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I Don't Understand... Wayne Dolcefino
59 Plays2 months ago
Emmy-winning reporter Wayne Dolcefino talks about his most iconic and controversial stories - WACO, CARTEL WARS, FAKE DEATHS, THE MAFIA, LAWSUITS, MARVIN ZINDLER, POLITICAL SCANDALS, THE CRUCIFIXION and more! Wayne was kind enough to try to help me understand how to be an award-winning journalist! Did he succeed? We'll see!
#Reporter #News #Media #Waco #WayneDolcefino #MarvinZindler #Cartel #Brooklyn #DIsney #Mafia #Gravy #Italian #ItalianFood #Pasta #Pizza #Music #Comedy #Drama #Life #Interview #Podcast #Cheese #EmmyWinner #EdwardRMurrow #TheWire #CoenBrothers #MartinScorsese #IDontUnderstand #LIVE
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Transcript
The Shock of Violent Content Online
00:00:00
Speaker
You ever can just open the internet and you just hear bang. And you're like, did I just watch somebody get shot? And you did.
Bolivia's Cocaine Trail and Jungle Warfare
00:00:09
Speaker
Bolivia. Land the Incas once ruled. What did you do there? Covered the cocaine trail. They prepare for jungle warfare. Were you scared? You know what? no From these leaves, cocaine is born.
00:00:22
Speaker
I was more exhausted because we were climbing up
Mountain Climbing and Armed Flights
00:00:25
Speaker
mountains. Yeah. To go to watch the ladies picking the coca leaves. We actually, i flew on choppers. The lab secured, we take back off of the relative safety of the base camp. With the guns,
00:00:38
Speaker
Out, no, stand out of the choppers. Did they let you shoot the gun? No. The machine guns are loaded and ready. The Army was worried about the police in these cocaine towns because they were dirty.
00:00:50
Speaker
We flew low, we would land at a lab, we would set charges, and within two minutes we had to be out. You would set charges?
DEA Operations and Cocaine Labs
00:01:00
Speaker
blow this place up? You did?
00:01:02
Speaker
i didn't do it. Who did? i was with the DEA and the Peruvian military. And did you watch them? What's that look like, the setting of a charge? Is it like in a movie where they toss one to the guy and you shoot, it's there?
00:01:13
Speaker
It was great. The Traficantes would start coming toward us. If we didn't get out of there we were going to be in a ah war. I still have a machete. ah that I got from a DEA agent who took it off a dead trafficking guy.
00:01:28
Speaker
Before, youth were involved in sports. Now they're involved in cocaine and its
Introduction to the Show with Wayne Dolcefino
00:01:33
Speaker
derivatives. Hello, my name is Sam Figman and welcome to the I Don't Understand show, a show where I don't understand things and my guest tries to help me understand them.
00:01:43
Speaker
We'll see if it works out. Sometimes it doesn't, and usually it doesn't. But this time it probably will I'm here to help I'm so excited to have my guest here, Wayne Dolcefino, multi-Emmy winner, Jimmy Hoffa. What happened there? Breaking news, the mob killed Jimmy Hoffa. Yeah, why was that a mystery forever? doug It's not a mystery to me. And they're like, how'd they, what happened?
00:02:03
Speaker
The mafia killed him. The most famous thing they do. they' like, what'd they do with the body? Got rid of it. They didn't leave it like out in the open on the street. But why the big air out the whole thing of like, what happened to Jimmy Hoffa? Media stuff, yeah. If it bleeds, it leaves.
00:02:18
Speaker
Oh yeah. that true? Oh yeah. Quo bono, who benefits? Do you ever say that? he's Quo bono. Quo ban... don't say that. Hugh Bono, what is the phrase? I hope that the message that any funny business going on should stop.
00:02:32
Speaker
Wayne Dolcefino has been an investigative reporter in Houston for 40 years.
Wayne Dolcefino's Career Highlights
00:02:37
Speaker
It's gonna be almost 15 years. You've won Emmys, you've won five Charles Green awards, you won an Edward R. Murrow award? Probably multiple of those. Do you think you could beat Edward R. Murrow in a fight?
00:02:48
Speaker
I could do that. And I know how I do it. I grab him by the suspenders and lift him up and toss him down and say, have Fred Friendly clean you up. The sex businesses Houston were owned by the Greeks.
00:02:59
Speaker
right But the Ocardo crime family came down and I would, I did surveillance and got plates, right? And I had a secret source and they were Chicago guys who had records.
00:03:11
Speaker
They were all part of the Ocardo crime family. The guy that was helping me, um he was supposed to be in court And I went to the court, and i was waiting for him to show up, and he didn't show up.
00:03:23
Speaker
And then they announced that he had been found dead in a car on I-10 between San Antonio and the judge. Who announced that? The judge. Like in a stadium? Ladies and but ladies and gentlemen, your source is dead.
Family Ties to the Mafia
00:03:36
Speaker
Found dead in a trunk. Yeah, but that was kind of a pretty good... Has a mafia man ever come to you and been like, cut it out, Wayne? So when my dad was alive and I was getting just the Carter crime family stuff, my dad was very good friends with the Gambinos.
00:03:51
Speaker
um He went to school with the brother. Mafia school? There was a restaurant in New York called Casa Storta, which was a Gambino crime family restaurant. and We used to go there. it was a great restaurant. But anyway, my dad never said anything. he He always said he wanted me on TV.
00:04:08
Speaker
I was in radio. He told me that he could call the Gambinos if the Ocardo crime family was given. And what would have happened with that phone call? I don't know, but my father had connections. How many mothers would be burying their sons after that phone call?
00:04:25
Speaker
As many as we need to. Those Italian moms. It's been on at those funerals. No, look at you. God, that's an old stuff. They don't cry anymore that much? Who? The Italian moms at funerals. They don't throw themselves in the water anymore? No, no.
00:04:40
Speaker
Wayne Dolcefino was born on the nice streets of Brooklyn, but after he was born, they became the mean streets of Brooklyn. Tough neighborhood. Wayne, you grew up in
Life in Brooklyn's Italian-Jewish Community
00:04:48
Speaker
Brooklyn. Was that tough? I lived in an Italian-Jewish neighborhood.
00:04:51
Speaker
Both at the same time? yeah a lot the Italians and How loud was that neighborhood? It was very loud. Who's more dramatic, the Jews or the Italians? The Italians. Really? Oh, wow.
00:05:02
Speaker
You think the Jews are more dramatic? In my experience, they're the most dramatic mom I ever had. I like the Jewish people. I learned how to say the F word like when I was like four.
00:05:12
Speaker
It was fabulous. But right across, East 66th Street was the divider between the Italians and the Puerto Rican. Oh, West Side Story.
00:05:23
Speaker
It literally was in the sense that if we played stickball, I forget the name of the street, Gaylord maybe, but i would if we played stickball and someone hit a home run yeah on East 66th Street and and went to the other side, that ball was gone. Are you telling me right now on camera that you kids in Brooklyn actually played stickball? That's true?
00:05:41
Speaker
I actually played stick ball. What was the deal there? You had a stick and a ball? There you go, baby. How big of a stick? Like it from a tree? I would say about three foot. And I'm not sure where it came from. They used to have these little pink balls that called Spalding balls. Actually, my best memories was at my aunt's house.
00:05:57
Speaker
Every Sunday, we'd go for, you know, gravy, pasta. Now when you say gravy. No was gravy. And when when my family ate dinner, it was like five hours.
00:06:09
Speaker
what we What are we talking here? Just a full table? Walnuts, the brujol, the beef, the beef. you Keep naming Italian foods. Yeah, he's right. The pasta.
00:06:19
Speaker
Say the cheese one. The veal. What's the cheese? Mozzarella. Yeah, Everyone has their own take on it. No, no. People down here call it mozzarella. It's mozzarella. Mozzarella. Yeah.
00:06:35
Speaker
No, you don't have to do this. It's just mozzarella. I didn't even try. It just happened. You know, in New York, you get that mozzarella that's like dripping. Yes. With milk. Yeah. What is that milk?
00:06:46
Speaker
Goat milk? i don't even know this. I came down here in 68. There was a pizzeria right by my house in Flatbush. It's Antonio's Flying Pizza on Hillcraw. I grew up there going there and they give you the dough. At the end, they give you some dough and you play with it.
00:07:04
Speaker
When you were a kid, they would give you dough. They gave me dough. Throw the pizza across the restaurant. Not anymore. They got sued for that. i don't think so. I sued him. I said, you threw a pizza at me? I said i was an eight-year-old. I said, you throw this dough in my face, Antonio? I sue your ass. What, you hit?
00:07:20
Speaker
I was hit in the face. Wayne has been sued over 500,000 times. Yes. Wayne. I'm being sued now. Has there ever been a time you were sued where you're like, yeah, I probably deserve that? Nope.
00:07:33
Speaker
Good. No, there isn't one I regret. Hello?
Exclusive News Tips from the Austin Capitol
00:07:37
Speaker
I used to do a really good, but I used to do a Jerry Lewis impression in high school. And that's why they told me to go to journalism school.
00:07:49
Speaker
Hello? i I used to do Jerry Lewis. That was the start of your... so That was what Jerry Lewis is responsible for my entire career. Well, don't get mad because I was just going to say that I'm not What led you to, like, investigating?
00:08:02
Speaker
I was working at the Capitol in Austin. And I befriended all the guys, the challenged guys, you know, meant medically and mentally challenged guys that worked there and cleaned it up.
00:08:15
Speaker
I used to work the early mornings. So I became friends with all those Are you like a janitor? Are you like Goodwill Hunting? What you talking him about? Yeah. No, I was in, and the press office was in the cabinet. Were you friends with? I was friends with challenged people.
00:08:28
Speaker
While I was working one morning, they came in and told me, because I was like the only reporter there at four in the morning doing fishing news. And they told me that there had been a raid of a senator's office. His name was June ching Jones.
00:08:43
Speaker
And I got the exclusive because I was the only one there. You're smart. Explain the phrase to me. I don't understand this phrase. ah Don't let the cat out of the bag. What? I'm supposed to keep the cat in the bag? that's okay That's bad for the cat. i don't like The cat's gonna die? screw the cat Don't let the cat out of the bag.
00:08:59
Speaker
Don't let the cat out of the bag. i'm so Why is the cat in the bag? First of all, why is the cat in the bag? Boy, this is a very important question. I don't, it's scary. Why did a cat get in a bag and I'm not supposed to let him out? I'm i'm the bad guy if I let it out? No. know Let the cat out. It's kind of sad that my career has brought me to this juncture.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah, I've been punched, I've been shot out. How many times have been punched in the face? In the face? In the face. Um, twice. What's it feel like to be punched in the face? I don't want it to ever happen to man Not fun.
00:09:31
Speaker
My face is too precious. Oh, fuck. ah Wayne, how many times have you been arrested? you want to talk about that? or Yeah, I've been arrested multiple times. I was arrested once for trespassing in Austin County.
00:09:45
Speaker
We tried. So we were at a place where you couldn't see the house from the electronic gate. Yeah. And so after staying out there for 20 minutes, we said, hey, let's go see if we can...
00:09:56
Speaker
Let's try the pad. Yeah. And so we but we had one, one, one, one. Yeah. And the damn gate opened. He's one of Houston's most well-known journalists and investigators exposing cases of injustice and abuse of power across Houston. But tonight, Wayne Del Sofino has another title, inmate at the Harris County Jail. Was in the cell with an
Arrest and Jail Experience
00:10:16
Speaker
accused murderer. It was great.
00:10:17
Speaker
Did you become friends with him? Well, we don't hang out anymore, but he was cool. When I was arrested for contempt, his video did. Well, according to sources, Dojofino went to the judge's courtroom today. When I was arrested for contempt by that jerk judge. Is that bullshit? You want to call that judge out now? total bullshit. Obviously, that conversation didn't go well. Judge is so full shit. What is contempt? He's like, you're too rude to me in my office?
00:10:42
Speaker
Contempt is really an abuse of power, what it was, right? Because I only wanted to ask him questions. According to court documents, Dolcefino went up to the judge as he sat on the bench and demanded to interview him.
00:10:56
Speaker
Told three times to either have a seat or leave, the judge finally threatened to have him arrested, to which Dolcefino allegedly replied, quote, do what you have to do. And he threw me in jail. So I go to jail, right? And it was during COVID.
00:11:09
Speaker
So you were in overnight? Oh, yeah. You've been in jail overnight? Yeah. He made confidence that he's not going to be able able to stop drinking rum. He says he has a vacation house in Georgia or Florida, that he's not going to give up.
00:11:21
Speaker
What's that night? What are the nights like? ah The bed sucks. There was no pillow. I think there is a real interesting question, especially about people that do nonviolent things, as to whether or not jail makes it right. Would you be a police officer if you ever thought about just being a police officer and then... don't make enough money.
00:11:40
Speaker
They don't? No, don't think so. We arm them like Robocop. Why do they have... They got all their money on their chest, huh? They deal with people who will try to kill them. Throw Molotov convios at them. That sounds was delicious. yeah The reviews are in for Housekeeper the movie. They're calling it a sweeping success.
00:12:01
Speaker
Okay. I've never seen that movie. Marvin Zindler, Eyewitness News. Marvin Zindler, let's talk about him.
Collaboration with Marvin Zindler
00:12:10
Speaker
Love him. The past you can never forget. we shared like an office suite. He was a consumer guy, he was a public corruption guy. We got along really well.
00:12:19
Speaker
and Well, he didn't like me at first. I did an investigation once when I got there fairly early on. He came here to me he said, i did that investigation 10 years ago. And I said, well, obviously you didn't fix it, Marvin, because I had to come back and do it again.
00:12:33
Speaker
I heard Marvin yell profanity every single day. You fucking this and fucking that. He would yell at the people who put the slime in the ice machine. Slime in the ice machine. The worst thing you could do when Marvin did a story on you is to complain, because Marvin would call you up and chew your shit in a way that I've never seen since then. Marvin was the guy that actually worked on a story the night he died.
00:13:04
Speaker
They don't make those kind of people anymore. They really don't. those i mean, Marvin's in there really gave a shit about poor people. Is that what you would say was his great strength? He gave a shit about poor people.
00:13:16
Speaker
He gave a shit about people that had no fight. and And let me tell you something. I got a lot of my thing from Marvin because Marvin taught me that I could take a case involving some poor little old lady in the third ward and go against a man.
00:13:40
Speaker
And that was
Channel 13's Influence and Responsibility
00:13:41
Speaker
Marvin. I think Channel 13 had that gravitas. People who watched Channel 13 back then, they know. It was a gravitas. 20% of the audience watched TV in the 80s and 90s. They watched local TV news.
00:13:54
Speaker
So on a Sunday night, we'd have 15, we'd have like Super Bowl numbers. We worked together great. We both put up with the Disney bullshit. No offense to my former employers, they do good amusement parks, but they suck at news.
00:14:10
Speaker
Marvin Zindler, his hair, was that big white hair? Was that real? What was that? No, that was a wig. where Were his eyes also big and blue? See, Marvin made a career toward the end of Going to Sam Fickman, Fickman Auto, and saying, Fickman Auto, you screwed this person around. And they would say, we are so sorry. Here's a new car. or Here's your free bumper.
00:14:34
Speaker
Right? And then Marvin would say something nice about you at the end. The only thing difference between Marvin and me is I never felt the need to thank someone for doing the right thing.
00:14:45
Speaker
And let's say they say, I'm sorry. I don't remember anyone ever saying that. Right? But let's say they said it. was too bad. Yeah. You're not stupid, you're corrupt. There's a difference, right? A lot of- I could accidentally do something. What if I am dumb enough? Do you ever, like, a guy like uh-oh, I don't understand insurance. I think that's a pretty reasonable defense. Have you ever investigated somebody that you found was so dumb that you're like never mind, they just don't know what they're doing? Constable, she's still around, May Walker. She just retired. Should we beep that name? May Walker was not indicted by a grand jury. I'm going to beep that name. No, no, it's true.
00:15:22
Speaker
It not undiated by the grand jury because the grand jury thought she was too stupid to do it intentionally. Based on that, I could get away with everything. i would never, he know he didn't understand. If I was wearing the hat?
00:15:33
Speaker
So if I was just wearing this hat on a crime spree, you think I could get away with it? Yes. If you had a story killed, I've had stories that were screwed up by the lawyers at Disney.
00:15:47
Speaker
So you used to work for Disney? I worked for ABC. And then ABC got with Disney. And that's when it changed. were They were like, whoa, what are you saying on here? The Disney lawyers came from New York, but there's different kinds of New Yorkers, right? There's like tough guys, and then there's freak shows like you, okay?
00:16:07
Speaker
I got to the point with them where we could not agree on like the color of the sky. So it really fell apart, and you can ask me anything, but it fell apart when I did a story in Kima.
00:16:21
Speaker
And I interviewed the building inspector who made a comment to me about how he hears no evil, sees no evil. When I asked him why he didn't pay attention to this stuff. Well, that's what and Sergeant Schultz said on Hogan's Heroes.
00:16:34
Speaker
Nothing, I say nothing, I say nothing, I hear nothing. So I said how cool would be to put that in the video. So I called him the Nazi prison guard Sergeant Schultz.
00:16:45
Speaker
And the head lawyer from Disney, the head guy, calls me and says, you can't call Sergeant Schultz a Nazi. He's the very divination of one. okay One of the lawyers read on Wikipedia, which we all know. Wikipedia once said, I read Asian babies. oh Is that? Okay, so we'll dissuade anyone of that notion here now. He'll say that never happened. No, right, and never been convicted. Wait, is this why you don't have a Wikipedia because it's been taken over by scoundrels online?
Campaign for a Wikipedia Page
00:17:12
Speaker
You have so many... He doesn't? No, he doesn't. Let's get White Don't Joffino a Wikipedia. I am a Wikipedia. Yes, friends, I'm calling upon you, you tech wizards from all corners of the internet. Come together and let's build Wayne Dolcefino a Wikipedia that is inclusive.
00:17:30
Speaker
It's a place where we can be nice to each other. So if you're hearing this message and you know how to do a Wikipedia, let's make Wayne a Wikipedia. Hashtag Wayne's Wikipedia. So we argued about that story for three weeks.
00:17:44
Speaker
It was supposed to air. yeah I refused to take it out. I said, well, first of all, Sergeant Schultz isn't a real person. There's that. And he is a Nazi. And he is a Nazi, which was the be bottom line.
00:17:55
Speaker
And the guy who played him was already dead. So I said, who's going to sue me exactly? Is Sergeant Schultz going to file a lawsuit against me for calling him a Nazi?
00:18:06
Speaker
And literally, they refused to approve the story. it For three weeks, I refused to get out. Did you ever hear about the guy who played Hogan in that show? The what?
00:18:17
Speaker
The guy played Hogan? In Hogan's Heroes? Yeah, what about it? I love Legendary porn collector, Bob Crane, shout out. was his name? Bob Crane. Yeah. I used to love that show.
00:18:30
Speaker
Bob Crane was murdered in a weird way. I knew he was murdered, but I wasn't really familiar with He was killed with a tripod. we have a few of those on set right now The very murder weapon that killed Bob Crane. Was it tripod? It was a tripod that killed him. Because it was his friend who used to film stuff with him. Beaten to death with a tripod. Wow.
00:18:47
Speaker
And then, yeah. That's going to happen to me, I feel. Guess what? This is a jinx scenario where we're catching you in the murder of Bob Crane. Yeah, and there are like three i three tripods here.
00:19:00
Speaker
It's actually very scary because that could be a weapon. Anything could be a weapon. You just don't want it to be. I know. Yeah, weird ending for him. But yeah, good, funny show. And they were Nazis.
00:19:10
Speaker
There's a lot of things I just don't understand. That's sort of the premise of this podcast.
00:19:17
Speaker
What's this business about Pontius Pilate washing his hands like he felt bad? i see he may Pontius Pilate was pressured into it by the Jews. bo not The Jews are gonna convince a Roman general to do a thing? Like, what how weak is this Roman general that he's, or whatever he was, the mayor of that little area? Like, why can't a Pontius Pilate say, no, band of Jews, I'm not gonna crucify this guy. Oh, right, the law. They were able to trade for Barabbas.
00:19:41
Speaker
So Pontius Pilate, his little hands, his little dirty hands were tied, right? Yeah. ah So it's okay for Pontius Pilate to say he was just following the law, but when the Jews do it because this guy's, you know, starting a cult, doing an illegal witchcraft, maybe, bringing back Lazarus.
00:19:59
Speaker
Who told him to bring back Lazarus? I don't want even to hear about Barabbas. I'm not a practicing Jew. No. It's some things just don't become practical. and I'm a Lutheran because Martin Luther was a troublemaker.
00:20:11
Speaker
Martin Lutheran King? Martin, our dead not that guy. yeah What happens after we die? I do think we come back in other lives. So do you think you've had another life before?
00:20:22
Speaker
I do. What do you think it was? where What time period? Mafia. Cult leader David Koresh shows no signs of surrendering to federal agents. Let's begin with Wayne Dosefino standing alive near the compound in Waco.
Living Through the Waco Siege
00:20:32
Speaker
Wayne.
00:20:33
Speaker
I was driving back from Austin after a party weekend and I was called and they said, where are you? And I said, I'm in Austin. They said, go to Waco. I stayed there the entire time until the night before.
00:20:48
Speaker
i have so many good Waco stories. Plain and simply, it is a waiting game here. we were getting food delivered there. all okay What was the best thing you ate in Waco? We had pizza delivery, Chinese food delivery. We had Italian pizza, right? Most of the folks who live around this cult say they're quiet neighbors.
00:21:06
Speaker
We had Winnebago's with like flamingos outside because we were there so long. In your memory, Waco was like summer camp. It was Noah's party. As I said, simply a waiting game and it's approaching nightfall. Because at night, we would drink margaritas and listen to the guy play guitar.
00:21:24
Speaker
And the FBI... David Kurepp? Yeah, David Kurepp. Would you do it? yeah and Yeah. And the FBI would fly helicopters around and play chicken slaughter noises. trying to freak them out inside.
00:21:36
Speaker
And he would play electric guitar. And we would sit out in our lawn chairs that we bought. First thing we bought was tequila. yes But we bought lawn chairs. And we would sit out there every night.
00:21:47
Speaker
And because after a week or two, the media coverage was not very much. So we only like did like little soundbite kind of things. Or we were barely on. So all we did was just watch the exit where the kids were coming out. Yeah.
00:22:03
Speaker
and listen to the guitars and the thing-a-night. Because we were all at the point saying, this dude ain't coming out. This is bullshit. He's not ever coming out.
00:22:13
Speaker
And nothing's going to happen, right? We'd been there like two months. yeah We even like had ordered like a pool like for all the Zinnia people so we could swim. No activity, Dave and Sherry, in the last hour or so other than law enforcement vehicles passing back and forth.
00:22:28
Speaker
couple of more passing around a back road that leads into the compound, which is, as you can see, about a mile or so behind us. So we had, like, ABC stations and CBS stations. The people there, we had sort of commune of... How long were you there?
00:22:44
Speaker
Two months? Yeah, we were living there. But the man who holds the trump card tonight is David Korsh, this ninth grade dropout who thinks he is the second coming of Christ. He clearly has the choice of ending this thing peacefully or in a blaze of bullets.
00:22:58
Speaker
We were um setting up like flamingos and chairs. We wrote songs during the day. We hung out. There was nothing else to do. We made pasta at night.
00:23:11
Speaker
we made We drank margaritas at night. And then he would report at some point. on what with oh By the way, some gunfire just happened with the psycho in that house. There was some sporadic gunfire this afternoon. The reporters that had been there a long time, and I'd been there like the longest, but the reporters that had been there a long time said to the feds, give us the guns, we'll kill them.
00:23:33
Speaker
Because we were tired of being there. But he was playing good music. I get it, but it was like over. Now we did bribe federal law enforcement officers with hats and other ABC paraphernalia to bring women in.
00:23:49
Speaker
To bring women in? Yeah. There was an all-nude bar. very close to the compound called Sunny Tees. And 90% the people that were reporters there were guys.
00:24:01
Speaker
So we'd all start to hang out there. In fact, we actually had a party in the springtime bringing in women from this place. but Bringing in women. You keep saying that phrase.
00:24:13
Speaker
the It does sound a little bit like traffic. Bring them in Yeah, um but it wasn't from Thailand. Okay, so there were federal law enforcement officers that had blockades. Behind us, Debbie, of course, is the roadblock. To get through the blockade, we could get through because had media pass.
00:24:28
Speaker
But if you show up with some woman, you had to get her through. And so we would give them T-shirts and hats and all kinds of stuff to bring women inside the complex. Was Waco scary or just fun for you?
00:24:43
Speaker
it was It was really a great time. Before I got both legs out of the truck, the gunfire had erupted. So I came home, true story, came home to Houston that night, went to Sam's boat on Richmond, got extremely intoxicated because it was the first night I was back.
00:25:00
Speaker
And the phone rang, it was the station, and they said the FBI just notified us they're going in. And I was like spinning drunk. So I had to go to the station. It was a windy, windy morning.
00:25:12
Speaker
And I had to fly in the helicopter back to Waco to get there about 4.30 or 5. I was so sick on the helicopter. I was like, literally like laying, like my entire body was like this because I was so sick.
00:25:27
Speaker
If you look at my videos in Waco, which have been destroyed, I think, I sweated. like broadcasting. me Is that the one where you're in that black leather jacket or that black? That's another sweating experience. Okay. But I literally was like dripping. I was on the air live for like five hours straight.
00:25:45
Speaker
because it was like breaking the air. You were sobering up? Are you saying you were sobering up on the air? I was sobering up on the air. Or were you staying a little drunk with a little flask or something? I think was drunk anymore. but i was sick.
00:25:57
Speaker
I was like literally sick to my stomach. How annoying to you was it that they chose to raid the place when you were a partying? Did people die? Oh, yeah. Wait, you tell me the whole Everybody there pretty much died. It was a few who lived.
00:26:13
Speaker
Fire. and they' Gunfire fire from a God? the f b They shot at the FBI. The FBI then goes in. fire A fire starts. You're drunk. I was not drunk. I was sick.
00:26:27
Speaker
There's a difference. And people you'd expect, look, when fire, struck like if fire broke out here on the I don't understand beautiful set, What would happen? We'd leave, right?
00:26:39
Speaker
So everybody expected the people to leave. I'd go down with the the set. Really? i like I'd stand here proudly lighting myself up. Just for the record, and i ah won't be here. no that's fair.
00:26:51
Speaker
You'll have to carry on with that. Do you think Koresh really believed he was the Messiah? Yeah. yeah You could sense that he believed that. Yeah. so So he was crazy?
Closure of the Waco Siege
00:27:00
Speaker
Yeah. That what happened on the fire proved the day the crash was crazy because he kept little kids in a fire so they could burn to death.
00:27:09
Speaker
So that was pretty easy. And the FBI briefings every day were even crazier. Because I'm telling you, the reporters that showed up the last day who weren't there for the whole thing were all saying, I can't believe they all died.
00:27:23
Speaker
I can't believe the FBI went in there with tanks. Those of us who had been there for 50 days, who had like lived our lives there for 50 days, seriously, we used to talk about asking the FBI agent in charge, if you guys won't kill him, let us us do it.
00:27:40
Speaker
Because we want to go home The mistake that was made in Waco was they didn't get these guys when they were outside the compound in the first place. Yeah. They staged some big, giant, you know, let's go on on a big bunch of trucks down a farm road.
00:27:55
Speaker
They stopped the postal guy saw them and snitched off to David Koresh. That's how they got, that's why they were expecting them when they came. The dumb part was if you want to arrest David Koresh,
00:28:08
Speaker
Wait for him to leave the compound and go get him. them When we're doing surveillance on people, we'll often tell them that we're we're going to come in 20 minutes. yeah We're already there, right? Just to make them come. Was he doing food runs? I mean, what was the deal? where He was all stocked up with guns and weapons. I mean, did the guy were leaving the compound. They weren't coming in and out? They were seen in town all the time.
00:28:31
Speaker
So why don't you just... Get him when he's not in the combat. Was there ever a proposed Trojan horse scenario where you would give them a big gift and sneak yourself and your friends in there? About 40 days in, some dude...
00:28:46
Speaker
got through this ah FBI blockade and into the cult place, okay? ah About a day later, they threw him out because he was too crazy for them.
00:28:58
Speaker
There was a bunch people on an overpass that thought this was the end of time. And they'd sell shirts, and it was like really cool. It became like a really cool thing. you have any of those shirts still? I had i had some. I had Klan shirts too.
00:29:10
Speaker
oh I went to a Klan training camp. Oh, the training camp? I went to the training camp with a friend of mine who was Jewish. ah And he said, and there were these guard dogs there, he said to me, do you think they know I'm Jewish?
00:29:27
Speaker
And said, you look Jewish. nice What's the most scared you've ever been?
00:29:33
Speaker
um I was scared a few times in hurricanes. I don't think I've ever been that scared. So you've never been scared by a man? um understand the phrase, he wants he can't have his cake and he eat it too.
00:29:44
Speaker
can't have your cake and eat it too? I like that expression. What else am I going to do with the cake? Take it to Nantucket on a date? That's a really troubling question. So what do I do? I think you eat the cake.
00:29:55
Speaker
And, but I can't and have it too. And to have it too? Yeah, think you can do both. A lot of people don't like that though. what Where does this confidence come from where you can walk into a room and ask a question where and you're just not worried if anyone in that room is mad at you? I sort of feed on hatred.
00:30:11
Speaker
Did you just imply- I don't want to talk to you, so you gotta leave me alone. gonna charge you with harassment. All right, you charge me with harassment, Chief. Go for Go for Chief. You want to charge me with harassment for asking you a question? I don't want to ask you.
00:30:23
Speaker
It's weird, but I can walk into like a government chamber and I know that everybody like everybody in the on the dais, whatever it's called, don't like me, right? And probably hate me, yeah right? I like public officials who tell the truth.
00:30:38
Speaker
The district attorney, Johnny Holmes, old guy, told me that if I was shot, there'd be a thousand suspects. Now, did that frighten you that he was so cavalier about your potential murder? No, I think it was kind of a message that you were like causing some shit. We have a saying downtown. If you die, everyone did it. That would concern me.
00:31:00
Speaker
I was in a bar in the 80s, and a guy um from across the bar sent me over two shots. And of course, I was a reporter, so I drank them. And then I went over to thank him.
00:31:12
Speaker
He was a little smaller than me. And he said, um you don't know me, do you? And I said, no. He goes, you sent my mother and father to jail. And you know what I said? Are they having a good time?
00:31:24
Speaker
um figure I figured I was going to get fight with the guys, so i might as well like. He bought you two shots? He did. He sent them over and i drank them. And he's like, yeah and here are two other shots. Gun, bang, bang. No, but I didn't think he was going to kill me. His parents were like insurance fraudsters.
00:31:38
Speaker
um and But I told him, I said, hey, dude, I don't send people to jail. Yeah. Wait, how often do people come up to you and they say like, hey man, you're doing a story about me, please stop it. and People came up and said all kinds of things.
00:31:51
Speaker
The creator of Porcelain. I've got a pained look on my face because I'm scared. You know Porcelain? Yeah. Is this guy happy with what we've done with his creation? He goes, why would he not be? Here's the good news. He he comes to us with Porcelain and we go, here's the good news.
00:32:06
Speaker
We love Porcelain. Here's the rest of the news. We're mostly going to use it to shit and piss. I just, I don't know if the inventor of porcelain lived a happy life, if he was artistically fulfilled. think he made a lot of money. I had porcelain on my floor.
00:32:24
Speaker
Do you find interest in other people? Yes. Do you find it easy to be fair? No. Are you often consumed by envy? No. Are you scientific in your thought? I don't know. Are you concerned by the impression you make?
00:32:37
Speaker
Not all. I don't understand how to eat a Nature Valley granola bar. Are you trying to eat these things? You know why? i used to hate granola.
00:32:49
Speaker
Love it. I just started eating it just weeks ago. I love it. I love granola. I'm a granola freak. I always buy it now. It's true. I never ate it because I always thought it's sun, but I love it.
00:33:00
Speaker
What's the deal with why it's so crumbs? It's all crumbs. It's what it is. so I open it. It gets all over me. I'm embarrassed to walk in front of you. Why? Because there's so much crumbs on me. I don't know how to eat like a man.
00:33:13
Speaker
Define masculinity. ah Not Sam. You're of supposed to say Sam Fickman. Sam. Okay. I'm sorry. Define masculinity. Define masculinity. Sam Fickman. That sounds good. If you enjoy fireworks, particularly in the courtroom, have we got a story for you. What is something that you've, have you lived with any case, like what's that case that like you're gonna like, you're gonna be 80, you're gonna just wake up one day like, and be like, still talking about it, like where are the Perso children at?
Investigating Sylvester Turner
00:33:42
Speaker
You're gonna wake up wandering around and like, Dad, you're not where are you ah The first Sylvester Turner story, which is available on YouTube, right, that he sued me over. Now the gloves are off in this Texas courtroom. When he first ran for mayor and we took him out seven days before, and I'm glad we did.
00:33:59
Speaker
I do wish the guy who faked his death in that case, and I faked his death. Explain the case real quick. Successful Harvard Law School grad, elected official, and what came after the devastating Channel 13 report.
00:34:14
Speaker
What role did Houston mayoral candidate Sylvester Turner play in this tale of multi-million dollar fraud? Yeah, wait. So Sylvester Turner, who was the mayor and he... No, no. He was running for mayor. He was running for mayor, got divorce.
00:34:29
Speaker
He had a client who fell off a boat in Galveston Bay. OK, just a few days after the Secret Service announced that we're going to arrest him. OK, and and weeks after filling out all these life insurance policies. Right. That often happens. Right. Young people do all these life insurance policies.
00:34:48
Speaker
Here the feds are coming to get them. And then you just happen to mysteriously fall off a boat, even though they had a ah fear of the water. In my experience, young people don't understand insurance well enough to do that. it's Probably true.
00:34:59
Speaker
So Turner is the lawyer. The guy that Turner was living with was the beneficiary of the guy's insurance policies. right Turner was the lawyer for everybody in the scan. There were two other guys in the boat that lied too. Did he plead ignorance? I don't know about this. What did Sylvester Turner know and when did he know it? He claimed he had knew nothing about it. It seems to me what Channel 13, Wayne Dolcefina, is saying in this report is that...
00:35:27
Speaker
Either Sylvester Turner was in on this and therefore he's a crook, or if he didn't realize it was going on around him, then he's really naive and thick as ah thick as a brick. the what that The essence of that report was that I was involved in insurance conspiracy.
00:35:41
Speaker
They made the story just as juicy as they could make it. So if this guy fakes his death, then how does he get uncovered as still alive? ah Because I found out he was in a prison in Spain.
00:35:53
Speaker
He thinks it's death and then goes and gets arrested. for cocaine oh in Spain. Although these workers claim they're innocent of the evil these plants can bring. yeah no conos emotional no shortto is as classicly medicine as we don't know about that kind of medicine. We don't know how to use cocaine.
00:36:10
Speaker
So it was a story that was hard to believe. Lester Turner claims he fully cooperated with all the investigations into Foster's disappearance, but at least three investigators very close to this case tell us that's simply not true.
00:36:23
Speaker
evaluation Excuse me, Mr. Dostoevsky, now listen to my question. As of December 1st, 1991... But the guy that faked his death went on to become a pretty significant, like, um actor...
00:36:39
Speaker
in a bunch of shows. And that is Bradley Cooper. No, police shows. Wait, who? Wait, who? What are you talking about? His name is Sylvester Foster. look Oh, wait.
00:36:51
Speaker
<unk>s been Let's beep that. You know what? It'll be really exciting if we beep that. Because some people will like, who who did he say? And maybe it was Bradley Cooper. I want to tell the truth.
00:37:01
Speaker
And I know what the truth is, because he's told me. What is it? The truth is that Sylvester was and guy that was the smartest guy in the room in planning it all. And that's newsworthy, Mr. Franklin. It was newsworthy in 1991. It's newsworthy today. And if I had to do it over again, I would do it again.
00:37:20
Speaker
That story is a story that needs to be proven up. I hope it will be in my life. And you are. It's not. I mean, I'm going to, don't lose the evil visualized return Today, the standards are so weak.
00:37:34
Speaker
I see networks all the time. Networks, CNN, Fox, whatever, saying a source familiar with the conversations in a private room.
00:37:45
Speaker
They weren't in the room. Someone must have come out of the room and told the nurse to tell Bobby to tell Sue, and they'll make that news.
00:37:56
Speaker
They'll say, a source familiar with the conversations. What does that mean? Was he part of it? If you're not part of the conversation, it shouldn't be reported at all because you have no way of verifying that it's even remotely true.
00:38:10
Speaker
The local media doesn't want to work that hard and is scared of getting sued. The national media is all narrative, right? You got the liberal channels and you got the conservative channels.
00:38:22
Speaker
You watch those two and you don't even know that you're in the same country now. What is that about? that they made money by being partisan.
00:38:33
Speaker
Why are we so divided? but I think we have real fundamental differences. Yeah. What's that about? I think it's about, what does that boil down to? And how can we fix them? Let's just fix them. Let's get them on the table. fundamental What are the differences?
00:38:48
Speaker
Easy. Let's get them over. We have differences about but diversity? Nah. We like everyone. Yeah, we do. it's not that hard. You say like everyone, I say I like everyone. It's a difference. guys, and put you in the category. I'm agreeing with you. No, but liberals think conservatives don't like black people and women who are Hispanic and transgender.
00:39:10
Speaker
Most Republicans don't give two crap. I believe that. I believe that y'all tired of being told that you're racist. And it's it's it is backfired on them. and That's fine. okay you're not Okay, so you're not racist. Nobody's racist.
00:39:24
Speaker
What is racist? No, okay. Look, I think they're racist. A lot of them. Who? Right? Name one. A lot of people. What's an example racism? Well, the Klan is racist. Yeah, but... I mean, they align with the political party at the top of the... See, so what? So communists align with liberals. I mean, that doesn't make every Democrat... like Who's a communist that has threatened you in your life before?
00:39:48
Speaker
I've never been threatened by a commie. You're bringing out that partisan to me. Well, what's that deal? We're a bit afraid of communists this whole time because of McCarthy? I don't care about him and his little limo full of twinks.
00:39:58
Speaker
He was a Ryliner, man. Roy Cohn. Okay, get it back. Getting all Russian. Look, I think- Would you call yourself the Roy Cohn of Houston? I think there's a fundamental- reason Are you homosexual?
00:40:09
Speaker
I'm sorry, Wayne. and Are you mad or- What are you more right now? Mad or sad? are you more mad or sad that you did this? I'm amused by you. You're going, you're doing what the left-wing media does.
00:40:22
Speaker
I'm not going to do that. I'm a proud, you know, libertarian conservative guy. You want to on record with that? Your politics? No, I'm... go on shows talking about it. Oh, right. Do you want to go on record on dumb show with that? I'm getting sued for investigating some Republican county judge.
00:40:39
Speaker
Some things that are wrong are liberal things. Some things that are wrong are conservative things. If you've got evidence of that, then me and you, during the next break, we'll call the district attorney. Sorry, there's going to be none of you and me at the next break, period, Mr. Wilkes. No, just what's... Now, do you understand?
00:41:00
Speaker
Yes, Sergeant, or no, Sergeant? You know this thing where actors have to go to military training? if they're gonna play Okay, an actor, if they're going to play a soldier in a movie, they send them to actual military training.
00:41:13
Speaker
I think that's good. do they Does Ben Affleck need to do all that to pretend? think Ben Affleck does. Ben Affleck and Josh Hartnett had to go through actual military training for the movie Pearl Harbor.
00:41:25
Speaker
I love that movie. I love that movie too oh that They fought over that really pretty girl. I know. You know, it turned out it wasn't a movie about the battle of the harbor as much as it was a battle over her heart.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah, and the guy that probably wasn't the guy she loved the most got whacked. He got killed. and But he got infragment. So he lives on in that way. Got infragment.
00:41:48
Speaker
and She ended up with... The other guy. And he's like, wait, you're pregnant now with my friend's baby? Isn't that weird? Yeah, I don't know if I'm still in love with you anymore. Honestly, he's okay with that because he miss his friend dies in Japan.
00:41:59
Speaker
Because the guy was dead. The competition was gone. Yeah, but he died a hero in Doolittle's Raid. We remember Josh Hartnett. I remember that movie. It was a great movie, I thought. I love that movie. um Ernest Hemingway, I don't understand.
00:42:12
Speaker
He West. Have you read Ernest Hemingway? No. I don't read. I don't understand Ernest Hemingway. Not his books. I don't understand why he looks exactly like Kevin Smith. What time period, if you could live in any, would you live in I think the 20s were pretty interesting.
00:42:29
Speaker
You know what? You think that, but then it's prohibition that whole decade. You don't remember all the time that in the 20s you couldn't drink. Weed's illegal. you can still find it everywhere. Now, would you be busting people for drinking, though? If 1920s Wendell Gioffino, oh, you wouldn't go to like the salon and be like, hey, hold on, fellas, and crank the thing, and then it's the salon? You would. No, I would not have been. I just don't think. Truth is worth fighting for, though.
00:42:52
Speaker
Yeah, but the truth was that it was stupid. It was. I feel the same way about illegal weed. ah think it's stupid for weed to be illegal.
00:43:02
Speaker
Half the states make it legal. People do it. and you know Don't give it to kids. We don't get that, but don't give we don't give liquor to kids. We don't give cigarettes to kids. So why do we give a crap about weed? I don't know.
00:43:14
Speaker
Where are your five Charles Green Awards? I don't I have a sense that if I fired you, yeah this show probably wouldn't, you know, pay the bills. If you fired me, this show would not pay the bills. In fact, it would waste the bills. But at least I would get the message out there. Hey, man, it's cool to not understand things, right?
00:43:34
Speaker
Stand up and admit it. I don't know what that insurance lady earlier was was talking about. that What was she talking about? There is an interesting day for you to be here. I truly don't understand. I will disclose that, though.
00:43:45
Speaker
I've worked for you. with you for you for me for three years and they've been the best years of my life and thank you for hiring me and thank you for giving me a job frankly that's a very important thing for a man to have is a job and you're the reason i have one we're gonna play a little game time for a game show it's called who done did it with Wayne Dolcefino or mystery solved but probably who done did it with Wayne Dolcefino boom song Who done did it?
00:44:12
Speaker
With what? No, there isn't a theme song. Thank God there isn't. Where we're going to go through a list of unsolved mysteries with Wayne Dolcefino and he's going to tell us who he thinks done did it.
00:44:24
Speaker
JFK, who done did it? CIA. What do you mean the CIA did, the Lincoln, or the Kennedy one? I think CIA did it. Why, because they were mad about Cuba? Everybody already says, follow the money.
00:44:35
Speaker
And they say that. In every make-up video, they go, you got to follow the money. When you're like, I am. My big expression is the root of the tree. Always go to the root of the tree, and you'll figure out what the hell happened.
00:44:50
Speaker
The root of the tree, in the beginning. Sometimes people get into a trail and they're at like three months in the trail. Go back to the beginning, see when the deal was done. That created the fraud and the corruption.
00:45:04
Speaker
Go back to the root of the tree, my son That's good. You don't understand, do you? I do now. Do you think I could to be an award-winning journalist now based on, i mean, pretty much. i just with me That was a great game show.
00:45:18
Speaker
Yeah. and Did that end weirdly? ah no but truthfully, you are an amazing boss and it's amazing to work with you and to watch you do all this crazy shit you do.
00:45:29
Speaker
And it's cool to see that you still do it Why do you still do it I'm going to do it like Croak. I want to do it till I croak. And I still like to fight. And I still think there's a lot of things that are really screwed up.
00:45:42
Speaker
And I think less people tell the hard truths now than used to, especially in local towns. If you think about it, you know, the national media, the White House, all that sort stuff. But in a local city, in the Houston area, who really does it anymore?
00:45:59
Speaker
Who does investigative journalism really? I mean, Amy Davis is going to challenge her. There's some good people. I'm not. Well, what's your advice for people who want to do it? Who see you and i you're pretty good. what What do I think? It's going to be really hard for people to develop audiences investigating political corruption and fraud and family courts and stuff like that.
00:46:21
Speaker
I think I was lucky to turn it into a business because I was on TV at a time when everybody was watching TV. And so my name ID is was really big.
00:46:34
Speaker
Still is, but it's not as big as it used to. Look, most people, ah most people if they're younger than 40, have no clue, right? but What's wrong with everyone younger than 40?
00:46:45
Speaker
Because they have no clue who I am. And that's a mistake. Wayne DelGioffino, you are an iconic Houston journalist, investigative reporter. What what title do you like the most? Um... Asshole.
00:46:58
Speaker
You're an iconic, I can't call you that. I would never call you that. And I come from the all in the family generation. Why can't we have a little sense humor? No, wait a minute, because what the teachers did in Idaho was racist.
00:47:08
Speaker
You were able to transition from television to the
Injustice and Property Theft Cases
00:47:13
Speaker
internet. I think people want to come to a company and say, i can't fight this.
00:47:20
Speaker
You fight it for me. And that's what we do. The day of TV is coming to an end. It's all going to be streaming stuff. Everybody's on their phones.
00:47:31
Speaker
Everybody's on their pads or whatever. Look, we basically investigate and then publicly expose things. That's what we do.
00:47:42
Speaker
So we investigate corruption. We investigate fraud. We investigate injustice. We do a lot of stuff in the courts. But injustice is a pretty broad term right every day. I mean, I had a bunch of African-American folks in and down in the east part of Houston whose relatives owned property that later became like the big oil place, right?
00:48:04
Speaker
And they were hoodwinked to sell the property or it was stolen from them, yeah right? That's an injustice. An injustice comes in many forms. It comes in court cases. It comes in criminal cases.
00:48:16
Speaker
Some people are innocently charged. What's the shocking example of injustice you've seen? Something that shocked you? People are capable of that? I think it's more of sad things. i think the family court fights over kids are just so sad.
00:48:32
Speaker
They often last 10, 15 years from the times the kids were babies is to the times they're like seniors in high school and it screws them up. Is it not about the kids? It's more about winning against the ex-spouse? I don't want to be a psychological freak show because I think this generation is way too consumed by everybody thinks they're psychiatrists now.
00:48:54
Speaker
But how do you feel about that? Because I just, I talk to enough people that are younger. I understand now what old people used to tell me. But didn't you think those old people were annoying?
00:49:07
Speaker
Well, at a certain point. Weren't you like, I'm sorry? i mean, look, I don't think you're, I think you're right. i don't understand. i am dumb, but I admit it. I have an old show about it. I'm, you think I, what's wrong with the generation?
Connecting with Younger Generations
00:49:21
Speaker
Yeah, we don't say it anymore. oh sorry. This is your remaining chance to tell me about things you don't understand. I don't understand a lot of things. i don't understand how to listen to music very good anymore. Sometimes I'll be listening to a song for years. don't how to do this. It's not on the radio. Yeah.
00:49:38
Speaker
I don't know how to listen. But I literally don't know how to like hear music. Like, i sometimes I'll be listening to a song for years of my life, just like dancing around me like, on a whole nother level, I'm gonna zone. And then one day you zone in on the lyrics and you're like, what what am I listening to?
00:49:52
Speaker
And you're like, William Zanzinger did what to Hattie Carroll? I don't understand why we waited so long do this. Wayne Dolcefino, 13, undercover.
00:50:11
Speaker
i don't understand why we wait so long to do this wayne do trefino thirteen undercover