
Speaker
To have an English degree is like multiple, like starting in high school, I had like, there was a, like my AP English ah teacher was like, these are books purchased for you. They're not the property of the high school. Like, here's your copy of Wuthering Heights.
00:08:59
Speaker
Right. And it's like, right in this book. Like yeah that will help you like track like themes and point of view and like all that. And i like, I still have somewhere. I think, I think on one of my shelves, I might've finally let it go after a couple moves, but like a copy of crime and punishment where like the first chapter or two, I have like a couple notes where like I could, I could feel like my hand,
00:09:28
Speaker
just like Raskolnikov as he, you know, like, you know, was, was struggling inside himself. Yeah. yeah And like, and then like the rest of the book, ah completely ah free of notes. Also, I didn't finish it, but. Well, yeah, no, you don't need to.
00:09:45
Speaker
ways is What happens? I saw the crime. I don't need to read about the punishment. I saw the crime. He probably did the time. it's in yeah the title. yeah I mean,
00:09:56
Speaker
and This is how bad is for me. On two separate occasions in grad school, two separate professors called me out upon seeing a copy of a book I'd been assigned for class and accused me of not reading it because there was nary a mark anywhere in the book.
00:10:13
Speaker
it's just, I can't do it. I just, I could never do it. I've posted noted book. I could do that. I've posted noted a book. And I have friends who like had elaborate post-it noting systems with like different colors and all that sort of stuff.
00:10:27
Speaker
I could never be that. Yeah. No, no, no. Also used to have really good memory and I can just remember where shit was in books, but that shit sailed long ago. Yes.
00:10:38
Speaker
Here's the thing. I think the project of this podcast and like is us discovering that we have very similar
00:10:46
Speaker
I think so. yeah oh So here's my question, because this is true of me. Is it that you have a good memory or you just think you have a good memory? there were you two um Age has taught you that you don't have a good memory. yeah You see, I'm actually going to say here, there was a time when I had somewhat impressive memory.
00:11:14
Speaker
I wouldn't go so far as to call it like uncanny or anything, but I definitely know I do not have it anymore. I don't know where it went, but middle age has robbed me of, of this important talent. So yeah, I probably should start writing stuff in books now because I can't remember where I read anything anymore, ah which is a bummer. Now there is also the the absolute worst version of this. Have you ever bought a book been used?
00:11:42
Speaker
where someone who didn't know what they were doing had marked it up and like just put really banal oh observations in the margins and stuff like that. Especially like, you know, in college when you'd buy it like a used book. Yeah. ah Like that would happen. And I remember there was like, and I don't remember what the book was, but I do remember like buying like some novel used in college, like at the, you know, at the textbook reseller.
00:12:09
Speaker
and um like kind of rolling my eyes when i was like like thinking like why the fuck did this person highlight yeah like a moron this person must have been dumb dipshit yeah You know, once upon a time, back when my students actually would purchase and buy books before they just like decide not to do that part of of being in college anymore.
00:12:31
Speaker
I would occasionally also see like the the version of that where it's like I would see ah you know page of their textbook and every word but like three on it would be highlighted. Yeah, I saw that too. I remember seeing people do that in college too and just being like – yeah Is this just like kind of ah like a paint by numbers?
00:12:55
Speaker
ah Just wanted to make the the book look a little more interesting. But no, Ben, I just want to say the whole reason that we started down this road is like, I want to say I'm impressed that you overcame the hurdle of writing clean plate beside this recipe because that is I wish I could. This is it's also this is probably the cookbook that I use the most.
00:13:15
Speaker
And so it's already like dog-eared. And like the thing is, and like, this is true of like of, of, of the cookbooks that I use frequently is like, you can tell already, like you can tell the recipes that I like to go back to because the pages are all like fucked up anyway. Like they have like sweat, like the book is already run in.
00:13:40
Speaker
It's a well-loved cookbook. Yeah. um This is, by the way, How to Cook Everything Fast by Mark Bittman. And I can go ah ask me if if you care about it. Ask me why on the Discord, I guess.
00:13:53
Speaker
ah Yeah. But because I do think it's an excellent cookbook. And I do think there'll be a link to the Discord in the show notes. Perhaps. ah And i but ah but but but like so it's ah it's a pretty it's also like my Like I learned most of my cooking from my mother and ah like you look at her cookbooks and they are covered with it like, and she'll, she'll do like, and she's post-its and notes in the, in itself. And she, yeah, as I said, like there's a whole thing, you know, an interesting thing going back to you like notes that you found in, in books
00:14:38
Speaker
Which is, i there was a copy of, at my alma mater, there was a copy of, I think it was Faulkner's Light in August. Okay. ah Maybe it sounded fury, but I think it was Light in August.
00:14:53
Speaker
i where like this was a library copy, but like people were kind of penciling in like thoughts. And then on the back to like blank pages, there was like a, at least like a decade long, like, like bathroom wall discussion about the book.
00:15:11
Speaker
Oh, wow. Like people would write a couple sentences. Now this I like, and I was like, and I, I didn't have any, like, you know, I don't know if I have anything to add to the light August discussion.
00:15:23
Speaker
it's It's been on my reread as an adult list. That's still sitting. That was one of the books I got in high school. i like That's it's still sitting on on on the shelf. ah but ah But, you know, speaking of William Faulkner, Jess, we've got emails.
00:15:41
Speaker
That's from William Faulkner? From the Faulkner estate asking us not to talk about him anymore? Yeah.
00:15:54
Speaker
All right, let's take a look here. all right. Our first email is from Dan. Dan says, hi, Ben and Jess. Hope this email finds both well.
00:16:07
Speaker
Thank you. Well, one of us more so than the other. are Well, all right. Well, because he put me first and I appreciate it. Loving the podcast so far. I was born in 85.
00:16:20
Speaker
So right near me and cut my teeth on my older brother, Sierra Games on our 286.
00:16:26
Speaker
which I was my sister, my older sister had a 286 that she took to college. Yeah. And that's what we played wish breaker. Anyway, those old games and the memories I have playing them are still, are, are still very dear to me.
00:16:41
Speaker
It's been great to re-experience these games with you guys. Jess. There you go, Jess. Lock in. All right. going to start paying attention now. Yeah. Yeah.
Listener Stories: Gaming Memories and Experiences
00:16:52
Speaker
In the most recent episode, and this will be two before this one, you discussed Alien.
00:17:00
Speaker
Happy to report I had this one way back in the day. The opening storm sequence terrified me as a child. Would I still find it terrifying?
00:17:13
Speaker
Maybe I'll have to check out your recent playthrough and find out. Oh, that's a great question. I mean, first all, I've had several people come forward and say, I had this game too on social media.
00:17:26
Speaker
A lot of them say it's like, I've been trying to track down this game I played as a kid forever, and thank you for finally giving me the title of it. But yeah, that opening story sequence that talked about in my solo Quest Quest episode, is...
00:17:44
Speaker
pretty intense, like as a kid, that mounting sense of tension and just like, you know, the ominous idea that a storm is rolling in if you haven't found shelter in time is good stuff.
00:17:57
Speaker
I mean, a lot games since then have done that sort of thing even better. But for an early text adventure, I loved that bit about it. I think it is worth going back and revisiting. So there's there's a little more, to be honest.
00:18:11
Speaker
I'm not even sure where we got our copy of Alien. It was just one of those, and this is a ah proper nouns, games before time that I stumbled upon while poking around our 286 hard drive, along with along with titles like Bouncing Babies and Microsoft Decapitalize.
00:18:31
Speaker
It wasn't until much later that I'd have a chance to check out other text adventures like Infocom's offerings. Anyways, keep up the good work, guys. Thanks, Dan. Thank you, Dan.
00:18:43
Speaker
Got an email here from Jason. Hi, Jess and Ben. was one of those guys that didn't realize i was one of those people. I'm skipping ahead, adding a guy for reasons you'll understand.
00:18:54
Speaker
It's one of those people that didn't realize there was a Kickstarter from the two guys from Andromeda until years after it launched. I've followed the weirdness for few years now and I'd love to hear a podcast about it.
00:19:04
Speaker
Not for dirt or anything, but just because Space Quest was the first adventure game I ever played. inspired me so much that I made my parents take me to the original Sierra headquarters for a visit.
00:19:16
Speaker
Hold on!
00:19:20
Speaker
I've read this email and somehow I was just so focused on the space venture part of this that i this part of it kind of fell out of my head. Parentheses, where i actually got to meet Ken and Roberta Williams.
00:19:35
Speaker
Oh man.
00:19:38
Speaker
That's the dream. By the time i got to the Sierra headquarters, it was like a proctology office. And I didn't want meet that guy. Yeah. Not yet.
00:19:49
Speaker
Anyway, it's a fascinating project that feel has been overshadowed by ugliness. There's been Kickstarter drama. I remain a fan of Scott and Mark and am sad the experience and outcome more likely means that we will never get anything else from them. Thanks for the consideration. Love the show. Jason.
00:20:06
Speaker
Thank you, Jason, or for that one. um So here's the thing. We have not taught spoken, talked, spoken, whatever, about... but We haven't had a Space Quest episode, even though...
00:20:20
Speaker
You ran a space quest website that was so big in the nineties. It was listed in a magazine. It was, it was in books and things like when you used to be able to go out and buy like a book that just had all the websites in it.
00:20:35
Speaker
um And it was just like, here's one of the websites. It's ah it's Roger Wilco's virtual broom closet. Yeah, you know, think we've mentioned Space Quest a number of times offhandedly, but we haven't done like a deep dive into it. And have to assume that's coming. it Why haven't we talked about Space Quest? but Why won't you let me have a Space Quest episode?
00:20:54
Speaker
You know, I think part, well, yeah part of it is, is that we're already doing like kind of checking in on, on two Sierra series. Yes. Like we're, we're working through quest for glory and, and King's quest.
00:21:08
Speaker
um And, and so it's like, we don't. And police quest. or the words of jim wall yeah Three. So it's like, i yeah all right. So maybe, maybe why not? I guess. But also like,
00:21:21
Speaker
You know, i think the thing is, is that like, you know, this is time for my terrible admission, which is that I don't have the level of passion for Space Quest that Space Quest fans do.
00:21:34
Speaker
What? What? And that's, that's disappointing. um I mean, very passionate fan base as you well know.
00:21:44
Speaker
Yes, that's right. like Yeah. That is already being served ah by other content creators. So, you know, like we're a little bit off the hook on having to talk about space quest if we don't want to. But I want to like, like, so we'll, I will get to, to space quest and then we'll probably get to, to space venture ah ah with that.
00:22:03
Speaker
I mean, like in, in Jess, you alluded. Yeah. That's a, that's a good point. Like, it's like, ah you know, Watch all of Trolls' as videos. Yeah. Space Quest Historian has has given us exhaustive coverage of the Space Quest series. And I mean, my website's still out there. SpaceQuest.net's still out there. What does the WIW stand for that?
00:22:27
Speaker
Okay. So the yeah URL for that website is WIW.org forward slash Jess or tilde Jess, Roger.html. WIW stands for what is w i w
00:22:42
Speaker
Is that real? That's real. Apparently the guy who runs the server in chats used to frequently misspell wow when he would be chatting as WIW.
00:22:56
Speaker
And yeah, apparently he claims that WIW, that part of this yeah URL for this 1990s website stands for what is WIW. There's a real- Which very consistent man in the 90s answer.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say. i was going to say. There's a real 90s internet, like, yeah, sysop humor.
00:23:20
Speaker
Like, there's a real BBS type of humor there. yeah And I'm glad that we both, like, just immediately were like, yeah, that's how they were. Yeah, send that one into the letters column in 2600 or something. Yeah, that's... Wired. Yeah, that's...
00:23:36
Speaker
yeah I mean, he also gave me one of my favorite quotes of all time that I frequently use and have yet to have come back to haunt me. ah He would frequently say backups are bad
Retro Gaming Reflections
00:23:50
Speaker
karma.
00:23:51
Speaker
Which is a bold stance for a assisted man, but I kind of love the vibe of it. Like, I mean, obviously it'd be a tragedy if something went wrong.
00:24:04
Speaker
So preparing for it to go wrong is like inviting tragedy. Yeah. And speaking about inviting tragedy, Jess, what have you been playing?
00:24:16
Speaker
Ben, I have been playing. think this is probably one. What are you your Ambernic this week? It may not be on my Ambernic for all you know, Ben. I may have been playing on some other platform or device or whatever.
00:24:29
Speaker
it just so happens it was with my retro handheld that I was playing this week. I bet this is one you've played because I'm running like 22 years behind you right now. Ben, I've been playing Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga. Great game.
00:24:46
Speaker
amazing game great game uh this is with the game boy advance if y'all don't know it i it's completed that game which i rarely do yeah i mean i'm i'm like three hours in and just absolutely loving it if y'all don't know this one it's uh sort of a shoot offshoot of the Mario RPG and Paper Mario kind of franchise.
00:25:11
Speaker
It's a slightly simplified RPG with Mario and Luigi doing stuff in the Mushroom Kingdom and everything else. It has some of the like timing-based attacks and dodges that you might know from, say, Paper Mario Thousand Year Door or or other games in the series like that.
00:25:32
Speaker
It is just charming. The level of writing in it is much better than it should be. Like, for a portable game, it looks gorgeous, like most everything does on the Game Boy Advance. It seems like, ah just what a nice-looking system.
00:25:48
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I bought that at, I did have that. I bought that at release. I had it on, I had, uh, one of the, like the second gen, like flippy Game Boy advances.
00:26:01
Speaker
Uh, I had like this, uh, like kind of like Indigo, uh, Game Boy advance. I, I have a very intense memory of sitting on like the floor, maybe the beanbag chair in my childhood bedroom, where I guess the teenage hood bedroom, like playing like the final boss, like, finally beating that game there. Like that was a game I could not
00:26:34
Speaker
put down the GBA. If you are opening up the GBA back catalog for the first time, i you're you're going to have a good time.
00:26:45
Speaker
The GBA has excellent back catalog. There are a ton of bangers in there. Yeah, I mean, with the retro handheld, one thing that's nice about it, mean, this thing can play you know PlayStation games or Super NES games or Dreamcast games or things like that.
00:27:02
Speaker
But the nice thing about playing GBA games or really any portable game is already they've taken into consideration things like, oh, you're playing this on a small screen, so we're not going to use the tiniest...
00:27:16
Speaker
typeface possible for the UI. I mean, it's it the perfect little handheld device to be playing ah to be playing GBA games on. And oh man this one's so good. I mean, I love Thousand Year Door. I'm sure you knew that, right? You I was a Thousand Year Door guy. Oh, yeah.
00:27:33
Speaker
huge thousand year door guy. And I didn't play until years and years later. I didn't have a game. A thousand years later? It was literally a thousand years later. I walked the door and I said, I'm going to pick up this game and play it. And I called that door the thousand year door.
00:27:52
Speaker
here's ah Here's my thing about Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga is as like, i I played it, I played the hell out of it. I like beat the hell out of it. I had a wonderful time.
00:28:05
Speaker
And then I never completed or enjoyed quite the same way another Mario and Luigi again. I was just like, wow, wow this game was excellent.
00:28:17
Speaker
And it has fulfilled that need. You know what I mean? Like, I was just like, I don't need it. That's the perfect Yeah. No, I mean, there's something about a game that's like, yeah, that itch is scratched now. I don't need to, I don't need to go back to that genre necessarily. It was a very thorough got it in one.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah. Where I was just like, I just don't need more. And like, I would go back every now and again, be like, oh, maybe I'll like this new one. Oh, this one, like, you know, added this thing. And I go and I play it and I, you know, maybe even make it far. I made it Bowser's Inside Story is pretty good.
00:28:54
Speaker
like, I didn't play it all the way, like, because, like, I played it and i was just like, you know what? Like, I, like, it's already, it was just a got in one. Like, I really think, what i will say to you, though,
00:29:08
Speaker
is that if you are enjoying instead of moving on to another Mario & Luigi, I say this to the listeners too, if you like Mario & Luigi, this is a, like kind of a hidden gem, a GBA game I was playing, I played on my Android. It's a game that did not come to the United States. You have to get like a fan translation.
00:29:32
Speaker
It's this game, it's the first game that that studio made, ah which is called Tomato Adventure. Oh. And so like you have to, and it's not that like, and I want to be clear, this is not,
00:29:47
Speaker
Like, this sounds technical and complicated. It's not. Like, you just have to, like like, find Tomato Adventure and then, like, run the patch on it in the same way that you would another recommended GBA game, Mother 3.
00:30:02
Speaker
You just run it, like, through this program. It automatically patches it. takes, like, it's not very hard. And...
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, Tomato Adventure, if you enjoy, and the fan translation I thought was pretty good. um if If you enjoy Mario and Luigi, Tomato Adventure is like really cute and clever.
00:30:25
Speaker
And, you know, it's outside of... Because I think after Mario and Luigi, that's all they did. or like, I think that they they were just kind of in the the Nintendo world yeah after that. like And so, Tomato Adventure is is kind of a a fun like, it's like, oh, what would they do if they didn't have, ah like, the, you know, Mario, like the Mushroom Kingdom to play around in? Yeah.
00:30:51
Speaker
And yeah, play Mother 3, but I mean, you've had the whole internet tell you that. so Yeah, no, I've heard i've heard about this Mother 3 before. You don't need... Did you ever play Earthbound? No, I didn't.
00:31:03
Speaker
I probably should. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I tried playing Harvest Moon for the first time the other day. you play? It's nothing like that. It's just cute. Yeah. Did you play Stardew Valley?
00:31:16
Speaker
No. I've never done farming sim. You know what? Like, here's the thing. I got really into Stardew Valley and I had a lovely time and like I played the hell out of it. And then like I played a little bit of like,
00:31:29
Speaker
you know, like the game Harvest Moon and all that. And I was just like, oh, no. sort Like it's another case of it's like, no, I already, this itch is taken care of. Done.
00:31:41
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, you know, like it's funny. I played Undertale, which is a game that is intensely, you know, certainly inspired by Earthbound.
00:31:58
Speaker
And I played that first and then i was like, I guess I should play like Mother 3 and Earthbound. And I played both. Didn't finish either. And it was just like, Yeah, pretty good. Well, there you have it.
00:32:10
Speaker
You know what? Video games? yeah Sometimes they're pretty good. Pretty good. Mother 3. Like, yeah. Mother 3 is cool because it's it's it's just part of... Like you played and you're like, man, the GBA just had some real bangers.
00:32:22
Speaker
Like yeah it just really, it it surprises you as a platform when you play it. There's some really kind of surprising games on the Boy Color too. I recommend taking a look at some of the the Game Boy, like Game Boy Color Zeldas aren't like incredible or great, but they're interesting.
00:32:41
Speaker
In fact, all of the portable like Zeldas, Like, what it? Minish Cap. Minish Cap is fantastic. Yeah. Like all all of those are are pretty neat. Like they're not going to, no one's going to be like, oh, it's like Hock Arena or whatever. like yeah and Like Link's Awakening is obviously like, that's the gold standard of them. Everything after that is not like quite up to that, but they're all pretty, like there' you play them, you're like, huh? Oh, ah good good yeah, good. Yalta's pretty good. Yeah.
00:33:12
Speaker
Anyway. Ben, enough about me. Right. What have you been playing? And don't try to use this as a segue. Oh, all right. Yeah. You know what? For segue purposes, I'll turn off the music.
00:33:24
Speaker
Oh gosh. That's how serious this is. Yeah. That's how serious this is. So, uh, so recently, so two things happened recently. One is, is that you got a DM.
00:33:36
Speaker
Is that right? it was a DM. Cause it wouldn't have been an email because I have access to the email. and Yes. And you won't give it to me. No, I refuse. I don't, I never see any of the people who write in say, it's like, Jess, we love what you do on the podcast.
00:33:48
Speaker
You should talk more and not let Ben dominate. There's a massive trash can, like yeah Gmail trash can of all the just, just centric fan mail.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, and I've never seen a word of it. So keep writing. i wish I had my own email address, but you know, signed those over to Ben when we did the paperwork to create this LLC. So two things happened. One of them is I just got a DM. The DM was of who from?
00:34:17
Speaker
Wait, now what DM are we talking? I make sure that we, or was ah you got ah the the game codes for the the game. i'm about Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got the game codes. That's right. was making sure i was on the site because we've gotten some other interesting DMs recently. No, no, no, no. We'll, we'll do those DMs. We'll talk about later. The saucy ones.
00:34:37
Speaker
Oh, the saucy DMs. That's right. Yeah. though the The secret DMs. Oh, you see, now I'm on the right page, Ben. ah Ben, we received a ah DM from ah dave Lloyd, ah part of ah power Power Hoof.
00:34:57
Speaker
who recently released a a game, The Drifter, one that's been getting a lot of attention in adventure gaming circles. And he was kind enough to share with us. He's a listener. Hey, hey Dave, I hope you're listening now.
00:35:12
Speaker
ah He was kind enough to to share with us ah keys for The Drifter, some Steam keys. So that's part one of this story. So that's part one of the story.
00:35:23
Speaker
Thank you, Dave. ah Part two of the story is that I got COVID. yes So I'm sitting here stuck inside my my my fucking palatial mansion.
00:35:38
Speaker
and you know he sent his servants home yeah i said i don't want to give my servants covid oh uh they'd have to take time off yeah yeah um and i had them work for me yeah oh remotely yeah yeah um uh uh so like you know here i am covid in one hand and
00:36:03
Speaker
Just a much better spit take. And then in the other hand, they saw this but Steam code for this this game that's getting a lot of ah positive buzz out there. And I was like, right. deck friendly.
00:36:18
Speaker
ah and Oh, yeah, that's deck friendly, which is very important because I was in bed. And that's so yeah, that's also that's that's an important component to this story is that like I'm in bed, ah my whole fucking body hurts, and I've got my steam deck. I'm not gonna finish reading the Elmore Leonard book I'm i'm working on.
00:36:40
Speaker
It's pretty good. um ah Freaky deaky. It's fine. anyway uh uh but uh i was like i you know i have my steam deck and i'm like all right well i guess i'll i'll start this game just not two hours ago i rolled credits on it so like that was a like in a couple days i like burnt through eight and a half hours bang bang bang done with this game uh And I've been getting ah some messages along the way about how much you've been enjoying this, right? This is a game that, that really grabbed you.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It's a game. And like, it is like, and this is how they they advertise it. This is it. Like it has good pacing and I'm, I'm a ah pace freak.
00:37:29
Speaker
Oh man. You know, I have never thought about pacing adventure games more than I have the last week or so. Why? um what did just want No reason. I mean, you know. What's making you think about pace? Is it because you're playing something that's really well paced?
00:37:48
Speaker
Well, no, it's not that. um You're close.
00:37:55
Speaker
Am i warm? know I mean, i am playing a game that pacing has really struck me. um And that we don't want to dwell on this because this will eventually, i think, probably be an episode where I just like rant and rave 75 minutes. But I've been playing Simon the Sorcerer.
00:38:14
Speaker
And God, that thing that is just... A beloved classic. And I'm sorry to all the listeners who like their ears perked up in their car as they're commuting to work. He's like, oh, they're going to talk about Simon the Sorcerer. friend Jess.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yeah, but whose opinions I respect. And we tend to like a lot of the same games. And surely this like top 20 of all time adventure has made an impression on him as he's played it for the first time.
00:38:37
Speaker
I don't like Simon the Sorcerer. But that's beside the point. Ben, this is a game with good pacing. Simon the Sorcerer is dead on the screen like this is this is how like they it has pretty straightforward uh puzzles it has like good it has kind of this um uh like it it a very kind of like pulp uh kind of like hooky story that like kind of it's broken up into chapters and it like they all have uh ah like, I wouldn't say they have cliffhanger endings, but they do have, like, you're you're kind of enticed. You're like, I want to know what happens next. It's not like, but um though I did love the the episodes end with continue or save and quit, which I thought was great. I was like, you hit save and quit, doesn't even put you in the main menu, kicks you out of the fucking game. You're back in, you're back in steam.
00:39:31
Speaker
There you go. ah I like game that respects my time. It's just like, all right, you're done. Get out. Can grab a snack? Yeah. Oh yeah. You can get a snack. ah yeah Um,
00:39:46
Speaker
but ah But yeah, it's it's a really, ah like, it's got really great pace as good voice acting, which, like, you know, I've been playing on my stream ah recently. I've been playing Locomotive, which we've already talked about on this podcast.
00:40:02
Speaker
You should play that, too. And, like, both of these games, excellent voice performances, really, like, really striking ah voice performances in both of them.
00:40:14
Speaker
um but uh but but yeah i uh like so i was laid up in bed for for a bit i think you can tell feeling better so don't you know i feel pretty good i'm on jess i think right now i'm on like kind of that that manic kick of i'm not feeling sick anymore you know that feeling like yes yes yes absolutely full rush of like, ooh Oh, like, you know, always do that day too. I'm like, I'm going to push myself to my limits to prove I'm no longer sick.
00:40:50
Speaker
And then usually get like a full day of rebound sickness because of how like, I'm aware of that. Yeah, I'm like, I'm going hard.
Exploring Games for Grownups
00:40:58
Speaker
As soon as the the first time I don't cough within 10 minutes of waking up, I'm going out and rubbing my COVID face and everybody I see.
00:41:05
Speaker
And you know, just really just out there in the world. No, I'm playing it easy. I'm still having you know so not mixing it up, but i'm just I've got the the manic energy. I've been like kind of bouncing around the walls. No, no.
00:41:22
Speaker
And, uh, but, uh, but yeah, like, so, ah I played it and it, it kind of actually kind of spun up the, the idea uh, what we're going to talk about in, uh, today's podcast, like, i don't know, 40 minutes in, uh, which is, uh, grownup, like games for grownups.
00:41:45
Speaker
Now, of course, like, what does that mean? and what do I mean when I say that? Like, you know, kid, I mean, I wouldn't recommend this game for, for kids. It's got a lot of blood.
00:41:58
Speaker
It's kind of scary. It's not like, especially like it's, if if you're not into horror, which I'm not like, you're not going to be like, you know, terrified. Um, but you know, it's spooky.
00:42:09
Speaker
Uh, and it's, it's bloody. And it also like, It's about serious adult themes. Yeah. And not like, you know, like fucking or whatever. Like, it's like, it's about loss and it's about trauma.
00:42:22
Speaker
And it's about like, i' i like, you know, how people treat like the homeless. Like it it, it uses, it uses a bunch of ideas that, you know, if I played this as a child, if I mean, if I played this as a 10 year old, it would scare the shit out of me because I was a sensitive little boy.
00:42:41
Speaker
um like space quest 5 here's a little preview space quest 5 scared the shit out of me i had to delete the game after i saw captain quirk's face melting off yeah which is why ben won't let me have a space quest episode yeah every time like let's do that my trauma yeah and i respect that but it's a like and so You know, when I say grown-up games, I mean games that i like
00:43:12
Speaker
that are are made thinking of an audience of adults that like you know generally kind of respects their intelligence.
00:43:23
Speaker
This doesn't mean... like It's like, obviously, and we're going to talk about like the Leisure Suit Larry games, obviously. um i ah But like you played those as a kid. Absolutely. talked about this.
00:43:34
Speaker
yeah um no yeah as a kid who probably was not ready to play the leisure suit larry games as a as a particularly naive child in the ways of uh in the ways of love making unlike now i'm laughing about a i'm thinking of a funny garfield i read um oh you must have read that garfield too yeah that's
00:44:00
Speaker
Actually, before we get into this, I mean, I don't even know, like, are we cool to talk about that? Let me ask you a few questions just before we jump into it. Oh, sure. Yeah. Ask me questions to like, are you trying to prove if I'm an adult?
00:44:14
Speaker
I mean, I don't want to say what I'm trying to prove or not prove. But if I ask you, Johnny Carson is a ah singer. B, David Letterman's sidekick.
00:44:26
Speaker
C, Ed McMahon's sidekick. Or D, an actor. What would you answer? ah Hmm. Uh, uh, uh, uh, an actor Oh, man.
00:44:42
Speaker
ah Okay, question number two. I'm not gonna tell you how you do on that one. Pia Zadora is hey ah sexy. Okay, be a singer.
00:44:53
Speaker
hey See short or D all of the above.
00:45:01
Speaker
can i I understand the bit that we're doing, but like can I also say, like I think the thing that Pia Zadora is famous for, and this isn't famous for, you know if you have a memory back to, i don't know, 30 years ago, is trying to buy an Oscar or something.
00:45:19
Speaker
Oh, really? i think she did. Hold on. Let me, am I, am I going to go to like, am I defaming her? I'm pretty sure like there was a big, oh no I know this, uh, she was in, uh, the, let's see film.
00:45:32
Speaker
and Like,
00:45:37
Speaker
right.
00:45:40
Speaker
right Well, nothing's showing up on the, the old Wikipedia. So maybe I'm, maybe I'm, Okay, apologies to Pia Zadora. Pia Zadora. i I swear, i you know what? I'm not going to. There's too much on this this Wikipedia page.
00:45:57
Speaker
Okay, Ben, Ted Kennedy is best remembered for his a driving, okay B, underwater freestyle, C, brothers, or D, all of the above.
00:46:11
Speaker
Well, there's only one Kennedy I know right now, and I admire him entirely. um oh oh i i mean, these are tough. I mean, these these ah so far have not verified to me that you're 18 or older.
00:46:25
Speaker
Someone who's 18 or older would have and comprehensive knowledge of Spiro Agnew, who makes up, it looks like roughly 10% of the age verification verification questions in Leisure Suit Larry 1.
00:46:39
Speaker
I mean, this is what I faced as 12 year old was, you know, this, this challenge of how do I get into this game with all these different questions, but I was also a 12 year old who owned encyclopedias.
00:46:52
Speaker
So in fact, I was able to access Leisure Suit Larry quite easily and experience all of its adult themes and content. Jess, I was listening to most of this, but I've discovered, I'm looking at like a Hollywood reporter story about how ah like there was like, they that this is like an unfair accusation that was made of her. I'm going to assume it's probably like sexist or something.
00:47:18
Speaker
So I take it back. I'm so sorry, Pia Zadora, for perpetuating a harmful myth. Wow. Also, I only know Pia Zadora from Santa Claus Conquers Martian.
00:47:31
Speaker
I only know her from the leisure suit Larry age verification test. Oh, but no, I mean, you've never played Larry, right? i I, have tootled around in the first Larry and that's it.
00:47:45
Speaker
Okay. So I'm guessing that means probably you didn't play Larry's predecessor soft porn adventure either. No. Have you played soft porn adventure? I've played soft porn adventure.
00:47:57
Speaker
It was on one of the Larry collections through the years. Oh, didn't like Al Lowe, like say it was like written as if like it was written by an engineer or something like that. Like, didn't he? I think so. Yeah. I think you said that. Yeah.
00:48:09
Speaker
And wasn't the joke you'd have to be wearing a leisure suit to enjoy this game or something like that. i thought Yeah. um I mean, Yeah, sophomore adventure, this text adventure that was eventually turned into a leisure suit Larry in the land of the lounge lizards.
00:48:23
Speaker
You know, part of this, you know, sort of early era of adult themed adventure games. Did you know that sophomore adventure is set in a post-apocalyptic future?
00:48:34
Speaker
I think that's like a fun fact that somebody told me once and I was like, what? Huh? Yeah. It's like in a post atomic future. Uh, like I'll know why you're set up to a guy going to Las Vegas trying to get laid would be,
00:48:48
Speaker
would need like the framing of you know uranium clouds in the skies and things like that but seems like one of those things that like probably like whoever designed that like you know put in there to just kind of amuse himself like it's like yeah gonna make like this little like sexy little adventure game and uh like in like this this text adventure that leisure suit Larry one's based off of And, uh, and you know what? I'm just going to like throw this in here as a non sequitur.
00:49:18
Speaker
That's a pretty good joke. Honestly. It's pretty good joke. I mean, I'm, I'm here for it. And I mean, there are a lot of games that would follow up on, on this sort of model trying to engage with, uh, with sex and naughty things like that. mean, what Infocom had the leather goddess goddesses of Phobos, which has a like also like, uh,
00:49:41
Speaker
there was a ah sequel. Yeah. I've got the title here. Leather goddesses of Phobos to gas pump girls meet the pulsating inconvenience from planet X.
00:49:53
Speaker
which is, i mean, if that doesn't grab you, I don't know what will. You've got games like Spellcasting 101 and all, it's like frat boy fantasy sex romp. So it's, it's revenge of the nerds turned into like having the sorcerer.
00:50:12
Speaker
So here's, here's my question for you, Jess. It's like, so within the parameters of like grownup games. So it's like, now we're talking like a little bit about like adult games. Yes. ah Games because, you know, this is why, like if, if I say adult games, you know, it it just has the connotation of, of sex games.
00:50:31
Speaker
18 plus rate M for mature. So, so Do you, how, how much of the audience do you think is like, how aware of it is like Leisure Suit Larry that like, you know, 12 year olds are playing it. Like he had to have like a pretty good sense, right?
00:50:49
Speaker
I mean, I think Leisure Suit Larry in particular, and most of these other games I've played, like, you know, less manly, ah you know, Rex Nebular kind of dips into this territory a little bit.
00:51:03
Speaker
generally speaking, most of these games, whether intentionally or not, come across, in my experience, as certainly little bit more juvenile and adolescent. Like, I don't think anyone would mistake Leisure Suit Larry for, like, a an adult perspective on sex and relationships. I mean, and maybe if there are people like that out there, that's upsetting ah to some degree. Yeah, I mean, to me, these feel like you know, games that are made for probably a teenage audience that likes the idea of boobs as much as they do a fart joke.
00:51:42
Speaker
In most cases. That's my take on Maybe yeah I don't know. I think there are probably some of these erotic games that try to strike a more mature like cocktail vision.
00:51:53
Speaker
ah Yeah, before I was gonna say that. Goblins three very sexy. Oh my god. Yes. ah Finally, someone said it right now. But i mean, they had like what?
00:52:05
Speaker
Geisha, fascination, Emmanuel. They had a series of these that were all. Did they do deja Was that them? i don't think that was them. Or am I thinking of something else?
00:52:18
Speaker
I might be, I might be mixing. Yeah. i But i mean, I think those were aimed. I don't know that anyone looks upon those games particularly fondly as like great, uh, you know, great adult, uh, you adventures necessarily. But I think when you're dealing with, especially comedy adult, you know, sexy games, generally, i think they're aiming for like a 14 year old boy is the target audience on those.
00:52:49
Speaker
and And those with, ah who are 14 year old boys at heart, which is a lot of people. um Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we, you know, many of us have ah the spirit of our 14 year old boy selves inside of us. And there's fun to be had with that. But yeah, I don't know.
00:53:08
Speaker
i don't know. This is the kind of, mean, this isn't the kind of mature or adult that, the drifter is yeah or a lot of the other games we want to talk about i mean there is a hardcore sex scene yeah but uh but other than that yeah i mean yeah just because there's a hardcore sex scene i mean if that's the case king's quest five yeah like yes yeah sure yeah sure yeah Yeah. Then yeah. One scene is an adult a game. if If you count all the like, yes, like mixed up mother goose. Sure. Yeah. One scene doesn't like dictate the whole tone of a, yeah. Of a game. Yeah. ah
00:53:45
Speaker
But yeah, i mean, Ben, have you ever played into these sexy games before we move on to talk about maybe some other definitions of what adult or mature might look like? ah Do you, do you have a sexy game past?
00:53:58
Speaker
No. That's true. It's also, it's like not only, i saint but it's it's, it's not even like a saintly thing. Like it's, it's, it's, it's it's more that it's just like,
00:54:15
Speaker
they there's part of those laser suit larry games that uh they're terrible uh age 12 they weren't cool then some of those parts all right well like yeah it was like you were handed things that were like rotten milk now it's like 30 years beyond that yeah that rotten milk that you started with has become something even worse yes ah Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:54:44
Speaker
There's, there's some, up there's a reason why I've, I've streamed a few Lucian suit Larry games and there are others that I will never stream. I remember, I have a strong memory and I don't like, I I'm sure you'll know which Larry it is. I don't know, but like,
00:55:02
Speaker
I was like streaming something once and I was I was like rapping I'm like oh yeah I'll raid into someone and like people are chat I was like does anyone have a suggestion someone's like oh so and so is ah playing I think it was like five ah like leisure suit Larry five and then like a person popped in and was like oh my god ah she's getting to we have to go in there now was that five is five the one with like the horribly racist scene or is that another one Well, I mean, five is the most egregious. I'm referring to the most egregious race. Yes.
00:55:38
Speaker
yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, five. I mean, those who aren't familiar has... in the year 1990-whatever, a ah sequence involving blackface that doesn't play then and certainly doesn't play now very well. And then there are problematic bits.
00:55:58
Speaker
I mean, in all the... But, I mean, five and six, I think in particular. Six is pretty nasty in a lot of ways. And not one that I think is held up at all. But, yeah ah yeah, I mean, this is...
00:56:11
Speaker
yeah I think again, that sort of pushing the boundaries of of PC culture, you know, I guess as they would have called it. We never got that el low, ah like ah political political satire game, which capital punishment.
00:56:27
Speaker
Oh, man, he would have. Yeah, he would have really, yeah you know, given us something to think about when it comes to the Whitewater scandal.
00:56:39
Speaker
ye Oh, yeah. Yeah, that Whitewater scandal. Do you remember, can you imagine if a politician today speculated on real estate?
00:56:53
Speaker
Like, yeah, we had end of career. take these things so much more seriously now. Whitewater scandal. ah but Yeah, but yeah, Larry, um I can, I mean, i again, my parents...
00:57:08
Speaker
I have told the story before, but my mom like got me this for my 12th birthday and she played it before she gave it to me. i was like, yeah, this is a game appropriate to Jess. Yeah. Just like hand this to him. And then they never ever, uh, had the talk with them. Maybe the leisure suit Larry one was the talk.
00:57:26
Speaker
Maybe that was in lieu of me learning about the birds and the bees from them. I'm not sure. So when we were when we were a talking about this, like I kind of split it up into like three three kind of ways. But I'm sure there is there's even other ways you could split this up. And and like things don't fit even neatly into this. But I was thinking of like there's adult games, which we just spoke about.
00:57:55
Speaker
um And then there's ah stuff that is like a little more like maybe densely wordy. um Like that is like kind of grown up in like kind of a like a literature way.
00:58:11
Speaker
And then there's there's like stuff that might be inappropriate, like because it is. um uh like because it might be like too scary or or like you know have have stuff and again like you know a lot of a friend of mine watched uh fire walk with me when she was like 10 or 11 i don't know if you've seen that movie uh jess that's the twin peaks movie uh i have not seen it uh but not a movie to watch as a child and i was like uh
00:58:46
Speaker
What did you think about this movie that yeah has that is, that has 1 billion percent inappropriate for kids when you watched it as a kid? She's like, I liked it. but What a... That's odd. Sure. ah sure She's great.
00:59:04
Speaker
You know what? i it Maybe it twisted her just the right way, you know? There you have it. But, um... i so Like, that you know, I would say like a game like the The Drifter, like it deals with like mature themes, which I would like say, like kind of put it in, and ah you know, one part of that category. Like you're talking about trauma and talking about loss and talking about like, you know, the unhoused and and yeah stuff like that.
00:59:36
Speaker
not adult like as in boobs, but rather in like things like existential dread and grief and aging, addiction and themes that yeah, kids aren't looking for in a video game.
00:59:49
Speaker
And so, ah like to, you know, so, so talking about like ones, uh, games I've, I've played that are a little more like kind of like meant for grownups, like kind of in how they tackle themes, stuff like that, you know, I'll return to Norco.
01:00:11
Speaker
Like we don't have to you know, go all the way on that. We have a whole fucking podcast about that. It is a good one. Good game. Good episode. I was, uh, Jess, I was, uh, at, uh, uh, a party where, ah the, the podcast came up because i was talking to someone who may be future guest, which you and I yeah know about, but so like the podcast came up because I was pitching it to this person.
01:00:38
Speaker
And ah then like other people like kind of came up and they're like, oh, you do a podcast. What about venture games? And the person like looked at me and goes, have you done one about Norco?
01:00:49
Speaker
And that was the win that we had just put out. Like I was like, oh like we just released an episode on Norco a couple days ago.
01:01:01
Speaker
said we hated it. Yeah. It was dog shit. I can't believes but believe you can bring up.
01:01:08
Speaker
and
01:01:14
Speaker
yeah but no norco is a great example of this i mean again i there may be kids any older teenagers or something they grab a game like that it might uh might appeal to them but mean this is dealing with you know family trauma it's dealing again with you know the ah the plight of the unhoused in its own way I mean it is it's engaging you know with with illness and death and sanity at some level and you know it's ah yeah so like you know the like what
01:01:50
Speaker
you know, like the, the tragedy of like hurricane Katrina and stuff like that. Like, yeah. And it is also like extremely fucking dense in words. Like it is, it's reading a book when you play that game.
01:02:07
Speaker
Yeah. um And, and it, it, it expects you to like be on that level with you. Like I like playing ah game Like I like playing a game like Norco, not only because it's like beautiful and it touched me, but also because like it treats me like a ah grownup. Like it's like, I have all these big ideas that you have to kind of sit with, you know? yeah You may actually have to do those things you learned in your high school English class of like thinking about themes.
01:02:41
Speaker
yeah true yeah it's like My monitor was covered with penmarks
01:02:50
Speaker
They didn't make any sense. I would hit, you know, I was like, wait, what? I was highlighting passages. And then, and then I was just, it was just a mess.
01:03:04
Speaker
That's why I keep one of those like clear, uh, whiteboards. Like you see a movie sometimes, uh, to write all this sort of stuff down on. It's very impractical, but it looks very futuristic and cool. The transparent whiteboard, uh,
01:03:19
Speaker
So, yeah no, I mean, this one, you know, thought of some other games. Yeah, I have a couple, two in this category. I'm guessing you're going mention Kentucky Route Zero. Yeah, that is exactly what I was going to talk about next.
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, hit me with that one. Kentucky Route Zero is like in the same way like of of Norco is that it's like this really beautifully written game. that like, and, and also is like beautiful to, to look at and to hear, ah you know, we've already talked about it's incredible music.
01:03:51
Speaker
um it It is a game that is like, I think if I played it as a kid, I'd be like kind of intrigued by it, but probably bored by it because it's just a lot of like, it's again,
01:04:11
Speaker
It's a fucking novel. And it's a novel about, like, again, big ideas. It's about addiction and loss and not, like, and and the people who are forgotten.
01:04:25
Speaker
And, like, trying to to ah pull yourself out of, like, a tragedy and people who are left behind. um and And so many other... And it has a lot of, like, very, like, you know, capital B, capital I, big ideas.
01:04:42
Speaker
And... um And what what I like, you know, I think about Norco and I think about ah Kentucky Route Zero. um And what i what I like about those those games is also it's like both of them aren't like they they don't give you...
01:05:02
Speaker
everything that you you want and by that i mean like it doesn't tie up everything in nice tidy package gonna find people like kind of like kind of pissed off online because they're gonna be annoyed that like oh it doesn't resolve the plot or whatever like in norco there are people like oh boy what is this what is this yeah it's like it doesn't even super clearly tell you exactly what you just played yeah and i kind of love that about the like yeah Like there's there's like the end sequence of of Norco, you're starting to enter like some stuff that's just straight up metaphor.
01:05:38
Speaker
Like, it's just yeah like you're you're you're like, I don't know what's going on. And in the case of Norco, like, you know, the the people that made it have a very clear vision of what it is. And like.
01:05:51
Speaker
ah you know, put out little drips and drabs. Like there's a little thing you could find on it that kind of spells some stuff out. But like I have the Norco that I walked away from ah with it and like because of its ambiguities and because of like kind of like the big blank spots that it leaves open uh within like the text and so i'm kind of like well you know i i believe that this means this and it's the same like it's the same with kentucky route zero is that it's like it's a ah game that isn't interested in in giving you everything and maybe the people that made it
01:06:29
Speaker
like have everything maybe they don't uh i don't i don't care to have like the the people that made kentucky read zero like sit down and be like this is what i meant this is why you're constantly saying death to all authors yeah and uh that's why this is the last uh podcast because there's like you know uh 20 fucking federal troops right out outside my door oops they caught me uh Well, it was bound to happen, folks. Thanks for listening.
01:07:04
Speaker
Kill the music. Kill the music. what What other games for grownups? I have a couple others in my, my but please. you know yeah I mean, one that struck me, and this isn't one. I actually haven't finished this, so i need to go back and revisit it. But I played it a bit at release.
01:07:18
Speaker
um Night in the Woods, I think. I got to fucking play that. I think I have it, too. Yeah, no, I played it released and got distracted by something. kind Ben, what year do you think Night in the Woods came out?
01:07:34
Speaker
I'm thinking 2016. 2017. You see, I would put like but ta is me i think I think that's where what you were going for. But I think like, because once again, the project of this podcast is actually, it's not about adventure games. It's actually about us like kind of, and I think of it as a 2020 game because for some reason I had a ton of free time in 2020. And so that was like one of the things of it's like, oh, I'll play this because I have a ton of free time.
01:08:05
Speaker
And so that's kind of why I associate with 2020. Yeah. If you know that in the woods, I mean, it's It's an adorable looking game about a ah cat, which, you boy, kids love cats and stuff. All right, well, guess you're wrong.
01:08:21
Speaker
It has like a storybook ah kind of aesthetic to it. Very beautiful. But again, it's dealing with a little bit weightier themes. You have a college dropout who's coming back to her hometown and reconnecting with old friends she hasn't seen since she went away to college.
01:08:41
Speaker
and realizing how much her town has changed. It's not the same place it was when she left it. um I mean, at some level, it's basically like The Graduate. ah it's It's the Catuit.
01:08:52
Speaker
It's the Catuit. It's Garden State. It's the Garden State of video games. Just rewatched The Graduate ah for the first time since high school. Yeah? How did it hold up? Like, oh.
01:09:06
Speaker
Ooh. Oh, yeah. Oh, that they actually hit a lot harder. It hit me a lot harder as a grown up. Like when I watched in high school, I was I was too actually kind of caught up because The Graduate might be one of the most referenced non like genre movies like and yeah like Star Wars or like or maybe like Ciz and Cain is probably also one of the most.
01:09:32
Speaker
Yeah. But like The Graduate is definitely up there. And like when I was watching the graduate for the first time. i ah i I was just so focused on it's like Wayne's World did that.
01:09:44
Speaker
This was in The Simpsons. This was in The Simpsons. This was in The Simpsons. This was in The Simpsons. This was in The Critic. I think when i first but I first watched it, I don't think I had experienced ennui yet and didn't have a good appreciation for this ah for this emotional state. Exactly. now I get it. for Exactly. Exactly.
01:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, I think, yeah, jokingly, but think not in the woods is is dipping into some similar ah territory with that again, a beloved game when I go and fish, but i think it fits neatly in this. kind I think what's interesting about this one to me, especially as the juxtaposition of what could eat it almost looks like.
01:10:30
Speaker
I don't know, like construction paper cutout, you know, children's book graphics, children's storybook graphics combined with a yeah pretty weighty things in a way.
01:10:41
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah uh i i have to check that out i think i might have it i think that might have been in an itch bundle was gonna say it feels like a game that anyone who plays adventure games has in gog or itch or steam if not multiple i think i have it somewhere and everyone that's ever bought a bundle has bought some bundle probably that has given them not in the woods by now um Here's one.
01:11:08
Speaker
and This is one of my my recent favorites. ah Perfect Tides. Oh, Perfect Tides. There's some on way. There's that's that's a heavy that's a heavy on we game.
01:11:22
Speaker
That's ah the game. ah Perfect Tides is a game by i believe ah Meredith Grand. Yeah, which is it's getting a sequel. I think next year.
01:11:34
Speaker
soonish um yeah soonish and uh and i was such a big fan perfect this is how much i like perfect ties i kick-started the sequel uh to whatever the cost was to get my uh to be a ah silent bystander in the background uh so my face is going to be in there somewhere i'm pretty sure it's Can you ask her if your character can be wearing a quest quest t-shirt? Yeah, that would be great. Oh, that would be such great. That would, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll give her a buzz.
01:12:10
Speaker
Just when you have the first creative meeting with all the backers. Yeah. Yeah. When we have our creative meeting where you guys sit down for the table read or whatever, yeah maybe pitch that. Yeah.
01:12:21
Speaker
Uh,
01:12:26
Speaker
all right perfect tides is a game it takes place um in uh uh the year 2000 um and you are a high school student that is uh like she's this uh weird young nerd kid i they're like her her father passed away.
01:12:53
Speaker
ah family is dealing and like that in that and in the movie or the movie became I'm still thinking about The Graduate.
01:13:03
Speaker
ah Like the the game Where have gone? do do do do do yeah of where have you got Joe But like the the the the game isn't like you don't go to like, you know, you don't see your father's funeral. You don't see, I forget how long it takes place after it.
01:13:29
Speaker
It's not directly about the death of your father, but it's about like the, you know, about the death of your father, you know, like, you know what I mean?
01:13:41
Speaker
And it's also, ah like about, um like the uh online communities of that time um and how it felt to be a member of them especially as a weird lonely teenager and so like i was playing it i was like oh yeah Oh man, you see, I watched you stream this one. I think I even guessed it on one your streams for it. And this was fascinating to me because I'm just enough older than you that I didn't experience this. I'd never been on the internet or online at all until I was 18.
01:14:21
Speaker
So I never had the opportunity to have like, what would be in hindsight a very cringe worthy experience as like a young teenager on the internet or something like that. Like I never, I never sent an AOL instant messenger message to some girl that I had to deeply regret afterwards or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:45
Speaker
Uh, but I can see, I could feel, uh, the connection, uh, just with you being, you know, a few years younger than me, how differently this one hit. Like, all right. So it's like, you know, the, the email that we got from Dan, who said he was born in, uh, 85. Like, so I was born in 86 and like, he was playing like on the two 86, um, um,
01:15:08
Speaker
like you know Dan, if you haven't played Perfect Tides, I'm going to assume that if you're playing you know weird, obscure adventure games in the early 90s, you probably were in a couple ah you know weird internet ah groups in 1999. You're probably geocitizing around and whatnot, and being in like chat rooms and ah forums that you were probably too young to be in.
01:15:36
Speaker
I lurked in Jess's forum. I think I posted like maybe once or twice. post That's so amazing still. I love this part of our weird origin story.
01:15:46
Speaker
um But yeah, like it's like, I think it's a great game for anyone to play, especially like because these are themes that are universal. Yeah, especially. yeah If you were like like playing that game, and also like when i stream, it's with my friend Saren Grayson, who are... like Grayson is just about exactly my age. like I think his birthday is like right around... like I think it's just shortly after mine or something like that. um and like All three of us are about the same age, and all three of us are about the same kind of nerd.
01:16:19
Speaker
And so like all three of us are just like, oh Oh, like we were like just kind of talking in like a meta sense. It's like, Oh, this is going to happen. Like, you know, like, like, it's like, we just knew like, like,
01:16:36
Speaker
Meredith grand when she made this and she's also like a, like a well-known, ah like web cartoonist. She did octopus pie, which I've absolutely like, I, I never read, but like I've, I've gone back and read some of it It's very good.
01:16:49
Speaker
But like what that also means is that the game looks gorgeous. Like it has oh yeah that kind of like it, it, it's really well drawn. Um, the, uh, but like,
01:17:03
Speaker
she captures,
01:17:09
Speaker
uh, that like, there there's there's there's like you know ah she's able to to write the feeling of that moment and yes be that type of strange isolated nerd is like very impressive it's a it's a testament to the game that even as someone who again didn't fall into that category could like boy it communicated it well to me like I all of a sudden it's just like I very easily put myself in that space it's like yeah I can imagine if I were 10 years younger this would be exactly the kind of situation I would be uh finding myself in so no mean even if you weren't part of that that specific age group uh uh it still works
01:17:59
Speaker
it It is like, and i think another thing in addition to like kind of like being, you know, capital A ah about something is that like, like this is a game as that's especially interesting as an adventure game because it like it has absolutely no fantastical elements whatsoever.
01:18:20
Speaker
Like it's just fiction. Yeah. It's slice of life kind of stuff. Yeah. Like we can't even rewind time. Yeah. There's no, yeah. You can't rewind time. Like in the drifter, there's this like, you know, supernatural stuff going on. yeah You know, like and there's no zero bird. It is. Yeah. Like magical realism and Norco. It's again, like, yeah, it's, it's fucking supernatural. yeah I mean, yeah.
01:18:47
Speaker
Yeah. um like like perfect tides is is like yeah like it is it's too real at times it's just like oh no just did you watch the movie uh ladybird yes you see that movie yes great movie and i i remember i saw it uh in a movie theater on a date and i turned to my date and i went oh my god is uh lady bird uh i think takes place i forget exactly what year i think like it was like set in like 2003 yeah i think that's right ish and like it's set in a high school in like 2003 early aughts um and ah i turned to my date and i was like oh my god they're making a nostalgia movie
01:19:39
Speaker
about high school targeted to my age, like to people my age. I'm sorry. was like, uh-oh. Like this means that I've like hit a point of adulthood.
01:19:52
Speaker
Another milestone toward death is what you- Like I was like, oh, people are nostalgic for when I went to high school. I was just- it No- Yeah, know. Ben, just earlier today, i was at a I was at a local bookstore and back in their used book section.
01:20:13
Speaker
And I saw a ah book that was like the Encyclopedia of Japanese Pop Culture. And I thought to myself, you know, someone who teaches classes about pop culture and stuff, that could be pretty handy. I'm going to pick this up and take a look at it.
01:20:26
Speaker
And I flipped to the copyright page and it was copyright 1997. And for a brief moment, i was like, so this isn't so out of date. And was like, oh, no way. Let's do the math real quick.
01:20:39
Speaker
Oh, no. ninety ninety seven 1997 still feels like a new year to me too. I don't know. doesn't sound an interesting discussion. 1997 newer me than 2005. 1000%. Yeah, not a thing with me.
01:20:51
Speaker
don't even know how quantify this. ninety ninety seven feels newer to me then two thousand and five ah one thousand percent yeah no without a doubt yeah two down that's not like a crazy thing to say you're with me i don't have know how to identify this Yeah, 1997 sounds like it should have taken place. 1997 is kind of exciting as like a series of four numbers and a date.
01:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I'm totally with you. 2005 is nothing. 2005 feels like, yeah, 2005 doesn't really do that much for me. But I hear 1997. It is a bowl chicken broth. Yeah.
01:21:28
Speaker
I hear it. it's It's actually, it's 95 to 98. Yeah.
01:21:33
Speaker
Yeah. 96 isn't good. No, no. That's right. Yeah. 96 isn't one, but 95. You very good. 97, 98. Yeah. yeah All good. not he i don't know. What's wrong with 96? I don't know. It's the same problem with 2005. Like this is weird, babe, because this is not a bit like the things you were saying right now. I could not possibly agree with more. Yeah.
01:22:02
Speaker
All right. If you share this mind illness,
01:22:09
Speaker
send us an email. Consult a doctor. yeah first yeah First call your doctor. Consult a doctor. And then send us an email at questquestpodcast at gmail.com.
01:22:20
Speaker
Because, all right, I'm glad this is something. be All right. Jess, here's my 1995 thought, which is that i remember playing Master of Magic.
01:22:32
Speaker
then the micro pros, uh, game. And I believe that it's initial release. I could be wrong. Uh, let me look this up. Master of magic.
01:22:43
Speaker
Um, no, not the 2000, uh, like the, the two, like the, the 22 version. No one gives a shit about that. Sorry. People. like All right.
01:22:54
Speaker
it came, it came out in September 1994.
01:22:58
Speaker
um I remember we bought Master of Magic at KV, of course, you know, ah in installed it. Master of Magic famously.
Old Game Nostalgia and Humor
01:23:09
Speaker
it's this, like, you know, kind of Civ style, ah like, city builder with fantastical... ah elements it's very good um but uh we like it crashed all the time famously and so we we tracked down the patch for it on like a bbs such as you would and um the uh the copyright on the bottom switched from copyright 1994 syntax and microproce to copyright 1995.
01:23:47
Speaker
And in my head still that remains like an image of it's like, wow, like this is new. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely.
01:23:58
Speaker
Like I was just thinking about these weird runs of numbers, like 1991, ninety ninety one Pretty good. 1993. Oh, now that sounds like we're moving somewhere.
01:24:10
Speaker
What's wrong with 1992, though? Oh, 92. Yeah, don't know. See, I... yeah andt i know i see i I can't go with you before 95. I was too young. 95 is when I start yeah having ideas.
01:24:26
Speaker
Welcome to our numerology podcast. Yeah, I mean, and a lot there are patterns that start to emerge. I mean, first of all... And that's where you find God. um yeah That's very important. Yeah.
01:24:38
Speaker
And how we're going to start unraveling some of the conspiracies at the very core of our society. So there was a recent Q drop that, uh, aye Look, this is a weird way to backdoor into the fact that this has been QAnon podcast from the start.
01:24:56
Speaker
All right. Yeah, I was recently watching the new King of the Hill. Yeah. yeah Oh, did you? i All right. No. All right. Let's get back on topic. um Perfect Tides, incredible game, big themes. It touched me, made me cry.
01:25:09
Speaker
All these games that we've listed, by the way, the the ones that I've played, like of the like grown-up ah variety, Yeah. Like me, like, like touch me probably made me tear up but at some point. Oh, absolutely. i yeah it's Certainly perfect times.
01:25:23
Speaker
Yeah, I tear up easy, though. Like, i'm I'm a sucker for that. Yeah. But, you know, I was also thinking in this category, because I think this is something that a lot of games aim for and miss.
01:25:33
Speaker
Like, I think this is a hard line. I think there are a lot of games out there that thought they were telling mature stories that may still be good games, but don't quite achieve this level. Like, I was thinking, a game series I love.
01:25:46
Speaker
Love it dearly. Think it's amazing. Some of the best adventure games ever made. I think...
Thematic Depth in Adventure Games
01:25:52
Speaker
the Gabriel Nat series. This is, this is an interesting thing because Gabriel Knight was on the list of games. I was thinking of discussing and this is good.
01:26:03
Speaker
Like, you know, ah so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on how it, because like Gabriel Knight is like, again, this is not putting down games that aren't this like, it's like, no, but it's like, you know, I don't really think that,
01:26:20
Speaker
that like King's Quest is trying to say something, you know, i don't think that like, you know, and this is actually why we won't podcast about it. I don't think like Space Quest is trying to say you something ah like Gabriel Knight, like has, sorry, sorry, Scott. Sorry, Mark.
01:26:40
Speaker
Sorry, Josh, a little bit on the last game. Um, ah But ah like, so Gabriel Knight has adult themes. It has like sexy themes. It has like adult like kind of conversations.
01:26:55
Speaker
um a is ostensib like It like it is about, I think I disagree with you. Okay. I just disagree with you. Sorry. You wrote like a piece for fucking Waypoint about like adult themes in Gabriel Knight too.
01:27:12
Speaker
I did, but you know that I think it's like, I think Gabriel not sometimes gets too trapped in like the silliness of the genre. Like, I think there's still like wacky adventure game puzzles in it here and there. And not going to complain about the cat hair thing because I mean, I mean, they're there in all three games where, you know, there's just bits that feel very contrived and in the genre.
01:27:35
Speaker
I agree, though. It's trying to engage adult themes. Does it have, i don't know it has a message in the way that some of these other games that we've talked about do. think 2 does just by merit of like, you know, being ah like a computer game in the 90s with queer themes. I think that, that, that alone, i think that that's enough.
01:28:00
Speaker
um Yeah. This is why i'll say, This is why I'll say Gabriel Knight 1 is a game for grownups. And ah it is the way that Gabriel and Grace talk to each other the first scene is what makes it a game for grownups.
01:28:23
Speaker
Because the way that they like kind of talk, like there is something about the the specific writing especially for like how he you know uh he's allowed but ah like uh the the their interplay and the way that it's just like kind of like there's just this understanding that grace has of who gabriel is yeah and how they kind of interact and how like
01:28:55
Speaker
they They appreciate each other in the way that they do. There's just something that feels very mature ah to me about you know like ah about how they relate to each other, especially in the first scene of Gabriel Night One.
01:29:11
Speaker
Okay, like that a lot. you know i think that that's a really fair point. you know Maybe this is one that really... sits at the crossroads really nicely too, it in the sense that there's enough of the silly adventure game stuff, I think, to bring kids into it. I mean, I was, and wasn't a kid kid, but when I played this, I think I was 16 for the first time. And I was like, yeah, this is a cool Sierra adventure. it's just, this one's a New Orleans of mystery.
01:29:39
Speaker
Let's go around. ah But I do think there's stuff in there for adults to appreciate. As you said, by the time you get to Gabriel Nutt 2, to you again just i mean first of all incorporating sexuality in a mature way at all much less you know uh you know incorporating uh queer themes that alone yeah does it so i've walked myself back to yeah i've got put these in there i mean i was trying to think of other like sierra and lucas arts kids like i guess if you want to do that dynamics like they were trying with heart of china and rise of the dragon i think i could not think
01:30:16
Speaker
I spent some, they well, you know, maybe they were mature because i bounced off. ah I bought both of them as a kid, like, and bounced off of them crazy hard. Like could not, I bought them at full price with my own money and bounced off of them so hard because interaction told me they were amazing.
01:30:35
Speaker
um Did LucasArts, I mean, the dig the most mature LucasArts adventure? I haven't played the dick.
01:30:46
Speaker
So I mean, I've always seen boring. What makes something like for grownups? um And I will tell you that I appreciate boring things way more adult.
01:31:01
Speaker
I, I think there's something quite sublime about, uh, something that is really boring. Uh, I think it's easy to mistake a boring game for a mature game.
01:31:13
Speaker
You know, you can be like, Oh, it wouldn't be moving at this pace if it wasn't, uh, if it wasn't very serious. That's why I would say Simon, the sorcerer, because of its glacial pace is maybe, uh, one of the most mature games I've ever played. I think it's easy to mistake, um,
01:31:33
Speaker
I think it's easy to mistake word density and ah like maybe like violence or like actually like the categories ah like for a game for grownups.
01:31:46
Speaker
But when it's really like, oh, it just has a lot of words. yeah Like, I don't know if I'd call like, let's say, and this isn't an adventure game, um but like, I wouldn't call like Planescape Torment a game for grownups, even though it has all the criteria that I just said.
01:32:04
Speaker
And I like that game. I'm just going to put it down to just frustrate some of the listeners. Yeah. Is life is strange? ah Or is it too teenage melodrama to really feel like?
01:32:15
Speaker
Yeah, mean hey I don't think it's a game for grownups. I don't either. I would not put it. It's engaging with. But that's not who the audience is. intent I think also like a key part in a way is that.
01:32:28
Speaker
what Who do you want to enjoy this game? If they're envisioning a person playing it. Yes. um Like they're, they're thinking of a grownup. um And like they're probably like when they were making life is strange, they probably were like, yeah, probably it's going to be played by, you know, people in their thirties and forties that make podcasts.
01:32:48
Speaker
but you know but they were really hoping that like you know like 16 year olds would enjoy it we need 16 year old with a tumbler play our game that that is yeah that is who the audience is there someone with real feelings about who should be uh kissing who on supernatural uh be playing this game Oh, God. I can imagine like the chart that some marketing person put up at the lab. It's strange development. means It's like, this is who we want. Do you see this? These are supernatural shippers.
01:33:25
Speaker
These are the people that are going to sell copies of this game. But it's like, you know, like, it's like, you know, a lot of stuff can ah be designed for multiple audiences. It's like Star Trek is like a show for a little kids and babies. And then sometimes it has big, like grown up themes.
01:33:41
Speaker
Like, it's like, have you have you seen this Tuvix?
01:33:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah. I've heard of Tuvix. You know what? Tuvix? Y'all talking about Tuvix? Yeah. You know what mean? Even tougher moral dilemma.
01:34:00
Speaker
A three VIX. All right. Well, that's a great episode of television. The, the, the, the, was it called three VIX? Is there a three Vicks?
01:34:11
Speaker
but The lower decks episode. We were just talking before e we went live today about how I just steal great ideas from other people and forget that I stole them. Three Vicks? Is that the name of... What's the name of the... ah there's ah There's a two Vicks lower decks.
01:34:29
Speaker
Two Vicks. Or should you just name it? Oh, it's it's called... two vicks but tw o vicks oh that's even better have you seen or i forget have you watched all lower decks i have but apparently forgotten that's a great episode because it also like it has such a great laugh at it where it's like wait she killed him
01:34:54
Speaker
yeah If you have thoughts on whether Chainway should have killed Tuvix or not, ah yeah just send them to questquestpodcast at gmail.com.
01:35:07
Speaker
Tuvix. Tuvix. you have any more adult... like ah ah you know i like We didn't talk about other like horror or violent. Here's the thing. I didn't have any other ones other than...
01:35:19
Speaker
um the drifter, I would assume maybe sanitarium, which I've never played, you know, maybe that fits in there. You know, in that last category, you know, i think sanitarium was on my list there again. I haven't played it.
01:35:33
Speaker
ah I haven't played phantasmagoria two, but as I understand, it tries to engage with some mature themes in a way that I think phantasmagoria one thought it was.
01:35:46
Speaker
Yeah. I was going to say, is phantasmagoria one a game for grownups? No, it is a game for children who want to think they're playing a game for grownups, which is probably what Leaves to Larry is fairly. i think we're, we're, we're, this is something we're kind of, you know, as my therapist says, it's like, yeah, we're just kind of feeling around, like we're just kind of, you know, like, cause this moving around, you're trying to figure it out, you know? Yeah. And I think, yeah, we're, we're nailing this down. I think that's what it is. I think Phantasmagoria is a game for kids who want to feel like they're playing a game for adults.
01:36:20
Speaker
It feels scary and it does deal with some, you know, mature themes ah that that that arguably are disturbing, but simply doesn't have the narrative weight to offer any kind of real critical eye on those things or generate meaningful reflection. It's just kind of ultimately a silly game. From I understand, Phantasmagoria 2, under the direction of Lorelai Shannon, ah does a little bit better with like actually delving into psychological horror rather than The Shining style horror.
01:37:00
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I think there's also, like, kind of a difference of, like, making something where you're, like, it's for adults, but you're really making, like, something for an edgy 13-year-old.
01:37:11
Speaker
Oh, I have no mouth, I must scream, I think, might fall into that category. I don't know. It's hard to, like, I gotta... Yeah, I don't know. That game... I don't know if there's an adventure game that turns me off more than that. Really? Yeah. Like it could be like in terms of just about bouncing. I've tried to play it several times in the years.
01:37:30
Speaker
My roommate in college just adored this game. Thought it was the best game you'd ever played. And just, I don't, something about the vibe of that one, man, it turns me straight off.
01:37:45
Speaker
I'm like, leaves your suit Larry. uh well you know that's interesting because uh you know harlan ellison the guy that uh you know ah wrote it uh is is generally you know well known to be warm and welcoming and kind uh and not divisive in his work yeah i mean or in the way that he treated people uh yeah we tried to get him on the pod uh he wasn't available uh yeah which just shows you what kind of jerk he is um didn't he didn't He didn't return a single email. Yeah. ah Yeah.
01:38:19
Speaker
I have one more quick one ah before before we wrap, ah which is, i don't like i mean I don't know if this even counts as an adventure game, but it was like, this was...
01:38:30
Speaker
I think this was the game that made me like kind of start to think of this distinction. Like when I completed it, I was like, I just played a game that was for grownups like this.
Mature Themes in Modern Games
01:38:41
Speaker
Like I'm a big boy now, you know, this is a game that like talk to me and treated me like I'm an adult and didn't uh, talk down to me as if I was a child.
01:38:52
Speaker
And, uh, that was the game Pentiment. Um, and don't know what you like. I don't know what genre, like, because, because it's a game from Obsidian and Obsidian makes RPGs and like, it's,
01:39:09
Speaker
developed by Josh Sawyer who designs RPGs. Like, it's like, oh yeah, it's an RPG, but like, i don't know. Is it like, it doesn't have like combat. It doesn't have like elves.
01:39:22
Speaker
Yeah. It doesn't have elves seen any elves. It's a Morrowind reference. Um, it doesn't have, uh, you know, it doesn't have combat or like, you know, like there's kind of,
01:39:36
Speaker
but But anyway, like it's a game that like just essentially lives on the page and like almost literally. And i is like, it was one of the first games of of these like that i like played that we're talking about where like it just really like I was like, oh, this is like this. This game has like big ideas.
01:40:04
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah here's one. yeah go ahead the i think we we like to mention every three or four episodes kind of like norco yeah uh immortality oh immortality absolutely and it's like got nudity ah so so it's good that's right it is it's got all the good stuff but it's got nudity but it's not like titillating right like not it's not trying to titillate you at all like you know ah yeah odds are by the time you see the nudity you've seen something within the last five minutes prior to that that deeply upset you that you're going to think about like when you turn off the lights that night it's gonna be that upsetting thing that sticks with you not the nudity yeah you've probably like you know played it and then like heard like a weird sound and then was just like it stirred and felt like something and move yeah we didn't talk about immortality immortality is absolutely all the yeah immortality i would say the most of those
01:41:00
Speaker
is like a game that I was like, yeah, this is a game like, oh man. Yeah. That's a game for grownups all the fuck over. Yeah, no, I mean, it's got it all.
01:41:12
Speaker
ah You know, that one, in terms of, like, hitting these these various categories of what an adult game um might be. And it's a good game. That's why we talk about every three or four episodes.
01:41:23
Speaker
Well, you know, and this is the thing. Like, it's like when I, like, I, you know, I enjoy a lot of shit. Like, I i enjoy everything. You're constantly enjoying shit. Like, and, uh...
01:41:37
Speaker
You know, but, you know, the the thing about a game like, you know, Kentucky Read Zero or a game like Perfect Tides or Immortality, you know,
01:41:51
Speaker
to mention it again um like those are games that really like kind of ah reach into me and like uh uh like touch me in some way and like yeah like kind of stick to me and i like you know and and that's not what I'm always looking for You know, but like, you know, Mario and Luigi, you know, I said to you you, know, five hours ago when we began this podcast, like, great game, great game, great game.
01:42:22
Speaker
Love that game. You know, that game's not going to touch you. yeah Like, no. I don't know. feel bad for Luigi a lot. And like a lot of the characters can't remember his name. And I feel like it's like sometimes like, yeah, I've been there, Luigi. People have like called me Jeff half of my life and it really hurts my feelings. So I get it. No, it's yeah, no. It's I mean, you say that Bambio, that's the thing. This is subjective.
01:42:50
Speaker
Yeah.
01:42:52
Speaker
I heard here first video game tastes are subjective. But anyway, yeah. So, I mean, that's like, you know, i i it was like, you know, playing the the the drifter such as I did and completing it, you know, ah hours, like just hours ago. Like, I walked away from it and I was like, oh, I have, like, it made me think thoughts, which is always a very yeah pleasant thing, except when it's not, you know?
01:43:20
Speaker
Yeah. And you're, I mean, it's probably the kind of game that your thoughts will drift back to. Like, I know, I mean, the last game of this sort that I probably played that, you know, again, we've talked about exhaustively.
01:43:34
Speaker
I mean, I still think about Norco from time to time, even though it's been a few months now since. Oh, dude. Since my playthrough of it, it's stuck with me. And I think that that's something that, I mean, you can put all the hardcore sex scenes you want to into King's Quest V. it's just not going to get stuck in your head the same way. I mean, listen, like the feathers get involved and it gets really messy in King's Quest five.
01:44:00
Speaker
But, you know, ah like, let me tell you, Jess. Jess is is thinking about a Garfield that he read earlier.
01:44:11
Speaker
That's right. This is a very good Garfield. But he pushed Odie off the table. ah It's good. um Jess. ah during ah during that trip I took recently that I probably got COVID at the airport coming back from, um i you know, like I had, i think it was like at the airport or something ah when I was busy getting COVID.
01:44:35
Speaker
um i i was like, you know what? Let's check in on Norco. but's see Let's see how our old friends in Norco are doing. And I played it and I was just like, man One of my best professors in college said to me, like one of my favorite professors, like said in the class, ah and he was quoting his favorite professor.
01:45:00
Speaker
ah the ah The best part, what was it? It was ah reading, the best part about reading a book for the first time is how it prepares you for your second time that you read it.
01:45:15
Speaker
Oh, that's good. Something like that. And, and like, so i like, I, I, I spent like two hours ah in Norco again, playing Liz for seconds.
01:45:26
Speaker
And it, it hit me just as hard, even harder. Yeah. Even harder, actually. um And, you know, and that's a great way I, you know, and that's, that's a thing where I'm going to leave, like, you know, maybe that's something I'll, I'd like to leave it with.
01:45:44
Speaker
Because it's like for for a lot of these like kind of big ideas, it's like these are things where I i go back and it just kind of reveals yeah kind of more within its themes and all of that.
01:45:57
Speaker
So, yeah. Well, you've listened to another episode ah our Norco fan cast. Yep. Norco. reality Norco hyphen immortality hyphen numerology yeah hyphen Q drops.
01:46:10
Speaker
And all those listeners out there is like, when is Ben going to let Jess talk about Space Quest? That's like, that said it's like I don't want to hear about these new games, these fancy new games. let me But we're going to keep talking about Norco and Immortality. I'm sorry.
01:46:27
Speaker
And maybe one day we'll um talk about. You know, like, and it's all it's also, it's like, you know, I have... you know, like I'm a ah space quest five is my favorite space quest. And I know like there's some people that are very, like there's some people who very much agree with me and some people who vehemently disagree with me. I don't want to have. That's objectively correct.
01:46:50
Speaker
I mean, we're, we'll eventually do our Sierra bracket and we'll see who squares off at the end. Uh, but it won't be space quest four. it won't. No, man. That's Sierra bracket is going to be, that's going to be one of,
01:47:07
Speaker
I think it'll be the easiest, but also the hardest. I'll be amazing when EcoQuest wins. It's going to be, yeah. People are going to be like, where did that come from? EcoQuest? EcoQuest?
01:47:19
Speaker
EcoQuest? Eco? Echo? i call it EcoQuest. Eco? quest eo Yeah. I call it, I say ecological though too. And as I say Eek the cat. Yeah.
01:47:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm an Eek guy. park the car in Harvard Yard. All right. This has been Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. We both are sleepy, so we're going to quit talking It's 1138. It's THX o'clock over where Jess is.
01:47:49
Speaker
We really need fucking wrap this. Ah! we really need to fucking wrap this yeah Thank you for listening, gang. ah it Five stars.
01:48:04
Speaker
Tell a friend. yeah hash Hashtag, what is it? Homeburger. Get on social media. Share a link to this episode with hashtag homeburger.
01:48:17
Speaker
I mean, will we even remember when we're posting it this on Tuesday?
Podcasting Reflections and Humor
01:48:22
Speaker
going to tell you, Ben, by Tuesday, i will be surprised at the topic of this episode when I see it show up in my podcatcher. I'll be like, shit, I did an episode about adult games? Cool. When we were talking about ideas for this, I pitched an idea that we recorded like two months ago. So it's like...
01:48:42
Speaker
that's true like what are we gonna talk about was like i don't know streaming they were like ben i think we already did that i was like i don't think so jess and it's like what was weird was it's sad because like i was so cautious talking i'm like ben would not have suggested that if we had done before i must be the one who is wrong here and i said to you i was like oh it's probably covid brain but honestly it wasn't it was just like this po bla it was it was Once something is podcast, that that this is this is my my my ah my brain, like, deleting a lot of waste.
01:49:16
Speaker
ah Yeah. that I'm defragging into this podcast. Yeah, I'm defragging.
01:49:24
Speaker
i I take all the new thoughts I have about Norco and immortality in the course of a week. I dump it into this podcast and I start over fresh. Yeah. As the week goes by, more thoughts about immortality and Norco like kind of slowly fill up in my brain.
01:49:44
Speaker
and then like, you know, the meter, like I become my whole face becomes red and then just steam shoots out in the form of being droll on a podcast until my my face is drained of color
01:50:00
Speaker
that's podcasting baby all right uh yeah are it's at a quest quest podcast gmail.com if you think that uh 1997 is a newer year
01:50:18
Speaker
Now, again, we don't give me some sort of bullshit calendar answer. I don't want to see like you showing me chronologically one happened before the other, whichever one that might be.
01:50:32
Speaker
What we want from you is the sense of which one seems more recent. That is a very, I mean, time is a flat circle. First of all, we can agree on that, right?
01:50:43
Speaker
Agreed. Yeah. Just, I mean, if I say, which is newer, 1997 or 2005, you've got agree it's 1997. Yeah.
01:50:56
Speaker
That's right. It's open and shut. i can't think of two dates that are more obvious. there a though only The only people that would disagree with us is the United States say it's Supreme Court.
01:51:10
Speaker
So, ah He's everything wrong.
01:51:19
Speaker
yeah and so So... It's late. It's late. It's almost midnight for Jess.
01:51:30
Speaker
He's going to turn into a fucking pumpkin. At this point, I'll probably just stay up through tomorrow. Yeah, he's going to stay up until... He's just going to... I'll probably play Norco. Yeah, you're probably...
01:51:41
Speaker
Maybe I'll just go right back into bed. Restart the drifter. I don't know. The world's my fucking oyster. um All right. QuestQuestPodcast at gmail.com.
01:51:53
Speaker
And join us next week when we talk about Norco. And then we talk about Norco.
01:52:04
Speaker
And then we talk about Norco. And then we talk about Norco. And then we talk about Norco. And then we talk about Norco. And then we talk about immortality. And then we talk about Norco.
01:52:15
Speaker
And then we talk about immortality. And then we talk about Norco.