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Running Magic Bobby McGee
12 Plays5 months ago
#492 Running Magic with Coach Bobby McGee
Welcome
Welcome to Episode #492 of the 303 Endurance Podcast. We're your hosts Coaches Rich Soares and April Spilde. Thanks for joining us for another week of interviews, coaching tips and discussion.
We are excited to have special guest Coach Bobby McGee.
I gotta say, Rich this might be an episode for the ages! We have so much excitement and goods to bring in this show I don’t know where to start!
Show Sponsor: UCAN
UCAN created LIVSTEADY as an alternative to sugar based nutrition products. LIVSTEADY was purposefully designed to work with your body, delivering long-lasting energy you can feel. Whether UCAN Energy Powders, Bars or Gels, LIVSTEADY's unique time-release profile allows your body to access energy consistently throughout the day, unlocking your natural ability to finish stronger and recover more quickly!
In Today's Show
-
Announcements and News
-
Interview: Coach Bobby McGee
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Get Gritty: Go all in—before you feel ready.
-
TriDot Workout of the Week: Bike-Run Bricks
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Fun Segment: Quick Q & A with Coaches Rich & April
Announcements and News:
Our Announcements are supported by Vespa Power today.
Endurance athletes—what if you could go farther, faster, and feel better doing it? With Vespa Power Endurance Nutrition, you can unlock your body’s natural fat-burning potential and fuel performance without the sugar crash. Vespa helps you tap into steady, clean energy—so you stay strong, focused, and in the zone longer. Less sugar. More power. Real results. Fuel smarter with Vespa—because endurance is earned, not spiked.
Fun Fact: Vespa is the name of the Genus of Wasps.
Upcoming Programming -
May 24 - Coach Bobby McGee on the upcoming Run Camp May 31
May 31 - Bike Camp Highlights and interviews
G2G Spring Training Camp
May 17-18 - Swim Focus in C.Springs and Chatfield
May 24-25 - Bike Focus - Chatfield/Chatfield
May 31-June 1 Run Focus - Boulder/Boulder
Volunteer with us Jun 14, 2025 at the Boulder Res!
We are privileged to be in the IRONMAN Boulder 70.3 Transition Area again for 2025.
If you like watching the race and cheering for spectators, there is no better seat in the house. As a volunteer you will be in the middle of the action and the volunteer shirt will get you access to a lot of places regular spectators cannot access (eg finish line).
Please join me by signing up for the Transition Area early shift. It's a dang early morning, but you are also done relatively early and will have a blast!
https://ironman.volunteerlocal.com/volunteer/?id=88391&job_name=transition%20t1
TriDot Pool School July 26-27. https://www.tridotpool
Recommended
Transcript
Consistency in Running
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ever since research has started in running, the biggest force accelerator is consistency.
00:00:07
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So if you can run for an hour, but you can only do it once every four days, you're way better off running for 15 minutes four days in a row.
00:00:16
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All right.
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And creating that, that, that kind of consistency.
00:00:19
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So looking for resources is more in terms of somebody that shares your goals, is honest with you, keeps you on track,
00:00:30
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and is not afraid to go to expert resources if they're not an expert themselves.
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But very often somebody who cares is a better bet than somebody who knows.
Episode Introduction
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Welcome everybody to your 303 Endurance Podcast.
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Aloha everybody, get ready for your 303 Endurance Podcast.
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Woo!
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Welcome to episode 492 of the 303 Endurance Podcast.
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We're your hosts, coaches Rich Soares and April Spilde.
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Thanks for joining us for another week of endurance interviews, coaching tips, and discussion.
Interview Excitement
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We are dang excited to have special guest coach Bobby McGee joining us.
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This is a part of our 303 webinar series that we had this past Tuesday.
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We are bringing that discussion to you in our podcast this weekend, and there is so much more.
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Coach April, how are you doing?
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Rich, this might be the episode of the ages, sir.
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I think that we have so much to talk about and we're going to, we're definitely going to make it impactful because I can't tell you how amazing this past weekend was, how amazing having coach Bobby on our webinar was like, I don't know where to start with the amazing things that have occurred in the last seven days.
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It's been a blur and it's been a lot of fun.
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And, you know, it's just, it's kind of fun.
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I just feel like, you know, it's like it's happening, you know?
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It is.
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I was saying to another friend of mine that when you and I partnered up, you hear the phrase like, oh, we 10X, right?
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No, you and I have 20X to this sucker.
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Like we are on a rocket ship.
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Yeah.
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Feels good.
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Yes.
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And we got a massive camp, massive for us.
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I mean, it's going to be a lot of folks coming up tomorrow.
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So we got a great time.
Nutrition Highlights
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Let's do this.
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Let's get going because we've got a lot to get to.
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And let's start out by giving a shout out to our show sponsor, Generation UCAN.
00:02:34
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UCAN created Live Steady as an alternative to sugar-based nutrition products.
00:02:38
Speaker
Live Steady was purposely designed to work with your body, delivering long-lasting energy that you can feel.
00:02:43
Speaker
Whether it's UCAN Energy Powders, Bars, or Gels, Live Steady's unique time release profile allows you to access energy consistently throughout the day, unlocking your natural ability to finish stronger and recover more quickly.
00:02:56
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And you're going to need that at our camp this weekend.
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Go for it, April.
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Yeah, I was just going to say that I used UCAN on our long race rehearsal last Saturday, and it was all I could do.
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Having that keep me up with trying to stay in Sasha's tailwind, because that woman was fierce.
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I said, I'm going to call you Sasha Fierce from now on.
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She is just a powerhouse.
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Shout out to UCAN.
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Yeah, she just about ripped my legs off too.
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We'll talk about that.
Episode Overview
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In today's show, we have a lot going on.
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We have our announcements and news.
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We're going to bring in our interview with coach Bobby McGee, which is just something spectacular.
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We have our get gritty tip, which was brought to us by one of our athletes.
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Laura cannot wait to share that.
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We're going to be talking about going all in before you feel ready.
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And then Rich is going to bring in the TriDot workout of the week.
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And we'll finish up with a quick Q&A with myself and Coach Rich, because we know you love to hear about how interesting we are.
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Of course, yes.
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How interesting we are.
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All
Vespa Power Nutrition Benefits
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right.
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I'm going to kick off our announcements and news with this.
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First of all, I want to give a shout out.
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And we've gotten a lot of support from Vespa Power, Vespa Endurance.
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This is a nutrition product.
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And endurance athletes, what if you could go farther, faster, and feel better doing it?
00:04:27
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With Vespa Power Endurance Nutrition, you can unlock your body's natural fat burning potential and fuel performance without the sugar crash.
00:04:35
Speaker
Vespa helps you tap into steady, clean energy so that you can stay strong, focused, and in the zone longer.
00:04:42
Speaker
Less sugar, more power, real results.
00:04:45
Speaker
Fuel smarter with Vespa because endurance is earned, not spiked.
00:04:49
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I love that.
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Fun fact, April.
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My daughter was doing a, this is Lauren, was doing a word puzzle, a crossword puzzle yesterday.
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And she came across this prompt, which was an animal in the genus Vespa.
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It's a genus.
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And it was, the answer was Hornet.
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Eight down was Hornet.
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Oh my gosh.
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So Vespa is actually the name of the genus, not the family.
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The genus, the family is like Vespalicia or, you know, Vespa something or whatever, but, but the genus is Vespa.
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For wasps.
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Clever.
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How clever.
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I know Peter made that connection.
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Yeah.
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Of course.
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Good job, Lauren, on that crossword too.
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That sounds like a dandy.
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Yeah.
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She's like- More power to you.
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I suck at those.
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Even being an English major.
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Yeah, isn't that funny?
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Anyway, so there you go.
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A little fun fact about Vespa is that it is the genus of wasps.
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All right, our upcoming programming.
Upcoming Training Camps
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Folks, of course, today we've got Bobby McGee.
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Next week, we are going to be giving a readout of the Bike Camp highlights, interviews.
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We're still working on another special guest.
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We're going to hint the heck out of this.
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Coming up in our, so last week we had the first weekend of our training camp.
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This is the swim focus training camp in Colorado Springs.
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And then in Chatfield, we did a pool focus on Saturday in the Springs.
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We did open water focus at Chatfield on Sunday.
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And we had Jennifer Gutierrez.
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This is former triathlon Olympian with the, you know, rings tattooed on her wrist and everything.
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Came out to talk to our athletes.
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We had a great time talking with Jennifer.
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And guess what?
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We're considering her a full-fledged partner of the show now.
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She's going to come out and ride with us tomorrow at our bike camp that starts May 24th.
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It's a bike-focused camp.
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We have a full day of skills and drills and then training both days.
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It's going to be a blast.
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The syllabus looks amazing.
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We're covering so much.
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Rich, I wanted to say this will be the first time I can ever say that
Athletes' Success Stories
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I got to ride a bike with an Olympian.
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Holy mackerel.
00:07:14
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Right?
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Yeah.
00:07:16
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Well, I think we'll use Jennifer to help us keep track of Sasha.
00:07:23
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Yes, yes.
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Keep her on her heels.
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Let me share something with you real quick about that because I had my call with Sasha on Wednesday and we were talking about the camp and how much she appreciated everything.
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She said the thing that she loved the most was the group ride and having someone chase her down, like having someone match her because she's usually a rocket, right?
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So I was like, you know what?
00:07:48
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I'm going to tell Rich that.
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I know he would love to hear that.
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So you need to keep her on her toes this weekend.
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She's expecting it.
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Well, good.
Training Strategies Discussion
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I think I'm going to bring my bike shoes this time.
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Seriously.
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Yeah.
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Full confession, folks.
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I packed, I mean, I must've packed a million things in my car last weekend.
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The one thing I forgot to pack coming down to Colorado Springs were my cycling shoes.
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So I had to keep up with her in my running shoes.
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And that's really hard to do.
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You cannot, you cannot get out of the saddle and climb.
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And that was all climbing in a sense.
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That ride, y'all, if you could have seen it, it was either you're going up or you're going down.
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So you were put through your paces for sure with that, Rich.
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Yeah.
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Anyway.
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Yeah.
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Tell her that was a blast.
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I can't wait to see her again tomorrow as well as everybody else that's coming out.
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And then March, or sorry, May 31st through June 1st, we've got a run focus camp.
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This is going to be in Boulder both days.
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And we've got coach Bobby McGee coming out to visit with our campers and talk about running, running, not swim mechanics, but running mechanics.
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And, and yeah, help us all become faster runners.
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So lots of cool stuff there.
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Then in June, June 14th, please come and join us.
00:09:04
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Volunteer with us at the Boulder Res, June 14th for Boulder 70.3.
00:09:09
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We're going to be in the transition area again.
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If you like,
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If you like watching the race, cheering for spectators, there's no better seat in the house.
00:09:17
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Join us.
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There's a link here in the show notes.
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It's an early morning, but man, you get done early and you have an absolute blast.
00:09:24
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And, and, and by the way, you don't have to take the shuttle because you can park in the res if you're a volunteer.
00:09:29
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all sorts of little side benefits to being a volunteer.
00:09:32
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And then don't miss our TriDot Pool School July 26th to the 27th.
00:09:35
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We've got folks starting to sign up already.
00:09:37
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This is, I'm telling you, this is the fastest way to get faster and smoother in the water, bar none.
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And you can learn more about the TriDot Pool School in the link that we have here in the show notes.
00:09:51
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And you can learn more about all of this at our grit to greatness, endurance.com page.
TriDot Pool School Introduction
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Yes, and then Alice shared with me just another little plug for TriDot Pool School.
00:10:03
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Alice, when she walked into the USAPHA pool area, she said, wow, this is really nice.
00:10:08
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So just want to give this a good pool, folks, for you to come out and visit us and have two full days of amazing swim-focused technique work and, like Rich said, getting faster.
00:10:20
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So just want to give that plug for Alice, too, because she was feeling it.
00:10:24
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She was vibing with that.
00:10:26
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with the USAPA pool.
00:10:27
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So awesome.
00:10:29
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Well, I wanted to share two really cool things with you, Rich, that happened over the week.
00:10:34
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Two of my athletes had extremely great success on their first tries of 2025.
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I'm going to start with Sarah.
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She had an exceptional performance at the Brickyard Sprint.
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And I want to share with you her goals, which she completely smashed.
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She wanted to have steady power on the bike and run.
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Don't start out too hot and then die later is what she put in there.
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Or another goal was to be within 10 minutes of race X and to finish with a smile.
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She not only did that, she completely obliterated those goals.
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She had an average cadence of 90, which we have been working on that steadily for the last six, seven months.
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And she said that she never felt like she went totally outside of herself.
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And she ended up beating her her projected time.
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I believe it was more than 10 minutes.
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So just a big shout out to her on a successful major success on the first race of the year for her for a triathlon.
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And she's just, she's just a go getter.
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Aaron did the Kansas city sprint triathlon as a, uh, to shake off the rust for Des Moines, uh, 70.3.
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And really that was just to help her feel comfortable on her beautiful tri bike.
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It was to help her get in her, uh,
00:11:58
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racing and nutrition plan and really just to feel confident in her straight race strategy for this specific one.
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She not only did that, she met and blew out all three of her goals as well.
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She wanted to have a bike split average of 15 miles per hour.
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She actually hit 17 as an average.
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She was, one of her goals was to go sub two hours and she was an hour and I believe 36 minutes to
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So she blew it out of the water.
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She also surpassed her race X projected time by 10 minutes.
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So I just got to give both of you all just the best praise and congratulations on both of you executing a job well done.
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Congratulations.
00:12:42
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That's awesome.
00:12:43
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And I would like to, in turn, give a shout out to three of my athletes that had a great weekend.
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So I'm going to start.
Coach Bobby McGee Introduction
00:12:51
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I'm going to start with Max.
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Max, recently, we just started working together.
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So, you know, this is all him.
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He just did the Colfax full distance marathon.
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Yeah.
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Get this.
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His race X predicted time.
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Follow this.
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3, 12, 55, three hours, 12 minutes, 55 seconds.
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It's a pretty fast marathon, right?
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Yes.
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Guess what his actual final time was?
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3, 12, 49.
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Beat it by six seconds.
00:13:25
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Wow.
00:13:26
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Is that incredible or what?
00:13:29
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I think that's the closest I've heard anyone comment.
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I mean, seriously.
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I just, I love that.
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And now I'm going to, I'm going to roll through.
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So that's Max.
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Congratulations, Max.
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Woohoo.
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Can't wait to see you tomorrow.
00:13:43
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And now let's talk about, let's start with Miss Stephanie.
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So Stephanie Headcamper, she, her race X, let's get her race X here pulled up.
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Her prediction for,
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Chattanooga 70.3, 544.37 was her predicted time for Chattanooga 70.3, and her actual time was a 535.
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Wow.
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Beat it by nine minutes, 535.14.
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How about that?
00:14:18
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Yes.
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Isn't that awesome?
00:14:20
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So now that takes us, that's Stephanie.
00:14:24
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Now we're going to go to Caroline.
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Caroline Young, and she predicted time for Chattanooga 70.3, a 502.40, and she came in with a 452.02.
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So both of them 10 minutes under.
00:14:33
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Wow.
00:14:43
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I'm telling you what.
00:14:44
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Yeah.
00:14:45
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Way to go, ladies.
00:14:46
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Way to go, Max.
00:14:47
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So great results everywhere.
00:14:50
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Yeah, that's some huge wins.
00:14:54
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10 minutes is nothing to sneeze at.
00:14:56
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And you know what?
00:14:57
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We'll get you there to 10 minutes.
00:15:00
Speaker
Spot working with great grit to greatness, endurance coaching.
00:15:04
Speaker
I'm sorry, folks.
00:15:04
Speaker
We're jumping off the rails here.
00:15:06
Speaker
I love it, though.
00:15:07
Speaker
Today's ask coach sponsor, which we're going to bring in coach Bobby here in a minute is brought to you by grit to greatness, endurance coaching.
00:15:15
Speaker
So we're going to cut to the chase.
00:15:17
Speaker
You want results?
00:15:18
Speaker
We've got the tools.
00:15:20
Speaker
Great to greatness endurance coaching plus tri dot equals smarter workouts, better feedback and real progress.
00:15:26
Speaker
Click either mine or coach Rich's tri dot link and get two weeks free and you can experience these results that we're sharing with you on our amazing athletes.
00:15:34
Speaker
Train with purpose from day one.
00:15:36
Speaker
After that, it's as low as $14.99 a month.
00:15:39
Speaker
Ready to train like an athlete on a mission?
00:15:42
Speaker
Hit our link in the show notes and let's get started today.
00:15:45
Speaker
Awesome.
00:15:47
Speaker
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to introduce our guest here, uh, coach Bobby McGee.
00:15:51
Speaker
And the way I'm going to do this, we're going to give him a formal intro when we get into the webinar, but I just want to kind of, you know, kind of share my, the way I, I met Bobby McGee was actually through a friend of mine, actually Sue Reynolds is an athlete.
00:16:04
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She actually wrote the book, the athlete inside.
00:16:07
Speaker
She, she went from being a, you know, just a non-athlete to a national champion, multiple national champion,
00:16:15
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She is, I think, 70 years old now.
00:16:18
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So she's a little older than your typical athlete, your typical age grouper.
00:16:23
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So to discover this sport that late and to thrive in it that well, she was working with Coach Bobby McGee as a running coach back then.
00:16:32
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And we actually went and did this really fun interview in Bobby's office.
00:16:37
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Sue Reynolds, Bobby McGee, myself with all of our, you know, all lavalier mic'd up.
00:16:42
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and did this great interview about how they work together.
00:16:46
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I was so blown away.
00:16:47
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I was just so impressed by him that fast forward when now TriDot coach and knowing that he's now signed up with TriDot and RunDot and he's a part of Predictive Fit is amazing that our paths have crossed again.
00:17:01
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I feel really blessed that we got a chance to
00:17:05
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have him share his wisdom on the, on our webinar.
00:17:08
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And, you know, I just think that, you know, if you're a runner, this is somebody you really want to pay attention to.
00:17:14
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This is a person that will really help you find not only success in this sport, but performance and enjoyment.
00:17:21
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And I think that's probably the most important part, you know, just to find some magic in your running with, with
Olympic Coaching Story
00:17:27
Speaker
coach Bobby McGee.
00:17:27
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So let's roll into it right now and we'll see you on the other side.
00:17:31
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Here we go.
00:17:33
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All right, wonderful.
00:17:35
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Well, welcome everyone.
00:17:36
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Today we are honored to be joined by coach Bobby McGee, a world renowned running coach with over three decades, maybe four decades of experience in endurance sports.
00:17:45
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A seven time Olympic coach, Bobby has worked with nine Olympic medalists.
00:17:50
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helping shape the careers of elite athletes like Barb Lindquist, Gwen Jorgensen, and Flora Duffy, who became the world's top-ranked triathlete, with him being a key part of their high-performance teams.
00:18:01
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Bobby's first medalist was a gold in the marathon at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta.
00:18:08
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Josiah Thungwain, you're going to have to help me with that pronunciation, Bobby, but I'll be later.
00:18:15
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Yes.
00:18:17
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Known for blending science with intuition, Bobby's innovative training methods have transformed runners at every level.
00:18:24
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Get ready to gain insights from one of the most respected minds in our sport.
00:18:28
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Welcome, Coach Bobby McGee.
00:18:29
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We're glad to have you with us.
00:18:32
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Thank you so much.
00:18:33
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Great to be with you guys.
00:18:34
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It's always a pleasure.
00:18:35
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Really looking forward to it.
00:18:37
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And Josiah, sweet little man that he is, his name is pronounced Josiah Tongwani.
00:18:44
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And Josiah was not able to read by the time he got to the Olympics.
00:18:50
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or right.
00:18:51
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And so he wrote his name phonetically, J O S A Y A. And he asked me to help him spell his name correctly.
00:19:00
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So we chose the simplest form, just J O S I A. Now, of course, Josiah can read and write very, very intelligent, very successful man.
00:19:10
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What a fascinating story and shows the connection and the relationship that you have with your athletes.
00:19:16
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Before we get into our formal questions, Bobby, we would love to do a little icebreaker with you called two truths and a lie.
00:19:22
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We're going to ask you for three statements about yourself or your practice as a coach.
00:19:27
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You give us those three statements, please.
00:19:30
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There should be two truths and one lie in this bunch.
00:19:33
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Coach April and I will try to pick out the lie from the bunch.
00:19:37
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We'll also even ask our listeners to go ahead and put in the chat what they think your lie is.
00:19:44
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Whenever you're ready,
00:19:46
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I better grab a pen and paper.
00:19:49
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We're ready.
00:19:52
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All right.
00:19:52
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I'm good to go.
00:19:54
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So my first statement is my real name is Robert.
00:20:00
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My second statement is I speak two languages.
00:20:06
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And my third statement is my best sport personally was field hockey.
00:20:19
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Coach April, do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?
00:20:23
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I think I'm going to go first.
00:20:24
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I think that number one is the truth or the lie.
00:20:28
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I think that your real name is Bobby.
00:20:31
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And I think the others are the truth.
00:20:33
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That's where I'm going with it.
00:20:35
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I like that too.
00:20:37
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But I actually, and I don't know why I feel this way.
00:20:41
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I feel like in something I've read that that is actually not your real name and it's actually a nickname.
00:20:47
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So I'm going to go with number one is a lie also, but for different reasons.
00:20:50
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So Bobby, would you please reveal what the lie was?
00:20:54
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Correct.
00:20:55
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Not for April's reasons, but for your reason.
00:20:57
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Because my last name is McGee and the 1974 Janis Joplin song was me and Bobby McGee.
00:21:04
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I got the nickname at university and I became Bobby all those years ago.
00:21:11
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I love that.
00:21:13
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I do love that.
00:21:14
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I love that insight story.
00:21:15
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Okay.
00:21:16
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So now you need to help us get a little bit more detail here.
00:21:21
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Your best sport athletically personally was field hockey.
00:21:24
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Tell us about that.
00:21:25
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When was that?
00:21:26
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And like, what position did you play?
00:21:28
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And
00:21:29
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Yeah, I played field hockey probably from about 1968 to about 1981.
00:21:37
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And I got up into the majors, the South African majors of field hockey.
00:21:44
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I did not play for the national team.
00:21:45
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I played for the second team.
00:21:48
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And I was a goalkeeper, was a goaltender.
00:21:56
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So what was the worst?
00:21:59
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Did you actually experience any injuries yourself personally as a goalie playing field hockey?
00:22:05
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Oh, yeah, a lot.
00:22:06
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Probably about five broken noses, a couple of concussions, a bunch of broken fingers.
00:22:13
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Yeah, it's a rough position.
00:22:19
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Well, that's fun.
00:22:20
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And your second truth was two...
00:22:26
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I can't read my own handwriting.
00:22:27
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Two languages.
00:22:28
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Oh, two languages.
00:22:29
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Yeah, please tell us what languages.
00:22:31
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So I speak English, obviously, but my mom was Afrikaans speaking.
00:22:36
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And so it's a Dutch derivative language that a number of South Africans speak.
00:22:42
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And as a result, I can understand Dutch definitely and then have a good take on Norwegian and on German and things like that because it's the same root.
00:22:54
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But it's a very pigeonized language now.
00:22:57
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It's a very old language.
00:23:02
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Fascinating.
00:23:03
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And have you ever gotten a chance to use that in coaching athletes?
00:23:07
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Yes, very much so.
00:23:08
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So very much in my formative years as a coach, at least half of my coaching was in Afrikaans, correct?
00:23:19
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Before we pivot into our questions, I just want to call it a comment here.
00:23:23
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This is from one of our coaches, Coach Carey.
00:23:27
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If you think about it, you are still a goaltender.
00:23:30
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You're just tending to the goals of your athletes.
00:23:33
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I love that.
00:23:34
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Thank you so much.
00:23:35
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That's very kind and very, very accurate.
00:23:38
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Yes.
00:23:40
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All right.
00:23:40
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I will lead off the first question here, and then April and I will go back and forth.
00:23:45
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So I guess I'll be the evens and you could be the odds, April.
00:23:50
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Coach Bob, you've been coaching since the early 1980s.
00:23:53
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What initially drew you into endurance sports and how has your coaching philosophy evolved over the decades?
00:24:01
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Well, my dad was a very keen sports viewer, right?
00:24:07
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He loved all his sports.
00:24:08
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He played rugby and ran cross country in high school.
00:24:14
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And so while I was at boarding school, he used to cut out all the clippings out of the newspapers about boxing and about cycling and about all these things, right?
00:24:23
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Triathlon only started for me.
00:24:27
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I think the first time I took an interest was like 1978.
00:24:29
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So it was a little later to the party.
00:24:33
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And then when I graduated quite young, I was in university by the time I was 17.
00:24:39
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And my dad asked me what did I want to do at college.
00:24:42
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And I said, sport.
00:24:44
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But he said, you know, apartheid was around, so there was no international sport.
00:24:49
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So the only pathway to get into sport was either coaching, which was quite a part-time job.
00:24:56
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In those days, all the teachers were coaches.
00:25:00
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And so I said, I want to do sports.
00:25:02
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So therefore, I want to go to university, become a teacher so that I can coach after hours.
00:25:07
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So pretty much from day one, I wanted to be a coach.
00:25:10
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And then I was drawn to the endurance events because I was a better endurance athlete than I was at anything else.
00:25:18
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Not that I was very good at that either.
00:25:21
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But I had all those goals to break two minutes for the 800 and all those kind of things when I was in high school.
00:25:28
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And so I went to university to study and then I went to teach.
00:25:34
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And during teaching, I started learning how to coach distance runners more specifically.
00:25:39
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And so then after teaching for four or five years, I went back to college and did post-grad work in exercise science, focusing exclusively on endurance events.
00:25:48
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So it's been around for a long time.
00:25:51
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I'm one of those few people that still use my degree to this day.
00:25:54
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Yeah.
00:25:58
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That's well said, Bobby.
00:26:02
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So I love your story and the tagline of your coaching mantra is grace, gratitude, guts, which is very powerful.
00:26:14
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And it's also really aligned with ours, which is get gritty.
00:26:18
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Okay.
00:26:19
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Yes.
00:26:20
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Can you share how these values influence your approach to coaching and athlete development?
00:26:27
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Yeah, I think that, you know, I kind of broke them down when I was thinking about this question.
00:26:33
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And I was an English lit major as well.
00:26:37
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So the whole concept of grace, both from a mechanic standpoint and looking good while you are, you know, doing competition was always important to me.
00:26:49
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So as a phys ed student, you're always looking at how people are moving, even to this day.
00:26:54
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we'll be driving down the road and somebody will be jogging along the sidewalk.
00:26:58
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And my wife would say, oh, give the poor person a card, you know, let them, because they're clearly not.
00:27:04
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So, you know, grace is a big thing for people that watch us compete, right?
00:27:09
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And then, of course, grace under pressure, the psych-emotional component, the spiritual component is to do these things with grace, to either succeed or fail with grace.
00:27:20
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So that's where the grace part came about.
00:27:22
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Yeah.
00:27:24
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The gratitude came a long time ago, and it's very interesting now that one of the primary directives that life skill coaches, as well as sports psychologists, use is the concept of gratitude, having a gratitude journal and so on.
00:27:40
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And the way that I interpreted was that if you are grateful for what you have, you
00:27:45
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you can have an abundance mentality and it's so much easier to move forward.
00:27:49
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So whether that was sport or whether that was life, gratitude seemed to be a primary for me.
00:27:55
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And then guts definitely encapsulates grit and all those sort of things.
00:28:00
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And then in the last, since the, about six months before the Tokyo Olympics,
00:28:08
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And this was six months before 2020, not six months before 2021 with COVID.
00:28:14
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So about 18 months before the actual Games, I was working with a sports psychologist by the name of David Spindler.
00:28:21
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And he was working with the German, he's an Australian guy, and he's working with the German cycling team.
00:28:28
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And he had come across something that we've known about for a while in business and in other forms of psychology called the thrive mentality.
00:28:39
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But Nassim Taleb called it anti-fragility.
00:28:46
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And one of the warnings that Taleb speaks about in anti-fragility is that it's such a powerful mindset.
00:28:52
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It's such a powerful tool that you actually have to be careful with other people that are fragile if you are anti-fragile.
00:29:00
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And what David discovered was by using heart rate variability, he could pinpoint what were the limitations for athletes.
00:29:11
Speaker
And these limitations, I think Mike Tyson came up with that, the current world ultramarathon female champion came up with that, is the concept of...
00:29:24
Speaker
thriving on the very hardest stuff so finding out what's hard for you and then spending as much effort as you possibly can to learn to love that so mike tyson for example didn't like physical conditioning work and he would just say to himself it's got to be my favorite thing i'm going to make this my most favorite thing i'm going to make it my priority
00:29:45
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And I'm going to love it and I'm going to tell everybody how much I love it.
00:29:48
Speaker
So that's taking the grit and the guts to the next level, right?
00:29:52
Speaker
Which is thriving on the hard stuff.
00:29:55
Speaker
Even to the point where things that are uncomfortable that you voluntarily take on board cannot really be called pain.
00:30:07
Speaker
Unless you are a massagist or something like that, right?
00:30:10
Speaker
But we don't do things because they're painful.
00:30:14
Speaker
We do things because they're a gateway for us to deal with that level of intensity.
00:30:19
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And so when you start messing around with the semantics of the word pain, you can have a tremendous amount of breakthroughs, especially if you add the word, oh, wait a minute, this is voluntary.
00:30:29
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Nobody's forcing me to do this.
00:30:31
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I can't complain about it as pain.
00:30:34
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And so that's how this whole guts thing has been coming along for like 15 years.
00:30:42
Speaker
Wow, Bobby, that was amazing.
00:30:44
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I was so deep in your explanation throughout that.
00:30:49
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But the one thing that really resonated with me was the gratitude and the coming at sport from a position or a mindset of abundance versus limitations already.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah, the gap versus the gain.
00:31:07
Speaker
The gap versus the gain, exactly.
00:31:09
Speaker
Well, wonderful.
00:31:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:12
Speaker
All right, so I want to talk about some of your work with professional triathletes.
00:31:16
Speaker
You have worked with Olympic triathletes like Barb Lindquist and world champions like Gwen Jorgensen.
00:31:22
Speaker
This is a two-part question.
00:31:24
Speaker
We're going to start with this first part.
00:31:25
Speaker
What distinguishes these elite athletes at that level, and how do you tailor your coaching to meet their unique needs versus your age grouper unique needs?
00:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, I...
00:31:41
Speaker
I have an answer for that that's not normally the stock answer.
00:31:46
Speaker
And Josiah comes into this answer, right?
00:31:48
Speaker
And it's just as often as much responsibility to coach an age grouper as it is to coach a pro.
00:32:01
Speaker
For the simple reason that some pros are doing this because they're very talented at it.
00:32:07
Speaker
They have the mindset, they have the approach, they have the engines to be able to be successful.
00:32:13
Speaker
And when they are no longer successful, they'll probably not do it anymore.
00:32:16
Speaker
There are some pros like that.
00:32:19
Speaker
And having grown up working with African runners where they could win the London Marathon
00:32:26
Speaker
And earn 10 years of salary in one go.
00:32:28
Speaker
It's very hard for them to keep going after that or when they lose form.
00:32:33
Speaker
I remember Josiah saying to me one day at a training camp up in the northeast of the country, we'd just done a 30K run at altitude and they'd been ticking along at about 505 pace.
00:32:46
Speaker
And I was on the mountain bike, eating them water bottles and stuff.
00:32:49
Speaker
And when I was done, I threw my bike against the wall of the house, went inside, took off my cycling shorts, came out in running shorts, and I was going to go for a quick five mile run.
00:32:58
Speaker
And Josiah said to me, Bobby, what's your best time for 10 K?
00:33:03
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And I said, just a shade under 35 minutes, Josiah.
00:33:07
Speaker
And he said, how long have you been running Bobby?
00:33:09
Speaker
And I said, since 1968.
00:33:10
Speaker
And he said to me,
00:33:12
Speaker
Bobby, you can stop now.
00:33:13
Speaker
You're not going to get good.
00:33:15
Speaker
You've been trying long enough.
00:33:18
Speaker
So, you know, that's that different mindset.
00:33:21
Speaker
But with the pros, it's all encompassing.
00:33:23
Speaker
It's all in.
00:33:24
Speaker
It's massive.
00:33:25
Speaker
You know, they're training 35, 40 hours a week, sometimes 45 hours if you add all the little bits and pieces.
00:33:32
Speaker
Right.
00:33:32
Speaker
So they're working a work week at their sport.
00:33:36
Speaker
The, uh,
00:33:38
Speaker
The rewards are huge.
00:33:40
Speaker
The disappointments are huge.
00:33:41
Speaker
And so it's just an all-in thing.
00:33:45
Speaker
And whenever I'm on the road with elite athletes, you get that sense, right?
00:33:50
Speaker
I wake up hours before I need to wake up because I'm thinking of everything that needs to be done and making sure that they have what they need.
00:33:59
Speaker
So it's just a little bit more intense.
00:34:02
Speaker
And I'm quite glad in pro sports, and I know this is still a challenging thing for a number of coaches, but I'm so glad that AI is there for the simple reason that you have this information that you fed it that comes from...
00:34:22
Speaker
a myriad sources that we in the old days used to spend time traveling all over the world, interviewing coaches, trying to get as much information as we possibly could get.
00:34:31
Speaker
It just doesn't forget and it collates it and it has it available there.
00:34:35
Speaker
So it just, it really, really empowers you.
00:34:38
Speaker
But that the, the pros that that's, what's different with the pros.
00:34:42
Speaker
But if you have an age grouper who's trying to do something that's
00:34:48
Speaker
to the very best of their ability.
00:34:50
Speaker
I remember going to Comrades Marathon talks, which is the biggest ultra marathon in the world.
00:34:55
Speaker
And there'd be, you know, lawyers and dentists and doctors and all sorts of people in the audience.
00:35:00
Speaker
And I would say to them, at this point in time, the Comrades Marathon is way more important than your job, am I right?
00:35:07
Speaker
And they would all drop their heads in embarrassment, but it's true.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's so much more important to them than their jobs on that sphere.
00:35:15
Speaker
So they're trying to be self-actualized.
00:35:16
Speaker
They're trying to be the best version of themselves with something.
00:35:21
Speaker
And that's a tremendous responsibility when somebody asks you to help them with that.
00:35:26
Speaker
It requires all your attention, right?
00:35:29
Speaker
It's a privilege and an honor.
00:35:31
Speaker
And so in that way, it's no different working with age groupers and pros.
00:35:37
Speaker
Wow.
00:35:39
Speaker
I love that answer.
00:35:40
Speaker
And I'm going to ask you to just tuck this away.
00:35:44
Speaker
If we get a gap in questions later on, I want to ask you if you would tell us about what was going through your head when you were watching Gwen Jorgensen on the 10K of her performance in Rio.
00:35:56
Speaker
So, okay.
00:35:58
Speaker
So we'll just put a pin in that for later.
00:36:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:00
Speaker
All right.
00:36:01
Speaker
Sounds good.
00:36:01
Speaker
All right.
00:36:04
Speaker
Bobby, there was something that I wanted to share that just listening to you speak about your experience with both Olympians and age groupers.
00:36:14
Speaker
The first conversation I had with you was at Tridot School in Boulder.
00:36:20
Speaker
And I had asked you, who do you typically like to work with more, age groupers or Olympians?
00:36:25
Speaker
And one of the things that stuck out to me was...
00:36:29
Speaker
The response you gave, which blew my mind and really just endeared me to you, is that you enjoy working with age groupers the same, if not more, because of their willingness to work and the improvements that you can see and the things that you unlock with them.
00:36:46
Speaker
And I just wanted to share that was so inspiring to me because it can be intimidating talking with a coach that has that range of
00:36:54
Speaker
high profile clientele, but to hear that you get just as much, if not more enjoyment and personal satisfaction, if you will, working with age groupers, I think that's massive.
00:37:06
Speaker
So I wanted to say that to you too.
00:37:10
Speaker
Can you share?
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:11
Speaker
Go ahead, Simon.
00:37:13
Speaker
It's just amazing.
00:37:14
Speaker
I used to go every year for about 10 years to the Peachtree Road Race in Atlanta.
00:37:20
Speaker
And I'd have a couple of age groupers, but mostly I just had some pros in the race.
00:37:25
Speaker
But something occurred to me, and I don't think it was just a spontaneous occurrence.
00:37:30
Speaker
It was, I think somebody said something, that the person who's optimizing their performance might be coming 92,000th in this race, but they have got everything out of themselves.
00:37:41
Speaker
And that sort of further illustrates that, that that performance of running a 67 minute 10K is just as important for that person, if not more important than the world record, you know?
00:37:56
Speaker
Wow.
00:37:57
Speaker
Love that.
00:38:00
Speaker
Follow-up question.
00:38:01
Speaker
Can you share a particularly memorable moment or breakthrough with, and this can be with a high-profile athlete or just someone that you have put a lot of coaching into and a lot of investment in that exemplifies your coaching style?
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I think if somebody was coached by me four years ago and says, I know how Bobby coaches, they would be wrong because I changed so much so quickly, right?
00:38:32
Speaker
But I chose something that happened a long time ago with a professional athlete that I coached for 11 years.
00:38:40
Speaker
And I also chose something that happened more recently with an athlete that I coached for a very short period of time, right?
00:38:47
Speaker
So the first one is the athlete that I coached more recently, which is Jason West, who's, you know, arguably one of the best runners in the sport of T100 and 70.3.
00:38:55
Speaker
And, uh,
00:38:59
Speaker
Jason, out of the blue, put a post on Instagram saying, I've got to say I go completely with what Bobby McGee said in his book, Magical Running, that there's a very distinct difference between targets and goals, right?
00:39:15
Speaker
And that targets are markers that you set up the road and they can be impacted by good circumstances and bad circumstances.
00:39:23
Speaker
They don't necessarily come to fruition.
00:39:26
Speaker
Whereas goals are ways of being.
00:39:30
Speaker
And that if you're going to really be an athlete that sticks with the process, it's a being thing.
00:39:36
Speaker
You have to be a certain kind of person that is able to do the things you need to do.
00:39:42
Speaker
And the doing is chasing after targets, but the being are the goals.
00:39:46
Speaker
So I want to be patient.
00:39:47
Speaker
I want to be strong-willed.
00:39:48
Speaker
I want to be kind or whatever those are.
00:39:51
Speaker
Nobody can take those away from you, no matter what the circumstances are.
00:39:54
Speaker
So that was very cool to see that.
00:39:57
Speaker
It just brought a little tear to my eye.
00:40:00
Speaker
Because while I was working with Jason, it was readily apparent that he didn't need run help.
00:40:05
Speaker
had wonderful posture, he was a really powerful runner.
00:40:08
Speaker
I'd been working with him for years as a WTCS athlete before he went to long course, and he needed work on the bike.
00:40:17
Speaker
And there were better coaches out there than me on the bike, for sure.
00:40:21
Speaker
And we decided that would be a way better way for him to focus.
00:40:28
Speaker
The second story is way back in 1996 at the World Cross Country Championships.
00:40:34
Speaker
And the nice thing about the World Cross-Country Championships in those days, it was like the World Cross-Country Championships are now.
00:40:40
Speaker
In the interim, they used to be different distances.
00:40:44
Speaker
But now it's actually the greatest race on the planet.
00:40:47
Speaker
Because all the track athletes, all the cross-country athletes, all the road athletes go to the World Cross-Country Champs.
00:40:54
Speaker
So all of them get together in one race.
00:40:56
Speaker
The men run at 10K, the women run at 10K.
00:40:59
Speaker
over rough terrain.
00:41:01
Speaker
And I coached an athlete for many years who would typically come, a good race would be 24th in the World Cross Country Championships at that time.
00:41:11
Speaker
So she was going really well.
00:41:12
Speaker
I expected her to do very well.
00:41:16
Speaker
We got to a point where she really believed that she could go for a medal.
00:41:20
Speaker
And she
00:41:23
Speaker
Just before the race, somebody said to her, let's see if you can get into the teens.
00:41:31
Speaker
And it kind of messed up everything that we were working on.
00:41:35
Speaker
And so we went to work again, looking at who the girls were, what kind of tactics she would need.
00:41:41
Speaker
Ended up, she lost a sprint finish for the bronze medal and she came fifth.
00:41:46
Speaker
in the World Cross Country Championship, which is a massive breakthrough for her.
00:41:50
Speaker
And I was just walking past the stage.
00:41:53
Speaker
This happened to be in Stellenbosch in South Africa, the World Cross Country Championships that year.
00:41:58
Speaker
And I happened to be walking past the stage while she was being interviewed on national television.
00:42:03
Speaker
And all I heard was, I finally ran a race according to my coach's opinion of my ability rather than my own opinion.
00:42:11
Speaker
And that always kind of stuck with me that we tend to put ourselves down and not give ourselves the benefit of the objective facts of our preparation, right?
00:42:22
Speaker
We need somebody to tell us and we need to buy into that and we need to race according to that belief system.
00:42:29
Speaker
So it's been a useful story for me ever since.
00:42:37
Speaker
Yeah, I love that she had the self-awareness to see that you have an objective party that can hold up a mirror and say, hey, listen, these are the things that you've shown that you are capable of doing.
00:42:47
Speaker
Let me just remind you, I love that that was that actualization there.
00:42:55
Speaker
All right, so I know there are a lot of people that really wanna get into a conversation about running mechanics and troubleshooting their running form.
00:43:04
Speaker
So Bobby, you've always emphasized the importance of running mechanics in performance and injury prevention.
00:43:11
Speaker
What are the most common mechanical flaws that you see in runners of any ability?
00:43:16
Speaker
And what are some of the essential drills to address those or prevent those issues?
00:43:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
So from the time I prepared for this little chat of ours to now, I changed my mind.
00:43:32
Speaker
Just to illustrate what I was saying previously.
00:43:36
Speaker
It's relevant, but one of them remained the same.
00:43:39
Speaker
And so one of the most common things I see are people breaking.
00:43:44
Speaker
putting on the brakes.
00:43:46
Speaker
And so people understand that from the time you put your foot down until your foot gets underneath your body, that's your catch phase.
00:43:53
Speaker
That's your protection phase.
00:43:55
Speaker
That's your putting down phase.
00:43:59
Speaker
There's no direct propulsion going on at that phase.
00:44:02
Speaker
The propulsion starts from underneath you to out the back, right?
00:44:06
Speaker
That's the unloading phase.
00:44:08
Speaker
And
00:44:09
Speaker
And so if you're a heel striker, sure, your shin can be leaning ever so slightly backwards because you're more of a pivot runner.
00:44:19
Speaker
But just looking at any video of yourself at any speed, you're looking for that vertical shank.
00:44:25
Speaker
You're looking for that.
00:44:26
Speaker
When your foot starts to bear weight, your tibia should be standing upright.
00:44:32
Speaker
Should be vertical.
00:44:33
Speaker
And there's a number of things that you can do with that.
00:44:36
Speaker
And mostly realizing that if you're running with the mindset of reaching to make up distance, that's problematic.
00:44:45
Speaker
You should be running with the mindset of getting your foot down quickly.
00:44:49
Speaker
And the quicker you get your foot down, a whole lot of really good things happen.
00:44:53
Speaker
Your legs stiffen, all of those kind of things.
00:44:56
Speaker
So any of the drills that teach you to put your foot down quickly, so whether it's a skips or whether it's pulling a tire or whether it's pushing a wall or it's dribbles or it's skip exchanges, any one of those drills that are causing you to power those feet down as opposed to reaching.
00:45:20
Speaker
are good negators of putting on that breaking moment.
00:45:23
Speaker
And it doesn't matter whether you're a heel striker or a midfoot striker.
00:45:27
Speaker
So that would be the one.
00:45:28
Speaker
The second thing that I finally came up with is something that I see very often.
00:45:34
Speaker
And it's the concept of muscling the run.
00:45:37
Speaker
And it happens so much more in triathlon than what it happens in running, right?
00:45:43
Speaker
So you're in the water and you're anchoring, you're trying to get this biggest distance per stroke you possibly can, right?
00:45:49
Speaker
And you are contracting your muscles to pull yourself through the water.
00:45:53
Speaker
Similarly on the bike, you're getting over the top of that pedal stroke and then you're just mashing that pedal down.
00:45:59
Speaker
Quads are contracting, glutes are contracting, hamstrings are contracting.
00:46:03
Speaker
All of those things are shortening, right?
00:46:05
Speaker
And then when you get to the run, the type of muscle movement is eccentric, right?
00:46:12
Speaker
So if you're bending your knees a lot when you're putting your feet down and you're dropping into the ground, you're bringing in all that concentric motion, the shortening motion, right?
00:46:22
Speaker
So you're landing on the ball like a, landing on the ground like a basketball without air in it, right?
00:46:27
Speaker
So it requires a lot of work to try and bounce that basketball.
00:46:33
Speaker
So that muscling of the run, thinking that your propulsion takes place by pushing along the ground is absolutely incorrect.
00:46:42
Speaker
Your propulsion comes from stiffening your leg down.
00:46:45
Speaker
So hard work is putting your foot on the ground.
00:46:48
Speaker
Once it's stiffened, the tendons have got it.
00:46:51
Speaker
The muscles are stabilizing the joints.
00:46:53
Speaker
They're not propelling you forward.
00:46:56
Speaker
And so teaching people to to stiffen their legs against the ground, not let their pelvis drop too much so that they beat with their foot, they beat gravity to the ground before their pelvis starts to drop or, you know, shades of gray of that just make it light gray instead of dark gray.
00:47:16
Speaker
All right, so that would be definitely, and it's very easy to see.
00:47:19
Speaker
The cadence is down.
00:47:20
Speaker
It's a lot of work.
00:47:21
Speaker
There's a lot of, you know, rolling around, really trying to move yourself forward.
00:47:26
Speaker
And you see this a lot, you know.
00:47:29
Speaker
And then the last one is more situational, is people losing their form late in a race.
00:47:39
Speaker
And that's a very good thing because it means at some point in time, you had it.
00:47:47
Speaker
And you lost it because of fatigue.
00:47:49
Speaker
You didn't lose it because you don't have the skill or the coordination or the balance.
00:47:53
Speaker
You lost it because you were fatigued.
00:47:55
Speaker
And what I do for athletes there is I help them to differentiate between their central conditioning, which is oxygen, food, liquids, nutrition, all of those things, as opposed to your peripherals.
00:48:11
Speaker
your leg muscles, your knee flexors, your knee extenders, same thing with your ankles, same thing with your low back, your hips and so on.
00:48:18
Speaker
They need extra work.
00:48:21
Speaker
It doesn't matter how much you run.
00:48:23
Speaker
Running is not enough.
00:48:26
Speaker
A, you start off so impaired off the bike, right?
00:48:30
Speaker
That's why running a marathon in an Ironman is so much less physically hard than running a fresh marathon because you just don't have the strength to hurt yourself.
00:48:41
Speaker
All right.
00:48:42
Speaker
So people realize, oh, wait a minute, I have to do a bunch of muscle endurance work for my legs so that I can utilize the cardiovascular endurance that I have worked so hard to get.
00:48:56
Speaker
As an Ironman athlete, I don't care who you are, you're never going to be running 125 miles a week.
00:49:01
Speaker
If you do, you're riding three and a half hours a week.
00:49:05
Speaker
That's basically it, which is not enough, right?
00:49:09
Speaker
And so for people to realize that long, steep calf-burning hikes are a really good way to develop that muscle endurance, that fat-burning capability, all of that sort of stuff.
00:49:22
Speaker
You know, maybe you can run for 90 minutes and you're capable of doing that.
00:49:25
Speaker
Maybe you can run for two hours and you're capable of doing that.
00:49:28
Speaker
But everybody's capable after that.
00:49:31
Speaker
to go on a two and a half, three hour hike if they want to do an Ironman.
00:49:34
Speaker
And that is pure muscle endurance.
00:49:36
Speaker
The heart rate is down, the temperature, the core temperature is down, but you are mashing your legs over and over and over again.
00:49:44
Speaker
And that's giving you that muscle endurance later on.
00:49:47
Speaker
So maybe that's too much information, but those would be the three.
00:49:52
Speaker
I'll bet you that's a great primer for questions to come from our audience.
00:49:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:00
Speaker
Well, with that, why don't we do this?
00:50:01
Speaker
We've been, thank you for giving us a time to ask some prepared questions.
00:50:07
Speaker
We have a few more in the hopper if we need them.
00:50:09
Speaker
But we're at a point where I'd love to open this up to the audience.
00:50:12
Speaker
If you would like to ask a question to Bobby, just come off mic.
00:50:16
Speaker
We'll see you come off mic and we'll call on you or go ahead and put your question in the chat.
00:50:30
Speaker
Bobby.
00:50:31
Speaker
Hey, Mike.
00:50:33
Speaker
How do you help an athlete learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable?
00:50:39
Speaker
Very good.
00:50:39
Speaker
Great question.
00:50:41
Speaker
I learned that statement from Gwen Jorgensen's coach in the lead up to the 2016 Olympics.
00:50:48
Speaker
So being comfortable with the uncomfortable comes down to that anti-fragility question.
00:50:53
Speaker
So I've just sent out a post to my athletes.
00:50:59
Speaker
I have a newsletter that I send my athletes called Atleha, which is a Zulu word for thrive.
00:51:05
Speaker
And what I did was I told them to name their ego dark side of their brain.
00:51:13
Speaker
All right.
00:51:13
Speaker
Give it a name.
00:51:14
Speaker
Mine's name is Bender.
00:51:16
Speaker
All right.
00:51:17
Speaker
And so when things are starting to get difficult, Bender will speak up and start complaining and saying why we can't doing it.
00:51:26
Speaker
And so when you pick up this relationship in the second person or the third person, you say, Bender, listen, this is something I'm committed to.
00:51:35
Speaker
This is something I'm working on.
00:51:36
Speaker
This is the cost of doing business.
00:51:39
Speaker
All right.
00:51:40
Speaker
It's not a punishment.
00:51:41
Speaker
It's not anything.
00:51:43
Speaker
It's a voluntary situation.
00:51:45
Speaker
Let's work on getting used to this.
00:51:49
Speaker
Because the truth is, if you get used to this, you will be better and you will on the other side of this have something else you'll now have to get used to.
00:51:59
Speaker
And that's the Nike thing of there is no finish line, right?
00:52:02
Speaker
Because beyond that, there's always that and always that.
00:52:05
Speaker
And so when people get to contextualize what's uncomfortable for them and they can make it temporary and they can realize that it's a voluntary experience, then they have some facility to work with that.
00:52:17
Speaker
It's very much more a mental question than anything else.
00:52:21
Speaker
But from a brain physiology standpoint, it's also useful to,
00:52:26
Speaker
When you realize somebody is actually afraid or something like that, then they're in a part of their brain where they can't overcome that, right?
00:52:33
Speaker
They are fearful.
00:52:34
Speaker
And you have to bring them back.
00:52:36
Speaker
Like if you're working with somebody with PTSD or something like that, you have to bring them back to a part of their brain that is logical, wants to push forward, has a view to what they're trying to achieve from a success standpoint.
00:52:49
Speaker
And that should be very useful, Mike.
00:52:55
Speaker
Mike, thanks for the question.
00:52:56
Speaker
That's great.
00:52:58
Speaker
And thanks, Bobby, for the answer.
00:52:59
Speaker
All right.
00:53:00
Speaker
Anybody else?
00:53:04
Speaker
I know from talking to some of you that you do have questions.
00:53:08
Speaker
There's Carrie.
00:53:08
Speaker
All right.
00:53:09
Speaker
Go, Coach Carrie.
00:53:11
Speaker
I have, I,
00:53:14
Speaker
Got to do Ironman U, your workshop there, which was amazing.
00:53:19
Speaker
And I'm just curious for those of us who are getting more into some run coaching, what other resources do you find invaluable?
00:53:29
Speaker
Where would you direct us to find out more?
00:53:36
Speaker
You know, obviously, having written a few books, I would say here's a book, there's a book.
00:53:42
Speaker
But nowadays, the research is coming so thick and fast, right?
00:53:46
Speaker
And then you always have that danger between the researchers who don't want to say anything in terms of suggestions unless it's evidence-based and it's a longitudinal study with a lot of people in it, right?
00:54:01
Speaker
Right.
00:54:03
Speaker
that your best bet is somebody that you speak to consistently.
00:54:08
Speaker
You really want, you know, you saw in the Ironman U one that I did on running mechanics that I suggest a team, right?
00:54:19
Speaker
You've got a physician in there, a biomechanist in there, a PT in there, and the coach sits on top of that.
00:54:25
Speaker
So it's a team-based approach, all right?
00:54:28
Speaker
But the beauty with running is that
00:54:33
Speaker
Ever since research has started in running, the biggest force accelerator is consistency.
00:54:40
Speaker
So if you can run for an hour, but you can only do it once every four days, you're way better off running for 15 minutes four days in a row.
00:54:49
Speaker
All right.
00:54:50
Speaker
And creating that kind of consistency.
00:54:52
Speaker
So looking for resources is more in terms of somebody that shares your goals, is honest with you, keeps you on track,
00:55:02
Speaker
and is not afraid to go to expert resources if they're not an expert themselves.
00:55:07
Speaker
But very often somebody who cares is a better bet than somebody who knows.
00:55:18
Speaker
Coach Kerry, I'll lend you my book.
00:55:20
Speaker
It actually even has some flags in here.
00:55:23
Speaker
I'll take the flags out before I send it to you.
00:55:25
Speaker
I get all the test notes too.
00:55:27
Speaker
Notes from the margin.
00:55:31
Speaker
magical running by Bobby Pinky if you didn't gather.
00:55:37
Speaker
Anybody else, please?
00:55:39
Speaker
We've got some time.
00:55:40
Speaker
So this is a great opportunity.
00:55:41
Speaker
I have a question.
00:55:43
Speaker
Wonderful.
00:55:45
Speaker
All right.
00:55:45
Speaker
Let's go, Christy.
00:55:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:49
Speaker
Coach, thanks so much for taking time to speak with us.
00:55:52
Speaker
Every time I listen to you, I learn so much.
00:55:56
Speaker
And I'm pretty new to triathlon.
00:56:00
Speaker
I'm just getting ready to do my first 70.3 under the guidance of Coach Rich.
00:56:07
Speaker
And my question is, I use the TriDot app under the guidance of Coach Rich and the AI...
00:56:19
Speaker
has these runs that I go on.
00:56:22
Speaker
And if I do the run when I'm on my treadmill, I do not struggle with the sprints at all.
00:56:28
Speaker
I'm able to meet the AI requests of my abilities.
00:56:34
Speaker
But when I'm outside running and it wants me to sprint and it says I have these abilities, I really struggle to meet those same AI expectations.
00:56:44
Speaker
Are there drills or a way to really close that gap?
00:56:49
Speaker
It's an absolutely brilliant question.
00:56:52
Speaker
It is pretty multifaceted though, right?
00:56:55
Speaker
So again, back to this concept that when you are on a treadmill, the treadmill is moving and you are stationary, right?
00:57:05
Speaker
You're moving on the treadmill.
00:57:07
Speaker
So there's a slight mechanical difference.
00:57:09
Speaker
So when you're on a treadmill, the first thing that I recommend to get your circumstances a little bit more real world is to jack that treadmill's elevation up by about 1%.
00:57:21
Speaker
And that will mimic what's going on outside on the road a little bit better.
00:57:26
Speaker
The other part is we've actually alluded to that when you run outside,
00:57:30
Speaker
balance becomes more of an issue.
00:57:32
Speaker
You don't have those two railings on either side of you.
00:57:35
Speaker
If you're new to the sport, a large part of your brain's work is going to be going towards keeping you safe.
00:57:43
Speaker
So you tend to be a little upright.
00:57:44
Speaker
If there's low light, you tend to step a little higher.
00:57:48
Speaker
All right.
00:57:48
Speaker
And you're just a little bit more cautious of your surroundings and all that kind of thing.
00:57:52
Speaker
And so you can't bring the same level of unified focus to the workout,
00:57:58
Speaker
And it takes a little bit of time and experience to be able to do that.
00:58:02
Speaker
So the treadmill can sometimes mislead you in terms of your real world ability, right?
00:58:11
Speaker
But stick with it, learn and become experienced outside.
00:58:16
Speaker
And, you know, start off on a track or something like that, that has a perfectly uniform surface where your balance is better, where your traction is better.
00:58:23
Speaker
Remember, if you're running outside on a dirt road, it can be as much as 10% slower than running on an asphalt road.
00:58:31
Speaker
So all of those things come into play, Christy.
00:58:37
Speaker
All right, we have some questions from the audience in the chat.
00:58:41
Speaker
I'll read Mike Levinson's first.
00:58:43
Speaker
I know in the Ironman U course, you mentioned stride power meters.
00:58:47
Speaker
How do you find that using stride has helped your athletes today over a few years ago before stride was available?
00:58:54
Speaker
I'm a longtime stride user.
00:58:57
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:58:59
Speaker
Mike, that's a really, really good question.
00:59:02
Speaker
So we know that power on the bike came about as a result of momentum.
00:59:08
Speaker
You're just flying down the hill using almost no power at all.
00:59:12
Speaker
Gravity is hurtling you down the road.
00:59:14
Speaker
And then similarly, when you're going up the road, you have that momentum.
00:59:19
Speaker
situation where you had that decoupling right so your heart rate keeps going up and your power starts to fade and you start going slower on the downhill and heart rate becomes less of a useful tool so they came up with power the only difference is that power was from a strain gauge it was an actual power number we don't have an axle that we're working with on the run so they had to come up with an algorithm
00:59:44
Speaker
Stride was the best when they came up with not only a gyroscope and an accelerometer, but they put a magnetometer in there as well.
00:59:51
Speaker
So the data is step to step.
00:59:53
Speaker
So it's very good data.
00:59:55
Speaker
But the big thing about Stride, and we were going to deal with it later, but I took too long to answer my question, is that it's an external output number.
01:00:05
Speaker
it's not like a rev counter, like a heart or an effort, right?
01:00:09
Speaker
It's actually what are you putting out?
01:00:11
Speaker
So if you're running seven minute miles on the asphalt and you're running 7.7 miles, I mean, 6.3 miles on the gravel, your power is the same.
01:00:24
Speaker
You're getting the same workout.
01:00:25
Speaker
There's a couple of mechanical differences because you're going slower, but generally speaking, it's so much easier to measure your work.
01:00:32
Speaker
And then with an electronic anemometer, you can go out and do a run into a slight wind that you might not even have noticed.
01:00:41
Speaker
And suddenly it pops up and you had a significant little headwind you were running into.
01:00:47
Speaker
And it can help you better quantify your data.
01:00:49
Speaker
So it's just another...
01:00:52
Speaker
very accurate, very useful microscope that shows you a little bit more detail or a lot more detail about what you're doing.
01:01:00
Speaker
And especially in our world where efficiency is at play, it's really difficult to figure out how efficient you are mechanically if you don't have something like a Stripe device.
01:01:13
Speaker
And if you don't mind, I'm just going to add, Chester, I'm going to ask both of your questions.
01:01:19
Speaker
We're going to ask your second one first.
01:01:21
Speaker
As a follow-up to that, Chester has been a single stride user, single pod for many years.
01:01:29
Speaker
Is the duo worth it?
01:01:31
Speaker
Do you get additional benefits and additional data that really help make a difference?
01:01:37
Speaker
I would definitely say so, especially if you tend to struggle with injuries or you tend to be...
01:01:44
Speaker
I don't even want to use that word anymore because it's a derogatory word, but you tend to be a little less coordinated, right?
01:01:51
Speaker
And you're trying to discover, you know, is there asymmetry that you should be paying attention to?
01:01:57
Speaker
So the duo is very, very useful.
01:02:01
Speaker
It's as useful as it is in swimming to have those parts in the palms of your hands that show your pathway, right?
01:02:08
Speaker
So you can see from those two boat shapes where you're viewing the data from the two stride parts from the top, you can see, oh, one leg's going out a little wider, maybe not flexing that leg.
01:02:21
Speaker
It's not coming around as much as I should.
01:02:24
Speaker
Should I be working on hip stabilization?
01:02:26
Speaker
Should I be working on stabilizing my groin, my medial hamstrings?
01:02:30
Speaker
It is very, very useful in that way.
01:02:32
Speaker
So the single pod is very good from a physiological standpoint.
01:02:37
Speaker
It almost does everything you need.
01:02:39
Speaker
But from a mechanical standpoint, the duo is not a bad idea at all.
01:02:44
Speaker
It really gives you some extra data to look at, right?
01:02:48
Speaker
And like in all of skills, having a visual of how you move can be really, really useful.
01:02:59
Speaker
Thank you, Chester, for that one.
01:03:01
Speaker
And then a follow-up also from Chester, any tips on helping athletes keep their heart rate in zone two on their easy run?
01:03:09
Speaker
And I have a follow-up to that, which is, and how long does it really take to start to see the benefits of that zone two heart rate running if you're consistent with it?
01:03:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:22
Speaker
Two very, very good questions, right?
01:03:24
Speaker
So,
01:03:27
Speaker
when you feel that you are drifting out of zone two and getting into that gray zone, it's important to discuss what zone three is, right?
01:03:37
Speaker
And zone three is not a physiological number.
01:03:40
Speaker
It's just a space between the top end of your zone two and the bottom end of your zone four, right?
01:03:47
Speaker
And so zone four is very, very clearly delineated by an elbow and you've got
01:03:54
Speaker
and zone two is actually called LT zone four is actually called LT LT two, as opposed to LT one, which is tempo human beings from a mechanical standpoint want to actually run in zone three.
01:04:09
Speaker
They need the speed.
01:04:10
Speaker
They need the rhythm.
01:04:11
Speaker
They need the resistance of effort to work against.
01:04:15
Speaker
So zone two is actually an acquired skill.
01:04:18
Speaker
And,
01:04:19
Speaker
And it takes a while to get used to zone two.
01:04:22
Speaker
Now, the big bugbear for zone two, especially in triathlon, is cardiac drift.
01:04:29
Speaker
As your core temperature goes up, so your heart rate goes up.
01:04:33
Speaker
But your heart rate is not going up to support your physical activity.
01:04:37
Speaker
Your heart rate is going up to keep you cool.
01:04:40
Speaker
It's shunting blood to the surface of your skin.
01:04:43
Speaker
So on a hot day, your heart rate might be 10, 12 beats higher for the same performance as what it would be on a cool day if it was 55 versus 75, for example.
01:04:52
Speaker
All right.
01:04:53
Speaker
So the thing to do is if you're really doing zone two training is just try and slow down.
01:05:00
Speaker
Try just keep accommodating.
01:05:03
Speaker
for zone two, but don't drift into zone three.
01:05:06
Speaker
And a good way to keep up a good pace is to just use the run-walk method.
01:05:11
Speaker
Because the run-walk method just keeps dropping that heart rate, keeps your average in zone two.
01:05:16
Speaker
It's just a much easier thing to do.
01:05:19
Speaker
Now, the last thing is, what does zone do primarily?
01:05:23
Speaker
Oh, I was looking at Pogacar the other day, and he was saying that when he's fresh,
01:05:29
Speaker
His zone two is like 145 to 155.
01:05:35
Speaker
And when he's fatigued, it's 155 to 165.
01:05:38
Speaker
Right.
01:05:39
Speaker
So it's a pretty big window for his zone two.
01:05:42
Speaker
Right.
01:05:42
Speaker
And they're working that off lactate.
01:05:45
Speaker
So.
01:05:47
Speaker
The primary reason why you do zone two, right, is to develop the size of your mitochondria.
01:05:53
Speaker
There's even some research that suggests you might be increasing the number of mitochondria that you have, because as we get older, they decrease in size and we lose them, right?
01:06:04
Speaker
So that is a physiological process, right?
01:06:07
Speaker
But zone two has a lot of neuromuscular connections as well, right?
01:06:12
Speaker
If you're doing a movement, that's an easy movement, but you're doing it for a very, very long time, it's still going to have that muscle endurance fatigue, it's going to be neurologically challenging, right?
01:06:22
Speaker
So there's a multiplicity of benefits that you get from zone two.
01:06:26
Speaker
And if you're doing proper zone two training, you will know that zone two is working because your zone two velocity is going to go up.
01:06:38
Speaker
you're going to gradually go up.
01:06:39
Speaker
But I would say probably in the region of about at least six weeks, but probably more like three months before you're going to get these really big benefits, right?
01:06:50
Speaker
I like to draw a distinction between
01:06:53
Speaker
endurance block of training versus your base training.
01:06:57
Speaker
And your base training is your lifetime accrual of endurance work, whereas your endurance block is this current six weeks that you're working on.
01:07:07
Speaker
So your zone two over years is what's your most beneficial.
01:07:12
Speaker
It's back to that thing that I told you, Caroline, about.
01:07:16
Speaker
It's about consistency.
01:07:17
Speaker
You know, if you...
01:07:19
Speaker
Whatever environment you can find that you can be consistent in both internally and externally, that's the best environment for you.
01:07:30
Speaker
Well, that was fabulous, Bobby.
01:07:32
Speaker
We have a couple more questions and then we will wrap up.
01:07:35
Speaker
And this is coming to you from Coach Carey.
01:07:37
Speaker
There has been so much development within our sport from new technologies to better understanding of human physiology to new events and series.
01:07:46
Speaker
Can you share what new development or developments that you are most excited about right now?
01:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think probably the power thing.
01:07:56
Speaker
I know power has been around for a long time, but as it becomes more refined, I really like that new development.
01:08:03
Speaker
I also like, and it's much more subtle, I like the fact that elite athletes have known this for a long time, but that age groupers are now starting to realize that you need mental skills training over and above performance psychology, right?
01:08:19
Speaker
And over above normal psychology.
01:08:21
Speaker
Mental skills training is an edge.
01:08:24
Speaker
It's to help you get more out of yourself.
01:08:27
Speaker
It's mental skills, training, and sports psychology is not because you are a quitter or because you're a choker or whatever the case might be.
01:08:37
Speaker
No, it's a positive thing.
01:08:39
Speaker
Every pro athlete uses that in some way, shape, or form because they want an edge, not because they think there's anything wrong with them.
01:08:47
Speaker
And then talking about a series, I like the fact that we move to shorter stuff.
01:08:54
Speaker
So I like Super League and I like arena games and I like those kind of things, right?
01:08:59
Speaker
Because they are more athletic and they're more consumable, right?
01:09:06
Speaker
And I feel that with the longer events, somebody comes to me and they say they want to train for a half marathon or they want to train for a 70.3 or they want to train for Olympic distance triathlon or something like that.
01:09:17
Speaker
I'm going, great.
01:09:18
Speaker
This is going to be physiologically very beneficial to you.
01:09:23
Speaker
It's going to really help you.
01:09:24
Speaker
No, but I want to do an Ironman or I want to do a marathon.
01:09:27
Speaker
I'm going, okay, we can do that too.
01:09:29
Speaker
But I want you to know that that's not that beneficial for you.
01:09:33
Speaker
That's for your soul.
01:09:35
Speaker
That's for your spirit.
01:09:36
Speaker
You go and do these really, really long races.
01:09:40
Speaker
Because you want to go to another realm.
01:09:42
Speaker
You want to exercise the spiritual.
01:09:44
Speaker
You want to do this for your soul.
01:09:46
Speaker
They are generally too hard.
01:09:48
Speaker
There's a reason why the statistic for Ironman races is most people are one-timers.
01:09:55
Speaker
They train to do that once and then they're done.
01:09:57
Speaker
They'll go back to 70.3s or something else.
01:10:00
Speaker
But there's very few people that do two Ironman races a year for 20 years.
01:10:06
Speaker
That doesn't happen.
01:10:07
Speaker
But you get a lot of people to run 10Ks forever.
01:10:11
Speaker
So, you know, just for that reason.
01:10:13
Speaker
So...
01:10:15
Speaker
I just think that things like T100 and draft legal sprint races and those things should come to the average populace.
01:10:26
Speaker
Just the simple reason that I will spend $1,500 and then $2,000 on a plane ticket to go to an Ironman.
01:10:34
Speaker
But don't ask me to spend that kind of money to go down to Florida in the middle of the winter to run a 5K.
01:10:40
Speaker
That's just a waste of money.
01:10:42
Speaker
It's actually not.
01:10:44
Speaker
It's actually a really good idea, right?
01:10:46
Speaker
So, but I've come, I come from track, you know, so to me, we've got to, we've got to think like that too.
01:10:52
Speaker
But, you know, this park run is, is, is a proof of that, right?
01:10:56
Speaker
You have hundreds and thousands of people all over the world showing up in every shape, size, color, and form and running a 5k in a park and getting their time recorded.
01:11:06
Speaker
You know, I think that's just brilliant for, for humanity.
01:11:12
Speaker
Oh, yes.
01:11:14
Speaker
So much wisdom in this conversation, Bobby.
01:11:16
Speaker
Thank you so, so much.
01:11:18
Speaker
Rich, do you think we have time for one more or we want to close this up?
01:11:22
Speaker
Let me ask Coach Bobby.
01:11:23
Speaker
We have one more question.
01:11:25
Speaker
This does not look like a short answer question.
01:11:28
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:28
Speaker
Do you want me to read it to you and then give it a shot?
01:11:32
Speaker
I think I've actually, is the one about the hills?
01:11:35
Speaker
This is the one I'm struggling with high activation of my calf muscles when running hills.
01:11:40
Speaker
Yep.
01:11:42
Speaker
This athlete has exertion compartmental syndrome and is looking for a way to maybe relieve that in their running form.
01:11:51
Speaker
That would kill me as a coach if I can't have access to heels.
01:11:56
Speaker
So, yeah, a couple of quick things, right?
01:11:59
Speaker
Have a look at the size of your posterior tip and have a look at the size of your gastrop.
01:12:06
Speaker
and see if there's some way in how you perambulate that you can decrease the size of those tissues, right?
01:12:13
Speaker
Because you'll notice that elite distance runners and elite sprinters, they have very small gastrocs and they have very big solei, all right?
01:12:23
Speaker
So they have big soleus muscles.
01:12:25
Speaker
And so if there's not enough room in there, even if you get massage and so on, which by the way does help,
01:12:34
Speaker
it can become a problem.
01:12:36
Speaker
You don't want to lose the benefit of heels.
01:12:39
Speaker
If you can do the same work on the flat and not have the same experience in your calves, right?
01:12:45
Speaker
And it also depends where it is.
01:12:47
Speaker
If it's just below the gastroc, then that's soleus.
01:12:50
Speaker
But if it's higher up towards your knee, all right, and you're feeling that compartment syndrome in the division of your gastroc,
01:12:57
Speaker
then you've got to really pay attention.
01:12:59
Speaker
It's a pretty serious condition, right?
01:13:00
Speaker
And there are release surgeries and things like that, but there's also quite a lot of rehabilitative, you know, safe level one work that you can do to improve that.
01:13:12
Speaker
So bring the incline of the hill down, stay on the flats.
01:13:16
Speaker
Also look that you're not running up too high on your toes because your calves are just not quite long enough.
01:13:22
Speaker
Or you could also have some ankle blocks, right?
01:13:24
Speaker
And so now your calves are overworking to protect your ankles.
01:13:29
Speaker
So do a little bit of that ankle block work where you're putting a band across the front of your foot, but definitely get with a PT that knows what they're doing and work on that.
01:13:37
Speaker
I would not want you to lose heels as part of your regimen.
01:13:43
Speaker
So thank you very much.
01:13:44
Speaker
A quick shout out, Coach Rich.
01:13:47
Speaker
Thank you for your coaching.
01:13:50
Speaker
And for those that don't know, I went from not running a few years ago, barely able to walk.
01:13:56
Speaker
I've had multiple surgeries to release compartment syndrome in all my extremities.
01:14:01
Speaker
And in the past six months, I've gone from not running at all to today I ran seven and a half miles to the Appalachian Mountains up and downhill.
01:14:09
Speaker
So thank you.
01:14:11
Speaker
Thank you very much.
01:14:12
Speaker
That's amazing, Aaron.
01:14:13
Speaker
Wonderful.
01:14:14
Speaker
Thanks for saying that.
01:14:18
Speaker
Coach Hapley, you want to close this out?
01:14:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:20
Speaker
I mean, I don't know how to follow up Aaron, but that was amazing.
01:14:24
Speaker
Coach Bobby, you are just fantastic.
01:14:27
Speaker
This was a masterclass.
01:14:28
Speaker
I mean, we ran the gamut from mental training to running specific to the things individual athletes are experiencing.
01:14:37
Speaker
And we just want to say thank you so much for your time, your wisdom, expertise.
01:14:43
Speaker
You are just a treasure.
01:14:44
Speaker
So thank you so much.
01:14:46
Speaker
You're all very, very welcome.
01:14:48
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me.
01:14:49
Speaker
It was a pleasure.
01:14:52
Speaker
All right.
01:14:52
Speaker
Well, April, we've, we've talked about this, uh, since that webinar, this was incredible.
01:14:58
Speaker
Uh, so much great stuff.
01:14:59
Speaker
I talked to my athletes afterwards, then ones that were, you know, in attendance that I had meetings with this week, all got some amazing things from it.
01:15:08
Speaker
And what's interesting is the psychology, the, the, the mental side of running that he addresses and about just training, right.
01:15:16
Speaker
Just, you know, and how to live really resonated with a lot of people.
01:15:20
Speaker
Yes, I felt like the wisdom that he shared in just that one webinar could fill an entire library.
01:15:28
Speaker
I walked away with so many good things from that conversation.
01:15:31
Speaker
And I really appreciated the great questions that our audience put out there too.
01:15:35
Speaker
It was just really an open learning environment that was also not intimidating.
01:15:44
Speaker
And I think those conversations can be
01:15:47
Speaker
intimidating when you hear from people that have achieved such levels of success, but Bobby just does such a great job of breaking it down so everybody can take something away.
01:15:57
Speaker
Well said.
01:15:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:59
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
01:16:01
Speaker
Well, coach Bobby, thank you for, I always feel a little awkward calling him coach Bobby now, knowing that's not his real name.
01:16:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:11
Speaker
Good point.
01:16:12
Speaker
His two truths and a lie.
01:16:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:15
Speaker
Anyway, Coach Bobby, pleasure having you with us.
01:16:17
Speaker
Can't wait to see you in a couple of weeks or in a week, actually.
01:16:20
Speaker
Golly, it's going to be before we know it.
01:16:21
Speaker
Wow.
01:16:22
Speaker
I know it's flying by, Rich.
01:16:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:25
Speaker
All right.
01:16:26
Speaker
Okay, now we're ready to get into our Get Gritty.
01:16:29
Speaker
And I want to give Laura a big shout out for this.
01:16:32
Speaker
She hit us up on Instagram and shared a meme of a really encouraging, inspiring couple of quotes.
01:16:40
Speaker
I'm going to kind of deconstruct here.
01:16:43
Speaker
But it's a riff off of one of our Get Gritties a couple weeks ago where I talked about just getting started.
01:16:50
Speaker
And I love this specifically because so many people wait, right?
01:16:57
Speaker
They wait for the perfect opportunity, the perfect time.
01:17:01
Speaker
They wait for the perfect paycheck to start.
01:17:05
Speaker
And basically what we're going to be just reemphasizing here is that you can go all in before you feel ready.
01:17:13
Speaker
And most people never discover how great they truly are, not because of a lack of talent, but because they never show up with their full effort.
01:17:20
Speaker
They are stuck.
01:17:22
Speaker
They stay in neutral.
01:17:23
Speaker
They either hedge, they wait until they feel perfectly confident, perfectly prepared, or perfectly safe.
01:17:28
Speaker
So the meme that Laura shared with me is by a gentleman named Steve Magnus.
01:17:36
Speaker
I haven't had a chance to really look into him, but it looks like he might be a coach, but it reads that way.
01:17:41
Speaker
So his...
01:17:42
Speaker
What he shared was fear trucks us into waiting until we feel quote unquote ready.
01:17:48
Speaker
But readiness isn't a prerequisite for growth.
01:17:52
Speaker
It's a result.
01:17:52
Speaker
Oof.
01:17:54
Speaker
Research on self-efficacy shows that belief follows action, not the other way around.
01:17:59
Speaker
So you get the belief after you start, not before.
01:18:03
Speaker
You build confidence by doing, not by overthinking.
01:18:06
Speaker
The reps come first, the mindset follows.
01:18:09
Speaker
So I really love that.
01:18:10
Speaker
I think that absolutely captures the spirit of grit to greatness.
01:18:14
Speaker
When we talk about getting started and getting gritty, it's okay to fail.
01:18:18
Speaker
It's okay to feel scared.
01:18:20
Speaker
It's okay to be uncomfortable.
01:18:21
Speaker
That's part of that growth process.
01:18:23
Speaker
And where we want you to live, folks, as athletes, as human beings, is not in the comfort zone, but what we call the courage zone.
01:18:32
Speaker
Having the courage to reach out and understand that you're learning, that you're growing.
01:18:37
Speaker
Coach Rich and I grew this last weekend on putting together our first camp.
01:18:41
Speaker
Like, I mean, seriously, one thing, you know, with what you shared about the shoes, Rich, is like, you didn't just like, oh, crap, I can't go on this ride.
01:18:49
Speaker
You're like, no, I'm just going to do it in my running shoes.
01:18:51
Speaker
You didn't make an excuse.
01:18:54
Speaker
You went full forward into, hey, this is going to be a good challenge.
01:19:00
Speaker
That's right.
01:19:02
Speaker
Right?
01:19:03
Speaker
And trying to keep up with our athletes.
01:19:04
Speaker
Yes.
01:19:05
Speaker
And I think that, again, just shows the greatness that can come from being resilient.
01:19:12
Speaker
So confidence doesn't come first.
01:19:15
Speaker
Action does.
01:19:16
Speaker
You don't build belief by just standing still or in neutral.
01:19:19
Speaker
You build it through movement, through showing up, pushing past the urge to hold back and choosing effort over ego.
01:19:27
Speaker
Wow.
01:19:27
Speaker
That was a perfect example of that, Rich.
01:19:30
Speaker
Choose effort over ego.
01:19:32
Speaker
So this week, forget perfect, forget ready.
01:19:35
Speaker
Just show up fully.
01:19:37
Speaker
Give it a real go, not halfway, not with excuses, but with honest effort.
01:19:41
Speaker
That's how grit is forged.
01:19:43
Speaker
That's how potential is revealed.
01:19:45
Speaker
You don't need to be fearless.
01:19:46
Speaker
You just need to be there.
01:19:48
Speaker
Thank you, Laura, for that share.
01:19:50
Speaker
Thank you, Laura.
01:19:51
Speaker
That was amazing.
01:19:52
Speaker
And I think that this should be something we touch on regularly and it's not just about getting started.
01:19:59
Speaker
Sometimes it's also about giving yourself permission to get past your perceived limits.
01:20:05
Speaker
Like give yourself permission to take it to the next level even.
01:20:10
Speaker
And I think the same concept applies, right?
01:20:13
Speaker
We kind of set these upper limits for ourselves of happiness, success, whatever.
01:20:19
Speaker
You know, that like we only deserve so much, right?
01:20:21
Speaker
Right.
01:20:22
Speaker
Who do you think you are for thinking you deserve that much more?
01:20:26
Speaker
Don't you have enough?
01:20:27
Speaker
Right.
01:20:27
Speaker
I've heard that before.
01:20:29
Speaker
And I, yeah.
01:20:30
Speaker
The reverse flip script is who are you not to?
01:20:33
Speaker
Exactly, Rich.
01:20:35
Speaker
Right.
01:20:36
Speaker
So exactly.
01:20:37
Speaker
Oh, chills.
01:20:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:20:39
Speaker
Yes.
01:20:40
Speaker
Good stuff.
01:20:41
Speaker
Okay.
01:20:42
Speaker
More to come on that topic for sure.
01:20:44
Speaker
All right.
01:20:45
Speaker
I want to, I want to share with you the, this is my tried out workout of the week.
01:20:50
Speaker
This is actually kind of a fun one.
01:20:51
Speaker
This is if you're doing short course,
01:20:54
Speaker
You're on the TriDot, you're on a TriDot program and you're doing short course and you're doing your race rehearsal for your short course.
01:21:00
Speaker
This is different than 70.3 and Ironman.
01:21:04
Speaker
You're going to get this bike run bricks workout.
01:21:08
Speaker
So this session is best, you know, it can be done on a trainer.
01:21:13
Speaker
Or you can do it if you have the right setup in an outside environment.
01:21:17
Speaker
Fortunately, tomorrow, we have the perfect setup for this because we have a camp.
01:21:22
Speaker
We're going to have some bike racks to work with.
01:21:24
Speaker
We're going to have people there to kind of just, you know, watch our stuff and that sort of thing.
01:21:29
Speaker
Here's how you do it.
01:21:32
Speaker
You do a warmup.
01:21:34
Speaker
on your bike, 10 minutes in zone two with three by 30 seconds, uh, spin ups, and then three by one minute in zone four, just to get the lactate clearing going in your main set.
01:21:46
Speaker
You're going to be doing some zone two, you know, just kind of getting started.
01:21:50
Speaker
But once you're all warmed up, the idea here is to do two by six minute on the bike and each of these, sorry, you're doing two of these six minutes on the bike, four minutes on the run, three minutes recovery.
01:22:03
Speaker
You can even extend this.
01:22:05
Speaker
You can make this three by six, you know, three of these or four of these.
01:22:08
Speaker
But in this case, what we're trying to do is get some reps in of what it's like to be out on the bike, riding into transition and doing that bike to run transition and doing it as fast as you can.
01:22:20
Speaker
We are going to be setting up our transition tomorrow full, full stop, just like a race.
Race Transition Training
01:22:26
Speaker
And we are going to be timing folks and training people to get through that transition as fast as possible.
01:22:32
Speaker
So you're doing it just like you would in a race.
01:22:34
Speaker
You're coming into transition at the same speed.
01:22:36
Speaker
You're dismounting the bike.
01:22:38
Speaker
You're running to the rack, your bike, you're racking your bike, you're transitioning into your run close and you're getting the heck out of the, you're running for the exit.
01:22:46
Speaker
And then you're going off for a four minute run.
01:22:48
Speaker
And then you come back and you get out and you do it again.
01:22:51
Speaker
You go riding down the street for six minutes on the bike.
01:22:53
Speaker
You come back in hot as a $2 pistol and you transition back onto the run again.
01:23:02
Speaker
You know, in that first minute on the bike, you're just trying to establish a rhythm, getting your feet in your shoes, riding it at race pace, whatever that is.
01:23:09
Speaker
For me, it's going to be upper zone three, lower zone four, um, 90 plus RPMs, final one minute sharp to prepare for the run, shift into an easier gear, stretch out the back and the calves, get your feet unclipped or out of your shoes and do your, do just the best exercise.
01:23:28
Speaker
most graceful dismount you possibly can before you get to the dismount line.
01:23:32
Speaker
And then in that run, do the first minute, find form and rhythm.
01:23:35
Speaker
Do not exceed race pace.
01:23:38
Speaker
Then find your race pace.
01:23:39
Speaker
And then for that final minute, build to a fast finish pace.
01:23:43
Speaker
Visualize the finish shoot.
01:23:45
Speaker
How about that?
01:23:47
Speaker
I like that.
01:23:47
Speaker
I really, I'm excited about that.
01:23:49
Speaker
I wanted to tell you too, that last week when we were doing the demonstrations for open water swim, I learned so much from you and just thinking about what this is going to bring.
01:24:00
Speaker
I'm, I'm, I'm very much looking forward to putting more tools in my tool belt on this transition focus.
01:24:07
Speaker
So I'm excited for this.
01:24:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:10
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you, it's going to be, we're going to have a blast.
01:24:13
Speaker
I just can't, it's going to be like recess for kids or recess for tomorrow.
01:24:18
Speaker
So.
01:24:20
Speaker
Playtime.
01:24:20
Speaker
Playtime.
01:24:22
Speaker
I love it.
01:24:23
Speaker
All right.
Q&A Fun Segment
01:24:24
Speaker
Let's move into our fun segment.
01:24:26
Speaker
And this is really a quick hit Q&A spotlight.
01:24:29
Speaker
I'm going to ask you the questions to get the answers that our audience didn't need.
01:24:34
Speaker
I didn't know they needed rich.
01:24:37
Speaker
No splits, no wattage, just a glimpse into personality behind the coaches.
01:24:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:42
Speaker
So we're going to kick it off with four quick hit questions to get to know each other just a little bit better.
01:24:48
Speaker
So my first question for you, Rich, is what are three words you would use to describe yourself?
01:24:56
Speaker
I'm going to try to be as succinct as I can.
01:24:58
Speaker
I'm a maximizer, I think.
01:25:00
Speaker
One of the things I always try to do, I always try to pack as much as I can into every day.
01:25:06
Speaker
And I think that this is, actually, you know what?
01:25:08
Speaker
This is a lot like the daily stoic today.
01:25:15
Speaker
I just want to live as many lives as I can in the life I've got, if that makes sense.
01:25:19
Speaker
So that's one word, maximizer.
01:25:22
Speaker
Second would be into it.
01:25:25
Speaker
And what I mean by that is, I think I sometimes, people think I'm really intense.
01:25:33
Speaker
And I've had that called out to me.
01:25:35
Speaker
I'm just really into it.
01:25:37
Speaker
When I'm really into it, I might come across as, why are you staring at me?
01:25:42
Speaker
It's just because I'm really into it.
01:25:44
Speaker
And then the third is, golly, I just want to have...
01:25:49
Speaker
as much fun as I can, you know?
01:25:52
Speaker
And so sometimes I might, you know, just not, maybe I don't take things seriously enough.
01:25:56
Speaker
I don't know, but I'm really trying to go through life, just have as much fun as I can.
01:26:00
Speaker
Good man.
01:26:02
Speaker
I think that describes you so well.
01:26:04
Speaker
Maximizer for sure.
01:26:07
Speaker
I would say that you are keenly curious and the intuit to me strikes me as someone who wants to lean in and learn more, which I love.
01:26:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:18
Speaker
And fun is absolutely your personality.
01:26:22
Speaker
I think that's why you and I get along so well is that we look for things to laugh
Rich's Self-Description
01:26:27
Speaker
at.
01:26:27
Speaker
We look at for the light side.
01:26:28
Speaker
It doesn't always have to be go, go, go, right?
01:26:32
Speaker
Or top, top, top.
01:26:33
Speaker
I don't know how else to say it other than it's nice to be able to just laugh at each other.
01:26:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:39
Speaker
So you got to tell us what are your three words.
01:26:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:42
Speaker
Yes.
01:26:42
Speaker
So I'm a quirky individual, Rich.
01:26:46
Speaker
I like to be as authentic as possible.
01:26:51
Speaker
And I try to be as wholehearted as possible.
01:26:54
Speaker
So I think those combination of those words...
01:26:57
Speaker
really describes me.
01:27:00
Speaker
One of my core values is wholeheartedness.
01:27:02
Speaker
And I feel like if I cannot be my true self, I feel like I'm being held under a bush, right?
01:27:11
Speaker
I can't shine my light.
01:27:13
Speaker
So I don't want to be in those environments.
01:27:16
Speaker
I'm definitely a deep thinker.
01:27:21
Speaker
An analyzer, sometimes to my own detriment, try not to do that too often.
01:27:27
Speaker
But I can get caught up in the thoughts about things and analyze, overanalyze.
01:27:35
Speaker
That's why having fun is so important.
01:27:37
Speaker
Yes.
01:27:38
Speaker
It's a counterbalance.
01:27:40
Speaker
Yes.
01:27:40
Speaker
Yes.
01:27:42
Speaker
And then I think creative.
01:27:44
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:27:45
Speaker
Amen.
01:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, you are.
01:27:49
Speaker
Thank you.
01:27:50
Speaker
That's why I'm waiting for you to read that book.
01:27:53
Speaker
Yes.
01:27:53
Speaker
How to Fly a Horse.
01:27:54
Speaker
It's going to be, it's like.
01:27:56
Speaker
It's on my list right after AI.
01:27:58
Speaker
It's on my list.
01:27:59
Speaker
Like it's, it's, it's literally there pending.
01:28:02
Speaker
I cannot wait to read it.
01:28:04
Speaker
We just keep throwing more and more
Animal Choices Discussion
01:28:06
Speaker
books at each other.
01:28:06
Speaker
I know.
01:28:06
Speaker
Yeah, you're welcome.
01:28:08
Speaker
Every time Rich comes over to visit, I give him like at least a book or if not two or three.
01:28:14
Speaker
And I've got another great one.
01:28:16
Speaker
This was actually a recommendation.
01:28:18
Speaker
Caroline Young and I are on a book club, a little personal book club here too.
01:28:21
Speaker
The Big Leap.
01:28:23
Speaker
Ooh.
01:28:24
Speaker
I don't know if you've read that one.
01:28:25
Speaker
I'm going to send it to you.
01:28:25
Speaker
The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks.
01:28:27
Speaker
I've already started it.
01:28:30
Speaker
It's going to be a good one.
01:28:31
Speaker
There's going to be some stuff that comes out of this one.
01:28:34
Speaker
Okay, good.
01:28:34
Speaker
I'm looking forward to that.
01:28:36
Speaker
Next question.
01:28:38
Speaker
If you could be any animal, what would you be and why?
01:28:42
Speaker
Yeah, this is a tough one.
01:28:44
Speaker
I love birds.
01:28:51
Speaker
I think birds blow me away and owls in particular.
01:28:56
Speaker
I love owls.
01:28:57
Speaker
I think owls are just so darn interesting.
01:29:00
Speaker
So for me, it would be an owl, even though that means I had to eat mice and stuff like that.
01:29:04
Speaker
It's okay.
01:29:06
Speaker
It would be an owl because of their...
01:29:09
Speaker
wisdom, vision, and majesticness and beauty.
01:29:15
Speaker
But they're majestic and beautiful without being, I don't know, too, I don't know.
01:29:24
Speaker
Audacious.
01:29:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:25
Speaker
Without being too audacious.
01:29:26
Speaker
That's it.
01:29:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:29:28
Speaker
Perfect.
01:29:28
Speaker
Way to put your finger on that and finish my sentence.
01:29:32
Speaker
Yeah, I like that, Rich.
01:29:34
Speaker
Owls are really unique too because they can fly without making a sound.
01:29:39
Speaker
They are so stealthy.
01:29:41
Speaker
Their feathers are just designed in such a way that they do these studies with them in a room with microphones all over the room.
01:29:50
Speaker
There's no sound wave.
01:29:53
Speaker
But this is also why some of them can't fly in the rain.
01:29:57
Speaker
They get wet and they can't.
01:29:59
Speaker
Yeah, they can't.
01:30:00
Speaker
So they can actually starve if there's like a multi-day rain because they can't fly and hunt.
01:30:07
Speaker
Crazy.
01:30:08
Speaker
Well, I went with the bird as well.
01:30:11
Speaker
I went with the raven.
01:30:13
Speaker
A raven?
01:30:14
Speaker
Oh, very intelligent.
01:30:15
Speaker
Yes.
01:30:16
Speaker
And having lived in Alaska for seven years and that just being one of the birds I would see daily and how you can form a pretty cool relationship with ravens.
01:30:28
Speaker
They are.
01:30:28
Speaker
I mean, Peter used to have a, they're called a harbinger.
01:30:32
Speaker
You'd have a harbinger of ravens hanging out because he would slip them like hard boiled eggs.
01:30:38
Speaker
They would scoop them up and take them back fully in their beaks.
01:30:43
Speaker
And like he'd slip them some peanut shells and all kinds of stuff.
01:30:47
Speaker
And he would, he, he was the raven man.
01:30:51
Speaker
That is really cool.
01:30:53
Speaker
Yes.
01:30:53
Speaker
And they will, they will, they will befriend you and like they'll become a part of their little secret club.
01:30:59
Speaker
So it'll bring you stuff.
01:31:00
Speaker
I've heard.
01:31:01
Speaker
Yeah.
01:31:01
Speaker
Yes.
01:31:01
Speaker
And that's what he was trying to do.
01:31:03
Speaker
He was trying to create such a connection that they bring him something.
01:31:06
Speaker
He didn't quite get there yet, but yes.
01:31:09
Speaker
So cool.
01:31:11
Speaker
Love that.
01:31:12
Speaker
All right.
01:31:13
Speaker
Let's do, let's do two more.
Motivation and Media Discussion
01:31:15
Speaker
Okay.
01:31:16
Speaker
What's your favorite word of the year?
01:31:17
Speaker
Something that's been your theme or motivation.
01:31:20
Speaker
I'm tempted to use the word courage, but I'm not sure that's the word anymore.
01:31:26
Speaker
Maybe for me, I think it's just, you know,
01:31:30
Speaker
crashing through new walls growth yeah growth let's just yeah i guess we just call it growth yeah that's how i feel i feel like courage and growth go hand in hand if i wasn't going to say courage it was going to be growth so we're on the same page last question rich what's your favorite movie or book of the year so far
01:31:52
Speaker
Oh, that's a fabulous one.
01:31:54
Speaker
I would tell you, I don't think, I haven't seen my favorite movie of the year yet.
01:32:01
Speaker
I feel that my favorite movie of the year just came out today, and that is Mission Impossible.
01:32:08
Speaker
The final reckoning part two, just, I think timing is I'm not gonna be able to see it until probably Monday, but that's okay.
01:32:15
Speaker
Cause I've got the camp maybe Sunday night.
01:32:17
Speaker
Anyway, that's my favorite movie so far and book.
01:32:21
Speaker
I would have to say the book that has probably made me think the most, or maybe I've referred to the most, you know, like in terms of conversation,
01:32:34
Speaker
might either be the growth mindset or mindset by KELTIC or the gap in the gain, which...
01:32:43
Speaker
Kim Scott, which I actually just recommended to somebody recently.
01:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, that would definitely be my number one would be the gap in the gain.
01:32:53
Speaker
That has been such a critical mind shift for me, especially when we're dealing with uncertainty in a lot of areas of life right now.
01:33:03
Speaker
So that looking for
01:33:06
Speaker
the gratitude finding the good has been a huge, um, uplifter for me.
01:33:11
Speaker
So love that.
01:33:12
Speaker
My favorite movie of the year.
01:33:13
Speaker
You need to see it.
01:33:14
Speaker
If you haven't yet, rich, it's called sinners.
01:33:18
Speaker
Have you heard of that?
01:33:19
Speaker
No.
01:33:20
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
01:33:21
Speaker
Okay.
01:33:21
Speaker
I'll, I'll riff on it just a little bit.
01:33:23
Speaker
I don't want to give too much away.
01:33:24
Speaker
But it is Michael B. Jordan, and he plays Twins Smoke and Stack.
01:33:31
Speaker
And it has a vampire theme, but it's not what you think of a vampire movie in the last 10 years that you've seen.
01:33:41
Speaker
It is a completely new concept, an incredibly beautiful movie.
01:33:47
Speaker
Highly recommend.
01:33:47
Speaker
Okay.
01:33:49
Speaker
All right.
01:33:50
Speaker
That's going to go in my list.
01:33:51
Speaker
Yes, you need to take Wendy to see that.
01:33:55
Speaker
I know you might not like scary movies.
01:33:57
Speaker
It's not really a scary movie so much.
01:33:59
Speaker
It is suspenseful.
01:34:01
Speaker
But after the first 10 minutes, it's like this insanely cool story.
01:34:05
Speaker
So the first 10 minutes are a little scary.
01:34:07
Speaker
I'll just say that.
01:34:08
Speaker
Okay.
01:34:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:34:10
Speaker
So that was short and sweet, quick hit Q and a spotlight with you and me.
Listener Engagement Encouragement
01:34:16
Speaker
We love sharing our human side beyond the metals coaching and gear.
01:34:21
Speaker
Right.
01:34:22
Speaker
So if you've got a favorite question you'd like to ask us on our next episode, please, please feel free to drop it in our inbox.
01:34:30
Speaker
Take us online.
01:34:31
Speaker
We just put out a call for questions on our, um, great to greatness, Facebook page.
01:34:36
Speaker
So hit us up folks.
01:34:38
Speaker
But until next time, keep racing forward and staying curious.
01:34:43
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:34:44
Speaker
And folks, thanks for listening this week.
01:34:46
Speaker
Be sure to follow us at 303 Triathlon and at Grit to Greatness Endurance.
01:34:50
Speaker
And of course, go to iTunes, give us a rating and a comment.
01:34:53
Speaker
We definitely appreciate that.
01:34:54
Speaker
Just helps us reach more listeners.
01:34:56
Speaker
Stay tuned, train informed, and enjoy the endurance journey.
01:35:00
Speaker
For your 303 Endurance Podcast.
01:35:01
Speaker
It's your 303 Endurance Podcast.
01:35:02
Speaker
It's your 303 Endurance Podcast.
01:35:04
Speaker
It's your 303 Endurance Podcast.
01:35:06
Speaker
It's your 303 Endurance Podcast.
01:35:08
Speaker
It's your 303 Endurance Podcast.
01:35:38
Speaker
Endurance Podcast.