Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Australia's Wellbeing of Future Generations Bill
14 Plays2 months ago
In our final episode, we're joined by Dr Sophie Scamps, Independent Federal Member for Mackellar, for a powerful conversation about intergenerational fairness and her introduction of Australia's first Wellbeing of Future Generations Bill in February 2025. From stepping away from a secure medical career to championing systemic change in Parliament, Sophie shares what it takes to stand up for long-term thinking in politics, why the wellbeing of future generations must be at the heart of decision-making, and the growing movement she's helping to build for a more sustainable future.
Want to stay up to date with the For Our Future campaign? Follow us on our socials @forourfuturecampaign and @foundationsfortomorrow
Ready to take some action? Sign our petition for a federal Wellbeing of Future Generations Act here!
What's In It For You is a Foundations For Tomorrow podcast, produced as part of the 2025 For Our Future campaign. It is hosted by Clare Beaton-Wells and Anna Bezzu.
Links and resources mentioned:
- Australia's Wellbeing of Future Generations Bill
- Watch Sophie's speech here
- Read about what the Bill will do here
Recommended
Transcript
Acknowledgment of Indigenous Lands
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode was recorded on the land of the Camaragal people of New South Wales, Australia, as well as with our guest today on Garagal land in Northern Sydney.
Respect for Indigenous Elders
00:00:09
Speaker
As co-hosts, we pay our respects to Indigenous elders past and present and acknowledge that intergenerational leadership and long-term practices of stewardship have been cornerstones of Indigenous cultures for thousands of years.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to What's In It For You, the Foundations for Tomorrow podcast that's recording its final episode as part of the For Our Future campaign.
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm Claire Beaton-Wells, a foreign political staffer, future generations champion and policy innovator. I'm passionate about inspiring young people to lead the charge when it comes to addressing some of the world's most complex challenges.
00:00:53
Speaker
And I'm Anna Bezu, a corporate girl bridging business and impact, helping young people connect everyday choices to long-term change in society.
Podcast Journey and Reflections
00:01:01
Speaker
Anna, this is our very last episode together for this podcast season. And while we would normally dive into our regular tunnel vision check, I wanted to take the beginning of this episode to reflect a bit on the show that's been.
00:01:15
Speaker
my God, I honestly cannot believe we got to this point. Like it's been quite the journey and yes, much to reflect on.
Political Campaign Background
00:01:23
Speaker
Quite the journey indeed. So when we started out back in February this year, we were rapidly hurtling towards the federal election, the For Our Future campaign was kicking off, Australia was witnessing the introduction of its very first iteration of the Wellbeing of Future Generations bill.
00:01:41
Speaker
It practically seemed like the entire political landscape was just in fierce campaign mode. So naturally, we were hyper focused on making future generations policy a more accessible conversation to young Australians and really breaking down what is in it for you as a young person when it comes to policies and laws that are about long term well being, about intergenerational fairness.
Expert Insights on Future Generations Policy
00:02:03
Speaker
Over the last 10 episodes, we have brought to you insights from job-sharing candidates, young policy specialists and advocates, political representatives and global experts in future generations policy, all distilled into digestible, actionable content designed to equip you with an understanding of how future generations policy is relevant to you and how you can help push our decision makers to consider the long-term impacts of the choices they make.
00:02:30
Speaker
So now that we're wrapping up, we wanted to reflect on the last six months we've had.
Excitement for 'For Our Future' Campaign
00:02:35
Speaker
This is our 10th episode today, and we're very excited to see what the next chapter of the For Our Future campaign brings.
00:02:42
Speaker
While this show may be coming to an end, the campaign itself is certainly not over. There's lots of up-and-coming projects in the pipeline, so do keep an eye out. But to begin with, I just wanted to create some space, Anna, to ask, how are you feeling after these 10 episodes?
00:02:57
Speaker
What have been some of your biggest takeaways from our journey together? Honestly, Claire, it has been the biggest privilege to be part of this journey. I think we were obviously very ambitious when we first started out. we didn't I didn't think we fully grasped what it took and the tech knowledge that we needed to get to this point.
00:03:16
Speaker
um But looking back, it's it's astounding how much ground we really did cover. And I've been most struck and and contemplating and reflecting on the fact that there's a lot of appetite in young Australians to engage with future generations policy.
00:03:30
Speaker
And when it's broken down, and certainly I saw this for myself when I could see it broken down in a more digestible way. I could really see it like as an as a mindset applicable to everyday choices that I was making. And that was actually really inspiring
Long-term Thinking in Politics
00:03:45
Speaker
for me. And so one of the biggest takeaways is that intergenerational fairness isn't this abstract concept as I kind of thought of when I first started out.
00:03:54
Speaker
It's deeply connected to the choices we make right now, whether that's in housing, climate, health or the economy. And I've loved seeing how many incredible people are already leading the way both here in Australia and internationally. And it really reinforced that long-term thinking in politics is possible, but it does need constant public pressure, um creativity in how we communicate, and a willingness to bring diverse voices into the conversation. so To wrap it all up, I feel very proud of what we've created together. And while the podcast chapter is wrapping up, I'm energized knowing the campaign is still moving and there is so much momentum that is being created.
00:04:30
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh my gosh. So much
Introduction to Dr. Sophie Scamps
00:04:33
Speaker
momentum. And Those are just such accurate takeaways, particularly the one about intergenerational fairness, I think, not being lofty, distant, sort of unreachable ideal that we can't be connected to. Because you're right, it is in the everyday choices that we make. And it's not something that just our policymakers, our political leaders and decision makers should be practicing, but us as humans too.
00:04:57
Speaker
And that cultural shift that we always talk about trying to unlock in Australia, well, it's something that, you know, we just as humanity need to get better at practicing. So this is a journey, I think, for all of us, not just to our leaders or our decision makers. And yeah, I'm really excited to see where the campaign goes next.
Dr. Scamps' Motivation and Journey to Politics
00:05:16
Speaker
Indeed, I think the the campaign ahead is going to only grow and, you know, reflecting on one of our episodes that we had with Jacob Ellis, he spoke about the 10 year anniversary of the legislation of the Future Generations Commissioner and and like the evolution of that journey. And it's it's I'm so curious to have this conversation with you in 2035 reflect and reflect on the impacts and the ripple effects and and all the things that have occurred and the changes that were able to be made as a consequence of us deciding to platform this conversation and trying to bring about as much attention to it as possible because it's important.
00:05:54
Speaker
I can't imagine 10 years down the track, who knows, maybe we'll have a wellbeing and future generations commission by then, maybe we'll have an act. We'll certainly, hopefully have had a national conversation on future generations. And hopefully, I mean, my hope is that at the very least, we have a vision, a shared vision, an inclusive one, one that's full of clarity and compassion for where we want to be headed next as a nation.
00:06:18
Speaker
And it's a vision that has been crafted and shaped by all Australians. 100%. I think everybody, every single human needs a vision of their life. And to be part of it in our own small way um to kind of encourage that, I think is really, really proud of it.
00:06:34
Speaker
I'm really happy. And yeah, long may it continue. Oh, I'm so happy that you're happy. That makes me, yeah, that makes me glow. Amazing. So I feel like, yeah, we could talk about the reflections and the individual, guess, but we have someone pretty special on for our final episode. We we save someone very, very special for for this one. It's a guest that for me is a personal full circle moment.
00:06:59
Speaker
It's somebody who has deeply inspired me and made me think differently about the future generations, Bill, and understanding my own behaviors because This person for me really represents someone who brings to life the tangible practices of what it takes to create this paradigm shift.
00:07:18
Speaker
So I'll leave it to you, Claire. Would you do the honors of introducing her? It would be my pleasure too, Anna. So today we have the pleasure of being joined by the wonderful Dr. Sophie Scamps, independent federal member for McKellar.
00:07:32
Speaker
She's a former emergency doctor and GP, middle-distant athlete, mum of three, founder of community-led non-profit Our Blue Dot, and one of Australia's most inspiring community leaders.
00:07:43
Speaker
In 2022, Sophie made the bold decision to leave behind a secure medical career and run as one of the Teal community independents, stepping into the corridors of political power to fight for stronger action on climate, integrity, and ultimately the defining policy issue of our time, intergenerational equity.
00:08:02
Speaker
Her grassroots, volunteer-powered campaign unseated a long-standing incumbent and marked a new wave of community-driven politics in Australia. Sophie is now championing systemic change through initiatives like the Wellbeing of Future Generations Bill and as a co-chair of the newly re-established Australian Parliamentary Group for Future Generations.
00:08:22
Speaker
She's at the fore of a growing movement to shape policy that looks beyond the immediate and cares deeply for those yet to come. In our conversation with her today, we'll hear about moments that defined her leadership, what it really takes to stand up for intergenerational equity in a slow and siloed system, and how she is driving a bold and ambitious agenda in the 48th Federal Parliament.
00:08:44
Speaker
Welcome to the show, Sophie. How are you feeling? Feeling really good, excited to be at the start of another parliamentary term, and very excited to be here as well, because this is such a wonderful um movement, the wellbeing of future generations. So look forward to chatting to you.
00:08:59
Speaker
Wonderful. Well, we wanted to kick things off today with your decision to run specifically. Beforehand, you had a secure, respected career as a GP. Can you tell us what was the first spark that led you to trade all that stability for the unpredictability of public office?
00:09:18
Speaker
Oh, thanks, Claire. Yes, so there was a number of things I think that sort of helped me step up into this role. So as you mentioned, I was a GP and that was a career I absolutely loved, loved being a GP, loved my patients. And so I wasn't looking...
00:09:32
Speaker
at all. I'd never been involved in politics and wasn't looking to step up into politics. So it was quite a surprise to find myself here. But ah what I did get involved in was a a democracy project. So a lot of people in my area were feeling neglected, taken for granted, not listened to on a number of really key issues. And one of them was climate change, of course.
00:09:53
Speaker
And so got involved in that democracy building project and sort of grew out of that. But I think the things that really um motivated me was one, um as I said, was a doctor but had done a Masters of Public Health.
00:10:07
Speaker
And a really core piece of that is the social determinants of health. So what actually are the foundations of health and wellbeing of all humans? And that's the real question.
00:10:19
Speaker
basic things like access to food, shelter, water security, those types of things. And all of these things are really under threat from climate change. So although I was working away with a cohort of patients, doing my best to support them in in our community, I had this niggling sensation at the back of my mind that I could be doing a whole lot more from the policy level if I was acting in that capacity.
Community-driven Campaign Success
00:10:43
Speaker
So there was that. And then, of course, had children and all parents want the very best for their children. And all I could think was what type of future are we leaving them ah if we're leaving them a world where they would be facing increasing extreme weather events, a world that was increasingly insecure and unsafe.
00:11:02
Speaker
And i think many parents parents feel the same way. We strive so hard to give our children the best of everything. But again, it comes back to those fundamentals. What are we trying to provide for our children? And we see where we are at the moment where the younger generations, it's getting harder and harder to own your own home.
00:11:20
Speaker
We've got an increasing epidemic of mental ill health. We're facing climate and environmental destruction. So there's all these different things. So we really need to look at what we are leaving our children and our future generations. And so those were the things that drove me.
00:11:34
Speaker
And there's a little story I tell. I think one day my kids and I were getting involved in, ah well, we had a bit of a conversation around climate and I said, oh, it's something that you guys will probably have to deal with, try to be really tread really gently with it. And this beautiful 12-year-old boy who's a friend of one of my sons turned to me said, yes, because you adults have failed us.
00:11:54
Speaker
And that's what really pushed me to make a difference. I suddenly realised, yeah, we have. We have utterly failed our children. Despite always talking about wanting the best for our kids, we need to do a whole lot more.
00:12:06
Speaker
I think that is ah deeply moving and courageous to hear that from 12 year old and feel that personal conviction to be like, you know what, I'm to put my hand up and I'm actually going to do something. So I really, again, you could have very easily had a very different chapter of your life being mom of three, the stability of a medical career, and it could have looked entirely different. But so incredible to see that you've completely reshaped and redesigned it.
00:12:31
Speaker
And I should say, Anna, nice to see you too When I made a decision to do something, when I sort of had that awakening, you should as you say, i didn't think, oh, I'll go into politics, I'll become a federal politician. It was really, i will do in my life what I possibly can to make a difference and in my family's life.
00:12:48
Speaker
and And it did start with that ah community organisation, Blue Dot, to do what we could in our own local community to reduce waste and emissions. And it grew out of that. Yes, and I really love that. I think what I really see is at the heart of your story is is that community aspect. And, you know, to go into a little bit more about your story in 2022, you won the seat of McKellar with a 15%
Wellbeing of Future Generations Bill
00:13:12
Speaker
swing, unseating a liberal incumbent in what was deemed a safe blue ribbon seat for 70 years.
00:13:17
Speaker
It's no easy feat. So your campaign was powered by over 1500 community volunteers from students and retirees to business owners and parents. No major party machinery, no big lobby group backing.
00:13:29
Speaker
So Sophie, what did this campaign teach you about the power of people coming together and what surprised you about it? I think the most surprising thing, as I mentioned before, I was involved in this sort of democracy building project. And it was really something that we had heard another electorate doing that had a community independent representative. And it was called Kitchen Table Conversations, where basically you you got together a group of people who may never have thought or talked politics before.
00:13:57
Speaker
but really just ask them a few simple questions. What are the issues that are important to you? What solutions would you like to see? And it was really a listening exercise. And I remember thinking, oh, when people first sat down, you could see that a few people were sitting there thinking, oh, my friends have invited me along, but what are we going to be talking about here? This is all a bit sus.
00:14:15
Speaker
But in actual fact, I think the most surprising thing how how much people really loved it. Like they just loved it. They came out invigorated because so many people said, nobody has asked us before what's important. Nobody has listened. We're always talked at, we're always talked to and told. and And so people found it incredibly, I think, motivating and activating to have somebody ask them those simple questions. And You know, we we grow up to think you don't talk religion, you don't talk politics, and you don't talk money. But in actual fact, politics infiltrates every single thing that we do, because anything that's important in our lives impacts our lives is, you know, political in some way. So we do have strong opinions about many, many things. So...
00:15:00
Speaker
That was, I think the most surprising is how excited people were just to be listened to. And then the other thing that really, really surprised us was but just how passionate people were for change. People were really fed up being taken for granted.
00:15:15
Speaker
And so there was just this extraordinary response by the community, people stepping up, people who had never before been involved in politics, definitely never been involved in a political campaign, who just wanted to make change. And so, you know, they were the ones that stepped up. And Cathy McGowan, who really is um one of the forebears of the whole community independent movement, she used to do a bit of mentoring for us and she'd be saying, you know,
00:15:44
Speaker
There's no cavalry coming over the hill to save us. There's only us. You've got to step up, you've got to turn up and you've got to speak up and you've got to flex that courage muscle and be the one to step up. And so many people in our community, all across the community, like you said, heeded that call and really enjoyed stepping up and being involved. And so people would start responding probably gently doing something like letterboxing, something not too sort of confrontational, but then they might sort of step through as they got bolder and bolder to door knocking. And door knocking is quite confronting, but in actual fact, now people don't mind, people do appreciate being asked questions, you know, what's important to you. So it actually ends up being quite an enjoyable experience in many ways. And I think
00:16:29
Speaker
I think many people really did find it enjoyable, but also really connecting. A lot of people found that they had this network of people that they didn't know existed before and really connected with. So it's been a wonderful way to build our community as well.
00:16:45
Speaker
Gee, how energising. I think... What resonates most with me there is how from a community-powered and backed campaign, you really brought back one of those key responsibilities of political leadership that seems to have just been, over the last decade, lost along the way, which is listening, right? And that's ultimately what people want to feel from their political representatives. They want to feel heard. They want to feel included and like people are actually advocating the things that they most care about. And through your campaign, you were able to build back what should be ultimately at the heart of politics, which is people.
00:17:23
Speaker
And yeah, I think it's just deeply moving to see how through a community powered campaign, that's something that's been able to be resurfaced. So moving along now to some of the things you've been championing actively during your time in parliament, you found yourself at the forefront of this movement for intergenerational fairness and equity and for building a better future for the generations that are going to come tomorrow.
00:17:49
Speaker
And with that, I guess the capstone in February this year was the introduction of your wellbeing of future generations private members bill, which is a bold call for long-term thinking in policymaking.
00:18:02
Speaker
Could you tell us, Sophie, what does this bill do in practice? And if it was legislated, and passed into law, how would it help ensure that young people and those not yet born have a voice in decisions we make today?
Short-termism in Politics
00:18:16
Speaker
I think the first thing to say is that this bill that i introduced into Parliament is based very heavily on one that was enacted 10 years ago into Wales. And so it has been done, it's doable, it's in practice in Wales, and they've had a fundamental shift in the way they do their policymaking. So In those kitchen table conversations I was talking about, we asked people, you know, what are what are some of the big issues that really drive them insane when it comes to politics? And one of the big things that came up over and over again was this short-termism. You know, we live in such a short-term cycle. and
00:18:51
Speaker
That is really what this bill is set out to try and address is the fact that we have multiple crises that we're facing right now. We have the climate, environment, housing crisis, cost of living crisis, mental health. We have gambling that's infiltrated. Gambling advertising infiltrated our everyday lives, as has junk food advertising.
00:19:12
Speaker
There's multiple issues that we have seen coming for decades now, and I'll add to that before the the diabetes epidemic that we've got happening as well. So there's these issues that we've seen coming for decades, and yet we know the solutions, we know what to do, and yet we are still unable to make change to prevent these crises from happening.
00:19:35
Speaker
And what is at the the core of that is this short-term decision-making. So what this bill does is tries to embed long-term thinking, long-term vision and long-term decision-making into our policymaking framework. So the principle that the whole bill is based around is that In meeting the needs of the current generation, we cannot undermine future generations or compromise future generations for meeting that their needs.
00:20:03
Speaker
That's what we're currently doing right now. That's how we live right now. So that's the principle that underpins everything. But then there's a number of different different facets to it. And one of them is ah a ah commission and a commissioner that oversees the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act.
00:20:18
Speaker
There's a conversation that's to be had, a national conversation to set out actually what is the vision for our nation? What type of Australia do we want to hand down to our children? And they did this in Wales and it was interesting to hear the commentary, like it it shouldn't be so strange for a country to have a vision.
00:20:36
Speaker
And Australia doesn't really have one. We just sort of fling from Australia term to term, from government to government, and we flip-flop in different directions. But if we had a clear vision for this nation, we would know the direction that we're heading in, and that would sort of inform policymaking, I think, in a very different way.
00:20:54
Speaker
And then also very fundamental to the the bill is a legislative framework that sets out how we do have this long-term decision-making process. And I should say another big issue that we face is not only short-termism, but it's also siloed thinking. And I've seen this really in practice in Parliament and you see it happening. So you have the ah resources minister and department acting in conflict to the environment minister or the climate change minister or the you know Treasury minister.
Problems with Siloed Thinking in Government
00:21:25
Speaker
So you have all these different areas of policy working in conflict with one another rather than in concert. So it's a real problem. There's even competition from within a government, let alone from you know another party or another side of politics. So it's quite strange that this is the way we do politics without thinking about what's what the long-term impact of our decisions will be and how it's going to impact other facets of our life.
00:21:53
Speaker
And I'll just give a ah quick example of how it works in practice in Wales. There's an example that they usually use is that Wales was facing a real issue with traffic congestion on their motorways. And so the decision was made by the Roads and Traffic Department, okay, what we'll do is we'll build a new part of the motorway.
00:22:12
Speaker
And that was going to take up almost the entire budget for the country. And then this new framework came in, the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act came in. So there's a new framework of thinking and making decisions.
00:22:23
Speaker
And within that framework, not only do you have to consider the department and the area that you work in, but you also have to consider how it's going to impact other areas on meeting their wellbeing goals
Case Study from Wales
00:22:35
Speaker
as well. So in thinking about a solution to the motorway traffic issue, they had to think, okay, if we make a motorway, how's that going to impact on the environment, on the pollution, on climate change, on public health, on on our economy, all those types of things. And so when you feed in all those different areas of interest, you come up with a totally different solution in the end. And so in the end, they invested far more heavily in public transport and connecting different communities through public transport. So it was a totally different outcome when you consider it from ah multidimensional perspective rather than just a siloed perspective.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I find that that what you said essentially is it it shouldn't be such a novel, innovative concept for a country to have a vision. And I think that it speaks to this whole solution, which is we want to create a solution that works, that brings together these different interests, these different parties, and to like move forward and look forward to something that we can all get behind. And also, i think there's a real, obviously, such a big part of it is the representation for people who are yet to be in the room who are not in the room yet, but in 10, 15, 20, 30 years time, they will be in the room. And we don't want to have that happen again, where it's like, you know what, I think we might have failed the younger generations. We didn't do enough. And so I love that this is a really tangible, practical solution.
00:23:58
Speaker
to helping our young people, those not even born yet, but also as a whole, the holistic health of our country. And so to kind of go a little bit further, obviously we're at a a pretty interesting time. Let's talk about what's next for this bill in Australia.
Prospects of the Bill in New Parliament
00:24:14
Speaker
Now that we're in a new parliament, we understand that the bill needs to be reintroduced. do you think that there is a chance that we see the ambitions of the Wellbeing of Future Generations bill come to life during the 48th parliament?
00:24:25
Speaker
And are there any changes you think need to be made to strengthen the protection it offers for the wellbeing of future generations? Thanks, Anna. There's so many positive signs from around the world where there's been progress in different areas. So, of course, we've already got the bill enacted in Wales and also we have really positive signs and positive steps that's happening in the EU and other countries as well. So, with the EU, they've already got a commissioner dedicated to intergenerational fairness. So, These are really exciting, very large steps forward. So I think it is a really exciting time.
00:25:02
Speaker
And I say here in Australia, we're still catching up. I think we're just catching up. But we did see last Parliament some promising steps as well in that We had the measuring what matters, the wellbeing budget being implemented by the Treasurer. So that was an exciting step forward.
00:25:17
Speaker
And then, of course, we've got the parliamentary friends of our future generations, which is really positive as well, and bringing together all that academic support and different organisations that are all pushing for this. So it's a really strong coalition supporting this. And then Again, in Parliament, just socialising this, getting the idea out there. So people are talking about it within Parliament House, but also when they go back to their electorates, they're talking about it with people there because people are really concerned about
00:25:48
Speaker
both what's happening to the younger generations, for the future generations. But yeah, it's it is something that is top of mind for many people. And also this issue of short-termism. People are just really, think, frustrated with this short-term decision-making that we face over and over and over again. So I'm really positive about this. And I think the more we talk about it, the better. And we'll be doing some projects here in my own electorate of McKellar, doing a sort of mini, the McKellar we want. So what type of vision...
00:26:17
Speaker
do we want for
Australian Parliamentary Group for Future Generations
00:26:18
Speaker
McKellar? What do we want to hand down to our our children and future generations here? And I think it's an exciting opportunity to start exploring those. That's so beautiful, the mini McKellar we want.
00:26:29
Speaker
It's just like what we've the Wales we want process. I love that. And you're absolutely right, Sophie. There is so much community ambition and momentum for future generations and for a different framework of thinking and decision-making in Australia. You touched upon already the re-established Australian Parliamentary Group for Future Generations.
00:26:50
Speaker
It's now been re-established. It's got ah an impressive group of more than 20 members, this new parliament. and I'd love to shift gears and talk a little bit more about that initiative now.
00:27:01
Speaker
Could you tell us what's the ambition, because we had the group last term as well, what's the ambition behind the group this time around and how do you see it acting as a key lever for helping to drive more momentum for the Australian Future Generations movement?
00:27:17
Speaker
We know there are a couple of meetings coming up in September and November. Could you tell us what are some of the things you're hoping to achieve in those meetings? So I think last term of Parliament was probably more introducing the idea, sort of really working away at what would we do here in Australia, but also so it was quite a new idea for many of us here, both in Parliament and in Australia. And I think also developing that coalition, ah the Intergenerational Fairness Coalition, bringing all those different groups together who've been working on this. But I think we're far more powerful when we work together. so
00:27:51
Speaker
There was a lot of building going on last term and I think it culminated with my bill, the wellbeing of future generations bill. So that was really exciting. And now it's building on that and I think continuing to socialise the idea, share the idea, make sure that more and more people, there's more and more conversations being had about it all around the country. And so when we have those meetings coming up, I think there's some really powerful thought leaders that we can invite along who are speaking out really strongly on this. So there's somebody like
00:28:24
Speaker
ah Ken Henry, who was a former treasurer, and he's called it a willful act of bastardry, the way that our tax system is working against younger generations and future generations and the the legacy that's going to be left for our future generations to clean up. So he's a very powerful champion for change and tax reform.
00:28:45
Speaker
You know, the only fair thing was if they too had an equal opportunity to to own housing, such as we did when I was growing up. And then there's other powerful voices as well. And I think continuing to have those really important conversations, to normalise these conversations and to show what is actually working in other places around the world and how actually Australia is a bit behind and we need to catch up.
Challenges in Shifting Institutional Paradigms
00:29:09
Speaker
But I always say the work that you do as a parliamentarian, the work you do outside Parliament House as almost as important as what the work you do inside Parliament House. So it's all about the national conversations that will be stimulating and provoking as well.
00:29:26
Speaker
And I love that. I think like ah overall it it sounds very positive in the trajectory that we're moving in that there is a lot of traction and people are very excited by this prospect and this almost shift in paradigm towards our thinking and approaching it it with a completely different lens.
00:29:42
Speaker
But I also know that and change is difficult. Institutional change is really challenging. And whilst we do have really great examples from Wales and Finland's approach to foresight and government decision making and Singapore Centre for Strategic Future, I'm curious and if you could go a little bit deeper from your experiences and from these conversations that you have been having.
00:30:04
Speaker
do you think that we're actually catching up? And what do you think it will take for us to truly embed this kind of long-term thinking into the way that we govern this country?
Demographic and Political Shifts
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the big things in our favour is there has been ah quite a large demographic change. And so we see you know younger vote ah younger people being able to vote now. And I think there's that growing intergenerational equity is a huge issue. And I think everyone is starting to recognise that now. And it's not just young people recognising it, but it's also...
00:30:36
Speaker
parents and grandparents who are realising that actually they may have to live in an area where their grandchildren can't live because they just cannot afford to live there. So we face, I think, I can't remember who the commentator was, but just the other day said that Sydney may be a city without grandchildren.
00:30:54
Speaker
So it's something quite horrific to consider. And actually, Sydney is the second most expensive city in the world to live. And where we are on the northern beaches of Sydney is the second most expensive part of Sydney. So you can imagine more and more young people are having to move out of the area. They can't continue to live where they grew up.
00:31:13
Speaker
They're having to separate from their families and their friends network. So it really is very disruptive. it's ah It's hugely disruptive. And I think when you have a disruption like that, that's when change can happen. And not only are we facing just one you know crisis, we're facing facing multiple crises. And I think it when you have people coming out and and calling it a willful act of bastardry, I think there really is an incentive for us to be acting and Also, I think if there's been a big demographic change and if politicians don't listen listen to the younger voters, then I just don't think that they'll be um ah re-elected.
00:31:53
Speaker
So hopefully there will
Role of Youth in Demanding Change
00:31:54
Speaker
be change. And because one of the things I think we really need to be doing is thinking how we can, we used to be the nation of a fair go, the country of a fair go, but currently I don't think that we can call ourselves that anymore.
00:32:07
Speaker
I don't think that younger people do have that same opportunity that, say, I had or my parents had when they were growing up. Yeah, I mean, that's ultimately when you think about what it means to actually have a fair go, is it truly fair if our kids, our grandkids are not being able to access those same kinds of opportunities? And it's not.
00:32:29
Speaker
And I think those kinds of statements from the likes of Ken Henry, Wilford Act of Bastardry, and in the media as well about Sydney soon to become a city with no grandchildren, they're really powerful statements and that's really strong language. And I think it's those kinds of statements that are ultimately starting to cut through. And I can only imagine the kind of disillusionment that might come from that.
00:32:54
Speaker
I know that that sense of disillusionment, it's not necessarily linked to politics itself, but more with our leaders and our institutions and the ways in which those institutions facilitate a model of decision making that doesn't support the kind of future that young people are imagining for themselves. And even so, as the recent federal election back in May just demonstrated,
00:33:16
Speaker
our young Australians are deeply in search of change. They yearn for a different way of thinking and decision making in this country. And so from your seat in Parliament, Sophie, are there any signs that this kind of energy from our young Australians is actually starting to break through? And if so, how can they best channel that passion into meaningful action?
00:33:37
Speaker
I definitely feel like there's a change. I feel like there's a big change. And even that is reflected in the fact that there is a large healthy crossbench of community independents now representing their communities in Parliament. And I think a lot of that comes from, as you said,
00:33:54
Speaker
coming back to those really basic things such as listening and bringing people back into their democracy. So people were feeling ignored, it wasn't and young people were definitely feeling ignored. I think one of the things that really triggered me to think about the wellbeing of young people as well was when there was that school strike, the first school strike for climate change, and I took my kids along. They wanted to go But then Scott Morrison came out in the media saying, you kids have got to go back to school. You should go back to school and let the adults deal with it. Well, the reason the kids were out demonstrating was because the adults were not dealing with it in an adequate way. So, you know, that undermining of young people who had genuine concerns rather than listening to them to belittle them and tell them all to just go back to school. I just, I found that infuriating. So,
00:34:41
Speaker
Look, I think things like that, that type of movement, the school strike for climate change, I think young people are finding their voice and they are informed and they are extremely articulate and eloquent. I have a lot of young people that would love you know love to chat to me about politics, love to tell me what's important to them and are trying to find all sorts of different ways that they can get involved in in their democracy. And so i do think it's a really promising time.
00:35:07
Speaker
And just again, with what is happening overseas, what we see happening in the EU and in Wales and many other places, as you mentioned, Singapore, Finland, many, many places, is that there is a move to think we need to find a solution to this short-termism. How do we embed long-term vision, long-term thinking and long-term decision-making into our policymaking framework? And this Wellbeing of Future Generations bill is how you do it. It has the framework, it has the vision, it has the commission and the commissioner to oversee it.
00:35:40
Speaker
So all those practical steps are there. So it really is just continuing to have that conversation, let people know that there is a solution. I think it's huge. hugely disillusioning, as you said, when people just think we're stuck in this intractable cycle of short-termism and nothing actually gets dealt with. We just go around in circles and we kick the can down the road and it just gets worse and worse and worse.
00:36:01
Speaker
But there is a solution. This is it. And what is really needed is the political will to get it done. But I should say that things don't change in politics unless the people want it to change. And so a lot of what I think we will be doing and I'll be doing is having many of those conversations, just letting people know that there is a different way of doing things, a far healthier way of doing things, and one that does look at the wellbeing both of our current generations but also future
Vision for Fair Opportunities in Australia
00:36:31
Speaker
generations.
00:36:31
Speaker
um And I think it's a really exciting time to be involved in politics. Yeah, you know what, Sophie, I think back to my time at university, Claire's in university, it's it's so beautiful, but that was a long time for me. And I just think, oh gosh, I had a lot of that ambition, that drive, and rage, that anger, you know, I would see the injustices, but I didn't really have...
00:36:54
Speaker
as clear of a path. And I think, you know, had I had this, had your solutions, had your role modeling, I think that I would have felt what I feel today, which is a real sense of hope toward the future and a real sense of there are clear, big issues that we are facing.
00:37:09
Speaker
But I have faith that we're doing what we can to really course correct. And I'm curious. Yeah, I wonder in 2030, 2045, 2050, if we have this conversation again, what are the problems that we're talking about? I imagine we would have already gone through the foundational building stages of everything and kind of ah allowing us to address challenges.
00:37:32
Speaker
different problems. And I think that's really inspiring as well. And so I want to throw to our last question, which is around your legacy. And I could probably understand the answer to what you're about to share with this question, but I would love to hear it from you. If you could define your lasting gift you want to leave for your community and for those future generations, what would it be? And what kind of Australia do you hope your work helps to build and leave to future leaders?
00:37:57
Speaker
I would love us to become the nation of a fair go again, where everyone feels hopeful for the future and feels like they do have a fair go. I think that would be incredible. And I think we're a long way off that at the moment, but...
00:38:12
Speaker
I do think we were there five, six, maybe four decades ago, three decades ago, but we've moved away from it. So we do know what to do and and now this is a way to get back there. And the other thing I would say is that I would hope to leave a different way of making policy decisions as well because we are stuck in this short-term cycle at the moment.
00:38:35
Speaker
We keep thinking about the next election cycle, but um I think getting that vision, if we had a clear vision for our nation, which people across the country felt that they had had a role in generating and creating, i think people would feel really engaged, one, in their democracy, but two, in that vision.
00:38:54
Speaker
I think that's really important. so i would love for Australia to have a vision for our future and I would love for there to be different way of making decisions. policy decisions that is not just siloed, which is holistic, which takes into consideration multiple aspects of wellbeing as well. And all those different areas, when you make a decision, not only thinking about the one area that you're making a decision about, but how it will impact all the other ones, your environment, the health,
00:39:21
Speaker
the pollution, the climate, all those different things, our economy and how we do that holistic decision making. I think that would be an incredible legacy that we could leave for future generations.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:39:44
Speaker
Oh, what a special note to finish on. Right from our very first episode where we started out by talking about the wellbeing of future generations bill, which had just been introduced at the time to concluding with a conversation with the very leader who introduced it.
00:39:59
Speaker
Well, we just hope the show has inspired you to see what's truly in future generations policy for you. That's exactly it, Claire. We hope you now have the tools, the insights and the confidence to be able to advocate for your future wellbeing as a young person and to stand up for the rights of all those that will follow you.
00:40:15
Speaker
And while we won't be back with another episode anytime soon, we will be continuing to find ways to inject momentum into the Australian Future Generations movement. And we hope that you will join us in building a shared vision for a more inclusive, more sustainable future for every Australian.
00:40:33
Speaker
All right. Well, that's it for now. We hope you enjoyed listening to us. If you liked the What's In It For You show, leave us a five-star review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen in from.
00:40:44
Speaker
And if you want to get involved in our movement, we would love to hear from you. Please send us an email at hello at foundationsfortomorrow.org. get oh And oh, Anna, I think I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, but this is the last time I will say it to everyone listening.
00:40:59
Speaker
Sign our petition for a well-being of Future Generations Act. The link is in the description below. I'm Claire Beaton-Wells. And for the last time, I'm Anna Bezu. Thank you for listening to the What's In It For You podcast.
00:41:13
Speaker
Bye!