Transcript
Speaker: The moment we shy away from trying to use our career, either to bring peace and feel like it's here, then I think we are actually not telling truth to power. Hello, Josie. Thanks for joining us. Would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself? Hi, Missy. Thank you so much for having me today. And yes, my name is
Speaker: Josephine Mahachi, though I love to call myself Josie when I'm on screen or doing my work. So yeah, you feel free to call me Josie. I was born in Zimbabwe, in Harare in the capital city. Grew up in a very big family, mostly of girls. And one thing that I always remember about growing up was how my dad always thought girls were not
Speaker: How can I say? He never appreciated us as girls, as children. He had that old mentality that proper children are boys. And this is something that I always laugh at him. He's still alive. So every time I do something or I achieve something, I always remind him that, oh, remember now this is Josie, a girl who is doing this, not a boy. So yeah, it's something that we laugh about now, looking at where I come from.
Speaker: I did my primary school at Hatfield Primary School. That's just like a long airport road, people from Zimbabwe know. Then did my secondary school at Hatfield High School. So basically I'm a Hatfield girl. Then, like I said, my dad never believed in girls. So after school, trying to convince him, I wanted to do
Speaker: something more. I wanted to get into journalism. He complained about money. He complained that he had done his part. So I had to hustle my way up. I left Zimbabwe for some few years to South Africa, and I was doing those type of jobs. I remember I worked in a church. Yeah, Missy. Yeah, in a church is a secretary to the prophet, the pastor then.
Speaker: in South Africa. If I have to tell you my story, you will love so. And I never got paid. I never got paid. You know, it was a Nigerian profit. And yeah, sometimes when I look back at my life, it's
Speaker: I reflected my love. I never cried. Let's go back a few years and you said that you grew up in a family of girls. How many girls were there and how many did you have in the brothers as well? So nine girls and one boy. Your mum was a strong woman.
Speaker: So I remember when the last girl was born, this story is something that my mom always talks about, and she actually shed tears when she's telling us that my dad walked into the hospital, opened the shower that the baby was covered on, and just said, girl again, walked away. So yeah. But anyway, here we are. I mean, I look at all my sisters.
Speaker: I can't say there's any of us that is not doing well. So yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you have so many stories of that, of kind of in the pursuit of getting
Speaker: a boy, you know, having women having to have so many children along that way. And for you as one of the girls, I mean, which number were you? Were you first middle? Which child were you? That's a must.
Speaker: So growing up in that environment where, like you said, you know, society didn't value girls, hence why your father had that mindset. What was that like for you as a young girl growing up? For a while I lost focus. I felt like, look, I'm nothing, I'm not going to be anything.
Speaker: since this is what my dad believes in. But I loved reading, so I kept reading. I always used to watch, especially Oprah Winfrey. And I remember watching her interview, how she grew up and what happened to her. And I was like, look, this has not happened to me, but this is just my dad believing or feeling that girls are nothing. So I should not keep looking at this or listening to what he says. I should prove to him
Speaker: that I can be somebody as a girl, despite the fact that God made me as a girl. So everything that I did, I always wanted to prove my did wrong. And it helped because it has made me who I am today. So it kind of serve as a motivating factor, really. Yes, yes. And you also spoke fondly of your dad, so clearly his mindset has changed since then. Yes, it has.
Speaker: And, you know, but your story is the same for a lot of girls, even today, in terms of the society's valuation of girl -child, particularly in terms of your education. I was glad to hear that you actually, you know, there was no limitations in terms of your education. But growing up in that environment at that time, in society at that time, how did you navigate that devaluation of you as a girl? I look at myself as someone who's like a go -getter.
Speaker: I don't take a no for an answer. So when he told me we're talking about money, I knew that he could afford it. We were taken to government schools. All my sisters were taken to government schools.
Speaker: But the boy is the only guy who went to a private school. I remember very well even crying the other day when he bought him a blazer. You know, I never had a blazer in school. So it changed me. It changed everything about me. And I wanted to be an advocate for girls. I wanted to prove to the world. I know my dad is not the only one. There are so many men like him. So I navigated my way through
Speaker: other women. That's what I did. Actually, before I left for South Africa, I worked for a pharmacy, one of the biggest pharmacies in Zimbabwe. I mean, you know, it's just like an OTC consultant. You don't need qualifications for that. You don't need to be a pharmacist. So OTC is like over -the -counter medicine. I remember my boss back then, Rosina Dudia, she's an Indian lady. I told her my story.
Speaker: And she was also a pillar at that time. So these are some of the women that I navigated through my way up as a woman. There are many women like Rosina. Okay, so through primary school, secondary school, what was those experiences like back then in Zimbabwe? At Hatfield, she said, you're a Hatfield girl.
Speaker: If I could turn back the hands of Tyve, I miss those days. Yeah, it was fun. Though, I kudos to my mom. My mom was working at Sheraton Hotel at the end before he changed his name to Rainbow Towers. And I mean, she worked night shifts, day shifts,
Speaker: just to make sure that at least we had what we needed as children because, I mean, like I said, my dad was in the Air Force. You know, I talk about this because he is someone that I still remind and we laugh about it. So it's not something just to rubbish him, but he was a very tough man.
Speaker: You know, every time when we saw the lights of his car by the gate, we used to watch TV with the lights off so that when we see his home, we'd all sneak into our rooms and sleep. So he was that tough. Asking for anything for school, you would have to pray by the door. Before you ask that daddy, they said they need this. And for sure he would shout. It was just my mom who would go an extra mile to make sure that at least
Speaker: whatever is needed you get. So I remember it was well bittersweet memories for me. So at what point did you venture or did you realize that you wanted to go into journalism? When I was still in Zimbabwe, when I was working at Kensington pharmacy, that's when I started raising money for myself to take myself to school, get into journalism. I wanted to be a voice for other women actually because of what I had gone through.
Speaker: And the other thing I also noticed was the way Africa was being portrayed by other international medias. And I wanted to be in my own small way. I wanted to be a voice to portray the positive side of Africa that was never being portrayed by other international media houses. So I did.
Speaker: raised some money, took myself to school, and later continued in South Africa. That's when I now started my own television show. I never worked for any media house in Zimbabwe, not even the state broadcaster, though there's a particular time they wanted me, but instead I just suggested somebody else.
Speaker: I studied my own television show in South Africa in 2009 called Click Africa, a TV magazine show. Before we go on to Click Africa and your ambitions to change the narrative of Africa, you talked about raising money to get yourself into journalism.
Speaker: Talk to us about that journey because there's so many people out there who are self -funding their education, who are trying to go through that process of raising money and raising the support to get to where they want to be. So what was that experience like for you?
Speaker: It was tough. I mean, you're a young girl and this is the time that you need to start buying clothes for yourself, looking good, living a life just like other girls. But you just have to be thinking about taking yourself as tip feather, taking yourself to school. It was very tough. But like I said, there were people in my life that were there for me.
Speaker: When I told Rosina Dudia then that I wanted to take myself to school, I mean, I got more shifts. She changed me from the OTC consultant to the cosmetics department, more money. You know, I had my aunt then who actually did get me the job at Kensington. Auntie Elder, I actually asked her that I'm going to
Speaker: her name on my birth certificate, her name is Elder Mahachi. So such women, I mean, they made my life easy. They made my life easy. But then that was also around the time that things were so tough in Zimbabwe, if you remember, I don't know if you know about it, 2008. Yes. So I had to leave and pursue
Speaker: My journalism career in South Africa. Yeah, I mean, my next question was going to be, why did you go to South Africa to pursue journalism there? It's interesting that you talk about, you know, these women who have been so instrumental in your development. The other day I did an interview where I was a man asked, you know, are women the reasons why other women fail and fall? And, you know, your story is an example of where women support women to achieve what we want to achieve. I think women do support women. It's just
Speaker: a few. Of course, there are some that have this, well, do you realize this PhD syndrome, but I think they asked some women that uplift other women. And I also want to be the woman that uplifts other women
Speaker: You know, I want to be that. PhD being, pull her down. Pull her down syndrome, yeah. Okay. So now you're in SA, right? So this is around 2008, you said? 2009. Yeah, I left, I left similar with 2008, 2009. That's when I
Speaker: I studied clique Africa television. Okay, so that was pretty quick then. So from the moment you left Zimbabwe to actually getting started with Catafrica, that's like a year or under. No, no, no. I left Zimbabwe end of 2007 when all this mess was starting in Zimbabwe. I can't remember the minute that year. It was like a year and six months or so. That's when I now started clique Africa. I was in South Africa.
Speaker: Okay. So what happened in that year and six months? That's where I saw the bitter side of life being in South Africa. Sometimes we leave our countries thinking that there is greener pastures in other countries, but it's not that easy. You know, of course I could eat, I could have my three meals in South Africa, something that was very difficult in that period in Zimbabwe 2007, 2008. It was terrible. I mean,
Speaker: People would eat Sazza, Sazza is our staple food. People would eat Sazza, some with salt, Sazza with germ. You know the germ that you spread on bread? It was that terrible. But I went to South Africa, pursued my degree and also did some online courses just to train myself how to present it in front of the camera because I wanted to be on TV. I always dreamt to be
Speaker: like Oprah someday. So yeah, that's just what I did. So I would hassle work trying to get a few runs while I'm also taking myself to school. I had that vision that I wanted to start my own show. So yeah. Elia, when you said your first job in SA was working for a profit.
Speaker: which you worked for free. So tell us about that. What was that journey? What was that experience? It was very terrible. So I didn't have anywhere to stay. I was waking in the church, so I was sleeping in the church. This is about me, but I don't want to talk about what these prophets are doing in the world. But honestly, it's bad. It's terrible. They take advantage.
Speaker: Well, not, I wasn't taken advantage of sexually, no, but take advantage of people that I need instead of helping people. It was a very terrible experience. I worked, I think for some months. I can't, you know, I can't remember, but I just remember that that's when I met the love of my life. I met my husband there. Yes. I met my husband there. So he started helping me. Then I had to go back to Zimbabwe, enrolled into a university.
Speaker: Yeah, that's when I did my journalism degree. You've spoken a lot about Oprah so far as a kind of inspiration for you. What is it about Oprah and how has Oprah's work influenced yours? Okay, so I look at Oprah's story, how she grew up and how she was abused and all those
Speaker: It might not be the same as what I've gone through, but it's almost the same story whereby people look at us women as objects. People look at us as, as nobody's soul. She has, her story has inspired me because I just looked at myself that it could have happened to me. And then look at where she is today. She, I mean, she is opera. A lot of us women who look at her as an inspiration.
Speaker: So yes, those that have watched Click Africa, I tried by all means to make it look like her show, though it was not like a talk show. But I did one on one interviews with a few head of state billionaires, ordinary people doing extraordinary things. I may not go around Africa interview a lot of people. So in portraying the positive side of Africa, that's what I tried to do. I tried to
Speaker: stay away from anything negative. Though at times I had to be factual. Yeah, that's what I did. Let's go a few years back to the early days of Click Africa. How did that even start? Because one day I was watching a show on one of these international medias and I was so disappointed. The pictures that they were showing, you know, of kids, like this is what Africa looks like.
Speaker: and which is not true, emissary. Of course, every country, I'm in Germany now. Before I came here, I never thought that I would see bakers on the street. But you pass through the banoff, you pass through the city, I mean, born, there are drunkards sleeping on the streets.
Speaker: They are beggars. They are kids. I mean, it's everywhere. When they portray the African narrative, they make it look like we are monkeys. We are baboons. We do not have homes. They make it look like our kids are living on the streets. They will picture these kids with mucus looking dirty. That's how we grew up playing.
Speaker: Some of these kids will be playing, you know, we play with sand in Africa. We we play rough like that's how we we never grew up with toys. These these modern toys would play outside on the fields. I mean, that's how I mean, a foreign journalist goes to Africa and pictures these kids and make it look like that's how they are living their suffering. So I saw that and I I wanted to be
Speaker: the voice to portray Africa in a positive way, that this is all lies. So I would go around to countries. I went to Nigeria. I mean, I traveled. And I would show that, no, it's not about these kids being dirty and in poverty. Yes, they are. I know there is a percentage of people that are in poverty, but most of these kids will be playing. It's not about them
Speaker: living on the streets. There are street kids everywhere in the world. Yes. So that's what really motivated me to start Click Africa. So tell us through the process though of getting that program up and going. How did it start? Like the whole process? Yeah. So I was in South Africa and like I told you that that's when I also made the love of my life.
Speaker: So he's also into graphic designing, also into media. So we met in South Africa, it's multi -choice. I don't know if you know multi -choice TV Africa. Yeah. So there was an exchange program. That's when I met him and I had this vision of starting my own TV show. So we went and inquired how.
Speaker: how to start a TV show and how to have it on air. I remember then there was Zimbabwe and Waking Bay. So it was like luck for me. It was, his name is Ishmael Lofo. I remember him very well. He's at MNET Africa in South Africa. So he just told me what I had to do, bring in a pilot, told me the specs, he needed it in HD format or you know, I mean the basics. So we went and
Speaker: I had an interview with, I think I remember then, that was James Makamba. Yeah, I interviewed a couple of people that I knew in South Africa. We edited it, submitted the pilot, and then yeah, they licensed Click Africa TV show. So it was showing on Africa Magic, DS TV channel, 154, 155.
Speaker: five twice a week. So there'll be a lot of our listeners who are aspiring to set up their own TV show just like you've done. So what would be the advice you would give them? What would be the guidance you would give them in getting to that point of having their own shows licensed? The first thing that I would want them to know is anything and everything is possible. Do not shy away from finding out how this can be done. Everything can be done.
Speaker: At first, when I thought of starting this show, I thought it was so impossible when I look at other shows that are on DS TV, but I did it. I mean, persevere, do it, just find out what you need to do. And honestly, content is king. Content is needed everywhere. So wherever you are, just find out how best you can do it. And it's doable.
Speaker: chain ideas and to broadcast as, you know, or anybody else that you are approaching to commission your work. Always have original ideas, original content sells more. Don't try to be somebody, something else. When I pitched, that was one thing that I was told that we would want original content. When I say original, I mean, I don't know how to explain this. Okay.
Speaker: This is how I did it. I went to Mnet, asked what I needed to do. You need to have your own content. It has to be your own content. They need to see the effort that you've put into this. They need to see the pilot has to be very original. Your quality needs to be at par.
Speaker: The script, they need that as well. You need to be good in scripting. Of course, it's not cheap. It's never cheap. Then now I know it's doable and it's very cheap because you can use your phone. You can even use your phone for an interview. But then when I started in 2009, I was told the type of cameras that I needed to use. I had to hire those cameras. I had to set up a studio.
Speaker: But now, I mean, everything has changed here, Missy. So it's now even more easier than Big Ben. So what was that feeling like when you first, I mean, tell us about that call, that moment when you heard, yes, we're going to commission Click Africa. Yeah, Missa was over the moon. I was so happy. I was, you know what, like a dream come true. I was, I was so happy. But the first
Speaker: episode when it played. I wish the whole Africa... I wish that there was no electricity in the whole of Africa. I was like, oh, what is this? You know, I thought like, why can't just all the TV sets switch off? I felt like...
Speaker: That was my first TV interview being shown in the whole of Africa. I mean, I'm talking of 49 African countries. And I felt like I had not done justice. I was a bit steep. I was a bit, you know, nervous.
Speaker: That's when I saw that I could have done that better. I could have done this better. I could have worn this. I could have smelled more. You know, I just started correcting myself. But the funny thing is a lot of people that watched started calling, texting, emailing. Oh, that was brilliant. You know, but as you yourself, you feel like you could have done more. Yeah. The whole interview watching it, I was just in tears.
Speaker: mixed feelings. But what did you learn from that? I learned to conquer fear. I learned that you can do it. I learned that there's power in perseverance. I learned that life is what you make it. That's what I learned. Yeah, exactly. I think there's a lot of us who are held back by fear, right? Fear of the unknown.
Speaker: And also the idea that or the notion that you need to have perfected something before you go out and do it. Because for you, you learned by doing. Yes, yes, definitely. If that first episode had not gone on air, I wouldn't have noticed my mistakes. I wouldn't have noticed that I need to smile more. I wouldn't have noticed I need to relax.
Speaker: So what I did was I had submitted about a season. I redid, withdrew everything that I had submitted and then replaced with new episodes after I'd watched myself. That's what I did. So you learn by doing. I just wish that people out there could give us opportunities to do it because we can only learn by doing. You cannot expect someone to be perfect.
Speaker: from the beginning, no. Exactly. And even in the process of doing this podcast series, I've changed my style so much more. Hopefully, I'm asking questions in a slower pace. I found that when I get nervous, I speak really, really fast. And you know, I have this bundle of energy. But actually, when you listen to yourself, you realise, okay, well, number one, you're doing a good job, right? You are doing a great job.
Speaker: But then number two, you kind of then begin to pick up the skills, know what works, what doesn't work. But I think that there's beauty, there's joy in learning by doing and actually going out to live that dream and be flexible along the way as you're developing. Okay, so how long did Click Africa go on for? Beyond that initial first episode, where you had to go and redo everything, how did it go from there?
Speaker: It went so well. It went so well. I mean, I was called everywhere. I mean, to film. I remember I even got a contract from the Zimbabwe Tourism Authority to showcase all the tourist attractions in Zimbabwe. So I would go around Victoria Falls, Caribba, Great Zimbabwe. I mean, all the tourist attractions, I showcased them on my show. I remember being called for African summits.
Speaker: to interview head of states. It went very well. It went very well. Some of the invitations I had to turn down because it was becoming too much for me. I remember being called to interview some Nigerian governors on corruption, to understand exactly why we Africans are being told that we are corrupt.
Speaker: What I got to know from all this was I mentioned every country in the world is corrupt. This is what that was the message I got from almost all the head of states, the governor's that I interviewed that, you know, when it's done by Africa, it's like it's out of this world. But yet all these European American countries, they forget that I mean, America, America as well, European countries, they also forget that they are also corrupt. So I did a lot. It was a success. And
Speaker: One of the interviews that I really always look back at and tell myself, wow, Yemisi was when there was a problem in Madagascar. I used my voice, I used my platform to bring peace between former president Ravalomanana and the current president, Andrea Rajolina.
Speaker: Then I interviewed both of them. I went to Madagascar, I interviewed Andrew Rajolina, I interviewed Rafa Lomanana in South Africa, I went to Nigeria, I interviewed Obasanjo, I made them watch what President Obasanjo had said, I made them watch what the other one had said on the watch, you know, and it brought peace between them. They spoke, I was there, they called each other. So I felt like, look, if we could do this more,
Speaker: I mean, as journalists, I know there's problems in our continent, but remember, as well as journalists, we, journalism maintains democracy. It's also the force for progressive social change. I watched that interview over and over again, and I'm proud of myself. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I mean, you've spoken about changing the narrative several times already.
Speaker: And from this story you just said, I mean, that's another angle of changing the narrative by actually using journalistic platforms to bring a resolution to a conflict. And what spared you to do that? What was that experience like for you as a journalist? Because you interview world leaders, like African leaders. So how do you keep your journalistic distance in the sense of not being overly involved in ensuring that you're not becoming like a PR service? Oh, yeah, because
Speaker: I know that generalism can never be silent. That is the greatest virtue and its greatest fault. So if the moment we shy away from trying to use our career, either to bring peace and feel like it's a PR, then I think we are actually not telling truth to power. I always tell myself that I'm a human being first and a generalist second.
Speaker: I look at what was going to happen in Madagascar if that had not happened. There was going to be war. A lot of people are going to lose their lives. So to me, like I say, that I have brothers and sisters in Madagascar being Africans. So I am a human being first. And I had that platform to bring peace into that country. I didn't look at it as public relations. I looked at it as playing a role.
Speaker: which remember was my objective of starting this show. Of course, now that I'm working for a media house, things change. I have to, it's not really about what my objective was with ClickAfrica, right? So we have the power to make the world a better place as journalists.
Speaker: Yeah, okay. So, I mean, changing the narrative, developing new narratives about Africa is really something that everybody's talking about now, something that you were doing, you know, earlier on. And so now you've went on from going from Click Africa to Deutsche Welle, an international media organisation in that continuation of changing the narrative of Africa. But what happened
Speaker: in between. Talk us through your journey in between going from Click Africa to Deutsche Welle. So what happened was later on during Click Africa, I started in South Africa, then later moved to Nigeria when the multi -choice head office moved to Nigeria. So I moved to Nigeria so that it could be easy for me content -wise and also submitting my content.
Speaker: Then after that, I moved back to Zimbabwe just to continue Click Africa as well in Zimbabwe. And also then I was trying to be patriotic as a journalist. You know, being a journalist is very difficult because there are things that you want to do, even for your country. But then you have a sort of like an oath as a journalist. This you can do, this you can do.
Speaker: As I was in Nigeria, I met Africa's richest man, Aliko Dangote. And after our interview, I interviewed him. After our interview, I asked him that, why is it that you're in every African country, almost about 16 African countries, but not Zimbabwe. And I'm from Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe has always been in my heart. So I arranged with Aliko Dangote, invited him to Zimbabwe for investment opportunities. I knew this would mean a big deal.
Speaker: because then Zimbabwe's GDP was only like 3 billion. So I'm looking, I'm talking to Africa's richest man here. And I knew this would change Zimbabwe in a very positive way. And I managed to do that. I took Aliko Damkoto on the 31st of August, 2015 to Zimbabwe. I arranged everything he met. Then President Mugabe, some government officials, he was ready to invest, but
Speaker: You know, Africa, there were issues of corruption. And Mr. Dangote is a very shrewd businessman, so that investment is not taken off. But I know he is someone who's very interested in Zimbabwe, when things improve economically, politically in our country. I know that someday God's grace, you will still go and invest. So I took Dangote to Zimbabwe. After that, Mr. Tony Elumelu, I invited a couple of business people
Speaker: for investment opportunities in Zimbabwe. And then still also doing my own stuff, which is ClickAfrica, still doing my interviews. But now, then after that, I was selected for the Mandela Washington Fellowship yearly program. I was in the US for six weeks. Still, I was also selected because of ClickAfrica. So I was at University of Texas in Austin.
Speaker: under the media section. So then after that, I returned to Zimbabwe after the fellowship program. That is when I made the biggest mistake of my life. I tried to go into politics, the MEC.
Speaker: I felt like I could do more. I wanted to change my community, Hatfield, so I ran for a member of parliament in Hatfield. A lot of things happened because actually the reason why I decided to do that was when the coup happened, when Mugabe stepped down, almost everybody in Zimbabwe believed that things would change. We all saw a new Zimbabwe. We all saw, I mean,
Speaker: That Zimbabwe, that was once breadbasket of Africa, retaining. But that was just all lies. All the new participation mantra was all lies. So that was the greatest mistake of my life, trying to get into politics and as an OPF and under the current president who a lot of issues happened and I had to leave Zimbabwe. That's when I came to Germany and
Speaker: I'm so grateful to Klaus Taka, the Africa Department head of the federal law.
Speaker: gave me the opportunity to join Deutsche Ville. So now yeah, I'm working for Deutsche Ville in the English or African department. I love it so much though. It's not TV, it's radio. I've always loved TV, but I'm on radio and yeah, it's okay. It's going well. I love it. Yeah. And I still continue my show. Now I have a show that I do online, live chat with Josie. I interview people, upload it on YouTube or yeah.
Speaker: So what tell us that journey itself? Like how did you get into joint together and what was the process like in migrating from Zimbabwe to Germany? It hasn't been easy. I miss home every day. I miss traveling around. I miss, I miss a lot, but you know, it takes time to settle in. It takes time to be alive, but
Speaker: Yeah, I miss home every day. I miss my parents every day. But yeah, Deutsche Welle is like family to me. I mean, they are lovely people. There's so much diversity. I mean, that's about over 30 languages at Deutsche Welle. So yeah, I have a big family in the African department. We have Ausa department, Keswahili, English department, French, Amari,
Speaker: the Ethiopian. So I mean, yeah, it's a big family. I love it. It was a bit challenging for me in the beginning because I mean, radio is not something that I ever loved. I never loved it.
Speaker: I had to change into radio. I always loved TV. I always loved to show my face out there. But yeah, I love it. It's going on well. Yeah, quite challenging every day that we have to be always reporting about Africa, these Africa that and a lot is happening in Africa, actually. I mean, just to trace back a second, actually,
Speaker: Before you joined government in Zimbabwe, you had done the Mandela Washington Fellow. What was the timeline there? Mandela Washington Fellowship was in 2017. So how was that for you? How did you get into that program? Because there will be a lot of our listeners who
Speaker: you know, who wants to go on fellowships. And so what was that experience like for you from the moment you applied right up to, you know, when you finished? So I applied for YALI in 2016. I didn't make it. The application process is not a joke. It is not a joke because I mean, this is one of the greatest fellowships in the world. I mean, it's not a joke. It's not a joke. So 2016, I didn't make it.
Speaker: I didn't give up. Well, that's 2015 into 2016. I didn't make it. Then 2016 for 2017, that's when I reapplied and I made it. The application process, the whole application form itself is not a joke.
Speaker: I mean, there's a lot of essays, you need to explain a lot of things. Yeah, I had to look for help from fellows from other from the previous year. So, yeah, then I made it. The experience was brilliant. It was brilliant. I learned a lot. It's more like you're still in university for journalism. So it was it was great. I really want people to try it if they can. Mandela is a great is a great fellow.
Speaker: Thanks to President Obama. Tell us more about you and your personal experiences. What were the key moments in that fellowship for you and what did you really take from it? I remember then we were in the business. I wasn't in the civic, I was in the business. I was selected for the business side.
Speaker: A lot of take I got from that was from Professor John Doggett at University of Texas in Austin, how to make money from your show. He's the person that actually encouraged me to go on YouTube, to have my content on YouTube. I mean that even if you're working for someone and you feel like your voice is not heard enough, there's still platforms like YouTube.
Speaker: So that was the greatest take from the fellowship for me. And after that, that's exactly what I did. And I am using YouTube and it's working well for me. And okay. So how long were you on the fellowship and what happens on the fellowship? Six weeks. I was on the fellowship for six weeks. So you arrive in America. We are put in different universities all across the world. And so you attend classes every day, Monday to Friday.
Speaker: And then there are also some social activities. You're also putting homes like just for family, just like to feel how American families leave. So there are some families that actually take up fellowship students to have them for the weekend. So it's just like diversity sort of like exchange and yeah, a lot of activities. And then towards the end, there's a big summit.
Speaker: which of course we would have wanted. President Obama had to have graced the summit because he did in the past years when he was too president. The year I went was when President Trump had just become president, so he didn't grace all of it.
Speaker: It was bad. The world with President Trump, that's not, I mean, we need that essential out of this. Yeah, I know. I mean, but a lot of African journalists do aspire to go to these international fellowships. And do you really feel that that's their key? How would you talk about them in that context?
Speaker: So the Mandela Washington Fellowship is not just journalism, it's a lot of things, civics, business and all. I would personally still want to go for like, just journalism, journalism fellowships, really, I would want to, because remember, this was mixed. So journalism was a part of
Speaker: It's not like it was all and then there was business and then there's a lot of things, but I would want like a proper, I mean, to still attend like a proper journalism fellowship whereby I can learn more. I mean, improve, learning is never enough, right? So to improve more, but it wasn't bad.
Speaker: It's a good thing. I mean, we need these fellowships more. That's what I'm trying to say. And so that was 2017. And when did you start at Deutsche Welle? I started in Deutsche Welle last year in November. November last year, okay. And did you? A few months. Okay. Okay. And could you speak German at that point?
Speaker: I'm learning, bit by bit, I'm learning. So the good thing about Georgia Velle is that I'm in English speaking. So I'm working for the English for Africa department. But of course, yes, I have to learn German because I'm staying here. So I can still go to work and talk with my colleagues that we speak English.
Speaker: We report in English, so it's still okay. But yes, I am learning Dutch. We're going to end the interview in a moment, but I just want to hear your kind of experience in getting in there. And how did you get in there? How did you start up? You know, was this, did you have your vision towards Deutsche Welle? Because you simply moved from Zimbabwe to Germany. So did the job come first or did you move come first? My move came first. Yeah, my move came first. I only got in touch with Deutsche Welle when I was here already.
Speaker: So my move came in first. Yeah. And when I actually reached out to Deutsche Ville, I actually thought that it would be TV. Yeah. So I got her radio, which I'm not complaining. I'm sure very soon something will happen and I'll move to TV. Okay. And so, so, I mean,
Speaker: now doing your, with Africa link department of Dertivella. So how has that helped and what has been your experience in Dertivella in that objective of yours of changing the narrative of Africa? How's that panned out? It's a bit different and it's a bit difficult. Would I say I tried by all means to always shy away from the negative stories coming out of Africa.
Speaker: That is impossible with Deutsche Welle because we need to be factual, we need to report things as they come in its current phase.
Speaker: So yeah, I find myself most of the times being on radio, talking of bombings in Africa, talking about separatists in Cameroon, talking about gunshots in Cameroon, talking about, you know, a lot of bad things happening in Africa, talking about journalists arresting Zimbabwe, my good friend Hopewell was just arrested. So yeah, I mean, it's different now, but it's factual. And yeah, it's going on well.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? Because when we talk about changing narratives in Africa, I always say, you know, the narratives, those narratives that are used against us are still there. So what's your advice to journalists who are really taking on this mantra of changing narrative of Africa?
Speaker: What's your advice in the way in which to construct those narratives? Things like political restraint on press freedom, for example. How do you report that in such a way that it's not still constructing the same narratives? Because it's still that the things are happening. So that's the challenge, I think, in this objective of changing the narrative is that.
Speaker: How do you change the narrative that still exists? And how do you construct it from an Afrocentric way that changes the way in which the perspectives are through which or the lenses through which that same story has been recorded? So what I do, what I used to do is this, like, I report things as they are. Let's give you an example on freedom of speech or journalism is not a crime.
Speaker: everything that's happening in Zimbabwe, I'll give an example of Warped Pearl was just arrested because he was reporting on corruption in Zimbabwe. You report as it is, but then you also look at Zimbabwe being in Africa. There are also some African countries that do not do that, that allow their journalists to report as it is, and they are not prosecuted for that.
Speaker: So what you do is what I feel should be done is the fact that Hopewell was arrested because he was just doing his job and he was reporting on corruption. Then we now look at another country where a journalist is reported on corruption or whatever and nothing happened to him. So it is a percentage out of Africa that we should not say in Africa. This is how journalists are being treated. But it is in Zimbabwe, in Tanzania, in
Speaker: Some, I don't know, we can mention all the countries that are not allowing journalists to do their job and not say Africa. So it's the generalization that you're... It's the generalization that I do not, I do not approve of, that I do not like.
Speaker: Oh, I mean, it's been great speaking with you. It's really been interesting to follow your journey and to hear your story and how, you know, you changed, you navigated yourself through the different stages in your life. And is there any final words of advice or guidance you'd like to give to our listeners? I'll just leave our listeners with a quote from Christian Amanpour of CNN. She says that good journalism, good television can make our world a better place.
Speaker: That's all I can say. Brilliant. Well, thank you very much. And Josie, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much, Emi, for having me. Take care.
