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Episode 6 - Transit in Edmonton (with Emily)
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Emily Stremel of Edmonton Transit Riders (ETR) joins us in how transit advocacy came to be in Alberta's capital city and the challenges and strengths the region has in making transit great for everyone. We also learn about her insights into the music scene in Toronto and Montréal.
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https://edmontontransitriders.org/
https://www.instagram.com/edmontontransitriders
https://www.tiktok.com/@edmontontransitriders
https://bsky.app/profile/etriders.bsky.social
https://www.linkedin.com/company/edmonton-transit-riders/
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to Dwell Time. This is Canada's number one podcast to talk about transit advocacy. My name is Dennis Agar. I am with Movement, the Transit Rider Group in Vancouver.
00:00:23
Speaker
And my co-host is Rodney. I am the co-lead of TriTag, TriCities Transport Action Group in Waterloo. But I'm currently doing my co-op in Toronto now. I just moved here this month. And I'm going to be with Bike Share for four months, which is exciting. And we have a special guest from Edmonton.
00:00:43
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Emily. And I'm the chair of Edmonton Transit Riders, which is a transit advocacy group in Edmonton, Alberta. i am where really ahead i'm thrilled to be here. You were about to say thrilled, but I'm thrilled. So I'm getting my thrilled in first.
00:01:01
Speaker
ah i I am especially thrilled. I'm even more thrilled because i have visited Edmonton a few times. And one of the times was to talk in a room of people about they're like maybe starting a transit rider group.
00:01:18
Speaker
And is this Emily, were you there in that room? I was not there. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I was there like three weeks later after they put the first call for people out.
00:01:29
Speaker
So is it fair to say that it like it kind of worked? It kind of worked. This came out of it? Okay,
Origins of Edmonton Transit Riders
00:01:35
Speaker
great. yeah So um congrats. I mean, no i in no way should I take any credit for it It was really just like to like have a discussion about how things went in Vancouver. And at that point, we were so new. So like I had almost no information to share, just kind of vibes and like intentions. I really, you know, Councillor Jans, Councillor Michael Jans in Edmonton was the one that brought me house. And I think he saw the need for a group like this. He saw it succeed in other cities. And so he should get some of the kudos. But honestly, it really just comes down to the people that are stepping up and giving their hard-earned volunteer time to like make this a reality. So kudos go to you, Emily.
Transit Advocacy: Challenges and Successes
00:02:17
Speaker
Whoa, thank you. i was about to ask if you like were expecting us to hang like a ah portrait or something of you, if you ever get an office. But, you know.
00:02:27
Speaker
I'll put that on the table just in case. Yeah. In like a socialist kind of realism. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like looking to the horizon. Yeah. Just like the future. To the Dennis portrait every time you walk into the office.
00:02:41
Speaker
I'm saluting right now. Emily's doing the face. Yeah. It's a flag. We need a Dennis Agar flag.
00:02:50
Speaker
stand for the anthem and kneel for the flag. yes ah stand Wait, stand for the, I don't know what the line is. Stop. You're gonna make, give me a big head.
Vancouver and Toronto Transit Updates
00:03:02
Speaker
Next stop Churchill connector. This is a valley-like train. Please transfer at the Churchill connector to the Churchill station for a capital or a Metro line train. News items. um First off, I'm just really proud of what's happening on 49th Avenue in Vancouver. It's a corridor that it moves twice as many people on transit as via rail.
00:03:23
Speaker
It's a really important transit corridor. in our region and it doesn't go downtown. It serves like just a lot of working families and and university and and all sorts of stuff. I have made it my life's mission to get bus lanes on 49th Avenue. And when we started movement, we put really a lot of emphasis there. We like put up posters before movement even had a brand and just said like, Hey, tell us what you think about the 49 bus route and 200 people just like immediately filled out a Google form that was unsigned and like had no context.
00:03:55
Speaker
And anyway, TransLink or sorry, the city of Vancouver and TransLink last week showed us their plans for bus lanes on 49. And I'm like, so excited.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Also the the like more, the double, the via rail ridership statistic is so random. but How did you, is that, I feel like that's maybe like a secretly super low bar.
00:04:17
Speaker
Well, like an entire country's, you know, public transit, public like train network. I just wanted to give people a sense of scale because like 49th is like a pretty suburban. But what's the number? I want to know the number.
00:04:29
Speaker
i you forar i think I think it's like 15-ish thousand boardings a day VIA Rail 30-ish thousand thirty ish thousand on the That's a lot, a lot. Not to like downplay that, but in my like Toronto head, it's like, okay, like average bus, average average bit busy, average busy Toronto bus route.
00:04:53
Speaker
right Well, in my Edmonton head, that's really i impressive. a lot It is a lot. I should go back to to my York Region Transit head where like that's like insane, crazy numbers. We all have very different contexts, which is, I think, so cool that we're meeting and talking and just like trading notes because there's always more ridership to get. Yeah, it's true.
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah. But the other piece of news is that in Surrey, Surrey is a place that has had very wranglings around transit technology. There was a light rail planned and then a mayor was elected who said, I'm going to make a SkyTrain and then he succeeded. So last two nights ago,
00:05:33
Speaker
Surrey Council's voting on design for BRT. It's like a 30% design and they're voting on whether to tell TransLink, keep going, go to 100% design on this bus rapid transit. And it passed 5-4. It was a squeaker because the party in power in Surrey is supporting bus rapid transit. They're full steam ahead on that plan. One of the other parties said, no, we want SkyTrain.
00:05:57
Speaker
And one of the other parties said, no we want light rail. And those were the anti votes. So it's like it's like Surrey is in the sunken place in terms of like these technological squabbles that we often see in transit where it's like, no, I want BRT. No, I want Skytrain. No, I want this. And it was frustrating to see that manifest on the council floor. Wait, like i was clear anything that the opposition guy pardon didn't they already get their Skytrain though? Or they want another Skytrain on like the like L corridor?
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So Surrey, um, it has a SkyTrain under construction on Fraser highway. This BRT that's in design right now is on, um, uh, King George Boulevard. Okay. Yeah. And because there's so much transit ridership in Surrey, like it deserves its own rapid transit network, honestly. And so, yeah, the BRT is already partially designed. It's going to be cheap and fast. And the other parties were kind of like wanting something beyond that. And,
00:06:53
Speaker
Anyway, i'm I'm definitely in the school of like, we've got a bird in the hand, let's just do the BRT and we can use that to set the conditions to push for the funding for Skytrain.
00:07:04
Speaker
And then we'll, in the meantime, while we're you know working on Skytrain, to easily take a decade, we'll have BRT for the whole time. Nice. That's so much exciting stuff in Vancouver.
00:07:19
Speaker
Thanks for letting me share my news. i feel like this might make it into the episode. We'll see if Carrie-Odd decides to make the cut. We should also do our introduction. What's that? Rodney, wait, do you have news?
00:07:30
Speaker
York Region Transit is doing their like annual service plan for next year. and they're just, I mean, it's just adding more service hours, increasing frequency, which is nice to see.
00:07:40
Speaker
um They're like really trying to get to their frequent transit network. so Kudos, because they are they're always the example I use as a place that doesn't have a good frequent transit network. they're getting there on on some streets and already there on some streets. And then exciting Hamilton, just like they chose their, they did their like RFP for their LRT and like they chose a, don't know, what is it called? Like winner, a contractor, they, I don't know. Yeah. and That's their words. But yeah, that's exciting. The Hamilton LRT is actually happening after decades of, it's happening, actually not. It's happening, actually not.
00:08:19
Speaker
They deserve something. And I just started my work at Bikeshare and it's been really cool. It's my first like micro mobility job. I've just been in like transit and transportation before. And this is literally my third day. And it's honestly like before I was deciding between working here in Hamilton Street Railway and like Hamilton Street Railway would have been cool as well, but this is so unique. Like, no other job would I be biking outside in the middle of the day.
00:08:47
Speaker
ah we biked to, like, the maintenance warehouse today. and got a tour of where all the magic happens. I got to see some of the new e-bikes. Yeah, it's, like, super cool. The team is, like, the office is amazing. and Everyone's super friendly. Yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
I'm really looking forward to planning bike share, bike
Edmonton's Transit Challenges
00:09:05
Speaker
share dock stations. That's awesome. Do you want to also tell us about what you're doing on Church Street? Yeah.
00:09:11
Speaker
Last, oh my God, I was, I was like kind of working on this while I also took a trip to Europe. I went to, i was kind of insane. It was like two and a half weeks and I went to London, Amsterdam, Utrecht, Lisbon, Porto, Bilbao, San Sebastian, Madrid, Barcelona, Dublin.
00:09:29
Speaker
um that's awesome but yeah and i actually learned a lot like they they do lot of really interesting things with their streets anyways yeah with church street it's a village it's a village it's a street that goes through toranoske village and i'm working with the local city councilor and the bia and the Residents Association and Pride Toronto and all these other organizations to try to, avoid using the word shut down, like open the street to pedestrians for two two blocks from Wellesley to Alexander.
00:10:02
Speaker
And it just passed unanimously in Toronto East York Community Council. We had like multiple letters of support. We had like over a dozen speakers in support, but now it has to be approved at like citywide council on May 20th.
00:10:16
Speaker
I was actually circulating like a second petition about that which will like reach more wider set of counselors and like different city staff and I was like kind of worried because like the website right now is like maybe there's too much traffic and it's not the petition when you like press submit it's not working and I'm like panicking. But it's OK, we still have like seven more days. So that's exciting. And if that passes, then the pedestrianization will happen from mid-June to mid-August for two months. And that's super exciting. But there's still a lot of logistical things that have to work out, have to be worked out.
00:10:50
Speaker
At the Toronto East York Community Council meeting, there was like a semi-negative report. Memo from staff saying like, oh, this is too fast. Oh, what about emergencies? Oh, what about deliveries? Oh, what about waste management? And it's like, yeah, these are valid concerns.
00:11:04
Speaker
But like literally every other major city in the world has figured it out, including in Canada, like Montreal and even Calgary. i don't know if does Edmonton have any pedestrian streets?
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah, we've done it a few times. Like there was a there was a big push for 102nd Avenue to stay pedestrian only because it was for like two years after the LRT opened. And then they just like kind of were like, nah, but there are a few places that, you know, it's it's kind of gone and then kept it for. Yeah. So there's time totally ways to do things and be creative. But yeah, there's like a very, we're very risk averse country and province and city. Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
But yeah, no, it's, it's, moved if if it gets approved at this final city council meeting, I'm pretty confident in it. Right. Staff answer to council, unless it's something like super, if it's just not feasible, but like, this is definitely something that's feasible. Yeah. Exciting. a lot going on. Yeah. Well done. It is really exciting.
00:12:05
Speaker
I feel like just asking Emily, do you have any news to share? Yeah. Yeah, I guess I do have news. so Edmonton is on a four year budget cycle, which means that only once in a council term do they do a big budget discussion. And so our big and by our I mean Edmonton transit riders big push right now is just making sure that. all the transit items get to budget deliberations.
Evolving Transit Culture in Edmonton
00:12:30
Speaker
So in order for that to happen, reports have to go through committee and then a motion has to be made at committee to bring this to council. And then the motion has to go to council asking for a budget package and then the budget package has to get to budget and then they have to allocate money to it on budget. So it's a very lengthy multi-step process. The only time in that process where council hears direct from people is at committee. So even though the budget deliberations aren't happening until December, it's like now where we're trying to get in front of committees and talk to people and stuff. So our bus fleet is in a very bad state right now. There was a report that was put to council where 56% of the buses are in poor or very poor condition asset wise. Oh boy. So that's not great. The average retirement age for buses in North America is 15. Edmonton is retiring buses at 24 years old.
00:13:32
Speaker
ha so And that's with all of the like cold weather. I don't know if they like get under a lot more strain than other cities, I would imagine. ah Yeah, I mean, surely like salt and stuff. each Yeah, personal vehicle. So I imagine it's the same on buses. And yeah, so there is like a midlife refurbishment program that they've been doing where it's like you throw a bunch of money into the bus kind of around that eight to 10 period mark and then a second midlife refurbishment, which. they're not recommending doing anymore, which is basically like keep this bus on life support.
00:14:03
Speaker
So a report went to committee yesterday with kind of the renewal options and scenario three, the targeted renewal scenario suggested getting 75 buses a year over the four-year budget cycle, which is the most, the biggest amount of buses that ETS can actually like take in because they need to do like aftermarket adjustments and stuff when buses come in. So yeah, the mayor... Andrew Knack actually was the one that made the motion to advance the targeted renewal scenario for 300 buses over four years to council to then go to budget. And it was supported by all four members of the committee and the other counselors that were there all spoke really in favor of it and talked about how important it was. So that's really exciting.
00:14:49
Speaker
That is not even growth buses. That's just survival. That is just survival. that if If we didn't get any replacement bustles, there would be a 13% service cut.
00:15:01
Speaker
like That's how dire the situation is. So is council, like just it sounds like the mayor is like people are supportive of transit or only support. Yeah.
00:15:13
Speaker
It's a generally, it's generally a pretty supportive council, um especially most of the returning counselors, like the mayor, Marnack was saying that, yeah, you know, over the past four months, transit has been his primary way of getting around. Wow. I actually saw one of the counselors,
Transit Narratives Across Canadian Cities
00:15:30
Speaker
the counselor for my ward actually riding her bike today while I was riding home from work. yeah, You know, I'd say overall, the council is pretty friendly to transit and active transportation. i know this is transit podcast, but our darling transportation minister in Alberta came out saying that, oh, well, you know, we don't want to have bike lanes anymore because, you know, they take away space from cars. And yeah, council is pretty outspoken that this is just a, this is just a waste of time to even be talking about this. So that was pretty cool to hear.
00:16:03
Speaker
Why do you think of it? I remember that Edmonton, like I went there for a transit conference, aque a Q2 transit conference once. And that during that time, the old mayor used to be a bus operator.
00:16:16
Speaker
hmm. um Why do you think Edmonton has such a I feel like it still has a lot of like car centric sprawl. Why do you think council and the mayor is still like pretty transit supportive?
00:16:26
Speaker
Man, I think it's a few reasons. Like i I think we're kind of finally getting out of the sentiment that Edmonton isn't a city yet. You know, you guys both mentioned the numbers of ridership that you have, which is insane compared to the um amount of ridership that Edmonton has. But at the same time, like Edmonton has well over a million people now.
Impact of Growth on Transit Planning
00:16:47
Speaker
So we can't pretend that we're the 300,000 people in some of the other prairie cities.
00:16:52
Speaker
So I do think it's partially that. I think it's partially a financial thing, right? Like it is cheaper to fund transit and fund active transportation than is to pay for roads infinitely.
00:17:04
Speaker
But yeah, i think I think it's really like, oh, we... you have to actually be a real city now. Real cities actually, you know, people need to get around by bus. So I think that's- Edmonton is special in two ways in my mind. Well, first of all, that just like compared to similar cities in the US, Edmonton has been way more successful at getting transit riders on the system. And also you, if I remember correctly, you were the first Canadian city to get to a hundred percent ridership recovery after COVID, which we still haven't gotten to. I didn't know Edmonton. That's crazy. I also know that like Edmonton is like super progressive on like housing reform. Some of the most like, yes yeah ah yeah. Really good housing reform, really good support for council on that as well. Like multi-place reforms and yeah whatnot. And yeah, it's just crazy to think, no offense Edmonton, but like they're, they're, they're pulling a lot of weight and it's like,
00:17:57
Speaker
You wouldn't think that such a ah ah smaller prairie city would be kind of like head so ahead of the curve on so many things, which is amazing to see. I love to see. I also think the fact that it is like in the stage of growth that it's at is really like allowing for some of the stuff to happen, right? Like we can make these choices now. It is sad. Like I was, I was in Toronto and Montreal, uh, not that long ago, actually.
Emily's Transit Experiences in Toronto and Montreal
00:18:23
Speaker
Um, and this is my first time ever visiting Toronto. So that was exciting, but you know, like we don't have his old buildings.
00:18:30
Speaker
Sorry. When'd you visit Toronto? In like the end of April. how did How did you, how did you like it? What you there for? I was there for a concert. I actually went to a concert in Toronto and Montreal. Same show, two days in a row. Which, wait, I think we talked about the poo. Okay, it's a band called Health and they're co-headlining with a band called Carpenter Brew and they're like a metal noise band and Carpenter Brew is like a cyberpunk electronic type thing. um I will say, like I really like Montreal. I've been there i think three times now. So I was, you know, and I feel like kind of ah Toronto kind of gets a bad rep sometimes.
00:19:10
Speaker
I liked Toronto quite a bit. We stayed on Danforth, which was nice. But also the crowd in Toronto was way better. for this show that we went to. Montreal takes that. but Yeah, honestly, like they were moshing the whole time. There was like constant crowd surfing and then yeah, Montreal, they were just kind of like polite and hanging out.
00:19:33
Speaker
Oh my God. Right? It was so weird. Just totally defeating the stereotypes of both cities, but I'll take it as a former Ontarian. Yeah, I know. I was really quite shocked. um I also had some really good gluten-free dumplings in Toronto, so that was good. Oh, I've never kite came across gluten-free dumplings. Where did you get them? Is it somewhere down here? Mo Hutton Garden on Danforth. Free plug. Free plug. Okay, so we are this.
00:20:02
Speaker
Next stop, Health Sciences Jubilee Station. This is the final station for this train.
Community Engagement and Transit Culture in Edmonton
00:20:07
Speaker
To continue traveling south, please transfer at Health Sciences for the next southbound Capital Line train.
00:20:13
Speaker
No, i'm I'm really eager to hear about your journey in Edmonton. I'm just like, I'm so thrilled to kind of watch it from afar. I'm a subscriber to your email list, but I would love to know like for you and for the rest of your team, like what drove you to the, to these, these drastic measures? Like why commit so much of your time to do this? What, what is driving you all?
00:20:37
Speaker
Well, there's an easy answer, which I'm not going to say, cause we're all thinking it. Yeah.
00:20:43
Speaker
But I, so for me personally, like, I guess I'll start there. i came on board after the email went out ah from Jans saying, you know, people are kind of interested in starting this group. Is anyone interested? So then I got on board.
00:20:58
Speaker
I had been living in the city for about two years. I grew up in Sherwood Park, which is the ah bedroom community just east of Edmonton. And i have very mixed feelings about having grown up there. It's very car oriented. There is not a lot of transit. Like there is some, but it's actually been cut back sort of since I lived there.
00:21:20
Speaker
i grew up in a family where just like getting driven everywhere was normal and it was pretty isolating. Like i found it really challenging to even just go around Sherwood Park, go shopping by myself, you know, when before I, before was old enough to drive.
00:21:37
Speaker
There is quite an extensive trail network there, which is nice because you can, you know, bike or rollerblade.
Strategies for Transit Funding and Advocacy
00:21:42
Speaker
But yeah, more than anything, I just found it quite isolating. There wasn't a lot to do. And a huge part of that was just the land use and, you know, the fact that everything's so spread out.
00:21:53
Speaker
Then, yeah, when I was pretty young, I had the opportunity to go to Europe a few times and, you know, sort of see how things are in other places in the world. And I think that really like, yeah, it got me excited about what's possible in urban environments.
00:22:11
Speaker
And I also just think a huge part of it, my hatred for neoliberalism. Yeah. yeah That's a lot. That's a lot. So I think that was. School education is that like everything is drawn back to like everything sucks because of neoliberalism. Yes. then No, literally I came to the, you know, I hate like neoliberalism first and then the transit advocacy later because i felt like transit advocacy was a really good way to do something tangible to make the world into a bit more of a place where people can live and with dignity and, you know, live together and have a good quality of life. So that yeah, I just kind of saw the need for it.
00:22:51
Speaker
That's so funny because both we were been talking to multiple people and both me and Dennis are like the same, like grew up in a more suburban, less transit friendly place and then visited other places that were a lot more transit dense and friendly and and having that realization. And yeah, it's so cool to see so many transit nerds actually came from places that are kind of not well served by transit and dream for we all dream for better transit and what you said about like making a difference i think that's why and really drawn to transit because it's both like an environmental thing and a social justice and then racial justice and like also like just fiscal responsibility of of spending city money it's like it touches on like every single thing that i'm interested in and i think social impact wise
00:23:35
Speaker
And also I was just searching up Sherwood Park because I didn't know where it was. And that's funny because it's like, with a population of 75,000, Sherwood Park has enough people to be Alberta's sixth largest city, but it retains the status of a hamlet.
00:23:50
Speaker
know why a tax laundering scheme many um says the refineries are technically all in sherwood park which is part of a special county called strathcona county and if sherwood park became a like town or a city then it would no longer be able to get the the revenue money from the refineries so they have to stay like the world's largest hamlet yep that sounds about right that's weird and you can just like choose like you're like a lot of places don't you like automatically become like a different thing once you like reach a threshold just say no you too can remain a hamlet forever if you just say no i guess doctors hate them with this one secret trick you can be still a hamlet
00:24:45
Speaker
Okay, so we we got a bit of your motivations. where and Tell us a bit about the process of getting this organization off the ground. like How has that been? like Are they people that you already knew? Are you meeting a bunch of new people? like What's that? I'm meeting a bunch of new people. Like I said, there was kind of a group that came from that transit camp that Michael Jans put on and that you spoke at, Dennis. And I just kind of weaseled my way in from there. And yeah, it was like, it was really just meeting a lot of new people for me.
00:25:17
Speaker
One of the coolest things that happened is we did have some people really early on that are really involved with other urbanist groups in the city, mostly Paths for People, which is a group that focuses on like pedestrian experience and cycling a little bit, but mostly mostly like pedestrian experience. And so they had some of the skills that you know kind of helped get us set up, that got us email accounts, got us a website, got us you know figured out as a nonprofit type thing. So that was all very nice to have people that were just very willing to help lead the way in that way. um And then the fact that we had a couple people from Paths for People on board, they also had experience kind of dealing with grants and just getting like a little bit of money so we could get started. Which meant that we got to put on a really big event for a launch party. um So this event was chartering a LRT train that was donated by ETS because they were really excited about this. And there is a station that is completely constructed that is not open yet. So this is in Blatchford, which is in the old airport area. And it was built at the same time as one of the other stations, just like that was getting a permanent move from a temporary move from the Nate station. And it's not open because the development has not really caught
Future Plans for Edmonton Transit Riders
00:26:42
Speaker
up yet. Like they're developing that area, but there's just not enough
00:26:45
Speaker
Like it's it's like a field of dirt right now. So, you know, nobody would use it. But yeah, we basically just got to like take a train ride down to that station and a ton of people signed up. And if you go to Edmonton Transit Riders dot org, the picture of all of us at Blatchford Market. No, sorry. Blatchford Gate Station is the header of the website. And yeah, so we just had a lot of people that got really excited right away.
00:27:14
Speaker
I remember seeing this on social media on the Edmonton Transit Riders Instagram and I was like, this is so exciting. I wish I was there. FOMO. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. so And yeah, we had some really great support for that as well. um a lot of people got really excited. as We got some support from the city and from counselors who just, you know, were really excited to sort of like see a group um really start to speak for transit riders because, you know, there are a lot of bike works in Edmonton. There's paths for people, but there really wasn't anybody involved.
00:27:49
Speaker
that had sustained a presence as a transit advocacy group for any period of time? I mean, what's the thing that stands out the most to me about that story and about the story of ETR in general is that there seems to be a lot of high-level institutional support for what you all are doing. It's like the people in power really want a group to kind of hold them to account and to rally support for better transit. like that's yeah I hope you don't take that for granted. Pretty awesome.
Expanding Transit Advocacy Groups
00:28:22
Speaker
It's wild.
00:28:22
Speaker
I mean, Edmonton has, you know, always kind of been a pioneering city for transit. um Like our LRT was the first to open in the early 70s. So kind of building off of that.
00:28:37
Speaker
energy, I think, has really is really been good. um But also just the fact that, yeah, I think we have some really amazing people on council and really amazing people in administration that are really interested in making sure that they are held to account and that transit is getting a fair cut.
00:28:56
Speaker
I think it's really hard because a lot of the public hearings that we have, as you know in many cities, are around housing and rezoning. And you get a lot of really negative voices coming out around um those topics because those are the people that have free time. Those are the people that have free time. are the people that have money. They're the people that don't have jobs that like eat away at their work days. So having a group that can finally like help speak up for transit, which is used by a lot of people who might have, you know,
00:29:26
Speaker
jobs where they can't take a day off to sit in a council chamber to speak for an item or you know, who might not know how to approach a counselor because, you know, they might not look like these people or might not sound like the people that are spending all these time in council chambers saying these like really negative things.
00:29:42
Speaker
Kind of having a group that raises those people and those voices a little bit, I think is really important. So that said, have you had any campaigns yet that have been somewhat adversarial towards the council? Or like, is there anything brewing? Like...
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah. What are you guys working cooking? Yeah. so budget. Edmonton has a four-year budget cycle and that is taking up a lot of our time. So the biggest thing right now is just trying to get things into the budget conversation. We just had a big talk about the bus fleet because our bus fleet is falling apart. So that's going to budget, but also talking about a few other things like bus rapid transit and transit priority measures, which There is a bus rapid transit plan on the table that we ah is currently in concept design and has been in concept design for a long time and a lot of money. So we'd really like to move that into the detailed design and potentially construction process. But with the cost of the bus renewal, that's looking a little bit...
00:30:47
Speaker
not great but i'm still hoping for at least a portion of that i mean there are some really big winds happening like there is valley line west is very much under construction and on time so that's a whole other portion of our lrt that is going to be opened hopefully in a couple of years out past west edmonton mall an lrt in canada on time on budget I don't know her. Edmonton. well again Yeah. Crazy. It's, it's kind of insane actually. um
00:31:20
Speaker
There's also the fact that the Valley line Southeast and Valley line West had different contracts. Like they were, you know, the joys of P3s, right? So Valley line Southeast was a design build, operate, maintain contract. And Valley line West was just a design build contract.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah. And Valleyline West, that group is kind of doing way better, in my opinion. um There were a ton of problems with the Valleyline Southeast. It got delayed by like three years because like all the wires had to be replaced and there were a ton of cracks in the bridge. And also there was a mysterious concrete block on the bottom of the river. it was like a whole thing. Yeah.
00:32:06
Speaker
So yeah, that got delayed quite a bit. And Valley Line West is hopefully not seeing nearly as many delays. There's also an extension of the Capital Line in the south, which is kind of going along. So yeah, there's there's a few big projects that are really exciting. But back to your question, Dennis, about if we've been adversarial, I think the number one thing that we are not even like adversarial with the Edmonton like administration but they need to be meaner. They need to ask for more stuff because there have been so many times when they've come out with reports that have gone to council that are just like, oh you know, inflation's gotten really bad. So we have to like cut back all the slots in this bus garage because we can't afford it anymore. And meanwhile, you just have like other departments being like, inflation got really bad. You need to give us like another hundred million dollars immediately or else this isn't going to work. It's like, no come on you need to show that transit is like pushing for their wins too we can't just keep saying oh well you know we know that the budget's going to be really tight so like maybe you shouldn't go for the best option for transit just like in case yeah you always have to like that's a dynamic count that exists in vancouver too to chip away at your thing so you kind of have to like even like over ask at the beginning to let it muddle down yeah Yeah. And it's kind of maybe a Canadian phenomenon of being a little bit modest, like in those rooms. I don't think necessarily everyone realizes that there are a lot of situations where in a municipality, all of the different departments get together and they kind of ask for their thing. They like shoot their shot. And there's ah a certain amount of like innovation that they have to do to try and get the most out of those negotiations. Like they have to be assertive, but they also have to build relationships with different people. It's just like anything else in life. Like, is this only a Canadian thing? Yeah. If the transit group is being a bit meek, then yeah, that's, that's what transit's going to get.
00:34:05
Speaker
How do they do like different department budgeting in other places? I don't know. I mean, I just think people don't necessarily think about how that stuff happens, but that's certainly how it is inside the city of Vancouver.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, and I also do think there are differences across Canadian cities, right? Like, I have personally been really enjoying the multi-part series on Rob Ford, the YouTube um series that has come out, which is now at three hours and only two out of three parts done. wow It's really good, though, because it talks about sort of the amalgamation of Toronto into the city and then, you know, his time as councillor his time as mayor.
00:34:45
Speaker
But talks a lot about like political issues and how the city of Toronto's city council works and like how people need to get on different sides. And, you know, in a lot of places, there still aren't parties at the municipal level. So, you know, those
Creative Engagement and Fundraising
00:35:00
Speaker
sorts of of um of relationship dynamics between councillors and between council and administration. And it is really different between cities.
00:35:10
Speaker
Trigger warning, Rob Ford, trigger warning, amalgamation. Where does Edmonton have ah local city parties? Like the UCP made it legal to have parties just in the last election. And then there were parties. There was Better Edmonton, who did win seats. And then there was another one called Pace, who did not win seats. They were both pretty conservative.
00:35:35
Speaker
Better Edmonton, I think won four seats, lost the mayoral race. How many seats are on council? 13, including the mayor.
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, so not not many. Now that I say that, I'm scared that that's not the right number, which would be really embarrassing. But yeah, like so these parties existed, Edmonton, they had their website and stuff like that, and they all had their matching little signs, and it was you know really cute and everything. And then these candidates got in, and then all but one left the party like immediately.
00:36:11
Speaker
Oh, wow. Thanks for your support. Did something happen or was that their plan the whole the whole time? I think it was just their plan the whole time. And they were like, yeah, thanks for the money to run this race.
00:36:21
Speaker
So is there one one person left at the party? Yeah. That's like on council. ah law Okay. That's spicy. I didn't know that happened. Yeah, it was pretty funny. Actually, like um one of one of the counselors, Reed Clark, the bike works got in right away to take him on a on a
Building a National Transit Advocacy Network
00:36:40
Speaker
bike ride. And like his dad is a cyclist and he owns like a a sports team here. So or is the manager of a sports team here. And so, you know, like ah like an active guy.
00:36:51
Speaker
And so I went on this ride with them and then the next day he left the party. but And so like, I'm not saying it's because we took him on this awesome bike ride and showed him ah how cool cycling is in the city, but like, you can't tell me that was like that.
00:37:08
Speaker
Right? It's a valley line train to Millwood. Next stop Strather. What is your vision um for the future of ETR? Like what, like what's next for you all? More parties.
00:37:21
Speaker
No, genuinely more parties. Huge thing is just like something that i think is a problem with transit generally is people don't get excited about it.
00:37:33
Speaker
um Well, they do get excited about it, but that's just not happening in Edmonton yet. There's this study that um talked about people's like perceptions of public transit and how people based on happiness, like how happy people were using different modes, people would always rank public transit lower, not necessarily because it was actually worse, but because public transit is often seen as this like in between step. it's It's not like a forever choice. It's just what you're doing while you're waiting to save up for a car. It's just what you're doing, you know, but you're not like those other poor people that take transit. So really building a community that's like proud to be transit riders, I think is something that I really want to bring to Edmonton. um ETS is putting out a merch store this year. so That's going to be really exciting.
00:38:27
Speaker
ETR has also been doing some things to kind of like make transit more visible in the community. We've been doing the transit tracker project, which is based off of the project that a group in the States did where they use open source data to power custom built and 3D printed LED boards that you can put like whatever stop you want on and it gives you like a real time data feed.
00:38:52
Speaker
Wow. Which is really cool. So we've been getting those out to people and also to different businesses and like really trying to ramp that up a lot. We have a high school shop class that's going to be making us a bunch of frames to get these out into different places. And yeah, one of our one of our board members, Mike, is been just like phenomenal putting all of that together. But yeah, genuinely more parties. I really want to do a train rave or like a music festival where each like car on the train is like doing like has a different.
00:39:24
Speaker
person playing or whatever, something like that. Just like, yeah, just more fun stuff. We just did we just had our annual service plan released. ah ETS put it out in like March. And then at the end of April, we did our annual service plan awards. So ETS did like a presentation, just talked about like what happened last year, what's coming up this year. It's not all good news. Like we get more service. Our news was we can't get any more service and also we're broke. So, yeah.
00:39:55
Speaker
Our news was we're cutting Emily's bus route specifically by two minutes.
Concluding Thoughts and Future Aspirations
00:40:01
Speaker
I was mad about it. Targeted. Right? I booed. I booed loudly. its It was okay though. Heckly it was a lot of us. Because, yeah, then we did four stats-based awards and four community vote awards that were then awarded to the bus routes that got these awards. So, for example, we had a most improved on time performance award.
00:40:27
Speaker
um All of these awards were handmade with love by yours truly. um them Old trophy parts and the egregious amount of Coca-Cola flats that exist in my house. So for example, this on-time performance award was a Edmonton bus with Sonic the Hedgehog shoes and fins on it on a beautiful little like trophy stand. So that was like the vibe of the event.
00:40:54
Speaker
There was lots of like yaying and booing and not only was this just like a really fun way to get people involved and like, you know, having a good time, but we actually had like a few counselors attend and it was a good way to say, you know,
00:41:07
Speaker
These crowded buses, for example, mean that, oh, we need more service. We need more dedicated laneway in these areas. Oh, these unreliable buses mean that, oh, maybe we should get these cars out of traffic these buses out of traffic and these cars out of the way.
00:41:22
Speaker
So it was both like just a really fun community building event and also a good like way to advocate for things that we need in terms of like transit service.
00:41:33
Speaker
Killing multiple birds with multiple with one stone. It's so interesting to see all these different tactics across the country and across the world. I know TTC Riders does the like did a slowest bus award thing similar to that.
00:41:51
Speaker
like And all of those a lot of them were ones that had like dedicated lane plans, but a lot of opposition and were slowed down. I'm just such a strong believer in like what you're doing around building a culture for transit riders. Like it's it's so I think it's it's inevitable. Like it it has to happen if we're going to win.
00:42:13
Speaker
Right. Like like the movements that have. success that like really grow to like something like a part of pop culture have that element to it that are fun that people are happy they want to tell their friends about it they want to share that thing on Instagram or whatever it is and it's just so I guess thrilling that's the word of the day everyone thrilling thrilled to yeah it's thrilling to see it all happen in and Edmonton Reese Martin about building a transit culture as well and we talked a little bit more about the more like practical things of like
00:42:46
Speaker
right like when when you're like a business like not just having like saying like oh we have parking but like oh we're like on a station online too or like it's just we're on this bus route and like just the basic things of like expecting or or realizing that your customers will use transit and telling them how uh to get there or how you're accessible by it but also yeah like the pop culture part like being a torontonian like the ttc is a big part of our culture like love it or hate it like It's something that a lot of us use, even if we are a driver, a cyclist, we'll we'll end up using it.
00:43:19
Speaker
And that makes it kind of realize that like, oh, like this is like an important service and it's worth funding and that like everyone kind of cares about it. And yeah, and like I feel like in Vancouver, like the SkyTrain is so iconic. And like even as a tourist, it's like something you want to take.
00:43:36
Speaker
But yeah, how are like the, like, I feel like both Edmonton and and Calgary are like building out these like ller lot of new LRT extensions and lines. Like, has that been, i know like in in Calgary, like the C train is like, at least like a little bit of a,
00:43:52
Speaker
kind of mean to me it's iconic but don't know if it's iconic seatra has a name um so that's like it right like richard that's similar t pretty cool branding back in the day like some of the retro the yeah well and they still have that they still have those paint jobs on some of those cars we got paint jobs like what is like uh how would it and mentonians think about lrt and is it as a shifting at all I don't know. I think but i think we're getting there. i i still talk to a lot of people that you know don't take transit, that have really negative perceptions of transit because of safety issues type thing.
00:44:25
Speaker
We do have ah a provincial government that's just like straight up in opposition to anything a city can be. like they' They've come out, they've said it. They don't want to fund healthcare. care They don't want to fund programs for people who are unhoused. They don't want to fund transit. They don't want to fund bike lanes. like negative Nelly's over here.
00:44:43
Speaker
And so kind of dealing with that environment has made it very difficult. And yeah, like there are a lot of people who are really in desperate need of services that are living downtown. And i think that really,
00:44:57
Speaker
dominates the conversation whether it's like true like obviously it's true but it dominates the conversation whether that's actually a point of conversation or not right like fear tactics get people reading Edmonton journal articles so that's what gets written so yeah just really trying to share positive stories about transit and transit ridership and how it can like make your life better because it can like transit does make people's lives better Another huge culture thing, which I cannot take credit for and ETR cannot take credit for, like even a little bit, is the bus route Instagram accounts that have been.
00:45:33
Speaker
i love those across Canada. Route 121. Like there are so many of them and they're just like, I don't know who runs. You need to start having partnerships with them.
00:45:49
Speaker
Yeah, like, well, they kind of like started reaching out to ETR being like, you know, share our story. yeah And we're like, okay. But yeah, no even people who don't take transit have really come across those in Edmonton. So they've been a really good, like marketing tool for transit almost. the power. Like what do they post?
00:46:09
Speaker
What is their content? I've never seen. wait dennis have you not seen there's plenty of them for like vancouver yo i'm i'm a blue sky guy i don't i don't go on it it's just like posting it's just like pictures of the bus and some like crazy caption that's like don't we'll send you me and emily will start spamming you with fun with i love x bus memes yes
00:46:37
Speaker
I'm a big fan of like, i love the, I don't know, remember the number, but it's the queen streetcar. I love the 501 streetcar is is ah is a great Instagram account.
00:46:48
Speaker
It's kind of a hot take too. I don't know if I love it. It's pretty tough. That makes it all the funnier. Yeah, that's true. Like, at first in Edmonton, the big ones were, like, the rapid transit routes. Like, love Route 4, love Route 8, which are, like, two of the most popular routes in the city.
00:47:04
Speaker
ah But, you know, it's gotten to be the really niche ones. Like, you know, I love Community Route 111. Like, that kind of stuff. Like, Community Route 111 is, like, a direct to every senior's residence type bus that, like, is a little 30 foot and, yeah, just runs in the middle of the day type thing. So. It'd be funny if like a senior citizen was running that account. That'd be so slay. That would be awesome. Me, us when we're like 80, like real shit posting on main. Yeah, no, the niche accounts are best. It's like the lowest ridership bus that comes like every two hours and you have like the biggest fan of it. right
00:47:43
Speaker
Right. Which is good. It's like we want more service on it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Here's a free idea for anyone. I've always thought it would be fun to do like trading cards for different transit routes. Yes. I like that Pokemon cards where you get like the stats and like you get a little picture and stuff.
00:48:02
Speaker
That'd be crazy. um Did you ever hear about the, like, WikiGacha game that somebody made? It was just, like like, some browser game that it was, like, you you pulled packs of trading cards that were Wikipedia articles. but there And, yeah, it was really addictive, and you just click through your cards, and then you could, like, battle with your Wikipedia articles.
00:48:25
Speaker
Like, okay, yes. Yeah. but they have like a whole calculation mechanism for like the number of words in the article is like how your attack stat is calculated and like yeah like the the number of translations or something is like how your defense like stuff like that so you know we could do like frequency or ridership as like yes that calculation mechanisms for the bus literally i'm literally crying right now oh my god It's so good. i spent like three hours on this one night just like pulling cards and my proudest card was Hawkins Cheezies. I just want to say that. Wow. I'm counting it down.
00:49:04
Speaker
Wow. um Another related free idea, which we kind of talked about a lot here, but never actually pulled the trigger on to actually execute was having, you know how you can buy a star, like you can name a star, but it's totally meaningless. Like you just get a certificate that says now this star is named blank. um We wanted to do that with bus stops. So, and the ah the amount that you donate to movement is proportional to the amount of boardings at that stop. So if you are a high roller and you want to get the busiest stop in the region, like commercial Broadway, Bay one or something like that, you have to pay big bucks per month to movement. And then you can name, you can have a little like on the map on our website, you can have a little shrine to yourself, whatever you want to put there. But if you want to like contribute just a few cents, you can get like this little like dude knee trunk at two 48th road in like Maple Ridge. And it's like next to nothing.
00:49:57
Speaker
That's a cute idea. love that. That's really good too. Anyway, these have been dead questions. Yeah, might be stealing some of these. No, Dennis. That's what this whole podcast is for, honestly, is sharing, like, info across the country. Like, I'm learning from you. You're learning from us. It's like, let's make natural. Could imagine you got, like, multiple cities doing trading cards and, like, you have to, like, go meet up with people in different cities to get the different cities trading cards? Like, that so sick.
00:50:23
Speaker
i mean Although whoever is doing it in New York would just, like, in terms of hit points, like, they would just win everything. Okay, well, they're not invited. man and We might have to have like a, yeah, we could like kind of index it towards like- Yeah, like scaled for population or something. Yeah.
00:50:40
Speaker
It's like the like big Big Mac index, except it's bus great.
00:50:53
Speaker
This is really productive call. Oh, wait, this is a podcast.
00:50:59
Speaker
Yeah, know ah Dennis isn' an is an expert ah at fundraising and he's always looking for more ideas, but yeah. Well, yeah, that's actually have all the rich people in Vancouver, so. Oh, hi.
00:51:14
Speaker
I wish if you know any of them, I want to talk to them because fundraising is hard. And actually, maybe that's a great transition because like I wanted to. ah Well, OK, for the audience, I feel like I might know the answer to this question. But Emily, is there are there any paid staff at ETR? Do you have like people on payroll doing all this incredible work?
00:51:32
Speaker
Nope. We are entirely volunteer run right now. um I have a full time job that is not related to transit even a little bit. Yeah, we have some some students, but yeah, mostly people that are just working and doing this on the side type thing. We do not have a lot of money. You can donate via Interact eTransfer on edmontontranswriters.org if you want to support our work.
00:51:57
Speaker
But yeah, we rely a lot on just kind of donations from the community for specific events. Just people donating their space, donating their time, those sorts of things and and their skills, obviously, like just getting people excited about different projects.
00:52:14
Speaker
That's incredible. It's in my experience, uh, it is really hard to transition from that space to one with paid staff. Um, and, uh, there are so many people in Canada that are trying to doing what Emily is doing, like on a volunteer basis off the side of the desk, like kind of burning the candle at both ends. Like I, you know, I heard that from the people in Windsor, they were really fighting to protect their bus connection with Detroit. And they but they all have full time jobs like they all, you know, when a council meetings and organizing and talking to the media and trying to make it all work. But it's it's really hard. And I was just going to put in a like a little teaser here that like
00:52:54
Speaker
It's something I think about a lot that that apparently there are some learning. um ah you know I come at this as an urban planner, but I'm learning a lot about fundraising and philanthropy. And there are some big philanthropies that are really interested in giving money to a national initiative, but not a local one.
00:53:12
Speaker
And so a few of us have been kind of working on trying to figure out how do we form something national that can take that money in and then distribute it out to groups like yours, Emily, and to incubate new groups in new cities. And and I really want to see like at least 10 groups in Canada that have paid staff. I feel like that's a realistic number.
00:53:36
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think it's doable. i think i think it's ah i think it's going to be challenging, but I feel like so much has happened in this space, even just in the couple of years that I've been involved with it.
00:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, kind of before even movement was a thing, there was like TTC writers and not a lot of other big voices at all. So... Um, just the fact that you've been able to, to build movement in such a small amount of time and other groups have kind of popped up. Like we we've gotten requests from groups popping up in like, you know, Winnipeg and, you know, other prairie cities of just people that are interested in it. Um, Calgary kind of got an advocacy Calgary Transit Riders group going as well and we did some some work with them in 2024 about the ah low income transit pass and Alberta so yeah like i think I think a lot of exciting stuff is happening and um I think there is movement towards a national a more national initiative as well movement towards a national movement maha
00:54:41
Speaker
that TriTag can tag along with and Yeah, I think I think Southern Ontario needs it. Like, i want to see like five groups in Southern Ontario.
00:54:55
Speaker
Like, Yeah, Ottawa, TriTag, like there's got to be a few in the 905 like around Toronto, like TTC riders can't be expected to cover, you know, York Region and Durham. That's why there's more transit Southern Ontario. But no, I think I want to start, but I'm like already stressed so thin, but I would love to see riders group for York Region. And like, i' I'm part of like r slash Safe Streets York Region and r slash YRT.
00:55:22
Speaker
And like, there's like some interest in it, but someone needs to coordinate it. And I like have the experience to do that, but I'm like, I can't, I can't pick up another project right now. yeah I could take on like 30 more projects in my heart, but I'm actually just really sleepy all the time. Oh my gosh. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just a sleepy girl.
00:55:42
Speaker
And it gets so much worse when you actually get paid to do it for a living. Cause all of a sudden it's like, everything is a campaign. Like once it's your job, it's like, oh my gosh, I, I'm one of the only people in Canada that get to do this.
00:55:55
Speaker
And I just want to solve everything. yeah And then you go through an arc where it's like, okay, no, I actually have to like survive this and like live my life. So and then you have to start saying no to things. And that's my mantra now is just saying no to four Before my current career experience, like my initial thing that I wanted to do when I grew up was ah music, actually. i started going to school for classical voice and I really wanted to be a choir conductor.
00:56:26
Speaker
And I am not doing that, believe it or not. My dad is a professional musician and he has been my whole life. But I realized that I could not make money at doing something that I'm that passionate about. Because it would just be all consuming and just like ruin me. Right. So it's kind of the same thing with transit advocacy. Like I need there to be a little bit of a wall there in terms of like my time and energy or else it will just, it will eat me. It will consume me like a disease. i fear I've already been consumed. The disease of little buses crawling under my skin. That sounds like a great time to me. I don't know about you
00:57:03
Speaker
you. Like buses run through my veins.
00:57:07
Speaker
and There's so many jokes he could make there around like bus speed reliability and like cholesterol and got to keep those buses flowing. i don't know. Whatever. Pretend this was. true yeah yeah jane Jane Jacobs like city is an organism. And I guess the bus yeah transportation is like the lifeblood. The lifelood but hemoglobin.
00:57:30
Speaker
emmo Hemo bus. OK, let's stop this. Yeah, maybe we should just call it on this whole episode. Yeah, no, just delete. Delete. Let's try again next week. um Yeah. Join us next week. Join us next week. when maybe maybe Maybe Winnipeg will be better. Wait, so tell us. So did Winnipeg trend that you said they started recently? or I want to like make sure I'm plugging the right group now.
00:57:59
Speaker
Well, they reached out to us. shit Yeah. Yeah. They reached out to us as well. I don't know if they have a name yet or they haven't told me that. They're in the very, very early stages. Well, I think they reached out to you and then you sent them to us to be like, yeah, okay. So we're thinking about the Sam people.
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah. I'm excited. It's really exciting. Yeah. Great future guest. True. Yeah. I also want to go to Winnipeg. I've never been to Winnipeg. I stop. I want to go to Winnipeg so bad. And people will- Go to Winnipeg.
00:58:32
Speaker
I've never been. so the executive director of TTC Writers, Sheila, who we were just talking about, like, just moved back to Winnipeg. I have so many friends from the prairies. Whenever people are like, I want to go to Winnipeg, they're like, why would you want to go to Winnipeg? And I'm like, because it's, I don't know, it's so interesting to me. It's like the gateway to the West. It's like, I just want to go They have a yeah good museum, apparently. rights museum I know, yeah, I heard the installation is... Not everyone can be Ottawa.
00:59:07
Speaker
I actually feel the same way about Winnipeg. It's the only, Minneton was the only province I've never been to. so I've only been just on the edge because my my dad grew up like just across the Saskatchewan border. So i'd been I'd been there a few times. Living on the edge.
00:59:22
Speaker
My other secret, well, not so secret obsession is professional wrestling. um I love professional wrestling. And the professional wrestling like promotion in Winnipeg did a show with the Symphony earlier this year. um and i was genuinely considering flying out to go see that because so that seems awesome i think that wouldn't pull me in also there's professional wrestling on the like new york subway they do like secret professional wrestling shows and i think we should do that in edmonton also by the way someone's got to start it exactly
01:00:03
Speaker
It's gotta be you, Emily. The Venn diagram interests between wrestling and transit advocacy- It'll be just me showing up. I'll put somebody else through a table on a train. It's fine. But honestly, I will fly to Edmonton for that. That's incredible. I think it would be really fun and silly. I'm sure there has to be at least another wrestling transit fan out there. There's probably tens of them.
01:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, like at least six. yeah Call you all wrestling and transit fans. This is a andton call to action. No, across Canada. we're We're flying you all to Edmonton. yeah ah Awesome. okay yeah We're all hopping on the Canadian. It's going be a wrestling train. or We're coming. That would be so awesome. That would be so fun.
01:00:52
Speaker
This has been a really fun episode. Emily, thank you so much for joining this. i've just i'm I'm thrilled, really. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm thrilled to be invited. The thrill level is just off the charts right now. All right. This has been Dwell Time.
01:01:11
Speaker
Thanks, everyone, for listening.
01:01:17
Speaker
You've been listening to Dwell Time. This show is hosted by Rodney Chan and Dennis Hagar. Producer and editor is Caria Tether-Keir. Thank you for listening. Details about our social media and content mentioned are in the show notes.
01:01:32
Speaker
We would like to recognize that this show is written, recorded, and edited by the ancestral lands of First Nations peoples across Canada.