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S4:E12 Vladimir (2026 Series)
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This week, we’re diving into Vladimir by Julia May Jonas and its 2026 Netflix adaptation. In this episode, we talk about the book’s dark humor, unsettling tone, unreliable narration, and the obsession at the center of the story, along with how those elements translated to the screen. We break down our thoughts on the narrator, the character dynamics, the social commentary, and the adaptation choices that worked for us—and the ones that didn’t. From uncomfortable tension to messy characters and very different reactions to the book and series, Vladimir gave us a lot to discuss.
Hosted by Keri with co-hosts Crystal and Lindsey.
Books & Adaptations Mentioned:
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Question of the Episode:
- What is a character that is unliked by many but you actually love?
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Thanks for listening to Based on a Book—see you in the next chapter!
Chapters:
00:00) Introductions
(01:31) Book Ratings
(05:46) Adaptation Breakdown (SPOILERS)
(58:17) Final Verdicts
(1:09:12) Question of the Episode
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Theme Setup
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to Based on a Book, the podcast that always questions our narrators. I'm Carrie, and I feel like I'm in Manderly again. I'm Crystal, and I feel like I'm trapped in another Mary Shelley novel.
00:00:22
Speaker
And I'm Lindsay. And I feel like I'm in Wuthering Heights again. April is for picking just about anything we want. So, of course, I had to bring a little chaotic energy to
Introduction to 'Vladimir' by Julia Mae Jonas
00:00:36
Speaker
the mix. For today's episode, we're diving into story into a story that's equal parts obsession, desire, and unraveling control, which is Vladimir by Julia Mae Jonas. I keep wanting to say Jones, but it's Jonas.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yes, I keep wanting to say that. And it's 2026 limited Netflix series adaptation starring Rachel Weisz and Leo Woodall.
00:01:04
Speaker
The book was published in 2022 and follows an English professor whose life is on shaky ground where her husband is under investigation. Her career feels slightly stalled, but then enters Vladimir. a young magnetic colleague who quickly becomes the center of her fixation. What begins as curiosity quickly spirals into something far more dangerous, forcing us to question power, perspective, and reliable narrators.
00:01:38
Speaker
Before we get into talking about our feelings on the show, let's talk about our book ratings.
Crystal's Review and Rating
00:01:46
Speaker
Let's start with Crystal on this one. Oh, man. Yeah.
00:01:51
Speaker
Oh, man. I've been so excited to talk about this book. So this book is like hardcore character driven. Yes. Right. Absolutely. Hardcore character driven. And as a general rule, I need a little bit more plot for me to care at all.
00:02:08
Speaker
um and Especially character driven with an unreliable narrator. I feel like we don't ever know the character. Because we can't trust the character. And in this one, there's really only one character. And guess what? It's not Vladimir. Because this is all about the the the narrator. Who doesn't have a name. Who doesn't have a name.
00:02:29
Speaker
And I hate her. i just hate everybody. But I give this book 1.5 random cocktails. And my notes...
00:02:42
Speaker
It's just a short and sweet says narcissist manipulates everyone around her and is surprised to find out not everyone worships her. And but that's it.
00:02:55
Speaker
That's it. That's how I feel about this book. That's my review. That's my non-spoiler review. yeah Okay.
Lindsay's Review and Comparison to 'Wuthering Heights'
00:03:03
Speaker
All right, Lindsay.
00:03:06
Speaker
Okay. So I liked the story.
00:03:11
Speaker
I thought it was interesting.
00:03:16
Speaker
I didn't like any of the characters. That's why felt like I was back in Wuthering Heights. I hated everyone, basically. Also, i feel like maybe... Back to Persuasion, where I feel like maybe if I was a little bit older, I would read it differently. um So maybe this is something I can revisit later when I'm a little bit older.
00:03:37
Speaker
And maybe some of the plot points will hit differently. But yeah, I gave this one three unfinished novels. Okay.
00:03:49
Speaker
All right. All right. i actually, i you know, I like a character-driven story a lot. As I talk about all the time. i knew you and I were going to be slightly different on this. Because you love a character driven story. Yeah. Like this story is completely inside of her head.
00:04:08
Speaker
Like almost the entire time. isn't he To the point that there are moments in like chapters where there is like little to no dialogue.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yep. Which I think drags the story a lot. There's a lot of boring parts in this book. Also, the ending, which we will get into in our spoiler part of this episode, was so bonkers and out of left field that it was completely insane. Somebody called it a twist in a review. i was like, that wasn't a twist. That was just like random. Yeah.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah. But I gave it three and a half recommendation letters because... I felt like it kept bringing good conversations for me, like up for me, that I wanted to talk about it. I wanted to talk about the topics. I liked the social commentary on it that was brought to my attention that I wanted to discuss, that I felt like it was things that people don't really want to talk about.
00:05:25
Speaker
If that makes sense. Yeah. And that's why i really enjoyed reading it. I think it was exploring generational differences like about desire, whether it was like doing it in a good or bad way.
00:05:42
Speaker
i can't really say, but I like that it brought the conversation to the table and made me think about it. So that's why I kind of enjoyed it. Yeah.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, I get that. Yeah.
Spoiler Alert: Book and Adaptation Discussion
00:05:55
Speaker
But if there's nothing else to say for our non-spoiler reviews, let's get into our spoilers because it's time to talk about that adaptation.
00:06:08
Speaker
So here is your spoiler warning. From this point on, we will be diving into all major plot details of the book, the show, what worked and what didn't. You know the drill at this point. So if you have not read the book or watch the show, please do that before you dive into it with us because it's a trip.
00:06:27
Speaker
All right. Because we want you to do that and then come back because we want to hear your thoughts so we can all discuss. But I'm going to give a content warning before we move forward because we will be having a lot of conversations around sexual content.
00:06:42
Speaker
um So please be aware of that before listening to this episode because, you know, that's kind of a very major plot point in this story. Now, this adaptation...
00:06:55
Speaker
It is an eight-episode series on Netflix um with actually several episodes written by the author, which I think is pretty cool. I believe she's like an executive producer on the show, which I always like to see. Honestly, the minute I saw that, i got excited because i feel like whenever an author...
00:07:15
Speaker
is involved in their adaptation, I feel like we get a little bit more depth to the story. Because I was like, well, maybe I missed something reading this book. I didn't like this book so much that I legitimately thought I missed something.
00:07:30
Speaker
Right? And I felt like, do I just not get it? Is there something here that I don't understand? And so when I saw that the author was involved in the adaptation, I thought, okay, well, this is this is her chance to tell me the story or show me the story I might have
Adaptation's Style and Fourth Wall Break
00:07:45
Speaker
missed.
00:07:45
Speaker
Right. And I feel like that that happened. So there's a lot more context, I think, in the show than there is in the book. And I was really excited to see that. Yeah. So the show has a different style to the book. And, you know, like someone like like Crystal, like you what you said is that, you know, if you didn't enjoy the book, this style change might kind of reel you in. Mm It leans heavily on the dark humor, ah like the psychological tension.
00:08:18
Speaker
you know, with how we know where the ending is going, I think the psychological tension is needed. Yeah. In the show, because there is none in the book. So the ending feels kind of insane and wild and out of nowhere.
00:08:37
Speaker
But it's following a lot of the storyline, like a lot of the plot. Yes. um But with the style, it feels so different. So I'm curious what you both think, specifically what a big style change in this adaptation, which seems to be the most talked about in as people are watching it is the breaking of the fourth wall. I'm curious, Lindsay, what did you think about that?
Psychological Tension and Character Dynamics
00:09:05
Speaker
In the adaptation? Because specifically, I keep thinking of that persuasion that you watch exactly what I was going to say. I was having flashbacks to persuasion and Dakota Johnson talking to me. Yeah. Yeah. So did you like it in this at all?
00:09:21
Speaker
It was fine. I really didn't mind it. And, you know, it's so smooth. And when she does go to break the fourth wall, you it's almost cringy because you're like, oh, is someone going to notice that you're talking to me? like I'm not here. I'm the audience and you're talking to me. But it's so smooth and and it doesn't like interfere with the actual story at all. So I found that interesting.
00:09:47
Speaker
ah What about you, Crystal? I mean, kind of the same. I thought, like, sometimes breaking the fourth wall can feel icky and out of place, but I felt this was super in place. I thought it was really well done. And in a way that rather than pulling me out of the story, it pulled me further into the story. Like, I was her co-conspirator. Mm-hmm.
00:10:11
Speaker
Like i I potentially was like her confidant, the person that she was sharing her innermost thoughts with. And that kind of made me, i don't know, I really liked it. I think it was well really well done, especially for this character who is so desperate to get people to like her that she was trying to get me to like her as well. I was going to say i also like it – playing into the fact that she's an unreliable narrator. And it really helped to differentiate like when she's telling the truth and when she's lying. Like there's the scene when she's at the party toward the beginning. Like, I guess it's like the first episode where she makes the salad or whatever. yes Everyone loved it. And the camera cuts to it and no one has touched it. I was like, Oh, right. So now we know she's lying to us too. That's when it really clicked with me that she's super unreliable.
00:11:06
Speaker
yeah a lot of people were comparing it ah to Fleabag I've never watched that show but that's another show that breaks the fourth wall lot and it's like a dark comedy vibe to it and I think it so my personal opinion on it I really i did not like it personally I don't like the fourth wall break at all But i understood why they were trying to do that, where it aligned with the book in a sense because we live so much in her head. Yeah.
00:11:46
Speaker
You know, that is how that story is. where To the point where you're like, how are they going to do this when this entire story is, you know, your're her internal like monologue, basically. Mm-hmm. So I think that is like an interesting choice.
00:12:05
Speaker
Can we take a moment to recognize how well Rachel Weisz does this?
Main Character's Obsession and Power Dynamics
00:12:10
Speaker
Because sometimes within the same scene, she'll go from talking to the other characters in the scene And in the same take, turn and say something to us with a completely different face, a completely different tonal inflection, her inner monologue to us, and then turn right back to the characters and be back in character for them.
00:12:32
Speaker
And it's so smooth and like such a perfect transition. You you know that those other characters didn't see that, didn't know that, that that was all pretend, that was in her head or, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's so well done by Rachel Weisz. Her face does right. The tone of her voice changes.
00:12:53
Speaker
i just, I was just shocked at how well it was done. i mean, cause you know, it's gotta be like, emotional or character i don't know how actors deal with that kind of like tonal whiplash but she did it yeah it's almost like she's playing two different characters she's playing who like her out you know who she is to other people and who she's pretending to be to other people and then like when she's speaking to us is who You know, not all the time is who she really is because she's also lying to us. You know what I mean? Which in a lot of ways means she's lying to herself. Yes, right exactly. it was
00:13:30
Speaker
She's a different character with almost every person in her life. She plays a different role. it's And it's wild to see that portrayed so well.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah. So both the book and the show begin with the unnamed narrator, like we said, played by um Rachel Weisz, who is talking to us.
00:13:52
Speaker
And in the very beginning of both the book and the show, she is at a cabin with a guy named... Vladimir, played by Leo Woodall.
00:14:04
Speaker
And she is describing him as being strapped to chair to a chair, um describing him in like an erotic way. And then it switches to several weeks before that happening. In the show, it seems more like Thriller vibes where it's like ah he's like yelling for help, which makes it seem like more scary. But then we're following like this woman's her characters like very.
00:14:38
Speaker
Intriguing life. So she's married in her 50s and has one daughter whose name is Sid and Sid is a lawyer also in a relationship.
00:14:50
Speaker
At this exact moment that we meet her in the story, our main character, ah this woman is a college professor and her husband is a college professor. And they are like royalty at this college, basically. Like they've been here forever. Everyone has loved them. And they're like kind of on a pedestal. But her husband, John, his job is in jeopardy because a petition was given to the school with several hundred signatures in affidavits by seven women, former students at the college, who had engaged with him sexually.
00:15:28
Speaker
On top of that, she feels she is like losing her ambition as a writer. She is distracted by this whole thing happening with her husband. But in not all the ways that you would assume.
00:15:45
Speaker
She has an unconventional relationship with her husband. don't They don't really put labels on it, but it's pretty much like an open marriage.
00:15:56
Speaker
So to her, these affairs are not very surprising. And she's kind of like giving us like the details right off the bat. And she's having almost like this conflicted reaction to these affairs.
00:16:13
Speaker
Like throughout the story, we're having a very up and down response. Sometimes like this is what makes me like feel very like. Sometimes I hate her. Sometimes I like kind of feel for her Sometimes I feel like she's just like this feels like a very human reaction where she's like she hates her husband for doing this.
00:16:35
Speaker
And then sometimes she's like upset with these women Who, you know, reacted this way towards her husband. You know, I'm curious, Lindsay, what what were your thoughts on it? Like, how she reacts to it?
00:16:50
Speaker
I have to have to admit something first. Okay. Tell us. I didn't realize that she didn't have a name until I watched the adaptation. Me neither. me neither. i was like reading the description of one of the episodes and it just said M. And I was like, M, does she not have a name? Yeah. I had to.
00:17:11
Speaker
look it up so i was like bravo author you didn't make me hate the fact that she's not named and that's hard to do yeah because i usually hate it when they don't have a name but i completely agree i was super conflicted with the way she was reacting because she's so wishy-washy and back and forth and you don't really know how she's feeling and that made me conflicted yeah so yeah that's kind of how i felt as well like I have, like, this quote from, you know, this is from page 10, like, very early on when she's kind of explaining to us about the situation with her husband.
00:17:49
Speaker
And she, like, this is kind of touched on later in the show where she will not say... I forget how she words it specifically, but she won't say something like specific words about her husband doing this to these women because that means it takes away the power of their consent.
00:18:16
Speaker
And that really like stuck with me because it's just like there's ah an obvious power dynamic, which is very bad in this situation. Mm-hmm. That shouldn't happen between like a student and a teacher. And obviously, like these are we're not talking about students below the age of 18. These are students in college and something that she says It's like, whatever the current state of my marriage may be, i still can't think about it all without my blood boiling. My anger is not so much directed toward the accusations as it is toward the lack of self-regard these women have, the lack of their own self-confidence.
00:19:00
Speaker
I wish they could see themselves not as little leaves swirled around by the wind of a world that does not belong to them, but as powerful sexual women interested in engaging in a little bit of danger, a little bit of taboo, a little bit of fun. And like she would say things like this and it would like piss me off.
00:19:18
Speaker
And then it would then I would like settle in of what she was trying to say Regarding like she wanted women to have more power in what they were doing.
00:19:31
Speaker
but then she would hate her husband for putting them in that position. So it was like, I kept like having these weird, like moral conflictions with myself and with her. Like I was like doing it with her.
00:19:48
Speaker
I think that's what kind of like made me like this book a little more than I expected. Does that make sense? It made you feel something. That's definitely something. Yeah. Yeah. But as she is dealing with all this, like, in her workplace as a professor, dealing with other colleagues, like, you know, eyeballing her as she's, you know, as her husband is also about to, like, go basically, like, on a trial over this.
00:20:18
Speaker
A new professor is introduced, Vladimir. He's also a writer. He has a wife, Cynthia, and they have a child. Vladimir is young, very attractive, and becomes like her obsession.
00:20:31
Speaker
And honestly, this is kind of where... This is where the show loses me. Episode one. I'm kidding. To be totally honest, I did not love the show.
00:20:46
Speaker
I did not enjoy the show that
Character Analysis: Sid's Portrayal Differences
00:20:50
Speaker
much. I felt like a lot of what made me connect with the character in the book, they took away from her in the show.
00:21:05
Speaker
And I was kind of disappointed by that. And I'll kind of like touch on that a little bit more. But we're... You know, the daydreaming with Vladimir in the show, where it was really bothering me where she gets so distracted by this daydreaming to the point where her life, like, falls apart.
00:21:39
Speaker
Like, and that was not her character in the book. No. her She was very much put together regardless of how she was around Vladimir. Like, Vladimir had no control over her life.
00:21:55
Speaker
I think in the show, they softened her and they softened Vladimir. Yeah. Yeah. While also amping up the side characters. Yes. Like they amped up Sid. They amped up John. They amped up the, the David character, the other professor and Flo, the one who was the other like semi obnoxious character. They really amped up those side characters and kind of softened the two main characters. Um,
00:22:33
Speaker
To the point where like Vlad in the book never reads her book. But in the show he does. You know, like just like they made him a somewhat better person than what he is in the book.
00:22:49
Speaker
Just just in a little bit. Not a ton, but just enough to change the character. Yeah. Same with the narrator. They made her a little bit more...
00:23:03
Speaker
chaotic than what she was in the book. I think in the book she was very, very strategic. Very strategic. 100%. we don't see that quite as much like in the book. Like even the thing that happens towards the end, it was planned in the book.
00:23:20
Speaker
It was a spur of the moment in the show because she's a little more chaotic in the show. And I don't know that I liked that so much. Yeah. And so at like basically The rest of the story is our narrator's obsession with Vladimir, where it's kind of, in my opinion, how I interpret it, it's almost like the daydreaming and obsession with Vladimir is distracting her and inspiring and like being her muse to write again. And it's distracting her from what is happening with everything going on with her husband. Yeah.
00:24:03
Speaker
And that's like kind of what the story is about. But I think another like a very big difference between the book and the show is that. Despite the title.
00:24:15
Speaker
Being Vladimir of the book. This book is not about Vladimir. No, actually Vladimir is very much not in this book. No, it's very little like he's very much barely in here.
00:24:31
Speaker
I think this is very like more a story about her and honestly also about her and her husband and their relationship yeah and how they cope about with anything.
00:24:46
Speaker
It's mostly about that. And vladim Vlad is just kind of like the thing that helps her deal and helps her process or like escapism basically. Mm-hmm.
00:25:01
Speaker
And that's it.
Enhanced Side Characters in Adaptation
00:25:03
Speaker
But like Crystal said, the her chaotic energy is so much more in the show to the point of making it like kind of spooky.
00:25:17
Speaker
yeah Like very like stalker like like whenever she's obsessing over Cynthia, it was freaking me out. Yeah. Cynthia, like I said before, is Vlad's wife.
00:25:29
Speaker
And, you know, Cynthia and Vlad's relationship is kind of strange or like it's it's it's very a young couple with yeah a new kid.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's that's very it's very typical in that learning to navigate being parents, but people trying to still have careers and. you know, and creative pursuits and trying to navigate that as a couple. but It's fairly, like, honestly, as I was reading it, I think the author meant for it to sound like it might be a little strained. And all I was reading was, like, yes, strained, but that's typical at this point. Yeah.
00:26:07
Speaker
You know? I think also... Him talking about like announcing her mental health issues to everyone. yeah That was like a big deal on their relationship. And like anytime he would talk about Cynthia, it was never a good thing.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah. He never said how smart she was or how beautiful she was or how much he loved her. It was always, i have to do this for Cynthia or Cynthia needs me to do that. Or she yeah always expects me to, you know.
00:26:41
Speaker
It's like something bad was happening or like some type of like complaining about Cynthia. That's like a whiny male. Yeah. That's like toward the end.
00:26:51
Speaker
No spoilers or anything. But when Vlad is talking to the narrator and he makes the comment that, oh, it can finally be about me now.
00:27:04
Speaker
And it's been about him the whole time. Yeah. And then you get that perspective from John where John was like, Cynthia made the comment that it's finally not about Vlad.
00:27:19
Speaker
And you're like, oh, so is he also an unreliable narrator? He's just ah a horrible human being. we We've read a lot of horrible men this season. And I'm...
00:27:31
Speaker
I'm getting really tired of it, honestly. Can we find like a list can we find a book with a really good man in it that's not a child? Not a child. Well, because we read Percy Jackson. that was that He's a good young man, but he's a young he's a boy. He's a child.
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah. We are going to read Hunger Games, so that means PETA's coming. I'll look forward to that. Yes, PETA! Oh, wait, we're reading Mockingjay. Yes. Oh, no. Crap. You guys.
00:28:00
Speaker
It's okay. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. Poor Pita.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah, I, whenever she, the narrator, kept like insisting on this friendship with Cynthia and Cynthia, like, honestly, I could kind of relate to this when some like someone will not take no for an answer when you're just like, I don't want to hang out. Like, I just like, I need space.
00:28:25
Speaker
Like, I don't want to like, I kind of like don't need to be like around you right now. And she was just like bullying her into being her friend. Yeah. It was intense. I was stop.
00:28:36
Speaker
This is making me uncomfortable. Secondhand embarrassment. Hardcore. like yes go away. Yeah. And
Character Motivations and Personal Conflicts
00:28:43
Speaker
so they also like, they change like the, narrative like I said, change the narrator's character where she's like spiraling so badly, like not being on top of her recommendation letters, not paying attention like to her daughter.
00:28:58
Speaker
That was like a very big difference for me where like in the book, She like her daughter, her and her daughter's relationship was very important to her and like mending that because it was strained due to everything that was happening with her husband and because the daughter didn't know about it.
00:29:17
Speaker
And, you know, obviously, if when something like that comes up, you know, with your dad, that's obviously going to be like, what the hell? Sid in the show was also very freaking whiny. What was up with that? Yeah.
00:29:32
Speaker
Sid in the book, and again, unreliable narrator, so we don't really know how Sid is at all, honestly. But Sid in the book was like... Young and a little bit like unsure of exactly what she wanted in her life, but like super intelligent and knew right from wrong and had a very like firm sense of justice. She's a lawyer, you know, and Sid in the show was like, mom, dad, why are you acting like this? Please stop. Don't you care? And it was very like, whoa, that like Sid honestly reminded me like a whiny teenager. hmm.
00:30:12
Speaker
And she here's she's supposed to be, like, in her early 30s because they talk about, like, her partner, her um her wife is going to be, if they get if they have a baby, it would be a geriatric pregnancy. So that means she has to be at least 35. I know this because I had one of those.
00:30:29
Speaker
So, like, that means that Sid is in her early thirty s I don't feel like Sid in the show acted like a teenager, honestly. Yeah. I think also we got basically the reveal that we're told about in the book that happened like previously.
00:30:50
Speaker
We actually see that reveal in the show. But yeah, I think Sid's character honestly takes kind of a big shift. And honestly...
00:31:04
Speaker
They let her character kind of fall off completely in the show. Yeah. And in the book, it was super important. yeah Specifically, the conversation about her potentially having a child with her with her wife.
00:31:19
Speaker
And here it is, narrator is like, you don't know what you want yet. Why would you do that? Blah, blah, blah. Okay, so you're questioning Sid's ability to judge what she wants for her life. But you think these other women who were potentially teenagers and in their early 20s knew what they wanted and should have known.
00:31:39
Speaker
Those two comparisons were kind of in your face in the book. And we don't really get that in the show at all. And that kind of bothered me. Yeah, that honestly, that was like an essential correlation in the story that I was hoping...
00:31:55
Speaker
could have been expanded in the show also the fact that in the book you know sid has a lot of anger towards her dad about what he's doing and then sid reveals that she's been having an affair with a co-worker in the book and you know talks to her dad about that And I think that's also a very interesting like correlation that happens in the story as well that I wish could have been expanded. But it's like only just briefly mentioned in the show. Yeah. And never touched on again. i'm like, well, what was the point of that? Mm hmm.
00:32:38
Speaker
you know And then her girlfriend, were they married? I think they were married. I think. No. no they weren Okay. They were not married yet. Sid's partner wanted to get married and wanted to have a baby. That's what it was.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yes. yes And then, you know, she her girlfriend comes back and is like, she shows up in the show way earlier.
00:33:02
Speaker
and only shows up for that like hot minute. Yes. Yeah. But yeah, her character, i feel like they, you know, kind of fell off on you know, helping her character like develop a little bit more. In fact, they I feel like they focused more on Cynthia and David and Flo than they did on Sid. Yeah, yeah.
00:33:27
Speaker
And Sid, I think, was more essential to the story. Yeah. There was the whole storyline where, you know, she, her partner finds out about the co-worker.
00:33:39
Speaker
So she leaves to go to her parents' house and she meets the guy in the subway and they have relations. And then as she's, you know, mending her relationship with her partner and she's dropping little hints about how she's sick in the morning. and You're like, oh.
00:33:58
Speaker
uh-oh and then you get that that reveal toward the end where she's pregnant and they're gonna have the baby and there's their baby yeah i missed that in the show yeah i did too that was wild in the show we also have an added character named lila
00:34:22
Speaker
Which is ah person who is within that affidavit against the main character's husband.
00:34:34
Speaker
and there's like an added element within the show where... She was a previous student of the main character.
00:34:46
Speaker
So whenever this was announced, this petition was announced, she was also up for like a scholarship.
00:34:57
Speaker
and That was also a part of like our main character.
Power Dynamics and Unreliable Narration
00:35:01
Speaker
And she claims that the main character did not give the scholarship to her as like retaliation.
00:35:09
Speaker
So like there is that element in there as well um in the story that was not in the book, which I think is interesting, added element to it.
00:35:21
Speaker
Like we said before, there's a lot of like extra side characters who are so insufferable. They are so insufferable. I cannot stand that flow, girl.
00:35:34
Speaker
and the thing is, is like, I know, i know that woman in life. I swear to God. I think everybody has a flow in their life somewhere, right? Yeah. But i kind of I kind of liked her in the book. I mean, like, I didn't like her. She's not meant to be likable. But I liked that she challenged the narrator openly all the time. And not in a, like, I want to fight you sort of way. But in a, like, this is, that was, that is genuine genuinely who Flo is, right? I didn't feel like she was purposely trying to create fights. She was trying to create conversations and make people think.
00:36:11
Speaker
Like, a college professor should. In the show, she was insufferable. Yeah. She literally, she was a frenemy. At one point, they used the word frenemy. I'm yeah mad about that because, again, you know how i feel about write authors trying to sound young. Don't do that. But somehow it kind of fit for this narrator to be trying to fit in with the younger kids. So it felt right. I don't know. I still, I'm conflicted about their use of the word frenemy.
00:36:41
Speaker
Yeah, I for some reason, this moment that's so stuck in my head. i don't know why. But I think it's because i was like, this is so unrealistic. There was um I think it was a professor who also worked at a grocery store.
00:36:56
Speaker
Right. So she's working as like a cashier, right? And John is like checking out and he sees that she's like also has a book at the register. Like she's reading while she's working. Never would happen. no Never would Having a book at a register? yeah Exactly. You would never be allowed to read a book at the register. No.
00:37:20
Speaker
And you never would have time to do that. No. And I just want to say that doesn't happen. It doesn't exist. Unrealistic. Like the second I saw that, no, no, you would never be allowed to do that ever. no You got time to lean. You got time to clean. Yuppers.
00:37:38
Speaker
Immediately I clocked out. I was like, absolutely not ah But I want to talk about also these fantasies that our main character is having with Vlad.
00:37:52
Speaker
Very hot, very sexy. Very hot, very sexy. So what this whole thing is, is that, you know, her husband is going through.
00:38:04
Speaker
This trial, basically. And then she's having these fantasies with a much younger colleague. Can we also point out that dude's name is Vladimir Vladinsky?
00:38:17
Speaker
That's like John Johnson. Yeah. ah yeah Yeah. I watched this with a friend who had not read the book. And he was like... Wait, what's his name? And I was like, Vladimir Vladinsky. He was like, dude are you for real?
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm for real. Yeah, for real. Yeah, i so these scenes are obviously not actually happening. They're just like her fantasies. Every time she sees him...
00:38:48
Speaker
Like in the show, like every single time she sees him. Yeah. Immediately she is fantasizing. He's throwing her on the table against the wall. he's like doing something crazy to her. And then she immediately in a split second is back to normal. She's like trying to have a conversation or something.
00:39:07
Speaker
In the book, it's like not really like that. It's somewhat implied though. I think there's few times that like yeah she she talks about... how she thought of him or she had to touch herself or whatever. So we, we have to like, she, but it's not nearly as explicit. And I feel like it's not as often.
00:39:28
Speaker
Yeah. 100% not as often. Like it's not every time she sees him and it's more like it's the muse part of it. Like she's picturing these things because it's like, it's like, it's inspiring her to write and to do, you know,
00:39:49
Speaker
to It's inspiring her to be like artistic, basically, like to get creative. And that's why she's having these fantasies. Like Crystal said, she like writes these incredible scenes for her latest book because she hasn't written in a really long time. She hasn't had that spark. And she like just seeing this person gives her a spark. So she sees this person. She writes and writes writes. And then she talks about touching herself.
00:40:18
Speaker
Because she's just that inspired. Because she's just like picturing him in different ways and stuff like that. That's the point of the story. The show is like twisting it where she's just like having horny tunnel vision.
00:40:33
Speaker
And just because she just sees a younger hot dude. And that's it. And yeah, she is like going off and writing and like writing a story. But it's like it's not correlating like it should. Does that make sense? Like.
00:40:48
Speaker
To me, it's just like not correlating how it is in the book. I do. don't know. I do have a legitimate question. Okay. And I don't want to go too far ahead in the story, but this is toward the end ah when they're at the cabin.
00:41:06
Speaker
And Vlad whispers in her ear that he wants them to come back to the cabin Is it like once a month or something? Uh-huh.
Themes of Female Insecurity and Aging
00:41:15
Speaker
Did that actually happen or did she imagine that?
00:41:21
Speaker
I want to think she imagined it. Because I want to think that Vlad wasn't nearly as interested in her as she wanted him to be. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:41:36
Speaker
personally when when you have such an unreliable narrator who is not only lying to us but is also having these fantasies it gets confusing you don't really know what's real what's really happening like is she imagining this scene i don't know yeah i i i don't know I mean, and again, I'm not a man. I don't know. But I don't know many men who would sit there right after your husband got up from the table and went to bed in the same building that we are sitting in who would say something like that to another woman. I've never been in an open relationship either. So I don't know. I'm not polyamorous. Maybe that's a thing. But I feel like...
00:42:27
Speaker
From a man who was monogamous up until this point, he probably wouldn't have said that. e Especially someone who was going to go back to his wife.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yeah, he was pretty like pissed at that point. Yeah, I this kind of brings I have like two questions that I'm curious about before we get into the breakdown at the ending.
00:42:50
Speaker
Like, what... Was there, like, a specific moment that you... if ever... If you were ever rooting for the character the main character. Like, what specific moment did you stop rooting for the main character?
00:43:04
Speaker
If ever. Crystal, what about you? When she decided she was going to have an open conversation with her students. And one of them had asked, like, don't you...
00:43:17
Speaker
it Don't you expect them to like, don't you understand there was a power dynamic there? And that she says by saying that you take away your agency as you like, don't you think that you are capable of making adult decisions?
00:43:33
Speaker
That's when I stopped rooting for her. Because yes, at 18, 19, 20, because that's how old some of these students are, 21, 22 years old, I am capable of making adult decisions. That doesn't change that there's a power dynamic. yeah That doesn't change that I'm making decisions based on that power dynamic. And as the person in the power position within that dynamic, it is your responsibility to recognize that and step away, not the the other person, not the person without power.
00:44:05
Speaker
And for her to not recognize that and not even be willing to consider it, that's when I went, no, I'm done. Yeah, that's kind of like where I was at before. when she had brought that up where I kept like going like up and down, like how I felt about it when she was saying that.
00:44:25
Speaker
Yeah. The fact that it's like not a consideration okay in the conversation is where it's like, I can't ever a hundred percent agree with this person. And you, as an adult, you can still make adult decisions And be taken advantage of.
00:44:46
Speaker
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, absolutely. So what about you, Lindsay? I agree. i you know, I tried to go into the story very neutral. I didn't know anything about it, you know, and I was listening to the audio book and at first the narrator, like within like the first five minutes, she talks about where her anger originates or something. I don't remember. Oh yeah. She said it originates from her vagina. Yeah. haina That's why I started questioning things right off the bat. yeah
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah. and So my other question is, do you think that she has any self-awareness or do you think she's like delusional?
00:45:31
Speaker
What about you, Lindsay? I'd say she probably had some self-awareness at some point, but mostly through the story, I feel like she's super delusional.
00:45:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And just the way that she thinks other people perceive her, especially the students and how popular her class is. and Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. i I'm sure she does have some self-awareness, but for the most part, she's she's pretty delusional. Yeah.
00:46:00
Speaker
What about you, Crystal? I think she thinks she has self-awareness. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah. Also, like, something we didn't really touch on that's not really talked about in the show at all, but in the book, she talks a lot about her extreme insecurities. how Like, very extreme insecurities. Her weight and her issues with food were intense. Mm-hmm. Yeah, like to the point because we're living so much in her head to the point where I was like, I just like I can't even listen to this anymore. Like this is horrible. Like this is.
00:46:42
Speaker
i this is like so miserable to read about.
Different Endings: Book vs. Show
00:46:47
Speaker
And I mean, like Lindsay said at the beginning when she was, you know, you talked about maybe when you're older, like I'm not as old as this main character because I think she said she was 58 56, 58, something like that. 58. I'm 44.
00:47:01
Speaker
I'm not there. And so I don't want to necessarily speak like I am. But from where I am now... There is ah they Like, I can see that the shift in the way I'm perceived by others. I can see a shift in how I feel about myself and what my body is capable of and, you know, like how how I feel, you attractive to Do I... feel attractive to to men do i you know like these
00:47:35
Speaker
It's definitely something that shifts as you age in ways that i knew were going to happen and in ways that I didn't expect. And so I can see her struggle in this book yeah with that shift and that change. And I can imagine from where I stand now that it's probably only going to get more difficult for me to to roll and accept these changes in myself and in my life and in my place in society and in my place in my family.
00:48:04
Speaker
you know And that you see her struggle with how other people perceive her, where she is within her career, where she stands within her family and her you know her parent mother-daughter relationship with her child. like I've experienced some of that.
00:48:19
Speaker
and And so I see kind of where she's coming from in those struggles. Yeah. But that doesn't excuse her behavior. And I don't think... I mean, we can all agree that this is not a healthy representation of any woman ever.
00:48:37
Speaker
But at the same time, i think this is a particularly oh challenging place in life. And so I understand why she...
00:48:51
Speaker
like the Like her body in particular, like struggling with her weight and wanting to like be perceived, but only in the way that she wants to be perceived, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm.
00:49:06
Speaker
So that I see it and I kind of get it, but I'm also kind of like, girl, talk a therapist. And there was also something in this story to note is that she, it was very important to her to not, you know, show that or pass it on to her daughter. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:28
Speaker
And, you know, she never wanted to show how she reacted about food or how she reacted about her appearance to her daughter because she didn't want her daughter to be like her about those things. Mm-hmm.
00:49:43
Speaker
So I thought that was a good thing. That's a fair point. Yeah. Yeah. She's so obsessed with other people thinking that she's younger than she actually is. Yes.
00:49:56
Speaker
And, you know, maybe I'll be like that when I'm older. But at this point in my life, I don't care. it Right? Yeah. Yeah. But now I want to get into these endings because we have different endings for the book and the show.
00:50:12
Speaker
In the book, on the day of John's trial, which we haven't really talked a ton about John, because I don't really want to talk about John. That's fair. But I will say in the show, he is a very good actor.
00:50:25
Speaker
I do. yeah I think he's a great actor. But he his character, like their relationship is like so bizarre and complex.
00:50:41
Speaker
But... Like, is it bad to say, like, i'm kind of like... I don't know how to say this. Like, I'm not rooting for them.
00:50:54
Speaker
But, like, by the end of the story, i was kind of like... I felt, like, okay. Like, I felt settled about it and good about it as as it ended in the book.
00:51:10
Speaker
With their like, i was like, you guys are weird and you guys deserve each other. And like, just go be together and just do what you're going to do. But like, just do that together and stop bothering other people kind of thing. They're both terrible people. They can go be terrible people together. Exactly. That's exactly how I felt. Me too. Anytime I see John Slatterly, though, I cannot...
00:51:35
Speaker
Or slatter Slattery? Slattery. I cannot see him as anything other than his character in Mad Men. I just can't. I don't know if you guys watched Mad Men. It was really big. haven't. It was really big like 15 years ago. so I get that.
00:51:49
Speaker
But you probably ought to at least watch the first season. Totally worth it. And yeah. Yeah. yeah also why is he so hot he's 63 years old he's still fine still fine he uh was also in um desperate housewives he was married to i think eva longoria's character i've still never seen that show i haven't seen that either he makes a comment about eva longoria on one of the episodes i was like oh your wife your wife Oh my
Personal Preferences and Episode Wrap-Up
00:52:20
Speaker
gosh. Okay, so in the book, like I said, on the day of John's trial, Vladimir and our main character go out together because she doesn't go to her husband's trial. She plans a day to spend together, which eventually turns into...
00:52:36
Speaker
Something, like we said before, completely chaotic and out of left field. this There was no build up to this. so she And this is the first time that like her and Vlad like spend time together privately. And she gets him drunk and drugs him.
00:52:59
Speaker
Hello. Again, well super planned and strategic yeah in the book. In the book. We're talking about the book. In the She's like, oh, no, he wants to leave. What am I going to do? Yes. And drugs him spur of the moment. Yeah. With blue pills mixed in, as I think, with some bourbon. Like, that wouldn't have changed the color. Yeah.
00:53:19
Speaker
So then we are taken back to the beginning scene of the book where he's, remember, he's strapped to a chair Her plan is that... So she... Okay, little.
00:53:34
Speaker
You're a meow in the background. Her plan is so weird. So weird. So she gets him drunk he and drugs him so that when he wakes up, she'll convince him that he got so drunk.
00:53:49
Speaker
And he told her to tie him to the chair after she told him that Cynthia and John were having an affair because at that time she had seen Cynthia and John like have like a close moment together. They went into the same building together. Yes. That's what she saw. Yeah. They walked into the same building together. Yeah. So which eventually we find out is not true. They were not having affair. because of this,
00:54:18
Speaker
It will convince him, convince Vlad to stay it be around her to proceed something with her. That's what she thinks will happen. But I kind of love how this plays out in the book where it's like he eventually finds out what she does and he kind of doesn't care and it gives her the ick.
00:54:42
Speaker
i know Okay, what gave her the ick was that he wanted to play like some weird ass professor and student role play. Yeah. And that made her feel old. And here she was with this younger man trying to yeah recapture her freaking youth or whatever. Mm-hmm.
00:55:00
Speaker
I think she had the ick a little bit before that too. Because he he was she was like, you're not like, because the whole time she was hoping in her fantasies that he would have some type of like wanting to have control yeah like, you know, get a little aggressive or something. And he kind of was just like, okay, I'm fine.
00:55:20
Speaker
Yeah. Whatever. There's also in the book where she describes when they're eating and he apparently holds his fork like overhand or something. And think that was the start.
00:55:31
Speaker
Yeah. There were so many moments when he did stuff that was like red flaggy, pink flaggy. And she was just like,
00:55:43
Speaker
He didn't mean like that. Or he didn't sign up like that. Like when she was like, I'll wear your wet clothes. Cause he had jumped in the lake or fallen in the lake or whatever. And she's like, where are your clothes? I'll, I'll wash them for you. And he was like, the jeans can't go in the dryer. Like, no, thank you. Oh, you don't have to do that. I'll get it. No, nothing like that. Just.
00:56:04
Speaker
And she was just like, oh, no big deal. Like, you know, she wrote off a lot of that kind of behavior. Right up until the point where she kind of couldn't anymore. And then she was like, okay, no, maybe not.
00:56:18
Speaker
Yeah. i think she wanted to be pursued. She kept fantasizing about being pursued. And the minute he accepted her as the pursuer, it wasn't fun anymore. Exactly. she became her husband.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yup. Yup. Exactly. So then they have sex and it's mediocre at best. In the book. Even in the show when she's like, you can finish. Yeah, yeah.
00:56:44
Speaker
So not living up to all the fantasies she had while writing her book. And she's like, okay. So this entire scenario, like we kind of indicated, similar in the show, ah big difference is that the drugging seems low-key.
00:57:01
Speaker
Like not exactly planned. little accidental where she is kind of planning it, but then she's like kind of being hesitant. And then he like goes for it and drinks a drink. And then she's like, oh my God, I can't believe he just did that.
00:57:15
Speaker
But like, I think the sex scene that eventually happens was way like more intense. Like it's like he's doing all the fantasy things. And then yeah like she's immediately having an orgasm. Like immediately, immediately at 58 years old.
00:57:34
Speaker
Hello. Immediately. Like two seconds in. It's like all of this was preparing for this moment. And then it was just like over and done. And then she's like, you can go in your bedroom now.
00:57:45
Speaker
I was like, I love that. mean, I would have said the same thing, honestly. I love that. I thought it was so funny. and he's like, oh, okay. But in the book, though, like it was like not passionate at all. Like not like that at all.
00:58:04
Speaker
But I liked it more in the book because it wasn't passionate. It was like so lame because so because it's just like all this buildup and it's like for nothing. Like it didn't live up to the fantasy. That's how I feel about this whole book. being Yeah.
00:58:24
Speaker
but So then in both the book and the show, John shows up because trial, the final verdict on the hearing came out. He comes to see her at the cabin because he's like been looking all over for her and finally finds her there. And Vlad is there and he knows they have been like hooking up. The way he reacts in the show cracked me up where he's like, good job.
00:58:47
Speaker
He's like, good job. The way he just reacts in the show in general when like Vlad is around. He's like, that's your new like, that's your new man. That's your new lover. Right. Like it was actually kind of funny the way he was reacting about it.
00:59:02
Speaker
But has like in the show. Kind of like a, I think, I guess in the book and the show, he kind of has the same reaction where he like wants to be with his wife after he's like feeling vulnerable after this whole situation happened.
00:59:20
Speaker
um But he reveals that he's not having an affair with Cynthia after they both thought that he was. And they were just riding together, but taking drugs and to do it, which sets Vlad off because ah he says Cynthia has a history with drugs as she's like an addict or something.
00:59:40
Speaker
And he like goes off on John. Then after like things settle, um they go to sleep and their cabin catches on fire. This is where I feel it gets very Rebecca. Okay.
00:59:54
Speaker
Which is actually referenced a lot in the book and the show. It is. It is. Which makes me laugh. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's our first ah book club pick. Also, episode one. Did you catch the title of episode one?
01:00:05
Speaker
What was the title? We Have Always Lived in the Castle. Oh, yes, I did. And I was like, oh, are they all going to be books? And it started and I was like, what am I watching? Yeah. Right. Yeah.
01:00:18
Speaker
yeah so It was just so out of left field, though, this fire. It was just like somebody had mentioned it being a twist. And I was just like, I don't think we can call that a twist. No. I don't think we can call this a twist. It was so far out of left field.
01:00:35
Speaker
it it it's right up there with like, and then lightning hit the, the, the cabin. Like what? Yeah. Yeah. What? I also think it was just horribly fricking convenient, honestly.
01:00:48
Speaker
And I think, you know, sometimes when an author doesn't know where to go with the story, they throw in a curve ball and that's, this wasn't a twist. was a curve ball. Yeah.
01:01:02
Speaker
And it
01:01:05
Speaker
conveniently wraps up everything because of this fire in the book it was like we don't know how to wrap this up in like a good way in a memorable way so we'll blow it up yeah blow it up fire it's so funny because they reference that in the story with the narrator's ending and john was like you don't like that ending ah to your book or whatever and it's like Well, apparently there was no idea for the ending of the story either. so Yeah. Yeah. And in the show, we have like a symbolic moment where she picks like saving her book over the guys to escape the fire. And like everyone gets out. Okay. That's the ending of the show. Like her running out with her book.
01:01:49
Speaker
that she wrote escape the fire. legal pads. Multiple legal pads. Yeah. And we got a Lizzo song in the background and she's like looking at us talking again. and I'm like, don't look at me. Like you got yourself in this mess. Like don't talk to me about it. Pretty much.
01:02:03
Speaker
And then in the book, completely chaotic. And like we have like chapters with like four sentences in it for every chapter or something like to make us like building the suspense or something. um And Vlad drags her and John out and they are severely burned in like recovery for a long time. Like third degree burns. Right. Her book is like destroyed in the fire and like, you know, John and her like in recovery for a really long time. And then they eventually get out and then they move back in together. And well, they get a settlement from the yes insurance company or whatever of the the manufacturer of the space heaters that apparently caused the fire. Yes. And so now they're rich. Yeah.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. they They literally get a happily ever after. yeah its exactly. I don't understand how that like, and this is where I, this is when I solidified my rating of this book.
01:03:03
Speaker
Because I was like, what? yeah This ending is kind of ridiculous. What? And apparently even even Vlad gets his happily ever after with Cynthia. Yeah. So like basically the end is like they've all written their books. Like John's written his epic poem and Cynthia's written her memoir. And Vlad has written his book about. Okay. Yeah.
01:03:26
Speaker
Yeah. His book is about him, a guy having an affair with a professor and she dies in a fire. I'm like a little close to home. Right. little close to home on that one. i feel like at least the show, although it was very heavy handed, we get her saving the novel as some sort of like, I choose myself. I'm going to choose to save me. You know,
01:03:54
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong. i Again, heavy handed. Especially with the Lizzo song in the background. But i liked that better than I liked this like weird ass happily ever after of the book.
01:04:10
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Personally. Yeah. It was... The Lizzo song is what killed me. I'm not going to lie. yeah i That ending was weird.
01:04:23
Speaker
It was bizarre. But I mean, now that we talked about the endings, let's talk about our final verdict between the book and the show. I think we might all possibly be different out here. I'm curious. Lindsay, what about you?
01:04:37
Speaker
yeah it's really funny that Crystal said she hated the ending of the book, but liked the ending of the show because I feel like I'm the opposite. I really did not like the ending of the show.
01:04:48
Speaker
i didn't like not knowing what happened. Like, so did Vlad and John actually escape? We don't know. Unreliable narrator. She says they did. Unreliable narrator in the book too, though.
01:05:02
Speaker
So we don't know that everybody actually got there happily ever after. It's true. It's true. She was writing a book. So maybe she felt like she had to put the HGA in there.
01:05:13
Speaker
i thought this whole thing was going to be like, and this is my book. Like, I thought that's what we were going to get But I think kind of was. That's why we got the HGAs. I don't know. Because it was called, the book is called Vladimir. So I thought it was like,
01:05:28
Speaker
At the end, I was like trying to do like a whole mastermind thing in my head that like this is we're like reading a book within a book type thing. think maybe I'm still on like my poor things situation. i need to get like out of that mindset. I don't know. yeah Where she says, Vlad wrote a book about having an affair with the professor and I wrote this book. Yeah, i like literally I was waiting for that moment. And I took my power back and I named it after him. Yes, that's honestly what I was waiting for. But go ahead, Lindsay, what were you going to say about your final verdict? um
01:06:06
Speaker
It's really tough. I think I'm going to go book on this one just because I don't like how much they changed the characters in the store in the series. And i I actually did like the build up in the book.
01:06:21
Speaker
With the fire and everything. Now, after the fire and and the, you know, her talking about them going to rehab to heal from the burns and stuff. I didn't care about anything after that. But like the buildup of the fire was really interesting.
01:06:35
Speaker
Okay. What about you, Crystal? I think we all know that one. I, okay, so here's the thing. I actually, i don't really like the show. Honestly.
01:06:45
Speaker
As an adaptation, I think it's kind of crap.
01:06:49
Speaker
As a standalone, if I had not read the book, I think I would have been more entertained by the show. And so I'm going to say show. if you're only going to do one, I would do the show.
01:07:01
Speaker
Yeah. What about you, Carrie? Come on. oh Definitely going book for sure. I did not like the show that much. Honestly, it was really rough to get through for me ah personally.
01:07:15
Speaker
so I talked to you guys about this. I think just randomly one day about how I've heard a lot of people really love the show, but of the people that have told me that they were men.
01:07:27
Speaker
And I see it now. I see it now. i I kind of get why men like this. Interesting. I don't understand men. God, I hate men.
01:07:40
Speaker
I've just, what's happened to me, you guys? I keep reading, you keep making me read these books and watch these shows where men are awful. we need to, come on, Pita. I actually have seen a lot of people, a lot of like book talk and stuff. A lot of ah women book talkers really love this show.
01:08:02
Speaker
So I think that's interesting. It actually has like a decent rating. Mm-hmm. right now. So I'm confused.
01:08:15
Speaker
I don't know why it has a decent rating, but i maybe that's just me. That's just my personal taste on that. But I just, like I said, I just did not like this show at all.
01:08:28
Speaker
I really didn't. I don't, like, I think right now I watched the His and Hers Netflix adaptation. and I feel like they can do so well with a Netflix adaptation, like something like that. So I'm like, we need to, that is the bar. The bar has been set there and I need...
01:08:47
Speaker
them to keep it there you know so that is the one that I really want them to stick to I really like that adaptation but let's if you guys question wait go ahead you haven't been watching our YouTube fuzz just showed us exactly where the bar was yeah right in front of Lindsay's face by the way yeah he is all up on that camera he's like I will show you man that you can like oh my sweet fuzz right here yeah love him so our question of the episode is what is a character that is unliked by many but you actually love or the opposite loved by many but you actually hate i'll have lindsey go first i'll be completely honest i was so stumped on this i kept trying to think of characters
01:09:41
Speaker
that I had read that I thought maybe people hated. i really don't know. i don't, I don't look a lot of these characters up. um So I'm not like, Oh, I know this person. Just everyone hates this person. So i was like, Eric Northman from the Sookie Stackhouse series. Nope. Everybody loves him. ah And I was like trying to think of somebody. So this isn't someone I necessarily love, but it's definitely someone that I can,
01:10:09
Speaker
that I sympathize with ah and and I can show empathy toward. I'm going to say Jack Torrance. From The Shining. Really? Interesting. I get it though. i get it though. yeah Especially after reading the book. Yeah.
01:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, Jack Torn's specifically in The Shining book, not the movie. No, he's just terrible in the movie. And that's why I i really disliked him in the movie. But he was really he was really trying to break like the generational curse. And he really did love his family. And he tried.
01:10:43
Speaker
hu So, yeah. Yeah. What about you, Crystal? I actually have one of each. Okay. characters that most people hate, but I loved um the Trunchbull from Matilda. i don't know if you guys have read the book or watched the movie, but she is very hateable, but I love her because she hated kids and I get it.
01:11:03
Speaker
freaking get it. Don't get me wrong. I love my kids, but y'all's kids suck. I'd be throwing them in the chokey. I don't care. i I really wouldn't actually. Kids aren't that bad, but I like, she's like super, super,
01:11:15
Speaker
almost relatable and enjoyable in that like, fuck it, it's all about me kind of way. i like that. um And then a character that everyone loves, but I actually hated um is from Glee, but Sue Sylvester.
01:11:29
Speaker
Everybody loved her. Cause like, she don't get me wrong. She was like, kind of like meant to be disliked and unenjoyable and abrasive, but in a lovable because I care about you sort of way. And I'm over here like, no, you're just a bitch.
01:11:43
Speaker
So. of all things you could have said, i did not see that one coming. Really? Well, I watched Glee because my kid liked it. so Yeah.
01:11:56
Speaker
I used to love Glee. I've never seen Glee. Oh my gosh. we gotta get on really now we need to get on that so i did both as well i feel like mine might be a little obvious but a character that is unlike by many but i actually not gonna say loved but like i actually like amy from gone girl Only because I think she's just like wild and like the craziest way. And she's such like an enjoyable character to read.
01:12:36
Speaker
Honestly, as far as unreliable narrators go, she's got to be the best. Yeah. I thought that was like perfect on theme as a reliable narrator for this. Yep. This is going to get me into some, some crap. Uh-oh.
01:12:49
Speaker
Character that is loved by many, but I actually don't like, I'm not going to say hate. Because I don't hate many Sarah J Maas characters.
01:13:01
Speaker
But I don't love... I'm scared. and scar should be If you admit one, I'll admit one. Okay. I am not a huge Bryson Hunt fan.
01:13:14
Speaker
I don't love... Like, I'm not a big Bryce and Hunt fan. Okay. That's my favorite. need you to clarify. do you just not like them as a couple?
01:13:27
Speaker
Or do you not like them as individuals? Both.
01:13:36
Speaker
their though Their actions... As a couple and individually, drive me bonkers. Drive me so bonkers. That's fair. i can I'm thinking of something in particular.
01:13:51
Speaker
i was going to say I only i't know i dislike them as a couple, but I'm thinking of something in particular that was an individual act by Bryce that I really didn't like. So i yeah, I can see that. Okay, but I got to clarify right now.
01:14:06
Speaker
How do you feel about Aelyn Ashriver Galathinius? I love her. How do you not like Bryce then? I don't understand. Okay. Because Aelyn's allowed to do whatever the hell she wants, but suddenly Bryce is like, has to be held accountable for her decisions in action.
01:14:23
Speaker
Because I have grown up with Aelyn. I have grown up since she was like a child. So because you know her backstory, you're unwilling to allow that Bryce might have also had a backstory and grown up?
01:14:37
Speaker
Well, because I've been with her with every step of the way as she's done this. So I know when I'm like, Aylan, stop doing that. Like you're pissing me off Stop doing that. So I feel much more connected. I just don't feel as connected with Bryce anymore. So if I had grown up with Bryce through all those moments, I probably wouldn't feel the same. Like I probably wouldn't be easily been like, I don't like this person. So you will give Aylan grace because you were there for the journey, but Bryce's journey was private. So she gets no grace.
01:15:09
Speaker
Sure. Why not? I didn't think that there was anything that you could say that would piss me off this much, but I am heated. oh Why not? Sure. Well, don't worry. I can make it worse. I'll make you both hate me. Oh, no. lord me ah So a character that everyone loves, and I don't hate this character. I do not hate this character. But I only like, kind of like, um, get ready, internet. Oh, no.
01:15:37
Speaker
Lucian. I don't, I don't. Say the appeal. I'm not in love with Lucian. Honestly, that's okay. yeah i get that. You guys were talking about how much you love Lucian. I'm like, okay. I love him. I love him. But like, I also kind of get why he's not like super appealing.
01:15:59
Speaker
He's just kind of mid. He's just kind of mid. He also just went along with Tamlin for so long. Right? Yeah. yeah honestly he mean i thinking of the right character yeah i'm thinking of the right character okay making sure i just think he's just not he's just like kind of there right now i feel like we don't really know a lot about him so it's like okay to like just feel like he's just and do you think that's going to come up in the next couple of books that will get some more illusion like backstory that would be nice probably hopefully
01:16:30
Speaker
Now that we've dropped um some pretty controversial opinions. I going to say, now that we spent 15 minutes on what was supposed to be three-minute conversation. Now that Chris was probably going to yell at me after this. um That's it for today's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to follow the podcast with the links in the show notes so you never miss what we're diving into next. Also, if you enjoy listening to audiobooks, Don't forget to check out that Libro FM link in the show notes to support the podcast. And we definitely want to hear from you.
01:17:03
Speaker
What are your thoughts on the new Vladimir show? Are you loving it? Questioning everything or somewhere in between? Leave us a comment and let's keep the conversation going. Until then, we will see you in the next chapter based on a book and hopefully all your fantasies with your fictional characters come to light.