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mental wellness tech in hotels offices residences by opo
99 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to episode 062 of the Green & Healthy Place podcast in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality today.
I’m your host, Matt Morley of Biofilico wellness real estate and in this episode I’m in Ibiza talking to Chris Connors, Founder and Creative Director of OPO, a wellness tech studio applying the principles of mindfulness to daily life via psycho-acoustics, neuro-aesthetics and awareness practices.
Belfast-born Chris is a psychotherapist, leadership coach and master in zen meditation. He has previously created projects for the likes of Prada, LVMH, Nike, Aesop, Kering and Net a Porter.
Amongst other things, we discuss everything from their nature-based mindfulness portals scattered around various mixed-used developments in London, their multi-sensory quiet room in a coworking office and the meditative moments they create during the guest journey for luxury resorts and hotels.
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to episode 62 of the Green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality today. I'm your host, Matt Morley, founder of Biophilico Wellness Real
Interview with Chris Connors
00:00:26
Speaker
Estate. And in this episode, I'm in Ibiza, talking to Chris Connors, the founder and creative director of OPPO, O-P-O, a wellness tech studio, applying the principles of mindfulness to daily life via psychoacoustics,
00:00:41
Speaker
neuroaesthetics and awareness practices. We'll get into what all of that means in a second. Belfast-born Chris is a psychotherapist by trade, he's a leadership coach, and it just so happens, a master in Zen meditation. He's previously created projects for the likes of Prada, LVMH, Nike, Esoc Caring and Nethoportic.
OPPO's Mindfulness Innovations
00:01:00
Speaker
But what we really want to talk about today is things like their nature-based mindfulness portals that are scattered around various mixed-use developments in London,
00:01:10
Speaker
their multi-sensory quiet room in a co-working office that was a particular interest for me, and of course the meditative moments that they are brought in to create for guest journeys for a number of luxury resort and hotel brands. This is a reflection, I think, of how Wellness Tech has started to marry both a social, let's say ESG component with giving back to the community, but also
00:01:41
Speaker
focusing on individual mental wellbeing. So I'll leave it to Chris to talk in more detail. Chris, this has been a little welcoming. Really great to have you on the show and I'm excited to hear more about Oppo. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm very happy to be here. So I wanted to start with a bit of context around
00:02:08
Speaker
What you saw as the initial opportunity around setting this business up, there's a lot of movement in the space right now, but clearly you felt there was a combination of talent and skill and potentially funding and a gap in the market that you wanted to focus on and go at. So give us a little bit of context there. Sure, of course.
Chris's Mindfulness Journey
00:02:29
Speaker
Well, first of all, I mean, I've been in this in the world of mindfulness for 23 years now. I started
00:02:37
Speaker
training in Japan with many different monasteries with monks and had spent many months on retreat there and started to really understand deeply what was going on. You might hear from my accent, I actually come from Belfast in Northern Ireland and grew up in a very adverse place and found that meditation had a very strong
00:03:04
Speaker
impact on my mental health at that time. And of course, I didn't have any science to support anything that was going on. It was actually a very intuitive experience. So at that point, I realized what a strong benefit it was having for me. And fast forward into, I guess, 2014, 2014, 15, I started to see this sort of emerging trend coming through.
Emerging Trends in Mindfulness
00:03:31
Speaker
that the work that I had been doing, which actually had been very, let's call it secretive or just very discreet, people didn't talk about things like mindfulness and sound healing and these kind of words were certainly banished to sort of very, very far away places. But around 2014, I started to I actually created a little website called modernconscious.com, which caught the eye of a lot of trans experts.
00:03:55
Speaker
And it was really about how you could bring meditation into daily life through design or objects or spaces. And in that early time, there was a realization that people were starting to warm more and more to this work. And I was teaching it a lot. And I noticed a lot of a younger generation were doing a lot more research on meditation, as were
00:04:22
Speaker
some of the great scientific institutes like in Harvard and places like that, which were actually doing a lot of tests and trials.
Founding of OPPO
00:04:31
Speaker
So for me, that was the early spot that actually there was going to be a kind of a really big movement in this field. And then, you know, I started to see some apps come through very early days, mindful apps, and lo and behold, actually,
00:04:50
Speaker
Headspace and Absal Khan started to really push out into the world. And as you know, they have really taken a huge area of the market. And what I wanted to do was really look at how we could create something through OPPO, which wasn't just really about learning to do this work, but it was actually more about the applied aspects of this work.
OPPO's Business Model
00:05:18
Speaker
And which means, you know, how can things like meditation come into daily life? And what would that mean from a daily habitual point of view or spaces that you might interact with or behaviors that you might have? So I really spotted it at that early time. And we've been building it now for the past five years from that.
00:05:37
Speaker
So did you set up with a business to business vision of, partly as a way to distinguish from, say, the headspaces of the world have gone heavily down the B2C's, they've really gone for the mass market, first dipping of the toe into the world of mindfulness and meditation. Did you think, okay, well, it's never to read, there's an opportunity then to slice that market and find a niche for yourself within that?
00:06:03
Speaker
Hmm. It's sort of it's a mixed view of that really. It's, you know, I've been a coach, a leadership coach in many businesses, primarily in the luxury world, and often in the design world as well. And through that, of course, I started to see the ailments of organizations and organizational behavior, and was very
00:06:22
Speaker
interested in actually what I could do to help that from a coaching perspective, but then of course from learning and development perspective, and I saw OPPO could really help with those functions. The way we've approached it as a business is that we are working to build blocks through the B2B model, let's say. Our end goal is that actually anyone in the consumer or public domain can use OPPO, and we want our communities
00:06:49
Speaker
our business communities to support us as a social enterprise, to create more city, certainly more urban wide portals, which I'm sure we'll talk about, and initiatives that actually reach to a much wider public. And that's really our game. But we want to work through the channels of B2B and business communities.
The OPPO App and Technology
00:07:11
Speaker
Okay, so I've had the app on my phone now for a month and a half. And yeah, I kind of, you know, played around with it, tested it out a little bit. The portals bit. Let's come back to the social enterprise element. But the portals, so they seem to be in some way connected to places
00:07:31
Speaker
Yes. Geographies, but at the same time, obviously, I don't need to be in that specific location in order to access the content. So how do you how do your portals fit into the overall context of the business? And then how is it that you end up working with, say, that mixed use real estate developers like King's Cross and Greenwich Peninsula in London to develop those portals? How does that fit?
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, well, actually, the portals came from our first projects, which actually were spaces. We had created two spaces in central London. One was in Shoreditch, and the other one was in King's Cross during at the Cool Drops Yard, which is the big King's Cross development there. We worked with Argent, who are, of course, fantastic developers, very visionary.
00:08:18
Speaker
And we made two very interesting spaces that attracted a lot of attention in terms of what we were offering. They were automated spaces. People could go in and have 15, 20 minute experiences. And from that, exactly when I was in King's Cross, I kind of wanted to find out what could we do that would actually not just be an indoor thing. What could we do for people during summer or during the outdoor times where you could really wander around the city
00:08:46
Speaker
and stop at these portals and have some kind of experience that equivalent to what we were having indoors at these spaces. And so I was wanting to, I looked at this as a kind of blended experience almost between what you're really sitting looking at versus actually what are the virtual inputs going on and that blended experience actually creates the portal itself.
00:09:10
Speaker
It's a very simple experience, actually, in the end. Basically, the app will guide you to a park bench or a river view, or some space in the city and beyond. But once you're there, the app will then unlock a guided mindful practice based on the view that you have. So I guide you with the exact view of things that are in front of you. And that
00:09:35
Speaker
presencing experience gives a very optimal, neurological, quite phenomenal experience for our system and floods us with different hormonal inputs created from neuroplasticity, which is of course the great aim of any meditative or sound practice. The portals for me have been an absolutely brilliant guide for us really. We want to plant as many as we can around as many cities.
00:10:04
Speaker
And we're finding as people use them, they're getting those true kind of stillness moments in the noise. And that's what I call it stillness in the noise, which is actually the real core aspect of what meditation really is. It's not just about getting calm and being away from everything. It's actually about how can I be in it and be completely with it, but also find a deeper stillness and connection at the same time, which is a very urban experience, of course.
00:10:30
Speaker
And so if I may ask, how does that is that a commercial relationship, then if there's another developer or a location, a place or a hotel that may want to develop or likes the idea of having one of the portals, is that then they would sort of almost contract you or that's how do you sort of expand the network? Well, so yeah, so the portals are basically they're kind of a combination of you might call it well being and wayfinding. The wayfinding aspect
00:10:58
Speaker
is really helpful, of course, for developers. They want people to dwell and sit and enjoy their spaces. And OPA was a perfect instrument to
Integration with Hospitality
00:11:06
Speaker
do that. So we've done that along the tide, which is the kind of high line of London. I don't know if you've heard about it in Greenwich Peninsula. We built OPA portals all the way along the walking area so people could dwell and enjoy whether there are certain views. Some of them are natural kind of
00:11:23
Speaker
river fuse or some of them are actually just about sitting with graphics of buildings which are actually become fascinating. So they really create this much more multi-dimensional experience of the space itself and of course for a developer that's always good news and you're also building in some good well-being mandates as well which of course we have to. Makes sense and then with the hotel groups I was interested to see you know a lot of the times when I'm
00:11:49
Speaker
If I'm working with a hotel group, then I'm more focused on the physical spaces that we're able to create, but whenever you're creating these spaces, you always need to have a plan and an idea of how they're going to be used.
00:12:01
Speaker
And so it's quite hard for a hotelier or during a hotel stay to get into the mental wellness space. I think typically perhaps a residential environment where you have just a longer timeframe involved where you're able to make an impact. But that's not to say it's something small, perhaps of a shorter duration can't still contribute to the guest journey. So as I saw that you work with hotel groups, I was trying to sort of get into that space and understand more
00:12:27
Speaker
I saw you work with that man, for example, one of the world's leading luxury groups, or you've done something with them. So typically, how do you integrate into the branded customer journey at a hotel or resort? Well, we started with the room first, we realized that there's an opportunity to bring more
00:12:48
Speaker
360 wellness into the room itself. That's typically where people spend, we don't know exact amounts of time, but they definitely feel that that's their base, let's call it. And within that, we've built content that people can upload through QR code on screen or some method from reception.
00:13:08
Speaker
where we're building menus that are really helping people while they're in the room. So especially things like sleep, stress, anxiety. We've been building sleep programs. These are the times when you can use them. Sleep programs aren't so much use in the spa. So we really went in to look at how can we create an augmented experience in the room based on that. And then from there, we sort of worked out
00:13:37
Speaker
to the hotel building and sort of spa facility. And so we are currently working with quite a few really good hotels around treatments, for example, sound and some specific relaxation treatments. We're doing a very specific sleep treatment as well in certain spas. So we extend out into the spa, but also then we build portals. So, of course, we can do things like we have a hotel we work with in Santorini where
00:14:05
Speaker
reception can send their guests out for a sunrise guided meditation in the morning and the app will take you to the rocks and sit with the sunrise and I guide you at that moment straight from your room. So we're creating these also these sort of elevated experiences in and around the hotel as well. So there's kind of content and then there's sort of portal creation all the way around the hotel as much as they want to constellate that. And that's really our approach.
00:14:33
Speaker
And we also do then a few products that help. We have one called a sonic postcard, which is something that the hotel can send to guests prior to their stay. So something to help them along the way, whether it's a song journey for the for the plane, the plane ride or for, you know, transport to the destination.
00:14:54
Speaker
that we feel the mapping can send signs from the island or from the city or wherever they operate from. And then we can do a sonic postcard at the end of the journey. So the whole idea is we can also help extend and connect with the customer journey all the way along and elevate to some degree as well.
00:15:14
Speaker
Those QR codes dotted around a building, that strikes me as quite an interesting intervention. Does that require then a user, a resident, a guest to have the app on their phone or is the QR code itself the access to the content? Yeah, we make web app content. We have different content, private content for them. That's not on the app itself. We do have a private area on our app for
00:15:41
Speaker
for our guests as well or for our partners that their guests then can use the app in the private area. But the whole point then with QR or any form of technology is that we use web app content and they work from there and it's really sort of a quick upload. There's no signing. It's a very quick use. And that's the whole point of it, really. Yeah. Reducing those barriers to actually get into the experience bit, which is what matters. Yes. And also a lot of hotels are trying to develop their own apps and
00:16:11
Speaker
So we tend to want to stay as flexible as possible with them in terms of the way we have content use.
Workplace Wellness Initiatives
00:16:19
Speaker
And QRs are one way, links from reception or another, or whatever feels right for the hotel, because aesthetically not everybody loves a QR code. So we have other many lovely, elegant technologies. But unfortunately, a lot of people still aren't ready to use them, especially when it comes to image recognition and things like that.
00:16:40
Speaker
you know, before the pandemic, I think the QR code was probably not even used so much. So we have a tool that we want to make easy to people to use. Hotels are always interesting clients, I find that they're always keen to be on the forefront and to distinguish themselves, differentiate themselves. But ultimately, it's a relatively short stay, perhaps, you know, a week or two at most. But when you're working with, say, either
00:17:05
Speaker
a residential or an office or workplace client, I'm sure that in a way you're able to consider a more longer term or at least medium term relationship, right, where something could be used repeatedly. And as we all know, it is the repetition of these acts that the accumulatively starts to have a real impact. So the workplace wellness bit seems to me like the real crux of this that I can imagine, especially with what's happening now in terms of the return to work,
00:17:34
Speaker
re-questioning the value of offices and sort of on the flip side for employers, adding extra value to the office experience to encourage people back in and give them a sense of purpose in the office and also helping them with their own management or mental health stresses, concerns. So what are you up to in that space and how have you perhaps a couple of examples of work that you've done in the past with workplaces or co-working offices? Yes, sir. I mean,
00:18:03
Speaker
just to come to that, you know, the office is a new, it's a new place, you know, after the pandemic. And I think, as you say, businesses are desperate to find out ways to help people retain people and also ensure that they are really offering and taking care of their people. From Opo's point of view, we are
00:18:23
Speaker
we're really focused on what you've just been saying. If someone is repeatedly using a space, then repetition and habit and habit creation and habit formation is a big part of what we offer for our business partners. And we're very focused actually on the new and very strong development of science around circadian biology. And that's become a big part for us. You know, OPPO is very much about
00:18:48
Speaker
our natural self in the natural world around us. And it's about that connection point. And then when I say our natural self, we, you know, we have a 24 o'clock that basically guides everything we do. And we don't really, that is just the nature of and the law of nature itself. So what we're doing, specifically, we're working now with a global brand called Daviness, maybe you're aware of their global beauty brand, we've just run a wonderful first step
00:19:18
Speaker
initiative for them. And our OPPO initiative in business is called Unplug. And it's all about really showing how our brain does not operate as sort of in some kind of homogeneous state the whole way through the day. That's a very old school idea of the way we work in an office is that our brain is the same state from 9am to it is at 4, 5pm. And
00:19:42
Speaker
Our focus is how can we help influence and create specific points along a journey of your day, which actually help balance or restore brain state and brain health in order to really optimize your productivity, but also to help align to your circadian rhythm. And by doing that, creates great hormonal benefits, just makes you happier at work, makes you just more focused on what and where you might need to do something at what point.
00:20:10
Speaker
And so we're in that program right now and it's coming off really well. We're getting really good response. And that's, as you said, that's good. We have an opportunity there because we obviously have a long term relationship there to be able to do something impactful and effective.
00:20:26
Speaker
which is of course something we wish to keep going with. And is that always then sound-based interventions or is there a component of sound and visuals or going to a specific location within the office environment?
Design and Nature in Wellness
00:20:39
Speaker
How do you sort of connect with the physicality of the space, if at all?
00:20:44
Speaker
It depends really on the business and their willingness to work with space and design. We are now talking to a few businesses who really want to look at the design of their office and how
00:20:59
Speaker
daily habits and habit change can actually affect design because it's never really been thought through, except maybe to go to the kettle for a cup of tea or coffee. That's basically the habit of the office, you know, desk and desk and coffee. But currently, the way we offer it is it's more audio and helping people then with specific habits through the day that involve physical, mental and emotional tasks.
00:21:25
Speaker
But a lot of that is about being outdoors. It's about sort of light and focus of light in the eyes, different aspects that involve nature really as the sort of, I guess, as much as you can do it, of course, nature as the big player here for supporting the office space. And within the office space, we're not heavy in design, let's say, but that's something I would like to get more and more involved with.
00:21:52
Speaker
I saw the, I think like a meditation room that you created with the office group in London, where yeah, there was a beautiful sort of orb shape or spherical light in what was effectively a darkened little
Meditation Rooms in Offices
00:22:08
Speaker
space. But it just struck me as interesting that they'd dedicated a specific area for that purpose. So was that, how did that
00:22:17
Speaker
run on a cycle? Or was it constantly open and that was just the case of someone dropping in at any time? Or was it sort of every 20 minutes a new meditation began? How do you operate that in terms of the facility itself? Yeah, well, this particular one we worked, it was a more passive space, let's say, that being that we worked with the Architects Universal Design Studio, a really brilliant architecture practice. And we worked on design from scratch of that space. So it was very
00:22:47
Speaker
much about bringing down certain stimuli and then upping others, different kind of sensory elevations and deprivations. So it looks dark and there's a lot of light focus. It was passive, but within there, we had created basically what we call a circadian soundtrack. So there was a track that would be playing in there. The room was soundproofed completely.
00:23:15
Speaker
which basically looked at how sand maps to your circadian biology. So when you went in, there would be a certain kind of stimulation that would be beneficial for your brain at that certain time of day. So you could go in and sit there and just absorb sand. And then there was a color, kind of color therapy light, which was working on certain activations of the eyes and very much around
00:23:41
Speaker
what certain colours do at certain times of the day as well. That was moving and changing. So that one particularly was sort of a more passive drop in. We had a lot, it's still open and we have a very good uptake with that. You know, a lot of time in the office, it's also about what you don't do rather than what you are doing. And this was a real place to kind of unmind, unwork, unfocus in a way, and really take yourself and let your brain just have a real rest.
00:24:10
Speaker
because your brain is not resting if you're jumping onto Instagram from some kind of working email. And the space is really doing a lot of good work for you for that. So it's a real drop in space. I've done a number of these spaces that are variably called recharge rooms or quiet rooms for corporate office environments, often full of biophilia. And the question always comes up around, you know,
00:24:35
Speaker
How active or passive should it be? Should there be an element of content that's fed into this space or is it in fact about disconnecting and having no screens at all?
Guided Wellness Spaces
00:24:45
Speaker
Often we end up removing any screens. I think now the content has got to the point or the availability of such high grade content has reached the stage where I'm confident in saying, look, I think
00:24:56
Speaker
we can design a space that includes a feature screen, optional to have it on or off, but then perhaps tapped into an app such as yours that just is basically there to provide and guide. Because I think not everyone necessarily knows how to be in that space, right? You have to coach them in being. You know, the thing is that, you know, so here's the thing at a very deep level,
00:25:23
Speaker
To produce, to bring people into stillness, which is kind of that sort of environment, can often be very, it can be torture for many people. It can be actually very challenging for people to sit in stillness. You know, you see people coming here to Ibiza, they're challenged by nature. It's not just suddenly you relax, you know.
00:25:44
Speaker
In fact, it can often highlight what's not going on, you know, if you, you can sort of see where your mind is at, and that can for a lot of people be quite, quite, quite a thing. And I suppose, you know, we have a lot of attention deficit with attention issues. You ask someone to go and look at a sunset, they might say, Oh, that's lovely, and take a picture of it and then walk away. It's not that they're absorbing all the benefits of light and sitting there really deeply connecting necessarily to their circadian rhythm, you know. So
00:26:14
Speaker
I really advocate guidance. And that is only because I think people really need that support to help them divert their attention. It's not about teaching them how to be a good meditator, how to hold your attention on something because that is being lost on us. And that for me is actually some of our biggest mental health issues is where our attention is going and where we're putting it.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think it answers a very real and practical point, which is you can create this space and set aside, dedicate a room within a building. Yes. You have to fill it with purpose to get maximum value from it. Otherwise it can just be used in other ways and not deliver. And that's what the office group had before we did this space. You know, they were doing little quiet rooms and little sort of contemplation rooms and, you know, frankly,
00:27:07
Speaker
They were cleaning up the rooms every day because people were going in and just eating food or, you know, all sorts of things that I won't say on the screen. But, you know, it's this is what was really happening. And, you know, but if you go into a space and our space and Notting Hill, which you must try sometime if you're in London, you know, you walk in and the first thing they ask you to do is remove your remove your shoes. There's a there's a whole guidance and a sort of journey all the way into your seat. It's not just that you walk in and use it and
00:27:36
Speaker
people dropping in to follow guidance is also them being able to give up responsibility for a minute, which actually in business is very, very useful, if you trust it, of course.
Tailoring Mindfulness Content
00:27:47
Speaker
And so I'm obviously as a facilitator, that's what I'm that's what I'm looking for. So people.
00:27:52
Speaker
trust and then drop into something that I know is good for them. Yeah, I'm with you. I completely agree. And I just wondered then if you could talk to perhaps the slight differences and how you have to tweak the content according to whether it's, for example, co-living or residential environment or a hotel guest that's just passing through or someone who's at work. Do you
00:28:15
Speaker
Do you take it as mental wellbeing and the practices that you advocate for are applicable to all of these circumstances? Or do you end up twisting the content just a little bit according to each audience? I wonder how much stays as sort of repeat content and how much is adapted to the specifics of each case. Yeah, I mean, they are, they are different. You know, in the hotel, we're really looking at
00:28:42
Speaker
sort of elevation, helping people relax and go deeper into that sort of dropping the nervous system going down into wellbeing in a sort of easy and quick way. Whereas, of course, in the office space, we're working with people and their behaviours and they become, you know, they become manifest just by daily life. And so there's a different kind of programming that wants to be an offer.
00:29:12
Speaker
In the end, though, you know, a mindful life is a mindful life, whether it's for, you know, a month or for 10 minutes. And that's really what we're advocating. We're advocating that you can find some sort of sense of self, sense of centering and being present and actually, in that moment,
00:29:30
Speaker
It doesn't matter if you've got 10 minutes of that or 10 years of that. I wish that you could have 10 years of that. So in the essence of our work, it's really similar in the essence of it, but how we apply it, of course, is different because, of course, usage is different and take-ups different. Makes sense.
00:29:46
Speaker
You mentioned a little earlier on the idea of being, well, the concept of social enterprise and your societal angle on what you do.
Social Enterprise and Accessibility
00:29:57
Speaker
I was interested to understand a bit more about that. It was obviously a decision you took up front as a business strategy and you've baked that into your business model. So how does that play out? Yes. Well, I mean, it's always been something for me that has
00:30:13
Speaker
You know, I really wanted to create some kind of circularity in my business. It wasn't just looking at upward trajectories and curves on that level. It's important, of course, a business can grow and flourish. So I'm really into that. But I had always felt that, you know, this work is not only about, you know, just about sort of the wellness industry, you know, my work as a service as well. And as part of that service, I wish that it can access as many people as possible.
00:30:42
Speaker
And I've been doing this long enough to know that, you know, not everybody wants to engage with that, but I would like them there to be very inspiring and easy ways for people to access. So as part of our social enterprise, our portal creation, we have, we wish to create more and more of these accessible places and spaces for people in and around the city. And actually our vision for that is, is, you know, ambitious.
00:31:10
Speaker
But we would love to be able to work with a certain amount of cities. And actually our dream is to work with mayors of cities or the smart city concepts where we can plug our portals into those and actually drive demand in a much bigger way for people to access them. And that fulfills our social mission. And so if it's a 65-year-old lady in the middle of Greenwich who tried our portal for the first time and had never heard of meditation or any of that thing,
00:31:37
Speaker
But actually I saw her and watched her for a few days getting benefits from that. And they're the things that make me feel like I've achieved success in this work.
00:31:46
Speaker
So it's giving back, but in a sense, without asking anything in return, it's you're purely giving, you often don't know who those people are, I guess, unless there's sort of some interconnection or the sort of the geo locator or what have you, but effectively, you never, you never see them.
Social Impact and Global Vision
00:32:02
Speaker
But you know, they're there. And you don't ask anything in return, you're just giving them this experience. And yeah, we, we would like that to keep happening. And we ask all of our partners to
00:32:13
Speaker
help co fund those for with us. So we have a we have a fund that we always bring into our model to help create more and more portals. That's part of the creation. It's a bit like tree planting, you know, or someone said our portals are a little bit like headspace meets Pokemon, which I thought was quite funny. Like, you know, in a way, we just would like those to be as populated as they can. So, you know, people can go to their favorite place and just sit and have those 10 minutes and
00:32:43
Speaker
You know, like I said, sometimes those 10 minutes in a portal are very different to 10 minutes just sitting on a bench worrying about your life. That's the difference. I like it. Let's end on that one. I think it's a good point to end on. So if people are interested in following along, finding out more, obviously the website, we'll link to that in the show notes. What about social media? What are your preferred channels? Yeah, opo.app is our social media. You can find us on there.
00:33:10
Speaker
And also on my own Instagram, I'm always connecting about it as well. That's at Christopher Conners. But generally our website will have updates as well. They can sign up for our newsletter. Our newsletter is very popular and we love writing them. So yeah, people want to sign up. They can get it on the website. Great. Well, listen, thanks for your time. It's been fun. Not at all. It's been great talking to you, Matt. Thank you. Take care. Bye.