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Business of Machining - Episode 100
282 Plays7 years ago
Happy 2019! The guys elaborate on the first time they met in person at the 2015 Tormach Open House. Did Grimsmo inadvertently set a precedent when he purchased his first vertical machining center before having a shop to fit it?
The guys get caught up in festivities, family, and friends. This time of year reminds us to cherish time with our loved ones, to reflect, and to ring in the new year with a zest for life.
Tom Lipton's sobering words hit home and leave Grimsmo with goosebumps. Check out the post HERE
IS THIS REAL LIFE? The Saunders family takes off to D.C. for an impromptu vacation. While visiting museums, he finds himself in awe!
Preventative Maintenance Talks Be a good machinist by taking care of your machines!
10 Things YOU Can Improve for 2019
Spooky Sounds and Stethoscopes The VF2 is making a weird noise, so it's time to get to the bottom of it. Could it be a rotary union coupler issue?
Knife Parts Stocked? YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!
Sayonara, Kyocera Inserts? Previously, the SAGA clips decimated insert after insert BUT WHY!? Angelo and Grimsmo pour through the code to find the place where old habits die hard. They are pumped to see if adjusting the SFM will solve the problem! Stay tuned for an update!
Find out which machine Grimsmo's got his eye AND a quote on!
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Transcript
Introduction and Milestones
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the business of machining episode 100. My name is John Grimsmough. My name is John Saunders. Good morning, buddy. Good morning. Welcome to 2019. Welcome to 2019. Have we really done this on audio a hundred times, like on recording? That's insane. And more before that, because we just, it wasn't a podcast back then. Right. I still, this still feels like my new thing. Yeah.
00:00:29
Speaker
Right. Like the bottom. That little side project that's like, it's been easily two years. Right. I've also lost the ability I found to remember what year things were like. Did I move into the shop in 15 or 16 or seven? Like things like that. When did we buy that machine? I don't know what year it was, which is strange.
00:00:49
Speaker
Yeah, I can kind of put those big milestones as a number like moved in 2015. You got the Maury got the later than 2016, but all the little stuff. It's like, I don't know what year it's together. What year this may be the little stuff. What year did you and I first finally meet at the Tormach event? 15 summer of 15. Okay. Cause I just got in the shop, but I hadn't gotten the Maury yet. Right. That's right. This was like huge milestone for me. And then we met. Right.
00:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, in Wisconsin. Yes. We actually, we were like, you know, I've known of you for years. We never really talked before then. Yeah. And then Tormach invited us to the event and we're like,
00:01:31
Speaker
You just want to share a hotel room and save a few bucks. Okay, let's do that. So we bunk together and it was awesome. Actually, I mean, it was funny cause again,
Personal Reflections and Relationships
00:01:39
Speaker
I knew you, but I didn't know you and you were sitting in the bed closer to, yes, we had separate beds, said the bed closer to the window and you had this like Manila folder or something of all this paperwork and you kind of sheepishly looked over and you're like, can I tell you something? And I'm like, well, yeah, this is going to get awkward. And you're like, I bought it. I bought a vertical machining center.
00:02:00
Speaker
I was like, what? Because I didn't even at this time know it was on your radar or no more about it. And you didn't you were still in your because you bought the machine before you had a shop, right? Yes, we were looking hard for a shop to fit the machine, which means you should continue that precedent and buy a Swiss Swiss or a five axis or a man something before you and then find the show. Yeah. It's hilarious. That feels like ages ago, John. It does.
00:02:30
Speaker
I mean, it's been three plus years, but man, so much has happened. Yeah. My wife and I just hit that kind of silly threshold where we've now lived in Ohio longer than we lived in our last place in New York.
00:02:43
Speaker
which feels weird. Yeah. Yeah. I'm waiting for the big one. I've got just over a year left to where I have known my, my wife for longer than I've not known her. Right. And you're like overall life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So now we've been together for 17 years and I met her when I was 18. So I'm like, I feel like that's going to be like, that's going to be cool.
00:03:05
Speaker
Right, it's that element makes it a little bit weird how similar we are. Yeah. Yeah, I met Yvonne in 2001. Yeah, I met her in 2002. Yeah, crazy. That's awesome. Yeah, how was your Christmas or whatever, New Year's time off, time not off? Amazing, just amazing. Meg said to me kind of with a funny grin, she's like, I haven't seen you this much in years.
00:03:34
Speaker
Like I love it, but it's, wow, you're so around. In a good way. In a great way, of course. Played a lot with the kids. We got a Nintendo Switch for them. So we've been playing Mario Kart like crazy and spent some time. We spent New Year's Eve at a friend's house. Nice.
00:03:55
Speaker
He's a physics teacher at a high school and like one of my favorite people and um, super duper smart guy. And it, it takes us a long time to like get into a really good conversation. So we actually celebrated like a UK, um, New Year's Eve at 7 PM so that the kids could enjoy it. And, and you know, we had it on the TV and, um, did the, yeah, you know, put the hats on and did the blowers and stuff and everybody was all excited. And then.
00:04:24
Speaker
everyone stayed up till past one o'clock. The kids included? Yeah. No way. Yeah. Oh, you're crazy. And, uh, just, just happenstance. And then we started getting talking probably around 10 o'clock, like really good. Like, what am I going to do with my life for them? And, um, it just got really, really good and deep. And we talked about
Living Without Regrets
00:04:46
Speaker
a lot of stuff and, um,
00:04:48
Speaker
It was really nice. And then, you know, it starts getting later and later and we're like, I think we're going to have to go. Right. Yeah. That's awesome. That was wonderful. Those are fun conversations or fun where they just comes about. Yeah. You know, Meg and I felt like we could help and we've, we've been talking about this kind of stuff for years with them. And you know, one of them is not happy with their current career. And, uh, you know, it's like, well, what, what can you do? Like you have so much ability inside of you.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it was it was good. Oh, actually funny. You mentioned that. You know who Tom Lipton is? Ox, ox tool. I don't know him well, but he of course I know he's great. And and this his post really threw me because it's not in his style of you know, he normally kind of stays on topic and he posted a picture maybe a week ago walking through a cemetery. I think I screenshot it. I'm literally going to print it out.
00:05:47
Speaker
both because I really look up to Tom. I mean, he wouldn't know that, but I really look up to Tom. And this was just so, you know, kind of one of the things when he says this, it carries more weight, partly because he's been through, you know, he's just a seasoned gentleman. And it was a picture of him in a cemetery. Actually, hold on one second, John, I'm going to pull this up because it's better to read this.
00:06:11
Speaker
he clearly put a little bit of time into writing this, which also makes me appreciate that it wasn't just a social media verbal diarrhea, but rather something that I think really resonates. So it's a picture of- So OX tools on Instagram. In a cemetery and it reads, a good walk in a cemetery helps me put the next year into perspective. This place is full of nice folks with great intentions that ran out of time.
00:06:40
Speaker
Don't put off what you can do today. Spend quality time with loved ones, friends, and machines. Follow your curious and creative nose, and don't spend a single second on people that waste your time and suck out your life force. Then a bunch of hashtags. But I thought it was just great because it kind of deals with something I think you and I have always...
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, exactly naysayers and so forth, but it's not even about that anymore. I don't even care about them. I care about making sure what I do today and this month and this year is stuff that you don't regret when it's all over. Yeah. I still got goosebumps from hearing that. It's just so important that we stay
00:07:28
Speaker
on track and not be bogged down by time wasters, by useless people and things.
00:07:39
Speaker
Well, just tackle the, I mean, like it comes, but for me, when I think about you, it's like, Hey, you've got to get that pen brought to market, right? You've got to get this system. I want to walk into Grimsman knives when I visit this summer or this fall or whenever and say, okay, so we do rasks over here. We do Norseman here. And over on the right, we do all of our pens and turning. And then we have a little skunk works R and D room, uh, where I can go and not be like.
00:08:05
Speaker
isn't that what we need to see? You've got to be financially responsible to get that there, but you're there. It's not a fictitious, fairy land, multi years away place. Sure. You're absolutely right.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's
Work-Life Balance and Efficiency
00:08:27
Speaker
been super nice over the holidays because I thought I would work. I've got so much work, dozens of hours of computer work that I could easily do at any time, but I kind of didn't. I thought a lot, talked with Meg a lot, and I don't feel guilty whatsoever about not getting this computer work done.
00:08:47
Speaker
It was so nice. Like I don't, I don't take vacations and I should. I want to this year. It's one of the things I want to change. Spend more time with the family, but man, it was good to get away. What kind of computer work?
00:09:01
Speaker
whether it's, you know, all the emails that I want to send or planning new products or work on the saga pen, or I've got a bunch of kind of website programming things that I need to tackle for the makers choice list and lots, lots and lots of stuff.
00:09:18
Speaker
which I can do anytime, anywhere. So I'm like, oh yeah, Christmas. I'll have tons of time at the kitchen table with my laptop. But that's fine, I didn't. I just ate lots of chocolate and played with the kids. That is okay. But why aren't Sky or Aaron, or those are the two that come to mind, tackling, leading these and then reaching out to you when they get stuck or have a question? Yeah, I'm easing Aaron into the maker's choice.
00:09:46
Speaker
tweaks that need to be made. And you're right, I should, I need to pass that on because I can't hold on to everything. It's just like when you know how to do it and you're the only one that knows how to do it and it's kind of complicated, then it's like just easier to do it. That's not a scalable solution. It's not as complicated as you think it is. Seriously. Yeah, it's probably not.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yep. It's funny. There's things we ease people into like Josh is a newer intern here and he's, you know, he'll run the machines a little, but it's usually not, you know, we'll have set up the tools or we'll have loaded the cam the part. So he's kind of just easing into it. And that happens over time. And there's never like a.
00:10:20
Speaker
binary date where you graduate and are allowed to do things on your own. It just happens over time. But most of the other stuff, like seriously, especially when it comes to the operational stuff is very much cold turkey, throw them in, drink out of a fire hose, just run with it and then ask when you have help.
00:10:40
Speaker
It's the exact opposite of, well, let me, and I'm not, I know you're not a condescending or a mansplaining type person, but the whole like, this is really complicated, blah, blah, blah. Like I had Alex working on our Shopify, which has some like custom code and templates and things. And I didn't, I mean, I gave him a 30 second rundown video or something of it. And then before I know it, he's doing things better than I, like great done, right?
00:11:07
Speaker
What I thought was complicated, I have quickly been usurped on, which is phenomenal. Yeah. Love it. So do that. Free up your time. This is my personal mission. Oh, you're right. Yep. Love it.
00:11:23
Speaker
Love it. So how was your break? Also great. Having a four-year-old with Christmas is just wonderful. I mean, Santa and the magic of it. And look, the materialism of the presents for better or worse. They absolutely love the idea of opening gifts and toys and excitement. It was great.
00:11:43
Speaker
And then we had Yvonne had some time off. The kids don't have school. So we hopped in the car and drove down to Washington DC for kind of an impromptu three, four day vacation. And it was like spectacular. We haven't really done like a low key thing like that. Like just kind of impromptu, you know, got a, got a hotel and just otherwise winged it. And
00:12:07
Speaker
The monument weather was mediocre but the monuments walking around just restaurants hanging out and then holy cow the Smithsonian's I've been to some of them I've been to once before maybe but like air and space it's just John it's like
00:12:24
Speaker
you're walking like, oh, there's a Apollo spacesuit. And here's the command module from this. And here's a lunar module. And here's the first instance titanium was used in an airplane. And here's a blurb on Inconel and why it's an interesting material. And it's just you kind of hit yourself because you realize this is
00:12:43
Speaker
it like this is not like you know there's there's John Glenn's friendship seven mercury capsule like that's it that's the actual one that he orbited the earth in right there like right in front of me no one else is around me right now this is crazy so I was I don't say inspiring because I don't make it cheesy but it was rejuvenating yeah okay yeah I think I went when I was a kid I know we did a
00:13:10
Speaker
family thing, yeah, to DC. And I think we went to the Smithsonian, but I was like 12. Right. Yeah, I'd love to go back. So everything that's on the mall right there in like downtown DC or whatever you would call that, right there in the city is great. But there's a remote air and space museum near Dulles Airport that I'd heard about before.
00:13:37
Speaker
Always knew I wanted to go, never knew how I would go because you kind of need a car to get there. I guess you could take a taxi. It's like 20 miles. But anyways, if anybody ever is in DC and has any chance to do this, it is, you know, top two or three museum experiences I've ever done in my life. I mean, you walk in this place and you are staring at an SR-71 Blackboard and directly behind it is an actual, the actual space shuttle Discovery.
00:14:07
Speaker
They had the Enola Gay there, which was the B-29 that participated in the ending of the World War II via the bombing of Hiroshima. And so there's just from a historical standpoint, from technology, from an airplane, weapons, building, construction, just, oh my gosh, it's just overload. That's awesome. That's good. So it was fun. I had a good time.
00:14:33
Speaker
Came back and then yesterday we actually started what
Machine Maintenance and Troubleshooting
00:14:36
Speaker
something has been on my to-do list, which was some proactive or preventative maintenance. So we, sounds simple, but we just took the weight covers off the two Haas machines and checked to see how much chips were getting in or do gaskets or seals look bad on just the accordion covers, sheet metal stuff. We were a little bit spooked that we weren't getting grease on our VF2 Y-axis rails.
00:15:03
Speaker
And we don't know what we're talking about here, but we're just observing the grease was very different on the X and on the Z, so that we just disassembled one of the fittings, ran the cycle. The Haas page walks you through this, which shout out to Haas Awesome that they give us actual troubleshooting techniques on this. And sure enough, they were getting grease to the truck. So I figure, OK, I think we're fine.
00:15:28
Speaker
And I thought, okay, that makes me feel better because eventually we probably will have a clogged grease line or something problematic. So it actually felt good to go through that process when we think the machine's a bit healthier or in a current state so that we can, again, hopefully be better at that going forward. So were there a lot of chips packed underneath the way covers?
00:15:51
Speaker
No, but interestingly, the VF2 did have more than the VM3. And that's interesting because the VM3 is both older and has been run a lot more in just in terms of hours. So I don't know what the takeaway is there. I don't think any of it was problematic though.
00:16:11
Speaker
And they're both running, you know, no complaints. I got to look, Haas has this PDF that I got from my HFO about like what you should do for maintenance. The only thing we didn't really do, we should do is grease the tool changer, but then also there is a tool changer alignment procedure you're supposed to go through.
00:16:28
Speaker
Um, and I really don't think it's hard to tackle. I've always found with maintenance stuff, it's a lot harder to do with the first time. If you figure it out or somebody shows you, it's usually not too bad. Um, second time. So yeah, balancing that. I mean, you could even go ahead, even kind of do a little maintenance video on this is the first time we're aligning the tool changer. Right.
00:16:55
Speaker
you know, have, have Julie added together real short. So it looks easy next time. And then you have physical video, physical proof for like in two years when Alex has to do it himself. Right. It's like, it's like the, it's like this podcast, like it's actually in for internal use, but we just decided to share it. Um, yeah, I think that's a good idea. Well, maybe we'll get through the tool changer thing. Um,
00:17:21
Speaker
I feel like I want to be careful because we're not, you know, we're not experts on Haas maintenance. I don't want somebody to think that we misled them. And every machine is probably a little bit different, but it's still great to see other people actually should just look that up. Maybe there's already. I don't think I've seen one on the official. No, I have seen one on the Haas video channel, YouTube channel on the grease stuff. I don't know if I've seen one and actually adjust. I think what you've got to adjust is
00:17:50
Speaker
I think the only thing at least that I could easily adjust is that you can control the Z height at which it does the tool change in terms of actually aligning the tool changer, which is done. I don't know if I would do that. I would probably call on a tech. Have you had, have you actually had warranty or non-warranty service work done on either of your machines?
00:18:16
Speaker
Um, two things happened on the Maury. One was a, not a recall, but something like that where basically DMG Maury emailed me and said, uh, Oh, there's some sort of maintenance warranty, um, recall thing that I don't know. Like we forgot to grease the tool changer rollers or something like that. So.
00:18:41
Speaker
Basically the two texts came out no cost to me and they took the tool changer window off and just got in there and greased every single roller and then left and cleaned the window for me. And it was kind of nice. That was about a year ago. Um, so I was like, okay, thank you very much. Um, and then the other thing was the door interlock switch, maybe three months ago decided to die and, uh, we could not run the mill while that was dead. Um,
00:19:11
Speaker
So, you know, we were down for probably four or five days waiting for the replacement to come in. Other than that, nothing, like zero problem. That's awesome. That's great. On Friday, we had, I was still in D.C., Jared called me and our VF2 had a strange noise when the spindle was
00:19:35
Speaker
accelerating, ramping up. He didn't know what it was, but he rightfully thought maybe it was the worst case scenario. I just said, okay, well, shut the machine down and I'll take a look this weekend when I'm back.
00:19:49
Speaker
I don't know what the problem is. I don't want to speculate too much, or at least try to conclude anything, but we just tried to get smart about it. So we borrowed a stethoscope and have listened to the bearings on the spindle. So what I was told, you're best off rotating it by hand, kind of back and forth and listening to hear if any
00:20:17
Speaker
directional moves or changes of direction could have any noise or grinding or any feeling, the most subtle feeling even. But when you're doing it by hand, and that sounded no noise. And then we ran it at like 10, 25, 50, 100 and 499 RPMs, again, with the stethoscope up against the spindle housing. And it sounds perfect. Like I don't hear anything wrong, which is good news. But
00:20:44
Speaker
And I haven't really gotten that noise to be replicated. But the only thing I can think of, and again, with some help from some folks on social try to just brainstorm is that perhaps we've got a problem with either the bearings or a seal or something in the
00:21:02
Speaker
rotary union coupler, if that's the correct term, which is what lets the through spindle coolant work through a spindle. Um, so I've, I've emailed my hospital, of course, terrible time to get responses over a holiday weekend, but, um, yeah, I, um, emailed them. We'll see what they say again. It works fine now. I can't get that noise to be replicated. So I'm hesitant to not run the machine for more days. If, if.
00:21:31
Speaker
It seems okay, but we'll see. Have you made parts since that noise or you're just kind of playing with it still?
00:21:42
Speaker
No, we haven't because well, what is today? Today's Wednesday, but Monday or yesterday was a holiday and about the bad timing of the year. I'm not necessarily against doing it today or tomorrow, but I want to hopefully hear back from them. We had the spindle housing off. I was trying to look to see if it looked like coolant was leaking out of that seal. And there's a little bit of
00:22:07
Speaker
What do you call it? Like when the coolant turns back into the concentrate, like de-emulsification or something. Yeah, right. There's a little bit of that, but that's pretty normal. Um, I think, I mean, that happens on the roof of the machine as well. Um, not nothing that looks like you're pouring, you know, ounces, let alone cups or gallons of cooling out. Hmm. Well, best of luck figuring that out. I mean, it's always sad to hear a,
00:22:37
Speaker
A spindle might be on its way out, but then might be fine, but then it's like such an unknown.
00:22:42
Speaker
Well, and that's what's right. It's the uncertainty that almost makes it worse. And so I just want to get reasonably better. Like I went on Amazon. Fun fact, you can buy stethoscopes for like $19. So I don't have to borrow one. So I now own a stethoscope. I thought you were going to say you could buy a spindle on Amazon. Note to Jeff Bezos. Anytime you want to stock spindles, especially Matt Suras, I think we'd all appreciate that.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yep. That'd be hilarious. One day, baby. So apparently, like on Tormox, you can swap out the spindles. And I think that's just because they're relatively low RPM. But on VMCs, what do you have to do? After you install the spindle, you still have to do some balancing on it, I guess.
00:23:31
Speaker
What are you adjusting? I don't know. There definitely is more to it and it's expensive equipment and it's skilled labor, but I don't know what you would be, like how are you balancing it? Is there a, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I figured they should be dynamically balanced at the factory, but then I wonder if installed makes it different for whatever reason.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yeah, I know they're like on our machines, their cartridge spindle. So it actually is relatively quick to swap it out. But then once the new one is in, there is more war work to do. It's definitely something you have to have somebody qualified to do.
00:24:09
Speaker
But no, it seems great. I was initially spooked and I would have been pretty ticked if it has about 600 cycle start hours on it. It's a year and a half old. I would have been pretty upset if the spindle had gone out on it. But I also would have been perplexed because no machine tool company that has a good brand overall is in the business of making spindles that last a year and a half under normal use. Just there aren't.
00:24:37
Speaker
There's bad luck, but we haven't done anything. We literally have never crashed that machine. There's been nothing that would have shortened the spindle life as far as we know. It's not the one with ceramic bearings, is it? I can't answer that. I have no idea. Because I know some of the Haas, I think the higher speed spindles, maybe in the
00:24:59
Speaker
drill mill or something like that, apparently have ceramic bearings, which are just
Tooling and Performance Optimization
00:25:05
Speaker
more delicate to like cleanliness and vibration and things like that. Okay. Yeah, this is only the 12K spindle. It's the stock VF2SS spindle.
00:25:16
Speaker
I wouldn't consider that high speed. If it has failed, I at least want to know what we did. Was it just a bad spindle or a bad bearing, and it just got unlucky? Or you wouldn't think it could still last for 600 hours, though, or however many of the spindles put on 500 hours. Yeah, totally. But you at least want to know what went down. So we'll see.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yep. How many hours is it grease pack or is it? You're going to ask that like oil flowing through the bearings. There is a spindle oil reservoir and it does a, there's a test where you can go into current commands, I think, or diagnostics and you hit the F3 or something and it will
00:26:06
Speaker
Tell you to watch and within 30 seconds. It should drop a single drop of I believe spindle oil which I then think it's pulled up into the spindle and then consumed I don't think it's recycled or closed loop or anything. Yeah, so that would tell me it's a Oil spindle, but I'm not
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like that's what my mori is. There's a reservoir in the back. You know, you fill it once a year, like it never really comes through that stuff. And then out the spindle OD, the outside diameter, there's like a gentle airflow going through it with oil moisture. Oh. So it's like a positive pressure bearing environment. I love that we've brought up positive pressure in two weeks in a row now.
00:26:51
Speaker
Um, I don't think ours has any air going to the spindle. In fact, I'm pretty sure that like, I can feel it coming out. That's funny because the guy in town, uh, Paul DeBolt has that. And I, I thought his was an actual air bearing spindle, which is also still really cool. Um, but maybe, Hmm. So if you put your hand underneath the spindle, like where a tool would go, you feel some air flow.
00:27:23
Speaker
Yep. Not through the center, but through the outside. Yeah. We don't, we don't have that. Yeah. There's like this, I don't know, 20,000 gap around the outside, maybe even smaller, um, probably smaller that, uh, just always reads air a little bit. And that's only when the spindle's turning. You know, that's all the time when the machine. Interesting. So your machine consumes air continuously.
00:27:49
Speaker
Okay. Yep. Sure. Sure. Yeah. No, ours, ours does not. I think the only thing you need air for is the tool changer. And even that, I'm not even sure what the tool changer uses to servo driven tool change or mechanical. So I don't know why it even needs air, but yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. We shall see. I'll keep everybody posted. I actually, um, do you know that guy? Uh, I think his name's Corey from arrow knocks, AKA bad.
00:28:16
Speaker
bad blank machinists. I don't know if I can say that on a family friendly podcast, but he had a problem with his Haas. And so I was talking to him yesterday and his ended up being a kind of a similar thing. I think where his seal leaked and it ended up actually frying his motor from liquid getting into the spindle motor. And luckily it was in warranty.
00:28:40
Speaker
But I don't think he had a continuous noise. We don't have a continuous noise. It was only twice. It happened twice. But when it was ramping up from zero, I believe they were ramping up to 12K RPM. But we've done that quite a few times. Well, best of luck in figuring that out, man. Yeah. Starting off the new year with, we'll see. We'll get through it. Yeah, no problem.
00:29:08
Speaker
I had a revelation on Friday. Okay. So Thursday, Friday last week, like between Christmas and New Year's, um, Angelo and I came in and on Thursday we made knife stuff, but on Friday we made, uh, pen parts. Awesome. So we got to actually like sit down and focus.
00:29:26
Speaker
start making saga parts. So we're working on this one part called the slider, which is the little pull down sleeve that unlocks the pen. And it's always been a tricky part like for the 30 plus pens that we made. It
00:29:43
Speaker
It's got two ID dimensions that get ID board from either side. So like, I've got two ID boring bars that are teeny tiny Kiyo Sera boring bars with a tiny little triangle insert that I'm showing you in the video. It's like, I don't know, a quarter inch total diameter.
00:30:01
Speaker
Um, tiny little things. And, and we keep blowing inserts, like just the tip of the insert disappears after three parts or something like that. And I think when we made the initial round of pens, we just blasted through it and just kept replacing inserts in order to make parts, not the right solution. So we're playing with this on Friday. That was not the wrong solution. Sometimes you just got to get through it and then deal with it later.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But I didn't even know at the time, I don't know, we were rushed back in May. So we were like, we just did it. It's fine. So then on Friday, we're making tests and parts, and Angelo gets it dialed in. And then, OK, one part, two part, three part is way out. So we're like, what's going on? So we take the insert out, look at it under the microscope. The tip is just missing. It's just gone. And I'm like, man, something's wrong. I just don't get it. So then over the weekend, I was able to pour through the code
00:30:59
Speaker
And, and be like, huh, I'm doing a fixed RPM of 3000. That's probably not good. Cause this is like a bad habit from like my tormac days. I'm like, run everything at 3000 RPM. It's way too slow, right? For the diameter. No, it's too fast. Yeah. So that turns out to be an SFM of about two 90, 290, which, yeah, which titanium usually wants like one for, okay.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I eventually found in the Kyocer catalog, the speeds and feeds recommended for this boring bar in titanium. It's a very small, delicate little insert and they want an SFM of like 40. What?
00:31:42
Speaker
Yeah, like crazy low. Holy cow. Is it, it's a coded insert? It's a coded insert. Um, I get, I don't, it, it seems low, but that is clearly what the catalog recommends. And then I was talking with, um, Christian who's got, you know, a few Swiss leads and he said, yeah, those, those micro tools just change everything. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:03
Speaker
the world gets a lot slower when you're chasing tents and using these very delicate tools. And I was like, Oh, okay. Um, interesting. So clearly if I'm supposed to do 40 SFM and I'm doing two 80, right? And it's blowing through inserts. Duh. It's just creating far too much. And, uh, it makes so much sense. So I'm thrilled today to try 40 SFM and just see what happens. I I'm, I'm,
00:32:32
Speaker
Surprised, I would think that when it talks about small tools, I would think feed rates change, but surface footage is surface footage. Coding failures, so it's funny, we have the same type of problem, but the opposite thing, which is I think we're not going fast enough and we're not activating, you know, codings sometimes only work
00:32:56
Speaker
They're designed to work in a service footage band, right? So that if you're not getting enough heat, you're not activating the coating, and the coating can play an important part in the lubricity of the cutter and the actual, I think, I don't know if it will be the hardness or the toughness. I think it's actually the hardness, because toughness comes from the underlying mix of cemented carbide,
Strategic Planning and Goals for 2019
00:33:19
Speaker
I think. But I'm excited to actually set up some tests to run it harder and see if that actually
00:33:25
Speaker
helps, but if you're having an actual fractured tip come off? Yeah, so it's a W insert, so it's almost a triangle. And the tip, I can send you a picture eventually, but the tip is not perpendicular to the triangle, but it's like just 30 degrees, 45 degrees off kilter from where perpendicular you think would be.
00:33:52
Speaker
So like if, you know, if a triangle, you just cut the top off, it's not that it's tilted a little bit for whatever reason, like tilted forward towards the cut, but every edge looks the same and they all toast. You don't think it's a doubling up chip load from recutting chips.
00:34:09
Speaker
I don't think so. Because that's what I've seen more of when you actually snap things off. It's something like that. Because you're hitting, what does the part look like after the broken insert ran it? It still cuts all right. The finish is not as good because it's very streaky. Right. Interesting.
00:34:35
Speaker
It just cuts, you know, 5,000 smaller, 10,000 smaller. Right, right, right. Interesting. We'll keep you posted. Does QSR make different grades of inserts for that little guy? Yes. Yeah, there are a few. So I'm going to have to look into that. We're using a grade for stainless steel. There is apparently a better one that's meant for tie and high strength alloys, high temperature alloys. So we'll see. I don't know. I can look into that, but I've got, I've got four more inserts of this. We'll need more.
00:35:04
Speaker
So I should really call Kia Sarah this week and try to figure that out. Is it often that stainless? So when I think about a stainless tool, I think about a sharp cutting edge because a stainless being a material that needs to have a sharp shear. Is that also told true for titanium? Can you use the same tools on each sometimes? I think so, yeah. And ideally, I just want the one tool to do everything. Right. I mean, stainless and tie is all that we machine. Right.
00:35:34
Speaker
Hmm. That's cool. Oh, sorry. Not cool, but that's fun. Super cool. Like, no, it's amazing. Like all you gotta do is slow it down and give it the proper speeds and feeds. So you, why was it, so you were just manually in fusion had typed in 3000 RPMs instead of using service footage with CSS. Yep. That's kind of funny. I jump back and forth. Sometimes I do this. Sometimes I do that. Right.
00:35:58
Speaker
But now it kind of makes me real, reevaluate like every one of the 16 parts that we make on the lathe. And I'm like, Oh, how many are badly programmed? Like for that, most of them I'm getting away with, but this little internal boring bar, it's just a small insert has no support behind the edge. And I don't know. Um, heat, you know? Yeah, sure. Sure. That's cool. You could also, I'm trying to think. Yeah, that's so slow. That's crazy.
00:36:26
Speaker
Yeah, it is crazy slow. So maybe I'll call Kia Sarah and just talk to some expert that can explain it better to me. But either way, I feel like running 40 to 100 or something is going to be world's better than 290. And this is something that's been bugging me for six months now. So I'm like, man, why do I keep like, it's the biggest hesitation from getting pens into full production because I knew I was going to blow through inserts. Got it.
00:36:53
Speaker
So Epic way here, like I'm, I'm pumped. I want to get going. Right. That's a, that feels good. Do you have the, do you buy those from your local supplier guy? Yes. Okay. So you don't have a relationship with curious hair in terms of like a technical guy. But I, did I email? I don't know.
00:37:14
Speaker
I can email and I will email. Like who's your local, you know, Kia Sare turning guy. I want to talk to him. Yeah. That's fun. I actually get really excited about, we had a similar thing where we were breaking some drills and taps sooner than we expected. And it ends up, it was something kind of obvious like that, where as soon as you, I mean, it wasn't obvious and we're not unintelligent. Like we spent time trying to figure this out and we couldn't figure it out. And then kind of like John Grim. So you are a very smart person. And how did you not realize you're running surface footage
00:37:43
Speaker
Like wrong, flat out wrong. So it's actually super fun when you figure out. Yeah. It was, is it really that like when the, when the, when the kind of tooling rep guy calls you and he's like, what service footage are you running at? You're like 3000 RPMs. And he's like, it's not the question I asked. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah. So I had to like find some online converter to be like, okay, the diameter's this and the RPM is this. What is the surface footage? 290. Holy cow. Yeah. So you don't have our little Excel sheet we use. I go to NYC CNC. It's free. The fees and speeds thing. It has just because we do those conversions all the time. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll play with that. Sweet. Yeah. So what's going on today? Okay. Good.
00:38:33
Speaker
Well, yesterday I had our good friend Amish come visit. Really? Oh, that's awesome. He's in town in Toronto area with family for Christmas. So he was like, dude, I got to come by. So we hit up the quiet shop yesterday for about 20 minutes. Sweet. Him and his wife and his one-year-old baby son. Oh, awesome. Yeah. So it was wonderful. And then we went back to the house and we hung out with Megan, the kids, and it was magical. Oh, that's so cool. I'm jealous.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's like Meg was like, no wonder why you like this guy. Like they're both amazing people. That's awesome. Yeah, that was great. So that was fun. That's really cool. Isn't that funny? Yeah. And then, yeah. That's your question. Today is...
00:39:17
Speaker
get that thing fixed up on the lathe. We've got some mill little projects, fix some broken issues on these little steel inserts that we made for the fixture that support the clip. They cracked. So I'm like, what is going on here? Because there's just one area where it's super duper thin. So we've got to redesign that today. So today's kind of like, get back into mode. Get back into production, which is fun. Excited.
00:39:47
Speaker
Go, go, go, go. So the fact that you're doing pen stuff on the knock means you bang through all of the knife inventory. That's done? Awesome. We made 1,800 screws, which will do us for like two months. Yeah, and there might be a few more things that we'll have to pick up over the next few weeks, but that's fine. Do 1,800 screws fit in like one mason jar?
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much hilarious. Do you, probably less. Do you anodize them all at once? No, no, we do them in small batches, but yeah, you could, I mean, you could dump the whole Mason jar in, uh, make it all blue, but we do all different colors. Um, but yes, we'll get them all organized in little Ziploc baggies. And we're trying to control our inventory flow a little bit better so that Eric doesn't have everything. Like we hold the main inventory here and then Eric has what he needs for the month.
00:40:45
Speaker
Oh, sure. Right, right. It's kind of like a breadcrumbs style. Yeah, exactly. We have the breadcrumbs in the manufacturing area so that we can control it and know when we're out. We don't have to wait for him to tell us last minute, like, I'm out. Yeah.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, that's something we're gonna have to deal with this year. Every time I bring it up with you or on the podcast, it's more of a real problem where I got a note yesterday that's like, hey, can you just order 500 of these instead of 100 for a screw that I show as McMaster having ordered a month ago, which is cheap. What's wrong with the system and sharing? We're just not good at this. Sharing hardware across products is a good thing, but we don't have a good way of dealing with
00:41:29
Speaker
And it's maybe being hard on myself, because we've actually reorganized a lot of our finished goods inventory and work in progress stuff. So it'll come. But I've done nothing to separate purchasing versus procurement yet. And I need to do that. So we'll figure it out. That's what 2019 is for. Right. Right.
00:41:53
Speaker
It very, very much feels like a year where I want to be the tortoise, right? Not the hair. Like I want to have the end of 2019 be the result of methodical, deliberate, good work over time and not just fast, frantic work to get a quick result, right? Like just build, like you're doing these fixtures. Like I'm going to spend the time today. I'm going to make these work so that over time we end up the year having
00:42:19
Speaker
fixtures that we have confidence in, process reliability, QC, independent operator, you know, ability to use these things and not load them backwards and cause mistakes, like all that kind of stuff. Yep. And I, I agree with you, but in my case, I also want to be the, the hair making quicker decisions and not being so bogged down. What do you mean by quicker decisions? Like, well, like you keep saying about that lathe.
00:42:45
Speaker
Oh, oh, well, that's not a quick decision. I just mean, I know, but I just mean that's a, I want to help you get that late. How do, how do we exactly? Yeah. Oh, I thought a lot about it. Right. And you don't want to do a pre-order, which I don't blame you for, for one second, but, um, man, so you talked to Christian and the insights on Swiss turning centers.
00:43:11
Speaker
Yeah, so he's got over 100 citizen machines, and he likes them. It's nuts. And so I texted him a lot a couple days ago. And I asked him about the tornos. And he goes, for you, get the tornos. And I was like, whoa, that's what I needed to hear. Holy cow. And he goes, I would get one, except I have 100 citizens. I'm not going to get one tornos. I'm like, OK, this is interesting. Was there a logic behind?
00:43:39
Speaker
I can, I certainly heard great things about Citizen. Tornos is even higher or what's the... I mean, they're probably the same playing field, but apparently you can, there's more room for tooling. Like for the same kind of price and machine, maybe even less money, you can put more tools on at one time. And I mean, if I can set up every tool for every job, I'm golden. Like changeovers will be nothing.
00:44:02
Speaker
And so actually, based on his advice, I wrote down a list of every single turning tool that I use, drill, boring bar for every job, I made a spreadsheet for it. And I was like, I thought there would be a lot more crossover between all the parts, but like this part, this one tool is used 7% of the time, like for 7% of the parts. And I'm like, that's nothing. Whereas this like a main turning tool is used 88% of the time. And I'm like, okay, I definitely need that one.
00:44:31
Speaker
But other ones are used just like for one job. I was kind of blown away to see it in a physical form. Going like, wow, I thought, I thought I would have crossed over a lot more stuff. Can you consolidate even the, even if you had to slightly change a design, can you consolidate that list of tools? Yeah. And I was thinking about that as I was writing it down, but sometimes you need a drill like that size. Get a bore, get a boring bar. 0.104.
00:45:00
Speaker
I don't know what stopped you from small micro 100 boring bar. You could switch if you have one small, get the drill for your smallest hole, use it for every hole and then open up the other ones with a boring bar. Yeah, I might be able to do that for that one, that one.
00:45:16
Speaker
Depending on the depth of it, but yeah, I'll think about that for sure. Cause then you save a spot. Um, even though he, yeah, small diameters are tough, but like, there's a lot to be said for those you drills or like the Sandvik eight eighties where you can on a turning center or a B axis, like a multi-mill turn, you can drill face ID bore. And I think even OD turn with them, which is crazy. Yeah. That's awesome.
00:45:42
Speaker
Cool Yep, so lots lots happening this year. It's good. Who's the tornos dealer for you then? Okay, so that that's a easy natural fit Yep, already got my quote in did you really? Yeah, just to see sure like I need to know I need information. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't yeah agreed Yeah, that's gonna be tough though. I'll see difficult then to find the one you want used and
00:46:09
Speaker
Yeah. I'm toying with the idea of new, like I want to see what it's going to be. Yeah. Well, awesome. Keep me posted. Yeah. Super psyched. All right. All right. I will catch you next week. Sounds good. Take care. Have a good one. Happy new year. Happy new year to you too. Crush it. I'll see you. Bye. Bye.