Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. I am Alanna. I'm Kelsey.
Speaker: And this is episode four day. And we're back. Welcome back guys. We hope you had a good Christmas or end of 2021. Although speaking of end of 2021, I heard some sad news this morning that it'll be a week old by the time this comes out. But did you hear about Betty White?
Speaker: Yes, I was heartbroken. I was on my laptop watching something and sometimes when I'm bored I just start I'll like put it so it's a half the screen and I'll just be doing other stuff on the other side and I literally went to Google News and it was like Betty White passed away and I like literally paused when I was watching and was like just literally went to every single news source in everything for like the next 10 minutes being like no!
Speaker: Yeah, and especially in this day and age where sometimes you have to make sure it is real. Yeah. Once I saw someone post, like I saw someone post it on Instagram, and that's what I was on. And I was like, oh, they wouldn't have put it here. Hope, like, probably if it wasn't true. And so close to her 100th birthday. Yeah, they're still going to play her birthday special on, I think it's the 17th.
Speaker: That makes me so sad. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, she was wonderful but somebody wrote something that I thought that was cute was like that she had perfect timing and what a good day to go out when you know you'll have more people toasting to your memory on New Year's Eve every year than any other day. And I was like that's sweet. Sweet but sad. It is, yeah.
Speaker: rip betty she was the best thing since before sliced bread yep i fell in love with betty white watching the proposal i think it was with ryan reynolds and sandra bullock and you go um to the window to the balls and they're like out in the forest doing that dance oh
Speaker: Yeah, she's just nailed any comedic role. She's so funny. I saw her in her classic Golden Girls, which was also brilliant, of course. I caught a few episodes here and there. And then my mom taught in Cleveland. So I watched her bid on there. Oh, damn. She's been at everything. Yeah, she has. I was kind of shocked when I started looking up some of the stuff she was in. And yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker: yeah oh i was gonna say um i got a new chair oh really hopefully it doesn't squeak as much but probably will it's okay it's a chair so i've noticed it's done it once or twice but yeah it was kind of funny because somebody it's pretty comfy so that's good somebody was basically getting rid of an old one at my office that they didn't use anymore so it was kind of over by like
Speaker: the recycling and the, you know, the junk area or whatever. So I'm like, ooh, like free chair? Okay. And like, cause there's nothing wrong with it really. It was a little like old, but I took it home and gave it a wash and a love and everything. So it's all good as new.
Speaker: but it was funny because I was yeah I was going to put it in my car and my friend was like oh yeah you should probably just pull your car up to the front then it'll be easy you don't drag it through the snow I was like yeah you're right we'll do that and I'm like she's brushing off her car my friend Mel and I'm like putting it in the car and I as I push it in I see the other the last person has put their name on the bottom of it and their first name was Alana the same way I spell it oh god that's like it literally has my name on it
Speaker: That's pretty funny. Yeah, it was meant to be. Yeah, I was gonna say it was destined to be your chair. Yeah, I'm like, it has my name on it. It's just like, oh, because I knew there I have seen other Atlanta, like on the email list, when you go to scan and email something to yourself, it has everyone's emails. Yeah, you know. So anyway, I knew there was other Alanas.
Speaker: but now I have one of their hand -me -downs. Yeah, you got a chair out of it. That's right, that's right baby. We are moving up and I got a little, also my sister got me a little Mothman keychain guy that I'm gonna hang up in here with my other cryptid
Speaker: Cryptid crap. No, I shouldn't say that. He's really cute. He'll look good. Yeah. I'll hang him up by my, you know, my cryptid sticker art. Cause he looks kind of like that little Mothman guy. They're going to be friends. Yeah.
Speaker: But anyway, we are happy to be back. I want to say that. I've missed this. I've missed you guys. We hope you had a good time. Like we hope you had a good time, but you missed us too, baby. So I'm happy to be doing this again. And it's 2022. Yeah.
Speaker: That's all we're going to say because we're not going to put any pressure on the year. We don't want to scare it. No, that's what everybody's saying. They're like, don't say 2022 is going to be your year. No, it actually hasn't. It's been okay for today. It's been fine. Yeah. We don't know exactly what's happening yet with that awful variant, but it's bad.
Speaker: It does seem very contagious. Yeah, Ontario just reported like 18 ,000 new like positive cases in the last day. Okay, that is a lot. If it's in the thousands, how many people are they testing? Well, they said like Canada just reported 40 ,000 in one day, which is the most we've ever reported.
Speaker: Yeah, my only thing is that that's awful, but it seems like the people I've heard from that have got it that I...
Speaker: kind of know or whatever have just been like it's it's a shitty cold like yeah at least they haven't had it bad no this one seems for the majority of people to be pretty minor it's just extremely contagious like the common cold is but as you know some people can die from the common cold so
Speaker: I mean that's true yes so please if we want to if it if it doesn't go super crazy if it stops this you know snowballing so bad then I hope we are all still allowed to go about our business and travel and whatnot and that's all I'm gonna say yeah yeah we're not jinxing anything oh god yeah but how are you guys we are hanging in there yeah
Speaker: oh my god um what else well i want to say just one more thing that's you can rate on spotify now so for all of you lovely listeners and there's a bunch of you that listen on spotify if you can give us a five star we would appreciate the hell out of yous yeah i i gave us a five star you did the minute i told you about it and i was like yeah hell yeah
Speaker: damn right you do and I've been giving any of my Favorite podcasts and friend podcasts. I'm like, I listen to you. You deserve a five -star Yeah, make me laugh. You deserve a five -star All yeah all the hard work that goes into it Yeah, they deserve a five -star whether or not you liked it I
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah, thank you for everyone to everyone who's listened. I was just telling Kelsey like I love to see when certain episodes just get a kind of a spike or whatever like our Japan episode was kind of trending hot and I love to see it. I hope you enjoy it. And today we are talking about medical mysteries if you haven't been on our Instagram and seen that that is what's coming.
Speaker: Because probably a lot of you aren't on our Instagram. Yeah. What is wrong with you? Daniel, I'm talking to you. My brother doesn't have Insta. That's okay. Social media is the devil. No. But I have, yeah, mine's really weird today. Mine's something that most people may not have heard of. I hadn't heard of until I started
Speaker: hardcore listening to podcasts okay mine uh well just because i used to watch like as you guys know mystery diagnosis um there's not a lot of medical disorders that i haven't at least briefly heard about so
Speaker: okay yeah yeah you were thinking like is there like an unexplained kind of medical illness people show yeah i know yeah that's kind of a lot of what i was thinking going into this too or like specific cases where people
Speaker: were just weirdly sick yeah yeah so i just kind of picked one that i thought would be the suckiest medical mystery to have i'll be honest all right yeah but who wants to go first? there are some bizarre ones out there sorry yeah um
Speaker: I think I want to hear about the sock. Yeah because now you got me wondering what exactly makes it so horrible and I don't think I'm gonna be able to stop wondering until you tell me. You're gonna be so distracted if you're trying to do your own segment. Yeah I want to know what it is so I can immediately start thinking if I have it or not. Oh you definitely don't have it because I feel like people that have it know they have it.
Speaker: Okay. So... That's good. I don't need another mystery diagnosis. No. But I'm like, what does this mean? I'm lethargic all the time. I have it. I have seasonal affective disorder. I'm always sad in the winter. I got the sad. I got the sad. No, so this I probably should have looked up the pronunciation of it, but that's okay.
Speaker: It is called the Aquagenic Urticaria? Urticaria? Do you want to try and guess what it is? Yeah, I do because my guess would be they have some sort of aversion to water. Yeah, you got it.
Speaker: the aqua. I'm like, Oh, no, either that or they really don't like the band or aqua that does Barbie Girl. So this aquagenic your your take care or take care of
Speaker: Okay, now that sounds like a word. Yeah, a medical word. It's very medical wordy. I'm not a doctor, but I play one on a podcast. So it's kind of in the realm of having an allergic reaction to water, which is just this is why I picked it because honestly, that's just the fucking worst.
Speaker: Really though, I love being in the water, everything to do with water, things that are made with water, drinks. Exactly.
Speaker: uh so this swim like a fish drink like a fish you know but i used to be one of the ones that it takes me a while to get into the cold water like in the ocean and the lake and stuff but once i'm in i don't get out for a long time yeah um so in this like condition it has a few different like um sub categories and some of them are actually allergic reactions and some variations of the condition aren't actually allergic reactions
Speaker: interestingly enough um so in this you're when you have an allergic reaction your immune system just in general releases things called histamines as a response and they're bodies that are sent by kind of your immune system to fight off a harmful substance
Speaker: Okay, and it makes sense these histamines. Yeah are what triggered the allergy like symptoms That people experience like swelling Could be like runny or like runny nose watery eyes That's the histamines that your body like just released. So that's like the symptoms of the allergic reaction and
Speaker: It's all those fun things that we love to experience all at once. Yeah. So the aquagenic urticaria or commonly called water allergy is a very rare condition, which can in some cases cause like hives or the urticaria. That just means hives.
Speaker: Hives anywhere you touch water, that would be horrible. So it causes hives after the skin has been in contact with water regardless of the temperature of water. So some people do, you can have like cold or hot like hive response to just like water or like temperature.
Speaker: okay without having this affliction or whatever yeah exactly those are like separate so this is just water in general right and it most commonly affects women and it's often yeah it's often triggered around like puberty so typically before puberty it can happen like randomly and then it'll become increasingly more frequent and then
Speaker: normally by like mid teens or so it's gonna be every probably every single time you touch water this is just like another one of these bad things that can happen because we're just the lucky enough like gender that gets to have a freaking period women why is it always women why is it always women also am i allowed to say that gender anymore no okay moving on i don't know
Speaker: I'm offensive in general as a person. Moving on, okay. So some people also experience severe itching after contact with water and this severe itching or irritation after contact with water most often happens without the development of the physical hives or redness and this off branch of the aqua gena
Speaker: It was water aquagenic. This one's called aquagenic perotis. So that's like you outwardly have no physical signs so you aren't developing the hives or like redness but you're experiencing like burning like sensations anywhere the water came in contact with instead.
Speaker: without any cool welts to even show anybody. You're like, no, seriously, it fucking hurts. They're like, okay. And this like aquagenic pervertis is without the release of histamine from the body. So histamine would normally cause like the hives and stuff on your body.
Speaker: And that one's an allergic reaction. This peruritus variation isn't actually an allergic reaction to the body, so any sort of like antihistamines or like Benadryl and stuff like that that people take for allergies isn't ever gonna work. Oh no! No antihistamine will work because it's not histamine related. It's not a histamine reaction, exactly.
Speaker: I'm literally scratching myself with a pen. Thank you for this. Right? So the underlying cause of both of the conditions or like the sub -conditions kind of things are unknown. No, like doctors have no idea really. And due to its rarity, there's extremely limited data for any sort of effective treatment and there's no like known cure available.
Speaker: Damn, so did the antihistamines work on at least one form of it though? Some specific people seem to have a positive reaction to it, but because it's so rare of a disorder, like I have data that says from like my research, there was a 2011 report from, I think it was said
Speaker: or the article I was reading said that the report from 2011 came from trusted source. I don't know where they got that from. But it said that there were fewer than 100 cases confirmed of the condition that was reported in any sort of medical literature. So it's extremely rare. That would make it harder to study. Yeah.
Speaker: Damn. That sucks. So, symptoms. And this is part of why it's just like terrible nightmare of a condition. They can develop from any source of like being in contact with any source of water, including tap water, sea water, rain, snow. You have to avoid swimming. You also have reactions to your own sweat, tears, urine, and saliva.
Speaker: No, I thought for sure like that couldn't be possible because they come from your own body, those liquids. Yeah, you're like literally allergic to yourself. Yeah, basically. Oh no, I feel anybody out there, imagine if one rare person is listening to this like
Speaker: We love you! I don't know what to say. We don't want to drink to them. I was even trying to figure it out. We'll get to it, but people can be allergic to their organs inside their body, can be allergic to water.
Speaker: so if they drink water they have some of them have extremely severe reactions and it was like but you need to drink water to live so like you have to continually force yourself to have these allergic reactions to keep yourself alive oh my god what is happening to humans we can't to handle spicy milk we can't handle spicy water we literally can't handle half the foods we've created for ourselves like
Speaker: what is going on we're gonna have to eat bland just tofu yeah or like anybody know what the mre's are that they have to eat in the army the ratchet oh gosh i hear they're pretty bad yeah i think i had one of them one time and like it was either in school or like girl guides
Speaker: nice yeah probably where they're like by the way this is something that you could be eating in this job someday yeah um so going on with symptoms so symptoms can include as we talked about like reddening of the skin burning sensations um your skin could develop like lesions um welts or inflammation yeah it's just relentless it's like
Speaker: Dude, everywhere, every kind of water. Yeah. In severe cases, some people also experience allergy, as I mentioned, within their organs. And this can make drinking anything that contains any amount of water very painful and can, in severe cases, lead to difficulty swallowing. They could experience wheezing and difficulties breathing. My God.
Speaker: Like how are we gonna keep them hydrated? Right? Like I don't know. Could you do like an IV of like saline directly into their vein? I don't know. Right. It's like the condition I've heard of too where you're like basically allergic to sunlight. Yeah. Have you ever heard of that? Yeah. I thought that was the worst until I had heard about allergy to water and I was like, ah, okay.
Speaker: yeah yeah yeah that's a would you rather question right there would you rather be allergic to water or sun but don't fucking throw food in there that is just insane yeah oh my god i would kill myself and no anyway so hives can develop anywhere um on an individual's body but commonly develops on a person's neck torso and arms um
Speaker: so once the the water source is removed the rash or itching or like burning sensation typically fades within 30 to 60 minutes um which is fairly good news because it's extremely painful um wow and but some people do experience longer symptoms um which we'll get to i did find a girl that
Speaker: quite popular and she has been documenting her water allergy for like the last four years and her trying to get treatment and stuff and she kind of went viral for posting a video a few times online.
Speaker: Um, of what her routine is like trying to like have a shower or bathe when she's allergic to water and just how severe her reaction is to it. Yeah. No, that stuff is really cool in a way because it can help people that are out there that might be going through the same thing. Yeah.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. Cause you can imagine when you can't shower because you have like some things in a cast, your leg, your arm or whatever, and you got to like wrap it up in a bag and like keep it out of it. Not that I've ever broken anything, knock on wood, but I've seen it happen. So yeah, exactly. Um, so for causes, as I kind of mentioned before, uh, none of the conditions are fully understood, but doctors do kind of have two working theories. Um,
Speaker: with what's causing these, like, allergy -like reactions. So... Okay, sorry. I'm, like, literally gonna sneeze because we're talking about stuff. I think it's just like... Allergies? Yeah. No, but my allergies have been acting up the last two years, so... Yeah. It's fun. It's the weather, I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker: So they do believe that there's possibly a substance that was dissolved in water that is entering the skin and triggering this immune response. In this theory they're believing that the hives or like burning sensation is not caused by the water specifically, but rather a reaction to something that's inside the water.
Speaker: And what I found online was people talking about like the chemicals that they use to like treat the water in like tap water and everything nowadays is somebody could have a reaction to that and not necessarily the water, but that would kind of negate the fact that it's rain, snow, like your own urine, like
Speaker: Their own sweat. Right. It might not explain the more severe cases, but that sounds super plausible to me because people can have pretty sensitive skin. Yeah. My skin can be really sensitive to really fine particles, like not necessarily dust, but more like sawdust and things like that. And that can make me just touch it and break out knife there. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I have reactions to like highly like perfume like hand creams and stuff like that. Yeah, definitely. That can that can bother a bunch of people. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, the other working theory that doctors kind of feel like is plausible is that there's an interaction somehow between the water and a substance that's found on or in the skin of these individuals. That's actually generating a toxic like material or substance that's then leading to the development of hives. So interesting. Yeah.
Speaker: There's one case that I thought of covering for this that's actually ended up she became dubbed the toxic lady because of like fumes and stuff that was coming off her. That lady in the hospital? Yeah, nurses were like almost getting sick.
Speaker: I'm sorry I almost thought it was kind of a kind of like one that I've heard a few times so yeah I thought it might be almost a well -known one but let me know if you guys want me to cover the toxic lady we will do it I heard what was it that was talking about her and they actually like went to the hospital
Speaker: and like talk to people that were there or like interviewed people and then interviewed like people that had done the like audits on the hospital and they kind of boiled it down to a combination of her coming in and the fact that there was like really poor hygiene in the hospital at the time or something and that there was like possibly a gas leak and it was causing people to have like the vomiting and passing out
Speaker: Yeah. Sounds like one of those explanations they come up with just to make people shut up. Yeah, like that sounds very like a perfect combination storm of stuff happening at the exact same minute. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not to, yeah.
Speaker: banter this word around too much, but I hate when people just are like, well, what could it be just mass hysteria? But I'm sure we'll get to it in my case. So as far as diagnosing this condition, doctors do believe that most cases occur sporadically in people.
Speaker: and doesn't necessarily have a family history of any of the conditions. But there have been reported family histories, even within one family that had three generations of individuals in their family that developed the condition. Wow, but other than that, there's no other signs that it's genetic.
Speaker: yeah not really no um just that one family yeah there's really only like a couple families but again there's only like a hundred people in pretty much the world so a couple families out of like a hundred people maybe enough i don't know um so it might lend more like to that theory that it could be something in the water yeah that could be a case of that
Speaker: Yeah, it definitely could be in some cases. So some family cases were reported along with other family, like medical conditions. It's typically not like if one person's like quote unquote allergic to water. They normally have like other things in their family history, other medical conditions that are hereditary, not just having this passed from the family.
Speaker: Yeah they're more likely to have a bunch of medical conditions and also have this. Really? But doctors do say that as far as they've figured out there isn't really any specific inheritance pattern that they've noticed or like kind of confirmed at this time.
Speaker: And they're like, we have no theory at this time. No comment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God. House will know what it is, Dr. House. I don't know. Maybe they did an episode about this. I never did watch more. I think I got part way through the first season and then I just couldn't stand the formula layout of the show.
Speaker: Yes, very formulaic. Yeah. I made a comment on, yeah, a Reddit thing the other day was something like, it's not always a Vatican, but it isn't true crime. And I was like, and in the house, it's not, it's always first, some rare form of encephalitis until it's not. Yeah. Um, so for as far as like regular diagnosis goes, doctors do perform like a physical exam. They typically will review like a person's medical history.
Speaker: And if safe, based on the severity of the person's reaction to water, they do perform what's called a water challenge test. Oh god. Please don't make this into a TikTok water challenge. No. Oh my god, that would be terrible.
Speaker: um well for most people it would be fine it involves just applying a water compress at a similar to body temperature um so they said like 35 degrees um celsius or whatever is typically okay or that celsius or paradise
Speaker: Well, I think the human body is like 98 something Fahrenheit. So probably says yes. Um, yeah. So they would do like similar to body temperature, this like watt or wet, like washcloth compress. Um, and they want to do it at body temperature so that any reaction isn't then confused with, as I mentioned, like people that are allergic to cold or hot temperatures, they want to keep it similar to body temperature.
Speaker: yeah kind of tepid yeah so they would apply this water compress to the body for upwards of 30 minutes and then review any symptoms starting after the first 15 minutes of exposure and in extreme cases it because people with like water sensitivity sometimes this has no reaction to them
Speaker: So sometimes they have to have tests involving like full showers or direct baths.
Speaker: And obviously this would be depending, safety wise, on the severity of a person's typical reaction at home. Aww, can't imagine, yeah, if a bath would be unsafe for you, that just sounds just hard to deal with. Yeah. So relaxing. So treatments, as I said, they don't really have any cures, and then treatments, because it's so,
Speaker: rare, they don't really have anything that's more, it helps more than like a couple of people at a time, I guess. So no large scale studies have ever been completed and unlike any other physical urticaria or like hive conditions, it's not practical to avoid the thing that's causing the reaction, which is water.
Speaker: That's right. You can't really just tell them to abstain from the water. Don't drink the water while you'll die in three days. Like, okay.
Speaker: Don't drink the Kool -Aid and definitely don't drink the water. Yeah, like you have to bathe, like you have to go to the bathroom. Yeah, I don't know. You have to drink your wine, your hot chocolate. Well, hot chocolate would have water unless you made it with milk. Does milk have water in it?
Speaker: It's all water and dairy. Some treatments have been determined to be somewhat affected by doctors.
Speaker: Um, so we kind of talked about before that the people that do have like the histamine reaction, they are able to sometimes take antihistamines to block the body's allergy type reaction to the water. Um, and that's typically for people that experience the hives or redness. Um, they've also had some.
Speaker: uh positive reactions using like a cream or like topical like ointment or anything um kind of to apply to the skin before the exposure to water to help create a barrier such as like petroleum -based products are nice because they're kind of easy to spread and the water's not really gonna penetrate it as much as just bare skin.
Speaker: Sorry. They've also used UV phototherapy in a few cases, but that one's not really reported on too much. There's something called Omalizam.
Speaker: and that's an injectable medication that's usually, oh my god, I can't talk, that's typically used for severe asthma and has been tried successfully in a few cases. Oh, that's kind of cool. Yeah, I don't know if that's to stop like any throat reactions for it or what, it just kind of offhandedly mentioned that.
Speaker: Right, and it doesn't say like what type of medication it is. Like I've always had asthma since a little kid, so I've always had like puffers or sometimes you have an at -home thing that's like, we always just called it a mask, but it's like a nebulizer and it was like almost like an oxygen type of tank sort of thing where you'd put it over your face and you'd breathe into like the good fumes that would open up your airways for like 20 minutes or whatever.
Speaker: yeah this says it's an injectable medication so this would be like a needle i have no idea oh okay yeah i must have missed that part um so weird some people with severe reactions are able to use epi pens which just sounds like shit like just go hop in the shower because you need to bathe and then fucking use an epi pen because your throat closes or some shit can you imagine yeah
Speaker: yeah it's rough um so epi pens can contain epinephrine aka adrenaline and they cause the blood pressure to increase which reduces swelling and hives in the body i didn't know that that's kind of interesting okay yeah that's what it does yeah um they also increase lung function if it's been restricted in any way
Speaker: And these are used to be used only in cases of an emergency when somebody's been exposed to water.
Speaker: or you're in Pulp Fiction and you need to bring someone's wife back from the dead after they go to eat. So however, some people experience no improvement with any sort of treatments and are required to limit their exposure to water by limiting bathing time, wearing moisture wicking clothing, avoiding sweating and avoiding water -based activities.
Speaker: How rude. This is like all the things and it's just impossible. It's like some, I don't know, it reminds me of things you'll read about like that attract like insects. It's like sweat but also like deodorant and also like, you know what I mean? Everything. Yeah, you're just, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.
Speaker: yeah um people also may need to monitor the weather um as i mentioned like rain snow anything like that um and they even if they're obviously if their organs are allergic to water and they experience problems drinking water they may have to change their diets and also avoid high water content foods like soup yeah or cucumbers
Speaker: um or lettuce all the veg don't eat salad i guess um and that would suck if it happened to a kappa because they both like cucumbers and live in the water yeah check out our patreon for more information yeah i forgot about that that's funny the person was like what are you talking about
Speaker: I was like, oh my god, she really came over, right? I'm like looking at the notes. I'm like, we did this. Okay. Yeah. Because it was on our latest Patreon. Kappa always makes me think about like, American universities and like, yes, like,
Speaker: Me too! I almost made a... I wanted to make a stupid joke about that when I posted about it on our Patreon, but I resisted. I was gonna be like, Kappa Kappa, kill ya! That's what I was like, what? I didn't understand. I was like, they like cucumbers and I was like, okay.
Speaker: I was soaked in peace. Anyway, yes, you may need to monitor, yeah, high water content in foods. And then obviously you probably need to monitor the amount of water you're drinking depending on how severe your symptoms are, because you need to drink water to live. Yes, a little bit. Hold on mom, hold that thought. I gotta go give myself an allergic reaction. I gotta drink this glass of water eight times a day.
Speaker: And it's fucking stupid diseases and I'm all diseases are stupid I mean, I don't just mean that this one is but like they are they tell your body to like attack itself or that like Or your body doesn't make enough sugar or whatever the heck it is So probably you know when you're a diabetic and like it just doesn't do things properly and you're like, yeah God body you have one job Keep me alive. Yeah
Speaker: Please, I'm gonna try as hard as I can to fuck you up in the process, but your job is to work with me. Is to try just that little bit harder now. Exactly. So, with any of the treatments I mentioned, obviously, I highly doubt anybody listening has this, but if you do, obviously talk to your doctor before you diagnose yourself with this, or try any of these treatments. They've been waiting for you to say that. They've been like, Kelsey, you know what? That pushed me over the edge. I'm gonna talk to my doctor.
Speaker: I'm allergic to water. So I did want to talk about because as I mentioned, I ran across this girl who is allergic to water. So she's a fairly popular YouTuber, I guess. She's also kind of blown up on TikTok in like 2021.
Speaker: Oh, okay. Someday we may have a TikTok you guys, you never know. I know it's a thing. Alana will be in charge of it. Oh my god, I know. I enjoy watching them. I've never used TikTok. I don't know. It's not my thing. It's not bad because it's, you know, it's a good amount for people's attention spans nowadays. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So this is Naya Selway. So she currently is 23 years old and she is a YouTuber with the aquagenic piraritas. So she experiences the burning and everything without the hives or any redness. So that means it's not an allergic reaction. So histamines and everything don't work for her.
Speaker: her antihistamines. So she lives in the UK and received attention after a 2017 video she posted to YouTube that was kind of like what her typical reaction she has after bathing is. Honestly, I watched it and I almost burst into tears watching her because it's brutal.
Speaker: like she pretty much is bathing talks about like how after the first five minutes she's normally okay so she legitimately is like trying to shampoo and like condition her hair as quickly as possible and like wash her body and then like get out of the tub but apparently it doesn't matter how much like time she spends in the water um it can be like a few minutes or like 10 minutes it'll be the same reaction in the same length
Speaker: So pretty much after this, she attempts to dry off as quickly as possible and then experiences for her pain anywhere lasting up to three hours or more. And it was pretty brutal. She films herself through this whole thing and pretty much has it on fast forward.
Speaker: yeah so and at a certain point she says almost every time that she starts breaking down and crying which she's also allergic to so then her face starts burning even more because she's crying oh no
Speaker: Yeah. And I bet like normal painkillers offer no relief. Yeah. She had some, when is it? I think she got something prescribed from like UK doctors, but it, and she's able to take it and sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. That sucks. So while she doesn't experience the physical hives or redness, she does experience severe and debilitating pain.
Speaker: and itching that lasts around three hours or more after she's exposed to water. She did talk about how the fact that her organs aren't affected, so she is able to eat and drink normally, at least. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that is a small relief. Right. So she explained on her YouTube channel,
Speaker: that she would have occasional reactions when she was younger and when she hit puberty it became more severe and she was able to receive a diagnosis from a doctor but has not had any relief from really any of the treatments and she hopes one day that she can outgrow the condition. Oh because did you say that can happen? Not really from what I saw but
Speaker: I don't know, maybe in conversations from her doctor. Yeah, hopefully. But I do have some quotes from her. And then for on her website, I will post a link to her YouTube channel and the video you can watch. Oh, yeah, I can give her a shout out in our like Instagram, too. Yeah, because I'm sure she wouldn't mind the, you know, like linked whatever to her.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, yeah. These are the quotes. It says, quote, I cannot. This is her talking about going to the bathroom. So it says, I cannot go for a wee without having an allergic reaction. She said in one of her videos, I have an allergic reaction all over the back of my thighs and my bum. And it travels all the way up my back almost every single time that I go to the toilet. So that is at least four times a day. And that's on a good day.
Speaker: But okay, so it doesn't affect her organs but it moving in her body causes her pain on the outside like yeah, cuz she's obviously not like peeing all over the outside unless she's really messy but like the little bit that Would be like in contact with her Yeah, it would be a no except oh sure
Speaker: Or like, yeah, exactly. Even any like little dribble you had down the leg, if that happened. Is she from the UK? You said a wee. Yeah, she's in the UK. I love their accents. I'm gonna check out her channel for sure. Um, so she also talked about how she has to avoid the rain, which makes it difficult for her to leave her house on a rainy day. And says, quote, whether I take an umbrella or not, whether I take an all in one waterproof wetsuit,
Speaker: There is absolutely no way for me to step outside the house when it's pouring with rain and not get a single drop of water on my skin because that's all it takes. Also, I have a - I don't know if she talks about this but like other things in life that she might want to do later like get pregnant like that seems like it would come with so many complications. She'd have to pee more and all sorts of things. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: yeah i don't know for that there's a lot of fluid involved like yeah there's one thing i ran across and i didn't really keep it in my notes because it wasn't talked like i got most of my information from like the rare diseases dot info website then like wikipedia then healthline .com and health .com and then her youtube channel but
Speaker: Um, one article I saw written about her said that some doctors believe that this water allergy may be a part of blood or like bone cancer. And it was just kind of like thrown in there and nothing else talked about it. So I have absolutely no idea.
Speaker: yeah sounds like they don't have any clue either yeah that was just like randomly off -handedly like put in one of the articles i read about her and i was like oh okay it's one of those you know like hopefully the more things bring the light to it you know it'll help i'm not saying our little tiny podcast and it's
Speaker: you know, five to 50 listeners are going to help. But like, it's something that's been a good side effect of like COVID. Is that a lot of research has been done to like lung scarring and long term lung conditions and stuff?
Speaker: So I've read some positive things like that, helping that you wouldn't think of, you know, a pandemic helping or anything. Yeah. So this last quote I have from her says, quote, it's about adjusting and it's about staying strong. And it's about using this horrible, horrible experience and this immense challenge to make myself a stronger person and to use it as something to make me grow.
Speaker: Um, I did want to mention she does have like currently a GoFundMe, um, running. Um, she doesn't make very much money from her YouTube channel. Um, and she has exhausted like all treatments available in the UK from the like national health services, which is their like public health care. Um, so she is, she has a GoFundMe going, which,
Speaker: I think is just under 20 ,000 pounds like that's been like donated so far. But she does have her goal set to 250 ,000 pounds because she is seeking medical treatment at a private clinic in Germany that specializes in the conditions of like water allergies and stuff because she's exhausted everything that's available to her in the UK.
Speaker: and she does post regular updates and day in the life videos and to her youtube channel as well as tiktok and explains in detail because people are after her about this money and being like you're a youtuber and all this stuff about why she's asking people for money and she explains that the money is required
Speaker: Because she's been unable to work due to her experiencing symptoms Starting for when she every time she went to the bathroom. She said that was kind of like the tipping point Where once that started you go to the bathroom at work, and you're in pain for three hours straight isn't really Like conductive to you keeping a job I guess so I
Speaker: She hasn't been able to work for a number of years at this point. I can't believe people would even question why she would need a GoFundMe. Yeah, like after the stupid thing people donate on GoFundMe anyway, but she does like I looked at her GoFundMe and she regularly posts pictures of her pretty much like
Speaker: um like classifying her own like it'll be a letter from her doctor and she'll have like blacked out certain things but you can read the entire letter and it literally like lists the price of her procedures and like invoices for it or quotes for it and stuff so she's very open about where the money is going and everything so
Speaker: Wow. What's her YouTube handle or name again? I think it's just her name. It's Nia Selway. N -I -A -H -S -E -L -W -A -Y. Cool. Yeah. We'll check her out. But she is currently 23. I did see because she in 2021 kind of blew up again as she did in like 2017 when she posted the video.
Speaker: to YouTube, she posted a two -part TikTok series about her trying to take a shower and what that was like last year. And it got 5 .8 million views between the two of them on TikTok. So she started being interviewed on a few morning news shows in the UK, which I think helped a little bit. But yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah.
Speaker: sometimes those things will get highlighted on other websites like Buzzfeed and whatever. Crazy. That's a good one. I think that you know that really fit with because you were kind of saying like you know
Speaker: well I don't know if the assignment was whatever yeah I thought it was confused about the assignment because I'm like it's a supernatural episode and mine isn't like supernatural it's just doctors haven't figured it out yet I have like the same problems when I'm trying to like make sure that I'm doing the right thing and what we're talking about and then I'm like no I don't we don't have to like be so
Speaker: that's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of it's something that's basically it's it's a basically a medical mystery to the doctors you know I mean like they don't know they they can't find a plausible or good enough explanation of it just
Speaker: Yeah, no, that's that's one of those weird fucking diseases. But I just feel out of like, as I talked about like any other thing where you experience like allergic reaction like hive reaction to like, you can normally at least semi avoid it.
Speaker: like it could be inconvenient for you to avoid it but like day to day you can probably avoid it but like you can't avoid water like you just when you have that severe of a reaction that even drinking it like you can't avoid it you have to drink water to live like
Speaker: That's just it. Yeah. And it's the other kinds. They're definitely normalized to like, oh yeah, don't bring peanuts into the office or whatever. And people are totally like, they get it. And they do that because they realize it's going to save someone else a lot of grief. But there's no saving these people, unfortunately. Don't bring water. No, bring water. Don't shower. Don't use water.
Speaker: Yeah, don't drink water, don't cry, don't sweat. You couldn't even work out, honestly, even just basic like that. Going to the gym or walking on a treadmill would cause you to sweat.
Speaker: That's what I'm saying. It's kind of like the thing with the things that attract mosquitoes. It's like, well, soap, yes, but also sweat. So like you, no matter which one you choose, it's the same thing for this one. You either shower and then you're in pain or you like don't shower and then you're sweating and you're in pain. Yeah, exactly. And then you smell and you're in pain. Oh, hey, Vey. Yeah. That's a rough one. Yeah. Our heart goes out to these people.
Speaker: Yes, these like new country people in the world. We are sorry.
Speaker: Yeah and we yeah it makes me feel like grateful that I am healthy. Yeah she did talk about that on her thing and it kind of stuck with me because I had a shower earlier and I washed my hair and she said in one of her videos that she wanted you to think of her next time you got into a shower and you were so comfortable like taking a bubble bath or like your shower was so nice and just think about like if you
Speaker: had that and it led to like three hours of like debilitating pain where like she says she like wishes she would die for three hours straight every time. Yeah, it's complete opposite for someone like my man Pat, he takes a bath to help with his back pain. So he'll take a bath to be more comfortable for several hours. So if that was taken away from him, that'd be so hard. Yeah, it would be awful.
Speaker: well done thank you we'll be back for alana's case i'm excited because i guess i don't know no no it'll be a surprise to everybody yeah all right
Speaker: enjoy a promo from our friends over at Haunter. I barely know her podcast who I really recommend because they have a real good time like we do I think. I think we have a good time and I enjoy their stuff and you know you can just tell them people have fun recording and these guys do so have a listen and check them out. Enjoy.
Speaker: Do you like stories so scary that you can't sleep for three days? Do you like exploring the supernatural? Do you like spooky bitches? If you answered yes to any of these questions, we've got the podcast for you. Haunt her. I barely know her. Hosted by me, Zoey Knowlton. And me, Katie Groves. Together we take turns trying to scare the bejesus out of each other. But it's probably just going to be me that gets scared, to be honest.
Speaker: Eh, check us out at our website for more information at www .hauntheribarelyknowher .com. Stay spooky my friends. Well, welcome back y 'all. Y 'all come back now you're here and you did.
Speaker: We also want to remind you guys that if you have any listener stories, just meaning any spooky stories that you personally have, that you can send them on over to castlesandcryptidsatgmail .com because we would love to have a listener episode pretty soon. Yeah, that would be very cool. I love hearing listener stories.
Speaker: on any podcast they're always so interesting because you're just like okay like these are like the real deal you know it's not like going to the movies yeah yeah they're just creepy because they're real and they're like so specific like when someone like sees a dead loved one or something you're like oh that just made that story like so specific to them like yeah
Speaker: It's just so relatable, I guess. So did I tell you what I was covering for this? No. You just said something of a possible mass hysteria and I can't remember what you talked about at the very, very beginning.
Speaker: it yeah I'm not yeah it's not like I'm just gonna like cover the term mass hysteria or anything but it definitely is gonna come up with this or play into it a lot and you know I just I think it's an interesting concept but also that it's mostly used as like a lazy person's excuse for an explanation for things they don't understand yeah most often
Speaker: I'm gonna cover something I heard about on a couple different little places but before listening to podcasts I had never heard about it on any like TV show or anything but it is pretty recent so that that kind of makes sense so this is about yeah sorry I'm excited. When you said mass hysteria and then you had heard about it a few different places I was like are you gonna talk about the dancing plague?
Speaker: no but they do call that that's yeah that's one of those things they like to put down to mass hysteria which is like how is that an explanation yeah like just a bunch of people start dancing in like the 1500s until they like literally drop yeah and people are like oh yeah they just must have all gone crazy
Speaker: I know I saw something recently that they were talking about they thought it was a type of mold that was growing on their wheat and everything that they were using for like alcohol and bread in the town. Isn't that what is actually attributed to a lot of the witch trials and stuff? I think so, yeah. That plant, I can't think of the name of it.
Speaker: But see, I don't like it. I think a lot of times, and I think I have a little bit in my stuff where I was just gonna mention how, yeah, like explanations like mass hysteria often to me feel like a person's way to not have to investigate something further. Yeah, that's true. So this is about something that's called Havana syndrome.
Speaker: Havana syndrome. Does it take place in Cuba? It does. This is where it all began. But not that long ago, because I said it wasn't that old. So this, from what I read, probably the earliest was in late 2016 to early 2017. Don't really recent then.
Speaker: yeah maybe there's some earlier stuff but this was the earliest that i read about that they had reports from so yeah as of this recording within the last five -ish years or so because oh my god it's 2020 now i know i'm trying to i mean i said it's 2020 no it's 2022 there's too many twos 2022 is so hard to say
Speaker: I don't want to be back in 2020. I take it back. The Time Gods are going to get me now. Time, please. No, I'm trying to think of when my family went to Cuba. When did we go? Yeah, we Canadians have been allowed to go there for a long time. We didn't really have any beef with them. I think we went in like 2017. Oh, wow. So it would have been like right around this time. So this is interesting.
Speaker: Yes, these earliest reports were from late 2016 to early 2017. Interesting. It was mostly American diplomats at first that reported what would become known as Havana syndrome. Sorry.
Speaker: and it was at least 21 American diplomats that were stationed in Cuba that reported neurological symptoms all of a sudden like with no apparent onset like explanation for their onset I should say okay I was gonna say it's not gonna be Traveler's diarrhea is it?
Speaker: No, number one, the number one symptom of travelers. Yeah. Oh man. Oh, I long for the days when the, that was the travelers biggest complaints when I was a travel agent or they were worried for a time. I think about this time too, or maybe earlier where there was the Zika virus and that was the only worry, but
Speaker: Oh well, simpler times. So these Americans, the American diplomats were experiencing symptoms like headaches, nausea, sometimes hearing loss. And some actually reported hearing a high pitched sound like a high pitched whine that one person likened to or described as being caught in an invisible beam of energy.
Speaker: I don't know about that. That feels like. But some described it as an audible, like this is a quote, audible or sensory emanating from a distinct direction. Okay. Well, most people didn't probably describe it quite that. But the
Speaker: Yeah. That was from one of the articles, but it was weird because like when it moved, it might, or when they moved rather, it might disappear or lessen. So I think that would be really weird because you'd be like, where's it coming from? I'm like, am I hearing something behind me? And then you move and you like, don't know where it's coming from again. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Very strange phenomenon that they had no explanation for.
Speaker: Um, others likened it to the sound that air makes inside of a car when one window is partially rolled down. Oh, that's annoying. I was going to say, yeah, that does sound irritating, right? Like it's not a great sound. Um, sometimes it lasted 20 seconds to 30 minutes and sometimes the diplomat themselves would feel it, but no other family members that were in the room with them.
Speaker: so it was probably like took a while for these people to report I think at first because it's just like random stuff that yeah if I just had like a random pain in my leg or something I'm not gonna like call the doctor I don't know but either immediately or in the days following these strange occurrences the affected people were to experience quote neurological impairments including disorders of balance sleep vision hearing or cognition
Speaker: very strange yeah it sounds so weird it's it's kind of bizarre um but yeah they
Speaker: there's a little bit more i guess i have on it i'm like what am i trying to say um so uh because these were american diplomats obviously they did eventually start getting some of these reports to their superiors that they're like having some medical distress and weird shit going on and noises
Speaker: So in response to what the Secretary of State, Rex W. Tillerson, said were health attacks, the Trump administration withdrew all non -essential personnel from the U .S. Embassy in Havana and kicked out a number of Cuban diplomats from Washington, D .C. Oh my god. Of course. Well, they didn't think it was attacks. Yes, and this was, I guess he just got in?
Speaker: late 2016. I believe that was when he was elected. Yeah, he's hot to trot at the time. Anyway, but it did seem to me like investigations into it were sort of slow.
Speaker: Um, but I also think, yeah, they probably didn't know what to believe or what they were dealing with. They were just like, you know, a couple different, like maybe a handful, a couple dozen, basically diplomats are reporting this. So it's like, okay. Um,
Speaker: By January of 2018, the Associated Press reported that a non -public FBI report found no evidence of an intentional sonic attack.
Speaker: sound waves what no i just picture somebody like parked in a weird van across the street just sending like radio waves out of building being like i'm attacking the american diplomats well it's so weird
Speaker: Like, it'd be easy for a lot of people to swallow, though. Like, I was talking about this a little bit to Pat beforehand, and like, him, he's obviously ex -military, but he's definitely, you know, no stranger to conspiracy theories, either, like me. And so he's like, totally like, yeah, I could believe it was attacked by someone for sure. Why not? Kind of thing.
Speaker: I think it was more some I don't know I feel like stuff like that is more often gonna be something that they're probably communally eating on a consistent basis right because the proximity and just yeah something like in the food that they're being catered at the embassy is like being fucked with
Speaker: Right, it's not always the most sinister explanation. Sometimes, like, what do they say? Occam's Razor is the most simplest. I'm sure they don't say the most simplest, but you know. Most smartest, as they say on wine and crime. It probably doesn't help. I wrote that the CIA never really wanted to reveal the names of the people affected, even to the FBI or the State Department.
Speaker: and reports reports of conflicts stymied the investigation they don't want to talk to each other not the other departments see i don't know yeah it's gonna lead nowhere then
Speaker: like great okay now we're never gonna know anything yeah so now about five years later as we're speaking writing all this more than 200 US government officials around the world have claimed to have experienced Havana syndrome
Speaker: So it has happened again, according to my research. And next I have where it's affected some people that aren't American. So Canadian diplomats. We also had some diplomats stationed in, you know, Cuba and other places like that. So, of course, I believe they worked pretty closely with their American counterparts and like heard about some of this.
Speaker: So Canadian diplomats were tested and given MRI scans in March of 2018, and an unspecified number showed the same evidence of brain damage as their American counterparts. Wow. Yeah, we were like, okay, let's test it. And yep, there's something weird going on here. Hang on, what did I write here?
Speaker: No, that's part of a sentence. It doesn't go anywhere. I should have cut it out. Okay. So a quote from the Globe and Mail from an occurrence on June 1st, 2017. The man woke with a shock. A grating screeching noise filled his head, all but deafening him. He sat bolt upright, surprised that his wife remained asleep amid the wrenching din. It was just after three on what should have been a quiet Thursday morning in Havana.
Speaker: I left my heart in Havana, ooh na na. No. Okay. Quote, that sound lasted 20 to 30 minutes and I couldn't find where it was coming from. Then it faded, grew slower in pace and lower in frequency, and then I felt like I was going to throw up. I had the most overwhelming nausea.
Speaker: end quote, the middle -aged Canadian official said in an interview this week. He got through it, dozed off briefly, and then was awoken again when his wife entered the bedroom, carrying their oldest child who was covered in blood. At around the same time, his father had been experiencing what he called the loud noises. The child had suffered a massive nosebleed. There was blood everywhere in his room. End quote.
Speaker: Yeah, so some of their families were affected and that, that article, I thought that quote kind of brought it home to me with the kid experiencing it too. Yeah. Weird. And that, it's so weird. It's like some people hear noises and then they didn't say if the kid heard a noise or if he just got a nosebleed.
Speaker: And I don't I didn't say anything about like if the mom heard anything with that one. It's all like really bizarre Yeah, I'm trying to think like when I was there Like yeah other than food or like elevation I don't know what their elevation is like I
Speaker: as opposed to like other places because that can affect you a little bit that wouldn't cause like brain damage but I was like I love you for wanting to like cross out all the like quote like illogical explanations or whatever it's like when you're like trying to be a ghost hunter and you're like okay well could it be the wind or could it be this but like to me it's just no it's weird I don't know it's very weird
Speaker: Okay there that was the first medically confirmed case of a Canadian experiencing Havana syndrome. After the fact they started to realize that this wasn't the first report of strange phenomenon um upon like talking to the rest of them they found out that for about four months prior to that at least four families on the Canadian embassy staff had sorry that
Speaker: quote, at least four families on the Canadian embassy staff had been reporting unusual health symptoms, end quote. Hmm. So yeah, it's affecting the Canadians too. And they were in different unions than the Americans. Uh, or hang on. Half of this is on another page. Yeah.
Speaker: They were in different unions. They didn't work directly together necessarily. But the man who reported the June 1st incident, that his son had the nosebleed and stuff. He had heard from an American neighbor that they had been experiencing sonic attacks that were being evacuated. So I don't know why, but everyone keeps calling it sonic attacks. Because they're hearing noises, I guess. And that's the only thing they can link it to. I don't know.
Speaker: But we'll get to some of the theories in just a minute here. This is just a roundup of some of the symptoms. At first the Canadian incidents were not associated with the American Embassy's sickness reports. But after the June 1st report things changed. That day when the man who had heard the strange noises and his son got the nosebleed, when he went to work he felt strange.
Speaker: He could not remember the code to the entry door to enter the embassy, something he presumably used every day. Like we used to have a code to get into our back room at work. We'd go to the bathroom and stuff, so he used it all the time. Yeah, like dozens of times a day. Exactly. The only time you really forget it, you might forget it for like half a second when you come back from vacation or something. Yeah. You just pause awkwardly at the door and just go, I'm not even going to think, I'm just going to put numbers in and then it's right. And you're like, yeah.
Speaker: That's what I would do too. Yeah. Um, so yeah, when he reported this to his boss, which was, I'm glad he did, but yeah, he told his boss and the boss's assistant also mentioned that they thought he was drunk because he had been staggering when he came to work. Oh, like your problems.
Speaker: right like they were like yeah he didn't look right not only you know it wasn't just the thing that he couldn't remember the keypad information he looked like the assistant said he looked like he was drunk and he's like the thing is i don't drink and i never have so wasn't drunk jeez definitely not at work but yeah exactly um and his other son had fainted several times also
Speaker: Oh yeah, here I have about the wife. She had experienced a little bit with bouts of dizziness and it was enough to prevent her from riding her motorcycle.
Speaker: Whoo, by the way, she's gonna say yay because she has a motorcycle. And like basically it made her all of a sudden like really shitty at math, which she was like, I was always good at math. I'm like, oh my God, that sucks. Well, my words, but like basically she was like basically like equations that would have been normally so easy for her. She had like a mental fog. That's so weird.
Speaker: And I don't love that it's like attacking your brain functions. Yeah. You're like, okay, these are skills that I am used to having. Being able to drive things and like perform mental math. Like, hello. Oh my God. So these guys, this Canadian family were rushed to the University of Miami where the American diplomats have been tested. And actually in July of 2017, is that,
Speaker: Maybe around the time you were home already from your visit. Yeah, I think we went in November That would make sense. We wouldn't go in July. Yeah Yeah, I'm pretty sure we went in the winter of like 2016 I don't know if it was like at the back end of 2016 or would have been a front end in like January. I don't know
Speaker: right it was definitely winter okay either i think it was 2016 or 2017 that's crazy might have been 2016 because maybe we went to vegas in 2017 oh yes i remember when you booked that one so yeah we
Speaker: opened our own investigation. The RCMP did in July 2017 and a team of 11 RCMP officers went down to Cuba to test the 17 embassy staff houses for traces of nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons. These were all ruled out. Yeah, they did test though. That was thorough.
Speaker: And by August of that year, the first Canadian family was sent home from Cuba, from the embassy. So by October, then Canada began giving staff what they called the habit test, the Havana brain injury test. Aw, no! I know, right? They literally had to give people a test. They're like, well, they want to make sure you came back okay. Oh my God.
Speaker: I know, it got pretty intense here. It's one of those things where you're like, how do we not hear about this stuff in the mainstream? That's what I'm thinking. How have I not heard about this?
Speaker: Right? Why is it only when I listen to things like paranormal podcasts and things that talk about quote -unquote conspiracy theories that I hear about these normal like things that have been investigated by my country? Yeah, about the government.
Speaker: Yeah, no doubt. My next point is by spring of 2018, Global Affairs Canada ended family posting to Cuba and withdrew all staff with families as more cases materialized. As of when this article I had read, which was published in December 2018, so yeah, still
Speaker: three or four years ago now. But at that time, nine Canadian adults and four children had been diagnosed with the brain injuries, as they called them. Wow. Yeah. So you might be asking, what the heck is Havana syndrome? Why does it only affect certain people?
Speaker: But I'm here to tell you the short and boring answer is we still don't know. Yeah because they keep withdrawing everybody. They do. Well it's like with your case there just wasn't a big pool either. Yeah. Which is like good but also it makes it really hard to figure out. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so in 2018, there was a study performed and published by Douglas H. Smith on 21 of the original diplomats affected. And Smith was the director, or is, I believe is still the director of the Center for Brain Injury and Repair at the University of Pennsylvania.
Speaker: Smith's team found signs of brain damage but no indication of any head trauma. So they took to calling it the Immaculate Concussion. Oh my god. Which reminded me of the Dyatlov Pass incident and also something I would love to cover on one of our paranormal mysteries episodes because
Speaker: that also had weird sort of internal damage that wasn't explainable on the outside. So everyone was very skeptical at first said Smith and now everyone agrees there's something there. But they don't know what. All I can think of for like brain injury is like a parasite or something because like you can get the parasite in your brain from like undercooked pork.
Speaker: and stuff. Right. It's kind of weird shit like that. Acting on the inside but not on the out. I would feel like that would fit. Because like my brother when he went to Cuba before like we went as a family he had gone with his like with a friend and they got into a cab and like went off the resort I think they went into like Havana or something and they were like driving somewhere in
Speaker: they have like been told like not to eat really off the resorts too much. Yeah, that's usually pretty good advice. Like you normally want to like avoid like salads and stuff that's washed in water or like meat because they don't typically, some places won't refrigerate their meat and stuff like that. And my brother's like, yeah, we were in like,
Speaker: a car driving down a road or whatever and people had like half of like half of like animals like hanging off of like their porches like in front of their houses oh nice yeah and especially if you're somewhere as a tourist you're gonna be easy prey for like oh nobody like no local would eat at that place or whatever yeah like you don't know any better like when we hang there um
Speaker: we ate lobster at one like kind of really nice restaurant or whatever we went there for lunch and we had lobster and we all ate the same like lobsters and my brother got like food poisoning and pretty much like when we took the bus back to the resort he like pretty much ran into the bushes and was like projectile vomiting
Speaker: like oh no yeah and then he had a problem with like traveler's diarrhea like at another place we ate at that everybody in like a group of like 40 of us ate at and he's the only one that we know that had problems like poor little tender tummy that sucks though so that's what i keep thinking of i'm like i i think it's some sort of parasite like
Speaker: Right, I like that theory. I mean it's just as good as anything else I've heard. Oh yeah at first yeah like we alluded to many thought there was perhaps a sonic weapon hence the noises people were hearing
Speaker: But a Dr. Jurgen Altman, a physicist and expert on acoustics says, I know of no acoustic effect that can cause concussion symptoms. Sounds going through the air cannot shake your head. So it seems to debunk that one, but I don't know. Again, I'm not an expert. Surprise. No.
Speaker: So sounds that were recorded and thought to be part of the phenomenon were debunked as an exceptionally loud species of cricket. So that was kind of interesting. Yeah. And I, I remember like listening to something else or hearing something else and it almost seemed like they were talking about it a different way where they were like, maybe the crickets are causing it. And I was like,
Speaker: No, I thought people recorded the crickets thinking, well, this is the sound! Like, it's all very true. Yeah. Yeah, there's not great research, I don't think.
Speaker: Well, they had these experts. They could be causing the sound. Doesn't mean that the sound of the crickets is causing the concussion specifically. They could be just causing the sound. Yeah, because as this doctor was pointing out, sounds can't cause your head to shake or cause these symptoms that we know of.
Speaker: Sound as we understand it, no. A December 2020 study was presented by the National Academy of Sciences. I'm sorry. This study suggested that it was not sound but microwaves. Oh God. Well, it's not a Wi -Fi. Some people think they're allergic to Wi -Fi.
Speaker: Uh, I joke that I'm allergic to technology, but Pat has a tendency to agree with me when I pick up the remote and it won't work for me, but it will work for him or whatever. God damn it. Um, some point to the Frey effect. So in the early 1960s, Alan H. Frey, a neuroscientist, documented that microwaves could trick the brain into hearing sounds that do not exist.
Speaker: I mean, I had to put it in there. It was interesting. I was like, I don't know. Microwaves tricken the brain. I don't understand microwaves, but I don't know. I don't think they could necessarily do that. But apparently that discovery led to a quote, arms race of sorts between the Soviet Union and the U .S. to create microwave weapons.
Speaker: Ian Boyd, a professor of aerospace engineering wrote, it's plausible that at just the right wavelength, an electromagnetic beam could be projected over hundreds of yards to create the symptoms seen in Havana syndrome incidents.
Speaker: So possible, I guess. Yeah. As he says, possible. Continuing the quote, if this is the case, it's likely that these beams are interfering with the electrical functions of the brain and the central nervous system. But like, why wouldn't it be impacting like residents and tourists and yeah, everyone?
Speaker: I guess it's continuing the theory that it's a targeted attack, yeah. But how would you contain it? If you're sending it over hundreds of miles or whatever you decide, how would you contain that, right? And then, yeah, to their next point. However, quote, the State Department has stressed that each possible cause remains speculative and no such weapon's ever been found.
Speaker: Um, and quote, many scientists argue that the microwave weapon theory is implausible while the US military has tested crowd controlled devices that use powerful microwaves that can travel long distances. They are exceedingly large and work by heating people's skin from the outside in a microwave weapon. What the fuck?
Speaker: I know! Fuck the U .S. You're just microwaving people on the street. I'm gonna cook your skin. Why does anybody test this shit? Oh my god. You're cooking people alive now? It would! That's what they're saying. You're terrible. It's bullshit. It's a microwave weapon capable of injuring the brain if it could even be concealed and presumably first fry the victim's flesh.
Speaker: So it's probably not microwaves. That was a quote right from the New York Times, by the way, that you're welcome. God. Okay. So still others assert that these reports show insignificant brain damage symptoms, saying that the tests performed to judge their balance, hearing, memory and other cognitive functions were skewed and that they showed results in a normal range.
Speaker: So I don't know. I don't know what kind of tests we are using to judge this, but some people seem to think that maybe we're blowing it out of proportion a little. I don't know. It doesn't sound like the, ooh, I had a brain fart like moment, range. If you forget how to math, like just math in general. Oh God. Yeah.
Speaker: It's not like you forgot like a word and it's on the tip of your tongue. Like you forgot how to do math. Right, right. And when I forget a word, I'm like, well, I do drink and smoke. So it's my own fault. But yeah, this is scary. So, oh, here we go. My favorite.
Speaker: the theory of mass psychological illness, aka mass hysteria, and sometimes referred to as functional illness, apparently. They just like to give it all sorts of names. Yeah, I hadn't heard that either until I was doing this research. They're like, yeah, they're saying it's a
Speaker: psychiatric illness other than an organic disorder um i just i'm having a hard time reading my own notes they say that people can experience sickness brought on by a perceived threat so like yeah you're you're so scared you are making yourself sick i guess it's what you can do
Speaker: I do believe that, but I don't love when they say it's a whole group of people doing it together, like it's this contagious thing. No. Yeah, I hate it when they just say mass hysteria, or sometimes they just, when it's just a very small group, that's when you'll hear, um, fallia de, when it's like one or two people, because they're saying, oh, it's one or two people experiencing the same psychosis.
Speaker: yeah and i'm like that's just lazy because other than that they have like no other explanation for mass hysteria and all that they're like well we don't know why it happens but yeah or how or it bothers me
Speaker: So a little bit more, I have a Robert Vallaw professor of neurology at the University of California who said that such illnesses have occurred for centuries and continue to occur on a regular basis around the world. He said, for example, as telephones became widely available at the turn of the 20th century, numerous telephone operators became sick with concussion -like symptoms attributed to acoustic shock.
Speaker: oh okay i if that's true i didn't know like that they didn't like maybe experience symptoms just getting used to telephones stick shock i just can't imagine like any volume of anything near your ear giving you a concussion though i can see it giving you hearing loss or like ear damage or inner ear damage or whatever but a concussion
Speaker: That's right. That's like physical damage coming from a physiological... That's your like brain literally moving inside of your freaking skull. Like at a very fast rate. I loved when they called it the immaculate concussion because I'm like, whoa, yeah, they're like seeing evidence of trauma where there's no outward trauma. And that's weird. Yeah.
Speaker: You think all the people that go to heavy metal concerts would all have immaculate concussions then? Oh, exactly. The DJs? Hello. They listen to fucking music so loud all the time. So weird. No, and it's not something like...
Speaker: the cte or whatever that they get from football you know things where you're like have repeated yeah trauma or concussions to your head or whatever sports you know sports i clearly understand them very well
Speaker: But just one of our other experts said, I wince when I hear the word psychogenic, says John Stone. Cool name. A neurologist at the University of Edinburgh. It creates a false impression about what these disorders are. They're like depression or a migraine. They happen in that gray area where the brain and mind intersect.
Speaker: So I guess he's more on the side of it's a mix of psychological and physical. Yeah. So there's
Speaker: Um a little bit more that I have on more of the symptoms just because it's so varying from person to person it seems like. Yeah there was a Tina Onifer, a career foreign officer stationed in Havana in March 2017 and she said she was washing dishes one day when it hit her.
Speaker: I felt like I was being struck with something, pain that I had never felt before in my life, mostly in my head and in my eyes. It was as if I had been seized by some invisible hand and couldn't move. Yep. Yeah, not fun. And two of her colleagues, a couple named Kate Husband and Doug Ferguson, they worked for the State Department in Havana also.
Speaker: They also experienced neurological symptoms. Kate says, the way the doctor boiled it down for me, he said, well, it's like you aged, you know, 20, 25 years all at once. Right? That's awful. I don't want to be told that ever. She was diagnosed with, quote, acquired brain injury related to a directional phenomenon exposure.
Speaker: I don't know. I don't even know what that means. A directional phenomena exposure. I don't think they knew what to call it. It's what it sounds like to me. But yes, that's what they apparently said. Acquired brain injury.
Speaker: And a number of those who have suffered Havana syndrome have been treated, that's some good news, at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center where they treat soldiers who have brain injuries from bombs in combat. It's true. I'm a diplomat. I sat at like an embassy and I need to be treated as if I stood next to a bomb explosion.
Speaker: Isn't that crazy? They did not sign on for that. No. Oh my god. They brought their families with them. They clearly didn't sign on for that. No. And then Kate and her husband who had the piercing noise symptom and has now retired a medical disability, she still suffers a sort of like a vertical, like a balance issue or something that affects her balance and a mental fog.
Speaker: The cognitive issues are multilayered. Some of it is executive functioning, as they put it. They said I had a real deficit. Now I live with a notebook, a calendar that's open in the center of my space at all times." But they continue to advocate and speak out for other victims, so they're trying to help.
Speaker: I like that. And it's actually getting more exposure nowadays I think because there have been more cases around the world.
Speaker: And of course now we're talking about it. So clearly there are 5 million listeners. We'll hear about it. Our big platform with our white privilege over here. No, I'm just kidding. I'm not, I'm woke, you know. But no, it's been detected in other places, which I thought was interesting. Apparently as recent as this year, an outbreak in Hanoi. I can't remember if that's how you say it.
Speaker: but Vietnam delayed Vice President Kamala Harris' visit in August 2021 by a few hours. Oh, so she was going to come there and then they heard reports of it and so they delayed her arrival for a few hours and then apparently two American diplomats were evacuated at that time from Vietnam. Weird.
Speaker: It's not just Havana anymore, Havana syndrome. Yeah, Havana syndrome in Vietnam, one. I know. It's like all the freaking variants. It's Havana syndrome 2 .0. I caught the microwave disease. The microwave variant, oh god.
Speaker: But also, US diplomats in China, again, the US diplomats, I don't know, but they did, with the Canadian ones, that makes me think it's not a tax. Not to give my theory here too early, but like, it was Canadians affected too. And generally, we're quite well -liked around the world. Yeah, we're all, we're normally okay.
Speaker: Yeah. People, Americans pretend to be us by putting little Canada flags pins when they go traveling abroad. I mean, at least when we do shit, we normally at least semi apologize. Oh, true. Not that we never get up to shit, but yeah, we'll say we're sorry. Um, so US diplomats in China began reporting symptoms in early 2018 and
Speaker: Uh, I have a quote in 2019, a white house official reported experiencing debilitating symptoms while walking her dog in a Virginia suburb of Washington. And these were all very similar symptoms. They were Havana syndrome symptoms. Um, sometime in 2021, dozens, uh, I didn't get the exact month or whatever, but dozens of us personnel stationed in Vienna.
Speaker: including children again, suffered Havana syndrome symptoms. State Department confirmed they are investigating in July. I guess it was earlier in the year. Weird. So strange.
Speaker: And no causes or suspects have been found in that case either, although some people had noted that Vienna was hosting talk between the US and Iran on reviving the 2015 Iran deal before these symptoms in Vienna began. I don't want to say attacks, but before these symptoms in Vienna began. It's all about the Americans.
Speaker: That's right. And well, if they were talking about something as interesting as an Iran nuclear deal, then IDK, man. IDK, I do not know. And then finally, I know, the last few places that I had reports from, other reports had come from Berlin, Serbia, Australia, Taiwan, Colombia, and London of Havana syndrome.
Speaker: And in September 2020, President Biden signed a bill into law to compensate the victims called the Havana Act that would improve their access to medical care. Wow. It's being recognized. Someone's... That's crazy. Getting them the health care they need at least. Oh my god. Even if it's Grandpa Joe Biden. Yeah.
Speaker: And that is Savannah syndrome that's so weird the entire time all I could think of was I Can't remember if I had told you and Pat about this movie block island sound It sounds familiar Sound or whatever that like they hear on the radio all these fishermen on like this island
Speaker: Oh, Jesus. Uh, maybe? No? I've heard of creepy lighthouse movies. No, this wasn't like a lighthouse. Okay, then no, I don't think so. It was pretty good. Just the sound wave thing made me think of that. Because it's like a specific station you had to like be listening to out on the water or whatever.
Speaker: And what was it called? Block Island Sound. God, that sounds familiar though. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you said you had seen it, so... Oh god. Well, I always have to ask Pat if we've seen something, so that goes to show you anything. That's how much I remember the movies we watch. So, um, should we tell them what they're getting next week?
Speaker: I already forgot what we decided. Oh, okay. I have it open in front of me. Okay, I don't know anymore. It's in one of my 10 ,000 notebooks. New Zealand crimes. We're doing another true crime episode. So true crime featuring Taika Watiti.
Speaker: That would be amazing. Trip Crime brought to you by Korg. I'm Korg. I'm Korg. I'm Korg. I'm Korg.
Speaker: I love time. Up on the dick. He's the best. Yes, take him on TV. He's like my hero. I'm glad you get to watch him in a free guy. I wanted you to see that as such a good movie. Love it. Well, that was our mini tangent for the episode. You're welcome, guys. We didn't have a lot of fun. Yeah. Oh my god.
Speaker: Yeah. Alright, well thanks for listening and catch us next week for New Zealand Crimes. That's right, alright. Keep it cryptic. Bye!
Speaker: This has been Castles Encrypteds. You can listen to our podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Cast, and our YouTube channel.
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