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Stress, Happiness & Motivation. Deeper Conversations with John & John
248 Plays6 years ago
John & John go into some very deep discussion this week all about stress, happiness and finding continued motivation. How do you talk about past events and experience without sounding like you are whining? Finding the line and learning how to communicate in the early stages of growing a business. John Saunders visits YG1 and Onsrud endmill grinding factory! John Grimsmo goes all in on Kern training and it is blowing his mind!
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Business Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the business of machining episode 157. My name is John Saunders. And my name is John Grimsmough. And this is the podcast where two buddies talk about how good and sometimes how frustrating it is to run a business. Yeah.
Challenges in Business Partnerships
00:00:17
Speaker
I like the word lonely because actually, I was literally thinking that there are some days recently where I miss having a partner.
00:00:28
Speaker
Anyone who knows me knows how much I hate partnerships, which just tells you it's a compromise. It's tough. I've heard of a lot of other business partnerships and I'm a business partnership with my brother.
00:00:49
Speaker
It's tough when it comes to responsibility and who owns what and who's responsible for what. And especially if that's not fully clear or...
Emotions in Business Operations
00:01:01
Speaker
or equal, you know? Well, there's a human element that will never go away in the history of humanity, which is kind of like emotions, feelings, sensitivity, what's going on in your home life. And sometimes these are problems that don't really exist when things are going really well, whether that's profits or whether it's just operations. But then, you know, most people are nonconfrontational to some extent. So most people would rather just not pick
Communication in Partnerships
00:01:29
Speaker
fights. Right. So these things tend to not
00:01:31
Speaker
always want to be addressed. And that's probably the right way, but then it's kind of the forest fire issue of when we have a forest fire, a lot of things burn down. Oh, sure. Yeah. I'm the king of not addressing those kind of issues.
00:01:48
Speaker
But yeah, but it goes back to like, when you're just, it's hard. Um, I wouldn't say it's easy, but when you're honest about it and, um, this, the, the skill of, you know, it's like kind of like total ownership. It's on you. Like it's your responsibility to, to, to share that stuff and communicate and talk about it and not ignore it. Um, and, and just deal with it. And if it doesn't work, you got to say that to somebody and I very few people,
00:02:16
Speaker
You know hate that like sometimes people don't like being told what to do, but if they explain it's not you know Like I know you John you're not you could become a lot more direct and still be far from offending people
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. But that's the fear, too, is, you know, I'm generally a very mild mannered, very nice, friendly, you know, it's no big deal kind of guy. Yet it's that fear of offending people fear of crossing the line, this imaginary line that everybody has a different level of that line. That often prevents me from
00:02:54
Speaker
either saying what needs to be said or what I think maybe should be said. And I've been doing it more and more. I've been working really hard to progress that skill and talent.
Self-Improvement in Business
00:03:05
Speaker
I think some people do have an
00:03:07
Speaker
they're more naturally quicker to go there than I am. So it's something I have to constantly work on, but I'm naturally better at other things that other people struggle with too. So it's, it's fun to be able to sit back. I mean, fun in a tongue in cheek way to be able to step back and like analyze.
00:03:25
Speaker
what I need work on and what I can actually make a difference on. And it's extra frustrating when I know what I need to work on. I am working on it, but I still don't put it into practice. Yeah, right. That pisses me off internally. And yeah. But look, the biggest step is sometimes admitting where you already got into. Like, look, I'm not good at it. That's OK. Good grief.
00:03:56
Speaker
And sometimes it's as simple as if it's an issue working with somebody else.
00:04:01
Speaker
when you're not reacting to an event or an emotional thing, just being like, look, Sam, I'm making up a name. You know, I don't like bringing this stuff up when it does happen. So what I need you to do is recognize, this is something that I need you to, some way of saying that that way, like kind of this is how we work together, I don't know.
00:04:27
Speaker
But are we making, like, are you, are we solving a problem that doesn't exist, John? Like, who cares? So you're not confrontational, right? Like, move on. Is that, is it, is it harming Grimmsville knives?
00:04:40
Speaker
Yes and no. Especially with eight people there, there's all kinds of stuff going on. And if not dealt with, then it festers and it gets worse or better, or you can't just leave stuff alone. And sometimes my idea of dealing with it later doesn't work out. Got it. But yeah. You're talking about more interpersonal stuff than actual legitimate machine shop operations.
00:05:06
Speaker
Absolutely. I was reading a book right now. Its basic premise for life is all unhappiness boils down to interpersonal relationships. Okay. That's a little sad.
00:05:25
Speaker
Well, you know, good, bad or otherwise, but, um, you start to boil down, you know, the struggles in life that whatever's currently dealing with and is it due to interpersonal relationships? Is it due to the fear of talking to somebody or, you know, somebody making you mad or, um, it, it even mad at yourself. Yeah. But it's interesting though, because I also have found that
Interpersonal Relationships and Emotions
00:05:52
Speaker
getting rid of the bad or fixing the bad is not the same as good things happening or being happy. That make sense?
00:06:04
Speaker
Like we all have our list of things that we want to do to ourselves better and so forth. And when I think about, okay, pausing when something happens, good or bad, and thinking about how you want to react instead of just talking or things like that, sort of just the interpersonal type stuff.
00:06:22
Speaker
doing a better job at that stuff and kind of checking that box of, okay, I met my personal goal. Like, okay, for you, like being more confrontational kind of sounds weird to say that, but you know, um, doing that isn't going to like make you smile. I don't think in my experience, it's not going to make you smile and happy and feel warm and proud. Like tell Meg what a great day you had. Like, so it's kind of like, man, I'm trying to, I'm trying to make myself better, but
00:06:50
Speaker
Actually doing it doesn't have a reward. I think we talked about this right a year ago. Like there's no there's no it's a good point You're getting rid of the stick, but you're still not eating the carrot true It's like but you're you're hopefully by stepping out of your comfort zone You're eliminating the toxicity that that exists in your life in your brain
00:07:12
Speaker
And sure, it's not done to be happy, but it lifts the weight off your shoulders. It hopefully removes the pain eventually, once it's done. And that's the thing, not everything is chasing happiness. But when you're bogged down and weighed down with the muck,
00:07:35
Speaker
And you know how it is. When that's stuck in your head, nothing else matters. That's what you're worried about. You can't be happy. You're just trudging along. And I noticed that I tend to
00:07:49
Speaker
I tend to buckle down and work harder when I'm in that kind of mindset. Because at least I can control myself. I can work harder. I can just focus and get this project done and not worry about that thing for a little while. Let me just turn my brain off and do some harder work.
00:08:09
Speaker
which is not the answer, but I noticed that's kind of where I default to. And that comes at the expense of time with my family and things like that. It's interesting though, because it's like the absence of pain or the absence of stress is not the same as the presence of happiness, whatever happiness is. But it's also how we...
00:08:36
Speaker
It's still a part, like I still would not do this stuff. I'm just conscious about thinking about what you, this could get very, pretty far away from end mills at this point. But I think you get the point about why do we do what we do? Like what makes me happy is seeing systems go in place and see the byproducts of product. Like I very much enjoy
00:09:03
Speaker
the building individual objects and then building weird, because I've told you this before and I feel comfortable, I'm not a leader. I'm not the type of person that really does a good job, I think, of motivating lots of people, but I think it's just, in a weird way, it's my selfish passion that is maybe a bit contagious that lets people latch onto that and say, hey, let's figure this out, or determination and so forth.
00:09:31
Speaker
And you can't be afraid to share that and be that selfishly happy person that is just so in love with what you do. Because that's your superpower. And it's the same for me. I freaking love this job. Good, bad, and otherwise. All the bad allows me to do all the good. So I take it like a man.
Sharing Passion in Business
00:10:01
Speaker
it's that contagious happiness that I strive for because I know it rubs off. So while you and I might not be standing in front of a crowd of hundreds of people, like everybody's pumping their fists, yeah, let's do this. We can just kind of be happy-go-lucky and hope it rubs off.
00:10:21
Speaker
The whole idea of the phrase, you make your own happiness is one of those things you certainly understand at different layers and levels and something I've gotten into a little bit better lately, which itself makes me happy was like,
00:10:39
Speaker
how you process crappy things. Last night, my MacBook froze. It hasn't frozen in like three years. Of course, I was like three paragraphs into typing something on a forum, which doesn't auto-save. It's like the one place in the world doesn't have an auto-save function. It's totally frozen. Did all the tricks to try to get it unfrozen.
00:11:04
Speaker
And that's when you have this moment. And it doesn't make you a weak person. It doesn't make you a person full of compromise. It's just like there's nothing happening in the world other than a few thoughts in my head that are reacting to a crappy event. Like it sounds no one's fault. Nothing happened. No one did anything to me. And there's just no reason. And I know this sounds
00:11:29
Speaker
Pedestrian when I maybe it does I think it does when I talk it out But it's so easy to get everybody does it ticked off and it's just a it's just a Storm in your head. There's no other you're not being you're not being it's like going back to the interpersonal stuff You're not being robbed by somebody or no one's taking anything from you or you're not worse off for it And but you perceive it as such right?
00:11:53
Speaker
This stupid computer is robbing your time, it's robbing your frustration, it's, you know, why can't it just work? Yet it's an unplanned event that has nothing to do with you, that is just random, and technology breaks down eventually, and et cetera, et cetera. Like, you didn't do anything.
00:12:11
Speaker
yet it still drives you crazy for as long as you let it. This didn't happen to me. Nothing happened to me. It's okay. It's just funny. It's taken me a while to get to this point, and I'm very happy to start.
Handling Unexpected Events
00:12:30
Speaker
I'd be lying if it happened to me perfectly every time, but it's awesome. I would encourage anyone to try that kind of approach.
00:12:42
Speaker
distill it down again that approach of that approach of Everything in the past is in the past you choose how to move forward and
00:12:54
Speaker
I grew up, I think, surrounded by a lot of people that would let things like that, they'd become irate or pissed off or mad or yelling or things like this happened to me. Well, nothing happened to you. It's very different if somebody was drunk driving and hit you or something. That's somebody else's bad decision affecting a weird example.
00:13:21
Speaker
the people that I've looked up to have this ability to process stuff and handle it and move forward and so forth and make the best of it. And that doesn't make you a weak, I guess that's what I'm saying, that doesn't make you a weak person. It doesn't make you somebody who just doesn't care when things that aren't progress happen, right? Not everything has to be, I don't know, hard to explain.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah, and I've noticed through the years, both directly and, you know, observationally, that some of the happier, more successful people that I know, they don't really have a rearview mirror, whereas some of the
00:13:59
Speaker
less happy people that aren't where they want to be in life, they only look in the rearview mirror and they always talk about the stories from the past and what people that screwed them or problems that happened in the past and they never got over it and yada yada yada.
00:14:19
Speaker
I only have a front windshield. I'm only looking forward. It's tricky, though, because as you and I, we have a bit of a louder voice in this space. I want us to be able to pull from our experiences and share stories
Aligning Business with Personal Goals
00:14:35
Speaker
without it sounding like whining, whether it be on a YouTube video or just in a one-on-one conversation with somebody, anybody.
00:14:45
Speaker
Because, I mean, there's a lot that got us here. And, you know, I still feel like I'm just getting started. There's a lot more life left. I mean, geez, you and I are in our mid 30s and we're doing okay now. And yeah, we got a long, very fun life ahead of us. But yeah, it took a lot to get us here. A lot of struggle, a lot of hardship. And how do you talk about that without
00:15:10
Speaker
being Mr. Whiny Vance. Yeah. I'm lockstep with you on that. I've been doing a lot of thinking about, actually, it would be a good segue, but I'm not ready to move on. I've been doing a lot of thinking about my goals for this year, and a lot of them tie into kind of pulling together the stuff that we do between the products, training, et cetera. And what's the theme behind that? What's the target market? What's your message? And how do you tie that together
00:15:39
Speaker
in a way that's just absolutely honest about who you are. And to me, it comes back to this idea that I want to work with anybody who wants to learn CNC. And that can happen at different stages, meaning it doesn't just mean you're like you and I were 10 years ago where you're trying to figure out what an x-axis is or what CAD is or how you go for the post, that kind of stuff. It could be somebody going from
00:16:05
Speaker
you know, from a garage machine up to a five axis or getting their first late. Like when you want to learn that stuff, I want to be that source of inspiration and education. And not necessarily, you know, we're just one, we're just going to be one tool in your toolbox, but I want to be in your top drawer as a resource. And I say that because I could totally lost my train of thought.
00:16:29
Speaker
Oh, I want to go for it. Well, I want to you talk about the past and I want to have so lost my train of thought. Sorry. I was going to make a stupid joke. You want to be in the open top drawer of your Kennedy box. Yeah. Yeah. It preferably in a very nice Kaiser and foam case. Exactly. No, we'd like I'd like to help. I'd like I genuinely would like to help in the context of also
00:16:56
Speaker
of also being a profitable business. There's been two really good conversations I wanted to share on the NYC forums. One was a guy who was trying to think about how to pay it forward.
Financial Stability and Growth
00:17:09
Speaker
Paying it forward is awesome, and that can be part of your theme, but you can't afford to pay it forward until you've paid yourself. I'll give you a crazy extreme example of Warren Buffett, who generally was not as charitable as some of his contemporaries were, because he was kind of like, oh, don't worry, I'll be charitable. But I'm basically giving away everything upon my debt. Until then, I can do more with that money to grow it, to make it. And Warren Buffett is not.
00:17:37
Speaker
a greedy person. He drives a Buick and lives in a modest house. He's the one person that can exemplify this. He's like, but I can do more with this money now to make change and do things. And you'll get it later. You will. But you can pay it. And there's a compromise to that too.
00:18:02
Speaker
You got to be able to pay yourself before you can afford to feed others. The other thing I want to say, which is an interesting question, but first of all, it was weird to sort of see and read about this podcast in a
00:18:17
Speaker
sort of outsider view, like with hearing people talk about it independently kind of thing. And the comment, which I could be misinterpreting, but I don't think I am, kind of said the concern with the bomb is that it makes this person feel like they've got to grow something in that vein. And it's something I wanted to directly say to everyone listening, but then to myself and to you is like, I don't want the
00:18:47
Speaker
sake of growth or chasing growth to be the drug that keeps me going every day. I very much respect businesses that are, plateaued is not the right word, but comfortable with where they are in this space. And it goes back to what we talked about last week. They have a sustainable model in place that works as is. And while they're always striving to be better and to do things better,
00:19:12
Speaker
they're okay with where things are today. That's really important to me and I think it ties a lot back to your identity and your purpose and what you do and how you deliver a product and how you're able to focus on what you do and not just always chasing shiny objects or that sort of a thing. Yeah and I find myself
00:19:33
Speaker
both conscious of that and falling into that trap, often. While I always want to be, and often am, very comfortable with where I am in this moment in time, I have goals and desires and wants and needs that I'm working towards. And it's that pull towards it that drives me forward. Maintenance is not exciting to me, but growth and
00:20:03
Speaker
pursuit is. I have to balance that with running a sustainable business that's not bleeding money because I'm just always chasing the next shiny object. It's a tricky balance. We're at a point right now where I'm not happy with where we are today because
00:20:27
Speaker
we just moved and got a new machine and we're not up to full capacity yet. So like in a month or two is where I'm, that's my short-term stride. Like once we're there and once we're operational and all the machines are working and making money, then that's good. But like today- But wasn't it part of the plan? Yes. Okay. So then you can't beat, that's not a fair criticism of yourself then.
00:20:55
Speaker
Sure. My point is I'm very short-term working towards something that I'm not happy with today because it's part of the plan. This is a huge, quick growth period for us that's not like a slow burn, but like a bonfire of just speed and activity and slowness and bleeding money because
00:21:23
Speaker
spending all kinds of money renovating the shop, getting new machines, and not making enough product. You're digging into that piggy bank. It's a weird period of time. It's a weird feeling. Little interpersonal relationship problems are like gasoline on the fire, just making things worse, even though they're not bad by themselves.
00:21:47
Speaker
And it's been, not to whine and complain, but it's been a very busy 2020 for
Delegation and Business Efficiency
00:21:54
Speaker
me. Yeah, fair enough. You okay? Everything going okay, though? Yeah, everything's, you know, it's just busy. I'm crazy busy. And I don't like being that guy that's like, oh, I'm so busy, but I've never been busier than I have the past six weeks.
00:22:15
Speaker
There's just so much to do. Seeing the pictures of you in the current training, I don't, I've basically chosen to not be that person anymore. And I'm not saying I won't make an exception in the future, but I just can't, and I'm okay with this. Well, obviously I say it with some hesitation, but I can't be the person that's in the training all day. I've got too much going on and
00:22:41
Speaker
what I want to do is build a business where I've got the right team in place to handle that stuff and I could still be the, you know, I'm still the whatever stupid proverb or analogy when you use the captain of the ship or steer, you know. No, it's not stupid at all. It's very true because nobody else is going to step up and do everything else that you have to do.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, but sometimes that's what I wanted to say. It's not even that I'm frantically running around putting out fires as the leader. It's really just that I want to be able to think critically and keep a bit of a clear head and respond to things as needed. I have done a pretty decent job.
00:23:22
Speaker
At that role, it's staying more calm and collected. This is going to sound really weird, but thinking about how you allocate resources within the business and thinking, okay, Ed is really good at this. Ed, I need you to focus on this the next two days. Alex, you are good at this. Go think about this. Or Alex, you know what? I don't know what we want here, but go explore a few things on this and then let me know what you come back with.
00:23:46
Speaker
That, to me, is one of the first real signs that hit me that we've taken this business beyond a overgrown sole proprietorship, one-man bank.
00:24:02
Speaker
And I hesitate, because I don't necessarily mean to say that that has to be a form of growth. But you've got people making decisions and critically thinking outside of your daily life. And I'll be honest, Sean, I love it. I absolutely love it. It's phenomenal. And it's something you and I have been talking about so much about. John Grimsmough is a huge resource. And I think
00:24:28
Speaker
as an outsider on backseat driving. It probably does make sense for you to get smart on the Kern, but that may be your last machine, John. Yeah, I was wondering about that. It was like the future machines that I have purchased, I was like, I don't know if I should do the training on that. I should have other people be the training. They can give me the Cliff Notes, but they can be in charge of that. And I actually got kind of excited when I was thinking about it like that. I mean, this is Kern. I couldn't turn down this opportunity.
00:24:58
Speaker
But yeah, it was that bit of a wake-up call of as we continue to grow and if we have more crazy machines, I can't be the only one that knows all this stuff. That's just not going to work. It's the Brazilian fisherman parable.
00:25:17
Speaker
Right. I was fishing and successfully fishing and you turned me into a fishing conglomerate and put a bunch of money in my bank and now I can go out with my grandson and fish, but I was doing that eight years ago. In terms of satisfying the needs we have in our life, I'm good. I was good. Exactly.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah, so growth is a tricky double-edged sword. And I guess the take-home here is just step back and understand what you're actually trying to do. And don't just be a bag blowing in the wind. Don't just let your business sweep you up and drag you wherever it's going to go, but realize where you want to take it and try to be very conscious of your decisions.
00:26:13
Speaker
you know, whether that's consciously making the decision to yell at somebody or not, or like, you know, calm down before you say anything. Or you're making critical decisions, well, do I take training on this machine or do I, you know, have one of my team do it?
00:26:30
Speaker
There's a sweet spot in this sort of small business machining entrepreneurship story that I would love to hear from others on. If anyone listening that has any good insights, please reach out, which is for the folks that don't want to grow, the folks that want to run a small shop, whether it's in a leased space or maybe even in a garage or like a standalone garage type of place, meaning it's not like in your kitchen with your family, but how do you grow beyond
00:27:01
Speaker
the solopreneur. How do you bring somebody in? We've got friends in this role that are interested in maybe hiring that first employee or maybe the profits are there so that they don't necessarily have to be the only ones. They can afford it, but how do you implement that? How do you take that one step? Hiring an employee to me was a real
00:27:23
Speaker
game changer with a lot of the ways you do things and organize things in the US with now getting involved with the workers comp and just changing a lot of different things. Other than having been through it, I wouldn't say I have a lot of advice to give.
Transformative Role of Hiring
00:27:42
Speaker
But it's interesting because I think that's a pretty powerful, as we talk about these micro factories and the stories that we've done, and if I ever moved on in life, that's probably what I'd want to do. I'd want to have a five axis and a lathe and maybe one person as a full-time guru in the shop to do lots of different things, but I'm still there. You know what I mean?
00:28:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's tricky because in regards to where we are today, hiring our first and second employee, we're probably the biggest contributor to that because we wouldn't be anywhere close to where we today if it was still Eric and I or me by myself.
00:28:29
Speaker
And it's like you were saying before. Once you have a lot of people on your team, you can start to delegate tasks and responsibilities and expertises. So I don't know how to run the lapping machine. I don't really know how to do heat treat. There's a lot of this business. I don't know how to edit anything in Premiere.
00:28:49
Speaker
There's a lot going on that I literally don't have my fingers in. I can manage and be a part of, but I can't do it all myself. Hiring that first employee, which for me was kind of a cheat because it was my father-in-law Barry.
00:29:07
Speaker
family, you know, deal arrangement, kind of like friendship, buddy, buddy kind of thing. So it was a bit of a cheat at the time, not like putting out a job posting and like hiring some note person you've never met before.
00:29:22
Speaker
But, you know, the first few months, when you look at them, you're like, I don't have anything for you to do right now. This is a struggling moment, you know, of, of like, well, I'm busy, but I don't know what to have you do. That took me a long time to get over that. And I guess I still struggle with that a little bit. Like, now that I think about it, maybe that's just a me thing. No, John. No, I know, but
00:29:48
Speaker
the delegation of tasks and the wanting to keep stuff to yourself. Like I'm saying, I still struggle with that, what, three, four years later, um, thinking to myself, well, I'm busy, but I don't know what to have you do. And it, for me, it helps to list it out and to be like, well, actually you can do that and that, and that, and that, um, as opposed to just trying to randomly pull things off the top of my head when I'm elsewhere. Yeah. Good stuff.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yep. That was excellent. Deep. I'll tell my brief story, and then I want to hear about Kern.
Manufacturing Tours and Documentation
00:30:26
Speaker
I'm actually in Charlotte. I saw the YG1 facility yesterday, where they've got a number of grinding machines, but it's also, well, they had, I don't know, maybe, I'm going to guess 30 or 40, which is nothing compared to the like 6,000 they have in Korea.
00:30:47
Speaker
I like their attitude of we're hungry and they've got a good product. It's a people thing. I felt like what I've heard from them and seen from them is awesome.
00:31:02
Speaker
So just poke my head in there to say hi and see that place. And then today I'm going to tour and film at Onsrud. I always used to say Onsrud, but I believe it's Onsrud, O-N-S-R-U-D. So they are... They make end mills too, right? Cutting tools, but I think their big claim is that they make a significant portion of
00:31:29
Speaker
anything that's wood, there's a chance it was made out of one of their machines or composites as well. But you have furniture, guitars, casework stuff. They have these huge multi-axis machines that are gantries or sometimes multiple head machines. I don't even know what I'm totally getting into, but it's a
00:31:48
Speaker
pretty cool story, family owned business, vertically integrated, a huge facility. While the woodworking element of it is not so much interesting to me, the machine tool element and the growth and the ... I think they got their start as really as a spindle company and the cutting tools. They do do machines that will cut aluminum and lots of composites and so forth. I'm excited to see it.
00:32:12
Speaker
That's awesome. Fun fact, googling on screwed. The first ad result is Sandvik. That's funny.
00:32:21
Speaker
And the second one is on screen. That's cool. Well, awesome. Yeah. And then tomorrow, since I'm down here, I thought, what else can I do in Charlotte? And so I emailed my HFO guy, and I was like, hey, can you put me in touch with whoever runs the Haas machine shop for NASCAR, which I actually used to love F1. I don't really, never really been a NASCAR person. But the machining side of it, I could definitely get behind. So I'm actually going to go tour and I think film at their engine shop tomorrow.
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah. Should be, should
Learning Experiences in Machining
00:32:54
Speaker
be pretty cool. They're in, I think Daytona is like this weekend. So it's either going to be super awesome because they're all like hustling to make parts or it's going to be really, really bad because they're either too busy for me to be there or they've already all left. So we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. That's a cool experience. Good. So how's the current training?
00:33:18
Speaker
Excellent. So my brain has been turned to mush. So Thomas came in from Kern, Germany on Saturday. I picked him up at the airport. We spent Saturday evenings working on the Kern. We spent most of Sunday working on the Kern.
00:33:35
Speaker
all of Monday. Today is now Tuesday. I had three days over the weekend of just blasted with information. It was amazing and fun. A lot of how to operate the machine, Heidenhein is amazing.
00:33:56
Speaker
The Heidenhein control, man, I was such a fanic fanboy before, but Heidenhein is just insane. This is one of my top five moments in our podcast history. It just, it makes sense. And I feel like I'm really good at it now after just like a week of playing with this machine.
00:34:20
Speaker
So a lot of the training has been, he's very good about making me repeat things. He's like, OK, here's the calibration procedure to calibrate the laser, calibrate the touch probe, both in the ring gauge and for length. Do a test cut, calibrate the touch probe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Do the kinematics. And I wrote down a list. It's like a 25-point checklist. And he made me do that two times.
00:34:49
Speaker
And it's good because repeating is very important. That's how you learn. And I have to remember that when teaching other people, even if it's kind of rudimentary, you know, like low to call it in a tool holder, you know, if somebody's never done it before, well, show me three times. It's no big deal. Nobody's going to say no.
00:35:08
Speaker
and then you really get the hang of it. So a lot of it was either Kern specific stuff, a lot of it was Heidenhein specific stuff, and then
00:35:22
Speaker
yesterday we started to get into like five axis specific stuff and specifically how to probe at V90 like with the table tilted to the side and how to probe and what that actually does and I'm like wait so if I'm probing an X it writes the value to Z and it does what?
00:35:44
Speaker
And I was stuck for like 20 minutes. I just couldn't understand the words that were coming out of his mouth. And he's like, he's like, okay, I'll show you like, let's, let's get a part. Let's hold it. Let's visualize it. And let's do this. And it finally started to make sense. And then everything, the whole world started to come together. And I was like, wait, oh my goodness, this is amazing. Yeah, that happened to us with the Z height wrong.
00:36:07
Speaker
the part or something and then when you tip it over Z effectively becomes your X because that's the distance off the top of the part. Yeah, so that It makes sense in that explanation. It doesn't make it's still very confusing when you're trying to look at screen values or Measure the part when it's off the machine. You're like wait, what why is this wrong? Yeah, and
00:36:33
Speaker
I mean, 5-axis is just so different than 3-axis in many ways because it just adds such a level of complexity until it makes sense. And then you're like, oh yeah, I got it. It's like Swiss machining. You're just staring at a blank wall until the words start to show up and then you understand what's going on. Can I ask you a question?
00:36:57
Speaker
When you're probing, I don't know the Heidenhein terminology, but when you're probing at B90, do you have to go in and actually turn off what I would call dynamic work planes or whatever, G80, 68.2, or whatever? Or does Heidenhein just do it, doesn't care, knows what to do?
00:37:14
Speaker
Hide 9, you have to enter a mode, and I believe it's G-code based, where it tilts everything. So you can't just type B90 and then probe something. You have to enter this cycle.
00:37:31
Speaker
that shifts everything to the side. And then it tells the probe. So if I probe in X, whatever, it writes to the Z automatically because it knows what's going on. And yeah, so Thomas left last night.
00:37:49
Speaker
flew to Boston real quick to install an aroa pallet changer. And then he's coming back on Thursday. And then he's going to spend he's going to spend like six hours with us Thursday and then
00:38:03
Speaker
jump back into the airport and go back to Germany. So I've got two days, Wednesday, what is it? Tuesday and Wednesday, today, tomorrow, on my own with the current and I'm comfortable, I can make stuff. And then he's going to come back on Thursday. And after I've made stuff, we're going to go deeper into the five axis tilted probing and more of that stuff and anything we haven't covered yet. And then
00:38:28
Speaker
Are you going to be using a lot of tilted probing to do individual pallet offsets on knife tombstones? Yeah, it finally occurred to me like everything is going to be tilted probing because my tombstones, 98% of it is going to be at B90, it's going to be tilted. So I'm like, oh geez, I'm going to have to live in this mode. Are you doing squared tombstones or Christmas trees style?
00:38:53
Speaker
Okay. Squared. You get more surface area out of a Christmas tree. So just be only if your parts fit. Okay. So having four square sides and I only need four different areas, it works perfectly for what I need. And there's actually some wasted space on my tombstone just because of the nature of I don't need that many parts. Was that the 4140 you were cutting in the mori?
00:39:19
Speaker
That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I've been hogging, hogging 41 40, um, past couple of days and I'm not used to it. And I'm like, I feel bad for the Maury. I'm like, are you okay? Like this is really, this is heavy cutting for you. She's like, finally someone's feeding me, uh, four years of whisper cuts in titanium. And now you're letting me finally stretch my legs.
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I was using a 2-inch face mill to face down the 4140 a lot.
Troubleshooting and Lean Manufacturing
00:39:55
Speaker
I could tell the inserts were wearing out a little bit and I hadn't checked them in a little while. Then it was giving more sparks and I'm like, yeah, they're probably starting to lose. Then it quickly got louder and spindle load went from about 50%.
00:40:08
Speaker
to 100% over the course of a minute or something. And then it got a little bit louder, so I stopped it. I stopped it. And it had tilted the workpiece. It had lifted the part out of the vise and dug into it more. And the inserts were toast. And no real damage. I was even able to face down the rest of it and be fine. But I was like, oh, darn. This is some heavy cutting I really got to watch for. Those inserts are toast. Now you really need clamping pressure.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And then I think I broke my Torx tool trying to get those inserts out of the face mill. So I was like, ah, screw this. So I have a two round insert and like a button cutter with the carbide inserts that go in the round. Not the old. From Kyocera.
00:41:03
Speaker
OK, that's funny. No, but same thing. Same size and everything. Same inserts almost. But the Kia Sarah version, like a nice one. And so I used that to face down the rest of it. And it took longer, but made a beautiful curled round chip. And spindle load was 50% with the face mill. And it was like 11% with this tool. And left a great finish. And it just took longer because you can't push it as hard.
00:41:31
Speaker
That's actually a really good example of what we were trying to talk about earlier where the absence of stress and bad and frustration is not the same as the existence of happiness or pleasure or whatever. I am proud of
00:41:48
Speaker
the plane, it very much is my personality of like, okay, on the new lathe cart, we have from a lean Kanban, whatever term you want to use, we've got the tools we need there, like we've got the individual hex wrenches, and we've got the hammer, and I've got the ruler, and then we've got, we just, so for $10, bought another bottle of the of the Never-Seez type stuff, I've got the toothpicks right there, and a shallower bin,
00:42:09
Speaker
So, that way when you swap out inserts, if you want to use a tiny amount of Never-Seize, the Never-Seize is there, the toothpick is there, the trash can is there to get rid of it, the hand towel to wipe your hands off when you're done.
00:42:23
Speaker
So when you don't have all that stuff, I find that you go to this part place where you're like, man, I wish we had this nailed down. I like seeing shops or places where it's all organized and it just exists because it feels better and it looks like somebody want to have it. But when you have it, it's just status quo. That makes sense.
00:42:44
Speaker
Right. You just get so used to the normal. Once you make a process easy, you don't even think about it anymore. And it's just like it was challenging, but you forget that. And sometimes I step back and I was like, man, I kind of remember doing this like three years ago, and it was a real pain in the butt.
00:43:00
Speaker
And now I don't even think about it because it takes like 30 seconds. And those are the fun times when I get to step back and be like, Oh, yeah, like we actually have come a far, far away. And now this thing is no big deal. And we're so used to it. Well, but I think
00:43:15
Speaker
A little differently, maybe this is why I don't really like Paul Akers, the lean guy, is because it comes off to me as fake. Having that stuff in place, being able to change out the rollers on their printing machine, being able to do that in three minutes and 45 minutes, all of a sudden is the equivalent of pure actual physical pleasure.
00:43:40
Speaker
No, it doesn't actually, it doesn't come anywhere close to feeling that good. It's kind of like, okay, great, the toothpicks are here, the never sees us there, that's good, but I don't get off on that.
00:43:54
Speaker
But I think the difference is you have your own version of that, whether it's nailing a perfect part that you just made on the five-axis machine, and you do that fist bump in the air, and you're like, this is the greatest thing ever. To him, that's running a lean shop. So his level of excitement and passion and
00:44:16
Speaker
It's a stupid grin on his face. You know, you and I have it for our own things. But for him, it's that. So, you know, I, I respect him for what he does. And I like seeing his passion and excitement, even if it's for something that I'm not nearly as passionate and excited about. But it's still, it's addictive, you know? Watching that.
00:44:38
Speaker
It was fair and we were talking about making happiness on a five axis doing that Tom Lipton toothpick challenge. I was going to just call it good without using the super glue. I don't know if you watch the hot glue. We machine that toothpick out of Delrin and I was like, no, I know there's a better way to do some like temporary fixturing at the end without having to go make a full blown fixture or transfer it into a collet or a five C block.
00:45:05
Speaker
And that sounds like, no, we can totally do this with hot glue. And because all you need to do is hold on to it for the tiniest low pressure, low tool pressure type of cut. And it was actually awesome. I was like, I know where we have our good hot glue gun. It's right there. I've got the plugs to plug it in. Like, you know, we keep 110 outlets near the machines, which is super handy. And then I wanted the hot glue at a certain angle. Instead of having to build up a dam, I just rotated the table to like B40, which gave it the right level of
00:45:35
Speaker
And it was pretty fun. Oh, that's awesome. You always think about that
Creative Projects in Machining
00:45:41
Speaker
toothpick challenge. I'm like, should I do that on the Swiss? I think I could pull it off. Well, so it's using a 5-axis. Well, sort of. Yeah, I know. I actually did it like a Swiss with a rotary toolpath that just pushed along the thing. Yeah. Let's do it. Absolutely. Well, sorry. I'm supposed to not encourage these things.
00:46:01
Speaker
That's that's the stupid thing. It's like, oh, it's a dumb challenge. It's going to take me hours away from, you know, critical work. Yeah. But it'd be fun. Sweet. Well, I'm off to tour and answer answered. You have to find seeing that flow tool. So you got flow working. Did you create a surface infusion?
00:46:28
Speaker
Nope. It's just extruded. Okay. So I didn't create it. Do you mind emailing me that user file? I want to see if I can show you where it gets not fun because I wish flow worked every time because then it would be between it and steep and shallow. It'd be amazing. And if you don't mind, I'd like to look at that CAD model.
00:46:53
Speaker
Yeah, it worked, but the finish was not pretty. It fastened a lot. Oh, interesting. And it was actually weird, because I did a couple roughing ops, and the machine was smooth. And then I start going into the flow toolpath, and it was smooth, and then it started to get really jerky. And I'm like, what the heck? What just changed? And then I'd reset and start it again, and it was fine. And I don't know, something's going on. But the finish was not current, like, Marv finish. But I was like, this is just settings.
00:47:22
Speaker
I know. That's what I love. At some point, we will either own or run a Heidenhine a lot, because it's like hearing about how Heidenhine wants huge amounts of point distribution. You could even use complete to take that flow output path and add interpolated point distribution, which it actually may not fix the fastening, but it would be curious to see if it could fix it, actually. Anyway. Yeah, interesting. I'll see you next week. Anyway. Take care. Have fun.